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Sleep Less, Eat More?
Ant writes "A study, published Monday, found that people who sleep less tend to be fat, and experts said it's time to find if more sleep will fight obesity. Monday's study from Eastern Virginia Medical School in Norfolk covered 1,000 people and found that total sleep time decreased as body mass index -- a measure of weight based on height -- increased. Men slept an average of 27 minutes less than women and overweight and obese patients slept less than patients with normal weights, it said. In general the fatter subjects slept about 1.8 hours a week less than those with normal weights."
Ummm, yeah. I talked about this in my journal some time ago back in November. And yes, I used to run a sleep lab, so I feel validated in commenting on this from a medical perspective. At any rate, there were some serious problems with this study in terms of proper controls, including analysis of sleep disordered breathing (causing sleeplessness) that may in of itself be due to pre existing obesity. However, the simplest explanation could be the obvious one which the original poster commented on in the title and that John Harrison also got in a comment in my journal: Sleeping less means more time available for eating! Simple correlative studies are rarely terribly valuable, but on topics as important or as commonly dealt with including obesity, cancer and heart disease always get a fair bit of press.
Granted, studies with large numbers of people in them tend to be expensive and are the only way to detect small variances in the population, but I often think the money would be better spent on smaller, more thorough, better designed studies with more controls and experimental conditions.
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How many calories would be equivalent if you sleep one more hour every day?
Noting that states A and B appear to have a mutual relationship does not mean that A implies B, it could just as easily mean that B implies A, or even that the statistics are skewed by something else...
If it turns out that fat people have more trouble sleeping than thin ones, then they would sleep less, but trying to force them to sleep more (drugs perhaps) would not necessarily decrease their weight...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
I always said: Early to bed, late to school .. makes Jack a healthy boy.
The more time you spend asleep - the fewer hours there are to spend eating!
Where's my reserach grant?
...Also, I didn't know Buggalo could fly.
now all the crazy fat mcdonalds eating american fatties are going to be sleeping in, but instead of being lazy, they'll be 'on diets'
/* No Comment */
I have sleep apnea and I will testify before you all that because of significant sleep deprivation during my youth, I had to eat foods that were:
a) Rich in sugar or grease
b) Fast and easy to prepare
If these conditions aren't met, I could not function very well, even with CPAP.
I was born with an unusually narrow throat, and I spent most of my early childhood as a beanpole -- I was super skinny. But after years of chronic apnea, due to the OSA, I slowly grew... and then suddenly I became super-sized.
I would daydream in class (ie: getting my waking REM), and even fall asleep during lectures.
I had zero energy, so I drank a pot of coffee in the morning and one in the afternoon, along with cigarettes to speed my heart up and get me going. I could never have graduated from school without doing this. Society requires that everyone must perform at a uniformed level, unless you have a disability, but my disability was never discovered until I was 30yrs. That's 30yrs of health slippage....
The point is... people with sleeping disorders need to have the disorders fixed, but the current CPAP machines are really not a solution -- they aren't ready to combat the seasons properly and they are horrible for people with dust allergies.
Until a solution for apnea is found and people realize that being overweight is not the cause, but a symptom -- people with apnea and other sleeping disorders won't be very healthy (mentally, emotionally or physically).
Wake me when I'm thin.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Of course there could be the confound that people who have healthier sleeping habits also have healthier eating habits. But it's worth looking into.
The ultimate goal of science is to unify all forces of nature to a single law that can be silk-screened onto a T-shirt.
You need time to eat.
Couldn't that be a valid conclusion as well? Chicken or the egg.
because they are up getting midnight snacks while the rest of us are snoring?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
There are some studies that link high cortisol levels (due to stress) with an increased chance of obesity.
Could it be simply that people who got enough sleep were less stressed?
www.eFax.com are spammers
That explains everything. Need to work out.
If you're interested in all things sleep, there's a new blog called Circadiana about that sort of stuff.
[o]_O
Did it not occur to anyone that if you're sleeping you're incapable of eating?? I mean if some lardass is up for 20 hours/day, then he's going to consume 30-40 tacos vs. 10-20 tacos if he's sleeping for 20 hours/day. This same logic means that people quit smoking, everyday -- right before bed. The longer they sleep, the better they are at getting over their addiction? :|
What? "it's time find"??
You know, how it feels good after you exercise a bit? Or how it hurts to overeat? How you're tired when you don't sleep enough?
I'm doing the South Beach diet right now, and really it's just about teaching yourself to eat right again (it's not a low-carb diet like a lot of people think it is). The big thing of it for me is that this is all stuff I knew -- eat three meals a day, don't pig out, sugar and processed flour are bad for you, etc -- but I'd just forgotten.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Now could this because the obese feel compelled to wake up and eat?
It's a bit more likely that the fat people are simply too uncomfortable to sleep well. They usually get got, can't find a comfortable position, have stomach problems and possibly other physical ailments, as well as mental unrest due to many factors including concern about their weight.
I doubt very much that more sleep will cause a reduction in weight. That is, unless they sleep so long that they start missing meals.
Can we get some common sense over here?
Some of it might have to do with the relationship between obesity and lack of exercise. When I am on a regular exercise regime, I find myself forced to sleep 7 or 8 hours a night rather than 5 or 6 -- otherwise I feel completely exhausted. Sedentary people may be able to get by on less sleep than the physically active.
I didn't RTFA, but I want to get a quick soundbyte in anyhow.
Repeat after me:
Correlation =! Causation
Sank you!
Without having read TFA, I can already say that this is fairly obvious if you think about it.
When you start to get tired, you feel low-energy. When you feel low-energy, you eat "quick energy" foods - those that are readily metabolized and high in calories. It's your body saying "Oh, crap! We don't have enough energy right now! Do something about it!" (This is due to falling glucose levels in the brain as you get tired, but I'm sure that's covered in TFA.)
Of course, you don't really need the energy, you need sleep. The result is that you take in waaay more calories than your body actually uses. The more sleep deprived you are, the more this happens.
It makes me wonder if there's a causal relationship between the decreasing amount of sleep your average American (and, indeed, member of any industrialized nation) gets and the increases seen in obesity.
