Domain: answers.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to answers.com.
Comments · 2,034
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Re:Better Solution
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Re:Costs? - COST DOES NOT AFFECT PRICE!!
Of course and your absolutly right, except the part about selling something for pennies that cost dollars to make, noone would do this unless they are trying to liquidate their assets.
Its not used much anymore, but it used to be a common marketing ploy called a loss leader. -
Re:"minus all the Hurd parts"
http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html#advant
a ges
it exists
The Hurd is real software that works Right Now. It is not a research project or a proposal. You don't have to wait at all before you can start using and developing it.
on mach
Versions of Mach-based operating systems of this ilk were found in OSF/1, NeXTSTEP, and IBM's OS/2 for the RS/6000-based machines - all of which are no longer widely used. Other operating systems looked to migrate to this sort of system as well, including Apple's Pink, IBM's Workplace OS, and any number of others.
Apple selected OPENSTEP to be the basis for the successor of the classic Mac OS. It became the Cocoa API of Mac OS X. OPENSTEP is in fact an upgraded version of NeXTSTEP, which used Mach 2.5. As such, OPENSTEP's Mach/BSD amalgam is the basis for Apple's Mac OS X operating system.
Sorry, no Lego. -
Re:wrong
Most sources seem to indicate you're correct, though wikipedia lists the french origin also.
http://www.answers.com/third+world&r=67 -
Re:This is usefulAllright is not a word -- and be it Nonstandard, alright is still in the dictionary:
http://www.answers.com/alrightAnd I think you mean Spelling Nazi not Grammer Nazi and even if you meant Grammar Nazi, What kind of Spelling Nazi spells grammar grammer!?
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Re:$150MM?!?
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Re:$150MM?!?
I'm aware of this.
I wonder, have you ever heard of laughter it is a typical response when someone tells a joke.
Since the "$" symbol at the beginning is used to reference money, a distance, or size measurement would not be relevant in this case since it said "$150MM" with a dollar sign ($) at the beginning.
Remember, "Smile and the world smiles with you. Fart and you stand alone."
Perhaps you'd benefit from a course in comedy appreciation.[/rant] -
Re:$150MM?!?
I'm aware of this.
I wonder, have you ever heard of laughter it is a typical response when someone tells a joke.
Since the "$" symbol at the beginning is used to reference money, a distance, or size measurement would not be relevant in this case since it said "$150MM" with a dollar sign ($) at the beginning.
Remember, "Smile and the world smiles with you. Fart and you stand alone."
Perhaps you'd benefit from a course in comedy appreciation.[/rant] -
Re:Because.
Sure, the law is in print somewhere (ostensibly),
Ostensibly: On the surface: apparently, evidently, externally, ostensively, outwardly, seemingly, superficially. Idioms: on the face of it, to all appearances. See surface/depth.
I think you meant "supposedly" or "allegedly".
-Rob -
Re:Now please clean up your act
Yahoo is the cleanest, free email and instant messenger for anyone, plus news & multimedia, between the three yahoo is the best...
Google is nice but lacks an instant messenger client...
Why would you want Yet Another Instant Messenger? At least if you have a gmail account, you can still send e-mail to whomever you like. If Google creates an Instant Messenger, all your friend(s) will have to install yet another IM client.
No - we don't need another Instant Messenger. What we need is an IM standard based on an open protocol like Jabber.
Though if Google created an IM client which was in fact based on Jabber, it might give Jabber the boost it needs to slow down the spread of crappy, proprietary IM protocols like ICQ and Yahoo.
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spellHack Jandy writes "Xbitlabs is reporting that IBM chose not to persue Itanium in their next generation server lineup
Hack Jandy needs to stop trying to use words he has only heard spoken aloud. Pursue
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Re:Picture of the Kilogram PrototypeBellow link suggests that when the kilogram was devised it was based on 1 litre of Pure water. As a side note, when I bake I simply change ml to grams when weighing water (close enough for cooking).
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid= 2040&dekey=kilogram&gwp=8&curtab=2040_1 -
Well, duh...
Why not define a gram as the mass equivilant to the mass of one mole of hydrogen (the proton-electron isotope)?
...and a kilogram is just 1000 grams...
