Slashdot Mirror
GNOME 1.0 Released
The illustrious Elliot Lee writes "GNOME 1.0 is now available for download. Please peruse the press release and then download it via a convenient FTP mirror (as soon as they sync up). " Update: 03/04 08:36 by J : Whoops - forgot to plug my own program!
If you've installed GNOME and want scrolling Slashdot headlines on your panel, check
under Panel Applets ->Amusements->SlashApp. Thanks John, Chris, Fred, and everyone else!
maybe if you werent such a fucking moron you could figure out how to compile it.
go back to windows, its obviously where you belong
This was before I discovered they power of the penguin. It delayed my "upgrade" to Win95 for several months because the Win95 UI sucked compared to Dashboard. Dashboard (now owned by Starfish) for Win95 sucked becuase, unlike previous versions, it made things slower.
Now, I use KDE, and I like kpanel. When I get back home, I will be trying Gnome 1.0 on one of my PCs. In the past it has not impressed me, but it has been a long time since I checked it out.
Though it is currently difficult for a computer illiterate to use a computer (regaurdless of OS) that doesn't mean that ease of use shouldn't be a goal. Right now most of the world runs a MS OS on their desktop. Do you think we should accept that? Or, should we try and build the best darn OS we can so people can have a truly great system? Damn straight we should!
World Domination!
Penguin Power!
jnik wrote:
Federico works at RHAD, not Miguel (IIRC).
Miguel works as a Network Administrator at UNAM, a huge University in Mexico City.
Federico was hired by RHAD, but only after he had done huge amounts work on GNOME on his own time already.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Don't depend on debs or rpms! Arrrrrrggh!
----------------- ------------ ---- --- - - - -
----------------- ------------ ---- --- - - - -
Your honor is perfectly understandishable.
I know of 192 Sun SparcStation 10's that can be started in OpenLook mode. They even have OpenLook apps. Too bad OpenLook is the most horrible user interface ever designed, bar none.
Does GNOME require you to build a window manager that is compliant with it, the way KDE does? To use all the nifty features, that is. I'm sure some programs will work OK and all with any wm...
One person up above said this has been out since Monday. If that's the case, these are some sad mirrors. :) I've gone to probably 10 of them, and not a one has the files.
Guess I'll just stick to KDE for a couple weeks for things to die down...
I had set up a 486/25 with 16mb ram for a relative with KDE. Worked fine for the 6 months or so before they bought a new computer. Aside from the kids always wanting to just shut it off and not properly shut down...
And then there's the classes of people that feel all people should use only one certain set of libs, be it KDE or GNOME.
All the bickering will get us nowhere.
Actually, to anyone who's seen it, KDE looks waaaay more CDE-derived than it does Windows-derived. Windows just copied CDE... ;)
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
/me raises his hand carefully
;-)
Where did the files go?!? They seem to be missing.. Even on ftp.gnome.org!! Oh well, I'm sure they'll appear soon
And I got the last one, right???
I'm NOT sorry to say that the KDE era is not even close to over. As long as there are people who support it (and there DEFINITELY are) KDE will continue to be the best. A 1.0 release of guh-noom doesn't automatically make it great.
I'll admit I haven't tried Gnome on a daily basis yet, but my KDE is very useable on my P133/48Megs RAM. I'm running multiple terminal, Netscape, wordprocessor, 3d software and always with some elaborate backgrounds. Never noticed a slowdown in any of these preceding combination; the system always responds quickly. Even my younger sisters (10-14) find it very nice...
I guess I just haven't tasted the speed of a P2 yet...
Maybe I'll give it a try..
Just a point: none of the statements in this thread (so far) cross the line into libel by US definitions.
As for calling people stupid, I'd think that such an intelligent fellow as yourself could either rise above such name-calling or at least think of something original or entertaining.
In other words, don't be a troll, smeghead.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
facts. He is employed by a research institution in Mexico City and does work on GNOME on his time.
Bugs are inevitable. Checking `critical' bugs, I see none. If everyone waited until every single bug is gone, we'd never ever get any software. Debian has bugs. Even with known fixes. And it will still ship 2.1 with those bugs intact, because sometimes you just can't risk fixing one bug and breaking ten other things. Somewhere, a line has to be drawn.
that's because E is not written by the people who made GNOME, but by Raster and Mandrake. It just happens to be the most gnome-compliant window manager. If you don't like it, use Window Maker - that also obeys gnome hints.
To be fair, it's my general thought that once you think a project is completely finished, you should release it (as -final, a la Linus) about a week before you dub it x.0. There are *always* bugs that will only show up when you're ready to move to a new major release - they wait for it, maliciously. Evil bugs. ;)
In any case, if you're going to bash a product for not being ready at a .0 major release, don't limit yourself to GNOME. Otherwise you're showing yourself to be the hypocrate (sp?) that you are.
Because, most people don't want to have to learn anything... they just want to get their work done. With that said, I would like to add that most folk I know have to go through nine shades of holy h*ll to keep their Windows running. Think how easy it would be to have Linux preinstalled with no need for configuration. Maybe remote configuration by your service provider. Maybe autoconfiguration for a particular task etc..
:)
Linux has so many possibilities and GNOME is one of them.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
There are too many variables to make a clear cut answer. WINE code is completely independant of GNOME as all it requires for display is X. GNOME provides the same kind of DnD, Cut-N-Paste, Networked Object Model(with advanced messaging) for application interoperability as COM/DCOM with some obvious overhead required. So, the less you have running on your system, the faster WINE will run.
Hopefully, GNOME will make WINE obsolete then all the guys who do such a good job on WINE will be free to work on other projects - GNOME could benefit from such talent as it is the same kind of interface programming.
I haven't tried to upgrade my GNOME lately but I'm definately interested - especially if tremendous speed improvements have been made and configuration details have been ironed out. If WINE runs faster under the newest version of GNOME than previous versions, then count me in!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Posted by Saurus:
nah, they said 1.0 on wednesday.
Posted by Saurus:
thanks Fizgig. i've copied his *rpms onto my website also. they're available at http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~staylor/gnome
i recommend using wget for retrieval (e.g. wget -r -l2 http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~staylor/gnome)
Posted by Moritz Moeller - Herrmann:
on technical merits and stability.
GNOME has been a political project from the beginning. Unlike KDE that had the goal to provide an userfriendly desktop to all unixes.
Maybe we will be able to compare Gnome and KDE on their technical merits.
But as this post indicates there will always be people who like to convince others with their beliefs and morals.
I am not surprised the gnomes chose linuxworld for their release. After all we can all learn from Microsoft that marketing is much more important than good programming.
Still congratulations. Nice to have a second desktop ecnvironment.
I hope Gnome will one day have features KDE doesn't have. That way KDE can copy from Gnome as well....
Posted by OGL:
Exact same way
-W.W.
Posted by OGL:
It really is NOT that huge at 1280x1024!
-W.W.
Posted by OGL:
Sorry, I was hoping for an improvement as well, but unfortunetly it crashes anytime I close a file's property window. Oh well. I tried to set gnome-edit to nedit, but for some retarded reason it opens an xterm before opening nedit...pathetic. The menu editor is REALLY bad this time as well...it crashes all the time, when you do anything. Overall I'd say this was somewhat dissapointing. Some parts of it seem pretty finished, but others are just awful, not even worthy of a 0.2 release.
-W.W.
Posted by FrodoLives:
what?
I used to run KDE 1.0 on a P90 at work with excellent stability. I can only say that KDE got confused once in about 9 months of use. Who knows it may have recovered, but I just killed it.
Also ran KDE on every desk top in the office, about 12 or so. Ran fine, all of them P75 to P133 w/ 32M of RAM.
Incorrect. Gnome does not aim at the uber-geeks; it's aimed at computer users everywhere. And if it makes *my* life easier, it will probably make the lives of people everywhere easier.
Computers will never be as easy to use as toasters. And they don't have to be. Clerks, grandmas, and kids know a hell of a lot about computers, and as computers grow more ubiquitous, the level of expertise will also rise. Computers will become easier to use than they are now, but they will always require some skill.
Reading is not an easy task-- yet most people are able to read. I maintain that learning how to use a computer is easier than learning to read. And I can prove it. My daughter could use the computer long before she could read. (Computer: 2.5 years. Books: 5 years.)
Since Gnome allows you to make the best use of your computer (of all the desktops I've used, anyway), I don't see why it can't succeed.
Plus, this isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. And since Corel doesn't even *have* a desktop, I don't see why you bring them up. (They may have one in the future. I wouldn't bet on it. Chances are they will just use KDE.) KDE and Gnome can co-exist with a command-line-only interface, and even with MS-Win2k/99/2001. I don't see why that can't continue.
- Tony
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Where can I find a listing of those Salaries?
R2
Thank you. Drive through. (:wq)
It consists of a panel at the bottom of the screen with several icons/little menus and some buttons for different desktops, and you can put stuff like a load meter or a biff there. It's ugly, but there you have it. MS prolly ripped it off if anything for their taskbar thing w/menus, buttons (for applications) and little icons. CDE is reasonably wm-independent AFAIK (i've only used it w/mwm, suck).
:)
CDE can be real beautiful if it's setup right. I've never done it myself, as I don't have the cash for Motif, CDE, or a nice HP machine to play with, but I have seen professor's setups with it and it can do some really neat stuff if it's configured properly.
I'm itching to try GNOME now, I never got the CVS or the release sources to build on my slackware machine, the only real distro . Hopefully these compile issues have been fixed, really. I've been itching to try it but tearing apart makefiles and source for something that I might not even like is not something I'm interested in.
Kudos to GNOME, the developers, and all their hard work. Hopefully this will be another smack in the face to the home of my future terrorist actions, Redmond, WA.
-Erik-
And I ask "what can I use this gnome thing for? I really wanna have something, cuz my son's scout troop's getting this whole event going on, lotsa rope tying and tent-pitching and stuff and we need some flyers to print out with some pictures. i just got this scanner thingamabob and this color inkjet printer, boy did that set me back. haven't got 'em out of the box yet, so can i just plug 'em in and drag some pictures around and make some flyers? oh yeah if i could mail 'em to some buddies on AOL that would be big, or maybe i should put 'em on that webspace that our internet hookup gives us. is there a program that'll lemme do that?"
Well, a lot of this depends on the hardware you're using. I don't believe that Linux has heavy support for TWAIN (the protocol used for scanners, digital cameras, etc), nor many of these devices at the driver level are supported. Best bet would be to write the creator of your hardware and demand a set of Linux drivers, then work on getting the TWAIN support you need, with a program, not unlike a situation in windows.
The printer, that all depends on what printer you have. If you have an HP, chances are it'll work. If you have a "windows printer" or a printer that uses the "Windows Printing System", you might as well take it back and buy a real printer, because it's probably not going to work even if (ahem... canon) they wanted to write a Linux driver for it.
The fact is, every single arguement here has to do with vendor support and not the programs. There are multiple programs out there that provide the various support needed for thsi stuff, and just like any piece of specialty free software, you hunt for it or you write it yourself.
AOL could write a client for Linux, no one is stopping them.
And yes, I imagine Joe Sixpack has a telephone and a voice, that he can use to call his hardware vendors.
Please don't fill me with your FUD, and spend less time concentrating on the negative and get out there and spread what GNOME can *DO*, instead of what it can't.
Note: I think that those people out there expending their energy to cut down Linux to it's knees, should start spending their time enhancing the effort instead of waiting for something to happen. Advocation, Documentation, Meetings, these are all things that can easily be accomplished by "Joe Sixpack". Either that, or they should go back to NT and forget Linux alltogether, as all of us would benefit greatly without you. You're no better than the OS/2, MacOS, or a lot of the FreeBSD people, the true "Anything but Micro$oft" anal-retentives.
-Erik "I need some über chronic buds" Hollensbe-
Gee, and I thought TWAIN was a software interface, á la SANE... gotta check my "Scanners for Dummies" book!
TWAIN (afaik) is an interface from the program to the driver. The driver is still needed for the hardware interface, at least in the windows world.
-Erik-
Over its history (and possibly still), GNOME stuff has lived in various places depending on when (0.2x vs now) and how (rpm vs tar.gz) it was installed. Does anybody have a script that will search and destroy all obsolete GNOME cruft everywhere?
Craig
still using KDE... and xfce, and wmx, and WM...
If I'm right about this, it would seem to me that adding language bindings to a C++ library would be substantially trickier than to a C library.
Myself, I prefer to work in C++, but de gustibus non est disputandum (except of course that COBOL sucks and RPG is a joke...).
Craig
... you have to configure imlib --with-GMODULE
or the piece of code libgnomeui needs doesn't get
built.
Also the intl/ directories in several of the
source tarballs are missing a header file; just
find it in one of the other tarballs and dump
it in...
Craig
That was a notoriously buggy redhat release. You should take this experience to be a bad impression of RH5.1, not gnome 1.0.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
probably about the same time you get your capslock fixed.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
TedC
TedC
It's yet another Gnome/KDE article inciting a flame war! How original.
I don't want to read through 700+ comments, can someone just give me the gist?
^ ~
(btw, wheres Ivan, redwolf and bored in an intense discussion like this. At the time of this writing it is an 89% AC crowd. AC's are lame.)
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~
Thanks you two, I guess that simply sums it up.
Ahh I still remember the great KDE flame by Bruce Perens. It overloaded Robs little server in a most grotesque fashion.
As far as KDE vs Gnome, I use neither. Although Windowmaker is compliant with both, its perfectly good on its own.
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~^~
Do it again tomorrow?^ ~~^~
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~
first reply to first post!
you make kde look good
woohoo!!!
to get the last comment. I hope the debs come out soon.
Windows, icons, menus, pointer
That cartoon ruled.
Btw, last post.
so I can get last comment
the fsf would sell you a proprietary licence for $1500. Would be interesting though. of course, thats just for the gnu libs
last post
debs and the last post
I LIKE TEA
last
I want it bad
I'll second that.
...Steve
Yeehah! GNOME 1.0 has now generated more comment traffic than that Iraq story a few months ago. Forget Clinton v. Sadaam, GNOME v. KDE is a real war.
And that across a VNC connection. Worked fine to me.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Um, click "Panel: This Panel Properties" -- Autohide is the first option there. Works quite nicely.
Adam
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
I've been having the same probs, and now I got in on first try. not oly that, but its runnin at a good 60-80k off the t1 here at school...God Bless dorm inet connections :)
-----
If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
Actually, many of the components of GNOME fall under the GPL, rather than the LGPL. Run the following command against the GNOME 1.0 RPMs, for example:
rpm -qip * |grep GPL |grep -v LGPL
...
Size : 479065 License: GPL
Size : 3931709 License: GPL
Size : 424189 License: GPL
Size : 188812 License: GPL
...
I believe that GNOME is trying to follow the FSF philosophy of LGPLing things for which there are many or a common non-free alternative(s), and using the GPL where this isn't the case.
Regards,
Drel
sod.res.cmu.edu is up to date, as are several mirrors I tried (sod seemed the fastest, so that's the one I pulled most of the packages from).
That said, there has been a history of what could be called premature announcements on Slashdot, which have overwhelmed the main server for something before the mirrors for the software had a chance to grab it.
I'm running GNOME 0.99.8 at the moment (will be upgrading to 1.0 later today), and have no problems. GNOME 0.99.8 included a package called GTK+10, which is a set of compatibility libraries to run apps linked against GTK / glib 1.0.x.
I don't see gtk+10 in GNOME 1.0, which tells me something may have changed between GTK+ 1.1.x and GTK+ 1.2 in regards to backwards compatibility, so you may want to do some digging on www.gtk.org.
