Slashdot Mirror
Software Distribution By Vinyl
townxelliot writes "Beige Records is home to the intriguing 8-Bit Construction Set. Their record has the distinction of being "the first ever use of the vinyl recording medium for software distribution - the inside tracks are audio data which can be dubbed to cassette tape and booted in your respective atari or commodore 8-bit computers". Samples of their music ("entirely programmed in 6502 assembly language") are available for download."
that we'll start getting floppy 45's in magazines again?
if you want people to think you know what you are talking about, just put ".com" at the end of everything you say.com
I wonder if you'll be able to pull the same ole trick w/ this method as you did with music. If you used lighter grooves, you able to pack more music in, it'd just be more quiet, deeper grooves was louder music, but less of them.
when copyright infringement of computer games could be done with a double cassette deck.
Some good decks could even reliably copy games in high speed dubbing mode.
Whoohoo!
if you play it backwards you can briefly hear a voice say "6502 is dead"
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Basicode (Hobbyscoop) was distributed on flexi discs..
Real Men use eight tracks.
but I need to know before I buy - is the record DRM-laden ?
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
...if you wrote DeCSS in this. Perhaps the MPAA and the RIAA would sue each other over who has the right to sue you, thus annihilating themselves into pure energy?
With great numbers come great responsibility!
Okay, I remember scrimping and saving for a very long time to upgrade my Atari to the 1050 disk from the 1010 Tape recorder... 45 minute load times were KILLING me... I boxed it back up and haven't looked at it since...
Sig currently under construction. Mind the gap....
that we'll start getting floppy 45's in magazines again?
AOL will of course be the first and largest user of this new medium.
Home Computer Magazine (HCM) did this back in the 80's if i remember right.
* = $C000:.MEM
LDA #115
JSR $FFD2
LDA #108
JSR $FFD2
LDA #097
JSR $FFD2
LDA #115
JSR $FFD2
LDA #104
JSR $FFD2
LDA #100
JSR $FFD2
LDA #111
JSR $FFD2
LDA #116
JSR $FFD2
SYS 49152
I wonder if slashdot has ever been output in 6502 assembly language before?
I'm a big tall mofo.
I've been joking about LP-ROMs for years :)
This page has data on various vinyl records with computer data stored on them. Most of which are about 20 years old. So they're not the first to distribute computer data on vinyl.
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
Hey, wasn't there a laser record deck called the Finial? Laser pickup of vinyl: just mod your ATX box to take a 14 inch wide drive and you're away!
--
But I'm Conroy's plant!
--
This reminded me of this guys:
http://www.vinylvideo.com/
Was that a hoax or does it really work?
I don't think this is a primer. I remember a magazine (perhaps Keyboard Magazine) that had a disk with software in the 80s. And of course, there was the Dutch radio that broadcasted software over FM...
Now you can be the envy of every nerd on your block by having a party where you scratch -- literally scratch -- copies of Windows ME on vinyl.
:D
Will data scratching be the next big thing in hip-hop/DJing?
Two freaks, no foes. It takes absolutely nothing to make some people angry.
didn't matter what, just that it be close enough to mention this guy in a post.
Diverse artists such as Tomita, Shakin' Stevens & the Thompson Twins distributed software on vinyl over 20 years ago.
http://www.kempa.com/blog/archives/000053.html
OH DEAR.
a bat bit
you.
This is a cool idea aslong as you dont have public enemy over to have cucumber sandwiches too often, i can imagine that Terminator X and his scratching antics could cause some problems
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
This reminds me of the TI-99/4A's cassette tape storage. For those of us who couldn't afford to buy the floppy drive, it was fun wating 30+ minutes to save/load your programs. It would wait for you to flip the tape or change it if needed. I guess what did you expect for $500 in the early 80's?
check out the album XL1 by Pete Shelley (ex-Buzzcocks). apart from being a great album,t m
the last track on this album called "zx spectrum code" contains computer graphics for the sinclair zx spectrum computer. see http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.shelley/xl1-01.h
cheers, lars
"hmmm, musically we have the talent of a set of rusty horseshoes... how can we get poepl to notice us! Ah! Let's do something so stupid and backwards that most people will mistake it for clever."