You know, Avogadro's number? It's mentioned up top in the summary. KISS -
Re:Stability?
How can that possibly be stable? Wouldn't the slightest deviation lead to the moon coming crashing down in either direction?
First google result about "Lagrange Points" :-p :
http://www.physics.montana.edu/faculty/cornish/lag range.html
The key here is that we're not talking about two static objects, but about two orbiting masses.
This leads to not one, but five Lagrange Points.
The one between the 2 masses (L1) is indeed unstable (like L2 and L3),
but L4 and L5 are both stable. That's where you'll find trojan objects.
And they are called "trojan" because of Jupiter's Trojan asteroids.
That's all folks. -
You must not have a GBA
what the fuck handheld device has only 384k of RAM?
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Things change. Deal.
OK, here it is quick, to back up Anita.
2005-8 = 1997
http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline4.html
8.5 years ago, my current 8th grade class was starting 1st Grade, and many were using PCs for the 1st time. Windows '95 was MS's "consumer" option, NT 4 was the best option available from MS. OS/2 Warp 4 and Mac OS8 were competitors. Fortunately, MS Bob had died an early death, and could be found (if at all) in dollar stores.
2005-12 = 1993
http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline3.html
Current U.S. high school seniors were entering 1st Grade, and many were using PCs for the first time. The main OS choices are Windows 3.1, Windows NT 3.1 (there were no previous versions), OS/2 V2, PC-Geos, Amiga Workbench 3, and Mac (not sure which version, sorry).
Fortunately, Lotus 1-2-3 was no longer considered as a viable option (see quote "In the single-tasking MS-DOS 1-2-3 was sometimes used as a complete environment" at http://www.answers.com/topic/lotus-1-2-3
In light of all this, it is foolish to assume that any OS that students use in school, or university, will be vaguely similar to the similarly-titled offerings available when they graduate and go into the "real world". No one can say that Win XP would be quickly intuitive to a Win 3.1 user, and yet wouldn't be much harder for an Amiga Workbench user to learn.
Therefore, it is irrelevant to claim that students will have to learn a new OS when they graduate; and I would think that encouraging students to try new things is an important part of teaching "computers"; it is in my classroom, at least
(see: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=140414&cid=117 69514 or http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=138172&cid=115 61825). -
My favorite moment from the Batt caseAs alluded to in the post, Cage's estate actually sued someone named Batt for violating the copyright on Cage's recording of dead silence (Batt had the poor judgement to give Cage partial credit for his own, much shorter "composition"). My favorite moment was when Batt asked the estate to tell him which minute he had copied out of Cage's work. It didn't help him any, of course, but it was wonderful nonetheless.
Eventually he was forced to settle for "a large sum".
It does raise the question, though, why SCO can be asked to identify which lines of code IBM infringed, while Cage's estate didn't have to identify which moments of silence had been copied.
In a related scandal, it was discovered that Ashley Simpson was not performing her three-minute silence live during a recent concert, but was in fact playing a pre-recorded three-minute silence.
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Re:That's hardly fair
They still are asskissing servants.
...the list could go on and on. The major difference actually is, that mercenaries had balls and risked their life while doing all this.
You have a somewhat romanticized and erroneous view of mercenaries.
500 years ago, mercenaries (such as the Italian condottieri) were notorious for being disloyal. They would change sides for a fee, or sometimes simply give themselves up or flee if the other side had a larger army. You want to keep your occupational hazards at a minimum.
The only real analogy you have is the first. Mercenaries and lawyers both profit from dispute. The rest is just silly. -
Re:Obvious!Nintendo of America has it's HQ in Redmond, WA, already.
You might want to look here.
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Re:Slashdot doesn't report...
agenda, n., pl. -das. (Usage note: "It is true that Cicero would have used agendum to refer to a single item of business before the Roman Senate, with agenda as its plural. But in Modern English a phrase such as item on the agenda expresses the sense of agendum, and agenda is used as a singular noun to denote the set or list of such items, as in The agenda for the meeting has not yet been set. If a plural of agenda is required, the form should be agendas: The agendas of both meetings are exceptionally varied.")
