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The fact that this ignorant racist troll got modded "Interesting" is an indication of the level of white supremacist denial-based hypno-propaganda present in slashdot today.



"Western culture may not be perfect, but one real advantage it has over traditional subcontinental culture is that it has dispensed with this particular anachronism"


Yes, and replaced it with ideologies of race-war and discrimination based on skin-color and religion. Like here:


http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/Hurricane_katrin a.htm
http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/Whi te_Supremacy/weltner_relief_scam_9805.htm?LEARN_Ca t=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_the_News
http://www.asianmediawatch.net/starandbucwild/


Not to mention the fact that Indians in the intellectual classes, at least, generally don't subscribe to caste notions, but Gentile Europeans and Americans in the intellectual classes do so all the time. Using pseodo-scolarship to advance racist agendas, such as here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2 45571
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Anti_Semitism_Glob al/20051118-NYSun.htm
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4726_13.htm


A particularly relevant example is David Duke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke). A Klansman whom the Americans have elected into office.

After all this, they make fun of a system that they clain is beyond their comprehension, but use themselves on a daily basis in their societies.

Are Americans born hypocrites or do they have to study?







"You are born into your caste. All your descendants will be of the same caste"

Again, you might want to read a bit before jumping to such false generalizations (unless you already know that this is false and are using a deliberate campaign of disinformation to advance a racist agenda, which is more likely since you, obviously, are a racist).


It is possible to change a person's caste if he or she has demonstrated the ability to engage in the activities for which a particular caste is suited. There is ample precedent for thi, such as the first Maratha Emperor Chhatrapati Shivaji Bhonsle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji) who wasn't born a Ksatriya, but was elevated to that caste because of his accomplishments and obtaining freedom for the Maratha people from the clutches of radical Islamic oppression.

Within a particular caste (varna), clans (jaat) have constantly been in a state of flux. The jaats have a fine structure of priviledges that keep changing from generation to generation in order to accomodate for changing economies and political climate. This is unlike the dogmatic narrow feudal systems of Europe, where Catholics and Protestants are constantly at each other's throats and only unite under one religious flag when it comes to pogroms against Jews.

The defamation of Indian society is nothing new. White powers have been doing it since the middle of the 19th century. The post above is merely a crude descendant of the mendacious lies spread by the British Defamers like Rudyard Kipling and German proto- Nazis like Max Mueller and Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



"US Declaration of Independence ('all men are created equal')"

The fact that this ignorant racist troll got modded "Interesting" is an indication of the level of white supremacist denial-based hypno-propaganda present in slashdot today.



"Western culture may not be perfect, but one real advantage it has over traditional subcontinental culture is that it has dispensed with this particular anachronism"


Yes, and replaced it with ideologies of race-war and discrimination based on skin-color and religion. Like here:


http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/Hurricane_katrin a.htm
http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/Whi te_Supremacy/weltner_relief_scam_9805.htm?LEARN_Ca t=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_the_News
http://www.asianmediawatch.net/starandbucwild/


Not to mention the fact that Indians in the intellectual classes, at least, generally don't subscribe to caste notions, but Gentile Europeans and Americans in the intellectual classes do so all the time. Using pseodo-scolarship to advance racist agendas, such as here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2 45571
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Anti_Semitism_Glob al/20051118-NYSun.htm
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4726_13.htm


A particularly relevant example is David Duke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke). A Klansman whom the Americans have elected into office.

After all this, they make fun of a system that they clain is beyond their comprehension, but use themselves on a daily basis in their societies.

Are Americans born hypocrites or do they have to study?







"You are born into your caste. All your descendants will be of the same caste"

Again, you might want to read a bit before jumping to such false generalizations (unless you already know that this is false and are using a deliberate campaign of disinformation to advance a racist agenda, which is more likely since you, obviously, are a racist).


It is possible to change a person's caste if he or she has demonstrated the ability to engage in the activities for which a particular caste is suited. There is ample precedent for thi, such as the first Maratha Emperor Chhatrapati Shivaji Bhonsle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji) who wasn't born a Ksatriya, but was elevated to that caste because of his accomplishments and obtaining freedom for the Maratha people from the clutches of radical Islamic oppression.

Within a particular caste (varna), clans (jaat) have constantly been in a state of flux. The jaats have a fine structure of priviledges that keep changing from generation to generation in order to accomodate for changing economies and political climate. This is unlike the dogmatic narrow feudal systems of Europe, where Catholics and Protestants are constantly at each other's throats and only unite under one religious flag when it comes to pogroms against Jews.

The defamation of Indian society is nothing new. White powers have been doing it since the middle of the 19th century. The post above is merely a crude descendant of the mendacious lies spread by the British Defamers like Rudyard Kipling and German proto- Nazis like Max Mueller and Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



"US Declaration of Independence ('all men are created equal')"

The fact that this ignorant racist troll got modded "Interesting" is an indication of the level of white supremacist denial-based hypno-propaganda present in slashdot today.



