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Apple Blocks Linux From Booting On New Hardware With T2 Security Chip (phoronix.com)
AmiMoJo writes:
Apple's new-generation Macs come with a new so-called Apple T2 security chip that's supposed to provide a secure enclave co-processor responsible for powering a series of security features, including Touch ID. At the same time, this security chip enables the secure boot feature on Apple's computers, and by the looks of things, it's also responsible for a series of new restrictions that Linux users aren't going to like.
The issue seems to be that Apple has included security certificates for its own and Microsoft's operating systems (to allow running Windows via Bootcamp), but not for the certificate that was provided for systems such as Linux. Disabling Secure Boot can overcome this, but also disables access to the machine's internal storage, making installation of Linux impossible.
The issue seems to be that Apple has included security certificates for its own and Microsoft's operating systems (to allow running Windows via Bootcamp), but not for the certificate that was provided for systems such as Linux. Disabling Secure Boot can overcome this, but also disables access to the machine's internal storage, making installation of Linux impossible.
Seems like the most expensive way to get a Linux system. There have to be at least a dozen better choices for less money.
I mean, when you buy a Mac, you're paying a premium to get OS X. Part of the price includes that software license. Apple is willing to support Windows as an alternate bootable OS too. AND, nothing stops you from running a flavor of Linux via virtualization either, that I know of?
So who, exactly, really has a problem with this limitation? I suppose you have a very small segment of "power users" who want a multi-boot environment that lets you start Linux, OS X or Windows from an initial menu. But realistically, why bother except showing off you did it?
The main things I run Linux for these days are dedicated servers or appliances, or possibly as a way to get more life out of an older PC laptop.
If you spend a lot to buy a Mac in the first place. Why would you install Linux on it? Mac OS is already loosely based on Unix and I can see adding Windows through BootCamp for better productivity. You could also use a virtual machine to run a Linux in Mac OS too. There are options to get around the T2 issue.
If you try to load Linux, it terminates your booting. If you manage to break through the security, it states, "I'll be back" and relently pursues you until you are terminated.
Virtualization instead of dual booting means you need to buy twice as much RAM: half to run the host and half to run the guest. In addition, last I checked, a developer of an application that uses the GPU would be foolish to rely on performance in a VM as representative of performance on bare metal.
Don't fight uphill battles. System76 sells laptops with Linux pre-installed and so do many other vendors.
Tim Cook is surely crying into a wad of hundred dollar bills over this monumental decision made by yourself, I am sure
Meanwhile Windows 10 not only allows Linux in the same machine it now let's me run pretty much all of my Linux dev tools in Windows, without emulation, side by side my Windows apps in one windowed shell.
Your two customers are not upset. They moved on to better apps years ago
high priced walled/semi walled garden.It is what it is so if your after flexibility and having things your way. You might need to take what comes or maybe go a different direction.
;)
Just my 2 cents
When UEFI with Secure Boot was implemented several years ago, I warned that Secure Boot could be used to block Linux. But the Secure Boot people assured us that Linux could still boot by using a certified stub from Microsoft. That still was alarming to me because then Linux was relying on something from Microsoft, which historically had been very much against Linux. But even then, Secure Boot could still be disabled allowing Linux to be installed on the local storage device.
I never thought it would be Apple who would block Linux using Secure Boot. F*&# Apple!
A beautiful one line summary! Bravo!
Chrome books do essentially the same thing.
This argument isn't remotely new. It goes back at least as far as trusted platform computing. And maybe as far back as the Clipper chip which was the primordial TPC mutation. It even has shades of the original 68K mac rom code.
The tension is who owns the computer if hardware prevents unsigned software from running in trusted status?
If the user does then viruses can never be stopped and evil users mean platforms can't be trusted on a network.
If the manufacturer or govt controls the signed boot chain of trust then you don't own the computer but for most people this level of control isn't important. And the benefits of having the safety of a trusted platform are overwhelmingly positive
The good news is that both macs and chrome books support VM like enclaves that suffice for most of the cases it matters.
