German State Plans To Migrate 13,000 Workstations From Linux to Windows (zdnet.com)

An anonymous reader quotes ZDNet: The German state of Lower Saxony is set to follow Munich in migrating thousands of official computers away from Linux to Microsoft's Windows. As initially reported by Heise, the state's tax authority has 13,000 workstations running OpenSuse -- which it adopted in 2006 in a well-received migration from Solaris -- that it now wants to migrate to a "current version" of Windows, presumably Windows 10.

The authority reasons that many of its field workers and telephone support services already use Windows, so standardisation makes sense. An upgrade of some kind would in any case be necessary soon, as the PCs are running OpenSuse versions 12.2 and 13.2, neither of which is supported anymore.

According to the Lower Saxony's draft budget, €5.9m is set aside for the migration in the coming year, with a further €7m annually over the following years; it's not yet clear how many years the migration would take... Munich's shift away from LiMux -- the city's own Ubuntu-based distribution -- is expected to cost more than €50m overall, involving the deployment of around 29,000 Windows-based computers.

Comments

No problem

[TimothyHollins]

This should be easy. The German state has become quite the expert on migration as of late. Let's just hope no-one gets raped in the process.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You are scheiÃYe

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Ubuntu sounds right for them!

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

microsoft is obviously funding this "migration".

next week, the uk will bribe germany to 'migrate' away from the e.u.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not help economic migrants return to their own countries rather than flooding your already near-bankrupt welfare states? Be a good sociologist and ask yourself this questions: Which are the most stable- homogenous societies or heterogenous societies? It has nothing to do with melanin- people of different cultures have wildly different conceptions of justice, prejudices, manners, and basic assumptions about life when compared the West. The only thing open borders will accomplish is getting a lot of people on both sides killed.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

American history proves you wrong. Every country should have a Statue of Liberty. Melting pots make the best societies.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

But... What about ME????

Re: No problem

[fizzer06]

I hope you are talking about legal immigration.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude don't take the bait. Internet comments are as irrelevant as they were in 93.

only TIMECUBE is real educated stupid!

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

American history is full of immigrants that had to pass through an immigration system. Many were turned away. It only became a problem after liberal Democrats trashed that system post-WWII and stopped enforcing the borders.

And the Statue of Liberty was not intended as a monument to immigration, no matter how badly people want to retcon it after someone plastered a poem on its base years later.

Re:No problem

[NeoTubNinja]

And yet, the US still has a higher incident of rape per person. It's OK to leave your house once in awhile to make sure the world is still in one piece, despite whatever Fox might claim.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The glorious People's Republic of China's annexation of Hong Kong way ahead of 2047 will be glorious.

Ghx26afg7i04F^Â¥

The PLA

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

tIMECUBE is REAL

Your Gods are false

educated stupid!

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Not with the racist example of the Quota Act to examine, or the partisan Alien and Naturalization act, or the other various examples like trying to end the lottery system that exists to avoid continued prejudice in the law.

Sorry, but the concept of restrictive abusive bigotry through the auspices of the law discredits it in general.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Your gay

Re: No problem

[Zoxed]

Bad taste

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Your muh whattabout is retarded.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not help economic migrants return to their own countries ?

That's exactly what Germany is doing. There is no asylum for economic migrants. Most refugees are not economic migrants, though, they come from Syria and Afghanistan, both of which are war-torn countries. Nevertheless, if you let people drown in the sea, then you're a monster, not a human being.

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're assuming that the OP is a USAian? Maybe you should take your head from your ass... or is it too hard not to scream your bigotry even when it has no place in the conversation.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

A monster is somebody who goes out of his way to cause suffering. Not doing anything is simply indifference, which does not make one a monster. Stop imposing your definition of morality on the rest of us.

People die every day. What are you doing to prevent it, you monster?

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

He asked what about him, not what about his gay...

Re: No problem

[MightyMartian]

How is indifference any different. If the end result is the same, that people fleeing catastrophe drown, does it matter whether it was an active effort to drown them, are just callousness and apathy that allows it to happen? You either make an active moral choice or you invoke indifference, and make the moral choice by default. A drowning man doesn't much care whether someone in the lifeboat is shoving his head under water, or is just sitting watching him die.

And let's remember here that countries like Syria and Iraq are the creations of the Great Powers. They ignored any kind of tribal or ethnic divisions, or even the divisions of convenience of the Ottoman Empire. They just simply took maps, carved out protectorates and dependencies, and then, after a few years, when they could no longer sustain their empires or keep a lid on the chaos they'd bottled up, they just walked away. So I'd say, considering the Great Powers in question were, by and large, France and the UK, who decided from the 18th and 20th centuries that the Mediterranean was their lake (and really, Britain still holding Gibraltar indicates that the long-term goal of "managing" the Mediterranean is still in the national interest) have, so far as I can see, a significant debt to the citizens of these countries. To just decide, after decades of chaos (much of it unleashed by another Great Power, the United States, botch occupation of Iraq), that it isn't their problem any more is a moral choice.

Re: No problem

[Hognoxious]

But not as sheiße as Slashdot's handling of anything outside ISO-8859-1.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

American history proves that any mongrel society is doomed to failure. Europe == civilization, US == incivility. The evidence is undeniable: all the greatest scientists, artists and thinkers the US ever had came from Europe. Where is the african Galileo? Nowhere. Where is the asian Beethoven? Nowhere. Europe is where civilization reached its highest development and Europe, united from the Atlantic to the Urals, will alone decide the fates of the world, as the great De Gaulle said. Longue vie a l'Europe victorieuse!

Re: No problem

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Acknowledging that it has almost nothing whatsoever to do with some German region changing from GNU/Linux to MS Windows, I just have to say, I am so sick of the "legal" argument. Maybe you were trying to be funny, but the "law" you were alluding to is creating human misery on par with crop failure, floods, fires, and rocks hurtling in from space and making everything all dead and explodey, so I simply cannot help but respond.

"Respect our laws," they say. REALLY? Would YOU respect a "law" if the people passed one making it illegal for you to breathe? Let us suppose they passed such a law. You did NOTHING whatsoever to harm anyone else and occasion this, your mere PRESENCE brought it about. They decided they didn't like you. If they, as a result, decided that you personally, fizzer06 , were not allowed to breathe anymore, not because you did anything wrong, not because you harmed anyone else, or even that you're an actual threat to someone, but because you are adjudged inherently inferior because of which side of an imaginary line on the ground your mother pushed you, headfirst, out of her vagina on, YOU are not allowed to breathe anymore, would you do it? Would you comply? According to the "LAW," you should just hold your breath, turn blue, and fucking die. Tell me, truly, would you "respect" such a bullshit "law"? Would you just hold your breath because someone doesn't like what you look like, your accent perhaps, or thinks you pray the wrong way, to the wrong version of an imaginary character out of a fucking book, or to the right one but in the wrong language... or perhaps because they want to preserve their "culture," as if it's somehow better, more worthy than the one where you came from, for their FUCKING convenience and peace of mind, would you die?

The "LAW" that says someone isn't good enough to be a German just because he was born in Turkey, or isn't good enough to be a Frenchman because he was born in Chad, or isn't somehow worthy of being an American because his mother's vagina hovered over a piece of ground in Guatemala when he was pushed out of it, is worth about the same as the "LAW" that said that if a person was accused of being a runaway slave, even in a free-state that had outlawed slavery, that any local authority must assist a person claiming ownership over that slave, and help return him or her with that person to a shit-hole state that still allows people to own other people and frankly, fuck 100% of that shit.

Fuck nativism, fuck racism... we are all brothers and sisters, and the "LAW" you're referring to, with which immigrants are either IN, or OUT of compliance, is racist, nativist bullshit. America in particular is the one country on Earth where that shit, (given America's origins, founding, constitution, etc.,) really shouldn't fly, where such laws are particularly disgusting and morally reprehensible. OF ALL countries, if America were truly to subscribe to the idea that any person whose parents were here earlier was allowed to decide who else COULD and COULD NOT be in the country based on arriving later, then that would give to the descendants of the Native Americans who were here before the first European settlers arrived, (immigrants and refugees from "shit-hole countries" where people were being persecuted for their religion or starving due to famine, not to put too fine a goddamned point on it, like England, Ireland, Germany, etc.,) the right to kick literally EVERYONE who wasn't "legal," in compliance with THEIR laws, (if they were prescient enough to think to make such a law before 1492 C.E.,) and THEIR descendants OUT. Somehow, however, when the US Senate and House of so-called "Representatives" (that's a laugh,) decide on how many people to "let in," I very much doubt anyone is invited from one of the reservations to weigh in on how many refugees that America in particular helped create, America would let in.

Of course, many countries actually have such a situation, actually have natives to a region

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice comment you wrote. I wonder where writing was first invented (clue: not Europe or the US). Do you still use roman numbers, too?

That you cannot answer those questions just means you are an ignorant, and not that no answer exists.

No, I won't do the homework for you.

Re: No problem

[Hognoxious]

people fleeing catastrophe

Some of them are. A lot of them clearly aren't. I mean, if I can't find a job in Barnsley can I just fuck off to London and someone will put me up? Don't get me wrong, Barnsley can be a bit rough but it's not quite a war zone.

Are you sleeping on the couch so one can have your bed?

Britain still holding Gibraltar indicates that the long-term goal of "managing" the Mediterranean is still in the national interest

Britain has had Gibraltar longer than two of the most populous states in Europe have existed, and what's more we won it fair and square. But if we're playing the reset game, can we have Aquitaine, Denmark and Hanover back? Oh, and that bit between Canada and Mexico?

Going back to your thing about great powers ignoring ethnic divisions, Czechoslovakia is another example of that. And yet the Czechs & Slovaks went their separate ways without even a pub brawl.

What's stopping other ex-colonies from going "OK, you have this bit and we'll have that bit. Let's fix a date for a football game"?

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I vote for politicians who don't let people die. Pretty easy, unless you're a monster.

Re: No problem

[Hognoxious]

The US did tend towards "fit in or fuck off". How many second generation immigrants speak the old language properly? How many third generation ones speak it at all?

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The US is the only reason Europe hasn't plunged into another eastern hemisphere war of empires. If the US hadn't been sitting on top of Europe WW3 would have started right after they finished repairing the damage done in WW2 and Russia would have been into the mix as well. If the brutality and deaths unleashed during WW1 didn't keep Europe from embarking on WW2 there needed to be a strong enough external party to keep the Europeans from warring on one anther like they did gleefully for the last 2000 years.

Re: No problem

[admin7087]

Although I understand your anger, your rant in this off-topic threat is a bit misleading. Germany has actually taken the refugees that it has taken because of the law, more specifically because of Article 16a of the German Constitution, the German Asylum Act, the Geneva Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951 signed by Germany and many other countries, and Article 78 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union signed by every member state of the European Union. In addition to that, there are of course also basic humanitarian principles, as you lay out so vividly.

