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Trump Tells Apple To Make Products In the US To Avoid China Tariffs (thehill.com)
hackingbear writes: President Trump acknowledged in a tweet that "Apple prices may increase because of the massive Tariffs we may be imposing on China," but suggested the issue was not with the tariffs themselves. "There is an easy solution where there would be ZERO tax, and indeed a tax incentive. Make your products in the United States instead of China. Start building new plants now," Trump wrote. The U.S. is threatening to impose 25% tariffs on all $500 billion worth of Chinese imports over issues such as intellectual property theft.
While Apple et al are still making their products in China, Trump didn't offer Apple a place to find the millions of laborers needed to make their products, given that the official unemployment rate is at a historic low of 3.9%. Manufacturers also need to compete in the labor market with garbage companies who need to find American laborers willing to recycle their own trash -- a job once imposed upon China as a condition to enter the World Trade Organization and enjoy advantageous tariff rates. China is gracefully giving back those jobs as the U.S. is complaining of unfair trades.
While Apple et al are still making their products in China, Trump didn't offer Apple a place to find the millions of laborers needed to make their products, given that the official unemployment rate is at a historic low of 3.9%. Manufacturers also need to compete in the labor market with garbage companies who need to find American laborers willing to recycle their own trash -- a job once imposed upon China as a condition to enter the World Trade Organization and enjoy advantageous tariff rates. China is gracefully giving back those jobs as the U.S. is complaining of unfair trades.
Isn't there an 800$ tax/duty etc free limit on importing items from abroad? If they buy their iPhones from Canada, and the cost is under $800 US...
Some electronics require rare earth materials to manufacture, which currently are sources from China or other countries. Those have export restrictions from China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... , and they ask the products to be manufactured there.
US now asks products to be manufactured here, and will add additional taxes (tariffs) if this request is not complied with.
So Apple and other manufacturers are split between two bad choices. They will have to weigh which one is less worse, and go in that direction. In all cases it will most likely be the consumers that suffer.
On paper we're at full unemployment. But funny enough there's a ton of resentment around not having jobs in America. Of course, everyone knows the unemployment stats are nonsense. But we act like they're not.
This leads to some crazy political theater. For one thing we've got economists trying to come up with excuses about why wages aren't climbing despite "full" employment. And now we've got Trump needing to explain to businesses where they'll get workers needed to run factories when on paper those workers already have jobs. I mean, I suppose Trump could argue that he'll do mass immigration. I'm sure that'll go over swell at his monthly rallies.
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This happened before in Europe.
In the early 80s it was a three way fight for home video recording. You had VHS, Betamax and the Phillips Video 2000 system. The first two were all Japanese machines, the latter were made by Phillips in Europe.
The Phillips format was technically great. But it came third in that race. Philips got the EEC (precursor to the EU) to put massive tariffs on Japanese machines to make them cost the same as Phipps' ones, but all that did was increase profit margins for Japanese companies and relieve price pressure on their manufacturing.
In the end Phillips started selling VHS machines, but got screwed by their own tariffs because they had to buy the mechanism in from Matsushita who made it in Japan.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Why United States?
Apple prices may increase because of the massive Tariffs we may be imposing on China - but there is an easy solution where there would be ZERO tax, and indeed a tax incentive. Make your products in the United States instead of China. Start building new plants now. Exciting! #MAGA
Good lordy Trump is such a moron.
Does he truly not realize that consumer prices will rise with either model?
1) Build in China with tariffs: Consumer prices increase.
2) Build in the USA with American wages. Consumer prices increase.
Amazing how Trump has transformed the Republican party into being everything they used to be against.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
C.I.A. N I G G E R S at HAARP using their megawatt HF neuro-transponder in a vile effort to effect the rise of the Antichrist and to erase the world's remaining 1.44MB floppy disks.
You know, that's actually pretty darn funny.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I doubt that they need that many. In the U.S., a million Chinese laborers become 999,000 robots and 1,000 robot technicians.
Just get ready for $8000 iPhones.
The 3.9% reported are just those unemployed and on benefits, who are not enrolled in any market programs.
Also, Apple will never under any circumstances accept making loads of money instead of the shitloads of money they make now, by absorbing some of the costs for manufacturing in the U.S.
Also, there would be a huge issue of build quality. China are the definite masters of manufacturing, and with the size of their manufacturing plants and decades of experience, it would cost tens of billions and perhaps a whole decade of work to achieve the same in the U.S., that's how far ahead China is when it comes to manufacturing.
every 2 years or so does not count. Since it mostly goes to increase their crazy high profit margin. Don't get me wrong I am all for profit margins. But to point at the tariffs and say that is the problem that will cause higher prices is a bit bold. The prices will go up no matter what. TBH I don't think it will affect Apple much their market will sacrifice most anything to have the latest greatest Apple device/gadget and I say good for Apple.
;)
As I sit here with my old mobile phone that does everything I want. It is all about choice and needs.
Just my 2 cents
given that the official unemployment rate is at a historic low of 3.9%
No, no it isn't. The current U6 unemployment rate as of August 2018 is 7.40, and even that fails to count many people. Anyone who reports the U2 unemployment rate is repeating a blatant and willful lie, which makes them at best an accessory to that lie. Do your research.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Some resources are much more expensive and polluting to acquire than recycle. Also, much of recycling is about preventing running out of materials, where eventually all of it will be diffused into products, shredded to scraps and dug down in a landfill.
It's easier and cheaper to put used goods directly into recycling, than shredding them, dump them into a landfill, and then dig up said landfill and try to filter out all the materials before going back to recycling.
I was just going to suggest Trump supporters are unlikely to believe in recycling anyway LOL
In most cases, no. Recycle the very few materials where it makes economic sense. For the rest, stop pretending.