So we're left with edge cases where those people can just buy a machine without it.
Even if there were no commercial advantage of TPC it still was the inevitable security model. We had a lot of years to find something better and no one has that I know of.
The danger is creeping vertical integration of walled gardens that won't inter operate. That is where the commercial benefit lies. Not the signed boot
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Why can't you just run Linux in a VM?
Exactly.
You'd think that people with the skills to install Linux would realize that there's more than one way to install Linux on a computer. There's several quite capable VMs that I'm aware of with excellent support for running Linux on macOS. There's Parallels, VMWare, VirtualBox, just off the top of my head. I suspect that in no time we'll see ESXi get signed for Apple hardware for the people that take things up a notch on virtual machines, like myself.
If the goal is to test software on multiple platforms then I'm a bit doubtful one needs to run on the metal anyway. The only things that I can think of that need that kind of access to hardware would be drivers, and someone is not likely to write Linux drivers for Apple hardware this quickly except for things like getting it booting, which is exactly what people are working on right now.
Dual booting is for chumps. If you can't dig up real hardware or figure out how to run a VM then you are simply getting ahead of yourself. Make it work on the hardware and OS you got, then worry about making some money or dig through some university dumpsters for some hardware.
This is a made up problem since the hardware just came out. If this persists for a while then I might see an issue. My guess is someone figures this out next month but Slashdot won't post it because it's news where people can't go on bashing Apple.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
OS X is a modified version of BSD Unix. Just pop up a terminal in OS X and you have a good old Unix shell.
And the corporate application vendors would love that because then they could charge thousands of pounds for applications as they used to be able to do.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Linux on a new Mac — why?
Dual boot macOS and MS Windows and add a Linux virtual machine. You can develop for pretty much anything on one machine at that point, those three desktop OS plus iOS and Android.
I've never used Bootcamp...don't see much point in it when VMs are a lot easier to deal with.
Better performance and compatibility, better access to hardware. I agree that many apps won't care but at times it does make a difference, ex Windows based games, Windows based engineering software (think CE EE majors etc), ...
Apple wants to dictate how you can use their devices. Film at 11.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
Where is the information from Apple saying that if you disable Secure Boot that it revokes access to the internal SSD?
I have a number of Macs and on at least one of them I disabled Secure Boot and was still able to boot macOS and Windows 10 with no problems.
I was also able to boot macOS off an external HDD and have full access to the data on the internal SSD.
I think it's more likely that the people trying to install Linux are having problems accessing the internal storage due to other issues, such as driver problems. ALL IO to/from the SSD must go through the T2 chip - the T2 is effectively the PCIe SSD controller (among other things). If you don't speak to this chip properly, then you don't get access to storage.
It keeps users on OS X. Secure and within set limits. Ready to buy another Mac soon.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Apple has you by the balls AND has a finger up your ass
dual booting is NOT for chumps.
case in point: I was dealing with a guy in my company (at a remote office) who was doing network testing of our embedded hardware and he was running a windows box with linux on top of it in a VM.
FOR NETWORK PERFORMANCE TESTING.
fuck! he was serious and had no idea that this was not the proper way to test for networking thruput, latency, jitter, etc. the vm layer will invalidate ALL tests you do. its not a pass thru layer at all, not when I'm trying to quanify jitter and latency thru a network router.
the ONLY valid way is to boot bare metal linux (using windows is beyond stupid for networking, even today) and run the rfc tests that way.
VMs are great for some things, but they are NOT the only way to get things done, and for many tasks, its entirely the WRONG tool.
chump - LOL. wonder if mr. chumpmaster learned anything from this post. (nah, unlikely.)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I'm still pretty sure dual booting is for chumps. Let's take your example.
If the guy needs Linux on the metal for running network tests then run Linux on the metal. He can run Windows in a VM if he needs that for things like e-mail and office apps. If he's doing work where he needs both Windows and Linux on the metal then he needs two computers. It's not like a computer is an expensive piece of hardware any more. If the company can't be bothered to get him the hardware but hobble him with reboots on a regular basis, as well as supporting computers with two operating systems installed, then they are penny wise and pound foolish.