Just wanted to point that out, as some of the people who let others drown in the Mediterranean Sea or that refugees should be shot at borders erroneously think they have some kind of "law" on their side. What they propose is illegal on even more levels than the above ones. There are also continuing blatant violations of International Maritime Law such as serious crimes committed by the Libyan Coast Guard who literally kill people with the tacit approval of many European governments.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Legal immigratiion FROM EUROPE is what made the US great.

Re: No problem

[MightyMartian]

Czechoslovakia is a happy story. Counter that with Yugoslavia. One happy ending doesn't disprove a number of far less happy endings.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations! You've discovered the "reduction to absurdity" logical fallacy.

There is no law saying that specific people are forbidden to breathe. There has never been such a law. No one has proposed such a law. Any attempt to pass such a law would fail.
And such a law has NOTHING to do with laws about immigration or naturalization.

That's quite a lot of text to say nothing and advertise your ignorance. Please, save the world the time and electrons, and next time just skip it.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Miles Davis has little to do with European artistry, you dumb fuck.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

His what?!

Re:No problem

[AbRASiON]

I can see it now, a group of 7 rape a woman in the middle of a town square at midday in the middle of a parade.

Sadly the police and media /and the victim/ reports that no one can describe the assailants with any more detail than "multiple men",........

Of course the one guy who caught it on film is being charged for privacy violations and hate speech!
Wait is this Germany or Sweden?

Re: No problem

[datavirtue]

First thing that enters my mind....why the fuck does the tax authority have 13000 fucking workstations? Jesus Titty Fucking Christ.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because of all the n1gg3rs... duh !

Now that Europe is mass importing n1gg3rs too the rape rate is skyrocketing .

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The old tired argument...No I won't be sleeping on my couch and give my bed, but I may sleep in my bed and offer my couch. Stop playing the idiot.

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

you are quite insecure.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, let them eat Windows phones... Galons of Windows phones.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget - in American law, looking at a feminist the wrong way counts as "rape". Consensual sex with a feminist who decides a few weeks later that she regrets it - that's rape too. Guilty until proven innocent, and then still a little guilty.

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly the police and media /and the victim/ reports

Usually not. The police typically can't find any report at all and no victim is to be found since the event was fabricated by your average alternative "news" source.

Re: No problem

[nukenerd]

American history proves you wrong. Every country should have a Statue of Liberty. Melting pots make the best societies.

So America has one of the best societies? Not the impression I get from American posters here and the news generally. I would not want to live there, and it is becoming increasingly unpleasant to live in Europe as people like yourself try to make that into a melting pot too.

Re: No problem

[nukenerd]

The people Germany is taking in are not "refugees", they are adventurers taking advantage of a situation. The "Geneva Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees of 1951" does not apply to adventurers. Unless you count as "refugees" guys (and they are mostly young men of fighting age) who are getting away from GFs they have got pregnant, escaping debts they owe, running from petty crimes catching up with them, thinking they can earn more money, or any of he the miriad of other reasons that drives them.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Such arrogance. Will be funny to see your continent destroyed, which is already happening. And by the way, any continent that gave us the Portuguese should not be proud.....

Re: No problem

[thegarbz]

I do wonder given the have 1300 employees.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I call BS on that. They wouldn't throw themselves to drown in the first place if Europe wasn't there playing taxi.
Helping someone who is about to drown by accident and this is two very different things.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The majority is coming from obviously war-thorn regions like Syria and Afghanistan. I'm sick and tired of people like you who constantly make up excuses for being bad human beings.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The OP was talking about the objective legal situation, whereas you're just voicing your personal opinion. It's a pity how many people are unable to distinguish between the two.

Re: No problem

[datavirtue]

If you don't like the law, change it. ...oh yeah, and shut the fuck up with your stupid straw man shit. Your point was not missed by anyone....so your rambling is not at all insightful.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget, to conservative morality, a woman who leaves the kitchen is subject to being used by whatever man finds her, and even in the kitchen, it is her fault if the dinner is spoiled, and that angers the man to bloody rage.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean having no culture or identity?

Re:No problem

[MoarSauce123]

Not only that....US crime rate in general is much higher than Germany's. Since over a million of migrants came to Germany the overall crime rate declined. Some people just don't like facts and instead make stuff up to fit their arguments. As far as the Linux to Windows migration in Munich is concerned, it had nothing to do with Linux as such and more with lousy management. That was the main reason why the cost savings weren't as expected. Replacing OS is easier than fixing management, but it will not have the same impact.

Re:No problem

[MoarSauce123]

sorry...should have been a p tag, not a b tag.....oooops

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, youâ(TM)re imposing your morality and being self-righteous.

3rd world countries can keep blaming 1st world countries for their problems, or work towards solving them. Maybe stop reproducing so much? Maybe try educating the population?

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Letâ(TM)s stop helping people who canâ(TM)t take care of themselves and who continue breeding their own kind. Thatâ(TM)s not being a monster; itâ(TM)s common sense that was long somewhere along the way.

I want us to stop giving them fish and start teaching them how to fish...

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, leave your house and go walk in SF or Chicago. Just make sure you donâ(TM)t step in shit or prick yourself with a needle...

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are muslims youâ(TM)re describing...

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Declined or stopped being reported so as not to inflame anti-immigration feelings amongst the natives?

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually thought it came out quite well with the bold tag. Good post.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Don’t tell him where Algrabra was invented.

Re:No problem

[walterbyrd]

Microsoft needs to get something out of partnering with Red Hat.

Systemd is not really Linux anyway.

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see it now, a group of 7 rape a woman in the middle of a town square at midday in the middle of a parade.

Can you post a link to the video, please?

Erste shweinhund gepostierung

[Hognoxious]

Ich habe keine Teufeltommyenglanderpigdoggenversicherung fur meinem Strassenbahnhaltestellehandytasche!

Re: Erste shweinhund gepostierung

[Qbertino]

Was auch immer Du geraucht hast, gib mir bitte nichts davon ab!

Finally, this is the year

[Anonymous Coward]

Where Linux is no longer on the desktop.

Cost

[SmaryJerry]

Had they started using a windows is back in 2006, it's security would be no longer supported as well. If they can operate on Linux and are familiar, and I can't see why they would spend the money to change. I imagine they use them for basic tasks like email, typing word docs, excel sheets, and printing and not much else. In that case the free version will trump windows every time.

Re:Cost

[Known Nutter]

Leave The Cheeto out of this.

Re: Cost

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they should have been using Clinux instead. What the Hill! At this point, what does it matter?

Re:Cost

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Had they started using a windows is back in 2006, it's security would be no longer supported as well. If they can operate on Linux and are familiar, and I can't see why they would spend the money to change. I imagine they use them for basic tasks like email, typing word docs, excel sheets, and printing and not much else. In that case the free version will trump windows every time.

Holy shit, why are you suddenly talking about Windows and Linux in a conversation about immigration, you... (looks up) oh, shit, is THAT what conversation this is? Jesus Christ did THAT go off the rails. Thanks for trying to bring it back. LOL

Re: Cost

[datavirtue]

Most of it is probably screen pop to a shitty fucking web app.

Re:Cost

[nukenerd]

I expect that it is because all those immigrants that Germany wants to employ cheaply instead of its own workers have been brought up on pirated copies of Windows.

I guess

[DFurno2003]

this won't be the year of Linux on the desk top...

Shame

[110010001000]

It is a shame. Willingly paying for closed source malware and spyware isn't my idea of using money wisely.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

That should tell you how much desktop Linux sucks ass.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

The stupid thing is, it doesn't. Using it daily.

I suspect bribery . Sorry , it's called 'lobbying'.

Re:Shame

[110010001000]

Name a single thing that desktop Linux can't do, that Windows can. And don't say "play games". And stop with the "run my (esoteric) CAD software". Everyone on the planet seems to be a CAD guy when this comes up. This is what those people do: run a web browser, check email, write documents/spreadsheets. Thats it. You could do all those things on Linux, especially with Office365.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the thing that makes it more obvious how much of a failure these Linux desktop efforts are.

The requirements are so simple, yet so many walk away after trying.

Re:Shame

[DogDude]

Linux can't run our .Net based applications natively.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Installing anything without going through the terminal or through the often outdated repository.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

It usually can, what with Microsoft open-sourcing a significant portion of their .NET implementation and the leaps and bounds of progress Mono's been making.

Re:Shame

[superdude72]

Here's the value of Windows: When something breaks, you can blame it on those dumbasses at Microsoft and no one will hold you responsible because you're just using the same platform that 95 percent of the world uses. When something breaks in Linux, it's all your fault because you took a chance on a screwball operating system to save a few euros.

Back when IBM ruled the industry they had a slogan: "No one ever got fired for buying IBM." Well that's been the case with Microsoft since the '90s.

Re:Shame

[QuietLagoon]

...Linux can't run our .Net based applications natively....

Why does anyone write applications that are tied to one operating system?

Re:Shame

[CastrTroy]

Make a spreadsheet that has tables functionality. Excel is the only spreadsheet that has this feature, and it is extremely useful. Excel only runs on Windows.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's right. Desktop Linux sucks dick. And I say that as someone who has been running it as my main OS for well over a decade. In fact, desktop Linux today is in a worse state than it was when I started.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

CAD programs available on Linux is a straight up joke. QCAD is the only one that halfway works, but it's still an utterly buggy pos that's a clone of a sad joke from the 80's.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. I like KDE just fine on mint on my travel laptop. Encryption that doesn't gave a backdoor, etc.

But to be fair Windows Loader by DAZ still works for legacy bios installs even on coffeelake without much pain so to each his own. I mean my 1080ti ain't profitable anymore, so back to Far Cry 5 with all DLC, thx 1337 ;)

Re:Shame

[Phics]

An excellent question, but unfortunately organizations don't always have the luxury of selecting software that isn't. Different industries have different software requirements that often bind their hands with respect to OS choice. For example, healthcare require specific features in an EMR, and there may not be enough of a selection out there in that specialized field to allow for the luxury of selecting Linux, at least not in a simplified way... and part of the reason for this, is, even if you could run such clients on Linux, (with the help of Mono or other tech), the proprietary support from some of these companies would not allow for it. It becomes too much of a hassle, and nobody in these industries care much for starting a "holy war" over an ecosystem that they don't invest much heart or soul into. In healthcare, for example, patient care is all that matters, and whether that happens in Linux or Windows is typically a very minor concern.

Re:Shame

[ArchieBunker]

Why not when you can have it run on >80% of desktop computers?

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

That's baloney. Linux works very well on the desktop.

