Slashdot Mirror
Doom Source Now Under GPL
Scipius wrote to us with the news that Game OverLaird John Carmack has
re-licensed the Doom source code under the GPL. Things like this make my heart beat with joy.
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use Doom;
I want Wolf3D source code GPL too!
What you say is basically correct, the code is not amenable to being extended to 3D. It's a rewrite, as Carmack noticed when he wrote Quake.
However some of the source mods already available have provided pretty good workarounds. Boom, for example allows you to create "fake" ceilings and floors so you can be underwater. More importantly there is a silent teleporter that preserves angle and momentum, so you can create some very good 3D effects by seamlessly joining two different sections of map as you walk up some stairs, or take an elevator (also supported.)
Some source mods also allow real heights. You can walk across the heads of a line of imps, take a ride on a cyber, control vertical aiming, jump, use weaker gravity, and look up and down.
It isn't perfect, but DOOM was always about doing as much as you can within the engine limits.
Frac is right, Carmack wanted to release the Q3 engine open source and has stated so deep down in his .plan file a .plan.
.plan update for about 3 years and don't remember anything like that. Maybe you could show it to me on finger.planetquake.com?
while back. There was some conflict amongst the other members of ID that ended up with Carmack agreeing to keep
it closed source. You can find it all in his
I read every Carmack's
-jfedor
> Hmmm... The LinuxGame distro.
How about Linux GOD (Games Only Distribution)
Hmm, yeah, now that I think of it, I was talking about the Doom binaries -- not the same thing as the source. Self, take a hundred lines: "I must not post without thinking"...
How does a game engine relate to a programming interface? And who cares that DirectX 7 provides you with the ability to do what DOOM did 7 years ago? The point of having the DOOM source code is to improve and enhance DOOM, not to make new and different engines based upon another engine (though that is a possibility.)
Furthermore, DOOM is completely and utterly different from DirectX 7. DirectX 7 is a library; DOOM is an application. People don't link their program with libdoom.so; they do so with DirectX.so (or whatever it is in the Windows world). It's comparing apples and oranges.
Dark Forces did something like that. I believe someone also did that back before Quake came out using multiple .WADs and a hacked version of the .EXE.
My Freakin Blog
If Slackware used to include it, they did so illegally. That's probably why it's not in there anymore. Read DOOMLIC.TXT (available in, e.g., the xdoom source, or lxdoom, or any number of other doom derivitives) while you still can; it was a remarkably restrictive license, which pretty much everyone who hacked on it disregarded (and id didn't seem to care). Now that it's legal to redistribute/modify/etc, we don't have to worry anymore.
[wrhodes@dt032nc0 linuxdoom-1.10]$ cat
19
static fuck = 0;
fprintf(stderr, "fuck %d \r", fuck++);
"fuck you, pussy!\nget the fuck out!",
"hey, ron! can we say\n'fuck' in the game?",
"suck it down, asshole!\nyou're a fucking wimp!",
boolean message_dontfuckwithme;
static boolean message_nottobefuckedwith;
message_dontfuckwithme = false;
message_nottobefuckedwith = false;
message_nottobefuckedwith = false;
if (showMessages || message_dontfuckwithme)
if ((plr->message && !message_nottobefuckedwith)
|| (plr->message && message_dontfuckwithme))
message_nottobefuckedwith = message_dontfuckwithme;
message_dontfuckwithme = 0;
message_nottobefuckedwith = true;
extern boolean message_dontfuckwithme;
message_dontfuckwithme = true;
[wrhodes@dt032nc0 linuxdoom-1.10]$ cat
5
wipe_shittyColMajorXform
wipe_shittyColMajorXform((short*)wipe_scr_start
wipe_shittyColMajorXform((short*)wipe_scr_end, width/2, height);
// Massive bunches of cheat shit
Of course, that doesn't compare too well with the Linux source, but pound for pound plenty of prurient pontification.
(BTW, have any of you tried to enter source code in a
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Because games eat up a lot of time, and there's still no MS-Office beater, or real simple (stupid-proof) configurable Linux system out there yet?
Once those obstacles are overcome, I'm sure games will come out of the woodwork...
I hope DOOM Legacy will open their sources, but they have been the least willing to do so to date. They will sometimes provide source to those who ask for the purpose of developing auxilliary programs, but they have expressed unwillingness to let "competing projects" use their code. Doom Legacy is a very impressive source mod, I just question their willingness to open their sources publically. If so, that's good.