That green slime had it coming.
Like my cat
They clearly screwed up. I'm fat as hell and I sleep all the time! Like 8-9 hours a night!!!!
There is no magic bullet for losing weight. The only thing that works is a life long commitment to excercise and a proper diet. Atkins will probably cut years of your life and any fat absorbsion reducing pill is just going to give you greasy shits and destroy liver.
Studies show this, this diet seems to be working that. Well, next year studies are going to show this and that are actually harmful.
Eat more veggies, eat no fast food and walk and take the stairs. That is the least you can do for yourselves. You should do a lot more.
i sleep roughly 4 to 4.5 hours a night, eat like a pig, but i do so many drugs im skinny as fuck.. ahh well.. dont wanna live forever do ya..
Should read: They usually get hot, can't find a comfortable position, have stomach problems and possibly other physical ailments, as well as mental unrest due to many factors including concern about their weight.
looks like some words were lost in between narcoleptic episodes...
The more physical activity there is the more the body needs sleep to recuperate. There is also mental activity to be considered here but in the past I have found that not being physically active dulls the brain too.
I love sleep and eating! Don't make me choose!
The enemies of Democracy are
You can never prove cause. Does the lack of sleep cause the obesity or does the obesity cause the lack of sleep? For example, with the obesity comes nasal problems as anyone who has tried to share a hotel room with one of their overweight buddies can probably tell you ;)
-dynamo
Considering I average 5.5 hours of sleep per day. However, I run 3 miles per day eat only two meals and drink lots of water and caffeine and weigh 155 lbs. Did they include someone like me in the study? Of course not. Geez, most studies are designed to prove the intent of those performing the study - not get actual objective information.
I must be misplaced datapoint. I am fat and I like to sleep whole day. yummm sleep!!!
You eat more to stay awake. I don't know about you but if I'm sleep deprived as a result staying up late coding or gaming. I do whatever it takes to stay awake the next day... Coffee with sugar in it. Pop. Foods high in carbohydrates. Of course the sugar fix only lasts 20 minutes so you're constantly looking for that sugar high to keep you up.
Additionally you'd probably are less rational about what foods you do choose.
Get enough sleep and your energy levels are more stable and you're more rational about choosing the foods that are good for you.
so..... if I sleep less the week before Christmas and Thanksgiving, I'll be able to eat more? right?!? Dammit! If I only knew this a couple of weeks ago.
I stole this signature
I would think that having a great big gut would make sleeping uncomfortable, since the mass of your gut would either weigh down your your vitals (if you sleep on your back), or keep you from laying flat (if you sleep on your belly).
Then again, I am not a doctor.
END COMMUNICATION
You've got to be kidding me. THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN AND WELL DOCUMENTED FOR YEARS! It's been common advice from Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig for years to sleep until you're rested. My aunt was even prescribed a mattress, and she lost weight like a champ. Sleep minimizes the effects of stress. Lack of sleep actually increases levels of stress hormones. Stress both slows the metabolism and alters eating/excercise habits.
Good thing I forced my middle-classed self to cook healthy organic dinners, exercise, and etc - despite the free time. Pays off, really.
If it turns out that fat people have more trouble sleeping than thin ones, then they would sleep less, but trying to force them to sleep more (drugs perhaps) would not necessarily decrease their weight...
This is slightly true, but you're missing a key factor. Many more people have Obstructive Sleep Apnea than currently are being treated for it, and among those who are being treated, many are still suffering from sleep loss due to throat obstruction. This obstruction was thought to have been caused by obesity, and it still is by many doctors -- but as being someone who was very skinny in my younger life and someone who became overweight as a result of apnea, I can tell you that obesity is a symptom of sleep deprivation. We eat the things that are easy to prepare (or even fast food), and we eat more sugar to get boosts, as a direct result of not being able to function properly in society. Plus being in a semi-REM state all day long truly hurts one's ability to make sane/wise food choices. And workouts? HA! As if you're going to cruelly force someone who is sleep deprived to excercise! That would be cruel and unusual punishment -- but it's what doctors are recommending.
Until someone comes up with a way to let people with respiratory problems actually function like normal people, there are going to be people getting fat because of their lack of energy.
I'm thinking that oxygen in CPAP machines might actually help, but it's not a standard right now. Also, more humid climates might help if they weren't so bloody hot (making you more relaxed and making it harder to breathe).
Personally I would like to see a kind of room built that controlled the envorionment for people with OSA. If it was self-cleaning -- it would be perfect!
No wonder we geeks do so well at pulling late nighters...
itadakimasu
Studies have shown before that tired people eat to try to restock their bodies energy supply.
Plus, tired soda drinkers drink more soda, and it's harder to excercise while tired for some people.
I sleep 1-2 hours less when exercising. So its time "pays for itself" plus makes me feel better the other 17 hours. I suspect deep breathing and increased blood flow flushes away toxins, especially from a tired brain.
people who live a lifestyle that results in less sleep
are also prone to making bad eating decisions ie. the busy
guy that grabs fast food every day?
While I am definitely in favor of any study that could
be used to justify sleeping more (hooray for sleep),
"less sleep = fatness" seems like a bit of a leap.
I'm overweight. Very overweight.(Over 100 pounds) I know what I'm talking about here.
:p
Fat people sleep less because of this thing called gravity.
I can't get as comfortable as a thin person when I'm trying to fall asleep. Something as simple as rolling over can make my ample body cut off circulation to an arm or leg which disturbs my sleep as well.
No, I'm not whining as this is obviously my fault for years and years of taking zero care of myself. Just stating what(for me) is an obvious fact.
Flame away.
Think back to the last time you did an all-night coding session. What kind of food did you eat? Those vending machines don't exactly sell health food.
For non-nerdy types (and many nerds too) -- think back to your last all-night drinking session. Beer is full of fat and carbs, and the pizza and junk food that goes along with it is pretty fattening too.
And regardless of why you're up late at night, if you go out to eat, the only restaurants open an 2 in the morning are Taco Bell and Denny's.
Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
The two are probably correlated because they indicate a certain type of lifestyle. If you are so busy that you dont have enough time to get a full night's sleep, you probably also don't have time to prepare healthy meals or exercise properly. They are probably eating out more, snacking more, and excercising less. Put them together, and yeah, the people that get less sleep are probably going to be fatter.
... they have to spend all that time in the middle of the night cleaning leftovers out of the fridge.
I have both narcolepsy and sleep apnea, and, thank God, have good genetic material in the weight department otherwise I'd be house-sized by now. Most people with apnea, however, are large. Lots of time and money has been spent trying to figure out the chicken-egg issue.
:) Also, I've noticed, as have many others on narcolepsy message boards, that there seems to be a correlation between having narcolepsy and wanting sweet foods. My doctor thinks it might just be the conditioning I mentioned above, but in other, more scientific studies, there are links between the chemicals that regulate sleep and appetite in the brain.
As an American, I was taught that if you need some energy, you should eat a candy bar, have some chips, etc. All the commercials told me so.
At any rate, I wish the people who ran studies like the article is based on actually read about sleep, sleep disorders, etc. before stating an already known correlation yet again.
It makes sense that people who get insufficient sleep will tend to be overweight. When a person is tired their body sends signals that it needs more energy which leads them to eat. In addition, when a person is tired, they tend to make poor decisions and/or go for the "quick energy" solution (400 calorie candy bar instead of 100 calorie piece of fruit, for example).
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
Rick: This is almost as ridiculous as your sleeping diet.
Dex: That time I lost 30 pounds.
Rick: You also lost your job.
Anyone remember the study from last year that showed people who slept more hours lived shorter lives than those who slept less? Yeah, I ignored it too, just like this one. Sleep less, get fat; sleep more, lose years in your life!
Other studies provide evidence that there is a link between les sleep and increased calorie intake. I remember reading a summary of a couple of studies to this effect in the NYTimes. It was in the NYTimes Health section on 14 Dec 2004 (available now only through their archive $ervice). Google gave the the following from this site. It appears to be a similar writeup.
No author is given for the article.
Another factor causing the sleep less, eat more syndrome are external factors such a small children. Being worken randomly during the night tends to make one feel that they have been through a blender the following morning (though you do get used to it). Thia causes the body to seek out coffee, sugar and other yummy things, all without the brain having any invovement.
You don't need a lab to make mud.
How did lack of sleep force you to eat foods that were fast and easy to prepare or eat high fat foods?
:(
I never became fat until I went to university and had to fend for myself. Up until that point I was literally dragged everywhere by my parents, who thought I was just a lazy kid. I can remember several times in my early youth when I would be dreaming in class with my eyes open, and I can also remember being numb from pins and needles while in gym class. Oh and I'd get dizzy alot too. All these are signs of a lack of energy, and all were overlooked, because at the time, doctors were not looking for OSA in children -- it was dubbed the fat man's disorder, because fat men were diagnosed with it. Doctors were looking for people who got fat and got apnea because they got fat -- they weren't looking at people who might get fat because they have apnea.
Today, doctors are still in the dark. My own doctor looked at me strangely when I explained that I became fat from being tired all the time. Nobody can understand how someone could be too tired to cook a meal for themselves, or get off their ass to do something physical. It's very painful to be tired all the time. Even now... I'm still tired.
The sleep lab said 2000 times per night, I would wake from apnea when I was diagnosed. Now that number likely grew from the slow deterioration from years of having untreated OSA. But to put it in perspective -- That's four times per minute. And that's a low average compared to some folks who are more like 20 times per minute. To try and understand this... simply have someone wake your ass out of bed at 4am ONCE with a blowhorn... they run in and shout crazy crap at you and then they leave. That's some of the fear and loathing associated with apnea. You might see how someone doing the blowhorn trick 2000 times a night would be at risk of being murdered outright by even the most angelical person.
It's truly a horrible thing, but it's life and I'm living a higher quality of it since I've been on CPAP. But not much higher. Realistically... I'd say that for 25% of the day I have 100% more energy and the rest of the day decreases on a curve until at 3pm I'm dead tired and juicing on coffee. But my job keeps me up too...
So to clarify; my parents would cook, but I would eat candy whenever I could get it. Steal it... borrow it and beg for it. I'd drink a load of juice too growing up. I'd get whatever I could to get energy. Drugs, alcohol... anything.
Now it's easier. I can nap from time to time during the day because I work as a programmer. And that seriously helps. Everyone with OSA should be able by law to have a nap ANYTIME. (well not while they are driving, but you get the point)
I'm fat and i have trouble sleeping.. although it could be related to my being fat (i might have sleep apnea.. but i dont have insurance and my social anxiety keeps me away from doctors so i cant get it diagnosed)
although i started dieting back in sept and ive lost like 60lbs, im still obese and havent reached the point where my weight is less than the capacity limit of my scale (thats why i say i lost "like" 60lbs, cant be sure as its not accurate)
once i get thin then i'll see if i sleep better
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topic on slashdot? what kind of news for nerds is that meant to be? some of us cannot afford going to bed @ 10 pm! i have to finance my studies with 2 jobs and am meant to save some time for studying too.... sleep is for the rich and for the kids, i wish i could just sleep a little longer (and in peace) one or two times a month! ... ./ topic for me anyway!
...live long and prosper ;D
but that's definetely no
keep going dont give up... and
That there is a correlation between getting enough exercise and being of normal weight is well known. Isn't there also a correlation between being getting enough exercise and sleeping well? Wouldn't these two correlations explain the observed results? "Get more exercise then you'll both lose weight and sleep better" seems more likely to me to be causal relationships, than "try and sleep better and then you'll lose weight".
What's damnable is I know I should eat less. But habits are hard to break. I know and feel I should eat less, but damn, after 21 my metabolism slowed, and I keep eatting at the level I did when I was 16-18. Sometimes, my stomach is too full, or I eat when I'm not hungry.
"Clean your plate"
"Eat your supper"
The above 2 habits are the hardest for me to break. I go out with family and eat even when I am not hungry.
I'd lose most my weight, if I'd just eat less.