Re:Shame

[Tough Love]

Who benefits by replacing inherently secure Linux with malware magnet Windows? Russia does most certainly. And just need to coopt as few as one official, a few weeks of over-the-paunch sex should do it, easier than winning at Russian roulette.

Re: Shame

[Tough Love]

What are you using? I use KDE Plasma. Doesn't suck, far from it.

Re:Shame

[Tough Love]

In healthcare, for example, patient care is all that matters, and whether that happens in Linux or Windows is typically a very minor concern.

Today, Windows computers are routinely exploited to gain access to such critical infrastructure as the power grid. Why would you want to put your life at risk by helping the bad guys get into your medical devices too?

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more to do with who they hire. You can hire cheap semi-skilled immigrant IT workers to do Windows. Linux techs come at a higher price because most internet infrastructure runs linux. Those people aren't going to take a low paying desktop support job like Windows-trained people do. You can teach a trained monkey how to do that.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux rox, only mice use KDE.

B.T.W. the german state does not make policies or laws; politicians do. (but the police serve the state and uphold those laws). Lower Saxony has a powerful nazi party and they oppose migration.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux lacks virus support. It doesn't even have DDE nor OLE (whatever those are), nor does it support fall creators or come with a Metro UI. Anybody in the world can use your Windows PC. Windows offers two esoteric web browsers (except where the EU forbids that). Windows can play games (where it plays the cat and you are the mouse). Windows is better at consuming RAM, CPU power, disc space and network bandwidth. Windows produces economic growth (MS shareholders agree), whereas free software makes third world countries compete against America. Linux is only partly written in the U.S. The learning curve for Linux is too short and shallow. Linux does not really have 'desktop' or 'server' editions: any Tux will run any app.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Kde is too slow for network files. Have to use xfce. Gnome was good but they made it slow for gaming. If I didn't have LAN I might use Kde.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

That should tell you how much desktop Linux sucks ass.

1999 called - it wants its out-of-date arguments back.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows can't run your .NET-based applications natively. Microsoft ofers a Virtual Machine for running .NET programs.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Sad but true - it's your fault.
A few years ago I was porting an application to Linux and had a recurring problem with one particular workstation which would loose keyboard functionality and freeze after a reboot. It turned out that Linux became confused about which keyboard was active during system boot if the workstation was connected to a network with an active VPN session between other workstations. That resulted in corruption of a critical configuration file which then needed to be reinstalled before the next reboot or the keyboard would disappear. It was terribly irritating and I wanted to make sure my code wasn't messing things up. I am not a "member of the community" but took a few hours to document how to reproduce the bug at will (it was weird but not that hard and definitely not related to my code), document the corruption in the configuration file, and submit a bug report. I stupidly thought someone would appreciate the effort I went to documenting the situation that exposed the problem. Nope. Instead, I was told that I should fix the bug myself. When I tried to explain that I was working on a project for my employer and had neither the time nor Linux OS skill to do such work, I got a nasty reply basically saying that if I didn't want to support "the community" by fixing the bug then "the community" could not help me because "that's how the community works." . I finished my port and documented the malfunctioning configuration for "my community" so my users could avoid it. The experience soured me on "the Linux community" for a long, long time.

Re: Shame

[Tough Love]

Kde is too slow for network files.

Whaaaat?

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why does anyone write applications that are tied to one operating system?"

That would be commercial suicide. You should sell applications that require a particular version, edition, and distribution of some Operating System.

Re: Shame

[spyfrog]

I work in this industry and there is laws here that state that we have to have specific tests and development for this kind of software and the suppliers simply doesn't want to support Linux or any other platform than Windows. Most doesn't even support OSX. The only alternative to comply with the laws and use Linux would be a internally developed system. Security isn't something that the laws in this field take into account so Windows problems there doesn't count unfortunately.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

You just named two things.

Perhaps a low percentage of users require CAD software, but I would expect them to be over-represented on Slashdot.

A hell of a lot of people play games.

Finally, it's entirely possible for desktop Linux to do the things that it can do while sucking ass the whole time.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

So you got a rude reply. Guess what happens in the commercial world? They write a compiler that doesn't manage to do a typedef correctly, you need to debug, provide a trivial test-case and quote them the spec that they are actually wrong (as they keep claiming there is no bug), months later and after a lot of time invested they acknowledge it. Yet another few months later they come back and say they are too busy, couldn't we do without it for a while longer.
I've seen few companies where you'd get something better than the same reaction as you got from the "community", just with more politeness but minus the option to fix it yourself.
Same company has a tool that would be very useful if it supported pipes. Unfortunately someone felt they needed to add a stat call to make sure the input is a file. They've not managed to remove that single line of useless check in about a year.
They don't say "fuck off". But they're happy to leave you hoping until you die of old age (or at least retire). I still consider "fuck off" the reply I'd rather get.
Even though I admit your frustration at the episode is justified. I just disagree on it being an argument FOR proprietary.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Name a single thing that desktop Linux can't do, that Windows can. And don't say "play games".

Play games.

You tried to exclude that because you know that Linux, and macOS, have completely failed to make any significant headway into the games market. But that's what one hell of a lot of people want to DO with their computers. Yes, yes, people use the computer for office type stuff too, and Linux handles that fine. So what? Windows handles all that too, plus lets people play games. So at home the people who want to play games, or their kids, use Windows.

They know Windows, so it's an easy sell for everyone to use Windows in the office, too, since no one has to be trained on the Windows basics (or hardly anyone).

Linux is never going to make real headway on the desktop in terms of market share, unless and until there are major games available, that gamers want, with multiplayer and single player, and incredible graphics -- and they're Linux only.

Linux isn't even fighting in that arena. That why it loses.

Re: Shame

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

LOL at your sig... every problem starts to look like a thumb... heheheheheh... thanks, I needed that today. aaahhhhh... :')

Re:Shame

[DogDude]

Because Java didn't work out for lots of different reasons.

Re:Shame

[thegarbz]

Willingly paying for closed source malware and spyware isn't my idea of using money wisely.

Since when do enterprises get the malware and spyware version?

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

In both cases, when something breaks nobody fixes it without more money.

Re:Shame

[fazig]

We're talking about state employees here. As far as my personal experiences with people who are employed by the German states go, they're among the least competent people that you can find. They could probably handle a desktop Android without further training but not your usual Linux distros.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Name a single thing that desktop Linux can't do, that Windows can.

Not suck.

Re: Shame

[tonique]

In the commercial realm, there's Bricscad also for Linux. It is quite compatible with Autocad.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

all is not lost. they could still use libreoffice and open formats/protocols in general and that might be even more important. operating systems come and go.

Re:Shame

[ChatHuant]

Why does anyone write applications that are tied to one operating system?

Because "runs on multiple operating systems" is a requirement only for specific areas or cases. In most real world situations, it's not - it's actually unnecessary and harmful.

Even if geeks fantasize about those ideal universal applications, and vocally complain on forums, in reality it takes a lot of effort and expense to write applications that run seamlessly on different operating systems. They will be more difficult to write and maintain, require more knowledgeable (and therefore expensive) programmers, and provide lower performance than a native application. They will perforce have inconsistency in the UI - the app can either adopt the operating system paradigm and therefore behave differently on different machines, or else provide an unified UI, and therefore be inconsistent with native applications running on the same computer.

If you're not a software company, your users are your organization's employees. Most organizations tend to standardize on a certain environment, with very good reasons. Why then go to the effort and expense to make their apps compatible with some other operating system they'll won't ever be expected to run under?

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no enterprise CRM aps, and most telco vendors don't have linux admin clients.

No one give a shit about KDE or GNOME, but an enterprise needs the tools to run the business. We have Win Xp laptops still running due to legacy apps that are not supported but the hardware still works fine.

Linux fucktards still miss the basic point: YOU NEED APPS.

Re: Shame

[Billly Gates]

A sane UI meant for desktops not phones complete with a start menu and controls to Maximize and resize Windows familiar to the user, Active Directory and group policy, Organization units, Oracle software, legacy stuff, activeX aka COM Excel and IE add-ons, printer drivers, wifi connectivity with EAP and all devices, Endpoint Security Protection software, Outlook for Free/Busy meeting & invites, system restore and chkdisk that mere techs can use(not senior admins), bitlocker, .pac files proxy, ADFS single sign on, federations and trusts with other entities that use Windows for access, Excel, and the list goes on and on.

  Gnome 3 and current KDE is shit and that doesn't even address the list above.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Well? Look at how the alternative worked out. They're now willing to pay to leave that behind.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

But MS .Net is open source and an open standard so how could it not have a functional version on Linux? Didn't Miguel Iacaza make a Linux version of .Net and then went to work for Microsoft?

So how on Earth could .Net not work perfectly well on Linux?

FYI, that was all a joke. It's Micro$oft tied so the PR says all kinds of things about interoperability yet it sucks and fails on anything and moreso on non-Windows platforms.

Re: Shame

[datavirtue]

Ubuntu 10.10 was the peak....it dipped roughly below the peak and has been hovering there for ten years.

Re: Shame

[datavirtue]

As COO I wouldn't touch Linux with a ten foot pole unless it was in the data center and not RedHat and not involving winbind.

Re: Shame

[datavirtue]

You assertions about cross platform are quickly becoming wrong and harmful.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

...Linux can't run our .Net based applications natively....

Why does anyone write applications that are tied to one operating system?

Different OSs have different UIs and file system organization.
What's hard is writing applications for wildly different UIs and making them look, and more importantly, interact exactly the same way from mouse wheel scrolling to printer font rendering to file system navigating.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Follow the suitcases full if cash. Somewhere in Germany a public servant is driving a brand new bummer!

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

What you said, plus this:
Let's ask our bosses this question: "I have an idea that would not significantly increase the number of customers we have, but would double our development costs. Do you want to hear about it?"

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

You assertions about cross platform are quickly becoming wrong and harmful.

Actually he's not. Disclaimer: I'm a hobbyist programmer who has tried creating some cross platform APIs.

Even if you use some web frontend*, someone has to maintain the client running it. That client has to be kept up-to-date on all devices that run it. Those devices have to be kept up-to-date themselves. Those last two have to be done either by the device owner (individuals) or the IT staff (organizations). Each additional platform comes with it's own ongoing maintenance issues / patches / headaches that occur well after you write the latest cross platform widget. In many aspects that makes cross platform less attractive to the public because it creates additional support problems and potential security breach vectors.

From the design side of things the question becomes how much to you want to depend on some abstraction library and what platforms do you want to support in the future? Depend too much on an abstraction library, and you're limited to the platforms it supports natively without a major rewrite, while praying the next update to it doesn't require a major rewrite. Depend too little on an abstraction library, and you're reinventing the wheel constantly to make up for incompatibilites between host APIs, outright missing functionality, architechual differences, standard changes, compiler / runtime standard violations, and host updates / upgrades. If you want to support an addtional platform, you either have to think ahead and have that groundwork done during initial development, or you have to worry about version differences, shim layers to provide support, and unexpected errors some which may be reopenings of previous ones long thought fixed.

