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Extraterrestrial Real Estate for Sale
Tom Mulcahy pointed us over to The Lunar Embassy. Yes, that's right. You can purchase real estate on the Moon, Io, Venus, Mars, and, apparently the Universe. Ah, the beauty of capitalism.
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what if we bought a big space on the moon (the side that always faced Earth) and put the word L-I-N-U-X in REALLY REALLY BIG letter?
-- Note: These Comments are Generated by ME! Not You! ME!
No, It does not. It can't, & neither can any other nation. A few decades ago, the U.N. (the body that does nothing) ratified, & I believe all countries signed a law saying that no nation can own a part of the solar system. Or something like that ;)
Tom
We must all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately. -- Ben Franklin, July 4th, 1776
Humm - funny, the moon doesn't look like a bridge from here ...
The little guy just ain't getting it, is he?
porn at 0G? bad idea.. icky blobs of semen floating around the room.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
You can't see the landing site. Well you can (ie the general area of the moon) but you can't see eg the US flag or footprints.
1) They could have just orbited the Earth a few times before splashing down.
2) With a large enough telescope, maybe. BUT NO SUCH TELESCOPE EXISTS!!!!!
3) there != their
4) Conceded
We always want to think we own everything. But when first getting materialistic, we ain't worth no more, nor less, than the molecules we're all made up from. I think we should calm down a little.
Because it doesn't mean you own it. Tell you what, send ME $20, and I'll tell you that you own a bit of the moon.
"Good morning," the little prince said to him. "Your cigarette has gone out."
"Three and two make five. Five and seven make twelve. Twelve and three make fifteen. Good morning. Fifteen and seven make twenty-two. Twenty-two and six make twenty-eight. I haven't time to light it again. Twenty-six and five make thirty-one. Phew! Then that makes five-hundred-and-one million, six-hundred-twenty-two thousand, seven-hundred-thirty-one."
"Five hundred million what?" asked the little prince.
"Eh? Are you still there? Five-hundred-and-one million---I can't stop . . . I have so much to do! I am concerned with matters of consequence. I don't amuse myself with balderdash. Two and five make seven . . ."
"Five-hundred-and-one million what?" repeated the little prince, who never in his life had let go of a question once he had asked it.
The businessman raised his head.
"During the fifty-four years that I have inhabited this planet, I have been disturbed only three times. The first time was twenty-two years ago, when some giddy goose fell from goodness knows where. He made the most frightful noise that resounded all over the place, and I made four mistakes in my addition. The second time, eleven years ago, I was disturbed by an attack of rheumatism. I don't get enough exercise. I have no time for loafing. The third time---well, this is it! I was saying, then, five-hundred-and-one millions---"
"Millions of what?"
The businessman suddenly realized that there was no hope of being left peace until he answered this question.
"Millions of those little objects," he said, "which one sometimes sees in the sky."
"Flies?"
"Oh, no. Little glittering objects."
"Bees?"
"Oh, no. Little golden objects that set lazy men to idle dreaming. As for I am concerned with matters of consequence. There is no time for idle dreaming in my life."
"Ah! You mean the stars?"
"Yes, that's it. The stars."
"And what do you do with five-hundred millions of stars?"
"Five-hundred-and-one million, six-hundred-twenty-two thousand, seven-hundred-thirty-one. I am concerned with matters of consequence: I am accurate."
"And what do you do with these stars?"
"What do I do with them?"
"Yes."
"Nothing. I own them."
"You own the stars?"
"Yes."
"But I have already seen a king who---"
"Kings do not own, they reign over. It is a very different matter."
"And what good does it do you to own the stars?"
"It does me the good of making me rich."
"And what good does it do you to be rich?"
"It makes it possible for me to buy more stars, if any are discovered."
"This man," the little prince said to himself, "reasons a little like my poor tippler."
Nevertheless, he still had some more questions.
"How is it possible for one to own the stars?"
"To whom do they belong?" the businessman retorted, peevishly.
"I don't know. To nobody."
"Then they belong to me, because I was the first person to think of it."
"Is that all that is necessary?"
"Certainly. When you find a diamond that belongs to nobody, it is yours. When you discover an island that belongs to nobody, it is yours. When you get an idea before anyone else, you take out a patent on it: it is yours. So with me: I own the stars, bccause nobody else before me ever thought of owning them."
"Yes, that is true," said the little prince. "And what do you do with them?"
"I administer them," replied the businessman. "I count them and recount them. It is difficult. But I am a man who is naturally interested in matters of consequence.
The little prince was still not satisfied.
"If I owned a silk scarf," he said, "I could put it around my neck and take it away with me. If I owned a flower, I could pluck that flower and take it away with me. But you cannot pluck the stars from heaven."
"No. But I can put them in the bank."
"Whatever does that mean?"
"That means that I write the number of my stars on a little paper. And then I put this paper in a drawer and lock it with a key."
"And that is all?"
"That is enough," said the businessman.
"It is entertaining," thought the little prince. "It is rather poetic. But it is no great consequence."
On matters of consequence, the little prince had ideas which were very different from those of the grown-ups.
"I myself own a flower," he continued his conversation with the busine man, "which I water every day. I own three volcanoes, which I clean out eve week (for I also clean out the one that is extinct; one never knows). It is some use to my volcanoes, and it is of some use to my flower, that I own the But you are of no use to the stars . . ."
The businessman opened his mouth, but he found nothing to say in answer. And the little prince went away.
"The grown-ups are certainly altogether extraordinary," he said simply, talking to himself as he continued on his journey.
Touché- ----------------
-----------------------------------------
I also believe there are environmental treaties restricting how Antartica can be exploited, not sure right off the top of my head.
Right now there are a bunch of bases there, basically just research, and a handful of permanent ones, from a few countries. I'm not aware of any actual territorial claims.
Holy /. effect batman.
I'm puzzled. Man doesn't know a thing about the moon but he already makes bucks selling parts of it to brain damaged consumers. Never thought human stupidity could go this far. And when all those cute little "settlers" finally go there, may the old, powerful, and pissed up alien race which inhabits the moon flow out from the craters and get rid of them. Please ;)
Time zones will be mainly local with a translation
system to Earth times. It is not correct to say that UTC is used in space applications. UTC is mainly used in observations from Earth. However it is not the main standard for times in space probe
communications. There, it is mostly used sideral time and more complex stuff. One of them is to use the planet's "proper" timings.
Presently I only know about one planet carrying a complete timing up to a calendar system: Mars. Due to several constraints people at JPL created and used the Darien calendar. It looks much like Earth's but with clear differences. For example the day, "sol" is a bit longer than Earth's. As far as I know the first use of the Darien calendar was on Viking missions. After that and until Pathfinder's arrival it was nearly forgotten.