You're applying a 3rd world solution (labor) to a 1st world manufacturing problem. In USA you should be building with robots not laborers, and robots don't ask for wages.
Some may try to answer that it's too hard, or that robots cost too much, but that excuse doesn't fly. USA claims to be the leading technological nation and it's time to demonstrate that that's true. And if there's one thing that USA has in limitless supply it's cash, venture capital, and credit.
Use that skill and that mountain of money.
Sorry Trump, "Those jobs aren't coming back": https://www.nytimes.com/2012/0...
Even if the factories could be built here for a reasonable cost, even if the ecosystem of manufacturing suppliers could be recreated here, even if there were enough people looking for work, Americans would not want to take jobs working at such factories even at average factory wages.
Try to bring those jobs back here and welcome to $2000 iphones.
Because: facts. If you want to "believe", you're welcome to your religion and you may pay to recycle privately.
Finally, Trump told Apple what they needed to do. That was the problem with Apple, their management was totally clueless and had no idea what to do. They probably did not even have a meeting on the subject.
Now that Trump has finally spoken up and now they know what to do!
</sarcasm>
Since when do Apple or their users care about prices?
Twinstiq, game news
with the same very old of date hardware.
Chinese currency devalution = more dangerous. When U.S goods are sold there (if ever due to tarriffs CHINA places on them too) they are INSTANTLY f'd over that way also - think about it.
* E.G. - IF it sells for say, $100 in the USA, it SHOULD be sold for MORE in China due to currency value differences to achieve the same profit levels & IS NOT...
APK
P.S.=> It's a TRICKY ONE & not immediately visible (the China way)... apk
Seems he wants everyone else to pay more for domestic labor than he does. Most people feel the same way - in theory they want to support American workers, in pratice they don't want to pay for it either. Can't have it both ways.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-hire-40-foreign-workers-mar-lago-1011011
it already is, and the greedy are to blame for it. go unfettered capitalist greed. this is what happens when you don't regulate. consolidation. globalization.
I'd really stick it to the US. Just shut down all exports to the US, pending trade talks. We would really feel that.
Trump is playing a very dangerous game with the dragon.
no U R.
Isn't a tariff just a tax you impose on goods as they enter your country? Wasn't the problem with the Japanese electronics that they were cheaper?
Also, as I recall those tariffs were pretty reasonable. The Japanese gov't was heavily subsidizing it's electronic industry to target foreign industries. The tariffs were in response to that. The reason Japan still came out on top, at least for a lot of American electronics (sorry, I'm a Yank) is the American stuff was kind of crap. And American cars were laughably bad at the time.
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Sure, if you pay close attention to what they're doing (tariffs, imposing regulations on states to protect corporations in defiance of the 10th amendment, record H1-B labor imports, etc, etc). But if you don't care about policy (or only care about the two big wedge issues, gun control and abortion) they're still on point. They still use rhetoric of low taxes & small government.
The trouble is swing voters. Swing voters don't usually pay attention to policy, they pay attention to how the candidate makes them feel. That's why the beer poll exists and why it's damn near impossible to win without it. And it's why we got Trump (well, that an Hilary was the worst campaigner in human history).
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Yes. Trump supporters have their own alternate facts also.
Trump didn't offer Apple a place to find the millions of laborers needed to make their products, given that the official unemployment rate is at a historic low of 3.9%.
Are you really arguing that a) it takes literally "millions" of workers to produce cellphones, and b) we can't bring manufacturing jobs back to America because we lack "millions" of workers?
Perhaps without an infinitely large minimal wage-earning workforce, Apple might choose to change it's manufacturing process to leverage more automation? Just a thought.
Ken
OUTSOURCE THE PRESIDENCY
Your explanation is incorrect , or at least this is not what hapenned. Tarif do not "increase profit" for manufacturer, as the tarif is paid on the importer side and directly to the governement. In fact manufacturer only sell the same price as before. If you export a 10$ widget and somebody put a tarif on 50% in the US, what it means is that you STILL sell it at 10$, but the tax import office take 5$ in addition from the importer when the goods are declared. Thus a tarif could not have helped manufacturer increase profit.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
In most cases, no. Recycle the very few materials where it makes economic sense. For the rest, stop pretending.
Like beer cans. Something Trump supporters should be intimately familiar with.
https://www.beveragedaily.com/...
yeah! Dump it all on the lawn at the Whitehouse. Trump is so brilliant, he can deal with our shit.
Oh wait, he'll just send it to some other shit hole and claim MAGA.
Production plants don't spring up overnight... even if Apple were to do this, by the time the production plants in the USA were ready, consumer demand for Apple products would have long since completely acclimated to the increased cost a, and the price wouldn't suddenly go back down just because they are building in the USA... given that the USA does not have the ability to produce some things as cheaply as China can, it is unlikely that even if they COULD move production to America overnight, prices would still probably not go down (and may very well increase).
Trump's apparent objective to make America great at everything while other countries will continue to specialize will result in the USA dividing its own resources too finely across too many industries to continue to be the best at anything.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
It took decades to destroy the US electronics manufacturing industry. The workers in it were high school grads. Today, they work at Burger King. It would take at least a decade to build a functioning consumer electronics industry.
What is lacking is not labor, but knowhow. Knowhow is the stuff that is not in books or journals, but resides in the heads of people who know how to actually build stuff. It can take decades to build knowhow, and that's exactly what the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Taiwanese have done, at the expense of the US. Lack of knowhow is why the US is currently incapable of building the Saturn V rocket, despite having all the documents ("blueprints") that specified it.