AFAIK, GTK+ 1.2 can co-exist with GTK+ 1.0; however, you must make sure that you remove any existing development packages from 1.0 before installing 1.2 development packages.
If anyone has a definitive answer on this issue, I'd love to hear it as well!
man 5 ftpaccess
(you're looking for the limit directive).
Drel
Check the blackbox web site: http://blackbox.wiw.org/
The latest version (0.50.3) is GNOME aware.
I had just the OPPOSITE.. My wife uses KDE regularly, without any problems at all.. I prefer Gnome myself, but I fear that KDE has beat the pants out of Gnome as far as a 1.0 release..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Derived from what? A small tasklist at the bottom of the screen, with a button to bring up a menu? How is panel even CLOSE to that?
;-P
Ok, maybee they stole the idea of pushing a button, but I'm SURE that buttons are considered common use enough..
Have you ever tried to add a configurable launcher to the taskbar? How about a small application to display data? Resize your taskbar? Have SEVERAL of them on different edges and corners of your screen? Common..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Three.. But then again, if you have HUNDREDS of systems having problems, then they only have ONE common denominator.. You've got something going on funny.. Are you sure it's not X? What problems do you have..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
You have an obsolete libdb, which has an incorrect implementation of snprintf, which masks the correct one in libc. Upgrade it; most distributions should have a fixed one out (even slackware), since it's also causing a security hole in sendmail, or something like that.
"Ten years from now, they could do it in a few seconds." -- The Racketeer of the Hellfire Club, 1993, Phrack 42
Please, grow up. Your arrogance and ignorance are annoying. You're the troll. Leave.
I don't know about anyone else, but I think it's too early. I know you can't wait forever, but there's one thing expected of point-oh releases - stability. Sure gnome is reasonably stable given its development time, but I can't imagine its improved _that_ much since 0.99.3 that I'm using.
Let the flames begin...
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
..and the problem is? I don't understand all this whining about support libraries. Code reuse is Good(tm).
/mill
I rather see it like - "wow, I get all this stuff without having to pay for it and it includes the source code".
Btw, with Debian apt will let you download it in a few steps.
Keep it a secret, but GNOME 1.0 _is_ versioned 1.0.1, at least for many of the packages.
Umm, you can hide the pager.
That's been in there as long as I can remember (before 0.13?)
yeah
Wow, that was a very witty and clever response.
Anyway, did you read that the person said they were HAPPY with WM and an xterm? Why must you force KDE (or GNOME if you had said that) upon them? If that is what you use and prefer, that is great for you; use it.
But don't try and tell someone, who at least gave GNOME a (small?) chance, that they should use KDE just because it is there. I am sure they have looked into it.
What in particular didn't compile? I know for a fact there is working code, since I am running it (and have been for months). Did you read some (of the little) documentation that is included with gnome? Maybe try checking the mailing list archives for people with a similar problem.
No, I am not a moron.
I have been running GNOME for almost a year. The commenter said that NO code worked, and this isn't the case since many many people (including me) are using it every day.
Sorry to dissappoint.
Do you really think people with such an agenda (originally to kill KDE) really care about usability from the perspective of a non-nerd who may want to use Linux to do the things most computer users want a desktop environment for?
Yes, they do. Usability is discussed all of the time on mailing lists and irc.
...as does GNOME.
The press release says so at least. Except for SCO; it might, might not.
qvwm is..saw it on Freshmeat recently..
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I've been compiling Gnome from CVS for a couple of months. It takes my computer the better part of a day. He may want to use the program.. :-)
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I've got CVS Gnome on my computer. It's incredibly stable...given where it was a month or so ago. But whose decision was it to go to 1.0.0? Was this just because we ran out of numbers? Hearing about it first on slashdot was also somewhat..amusing..it hasn't been announced on Gnome-List...
:-) )
I suspect the only thing at 1.0.0 is gnome-libs. Everything else is too flaky still. (in gmc: right-click on a file icon. Select "Properties". Click on "Cancel".) I'm already having enough trouble dealing with people who complain about Gnome's alphaness...
(otoh..most components are almost as stable as the Microsoft equivalents and don't show any sign of ceasing to improve. So it's no less newbie-friendly than Windows and can't do anything but get better..
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Debian makes it hard to see the latest bug fixes? Have you seen the BTS or looked at the security section of the web pages or the proposed-updates packages?
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Actually, E isn't that bloated if you use a reasonable theme..I'm running the E-Mac theme right now and it takes up an incredibly small amount of memory. Like a meg or two.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I am very grateful; I think Gnome will be a really great suite of programs when it's finished. Let me repeat that last line, when it's finished. I personally use it all the time. BUT. I currently have half a dozen to a dozen bug reports on the BTS ranging from minor glitches to several reproducible segfaults from common actions. And I don't post every time I encounter a bug. I've been following CVS since last October, and I'm afraid--that they'll just make themselves look silly by releasing Gnome in the state it's in now as "1.0.0". Anyway, looking forward to the 'real' 1.0.0 release next month...
(and yes, 1.0.0 often has bugs. But not nearly so blatant as these.)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I think. Being a Debian user, I said "oh, neat!" when they started using debbugs and I've been submitting bugs to it on a fairly regular basis ever since... (I said 6-12 earlier but I think it's more) I'm not even counting bug reports on gnome-list. Many. :-)
I think I've had 3-4 responses and maybe one of the bugs was fixed. In another case I was told that it was a feature (I still say mixers should read the settings from the sound card when they start up), I was told that a bug against the panel was fixed in CVS (it wasn't--I run CVS--and some other people submitted reports to gnome-list in the last 24 hours. No-one has responded yet). Several of these reports involved crashes from very simple actions: for example, right-click on an icon in gmc, select "Preferences", and click "Cancel". *boom*. segfault. I'd fix it myself but I don't have time to learn how gmc works internally on top of everything else... I also submitted a couple of (very) minor bugfixes. So am I qualified to complain that they're making us all look silly? I'm taking the position that it's just a version number...what they release next month will be the 'real' 1.0.0.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I wish they'd made it clear that only gnome-libs is really stable though. :-( A full 1.0 release is just...silly. *sigh*. Hopefully not too much damage is done.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I'd like to see users using Gnome. Which is why I wish they had kept the lid on it for..say..a month..or two..or three... :-)
I originally thought this was just a nuisance..but I'm starting to wonder if it could be a catastrophe. What was Miguel thinking??? Can someone explain why he felt he had to rush the 1.0 release? And if you say "RedHat"...you lose. RedHat!=Gnome. (If that is true..why did Debianizing files go into CVS?)
Oh well. Damage control time I guess.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
By my count, you need the following 'Gnome' packages to have Gnome:
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Right now I'm in the process of switching from wmaker to E, having finally found a theme that's pretty and doesn't eat memory like crazy. Enlightenment takes around one or two megs of memory, and my X server takes up no more than usual, when I'm running it. (it's E-Mac, posted to e.themes.org recently) It doesn't have as many key/mousebindings as I'd like but I've sent the author some suggestions and it sounds like he'll incorporate them. It looks like the next release will be Very Good Indeed. :-)
Where was I? Oh yeah. E doesn't look like Win9x.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Not that that's helped them.. :-( (the best BTS doesn't help if the developers and users ignore it..I submitted a pygtk program to gnome-list that gives a nice GUI to the process of bug-submission but it was ignored.. Only about a third of the developers seem to actually read the bugs, I've taken to cc'ing the list to make sure someone listens.. )
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Eh? I'm running Gnome and E with a pixmap theme on a P166 with 48 megabytes of RAM. Only have problems when I'm running Netscape or several instances of gcc. Neither of those are part of Gnome, so it's not Gnome's fault they take up 50% of my memory. :-)
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Yes, your mother will just..um..use apt. Don't give your mother Debian until 2.2. :-)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
There are not that many bug reports on the Gnome bugs page. Go to bugs.gnome.org and look around. I generally expect to at least hear "you're an idiot, I'm closing this bug".
What do you mean about providing a machine to run my PyGtk program on? It's very simple..just pops up a box asking for the package name, severity level, and bug information. Should I be letting people run it as an X client off my machine? I don't get your comment at all.
(btw: I was complaining about the lack of reading as a comparison to Debian's BTS, where I usually get at least an answer within a few days. They get _many_ more bugs.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Grr.
I'm sure it's not a Debian bug, though.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
gnumeric is almost here (stabler than the panel I think). gwp is about six months from being done. Don't know about the other things, Excel and Word were all I ever used anyway..
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Ech. I've been using Gnome from CVS for a long time and if I had been in charge, I would have waited for a couple weeks at least to release. There are way too many bugs still floating around there..odd things happen unexpectedly..it'll be cleared up soon but many people will take their first impression of Gnome from the 1.0 release. They should have gone to 1.0pre1 or 0.9.10.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Unfortunately it isn't. I think the worst bugs will be gone in a week or two. But there's too much flakiness. Stuff just doesn't work. It's almost there but just far enough away to be not quite ready.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Federico works at RHAD, not Miguel (IIRC).
Actually, the .xsession would look something like this:
#!/bin/sh
xterm &
kbgndwm &
krootwm &
exec kwm
I'll let you figure out what the extra wm's do (hint: kpanel doesn't do the root menus).
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
What "taskbar"? You mean, the Launchpad introduced in v3.0? That was more like FvwmButtons or Goodstuff, not a taskbar like WarpCentre (or whatever it is called) in v4.0, which obviously came After Win95.
:o)
What we need from OS/2 is the Workplace Shell, though.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
In April did they say? Well, then, I assume 6.0 is gonna be a joke bug-wise, and people should wait 'til 6.1 or 6.2 for the serious stuff... :op
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
I don't believe that Linux has heavy support for TWAIN (the protocol used for scanners, digital cameras, etc),
Gee, and I thought TWAIN was a software interface, á la SANE... gotta check my "Scanners for Dummies" book!
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Jesus. What the hell are we going to do when slashdot gets its first 1000-comment article?
I guess that depends on which nifty features you're talking about. Integration between apps and the window manager (as demonstrated by the GNOME pager/tasklist, for example) requires WMs to support certain hints. But the vast majority of the functionality provided by GNOME and GNOME apps does not require window manager support (I would expect this to be true of KDE as well, though).
FWIW, the hints I mentioned are supported already by Enlightenment, IceWM and Window Maker.
Just don't use either. fvwm2 (not fvwm95) will probably give you a much better wm experience. The newer KDE versions are pretty stable, I find, but I can't bring myself to use the, since they are so butt-ugly (as in, they look way too much like win95).
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
Do you really know what you're talking about? Corel said they wanted a desktop and would use KDE as long as it was the only option. It's not anymore, and they haven't made a release yet, so I bet they will take the options, study them side by side (on a lot of factors, not only UI) and pick the best. And I seriously doubt it will be KDE.
If you were using the right distribution, you were just typing "apt-get install gnome-panel gnome-session ..." and all the dependeicies were solved for you automatically.
GNU wants its name to be associated with stable software, but any stable software is undtable at some earlier point, don't you think? Why an unstable GNOME was released as 1.0 is another quiestion, but associating the GNU name has nothing to do with it.
The quote I read was, paraphrased, "We have no idea what the hell we're doing, so we haven't made up our minds yet."
And as far as GUIs: Don't even go there. I cannot see one single reason why 2 or more interfaces can't survive side-by-side. Giving an example of a lame interface dieing off through evolution doesn't make your point.
RH probably won't do an IPO, simply because that opens them up to acquisition bids and closure, if say a company doesn't like linux and decides to purchase a controlling share, grab the assets and say get rid of a newly created department and its employees, say the linux development department and os design. Just a thought. They could be granted a stake in the private company, though. That would be nice.
Brian Seppanen
Minister of Information and Propaganda
Area 54 The Secret Government Disco Labs Provo
http://www.gnome.org/mailing-lists/archives/gnome- list/1999-March/
/lib/cpp? Jason N Pratt (Wed Mar 3 13:00:02 1999) /lib/cpp? John Huttley
The March Entries include a massive pile of severe bug reports. Most are about outright Crashes in core components. It seams to me that only 2 possibilities exist here.
This is a sampling of just the last 3 days of gnome-list@. The main list, not even the Bug Tracking list. In other words this is where newbis who can't get it to work go to cry for help. Note I cut it off before the Was 1.0 released too early thread.
Sounds to me like someone wanted to delay Gnome 1.0 and was spaming the list under multiple names. 'Astroturf', I call it.
Re: orbitgtk.c kills compile for gnome-libs Shane W Rogers (Wed Mar 3
20:45:45 1999)
Re: orbitgtk.c kills compile for gnome-libs Elliot Lee
Re: orbitgtk.c kills compile for gnome-libs Shane W Rogers
E-Mac.etheme questions mlemsing@swavley.com.au (Wed Mar 3 20:16:05 1999)
German User Guide Knut Neumann (Wed Mar 3 18:29:01 1999)
Re: German User Guide Karl Eichwalder
How can I turn off session management? Mike Dickson (Wed Mar 3 17:57:47
1999)
font sizes in balsa Michael Perry (Wed Mar 3 17:00:46 1999)
GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Martin Hawlisch
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Karl Eichwalder
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. James Henstridge
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Jan Gentsch
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Karl Eichwalder
Minor visual quirk in the panel Daniel Burrows (Wed Mar 3 16:19:58 1999)
Help compiling balsa-0.4.9 Igor S. Livshits (Wed Mar 3 16:02:55 1999)
Re: Help compiling balsa-0.4.9 Spud
Re: Help compiling balsa-0.4.9 Igor S. Livshits
Resizing bug in panel? Daniel Burrows (Wed Mar 3 15:53:43 1999)
Re: Resizing bug in panel? James M. Cape
Gnome-guile Dies James M. Cape (Wed Mar 3 15:51:47 1999)
Re: Gnome-guile Dies James Henstridge
Re: Gnome-guile Dies James M. Cape
Linux Magazin cover story Matthias Warkus (Wed Mar 3 15:51:01 1999)
RE: Linux Magazin cover story Nathan Clegg
E/Gnome window placement quirks Daniel Burrows (Wed Mar 3 15:47:21 1999)
Re: E/Gnome window placement quirks Daniel Burrows
How do you start gnome? (solved) Bryan Schmidt (Wed Mar 3 15:27:06 1999)
How do you start gnome? Bryan Schmidt (Wed Mar 3 14:53:27 1999)
balsa compile Sigmund Freud (Wed Mar 3 13:57:27 1999)
Re:
libungif.so.4? Jason N Pratt (Wed Mar 3 12:06:26 1999)
Re: libungif.so.4? Daniel Veillard
Re: libungif.so.4? Harry Henry Gebel
Difficulties subscribing to gnome-list from home Tim Lewis (Wed Mar 3
11:51:59 1999)
orbitgkt.c kills compile for gnome-libs Shane William Rogers (Wed Mar 3
10:53:07 1999)
Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Mike Dickson (Wed Mar 3 10:30:30 1999)
Re: Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Daniel Burrows
Re: Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Greg Fall
Re: Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Tomas Ogren
gdm problems Marcin Gorycki (Wed Mar 3 10:25:24 1999)
Gnome without sound Aaron Held (Wed Mar 3 09:49:08 1999)
compile gdm i2ambler (Wed Mar 3 08:41:31 1999)
OT: Blackbox... Jason N Pratt (Wed Mar 3 08:17:27 1999)
Re: OT: Blackbox... Gleef
balsa-v0.4.6.2 on gnome-0.98 Adam Moyes (Wed Mar 3 07:04:29 1999)
RPM problem Benjamin Walling (Wed Mar 3 07:00:29 1999)
Re: RPM problem Gleef
Reducing size of icone and panel Franco Spinelli (Wed Mar 3 04:01:30 1999)
Re: Reducing size of icone and panel James Henstridge
Re: Reducing size of icone and panel Shooby Ban
Startup help for a newbie? Jim Meyer (Wed Mar 3 02:00:31 1999)
Re: Startup help for a newbie? James Henstridge
Re: Startup help for a newbie? Jim Meyer
Re: Startup help for a newbie? James Henstridge
gnumeric Michel Bertignac (Wed Mar 3 00:18:41 1999)
Re: gnumeric Havoc Pennington
RE: gnumeric Michel Bertignac
RE: gnumeric James Henstridge
gmc segfault Daniel Burrows (Tue Mar 2 23:59:40 1999)
The Real State of GNOME Albert Strasheim (Tue Mar 2 22:38:41 1999)
Gnome WindowMaker App Icons won't stay away! Harry Henry Gebel (Tue
Mar 2 19:16:30 1999)
Re: GTK Themes and Font Sizes Matt Martin (Tue Mar 2 19:14:08 1999)
running Gnome without sound Aaron Held (Tue Mar 2 18:32:23 1999)
Off the topic. Simon Murcott (Tue Mar 2 18:24:41 1999)
Proper TERM value for gnome-terminal under Solaris 2.6 Glenn
Kronschnabl (Tue Mar 2 17:27:01 1999)
Re: Gnome-stones Carsten Schaar (Tue Mar 2 16:57:51 1999)
Re: Gnome-stones Carsten Schaar (Tue Mar 2 16:53:24 1999)
pre1.0 Michael Hall (Tue Mar 2 15:42:44 1999)
gnome-session and psuedorandom X crashes. Marshal Wong (Tue Mar 2
14:59:30 1999)
RE: gnome-session and psuedorandom X crashes. Fox, Kevin M
panel bug Fox, Kevin M (Tue Mar 2 14:34:40 1999)
Re: panel bug Arup Kanjilal
Re: panel bug Daniel Burrows
Re: panel bug Daniel Burrows
gtop on Solaris 2.6? run-time errors Glenn Kronschnabl (Tue Mar 2 14:27:59
1999)
Re: gtop on Solaris 2.6? run-time errors Martin Baulig
[slight bug? + patch] gnome-pager Mike McEwan (Tue Mar 2 14:06:38 1999)
Re: [slight bug? + patch] gnome-pager Jesse D . Sightler
Re: [slight bug? + patch] gnome-pager Peter Wainwright
Re: GLIB_SYSDEF_POLLIN kmb (Tue Mar 2 10:17:07 1999)
Bizarre problem with panel and E Daniel Burrows (Tue Mar 2 08:48:16 1999)
Re: Bizarre problem with panel and E Daniel Burrows
Audiofile library -endedness problems? Mark R. Bowyer (Tue Mar 2 07:22:01
1999)
Gmc Desktop and Enlightenment James M. Cape (Tue Mar 2 04:20:52 1999)
First installation and running. A few newbie Questions. Kerry Todyruik
(Tue Mar 2 03:11:44 1999)
Re: First installation and running. A few newbie Questions. Jesse D .