Even then there are ways to pass through the network hardware on the computer to the VM. One easy way that most every virtualization package I've seen supports is a USB pass through. The freeware VM packages might throttle this to 100 Mbps speeds but the payware stuff will pass through at gigabit speeds. There's even PCI pass through on some VM packages if USB is insufficient.
If you are dual booting for something as trivial as what you describe then you are doing it wrong. It sounds like the guy is an idiot for hosting Linux on Windows instead of the other way around.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I ran Linux bare metal on my late 2013 MacPro. I started to migrate away from MacOS when Apple dropped OpenGL support for their own Metal API. The software investment that I had my MacOS was basically Final Cut Pro X. Everything else I ran was free. I also write code.. I ran Linux VMs for the server backend and did the Development work in MacOS, but again using a free IDE.. Atom is awesome! I was coding with OpenCV and wanted to use an Nvidia eGPU. I picked up an Akito Node and a Nvidia GTX970. I also wanted to run Linux as the host OS and run MacOS as a guest with virt. the IOMMU on the Mac hardware is hobbled. The firmware cripples the capability. Wow.. I didn't pay full price for my 6Core MacPro but man.. I really got pissed with Apple. I ended up buying Hades Canyon NUC. 500GB NVME SSD, 32GB dual ranked memory. I as able to use my Thunderbolt2 JBOD that was attached to my MacPro. Also my Akito Node egpu runs flawlessly with it. Ubuntu Bionic Beaver runs great, The egpu passthrough works great with Virt.. Virtualbox it doesn't but I think it's a Virtualbox issue. KDE Plasma 5 is slick., I configured Ciaro-Dock, Breeze Dark Workspace Theme with the Diamond Desktop Theme is WOW!. I've got all my SDR software working, GQRX, CubicSDR, Pothosware.. all works great! Now as for video editing I need to make a decisiion between Lightworks , Divinci Resolve, or KdenLive. They are all great! My AMD Vega and my Nvidia GTX970 work well. I was able to configure KDENLIVE to render with my eGPU. I am currently using KdenLive for my home video projects. Bottom Line is Apple, I am done with you!
Network troubleshooting and scientific apps are some of the main reasons people dual-boot Linux
You are thinking short term. Think long term, this affect future resale value. This affects if it will be even usage able in 3yr or 4yr or.
How many computers have you kept for more than 4 years? I'm guessing not that many.
I buy nice computers and so I tend to keep them running for 4 or 5 years. As I've been an laptop user for nearly 20 years now I'm on my 4th new laptop. I get mocked for not buying computers more often as people notice I'm running hardware that's 3 years old. My brothers got in the habit of buying a new laptop nearly every year because in that time they find it getting slow for their needs, wear it out, or break it. I broke one of mine, busted it up real good on it's 3rd year. It happens. I was a bit upset with myself but I picked up the pieces, was able to get my data off of it, bought a new laptop, and moved on.
More often than not a 4 year old computer is worthless. I'm sure a high dollar system can be very useful for much longer but it will be relegated to secondary use, given away, or sold off for pennies. As I sit here in my office I have six computers booted up in front of me. That's because I'm a code monkey and pack rat. I pulled a couple of these computers out of the trash because the businesses that owned them considered them worthless, there is no resale value on 4 year old hardware so that does not concern me. To me these old computers are "toys", something to play with as at their age they are slow, outdated, and something I consider unreliable. They do nothing of importance but I find them convenient. I am the outlier, as again most people would have thrown this hardware away. Even then I buy a new laptop every 4 or 5 years (except in the case of unrecoverable damage) because I need something reliable for my day to day stuff. And at that I'm even the outlier for keeping my daily workhorse for so long.
