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Why bother with Estonia? Just go to Belgium. At least the code of the ID reader and the whole security is out in the open. Somebody even put it on Github and anybody can see if an ID is valid.

So much easier to hack if you know the source, No need to try to figure it out.

The main thing is passport number and identity card number. Both can be canceled easy where I am. Yes, it would cost a bit of time and money, but nothing to worry about.

In Belgium you can call 00800 2123 2123 for free inside Belgium or +32 2 518 2123 if the 0800 number does not work.

That way the abuse is prevented.
Companies that use Belgian ID cards will use https://www.checkdoc.be/CheckD... to verify if an ID is valid. If the card is not valid, then the transaction (like opening a bank account, renting a house) will be prevented.

Belfian ID cards have a chip with information that you can read when you buy a cheap card reader. Reader software is open source : https://eid.belgium.be/en You can compile it yourself. Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, RedHat, CentOS en openSUSE have downloadable packages or it is available in the repos.

Knowing what to do if yourt identification papers are compromised is a good-to-know thing. And not just the cancel part. What do you need to do afterwards?

In Belgium we have something that we can use to identify ourselves online. https://eid.belgium.be/en

First: In Belgium everybody older than 12 has to have an ID. If this is a good idea or not is not part of this discussion.

On each card there is a chip that can be read by a cheap reader, if you want and with Open Source Software. This can then be used to easily identify yourself both online and in e.g. a store, a hospital, or any other moment you need to.

A cheap cardreader of 10 EUR is enough. Most people will have one at home to fill out their taxes. Filling out my taxes that way takes about 2 minutes, as I have nothing to declare and everything is already filled out.

If your card is lost, you phone a numberan the card will be invalid.

e.g. If you rent out an appartment, you will probably not have the ability to do all this automatically.
So you read the details with a 10 EUR cardreader that you will already own for your taxes and go to https://www.checkdoc.be/CheckD... to verify if the ID is valid.

Yes, there are downsides to this system. One of them is that if you use them for e.g. age verification to buy cigarettes, they can potentially read the adress and start spamming as there is no restriction on what they can read. However we do have GDPR.

However I must say that it is not used enough. Not even as an option. I would LOVE if e.g. my provider would have it as an option to verify if it is me or (espeically) my telecom operator.

OTOH if I need to change anything with my Telco, I just go to the store, they read the card and I am identified.

Yes, fraud is always possible.Perhaps people do not trust the code. Well, it IS OSS, so please, I beg you, find issues with it and tell the people who maintain the code. The more issues are found, the safer it will get, as they then can be resolved.

That is because you only look at the security. I look at the usability. I would have to buy a new phone and what I can buy would be limited. Obviously the majority of the people would go for one that will be fixed on the phone, so having it on the phone is less secure than having data on the phone.

And I am sure there will be different ones from bank to bank. I already have two RSA key generators. One that works as it is, the other I have to put my card in. So that means that when I travel I either take them with me, with the risk of losing them. That would require replacement when I get home and that will take time. At least a day of work anb go to the bank and ask for a new one.

Or I do not take them with me and if I want to do a transfer, I am unable to do so. Yes, I have been in a situation where I needed to transfer more than the minimal daily amount I can do with my phone (limited at 2500 EUR) and did not have the RSA generators with me in a foreign country. Luckily the company understood the reason and took the risk of getting payment after they performed their service.

To me what would be OK is if they all used Google Authenticator and send the specific codes via snail mail, like they send pin codes via snail mail. Not via email. Not even if it is an emergency. Not to the bank. Not to your neighbor, or your dad or your son.

And changing the address must be done with proof. But in Belgium we have it easy. Everybody older than 12 has to have an ID. On that ID is a chip. That chip can be read with open source software and even can be used for other things. Just yesterday I filled out my taxes.

A change of address means you need to go to the city hall. They will edit your address and put the new address on the chip. SO if I say my SIM card is broken, they will send a new one. I do not think they will just put it on another sim card.

The real issue is that they put it on another sim card without you being there. Either send a new one or let people go to a store where they need to identify themselves in a manner that is normal where you live.

Belgium also has a tax based on engine size and emissions.

The reason they don't do it is because people do not want an ID.
In Belgium we have an ID with a chip. We have a national number (yyyymmdd-aaa-bb) and an ID. The National number by itself does not do much. You need an ID. On https://www.checkdoc.be/ everybody can verify if the card is valid or not.
If your card is lost or stolen, you call that in (24/7 on a free number) and the card will be blocked. You will need to go to the police for a temporary card that will have some serious limitations. e.g. no credit.
For a job it would mean you would need to show a new card within a reasonable time (e.g. a month or so) or you have issues with your job or even no job till you show an offical ID.