On the maintainer's side of things, you get such fun as Bug #123234 affects platforms X and Y but not Z, fixing the bug causes Z to create Bug #124356, which is blocked on meta-bug #212, and has been marked WONTFIX three different times.

Nothing about cross platform support is easy or cheap. At least it isn't if you do it right to begin with, and care about providing proper support beyond HOST_ERROR. Overdependence on any library makes your project beholden to it, and that is a recipe for disaster, or at least one hell of a major rewrite, in the future.

*Specifically the "web as a platform" proponents fail to address their own unique issues:

1. Complete dependance on running untrusted / unvetted constantly changing code.

2. Linking in potentially compromised third party code at runtime.

3. Web browsers becoming individual platforms themselves as demands to use more and more of the host system's capabilities bloat the originally a document viewer's API, and recreating all of the cross-platform issues stated previously anew in the process.

4. Inherent mixing of tasks by end users creating more opportunity for compromise.

5. Inability to address issues caused by opportunistic greed. AKA platform API development being driven by advertisers and other unscrupulous actors.

6. Constant undermining of end user security due to said bloat and unsafe practices.

Re: Shame

[ShoulderOfOrion]

This is the real issue. Most users are technically illiterate. Yes, they may be in their 20s and can multitask Instagram and Facebook at the same time, but really, they are crazy technically illiterate. When the network connection drops and they don't realize it's because they kicked the CAT6 cable out of its socket, they call the IT department. IT workers that know Linux can only take so much of that before they move on to better jobs for the sake of their sanity. For a Windows IT worker, that's just a normal day on the job. They don't have better jobs to move on to.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Security isn't something that the laws in this field take into account so Windows problems there doesn't count unfortunately.

Something is wrong in this world when building construction related laws and regulations change according to the developing issues and new materials, but regulations for building digital systems doesn't.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Excel is the only spreadsheet that has this feature

A very good reason to not use it.
Being able to take my business elsewhere is a far more important feature than tables.

I see no problem with using proprietary programs, but if they save in a proprietary file format they are a no-go.
I am not going to pay to put myself in a situation where I am at the mercy of a single company.

Re:Shame

[thegarbz]

Please. Windows hasn't been a malware magnet for years. The vast majority of malware out there targets applications (Adobe is good for this) and silly users who will run executables with admin privileges. There's very little malware out there targeting any OS these days.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

KDE Plasma's team is working on it's speed to eventually make itself available on ARM processors. This isn't your KDE 3 of yesteryear. With how well their UI performs *with* bells and whistles on my integrated graphics, they're probably well on their way to that kind of optimization.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

So someone tried running those using wine? I bet not.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Seem to remember reading some time ago that this move is a purely political one, not at all technical.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux can't run our .Net based applications natively.

But that's supposed to be an advantage, right?

However, Microsoft claims the contrary. They say they made ".NET" fully opensource and cross-platform. Obviously they didn't, but it's a great PR statement to say they're no less than Java.

(Strictly speaking, managed languages don't run natively anywere)

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's easier to make cross-platform applications today, and you get them to run in virtually every existing computer. Even in future platforms, without the need to change anything.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Because "runs on multiple operating systems" is a requirement only for specific areas or cases. In most real world situations, it's not - it's actually unnecessary and harmful.

Well, that's not the trend anymore. Even Microsoft has been promoting managed and cross-platform languages lately, which can run on different operating systems.

Your comment is actually unnecessary on this thread, and harmful to people with little knowledge about these topics.

Re: Shame

[Maelwryth]

Seconded. Plasma just works.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it is cheaper.

If I write a .NET application and run it on Windows then my development work flow is simplified, plus, my testing regime is substantially reduced. There are also reduced support requirements.

Now, I could equally target Linux in the same way.

What the world really needs is a universal API for applications. The dream of write-once run-anywhere is certainly worth pursuing, but with so many vested commercial interests I doubt it will ever happen.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Easier yes, but not as easy as it should be.

What would you pick today as the best language + library of choice for dead-easy cross-platform software development?

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, in my experience the worst thing that closed source commercial software companies do is deny there is any problem at all. Then, some 6-12 months later the bug fix is quietly slipped into the next release. But you won't be alerted or contacted in any way, because as far as they're concerned the bug did not exist in the first place.

I've seen this happen on two separate occasions with large established software companies that should know better.

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

.net is multiplatform. write once check a dialog box and you can deploy to Windows Mac linux BSD Android ios azure cloud etc. write once run everywhere.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Or how big the MS kickback is

Re: Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact, desktop Linux today is in a worse state than it was when I started.

Indeed, systemd didn't exist back then.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

For server side applications I'd pick Java, without any doubts.

For client side, the trend is now towards Electron based apps, though I prefer to use something like Qt which, although not "write once run anywhere", is pretty much cross platform soft.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a shame. Willingly paying for closed source malware and spyware isn't my idea of using money wisely.

From an organisational perspective, productivity and useful tools are the main thing.

Clearly, they've decided that Linux just wasn't cutting it for their needs.

It's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

In two years time, expect a news story over how they're charging Microsoft beeellions of euros for Windows 10s data exfiltration breaching EU law in some unspecified manner.

Is Windows 10 really an option?

[Anonymous Coward]

One would think that Windows 10 monetization through data-mining is incompatible with the handling of third-party private data such as income taxes.

Re:Is Windows 10 really an option?

[admin7087]

I'm pretty sure they get a special deal as corporate/state administration customers. Using a normal copy of Windows 10 would definitely violate German data protection standards.

no wonder

[Anonymous Coward]

most of the current varieties cannot play simple multimedia files. just don't call it censorship or market manipulation..

Interesting dilemma

[Kohath]

Idealism vs. getting shit done. It's no surprise that Germany's government is choosing getting shit done.

They should try that for electricity generation next.

Re:Interesting dilemma

[110010001000]

What, exactly, isn't getting "done" when they use Linux? The only thing that isn't getting done is that some MS sales rep isn't getting paid and thus isn't bribing the right people.

Re:Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

> getting shit done.

Or just taking bribes. Look at the spanking new Berlin Airport to get an idea of how the Germans are at "getting shit done", especially when corrupt politicians get involved (hint: not better than everywhere else, why should they?).

And Microsoft is pretty good at "educating" "decision makers". Actually -- that's the only thing they are good at. Making software? You serious?

Re:Interesting dilemma

[Kohath]

Every decision I don't like is always motivated by someone getting bribed. If people stopped taking bribes and started to do the things that appeal to me emotionally, everything in the world would be a paradise for all.

Re:Interesting dilemma

[Calydor]

After dealing with German bureaucracy for the past eight years I can assure you, the German government's list of interests doesn't include "Get shit done".

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

Corruption is a huge drain on society. We will never achieve a true meritocracy, but every country could make improvements. This decision does benefit MS, and if the process can be aided by funding or discounts MS can and should do that (according to current law).

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Kohath]

The overwhelming majority of everyone chooses X. Germany now also chooses X. You really think bribery and corruption are the most likely reasons?

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

No, stupidity, ignorance and herd mentality.

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

Where microsoft is concerned you mean? Hmmm. Yep.

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

There has to be some reason for the state to make a choice that clearly hurts them in multiple severe ways.
An expensive, buggy, insecure, spyware-ridden OS that's ILLEGAL to bugfix? Follow the money.

Re:Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

So according to you, Germany hasn't gotten anything done since 2006. You are obviously just another Linux hater.

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Kohath]

There has to be some reason for the state to make a choice that clearly hurts them in multiple severe ways.

Most obvious possible reason: they disagree. They don't think it hurts them.

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Billly Gates]

Hey I am a non techie CFO and need an Excel file with 50,000 rows in 25 columns which pull data from an Oracle database and uses thingie called SmartView Excel add-on. Can you help me?

Oh I forget to mention the German department of revenue is serving a file on a corporate Windows based share internally that I need to access. Their documentation mentioned about a trust relationship between something called a domain and ADFS SSO single sign on MFA authentication needs to be set so we can access material whatever that is?!?

Oh and I am trying to use Free/Busy on Mozilla Thunderbird to set a Skype meeting invite with their tech department and I don't see it! 101010101 HELP?!

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

A fantastic description of the Linux community.

Re:Interesting dilemma

[hairyfeet]

Anything to do with office work because Linux is for PROGRAMMERS not office workers? I'm sorry dude by MS Office from 10 years ago kicks the dogshit out of the latest and greatest LibreOffice, not even close. try doing anything even slightly complex like working with tables and watch how quickly LO shits itself and falls down...its just sad.

A customer asked me to set up LO to auto generate a calendar for each month and I get paid $75 an hour so time IS money but hey I figured "hey surely its as simple as MS Office, it IS just a simple calendar after all"...nope, searched the LO database and the best one i could find was a glued together POS that required ME to write code to get it to interface with the OS to get the date to set up the correct layout, otherwise all it did was crank out a worthless generic 30 day calendar. I told him it was gonna cost him more than the cost of MS Office to make me set there and write that shit so he asked me how simple it was in MS Office...I popped open my netbook, typed "calendar" in MS Office which popped up the MSO Online DB, clicked on calendar, hit install...done. Then I just clicked "new calendar" and it would auto-generate a perfect calendar with the month and year in one of 4 styles,ez pz...needless to say he bought himself a copy of MSO on the spot.

This doesn't even begin to touch the bazillion other programs which Windows has that Linux isn't even close, from Exchange and Excel to Quicken/Quickbooks to the billing software that most companies use, I'm sorry but Linux? Great for programmers and maybe grandmas that only use PCs to surf (but I would argue that a locked down iPad or Android Tablet would be better for those) but for everybody else? Yeah sorry but its about as useful as taking away their PCs and replacing them with a Llama.

Re:Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

On the other hand I can open files with x00,000 lines in LibreOffice but Excel crashes miserably with the same files so I guess each has its strengths.

Re: Interesting dilemma

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely reason: we're governed by corrupt morons.

They WANT a OS designed by marketing for teens?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is utter garbage. The only reason for its existence is games... and it's getting so even that isn't worth the pain.

Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

What are their most bigger issues with Linux as desktop?

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

do you want the whole truth?
Linux doesn't have the exact same colour in the buttons.
That's where your average public servant gets a panic attack and demands something that he/she/it is familiar with.

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you will find compatibility with outside organizations, for sure. Followed a close second to having to carry the full burden of training and maintenance internally.

Mac OS X is a better choice, if you can afford it. But Windows is cheaper and a lower barrier for employee training, developers, software availability...