I guess you like not owning any thing
I like owning my stuff just fine. That includes my data. Secure storage on a computer means my data remains my data, and Apple just offered another layer on their hardware to assure that my data stays my data.
Secure storage is a good thing. You are merely creating a straw man to rip on this feature, something other computer makers offered for years. Now that it's on an Apple then I guess it becomes "bad", because Apple is "bad".
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
If the goal is to test software on multiple platforms then I'm a bit doubtful one needs to run on the metal anyway. The only things that I can think of that need that kind of access to hardware would be drivers
That and GPU-intensive games.
One easy way that most every virtualization package I've seen supports is a USB pass through. The freeware VM packages might throttle this to 100 Mbps speeds
Last I checked, VirtualBox's USB passthrough without the extension pack was limited to USB 1.1. That means 12 Mbps speeds, not 100 Mbps. The extension pack supports newer USB versions, but a commercial use license for the extension pack starts at $5,000. Which virtualization package were you thinking of?
Getting access to a NIC or GPU with a VM has been possible for a long time now, and a bit of a corner case as I'm guessing few people consider this a real problem. Calling this an issue seems rather contrived.
The whole point of a VM is to sandbox the host from the client and its hardware so direct access is not possible by design. There are many applications that require direct access to the GPU or the Network Card.
Also, Linux on Apple hardware has always been something of a hack, hardware support was always problematic.
In the days of the PowerPC architecture that was definitely the case but Apple has been using standard X86 hardware for over 10 years. Running Linux on Apple hardware is no more a "hack" then running Windows.
MacBook users switching to System76 will have to start carrying two laptops: one on which to run Xcode or other macOS-exclusive applications and one on which to run X11/Linux applications. In your experience, how practical is it to carry two laptops?
You're missing the point: Users deserve full control over their own computers. The user should decide what OSes they want to run. Treating users unethically by denying their software freedom is unjust. There are also ecological consequences others will no doubt get into which in the large affect us all. The amount of money spent on the computer is a very minor point at best.
Digital Citizen
I didn't think it would come from Apple first, I thought it would come from Microsoft first, but here it is: You're being forced to run certain OS whether you like it or not. You were all warned of this, you chose to scoff at the warning and ignore it, and now you have to put up with the consequences. If this behavior is adopted by all motherboard manufacturers and OEMs then everyone is screwed.
That and GPU-intensive games.
You're doing it wrong.
I'm not big on the GPU intensive gaming so I have little first hand experience on this but I picked up a few things on this reading Slashdot. Apple hardware has been regularly mocked for their gaming performance, they just aren't built for it. On the low end systems there's often a pretty pathetic GPU. On the high dollar systems there might be a nice GPU but they are optimized for workstation type stuff, which is apparently different than what gamers want. Then there's issues of things like VR systems needing a GPU that simply does not exist in Apple hardware, it would have to be an add-on.
So, whatever the case the Linux gamer that is concerned about GPU intensive games will not be buying Apple hardware or they will do so knowing they need an external GPU for it to work well. If one is so adamant to spend the money needed for an external GPU then adding external bootable storage for the Linux OS will be nothing. The headline is deceiving, the computers seem to be able to boot an unsigned OS from external storage. If someone is going to add an external GPU to overcome the limitations of the Apple GPU then having an external boot drive is trivial in cost, complexity, and inconvenience.
Even if the internal GPU does meet their gaming needs, and they are adamant on running Linux to play those games, then just boot from external storage while gaming. Since there seems to be a lot of complaints on Apple not putting much for internal storage (size and/or speed), making internal drive upgrades difficult to impossible, and/or a custom build with a larger drive from Apple being expensive, I'm guessing that external boot drives for the Linux on Mac gamers is the norm already.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Which virtualization package were you thinking of?
All of them.