Sightler
Re: Loading things directly from targz/zip files? Stefan Mattauch (Tue Mar 2
02:22:15 1999)
Re: RPM snapshots Gleef (Tue Mar 2 01:55:55 1999)
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement - solution? Colin Walters
(Tue Mar 2 01:36:04 1999)
enlightenment themes? hitch (Tue Mar 2 00:38:19 1999)
Re: enlightenment themes? Spud
RE: enlightenment themes? David Puryear
RE: enlightenment themes? Federico David Sacerdoti
RE: enlightenment themes? David Puryear
[BUGS] Panel Menu Editor! Jesse D . Sightler (Mon Mar 1 23:49:17 1999)
Re: autoconf-2.13 kmb (Mon Mar 1 23:20:28 1999)
Re: autoconf-2.13 James M. Cape
Re: autoconf-2.13 David Ford
Balsa dies in compile James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 22:48:27 1999)
Re: Balsa dies in compile Jesse D . Sightler
Panel segfault Jason Tackaberry (Mon Mar 1 22:40:30 1999)
Re: Panel segfault Elliot Lee
Re: Panel segfault Daniel Burrows
GUILE won't compile hhv (Mon Mar 1 22:36:16 1999)
Gnome-guile Compile Dies James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 22:12:35 1999)
Re: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis (Mon Mar 1 21:28:45 1999)
gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis (Mon Mar 1 21:00:41 1999)
Re: gdm submission Robert Bihlmeyer
Re: gdm submission Matthew Kirkwood
Re: gdm submission Robert Bihlmeyer
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
Re: gdm submission Sam Vilain
RE: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis
Re: gdm submission Erik Andersen
Re: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis
Re: gdm submission Tomas Ogren
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
Re: gdm submission Sam Vilain
Re: gdm submission klw
RE: gdm submission Wicks Robert-CRW051C
RE: gdm submission Guillermo S. Romero / unnamed / Familia Romero
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
RE: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
GMC and NFS ~home Bryson Borg (Mon Mar 1 20:36:39 1999)
connection refused by server -> core dump Ronald de Man (Mon Mar 1
20:10:04 1999)
Hiding panel James Charles Lewis (Mon Mar 1 19:40:27 1999)
Re: Hiding panel John St . Clair
GtkICQ and panel Mohammad Abdin (Mon Mar 1 18:38:50 1999)
enlightenment & gnome window placement Colin Walters (Mon Mar 1 18:37:10
1999)
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement Daniel Burrows
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement Spud
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement Matt Martin
Gnome-mixer John St . Clair (Mon Mar 1 18:24:11 1999)
Gnome-guile & CVS GTK+ James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 17:55:52 1999)
gdk_imlib Mark Toller (Mon Mar 1 17:18:11 1999)
guile-gtk part 2 Sigmund Freud (Mon Mar 1 17:16:15 1999)
GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michael Perry (Mon Mar 1 17:02:24 1999)
Re: GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michael Perry
Re: GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michal Palczewski
Re: GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michael Perry
Re: gedit-0.5.1 Alex Roberts (Mon Mar 1 14:46:28 1999)
gnome-guile won't compile Miguel A. Figueroa (Mon Mar 1 14:14:53 1999)
Re: gnome-guile won't compile Marius Vollmer
Re: proper gnome startup procedure Tim Lewis (Mon Mar 1 14:10:44 1999)
GDM, and how to use it] Tim Lewis (Mon Mar 1 14:07:06 1999)
Re: GDM, and how to use it] Andrew Clausen
Re: GDM, and how to use it] Tim Lewis
Problems with swallowed XEyes Daniel Burrows (Mon Mar 1 13:58:45 1999)
libgtop probs Sigmund Freud (Mon Mar 1 12:26:01 1999)
Editing the menu Mike Dickson (Mon Mar 1 11:59:02 1999)
balsa 0.4.9: configure: can't find libPropList?? Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1
09:34:08 1999)
Re: gnome-objc 0.99.8 and GTK 1.2.0 (fwd) Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1 09:29:34
1999)
Re: gnome-objc 0.99.8 and GTK 1.2.0 (fwd) James Henstridge
Re: gnome-objc 0.99.8 and GTK 1.2.0 (fwd) Mario Vukelic
E keybindings Jason Coposky (Mon Mar 1 09:25:41 1999)
Re: Gedit not compiling Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1 09:06:24 1999)
RE: Getting the gnome going Michael James (Mon Mar 1 09:05:39 1999)
gmc 4.5.21: make check does rm -rf to th mc source tree Mario Vukelic
(Mon Mar 1 08:55:57 1999)
Task bar Mark Toller (Mon Mar 1 08:55:08 1999)
Task bar Mark Toller
Re: Task bar Daniel Burrows
Re: ORBit-0.4.0 compile problem Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1 08:52:12 1999)
guile-gtk Sigmund Freud (Mon Mar 1 05:57:17 1999)
Re: guile-gtk Marius Vollmer
Re: guile-gtk David Knight
Re: GLIB_SYSDEF_POLLIN kmb (Mon Mar 1 05:09:10 1999)
gmc crashing Mike Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 04:35:03 1999)
Re: New file manager 4.5.23 is out Mike Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 04:27:36 1999)
Re: New file manager 4.5.23 is out Mike Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 04:26:25 1999)
RE: GNOME development in C++ Marcin Gorycki (Mon Mar 1 03:34:55 1999)
RE: gnometris Marcin Gorycki (Mon Mar 1 03:26:59 1999)
Re: Session management: Don't save session on exit/Save session now
Robert Bihlmeyer (Mon Mar 1 03:06:28 1999)
Re: ESD options Robert Bihlmeyer (Mon Mar 1 03:05:32 1999)
Re: GTK Themes and Font Sizes James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 02:14:50 1999)
Dependancies Brian Clark
Re: Dependancies James Henstridge
Re: Control-Center Jesse D . Sightler (Mon Mar 1 01:32:35 1999)
Gnome canvas: should it be part of gtk+? Jason Tackaberry (Mon Mar 1
01:24:57 1999)
Re: Gnome canvas: should it be part of gtk+? Havoc Pennington
Re: Gnome canvas: should it be part of gtk+? Marius Vollmer
Quite a few questions... Spud (Mon Mar 1 01:22:20 1999)
Re: Quite a few questions... David Ford
Re: Control-Center Michal Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 00:30:43 1999)
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
my initial reaction to the GNOME 1.0 release is that of mixed feelings. i feel that the GNOME 1.0 release was good in that the big 1.0 release of any product is a milestone for that product and shouldn't be ignored. on the other hand, rushing releases to meet release dates, such as our friends Microsoft, is never a good way to establish such an important version.
such is the case with The GIMP. the gimp, over the years, has done exactly what a good peice of software should do. on unmarked release dates, new versions of the gimp are released, with numerous changes; often the patch sizes are quite large. only but a few times has a version been released that dosen't include a big update, except that of tiny important bug fixes. the idea about the release date of versions can be also traced to #gimp on irc.gimp.org on irc. you will find the place where most of the gimp developers hang out and discuss gimp code along with other projects, such as the gnome project. if you ask when the next version of the gimp is going to be released, and someone is not idle, you will most likely receive an answer such as "we dont know", or "a date is not set". a version is released when they feel that enough changes and fixes have been incorperated into the version.
the GNOME 1.0 release was set for today, Wednesday March 3rd, 1999. you could almost be sure a delay wasen't going to happen, unless of a program critical problem. as Tuesday ended, and Wednesday rolled around, news was broken of the GNOME 1.0 release. immedially hundreds of people flocked to ftp.gnome.org, also checking the mirrors to find out that they weren't synced yet and didn't have the 1.0 release. as many downloaded, compiled, or maybe just rpm'ed, problems were encountered, and solutions were hard to find, in some cases. such is the problem when releases are rushed.
i feel that GNOME 1.1 will be much more developed than 1.0, and will be easier for the linux community as a whole to have GNOME working problem-free, or at least better than 1.0. no one wants another Microsoft-like product to ruin the linux long-standing idea of non-marked release dates.
--
scott miga
hello. nice to meet you. thanks for replying. lets go through this step by step shall we..
"The "date was set" this last monday. OMFG, that is such a long time", isnt it though? in my "comment"(comment in the sense, my opinion, not a news article or anything), i said that release dates werent set at all, i dont care if the release date was set 5 hours prior to the release. i was writing about the point of unplanned releases.
"Are you a gnome developer", yes, i am Linus Torvalds. no really, i am not a gnome developer, and dont plan on being one. must i be a gnome developer in order to post my comments on the release of a certain product? in that case, Microsoft would have a really really really huge developer status. have i installed/worked with 1.0?, yes i have. cool, eh? i installed it about 2 hours after it was released, done by compiling the source. i encountered some compile problems, as well as some run-time problems, none of which were major, all of which i was able to rid of quickly.
"are you an elite kde user?", no, i am not an elite kde user. yes, i have used kde in the past, monkeyed around with it, but no, Window Maker is my choice of a window manager, and occassionally i use GNOME to test out certain peices of software, and more importantly.. to test out the new releases, expecially the current 1.0. "ignorant people should die.", please, please. thus be the reason why Rob should rid slashdot of Anonymous Cowards.
any more questions or comments? please feel free to email me, that is, if you are brave enough to reveal your real identity. thanks for your comments, and have a nice day. :)
--
scott miga
yes, its true. i am a 15 year old monkey-spank. no really kiddies, im really not. why did i not reply to his "thats not all you feel" comment.. a few reasons..
1) it was immedially ignored, totally-childish.
2) just re-read his comment, its sad.. really it is
3) last of all, him, and you for that matter, are scared of revealing your true identity. its people like the Anonymous Cowards that ruin slashdot and make it a worse and worse experience for the rest of us who wish to come here and discuss the latest happenings in the computer world, with your pathetic remarks, and i dont even want to waste my time typing to re-comment on such praising peices of work.
once again, thanks for replying. it always makes my day to be able to come back and reply to such intelligent and humble minded comments. any more comments/questions, email me.
/shouldn't you guys be in school right now?
--
scott miga
heya, whats up? good to see your still around. this will be a short one, i don't wanna waste time getting you mad. about the logging in, uhm, theres not a skill involved. if you would like to post real comments, people get accounts. people, err, kids like you go around posting rude and malicious comments making fun of people, or at least trying to. its sad, it really is. sorry to inform you, but your 1 million dollars poorer. as to the age deal, i am 23, and i attend Fredonia State University in NY(SUNY). last time i checked 23 year olds weren't allowed in high school, hey, i may be wrong.. really buddy.. email me.. cause im tired of checking back here to see if my wonderful admirer has replyed.
--
scott miga
really? cool man, i didnt know that. hold on.. ill call my mommy and ask her what age i am.... ok, shes claims im 23. i dunno, its funny, why would i know what age i am? next.. your right.. i go to a school in new york, SUNY, Fredonia State University, in New York. woa, you know my name? could that be because maybe i post it everywhere, espically on themes.org. your a hax0r man. stop hax0ring me. im scared. no really, lets grow up here, drop the diapers and walk on your own two feet.
--
scott miga
your right, i cant.. thats why i don't.
--
scott miga
hey that was good thinking.. on your part. woa, you broke the clain of replyed comments headers. now im sad. =\
--
scott miga
----
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
You know, it took me a few moments of staring at your comment, but I just got that, and now I'm snickering quite heartily.
----
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
Gimp 1.1.2 does compile with GTK 1.2. I just recompiled it this morning to get my theme support back.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
Oh fer crissakes, get over yourself. There are no experts who are not end-users, otherwise there's a large chunk of required experience missing. Take your dishwasher, for example. Even if you have an EE degree and know every blooming detail of how the device is designed, constructed, and operated -- if you never pushed the start button yourself, you're not an expert. Knowledge without experience is nothing but faith, and faith doth not make an expert.
As this applies to GNOME, it's a good thing. Experts are borne of end-users, so the more end-users there are, the more experts we have in the making. And I doubt you would argue with the desirability of creating more experts.
I think not...(*poof*)
Wow! I'm not the only one that dislikes KDE from a usability point of view, then. I have other reasons for believing it to be bad for the Linux community, too, but primarily, I don't use it because I just don't like it. Maybe GNOME will be different. I guess I'll find out when (if) I get round to trying it.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Which will it be then?
just how well did the 486/25 perform? was it useable?
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
And the thread is still growing...
-- Jochen
If there's SRPMS on there, you could just download all of them and rebuild PPC versions of the RPMS.
