I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to grasp.
Google's privacy statement and stand on student privacy (no direct marketing/child's identity is not monetized) makes complete sense. They are fully within their rights to aggregate trends in a user base without deep mining individual data. The follow up (what I'm dealing with, for example) is the ability to migrate a G Suite for Edu account to a a personal account once the student graduates... at that point, they're fair game.
Even within K-12, very few people up the management ladder have any concept of what's happening behind the scenes (and demonstrate that they really do not want to know).
BASIC was the launching pad for indoctrination for nearly 10 years and offers a lot to the curious mind. Is it clutsy? Sure. Is it effective for 'type and see' exploration? Absolutely.
I'm part of the early second generation of home computers users (early 80's, Apple IIe); so my first exposure as a kid to computers centered around Applesoft BASIC. At 12 or so, I recall a tech minded adult (a teacher, if memory serves) explaining that Apple, Atari and Commodore (the most common systems one might find in a middle school computer lab) all licensed their BASIC from Microsoft and explained how it was hardcoded into ROM.
At that point, I began comparing the BASIC 'type and see' stuff included in the computer mags at the time (Compute! and the like). They all looked similar, but didn't quite mesh. Why? What was going on? This led me to Beagle Bros., hanging a Peeks & Pokes chart on the wall above my venerable IIe and trying to learn more. Ultimately, it also led me to opening the case and exploring the chips on the board, trying to visualize what I was typing and where it was happening.
The progression ladder is there... 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit, 64 bit as are the documented real world platforms that used them. Included in this evolution are also clearly outlined (and historically relevant) ecosystem collapses and platform extinctions.
To this day, I still say that the use of good emulators for three or four 8 bit systems would be the natural beginning for real exploration. Introduce a concept, offer similar environments for said concept to be demonstrated and explore the differences.
I'm not talking about spending years here, kids don't need years. Inside of a first year STEM track program (we're talking about focusing on 5-7th graders, btw), the perspective of time is not the same. You could easily focus on a single year to ground in fundamental logic in programming and have kids doing really impressive stuff -- meanwhile learning flexibility (Okay, you've accomplished this on a C64, now repeat by porting it to an Apple IIe). Provided the documentation, guidance and participation... the kid that asks, "Okay, so how do I make this run faster, easier to port, etc...?" is the kid that gets the need to move to assembler, is looking for a compiler, etc...
They're also learning efficiency in code due to the limitations of the architecture being emulated. That's a valuable lesson as well.
This also opens another track... not everyone will be a programmer. But those concepts might serve as a launching pad in other directions. "Wait, so this is a real computer, working real time inside a different computer? Can the two talk to each other?" You have the possibility of observing and guiding inclination, curiosity and skill sets toward gratifying pursuits.
A sysadmin, network admin and programmer will all look at a problem differently. All three are valuable. There is no right or wrong at that age, only approach to solving a problem. That's the point of education.
The whole knee-jerk reaction to how bad BASIC was, all of the terrible habits it formed, whatever... all seem to overlook the fact that it got kids (and adults) hooked. They moved on.
The technology world didn't get waylayed by BASIC, it got an entire generation of initiates.
I have far more of an issue teaching these lego-block hour of code programs and then thinking what? We're going to toss them into JAVA/Python and call the day done.
I think the best modern interpretation I've seen is with the Pi, Minecraft and Python as it most closely resembled what really helped kids decide whether their interest was in digging deeper or just playing around and scratching an itch.
Feed Atlas Shrugged into a Markov generator, spit the output to text to speech via Siri/Alexa on a golf course while passing around cocaine and highballs and watch the contracts get signed.
I don't disagree with your observation at all. I think that Microsoft created a lot of fill in solutions that were baked into workflow over the 90's/00's (abuses of Excel as a poor man's database).
Most of the people I know that "must have" Excel are people that have inherited (or grew into) a position where they'd be a lot happier if they'd have picked up *SQL and tossed some of their learning curve toward php/python. However, Microsoft did something "right" with Office... they let the end user build complexity in an environment that required no additional tools nor unsightly under the hood involvement.
The number of times I've been brought into a project that begins with someone sharing a massive.xlsm and then shaking their head why I can't open it right then and there (my legacy responsibilities are still as a Mac sysadmin, so I carry a Macbook) never fails to amuse (and frustrate) me. The same goes with finding out that 'Bob' is leaving and has a couple of decades of workflow baked into Access, now someone needs to maintain those projects (I've seen the same with Filemaker, btw....).
