Slashdot Mirror
Post-Katrina Images on Google Maps
breadiu writes " Satellite imagery of New Orleans taken on Wednesday, August 31st is now available on Google Maps. Enter 'New Orleans' in the search field at the top of the page, or drag and zoom the map to the area. A red 'Katrina' button will appear at the top right of the map, next to the existing map buttons. Older images for the area are still available too - click the "Satellite" button to switch to those."
Unfortunately, post-Katrina images for only about half the city are available.
Has anyone checked if they have updated google earth as well?? I find better detail on google earth.
and everyone and their grandma is looking at them now.
w00t
I don't believe it, we slashdotted Google...
A lot of my memories of visiting New Orleans included visiting the great cemeteries there. St Roch and St Vincent De Paul both look flooded. Obviously the living people in the city are more important, but the great landmarks still have a lot of meaning.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
You slashdotted google! =-O
is corn?
"SLASHDOT: Proudly at least 12 hours behind the rest of the world for far too many years now you come to mention it..."
I work at a retail store in California, about 40 miles from Sacramento.
The other night, I had a couple come in, claiming to be from New Orleans, showing me an ID as evidence. They looked pretty poor and in dirty clothes, and the ID was correct.
They kept barraging me with questions asking for handouts... wanted a $100 tent for free, et cetera et cetera. I gave them the number to the local red cross chapter.
Has anyone else experienced refugees from the gulf coast in their area? What in the WORLD were they doing here.. no idea heh.
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
This is one of the creepiest things that I've seen in a long time. It reminds me of the before and after pictures from New York and similar stuff from coastline around the Indian Ocean.
Maybe such high resolution pictures of the disaster region will spur people into getting the authorities to do things like pay for the renovation of land features to reduce the effects of natural disasters, rather than divert the money to other projects, leaving victims high and dry (or in this case, low and wet).
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The central parts of the city are still as before. Not much to see, move on...
Superdome - before
Superdome - after
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
This post is a week late...
too soon?
To see the amount of damage caused over such a large area. You can see where the water is draining from neighborhoods back into the river. I saw it near the Galvez st warf.
w00t
Maybe it's not a repeat, but I've known about this for several days (almost a week). Maybe I saw it on Boing Boing or even Google News.
I was looking at Google Earth like last weekend and they had the Katrina button there. Take a look at the superdome. Wow.
I see mislead people on the Internet complaining about how global warming, but last time I checked out that theory it turned out that the number of hurricanes is not 100% directly related to global warming. The other day I heard a smart scientist from a credible and well founded institute present reasonable evidence against the global warming scam by using high quality PowerPoint slides. And those mad scientist that belive that there is a connection are the same people that refuse to see all the corporate benefits of cheap oil. Especially to the Gulf Regions and the private industry. Without oil in the Gulf Regions New Orleans would have been nothing today. Oil fuels the economy in the area, most people live in a sea of opportunities, the wetlands are thriving with new ecosystems that keep growing and even black gay liberals can get a job in the Mardi Gras festival.
The Bush administration is taking a lot of heat this week from leftist journalists that refuse to see how the Presidents action is strengthening the region through increased oil prices and new fertilizers made of dead niggers. Most of the companies in the Gulf earn good money these days as the American economy keeps on moving. The President has made some tough choices in order to increase the wealth of this country. And as we all know, it works great compared to the losers in Europe. The privatization and minimization of our ineffective government is necessary if we want to keep our vibrant economy. I notice how some people keeps ranting about the decision to (de facto) include FEMA into DHS. These people are doing their country a disservice by intentionally ignoring the good intentions behind the reformation. As outlined in the Republican convention last year we know that the threat from terrorists is much more urgent than the risk of a hurricane. Centrally planed bureaucratized rescue efforts are also much less effective compared to smaller faith based organizations. While the incapable government is stumbling smaller organization such as Operation Blessing are thriving even in chaos. Additionally we can now see how the Presidents strategy of letting the market deal with the disaster is actually helping the economy and the heroic man. Many businesses will get contracts in the rebuilding process, something that will increase the economic output of the region and create new wealth. We can also see how free enterprises can exploit problems in the area and turn the into gold mines that automagically benefits the poor and huddled masses in the region. This is the famous trickle down economy at work folks.