Well, my extraterestrial geography isn't as great as it might be. But I'm pretty sure that 29 and a quarter squares to the south-east of the extreme northwest corner of the Martian chart is still part of Mars.
Also, It doesn't seem to mention how much land you've got. Seems a deed would need this information.
Lemme get this straight - he registered his claim in the U.S. Now, the laws of the U.S. apply only in the U.S., which surely means that his "right" to sell lunar property only applies in the U.S.
Before his "ownership" of the moon, registered in the U.S., could be recognised internationally, surely the U.S. herself would have to claim the moon, which she is forbidden from doing so by the Outer Space Treaty.
Which means that if the U.S. ever did claim the moon, this guy would automatically get it!
The flag is up there at six manned sights, but unlike Cortez and his contempoaries, Armstrong and the other lunar mission commanders made NO clain to lunar territory. As I remember the plaque reads "We Come In Peace For All Mankind" and it's signed by President Nixon among others.
"Space Command" it maybe, but it's all about watching "them" here on Earth.
Does Spain own the Americas?
No, and neither does Italy. (Italy, more specific the countryside of Genua, is where Columbus came from).
And I'm sure the original Indian tribes put some flags somewhere, or the Normans, or...
Let's not get bent out of shape here. The treaty has NEVER been enforced, Since the end of the Cold War, there's nothing TOO enforce, and nothing to enforce it with. Besides it's an American tradition to break treaties when land expansion is concerned, so I wouldn't worry.
The only thing besides lack of technology holding the corporates from expanding into space is that there isn't any money to be made there... yet. And that's the only reason they'll go, forget the Star Trek crap.
Ahh, but the Space Treaty also specifies that citizens of a Nation fall under the jurisdiction of the Nation. This Treaty follows a slightly different legal regime than what is legal in the US. No *person* can have greater rights than the Nation they are subject to. This also applies to corporations as they are legally "people" in most conexts.
First of all, a rocket engine uses a hot gas as propulsion, therefore there was a "wind". Second of all, back to the original discussion, the five other Apollo missions to land on the moon left flags, and they were smart enough to learn from Apollo 11's mistakes and place the flags far enough away from the landing site whereas the ascent stage rocket would not disturb them.
The site seems to be Slashdoted @2:47 PDT
Uranus is already taken... Someone made a comment quite early stating that they didn't want any properties on uranis. Tehehe.
Plus I claim exclusive rights to Rigel, the martian moon Deimos, and any planetary system found in the Greater Magelanic Cloud.
I demand that all governments remove any of their space junk that they have put on my moon. And destroy any probes that may be travelling in my space. Otherwise, I will have to start charging royalty fees.
Not to mention that I have a patent on the cloud patterns on Jupiter. It pisses me off to see people publishing pictures of them without me knowing.
Be careful when you choose a planet to put your money in. Due to limitations of the TCP/IP standard (2 minute timeout) you won't be able to access the 'net from your favorite Mars part.
:)
It's a good argument to use when negotiating the price
Lets face it, if country X starts selling land on the moon country Y will get upset. Then those countries will fight each other to gain control of the moon. After one country wins the conlinies on the moon will rebel starting another war. In the end the colinies on the moon will win and country X and Y will lose.
Uh, guys, isn't this a novelty item?
:v)
Nobody owns the moon. Ownership is prohibited by a few treaties. Details of the legal aspects of owning the moon can be found off the Artemis Society homepage, specifically in the Frequently Raised Objections section.
As an aside, TransOrbital Inc. is going to be taking pictures of the moon using a telescope in lunar orbit, so people will be able to have a picture of "their" plot if they choose.
Vik
Prior inhabitants have never been much of an obstacle to 'manifest destiny'. Just ask the Indians.
After all, if you went there and declared autonomy, who would come stop you?
Lack of food, fuel, and oxygen.
Berlin-- http://www.berlin-consortium.org
DNA just wants to be free...
This is a really annoying form of profiteering. It's capitalizing on peoples interest in space and space exploration. There's technically nothing wrong with of course. I find it sad however that no good will come from this for space exploration. People are going to hand over money for a useless certificate.
I'd much rather see people donate money to the Planetary Society. Sure, you don't get a nifty laser printed certificate you can pretend entitles you to interplanetary real estate but maybe you'll fund some useful research.
ahh but that law says no NATION.
The U.S.S.R. was the first to land on the moon, your government just didn't let you know, poor americans. BTW the amstrong landing was a scam, they had shoot it some place in Nevada and Quebec, don't believe everything you see on TV.
Only problem with the Moon Treaty is that the United States and the other space-faring civilizations refused to sign it.
According to the The Artimis Project:
The Moon is a venue of "lex nullus"; that is, it is identical in legal status to the high seas, meaning that nobody can own it and everybody can go there.
Yep, I'm looking forward to the day like in the Heinlein novel, The Man Who Sold the Moon, Pepsi spends a ton of money for the right to spread lots of dark dust to put it's logo on the face of the Moon.
Heck, NJ's Governer Christine Whitman has already started her pioneering steps. Come watch some sports at the Continental Airlines Arena, catch your band at the PNC Bank Arts Center. I'm waiting anxiously to see who buys the right to rename the Great Falls next.
All the flag discussion is moot. As been said before, The Apollo flags weren't planted as flags of colonisation. (No claims to territory were made at the time of the landings). They were more in the spirit of the flags that climbers put on top of Mt. Everest.
Considering the times, (still relatively deep in the Cold War), the only real effect would have been to fuel Communist claims of capitalist expansionism.)
Whoever does actually get their first with a full-blown commerical industrial colony will mostly likely be the first to scrap said treaty, followed by whoever makes it next. As far as I know, the Russians didn't even bother to claim the ice caves they discovered at the lunar pole. Right now making legal decisions on this makes about as much sense as the U.S. positions on cryptography.
And the light WILL be on for you. :)
Its a con. Plain an simple. You name will never appear in a real celestial catalogue. Unless you happen to have a name like Apha Gamma 7 or something stupid. Some people sometimes get asteroids etc named after them, but they dont need to pay. They are usually well respected astronomers or sci fi writers etc etc. Brad Brad
I don't see anything on the website stating that this is a novelty only. Everything I read says that they have a legal right to sell moon property because the owner of the company filed a declaration of ownership of the moon with the US gov. in 1980.
Now, if it says for novelty only on the deed when you get it, couldn't you sue for false advertising ? The web site insists over and over again that it isn't a joke and it's legal.