OED: "agenda, a. Pl. of AGEND (sense 3), treated as a singular." -
Re:Mod parent up
I would add that up until the invasion of Kuwait, the former Bush Administration was selling arms to Saddam. Additionally, most of the WMD raw materials including bioweapons cultures came from Saddam's good buddies in the US. So it is really funny to watch all this criticism of the UN when it was the Regan Administration (and later the first Bush administration) who gave active support to Saddam's WMD ambitions.
The U.S. did sell arms to Iraq in the 80's, however when you look at the amounts, you can see that these were miniscule compared to what they received from the USSR, France, and China. Even at its largest in 1988, U.S. sales only accounted for only 5% of Iraq's arms purchases. In fact based on these numbers, France has a lot to answer for.
Also the 'bioweapons cultures' that you refer to were most likely plain anthrax spores which were quite easy for anyone to order from a catalog back in the 80's. These have legitimate use for agricultural research and are not particularly dangerous unless they are 'weaponized' i.e. finely ground up, mixed with other substances to keep the spores viable, and mixed into an aerosol - a non-trivial task. -
Re:Same post with line breaks : /
"Wow, the original Game Boy, released in 1989, uses a 32 bit ARM7? I'm not into the cell phone market, so there's no telling how much of that information was false."
The Gameboy at that point used a Z80 cpu. The ARM cpu did exist in 1989, though it was just the 32 bit ARM2, which you'd usually find in Acorn Archimedes series of computers, the A3000, A540 and A4 laptop. The ARM7 showed up later.
The history of the ARM CPU is so much more than just a heart for cellphones! It's just a shame Acorn never made a direct impact in the USA or you'd know. -
Re:keplerian elements
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more info
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Re:99% of information theft can be summed up thusl
Petty Cash.
Do U.S. companies not do this? Have £50 or so in small notes and change locked in a drawer somewhere, you swap the receipt for your doodad with money from the petty cash box. Maybe you sign a paper ledger and someone types that in whenever they're sorting the accounts out. Seems like a better system than letting people potentially mess your whole company's payroll up by accident. In fact, I'd much rather keep vital stuff like accounts on a computer not connected to the network at all, not having a route to the internet is a great defence against viruses or crackers. I suppose the feasability of this depends on if your organisation uses electronic timesheets or not. -
Re:More information here...
Unfortunately that site you linked to appears to be slashdotted, or something. Here's a mirror:
http://www.answers.com/topic/power-outage-1 -
Re:Socialize anything,Microsoft is a special case which would never happen in a true capitalistic system.
Look at: http://www.answers.com/topic/trust-busting The Wikipedia definition is the best.
In the early 1900s Teddy Roosevelt (and others) set about "trust busting." Laissez faire economics had led to a number of "trusts" (monopolies) forming. Carnegie Steel, and other similar trusts came to dominate industries through vertical and horizontal integration. This means that one group of individuals would either
a) be on the boards of all of the major companies invovled in a certain activity or
b) control one activity from start to finish (meaning from the time that the raw materials are produced to the finished product.)
This created a massivly wealthy upper class with considerable power. Pure capitalism breeds monoplies like none other. That's why the government tries to regulate business
/history lessonNote: Capitialism is still much more effective than communism, socialism, etc. but "a true capitalistic system" doesn't really work either.
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Re:Waiter...
Well, there goes another snappy Slashdot post. 6.74E15 gallons is about 12% bigger than the capacity of all the Great Lakes. Since Mars has only about 28.4% Earth's surface area, that puts just this one reservoir in a league with a "Great Lakes" over 4x the size of ours. Now that is a lot of water, and maybe even a repository for Martian life.
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John Logie Baird
John Logie Baird recorded 30 line video onto 78rpm records in 1928. He also demonstrated a 600 line HDTV colour system in 1941.
See http://www.answers.com/topic/john-logie-baird
There's nothing new under the sun ! -
Re:Money?
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Re:Price Point
a) you're citing Wired News as a source. They are widely known for their poor quality of journalism.
b) is it possible that the blockbuster reps you quote are telling the truth but blockbuster can still exert censorship via other means? like coercing the studios to edit things themselves to gain blockbuster certification for distribution?
see or at the very least use their significant market share to influence studios to edit in order to lower their certification and reach a wider market here: http://www.answers.com/topic/blockbuster-video -
Re:It makes you wonder...