When victims in a moment of anger express their grief about how the government handled the evacuation remember that these people had the chance to leave for several days. By looking at how New Orleans developed after the organized official evacuation we can see that many of them where either in a persistent vegetative state, to high to think rationally or they where thinking about how they could exploit the situation. These hoodlums and ragheads are destroying the city and the only thing the federal government should be involved in is putting them down for good by using the Army so small business owners can rebuild our infrastructure. Looters that break into private property for food and medicine ought to be shot with the .50. Why should the federal government waste limited resources on helping these people that contribute nothing to the Electoral College and the Economy overall? The federal government did
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
I was under the impression that Google Earth was fed by the same source as Google Maps, but after doing a lot of fly-throughs from Google Earth, I don't see anything that suggests post-Katrina images.
They're gonna kill me for the bandwidth this uses, but I managed to find a picture of Six Flags (a series of large theme parks for you non-USians, second only to Disney's stuff) after it was hit. It looks pretty disturbing to see rides halfway submerged.
Six Flags:
http://www.ecsis.net/~gregday/park.jpg
Park Map:
http://www.ecsis.net/~gregday/map.pdf
The rest of the NOAA aerial images taken from a Cessna:
http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM
But I warn you, it's very creepy.
thanks to Google maps... the Earth really is flat.... and black... and slashdotted....
Regards, Ryan McAdams
can be found at NOAA's site, at http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/KATRINA0000.HTM
The pics were just taken off the plane and thrown on a server. North isn't always up, and the pictures aren't very well labeled. You pretty much have to know what you're looking for before you can make sense of the pictures. But they are much better quality than that of maps.google.com.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
Bad troll! No cookie!
The enemies of Democracy are
Isn't it amazing that America, the country that can bomb anywhere in the world within minutes, can't get something as simple as bottled water, food and medicine to its own citizens within days ?
Is it any wonder that the poor buggers in Africa never get any help ?
"Bob" bless 'em one 'n' all.
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
The company I work for has two franchised, retail stores in the New Orleans area--one on the riverfront downtown, and another in the Metairie area, north of the main town. These satellite images have provided us with the first comfirmation of the damage, and are remarkably useful (in our case, the stores appear to be dry 48 hours after Katrina's passage). The executives were delighted to see this, and earned the IT group some nice brownie points... There is a similar link on the Denver Post site today. The images are from the same company, and for the same date and time, but are markedly different in color from the Google images. Does anybody know why?
1. The new imagery goes in one zoom stop furter than the regular imagery. A sign of things to come?
2. The new imagery doesn't have any obvious copyright notices. Did they skip this step or is there a new invisible watermark?
that there are some places people should not live? Instead of throwing billions at a problem that will occur again it might be best to treat the city as we treated people along the Miss.
Move them.
While the mess in New Orleans is bad too many people are ignoring the devastation caused in Miss. and the surrounding areas.
The port area themselves are not affected as the city proper was. We can try to improve the wetlands. We can even hopefully undo the system underwhich the sediment of the Miss is forced into the sea instead of being used to rebuild the area naturally.
The real fact is, New Orleans has always been on borrowed time. I would prefer very much to spend the money to insure that the victims forever are high and dry.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
For those interested in reading on geological hazards, check out Engineering Geology, An Environmental Approach:
0 52770X/qid=1126049667/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl 14/002-0778082-8548014?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/013
Not intended as flamebait (I contributed $100 to the Red Cross), but people just refuse to learn to move away from flood-prone areas, even after they are destroyed.
The author survived the 1972 Rapid City flood in which 237 people were killed and adopted the philosophy of never rebuilding homes in the flood plain. Rapid City learned its lesson, and only commercial and industrial buildings are allowed in the flood plain. There are also a lot of parks and public use areas on the flood plain.
Yet, the monetary amount of damage done by floods increases with time as people continue to develop flood plains and barrier islands. Folks, flood control structures fail too often to justify their cost to the country's taxpayers. It is a shame thousands died in New Orleans and we will again fail to learn our lesson.
Wow, great for you. I hadn't, its news to me, so way to jump the gun there guy.
Is there anything that lets one experience this wonderful program on OS X?
The Federal Disaster Area declaration is nearly as large as the United Kingdom. How would you go about getting everything to everyone in a few days?
Also in the US disaster preparedness and recovery are normally the venue of the States and localities. By tradition they are supposed to ask for aid. Supposedly, I cannot find the story right now, the LA Govenor asked Bush for some time before calling out the Guard. It is the State that "by tradition" orders the Guard, Bush respected that but sometimes I think traditions stink. There are 330,000 Guard members in the US currently. I would think more than a small percent could be moved provided the States will act.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Great this map servers as a good first start on outlining the rebuild and no rebuild zones. Areas that are flooded don't rebuild; areas that are dry rebuild... maybe. Of course this would assume that humans are forward thinking and rational.