Nearly all the other projects except Bruce Lewis's GL Doom have offered sources with binaries, and I expect most will convert to GPL now. Bruce Lewis lost his sources in a flood, thereby killing an important project, and that's what Carmack is referring to in the linked article. He intended to release them, after beta, but it never made it there.
I'm not involved with this project, I just found it a few days ago and it looks cool. It's about time we start using 3D for things besides shoot-em-up games!
Half-Life has been released; Daikatana hasn't.
I'm thinking... Doom 9mm... Yeah, has a nice ring to it. Give it here. Now...
Every bit of code that's GPL'd helps to advance OS a bit furthur. Even if it's somewhat outdated, it still is likely to contain useful ideas.
God does not play dice - Einstein
Not only does God play dice, he sometimes throws them where they
what can i say, i just love that game!
icq:=22921393;
Isn't quake a derivative work from doom?
I've always wanted to fiddle with th doom code, what a chance!
I've always loved Doom anyways.
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
jdube is who
i hope they will gpl quake too when they feel that quake is obsolete
What about a GnomeDoom widget or a GtkDoom widget, based on this source code? I haven't looked at the code yet, so this might be impossible, but that could be kinda cool, or at least a worthy hack?
... I could see that ... :)
Or how about an XML-based WAD file format? Might be worth hacking that up.
Hmm, or a JNI-based Java bindings for Doom
Oh well, back to work.
Well now that it is under the GPL they (distro's) could put it in their distro. That brings up another question. There are a number of games (not tetris) that are GPL'd and good, but they are not in any of the distro's (please correct me if I am wrong.) Hmmm... The LinuxGame distro. Nah I have homework to do.
Do you changes clothes while making the "chee-chee-cha-cha-choh" transformation sound?
Patrick Barrett
Yebyen@adelphia.net
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
As I say in the title, not GPL so I couldn't put any doom spin-offs on my site. Now I can. Get over it.
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
jdube is who
In the JC statement quoted, he says this should prevent 'another gldoom episode'. Any idea what this was?
Although I agree with you in general about the retroactivity of changing a license, I'm not sure about this case, but it doesn't matter. Many groups will change to the GPL anyway because ``it's the right thing'', and those that don't will either eventually langush while the GPLed versions (version? they might all merge) flourish. The non GPLed versions might eventually be forced to turn GPL as features in the GPLed versions become popular and the non-gpled versions start to incorporate those changes. I expect all versions of doom will eventually merge back into one.
In general, software (open or closed) seems to be much like Highlander: there can be only one.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Carmack has a rather interesting relationship with Free software - this is quoted from his .plan after he'd won a big pile of money playing blackjack in Vegas (Feb. 98):
I won $20,000 at the tables, which I am donating to the Free Software Foundation. I have been meaning to do something for the FSF for a long time. Quake was deployed on a dos port of FSF software, and both DOOM and Quake were developed on NEXTSTEP, which uses many FSF based tools. I don't subscribe to all the FSF dogma, but I have clearly benefited from their efforts.
So, while he perhaps isn't RMS's biggest fan (philosophically), you've got to admire a guy who gives back to the community like this.
This is very good for the Free Softwares. A lot of people have heard about Linux because of Id's games and because their were a lot of Linux Doom/Quake servers.
When they released Doom source code, this was even cooler because you cold look at a good professional pseudo-3D engine.
Now this is even cooler and will help Open source games (for this kind of game of course).
Thanks John, thanks.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
I played Doom long ago on my room-mate's computer, but never bought my own copy. Do I need to buy a copy, or is Doom now free to use as well as open source?
The wads aren't freely distributable. This is the equivalent of releasing Bison as free software while making everyone pay $20 for the parser skeleton, or releasing Emacs as free software while making any Emacs Lisp code necessary for it to run, an extra charge. "Free software" that only works with a proprietary module, is not free at all. (I understand that libre isn't the same as gratis, but I'd at least expect that it'd be _possible_ for libre software to be obtained gratis.) And no, I don't already have a copy of DOOM, so I'd have to pay extra in order to be able to use this "free" software.