"Western culture may not be perfect, but one real advantage it has over traditional subcontinental culture is that it has dispensed with this particular anachronism"


Yes, and replaced it with ideologies of race-war and discrimination based on skin-color and religion. Like here:


http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/Hurricane_katrin a.htm
http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/Whi te_Supremacy/weltner_relief_scam_9805.htm?LEARN_Ca t=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_the_News
http://www.asianmediawatch.net/starandbucwild/


Not to mention the fact that Indians in the intellectual classes, at least, generally don't subscribe to caste notions, but Gentile Europeans and Americans in the intellectual classes do so all the time. Using pseodo-scolarship to advance racist agendas, such as here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2 45571
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Anti_Semitism_Glob al/20051118-NYSun.htm
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4726_13.htm


A particularly relevant example is David Duke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke). A Klansman whom the Americans have elected into office.

After all this, they make fun of a system that they clain is beyond their comprehension, but use themselves on a daily basis in their societies.

Are Americans born hypocrites or do they have to study?







"You are born into your caste. All your descendants will be of the same caste"

Again, you might want to read a bit before jumping to such false generalizations (unless you already know that this is false and are using a deliberate campaign of disinformation to advance a racist agenda, which is more likely since you, obviously, are a racist).


It is possible to change a person's caste if he or she has demonstrated the ability to engage in the activities for which a particular caste is suited. There is ample precedent for thi, such as the first Maratha Emperor Chhatrapati Shivaji Bhonsle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji) who wasn't born a Ksatriya, but was elevated to that caste because of his accomplishments and obtaining freedom for the Maratha people from the clutches of radical Islamic oppression.

Within a particular caste (varna), clans (jaat) have constantly been in a state of flux. The jaats have a fine structure of priviledges that keep changing from generation to generation in order to accomodate for changing economies and political climate. This is unlike the dogmatic narrow feudal systems of Europe, where Catholics and Protestants are constantly at each other's throats and only unite under one religious flag when it comes to pogroms against Jews.

The defamation of Indian society is nothing new. White powers have been doing it since the middle of the 19th century. The post above is merely a crude descendant of the mendacious lies spread by the British Defamers like Rudyard Kipling and German proto- Nazis like Max Mueller and Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



"US Declaration of Independence ('all men are created equal')"

The fact that this ignorant racist troll got modded "Interesting" is an indication of the level of white supremacist denial-based hypno-propaganda present in slashdot today.



"Western culture may not be perfect, but one real advantage it has over traditional subcontinental culture is that it has dispensed with this particular anachronism"


Yes, and replaced it with ideologies of race-war and discrimination based on skin-color and religion. Like here:


http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/Hurricane_katrin a.htm
http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/Whi te_Supremacy/weltner_relief_scam_9805.htm?LEARN_Ca t=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_the_News
http://www.asianmediawatch.net/starandbucwild/


Not to mention the fact that Indians in the intellectual classes, at least, generally don't subscribe to caste notions, but Gentile Europeans and Americans in the intellectual classes do so all the time. Using pseodo-scolarship to advance racist agendas, such as here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2 45571
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Anti_Semitism_Glob al/20051118-NYSun.htm
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4726_13.htm


A particularly relevant example is David Duke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke). A Klansman whom the Americans have elected into office.

After all this, they make fun of a system that they clain is beyond their comprehension, but use themselves on a daily basis in their societies.

Are Americans born hypocrites or do they have to study?







"You are born into your caste. All your descendants will be of the same caste"

Again, you might want to read a bit before jumping to such false generalizations (unless you already know that this is false and are using a deliberate campaign of disinformation to advance a racist agenda, which is more likely since you, obviously, are a racist).


It is possible to change a person's caste if he or she has demonstrated the ability to engage in the activities for which a particular caste is suited. There is ample precedent for thi, such as the first Maratha Emperor Chhatrapati Shivaji Bhonsle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji) who wasn't born a Ksatriya, but was elevated to that caste because of his accomplishments and obtaining freedom for the Maratha people from the clutches of radical Islamic oppression.

Within a particular caste (varna), clans (jaat) have constantly been in a state of flux. The jaats have a fine structure of priviledges that keep changing from generation to generation in order to accomodate for changing economies and political climate. This is unlike the dogmatic narrow feudal systems of Europe, where Catholics and Protestants are constantly at each other's throats and only unite under one religious flag when it comes to pogroms against Jews.

The defamation of Indian society is nothing new. White powers have been doing it since the middle of the 19th century. The post above is merely a crude descendant of the mendacious lies spread by the British Defamers like Rudyard Kipling and German proto- Nazis like Max Mueller and Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche



"US Declaration of Independence ('all men are created equal')"

"the U.S. population has a pretty open Christian community that respects a lot of views."


Like this?

and this?

and this?

and this?

and this?

and this?


Please, save your propaganda for people who are retarded enough to buy it.

"the U.S. population has a pretty open Christian community that respects a lot of views."


Like this?

and this?

and this?

and this?

and this?

and this?


Please, save your propaganda for people who are retarded enough to buy it.

"It almost appears to me that the hand of gods [sic] is reaching down to smite the Southern Babylon."

"I'm of the opinion that Mother Nature would be doing everybody a favor by cleansing the inner city."

"It would be great if all the Whites could be evacuated and they could leave the groids/muds behind but we know that won't happen. The best we can hope for is that the best architecture stands and the casualties keep the n----r funeral homes busy."