If it does say that this is a novelty only on the website, I missed it and I would greatly appreciate you letting me know where on the site it says this.
It's projected with lasers.
I mean, by really old common-law type standards, first person to put a flag on the territory gets it, yes?
Haven't they read The Moon is a Cruel Mistress?
Probably not, since the book is titled The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
"Everybody understands Mickey Mouse.
Few understand Hermann Hesse.
Hardly anybody understands Einstein.
And nobody understands Emperor Norton."
-- Malaclypse the Younger, K.S.C.
Well if I bought a piece of mars and I found a little green man lying on it, I'd do what any good self repecting American would do. I'd pull out my colt .45 and make quick work of Mr. Martian. Then I'd punt his head over the nearest cluster of rocks. Reality is nothing but your own perception puttin order to things that have none. The real world is not WYSIWYG.
They've taken capitalism too far!
Good... Now I can finally fulfill my plans to bring prostitution to space. I bet that would get people interested in space travel. ;]
Actually, I would like to see who bites onto this one and starts buying up chunks of the moon.
wolf31o2 Developer, Gentoo Linux Games Team
>Lack of food, fuel, and oxygen.
What if someone put all 10,000 of those AIBO dogs there, with heat/cold sheilding, and some solar powered batteries? Would the AIBO dogs, or their owner own the moon?
Well, I'm fundamentally dependent on Earth for resupply, and I'm quite vulnerable to attack. But there's a much more fundamental problem then that: Because the Outer Space Use treaty and related international law prevent any nation from making a territorial claim in space, private organizations are effectively blocked from going anywhere. We worry about this often over on sci.space.policy and everywhere in the space-advocacy community.
The gist is this: suppose I'm a company that sees some value in putting up a moonbase, or maybe I'm the Artemis Project. I need to put, let's say, $10 billion into accomplishing that. Unfortunately, I'm trying to build something that has no protections whatsoever under national or international law. How do I convince investors this is a good bet? How do I value off-planet property as a corporate asset in an IPO, when I can't even determine legally what my property is? How do I insure against accident? Insurers like to have a really specific notion of what they're getting into. If the Department of Defense decides they need my moonbase more than I do, am I protected by eminent domain laws, or not?
Remember, I'm not just the 6 guys up on the moon protecting their property rights by lobbing rocks at the Capitol building; I'm also the enormous organization back on the ground that got them there. Lack of law makes my life very, very difficult back on Earth.
The folks down at SpaceDev (http://www.spacedev.com) are running a private research mission to an asteroid, and their chances of making it look pretty good right now. If they do, Jim Benson (their CEO) has said he expects to lay claim to it as property. Moved to Earth, its mineral value is probably in the tens of trillions of dollars. Should he get to keep it? We obviously need a system where entrepeneurs get to keep the fruits of their labor, or no one will ever bother with space- as most people aren't bothering now, in the absence of that system. But we don't want people making enormous claims based on minor accomplishments, either, and at some point any large development in space is going to be more than just property; it'll be a nation, or at least a city, too. How do we structure law to enable this, and can we get any new treaty past China's veto anyway? I'd love to hear some new geek ideas.
This doesn't seem all that professional. I haven't got the slightest idea what a northeast corner of a world map is. If they produce such deeds they should at least make it look like somewhat professional.
I want the "face" on Mars. Should be
worth millions to my great grand children!
I thought it was funny. Then again I got a kick out of Married with Children and ribald shows like that on the tele.
-m
Another old favorite is the Martian Consulate page. When they opened, they had a pyramid scheme going. Once you bought land, you could refer friends (read "spam the UseNet with your referral #") and get a percentage of what they pay for their Martian plots, as well as any people they referred, etc. It doesn't look like they're promoting that program anymore, but the order form still asks for your referral number.
What's the NSA going to say about importing new Martian encryption technology? Or, heaven forbid, providing the new superadvancedaliens with 128-bit DES :)
Can your IM do this?
Yeah, man! I wanna buy the big red spot on Jupiter!
"When the Earth hits your eyes, like a big pizza pie, that's amore'" heh... cool.
Before the first human moon landings a treaty was ratified that stated that no nation would own the Moon, and that it would be freely available for scientific exploration to anyone that wanted it.
I would imagine that the same applies to all of the other planets,since the cost of getting there far outweighs the (present) commercial rewards.
As for the asteroids, comets and, dare I say it, other _stars_, a similar rule would apply. After all, what hard-headed, capit(a/o)l driven buisness person in this day and age would throw away those sums of money?
No, anyone who goes "out there" will do so in the name of science and exploration first.
It will be at leat 50 years until we see the Moon being exploited for commercial gain.
Low Earth Orbit.. that's another story.. Give it 5 years until the well-heeled will be going there.
I'm out of my tree just now but please feel free to leave a banana.
What if anyone from Outer Space comes up and says this words?
Silly yeah?
But the unfortunate thing is that this already happened. 500 years ago another guy claimed for the crown of Spain a several islands in what was supposed to be the End of the World. And he created a precedent, that, until the beginning of this century, was an epidemia turned one of the greatest tragedies of Mankind. Even the democratic, pluralist and liberal United States of America did not avoid this train. Even now we have a few islands that came into possession of the US through such procedure.
No one asked the people of these lands what did they think of the fact that they belonged to anyone else. No one cared if these lands were completely desertic or had civilizations much older than their new "owners". On the contrary. Every european, asian or american power used all its means to "prove" such ownerships through Ironclad policies. And every resitence or rebellion had to face a terrible fate.
No matter these agreements or treaties, the first space powers (the real ones, those who will start up Space colonisation, if one gets the guts to do it) will just leave them on the shelf. And they will not take a damn about these Outer Space Real Estate dealers. All this is just snake oil. It is playing with everyone who wishes to become Colombus or Lord Sandwich (yeah, it seems there was such a guy). Btw, these new Pizarros and Corteses are doing a silly and unethical play.
The Moon is probably much worser then Mojave or Skeleton beach since its beginning. Mars is probably in a RIP status for quite a long time. Yeah Europe could have some bacteria inside. But I also heard that these unreal estaters sell stars, pieces of galaxy or even whole galaxies.
A warning. The next terminal station can be 10, 100 or 100000000 light years from us. BUT IT IS THERE. No matter we know or don't know about it. And we don't know how alien humour reacts to human dumbiness. Sincerly Clinton once said some harsh words about Mars. Luck no one's there now. But even for a human his words could be measured as highly offensive. To understand the level of what he said there is only the need to change the word "Mars" with any US foe or less friendly state. Had he messed a word (like Reagan once did) and that would be very serious diplomatic trouble.