LP rot?
The preceding message was based on actual events. Only the names, locations and events have been changed.
In the 80's, we had magazines that would include software on plastic 'vinyl' slip-ins that were bundled on the cover .. i used to have a whole collection of these mini-records, full of software from the magazine ..
;)
nice idea, though, to be mixing up assembly and music. take that, miss spears!!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
there was an artists who did a track on his cd. (matthew sweet maybe?) and it was basically a one-sided modem transmission. you could put a phone near the speaker and get a text message from the artist. i think it was at like 300 baud or something so it wasn't much, and this was like 10 years ago now.
When I worked on Commodore User (UK mag) in the 80s, we gave away a flexi-disc as a covermount. It was basically a floppy plastic record. One side was a Heaven 17 track and the other, IIRC, was a datatrack designed to be recorded onto tape then loaded on a C64.
Rainbow Magazine used to ship with a floppy record every once in a while.
It had the same code on it that was listed in the magazine in text, but the record came without the typing and type-o-ing.
Rainbow Magazine was a magazine with content based around the Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer.
Never ask for directions from a two-headed tourist! -Big Bird
and the C64 was oh-so-popular, the local radio station used to send freeware C64 programs over radio so you could record them on a tape and use with your Commodore. It was good listening also, if you happened to like industrial/noise.
Real mean do pkgadd from acetates.
Cheers,
Ian
Now the question is, if you don't have a gramophone, can you read the data with a scanner?
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
Great. Now who makes A/V software for my turntable?
Anti-Virus, that is.
http://old-computers.com/history/detail.asp?n=30&t =2
If you Listen To TFA, you'll realise that this isn't just software written to vinyl, this is software encoded in music, that happens to be written to vinyl. That is, the assembly code, when played back, actually SOUNDS like music. This is completely different from having a data section at the end of a vinyl disc (for all of you who have been using that as a "this has been done before with..." example).
'tho listening to some Speedy-J tracks, sounds like there some data encoded in those!
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
A CDROM could be used for the same purpose.
Put audio on CD. Record audio from CD to cassette so it can be loaded on your archaic computer.
They'll be putting software on CDs next!
As above.
back in 1975/1975, a copy of 6800 BASIC ..p
was put on a flexible record, and bound
into Interface Age magazine. You had
to play it, record it to cassette, and
load it in the machine.
If you really wanted to, you could probably encode music onto a piece of cheese...but what's the point?
if you're going to be a pain in the ass, you should pull out all the stops and be a SEVERE pain in the ass.
A story like this should have been posted later in the day.... I woke up, went to slashdot, read the story and for a brief second thought the last 25 years of my life had been some type of twisted dream and that I was late for school. Gee thanks guys.... I nearly had a heart attack ;)
As a somewhat musical engineering grad code monkey geek from Wisconsin, I must say, Keanu-style, "Whoa."
So, let's see... easy listening can go on Neufchatel, rock would obviously be cheddar (classic rock on mild, alternative on medium, and hard rock on sharp in order to be able to support the modulation), and country would be Swiss (if only so that there will be breaks in the asinine monotony).
...and rap on Parmesan? They both stink...
--
But I'm Conroy's plant!
--
Christ almighty, it's the Star Wars kid all over again, but without the charisma.
Oh, and doing a fair impression of Jabba the Hutt, rather than a Jedi...
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
Why vinyl?
I'm waiting for the SACD version.
I took my old PET tapes and digitized them. Then used a program called WAV2PRG to save my old original programs for vice. Amazingly, almost all of my 25 year old tapes still worked.
this came on vinyl iirc
I remember in the early 80's, during the Apple II time, there was a radio that sent a software through FM, which you'd record to your tape recorder, and then load in your computer. Floppys were much too expensive to afford a drive at that time...
how does it sound?
I have just here this record by Kissing The Pink. It was released in the mid 80s and I'm sure there are many other examples.
If you've interest beyond genning wisecrax, here is an interesting site that discusses the history of cardboard records.