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

Try this anecdotal evidence:
Open LibreOffice Calc 6.0.2.1, rotate text 180 and add borders. Things look, print and export with huge black lines.

Open random docx your friend or colleague sent you, it looks different or even terrible (yes, they are bad at formatting, yes, it would look slightly better if you had Microsoft fonts installed).

Print a document to an USB printer, unplug it during printing. Now google how to "Enable" your cups printer.

Open Firefox on your touchscreen laptop, try finger scrolling. It selects text instead. It luckily works in Chromium.

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

6.0.5.2 prints fine.

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

Training? I call bullshit. Have you ever seen any workplace train people on how to use a desktop GUI?

Re: Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Next question.

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's my 2 cents as a Linux user:

LibreOffice: can't polish a turd
touchscreen: Firefox are you fucking with me?
Got laptop?: Goodluck.
Printer: Hook it up to your network. This one's mostly manufacturer's fault but generally if you get business grade printers(e.g. laser printers) drivers are widely available.

Re:Strange

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI printer issue isn't Linux only even Windows 10 lose their shit every time they push an update to the OS. I have at least 7 copies of printers in the device manager because Windows 10 for some reason will not recognize the previously configured printers after every fucking update, even though it's the same fucking printer I am configuring.

How is that socialism now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does not feel good when the shoe is on the other foot.

Re:How is that socialism now?

[Anonymous Coward]

socialism means nobody has shoes.

Re:How is that socialism now?

[Anonymous Coward]

In your parlance, in a socialistic economy, where are all the shoes? Who has them? Compare to the answer for capitalism, where the wealthiest 1% have all the shoes -- more pairs than they will ever need.

Re:How is that socialism now?

[Anonymous Coward]

where are all the shoes? Who has them?

nobody ended up making them. :(

Re:How is that socialism now?

[Anonymous Coward]

where are all the shoes? Who has them?

nobody ended up making them. :(

Right. Because in a socialist state, there is no need for shoes, nor are there ever resources to make shoes. (in a socialist state, where are all the resources? Compare with capitalist, where it's in the hands of the 1%)

Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[mykepredko]

That this is being done *without* a cost-benefit analysis.

There is a certain amount of politics here, but if I were a citizen/tax payer of Lower Saxony I'd be mostly concerned that this is being done before an analysis is available.

I understand that Open Suse 12.2 and 12.3 are obsolete, but I would think that migrating to Leap 42 or Leap 15 would would be a lot cheaper than buying Windows 10 licenses. In TFA, they cite the issue that telephone support is now being done on Windows - but I would think that it would be more cost effective to move them to Linux.

But, without any kind of analysis, the people who are going to pay for this won't know.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

*without* a cost-benefit analysis.

Not surprising, MS has likely established a nice cosy relationship with em, and weaseled their way back in with "corporate gifts" to those who can make a decision like that. I mean, does Linus regularly meet with them to keep the relationship with Linux warm? Probably not :-)

MS also likely shit the bed over their switch to Linux, because if one government does it, that opens the door for more to follow.

Call me surprised, I was in Lowe's the other day (hardware chain store in the US if you not from these parts), noticed one of their workstations in the gardening department, it was Linux! All be it with a very minimal desktop, Firefox and a couple other things were visible on the desktop, I'll guess all it had to to do was run an application browser and print to the printer next to it. Sure thats somewhat far removed from a workstation used in government.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Licenses are, typically, a small factor to consider when choosing large scale software, especially operating systems. I agree that the apparent lack of cost benefit is a concern, but the real cost isn't software, it's getting it working. MCSE qualified people are ten a penny but a good Linux sysadmin is expensive. Factoring all costs, not just software licenses, it's a sad fact that Windows can actually come out as a cheaper option, or at least closely competitive.

Add that to the "what everyone else is using" bandwaggon and you get a vicious circle of terrible software coming out on top.

All that said I'd be genuinely surprised if upgrading to the latest Suse would not be, hands down, the most sensible & cost effective option since they're already got the Suse experienced talent working for them.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also entirely possible that they're having trouble getting decent *nix sysadmins. I work at a government research lab. Because we can't pay as much as private industry, it's been a nightmare to get and keep *nix admins. Multiple times we've resorted to retraining windows admins and giving admin job responsibilities to programmers.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[thegarbz]

That this is being done *without* a cost-benefit analysis.

That's an big assumption right there, and a stupid one given that some of the proposed "benefits" as well as money set aside for the "costs" are listed in the article.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

MCSE qualified people are ten a penny but a good Linux sysadmin is expensive.

And you get exactly what you pay for. A good Linux sysadmin can manage an order of magnitude more machines than a button clicking MCSE. The certification process isn't there to create 'qualified' professionals, it's designed to create a certification ecosystem which is a business in of itself that companies pay a fortune on. MS knows this.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[mykepredko]

From TFA:

Lower Saxony's tax authority will now conduct a cost-benefit analysis on the migration.

Decision was made before the analysis was done.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

MCSE qualified people are also often clueless. This will cost Germany big time.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who says they are doing this without a cost-benefit analysis?

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

But nothing commences till the cost benefit analysis is complete. Though usually in these situations you are well aware of the numbers long before a formal analysis is completed.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[thegarbz]

Decision was made before the analysis was done.

A quick guide on how things work in Germany, not just in politics but also in private businesses. All those things you hold for granted in the USA, the ability to work together with someone from another department, or the adoption of an "idea" all of those have hopelessly bureaucratic channels to work through. Pretty much every thing you need to do over here involves you doing the hard work up front off the books to convince your boss (or someone else's) that doing the hard work is actually worth the time after which you will get approval to do the hard work formally retrospectively.

There is not a single thing I have done in Germany in the past 9 months where the paperwork doesn't say that the decision was made before the analysis, however in the interest of never having an idea knocked back because the analysis fails to backup the idea it is actually always done beforehand, bonus points that they have a working example to draw on making this unofficial analysis easy.

Don't believe everything you read verbatim in the media. Especially in politics, and especially in such a frigging super stricked black and white rule oriented country like Germany.

Re:Where tax payers should be concerned is...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a feeling that its less about the upgrade friction in difficulty in cost than it is about usability. Like it or not, OSes are simply an input tool to get shit done. To use an analogy, Windows to Linux is the equivalent of a QWERTY compared to a Dvorak layout. The lost time in re-education/learning curve doesn't justify the performance gains, especially when you consider turnover.

POTUS declares EU as fiend

[sanf780]

If EU is not a friend anymore according to Trump, why does the EU allow USA software in their administration?

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[110010001000]

Big corporations like MS are no longer US companies. They are mega-conglomerates that are above national boundaries. The real question is why is any government running closed source software?

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[PolygamousRanchKid]

If EU is not a friend anymore according to Trump, why does the EU allow USA software in their administration?

Snarky answer:

. . . probably because the EU is thinking long term, and that in six years, Trump won't be POTUS anymore.

And then everyone will pretend to be friends again.

Realistic answer:

. . . probably for the same reason that the US government is using software from SAP, produced in Germany, an enemy state of the US in the current government's eyes.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

why is any government running closed source software?

If they don't need access to the source code then they don't care.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

Because getting shit done is more important than engaging in some ideological crusade.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump will be reelected. This is wishful thinking. Statistics are against you. Most presidents got reelected. Most one term are because "circumstances" (death, or gate things, ...).

Two terms (7): Dwight D. Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan , Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Richard Nixon, Lyndon B. Johnson
One term (4): Jimmy Carter, George H. W. Bush, John F. Kennedy, Gerald Ford

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Goglu]

Stupid comment: the US would NEVER spy on Germany!!!

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[BronsCon]

Yes, and presidential terms last 4 years, with a limit of 2 terms. That's 8 years, it's been (rounded up) 2.

8 - 2 = ??

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure that the EU hasn't unfriended US even if Trump would have done so to the EU. In Twitter. The recent talks about European chip projects do tell us that some people in the EU consider the risk of being "China'ed" increasing, however.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Kohath]

Same reason China uses US-designed semiconductors: no viable homegrown alternatives, now or in the foreseeable future. With some noteworthy exceptions, Europe has been falling further behind in areas of technology recently.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[thegarbz]

If EU is not a friend anymore according to Trump, why does the EU allow USA software in their administration?

Because the EU like the rest of the sane world understand that shit coming from Trump's mouth is just that. Also common, EU is not a friend? Where did you get that idea from? Tuesday? As of Wednesday we're besties working towards open trade and Junker even gave Trump a kiss on the cheek.

Don't worry though, a stopped clock is wrong twice a day, and pretty much anything you think Trump thinks about something or someone is probably correct every other week too. Now that we're besties I fully expect him to launch drone strikes against Brussels.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you are not getting shit done, since you are just hanging around here spamming that BS.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do we allow an American company to advantage our EU foes! #AmericaFirst #MAGA

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

Awww, baby thinks 8 years is long term....

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

If EU is not a friend anymore according to Trump, why does the EU allow USA software in their administration?

Don't you mean Irish software?

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[Anonymous Coward]

If EU is not a friend anymore according to Trump, why does the EU allow USA software in their administration?

Some time ago, it was revealed that Angela Merkel's mobile phone had been tapped by the USA administration.

What was the germans reaction? To smile and tell Obama just not to do these pranks again.

Germans, post-war, have always considered themselves to be american subordinates somehow. They don't mind being an USA satellite state, the same way their eastern counterparts (the former GDR) were a soviet satellite state.

Re:POTUS declares EU as fiend

[BronsCon]

It was PolygamousRanchKid who said that was long tern; not me. Try again?

Upgrade Cost

[Anonymous Coward]

An upgrade of some kind would in any case be necessary soon, as the PCs are running OpenSuse versions 12.2 and 13.2, neither of which is supported anymore

They don't even have the money to upgrade or maintain their Linux systems currently.. And now they'll need to upgrade many of their OEM systems for that better Windows 10 experience as well.

Re:Ahhhnd another one's gone, another one's gone

[Anonymous Coward]

And, oh, DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!!!1!

uhh... Steve Ballmer, is that you?

CAD

[ArchieBunker]

CAD is mentioned because this is a tech site and probably has lots of engineers. How about Adobe Premiere then?

Support

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's be real here: if you're paying someone a lot of money, you're going to get a lot of support. If you pay someone a little bit of money, you'll get a little bit of support. Government wants support.

Take Red Hat: they're not very expensive support wise, ergo, good luck getting any feature requests or what they deem "minor" bugs fixed. Not to mention, enjoy re-learning how to troubleshoot every major version (systemd). Let's look at a huge customer: DoD. Oh look, it can take years to get things fixed for them, mind that you need to pay for access to a bulletin stating a product doesn't support a feature..

Now let's take Microsoft: they'll bend over backwards to keep government agencies onboard. Sure, they'll own you in licensing, but you'll own them in obtaining support that doesn't suck (except for their technet documentation of course), and you also tend to get a lot of things thrown in with Software Assurance (e.g. in-person training).