Rare earths are only a temporary problem. Rare earths are not rare, but you can't build a mine overnight.
The real problem with Trump tariffs is that they were done without thought about the strategy of rebuilding those industries. If the industries cannot be rebuilt, then all the tariffs do is increase costs.
Pretty much everything that Trump has done, without approval from Congress, is going to get undone once he's out. So every company is just going to keep things in place, because it would be suicidal to invest in a move, only to have the reason for doing so undone before the move is finished.
Keep telling ordinary Americans that you hate them and hold them in contempt.
... American people have more money to buy at the increased prices!
This is why high wages are GOOD for "the economy" or rather: the leeching fatcats who sit on their asses all day, commandeering people around, and otherwise doing fuck-all themselves.
It means people have more money to buy shit.
In the end, it does not differ if the wages are low or high, for "the economy".
But it matters for the employees and workers!
Of course Trump is a moron. And his plan is utterly retarded. ... maybe don't be exactly as stupid in the same comment?
But if you call somebody stupid,
https://www.plasticpollutionco...
Recycling is not all about money, it's also about conserving the finite supply of raw materials.
The raw materials deplete steadily, regardless of what they're sold for, which can be difficult to wrap your head around, and so "economic sense" doesn't always factor into recycling.
There’s never been a prolonged shortage of raw materials. And every time someone predicts such a shortage, they end up being laughably wrong.
On paper we're at full unemployment. But funny enough there's a ton of resentment around not having jobs in America. Of course, everyone knows the unemployment stats are nonsense. But we act like they're not.
Labor stats aren't nonsense. They are nonsense when used improperly, which is what most politicians do.
For one thing we've got economists trying to come up with excuses about why wages aren't climbing despite "full" employment.
Because of inflation. Inflation is growing faster than wages. The federal reserve has been allergic to raising interest rates to combat inflation and this is the result. It's not an excuse, it's a reason.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Why? What about how the "ordinary Americans" who you allegedly support scream their rancor towards those they despise such as "libruls" and "darkies" and "fags" and more?
Oh wait, wait, I hear some crickets.
Keep telling ordinary Americans that you hate them and hold them in contempt.
I'm Canadian, but I have friends and relatives in the US, most of whom are nice normal people. We don't know how you ended up with Bozo the Clown for your president, but he is an embarrassment to your country in pretty much the entire rest of the world. Just sayin.
You know, that could be a rare case where outsourcing actually improves the product.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Leave that overpriced shit on the shelf and support real software developers!
Go fuck yourself, dipshit.
Their products have been garbage for a decade at this point and they're holding back progress just like Microsoft 20 years ago so Wall Street can skim off the crème of retarded consumers suffering. What will this trillion dollar company do? What a difficult decision. What if they go out of business floundering around in the political arena instead of addressing their logistics? What if I care?
There were accusations of dumping. Some argue that it was really just the Japanese managing to cost reduce faster than everyone else. Japanese systems of the day do show some interesting cost savings that Philips machines didn't... Even the Philips tapes had big brass rollers in them, when VHS and Beta had both adopted an all plastic design.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
We don't know how you ended up with Bozo the Clown for your president...
The media went all in to elect Hillary. They promoted Trump and changed the subject to Trump every time anyone talked about anything else during the campaign. They did this to ensure Hillary's opponent would be Trump, because they were sure Hillary could beat Trump. But they didn't understand that Hillary is terrible — really, really terrible in many different ways. Americans are also tired of being lectured to by people who hold them in contempt. Long story short, Trump won, Hillary lost. Hope that helps.
...but he is an embarrassment to your country in pretty much the entire rest of the world.
Cosmopolitan vanity has negative practical value. There's zero reason to believe that foreigners' opinion of the US matters at all, and Americans who court foreign favor are the ones would should really be embarrassed.
Keep telling ordinary Americans you hate them.
Phillips Video 2000 system
I know a group of people who just finished watching a popular(?) YouTube creator's video.. :)
The ones with brass rollers still work.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
If only there was a way to avoid the political risk of having your customers vote in politicians that want to tax your imports?
Trump is just negotiating. The thing you have to understand with Trump (that 80% of the public don't get) is that 80% of his statements that get hyped in the dumb media as "controversial" are actually just part of him negotiating ...
Um. No. That's some percentage of his controversial statements ALSO happen to be part of posturing for negotiating, but it's nowhere near 80% of his "controversial" statements.
His statement on Apple wasn't complicated or nuanced, and had to do with domestic politics more than trade negotiations. You don't go bust in domestic politics by telling companies to build in America, so he said "build in America!" because it will appeal to voters. The statement doesn't make any sense intellectually (Obviously Apple's prices are not going to go down as a result of it moving to a more expensive place to produce goods), it doesn't matter in terms of negotiations (China knows Apple isn't going to move manufacturing to the US just because of a President's tweet), and it's really just there to make a couple of people like the tweet and say how much sense it makes to one another.
Some of those people are good people who are just busy and like the idea of buying American without it being a dig on another country. Others are not and should just smile and nod and wander out of the gene pool. But the tweet is clearly about manipulating these groups, not about reality.
The Senior Executive Service is just the tool of Big Money and Big Globalists (which is mostly the same).
Research who founded Google, where they came from. The short version is: they were part of the Moscow elite, but were not allowed to screw Russia. So they moved to America and now try to screw America. For example, they bought Motorola and then shipped all the jobs to China.
Of course Google wants tax-free imports of cheap Chinese phones, because that enables fantastic profits for Google. They do not care about US workers losing their jobs in US phone factories. All they care ís their personal megalomanic POWER.
...a bankster operative. They and their friends Brin and Page make Gazillions from shipping US jobs, US technologies to China.