My roommate and I were just talking about the source we'd /really/ like to see released... Commander Keen and Duke Nukem (the original). These games were the best. Brings back fond memories of the days of BBS's, when life was simple... :-)
Back on topic, this is really cool news. Granted this isn't cutting edge technology by a long shot, but it should still be fun!
--
Ian Peters
What happens if everyone starts releasing there stuff GPL? Could a flood of GPL cause programmers to be spread too thin? Just an idea. I hope not.
glDoom was closed source. Naturally, the guy developing glDoom had no backups. And as history has show many times, if you don't do backups, your hard drive will fail. Pretty dumb mistake if you ask me (or anyone else).. The development died.
If glDoom would have been GPL, the odds are that atleast a few people would have had relatively up to date sources, and development could have been continued.
Not a big loss though, DooM Legacy is much better anyway.
Why can't he just dual-license it? Cygnus does this, I believe. Release a GPLed version, charge for a different license.
(Note: I suspect there is a reason -- from what I understand of game companies, many would just steal the source and try to disguise the fact -- catching them would be a major pain. And of course Carmack probably doesn't want them to see how he does what he does..)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
People don't link their program with libdoom.so
Actually, this is an interesting idea. Why not, especially now that the source is available?
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Come on! Doom is years behind the current software technology. What good does it do to put it under the GPL? Or even distribute the source? It's only a marketing ploy by id software to increase the worship of Carmack!
Here's your REAL open source movement:
I don't fall for it one bit!
Release the code to Quake III
----
Lyell E. Haynes
+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't the DOOM source already open? I know you've been able to download it, and look through it. there there have been very many projects based on doom out on the web, such as GL doom (although it appears that that project was lost in a hard drive crash *shudder*... maybe argument for having many copies of the source code around the world).
How would changing the licsens to GPL effect people already working on projects based on doom? (or were these projects completly new implementations, not based on the DOOM code).
I was under the impression that DOOM was under a BSD style licens now, did they do this to prevent propitary spinnoffs?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I'm pretty sure that doom was under a BSD style licens, or not licensd at all. since there were many DOOM spinnofs on the web
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Slackware 3.5 has doom with it. However, it is the shareware version so there is no licence conflict there at all.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
id didn't seem to be going after anybody, but my reading of the previous license seems to indicate that distributing modified versions of the DOOM source code was not permitted. The only thing permitted was "Educational Use," which included using parts of the code in your own programs (which you were allowed to distribute, even for money), but nowhere was permission given to distribute the entire original source code with modifications.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Actualy, this should be pretty posible, considering that DOOM worked on 20mhz 386s. Since you only have to worry about low rezes, and 4color grayscale graphics, I'm sure a palm could hack it.
As for the display, Just make most of the levels 'bright' EI more light then dark, and you should be able to get a pretty playable game out of it...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
There seems to be some confusion about the previous license of the Doom source. Based on my reading of the license (IANAL, however), you were allowed to use portions of the source in your own programs (which you could do anything with, including sell, and were not required to make the source code to them available). This is referred to as "Educational Use" in the license. However, the license also specifically prohibited you from redistributing the original source code. It seems like somewhat of a judgement call how much source code constitutes using it in your own work (which you can do whatever you want with, BSD-style), and how much constitutes a derivative of the original Doom source (which is "all rights reserved").
This presents an interesting situtation now. Although it has been re-licensed under the GPL, I have a copy of the source code under the old license, and they can't rescind this license. Therefore, I could take some functions from it, and use them in my own closed-source program (which the license allows), thereby effectively bypassing the requirements of the GPL.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
There seem to be a lot of misconceptions here.
/all/ to anyone about this. A reupload, a blurb on Doomworld(marvelous, marvelous doom site, nothing comes close, although it looks like a few of the dynamic injokes got trashed earlier to make up for slashdotting), that's it.
The Doom source code was released roughly two to three years ago, using the Linux source port (But heavily cleaned up), because the DOS stuff still had lame-o sound code which they couldn't distribute. Descent had this problem too when it released soon thereafter. I just figure this is worth saying as most everyone has been stating 'Oh, cool! It's out now!'