You may think this sounds silly. Well NO ONE seems to be out there... For now, and here... But if IT IS out there? Or even here and now? What do you think he thinks about us and these stupidities?
I thought there was an international agreement to prevent territory wars that said that no country or person could lay claim to land outside of earth? This would seem to be in violation of that...
"As long as you don't ask me to smell Uranus."
"We don't call it that anymore, astronomers changed the name in the 2200's to avoid that little joke."
"Oh really? What's it called now?"
"Urectum."
I can say to you that I will sell you a spot on Mars, but if (someday) you could go to that little spot that I said you own and you find little green men living there, it is no longer thiers?
More or less. At least, that's the way it worked when we screwed over the American Indians.
I would like to sell people little glass vacuum spheres. Then you can say you own nothing, and it is something!
In all seriousness, that's not a bad idea for a novelty gift.
Berlin-- http://www.berlin-consortium.org
DNA just wants to be free...
Does that mean that people will then suffer Venus envy?
This space for sale
I'm gonna host the first Slashdot mirror on the moon! Of course, it will be a little slow, but think of the media coverage!
> If I recall correctly, the moon is a neutral
:/
> zone.
WHAT? We must have been desprate to risk war with the ROMULANS!!
;)
Seriously though, the idea of any one country "claiming" anything outside of the planet is pretty sickening. Unforunately, while the major countries seem to have restraint, I can certainly see some of the smaller war-like nations trying to claim it for themselves.
-- www.bteg.com | bleh.n3.net | hac47.dhs.org
Do you believe in the Prime Directive?
Answer
We do. Really. It's more than just a silly rule, but more a philosophy to life. We feel, we all must learn to respect all life, no matter what it looks like or where it came from. Our team has several Star Trek fans, mainly TNG tho, so please don't ask them about what Kirk did in episode 27. Their favorite Trek episodes are The Inner Light (TNG), although the Borg ones as well as All Good Things, rank right up there amongst the top ever, surely. Ah. They don't make them like they used to. Please note, that in honour of Star Trek VIII:"First Contact", the next two Lunar Cities will be named "Tycho-City" and "New-Berlin" as mentioned in the film. Our message is: Live now, because now, will never come again.
What happened to "Live long and prosper"? Who's the star trek fan?
Joseph Elwell.
There's a much easier, more legal way to do get people of 'their' land: when somebody starts to build infrastructure on the moon they probably may charge owners of 'developped' properties with development costs. Now that's a bill i don't want to pay ...
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Just a side comment, that the flag appears to be blowing in the wind in the various moon photos. Of course, with no atmosphere, this means that the astronauts just unfurled the flag and with only 1/6 gravity, it sort of 'sticks' temporarily.
Actually, the moon flags are kept unfurled by wires hemmed into their edges.
Any flag durable enough to survive any length of time on the moon is going to be too heavy to float as you describe. Anyway, the kind of floating you're talking about relies on air resistance, which is in rather short supply up there.
A remark on your side comment: No, the flag does not "stick" in 1/6th Earth gravity, at least not for an appreciable moment. The flags on the moon simply had a steel (or more likely aluminium) rod reinforcing the upper edge!
Stephan
It would be much easier to take Harriman to court for the price of those stamps which never actually flew. Might win that way.
Not to be a pedantic bastard, but it's Alludium q-36 explosive space modulator.
Okay, I'm a pedantic bastard.
No, he'd need at least three medium-sized planets, which will be just barely enough room to house the Complaints Department.
"Go Stick Your Head in a Pig,"
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
Huh? What country would that be, exactly? If a company in a non-signatory nation built a base on the moon and claimed property rights by homesteading to the area where the base was, what exactly would the State Parties to the Treaty do?
What gave the signatories of the treaty the right to decide what can or can't be done on the moon by those not subject to their sovreignty?
Of course, the "deeds" being sold by the Lunar Embassy are completely bunk, as they themselves say, but that is not because ownership of lunar property is inherently unlawful.
I liked the joke postings better. Can I turn it in for a pound of green cheese?
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
On my Gnome desktop clock it says "941068549" right now. If they make a day 10^5 seconds that would give us a nice extra 3.7777 hours to get our work done (ok, our /. reading) done too...
Put little dots at the 1000 day and 100 second marks and you get
Stardate 9.410.688.31
Energy: time to change the picture.
Shouldn't that be lunarembassy.INT???? or at least a new country code..
So who owns that land. What is they someday discover huge oil reserves or anything valuable. I wouldnt mind picking up some cheap property there. Seriously, whats the deal with it. Does anyone own it, control it or what. I know there are scientist from all over the world there but other than that...
MS Moon could be dangerous! In about 5 years it would bloat to such considerable size that it would consume Terra!
Perhaps I'm just taking this just a little bit too seriously :)
I actually own a piece of the moon.
Quoting from my "Martian Deed":
Area I-32, Quadrant Echo 1, Lot Number 844
This property is located 029 squares south and 004 squares east of the extreme northwest corner of the recognized Martian chart.
Seriously, I have a piece of the moon from this company. It was given to me by a friend of mine a year or two back. He thought it was hilarious, and I found it quite amusing myself.
It does say: "this is a novelty gift".
I wish I could put up a scan, but I don't have a scanner nearby...
According to international law, the UN, etc. etc... the Moon is not owned by any one entity, and therefore, having someone "selling" territory on it is impossible.
Its all kinda pointless until we actually manage to actually establish a viable colony, anyway...
Will ICANN handle domain name registration for the .moon .venus .mars etc. domains? Or will they be assigned standard ISO 3166 codes?
.io (which might be a good TLD for banks and other lending institutions) is already assigned to the British Indian Ocean Territories, so they will have to have a less intuitive domain, unless moons are only given second level domain names under the planet around which they revolve. This would mean that our moon would have to be given the .moon.earth domain or the .luna.earth domain.
I know that
By the way, did you know there are already 247 ISO 3166 codes assigned? That means that we are almost 40% of the way to assigning every possible 2-letter abbreviation available.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
They should release moon as GPL!
Or maybe you could write "Carrie is cute" instead of cracking MS to write it on their homepage. I'm sure your girlfriend would love that!!!! (more than the chocolate and flowers)
I do not see on what ground you say that it is 'likely' for space travel to be privatized. Mining asteroids ? bwahahaha do you know that a substantial portion of the earth's oil reserves are not exploited because too difficult to access and not too costly to exploit ?
well, old glory (the american flag) is probably still stuck into the lunar cheeseball, nevertheless. And sorry i lost the (off topic) link, but there was a great nytimes article re: the uncle spam's militarization of outer space.. You can bet the pentagon outspends anyone else to dominate space and assure security of communication/surveillance satellites, regardless of any warm and fuzzy OST.. in fact, there's an arm of the mighty us military called "Space Command".
heheh. That episode was just replayed on Com Central on Sunday... Question though.... Why not just modify the man on the moon so its the face of Larry Wall? Come one that would Kick Butt!