It'd take quite a while -- Gnome isn't quick to compile -- but it should work. I squeaked in a moment or two after this article was posted here and got right into the server, but I just grabbed the binary RPMS not the source ones so I don't know if the source ones are there.
Has anyone noticed that 1.0 is *much* less stable than 0.99.7? Its the worst I've seen GNOME in six months! At first I thought it was just my PC at work -- a mishmash of RedHat 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 with multiple GTK versions, half compiled, half RPMS, etc.
But here at home on a clean 5.2 install -- as well as a 5.1 install that hasn't had any GNOME software (only KDE) installed on it, things that used to work perfectly don't work any more. The control panel doesn't function in any usable form. Most of the components of it crash randomly, the Enlightenment one isn't even listed any more.
The menu editor crashes and half the time causes the panel to crash to. In *no* cases has making a change caused the panel menus to actually change, which has worked flawlessly the last five or six versions I've ran.
Half the games seem to crash or not function properly. GNOME sounds seem to cause the system to crash randomly. (Aparently because of wav files missing from what it expects to have, and its not handling the missing file cleanly)
Now I've got to work myself back through downgrading to a version that actually is usable.
This is really pathetic. I think its terrible that such a lousy product would be announced to the public when so many eyes are on Linux this week, and the software works far worse than the multitudes of betas that thousands of people have happily been using over the last few months.
Don't compare GNOME 1.0 to KDE 1.0.
Compare GNOME 1.0 to GNOME 0.99.7 or 99.8.
Then you'll see how much of a piece of crap 1.0 is. Usually software works better when you get off of beta, not worse. Unfortunately when the eyes of the world are on the GNOME team, they've botched things by releasing the least stable version they've had in months.
You're very right. I had to remove 1.0 and go back to 0.99.7 to get three of my systems back to a usable state.
I think its a shame that the GNOME team shot for feature expansion not stability for 1.0. It seems like a poor and careless way to handle the public side of software development. They obviously have every right to code it any way they wish, but this sort of a fiasco just hurts their reputation. Yesterday would've been a big day for KDE if KDE was actually a useful environment.
Lets hope 1.1 or 1.0.1 or some announcement saying "just kidding, *this* is actually 1.0" comes out sometime soon.
> Name me a product which had it's initial release be production ready.
Gimp 1.0 Was pretty darn smooth. Granted it needed some fixes, but the full year in 0.99 mode made it pretty solid.
I think you mean the window manager when you say "user interface." Such as olvwm? The first wm (I used anyway) that had real virtual desktops, where you could drag things between desktops on the virtual desktop window itself? You can set up the wm to mostly stay out of the way, as they say, perfection is achieved not when you can't add anything more, but when you can't take away anything.
...but I can't say much for the rest of the environment. Still, the pager was truly a thing of joy. FVWM's isn't anywhere close to as useful.
BTW- I use textedit some as well. It's a lousy program, though. Now I mostly use strait Emacs or KWrite.
--Lenny
Couldn't get on all day! :-)
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I hope you're not implying he'll be able to set up a scanner and printer w/o problem under MS Windows, are you? If you are, then you are incredibly naive. I deal with "joe sixpacks" all day long at work (I work at a company that sells mulch and soils). There's no way most of them could accomplish this under Windows. Macs, probably.
Drop the 'tude.
I'm not an apologist for Linux/GNOME's short comings, but the guys comments were not constructive at all. He had no point, just dogging on Linux. I've been sick all week, and want to celebrate Gnome 1.0 (runs great!) not listen to somebody's negative rants.
I agree with most everything else you say.
I'm trying to mirror it too. On the T1, it started out as 25K/sec, now it is down to 2.5K/sec, and by the end of the day I suspect it will be 25bytes/sec. :(
I don't know how many of you have used CDE, the only really standart DE for unix until KDE/GNOME (well, i guess openwindows and 4dwm. fine. the only one that didn't totally suck). I've used it a lot in HP-YUCKS.
It consists of a panel at the bottom of the screen with several icons/little menus and some buttons for different desktops, and you can put stuff like a load meter or a biff there. It's ugly, but there you have it. MS prolly ripped it off if anything for their taskbar thing w/menus, buttons (for applications) and little icons. CDE is reasonably wm-independent AFAIK (i've only used it w/mwm, suck).
So there's the origin: a panel, a set of applications (HP has a Motif mail client, text editor, etc etc), separate from the wm, all w/the same look-and-feel (ugly as nuts motif 1.2 on those HPs). The feeling is that the GNOME or KDE panel should provide some similar functionality. I haven't decided whether I'll keep the panel yet -- I like windowmaker's menus just fine...but I do love nifty panel apps almost as much as nifty dock apps. No reason you can't do w/out it tho, if you prefer a clean simple wm menu (i'm really an fvwm2 person, i like it dirt simple)
...or the efficiency of Excel95...
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
It is a widget set too, and simplicity or no, the OpenLook widgets are not only ugly but hard to use.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Change it into a corner panel. Then it will exist at one corner of the screen, vertical or horizontal, and only take up as much space as is needed for the buttons, applets, docked apps, etc.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Stop whining you jerk.
How's that?
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
gnome-session is a session manager, not a window manager.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
I've never had it happen to me. Very often I've had panel crash (actually, usually it crashes before it comes up), yet gnome-session is alive and well. gnome-session is the last thing in my .xinitrc (actually, I start gnome-session in the background with & then get its PID and at the end of .xinitrc I have 'wait SESSIONPID'; seems to work better that way). As long as gnome-session doesn't die, you're fine. The panel can actually be killed without affecting gnome-session; but if you choose Logout from the panel, it sends a message to gnome-session to quit, hence your X server quits (assuming that's the last thing in your .xinitrc).
That's been my experience, anyway.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
So... if I get GNOME, can I still run GIMP? I ask because every time I grab GIMP, I read a little doc file that says GIMP DOESN'T WORK WITH GTK+ 1.1 AND LATER. That is to say, it wants 1.0.x. Which is all well and good, except that GNOME seems to require 1.1 or later. I'm not about to sacrifice GIMP (which I use on practically a daily basis to earn my living) just to pretty up the ol' desktop, but if there's a stable GIMP that'll deal with GNOME, I might try it!
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
We could always try for the longest thread ever...
Never heard of em.
I'm sure this one will be gone first thing in the morning.
Things sure have slowed down in here...
It had a few major bugs, including one that crashed my system (it involved the bttv driver).
The point is that everybody was very understanding, reported these bugs, and went on to install 2.2.1 and 2.2.2. Give gnome the same chance.
Of course there are those who have already decided that gnome sucks and the sorry state of this release will give them ample opportunity to confirm their assessment. I'd lust like to ask those people to keep their opinions to themselves unless they can put them into words in a *constructive* manner.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
You can download the SRPMs and rebuild them, but you'll probably want to wait until PPC versions show up on ftp.linuxppc.org or linuxppc.cs.nmt.edu. Recent versions of GTK+ (> 1.1.11 or so) interact badly with the compiler on PowerPCs, so you need to apply a patch and change a compiler option before building. Otherwise, any GTK+-based apps (like most of GNOME) segmentation fault right away.
Colin
Try to do anything like that under Windows or KDE. It provides all the functionallity of Windowmaker's dock plus some.
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
I had the same feeling, but after using .99.8 I must say that a LOT has changed. Give it a try.
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Hello
By the admision of the people working on the GNOME project (in previous threads on the mailing list for one source.), GNOME is just getting started. It is now entering it's most important phase, public testing. I've been using gnome since the first (.rpm) release. The user interface is good but not revolutionary... but it could be.
System admins, net admins, gurus, programmers, 0.xers, and computer savvy people in general have a mission....
To listen to the moms, clerks, grandmas, kids, reporters, clowns, technophobics, crazy, and even uninterested people to find out how gnome can be a a better tool for making novice home system administration possible.
We should consider ourselves chalenged! Not finished. Not by a long shot! The Number One priority should be to help even if it is just listening to peoples complaints, and bouncing around possible solutions.
Lets stick up for everyone, and give everyone the opportunity to learn what the Linux philosphy is about. We would want the same for ourselves.
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
I didn't read this story last night (I was still pissed bout my linux.com "share the wealth" post being deleted... argh), but I noticed at only a couple of hours this had 260+ comments. Now it's like 500.
/. /.'ed itself...
The last time this happened
What's wrong with BEER!?!
I had problems using the rpm's coming from an old E 0.15 daily snap and gnome 0.99.3 but clearing out all the old E, gnome, and their libs (strinlist, libFnLib, libesd*, etc), killing all my home dirs dotfiles that related (.gnome, .enlightenment dir, .ee, etc) then starting over with a rpm -U of everything with --nodeps and a simple gnome-session after a few utils in my .xinitrc (first time I spawned gnome-session... doh!) and everything has worked beautifully.
Various ramblings
This is just f*cking great!
Congratulations Gnome Developers around the World!
Oliver
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
There is a ocean of difference in importance between the license of a single app, and the license of the basic toolkit used for the whole UI. Most of us can live with using some apps based upon proprietary licensees, but we can't accept those impurities so make their way into the core of the operating system, and the UI is very much a part of that core.
I am sorry to say this, but KDE era is now completely over. Those of us who read the interviews with the Gnome and KDE developers in Linux Journal, know that KDE has a lot of catching up to do. CORBA, TrueType, anti-aliasing, xDND, language wrappers are all things in GNOME today, but only planned KDE. And even their LGPL toolkit effort stranded, and with a proprietary toolkit in the bottom it can never be anything for the majority of the Linux community than a distant second choice. And before anybodu claims otherwise, a patchware license will never be anything but a pale shadow of true free software licenses like LGPL, GPL and BSD.
Proprietary toolkit and proprietary browser closed source browser. A perfect and revealing fit.
Blackbox is also Gnome-aware. I believe several other window managers either have it or are working on it.
see below:
"GNOME is designed to be portable to any modern UNIX system. Currently, it runs on Linux systems, BSD variants, Solaris, HP-UX, and Digital Unix. In the future, it will be included in Red Hat Linux, and other Linux distributions such as Debian GNU/Linux and SuSE Linux."
also:
"Because GNOME supports many programming languages, including Ada, C, C++, Objective-C, TOM, Perl, Python, Guile, developers are able to write GNOME programs in their language of choice."
now i don't want to be an ass about this, but get your facts straight before you spout...
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
To all others who would try to hype interfaces based on proprietary libraries and in doing so try to make us stray from our quest for a Free OS, I say we should all sing along:
"They can try to bind our arms,
But they cannot chain our minds or hearts!
We will keep the faith inside our souls
And never let it go.
We are forever free."
- Stratovarius, Forever Free
GO GNOME! GO LINUX! WORLD DOMINATION!!!!!!!!
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
E isn't completely bug-free, but even Raster emphasizes that it's beta software (although he does try to stress its stability, also). Before starting to use it again in February, my last try was back in October or so, when it seemed really unstable and remarkably slow. Now, however, it's quite fast and very stable.
You still get occasional crashes, but the blatant bugs have all been fixed. I'm still running the Feb 16 snap, so I'm not sure what's happened since then. Check out the changelogs. (www.enlightenment.org)
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Configuring it by hand is a bear, but if you use e-conf and others' themes, it's great. I'm using the BrushedMetal theme in E and the analagous one in gtk and my desktop looks awesome. This for only about 5 minutes of configuration.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Well, culling out the poseurs from the true free-believers is somewhat akin to testing witches. Everyone is exposed to my rantings, whether they are guilty or not. =)
That said, I am glad that KDE exists if just because it gave the free software community a kick in the ass to get a truly free graphical user interface started. Sure, I don't like KDE for the still-as-yet-unresolved Qt licensing issues; but I also think it just looks like crap.
But, in the end of the day, to each his own...
At this point, I'm just confident that GNOME will win out. As a Debian user, this is the one time I am glad that RedHat has the muscle it does. RedHat's support will more than make up for KDE's head start. Additionally, in a few months, maturity will be a non-issue, and the greater number of killer apps for GTK (the GIMP, Gnumeric, whatever you consider important) combined with RedHat's support will starve KDE.
If this sounds hostile or confrontational, keep in mind that AS I SAID a few weeks ago, I will embrace the KDE developers and users as brothers once Qt goes free. It still isn't. I'm waiting, TrollTech...
Ye believers: Keep the faith!
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
IF and WHEN Qt 2.0 is released under the QPL, I'll shut the hell up about it.
It hasn't yet, so I will feel free to share my warnings with others.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
HAS THE CVS CODE BEEN RELEASED UNDER QPL?
Do not say ANYTHING else until you have answered THAT QUESTION.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Why is warning people about such a distinct possibility being a fool? Do you have any idea how many people are going to scream "I told you so!" when TrollTech pulls the plug on the QPL, and all the KDE developers come running to the former Harmony developers and beg them to restart work? I'm not going to do that; rather, I'm going to warn people in advance so they aren't caught by TT unawares.
Okay, so you're thinking: "What's the worst that can happen when TT pulls the plug? So, we all go back to using WindowMaker or FVWM2 or whatever, and life goes on."
Wrong.
Consider all the people who are adversely affected by such a move: the KDE developers, who spent countless hours writing software for a toolkit they knew wasn't free; the users of the various KDE-centered distributions, who suddenly have to learn something else new; and the businesses who find that they have to spend time and money converting their systems and retraining their employees. Now, who's being the fool?
One QT is released under the QPL, this all becomes moot, because it'll already be free, and TT can't take it back. Until then, however, we should consider the possibility that the reason why TT is stalling is not a good one. This is not paranoia; this is realizing what "freedom" means and trying to protect it by not trusting those who don't openly embrace it.
Do not underestimate the value of freedom. Linux was built on freedom: the freedom to use, copy, modify, and distribute the software as you see fit, with very few restrictions. If you don't see a problem with TT's stalling in releasing a version of QT under the QPL (why not release QT 1.x under QPL? Huh?) then I argue that you do not understand a very fundamental point about Linux development and why it has prospered as it has.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
You'd be surprised - There were HUGE increases in stability since 0.99.3. Those guys were in Insane Bug Fix Mode, and GNOME is now quite stable. Take a look at it.
-- "Machines have no conscience" - Queensryche
That list is so insanely out of date it's not even funny.
-- "Machines have no conscience" - Queensryche
QT, these days, is more free than GPL software. The QPL is just like the GPL, going so far as QPL-encoumbering any software derived from the QT libraries. The only real difference from the GPL is that you can pay the developers to get a non-encoumbered version.
In fact, I am surprised that QT just does not release a GPL (not LGPL) version of the QT toolkit for the free-software people, and a non-GPL version for $1500 a developer.
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
The foot is cool. If Red Hat takes out the foot, I'm leaving Red Hat forever. Especially if they replace it with that obnoxious "secret man" logo. Am I the only one who was annoyed by them slathering that thing all over FVWM?
The Gnome Foot will stomp everyone!!!
support gun control: take guns from cops
Naw, I just think Malda hasn't woken up yet. :-) Too much partying at Linux World, maybe? Of course, he is on the west cost at the moment, so that may be it...
...unless you believe that the universe, and thus the passage of time, will end. Otherwise, there will never be a "last comment."
So, hah!
Alright, let's get philosophical...
It matters in what context comments are allowed. I could always comment on another section of slashdot on this article, so even if this article gets closed to comments there is no "last comment." For a last comment in that sense, slashdot itself would have to end. But then I could continue commenting on another website, etc., etc... If you define a comment as a sentient reaction that can be causally linked to the existence of the article, then all you need for comments is the continuation of time and sentience.
So, hah!