I know there are those that think what about the cultural heritage or NO is the historical fabric of jazz and must be rebuilt at all costs. The question whose is going to pay those costs.
Ugh, re-read my message. I didn't intend that as a pun, please don't try to make one out of it.
"Apple Macintosh computers are not supported at this time (but we are working on it)."
So, I'd say the answer is currently no.
If you have access to a Wintel box, I'd really suggest you try it. It's extremely cool.
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
Not a troll. Truthful as can be
They were speaking a different language I didn't recognize at ALL.
Anyone who's been to the area care to elaborate? (they knew english well, too)
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
We have here the 21st-century version of an old-school newspaper scoop. (Note to hard-core slashdotizens: a scoop is the news reporters' version of "FR15T P05T!".) The company whose public databases are most rapidly updated to reflect reality can scoop its competition, drawing to itself customers who seek the latest information. (Note to non-native speakers of English: in that sentence, "latest" means "newest." Stupid, I know.) Were I a vice-president at google, I'd create a division that hired aerial photographers after any natural disaster, military attack, industrial accident, etc. solely to ensure that Google Maps stays current. (Note to readers from google.com: reply to this post if you want to hire me to implement this great idea.)
I love that Wolf Blitzer uses the same Google Earth that we can at home. On "The Situation Room", he uses it all the time. A couple of days ago, he had images on Google Earth of Biloxi and other areas of the Gulf. Maybe Google put them there for CNN before the general public?
Either way, even getting these images within a week is amazing. They weren't on Google Earth this morning for me, but since they are on Google Maps now, I'm sure they'll make it to the other soon. Very cool....
Can I take it as a given you are totally against humans living in space. Comets and depressurization happen.
Or would you consider that living in space may be worth it both for the economic opportunities and the beauty? New Orleans was built where it was because of the economic opportunities of being near the mouth of a river that's major transportation for a large chunk of America. You don't choose to build major port cities where it's safest; you by definition have to build them by the ocean. When a river's as big as the Mississippi you have to build them in the muddy delta.
So people shouldn't live where there's the economic opportunity of a port (or, likewise, of the Lagrange Points)? And all those upstream, or down the gravity well, should also do without the economic advantage of a good port?
What about the people in the New Orleans area working the Gulf oil and natural gas industries. That's dangerous. Man, we shouldn't mine asteroids either, right? Everyone can just do without the energy, or the minerals, if the alternative is someone risking their lives in an inherently dangerous place.
I really just want to know. It's hard to understand the new America, where people just shouldn't take risks -- even if those risks can serve to benefit a large part of the society and economy -- so when the risk goes bad the society, despite all the benefits its got from, in this instance New Orleans as a port and as a unique cultural incubator -- without which we wouldn't have either jazz or rock and roll, by the way -- why, let the poor fools drown. What were they thinking, living there?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
And, knowing Google, they're sure to have a port in works.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
It's made of cheese.
See, I thought it was french at first, but it was spoken with NO accent like you said.
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
You can get from point A to point B much faster now that you can just cruze in a boat over the houses, you can use many of the roofs as ramps. Weeeeee!
yes, this is insensitive! You insensitive clod!
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
To be expected. I have a buddy from Lousiana that didn't learn English until he joined the army. Imagine deep-fried southern laid over French and peppered with words that belong only to the local dialect.
This should do it http://www.flashearth.com/ although you'll have to do your searches manually.
Here are Google Maps links for two levee breaches.
1 7275,-90.121467&spn=0.002356,0.002879&t=e&hl=en
7 2056,-90.023303&spn=0.009430,0.011517&t=e&hl=en
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&ll=30.0
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&ll=29.9
Once more into the... never mind!
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
Half the city's simply underwater, except for the rooftops. I started off in a reasonably unaffected part of the city thinking "hey, the damage doesn't look as bad from up here", then I scrolled to the left a bit and, damn. It's like I'm looking at Venice, if it were flooded.
>> French spoken with zero French accent.
I never heard it explaned that way. Next time I go to France, I'm going to try that, just to piss those a-holes off.
Also in the US disaster preparedness and recovery are normally the venue of the States and localities. By tradition they are supposed to ask for aid.
They did, days before Katrina hit, Bush declared it a disaster, invoking the Stafford Act. At that point, the *National* Response Plan took effect and disaster management became federal responsibility, a "Incident of national Significance". That was 3 days *before* Katrina hit. A state of emergency was declared *before* Katrina hit. Martial law was declared shortly after. State and locals were asking for helping, the bush administration just wasn't listening.