One time, I managed to actually pay attention to my stomach and body. Except for some light snacks, I didn't eat for 3 days. No hunger pains, no light headedness. It struck me how artifical the 3 meals a day was.
Your body can take care of itself. It's learning to listen inspite of learned 'norms' that is the problem.
if you're awake, you can eat.
-knowles
Stop worrying about sleeping and get your fat ass to the gym.
Get a grip you insensitive clod.
... you just sleep less because you're fat ?
All of the fad diets that actually worked over the past two or three decades have one thing in common: DON'T EAT SUGAR.
The "Eat to Win" diet of the '80s was a high carbohydrate, low protein, moderate fat diet that worked. The guy who invented it was Martina Natrilova's trainer, and it worked for her.
The Atkins diet is just the opposite, low carbohydrate, moderate fat and high protein, and it works too.
Both these diets work as long as the dieter actually follows them.
The one thing they have in common is DON'T EAT SUGAR. Don't drink sugary caffeinated beverages. Don't eat ice cream. Don't eat candy bars. Don't eat donuts.
The really bad thing is that eating sugar makes you hungry.
It's not rocket science, but it's harder than Hell to give up sweets if you have a sweet tooth.
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
Consider that people who get less sleep may do so because they have poor impulse control or general lack of self-control. In my case, I don't go to bed when I should because an interesting program is on TV, or I want to watch x movie or code X project. This problem of mine correlates directly to my lack of willpower when it comes to how much food I eat. I'm willing to bet pure self-control is the link between the two, speaking as someone who has none ;-)
I'm not fat, I'm differently-waistlined!
And I'm bucking the trend by sleeping a LOT...
Mammalian sleep habits have been extensibly studied and show that the larger the animal, the less it sleeps. Elephants sleep a few scant hours a day while smaller mammals sleep more, such as the domesticated cat which sleeps in excess of 18 hours a day. Some links: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?chan ID=sa003&articleID=00042C19-D5B3-11B4-95B383414B7F 0000
http://www.sleephomepages.org/sleepsyllabus/fr-b.h tml
A waste of time and money - I'm living proof it won't. :)
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
This is spooky - yesterday after two nights with very little sleep I was pondering the fact that I seem to eat more when I haven't slept enough, and wondering whether any studies had been done. I've also noticed that music sounds better when I haven't slept enough - anyone know of any studies on that?
You get your damaged cells repaired, your brain gets into weird activity (although with Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging, see http://www.fmrib.ox.ac.uk/fmri_intro/ we may soon discover it to be not so bizarre, but this should go into another topic) and a couple other nice things go on. For once, you may enjoy verrry nice dreams! And even encourage them! Is "lucid dreaming" still famous?
And what about what goes before and sometimes after sleep? Specially if in good company...
But enough veering off topic... (though it's been long since I posted and it's difficult...) Something interesting about the article is the fact it's so vague as to be totally worthless: what happens at the extremes, when people start sleeping too little or too much?
(but of course, I cannot think there is such a thing as too much sleep!)
Enoc
Umm... on the physical discomfort bit: My mother mentioned once that when you're dehydrated you tend to mistake the need for water for a need for food and act accordingly. Also, I've noticed that when I'm dehydrated I sleep less as I feel like I need to drink more fluids. Maybe obesity isnt caused by a lack of sleep, but actually a lack of water? Maybe I should drink more water so that I'm not such an enormous fat ass. There's gotta be some ancient subconscious reaction in The Foraging Creature which requires you to get out of bed and drink water.
In a side note, have you ever noticed how few water fountains there are in the world, and how many soda machines there are? Notice how so few of those take plastic or bills larger than a dollar? Maybe we just need to replace the soda and snack machines with free water vending machines. That might solve a lot of the country's issues.
SRSLY.
I would suspicion that thyroid function might come into play.
People with higher metabolisms (and tend to weigh less) might need extra sleep.
I only sleep a couple of hours per night and I'm a beanstalk.
Maybe I'm the exception to "the rule."
As for napping: many many people could benefit from that. Unfortunately most western and in particular anglo societies frown upon it. Some people (myself included) can take a 15-20 minute nap and be really really refreshed. Some people can't though :( Any longer than that for those who can and we're just making up for sleep deprevation, which shouldn't be done a work.
Totally true! I think that people who have apnea should all be trained as programmers and given nice remote jobs so they can work at home and sleep whenever they want. I do, and I am very productive. I feel very sorry for folks with physical labour jobs who have apnea... they have it real bad, IMHO.
As for the sleep lab... it's really easy and fun, IMHO. I was so tired it didn't matter... I just wanted the miracle cure, which still hasn't come along. Maybe some scientists will get smart eh?
Some people drink lots of caffeine. Caffeine tends to keep you awake, and it also raises blood cortisol levels. Elevated cortisol is strongly linked with weight gain. Thus, the two conditions "less sleep" and "weight gain" might both stem from a third factor, namely, excessive intake of caffeine.
When I stopped drinking caffeine last year my weight plummeted. I started again in the winter, and my weight is increasing again.
Suggestion for the new slashdot poll:
"My Body Mass Index (BMI) is:
0-15
15-18
18-20
20-25
25-30
30-35
cowboy neal
For the record, I am a fatso with a BMI of 31.
evanchik.net
This makes more sense to me..
Sleeping less does not cause weight gain.....overweight people burn less energy than they eat and thus dont need to sleep as much
Fat people generally do less exercise and burn less energy than thin people.
Thus their body requires less sleep in the same way that older people require less sleep.
obese patients are more likely to experience sleep apnea, which can decrease quality and length of sleep considerably. I find the obesity/sleep apnea link easy to credit for the sleep/BMI link. Here's the first google result I got, there are many many more.
Could this have something to do with growth hormone? It contributes to muscle growth and the hormone is mostly released while you're asleep. If your muscles don't grow those calories will go into fat.
I've noticed that people/animals with faster metabolisms need to sleep more. I don't know if you've looked into this or not. Although all of my evidence is purely anecdotal, I've found that myself who is rail thin, can eat whatever I want, and am in my mid-twenties - sleeps all the time. I've found the same to be true of other individuals I know who are thin, who I would say has a fast metabolism. Additionally my pet dog, sleeps about 14 hours a day and has a very fast metabolism as well.