And.. Id has not been making this as a publicity stunt. Carmack has wanted to change the license for quite awhile but he needed signatures from everyone who worked on the original base, and it seems he finally managed to work that up. Not to mention that he has hardly even stated much at
As far as the source ports themselves go... Yes, there is a GL port. Doom Legacy GL, Doom GL, etc.. Just poke around the Source Ports section of the aformentioned doomworld(.com) site. The currently 'accepted' uber-port, zdoom, does not support this, though. There is a port of *that* coming for Linux soon, however, along with Doom Legacy.
The engine is a lot more flexible than many people give it credit as well. It's *not* totally outdated, it's merely a different method of handling things.
Oh well.
-- Patrick McCarthy, wondering where his login went off to, I didn't delete it but it's not here?
So badly wrong. Direct X 7 is very cool but it is certainly not open source. If it was, any one would be free to pick it apart and put the best bits into another cool program.
Direct X will never be adopted outside of the MS world (like Active X) precisely because it is not open source.
A GPL graphics engine would allow games developers to use a set of tools to create their game (as Direct X does) and it would allow them to create whatever improvements they needed to the engine. The difference is that those improvements would then be shared under the GPL so that, where they were any good, we could all benefit.
In general, software (open or closed) seems to be much like Highlander: there can be only one.
Interesting statement. In theory it might be reasonable, but in practice, it defies reason. Choice is a good thing, no matter if it's free or not, but in a free marketplace, you usually have more choice because different choices can peacefully coexist and evolve together. It's competition and symbiosis at the same time.
Actually I think that's not a marketplace mechanism but related to the users and creators. The same force that drives people to engage in flame wars about their favorite products is the force that ensures variety and evolution within the free (software) world.
As long as people engage in flame wars about Linux vs BSD, Gnome vs KDE, Emacs vs Vi, etc., the choices will keep evolving and getting better. Intuitively we would like to see a single perfect solution, but since everybody wants that and everyone is different, we'll inevitably have several choices. As long as taste varies and people choose, there will be different choices, and there can be a lot.
-- Eavy (: Linux Is Not UniX
People don't link their program with libdoom.so; they do so with DirectX.so (or whatever it is in the Windows world). It's comparing apples and oranges.
.lib s, or you can dynamicaly call functions from .dlls. I think, most programs link to a small .lib that has imports for a bunch of DLLs.
well, you can staticaly link with
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Its just too easy these days :-)
Lazy and bored at home.
As it has been stated before, the DOOM engine is not groundbreaking or earthshattering by any stretch. But being open, for all to see is something of a learning experience for the budding programmers amongst us. Everyone has to start with their 'hello world.' program. Poking around and coding modifications for DOOM may be a 'hello world' for newbie game programmers, like myself. I've always been semi-mystified when I think about how I myself would go about coding a 3D game engine, even just a rudimentary one. To poke around with the DOOM souce would give me some general ideas on what facets I'd need to take into consideration. And hopefully I'd learn something and then go write the Quake2^1024 engine.
No one learned anything from looking at code they don't understand. Even if id released the Quake3 source, I'm sure I'd be clueless. Something on the lines of DOOM or Wolf3D is more my level. id is doing a service to the budding programmers by releasing the source so they can stick their noses in it and see how it ticks. It doesn't benefit them to cling to it, no one is paying for a DOOM license last time I checked.
Anyway. I think I shall take a look at it. Might learn something interesting or useful. What a novel concept.
kaniff -- Ralph Hart Jr
The guy, Bruce Lewis was working on an Open GL port of DOOM for 15 months. although he had not reliced the code, he planned to after beta testing. Unfortunetly, he lost *all* his code and his backups in a flood. although other posters had said that it was a hard drive failure, it was not. there were backups made
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I've seen the IWAD that comes with DUMB. That's all i've seen. Please correct me, and show me a FREE IWAD.
Open Source works great for very modular software projects like an operating system, web server, desktop environment, compiler, etc.
Open Source projects can be created from a small spark of creativity. Linux was created because Linus wrote a small program to help explore some advanced features of the 386, he didn't set out to write an operating system at first.
Games on the other hand usually start out because someone has a vision and a desire to make money.
20 hour a day closed source development driven by a love of the game and greed are powerful motivating factors that can beat open source.
One of the mottos of open source projects is "release early, release often." This is because they are usually modular programs that can be useful without being "finished." People who contribute to open source projects do it because they use the code to solve a problem and if the software lacks a feature then they code it up themselves.