Of course they will yell and scream if Trump stops their get rich quick schemes.
Agree that Hillary was a pretty awful candidate. Electing Trump instead was not a "look how smart we are" moment though.
As for foreigners, America used to have lots of friends in the world. Now you have people who tolerate you out of necessity.
I'm sure that will recover in time once you have a normal person in charge again though.
The only place these materials come from are China and they cornered the market.
So we should roll over and yield to any Chinese demand and/or policy.
NOT.
GO TRUMP !
https://www.breitbart.com/
PS: Rare earths occur all over the world.
...would be proud of the Chicoms. They cornered the market for metals and tried to profit from it.
So ?
Support Trump in stopping the transfer of wealth to China !
"Don't you dare to touch our hundreds of billions of profit, we are AAPL and GOOG !" also
"We stash these profits in tax havens, because we have megalomanic traits".
In other words: Trump is 100% right to stop this nonsense.
Imagine how bad Apple profits would be hurt, if they could not operate on Chinese slave labour !
They would not make 100 billions a year, but just 35 billions !!!
How incredibly bad.
Agree that Hillary was a pretty awful candidate. Electing Trump instead was not a "look how smart we are" moment though.
Vanity again. The other girls in my middle school class can't even!
Meanwhile, economy is going great, Americans have jobs and a reason to feel good about their economic prospects for the first time in 10 years.
As for foreigners, America used to have lots of friends in the world. Now you have people who tolerate you out of necessity.
I'm sure that will recover in time once you have a normal person in charge again though.
Yeah. I don't care. No one else in the US should care either. Foreign countries claim friendship or don't, and they pursue their own agendas. They'll never choose what's good for the US over what's good for their own people — and they shouldn't.
Are diplomatic smiles genuine or forced? What difference does it make? None.
2 different issues. As to the second, thank you China. Now nations need to stop ALL recycling from going to China, while we focus on rebuilding our local industry.
As to the trump tariffs, China continues to claim they are undeveloped except when it helps them. Then they call themselves developed.
And in light of being second largest economy with more than 10% tariffs, it makes sense for trump, and the west, to do this.
It is also time to stop giving China the undeveloped nation mail rate.
I'm Canadian, but I have friends and relatives in the US, most of whom are nice normal people. We don't know how you ended up with Bozo the Clown for your president, but he is an embarrassment to your country in pretty much the entire rest of the world. Just sayin.
When you have a clown vs a crazy aunt... easy enough to understand.
Obama sitting next to Steve Jobs at a meeting asked "when are the jobs coming back", referring to the million Foxconn workers. Jobs responded, "never, that ship sailed". China has no labor laws. Just prior to the release of the phone 4, a flaw was found the required every single phone unboxed, fixed and reboxed . To make the marketing date all "employees" (slaves?) were forced to work round the clock to fix every single device so Apple could make the marking date. Also, Foxconn has workers as young as 14 chained to desks, workers live in "barracks", and conditions are so grueling, Foxconn installed nets around it's buildings to catch suicide jumpers. Next time you love your little icrap gadget, think about kids chained to their desks so you can blissfully listing with a your ibuds connected. No way any US based company could get away this.
The summary seems to imply that making an iPhone would require millions of factory workers. Millions? That seems a bit of a stretch just to build a phone. I'm sure there are lots of people involved in making the various components, but I find it difficult to believe the number is in the millions. That would require a whole city of people who do nothing but work in iPhone factories.
They are also out of business.
It would cost Apple more to make the iPhone in the US.
Probably twice as much, if not more.
Now, most of the iPhone cost is nothing but profit, so they could in theory absorb it but... why would they? If they could absorb it, they'd own the entire phone market by now by just cutting their ridiculous phone prices.
They'd also have a couple of years of utter mayhem as they built factories, hired workers, moved stock and parts, etc etc.
Much as I hate Apple, it's a stupid idea. The reason that companies *don't* already do everything themselves in the US (or most of the first-world nations) is because it's just too expensive for them to do so. And people likely wouldn't pay the prices they'd have to charge, or their shareholders would revolt at suddenly cutting their (stupendous, sickening) profit in half overnight.
Trump doesn't get economics at all. And he certainly doesn't get trade.
Sure, Apple moving back gives you taxes and jobs. And then China will have no money from you, less incentive to be favourable in their trades, more expensive for everything you DO need them for (which is an awful lot, not least landfilling those phones once they're dead).
And if they were to, say, have a huge electronics manufacturing industry, they could make your life hell overnight, not least by making you source and produce every chip from somewhere else, but also having to compete against their phones that do more for less money. With almost no effort at all.
And the USA is part of the globe. No reason why we have to burn all kinds of dinosaurs to send crap from China around the world. That's expensive too.
Figure it out, Tim Cook, and I might buy more of your sealed non-upgradable non-recyclable crap.
Its a company the tech industry is better off without.
Meanwhile, economy is going great, Americans have jobs and a reason to feel good about their economic prospects for the first time in 10 years.
That is true in most places. The long recovery from 2008 is not a Trump exclusive
They'll never choose what's good for the US over what's good for their own people
Those are not necessarily mutually exclusive things. Or didn't use to be anyway.
Where do you think that they get the parts to build the iPhone, you moron? From the US? They get them from all over the world - including China. Were Apple to build its iPhones in the US, it would still have to pay the tariffs that you buffoon have imposed. Are you learning, you ridiculous ignoramus?
3% unemployment rate? Let's assume that the adult working force is ~150M. 1% of that is 1.5M. so about 4.5M people in the USA are unemployed. Then we could also include the under-employed people, which hovers about 12% of the the beginning of this year. There's another ~18M people that could be useful.