"Let us bow our heads and pray together that half the jig population of New Orleans stayed behind to do some lootin' and this one finishes them all off. And Lord, let's hope all the faggots in the French Quarters stay as well."

"Mother Nature is a bitch and I don't have a problem with that at all. Especially when it leads to the possible culling of species detrimental to my race and country."

I could go on and on. Interesting article on the (post-Katrina) rasism here

Of course, feel free to stick your fingers in your ears and chant "la la la" while you live in the delusion that racial equality is present in the USA. The prison populations say otherwise and poverty & crime go hand in hand. How are blacks supposed to inprove their standard of living when those interviewing them a often racist hicks?

Obviously I struck a chord pointing out this racism, down to -1 flamebait withing 30 minutes of posting...truth hurts, doesn't it? Don't even get me started on how you view other countries; the hate is even more venonmous.

This is why:


http://www.adl.org/PresRele/DiRaB_41/4786_41.htm

The sad thing is to see people like you resorting to ad-hominems when you can't get your point across in an intelligently. You attack intelligence itelf by cloaking yourself in some sort of religious frenzy and believe that you can convert people into your idealogy. Well, it may have worked when you had armies on your side and an infrastructure based on slavery and oppression, but it doesn't work anymore. Even if you put one of your redneck guns to my head, or nail me to a cross and burn me alive as you do, you will only convince yourself, not me, because I know the greater truth which is based on observation and fact, not on words written by people I don't know and who haven't supported them with data.

The part that's dangerous is the 'new religious mania', where the fanatics use what apparently seems 'enlightened' ,'reasonable' and/or 'scientific' to implicitly further an agenda of hate. Your hate is obvious from your content and tone, and your disdain for logic and reason does not interest me. I know that people like you seem to use sense and reason but in reality have a hidden agenda of defamation and bigotry.

Here are some links for YOU to meet people who do what you do:

http://home.ddc.net/ygg/welcome.htm
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2 25709
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2 27012
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1 82050
http://www.agentofchaos.invisionzone.com/index.php ?showtopic=558
http://www.agentofchaos.invisionzone.com/index.php ?showtopic=1372
http://www.agentofchaos.invisionzone.com/index.php ?showtopic=240


All based on arguments that seem reasonable and, to the superficial eye, based on fact. However, a truly thinking mind realizes them for the hate propaganda they are.


These folks can expose you better than I can:

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Christian_Identity .asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in _America&xpicked=4&item=Christian_ID

According to the ADL:

"In Germany... it is illegal to promote Nazi ideology. In many European countries [France, for one], it is illegal to deny the reality of the Holocaust."

Similarly, Mein Kampf cannot be sold in the Netherlands, and there seem to be some restrictions on its sale in Germany.

I understand the desire to prevent a resurgence of Nazism, but it seems like a dangerous precedent to outlaw historical claims, however absurd. And banning books is something you'd think Germany in particular would be wary about.

Nazism aside, there's Poland, where "[a]s of 2005, people are sometimes convicted... for insults to religious feeling", and the Republic of Ireland, where "the constitution explicitly requires that the publication of 'blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter' be a criminal offence."
"Blasphemous matter"? Anyway, that's what Wikipedia turns up on the subject.

The U.S. has an embarrassing history when it comes to obcenity laws, but we do have stronger protection for political speech than most (if not all) of Europe.

Don't be an ignorant racist pratt!

Terrorists bombed London, the Islamic community does not consider those people as "Muslim".

• Moderate Muslims Split on Suicide Bombings
• "Israeli society was completely military in its make-up and did not include any civilians. Men and women are soldiers. They are all occupying soldiers..."; "Fighting American civilians in Iraq is a duty for all Muslims... Americans in Iraq are all fighters and invaders. There is no difference between a civilian and a military American in Iraq." - Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi: In His Own Words

extreme example: suppose someone got a tatoo of a swastika on their forehead. Don't you think you could make some assumptions about this person? i.e. if they are not outright bigots, then they must be sociopaths to get such a socially unacceptable symbol in a prominent place? Does that person have the right to complain when she doesn't get hired by http://www.adl.org/?

There are two things you can assume about someone when you see their tatoos:

1) They are amenable to the concept of body art.

2) What they painted on their body is likely important to them.

There are numerous corrollaries, but the important thing to remember is that tatoos and piercings often make others uncomfortable. Their feeling of uncomfortability is just as valid as your feeling of indignation, but you haven't given them the choice to not be uncomfortable (by not having a piercing/tatoo). On the other hand, you did have a choice to get the tatoo/piercing in the first place. (Once having it, you both have the choice to not interract with each other, but that is an equal choice.. Unless you argue they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against interracting with you, in which case, the interractee has no choice whatsoever and the body-art-foistee has all the choice.

You know, I'm as atheistic and completely non-religious as the next slashdotter, but it's attitudes like this that help destroy any hope of rational discourse between the two sides of this argument.

I am a Christian however I have a very different perspective on this than you

Get back to me when mainstream American christians applaud murder in their god's name.