On top of that we have the National Bank that has all the loans and credits when ONLY banks and credit institutions can get (limited) information and that is used to see e.g. if you can buy that new iPhone on credit or not.

So this has nothing to do with just illegals. It could go much further, like credit scores and what not. But that would mean people would be required to have an ID. And many people will be against that.

Here is how we do it in Belgium
1) When you are born or when you become an official person you get a National ID. This is your date of birth, an increasing number and a control number.
That is you. However that number is NOT to identify you. It is to be used AFTER identification. If this would somehow be broken for whatever reason, you can get a new one.
2) You get an ID. Since forever when you are 12. This ID is used to well, ID you. There is a number of the ID. You can verify if an ID is valid or not on https://www.checkdoc.be/ If it is stolen or lost you call it in and it will be blocked right away. You will have to go to the police for a temp one if they stop you (e.g. when you where speeding) and you can not do anything where you would need an ID, like take a loan. You will have to get a new ID. That take up to 2 weeks.

The data on the chip can be read via open source https://eid.belgium.be/en Source is available for also Linux, so you can read the code.
That ID is to, well, ID you.

The downside is that you can not block what can be read. That means that if it is read, they can read your address and age. So they could spam you. As long as you not put it in every reader you see, scamming is a lot harder (never impossible)

The thing is that the ID is not unique. You need to replace it every 5 years. It can be lost or stolen. The fact that that is possible is a GOOD thing, because that means the procedure is in place that theft is an option. Having something in place that can not be (easily) changed is the issue.

Companies, once they have identified you, will use the National Number. But only after identification. At that moment it becomes easier to use. However when identification is needed (e.g. if you want to increase your credit limit) you will need your ID again to identify you.

So US, it is open source, use it as you please.

Belgium is such a country. You have a National Number YYYYMMDD-XXX-ZZ
Date backward, counter, The last two are gender and a control number. So the first baby born on 20170911 will get 20170911-001-12 (Or something similar) Well, not born, but officially mentioned, so that could be somebody who comes to Belgium at the age of 60. He will not be number 001 for that day, bit 857 or whatever.

If that number is abused, they could give you a new number. However that national number by itself means nothing. You also must have an ID card. That card is your way to ID yourself.
On that ID there is a chip. That info is readable via open source software : https://eid.belgium.be/en
It can be used (but is not done in too many places) to do electronic signature. I use it to do my taxes online. Easy and fast.

It is used as age verification for e.g. buying cigarettes and beer at vending machines to verify age.

Those IDs can be stolen, so if you need to verify them, you go to https://www.checkdoc.be/CheckD... and you can see if it is valid or not. That is all you will see OK or NOK.

If they are stolen, you call a number and they block the card. You then need to go to the police to get a temporary paper and go to the city hall to ask for a new one. That one will then have a new number.
Cards are valid for 5 years.

So what are the downsides?
1) If you use it, they will be able to see all the information. e.g. if you use it to verify your age, it will be able to read your name and address. There are laws what they could do with that info, but it is possible for them to start sending spam. More a minor inconvenience than a serious risk in reality.
2) The Police could play Gestapo and ask everybody for their papers. However if they do that, it is very likely they will get in trouble and fired. Accountability and such.
I have had it once that they asked me on the street for my ID. Did a verification and I was on my way in 5 minutes. Two days later I saw them do the same with somebody else who looked very similar and was dressed very similar to me. So clearly they where looking for somebody. The fact they did it that way tells me that this was not just about some unpaid parking tickets or speeding or even DUI.

Other time I had to show my ID where when I was with a DUI many years ago. (Took my drivers license for several weeks and rightfully so.)

In Belgium it is handled with the combination of you (obligatory) ID card that has a chip, a reader and a PIN you select yourself.

So all people need to do is get a card reader and install the software. It runs under Windos, Mac and Linux.
If you are paranoid, you could even compile it yourself as it is open source. http://eid.belgium.be/en

As a person who lives in Belgium and who has to have an ID with him at all times that has a chip in it Like this I am in favour of this. I am able to do my takes by using it and I do not understand why more stores do not use it. I do not understand why banks do not use it.

I would not want to use it with e.g. /., but there are plenty of places I would applaud it as they already have my personal details.

And to be clear, I trust the European Government more with my privacy than I trust private companies.