I am willing to bet that most people who are involved in car accidents would be found to have eaten breakfast that very same morning.
Let's all cut out breakfast and live.
You cannot conclude that more sleep makes you thinner until you actually do that experiment. This only shows a relationship between the two. Maybe there's a "sleepy-thin" gene in there somewhere that we need to activate on the fat people. Personally, I'm a "sleepy-thin" guy. I have to sleep a lot, and I'm really thin. I'd trade needing a little less sleep for being a little fatter.
Coupled with atkins we now have that the best way to lose weight is to eat alot of fatty foods, and sleep as much as posible.
Really now, who wouldnt be tempted go on a diet like that? Especially since people that self conscious already have enough problems with temptation.
The post says they sleep 1.8 hours less a week. A week. Thats .25 hours a day or around 15 minutes. All they found out is that fat people sleep 15 minutes less a day than thin people. I hardly think this suggests that fat people need less sleep than thin people because they do less.
NJ Local Music Scene
... scientists found that obesity tends to induce sleeplessness
I'm lucky if I get more than 5 hours of sleep.
I weigh 140, and that's up from 130 earlier this year..... (5'11")
BMI is worthless. It is weight/height. It doesn't tell you anything about bodyfat.
Somone with a high BMI can be very lean while somone with a low BMI can be fat. High BMI != overweight.
For example, if someone is 180 lbs but only 10 lbs of that is fat it is likely they could get a good job being on the cover of fitness magazines.
However, if someone else was the same height and weight, but got 50 lbs of that weight from fat they would really overweight.
Summary: BMI is a really stupid number. Any study based on BMI is stupid by association.
What this causes-
Too much caffeine intake (which causes lack of sleep)
Too many input calories (that's what the snack vendor is for, high energy fixes)
Lots of stress (which may or may not contribute to a issue)
Someone want to put me on a /. diet to research this? I've picked up 25 lbs over the last month (40 in the last 3 I've been working this contract)
There seem to be a lot of skinny insomniacs out there! I've met quite a few of them.
Does that make any sense? Shouldn't we all be just huge blobs?
Maybe I should start a club!
You'd have to be able to list 6 regularly occurring infomercials, know one of them of by heart. And be able to give a fairly accurate TV program outline for between 2:30am and 5:00am
Any takers?!
Maybe this way being awake all night wouldn't be so boring!
Too much food makes you fat.
Moreover, if you accrue 1.8 hours over 7 days that's 25 mins/day of lost sleep - which is not significant.
I tend to stay awake till 4cor 5 in the morning.And i sleep no less than 8-10 hours a day.I have been a night owl for almost 3 years now.Any suggestions for coming back to a normal schedule?
And i sleep like a baby sometimes managing 11-12 hours.Apart from that i have trouble getting out of bed early in the morning even if i have had enough sleep.
Wanted : A Signature.
I'm glad that I don't have sleep apnea or that I'm not diagnosed anyway. I'd rather not have such an easy excuse.
You'll notice in some (or possibly one) of my recent posts I have indicated that I graduated from college, while still not being diagnosed with OSA. I am a very productive member of society, and I don't make excuses for myself. I simply wanted to provide insight as to the cause and effect of obesity and sleep apnea, as this was directly related to the article. I am saying, that obesity is a symptom of being sleep deprived -- not a cause of being sleep deprived.
Sorry if that's a little harsh, but sometimes you just gotta eat a damn salad and work out for a while, no matter how you feel.
This just proves you know nothing about what you're talking about. Doctors can't possibly understand obese people with apnea, because they are too busy putting them down to understand the truth.
The truth is: eating salads while having apnea will get you killed faster than eating McDonald's. Why? Because salads have no energy. They take generally *more* energy to digest than they provide, which is why people lose weight eating salads. But when you are driving in a car with apnea, and you had a bad night sleep, you had better stop and get something with a little extra substance, or you're dead -- and you'll take a family of five with you. Now I'd love to stop for a nice well rounded meal, but there aren't any low-cost meals available that are healty ( and forget what Jared says... those sandwiches have no energy to offer me, IMHO). The simple truth is that I require more fatty rich foods for the immediate energy boost it provides.
Like I'm not saying I stop at McDonald's every day. I don't. But I drink a lot of coffee, and I eat food that is easy and fast to prepare. I don't have the energy to make a healthy meal more than once a day. I'm 32 years old too.
People with apnea have to weigh quality of life against length of life. Sadly I'll have a shorter life than someone without apnea.
So while you think what you're saying is correct -- it's very narrow minded and apparently quite shallow.
So if you don't want to be a jerk, simply get an alarm clock that will allow multiple wakeup times. See if you can find one with 2000 slots, and set them four minutes apart. Put the alarm on semi-low so it doesn't wake you up completely, but it keeps you from having REM. Now try sleeping like this for a week and measure your food responses. Look at what you need to survive your daily life. You'll find that everything I'm saying is 100% correct.
If you want to see what CPAP is like, set the new super-alarm for about 250 times a night. You'll notice an improvement after 2000 times a night, that you'll feel better. But you'll still be waking up 250 times a night, so you'll still be very tired the next day... just not quite as tired/irritable.
you need to privatize the water industry, and place cocacola in a water-monopoly position(*shudder*) through government grants, and then make water access mandatory in all buildings larger than a given size. Bonus if you put provigil or something in the water.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
This solution works wonders:
Put two 500MHz+ PCs into a 6'x8' room. Close the door and live and sleep in that room without snack food and minimal drink during the day, leaving only for 3 meals a day and restroom breaks. The 90+ degree Farenheit heat will cause you to sweat up a storm. You will smell nasty but look great! The ladies will all be up ons.
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I'm no scientist in the field but as someone said, less sleep means more time for eating. But not only that, isn't it true that people with sleeping disorders usually have someting underlying causing it, like depression? Depression can be a cause for over eating. I'm just fishing here, but saying less sleep make you fat seems quite generic.