--------========+++Dont Feed The Lab Techs+++========--------
I'd want one of the really really really small comets. Imagine building a house that only has a front. The entire hallway loops around the planet.....of course, it would have to be really dense to provide adaquate gravity.
While we're selling unenforceable title deeds to real estate on solar system bodies, nonexistent bridges on Io and bogus naming rights to stars in the night sky, I have an offer of my own....
FOR SALE BY TENDER - ASTEROID MINING RIGHTS
I have for sale exclusive mining claims to seven choice asteroids. These asteroids, with sizes ranging from three to eight kilometres in diameter, are composed almost entirely of metals (chiefly iron and nickel) and would be an extremely profitable investment for the discerning terrestrial mining company that is looking to expand its operations to a new and exciting field of operations. Of particular interest is that each asteroid has an abundance of trace metals that are scarce on Earth, such as iridium and osmium. This is your opportunity to corner the market in these and similar rare metals.
Stake your claim now! Tenders close 31/3/2000.
And if you believe that, then remember this: There's a sucker born every minute. You're it.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
about how they're selling stakes in "uranus"
sorry if this was already said, i wasn't paying any attention
======
"Cyberspace scared me so bad I downloaded in my pants." --- Buddy Jellison
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
Or maybe you could write "Carrie is cute" instead of cracking MS to write it on their homepage. I'm sure your girlfriend would love that!!!! (more than the chocolate and flowers)
BTW - Any Boise, ID BeOS users out there?
How do you take ownership of a patch of the Moon, then? Well, back in the old days (i.e., the Renaissance), you went there with a Government-sponsored team and claimed the land in the name of a nation. You then stacked it up with soldiers to make sure no one contradicts your claim.
So, if you buy a land on the Moon, how are you going to go there and claim it, much less defend it against invasion?
The simple fact of the matter is, you can't. And Governments will let you dream on about your little patch of Moon property until they decide otherwise.
In the meantime, people are giving money away, mostly because they think it's fun. But if you think that's much fun, there's a nice bridge for sale on Io. Just give me a call.
"Knowledge = Power = Energy = Mass"
Remember the film that Lisa was watching about The Moon?
"The moon belongs to America, and anxiously awaits the arrival of our astro-men. Will you be among them?"
P
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
And here I thought Heinlein had it right when he called them "Loonies" (luna - the Moon).
--Corey
Not only will they not deserve liberty or safety, Mr. Franklin, they will be DENIED both!
--
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Screw the moon, I want a piece of the Sun! I got plans for that baby: a super deluxe sized Motel-6! It'll be hot!
-- www.bteg.com | bleh.n3.net | hac47.dhs.org
You think you can sell the intergalatic realestate? You fools! Were you not at the Symposium at MK 451? It was there that these things were settled. For your information, it is I who own this sector, as well as Andromeda, the Pleides Cluster, and the Galatic Core. Keep up this farce, and I will be forced to authorize a "cleaning" job on this puny world you inhabit. That will be all.
"TREATY ON PRINCIPLES GOVERNING THE ACTIVITIES OF STATES IN THE EXPLORATION AND USE OF OUTER SPACE, INCLUDING THE MOON AND OTHER CELESTIAL BODIES" from http://www.acda.gov/treaties/outspace.htm .
The United States signed this treaty on the 27th of January, 1967 and deposited an instrument of ratification on the 10th of October, 1967 - making this treaty US law. As far as I can tell, all the countries with a reasonable chance of having a space programme have signed and ratified it, including China, which agreed to the treaty in 1983.
What does this treaty have to say about property on the moon?
Article I, para 2
Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free for exploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access to all areas of celestial bodies.
This means you can't keep anyone off of your lunar claim. You can't keep them from building or prospecting or from exercising any other right you have to some strip of land either. Under those conditions, what good does a deed do you?
Article II
Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.
This means that no nation can claim exclusive jurisdiction over the moon or any part of it, and that makes it basically impossible to obtain a deed that other countries would consider binding.
Article VI
States Parties to the Treaty shall bear international responsibility for national activities in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, whether such activities are carried on by governmental agencies or by non-governmental entities, and for assuring that national activities are carried out in conformity with the provisions set forth in the present Treaty. The activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty. When activities are carried on in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, by an international organization, responsibility for compliance with this Treaty shall be borne both by the international organization and by the States Parties to the Treaty participating in such organization.
This means you can't claim the treaty doesn't apply to you because you aren't affiliated with a national government. Anything you do in space falls under the jurisdiciton of some country.
In short, a deed to the moon, an asteroid, or anything else in space is completely worthless so long as this treaty is in force.
I almost made a killing on eBay selling my moon property, and now you had to inform everyone. Thanks a bunch.
I would love to give a deed to all my friends for Christmas if only I could get a plot for $10. It would be a great gift!
Yes, Marvin and his Illudium Q-36 Space Modulator should be our biggest fear. Forget our claim on the Moon, he'll annihilate us for blocking his view of Venus!
--
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
I hearby claim the 420 square acre parcel of land located in the center of Crater Zeno on the moon as the sole property of me.
I do not recognize the claim of ownership of the aforementioned moon byThe Lunar Embasy as valid. Furthermore I think that any attempt to sell cheese without the approval of the FDA is a clear violation of the CPA, the PCI, the PDQ, the KMFDM, and the PIOCC (Preconceved Idiots Organization of Cheese Consumers) charters.
I hereby declare war on any party that attemts to invade my borders and steal my stockpiles of Surge, Bawls, Up Your Gas, Cheetos, and HoHo's. Any attempt to infiltrate my fortress will be met by severe resistance by my minions of nacho hucking penguins. Resistance is futile. In case you are wondering I am going to return to earth on the 2nd of January with my minions of Penguins and my hoards of surge and take over the powerless computerless earth with promises of an OS that doesnt crash. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
Think of the advertising possibilities! Chairface chippendale would be proud!
STFU about slashdot bias.
like buying a name for a star of whatever, you can give someone money for it, but it's not approved at all, bummer! see the FAQ at International Astronomical Union
--
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
nah, but am i the only one that thought this was funny? probably because of my lack of taste.
"The White man" did not take land from the aboriginal(sp?) americans. Some white people in some govermants did.