Re: Support

[Anonymous Coward]

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

Re: Support

[Anonymous Coward]

Fantastic list, but which ones offer commercial support?

Re: SAD

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a very stable genus!!! You'll all see 4D chess everyone!

J$3$ did wtc look in to it! - Eddy Bravo

No

[ArchieBunker]

I wish more companies would make OSX builds of software. I'd run a hackintosh in a heartbeat.

Linux is the worst

[OrangeTide]

I hate it when an operating system doesn't charge me thousands of dollars per year to renew licenses

Re:Linux is the worst

[jonesy16]

You must not be using an enterprise version then. RedHat charges $299 per workstation license, per year, if you want support, $179 if you want to do it yourself. You can get the desktop version with no support, but you're still going to pay $49 / yr. Windows 10 is $84 / yr in comparison. So if you're going to compare apples to apples by comparing the pricing of enterprise licensing with support, then you're not really any better off in either camp.

Re:Linux is the worst

[brucekeller]

Couldn't you just hire a few techs that actually know Linux and not just how to use grep and they could be the support? Most of the changes needed to be made could easily be automated.

Re:Linux is the worst

[Tough Love]

You must not be using an enterprise version then. RedHat charges $299 per workstation license, per year.

Somebody uses Redhat for workstations? Who? The vast majority of Redhat installs are servers. Stupidly expensive maintenance subscriptions imho, but it makes sense to somebody. I suppose, the cost is nothing compared to managing more machines with fewer admins.

Re:Linux is the worst

[Anonymous Coward]

You must not be using an enterprise version then.

Like CentOS?

Re:Linux is the worst

[cascadingstylesheet]

You must not be using an enterprise version then. RedHat charges $299 per workstation license, per year, if you want support, $179 if you want to do it yourself. You can get the desktop version with no support, but you're still going to pay $49 / yr. Windows 10 is $84 / yr in comparison. So if you're going to compare apples to apples by comparing the pricing of enterprise licensing with support, then you're not really any better off in either camp.

And?

Realistically, most places with Windows support it themselves. That's while still paying for the licenses.

And you know perfectly well there are good usable Linux distributions that don't require paid support licenses. With Windows, you pay whether you use any support or not, no matter what.

With Linux you can have any kind of custom distribution you want. Not so, Windows.

Linux, "telemetry" optional. Windows, mandatory ...

Re:Linux is the worst

[PmanAce]

No, it's the users that don't know how to use it, they are used to windows at home or elsewhere. That is the main problem.

Re:Linux is the worst

[cascadingstylesheet]

You must not be using an enterprise version then. RedHat charges $299 per workstation license, per year.

Somebody uses Redhat for workstations? Who? The vast majority of Redhat installs are servers. Stupidly expensive maintenance subscriptions imho, but it makes sense to somebody. I suppose, the cost is nothing compared to managing more machines with fewer admins.

It's a lame debate tactic. Yeah, if you cherry pick the most expensive way you could use Linux, it's expensive. How about that.

Re:Linux is the worst

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely, I hate it when I can easily remove the bloatware they included in the OS. I mean those things must be useful right?

Re:Linux is the worst

[Tough Love]

I'm not saying Linux is expensive. I am saying, some server operators choose to pay a lot of money to Red Hat, when any serious Linux geek knows it's probably a dump idea because free distros are at least as reliable and usually have more up to date kernels. That's their business.

The big boys like Google, Facebook and even Microsoft don't buy per-machine support from Red Hat, and for the most do not run RPM-based distros. They do however hire Red Hat for consulting from time to time.

Speaking of lame, it's kind of lame to not read the post you are replying and notice that you're actually arguing on the same side.

Re:Linux is the worst

[Anonymous Coward]

contact RH and ask for site license for RHEL. much cheaper!
https://oit.colorado.edu/software-hardware/site-licenses/redhat-linux

Re: Linux is the worst

[cascadingstylesheet]

I was agreeing with you, and arguing (implicitly) with the guy you had replied to.

Re:Linux is the worst

[jonesy16]

It's not a debate tactic, it's a factual reference to the cost of enterprise level OS installations/support. OpenSUSE is about the same cost so there isn't any cherry picking of the most expensive solution. You're taking this whole debate out of context. We're talking about a government purchasing an operating system for tens of thousands of workstations. They will NOT support those all internally, they most likely WANT it to be certified on their hardware, and none of their employees are going to put their necks on the line and say "I'll support this internally." Even to hire the dedicated staff to do so would be expensive (remember that employees cost you in salary, benefits, pensions, or whatever the German equivalent is).

If cost were the primary motivator they would just take the default Windows install that comes with the hardware they could buy in bulk from someone like Dell. The 20+ year hatred of Microsoft on this website doesn't excuse anyone from trying to understand how big businesses that use machines "just to get things done" don't care about the 0.5% performance gain you got from compiling your own distro or the $49 you saved by using your open-source office app that struggles to interchange recent file formats.

And yes, I'm sure that Microsoft has a much better understanding of international data privacy laws and has no problem tailoring their OS to support a government's specific needs. They've been doing it for decades. But *surprise*, for basic home users they're going to try and scrape some information they deem useful that, at the end of the day, likely isn't going to affect you one iota. And now everyone else will jump on me for that in between checking their Gmail account and Facebook feed, but I'm the loose-lipped liberal ;-)

Re: Linux is the worst

[Tough Love]

Heh, then my comment was self referential.

Re:Linux is the worst

[Tough Love]

And it's usually a mistake to accept the claims of a random shill without verifying. What does "if you want to do it yourself" mean? The $299 is for "developer workstation" including "incident reports" (means access to Redhat's bugzilla?) not a "workstation license". In fact, Redhat doesn't sell a "license", they sell a "workstation" for $49. Presumably you pay for Redhat putting it onto a disk because "license" is a loaded term, sounding too much like additional restrictions.

Redhat store

Redhat is in the bottled water business... what they sell is free, you pay for getting it conveniently in a bottle with somebody at least minimally attesting as to its quality. Funny business that, selling free stuff for money, but it works. You pay for it if you want to. If you don't want to pay, download the exact same thing from Centos, also run by Redhat. I don't begrudge Redhat their business model at all. Compared to Microsoft, there is no such thing as being sued by Redhat for a license violation, that is, unless you go full evil on GPL license violations, that's another thing.

LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you have your answer to "Will 2018 be the year of the Linux Desktop?". There's always 2019!

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

This is the graph that should worry Microsoft.

Re:LOL

[DogDude]

Why? MS already bailed on phones, unfortunately. They never made money on them, apparently. People still need real computers and likely will for a long, long time. Android doesn't compete with Windows in any way.

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

Right, MS bailed on phones, therefore losing the war. Google is moving radidly into the full PC desktop space with ChromeOS aka Linux (check out Crostini) and they already have a lock on the cloud productivity space. You will also see ChromeOS increasingly present with a standard windowing interface. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that many major software vendors are already eyeing ChromeOS ports. That's Microsoft's last line of defence.

Even without defeating Microsoft on its home turf, the world is just changing. Most users never did need to run a spreadsheet, now many of them don't even need to run a word processor. They do things by messaging now, not by documents. The world is moving on and Microsoft just can't.

Re:LOL

[thegarbz]

Why? Kids playing with toys doesn't affect the OS that is used to keep the economy going. And if someone decided they do want to attempt to do work on their phone, MS is right there with the complete office suite available on Android.

Re:LOL

[thegarbz]

Google is moving radidly into the full PC desktop space with ChromeOS aka Linux (check out Crostini [chromeunboxed.com]) and they already have a lock on the cloud productivity space.

Are you high? ChomeOS is a blip in a rounding error of the market share. It's right there in your original link you posted. As for having a lock on the cloud productivity space I find it amazing they are able to do that with 6% of the cloud market share, a small fraction of what Microsoft and Amazon offer.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

One embrace at a time...

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

Google is moving radidly into the full PC desktop space with ChromeOS aka Linux (check out Crostini [chromeunboxed.com]) and they already have a lock on the cloud productivity space.

Are you high? ChomeOS is a blip in a rounding error of the market share.

Are you drunk? Chromebook shipments surge by 38 percent, cutting into Windows 10 PCs. Chromebooks are perennial Amazon bestsellers. Chromebooks hold a majority of the US K-12 market. Chromebooks can do everything Android can. Time to sober up. Or don't, nobody cares about your Slashdot upchuck.

Did I mention, Chromebooks are pretty damn secure.

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

Kids playing with toys doesn't affect the OS that is used to keep the economy going.

Haha, that's really funny. Surely you have not forgotten that the PC was originally a toy home computer to compete with Apple II.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's be real: 99% of Windows revenue comes from companies who don't care about Android, ChromeOS or any other OS in their AD- fueled desktops. And when K12 and Android users get a job, they will also use.. a Windows desktop. While Windows is a SOLUTION on the desktop, Linux and ChromeOS are just OS..

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

Kids playing with toys doesn't affect the OS that is used to keep the economy going.

Haha, that's really funny. Surely you have not forgotten that the PC was originally a toy home computer to compete with Apple II.

Even if you are a knuckledragger with mod points you did not change the facts because the internet remembers

Re:LOL

[PmanAce]

So you are comparing cell phones to computers? I wonder which one people buy more...

Re:LOL

[holostarr]

People like you don't even know what they are championing. I mean what is the point you are trying to make? You hate Windows because it isn't open source and free, or you believe it spies on you, but you celebrate ChromeOS which is made by Google who has a worse reputation for spying than Microsoft? Who cares if the kernel is Linux if the rest of the OS is built to spy on you? And furthermore, the ChromeOS experience is nothing like the Linux desktop experience. Aside from running on the Linux kernel, the end user has zero exposure to what makes Linux, Linux!
Also why do people like you care what percent of people run Windows or Linux? It's not like more devices running the Linux kernel somehow translate to better support for the Linux desktop! I mean there are now more Android devices out there then Windows, but this has done absolutely nothing for the Linux desktop!
I could understand this "fight" for FOSS and Linux, 20 maybe even 10 years ago because the world needed more than one major OS, but times have changed, Linux isn't going anywhere and neither is Windows!

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

Let's be real: 99% of Windows revenue comes from companies who don't care about Android, ChromeOS or any other OS in their AD- fueled desktops.

Good thing that segment of employees is shrinking so they can lay off some of those fat ass point and click Windows sysadmins.

And when K12 and Android users get a job, they will also use.. a Windows desktop.

See, that's the point, a lot of them won't because email isn't how you do things now, and Microsoft doesn't do a whole lot more of value. They don't even do a great job on email. So many businesses running on Gmail now. You don't need to accept my prediction, it's already a thing, and it's getting bigger fast. Why do you think PC sales are tanking?