Very few people out there need games to solve a problem. Some people code for fun and games are fun but the majority of open source coders are trying to solve their own personal project or job.
OK, this might be a little sour-grapes, since I also submitted this and was rejected, but if you look at the DoomWorld page, there's no actual citation for JC's words. I checked out his .plan, it hasn't been updated since the first. I don't know where else they would have gotten the info. Maybe John had mailed them, but why them particularly? Why not tell everyone else?
I've mailed the guy who posted the news (Linguica) for clarification - I just hope it is true after all.
Why are there always psuedo "purists" out there who twist and churn the open source definition to suit their obligatory flame/whine against software companies that open up their sources? In fact, Carmack wanted to have the Quake3 engine developed open-source, but other founders won't let him (learned from the already-defunct planetcrap.com)
BTW, don't get me wrong, I like choice. However, if there's only one `choice' available, at least let it be good.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
IANAL, but these companies that made proprietary add-ons based on the old license are not required in any way to comply with the new license (in this case, the GPL) Jeremy
Looking for a Python IRC bot?
Yeah, big deal. It isn't like they GPL'd quake 2 which would have use to lots of people since its semi contemporary. Of course that would be difficult since ion storm paid that huge 500 k or something license fee and STILL doesn't have that crappy Daikatana game finished.
They can get just about anyone they want I'd be willing to bet. First of all, people already worship them. And secondly the company only has about 20 employees, and only two or three programmers.
Of course they are not going to sell there latest and greatest engines and games, that's how they make money.
Id supports Open source in the true sense of the word, not for commercial gain, but for experimenters to play with. They've also donated $20,000 to the FSF, (well Carmack did) and Carmack works on the GLX g200/400 drivers for linux
What exactly would be the benefit for them to release quake 3? if they couldn't make any money from it, they probably would never have even written it. You'll get you're q3a code in 2005. If you don't like it, why don't you write you're own 3d game engine?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Carmack has got to be the most generous, most gamer community friendly, least biz/pr/hype oriented guy there is. He likes to nurture programmers and spark creativity. That's why he released it.
Well, Linguica says he got an email direct from JC himself. It still seems odd that he'd email instead of .planning, but that's not really my buisness.
www.textfire.com -- 5th annual interactive fiction competition. 90% of teh games run on linux.
Live coverage at www.pushove.com
when Push Comes to Shove
First was the initial release of the Doom source,
he released the Doom source.... so we could just look at it and drool? Forgive me for my ignorance, please, but I'm not quite understanding the concept behind this. Reminds me of the whole Corel spill (ok, not really) and all these other times I've heard of source releases, only to hear whelps of joy when the stuff was GPL'ed...
Thanks
Insert mind here.
They can then make money off the game by two ways: First of all, they can sell it to the general public, who just wants a game to play and doesn't care about the code, and secondly, they can license the code to other developers for a fee that includes support and development tools that id uses in-house for their own production.
Well, the way things are now, Id provides almost no support whatsoever for there product. If Id opensourced there engen, people would get for free what now costs them $700,000. support would be a large burden on a company of less then 20. while I'm sure it would be posible for them to make some money with open source, I doubt it would be as much. remember, Id is basicaly selling source, not support (in addition to games). Going opensource would cause them to lose at least half there revinue stream. Other companys would also be able to sell support, why would they want to give themselves compition?
While Id opening there source would be good for you it might not be the best thing for Id. and since there writing the code, they can do whatever they want to with it. If you have a problem with it, then don't buy the game
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
A long while ago (either in a .plan update or in an interview, I can't rremember), Carmack had mentioned that he was waiting for the last Quake engine licensee to get their game out of the door so that he could release the Quake source code. That's good though the puzzling thing is that he refers to John Romero/Ion Storm's Daikatana as this last licensee. I thought that they were using the Quake ][ engine.
He also recently donated $10k to Brian Paul of Mesa (www.mesa3d.org) John Carmack rocks..
Hello all,
from what I'll ask you will recon I am not a big gamer (I liked Wolfenstein3D, though).
So, I understand there is a shareware and full version of doom. The code of which version is available?
I have seen these Win32 ports, but all seem to require doom... I guess they require the original Doom written for DOS, but which one? The shareware or the full? Is there something that is understood by default and I don't get it?
Has the code for the DOS port been available previously (but under a different license, non GPL), or only the Linux port was open?