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I would consider both the Columbia (7 dead) and Soyuz-11 (3 dead) "recorded deaths in space". Of course, you can quibble about definitions (i.e. is a death at launch a death in space?) - you might count as many as 22. This article is pretty definitive.
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koyaanisqatsi
I find the links So you dont have to!
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Re:postmodern
OK, so I'm running under the assumption this post is a troll. But the questions do deserve an answer, so here goes:
On Postmodernism: Read some Jean-Francois Lyotard for starters. From the Postmodern Condition is his most important work. You might want to follow that up with some Bertens or Hamermas. And as I'm sure you already know, this wikipedia entry and this answers.com entry offer basic overviews (though the wikipedia entry is better IMO).
Meme is a term coined by Richard Dawkins in The Selfish Gene. Wikipedia also offers an overview of the term here.
Cheers,
--Maynard -
Re:calling the kettle communist??
Idiom "the pot calling the kettle black" + Bill Gates comparing Open Source to Communism.
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Re:Opera didn't invent tabbed browsing
Mosaic was first to have tabbed browsing in Apr 1993 http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=2a
x dbpnxpfceg?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Comparison+of+ web+browsers&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc03a/ -
Re:Superstitious Crackery
Well, you learn something new every day. I had no idea of the origins of that racist term, and had I, I might not have used it.
A Google Video search will reveal that the term has been used recently on the TV show Cheers, by Carla. I meant it in the same way she did - as a mildy insulting curse for someone who is kind of clueless.
the only thing that matters is results, not the cause or the belief system in which they may be rooted
The ends justify the means? I suppose a "master race" would be the kind of result worth any means - any belief system or cause. Oh wait. Maybe not.
You adhere to whatever religion you like, science, atheism, darwininsm whatever. If you produce the results in your work, then they (and you) are of use.
So, I can be Josef Mengele, and perform terrible experiments on humans - but if I figure out how to cure for instance, Malaria, then I'm "of use"?
It does matter what belief system you adhere to. Starting out by believing in (and naming your group after "Global Consciousness" makes it far more likely that you'll find "Global Consciousness" as the results of all of your experiments. Call me a skeptic.
noxious poison (chemotherapy)
You think chemotherapy is useless snake oil? I guess we do have a different view of what is useful. See, I think something is useful if it saves a tremendous number of lives. Look up "Norman Borlaug" sometime, if you want to know more about my hero. He made "franken-foods!" Ooh, scary. That's probably just as bad as chemo, in your book. Nevermind that he saved a billion people.
No one cares if ESP is inside the 'scientific' model of realtiy or not.
James Randi, Basava Premanand, Penn and Teller and Harry Houdini all cared a great deal.
The 'scientific' model is the factual one. If ESP were factual, it would be a part of the 'scientific' model. It's really not more tricky than that. Since ESP is not factual (and is therefore completely useless), it is not in the 'scientific' model.
How many hundred years of proof will it take to convince you?
And if you're not convinced - devise an experiment. And once you have, peer review it, or you're useless.
that is the only thing that counts; human beings
So, now I'm an anti-humanist? Wow. You really have gone on a wild roller-coaster ride. First I'm an "unthinker" because I think that outrageous claims require proof. Now I don't care about human beings? Fantastic. Soon, I'll be eating babies.
By the way - a good way to not lose a conversation is to never respond to most of the points your opponent brings up. You seem to be very good at that. Did you learn anything about modus tollens in this conversation? You seemed to have mastered the ad hominem tactic - I thought I'd broaden your horizons a bit, but since you haven't responded at all to the actual meat of the debate, I guess it is kind of fun to keep calling you an idiot. =) (I'm learning to enjoy the ad hominem, thanks to you!)
And if you're so outraged by the term (which I am happy to suggest has lost its original racist meaning), then I recommend you write these guys a letter:
Shrinky Dinks
K & B Innovations, Inc.
P.O. Box 223
N78 W31401 Kilbourne Road
North Lake, WI 53064-0223 -
Re:Superstitious Crackery
Well, you learn something new every day. I had no idea of the origins of that racist term, and had I, I might not have used it.