Right now, I'm watching an absolute abuse of Google's offerings spread like wild fire. People are pulled into projects and are churning out immediate 'results' by offering up a mish-mash of Forms/Sheets/extensions and addons... None of them are developers, many don't even qualify as power users but are being directed from above into positions of visibility in areas that are not their strength. This (in my opinion) is the net result of the "Do more with less." philosophy that's becoming increasingly pervasive in my industry.
The real problem turns into this: All of this could be cleared up with some planning and development time. The cycle could end, but it won't. Path of least resistance is to continue on and force more and more people through a cycle of learning someone's else's ad hoc solutions as part of a mission critical product.
As I'm approaching 50, I'm starting to see why so many in our field say, "Screw this, I'd rather work with my hands." I think back to my university days of running heavy equipment to pay the bills (and before I made a little too much money installing the odd Lantastic networks for local businesses) and regret not sticking with that philosophy major (or just running a backhoe and playing guitar).
I have no horse in this race; beyond setting up a RetroPie build that includes a few NES/SNES games, Nintendo hasn't been on my radar in over twenty years.
That said... A Reddit post from yesterday consisting of a "Hey, Reddit... look at this shit!" with a "Yeah, me too!" in the comments now constitutes a discussion on Slashdot? Is this really where we're going?
Fuck the signal, let's just pump noise! Good job, BeauHD.
I work in public education with adults (very well paid, upper tier district administrators) that say this kind of shit. I'm also fed up with the whole "hour of code" based lego blocking of tiles on a screen once a year and saying it means something (yes, it'd be a great on ramp if STEM began in K-2 and the student was using a touch screen interface... but we'd still have to discuss why STEM should start with programming vs. a solid foundation in traditional math, science and literacy).
And to have the whole summary neck deep in the first lady and some model that dates her brother-in-law...? Wha?!?
So, yeah. I get it. But the thing to remember is that a 5 year old is the one that made the comment about coding being a "language". 5 year old's get a pass, because they're wee ones, not idiots. They often turn into idiots, unfortunately -- but at 5, they're not.
Except Billy. That kid is as dumb as box of rocks.
I've always felt he was overlooked by the masses as the father of "stuck in the machine" popular sci-fi of the 90's (13th Floor and The Matrix owe him much recognition). In the past couple of years, a couple of really good sci-fi games (Talos Principle and SOMA) have come out that explore these topics and, unfortunately, I read/hear comparisons to these movies and not the deeper source work of Diaspora and Permutation City.
As a philosophy dropout turned IT consultant back in the early 90's, Egan's concepts have provided decades of thought experiments (and as someone with a few mental health issues, an existential crisis or two that teetered on outright psychotic delusion).
I wish I could still read fiction. I've missed his last two works but I continue to love his ideas from afar.
I remember being quite excited about the prospect of some show about a group of mechanics that build end end motorcycles. What I wanted was to watch talented cats build beautiful bikes, what I got was some kind of soap opera.
I'd also love to watch a weekly hour long episode focused on luthiers. Show me the beginning to end process of building a beautifully hand crafted guitar, violin, etc... from picking the wood to testing the acoustics and I'd watch it. Hell, expand it to cover all instruments (even though the Hang Drum is no longer being produced, that would have made an excellent series); but, I know... it'd turn into the same thing: personalities on parade.
I've got an (aging) Mac Mini Server at home that I use for some recording work (Garageband for quick knock out ideas, Reaper for more involved projects). Due to less time with a guitar in hand/sitting at the keys, I thought I'd play around with Steam's streaming solution (using the Mac as the delivery mechanism for the beastly desktop workstation sitting in the home office).
It works very well. Enough that I wound up picking up their dedicated streaming box. I'm wired Cat6 everywhere it counts, so I didn't bother trying wifi (and can see where there could be some real latency issues there), but I am impressed. I played through Soma, on the couch with a mouse, keyboard, 64" lcd and top quality audio gear this past weekend and was rather impressed with the results.
I was dubious on the onset, but they're getting there, mate. As long as the CPU/GPU on the backend are in place (supported with good wiring) for the heavy lifting, streaming is an option.
I'm in agreement with the exception of the "those here should be sent back home - not allowed to find a different employer to sponsor them". The workers are not the problem, the system is.
Fix the system, don't penalize more people for simply wanting to support themselves.