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

So you are comparing cell phones to computers? I wonder which one people buy more...

Seriously? Cell phones, or rather smart phones. Revenue for smartphones and tablets passed revenue for PCs/Laptops years ago.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

They have been, but in 2018, PC sales grew:

https://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3881812

Windows is the de facto king on the desktop and that is something Linux is NEVER going to displace. The desktop is to Linux what phones were to Windows... impenetrable. Linux on the backend, certainly, but that's as far as it goes.

Re:LOL

[thegarbz]

Yeah I know. We'll all be writing our dissertations on our phones shortly. Which kind of leads me to my point: You'll be doing it with Microsoft Office on Android.

Re:LOL

[vandamme]

What's "unknown"? ChromeOS?

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

"Unknown" and "other" both tend to be really big in these web stats. Identifying as googlebot to counter cloaking newsites is a thing, that would be mostly firefox meaning mostly Linux.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

ChromeOS may seem like a blip now, but as the younger generation who's growing up using it (I work in education) are going to start demanding it when they enter the workforce and the current workers begin to leave.

We replaced just over 58% of all Microsoft based Windows PC's with ChromeOS devices in less than 5 years and the demand for these devices by staff and students continues to grow yearly. All the top education software producers know they have to be ChromeOS compatible to keep their share of the market or lose to up and comers.

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

You'll be doing it with Microsoft Office on Android.

Only a complete idiot would pay for that garbage instead of using Libreoffice for free. But face the facts: how many dissertations did you write last week, or in your entire life?

Re:LOL

[Tough Love]

A single quarter blip does not a trend make. The home PC market continued its trip south and the biz segment will be following along shortly. These days, biz is about texting on your Android phone. How many laptop bags do you see in the wild? Be honest.

Re:LOL

[vandamme]

Just call me "Other", then! Ubuntu MATE, Mint, or Manjaro.

Its about software not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately the OS only matters in terms of what software it can run. Linux people seem to think the OS is so great and I would not argue with that at all. But sadly the applications offered in Linux are definitely a mixed bag of supported apps that vary greatly in comparing to a licensed software app on Windows. The trouble with many of these Linux/Windows issues is these entities are trying to use both together which doesn't always work well. Trying to run Windows on some devices and Linux on others, it just doesn't work.

Re:Its about software not the OS

[Tough Love]

Unfortunately the OS only matters in terms of what software it can run.

And Windows can't run Android apps, so it is doomed.

But not too soon I hope, because I quite like the cheap PC hardware scene for Linux installs. Who woulda thunkit, Windows hardware turns out to be more open for desktop Linux than Google machines.

Re:Its about software not the OS

[drinkypoo]

Who woulda thunkit, Windows hardware turns out to be more open for desktop Linux than Google machines.

Unless you get a google machine to which someone has ported libreboot...

Re:Its about software not the OS

[cowdung]

It all comes down to Microsoft Office. If you have it then people will want to use your machine. If you don't they'll rebel.

LibreOffice, OpenOffice, Google Docs don't cut it. People want MS Office. If they had that they wouldn't care if its Linux or AmigaOS or ProDos (well.. maybe they'd object to ProDos these days).

Re:Its about software not the OS

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of Android emulators available for windows if you absolutely must have an android app. The reality though is most apps are web based and windows still has more than 90% of the desktop marketshare and that is not changing anytime soon with no real competition out there.

Re:Its about software not the OS

[Tough Love]

It all comes down to Microsoft Office. If you have it then people will want to use your machine.

The 90's called and wants you back. Most people don't give a crap what they write their text on, most people don't even write documents like the old days. It's all instant messages and video chat now. You retired or something?

Re:Its about software not the OS

[Tough Love]

The reality though is most apps are web based and windows still has more than 90% of the desktop marketshare and that is not changing anytime soon with no real competition out there.

Microsoft is indeed hanging onto its illegally gotten share of the PC market but the PC market is shrinking fast, didn't get the memo?

Re:Its about software not the OS

[fyzikapan]

Can you tell me how I can get my company to accept and follow policies that were only discussed via instant messages and never actually typed up into a formal document? "We had a video chat about it" isn't going to fly when the auditors come knocking. "Oh we skyped and concluded that there was no bias in the model, but we have no documentation" seems unlikely to be a satisfactory answer.

Your idiotic suggestion doesn't really scale past a handful of people.

Re:Its about software not the OS

[Tough Love]

Can you tell me how I can get my company to accept and follow policies that were only discussed via instant messages and never actually typed up into a formal document?

That mostly happens on the web now, not in a word processor. And what does "formal document" mean? Offset printed on legal size sheets, impressed with the corporate seal? Get with it.

Re:Admit it snowflakes:

[Anonymous Coward]

Da Comrade! Linux is suck!

I have for 20 years

[aepervius]

I have dealt with German bureaucracy for more than 20 years now. They are way better than most bureaucracy around the world. And they do indeed get shit done, the problem is that they are stickler for rules, and many people dislike that and feel it is a waste of time. No offense but you seem to belong to that category...

Re:I have for 20 years

[Anonymous Coward]

I have dealt with German bureaucracy for more than 20 years now. They are way better than most bureaucracy around the world.

So you've dealt with German bureaucracy for over 20 years; what experience do you have in other parts of the world?

None? Didn't think so. Shut the fuck up before Merkel dons her double ended immigrant dildo and assrapes you, cuck.

Re:I have for 20 years

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. For example, when it comes to running a holocaust efficiently, and keeping the concentration camps fueled with people and poison gas, no one has done it better than the Germans, either before or since. The Germans built a very efficient rail system that was always on time "delivering the goods" needed for the final solution. Whether you agree or disagree with the politics of it, the pure technical skill and ability to conduct such an operation is indeed admirable. When they set their minds to it, the Germans realy can get things done.

Re:I have for 20 years

[Kjella]

And they do indeed get shit done, the problem is that they are stickler for rules, and many people dislike that and feel it is a waste of time.

Rules as such are okay, the problem is when you've painted yourself into a corner nobody's the slightest bit flexible or helpful on how to get out of there. It could be because you've missed or misunderstood something, didn't understand the dependencies or somehow did it wrong. In other countries I've had some success with "Well maybe this wasn't the right way but this is where I am now so what can I do from here?" and get a useful answer. Germans like to reply "You should have..." and okay, I should have. But that doesn't help me right now...

Re:I have for 20 years

[Calydor]

No, the problem is EXACTLY that they are a stickler for rules rather than getting things done. There is no flexibility, no grey area in which things get done unless the rules specifically allow it.

Let me give you a very recent example. A year ago I had eye surgery to get a cornea transplant, and to help the cornea attach and not be rejected I'm taking a series of different medications and eye drops. Monday of this week I went to my doctor to refill my prescription for my eye drops only to find out he's on vacation until the second week of August. Ouch, not smart, and yes I should have paid attention to his vacation schedule.

I had the great idea of sending an email to the hospital that did the surgery and where I go for checkups every few months, asking them to write me a prescription just this once.

They refused. Why? Because I hadn't been there this quarter and to do ANYTHING for me they need a new referral from my doctor.

The doctor that's on vacation.

HOW is that getting shit done? They refused to get me the eye drops that are required to help my eye heal because of bureaucracy.

Re:I have for 20 years

[Anonymous Coward]

How is the French bureaucracy by comparison? I have heard suggestions.. Being stickler for rules in Europe means following the law. "Getting shit done" by ignoring rules means just getting into trouble with the authorities and the public, and delaying any project that needs to get done.

Re:I have for 20 years

[thegarbz]

There's no problem with sticking to rules. The problem is the formation and design of the rules in the first place. The Dutch are good at sticking to rules too, however the rules don't actually get in the way of progress.

In Germany specifically sticking to the rules IS a waste of time and the rules result in very little benefit other than to keep the bureaucratic wheel turning and people employed. Japan has a similar culture and set of rules.

No. Linux isn't always an option.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't be this clueless.

Seriously, there are 10,000+ applications that are only written for Windows. Many have HW drivers which also only work on Windows.

My boss asked, no, he begged, me to find a way to swap in Linux over Windows for our 25K technicians. Keeping those laptops patched was killing us. So I got a list of the main 10 tools the technicians ran and started looking for alternatives that could work under Linux. I contacted the current vendors to get pricing for Linux ports of the software and drivers. These laptops are used to troubleshoot telecom equipment over serial connections. Each has a proprietary interface - the equipment, not the laptops. We had over $250M into the systems, back-ends, laptops, and all the software involved from mainframes to HP-UX to Windows servers to the laptops. That doesn't include the $billions for the equipment near your office or house or down the street or in COs. Adding 1 new interface between existing systems on the current OSes was $150K - this is something that would take 3 people less than a month of effort to complete, test, fully QA and document (I used to write enterprise software). We were paying MSFT about $5M/yr for licenses for those employees. Yes, it sucked, but changing to Linux was going to be $200+M and since we would be the first to make the migration, others telecom companies around the world would get lower prices, but not us. Basically, if you have phone service, DSL, fibre, ATM, metro ethernet, or almost any other data service, these are the guys who physically install the equipment and test to ensure it is all working perfectly.

No. Linux isn't always an option.

BTW, I'm 95% Linux and have been since 2007. For me, there are 4 applications for which I still need Windows. Video editing, stock investing, taxes, and free TV schedule data. The other 500+ things are all Linux solved. The Linux alternative for video editing is getting close, but not there yet. TV schedule data is $25/yr, no legal alternative exists. Taxes can be done online, but my stock investment technical analysis tool only runs on Windows. It doesn't run under WINE. For the amount of money that program has made me over the decades, $100/yr for Windows isn't an issue. I'm running it on a free Win7 install that MSFT gave away during a launch party. ;)

Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry I cant help you right now my computer is updating.

13 000 points of entry for NSA

[Anonymous Coward]

you've already read in the NSA and CIA leaks how the U.S. talks of you as an ally, but still breaches and sabotages your networks.

Now, with your new 13 000 Windows machines, you make it even easier for them to get inside, and hoover up sensitive data.

Someone in the German government has been greased well to make this stupid decision...

Potentially the loss of a Golden Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

I was ecstatic when Munich reached out for GNU/Linux. What does this latest news portend, and what does it indicate about the state of the World and of the Free Software Community?

Questions:
    What went wrong?
    What went right?
    In what way might the pathway have been cleared to make this work in Munich?
    Is this part of the political landscape of 2018?
    Is the Free Software / Open Source community responding to and meeting opportunities, or resting on the laurels.

For my part, as a User, I was thrilled, but did not think about that this end was inevitable. Or was it?

Adequate support infrastructure: could it have made a difference?

Is the Free Software world paralyzed under attack from the proprietary software world?