Is this whining? I thought it was a perfectly reasonable, completely idiotic philisophical argument...
Hah!
really?
Somebody get our flag back!
I think we're sunk - once the media finds out just how laughable this clunker is compared to KDE, you can kiss all the great coverage good bye.
This thing is NOT READY for public consumption under any circumstances!!!
GMC is a really BAD joke - and I mean that seriously. A decent file manager is the core of any good GUI - GMC SUCKS.
I can't believe that the Gnome Zealots unleashed this clunker to the press. Its terrible. Someday - maybe. But now?
And in all seriousness - E as a WM???? PUHLEEESE!
WE'RE SUNK.
Hehe, I couldn't agree more with you. GEM was also the built in Window-system in the Atari ST/STE/TT/Falcon series of computers and I loved it! Swift and nice even on an old 8 MHz machine...
However, haven't tried Gnome or KDE yet, maybe I find them to be even better...
Nothing like a sweeping generalization with no facts. Very convincing.
Why do you care if some people like and use GNOME? If you want the one true solution, there's a company in Redmond, WA that will sell you one. God forbid we have a choice on the Linux Desktop...
--
This signature left intentionally blank.
There are other people with flame throwers that would say that Linux is a cheap, badly written clone of FreeBSD. Should I format my HD and follow their lead?
It could also easily be argued that KDE is a cheap, badly written clone of Windows. That's not my opinion, but it's just as supportable a position as yours. As a matter of fact, it's a more supportable position. KDE looks a lot more like Windows than GNOME looks like KDE. Furthermore, Windows and MS Office exist now and Windows has a 100 million users. Heck, Windows is "free", you get it with virtually every machine you buy. Obviously the people working on KDE are just wasting their time.
I am not slamming KDE, I'm just bouncing your logic back at you.
--
This signature left intentionally blank.
Its just too big. Bungs libraries everywhere, has far too many dependencies, and is just too much hassle. The only reason I installed it was to try out a few programs that I liked the look of. In the end it wasn't worth the effort. But I wonder how many of these programs actually *need* Gnome to be usable. Me, I'll just stick with Window Maker and an xterm. Launches all the apps I need and doesn't fill my lib dirs up.
Congrats to the people who've contributed to it though. Not taking anything away from them, they did a good job. It's just I won't be using it.
Yeah, I did look at KDE a while back. Personally, I think its butt ugly. Like I said before, I don't really need the GNOME integration... just some of the apps are cool. Ah well.. I'll just wait until GNUStep is a little more mature. And yes, I know its not a desktop environment. It's better... ;)
The Dallas Morning News article alluded to a Wednesday release... I was rebuilding a box on monday, but held off til today for Gnome, fingers crossed. Yay! :-)
Despite some of the whining you'll hear around here, you have an immense amount of gratitude from hundreds, if not thousands, of people.
Way to go Gnome!
Not sure there's enough room for both of us in this town... (/me draws gun)
I submitted [___] bug reports.
:-)
If your experience is true, then that really is unfortunate. Before you complain too much, however, please fill in the blank in the statement above. If the number you provide is 1, please STFU. Especially with that "tsk, tsk, shame" stuff.
If you did help with debugging, then >I'll STFU.
"less than 1" - damn HTML. :-)
You were incorrect.
--
Nope, the canvas really is cool. It's a generic object that support primitive shapes, text, and programmer defined objects which can be extensions of those primitives, includes built in antialiasing, rotation, scaling, zooming, etc. It's cool. Believe it or not, gnumeric, the spreadsheet, uses custom objects on a canvas for its display.
--
libgtop is under the GPL, because it's a non-essential component library that provides extra functionality to free applications.
--
Everything from these first few months says 1999 could change the world.
Time to stop arguing.
Time to make it.
Time KDE and Gnome got that low level compatibility and at least minimal interoperability.
Then the best one will win. Then we will know which was best.
Good luck to all.
I am English. We are a mongrel race :-) /. thinks of them)
Some of my ancestors are French. (Hey we know
what most od
But I am English. Go figure.
Yeah, the Amiga's message ports are incredibly efficient, but they rely on the fact that the Amiga has no virtual memory or memory protection. It was quite common to pass around pointers to your own internal data structures. All addresses were physical addresses, so other processes could look at your data. Efficient, yes. Safe, no. From a technical point of view, the Amiga was an amazing machine, but no memory protection was one of it's definite weaknesses.
Speaking of MUI, MUI was awful. The programmer's interface was badly designed (there are several things that would make any good programmer nausious). There were also many things about it's UI that were awful. The prefs program was unusable on a 640x200 screen (which was the standrad on NTSC Amigas). The only thing that made MUI efficient at all was that it ran on top of boopsi and the Amiga OS. Imagine how bloated and disgusting it would be if it was ported to X.
Of course, boopsi had its problems too. Having a single "dispatch" function is a pretty bad way to implement an object system. Imagine how many branches/calls are executed in a deep class hierarchy if you call a method that's never been overridden? Yikes...
How can I be sure that they will not change license for core libs to GPL? Does the current license protect from such a voluntary restriction of choice?
Andrew
RedHat doesn't own GNOME. They contribute a great deal of money and time to a wonderful desktop project, which they then GPL and give away for free!!
Support choice! Use GNOME! Use KDE! Use EMACS! Use VI! Use LyX, use WordPerfect, use Quake, use Twisted Reality. Use computers! They're cool.
Let's all stop trolling and PARTY! This is a great day in free software's history. We finally have a garuanteed static API which we can code to. GNOME can start moving onto the desktop, in tandem with KDE, replacing those proprietary standards who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty.
Glyph Lefkowitz - Project leader, Twisted Matrix Labs
Writer, Programmer - Not a member of the TSU
To anyone from the GNOME development effort who's reading this: it is broken. It is broken beyond all possible releasability -- take this release down now, lest it be an example to the corporate world of the impetuousness and instability of the free software movement and the unreliability of the code it produces. I was using 0.99.8 relatively happily (with a few bugs, of course, but that was development software -- this is supposed to be a release!!! Now, almost every GNOME component is broken, even after removing every remnant of the previous install including all preferences and libraries.
I really like GNOME's proposed feature set -- however, the importance of features must be measured concurrently with the importance of bugfixes. This release was supposed to be concentrating on bugfixes!!!
Because of this release, I will be re-installing KDE and waiting for a release of GNOME that I can actually work with. Until one comes out, I'm done testing this crap and waiting on a bunch of developers who, it seems, don't know how to debug, or don't care about their users.
This is a cruel mockery of a desktop environment. It is supposed to be competing with products like windows. We all love to mock microsoft's substandard operating system -- but in terms of actually working with software, GNOME is much, much worse. I hope that the developers will see their error here, mark 1.0 as unreleasable software and publicly state that there will be a release soon including ONLY BUG FIXES, so it is stable enough to use and develop for and on.
--glyph
Glyph Lefkowitz - Project leader, Twisted Matrix Labs
Writer, Programmer - Not a member of the TSU
I ran most of the 0.99.x series, and unless they've fixed more bugs in the last two weeks than they have since 0.99.0, then gnome is still way too unstable for the 1.0 tag.
I *heart* Gnome, but please. Giving something a 1.0 version number before it's stable is a bad move.
Linux evangelism has focused largely on how damn stable we are. RedHat is one of the more public commercial faces of Linux, and they're putting their weight behind a project that while incredibly nifty, has more annoying bugs than Win 98.
Eugh.
The more I learn about the Internet, the more amazed I am that it works at all.
That "some features" are mainly the Pager/Tasklist and probably a few more things. But nothing that is really required, it's just some nice improvements. You can really use it with any window manager.
SASG homepage with link to MUI
Those are not comparable. You can compare GTK+ and MUI, however. They are both widget sets (GNOME is much more, it is just based on GTK+), and I don't see why MUI should be better than GTK+ (MUI is of course commercial closed-source software, which makes for crawling slow development, especially on a niche platform like the AmigaOS).
Except that MUI's look could be easily configured through a GUI, but is not as configurable as GTK+ with themes.
"Also, a widget's code only ever loaded once - in the whole system. Now thats whay I call a shared library ..."
Actually that's just how shared libraries work under most modern Unixes including Linux. And that's how GTK/GNOME works therefore (all widgets in the libraries are only loaded once per system).
Additionally the parts of the library that are not used are not loaded, same with binaries. AmigaOS may be saving resources, but you can save much more with virtual memory.
There is something wrong with your machine then.
I have a p133, and it runs fine. No performance issues (except for using the background manager to swap 6mb backgrounds in and out. it doesn't like that much.) and my copy of 1.1pre2 has been running for almost 27 days STRAIGHT with no problems.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
Also you could try a distribution that has KDE pre-configured. I recently switched over to Linux completely b/c I was sick of Win95 crashes. I currently using Linux-Mandrake, and have recommended it to several people -- three have already picked it up. I'll try gnome when I want to upgrade. Till then, though, I'm happy.
For that matter both KDE and GNOME have based their BTS on the Debian BTS.
What does .tar.gz have to do with Slack? Slackware distro files are .tgz sure, but they are binaries nonetheless...
Source code is compiled the same way on any Linux distro...
How many home computers is Linux in?
.
You don't really need a DE... unless you are dependent on dragging and dropping.
While I'll admit that a document-centric paradigm is the "right way" and the way of the future, I am in no way dependent on it.
.
It really makes you sound like an idiot.
Just some neighborly advice... I know you are probably NOT an idiot.
.
Your problems seem to be mainly RPMs.. this is a braindead packaging scheme. Try Debian, it has a much more full-featured and foolproof packaging system.
Linux is screwed for Joe-ex-Windows-"power"-user for at least another year. We are trying to make it simpler for you... please be patient
.
thinking...
hmmm, I'm sorry you have an empty life.
Have fun!
.
I have no problems with QT... even if it was a completely closed and proprietary license I would have no problems with it.
What I do have a problem with is the KDE team statically linking OTHER PEOPLES' GPL'ed CODE with a non-free toolkit and distributing the binaries in a BLATANT VIOLATION of the GPL.
They might as well just bomb the FSF and get it over with...
.
Most software development consists of custom software for one company or another developed by their own or contracted programmers (who get paid well, usually) the source code would have little value to anyone else.
Programmers/companies who make a general purpose over-the-counter package and market it themselves have a decision to make... GPL or not.
There is NOTHING in the GPL that states that you can't charge for the software, only that you must make the source available to people who get the binaries. There is admittedly a danger of people just getting the source and giving it away / selling it to everyone else... and you have no legal recourse. Or they could make a few changes, compile it, and illegally sell it as a non-GPL product; it would be very hard to prove that a particular compiled binary contains GPLed code.
However, if you are selling only to other businesses, why would they give away the source to other businesses and give them an edge with a free version of what they just forked over a bunch of cash for? And if they have no programmers, they won't even know what source code IS, much less compile it and sell it non-GPL.
The only real problem is for those who make programs for the end user... and this is really a small market compared to solutions for business.
.
If you're going to label people morons you might want to make sure you spell "category" correctly.
Just a suggestion.
.
I don't see how you got RedHat out of his post...
.
Can the panel be made smaller? It's HUGE, even at 1280x1024. I like it OK with just the "main" menu, a small clock and all the rest task bar. The panel can be used to replace the desktop icons of KDE but then I lose taskbar real estate. A second panel (You can do that, you know ;) ) solves that problem but them a major part of the screen is taken up. This is not a rant. I appreciate all the work that has gone into Gnome and look forward to seeing it's progress.
-Steve Bergman
I have been following gnome off and on up through the first "cow" release. 1.0 is really cleaned up. The annoying little bugs I noticed before are gone. With a little configuration, I even like "E", and I never expected to say that. If I were basing my decision solely on how I like the interface, I would stay with KDE, but although KDE is great and QT is pretty free now, I prefer to use gnome and GTK+. However, I won't put up with a lot of inconvenience on my desktop just for the sake of that. With this release, It looks good enough to me. For a newbie fresh out of windows, I'd suggest KDE. If his machine was low memory, I'd feel good suggesting Gnome. Thanks to everyone on both teams; the two desktops complement each other well and together are better for Linux than either alone.
It doesn't work when invoked intentionally. ;-)
-Steve
What KDE has in CVS and in beta is irrelevant. Neither KDE 1.0 or 1.1 use CORBA at all, and KOffice is unfit for human consumption as it stands.
4 years is a godforsaken eternity. Four years ago Linux couldn't run X, let alone a desktop. I think you are wrong anyway - one side or the other (probably Gnome, but whoe knows ?) will end up attracting more mindshare and making a better product. At that point the other will die.
since gnumeric 0.3 lots of things have changed.
Natureman
I have nothing useful to say, I just want to set a new record for posts on a news item and this thread was useless already. :)
Useless, useless noise.
It's fun, eh? Only fifty or so more to go...
More useless noise. Only EIGHT more posts to go. Or seven, now.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and most of them are on slashdot's discussion board.
We're in the home stretch now, kiddies! Five more posts after this one and the Iraq story gets pounded like... Iraq, actually.
Looks like it, doesn't it. Whatsamatter, people realizing that posting to a discussion with 743 posts already is wasted typing?
746
747 posts and counting
748 posts here, 748 posts there...
749 posts! We beat Iraq! I'm going to get a job as a soccer official.
I wouldn't call GEM 'swift' when running on a basic ST - but then, that's probably because I bought NVDI 4.11 (the software screen accelerator for those not in the know). A hyper-fast, hyper-compatible VDI replacement coded in assembler, complete with high quality and standardised printer,screen, bitmap and metafile drivers. The font rendering knocks spots off XFree86's - far faster, uses truetype and speedo fonts, and works throughout the system. X needs something like that.
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
and it beats out 'Linux 2.2 Released'
-- adraken
more comments.. MOOORE comments.. yea gnome sucks/kde sucks qt sucks... balh balhaaaha ahah
qt is nice sometimes...
-- adraken
keep on arguing... you know what?!?!? GUI'S SUCK ASS TOO!!! i MUST keep my TUI text user interface... all this WIMP shit (windows/icons/mouse/pointer) is dumb, lets stick with the console bitch!
-- adraken
mmmmmm!!! 1000!!!
-- adraken
we can MAKE It to 2000 comments :) 2kilo comments or 2 KiloComments :P
-- adraken
Stop Morons.
Stop Anonymous Corwards.
We at LSG actually use, sell, and support both GNOME and KDE. They are excellent and have come
a long way from their beginnings.
User interfaces are something that must also evolve accordingly and this is as good as any a time to announce a little project we have been working on at LSG.
We will soon be releasing to the LGPL a 3D interface that will be easy to write apps for and also easy to adapt IRED,touchscreens, and other neuro-muscular, or voice activated devices. The project, called VOOME (Virtual Object Oriented Manipulation Environment) was inspired by Dr. Stephen Hawkins and other users in need of an easier to use interface that would be more intuitive, and allow for the easy manipulations of work_objects from a large variety of the above said devices. This is not just for the physically challenged but will represent a break from the common taskbar/file manager/icons paradigm that has been prevalent throughout the industry.
We will be releasing the code and development API's soon and urge anyone interested in such a project to email us and they will receive access to the server.
Any ideas for the interface will be gladly accepted and openly discussed because that's the best way to write software, using the OSS model.
Anyway sorry for being somewhat off topic.