The locals did well with what they had. New Orleans, a city of half a million people, was 80% evacuated in two days before Katrina hit, which is astounding and most of the those that were still there were given shelter from the storm.
Unfortunately, the cavalry from the feds didn't arrive in a timely fashion, despite repeated acknowledged requests for assistance.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Gah... can't... move.. damn clouds out of the way.
All the king's horses and all the king's men, could put Pete ba..ck to..ge..ther... Oh, wait, wrong story.
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
Original post missed one of the levee breaches.
And the post-hurricane pictures are in a different angle than the pre-hurricane ones.
2005-09-03 18:48:49 Katrina damage imagery added to Google Maps Guess I didn't meet the dupe quota for the day.
Type that in the search box. Note the parking lot with about 200 school buses parked in it.
Why didn't Mayor Ray Nagin mobilize those buses and get people out?
They had well over a day's worth of warning. Each bus can hold 70 people normally (more like 100 if you pack em in like they normally do in less-developed nations.) That means each trip evacuates at least 14,000 people. Figure about 2 trips to Baton Rouge, accounting for 5 hours worth of driving in the evacuation traffic to Baton Rouge (normally a 2-hour drive), and of course almost zero traffic going back IN, plus loading/unloading time. There's at least 28,000 people saved using just the buses from that one depot, way more if you pack the buses tight.
Problems finding drivers? Yell out "Who here has a driver's license? You! Get in the driver's seat, and we'll meet you in Baton Rouge."
They could have at least gotten out the people who weren't capable of walking to St. John or St. Charles Parish (see my posting history for a LONG thread about that...)
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Are there any Google images of the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool.
Or are the Google images 'sanitized' like most of the MSM coverage?
resigned
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHA!
If you happen to have a copy of Google Earth Plus (which uses pre-Katrina satellite photos), I suggest running it and searching for New Orleans, then open up a browser tab or window and compare it with the new Google maps of the city. The before and after images are a sobering contrast.
There are overlays available. And instead of asking, why didn't you go to the Google Earth web site and find out for yourself? Then you could have told the rest of us.
The City of New Orleans had its chance. They let 200 school buses sit idle while people died in their homes.
The State of Louisiana had its chance. They called up the National Guard after the fact, knowing it takes at least 48 hours to gather a unit together and issue equipment under the best of circumstances, and knowing that after the storm hit would be far from the best circumstances. For those who don't know, the states' National Guards, apart from those units called up to be federalized for foreign military action, are under the command of the Governors of the several States, not the President of the United States.
Sure, FEMA fucked up. Bush fucked up. But that's not the end of the story. The City of New Orleans fucked up. Orleans Parish fucked up. Jefferson Parish fucked up. The state of Louisiana fucked up. The level of ineptitude we've seen surrounding this disaster is astounding. No one body is capable of reaching that plateau of incompetence. It takes the federal, state, and local governments, working in dissonance. In short, it takes teamwork to fuck things up to this degree.
Local and state governments are pointing fingers at the federal government for failure to fund levee reinforcement and gutting of FEMA -- and the federal government will of course be pointing fingers at the local/state governments for having no clear plan for short-term evacuation, rescue, and aid. And they'll both be right. But the voting public will see only the most visible elements, like Aaron Broussard crying on Meet the Press and Geraldo Rivera crying on Fox News.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&ll=29.94 7944,-90.089538&spn=0.003020,0.002874&t=e&hl=en
http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/storms/katrina/24429365.jp g
Anyone who flees can be considered a refugee.
A freeway leading out of New Orleans
For better overview and more options, don't forget Google Earth:
Damage assement, see it at a glance
NOAA overlays updated as new info comes in.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
These are some of the 2,000 buses in NOLA. These are school buses:
9 9158,-90.037782&spn=0.004197,0.006589&t=e&hl=en
8 8486,-90.046263&spn=0.004198,0.006589&t=e&hl=en
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&ll=29.9
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&ll=29.9
Which leands to an interesting question: why not learn from venice, keep the city flooded, and build concrete and stone structures, one on the other, always staying above the waterline?
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Thanks for the link. I found higher-res shots of the levee breaches:
Breach 1
Breach 2
Breach 3
Someone else linked to the Superdome, I believe; I also found the convention center (I think).
(Warning: images are very large.)
I can see my house! Oh, bugger...