Much as I dislike Trump, he didn't NEED to offer anything regarding where to find the people needed - we have them in one form or another. THE PEOPLE need to open their eyes and start demanding things from their elected representatives.
I'm skeptical that there is a labor shortage. Simple supply and demand rules of economics tells us that if there is a labor shortage, then the price of labor should increase.
The thing is, the real world is anything but simple. The last 40 years has seen a major consolidation in the number of employers (all those corporate mergers justified by saving money on labor costs) along with bullshit like non-compete clauses and no-poaching agreements for even lowly fast-food jobs.
The end result is increasing monopoly power for employers, allowing them to hold down wage growth independent of any changes in the labor market.
They promoted Trump and changed the subject to Trump every time anyone talked about anything else during the campaign. They did this to ensure Hillary's opponent would be Trump, because they were sure Hillary could beat Trump.
Or... and stay with me here, they promoted trump because as the first reality show candidate all the drama and over-the-top absurdity made them tons of money. As Les Moonves famously said, "It May Not Be Good for America, but It's Damn Good for CBS"
Philips got the EEC (precursor to the EU) to put massive tariffs on Japanese machines to make them cost the same as Phipps' ones, but all that did was increase profit margins for Japanese companies and relieve price pressure on their manufacturing.
That's not how tariffs work. They are taxes, paid to the state by customers, not to the manufacturers.
Meanwhile, economy is going great, Americans have jobs and a reason to feel good about their economic prospects for the first time in 10 years.
That is true in most places. The long recovery from 2008 is not a Trump exclusive
The improvement steepened though. And that's versus the literal end-of-the-world predictions from the cosmopolitan vanity people.
Also the massive decline in unions at the behest of billionaires running astroturf PR campaigns against them.
The Clinton (Bill) administration and the later Obama administration catered to the environmental activists in their party and used the executive powers of the presidency to put vast swaths of land in the US off-limits for resource extraction. Both administrations created wildlife refuges right on top of some of the best sources of rare earth minerals in the world (The US actually has bigger reserves than China, but most are now off-limits). Then they additionally put in place insane environmental regs that make it effectively illegal to bury dirt. I'm being admittedly simple here, and somebody will ask "illegal to bury dirt?" so here's what I mean:
Under Clinton and Obama era rules (still in effect, and which the press howls about if anybody tries to change) If a person or company digs up a resource and extracts what he wants and puts back the leftovers, he can be in big trouble if the material he puts back is toxic. Sounds good right? Only to a simple minded moron. If you dig up a ton of dirt, keep a particular mineral, and then put back the rest, and if the material you put back contains lead (which was naturally there in the first place - you're PUTTING IT BACK WHERE YOU FOUND IT) you become guilty of polluting by improperly disposing of lead. This applies to many other things as well like thorium.
The stupid idiots who think these "green" policies are "saving the planet" are so seriously delusional they may be incurable. These policies do NOTHING to improve the environment - they simply move the middle class jobs from the US where the regulatory insanity has been imposed to places like China where no such policies exist, and make the USA vulnerable to economic blackmail. The same number of tons of materials are extracted and used - but it's done in places with even lower environmental standards, and the jobs are lost in the USA.
It's only Bush-era RINOs who claim a core value of the Republican party is "free trade" and no tariffs.
The federal government of the USA was entirely funded by tariffs on foreign materials and products (NO federal income taxes on the public) for its first century - it's the traditional Constitutional American way.
Abraham Lincoln was famously pro-tariff, as were most other Republican presidents. In the modern era, Ronald Reagan famously was for low or no tariffs and "free trade" but only between free peoples and allies, and only as long as they played fairly. Reagan famously slapped tariffs on various things like foreign steel and motorcycles to protect Americans from unfair actions abroad, and most-importantly: under Reagan it was illegal to shift high-tech manufacturing to places like the Soviet Union and communist China as a matter of national security.
It's only the Republicans who grew up (politically) post-Reagan under the Bushes/Romneys/McCains of the party who believe in selling-out the nation to China for the benefit of Wall Street investors with no concern for national security, and who believe in shifting all the burdens of government off of the backs of rich people who invest in outsourcing and onto the middle class workers who lose their jobs in manufacturing and need to become Wallmart greeters. These are the sort of "Republicans" who despise Trump and go on talk shows on MSNBC to scowl that Trump is "not presidential".
Hillary could have won and we'd have 1% growth that is revised down to .9%. uhh, I mean .8%.
Corporatism != Free Market
it just proves that you dont interact with people who work inside the US "lower" economy. like factory workers. if you actually knew what went on in US factories you would probably shit yourself. US factories do get away with a lot worse than that and you wont ever hear about it because nobody from the US media investigates that kind of thing anymore.
your speech reminded me of the type of things people said after the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in 1939.
He could not get the economy going and thus became the first modern American president to never manage a single year of even 3% growth. He and his administration then said that his 1.5% growth was "the new normal" and Obama made fun of then-candidate Trump by asking if Trump had a magic wand and telling voters that the manufacturing jobs were never coming back. Of course, now that some of the jobs have come back and Trump has nearly twice the economic growth rate Obama had (on average), Obama has given a new speech claiming responsibility for the Trump economy.
There is simply no reason why the US government must allow one of the richest companies on planet Earth to dodge paying taxes and use the foreign slave labor of a communist country, endangering American security - all on the claim that it cannot possible afford to pay a reasonable wage to American workers. If Apple cannot possibly manage this feat and remain profitable, then Tim Cook and his merry band of management morons are less competent at basic business than a mom-and-pop small business person in middle America who CAN be profitable with American workers.