Cheers,
Nick
LSG
Truly antialiased fonts don't look blurred. Don't confuse Acrobat's "fuzzy" fonts with the real thing. Aliasing doesn't happen with perfectly vertical or horizontal lines (unless you have a weird staggered shadowmask or something), but acrobat blurs 'em anyway. Amazingly stupid.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
And I ask "what can I use this gnome thing for? I really wanna have something, cuz my son's scout troop's getting this whole event going on, lotsa rope tying and tent-pitching and stuff and we need some flyers to print out with some pictures. i just got this scanner thingamabob and this color inkjet printer, boy did that set me back. haven't got 'em out of the box yet, so can i just plug 'em in and drag some pictures around and make some flyers? oh yeah if i could mail 'em to some buddies on AOL that would be big, or maybe i should put 'em on that webspace that our internet hookup gives us. is there a program that'll lemme do that?"
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Then you will simply never achieve the world domination you want. You simply won't topple Microsoft, or even Apple for that matter.
You may prefer it that way. Personally I don't care either way, and neither does Joe Sixpack.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
libgtk.so.1 =>
bash$ldd
libgtk-1.1.so.14 =>
The fact that the sonmames are different means that the programs link without any problems. As far as the linker is concerned, the different gtk versions might as well be qt and gtk (-;
However, you probably shouldn't install both compile time libraries for gtk ( ie gtk-devel ) as these conflict. Of course, you don't need these installed unless you're compiling
--
Donovan Rebbechi
Like the other guy says, however, don't try to do concurrent installs of the different header files ( compile time libraries ) unless you know what you're doing
-- Donovan
--
Donovan Rebbechi
Until they installed CDE, Openlook was the default on the SPARC stations at my school. I figured it was part of a conspiracy to turn the students into unix haters.
...
I share your views on Openlook. When it's really dead, I will dance on its grave
-- Donovan
--
Donovan Rebbechi
The obvious answer to this is contained in your reply. A "window manager" is responsible for decorating and manipulating windows, nothing more. It seems much more efficient to keep it that way.
I start with the big green gnome-print, then it's something like :
settings/window manager
But when I get the window manager box up, nothing's there, and if I click it, it dies then restarts and there's still nothing.
Is there somewhere else I can go to pick a window manager other than Enlightenment?
I mean, it seems like a nice enough WM, but I've got time, energy and affection invested in Window Maker. I also depend on BlackBox for protracted GIMP sessions because of its small footprint. Enlightenment just isn't in the cards right now.
In general, there are chunks of this that are pretty nice. I'm speaking, by the way, as someone who's never coded anything more than some perl to catalog all the dirty words in the Starr Report. So, as a lowest-common-denominator, windows refugee kind of guy, I'm saying Gnome is pretty nice. It's purtier than KDE and wants less of my precious 32 mb. It doesn't thrash around as much, and feels more like I want it to feel.
There are bugs, but there's been worse than this out there in the past. If it kills the Gimp or Word Perfect out from under me, I'll hate its guts, but for now it seems ok. It'll only get better. It's one of the few projects where I'm tempted to break my usual silence and send bug reports, even if every other luser on the block is sending the same ones.
Anyhow... if someone can point me to where to get Window Maker back, I'll appreciate it.
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"A horse laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms"
Debian 2.0 was and is stable as hell. 2.1 is stable and has more stuff to install.
But as far as stability is concerned, debian 2.0 was absolutely solid.
'Cause raster is a nut who really doesnt care about the people using it. This is in no way supposed to be derogatory. I just dont think raster designs E with a great desire to see people all over the world use it and live peacefully and prosper. He's just playing around with nifty features and challenging himself. That's one of the reasons I dont use E, it's not designed with a user in mind. You can use WindowMaker with gnome though. I personally use FVWM 1.0 - the sweetest wm to ever come out. It's small, fast, doesnt try to be some ultra-super-duper-cool-WM, and it's pager kicks E ass. E has some really nice features to it though. To each his own, this is why there are different wm-s.
-Laxative
A million monkeys jumping on a million keyboards for a million years will eventually create Shakespeare's Hamlet.
100 monkeys jumping on 100 keyboards for 20 days will produce the source code for Windows'95
Just wondering if now was the right time... I could see arguments for it, considering Linuxworld and all...
W
-------------------
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
well, one prob, im broak, i halfto get one of my friends to burn it to a cd :(
Hum. I've been using and developing (sorta ;)) on a P166 without problems. Now that I've very recently switched to a PII/450 with twice as much ram, and a much faster HDD, I really only notice the speed difference when I'm compiling stuff. Perhaps your problem is you're using Linux :)
The revolution will be mocked
I've been a big advocate of using Gnats which is developed by Cygnus, it's also integrated with emacs, and is powered on the user's end by shell scripts (or a WWW interface). If I had access to resources I probably would have set something up.
However, if you're not actually providing the machine on which to run your PyGtk program, then don't whine. And until you've had to sift through hundreds of nearly similar but all incomplete or just asinine bug reports don't complain that not many developers read them.
The revolution will be mocked
2). I always have, KDE is not nearly as stable as the KDE zealots make it out to be, and GNOME is not as unstable as the KDE zealots make it out to be.
Yeah you're one to talk. KDE has proved remarkably reliable for me, and I tend to use it quite a bit. When was the last time you tried KDE?
P.S. You're essentially the pot calling the kettle black. Once a zealot always a zealot, Keithy.
The revolution will be mocked
Uh neither KDE nor Gnome are WMs.
The revolution will be mocked
I'm speaking from the KDE perspective. I haven't really poked around much now that they're using DBTS, but the old BTS was HORRIBLE. Ugh.
;)
Perhaps it's just Gnome's elitest nature that you're encountering
The revolution will be mocked
... KDE. Big improvement.
And wait for 2.0 Qt based.. At the time when Gnome
guy finally get rid of all grave bugs it will be here.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... All linux world will look silly..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... do not worry about language bindings - swing will match look and feel (including system colors) very well.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
...installation is a nightmare, and it just keep fucking crushing.
cleaned it up as good as i can, and returned to KDE 1.1...
I have nothing against Gnome. But the Gnome is far, far from 1.0. 0.45 I would say.
Developers should be ashamed of themselves.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
..gnome crashes worse than Win 98 anyway..
..It is a MS plot to descredit Linux..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
looking better? It crashed on me in an hour more than my home Win 98 in a year..
And, yes, I know how to install things.
KDE 1.1 never crashed on me so far.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
I am running it (and have been for months)
Are you a moron? It is about so called 1.0 release. It is out for two days.
This "release" is about on par in quality with Windows 2.0. Only file manager is worse than that, otherwise - about the same in stability.
Yes, it used to work a bit better around 0.2 - 0.3 version.
The horrible hack of implementing UI in a non OO language IS doable, of course. But it will be crash prone. Hackers will be busy, user will suffer.
People just don't get that there is such thing as "fast enough" when dealing with human interaction, and the overhead for good OO structure is well worth it.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
It does not take much to see it crash. Even a single "cancel" crash should be debugged before this thing sees the light of the day.
It was all about publicity and LinuxWorld. Egomaniacs. Shame.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
in hof...
...that's a lot of comments....
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
i can do OO in assembly
Yes, you can. And that's what you deserve. And that's what will lead to crappy, buggy software releases.
Get a life, anonymous .
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Yes I do. I was talking about that crashing crap that they call 1.0 release of Gnome. And about the reason it only aquired bugs in 0.99 series - inadequate language and toolkit for UI programming.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... And it is not slow. I use it on P166, and
on PII450, and both just fine, thank you.
At the very least it does not crash and kill my work like Gnome just did this morning, when I tried this 1.0 thing. Gee, Windows 2.0 was more stable.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
You are a paranoid maniac. Go get some laxative, double dose, and stop spitting your stupid crap all over the internet.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
That would be just what we need. Objc based toolkit. Dreams.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
and come back in a couple of days...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
...you stupid ugly bastard son of a shit worm.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
You are stupid and your mom is an ugly bitch.
How's that.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Huh to yourself :)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
NO FUCKING WAY
Let's make 1000 stupid lame comments.
Die, everybody. I hate you all.
Bastards, you killed poor gnome. Poor creature.
Eee.. Just had to boot NT to write a macro in Excel for my wife. Humanities are in the Office land. Firmly. No fucking chance they switch.
And buggy Gnome will not help.
Feeling icky...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... last time I have it like that with one of
KDE 1.1pre release.
I had a dosen windows, and was happily typing code in Emacs. When I switched to xterm on the
other desktop and it went crashing down. Bang.
I was pissed.
NT *never* did it to me like that.
Funny dead crashes after some next VS update - yes. Blue screens when looking at a page with some funny embedded stuff - yes. Never when typing text in an editor.
hate NT anyway.
What I REALLY hate in X though - exactly half of all text fields in various applications, when I hit Backspace, kill a character in front, while the other half kill it behind. I guess Tk and Motif derived stuff likes to kill in front.
Its OK either way - but I want CONSISTENCY.
It will never work with an average user (like I am - though I do administer my boxes, I use them - not hack them). It is too annoying.
We should get 1000 comments.
Bad day.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
..and the ones that were killing my machine all morning long.
Open windows, hit Cancel, hello core.
Drag a windows, hello console, good buy all my session.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
My theory is that most people don't give a flying fuck about this issue
Well, you theory is wrong. I am the most people; and I give a very high flying fuck about this issue. It is so fucking high you can't see it anymore.
Bad day. Bad.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Now, isn't that better than being a mis-informed idiot?
Maybe, but you have not tried that. You are a misinformed idiot. See comments above for explanations.
:)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... no matter how awfully lame they are - that's the only chance.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Just 19 more comments and we hit 1K.
1 kilocomment! Wow... Go bullshit, Go!
Just a little more - a good battle for a last comment will do it.
Ha-ha...
I dare you to post the very last comment.
Just do so.
It does not matter you have nothing to say.
We did it before.
We can do it again.
Blah, blah...
Eh.
Slow day.....
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Long way? Like from typing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill X, to X dying all by itself with this release?
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
That's it!
We will break 2KC when Microsoft is disbanded...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
:)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Brokerig Requests? You are on drugs?
http://www.omg.org/corba/beginners.html
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... I am obviously bored to death...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
blah blah blah...
..slow day...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
It bites.
CORBA, on the other hand is a cool computer technology.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
We will be happy.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Lots of comments.
no text
-- d'arcy poirot
it's only ugly if you want it to be.
-- d'arcy poirot
I tried it...I like it! They can keep their jobs.*grin* Now I can switch back and forth between it and KDE and flame myself incessantly.
That's absurd. KDE uses as many libraries as GNOME, and it's not nearly as fully-featured -- it is just what happens when someone crosses OpenLook with Win98. :)
Why should the authors of GNOME re-invent the wheel? The authors of KDE were so bent on using C++ that they created software which violated the GPL, just because the libraries (Qt) were available.
That's ridiculous. The GNOME agenda is to provide a quality, customizable, completely open-source desktop project. KDE is not only inherently less customizable, it is less flexible because of their choice of c++.
haha! soon this will be the first /. article to break 1000 comments...
but KDE swallows.
Isn't it great when a GNOME or KDE story breaks? We can worry about flaming each other to death instead of the "first post" ludicrosity.
1015 is hardly "big" by any commercial DBMS standards. But then again, Slashdot is running on MySQL, which is about as useful as storing your data in a hash table.
wog
I am not impressed by the install procedure for
this thing. The depencecies had me going all over
the place looking for the rpm's.
Does anybody know where I can _download_ umb-scheme?
A search on deja-news has a lot of people just pointing at the RedHat CD. I don't have the CD here, is there a download somewhere.
(freshmeat doesn't have it, metalab(sunsite) I can't find it, redhat is s-l-o-w today)
I'll have to say, that compiling and installing KDE has been a lot easier than this. However, I'll reserve judment until I can run this thing (never have).
- sigs are for wimps.
You're completely right about setting a record. I wanted to be part of this historical event, and since I suck at code, I can at least add a totally useless comment.
I think that Gnome 1.0 can do 1.0 kind of things - Do you remember Microsoft Windows 1.0 ?
Even twm beats the crap out of that!!
Just a thought!
*--BigMan--- Time flies like an arrow.. but personally I prefer a nice glass of wine!
Now, granted, KDE 1.0 was a bit unstable.. I almost quit using it as a result.
Fortunately, my frustration came to a head just as 1.1 was released.. now KDE 1.1 seems to be fairly rock-solid.
your experience may differ.. but some "zealots" may be speaking the truth.
It was first announced on the front page of Dallas Morning News back on Monday.
;)! Go GNOME!
HURRAH annyway
IIRC kdesupport aren't "hacked-up versions." They are just supplied for convienence incase you don't have them.
-matt
What are you referring to? I use E full time, and have been for the last several months. I can't remember it ever crashing on me, it's quite fast (though admittedly I'm running it on a fast machine), and allows me to configure things exactly how I want them. I'm using the cyrus theme right now. It's very fast, very good looking, and very small. I've got the most screen-realestate that I've had in a long time. The only way that I could get more that I can see would be to run without anything sticky on the screen and use only menus and key-cording, but I don't like that.
Now, E is a little tricky to get working if you're not lucky. Under a default RH 5.2, i just grabbed all the rpms and it worked. Then you do e-conf, and have a real easy way to configure your E setup.
What about E sucks?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Yes, what he pointed out was something of a flaw. As someone else pointed out, we take lessons to drive cars. Anyhow, the whole thing about Win* can't do it either is just a reality check. Linux can't wash my socks, but neither can anything else. It's just a matter of perspective. Complaining about real but understandable problems like they're tremendous problems that there's no excuse for is just silly. Linux can't survive very well on a broken CPU, but come one. Yes, it's theoretically possibly, at least slightly, but it's not very reasonable to complain about that flaw like someone forgot long filenames in a file system.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Hey, I've still got the entire GEM + Artline installation disks, manuals, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have a 5.25" floppy drive to read them!!
Good to see someone else remembers the original Windows Alternative(tm).
MO!
I AM, therefore I THINK!
HMMM.............
"...Beer..."
Does it run with gtk 1.1 or 1.2?
and can I install gtk 1.2 on top of 1.0 and will all my programs that were compiled with 1.0 still work or do I need to recompile them all and update em?
please can some one email me some info on upgrading from gtk 1.0 to 1.2 as I know that 1.2 dropped some functinos from 1.0...
joeja@mindspring.com
I really want to try gnome but I need gtk 1.x first.... and need to make sure all my current apps work still too
Joe
Only 'flamers' flame!
Icon Directed Interactive Online Technology!
I can smell 1000 comments! Come on people!
Gee you really think this'll hit 1000 comments?
So, is it GEE NOAM or GUH NOAM?
Hitler uses KDE to track vegetarian abortion warez!
Me too!
Probably not.
Somebody did make a patch available on the main gnome mailing list, though it might never be intergrated.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I tried that GMC "boom" thing, it didn't do anything weird. Is this bug just for debian.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Im not saying this is impossible, though I am almost 100% sure you are lying, or not telling something odd about your system. Something believable like the session manager messed up, but it just crashed, come on. Maybe if you weren't an AC . . .
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Yes, what big ole bugs in gnome are you talking about.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
what about qt and mico.
by the way, gnome really only needs the gnome-libs, orbit, gtk/glib, imlib, esd (maybe one more). The rest is optional for running gnome apps.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Tough.
Worked fine for me though, and probobly most other people. I find the crashing thing hard to believe. You mean the hole thing, and brought down X with it? Or was it something like gmc.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Everyone with CVS commit access is on gnome-hackers (this being like 250 people at last count). The purposes of gnome-hackers was originally supposed to be just administrative stuff, and it is moving back to that purpose now that development discussion has moved to gnome-devel-list. So there is really no core team per se.
I've been waiting forecver on this. Promised myslef not to update gnome untill 1.0 and yes it's out. KDE watch out..this is FUD on KDE I like both...but prefer gnome!