Unfortunately neither of them show my house. It's in a black area on Google Maps and it is squarely under a cloud in the linked site.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
These google images, and even the noaa.gov ones posted below, were taken a considerable amount of time AFTER the storm hit. These images show most of the area to the west of the city as high and dry, although if you look carefully enough, a little muddy. I was a few miles west of the city throughout the storm (in fact am still here atm) and right after the storm hit, you couldn't see ANY streets around where I am.
1 6137,-90.166147&spn=0.008984,0.014473&t=e&hl=en view was more like a lake and the only canals around here were the streets in residential neighborhoods. The floodwater lingered here for a day or two before they manages to get the pumps turned on. (The necessary pump operators were allegedly evacuated across the lake to the north of us.) I expect that the google (etc) pics were taken when _(insert the party that you hold personally responsible here) _ figured out that there was a serious, serious natural disaster going on down here and sent helicopters/planes/satellites to take some pictures.
The well-defined canal in this http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&ll=30.0
There are very real fears that many of those who have been evacuated from New Orleans may be carrying Hepatitis A. A quarter of those affected may not show symptons. Anyone involved with housing or giving work to evacuees should help them to get themselves tested.
"Our interests are to see if we can't scale it up to something more exciting," he said.
http://media.putfile.com/OlbermannSwings
From the opinion piece:
that happens during a normal heavy rain/flood ;)
they just take the coffins and bury them again lol
Nothing to see here, move along....
Well if that is your outlook:
p roves.php
http://www.swingstateproject.com/2005/08/katrina_
and shameful self promotion:
http://www.mintruth.com/blog/index.php?p=315
I think there is totally a case to be made that FEMA, once the worst agency in the federal government, and then corrected to be one of the best, had no plan, did nothing and continues to be a wedge between real humanitarian outreach and people who need it. Regardless of the local response the Congress and the President failed to fund projects that could have prevented or mitigated the disaster we now see. If the American government can't afford a feat of that size then I question our decision to go to war. Which, the National Guard was sent, by the Pentagon, to Iraq with their equipment. There is no doubt in my mind that if the state had those troops they could quell the violence and bring people out by the truckloads.
If the levees were funded we wouldn't even be this interested. The general American public would donate, but not on the scale that people are giving today. Now Halliburton defaults to running the rebuilding project because of the Superfund that got them into Iraq. I say that these new levees and public works projects should be built by temporary corporations formed for and disbanded after the project. That is how we built things in the past, and we no doubt have the people willing and some out of work.
This devestation has a great opportunity for the American people to come together now and rebuild all of the areas affected. I say give to Habitat for Humanity before you give to the Red Cross. Employ people who aren't already, from all over the country, and teach them those skills. Everyone in every industry could get down there and do work, and possibly build a city that is ahead of it's time (of course without changing their nature).
The federal government needs to respond by putting the rebuilding effort on a volunteer for pay basis. Organize the entire effort and get people on the ground. Even the efforts to pump the water, get people who have idle time to work. It's a great economic booster. It would go down in history, Bush should sign on. His name will be on the History Channel in 30 years for two reasons.
Get your Unix fortune now!
How about.... "Don't live below sea level!!!"
The refugees that were parasites in NOLA will just stay in Portland. Hire more police. You will need them.
"As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move.(...)"
1 8337.shtml
" Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the fucking freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food and water.(...)"
http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_
"Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
need i say more?
2. The new imagery doesn't have any obvious copyright notices. Did they skip this step or is there a new invisible watermark?
Because the images were taken by NOAA and are freely available on the National Weather Service Website, I think the images are in the public domain. In fact, from the same website where the original (and higher resolution) images can be found, I dug up this disclaimer:
The information on government servers are in the public domain, unless specifically annotated otherwise, and may be used freely by the public...
While that is taking place, physical and mental health experts need to do a thorough check on the displaced population and provide the absolute level-best treatment where treatment is required. This, to me, also falls into the category of saving lives.
ALSO while that is taking place, economists, sociologists and any other relevent experts need to be running impact forecasts to find the absolute best way to place the displaced population to minimize stress on both those displaced AND those whose areas are being moved into.
ALSO while that is taking place, politicians need to beef up funding for those States people are moving into, so that social programs can accomodate the extra population. (This will involve more than just shifting funds around, as these people will need MORE per person than those who are already settled. This means a serious cash injection.)
They should also give a cash injection comparable to the expected economic impact. For example, it is doubtful many of these people escaped with functioning cars. Existing mass transit systems (where they exist) are on the edge of economic collapse and won't be able to handle the extra demand without support. It would be logical, therefore, for the Federal Government to provide money specifically for putting every available tram, bus and train in service (and to require that States actually do that, rather than divert the funds to pet projects).