You're in a community that is long steeped in appreciation of Linux and does not view command line interaction as masochism. Hell, most of the Windows professionals here probably spend a great deal of their time in Powershell or Putty sessions.
There's also a certain amount of joy in bashing Windows. Because, well... dealing with it in the past has been a pain point for many. And, it's fun. Sort of like that kid in school that just didn't get that they harder they tried to be cool, the more awkward they became.
Ultimately, your condescending impression of a neck beard will not magically sway anyone's opinion. It will accent your slicked back hair and Duran Duran shirt, though.
I actually am due to a birth defect. Left hand is fine, right is missing at the wrist but has a partial digit.
I learned to type in the mid-80's (Apple II at home) and wound up taking a typing class in high school for some reason. I was averaging 90 wpm with high accuracy, left hand stationed at the home keys, right all over the place to make up for the missing fingers. My poor typing instructor had no idea of what to do except give me an A...
As for split keyboards, they break my rhythm. My left hand occasionally extends to the first column of the right side to pick up extra keys if my right hand has moved to over to the edge of the keyboard.
Where I once had a rotation of 1 or 2u racks, I now have a couple of i7 Mac Minis (with several external dual drive LaCie's in mirrored mode) running VMWare.
As I traded my consulting gig for straight employment a few years ago, I'm housing far less data, too... Nas4Free for files/media, VPN for when I'm at work (which is funny, because as soon as I'm home I VPN into work...), MySQL, GLPi and Calibre.
Other than that, I've got my workstation (probably my last custom build....) in my home office, a couple of Pi's running XBMC and my ever present MacBook Air.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to grasp.
Google's privacy statement and stand on student privacy (no direct marketing/child's identity is not monetized) makes complete sense. They are fully within their rights to aggregate trends in a user base without deep mining individual data. The follow up (what I'm dealing with, for example) is the ability to migrate a G Suite for Edu account to a a personal account once the student graduates... at that point, they're fair game.
Even within K-12, very few people up the management ladder have any concept of what's happening behind the scenes (and demonstrate that they really do not want to know).
You're hired.
But does it enable us to architect vertical methodologies while securing ubiquitous mindshare?
I don't get it either.
BASIC was the launching pad for indoctrination for nearly 10 years and offers a lot to the curious mind. Is it clutsy? Sure. Is it effective for 'type and see' exploration? Absolutely.
I'm part of the early second generation of home computers users (early 80's, Apple IIe); so my first exposure as a kid to computers centered around Applesoft BASIC. At 12 or so, I recall a tech minded adult (a teacher, if memory serves) explaining that Apple, Atari and Commodore (the most common systems one might find in a middle school computer lab) all licensed their BASIC from Microsoft and explained how it was hardcoded into ROM.
At that point, I began comparing the BASIC 'type and see' stuff included in the computer mags at the time (Compute! and the like). They all looked similar, but didn't quite mesh. Why? What was going on? This led me to Beagle Bros., hanging a Peeks & Pokes chart on the wall above my venerable IIe and trying to learn more. Ultimately, it also led me to opening the case and exploring the chips on the board, trying to visualize what I was typing and where it was happening.
The progression ladder is there... 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit, 64 bit as are the documented real world platforms that used them. Included in this evolution are also clearly outlined (and historically relevant) ecosystem collapses and platform extinctions.
To this day, I still say that the use of good emulators for three or four 8 bit systems would be the natural beginning for real exploration. Introduce a concept, offer similar environments for said concept to be demonstrated and explore the differences.
I'm not talking about spending years here, kids don't need years. Inside of a first year STEM track program (we're talking about focusing on 5-7th graders, btw), the perspective of time is not the same. You could easily focus on a single year to ground in fundamental logic in programming and have kids doing really impressive stuff -- meanwhile learning flexibility (Okay, you've accomplished this on a C64, now repeat by porting it to an Apple IIe). Provided the documentation, guidance and participation... the kid that asks, "Okay, so how do I make this run faster, easier to port, etc...?" is the kid that gets the need to move to assembler, is looking for a compiler, etc...
They're also learning efficiency in code due to the limitations of the architecture being emulated. That's a valuable lesson as well.
This also opens another track... not everyone will be a programmer. But those concepts might serve as a launching pad in other directions. "Wait, so this is a real computer, working real time inside a different computer? Can the two talk to each other?" You have the possibility of observing and guiding inclination, curiosity and skill sets toward gratifying pursuits.