Unless you are running some really odd hardware then there's a way to pass through the network to the VM at full speed on every VM package I've seen. I'm guessing I've seen a lot of them but not all. If the speed of the network is critical, and you need it for an OS in a VM on a Mac, and this is for mission critical work at a for profit business, then I'm guessing one just needs to suck it up and open up the wallet a bit for the right software. I double checked VMWare's website because that's what I use on my laptop and they say VMWare Fusion supports USB3 speeds on pass through. That should be good for gigabit Ethernet on any USB3 Apple computer, and quite likely 10 Gbps for any Mac with USB-C ports and the right adapter.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Not sure if this should be considered fake news or ignorance. What Apple have done is no different that any other device shipped with Secure Boot enabled by default, and it is just as configurable.
Simply boot into MacOS via recovery mode and from there you can use the Startup Security Utility to configure the boot requirements by selecting
a) only MacOS to boot,
b) any signed certificate such as Microsoft's UEFI certificate which is also used by some Linux SecureBoot systems, or
c) disable the check completely.
https://support.apple.com/en-u...
Why can't you just run Linux in a VM?
Exactly.
You'd think that people with the skills to install Linux would realize that there's more than one way to install Linux on a computer. There's several quite capable VMs that I'm aware of with excellent support for running Linux on macOS. There's Parallels, VMWare, VirtualBox, just off the top of my head. I suspect that in no time we'll see ESXi get signed for Apple hardware for the people that take things up a notch on virtual machines, like myself.
If the goal is to test software on multiple platforms then I'm a bit doubtful one needs to run on the metal anyway. The only things that I can think of that need that kind of access to hardware would be drivers, and someone is not likely to write Linux drivers for Apple hardware this quickly except for things like getting it booting, which is exactly what people are working on right now.
Dual booting is for chumps. If you can't dig up real hardware or figure out how to run a VM then you are simply getting ahead of yourself. Make it work on the hardware and OS you got, then worry about making some money or dig through some university dumpsters for some hardware.
This is a made up problem since the hardware just came out. If this persists for a while then I might see an issue. My guess is someone figures this out next month but Slashdot won't post it because it's news where people can't go on bashing Apple.
It makes more sense to run Linux on the hardware, and to use VM's for other O/S's. One has far more control over one's box with Linux -- as far as I am aware, neither Microsoft nor Apple allow people to both view their source code and to complete modified versions, with rare exceptions.
So using a VM to run Linux is not an appropriate solution.
I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro made in 2007. What's your point?
This computer has a dead battery, a dead optical drive, and is developing lines on the screen. I use it as a desktop through a KVM switch, largely because of the bad screen. Apple has not supported OS updates for several versions now, and I can't run most new software because of that. I keep it because it's paid for and it comes in handy for posting on Slashdot, reading my e-mail, and other light duties, without having to disrupt what I'm doing on my other computers.
I expect that the resale value of this computer is about that of your Vostro 1500, maybe $50 because it kind of runs and could be used for parts. I've seen laptops much this one selling for $20, so maybe I overstated the value of mine by a wide margin.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
So using a VM to run Linux is not an appropriate solution.
Then don't buy Apple hardware. At least not until this Linux boot issue is resolved.
I've heard two reasons people run Linux on Apple hardware. First, Apple makes nice hardware and (until now at least) Linux support was quite good. So, buy used, wait and see if this issue is resolved, or both. Second, while a person might prefer Linux they have a need to run macOS for their work. In this case a dual boot is used, or running a VM with either macOS or Linux as host and the other as guest. Running Linux on the metal is in this case merely preferable, not required.
I'm not seeing a problem here.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
What if there was a law that punished companies for behaving in anticompetitive manners? Something that'd keep business fair? Anyone else thought of this? Sherman...? Sherman...? Bueler...? Sherman...?
If you can find a port to plug it into.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
December 26, 1966. I switched to Linux, never looked back. Here is my credo: It it doesn't run Linux, or if such and such is not available for Linux,
I don't do *any* business with them. Period, end of story. Bill Gates and Tim Cook can kiss my Alaskan Arse.