The Internet Museum of
FLEXI/CARDBOARD/ODDITY
Records - Records - Records
I guess the hobby magazines of the MOSTEK era were just too cheap to include code on flexi media. FWIW I still have two KIM-1 and a bunch of cassette tapes. One is early ceramic chip andotherislater plastic. It was quitethemachinein it's day for cheap computer play.
Wonder if these guys (referenced in parent article) have given flexi any thought?
I also wonder if anyone remembers optical pickup phonograph record transducers. They were expensive but would keep your vinyl in pristine condition.
At the other end of the spectrum, there were record it at home devices using a hot wire and acetate disks or tape. This system was also used with a large acetate loop for recording police calls, including the JFK assination shots back in '64.
All in all mechanical sound reproduction is pretty neat and if you think about your experience with other recording media, may be the only thing that survives into the next millenium.
FWIW I also have a working example of the Walkie-Recordall mentioned in this recording history link.
I am not affiliated with any of the referenced sites.
If chickens can learn to play the piano, why do dolphins(not the fish) get all the press?
There was a Monty Python Album with 3 groves.
http://www.eeggs.com/items/2874.html
I saw this about two weeks ago and almost peed my pants!
Voyagers 115 earth images encoded on a gold plated record.2 0. And anyone who says but thats gold and not vinyl can go jump.
http://www.everything2.com/?node_id=4990
During the early computing days a few magazines gave away flexi-discs (records to us laymen) that had software on them. Reason was that distribution/pressing of flexi-disc records was way way cheaper than attaching a cassette tothe magazine. These that I have date back to 1981. One nice one has VIC-20, ZX81 and some PET software on the disc, also believe has track for Dragon micro but been a long long time since i dug them out. Today we have the great cover CD's (which are about as cheap to make as flexi-discs were back then), though CD's do fly alot lot further @:_).
So upon reading this article all I could think was "I wonder if I could get my friend with the rediculous stereo system including phonograph to dub this to CD for me so I could make it into an audio sample and somehow stream it into my Atari 800 emulator through the emulated casette device.. Hrrm. I wonder if they even bothered to code that bit..."
Here's one that's maybe earlier? HERE. It's advertised in the Oct. 1977 issue of Byte Magazine - I've always wanted to find one but never seen any. Besides, one scratch and your screwed. Better back it up to reel-to-reel tape quick!
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
In the late 80's there was a radio program in Sao Paulo (The Sao Paulo University Radio, BTW), that did broadcast computer software at 2400bps.
IIRC it was some ZX-Spectrum games that they did transmit.
I myself never tried to tape the transmitions and use them, although.
-><- no
"Matching Tie and Handkerchief" has two parallel groves on one side. No mention of the material on the second track either. I always wondered why that side played so fast until I accidently hit the hidden track one time.
This msg is brought to you by the letter 'W'.. for Worthless Wuss
John Logie Baird recorded 30 line video onto 78rpm records in 1928. He also demonstrated a 600 line HDTV colour system in 1941.
See http://www.answers.com/topic/john-logie-baird
There's nothing new under the sun !
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
"The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand", or so I have read.
...Of course, there are many of us who truly believe the quality of software distributed by Vinyl, will always be higher than that distributed by CD-ROM.
Still too hi-tech for my tastes! I rely on software distribution by word-of-mouth. The bugs introduced by the iterated copy process get really interesting!
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
As we all know, the moon is made of cheese, which means "the man in the moon" is a greyscale image stored in cheese.
Already done!
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
I seem to recall the floppy ROM's showed up in early 1977. Could be wrong as the first copy I picked up was in early 1977. It was a pretty decent magazine at the time.
A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
"Samples of their music ("entirely programmed in 6502 assembly language") are available for download." ...not anymore.
"the first ever use of the vinyl recording medium for software distribution"
This is rubbish. I remember back in the days of the ZX81 et-al those paper thin floppy records were given away on the front of computer magazines. Much cheaper than a cassette and long before before the days of the CD, of course.
So they are "first" only in that they are about 25 years late !!!