While I didn't read the article (I'm a legit /.'er after all right?), I would have to wonder if the growth hormone released during deep sleep is cut short if you don't sleep long enough.
Growth hormone has many benefits, but one of them of course being the ability to shed bodyfat.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
I suppose these people regenerate less seritonin and therefor have a higher carbo/protein appetite.
old news.
Lets all jump on the "bullet solution" bandwagon. Did it ever occur to the morans that are setting up the experiments, that maybe fat people are fat because they EAT TOO DAMN MUCH!?
My dad survived on the least sleep of anyone I've ever known, and he was in great condition. However, he was a karate instructor, and therefore got regular exercise - something most fatties don't get.
I myself get a mere 4 - 6 hours of sleep on a regular basis (im 21) and I'm still about 20 lbs underweight.
Let's just cut the bullshit, and have a study on how to make people clones of celebrities.
You're nothing; like me.
people who are obese do not sleep well.
I worked at the Medical College of Ohio (Toledo) in the Sleep Disorders Center for 5 years to finance my undergraduate college education, which is in Biochemistry, so I know enough to explain exactly what is really happening with sleep deprivation and obesity.
For whatever reasons people start to gain weight, eating poorly such as McDonalds, Burger King, etc... you start to gain weight from foods that are rich in calories, but poor in nutrition. The average fast food meal, a hamberger, fries, and soft drink exceed the adult daily caloric intake requirements. So what happens next? One starts to gain weight because of life style, metabolic syndrome, and metabolics in general (lack of exercise, etc...). When these people start gaining a few pounds/kg of weight from week to week and they go to sleep, the have episodes of hypopnea (Google/Wikipedia is your friend) which lead to brief periods of cesation of breathing (respiration) and the oxygen saturation (this is important) decreases in the blood. Why? The inceased weight of the fat in the abdominal cavity presses against the diaphragm, so it's more difficult from a brain-muscular effort to take in air So? Well, this arouses one from sleep and the cycle continues... Remember, I said that oxygen saturation decreased slightly in the blood - happens several to hundreds to thousands of times in the night. As a result of decreased oxygen saturation in the blood, the person does not get restful sleep because they wake from sleep after each hypopnic episode (verified by electroencephalogram, oxygen saturation measurements, and electromyograms). Since the calories from the days meal (and previous days/weeks/months/years) meals don't get burned due to lack of execise/cardiovascular workout/respiratory intake, weight increases, and the hypopnic episodes turn in to obstructive sleep apnea with increased fat deposits in the abdominal cavity and other areas of the body (throat, face, hands, legs, arms, feet). With the obstructive sleep apneas, oxygen saturations decrease significantly in the blood stream, thereby decreasing the metabolism of the obese individual. Sustained low oxygen intake combined with high caloric intake results in foods not being properly metabolized throughout the day, and weight increases very rapidly leading to a very unhealthy downward spiral to obesity. Sadly, this cycle continues until the patient gains hundreds of pounds/kg, causing severe cardiovascular, and mental stresses that can lead to automobile accidents, job (productivity) losses, marital/relationships stresses, and ultimately death.
The immediate solution: decrease caloric intake, get on a CPAP/BiPAP, get excerise, and eat nitritionally dense foods with low calories. STAY AWAY FROM SUGARS as these will be converted to fat stores if not used. DON'T EAT HIGH FAT FOODS - they will lead to arterioschlerosis.
Score 5: Informative
is an actual proverb in French ( Qui dort dîne ).
This is...
O
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Feel free to email me for tips with your CPAP machine. Make sure you have a high quality mask. Are you using a face mask or a nasal one?
Anyway, shoot me an email if you want to discuss you're situation and get some support.
Have they considered the possibility that people who are less active don't need to sleep longer and that active people need to sleep more to recover for the next day of activity?
Studies these days never seem to want to account for such obvious things (in my opinion).
Commuting, and McDonalds? He who commutes a long drive, ends up eating meals on the way to or from. These meals oft end up being the kind served in drive thru. The same cohort sleeps less because they spend all those hours at work, and in the car. This is assuming that they've factored in the age problems, old people are fat, and sleep less. In your twenties you can live on a handful of hours a night and stay fit and thin all at the same time.
Sleeping less means more time available for eating!
Having watched my husbnd put on significant amount of weight from side effects over the recent years as he was put on one medication after another for a condition that has been misdiagnosed as bi-polar disorder (bring on the lithium) and then epilepsy (yah epillium) before finally being identified as severe apnea (less than 4% of sleep time being deep sleep and only 63% oxygen intake) I would have to say comments like that are dangerous simplifactions of extremely difficult problems.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
I recall a study report that said "men who shave more tend to have sex more", implying, I guess, that women prefer a shaved man...?
In actual fact what was happening was increased sex => increased hormone levels => increased hair growth => increased need to shave. Amazing what you see when you look at something from another angle, huh?!
something about lies, damn lies, and statistics
People who don't have time to get enough sleep probably don't have time to exercise, either.
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." --Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)
For my particular case, I was told that surgery would not likely help me. I have a very long neck, as a result of being a really skinny kid. That neck would kink like a hose when I was young and it got worse. To keep a hose from kinking, you have to cut the hose and shrink the length -- but that's not really a solution for me. The other problem is that I'm very alergic to dust. There is nothing they can do about the dust allergy except to insist I spend $40/month CAD on over the counter allergy pills.
:-)
Thank you for the post about the Dr. Sears books. I'll have a look at them.
blame it on sleep-deprivation, and not gluttony you pigs
Of course they sleep less - they keep getting up to raid the fridge!
My comments were directed more at the study and its weaknesses not on the causes of sleep disorders. If you will notice, I said "At any rate, there were some serious problems with this study in terms of proper controls, including analysis of sleep disordered breathing (causing sleeplessness) that may in of itself be due to pre existing obesity.