Natas
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Music made in Linux! Check us out and email the mp3.com people to make Linux a choice of OS'es that the music was made and encoded in!
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
Heheh just wanted to let you guys no :) Both can be set to hide. Actually the pager dosen't even come up on default panel settings. You have to add the applet pager to get it on the panel....so if your bitching about not being able to hide the pager....then why'd u put it there in the 1st place.
natas
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
Sure Gnome is not as far along in development, and as a result is probably not as stable (although I haven't tried it since 0.99.3), but the direction GNOME is heading in is incredible. It's far more configurable and has far more potential then the KDE model.
- --------
Mark my words, neither KDE nor GNOME are going away anytime soon. I just personally am a person with a taste for variety. KDE doesn't (at least yet) give me that configurability. I feel like I'm using Winblows all over again.
-Jamin P. Gray
-------------------------------------------
Jamin Philip Gray
jgray@writeme.com
http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~jpg2/
Celebrate the finer things in life
Downloaded the GNOME 1.0 RPMS (well, at least they were in a folder labeled 1.0...) followed the installation directions from the website EXACTLY, and I get failed dependancies.
Fuck it. I got no time to mess with this. KDE 1.1 installed in about 30 seconds, no problems. works great. I'll stick w/ KDE.
Seriously, if "regular" computer users are gonna use Linux, the whole install process has to be easy and actually WORK.
-geekd
Currently there are some GTK java bindings (they follow GTK widget heirachy rather than AWT), and someone working on Japhar said they were going to do GTK AWT port.
I don't think there are java bindings for either gnome-libs or kdelibs.
Well, I put my vote in for GNOME. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to vote in a flame war, am I?
:)
-- Duane
Huh?
I have no idea, but they have many differences. I don't know if comparing lines of code would tell you which is "better", or who is the "winner". It MIGHT be a ball-park figure, just to compare with other major components, like the kernel, or Window$, etc.
-- Duane
I have no idea, but they have many differences. I don't know if comparing lines of code would tell you which is "better", or who is the "winner". It MIGHT be a ball-park figure, just to compare with other major components, like the kernel, or other OS's like Window$, etc.
-- Duane
I have no idea, but they have many differences. I don't know if comparing lines of code would tell you which is "better", or who is the "winner". It MIGHT be a ball-park figure, just to compare with other major components, like the kernel, or other software like Window$, etc.
-- Duane
I think the idea behind gnome is great but ...
I hate the panel, its clunky, doesn't seem to give me anything I don't get in Windowmaker or Afterstep. And its so obviously MS derived it scares me. Am I missing something, can I kill the panel and get some worthwhile features out of gnome? I prefer just using Windowmaker or even kde. When's kde 2.0 coming.
actually I think both are. I just think gnome's is slightly more clunky. but either way I'm not fond of either.
Happens to me too, but I think it's a packaging problem. rpm seems to work fine on other stuff. Here is the list of gnome packages that give me this error:
ee-0.3.8-1.i386.rpm
imlib-1.9.4-1.i386.rpm
gnumeric-0.15-1.i386.rpm
libgtop-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
gtk+-devel-1.2.0-1.i386.rpm
mc-4.5.23-1.i386.rpm
gtk-engines-0.5-1.i386.rpm
pygnome-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
gtop-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
pygtk-0.5.11-1.i386.rpm
guile-1.3-2.i386.rpm
xscreensaver-3.07-1.i386.rpm
guile-devel-1.3-2.i386.rpm
Anyone have a definitive answer? Is this a config issue or a packaging issue? Will these packages be re-released?
cheers,
keith
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? [Who guards the Guardians?]
It was probably HP-VUE (Visual User Environment). VUE and CDE look a lot alike -- it's quite evident that CDE owes a good chunk of its look-and-feel to VUE. I don't think HP had CDE that long ago (and if so, it probably wasn't commonly used).
I think this is an excellent point, and something I didn't think about when worrying over the last few days if GNOME was "ready enough". Hopefully it's beyond the point of having major embarrasing bugs, even if there are a few minor ones floating around.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I'm getting RPM errors that say:
/var/rpm... :(
/var/rpm, but things may have gotten screwed up by that time. Sigh.
free list corrupt (14736712)- contact support@redhat.com
Anyone else seeing this? I've tried installing the remaining packages, but I got it on a couple of them. I then uninstalled everything GNOME, then tried rpm -Uvh * again, and got the same error again, but in a different RPM. I think somehow RPM corrupted its database in
I sure hope this doesn't mean I have to reinstall my system if I want to keep using RPM... I've got recent backups of
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
You guys are beautiful. I did the --rebuilddb thing, and just in case made sure everything was uninstalled, then rpm -Uvh * worked like a charm.
:)
Thanks.
BTW, so far, no crashes.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I don't really "need" GNOME either; I've always been pretty happy with twm/fvwm2, three xterms and a huge Emacs window. Though some of the GNOME apps are neat, and the concept of running a "more advanced" and cooler looking desktop are also appealing, the bigger reason is that by trying out GNOME, I get to contribute to Linux by seeing how well it works, reporting bugs, etc. Besides, the mail check and slash app applets are cool. :)
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
Well, a lot of this depends on the hardware you're using. I don't believe that Linux has heavy support for TWAIN (the protocol used for scanners, digital cameras, etc), nor many of these devices at the driver level are supported. Best bet would be to write the creator of your hardware and demand a set of Linux drivers, then work on getting the TWAIN support you need, with a program, not unlike a situation in windows.
Rather than TWAIN, Linux has SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy). Try http://www.mostang.com/sane/ . Quite a few scanners are supported and it works as a plug-in for Gimp so that images pop up into a Gimp window for editing/printing/saving. There is some discussion at that site on the inadequacies of TWAIN. SANE supports sharing a scanner over a network which is not possible with TWAIN.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Also known as "the maturity level on slashdot reaches new heights".
More likely if they get a bug report cc'd to 5 other people they'll assume one of the other people it was mailed to will get to it
Ditto to what xeno said
+
even if his argument weren't true, it says "experts TO end users" not "experts ARE end users"...
actually what the hell are you trying to say?
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
I've had trouble getting into ftp.gnome.org at 2am on Wednesdays. And NOW I get in? Hmm, there's nothing in the folder on the official website. What gives?
Hmm, now it's there and I'm getting 264k/s. This is very strange! An anti-slashdot effect!
They said the printing wouldn't be in 1.0
I'm putting the binary rpms (this doesn't violate the GPL, right? You know where to get the source) at ftp://fizgig.dorm.duke.edu/pub/GNOME I'm putting them there as a install/upgrade them, so they're not all there yet. I'll take them down if this kills my connection, but other than that it should be good.
Before I screw things up, how do I set the max number of users with ftpd that comes with redhat? It's being invoked through inetd.
They just lower the point value of your post. This gets explained every time it happens. If you have a post that has very little information and much complaining, it's going to get demoted. If you want to see it, set your threshold lower.
Done. here . Hope you don't mind the png file.
What? You mean the ones I got out of the GNOME-1.0 folder aren't real?!
The gtk+ rpm that was released does not contain gtk-config. This makes compiling things more than a little difficult! Perhaps someone should look into that.
The way I see it, both KDE and GNOME will continue to exist for about 4 years. At that point, people from both sides will decide that they need a new desktop environment. It will take elements from both and will be programmed by programmers from both teams. They will have to create a new toolkit (QT is limited, and some people don't like GTK; besides, they'll be lots more to add in 4 years). Then there will be a standard desktop.
It looks like it's in gtk+-devel, but when I install it, gtk-config --version still gives 1.1.13
I believe that GNOME is trying to follow the FSF philosophy of LGPLing things for which there are many or a common non-free alternative(s), and using the GPL where this isn't the case.
Unless they changed the licensing since the last 0.99.x release, the libraries are under the LGPL and the applications are under the GPL. GNOME developers have always maintained that the core components of the system needed to *build* applications should be under the LGPL. This gives them the copyleft protection w/o scaring away potential GNOME application developers.
- Dauphin
There is no guarantee that they will not change the license. If all of the copyright holders agree to the change, it's pretty much a done deal.
Also, the LGPL has a clause that allows anyone to take a LGPL program, change the notices to GPL and redistribute it under the terms of the GPL. Essentially, they'd be making a fork at the point and any derivatives of that fork will be under the GPL not the LGPL.
I concur. I installed KDE a while back, and still have it, but I decided to go back to FVWM 1.0 after a few days of it. KDE looks nice, but on a 486 - which I use - it sends the load avg. up to 4 before I even see the desktop on logging in. And GNOME required too much stuff that I didn't want to bother getting, so I never tried it.
FVWM is quick and no-nonsense, even if it is a bit ugly.
--
Yeah, it *is* ugly. But I prefer function (and speed) over flash. Each to his own.
I wouldn't recommend FVWM 1.0 for a newbie, though. I'm just used to it after using it for two years.
--
I hope Gnome will one day have features KDE doesn't have. That way KDE can copy from Gnome as well....I hope Gnome will one day have features KDE doesn't have. That way KDE can copy from Gnome as well....
Yeah, I can hardly wait to see KDE copy a feature from gnome. I was really happy when I saw that Gnome would have themes just like KDE always has. Oh wait, we're still waiting for vaporware QT2.0 and the new license. Fool.
OK forst things first. If developers make a release they know to be buggy, but so that people can test it and point those bugs out it is not called 1.0 it is called pre or beta. In my opinion the GNOME people have made it 1.0 too soon, I would say that this one should have been 1.0pre2 and there is still a good amount of things to be fixed to get a pre3 and pre4. Now when KDE 1.0 came out it was up to 1.0pre2 and pre2 at least had all the things that were supposed to work working and all the things that were not supposed to work removed. Let's take a look at Gnome 1.0 ( RPM install on a RH 5.2 system ). Gnome control center crashes each time I click on it too fast. Window manager tab doesn't work, Gnome edit properties only has one stupid drop box ( they could stick it somewhere else if that is all that is supposed to be there ) and a few more glitches like those annoying background conflicts between Gnome background and Enlightenment background. File manager just plain doesn't work, it is more like an alpha, not a production release. It freezes after any file operation, crashes if I try to switch directories too fast ( restarts though ) doesn't remember my preferences doesn't have enough options to customize it's behavior ( less than KDE now isn't that something ). Some other programs. GTOP crashes if you try to make it show something besides process list ( memory or FSs ). Enlightenment crashes without any aparent reason or when file manager is restarted too frequently. What else? A lot of things I guess, but I didn't have enough patience to play with them all. And by the way, it leaks memory so bad that after a few minutes it takes more memory then a fully blown KDE 1.1 session with Netscape and StarOffice 5.0 running together. I have been stupid enough to run my first session without logging out of root and I had to reboot my machine cause it took all the swap and all the memory an I couldn't even telnet into it cause it would time out waiting for telnetd to start.
Talk to me about usability.
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
1.0 is NOT supposed to be a development release. Still it uses a version of GTK+ that breaks half dependencies on my RH 5.2 system.
P.S. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that it also doesn't work
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
If the software doesn't work without recompilation it is not a production quality software, it is at best a beta release.
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
These actions can be performed on the horizontal or vertical axis or both!
1.0 components cores all over the shop. This is from the RedHat RPMS with a clean and patched RH5.2.
Seems to a common problem with Linux software of late - it's rushed to make golden 1.0 and is still beta quality. Still, it's damn cool so I'll stick with it for the time being, as long as prolonged use doesn't drive me mad.
have you ever wrote a decent panel before?
>
I think he ment first to get it...hence the referance to the ftp site. personally i couldn't care less...
Does KDE require a specific wm? If so I think it will lose because the default KDE wm is just plain ugly. In my opinion even redhat 5.1 std. fvwm2 Anotherlevel is more attractive.
I like window maker a lot and I'm just plain happy that it's supposed to work well with gnome. I hope I get around to installing gnome one of these days, but I fear we'll see rh60 before!
What is so hard about installing Gnome? I
downloaded it last night, su'd to root,
and typed rpm -Uvh *.rpm. A few minutes later,
I was in X, with a perfectly functioning
Gnome session.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man -Jebediah Springfield (a.k.a. Hans Sprungfeld)
Autohide is a relatively little known feature of the win9x taskbar, which makes it sort dissapear when the mouse pointer isn't at the bottom of the screen. When it is in dissapear mode there is a line of like two pixels where the taskbar would be, and when you move mouse over that area the taskbar pops up over applications in front view so you can use it. Very intuitive and gives me, when I use win9x, that is, another 15 in^2 over the regular (non-hiding) taskbar.
My question is, why isn't this elegant and wonderful design coppied by the KDE or prefferably GNOME camps? I would totally dig a panel that was invisible until I needed it, and then it was right there. And don't tell me that it can slide into a corner, I already know that. The problem with that is that you have to click a bunch to get it to do that -- once for in and once later for out. A good deal worse than no clicks, eh?
I stand corrected. Thanks.
Woo hoo, with GNOME released that means Red Hat 6.0 might be out within a month and a half.
It's going to be a wild year, folks!
I've been very impressed with how E has been running for me. Occassionally I come across a bug, normally something to do with focus and will have to restart, but haven't had a crash in quite a while. It's gotten much better since DR 14, and with gnome 0.99.x I've been really happy running it as my full-time desktop.
It was first announced on the front page of Dallas Morning News back on Monday
I read that they were going to release GNOME 1.0 on Wednesday through the San Jose Mercury News's Silicon Valley Life section on Sunday. Probably still have the article.
Maybe they did an upgrade to their server/'bandwidth in anticpation...
:-)
...or maybe not.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Funny thing, because you're not logged in as Matts!
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Huh.
That musta been one hell of a 5.25" floppy...
Last I saw, Win1.0 was 3+ megs.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
So often when someone brings up a serious issue like this, people such as yourself just say "well, you can't do it in Windows, either."
So what?
Avoiding criticism by passing the buck is not a solution. We don't want Linux to be "as good as" Windows, we want it to be better. And that isn't going to happen as long as we keep on responding by insisting that Windows can't do it either.
Instead of saying "Windows can't", we should be saying "Linux can!".
I'll admit I don't have many answers to this, but I'm not going to duck the issue by saying "well... Joe Sixpack couldn't set up a printer and scanner easily under Windows either."
Given a choice between two routes, neither of which offer exactly what he wants, I'm pretty sure our hypothetical Joe Sixpack would feel more comfortable going brand-name.
Besides which, I don't think the poster meant this to apply specifically to scanners and printers. He meant to ask (I think) if GNOME can be easily used to accomplish any standard, real-world, "Joe Sixpack" problems.
So I'll re-pose the original question:
"Can GNOME be used by an end-user to easily get his tasks done?"
And now me. If not, then why not? And what has to be done before he can? How long will it take? More importantly, why is this called a 1.0 release, if it can't be used to do 1.0-type tasks?
Now maybe I'm misguided. I haven't used 1.0 yet, and I'll admit I haven't used GNOME at all (well... not since very early versions). It's possible that 1.0 is capable of all this, and my point is moot. I will check it out to see.
But please don't avoid the issue like most people here tend to do.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
>Have SEVERAL of them on different edges and corners of your screen? Common..
What's so common about it?
Seriously, though... the phrase you're grepping for there is "come on".
Please do not display your l33tn3zZ for others to see, as it will only
bring you flames and shame.
--Corey, who's sick to death of seeing 'common' used to mean 'come on'.
Not only will they not deserve liberty or safety, Mr. Franklin, they will be DENIED both!
Which is better if I want to program in java, gnome or Kde?