I would appreciate your inputs, I am looking forward on trying some Win32 ports.
Sigged!
Maybe Commander Keen code isn't id Software's property.
At that time they sticked with Apogee and that could be a problem.
-jfedor
John Carmack seems to be doing a _lot_ for the open source community these days. First was the initial release of the Doom source, although it wasn't under an open license, it was still damned cool for the time. Now, he's helping with the GLX project for the Matrox cards (and supposedly doing what he does best, wild and crazy optimizations :) and today releases Doom under the GPL.
Three cheers for Mr Carmack!
--
Jeremy Katz
Ohhhh yes. If the service weren't so expensive, this would be a cool hack for the 7-series.
Actually, it might almost be playable on the larger screen of the last-generation Newton (The 2000/2100 models). They already have Ethernet support. Hmmmmm....
Anybody remember NewtonQuake?
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
Although having doom is the coolest thing since... having doom, doom is not written to well, in the sense that its gonna be a bitch to make it cool. Now quake on the other hand... That would really kick some ass. I'd be hacking on that till the day I die.
#include "all the standard idealistic posts about how we should create a new open-source standard for X (where, in this case, X = games) ".h
Can your IM do this?
This is indeed good news. :)
I worked on the Doom code for about six months as part of TeamTNT's Boom engine effort, and I can definitely say it's both educational and fun. Many projects like mine will probably be converting to the GPL as well now too (we just passed on Carmack's educational license before.)
There is a link to the Source Ports page from the page the story links to (sorry, slashdotted right now or I'd link) that will get you versions of source for a wide variety of operating systems, including Linux, and with widely varying feature sets. I expect most, and nearly all the Linux versions, will go open source now.
This is a very good idea, and an excellent opportunity for those beginning programming to get at least some idea of how a professional and fun game is done. Keep up the good work, id Software!
My little brother and his 9-year-old friends have a lot of fun with that game. I'd love to be able to add some levels, etc. for them.
Sure, every GPL'd line of code helps the software industry, or whatever, but I think this is a cheap publicity stunt, even if a good one.
The thing is that Doom is old, and any "interesting" ideas in it have already been outdated by much faster computers and things like DirectX/OpenGL. All Carmack gets out of this is some praise on slashdot, and a couple more ppl who buy quake 3. That's all he's out for, and that's all he's getting. I am not criticizing him, actually, I'm just saying that it sounds like a very good idea, but practically speaking, I don't think this amounts to much, and is mostly just to generate hype.
-S
No one else seems to have mentioned this, but Dosdoom will have this feature soon.. There was even a screenshot of it on doomworld awhile back. It's apparently not complete, but Soon[tm].. I figure if you add that and then slanted floors followed up by real-time BSP management, you officially have something that works as well as Quake minus dynamic lighting, only faster by leaps and bounds. And frankly, I think dynamic lighting isn't as atmospheric. ;) The second of which is in Duke(Nope, no source there, although the principle isn't too difficult), but the third is in Hexen.(Which, if you have not played, go do so. Now, dammit.)
Strange that they didn't try to restore the data from the drive with, for example, Ontrack's service. The Ontrack guys will (try to) restore the data from a failed HD by opening it up and tweaking with some special HD heads. They're expensive, but maybe 15 months of work is worth it?
Just my 2 pennies.
Sigged!
Can't help wondering how long it will take before we can mount a WAD file using the loop device :-)
This is too cool...I have a lame 100mhz which I've been too cheap to upgrade/replace for, uhh, 4 years now (I'm waiting for Athlon to go to .18, yeah), and I love playing old games. XCom, Wolf3d, DoomI/II, and recently Duke3d (640x480, oh yeah). Can't wait for the cool stuff to come out with this being open-sourced.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I may be wrong but if I remeber right, DOOM does not allow you to have a two story building. By this I mean a building which you can walk on one floor and also on the floor above it. No tunnels which go under a walkway, etc. We need to get this added. If this can be added, and if doom has openGL support (don't know, been since my dos days since I have played games), we can have quite a bitchin engine.... Does anyone want to work on this? I would like to. Jesse Andrews andrews@physics.berea.edu PS. Don't flame me if my info about the doom engine is incorrect please. Unfortunately I have to spend most of my time doing oracle forms development instead of games now!
