Bringing about THOSE TYPES of lawsuits is a very dubious thing to do. Monsanto (I believe) has done this in the past, and it should not be allowed.
But if you'd RTFA - in the case we're talking about now, the guy saved and re-used the seeds he bought from Monsanto - which he had previously agreed not to do.
In this specific instance, Monsanto has a good case. But indeed, in the ones that you refer to - they're just being ignorant assholes.
The farmer bought seeds from Monsanto, thereby agreeing to their terms and conditions. One of those terms was that he COULD NOT save and re-plant seeds next year - he would either have to buy them again, or use a different type of seed.
He is being sued because he saved and re-planted seeds. Exactly what he agreed not to do by purchasing the seeds in the first place.
Don't like the Terms and Conditions? Don't use their product.
There have been reports of VERY shady Monsanto lawsuits in the past that were really crappy - but this one seems fair enough.
Secunia Advisory: SA12889 Release Date: 2004-10-20 Last Update: 2005-01-07
[...]
2005-01-07: Increased rating. Added link to test. Updated "Description" and "Solution" sections
OH MY GOD, THEY INCREASED THE RATING OF A THREE MONTH OLD BUG!!!! THIS IS TOTALLY FRONT-PAGE NEWS AND NOT AT ALL FLAMEBAIT!!!!
A lot of people seem to be missing something...
on
A College Guide to EA
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
EVERY SINGLE PERSON who works at EA is working at EA because at one point in time, they wanted to.
I'm a CS grad, and most of my fellow CS grads, including myself, originally got into progtamming / CS because we wanted to do games.
Along the way there, EVERYONE knew that game developers worked long hours for little pay. Most of my friends then chose to follow another path. I wound up going into the Power Industry.
Even in spite of all the bad press EA has been getting (even though it's deserved), there are still tens of thousands of people who would sell their souls to work on an EA game.
No, that does not excuse the employee's mistreatment entirely. But you can't ignore that fact.
I've got one friend who ended up going into the Games Industry anyways, in spite of all the stories. Every once in a while we'll all get together and play the latest game he worked on. He gets bragging rights that none of the rest of us do. Everyone else writes business or industrial Apps. Nobody WE talk to gives a squirt of piss to see our latest creations, but everyone can't wait to see the newest game he churned out.
So in the end, I don't think it's fair to look at EA as this huge monolithic beast that's 100% evil, and all the poor poor employees as 100% victims. They knew what they were getting into when they applied (or at least they SHOULD'VE done their research). And now they're just getting what they should've expected.
Not everyone gets paid a huge salary and mega-benefits to work their dream jobs.
They proved their point by putting themselves high up in the ranks.
A legitimate Research project should NOT have involved messing with other people's accounts.
If you want to do that, have some person known to the researchers make up an account with the express purpose of their team trying to steal the password.
"Would you help me cross the river?" The scorpion asks the turtle.
"Hop on!" Says the turtle generously, "but you have to promise not to sting me?"
"I promise." The scorpion declares.
He then hops on. The turtle swims across the river. Just as they get to the other bank the scorpion stings the turtle.
"Why did you do that?" Asks the turtle painfully right before he takes his last breath and sinks under the water.
"it is in my nature..." The scorpion answers.
(copied from here)
Not long ago I worked for a company with a similar situation. We asked this brilliant coder why he left his last job. He very honestly answered that he was a drunk and it caused him not to be able to do his last job, but assured us he was getting help and now clean and sober.
A couple months later he was doing terrible work, and back drinking. We confronted him about it.
All he had to say was, "What'd you expect? I told you that I was a drunk.".
If my system is so wide-open that a well-meaning moron can get in through traditional virus means - I deserve a borked DVD player.
I guess I was imagining some ideal "magic" virus that will keep EVERY machine (Even the non-vulnerable ones) 100% up to date.
All I'm saying is that even if that were possible (yes, I'm aware that it's not), it would still be a retarded idea.
Re:What if someone made a worm that just........
on
New Worm Installs Sniffer
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
......ran windows update on all infected machines? Would people get pissed?
Would people get pissed? HELL YES.
I recall one particularly annoying weekend when my computer DVD player stopped working. Something screwed up or something - whatever it was, the damn video was not being decoded properly.