The term mainstream is meaningless in this context. The Taliban never were a majority in Afghanistan and radical Christian conservatives never have been a majority here, but at this moment they are a very influential group. That said, here's a radical Christian who has sympathy for murder in God's name

Seriously, if you're going to compare religious people to the Taliban, you might as well go all the way and compare them to Nazis so we can invoke Godwin's law on your ass.. ;)

It's never easy to tell when something passes from just a disturbing mania to ouright lunacy. Like you, I generally don't find the activities between current Christian conservatives in the US and the radical theocrats of other nations equivalent, but the parallels are becoming disturbing.

You might be interested in what some of your fellow Midwesterners (Kansans) are notorious for perpetrating, following the lethal beating of Matthew Shepherd elsewhere in the Midwest. And you might be interested in finding out for yourself how you haven't heard about all that, though it resonates so closely with your local culture, and is certainly compelling news.

Actually, the constitutionality of hate speech seems to change every few decades. 50 years ago hate-speech was not deemed protected, but recently it was protected
http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/constitutionality.a sp

But it looks like it may have been upheld if the state had worded its statute differently.

The Supreme Court disagreed and struck down the statute. The Court held that because Minnesota had not in fact criminalized all fighting words, the statute isolated certain words based on their content or viewpoint and therefore violated the First Amendment.

So it's hard to tell how it would play out in Texas assuming that the censorship went beyond porn to speech.

It wasn't religious fundamentalists who protested Mel Gibson's film before they saw it.

Well... in my youth I had quite a weakness for scale model planes, so I personally respect the drive to approach authenticity, although I admit that my interest was more the noisier stuff you see at airshows, like the Sukhoi SU-30 or the MiG-29 Fulcrum. Russian accent on PA system calmly announcing 'Cobra' ... beautiful. Excuse my nostalgia. *cough*

With respect to the actual topic, though, the German legislation (and the French, the Italian and the Hungarian) was not designed to target modellers. This is, if you'll pardon the expression, collateral damage. It was probably designed to remove the Nazi 'brand' as far from the political and literal marketplace as possible (I say probably because, frankly, I wasn't there). The number of neo-nazi variants on the swastika at least suggest that the neo-nazis would be keeping the brand alive if it were possible, implying that it retains its symbolism and thus that there's some value in it for them. Which is a pretty good reason to keep them and it apart as far as possible, ratty little buggers that they are.

I'm happy to hear the general EU ban didn't go through. As the great Doctor Johnson probably didn't actually say, it would be like fitting wheels to a tomato - time consuming and completely unnecessary.

Is this the same Nextel who once showed a fine grasp of taste by running an ad campaign called "The Final Solution" featuring a Hitler impersonator promising to "exterminate all dues"?

More on this here

Namely, in Germany it's against the law to be part of certain neo-nazi ideologies and holocaust denial

The Kurds are a large displaced and repressed culture. Turkey is using NATO weapons in a war on it's own citizens because of their race.

Holocaust denail et al, is more akin to telling lies, that are known to be lies without doubt, and furthermore, these lies seriously offend an ethnic group.

Zundel, a holocaust denialist, was charged and convicted of "knowingly publishing false news", on this very issue...

in the true land of the free...

Canada

http://www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/prescott.htm

The Anti-Defamation League in the US is supportive of Prescott Bush and the Bush family. In a statement last year they said that "rumours about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated ... Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser."

Ah yes, better race relations... That's a good one to bring up.

Especially all the warm fuzzies that France and Germany have towards the Jewish and African immigrants. Really the only difference (race relation-wise) between the 1930s and now is that the scope of the hatred has widened, there's no central figure like Hitler to get it really organized, and France is joining in on the fun. BTW, the better educated just seem to be throwing rhetoric rather than rocks. Can't let all that learning go to waste.

And let me head you off at the pass. No, you don't have Klansmen burning churches in the middle of the night like we have had. You have skinheads burning immigrant ghettos in the middle of night.

"Notice the Democratic party cast a hell of alot of no votes on the bill. Also note that there were members of the Democratic party serving them that had been in the KKK. I'm not saying the Republican party is squeaky clean either, just saying they take most of the blame when they really shouldn't be."

Your a little confused friend, you are supporting my case not refuting it. Those are mostly the segregationist Southern Democrats voting against it. They and their white constituents are the ones who jumped to the Republican party as fallout of the civil rights act and swung the South from the D column to the R column. The Republican's welcomed them with open arms and they are still a critical part of their power base.

If you will recall why Trent Lott was removed as Senate majority leader it was because he made the mistake of openly praising a segregationist Democrat, Strom Thurmond for running on a segregationist ticket after Truman desegregated the army, and doing it when a video camera was running. Here read this.
It been something of an open secret that Southern Republican luminaries Trent Lott, Halley Barbour, Bob Barr in particular have ties to the Council of Conservative Citizens a descendent of Thurmond's white supremecists.

I'm sure that Junior is also bound by some issues such that it is not represented at Abu Dhabi.

You may be sure, I am not so sure. I don't mean to head off into troll territory, but you are saying that I'm making the mistaken assumption that all Arab nations are anti-Jewish, etc. I didn't say that, and I know that Jordan and Egypt have peace treaties with Israel, and that certain countries like Morocco and Turkey have more cordial relations with Israel.