I ran a sleep lab for almost four years before going into basic science research and have seen my share of common sleep apnea and difficult to diagnose sleep disorders from parasomnias to nocturnal epilepsies. I do not take these conditions lightly nor do I believe they are "simple" problems. Thus my commentary on the "simple" study finding a causative link between total sleep time and obesity.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
BMI was invented a long time ago. I believe mostly to help in analysing severely starved people. Any good modern work mentioning BMI always has a provision stating that it is NOT applicable to people who are extremely muscular. The reason BMI was used in the past, is that there was no good way to estimate fat content of the body. With all the methods available today, there is no excuse for doctors to continue misusing BMI as some indicator of body composition.
I would probably make a quick trip to a non-extradition country.. but that might just be me. Can always get some satellite internet down there, since would have $100 million.....
That's fascinating but we know that there are different stages of sleep like REM (Rapid Eye movement), etc. So I presume that these different stages have different effects on the body's metabolism leading to obesity or not. However, we are tuned to our habits too and that could be a factor to our cycle of sleep too. So don't you think the result of the experiment is a bit confusing?!
Fat people sleep less because they get less sex... you know... that activity you do in bed?
Who am I kidding here. This is slashdot...
eTrade SUCKS
Hmmm....
Lack of sleep will make you feel lethargic the next day and you might compensate by eating calorie- and sugar-laden junk food, which might perk you up temporarily but later you will crash.
But then, overeating, especially late at night, will cause you to sleep badly, as will lack of exercise.
It's a vicious cycle for an overweight person, but really it could happen to anyone. I suspect it's more dependent on eating and exercise habits, and not every person with poor eating and exercise habits is overweight.
Does anyone else use TV to put you to sleep? I can't sleep without it now, and it's OK as long as I remember to set the timer, but if I forget and it runs all night it will wake me up and then I have a hard time getting back to sleep. I use TV to numb my brain, to stop the endless cycle of analysis I engage in! I'm a programmer.
So, if i gain a lot of weight I wont have to sleep as much?
Men slept an average of 27 minutes less than women...In general the fatter subjects slept about 1.8 hours a week less than those with normal weights.
Did NO ONE catch the fact that 1.8 hours a week is roughly a difference of 15-16 minutes a night? that's right, theres a bigger difference between sleep cycles between men and women than between "fatter subjects" and "normal individulas". They even mention in the article that a 20 minute difference is the maximum correlation between body mass index and sleep time.
I think that increased weight causes one to sleep less. With more weight on your frame, you toss and turn more. Also, obesity can be correlated to sleep apnea, which can be a dangerous condition. It becomes a vicious cycle, as you become a walking zombie during the day, relying on more and more caffeine and sugar to function. The caffeine stays i your system, keeping you awake at night longer.
Maybe seriously overweight people don't sleep well? Maybe they don't breath as well, or can't get comfortable.
Although this study shows a correlation and not a causal realtionship, I just wanted to point out that people who suffer from anorexia nervosa often find that they can't sleep (even though exhausted).
The common thinking on this is that when the body is hungry (and too thin) it will keep itself awake to "search for food."
I wonder how this might relate (if at all) . . . .
Read Power Sleep by Dr. Maas. All students who took his PSYCH101 class know that the more you sleep the healthier you are (and the lighter you are) because it's only in deep sleep that your body can release the appropriate hormones that gauge how over/underweight you are and adjust accordingly. Undergraduates are some of the most sleep-deprived members of society (especially at his school, Cornell) and are operating at suboptimal levels for months on end! So when you get out of school, SLEEP! I'm getting 9 hours per night and loving it.
It's strange that I didn't see lately any study about the correlation between obesity and the amount of food eaten.
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
We caution that this study does not establish a cause-and-effect relationship between restricted sleep and obesity
And yet the whole point of the article seems to be to dangle sleep in front of the readers like another weight loss carrot on a stick.
Many computer geeks lack fashion sense and neglect basic hygiene, but dressing dorky and showering twice a month won't help you write better code. Same principle applies until somebody does a controlled study measuring sleep changes and weight changes.
How about drink more coffee, less likely to suffer from Parkinson's or sleep less, live longer? This is just a few cursory findings on the surface, I'm sure you could find more.
Linux at home
After looking at this discussion, it looks like there's several of us on /. with sleep disorders. (I myself recently started CPAP therapy.) It may be nice to have a forum where we can share what works, what doesn't, and what to expect.
To this end, I've created the Sleepgeek mailing list. Subscribe by visiting http://mail.piquan.org/mailman/listinfo/sleepgeek, or a "subscribe" email to sleepgeek-request at (my-user-name) dot org. For the spam-conscious, posting rights and the list roster are only available to list members.
dolo666, you've offered to have private email discussions with several people on this thread. Feel free to send them this info, since they may not read this thread again. Of course, anybody should feel free to invite others to the list.
I sleep 10 hours a day, and am obese, this study is biased.
I think the article makes it clear that sleep can be used as a substitute for dieting.
I, for one, am going to make the most of this new diet plan by sleeping for 23.5 hours a day without changing a thing about my diet. I'll be thin in no time!
If this doesn't work, I'll increase the number of hours per day I sleep by one hour increments until I find the magic amount of sleep I have to get per day to become thin. Of course, I can't just keep increasing forever. Obviously I'll have to cap my maximum daily sleep time to forty hours.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I sleep less than most people I know and weigh less (>200lbs) than probably 95% of them. I am alos not that athletic well I walk to school and the fridg thats about it. Maybe its just the obese people sleep less???
I have OSA. Same story - skinny long and narrow neck. Then after 35 yrs of age, OSA, overweight and insulin resitance crept up on me. I hate CPAP. Im a very light sleeper, wake easily and so the noise and the forced air make me lose more sleep than the apnea itself. Id avoided it for many years, ignoring the apnea. Big mistake.
Last year I hiked at high altitudes and generally was on the move when I vacationed. During and for a few weeks after, I lost weight, ate very well and healthy, didnt need sugary junk, and no snoring/apnea. No stress.
Then back to my IT job, and all the symptoms are back again. I know what I need to do now. Throw away the CPAP, cut down on my contracting hours, and literally Run for life!!
There is a theory that the bloodstream can not supply enough energy to a functioning brain. So the brain runs partially on stored energy, and must sleep to allow more energy to be stored. So it is a basic physiological requirement which is hard for evolution to alter.