It turns out that no amount of snark by a cocaine-snorting, pot smoking, basketball court punk (not a racial thing unless you're a bigot who thinks only blacks play basketball) whose only "productive" work before becoming an elected politician was "community organizing" and part-time teaching a subjective college class can substitute for a tough-minded, rough-edged, hard-charging business man with decades of experience in cutthroat business spanning all types of business cycles. Obama could not get the economy going for a simple reason - he was an incompetent lightweight who was only good at talking and who would have crumbled in an instant if he'd been opposed by ALL the media, the DOJ, the FBI, all the opposing party, and half of his own party. Obama never even had to face a tough question from a journalist - he mainly got questions like "what's your favorite color?" and "what do you find most enchanting about the White House?" and Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder called himself Obama's "wingman" as he shielded him from all investigations to the point of being held in contempt of congress for hiding documents.
You and your "ordinary Americans" of which you speak have directly harmed me and my friends and my peers. And even without the economic and, in some cases, physical attacks, I get around the internet, and I see the invective that they spew:
- "libtard"
- "snowflake"
- "moonbat"
- "San Francisco values" used as a slur against Nancy Pelosi (Particularly scummy because her whole damn job is LITERALLY to represent the values and wishes of her constituents, ie. San Francisco. So either they have a profound ignorance of the constitution and what the House of Representatives is for; or they want to eliminate our representation and make us second-class not-quite-citizens.)
- "Peoples' Republic of California"
- "sodom by the Bay"
- "Californians/New Yorkers aren't 'real americans'"
- "It's okay for NK to have nukes, as long as their missiles can only reach as far as California."
- celebration of the electoral collage shenanigans that disenfranchise millions of our voters.
- "Fine people" in the ranks of the swastika-bearing, gun-toting, pedestrian running-over, Charlottesville mob.
And it goes so on and so on and so on. You make it pretty clear that you lot hate my living guts and want to see me and mine at least kicked out of the country, and ideally dead.
And you're surprised and butthurt and dismayed that some of the antipathy is returned? Cry me a bloody river.
Imagine all the people...
Spasibo, tovarishchu.
from the cosmopolitan vanity people.
Like that one guy who called southerners 'dumb', and who criticized a lawyer because he didn't have an Ivy-League degree. You really can't trust New Yorkers like him.
I would like to order a dozen dodo eggs and a mercury free, wild salmon 12oz steak. How much? ... ... ...
I'll take any goal post shifting or non response as an admission you were wrong.
And it was the lack of regulation that caused it. So, yeah, it WAS Bush.
If we do, ee have to incentivize companies to build here
Corporations and the intellectual property lsws they benefit from , as well ss the rest of the legal framework that sustains them are completely artificial. There is no "free market"; that's to all you globalists
it will be a cost passed on to the buyer.
Yes. Exactly like that. Keep telling ordinary Americans you hate them.
> Trump didn't offer Apple a place to find the millions of laborers needed to make their products, given that the official unemployment rate is at a historic low of 3.9%.
Offer a competitive salary and the workers will come. Their employers may try to offer more to keep them, but the highest bidder will win. This means wages may increase and I know everyone hates that, but workers may just have to suffer being paid higher wages.
Neither of those are raw materials, nor do they have anything to do with recycling.
Everyone on these threads always seems to be missing a bunch of points.
China (and other countries) have benefited greatly from the move of American manufacturing to their countries. That benefit to them has also created a loss in our own capabilities.American companies moved outside the US because if they didn't, those who would could undercut them. If the cost of doing business in those countries is more than the cost of doing business in the US, then that advantage is gone.
It may be too late to reverse that course. Outsourcing to China has been going on since the 70's at least, and that is over 40 years of technical know-how gone and lost. Think of it like if you paid someone else to do your homework. Sure you might have gotten good grades, but you can't pass the test when the time comes.
At this point, if China were to tell America 'We don't want to do business with you', America would be very stuck, because we've lost that capability, but China would still have other trading opportunities.
The only way back is to make the cost of building in America more competitive. Bumping up the price of doing business overseas is one part of that. Tax breaks for developing in America is another. Cutting down some regulations is another. Personally, I'd work on allowing a pathway for American companies to bring their money back onshore; and then hit them with an R&D regulation to keep the taxes low.
Manufacturing is a large part of what made America great, but we've passed along that torch. At this point, we're like grand-children spending the fortune our ancestors made. That is not a sustainable path. We're doing the same thing with cutting out need to Middle East Oil; it's time we build up our manufacturing and infrastructure again.
The assembly of the iPhone is a small portion of its costs. All of the significant parts such as processors, displays, chipsets, etc. are made by TSMC, Samsung, etc. overseas and would still be subject to tariffs. So moving assembly here would do little to decrease the costs of the tariffs. And because we would be forced to use more robotics to keep costs reasonable, it would also do little to create jobs.
And, does he really think anyone wants to be building factories while his tariffs are in effect? Most of what goes in a modern factory is made overseas and subject to, guess what, Trump's tariffs.
Moreover, why encourage Apple to move the least sophisticated, lowest skilled portion of the work here? Is that what Trump feels would restore our allegedly lost greatness? How about encouraging home-based chip and display manufacturing? The only US foundry working on 7nm just gave up. Intel is behind on 10nm. The only possible source for Apple's new processors is, guess who, Taiwan.
That wooshing sound was the point sailing right over your head. You dont get to legitimately attack the kettle for being black when the invective is boiling out of your own pot. And for bonus points, you reinforced the point by reiterating your "if your don't worship our dear leadre youre not a real american" narrative.
It's too bad slashdot doesn't properly support unicode. Otherwise the facepalm and eyeroll emoji would suffice over any text reply anyone could send you.