As if we needed any more reason to detest Apple, pull a stunt like this. 1) It will be circumvented 2) It doesn't really matter, Apple hardware is rapidly becoming irrelevant, with nothing new to contribute except price inflation. Soon will only be phones and music rental.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
You'd also think that people smart enough to run Linux would also be smart enough to steer away from such thoroughly gimped hardware - where custom ICs are introduced to make repairability impossible by independent shops, where memory, storage and CPU are soldered on, and where.... you can't boot other OSes than the ones the mothership approves of.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I switched to Mac when they started using Intel and i could dual boot linux. I'll now switch away that i can't.
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
This has a double-edged sword though. The bad is when Apple stops supporting this machine, you can't just slap Ubuntu on it and continue using it, but you get to choose between keeping using an obsolete OS with security issues, going with Windows, or chucking the machine entirely.
I personally have tested this. At first, I set the security level to "none", booted Ubuntu, because I do a blkdiscard on the SSD to ensure that there is absolutely nothing on the drive before I install macOS. Lo and behold no drives, not via NVMe, not SATA.
I hope this is just an oversight. I would be surprised and extremely diappointed if Apple actually did not want Linux to run on their product by actively barring the UEFI shim needed to load RedHat, Ubuntu, and others.
As of now, using virtualization software is a solution, although Parallels is "meh" at best, VirtualBox has gotchas, so your best bet is VMWare Fusion Pro, which isn't cheap, but well worth it.
I also have a Mac of 2008 vintage. Battery has long since expanded and died, the hard drive has been replaced by a SSD, and it is slow as dirt. However, it does run virtualization nicely, and I always use VMs for web browsing, so if something exited the VM and nailed the hypervisor, my main stuff would be untouched.
Nothing wrong with using older equipment, as they have their place. Worst case, a Git or a Wiki server for storing misc notes, or code.
Which isn't much...
"https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=LBP&to=USD"
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
The processor family was never a big deal. PowerPC, X86, ARM, Alpha are/were all "standard hardware".
The real issue with Apple systems that requires "hacks" is almost always boot firmware and small but critical bits of hardware magic.
So, uh... Don't install the new OS.
Works for me on my Apple IIgs! Still a great word processor after 30 years -- I just keep booting it into PRODOS!
They say that if you do (c) it removes access to the internal storage. But you didn't fucking read because YOU hate apple being in the wrong somewhere or somehow.
They say no such thing. English may not be your first language but common there is only one sentence discussing option c). To help you along, click the below link to Google Translate and select a language you do understand:
https://translate.google.com/#....
I wonder if it will boot the NetBSD and all the open code it is based on that allows Apple to 'Think Different'. Perhaps this what Jobs meant when he said "Good artists copy, great artists steal".
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
The article from phoronix.com says that not the apple article, but as per the stack exchange link someone did all they had to do was add the nvme ID into the right file. IE Linux doesn't pick up the storage controller by default yet because its so new, once a few updates are released it should work just fine if you disable secure boot.
Admiral Trigger Happy
Once again, Apple is welding the hood of the car shut so that no one can touch the precious internals of the Apple machine that they supposedly purchased. What do they fear? You can't buy the thing without paying Apple for the operating system, and if you decide to change it to something else (like Linux, for example) they do not lose any revenue. The only thing they lose is their ironclad control over what their customers are allowed to do with the equipment they own. It stinks, and it is not new for them. It's the reason I have not used any Apple equipment for over 20 years.
Apple: "Hey users..."
Users: "What?"
Apple: "Fuck you, ha ha ha ha ha ha!"
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
You are correct. The gp apparently hasn't read the licensing terms of the VirtualBox extension pack.
Qemu/KVM supports USB 2.0 pass through, but I haven't as yet had any luck with it trying to get one of those stupid USB hasp keys to work.
Regardless of pass through capabilities, there is always going to be some overhead of passing through the virtualization layer, even if it's slight. So the original point very much stands, that network performance testing using a VM is just not valid.
Lol, "apple trusted computing helps ensure My Data remains My Data..."