I'm greatly appreciative of this, John. I asked for a legally-able-to-redistribute license and you gave us more than we could have ever hoped. Way to go, id!
Well...Doom never went away & there are about a million wads to prove it.This will be really interesting if a bunch of Doom fanatics plunge in and create a far better GPL version than ever was.I am not sure how far an older engine can be pushed but it would be very cool to see an old classic reborn in new clothes!
Tired of being another body in the flock? Linux ! We are not sheep anymore.
The part that is not generally available are the maps from the game itself. The engine is available, but you have to download and put together your own information. With the proliferation of doom and quake sites this is not a problem.
John's original intent was to release the source code for each game engine a year after the game was released or when the next game engine was released. Doom and DoomII use the same engine, more or less and when quake was released John released the Doom code, actually a bit later since they had to have someone go in and clean out the third party software and clean up part of the code.
And now for some URL's
PlanetQuake probably the formost user site online for quake and doom related material. Any player of these games should not miss this site.
Quake 2 coding list.
id Softare id software's main website
id's source code archive
planetquake's finger information Latest .plan files from the gaming industries top game designers.
Where to find the Doom source
Cdrom and more files, look for various id titles
Lando
/* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
Here's a recent interview from FiringSquad with the great JC. The guys a total stand-up, quake rocks, fast cars, open source, and he lives in Dallas, the center of all things cool and computery (wireless what?!).
+&x
And, of course, I echo the kudos that John Carmack is getting for his decision to change the license of the Doom source code...he's one of the guys I think of first in the Pantheon of Programming Gods...
Eric
--
"Free your code...and the rest will follow."
Be who you are...and be it in style!
I think Carmack had the same idea a couple of years ago. Hence, Quake. If it really deserved a re-write before, I think it would still need one now. Not that it wouldn't be cool..
Commander Keen was great fun. I would love to play it in a little X window :)
Like getting a decent html widget or internet transparency.
Couldn't some people neaten it up so that it could be made into a cross-platform game engine (which IIRC, John Carmack wanted), and then add features from other ports to it?. The DOOM code fork has really gotten out of control... somebody needs to do something about it, and I don't think it's going to be any DOS programmers.
I think that DOOM Legacy is the most interesting port at the moment. It works on DOS/Windows, and has some Linux support, IIRC. I don't know when it'll be GPLed, though.
Also, couldn't ID software do the same thing with the IWADs? And what about Commander Keen?
They quote Carmack (or someone else at id) as saying "Now everyone has to open up their source." That's not necessarily true. If someone got the Doom source before this license change and made some proprietary changes to it, they are not required to comply with the GPL. They are completely entitled to use the software according to the original license if they choose.
Imagine if Microsoft gave you a copy of MS Office with a site license, and then said "Ha! We just changed the license! Now you have to pay us One million dollars! They can do that, but only on new purchases/downloads of their software. They can not make you comply with a new license for software that you are already using according to another license.
This is a very good thing. Unfortunately, if people were not contributing back changes and improvements before, simply changing the license to the GPL now wont necessarily fix that. It will stop it from happening in the future, though. I still applaud this decision in license change, good work id.
v2sw7CUPhw5ln6pr5Pck4ma7u7LFw0m6g/l7Di5e6t5Ab6TH.
I wonder if a possible way around this would be to take all the newly written, hacked functions, and call them from a closed source binary. Of course, this would be deliberately avoiding A Good Thing.
Also, what is the legal obligation of companies to stay with their current license? Is it possible for a piece of software to gain momentum because it's free software, and then do an about face with a new, decidedly more evil license?
If you check Doomnation, you'll realise that Doom hacking is still alive. I can see that community becoming very excited.
I have massive respect for Mr. Carmack and he is a very, very intelligent man. However the worthiness of the Doom source code is very, very limited. To bring up the evil one: DirectX 7 gives you any features in Doom with a clearly defined and distributed API, hardware abstraction, etc. So for someone to start with Doom is the crux of the problem with open source: It's primarily the realm of get-geek-fast people who want to go in, change some variables and make a new product. Bah.
All hail the mighty MS for open-sourcing DirectX 7 (I CAN get the APIs, and I can use the technology in my own software, so it's open source right? [PS. This relates to recent threads that equated the plug-in architecture of Quake and followups as "open source", and this went off without opposition...]).