A sysadmin, network admin and programmer will all look at a problem differently. All three are valuable. There is no right or wrong at that age, only approach to solving a problem. That's the point of education.
The whole knee-jerk reaction to how bad BASIC was, all of the terrible habits it formed, whatever... all seem to overlook the fact that it got kids (and adults) hooked. They moved on.
The technology world didn't get waylayed by BASIC, it got an entire generation of initiates.
I have far more of an issue teaching these lego-block hour of code programs and then thinking what? We're going to toss them into JAVA/Python and call the day done.
I think the best modern interpretation I've seen is with the Pi, Minecraft and Python as it most closely resembled what really helped kids decide whether their interest was in digging deeper or just playing around and scratching an itch.
I read the last line as "If Azathoth..." and thought, well that would just be a template for madness.
Wait, nevermind.
Easy...
Feed Atlas Shrugged into a Markov generator, spit the output to text to speech via Siri/Alexa on a golf course while passing around cocaine and highballs and watch the contracts get signed.
What's the problem?
I don't disagree with your observation at all. I think that Microsoft created a lot of fill in solutions that were baked into workflow over the 90's/00's (abuses of Excel as a poor man's database).
Most of the people I know that "must have" Excel are people that have inherited (or grew into) a position where they'd be a lot happier if they'd have picked up *SQL and tossed some of their learning curve toward php/python. However, Microsoft did something "right" with Office... they let the end user build complexity in an environment that required no additional tools nor unsightly under the hood involvement.
The number of times I've been brought into a project that begins with someone sharing a massive .xlsm and then shaking their head why I can't open it right then and there (my legacy responsibilities are still as a Mac sysadmin, so I carry a Macbook) never fails to amuse (and frustrate) me. The same goes with finding out that 'Bob' is leaving and has a couple of decades of workflow baked into Access, now someone needs to maintain those projects (I've seen the same with Filemaker, btw....).
Right now, I'm watching an absolute abuse of Google's offerings spread like wild fire. People are pulled into projects and are churning out immediate 'results' by offering up a mish-mash of Forms/Sheets/extensions and addons... None of them are developers, many don't even qualify as power users but are being directed from above into positions of visibility in areas that are not their strength. This (in my opinion) is the net result of the "Do more with less." philosophy that's becoming increasingly pervasive in my industry.
The real problem turns into this: All of this could be cleared up with some planning and development time. The cycle could end, but it won't. Path of least resistance is to continue on and force more and more people through a cycle of learning someone's else's ad hoc solutions as part of a mission critical product.
As I'm approaching 50, I'm starting to see why so many in our field say, "Screw this, I'd rather work with my hands." I think back to my university days of running heavy equipment to pay the bills (and before I made a little too much money installing the odd Lantastic networks for local businesses) and regret not sticking with that philosophy major (or just running a backhoe and playing guitar).
I have no horse in this race; beyond setting up a RetroPie build that includes a few NES/SNES games, Nintendo hasn't been on my radar in over twenty years.
That said... A Reddit post from yesterday consisting of a "Hey, Reddit... look at this shit!" with a "Yeah, me too!" in the comments now constitutes a discussion on Slashdot? Is this really where we're going?
Fuck the signal, let's just pump noise! Good job, BeauHD.
Sigh.
That's what I get for responding before I've finished my first cup of coffee and am really awake.
Apologies, meerling. Yours is the correct choice of words.
I get the underlying disgust, man.
I work in public education with adults (very well paid, upper tier district administrators) that say this kind of shit. I'm also fed up with the whole "hour of code" based lego blocking of tiles on a screen once a year and saying it means something (yes, it'd be a great on ramp if STEM began in K-2 and the student was using a touch screen interface... but we'd still have to discuss why STEM should start with programming vs. a solid foundation in traditional math, science and literacy).
And to have the whole summary neck deep in the first lady and some model that dates her brother-in-law...? Wha?!?
So, yeah. I get it. But the thing to remember is that a 5 year old is the one that made the comment about coding being a "language". 5 year old's get a pass, because they're wee ones, not idiots. They often turn into idiots, unfortunately -- but at 5, they're not.
Except Billy. That kid is as dumb as box of rocks.
Even better when you consider that an improper filter set to prevent this winds up causing seizures for everyone up in HR.
"Be back, in a bit. I have to go reboot Bob again."
No mod points at the moment, so I'll offer a simple, "Well said."