FVWM is the most butt ugly thing on a desktop I have ever seen. If my dog looked like that I'd shave his butt and teach him to walk backwards. The fact of the matter is that Linux needs some window dressing to attract users. Gnome is a valid effort along those lines.
Themes, configurable GUI's, heaps of different widgets.
For Amiga software it is huge and slow and bloated - compared to GTK (or anythign comparable anywhere else) its incredibly memory-efficient and fast!
Oh it had another thing - *COMPLETELY* transparent backward compatability, and upgrading any widget was as simple as copying in a new file (never any problems with binary compatability because of the way it worked). Also, a widget's code only ever loaded once - in the whole system. Now thats whay I call a shared library
Did I mention it was fully multi-hreaded and thread-safe? It could launch new threads on demand to render difficult widgets concurrently (at least the native BOOPSI could, on which MUI was based).
Corba? Well AmigaOS has these really neat things called message ports which are very memory efficient (~60 bytes each), incredibly fast (no copying of data, no memory allocations), and absolutely reliable (the OS uses them for everything).
Yes - GTK/Gnome has a ways to go, but is still way ahead of the competition - which is why i'm helping it along.
__// `Thinking is an exercise to which all too few brains
_
\\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
Just on time! Great to see this long-awaited release out the door. Have a nice one over at Linux World!
This is cool shmool! GTK/GLIB 1.2, GNOME 1.0, now I just can't wait for E 0.15 to hit. All the base architecture is now completely updated.
GNOME is supposed to be WM indepentant and it is. But there are is a spec sheet (forget whwere) for Window managers to take advantage of GNOME if present.
-- DuckWing
I'm headed to FTP now! :)
Good luck getting it.
I spent a few months compiling gnome
regularly, and I finally decided to just
go with the RPMs, since they're being maintained
fairly well now, and I was sick of having to
delete old versions of everything. For a
project as large as gnome, it's nice to have
something to manage it so you don't
have to keep up with the tiring pace of development just to figure out how to upgrade!
Not all the programmers work for free. :)
I actually have a friend in the group
coding Gnome, and I can't believe he gets
paid for this.
But thanks to everyone. The guys at RHLabs,
as well as the hundreds of coders really
working for free to bring a kick-ass product
to the linux desktop!
I'm sick of bitching like this.
.10, both through
The only people I know who have these
problems are people who have messed up their
own distros by trying to force installs,
or hack things so they work. So if you
don't understand the way your own system
is set up, stop posting Slashdot about it,
and go learn!
Gnome has been installing and upgrading fine
for me since version
source first, and now RPMs.
as of this post, we only need 9 more to hit the top 10. C'mon everyone...more inane posts like this one, and we'll make it easily! ;-)
I got the message too, and first emailed support@redhat.com as instructed, only to discover (no big surprise here tho) that it's for paying customers... I think this is kinda evil, given that the error has a simple (but undocumented) fix. It really reminds me of Oracle: "orainst has encountered a fatal error. Please contact Oracle global support."
Now it's installed and I can't say I'm impressed.. It seems worse than 99.8 and has already crashed twice and eaten my panel config.
"...Is this world not a call I can screen out" --
- Penguin Toy does not crash or maim my e.
- Penguin Toy is really annoying.
:-) (Where's the elephant toy?) - I can replicate the "Window Managers" section coredump.
:-( - I still can't set XEmacs as my default editor in Gnome Edit Properties.
- Gmc isn't crashing on me, but seems to be, um, suboptimal.
- The way I have things configured now, some keyboard shortcuts don't seem to be working correctly.
:-(
Everything else seems to be okay, so far. I'd be happier if everything were perfect, but I've found no show-stoppers yet. They do need to work on getting more documentation in place; help gives you nothing too much of the time. Installation went smoothly for me after I fixed rpm's "free list corrupt" problem by doing an rpm --rebuilddb.Gnomophiles will probably like this enough to upgrade now, while others might want to wait a few days for some more kinks to be ironed out.
King Babar
Babar
I just clicked on the Gnome Help Browser from the pane. It appears to work, but on start-up, two Gtk-CRITICAL errors popped up in a console box.
I'd have to say that parts of this release do seem to be lightly tested. I think its bad karma when the help system pumps out debugging output. :-(
King Babar
Babar
I agree and I've stated it before...
Why do some people here belive Linux is only for the initiated few?
Keep up the good work Mathew.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Dude.. Apparently 99% of the people who use computers in the real world "point and drool". So I'm guessing all YOU really want is to keep Linux as your own secret club, to keep out kids, grammas and clerks so you can look down your nose at people because they don't know what "chmod" means, or the difference between $ and %. MS Windows may be unstable and crappy but it got popular because its relatively easy to use by most people (including programmers) - and everyone, even you, can use it after a very short time. Linux is much better than Windows and deserves to be used by everybody some day. But until techno snobs like you get over the "I-can-use-a-command-line-I'm-better-than-you" attitude Linux is gonna remain some little backwater OS used by thunder geeks late into the night while Uncle Bill makes another $1 Billion because everyone will buy Win2000 (Win 95 takes 20 minutes to install and I can watch TV and drink a coffee while its doing it, and I can be surfing the net(or playing Quake) 10 minutes after that...How long does Linux currently take? How long will it take if my sister the hairdresser tries to do it?)
Do you smell an Amiga OS? Must be my imagination...
Maybe Linux won't be "cool" if everyone can use it.
Grow Up.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Duh, C++ has been standardized since Novembber of 97 by ANSI. The difference between pre-ANSI C++ and ANSI Standard C++ is night and day. Obviously you haven't tried it for a while if you don't know this, so I'll be nice. As for you OO comments, I won't dignify that with a response...
Okay I will - You're a Moron!
If you program C++ properly, with Smart pointers (see any Design Patterns site or book) and good MVC design, you can have a good quality product with much better memory management (Now don't tell me you NEVER fogotten to free() a malloc()?) and a very small footprint (nothin' like lean mean code!).
Now, what was that you were saying about being a mis-informed idiot?
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Enough bickering...Lets work on this! UI ideas that break out of the "Window" box in more ways than one. If this can make Linux/other OSes easy for the physically challenged to use, then that's all the niche market I need to work on(Sorry Bill, I don't like your Ad!)
Thanks for dropping a little ray of reality in here Nick...do I feel stoopid.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
I have no problem with malloc() and free(), that's not what I was getting at. I'm talking about a coding "style" in which new and delete (or malloc()or free()) are wrapped in a class (or struct I suppose) where the allocation is done automatically by the constructor and deallocation is done by an object's destructor. You can then treat objects requiring dynamic allocation as local objects whose memory is automatically returned to the heap when they go out of scope.
I actually agree with you that bad programmers cause memory leaks, mostly because the "forget" to delete a pointer (that was my point). This is just one of many TECHNIQUES that can be employed by programmers to make it easier to eliminate memory leaks. It has nothing to do with how malloc() and free() are implimented, only how they are used by the programmer. Couple some of these techniques with some good exception handling (to catch and deal with those "bad_alloc" errors) and you can write some pretty lean and efficient code.
Hell, I can write good code using this style (and the the good old Model-View-Controler pattern) for MS Windows (that's how I earn money to feed my kid). Imagine what it can do on a really good platform....
I was simply pointing out that most of AC's "facts" were not that at all. This is not a "C++ is better than C" post, I use them both (I do like C++ better, admittedly). I simply like people who spout off to atleast know what they are talking about (C is an OO language indeed!!)
So:
(1) yes I am using Windows at the moment (at work) but that really doesn't mean anything in THIS particular argument
(2)I do know how to use them, thank you very much (and I've been doing it for a few years now)
(3)I've never had a problem with my compiler
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
I have some thoughts about the Red Hat (SuSE, Caldera ... ) way to make money. What had RedHat Inc. been without the thousands of volunteer programmers???
- -
That I'm trying to say is that free software and capitalism isn't a great combination. (This is a purely economic question, personally I agree to 100% that free software is the best method to develop software technology).
-----------------------------------------------
A hypothetic question: If the propetiary software software business dies, who will then finance the programmers, so they can buy their food, their Coca Cola, and thier computers, on which they are programming their free software ???
-----------------------------------------------
The only way to earn money (with the GPL license) is to sell support. And how many companies will buy support? Many will probably use company internal knowledge to solve their problems. And what about private persons?
Any suggestions?
"But do busineses have social consciences? That's the question."
Why would they? Business is business, not charity. Why would companies donate money for software, which their competitor can use for free? Of course you have the support thing, but...
That's the sad reality. Capitalism isn't the most efficent way to develop technology.
(Don't call me a supporter of the government type, which was used in Soviet Union. Technology was certainly not free for everyone there...)
End-user market small??? Where have you heard it?
"rpm --rebuilddb" fixed the problem for me too.
It's amazing how fast Gnome has progressed in the last few months. I'm finding glitches here and there in the 1.0.0-1 series rpms, but so far it seems stable and usable.
So I decided to install gnome and let me tell you, .1. In fact, it should be called gnome .1.
the panel core dumps, complains with GDK Warning message on the console etc, atleast (quite honestly) and the control panels can hardly even be ran without crashing! It is absolutely no more stable than gnome
Redhat: Get a fucking clue and stop trying to push software that is not ready down our throats!
Chris Knight
The ignorance of *your* flame is amazing. I simply can not accept the fact that gnome is crashing because I have the incorrect libs installed. I installed the exact libraries that gnome documents said to install. In fact, old libraries of gnome are not causing conflicts, I never installed gnome before. Now, learn how to use your shift key and correct capatilization or go to hell.
Respectfully,
Chris Knight
Read my reply to the previous thread. Gnome is simply not release quality. When you slap '1.0' on a product, it's expected not to crash *often*. The Gimp 1.0 hardly ever crashes for me (if ever). However, Gnome can be forced to crash by simply running the panel!
Insane Bug Fix Mode my ass. I can force gnome 1.0 to crash in many ways.
I especially agree with Number 3
The Gnome developers continuously seem unwelcome to integrating their changes into GTK.
POP! Goes the core dump!! :)... heh.. what a crappy release. Thanks GNOME! KDE couldn't have gotten better advertisement if they paid for it.
Having been a C++ zealot in a previous life I am compelled to ask how Donald Knuth could have discovered all that useful stuff way back when. You do not suppose he may have dirtied his hands with Fortran or Assembler do you?
Good and useful programs can be created for KDE and for GNOME. If we have to suffer competition between these desktops, let it be a competition of how many programs, how useful they can be and how cleverly they are designed. Who really cares if they are coded on punch cards or even patch cable cards. KDE has some cool features and GNOME has some cool features. Both teams deserve plenty of credit for what they have brought to Free Software. Both desktops will undoubtedly be better for having the other to measure their progress against. Bashing Free Software efforts is an exercize for those who would restrict our freedom as programmers (M$ Moles?).
Programming language dogma quit being a measure of SW fluency about the same time that vacuuming the lint out of core quit being a recurring requirement - unfortunately somebody forgot to inform the neo cyber zealots. Get a life guys - write some free software!
(Not directed at any msg in particular but the seediness of the thread in general)
I've got a good idea.
Why not try and make to 2000 RELAVANT comments.
This would indeed be a novelty. I suspect the 'last post' comments will get deleted by Rob anyway.
My view on GNOME: it has potential but version 1.0 was released too soon.
Cool Linux PC Badges!
Agreed 100%.
.so that had the
:-)
I had some problems due to the now-famous RedHat
compiled lib problem, which I kludged by setting
LD_PRELOAD to an (unrelated)
symbol I ws looking for. This from a Linux newbie.
But then I saw the Gnome/Enlightement desktop. I
played with it. I tweaked it. I themed it. And
it was good.
To anyone slamming their head against a problem
trying to install Gnome: keep slamming. A very
Cool Thing will reward your efforts, and you will
have increased your own knowledge.
Part of the Second American Revolution!
Anyone know what this means:o me-1.0/debian/README
:D
"Coming RSN!"
I saw it in ftp://ftp.circ.us.eu.org/mirrors/ftp.gnome.org/gn
maybe some clue as to when the debs will be out?
the rpm are already here!!
i can't wait...
-- four
So, i just installed Gnome 1.0.1 from CVS. I will wait a mounth or more until i compile this stuff again. But i need to know why they removed the Gnome 1.0 "pre" from the main ftp site. It was a joke??? And i think it's not very stable to release it 1.0 (i'm getting various GTK-CRITICAL ...). KDE or Gnome? Use both.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
icewm (the most stable wm out there) is the best wm to run with Gnome. I can't wait until Marko Macek release a new version. But don't use gnome-session if you don't want your X fucked up sometimes. panel is great.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
icewm had some problems with i18n in the latest versions (compiling). Why not icewm 1.0? It's very stable but not perfect (nothing is). And now that Gnome 1.0 is out...
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
Yes, it's a session manager. But if anything of Gnome crash, X crash. I prefer starting icewm and panel.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
The GNOME panel is awesome...definitely the best panel I've ever used. It's pretty, it's configurable, and with the 1.0 release it's fast too....awww yeah. No more KDE for me.
quit bitching and compile from the sources...that's what I did and it works great. I tried the RPMs first but they only fscked things up.
Ummm, if you're grabbing the source, you're compiling, not recompiling. I didn't have to build it more than once. The RPMs *do* work on some systems, just not all of them, which is most likely the cause of having a previous hybrid GNOME install. I haven't heard anybody complain about the DEBs yet.
hmmm, funny. GNOME's panel starts right up for me, just as fast as KPanel. GNOME's panel has just as much functionality as KDE's as far as I can see. You can DnD (which works very well...I don't know what you're talking about), swallow apps, and add applets. Plus it has "drawers" and you can configure it pretty nicely.
What kind of file manager integration does KPanel offer that GNOME's panel should add?
Simply choose the one you like better and that's it. Perhaps you can even debate the reasons for your choice to share some thoughts with others.
** Don't force others to follow your choice, if that's the only reason. **
Whether it should be KDE, Gnome etc. is a matter of taste, taste is personal and, thus, can not be argued upon.
Personally, I like Gnome + simple E better than KDE. I still install KDE at users, that don't want to fiddle to much with their desktop.
I think the Gnome combo is more elegant and more "crispy" than KDE.
As with any other OSS/GPL'ed piece of software, you're free to do whatever you prefer.
Argueing upon this matter will just make a fool out of yourself. This is bad for the Community and everyone will loose a bit.
Best regards,
Steen
Yes, it's true guys - 1.0 is finally released!
Don't blame us - we were really working very hard during the last months and weeks to make you that release the best it could ever be - and most of us spent a large amount of their spare time into that release.
Just keep in mind that Free Software lives from volunteers!
We've done our best - and we're very excited about it.
For now, it's party time.
Happy Gnomeing,
Martin
It has. A lot of work has been done since 0.99.3, ...
bugs were fixed, new documentation was added,
Of cause, it's not yet perfect - but now that
we're having a stabilazed API we can concentrate
on the help system and on writing documentation.
Maybe it was a bit premature, maybe ..
...
...
At least for me, 1.0 means that the core components like gnome-libs have reached their
prime time. They have a stable and clean API
that won't change very much in near future.
This is an important issue for application programmers, 1.0 signals them that they can
write applications that use that API without
worrying that their Apps may get broken due to
API changes,
Another issue is that people will prefer writing
documentation about code that does not change
every few weeks.
Releasing Gnome as 1.0 means that people can actually start using it and develop any cool
applications they like with it.
Of cause it has bugs - every new software product has them, but you can start writing any cool
applications you want right now
So since it's already late at night, I'd say
happy Gnomeing,
Martin