If they want to impress me, they should get it to work with one of those Discman headphone-to-cassette-shell adapters for cars. Direct from the vinyl to the cassette drive, without "copying". Then they could really blow my mind whistling into a microphone hooked to the adapter.
I wonder what kinds of software is really encoded backwards in those Led Zeppelin and Beatles records. Maybe "turn me on, dead man" is really literal, and "turn me off, dead man" is encoded somewhere else.
--
make install -not war
There were some viynl records in the UK during the 80's which had software distributed on them. So technology hasn't exactly moved on ;-)
cosmic
bell labs did it with a gold disc during WW2
Maybe I'm just cheesy, but that's a damn catchy tune. The only word I understand is 'haiduk', which I think means 'thief' in some sort of gypsy/czech language. I'm guessing it's a guy trying to pick up chicks.
A computer magazine in the early 80's published such a thing - the Floppy ROM. It is mentioned in this Wikipedia entry
Stick that in your | and smoke it.
In the 1980's some time there was a UK magazine that had a cover mounted flexi-disk thing with a ZX Spectrum game on it. If memory serves, it was a Thompson Twins (as in the 1980's band) adventure game (as in text).
/. article on playing vynl mp3's on an iPod... or perhaps a vPod... no? ok!
I also seem to recall I could never get it to load!
Honestly, you young'uns -- there's nothing new! I'm just waiting for the
So my old idea of implementing TCP/IP over African jungle drums to connect the deep rainforest places to the internet is not so crazily retro after all ;)
Just imagine what you could do to mobile phones and VoIP, and to the African employment levels.
In the second link it shows the guys apparently doing this.
Why in the world is Agent Smith wearing a helmet?
Direct away from face when opening.
while Beige is awesome, this record came out several years ago. (and it's somewhat well known that there was software distributed by vinyl before that.) How about posting about some of their more recent stuff. ;o)
I suggest using American Cheese for Country music.
Swiss really should be used for yodeling.
The Grateful Dead would go on Hemp cheese (yes it exists).
Have to admit I don't understand this story at all. Looks like they released a bunch of mp3s on vinyl, but is that "software"? I would call it the first release of "data" on vinyl. Maybe I'm missing the point. But then I don't even know what l337 means.
And if you play it backwards, it makes "Bill is dead" pop up on a blue screen.
Never pet a burning dog.
A buddy of mine used to work at the local college radio station. They had a set time early in the am (say 3am every Tues night) a couple hours after the station sign-off when they would play programs over the air. You would set your tape deck to record, and then you'd have your app (or, more likely, game) ready for you by morning.
Why not just use punch cards while you are at it.
A German company offered something similar on CD quite a while ago for Commodore 64. They had also some computer music on that CD. I think the company was Rainbow Arts and the composer Chris Huelsbeck. To transfer the software to the C64 you had to connect a cable (don't know whether or not it came in the package).
I remember seeing recently a program that could retrieve the data from WAV files of early home computer programs. This program was specifically for the Tandy Radio Shack Color Computer and MC-10.
The program examined the ampltitude of the data sample (from the ADC conversion for creating the WAV file). It counted the number of samples above a certain value until the sample values fell back below that value. Then it recreated the bytes according to the home computer's frequency-shift- keying strategy.
There might be another program to create WAV files from home computer data and programs.
While this data conversion across media is interesting, I doubt that there is much worth saving from these old home computers. Except, of course, the Apple II and some Trash 80s (the affectionate and appropriate name for early Tandy-Radio Shack Z80-based micros) that were used for business records. Most of the stuff that really worth saving was transfered to the PC or the Mac, or was printed and could be retrieved through optical character recognition.
A more complex challenge would be getting large amounts of data from the thousands of 5.25 and 3.5 inch floppies that can't be read because of soft errors, but were never backed up because people assumed that their data was safe.
Both on flexi-records and on hard vinyl!
You youngsters don't know how good you have it.
Dog is my co-pilot.
Digital isn't "cool."
me:I got a great new game for the speccy!