At varying times, many of the chips used by Apple are built by Samsung in Austin, TX. Austin would rather have Samsung ramp up than have Amazon H2 come to town. Flex is also in Austin and could ramp up. For the last 25 years, including stints as TI and Solectron, Cisco has been the largest customer.
Taiwan is not China despite the rhetoric out of the PRC and USA does not need to have tariffs on Taiwan, South Korea or Japan. Specifically it is Chinese Labor dumping and Chinese price manipulation that is the problem. Let China sell to India and Africa. America has trade with huge chunks of the world already. If other nations want China they can deal with the defence and economic consequences of dealing with China. Many countries are already waking up to Chinese sovereign interference and are moving to take action. Trump just got out in front of the issue.
Yeah. I don't care. No one else in the US should care either. Foreign countries claim friendship or don't, and they pursue their own agendas. They'll never choose what's good for the US over what's good for their own people — and they shouldn't.
You must have literally no friends in life. Because your logic is just as applicable to personal relationships. In your world being a chest-beating loner with no allies is "best." Idiots like you who have no concept of soft power are the ones who will guarantee that america cedes her position of dominance to china, a country which absolutely does understand the power of alliances.
Seriously, this one's a red herring. You've got all these advancing technologies that will really improve efficiency by taking humans out of the equation. Everything from the McDonalds kiosks so people can self-order food to the future of self driving trucks, removing the need for human drivers. Why complain about these improvements taking jobs away if other things you could do here are being held back on because of the fear we won't have enough people to do it?
IMO, as you bring back factories to America, you're going to bring them back in a modernized format. The idea Trump wants America back in the 1950's or whatever is kind of stupid. He just wants things to be produced here again, and our excuse for not doing it, to date, has been the flimsy one that 'It's just not profitable to make stuff here anymore, when nations like China can do it so cheap!" There's always been a major hidden cost in letting them build our products, though. That's been their tendency to steal our intellectual property and build knock-offs of whatever product we come up with. How much is THAT costing an American business in lost profits?
It wasn't that long ago that Nokia and Motorola had mobile phone factories in the US - I was there in the 90's. Many computers were also made in the US before. The manufacturing of mobile phones is becoming more and more automated. Even in the Foxconn factory (I've been there too), they are using fewer and fewer workers. The main things making the cost of manufacturing in the US higher than China are regulations related to pollution and taxes. The labor cost in China is getting very close to the US - close enough that it is already making no sense to make some things there and then ship them all the way to the other side of the planet.
China stopped being the lowest labor cost place to manufacture for many industries, years ago. An analysis in 2016 found the cost to assemble iphones in the US would only add roughly 5% to the cost - this was 2 years ago. My only point is entire industries that were in the US and EU 25yrs ago could be moved back home.
https://www.technologyreview.c...
The most critical and expensive parts for Apple's phones are now the A11 and OLED displays. I read a breakdown a while ago that indicated that due to the display crunch, over half of the current iPhone's production costs (which are less than half the consumer cost) were in the display module and the processor.
The A11 requires a 10nm process and is currently made by TSMC. There is no working 10nm process in America. Intel's 14nm is roughly equivalent, but that would be a significant redesign for what would be an obsolete product by the time you did it. Anything new they decide to do will be on a 7nm process or better. They could perhaps design for Intel's ever-upcoming 10nm process, but Intel won't have spare volume anytime soon. There is no indication on Samsung's sites that I could find that their Austin facility has anything better than their current 14nm in the works. That is inadequate for iPhone 8 or above products.
The OLED displays have no significant manufacturing in America that I know of. The cost of LG's new OLED display factory in China is $4.7 billion according to one source I just flew by. That would likely be double or triple in America and take years to bring online. Not happening.
They could use Intel's radio. That's something. Perhaps they could find some memory made here.
I love how a justification made based off of no one in the US able to fill jobs. Living at or near poverty makes one a little skeptical that this is a great argument.
The recovery was only long because of Obama. His moronic policies stifled the already extant recovery and led to the softest recovery since the economic failure of the new deal.
No, I didn't add one too many zeroes: Ten thousand dollar iPhone; I meant every zero of it. That's what I think it would end up costing if you built every part of it here in the U.S. Enjoy your new world, GOP: everything may end up being made in the U.S., but you'll have to be Jeff Bezos to afford them. Trumps' economic policies will wreck the country, like everything else he's doing to us.
Offering retailers secret refunds thru offshore (swiss) bank accounts doesnt sound like cost reduction, more like good old bribes ala Intel in ~2000-2005.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
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You have a striking lack of foresight, and lack of ability to reason proactively. You don't think farther than to your own retirement age, or perhaps the end of the decade. That's a mistake the entire world can't afford to make.
The fact that there's no shortage of some materials now or in the past does not mean there is an infinite supply. This is the basic truth: there is a finite supply of raw materials, and we have to think and act proactively NOW, not when the shortage is a fact. Wrap your flat head around that.
... I mean, you don't have to like it, but it's hardly shocking. That was kind of the point of the tariffs.
I'm pretty sure the people 10,000 years from now won't be saying : I wish people had recycled plastic and paper.
I go out of my way to help my friends. Personal friendships aren't like national alliances at all. National leaders have a responsibility to always do what's best for their own people. Individuals can prioritize others over self.
All during the 90s and 00s, the left was chanting about offshoring US jobs and how it was bad for the worker and that government was evil for letting it happen. Now the government is trying to reverse it, but that's also evil.
So, what's with the double standard? How else is the government supposed to bring jobs back to the US? It's an honest question. Or, do you lefties want everyone to be on welfare?
I always love these "we lost to a complete moron" comments. If he's a moron, how much lower does that make losers like you?