:)
I am white I nor anyone in my family tree, as far as I can tell, took anything from any Indian, ever.
This may seem a little touchy but I am getting real tired of having guilt piled on me for something that happened when NO ONE alive today was alive then.
One more commercial about how we owe it to the indians to let them bring gambling to the state and I'm going to go ballistic.
Perhaps I'm just taking this just a little bit too seriously
A lot of people have metioned various "Space treaties" Lets see how long those treaties are honored when A cheap, quick, and dependable method of space travel is invented.
Don't forget it's an Illudium Q-36 EXPLODING Space Modulator. :)
--
--
talon - Oh no, more Slashdotters!
I went to buy me a little peice of the heavens and the damn serve has crashed.... Can't all the people who read slashdot go one at a time over a few months so more than 2% of us can see the site!
If you don't know exactly what time it is and where you are, you will never get there.
Well, international treaties state that no country can own territory in space (this is a gross summary of the law, and unfortunately I can't find the text of it...but if you happen to have a copy of Larry Niven's "N-Space" it a much better summary is in there somewhere).
...however, I *DO* have a nice villa reserved on the bloodriver. You don't want to know what it cost me...
By extension of that law, it follows that no organizations or citizens can own territory in space either. Too easy to cheat that way; a person or organization could acquire property, then let their country use the property anyway. Or some such thing like that. It'd be too easy to abuse, and would spoil the point of the treaty (mainly it was to stop anyone from launching nukes from there, but there are other reasons just as important).
Even if it WAS legal to own property in space, wouldn't you have to follow common rules anyway? I doubt any of the sellers (or buyers) involved here have physically gone there and planted their flag to make a claim, eh? =)
evilWurst
Whew!! For a minute there I thought we were facing the imminent destruction of planet earth by extremely angry SEBs (Superpowerful Extraterristrial Beings)
"They think they bought my what???? Why those irritating little humans. I'll just have to teach them a lesson in humility..."
Next thing ya'know, KABOOM!!
...joke mode OFF...
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Since www.lunarembassy.com has apparently been /.'d I'll go ahead and post without reading the article.
In the 1970's there was a guy who made his living by going around the college circuit selling deeds for 1 acre parcels on the moon for $1. He was dressed in boots, cape, etc all spray-painted silver. I bought 1 acre. I hope I won't have to kick off any claim jumpers from this upstart Lunar Embassy.
Not a very good investment. The ROI is low, and the likelihood of being able to resell in your lifetime is pretty bad, too. About as responsible as investing in profitless .com companies.- --------------------
-------------------------------------
The word is out, there's a new style growing... but it doesn't know if it's coming or going. They say the next big thing is here, that the revolution's near. But to me it seems quite clear -- That it's all just a bit of history repeating.
Pardon the segue, but...
.02
We're talking about a very long-term venture here. Space, once we get rolling, will be our future. So while a "no private ownership" creed might be conforting and viable now, it will not hold up for long.
And what a wonderful way to discourage private industry from going! "You can own chunks of a finite resource down here but don't even think of laying claim to a speck of infinity." What breed of political bullshit is this??
Glad nobody in the fifteenth century tried this nonsense...
My
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
Secondarily, it's kinda hard to blow a flag down without an atmosphere to sustain a wind, dontcha think? ;-)
There is a tendancy to use UTC in space applications; if people start dispersing to the moon, this provides some time delay issues in communications that would result in sync issues; heading further afield to Mars would be similarly disruptive to synchronization of activities.
It's possible that one might get meaningful information out of a GPS unit from the moon, albeit with extremely screwy coordinates as they'd be relative to the earth. (Mind you, it is probable that consumer units would shut down as you'd be moving more than 999mph relative to earth's surface...)
Determining time/location will provide opportunities for new fields in vCards and for a bunch of new RFCs. I thought there was one on this, but in querying the archives, I seem to be mistaken...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
You know, this particular situation is all pretty hilarious, but it reminds me of a more serious issue. Something I heard awhile ago about corporations someday owning property in space. It is a very likely scenario that space travel will be privatized in the future. In fact, I would say its the most likely. There is alot of potential profit in mining asteroids, the moon, other planets or whatnot. What will stop corporations from claiming these objects for themselves. Its not a problem now, but I hope that in the future, the governments of the world work together to ensure that the common man doesn't lose out. I mean, I'm very thankful that there are national parks and other public lands which I and other people who can't afford land can use. I would like to see space developed for the good of everyone, not just to further line the pockets of the already very rich. I'm not saying that there isn't a place for privately held property, I'm all for it, but I believe in taking most everything in moderation. Everything shouldn't just be up for grabs.
Check out AbiWord.
A guide to Klingon programming
If you insist on taxation, then a net asset tax is most appropriate.
A NAT prevents "squatting" on any frontier, be it "cybersquatting" or specious claims of title to real estate in outter space.
Seastead this.
...using an early model super-computer. Yup, the whole moonshot is CGI. Naturally computers, even super-computers, weren't real good in those days, so to make up for the lack of detail, they made all the footage look grainy. You've seen films from the late 1960's, they don't look grainy! Don't you think if they had really gone to the moon they wouldn't have brought a better camera?
And they got a young George Lucas to direct it. He was recruted by the CIA during his film school years. That's how he got all the cool ideas for shooting Star Wars.
This was all proven by the Weekly World News years ago. Get with the programme, dude!
(For the humour impared, yes, I'm kidding.)
Hmm, I better jump on it and get a domain of my own country on another planet. Moon domains... What would they be called? Slashdot.moo sounds interesting. Heck, if all those people can grab .to and .cc domains, why cant i have .mrs for mars domains? Just have to put a server out there first perhaps.
I don't believe it violates any moon laws...Because there aren't any! Yes, it violates US and International laws, but do these bodies have jurisdiction in space when you are not, by definition, in their territory?
El Karma: excelente(principalmente la suma de moderación hecha a los comentarios de los usuarios)
So according to the American government Mr. Dennis M. Hope has the right to sell property. Something tells me when it gets time to start doing things with the moon and other planets we will be doing it on an international front and these things will hold no weight what so ever.
Imagine the protential of Pron in low G (1/6th Remember?) Of course 0 G will be better but for those who can't afford the good stuff (0 G Porn) 1/6 G will do.
20 minutes and its already slashdotted.
Personally, I want to see this company get rich just so I can laugh at how many dumb people there are who would actually WANT some real estate on Venus or, say, a gas planet like Neptune.