I'm sure that you are mistaken about Junior being bound by an issue that kept it out of Abu Dhabi, I'm sure that the Israelis would be happy to go there for friendly competition. As for the treatment of Jews by the UAE establishment, you can search the web for Jews and Abu Dhabi, and find stuff like this portrayal of PM Sharon drinking Arab blood on a popular show from Abu Dhabi TV.

I agree that the UAE is relatively cosmopolitan, but that says more about the rest of the Arab world than it says about them being cosmopolitan or permississive of the west in any familiar sense.

I do maintain that the UAE is part of the Arab community that avoids any interaction with Israel, and that's why their battle of the supercomputers does not involve the current champion.

Huh? Amazing you call it? You mean historical anti-semitism of Europe never existed? How about expelling Jews from Spain in 1492? Ghettos in medieval Italy? Limitations in Russia in 17-19 centuries. Dreifuss affair in France?

The point is, the hatred toward Jews has been imprinted into heads of generations of Europeans and it obviously cannot disappear all of a sudden.

... the Holocaust was just a climax of those centuries-long practices. Europeans (most of them, not all of them, fortunately) were just to happy to assist to Hitler.

What happens today -- deligitimatization of the Jewish state, denial of Jews the right to defence themselves against brutal terror -- is just continuation of Holocaust. And a cynic one, I have to add, while modern anti-semites disguise themselves as "just" anti-Zionists, they have chutzpa to Israelis to Nazis.3.asp

• "We were very disturbed by Scott Simon's question to interviewee Richard Ben Cramer (June 12, 2004 "Weekend Edition"): "is there still a need for Israel to exist?" "
• They're unhappy about Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ.
• They're unhappy about The Financial Times publishing a letter by the Ambassador from one of the Arab League countries.
• They're unhappy about the United Nations Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. They think it's too one-sided.

This issue tends to be framed in terms of "Nazis", but the Nazis died out a long time ago. Today's issues revolve around Israel vs. its Arab neighbors, Israel vs. its Palestinian population, and US support of Israel. The ADL has a major cow whenever the anti-Israel side of those issues gets major press in the US. (Interestingly, the domestic Israeli press criticizes the government of Israel over these issues frequently, but the ADL doesn't get mad at the Jerusalem Post.)

There's a real political question as to whether continued support of Israel is in the interest of the United States. It's important to Israel's survival to divert serious poliical debate on that issue. That's the real meaning of this "anti-hate-speech" push. It's not about Nazis.

• "We were very disturbed by Scott Simon's question to interviewee Richard Ben Cramer (June 12, 2004 "Weekend Edition"): "is there still a need for Israel to exist?" "
• They're unhappy about Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ.
• They're unhappy about The Financial Times publishing a letter by the Ambassador from one of the Arab League countries.
• They're unhappy about the United Nations Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. They think it's too one-sided.

This issue tends to be framed in terms of "Nazis", but the Nazis died out a long time ago. Today's issues revolve around Israel vs. its Arab neighbors, Israel vs. its Palestinian population, and US support of Israel. The ADL has a major cow whenever the anti-Israel side of those issues gets major press in the US. (Interestingly, the domestic Israeli press criticizes the government of Israel over these issues frequently, but the ADL doesn't get mad at the Jerusalem Post.)

There's a real political question as to whether continued support of Israel is in the interest of the United States. It's important to Israel's survival to divert serious poliical debate on that issue. That's the real meaning of this "anti-hate-speech" push. It's not about Nazis.

• "We were very disturbed by Scott Simon's question to interviewee Richard Ben Cramer (June 12, 2004 "Weekend Edition"): "is there still a need for Israel to exist?" "
• They're unhappy about Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ.
• They're unhappy about The Financial Times publishing a letter by the Ambassador from one of the Arab League countries.
• They're unhappy about the United Nations Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People. They think it's too one-sided.

This issue tends to be framed in terms of "Nazis", but the Nazis died out a long time ago. Today's issues revolve around Israel vs. its Arab neighbors, Israel vs. its Palestinian population, and US support of Israel. The ADL has a major cow whenever the anti-Israel side of those issues gets major press in the US. (Interestingly, the domestic Israeli press criticizes the government of Israel over these issues frequently, but the ADL doesn't get mad at the Jerusalem Post.)

There's a real political question as to whether continued support of Israel is in the interest of the United States. It's important to Israel's survival to divert serious poliical debate on that issue. That's the real meaning of this "anti-hate-speech" push. It's not about Nazis.

"No. Vouchers take students away from schools that cannot educate and give them to schools that can."

Vouchers only work for those who have nearly enough money to afford private school, so the vouchers cover the last gap.

And those private schools only have good numbers and appear to be more effective because they are selective in their students. Plainly said: They only let the good ones in. To hell with the other students who actually need the help.

Imagine there were two baseball teams in a small town. One baseball team could choose whether to accept or reject any player who tried out, but the other baseball team had to accept every player who wanted to join and give them all time on the field. The selective team could also kick out any low performers during the season.

Who would win in a game between the two? Obviously, the selective all-star team would win; it'd also have better stats and look like a better team than the non-selective teams.

So while you may think you're being fair when comparing private schools to public schools, you have to realize that it's not a level playing field, and they don't play by the same rules.

From this site
"Private schools are allowed to discriminate on a variety of grounds. These institutions regularly reject applicants because of low achievement, discipline problems, and sometimes for no reason at all."
and
"...public schools would be left with fewer dollars to teach the poorest of the poor and other students who, for one reason or another, were not private school material."