Finally, the Federal Government should be looking to fund an emergency R&D program for the decontamination effort. And they should be doing so now. Nobody has ever had to decontaminate an area comparable to the entire British Isles. Most decontamination efforts are crude - the soil is simply replaced - which won't work on that scale and certainly won't work on land that is built on. There is no existing technique for handling a combined biological and chemical hazard that will work, so a new technique will have to be devised. That won't happen overnight, so if anyone plans on starting decontamination work this side of 2100, they'd best start funding a program to figure out how to do so.
If all of that was being done, there would be next to zero crisis. People would know that something was being done, that what was being done was deliberate and competent, and that the necessary resources would be there when needed.
If even one or two of these things were being done, it would likely be massively reassuring.
The truth is that NONE of it is being done. There will be extra burdens on everyone, but no extra resources to deal with them. There will be no serious decontamination work, so I fully expect serious health problems for those who move back. Everyone (other than the rich) will suffer for absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
This would seem to apply on the second. And given the autonomy of States, it is arguable that the first could apply.
have a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion
Almost 100% of the displaced evacuees (including the forced evacuees) are black. Almost 100% of the evacuees who voluntarily left and have money, resources, vehicles, etc, are white. I don't know if the fear amongst blacks was "well-founded" but it was certainly damn-near universal and definitely based on race. I'd argue that there's a case for this one, too.
are unable or unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution
The length of time before FEMA acted at all was astonishing and even now it is blocking many badly-needed doctors and medical supplies from entering affected areas. When predominantly white areas are affected by hurricanes, FEMA is much quicker to respond. That could qualify as persecution.
Cuba has offered medical aid - substantially more medical aid than the US Government - but if the evacuees managed to gain access to that aid they would most certainly be persecuted.
I'd say, on the face of it, that the fear of persecution would be reasonable. I think that the outrage by Black organizations towards the treatment of those who survived Katrina is also evidence that the belief of persecution does also exist in fact.
Whether that is enough to qualify is unclear, but I'd give it a solid maybe.
Of course, none of this matters as the US doesn't recognize international law anyway.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
i saw this picture on yahoo news earlier in the day.
then, as i was scrolling around the map randomly, i recognized the spot when i saw it again here!
it might be helpful (or at least interesting) to be able to map photos to their location on the map somehow, kind of like this
I knew there was water near the Dome but this seems to show that the place was an island! Nice links.
Forgive the source.
b roussard.mov
http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/aaron_
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
Checkout the end of the mississippi http://maps.google.com/maps?q=New+Orleans&ll=29.13 8968,-89.306488&spn=0.548105,0.962814&t=k&hl=en
just down from Orleans, a lovely fractile.
There are four sorts of people in the world: fools, lunatics, idiots and morons. - Umberto Eco, Foucaut's pendulum.
Got any proof of that, or are you just parroting the anti-Bush talking points?
The Feds always take two or three days to show up, and five to seven days to reach full strength. Local authorities are ALWAYS responsible for the first 72-96 hours of a disaster, that's how all the plans are made, and it's primarily because of the dithering incompetence of the local Democratic pols and the collapse of the New Orleans police department that so many people could not be rescued this time.
The military won't put people and equipment directly into the path of a hurricane, lest they become victims themselves and lose their airlift capability. But shortly after the storm passes, they pour in.
Military air, sea, and land operations began on Aug. 30, and in fact, there were more than twice as many soldiers on duty by day 5 of Katrina than on day 5 of Andrew in 1992. And that's after moving them in over a much larger area than Andrew affected. You can't wave a magic wand and move people and machines in an instant, but that seems to be what some of the ignorant anti-Bush ranters are expecting.
Unless you have invented a Star trek transporter beam, just can the ill-informed bitching and do what you can to help, OK?
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.
There's links to a few interesting places on the new images over at Google Sightseeing, including Highway 610 and Lakefront Airport.
"So, let's see. If this were something that happened to a less wealthy nation, what would have happened? In matter of some weeks, there would be some pale shadow of the amount of support that was moving into the Gulf Coast area within hours."
I'd like to point out that while last year's tsunami in the pacific ended with Canadian support taking a while to ramp up, this time around Canadian support was turned away by the US government.
I imagine that the Canadians would've been very quick to step in and help the Cubans rebuild after hurricane Dennis, the most powerful hurricane to hit Cuba since hurricane Flora in 1963. Of course, that's not really relevant, as Cuba evacuated their people (650,000) from the affected area. 16 people died in Cuba. It was a cat 5 when it hit, and its winds reached 239kph (149mph). Haiti also had about 44 deaths.