Oh come on guys! If you are true geeks then you must always fall in love with the evil genius in the James Band movies. He/she always have the best gear. :> Anyways, "flag up there" or "Luna 7" first you take your pick. I don't think either Russia or the USA left custom officers up there. In the end there is nothing for us in it. Still if these documents held valid legal proof of ownership then here is what geeks of the world could do: We buy the whole lot! Next time there is a mission to Titan, Mars anything we just sue the concerned governement for walking onto private territory. And that holds in court on a daily basis. (unless Irak gets there, then we are kinda... err.. fucked? Nah, we could always strike a deal.) So here: NASA, ESA and the lot. Hear my call. If you wanna land your invasive devices there, you have to pay the landing fee! Nice something like Nasser's taking over the Suez Canal, except I don't think the parras are gonna go all the way up there to take it back.
The moon is not anyones to sell. When it is colonised and obtains a government, no doubt title deeds will be drawn up and the land allocated in some way : until then, no-one owns it.
5 posts and they're slashdotted already. Is this really the company you want to buy 100 acres of the moon from? lol I haven't read anything from them yet so don't moderate me down or anything, this IS a relevant post
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
That's it! I am gonna setup my OWN ISP on the Moon. BWS@Work, offering everything from Dialup to OC-3, however, no guarantees on PING times to Earth :)
-- Note: These Comments are Generated by ME! Not You! ME!
Five other flags still planted, eh? How many, if any are visible, and how powerful of a telescope would you need to see them?
I suppose that I could just buy a piece of land in a bigass crater (yes, I know-- not one of the *big* craters, they're miles and miles across-- just one of the small ones; an acre or two of land will do me). No need for fences-- people would have to climb up those huge walls and such...
Seriously, though, does anybody truly think that we'll be living on the moon within the next 60-70 years? Or is it like that whole "The US is switching over to the metric system!" thing all over again-- promises, promises, but it never happens?
What would be some advantages to living on the moon, anyway? I don't think the ability to slam dunk on a standard basketball hoop counts, either-- I'd wind up getting airsick pretty quickly...
Haven't we learned about dealing in land that isn't ours, lands that we can't even get to?
Time to pay up NASA!!
It almost looks as if my gf was driving the Pathfinder last kuz they couldn't parallel park worth a damn.
--Clay
*sarcasm off* These are novelty items, their Canon BJC-4400 is just as good as mine, maybe I'll start printing out deeds and charging $100.
They own the moon about as much as Hale and Bop own a comet and A.C. Clarke owns part of Mars. Heck thats a compliment as they don't even have anything named after them.
Not really news as they've been in business for years, or at least someone selling moon deeds has. And not really newsworthy as its not legal. They are good for a laugh though, especially the group that claims to own the moon because thier ancestors were believed, by them, to be Lunies.
It would be impossible for the moon to crash into the earth more than once.
Obviously this is a novelty thing--not exactly news (I saw this on the Daily Show several months ago.)
:P
The unwritten but well known law is that whoever has the most powerful weapons/army owns the moon (assuming it's worth something to them.) Pay closer attention to history.
numb
?syntax error
You know, just in case they find something in it.
-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-
My mom's going to kick you in the face!
More or less. At least, that's the way it worked when we screwed over the American Indians.
Yep, that is exactly what I was thinking when I wrote that. Kinda sad that I am sure it would happen again if history were to repeat itself.
I say that we start PETL. (Preservation of ExtraTerrestrial's Land)
I better get a patent on the sphere idea...NOBODY LOOK AT MY POST! Nothing to see there... {Dman rushes off to the patent office...}
As far as I'm concerned, I think the moon belongs to me, just as much as anyone. Just like there are national parks and reserves...
The difference being that,unlike those stoopid bird and squirrel reserves, you can own the moon for under a penny an acre (US currency, your mileage may vary.)
Finally, my salvation arrives! I may not be able to get any earth women, but I'm sure excited of the prospect of sex with hot moon chix0rs! Hey while youre at it, maybe you can get your brothel to import some of those 3-breasted Martian women, like that chick from Total Recall! Even better, this whole moon sex idea could lead to some wil pr0n movies :)
I meant to say when travel to and colonization becomes trivial, not non-trivial. Sigh.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
You can get your plot on the Moon for like $16.
I guess all your friends are in for a swanky piece o' property for Christmas.
If you had checked your info., you would know that the term novelty that is on the deeds, is there only to protect the Lunar Embassy from frivoulous lawsuits. As you must be aware, so many Americans are fond of lawsuits.
You can only sell things that you have a right to sell (by possession or by other means, such as a power of attorney from the true owner). Somehow I don't think that this bunch has the right to really 'sell' moon real estate.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Did you hear about the new restaurant on the moon? The food's great but there's no atmosphere. Just couldn't resist. -------------------------
24-hour banking!?! I don't have time for that.
-- Steven Wright
WTF, why do this now? People have been selling the Universe (and even the occasional Multiverse) on eBay for months...
-Lx?
This brings to mind the recent article about Arthur C. Clarke, where he mentions his asteroid. Can I buy a plot of land there? I'd love to say I own part of Arthur C. Clarke. :)
Seriously, though, what is the point of buying this real estate? Can anyone really expect these claims to hold up if and when we do get to space? And what if we just can't live there? Oh, well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Btw, does anybody really want to live on Uranus? (Sorry, couldn't help myself?)
With the kind of cash Bill Gates has, he could buy a couple of planets... Just imagine the destruction though, MS Moon would probably crash into the earth a couple times a day....
-- My neighbors dog has a four inch clit.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
for a pun about buying real-estate on "Uranus."
Any takers?
I certainly hope there's some such international agreement. I don't like the idea of someone buying peieces of space and defacing it. As far as I'm concerned, I think the moon belongs to me, just as much as anyone. Just like there are national parks and reserves, I think the moon (and the rest of the universe) should be an international park/reserve.
I wonder if anyone will actually pay for this, thinking they have some right to buy it and moreover that the person they are buying it from has the right to sell it. Yuck! Capitalism at its worst.
---
I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
When colonization starts happening on the moon or mars or wherever, there will be a bunch of people that bought property from somebody who want their piece of it. They're gonna be pretty bummed... :-)
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
According to traditional laws of territory,
once a person sets his/her foot on an unclaimed
territory and sets a simbol of ownership, a flag
for example, then that location is owned to that
person. The US did it first, however they have
given up their "ownership rights" to the
"people of earth". Its like someone reaches a
new land, and then claim it for an entire planet
population and not for a certain country.
Due to that, anyone who want to 'own' a piece
of land from the moon will have to ask permission
from a united body that will represent the
planet - something that we do not have yet,
anyway. Besides - that guy from Lunar Embassy
is using US territory laws to claim these
territories. If I am not mistaken, the area
under control of the US ends somewhere above
the atmosphere, when you dont see blue anymore.