A Google Video search will reveal that the term has been used recently on the TV show Cheers, by Carla. I meant it in the same way she did - as a mildy insulting curse for someone who is kind of clueless.
the only thing that matters is results, not the cause or the belief system in which they may be rooted
The ends justify the means? I suppose a "master race" would be the kind of result worth any means - any belief system or cause. Oh wait. Maybe not.
You adhere to whatever religion you like, science, atheism, darwininsm whatever. If you produce the results in your work, then they (and you) are of use.
So, I can be Josef Mengele, and perform terrible experiments on humans - but if I figure out how to cure for instance, Malaria, then I'm "of use"?
It does matter what belief system you adhere to. Starting out by believing in (and naming your group after "Global Consciousness" makes it far more likely that you'll find "Global Consciousness" as the results of all of your experiments. Call me a skeptic.
noxious poison (chemotherapy)
You think chemotherapy is useless snake oil? I guess we do have a different view of what is useful. See, I think something is useful if it saves a tremendous number of lives. Look up "Norman Borlaug" sometime, if you want to know more about my hero. He made "franken-foods!" Ooh, scary. That's probably just as bad as chemo, in your book. Nevermind that he saved a billion people.
No one cares if ESP is inside the 'scientific' model of realtiy or not.
James Randi, Basava Premanand, Penn and Teller and Harry Houdini all cared a great deal.
The 'scientific' model is the factual one. If ESP were factual, it would be a part of the 'scientific' model. It's really not more tricky than that. Since ESP is not factual (and is therefore completely useless), it is not in the 'scientific' model.
How many hundred years of proof will it take to convince you?
And if you're not convinced - devise an experiment. And once you have, peer review it, or you're useless.
that is the only thing that counts; human beings
So, now I'm an anti-humanist? Wow. You really have gone on a wild roller-coaster ride. First I'm an "unthinker" because I think that outrageous claims require proof. Now I don't care about human beings? Fantastic. Soon, I'll be eating babies.
By the way - a good way to not lose a conversation is to never respond to most of the points your opponent brings up. You seem to be very good at that. Did you learn anything about modus tollens in this conversation? You seemed to have mastered the ad hominem tactic - I thought I'd broaden your horizons a bit, but since you haven't responded at all to the actual meat of the debate, I guess it is kind of fun to keep calling you an idiot. =) (I'm learning to enjoy the ad hominem, thanks to you!)
And if you're so outraged by the term (which I am happy to suggest has lost its original racist meaning), then I recommend you write these guys a letter:
Shrinky Dinks
K & B Innovations, Inc.
P.O. Box 223
N78 W31401 Kilbourne Road
North Lake, WI 53064-0223 -
Re:UTSA and other considerations
How can you trust someone that works at your company that won't even keep a secret over something as trivial as a product design, to keep a bigger secret?
If you can't trust someone on the little secrets, how can you trust them on the big secrets? How do you find out who is trustworthy if you can't even find out who is breaking your trust?
Apple is going to these journalists (who are encouraging people to break the NDS) because it is about the only way to find out who is leaking the information and breaking the NDA. A private investigation won't reveal anything simply due to the number of ways people could send in the information. The only way is to get the journalists to reveal it. Although, there is getting to be a mighty thin line between what some of these journalists are doing and "industrial espionage". -
Silly to dismiss
It's quite silly to dismiss the power of (ahem) alternative power.
For example, the Freedom Tower now under construction in NYC, USA will generate a significant amount of its own power. (as much as 20%!)
I'm a supporter of Nuclear technology, but only if it's open. The current "don't ask, don't tell" nuclear regime is stupid, stupid, stupid, and will never result in an industry that's truly safe. Nuclear technology should, like cryptography, be open, and should only be trusted when it's withstood significant, public, peer review.
Have you ever heard of Changing world technologies and their plans to convert garbage into crude oil? I've been following this one for about 2 years, and I think it's the "real deal". It's still in its infancy, but it's viable in many places now, today!
They're taking their time to refine things, and if I were them, I would, too. When I get the chance to invest in their technology, chances are, I will. -
Re:Wrong examples
BZZT... primary feature is a trio of functions, the AAA as it used to be called in Cisco materials: authentication, authorization, and access.