And we all know who owns linux, don't we?

ZOG?

All of those links work, you simply need to remove the white space from the links (slashdot breaks up any continous lines)

I never said all arabs are the same [I have some arab friends] I was simply answering your assertion, based on a sample composed of the 9-11 terrorists, that there is some widespread hate of the United States in the arab world. It is a fact though, that, the Protocols are widely distributed, widely quoted, and widely believed throughout much of the Arab world. They have even been quoted on their national radio shows and what not. Comparing it to AMAZON selling the Mein Kampf, which sells many thousands of different books, is absurd. The Protocols are:

a) much more popular relatively speaking (being one of the few or the only books carried in many of these markets)

b) A proven forgery (they are supposed to be the actual plans of the Jews)

c) Not a document of direct historical relevance so it's generally NOT studied by educated people (unlike the Mein Kampf in the US)

d) Quoted repeatedly by various Arab leaders and media figures.

Background on the Protocols in the Arab World

Furthermore, the point is that, regardless of real action or inaction (on the part of the Jews in this case), it only takes a handful of people to believe it and commit violent terrorist acts. Do you really believe, for instance, that there is any reasonable policy that the US Government could have enacted to have stopped Timothy McVeigh from blowing up the Federal building in OKC? Terrorist acts are not a priori evidence of bad policy or lack of good policy. There are crazy people in this world and most of them don't have any justification for their acts.

Germany, just like the US, has faced and will continue to face terrorism, particularly Arab terrorism, no matter how much you deny it and no matter what policies of capitulation it follows. Although policy can play some role in pro-actively preventing some terrorism, it will continue no matter what. Resting your beliefs on what happened in Israel is bad comparison because the elapsement of time was short and because Israel pursues policies that have direct and very substantial impact on the Palestianians (thus they have REGULAR politically directed bombings) that they can potentialy and realistically change.

I gues I'd better state for the record right now that no way, now how am I suggesting that the artist actually holds any such nasty views. It's just that I'm a marketer, and my career teaches me to look out for such similarites, intended or not. I do think some people inthe general public might make the incorrect and unfortunate connection.

I gues I'd better state for the record right now that no way, now how am I suggesting that the artist actually holds any such nasty views. It's just that I'm a marketer, and my career teaches me to look out for such similarites, intended or not. I do think some people inthe general public might make the incorrect and unfortunate connection.

"One could imagine, for instance, contact lenses with displays and miniature computers on them, so that you can experience a virtual tour of a new city as you walk around."

Is this a reference to the this link?

Rebutted here of course.

If he ever gets a distributor for it, I'm going to see the film at least three times - no matter how good or bad it is. Just to piss off the people who want the film to fail.

Nazis like ADL and the Pope should go fuck themselves.

There was a case back in 88 that demonstrates the role of the ACLU in all its irony. If you remember that year, you probably remember Bush the First packing as many Hot Button Keywords into his presidential campaign speeches as possible. One really nasty example is that he repeatedly referred to his opponent as a "card-carrying member of the ACLU", terminology obviously meant to evoke left wing associations.

Now somewhere in the midwest (I think it was Ohio) a woman tried to put "Elect Bush" signs on her front lawn, only to be told she was violating local zoning ordinances. She placed a call to the local ACLU chapter -- and got a callback from the state chairman, who informed her that she had raised a vital free speech issue, and the state ACLU would back her and her Bush signs with everything it had!

Of course, that's not the biggest irony connected with the ACLU -- it doesn't come close to all those Nazi and White Supremicist bozos who turn to the ACLU for legal representation, which often comes in the form of Jewish or African-American lawyers! But it's all part of the same idea: that for the Constitution to work, its protections have to be extended to everybody: pedophiles, Nazis, and even people who attack the ACLU itself.

Which makes association with the ACLU pretty difficult: you have to accept that your dues are going to go to protect the legal rights of a lot of people you happen to despise.

I actually have no problem with this: I'm a Jewish American who happens to think that everybody should read The Turner Diaries. The more appalling an idea is, the more you need to bring it out in the open. Anyway, freedom of thought (including stupid thought) is the most fundamental of rights.

I do have a major issue with the ACLU. Not their rabid defense of the rights of despised minorities, but rather their assumption that litigation is the only way to do it. Lawyers do play an important role in protecting the rights of their clients. But the courts aren't always the best protector of personal liberties. As Dred Scott learned, they often give a high priority to maintaining the status quo. And even when they don't, having a social change mandated by a federal judge is no guarantee of the change actually happening. Any African American trying to find a place to live will tell you that!

This man is a religious zealot, who has tried in a number of ways to (1) inject his religious extremism into government, and (2) expand his snooping powers by any means necessary (example: TIA). Any number of links would have sufficed, but you get the point.

I feel nothing for Ashcroft, except maybe hatred.

How does this work? If it was not a country then how could it contain Jordan? What was it - a f**king continent?

This was the original delineation based on the Sykes-Picot agreement whereby France and the UK were determining what the partitioned remains of the Ottoman Empire would look like. This is European history. Surely you're aware of it, if even a dumb American like me knows about it.