Tried everything I could think of. New Drive, New Drivers, endless newsgroup searching, blah blah blah to no avail.
Then it occured to me that between the time that my DVD player last worked and then did not, I had installed Win2k SP4.
So just as a test I went and uninstalled the bastard, everything worked FINE after that - with the original HW/SW configuration.
So now I'm not installing SP4 because it BREAKS MY SYSTEM - not because I'm unaware of it, or too stupid to install it.
I don't need nor want some dumbass "I'm smarter than you, and doing this for your own good" 1337 prick trying to install SP4 for me.
This type is based upon the claim that a controversial type of action will lead inevitably to some admittedly bad type of action. It is the slide from A to Z via the intermediate steps B through Y that is the "slope", and the smallness of each step that makes it "slippery".
This type of argument is by no means invariably fallacious, but the strength of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of steps between A and Z, and directly proportional to the causal strength of the connections between adjacent steps. If there are many intervening steps, and the causal connections between them are weak, or even unknown, then the resulting argument will be very weak, if not downright fallacious.
I hear the phrase 'slippery slope' on Slashdot alot, but it's a pathetic argument (being a logical fallacy [datanation.com]).
Wow - did you even read the link you posted? Do you have any clue what a logical fallacy actually is?
What YOUR OWN link is saying is that the way to refute a 'Slippery Slope' argument is to show how the huge consequence does not necessarily follow from the initial step.
Slippery Slope arguments are perfectly valid - EVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN LINK.
Censorship does not START with a law being inacted against saying XYZ.
Censorship STARTS with someone saying "Saying XYZ goes too far" - without qualifying the statement further.
You want to say "This game is disgusting, deals with subject matter in a way that I cannot agree with." that's fine. Whatever.
But using the phrase "... Goes too far" (Direct quote, look up - way up) is implying that some unwritten rule of what's acceptable has been broken. If you want to use that or similar phrases, but still support free speech, you MUST qualify that statement further. (ie. "This game goes too far. I do not think it should be consored, but I still find it disgusting.".
All it takes to start down the slippery slope is for one guy to say "This goes too far.", and a few more to agree with the literal meaning of the phrase.
Slashdot is usually a bastion of free speech. Hell, we've got the YRO section specifically dedicated to censorship and whatnot.
I can't believe how many posts are saying this game "goes too far". This game. When ManHunt first came out. It seems Slashdotters have no problem saying which games should not be allowed to exist.
I've got bad news for you - kids. Being in favor of Free Speech and Freedom in general means DEFENDING both the things that you agree with, and ESPECIALLY those things that YOU find offensive.
You people make me sick.
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
Yeah, it's Linux so in Slashdot's eyes they instantly get 10 cool points, but come on.
Stuff not working out of the box is noteworthy in a bad way. Everything working the way that it's supposed to is just what's supposed to happen.
Yeah, I know for a long time it was a criticism of Linux that driver support sucked - so in a way I can understand why he'd mention it. But the fact that everything is supported on the laptop is not a good (TM) thing. It's merely the absence of a bad thing.
It's like saying that a new Windows Laptop was the best ever because it didn't explode when powered up, and didn't cause severe burns to the user's lap. Yeah, great that that's true, but it's not something to go around advertising - that would just show that you expected otherwise.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, certainly.
Bringing about THOSE TYPES of lawsuits is a very dubious thing to do. Monsanto (I believe) has done this in the past, and it should not be allowed.
But if you'd RTFA - in the case we're talking about now, the guy saved and re-used the seeds he bought from Monsanto - which he had previously agreed not to do.
In this specific instance, Monsanto has a good case. But indeed, in the ones that you refer to - they're just being ignorant assholes.
The farmer bought seeds from Monsanto, thereby agreeing to their terms and conditions. One of those terms was that he COULD NOT save and re-plant seeds next year - he would either have to buy them again, or use a different type of seed.
He is being sued because he saved and re-planted seeds. Exactly what he agreed not to do by purchasing the seeds in the first place.
Don't like the Terms and Conditions? Don't use their product.
There have been reports of VERY shady Monsanto lawsuits in the past that were really crappy - but this one seems fair enough.
The more time you spend asleep - the fewer hours there are to spend eating!
Where's my reserach grant?