As long as they implement something like the eID from Belgium (http://eid.belgium.be/en) which is open source and already not that hard to implement, please do. Yes, it runs under Linux.

Why would I be in favour? Because I could use 1 identification for everything that I want it to be. Again for things that already have my real information, like my phone operator, electricity company, bank, insurance company, city, state, Amazon, Credit Card, Provider,...

Things I would not want it would be things similar to /. DNS hosting and other pure Online things where I do not need offline representation.

Concerning the tax program. It apparently depends on your country. e.g. in Belgium it works great via Linux. But that is because it is via a website and authentication is done via your (obligatory) ID with a chip on it and the source for the readers is open source and available compiled in all major distro's.or downloable via http://eid.belgium.be/en

Same in Belgium. Signing is done with your eID card. Worried about having an eID card (Card with chip) and what they might hide? Download the source code en do whatever you want with it. http://eid.belgium.be/en/devel...

It works under Linux and it is a shame that not more of this is used for websites. You could easily order something and not only will your adress be filled out, the website will be sure it is correct and age is verified.

It can also be used as a legal signature for contracts, unlike e.g. email or fax.

Where I work (Belgium) we are not allowed to accept customer contracts via email or fax. We need the original signature. Otherwise the documents are not legal.
In other places faxes can be accepted and even emails.

We are now working on a complete electronic system that uses the ID card that everybody MUST have. http://eid.belgium.be/
Many people have cardreaders to fill out their taxes already and the surce is open and available for various systems, inluding Linux.

So what is possible in one country is not possible in another country and it varies even within the country. As if the EU is made up of different countries and not just states.

> By contrast Belgium's record of 18 months without a government as a result of PR should be a warning to us all.

Does not really matter in Belgium. During absence of federal government, we still got - for 10e6 people country - more than six parliaments, 3 regional governments and 3 linguistic community having a lot of power. Power is split in so many parts that losing one does not matter.

Not having a government during the peak of the economical crisis was actually good: nothing stupid done, debt stabilized, ...

The Brussels region, and its Flemish suburbs, hosts a lot of belligerently anti-Flemish French speakers. You have to go through a lot of hassle, and can be submitted to a lot of abuse, if you want to be addressed in anything else than French. This is, though, a flagrant violation of language laws.

In Belgium there is a 'General Identifier' It is your birthday + some extra numbers as there will be more then 1 person born on the same day.
This is then linked to an (obliged) ID card.
The ID cards have a chip that can be read by a generic cardreader. Applications are available online, as well as the open source software. http://eid.belgium.be/en/ for more information.
So you have your ID. This will then be linked to the Central Balance Sheet Office http://www.nbb.be/ where all credits are available for certain institutions (e.g. banks and credit card companies) to see if you are allowed to have a new credit.

e.g. when you already have some credit cards with a too high credit risc, they are NOT allowed to give you more credit. If the address at NBB is not identical to what is on your ID card, your credit will be declined.

Then there is the social security number that will be linked to the master ID as well. However again a separated part, http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIS-kaart which will be replaced by the National ID of the eID.

When you get a new job, what they will ask you is the social security number and your ID-card. Soon this will only be the eID card.

If your eID gets stolen, or it gets lost, you go to the police, who then block the card for further processing.

The system is not water or idiot proof. It is close enough, I would think. Verification of a card is valid or not is easy : https://www.checkdoc.be/CheckDoc/. So if you have any reason to verify an ID card (e.g. rental company, sales entities, ....) they can easily do so. In stores easily with a card reader linked to the above.

Now imagine I am Mr. ID Theft and I steal your ID numbers. I must be very fast in doing everything and hope you did not already call in the ID as stolen. Then I must also pass other standard tests at a company.

Next to this for several things (like opening a credit) you need to get an official signature. Faxing will not work. That means you must either send a letter or go to an office and present yourself.

So all in all, I think it has several advantages (even though not 100% foolproof)
1) Open
2) Transparent
3) Easy to verify and use

e.g. while I typed this message, I regiterd on checkdoc.be and verified my card. It is valid.

In Belgium this is nothing new. We already have it. I hope they will adapt the Belgian type as it is open source, everybody can write programs and/or get a reader to see what is on it.
And with Open Source I mean Windows, Mac and Linux can read your software.
http://eid.belgium.be/en/ and direct link to the developer stuff:
http://eid.belgium.be/en/developing_eid_applications/eid_software_development_kit/
Want an add-on for Firefox? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/belgium-eid/

In Belgium it is already law to have an ID on you.
Besides alcohol control and once running a red light (Got a warning, not a ticket for the red light. Got a key chain for the negative alcohol control) I am one of the few people that I know who has been stopped by police at what looked at random.