This is all a rather pointless argument as Isreal was not a state 60 years ago but no-one in the west would argue that it should not exist now.

Actually Hamas makes this very argument.

However, there was British Palestine which was a defined territory in which the Palestinians lived.

Right, of which a section was used to create the state of Israel. In fact, this was inherently accepted by the then leader Palestine/Transjordan, the Emir Hussein.

Your argument is like arguing that Zimbabwe or Ghana have no right to exist as nations because they weren't proper independant countries 60 years ago.

No, it isn't. The Palestinians have 'lost' whatever land they had in Palestine either through sale (the majority of it), war (each Arab conflict with Israel has result in Israeli land gains) or fleeing under false preconceptions (that the Arab countries would fight a war and win the land back).
Israel has constantly sought to improve the lot of Palestinians, building power generation, introducing modern farming, etc.

Interesting that most Americans have the same misconceptions about Arafat - his charter includes provision for an Isreali state and he agreed to the Oslo accord that included an Isreali state.

Bull. Look at points one and two if you don't believe me. If we Americans are coming away with this notion, it's because THAT'S WHAT THE PALESTINIANS ARE SAYING.


The Isrealis then broke the Oslo accord by continuing to build settlements. Interestingly Sharon has stated on several occasions that there will never be a Palestine but I don't see you criticising him for that.

Ehud Barak tried to withdraw forces which resulted in an increase in violence. The subsequent loss of faith in the government, coupled with Arafat's refusal to agree to the partitioning of Israel/Palestine resulted in Sharon's election.
This is similar to Schroeder being re-elected on an anti-US platform and I don't see you criticizing him about that, do you?

And for an American to claim that the EU is not interested in peace in the middle East is a joke - who do you think tried to keep negotiations going between Isreal and Palestine whilst being shat on by Bush?

Well, I'll make more claims. The UK and France spent far more time figuring out how to get more out of the Middle East than in trying to create any kind of stability in the region.
Currently, Russia and France and Germany make more in arms sales than in other sales to Palestine, Syria and Iran.
Why do you think there have been over 70 resolutions condemning Israel by the UN but NO resolutions condemning Palestinian terrorism?
Do you think there might be peace of there were no violence for more than two weeks? Well, that was one of the Oslo accords and guess what, it was the Palestinians that broke it.

You know for a Euro you sure don't know shit about history. Or current events.
Maybe you get off your high horse, come to American and get an education. Eh, fucktard?

The ADL is just slandering an innocent, and seriously kickass band. The fuckers should FOAD.

And you need to take a chill pill. Granted 311 is a pretty good band. But the ADL never said that they are racists. Quite the opposite in fact.

From the ADL page:

The eleventh letter of the alphabet is the letter "K"; thus 3 times 11 equals "KKK," or Ku Klux Klan. 311 is sometimes used as a greeting to demonstrate membership in the KKK or simply sympathy with the Klan and its ideology. There is also a popular rock band with the name "311" which is not at all hate-oriented.

Symbology is a funny thing. After all, the pentagram as far as I can tell was originally a symbol used by the followers of Pythagorus (Yes, the A^2 + B^2 = C^2 guy. He also advocated a diet of beans and water, apparently, among other things.) But somewhere along the line witch-hunting christians associated it with worship of the devil and witchcraft. Nowadays there are any number of people who se the symbol for any number of reasons; some say they are witches and do not worship the devil, others say they are not either, and some believe they worship th devil.

Saying a number or symbol is used by a given group is not the same as saying it always means that. To you and I 311 means a band. To some skinhead in idaho (who probably does not know of Pythagorus) it is a symbol that has a special meaning.

The meaning of a symbol is largely in the eye of the beholder. The swastika was an ancient indo-european symbol of life until it was perverted by the nazis. Now most people associate it with hatred and death. None of this is an indictment against the ADL.

I believe "1488" is a number with White Power significance (14 = 14 Words, 88 = Heil Hitler).

But don't take my word for it, the Anti-Defamation League knows.

I wasn't changing the subject - warpup wrote a reply to you that comes from a different angle.

I'll take what you say at face value. In some ways the world you describe would be attractive. I suppose that it would be nice to be able to honestly express myself on any topic with no fear of altering my relationship with others, whether profesional or personal. But that is simply not a realistic possibility where human beings are involved. If a co-worker of mine like to talk about about the intrinisic inferiority of blacks, or about how whites were all racists, I would have a different opinion of them that would change my relationship to them. It would be less likely that I would mention them for promotion, etc. If they concealed their views it would be to their advantage, and largely people like that are aware of this. I think you are asking for Solomonic wisdom from average people.

Much of what the government funds is funded in a non-partisan way. And your point that Theo isn't being funded for a political end is well taken. But he's being funded by the department of defense, and he's openly and roundly criticizing them. From what I've heard from some friends who interacted with the National Endowment for the Arts, it's the same way there but far worse - toe the line or forget about funding. Any one of them would laugh at the notion of the NEA continuing to fund people who criticize it, if they had a choice not to continue.