Secunia Advisory: SA12889
Release Date: 2004-10-20
Last Update: 2005-01-07
[...]
2005-01-07: Increased rating. Added link to test. Updated "Description" and "Solution" sections
OH MY GOD, THEY INCREASED THE RATING OF A THREE MONTH OLD BUG!!!! THIS IS TOTALLY FRONT-PAGE NEWS AND NOT AT ALL FLAMEBAIT!!!!
EVERY SINGLE PERSON who works at EA is working at EA because at one point in time, they wanted to.
I'm a CS grad, and most of my fellow CS grads, including myself, originally got into progtamming / CS because we wanted to do games.
Along the way there, EVERYONE knew that game developers worked long hours for little pay. Most of my friends then chose to follow another path. I wound up going into the Power Industry.
Even in spite of all the bad press EA has been getting (even though it's deserved), there are still tens of thousands of people who would sell their souls to work on an EA game.
No, that does not excuse the employee's mistreatment entirely. But you can't ignore that fact.
I've got one friend who ended up going into the Games Industry anyways, in spite of all the stories. Every once in a while we'll all get together and play the latest game he worked on. He gets bragging rights that none of the rest of us do. Everyone else writes business or industrial Apps. Nobody WE talk to gives a squirt of piss to see our latest creations, but everyone can't wait to see the newest game he churned out.
So in the end, I don't think it's fair to look at EA as this huge monolithic beast that's 100% evil, and all the poor poor employees as 100% victims. They knew what they were getting into when they applied (or at least they SHOULD'VE done their research). And now they're just getting what they should've expected.
Not everyone gets paid a huge salary and mega-benefits to work their dream jobs.
What about the TORRENT!? ... (taps foot impatiently)
From the start, everyone here has been saying that since they owned the XBox machine, they can mod it however they want.
Great. Go nuts.
But it works both ways. Microsoft owns the Live Network - and if they say "No Modded XBoxes", that's what it means.
They are under no obligation to let you break their rules. Just because some people have gotten away with it up until now means nothing.
... But that makes me actually respect Eminmem...
... Wow, that hurts just to type...
Kind of dick move, no?
They proved their point by putting themselves high up in the ranks.
A legitimate Research project should NOT have involved messing with other people's accounts.
If you want to do that, have some person known to the researchers make up an account with the express purpose of their team trying to steal the password.
Actually - strictly speaking, it is true.
There is one mission in Vice City where you and Lance must lure 2 Police-men into a Garage to kill them, take their uniforms, and their patrol car.
It is not possible to complete Vice City without completing this mission.
Not that I'm defending this dillhole lawyer - but one cannot just dismiss out of hand a simple fact such as this one.
There're a couple twits in my office that do this (Bike to work every day as exercies).
You can pick them out easily, because they end up smelling up the place.
For the sake of all that is good and holy, DO NOT bike into work unless you intend to SHOWER when you get there.
Putting the word "Porn" in the headline when no actual pr0n is involved is just CRUEL.
"Would you help me cross the river?" The scorpion asks the turtle.
"Hop on!" Says the turtle generously, "but you have to promise not to sting me?"
"I promise." The scorpion declares.
He then hops on. The turtle swims across the river. Just as they get to the other bank the scorpion stings the turtle.
"Why did you do that?" Asks the turtle painfully right before he takes his last breath and sinks under the water.
"it is in my nature..." The scorpion answers. (copied from here)
Not long ago I worked for a company with a similar situation. We asked this brilliant coder why he left his last job. He very honestly answered that he was a drunk and it caused him not to be able to do his last job, but assured us he was getting help and now clean and sober.
A couple months later he was doing terrible work, and back drinking. We confronted him about it.
All he had to say was, "What'd you expect? I told you that I was a drunk.".
Yeah, that's true.
If my system is so wide-open that a well-meaning moron can get in through traditional virus means - I deserve a borked DVD player.
I guess I was imagining some ideal "magic" virus that will keep EVERY machine (Even the non-vulnerable ones) 100% up to date.
All I'm saying is that even if that were possible (yes, I'm aware that it's not), it would still be a retarded idea.
......ran windows update on all infected machines? Would people get pissed?
Would people get pissed? HELL YES.