:-)
friend:wow, can i get a copy?
me:sure
boooooo boop
boooooo booop
booble de booble de booble
boobde boop
the long winter nights used to just fly by
hi folks
thanks for the debate on our record, hope someone likes the music anyway. obviously not the first data on vinyl [just never bothered to change the webpage in 5 years] and actually not the first time the 8-bit construction set has been slashdotted. but nonetheless it's always a pleasure to see what people think.
we received an anonymous and very interesting email in early 2002 detailing some patents regarding software distribution on vinyl. i'm appending it below for interested parties.
thanks again
& peace out nerds
paul
paul AT beigerecords DOT com
*****
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:59:03 -0500
Distribution of computer programs on vinyl records
was done in the early 70's by several different
researchers. First, a guy named
Allan B. Chertok. He has several patents in this field,
which I would recommend that you guys read:
US Patent 3,662,350 (1972)
US Patent 3,740,733 (1973)
US Patent 3,662,354 (1972)
Also- Norman L. Harvey. This guys was a real genius.
Check out his patent: US 3,755,792 (1973).
This is not to say that your work is not "original"
and "cool". But please- give credit where credit is due!
*****
as much as it's 6502 assembly FOR A COMMODORE COMPUTRE. It wouldn't work on an Apple, for example.
Real programmers don't rely on jumping to system subroutines to see their "output".
Sometime back in '79 or '80, somebody included a message on an LP that was recorded in the tones that the "Tarbel" tape format used. I think it was Emerson, Lake and Palmer, but I'm not sure of that.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Well, most records I've seen only had one groove... What records had two grooves?
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Final Scratch, which is distributed by Stanton Magnetics, created a system which uses a usb adapter and vinyl disks to get audio playback. Essentially, the disks are encoded with what sounds like noise, think dial up modem, the usb interface connects to the pc and using a customized linux application, it decodes the audio signal and uses it to detect where a track position is. I always thought this was one of the first forms of software on vinyl, but then again I'm probably not old enough to know any better.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
A few decades ago "Mad" magazine had a pull-out 45 called "It's A Gas" that had six or seven grooves (think it was only on one side, though). Had to play it a bunch of times to make sure you heard every version of the short song (each one ended with a different belch :) ).
Hrm... I figured Slashdot would have covered this long ago. To most of us in the electronic dance community, this is quite old news. But, figuring that most of us here are NOT in the electronic dance community, I guess it's discovery is newsworthy.
For those that remember the excellent SID music from the C64 and have always wanted it as a synth, have a look at the SidStation (http://www.sidstation.com) and the HardSID card (http://www.hardsid.com/). Excellent stuff there.
I tried to write a sequencer for my old Atari 800XL back in '1988 or so. Never finished it. Now migh be a good time to pick up on it again.
Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
Tomita used a Tarbell cassette interface card to encode data on his records back in the late seventies.
The May 1977 issue of Interface Age featured an article on Robert Uiterwyk's 4k Basic. The record included two test patterns; a "5" and "U*" stream, a loader, and basic dump. The player was interfaced to a "Kansas City" 300 baud tape interface at 33 1/3 rpm. It is easy to understand the lack of any standard here with the warning "Don't rely on it for more than ten or twenty loads because it will wear out."
Despite what it said at http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/computers.html it can be patched to any 6800 system with a minumum of 6k.
Several records with malware have already been found in the wild. The most severe, "Cant.B.Playd.On.Atari", reportedly destroys any Atari on which it is run.
I don't think they can call themselves first...
I used to get those paper/plastic (perhaps thin vinyl???, if so they can't even claim first vinyl program record) records in an atari mag. They contained programs you could dub off to tape and then use the tape to program your atari.
How is this different?
The warmth of Vinyl in software!
When I was working on the British computer magazine in the early 1980s I developed a flexidisk with an audio recording of a ZX81 program. It worked, but dealing with reader's support calls was a nightmare.
I bought this record for DJing, but curiosity finally led me to investigate the "data track," so I recorded the Atari track onto tape and set up my dusty old 800XL computer and 1010 cassette recorder. Had to re-record a couple of times to overcome clicks and pops, but it worked!