I want to avoid the tangential topic of white supremicists in Congress largely because I don't think it's directly relevant. But I'm pretty sure that David Duke never served in the U.S. congress. He was in the state legislature of Louisiana for one term. Here's the Anti-Defamation League page on him. And I'm pretty sure too that it was a democrat, Robert Byrd, who chose to use the term "white nigger" twice in a television interview in 2001, saying "I'm going to use that word." Criticism from civil-rights groups was essentially non-existant, as discussed here. So maybe there's the same double-standard you dislike, but in reverse: because he's a democrat, his speech is unpunished, even though his job is a political one, and even though his opinions do not seem consistent with the America we want to live in.

Anyway, you close by saying that the DARPA action was legal, but it wasn't right. If the contract was terminated due to Theo's comments, which I think is still undemonstrated, then we agree to the first part. I think reasonable people can differ as to the rightness of an action like this, because it depends very much on what priorities we assign to different government functions. I appreciate that you've thought a lot about your views, and also your willingness to discuss them reasonably rather than in the over-inflamed manner too common on net boards.

Don't forget the ADL, a leftist organization whose whole purpose is to prevent free speech and gun ownership.

I had an intro to programming class once, one of the assignments was to demonstrate random number generation- randomly generate an x,y,and color for a pixel, then draw it.
The person sitting behind me started theirs up and it drew a perfect nazi flag, except the background was white and the circle was red, instead of the normal way

Traveling upon the public roadways is a right. Use a horse, walk, bicycle...
Driving a motor vehicle may not be.

"state govt can restrict driving on the public roads to drivers with valid current licenses, and restrict drivers to vehicles registered as having passed inspection, notwithstanding argument about a "right to travel". Hendrick v. Maryland (1915) 235 US 610"
" The plaintiff's argument that the right to operate a motor vehicle is fundamental because of its relation to the fundamental right of interstate travel ... is utterly frivolous. What is at issue here is not his right to travel interstate, but his right to operate a motor vehicle on the public highways, and we have no hesitation in holding that this is not a fundamental right. Berberian v. Petit (RI 1977) 374 A2d 791, 86 ALR3d 468"


"Minnesota Law and the Right To Drive" "Driving is a privilege, not a right, and because of this can be greatly regulated and restricted."

One of the many ways terrorists and their cells/hierarchy communicate is through the net as briefly touched on here. Even CyberCafes are probably going to be hit with new regulations from HomeLand Security and they're all pretty much landline.
It's a "War on Terrorism" and however terrorists use the net and access it, we all have to sacrifice a little right now so maybe we save lives or even end the "war" sooner, rather than later... "war" inconveniences everyone, bitching won't help. Don't get your undies all in a wad over it. The sacrifices made by our parents and grandparents during WWII was certainly at least as bad as anything we can foresee for ourselves. This too is a global war because terrorism is global. Whatever it takes is just enough, so suck it up. Besides, there's no reason most if not all the "inconvenient" new regulations can't be lifted or adjusted if and when this war ends. We have the Democrats making sure of this as much as they can before they even begin fully debating new legislation and implementing it. Republicans are onboard with that philosophy as well, for the most part. But we'll all have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

Protocols of the Elders of Zion
5 Crescents
Content Rating: RA (Racist Audiences)

Blockquoth the poster:

Interestingly, 14words.com, which seems to be just a web-hosting company, is in the following category in google directory:
Society > Issues > Race-Ethnic-Religious Relations > Hate > Hate Groups

Now it is merely a redirect to a web hosting company. But it used to be a Wotanist site, 14 Word Press. (If this site doesn't look like much, view source.) It was white supremacist at least. They called for the establishment of an exclusive White nation, to preserve "the beauty of the White Aryan woman." The "14 words" are a recently coined white supremacist slogan.

Calling white people "the devil" (Offensive, perhaps, but hardly terrorism)

Making trips to middle eastern nations (Ooooh! They're sponsors of terrorism... talk about roundabout and circumstantial)

Anti-semititic speech and publications (Yes, very bad, but certainly not terrorism -- and most of it is far more recent than the nascent days of the civil rights movement)

As a matter of fact, most of the guns in those days were shot not by African Americans, but at them (and occasionally sympathizers). Same goes for bombs: Remember those church bombings?

I'm not going to go on; your mind is obviously made up already, and it's all too clear that you ignore the truths of history when it's convenient. But hopefully I've typed enough that anyone starting to nod their head to your response will think again.

If you want more references, I recommend you read a book "Israel's Secret Wars" by Ian Black and Benny Morris. It surveys Israeli intelligence operations from the 1930s to the Ostrovsky affair and describes relations with the American intelligence community.

You'll find it in amazon.co.uk History-category.

On the net you can find a list of important dates in the history of Israel with following interesting bits:

JULY 1946 Irgun attacks King David Hotel in Jerusalem (Note: The Irgun Zvai Leumi included between 3000 and 5000 armed terrorists, and grew out of the Haganah and its Palmach branch in 1933. The Irgun was not ready to obey the Jewish Agency which sought to dilute the terror of the Haganah in order not to lose its respectability.)

SEPTEMBER 1948 Assassination of UN Mediator Count Folke Bernadotte by extremist Jews

I'm sure nobody's surprised, but historian Charles A Beard wrote that "I cannot find a single original source that gives the slightest justification for believing that [Franklin's] Prophecy is anything more than a barefaced forgery...." More details here.