First of all, I never said that AD was ONLY an LDAP implementation. Second of all, I said you needed samba & other services to replace AD & that it wouldn't be 1:1. Finally, many others agree that a HUGE part of AD is the LDAP implementation.
Hell--they even chose to call it active directory!
In short primary != only & I never said that it was. -
Kudos for trying, but
As you said, "perhaps it's best to leave the journalism to the professionals."
(evil grin) Does anyone else feel that the interview read like Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson?
To the interviewer: it's a good strategy to butter up your subject and take a gradual incline to the "hard questions." A valiant effort, but you need a little more practice on your incline; the three or so questions that PR answered were a little out there - it was clear from these questions that you had an agenda you were trying to further, and the Business wanted no part of that. I don't fault them at all for not answering. Tact - look it up.
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Re:LMAO, AGAIN
hostel
hostel (hs'tl)
n.
1. A supervised, inexpensive lodging place for travelers, especially young travelers.
2. An inn; a hotel.
I think you meant:
hostile
hostile (hs'tl, -tl')
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of an enemy: hostile forces; hostile acts.
2. Feeling or showing enmity or ill will; antagonistic: a hostile remark.
3. Unfavorable to health or well-being; inhospitable or adverse: a hostile climate.
n.
1. An antagonistic person or thing.
2. An enemy in warfare.
No thank you's necessary. You are welcome. -
Re:LMAO, AGAIN
hostel
hostel (hs'tl)
n.
1. A supervised, inexpensive lodging place for travelers, especially young travelers.
2. An inn; a hotel.
I think you meant:
hostile
hostile (hs'tl, -tl')
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of an enemy: hostile forces; hostile acts.
2. Feeling or showing enmity or ill will; antagonistic: a hostile remark.
3. Unfavorable to health or well-being; inhospitable or adverse: a hostile climate.
n.
1. An antagonistic person or thing.
2. An enemy in warfare.
No thank you's necessary. You are welcome. -
Re:Uh huh....
I'm not sure what causes people to be so immediately defensive.
Because, sometimes, people abuse science for their own insane ideas? -
Re:Uh huh....
I'm not sure what causes people to be so immediately defensive.
Because, sometimes, people abuse science for their own insane ideas? -
Wikipedia already integrated into Google
With the definitions recently changing from dictionary.com to answers.com, Google has begun using Wikipedia in its searches. If you look up a definition, the resulting answers.com page has a subsection from Wikipedia.
Google could be feeling bad about burning up the resources of a free organization so they are giving back by way of servers and bandwidth.
The question is, are the ads on answers.com Google AdSense? -
Re:Judges _can_ judge
"Judges MUST start out a case totally unbiased. But they don't need to end up that way. In many cases, they should end up pretty negative towards one party. That's the basis for judgement. All dislike is not prejudice. Some is well founded."
Exactly. For those who still doubt, the word "prejudice" comes from (wait for it...) "pre" and "judge". If you make a JUDGEment before hearing the facts (PRE-fact, you might say), that's "prejudice." Get it?
(And when did Google start using answers.com? I like dictionary.com a lot more. Less info, loaded faster. No, I do *not* need translations into Dutch, French, German, Greek, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Swedish, Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, and Hebrew _every single time I search_.) -
Re:Linux is doing something right
Why doesn't linux just speak for itself instead of relying upon a few thousand nasal whines?
So, how much money is Linux, Inc. spending on advertizing? Advertizing == meaningless; word-of-mouth == good. The other reason that Linux people have to tell others about Linux is the simple fact that almost nobody has tried it, and a good many haven't even heard of Linux. (This would be quite similar to me telling you about the cherimoya (also called custard apple), which I think is "the most delicious fruit known to men", though Mark Twain said so first. But I bet you have never tried it so you don't give a shit.) -
Re:Shorthorn?Or Longshot defined as
A remote possibility of success, as in It's a long shot that Joan will actually finish the marathon, or He may be a good programmer, but he's a long shot for that job. This expression alludes to the inaccuracy of early firearms, which when shot over a distance rarely hit the target. It is commonly used in horseracing for a bet made at great odds. A related phrase is not by a long shot, meaning “not even remotely,” as in I'll never make it to California in three days, not by a long shot. [Late 1800s]