Anyhow, he has around 500 business and I can only find 6 bankruptcies. That implies a failure rate of ~1%. Most people agree that around 80-90% of startups fail and other types of businesses fail at least 20x more often, in general. But please, do tell us more about your business knowledge. Since running a casino is just easy money, why haven't you built one? Surely you can convince the bank's business loan department that it's free money if they're so easy to make a profit on. I mean, the games are literally rigged in the house's favor, how could you lose? The hell are you doing on Slashdot when you could get free money and be set for life?
National leaders have a responsibility to always do what's best for their own people.
The entire point of having alliances is to benefit your own people. We did not become the world's only super power by pursuing naively selfish goals and eschewing the interests of our allies. International relations is not zero sum. Stop cheering for the diminishment of America based on nothing more insightful than the utter ignorance that would flunk a high school world history course.
Since at least 2013, Apple DOES at least Assemble some of their Products in the USA, and are actively taking steps to increase those numbers:
https://www.statesman.com/busi...
https://www.apple.com/newsroom...
https://www.businessinsider.co...
https://www.apple.com/newsroom...
"And, the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because, the Cold War's been over for 20 years."
Americans only had better economic prospects in the last decade because of Trump? Huh?
I remember a time when Slashdot had a lot less people either trolling or outright lying, but I guess even "nerds" are not immune to partisan divides that necessitate you drop reason and/or integrity. Sad.
I think we need an android upgrade for POTUS, the current model seems to be malfunctioning
This solves or decreases two problems:
1. Illegal Immagration from Mexico decreases - It puts jobs in Mexico. A lot of them. Improves the Mexico economy. Because so many more jobs are in Mexico, and because the economy imrpoves, the number of illegal aliens decreases significantly. Now you don't need to build a wall between Mexico.
2. With less immigration, there are more jobs in the US, even though the Apple Jobs didn't come here, the result is actuall more jobs, because when you add a job in Mexico, you keep the entire family in Mexico, where, so you remove not just one illegal immigrant, but with families, there are two adults, and with children, that is a lot of future jobs that stay.
As if the cold war was the only reason for alliances. But of course an idiot who could never pass a civics class can't tell the difference between dipshit reductionism and informed analysis.
What did you say here Windy...
Where did you get your 9% number? Your ass?
Anything other than this site is BS:
https://data.bls.gov/timeserie...
It's 3.9%. That's what the last administration used, that's what they all used. BLS has the largest sample size of any survey, so it's valid.
Sorry, those jobs are coming back
https://www.usatoday.com/story...
Don't believe the NY Times.
You can keep typing and telling everyone you can find that it's not a EE position, but IT IS. At least an EETech. You are being cheap, plain and simple- especially for Wash/Oreg/BC. $60k ain't shit. You, like many bosses, do not value engineering and/or IT. You don't pay us for when things are working (but you are gonna pay), you pay us for the times shit goes haywire.
Anything other than this site is BS:
https://data.bls.gov/timeserie...
That's not a site, that is a page. https://data.bls.gov/ is a site, and another page on that site shows the U-6 rate as 7.4%. However, we know that the U-6 does not actually count all of the unemployed, by design, so we know the number is higher than that.
It's 3.9%. That's what the last administration used, that's what they all used.
The U-3 has always been a lie, and a deliberate one.
BLS has the largest sample size of any survey, so it's valid.
In that case, I'm at least glad to hear you will accept their figure... which is 7.4%.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There's "zero reason" to trust someone who uses absolute phrases like "zero reason" in order to make his point.
There's "non-zero reason" to believe that foreigner's opinion matters. Just because you don't like them, and you can't face the negative impacts of their opinion, doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter.
Trying using reason, as opposed to manipulative language, to support your stance.
Meanwhile, economy is going great, Americans have jobs and a reason to feel good about their economic prospects for the first time in 10 years.
Obligatory Thanks, Obama! You're welcome!
America used to have lots of friends in the world.
Nations never have friends. They have interests.
Nations never have friends. They have interests.
It is in your interest that you are in others interest as well.
Call it what you like, but without it all you have is enemies, and nations sure do have those.
Anything other than this site is BS:
https://data.bls.gov/timeserie...
That's not a site, that is a page. https://data.bls.gov/ is a site, and another page on that site shows the U-6 rate as 7.4%. However, we know that the U-6 does not actually count all of the unemployed, by design, so we know the number is higher than that.
Pedantic, much? Heh
It's 3.9%. That's what the last administration used, that's what they all used.
The U-3 has always been a lie, and a deliberate one.
BLS has the largest sample size of any survey, so it's valid.
In that case, I'm at least glad to hear you will accept their figure... which is 7.4%.
So, if we use the U6 numbers (which I don't think anyone uses) https://data.bls.gov/pdq/Surve... (seems to be, alter back to 2006), it seems we were in depression numbers under Obama. Never the less, we are in a historic low. Still I'm amazed at how the Democrats really trashed the country right after 2008. That took some work. Combine that with the fact that Obama couldn't even pass a budget the entire 8 years he was President is nothing short of the worst in history. Can't blame it on the Republicans, he owned Congress his first two years. There is no excuse.
Philips is out of business?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
The worst the U.S. could manage, the regulator said, would be to institute new levies on all of the Chinese goods coming into the world's largest economy. Such an offensive from Trump would only hit 0.7 percentage points of China's GDP growth, he forecast, adding that Beijing had ample tools to "cushion" the blow.
The worst the U.S. could manage, the regulator said, would be to institute new levies on all of the Chinese goods coming into the world's largest economy. Such an offensive from Trump would only hit 0.7 percentage points of China's GDP growth, he forecast, adding that Beijing had ample tools to "cushion" the blow.