I recall one particularly annoying weekend when my computer DVD player stopped working. Something screwed up or something - whatever it was, the damn video was not being decoded properly.
Tried everything I could think of. New Drive, New Drivers, endless newsgroup searching, blah blah blah to no avail.
Then it occured to me that between the time that my DVD player last worked and then did not, I had installed Win2k SP4.
So just as a test I went and uninstalled the bastard, everything worked FINE after that - with the original HW/SW configuration.
So now I'm not installing SP4 because it BREAKS MY SYSTEM - not because I'm unaware of it, or too stupid to install it.
I don't need nor want some dumbass "I'm smarter than you, and doing this for your own good" 1337 prick trying to install SP4 for me.
How good is the robot at playing 'Go'?
Foosball's solution space is trivial compare to that of 'Go' - where even the best comptuers can still be easily beaten by a skilled ametuer.
(No, I'm not serious - just so sick of idiot Go-Evnagelists in Chess threads)
From http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html
This type is based upon the claim that a controversial type of action will lead inevitably to some admittedly bad type of action. It is the slide from A to Z via the intermediate steps B through Y that is the "slope", and the smallness of each step that makes it "slippery".
This type of argument is by no means invariably fallacious, but the strength of the argument is inversely proportional to the number of steps between A and Z, and directly proportional to the causal strength of the connections between adjacent steps. If there are many intervening steps, and the causal connections between them are weak, or even unknown, then the resulting argument will be very weak, if not downright fallacious.
I hear the phrase 'slippery slope' on Slashdot alot, but it's a pathetic argument (being a logical fallacy [datanation.com]).
Wow - did you even read the link you posted? Do you have any clue what a logical fallacy actually is?
What YOUR OWN link is saying is that the way to refute a 'Slippery Slope' argument is to show how the huge consequence does not necessarily follow from the initial step.
Slippery Slope arguments are perfectly valid - EVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN LINK.
I was waiting for somebody to make this argument.
Censorship does not START with a law being inacted against saying XYZ.
Censorship STARTS with someone saying "Saying XYZ goes too far" - without qualifying the statement further.
You want to say "This game is disgusting, deals with subject matter in a way that I cannot agree with." that's fine. Whatever.
But using the phrase "... Goes too far" (Direct quote, look up - way up) is implying that some unwritten rule of what's acceptable has been broken. If you want to use that or similar phrases, but still support free speech, you MUST qualify that statement further. (ie. "This game goes too far. I do not think it should be consored, but I still find it disgusting.".
All it takes to start down the slippery slope is for one guy to say "This goes too far.", and a few more to agree with the literal meaning of the phrase.
Slashdot is usually a bastion of free speech. Hell, we've got the YRO section specifically dedicated to censorship and whatnot.
I can't believe how many posts are saying this game "goes too far". This game. When ManHunt first came out. It seems Slashdotters have no problem saying which games should not be allowed to exist.
I've got bad news for you - kids. Being in favor of Free Speech and Freedom in general means DEFENDING both the things that you agree with, and ESPECIALLY those things that YOU find offensive.
You people make me sick.
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
That's because you're a mindless sheep who needs others to tell you what to think. Get your head out of your ass.
So, you're saying what, now?
We DO still hate Disney?
Thanks, Bro!
We still hate Disney, right?
Or do we like them now? Or do we like thier fireworks - but feel immediately compelled to qualify that statement with BUT DISNEY STILL SUCKS...
I'm so confused.
Yeah, it's Linux so in Slashdot's eyes they instantly get 10 cool points, but come on.
Stuff not working out of the box is noteworthy in a bad way. Everything working the way that it's supposed to is just what's supposed to happen.
Yeah, I know for a long time it was a criticism of Linux that driver support sucked - so in a way I can understand why he'd mention it. But the fact that everything is supported on the laptop is not a good (TM) thing. It's merely the absence of a bad thing.
It's like saying that a new Windows Laptop was the best ever because it didn't explode when powered up, and didn't cause severe burns to the user's lap. Yeah, great that that's true, but it's not something to go around advertising - that would just show that you expected otherwise.
Stalk Steven Hawking, bet what he bets.
... Or just knock him down and take his winnings. Either way, Bling-Bling!
Without ten more years of new Star Wars, whatever would fans have to complain about?