Skype does exist and work on GNU/Linux. Libre Office can do the job. Software issues are multitudinous: some good solutions exist that require a change of mindset. Some exists that works just like the proprietary models that they are meant to replace.

This raises more questions that can possibly be answered at this point.

A terrible day.

Shame-When merit meets ideology.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because ideology doesn't put food on the table, and most Linux adoption is based upon ideology, and not if it's actually the right tool for the job.

Re:Shame-When merit meets ideology.

[nukenerd]

most Linux adoption is based upon ideology

Most Windows adoption is based on inertia and sales pressure.

Which state?

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

Which state would switch FROM a version of GNU/Linux to MS WINDOWS of all things... Would that be the state of Dumkopf Obersheiß? Have they never heard of oh, I dunno, any other distro of Linux? Does SUSE not have an updated version they could update or upgrade to? Is it such a rich state that they have money coming out of their ears that they can afford to throw it away giving more money to Microsoft? Was der geliteral Fuckenstein?

Interesting appeal.

[Anonymous Coward]

No it wouldn't for the simple reason that what appeals to you, emotion or otherwise doesn't appeal to others.

Eavesdrop Barnacles

[Anonymous Coward]

"Considering that we have a "magic switch" for known targeted systems, then we would simply tell the OS, via Microsoft, to turn it on and send us data, via Microsoft. FOR FREE. Now that's a deal at any price." Transcript from recording. June 28, 2018, Baltimore, Maryland.

In Soviet Russia...

[Hallux-F-Sinister]

German State switches Windows to YOU. Or... um... something...
 
I'll... see myself out.

The numbers

[eneville]

They have 13,000 linux-based computers, but after paying €50m to migrate they'll deploy 29,000 windows computers. This is bonkers. There has got to be conflict of interest here somewhere.

outcome?

[nten]

I'm really curious how this turned out. I am all frustrated on your behalf ready to threaten a pharmacist to prevent your eyes from falling out. I hate rules and authority with an irrational passion. And yet I rarely change panes without signaling and become irritated at people who do. Maybe that is a politeness thing not a rule thing. I do like politeness. Right up to the point someone is quoting rules at me while my immune system is removing my new corneas.

Re:outcome?

[Calydor]

It turned out such that I am using some leftover eyedrops of a different brand I used to use before they swapped me to the current ones. Never got a reply to my second email asking if they understood the problem of telling me they couldn't help me while my doctor was away until they could get a note from the doctor who is away.

Rampant Fanboyism

[Anonymous Coward]

See, this is the thing. Linux advocates simply cannot accept that there are practical limits on the object of their affection.

Linux has done great, far better than I had ever expected. Frankly I expected Linux to blow apart in a frenzy of code forks a long, long time ago. Instead Linux has become a fantastic server OS that has become a lifeline and practical destination for the legacy Unix world. It also became the basis for most of the mobile OS world.

So, when even the most abject Linux fanboy understands the joke contained in "This really is the Year of Linux On The Desktop"! Yet they cannot understand why random business and professional entities might decide to abandon Linux on the Desktop?? It must be Tey Evul Micro$oft, paying bribes!

Your fanboyism betrays you. Give it a rest already. The cost of licenses and support is nothing compared to the cost of people's time. And that's what Linux costs you, time. Not likely you personally, you invested the time needed to become a Linux expert. I'm talking people's time as spread over an entire organization, thousands of people who have neither the time nor the interest in becoming a Linux expert.

These people aren't Windows experts either but Windows manages to work correctly 99% of the time for non-experts. It's also compatible with all those other business entities who also run Windows. And that's precisely the area that Linux is weakest at.

Your needs, your preferences, your objections aren't what is at play here. Can you understand that? That your needs, your preferences, your objections aren't important in these kinds of decisions?

Re:Rampant Fanboyism

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need all 13,000 people in the German tax office to be Linux experts. All you need is a small, competent team of Linux experts to maintain those workstations and the network they run on. Do you not understand the difference between using a computer at home and at work?

The users themselves could be complete fucking luddites who don't know their ass from the hole in the ground. Just give them some programs and a mouse to click around with and tell them to get to work like they would at any other job with a computer. What, do you really think every single one of those tax monkeys all possess sysadmin-level knowledge of Windows? Of course they don't. They don't need to.

FAIL.

[sproketboy]

HAHAHHAHA

Your Future

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen the future, and it runs on Slackware 95â.

That will be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is already a lemon, prone to not wanting to work with other windows versions, the network discovery can lead to ambiguous errors specially with sharedprinters and each terminal abusing network connections.

Their IT tech people will be delighted... Just like when we started migrating from Windows 8 to Windows 10... I'm still cursing half of the time.

The comments should be entertaining...

[HerculesMO]

I thought that people were over the "M$" as many folks have grown up in a different era but clearly, the old folks still haven't grown up at all yet. Tools are less important than business outcome and generally tends to favor Windows vs Linux. But hey, I guess the "M$" jokes or talk about how it costs money (so does losing time, by the way) is just a bit old considering I've been on this site for more than 20 years.

Remote Desktops

[meehawl]

healthcare require specific features in an EMR, and there may not be enough of a selection out there in that specialized field to allow for the luxury of selecting Linux,

I routinely use two of the larger EMRs, Epic and Cerner, at multiple sites and between different hospital groups. They all run as RDP/Citrix remote Windows sessions. I've run exactly the same sessions on a Linux machine. The underlying host OS is not that important.

Wow....

[Anonymous Coward]

God help them. Because they will need it. There's a reason why in AWS and Azure most servers have Linux running in those 'VMs'.

US Intel agencies thank you.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's certainly nice to know that every keystroke and every mouse move on the computers of the government in that part of Germany will be vacuumed-up and sent to servers at Microsoft. Windows, as the least secure operating system in the history of the planet, will make it easy for the NSA to grab all the data.

Name another operating system that comes with backdoors and key-and-mouse loggers built-in and already enabled by default. Any OS that touches the internet without the direct consent of the owner, or that sends anything without the owner seeing the content transmitted is by-definition completely untrustworthy and insecure.

No government or financial or medical entity on the planet should be running ANY operating system that routinely phones home or routinely snoops on its own users - these actions are designed-in vulnerabilities that provide the end user with absolutely no legitimate benefit.

In such case you can doctor hop

[aepervius]

"They refused. Why? Because I hadn't been there this quarter and to do ANYTHING for me they need a new referral from my doctor."

Actually no they can't do anything if it is not an emergency/enduring disease, because first you have to be referred by A doctor. They count as specialist and before you go to a specialist baring emergency & chronicle disease, you have to got to a doctor. This actually avoid abuses and flooding specialist when not needed. But note that I said *a* doctor. Not *your* doctor. Doctor hoping is not illegal, and if you have a previous prescription and a good reason (e.g. anti rejection drug, or need a referral for a previous operation) and your doc is in holiday, then they won't bat an eye to do you a referral. I know that because I have done it more than once during doctor holidays.

And yes you can directly go to a specialist in case of emergency or chronicle disease. The fact you are neither , and you could get an easy referral by another doc is WHY they did not accept you.

Re:In such case you can doctor hop

[Calydor]

And thus you prove the point that is being made - that the Rules are more important than Getting Shit Done.

This is not some random hospital I contacted. This is a hospital where I have a current treatment going, but because the last time I was there was in April they refuse to write ONE prescription in order to Get Shit Done.

Crime rates have fallen, despite immigration

[Anonymous Coward]

And the crime rate amongst immigrants is lower than the average. So I guess it's all the locals who whine about immigration that are doing the raping and killing and stealing, so that they can blame it on the nig nogs.
Got something to get off your chest and confess to, timmeh?

It tells us how money talks in capitalism.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's all.

Rather migrate your apps cloud/app

[Anonymous Coward]

Why on God's earth you still keep relying on native apps?
It would make more sense to migrate your native apps to a, internal/external cloud web based application then it doesn't matter anymore which OS you're running, ....

Linux Gaming isn't Dead

[Anonymous Coward]

https://steamdb.info/linux/

Nobody knows this stuff when talking about Linux gaming, geez. No AAAs? Not like Blizzard, Bethesda, EA and Ubisoft will budge on that one, so that does still suck ass. (Unlike some Square Enix titles, surprisingly.)

You can't tell me that people *only* spend money on AAAs and don't ultimately see gaming with many indies instead as just more money-saving (less need to upgrade your hardware, usually less bad behaviour like microtransactions and such).

"But muh popular..." yeah, no. Just... why would someone gaming on Linux give a fuck about the most popular thing, full stop? Gaming on Linux is a bit of a sacrifice, I'll admit that up-front, but don't say it's not fighting in this arena. You don't game on Linux *just* to game on Linux, let me put it that way.

It does take a certain kind of person to do be willing to do it, though.

Neal Stephenson vindicated

[biggaijin]

In "In the Beginning was the Command Line", Neal Stephenson says that while people can get Linux -- a tank that will go anywhere and do anything -- free, many often opt to purchase Windows -- a clunky station wagon that leaks oil, spends a lot of time in the shop, and is expensive -- instead. The reason for this is that all their neighbors have the leaky station wagon already and they are afraid of being different, the same reason that the German government seems to be using.

It was a shitty roll out

[schweini]

I saw the horrendously badly planned roll out some parts of the german government did, and I blame the process.
A major problem was that many small purpose made pieces of software (passport printer drivers, biometric software, whatever) were Windows only. So many desks had a linux and a windows PC on them, and other silly things like that.
They should have mandated that all software be either cross-platform, or web-based, first. Then afterwards make the switch.

Wouldn't it be easier...

[martinfb]

Wouldn't it be easier, and cheaper, to migrate, and maintain, the field workers to Linux?

Windows 10? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

So what happens when a significant number of those new Windows desktops decide to spontaneously update themselves during the middle of working hours? Not only does this cause issues for users, it swamps the network and your operations crawl to a halt.

Wounderful

[Anonymous Coward]

People with me can move to Germany to do Admin on the Window PCs.
* Lets migrate Governments from Windows to Linux.
Linux Benefits:
1. Cheaper on a 10 year road map
2. Linux has better Security
3. The Linux Distribution is supported more than 10 years. ie check with Red Hat, SUSE, Ubuntu
4. A lower possibility that employees will hack the computers and steel data.
5. Governments running Linux creates local jobs.

Wrong forum! Piss off Nazi!

[Anonymous Coward]

This should be easy. The German state has become quite the expert on migration as of late. Let's just hope no-one gets raped in the process.

This forum is not the so called "Reichsparteitag" for A{soziale}f{uer}D{eutschland}. The AfD is a faschist party from Germany.

@all: Some information about AfD: https://www.ft.com/content/348a1bce-9000-11e8-b639-7680cedcc421

Siamo tutti antifascisti!