Things which deliver more energy to the brain might reduce the need for sleep. Things which improve the brain's energy storage ability might also reduce the need for sleep. If such things also tend to increase weight then the reported correlation may result.
The glial cells are suspected to be involved. Searching for "sleep glial" finds assorted information.
I do listen to my body. I sleep when I'm tired, I eat when I'm hungry.
My body has never WANTED to exercise, screams bloody murder while I'm doing it, and cramps immensely afterwards.
Is there something WRONG with me?
My non-scientific opinion:
If you are fat you will sleep less.
The major control on sleeping is not light but food intake.
So when you try to stay up you eat more food than you need to stay awake. You find it hard to sleep on an empty stomach so you end up sleeping on a full stomach; bad.
A blog I run for the wealth
Luckily I'm not overweight however for many years I've eaten more when I sleep little, and slept longer when I eat little.
When restless I may have 4 or 5 main meals a day and 3 to 5 hrs sleep. When poor as a student I might eat far too little but sleep 12+ hrs. Both give you enough energy to carry on - but obviously you cannot survive on one alone.
I still balance food and sleep in this way - quite possibly doing by health harm?
The more time you spend sleeping, the less time you spend eating (unless you're some kind of sleep-eater or something), hence weigh less. I must be a sleep-eater or something then I think...
Virginia Medical School now to undertake a study to find out how being wet can cause rain.
"Let me have men about me that are fat, / Sleek-headed men, and such as sleep a-nights. / Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look. / He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous"
Julius Caesar Act 1, Scene 2.
I was a pizza delivery guy a couple years back. During this time i would eat the most amazing amount of food, something like 2 large bowls of cereal, a pizza, 2 burger meals upgraded, and a lot of snacks and fizzy drinks every day. i almost constantly ate, and never exercised, except for work, which wasn't strenuous at all. I slept about 10-12 hours a day. i wasn't skinny, but i wasn't medically overweight either. i was something like 195cm/85kg, consistently for at least a year.
today i rarely drink, never eat fast food, and sleep about 8 hours a day. i have to exercise to keep in shape. make of this info what you will, i just find it interesting that sleeping patterns could explain this.
The all to common insult of lazy fat B**** and perhaps its just what's needed to banish the last bastion of discrimination; Fatism.
It's still socially acceptable to discriminate/insult/ belittle over weight people, even in those politically correct circles where, sexism, racism or disability discrimination would an appalling faux pas or social gaff.
It's the timing of your dinner that makes you fat.
The solution is: don't eat after eight o'clock.
Don't know about anyone else, but when I exercise and see the resultant better sleep, it means I don't have to sleep as long to be refreshed, because I sleep more deeply. So more exercise == less sleep + lost weight, at least in my case.
Love justice; desire mercy.
Yes, you are right, sugar is a carbohydrate, but in normal everyday usage when the word carbohydrate is used, complex carbohydrates are implied.
Nobody says "simple carbohydrates." They say "sugar."
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
But I was refering to water you get from your tap. Kudos for putting 2 and 2 together though. :)
Of course, perhaps the tap is merely being outdated, and every home will have a vending machine in it at some point, who knows.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I believe that would be Central Sleep Apnea. A good source of information on sleep disorders can be found at the following website.
http://www.sleepnet.com/sleepapnea.html
...people who got veggies during their schooldays are found to have stronger bones.
the study just doesnt make any point. there could be gazillions of reasons attributed as to why one gets fat. both body chemistry as well as our food habits have different effects on different people.
Moderators: Please note that "bonch" is a known fanatical psycophant whose obnoxious offtopic rants are legend here on Slashdot. It doesn't matter what the topic is, he'll find a way to scrape in some pointless Microsoft shilling. While nobody expects us to love Microsoft in any way, his particularly tepid style of calling anyone he replies to "troll" or "liar" because he happens to disagree with whatever they're saying is well documented and should not be rewarded. If anything, bonch is the type of person that should not be part of the open source/free software community. He is an anathema to all that is good about free software.
/. subscriber, I invite you to look through some of his posting history. I guarantee that you'll be hard pressed to find someone that is more "out there" than bonch. You'll also probably notice he's got quite an AC following. Don't just read his posts, make sure you go through the replies.
I'm posting this so that you (the moderator) have some context to consider bonch and not mod him up whenever he posts his filler preformatted rants about installing Windows or whatever that unfortunately get him karma every single time and allow him to continue posting his trademark toxic crap (read on) day in and day out. You may consider this a troll - I consider it community service. And I ain't kidding.
If you're a
For example, in this recent post bonch not only calls the OP a troll but attempts to "tell it like it is" while making some vague argument about "MS". Yes, if you're confused, you're not alone. The reply (modded +0) proceeds to simply destroy his bogus argument. You will notice he did not reply. This is what some people call "drive-by advocacy". A sort of I'll just leave you with my thoughts here and move on to the next flamebait kind of deal. In fact, he almost never replies because he knows that his fanatical arguments simply do not hold up to any sort of discussion. It's not that he's chosen the wrong cause - he's just going at it in a completely wrong way.
More? Just read though this post and the subsequent replies. I guess this stands on its own.
More? Bad spelling in astounding conspiracy theories, more offtopic FUD and uninformed "I'm right, look at me" rants, promptly proven wrong. Worse even, bonch wants to be Bill Gates, apparently (that first one is a winner). I mean, really. You think?
FUD, FUD, FUD, FUD, offtopic FUD, and more FUD. This guy is like the Monty Python SPAM skit, but with FUD and more FUD instead of canned meat. Amazed yet? Don't forget that KDE and Gnome make you dumb, and it's all a Slashdot conspiracy. How low do you want to go? Maybe as low as this?
The infamous Slashdot Front Page Troll? Nuclear fireballs? It goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on (troll?). Like the energizer bunny. Or take these two, which stretch the definition of weird.
It's up to you. We can get rid of this guy and make Slashdot a better place. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the trolls and crapflooders over people like "bonch" any day. And I sure as hell don't want to be categorized along with him. This is not how you advocate free software, period.