I think NO has had a great deal more death than that from what was a smaller storm, due to the non-motivation to evacuate, and the failures of the levies and dams that protected the city. Can you argue that this could not have been avoided based on this evidence?
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
You can see much better high-resolution imagery here and here (the images at Eurimage have been sharpened a bit and have better contrast). Don't forget to check out the imagery of Biloxi - which has basically gone the way of Banda Aceh.
Science fiction for grown-ups...
More concise before / after pics can be found here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/ne w-orleans-imagery.htm
Who needs terrorist when we have leaders like ours? No wonder we haven't had any terrorist activity in the US for a while. Their job is being done for them...
i\hbar\dot{\psi}=\hat{H}\psi
...unless you're including the trillions we have borrowed from other countries.. Norway, Switzerland, Qatar, Sweden all come to mind as countries that would come out better than us on most statistics
It amuses me that so many of us still use that old fallacy..
There is no reason to make a statement like "they're going to kill me for the bandwidth this uses" when we have resources like the Coral cache. If you're linking to something you fear will use a lot of bandwidth if it becomes popular, Coralize it.
Normal URL: http://example.com/big.jpg
Coralized: http://example.com.nyud.net:8090/big.jpg
Parent is 100% correct in linking to a Coralized version of the image.
I think NO has had a great deal more death than that from what was a smaller storm,
You have that backwards. Katrina had a pressure reading of 908 mb just before landfall, 902 mb while at sea. That makes it the fourth most powerful hurricane ever observed in the Atlantic, and the second most powerful hurricane to hit the US. Only Gilbert (888 mb), the 1935 labor day hurricane (892 mb), and Allen (899 mb) were stronger. Dennis only managed 930 mb and never reached category 5.
Dennis was also a small storm. Katrina was a huge storm. It had hurricane-force winds covering an area almost the size of the UK, tropical storm-force winds covered an area about the size of France. It was bigger than the entire island of Cuba.
(more like 100 if you pack em in like they normally do in less-developed nations.)"
yeah. even in this, you had to take a dig at them thirdworld countries right? no wonder you give the rest the 'arrogant american' tag.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans+transit& ll=29.967985,-90.088888&spn=0.002199,0.003720&t=e& num=10&start=0&hl=en
.. oh wait, nevermind.
Good thing nobody tried to use them for the evacuations, they'd be
I wonder where all the school busses are parked?
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
They are not evacuees, they are internally displaced persons (IDP). The only difference between a refguee and an IDP is that refugee crosses an international border. It's seems silly to categorize people who are destitute and whose homes have been destroyed, but that's international law for you
Zambozay! My brain must've been eatin' a sandwich!
Next thing, you'll be telling me that they've abandoned the whole project in favor of big announcements of 30 other new projects, all in beta too. And surely a company with such a ridicously overvalued stock would never engage in that kind of behavior.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
"No one can say they didn't see it coming"
... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."
In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.
By Sidney Blumenthal
Aug. 31, 2005 Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left millions of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to thousands reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.
A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.
The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a series on the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, reported online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming
The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers almost certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm surge. In 1990, a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands surrounding New Orleans. Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net loss" of wetlands, a policy launched by his father's administration and bolstered by President Clinton. But he reversed his approach in 2003, unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency then announced they could no longer protect wetlands unless they were somehow related to interstate commerce.
In response to this potential crisis, four leading environmental groups conducted a joint expert study, concluding in 2004 that without wetlands protection New Orleans could be devastated by an ordinary, much less a Category 4 or 5, hurricane. "There's no way to describe how mindless a policy that is when it comes to wetlands protection," said one of the report's authors. The chairman of the White House's Council on Environmental Quality dismissed the study as "highly questionable," and boasted, "Everybody loves what we're doing."
"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President Bush declared in June 2001. But in 2002, when the Environmental Protection Agency submitted a study on global warming to the United Nations reflecting its expert research, Bush derided it as "a report put out by a bureaucracy," and excised the climate change assessment from the agency's annual report. The next year, when the EPA issued its first comprehensive "Report on the Environment," stating, "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environ
The Feds always take two or three days to show up, and five to seven days to reach full strength
then they should have been there on monday. bush declared a state of emergency several days before the hurricane hit, essentially putting the response under the responsibility of the executive branch (namely FEMA). even if the federal response takes a few days to ratchet up, then they still should have been there sunday or at the latest monday. the storm had passed by monday morning..
as for the local politicians belonging to the 'other party', i might remind you that nagin only became a dem 2 days before the mayoral primary, because he could win more votes as a dem. until then, he was GOP all the way.