A roller rink organ plays over the TV speaker while the program loads. The program itself is a simple intro screen and keyboard synth; nothing to get excited about. They did give props to Drexciya in the credits, though. ;-)
They also promised free copies of more music if I mailed in a screenshot, but I never received anything. Bastards!
Done before in computer magazines it may even have been in the 70's, certainly early 80's.
Definately record type delivery, like the floppy records. Can't say for certain the material was vinyl though.
all the best,
drew
FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
...don't ask me, i'm too busy transferring the C64 remixes on my lp copy of Pete Shelley's 'XL1' to Cassette.
I used to get magazines in the 80's and they had plasticcy records on them that were supposed to be Sinclair Spectrum games. They never worked :P but hey!
Try and patent it you bastiches! I dares ya!
Aha. Ahahaha. You're funny. No really, you are. You can keep telling yourself that...
as I replied to sibling poster of yours - the error appears to have been mine. Apparently where I read the music was written in the assembly language, all that actually meant was the music was generated by running a program written in assembly (which games/demo's used to do, nothing new/special here), and the software was on a different section of the vinyl (also nothing new/special here).
I misinterpreted as I assumed this story was interesting. I guess it isn't, and everyone who said "this isn't new cuz..." IS in fact right.
-2A
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
For one issue (the first, I think), they put a 45rpm flexible record on the front cover. You played it on your record player into the Spectrum and it loaded as normal. It had the benefit that you could just put the needle on the track of the program that you wanted to play for instant random access - way better than tape unless your record jumped.
I can't be sure (it's over 20 years ago), but I think it was on 'Your Sinclair' or 'Crash' magazine.
This 12" is a classic in the turntablist scene. One side is Atari, the other side is Commodore, each side containing music either created by the sound chip of each respective sytem, or sampled from them; short tunes and locked groove loops. There's also period advertisements on each side for both systems. The inside track on each side is data.
I bought my re-press a few years ago at
http://turntablelab.com/
Not sure if they still have 'em in stock..
This isn't the first time this has been done. See http://www.kempa.com/blog/archives/000053.html for an article on hidden games in 80's records.
The PBS computer program The Computer Chronicles in its later years did this too (transmit software in its broadcast.) During the last few minutes when they quickly ran through the latest headlines. You needed some special bit of hardware to load the program into your computer.
The video of the host was sort of a low framerate grainy quality, which I didn't quite understand since one side of the screen displayed a mishmash of dots. Unless (what I figure,) the latter was just for show.
-gko
Read the ad right here from Datamation Magazine:
http://www.panix.com/~kludge/egg-1970.jpeg
Tag lost or not installed.
The Soup Dragons' "Soft As Your Face" EP has two grooves on each side.
www.wavefront-av.com
We have a back up meduim that will last as long as paper. And I don't have to upgrade the drive.
What?
And with a scanner you can read those chicken scratchs.
What is the densest barcoding? I think that Xerox has it, it's bizarre but it will scan using a scanner or CCD based reader just fine. It can even be read easily by taking a picture of it and it prints well using most any printing process.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Lyrics. Discography. Buy album. Information Society's album "Peace & Love Inc." has a track "300bps 8,N,1" which is designed to be played into a modem. Original release date was October 1992, and I'm not sure if it was available on Vinyl or only on CD.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Voyager has images and audio recordings on it which are purely data. It provides manual instructions for taking the artifacts on the device and recreating the data in original form. Hence, no software or computer given. The article is title 'Software Distribution by Vinyl'. The article concerns programs which are stored to one audio storage mechanism, vinyl. That audio can be transfered to another audio storage mechanism, magnetic tape, and then the resulting recording can be treated as computer code read by a computer's tape drive. Finally, that code can be run as software.
Now, if I were the snarky type, the obvious tag hear would be to mention how many seem to fail to read the articles before commenting and the next logical progression is for users to not even read the submission text and then not even the headline. But I'm sure we all now how redundant such things can be. And perhaps you read it all and just made an honest mistake?
You like splinters in your crotch? -Jon Caldara