Might as well blame the continuation of the electoral college then, because the popular vote picked Clintonbot, not the Oompaloompa.
I withheld my vote for president as I'm unable to go on record and select, "I'm here, I'm willing but I won't pick trash over garbage."
I appreciate seeing Egan brought up.
I've always felt he was overlooked by the masses as the father of "stuck in the machine" popular sci-fi of the 90's (13th Floor and The Matrix owe him much recognition). In the past couple of years, a couple of really good sci-fi games (Talos Principle and SOMA) have come out that explore these topics and, unfortunately, I read/hear comparisons to these movies and not the deeper source work of Diaspora and Permutation City.
As a philosophy dropout turned IT consultant back in the early 90's, Egan's concepts have provided decades of thought experiments (and as someone with a few mental health issues, an existential crisis or two that teetered on outright psychotic delusion).
I wish I could still read fiction. I've missed his last two works but I continue to love his ideas from afar.
Whereas a drone delivered BLT would definitely hit my charge card.
Unfortunately, this is true.
I remember being quite excited about the prospect of some show about a group of mechanics that build end end motorcycles. What I wanted was to watch talented cats build beautiful bikes, what I got was some kind of soap opera.
I'd also love to watch a weekly hour long episode focused on luthiers. Show me the beginning to end process of building a beautifully hand crafted guitar, violin, etc... from picking the wood to testing the acoustics and I'd watch it. Hell, expand it to cover all instruments (even though the Hang Drum is no longer being produced, that would have made an excellent series); but, I know... it'd turn into the same thing: personalities on parade.
I've got an (aging) Mac Mini Server at home that I use for some recording work (Garageband for quick knock out ideas, Reaper for more involved projects). Due to less time with a guitar in hand/sitting at the keys, I thought I'd play around with Steam's streaming solution (using the Mac as the delivery mechanism for the beastly desktop workstation sitting in the home office).
It works very well. Enough that I wound up picking up their dedicated streaming box. I'm wired Cat6 everywhere it counts, so I didn't bother trying wifi (and can see where there could be some real latency issues there), but I am impressed. I played through Soma, on the couch with a mouse, keyboard, 64" lcd and top quality audio gear this past weekend and was rather impressed with the results.
I was dubious on the onset, but they're getting there, mate. As long as the CPU/GPU on the backend are in place (supported with good wiring) for the heavy lifting, streaming is an option.
I'm in agreement with the exception of the "those here should be sent back home - not allowed to find a different employer to sponsor them". The workers are not the problem, the system is.
Fix the system, don't penalize more people for simply wanting to support themselves.
Here's the thing...
You're in a community that is long steeped in appreciation of Linux and does not view command line interaction as masochism. Hell, most of the Windows professionals here probably spend a great deal of their time in Powershell or Putty sessions.
There's also a certain amount of joy in bashing Windows. Because, well... dealing with it in the past has been a pain point for many. And, it's fun. Sort of like that kid in school that just didn't get that they harder they tried to be cool, the more awkward they became.
Ultimately, your condescending impression of a neck beard will not magically sway anyone's opinion. It will accent your slicked back hair and Duran Duran shirt, though.
Very well stated.
I actually am due to a birth defect. Left hand is fine, right is missing at the wrist but has a partial digit.
I learned to type in the mid-80's (Apple II at home) and wound up taking a typing class in high school for some reason. I was averaging 90 wpm with high accuracy, left hand stationed at the home keys, right all over the place to make up for the missing fingers. My poor typing instructor had no idea of what to do except give me an A...
As for split keyboards, they break my rhythm. My left hand occasionally extends to the first column of the right side to pick up extra keys if my right hand has moved to over to the edge of the keyboard.
It's gotten lackluster support across the board. For a device with a lot of potential, it's got a lot of ugly bumps.
I'm currently implementing it as part of our digital learning platform.
Not sure if it covers all the things you need, but it's a start.
Read that post again, this time in Ron Perlman's voice.
Where I once had a rotation of 1 or 2u racks, I now have a couple of i7 Mac Minis (with several external dual drive LaCie's in mirrored mode) running VMWare.
As I traded my consulting gig for straight employment a few years ago, I'm housing far less data, too... Nas4Free for files/media, VPN for when I'm at work (which is funny, because as soon as I'm home I VPN into work...), MySQL, GLPi and Calibre.
Other than that, I've got my workstation (probably my last custom build....) in my home office, a couple of Pi's running XBMC and my ever present MacBook Air.