Apple marketing drone detected. Reality distortion field in effect...
you're arguing with someone who actually makes a six figure salary living using less than 8G of ram in a mac book pro most the time... with a VM running.
no wonder you post AC, you're a blathering idiot who probably has never held a real job
> It's not about running Linux on a laptop, it's about pretending to have a grievance.
Thanks for that quote straight off Apple's PR department. How's the Reality Distortion Field doing?
It's a lot better than searching for things to complain about. I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain his way to happiness.
It's a problem because it sets a precedent for vendors dictating what operating system gets used on the hardware.
This same argument was used back when Microsoft introduced support for UEFI SecureBoot. Apparently this was a nefarious plan to prevent competition from other operating systems and we were on the cusp of a dystopian future where the only choice for non-Apple computers would be Microsoft. Yet here we are, many years later when even on the 6th generation of Microsoft's own hardware you can still flick off that SecureBoot UEFI switch and install Linux. Because if people buy their hardware and install something else on it they don't care.
If I buy a machine, I expect to be able to put whatever operating system I want on there -- after all, I own it.
You can, nothing is stopping you.
So being able to run whatever you want on your own hardware is lame?
No, but the trend of locked down hardware DOES force your hand.
Name an OS that isn't a festering pile of shit..
I buy all my new laptops from system76. Still have a netbook from 2010 that still works and surfs the web just fine. It even runs a virtualbox with windows just fine. Who cares linux has already won. IBM had to buy redhat to stay relevant. System 76 systems are just as good looking at Apples IMO.
Any computer system that CAN run Windows and Apple iMacOS-X (or whatever they’re calling it this week,) but NOT GNU/Linux is, as far as I’m concerned, defective by design.
Yet another reason added to the growing stack of reasons not to buy anything from Apple ever again.
When my current crop of Apple devices is gone, so am I, even if that means having to buy things to replace ones that I currently have, even if they still at least sort of work. At that time, they’ll get replaced anyway, and sold off if they’re still worth anything, which I doubt, since Apple’s insane pace of cranking out new, and marginally improved or differentiated products with different names just means their old stuff goes obsolete faster and faster. At this point, you’d be an idiot to buy anything from Apple, as it’ll be obsolete before you even get home.
Yeah, Apple might not miss me as a customer, but if there are enough of me, they will eventually feel it and it will be too late then, because Apple is going to have to wait until I get Alzheimer’s for me to even consider buying another thing from them at this point or in the future. Not sure I’d forget even then how much they’ve been pissing me off.
Come to think of it, pissing customers off is a great way to ensure you never see them again. Case-in-point: it will be a cold day in hell before I spend another dollar on a Microsoft product, give AT&T another dime, or Sprint another nickel, or any one of a dozen or so other companies, another goddamned penny. Apple has joined that list of companies ineligible for my further patronage.
You build shit that’s broken on purpose, and you don’t get me as a customer. Maybe I’m alone in this, but somehow, I kind of doubt it.
Apple is rotten to the core, probably because it’s riddled with worms.
RIP, Apple.
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
Yes we are all aware of VM's and use them whenever appropriate. The problem with VM's is that they don't have direct access to the underlying hardware which means that you can't use them for applications requiring low level access to the Network Card or the GPU.
Which makes a VM the perfect place for 95% of your applications.
Very few applications now will benefit from running directly on tin, and most are very specialised.
I don't even baulk at running SQL servers in VM's any more. Hypervisors losses are negligible and as long as you've got fast storage to host it on, you'll never see any issues.
If you do need to run your application on tin, you've got plenty of options besides a Mac. I bought an Asus in 2016 that had the same spec's as a Macbook Pro. The only differences were:
1. I could upgrade my own hardware (came with 8GB of RAM, I upped that to 12).
2. It cost £750 not £2,600.
I dual boot Windows and Linux, Linux Mint installed without an issue.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
That eases, but now the laptop user has to buy a cellular data subscription for the System76 laptop with which to remote into the MacBook or vice versa. That still costs hundreds of dollars per year.