---
Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
Second, the Federal Government - by creating a Homeland Security division and moving FEMA into it - has taken on 100% of the responsibility for all disasters. You take the power, you take the responsibility. It really is that simple.
Blaming the States, when the Federal Government has taken total authority and power, is the last act of desparation by a Republican society that won't face up to its errors.
And the disaster relief (currently standing around 150 billion) is focussed on salvage, rescue and rebuilding efforts. Airlines were asked if they could help. Asked - and in a very wishy-washy way, not paid to get the hell down there and do what was needed.
In other words, the Government is spending money on projects that sound good (draining the landscape, for example), NOT on paying for the extra medical and transport needs which are less tangible and so not vote-winners.
Rebuilding the barrier islands (necessary to avoid a repeat) along with restructuring coastal development to prevent further barrier island destruction is likely to cost as much again as has already been pledged. Let me know when NIST gets a 10 billion dollar grant to discover HOW someone can decontaminate the reclaimed land.
In other words, the disaster "relief" from the Federal Government is nothing of the sort. It is a cynical manipulation of the American voter. The problem is, it'll likely work. And when New Orleans is declared unsalvagable (because the real work was never done), all Washington DC will care about is that there's one fewer Democrat stronghold.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
This post debunks part of your your claim quite nicely:4 97375/
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161298&cid=13
Yep, here in Houston you see a lot of Louisiana license plates. I have friends who are helping, and I wanted to help take sandwiches, but I would have to go through 2 hours of food-safety class (bullcrap!). Every business here is running some sort of collection for items and money. I don't know of anyone who hasn't given something. There are also people who are taking strangers in. I wanted to since I have a spare game room, but my wife didn't want any strangers.
It's not over yet, not by a long shot here in Houston. We are just beginning.
The one thing that bugs me about the talk of the busses is the "need for experienced drivers". Fuck that noise. If I have a big-ass hurricane coming at me, I will bloody well LEARN how to drive a bus in record time... and that's assuming there aren't construction workers, drillers, miners, city employees, or "people who just plain know how to drive stick" in the group of people I'm taking.
Seriously, the busses have radios if you have real grief, and even at a slow pace, if they'd taken off 12 hours before the storm hit, they could have made it to a safer place.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
I'll point out that FEMA had 500 helicopters on stand-by, precisely because the emergency had been declared, so they clearly believed they had authority. I'll also point out that this reaction came long before the State had called for help, yet not one person has yet screamed about those helicopters being there.
The reaction has NOT been about what was done (before or after the hurricane), it has been about what was NOT done. A lot was done, but according to fawlty's prediction, this is what should have caused the complaints.
What's causing complaints is doctors being prohibited from entering the affected areas, supplies being left to rot, aid from other countries being rejected - sure, we all know Cuba is out to score political points, but are we so eager to deny him that we'd let our own people die from entirely preventable causes first?
The levees not getting rebuilt is another cause of complaint, and it's not partisan either. Those levees are many decades overdue for an overhaul, and both Democrats and Republicans have failed to ensure the maintenance took place. ALL presidents, in the past 50 years, deserve a severe reprimand and those still living should be forced to perform community service for those disposessed by the tragedy. Without exception.
I am not "for" a particular affiliation, I am "for" humanity getting the best deal it can. It seems clear to me that it isn't and that immunities are being used by politicians to avoid any consequences for hurt and suffering. Fine, I'll accept that they're needed, but damnit, this is one situation in which they should be lifted far enough that those in - or who have been in - power are seen to be disciplined for their inactions.
99.9999% of the time, immunities exist to prevent rivalries, partisanship and paranoia from immobilizing Congress. 0.000099999% of the time, it is effective at allowing people to stay on focus and not get side-tracked by frivolous lawsuits. This is the 0.000000001% of the time, where tens of thousands may have been killed and quarter of a million (or more) have been made homeless and jobless, where immunity means nobody need be held responsible.
President Bush is going to be heading the inquiry into what went wrong. My guess is he'll also pick those on the investigation team. You seriously thing that the results will reflect badly on him? No matter what the truth may be?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
This comment would get an underrated...
They should only allow over for 5,4 (and maybe 3) and under for -1,0 (and maybe 1).
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Qoute from GP "Ever since the 50s??? Brother, this didn't start in the 50s."
Quote from Parent "Yes, but it was then that it entered into US politics."
One more quote: "Remember the Maine!"
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.