The moon is WAY out of their control. So its
like buying pieces of land in Germany by using
a goverment office in Japan. No connection what
so ever.
I say, that guy should get sued.
What are you out of your mind!!! Don't you read /.!? Do you want us looking like a bunch of opportunists? Shame on you. ... tools... (siglim 120 chars)" Like cars... to the office no more no less.
"Computers should be
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Ben Bova has a couple of great books dealing with just that. Try Privateers or the sequel Empire Builders ; both well illustrate the idea that a well-meaning treaty "is just a scrap of paper" when there is no effective deterrant to aggression. And they provide a shocking demonstration of what will happen to America if our leadership continues to handle space exploration as they are today.
Plus both are shameless plugs for free enterprise, in space and elsewhere. Read them!
Scudder
... and there is no doubt, that one day he will be
where the eye of his telescope has already been
I suspect none are visible. First of all, we place flagpoles in the ground sticking straight out of the surface. Imagine sticking a toothpick in an orange. If you look right down on it, it's a small point. Now look from Earth to the Moon and notice that you're looking for something about 1-2 inches across on an object about 1/4 the size of Earth. Good luck.
(Granted that part would be different if we visited a polar region... but we didn't.)
Just a side comment, that the flag appears to be blowing in the wind in the various moon photos. Of course, with no atmosphere, this means that the astronauts just unfurled the flag and with only 1/6 gravity, it sort of 'sticks' temporarily. You could look for that, but in 30 years, the flag is now going to be stuck to the pole more or less.
The easy answer is, if you're trying to find it with a telescope, look for the one that fell down. At least it's a few square feet big.
But you're not going to find it... the best commercial spy satellites can see 1 square meter objects from Earth orbit. A far cry from where you'd need to be to see a flagpole 2 inches across.
-Derek
Oh My GOD! We have Slashdotted the Lunar Embassy! I hope this doesn't cause an Interplanetary Incident! CmdrTaco should get get on the hotline immediately to assure the Lunar President that we have no hostile intentions!
Will anyone buy this? Well, so far there are over 85,000 paid customers worldwide. This is just for the Lunar property. I guess the question is, who won't buy it?
I already posted the result somewhere else so apologies if you're reading it again.
;)
Assuming the flags were roughly a half metre across and are now lying flat n the surface.
Then with the moon at around 400,000 km distance the approximate angular size is 1.25x10^-9 radians.
The angular resolution of a tescope is equal to 1.22 x W / D. W is the wavelength of the light, and D is the diameter. Assuming visible light to have a wavelength of 550nm (yellow light) then in order to see the angle above D = 1.22 x 550 x 10^-9 / 1.25x10^-9
or
D = 54 metres (approximately)
That's a pretty big telescope. The largest optical telscopes currently in use are the Keck telsocpes which are each 10 m in diameter.
Once you've buit your 54 metre telescope let me know and I'll advise you on how to elimnate atmospheric turbulence and other effects that make it even harder...
-- "Sponges grow in the ocean. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn't happen."
... aka Space Conquest for Dummies...
Of course, even if this WAS legitimate, it wouldn't matter without a government (or corporation with military forces) to back it up. Without defense, anybody could move in and set up shop. So you'ld be stuck dealing with tresspassers on you're own, and all you could do is watch through your telescope and bitch at your friends that somebody is on your property... which, if they have the resources to get up there and you don't, they damn well deserve to take it from you.
- Maine Coon
Meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow!
Hunt your preferred prey at Aliens vs Predator MUD. Join the war at avpmud.com port 4000
>I certainly hope there's some such international >agreement. I don't like the idea of someone >buying peieces of space and defacing it. As far >as I'm concerned, I think the moon belongs to >me, just as much as anyone. Just like there ara
>national parks and reserves, I think the moon
>(and the rest of the universe) should be an >international park/reserve.
You know, I ended up doing a double take when I read this. Initially this sounds like a wonderful thing to me, that all of this land should be commonly owned, free space to all.
The reality of this though is that it's not going to work well. Eventually humans are going to start living off this planet (at least I think we can all agree on that). Once we do, do we really want every place you live beside earth to be some government owned and operated area? No, we're going to want to say this is my land and my house just as we do here. While I agree that some areas need to be defined as national park/reserve style areas, I think there also need to be areas that can be claimed for individual ownership.
I have not had a chance to go to the link since it is already slashdotted, but for some reason I cannot see this working. Who is selling the estate? It is not like they own it in the first place, right? I can say to you that I will sell you a spot on Mars, but if (someday) you could go to that little spot that I said you own and you find little green men living there, it is no longer thiers? Just because I said so? Here, I have bottled air for sale, and some dehydrated water. (Just add water!!!)
Make money fast! Find rich gullable people and sell them nothing!
I would like to sell people little glass vacuum spheres. Then you can say you own nothing, and it is something!
now youve killed the server in the moon.
Ho hum. It's been at *least* 15 years since I saw people (don't know if it's the same company) claiming to sell blocks of land on Mars ("for novelty purposes only"). They used to advertise in GAMES magazine and OMNI, and you could also buy an entry in their name-a-star database.
...but I have copyright on selling lunar property - I wrote a short story in fourth grade and mailed it to myself.
Not sure how I'm going to enforce it =)
Obviously they have been importing too much crack from Jupiter. They should know it is too strong for humans.
Contrary to popular belief, ownership by individuals of extraterrestrial properties is not forbidden.
Well, ok, but it does not therefore follow that anyone will take any of these claims seriously.
The US government has several years to contest such a claim. They never did. Neither did the United Nations nor the Russian Government.
They've never contested my claim that I'm Napolean Bonapart, either.
Two former US President and several very prominent stars own their Lunar property already.
Did they actually *buy* claims, or were they gag gifts?
This is all pretty silly. If some really rich person -- let's call him D.D. Harriman -- went up and established a lunar colony, and some nut tried to take him to court because he did it on land "claimed" this way, it'd take a judge about 5 minutes to throw the case out. (Not counting the 15 minutes it'd take to stop laughing.)
"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan
Didn't that happen way back when America was founded...the settlers selling people the native american's land? Kinda funny, wait till they find out there's life on one'a the planets and people go and try to build their summer homes there and the natives get a little hostile. Ray Bradbury, here we come...
On another note, has anybody heard the commercials where you can pay to name stars? I heard about that briefly, is this something similar?
Those who talk do not know.
Those who know do not talk.
Keep your mouth closed.