I gave my papers, they checked them and then gave them back. A day later I saw them doing the same to a guy who was dressed similar like me the day before with a similar build and haircut, so they were clearly looking for somebody specific.

The only downside at this moment is that the law did not caught up yet. So for many contracts we still need to send in a signed paper. No scanning and no faxing. In other countries the same can be done by a mere phone call.

If they would allow the e-ID as a rightful signature, that would help a lot. The technoligy already exists.

In Belgium this is nothing new. We already have it. I hope they will adapt the Belgian type as it is open source, everybody can write programs and/or get a reader to see what is on it.
And with Open Source I mean Windows, Mac and Linux can read your software.
http://eid.belgium.be/en/ and direct link to the developer stuff:
http://eid.belgium.be/en/developing_eid_applications/eid_software_development_kit/
Want an add-on for Firefox? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/belgium-eid/

In Belgium it is already law to have an ID on you.
Besides alcohol control and once running a red light (Got a warning, not a ticket for the red light. Got a key chain for the negative alcohol control) I am one of the few people that I know who has been stopped by police at what looked at random.

I gave my papers, they checked them and then gave them back. A day later I saw them doing the same to a guy who was dressed similar like me the day before with a similar build and haircut, so they were clearly looking for somebody specific.

The only downside at this moment is that the law did not caught up yet. So for many contracts we still need to send in a signed paper. No scanning and no faxing. In other countries the same can be done by a mere phone call.

If they would allow the e-ID as a rightful signature, that would help a lot. The technoligy already exists.

Laws requiring photo ID to vote only exist to keep poor people from voting.

Then all Belgians must be rich.
Voting is not an option in Belgium, it is a must. Also people must identify themselves with their ID that they must have with them at all times, not just for voting.

OK, appearing to vote is a must, not the voting itself as they could select nobody.

That said, there is e-voting here as well and it STILL is a stoopid idea. What should happen, at least in Belgium, is people show up, get their ID checked and then get 1 paper wich they take into the voting boot and then drop in the box.

The electronic part of the card is open source and can be read by anybody with a reader that can work with Windows, Mac and Linux or any other OS if you write the software. http://eid.belgium.be/nl/ in Dutch and French. Some code at http://code.google.com/p/eid-mw/

As a belgian I feel I should point out that this is not quite correct.

The law is: If you have the belgian nationality or have lived in Belgium for 6 months at the time of your death your organs become available for donation unless: a) you specifically refused this to happen during your life or b) your relatives (children, parents or partner) refuse this.

The only way to make sure your organs become available for donation is by going to the city hall and register yourself as a donor. If you die and one (or more) of your organs match with a patient on the waiting lists a database will be consulted for either your explicit approval or denial. If no entry for you exists your relatives will be asked.

source: Orgaandonatie (Dutch)

Right, maybe it's even more private ;-) From my understanding, ISPs can do a lot for technical reason (network health, ...). It would be difficult for them to justify data rentation as a technical need. Here is the most comprehensive legal document I found on the subject (in french) : http://www.belgium.be/fr/emploi/contrats_de_travail/protection_de_la_vie_privee/controle_des_donnees_electroniques/index.jsp

And what font to you use when you are writing a check out in your checkbook?
And what font will you use when you sign legal documents? Make a bix "X"?

No, no matter what font, you still need a legal signature that is not computer generated?

No you don't. "This application will allow you to electronically sign documents by means of your electronic identity card (eID). First of all, the document you selected will be converted into a PDF document. Then, it will be signed electronically by means of your eID. "

Markoff says it's hard to prove your identity on the internet, and proposes government regulation as a solution.

For this you do not need Internet 2, Internet 1 does this perfectly as the Belgians have proved. Open source and available: http://eid.belgium.be/ Difference is that Belgians already had an identity card with them any way.

Because the ID card was already accepted, it was not a technical solution to a social problem, because the social issue (having an ID card or not) was already dealt with.

Stop making fun at Belgium and follow in their food steps. The readers are available and the source is open Dutch: http://eid.belgium.be/nl/Achtergrondinfo/De_eID_technisch/
Main thing is that you see there are Linux drivers for it.

In Belgium each card has a chip that you can read.
http://eid.belgium.be/nl/Achtergrondinfo/De_eID_technisch/index.jsp for (source)code including Linux.

No need to give a social security number or anything else.

As my Belgian friend said, Belgium is the best example that a government isn't necessary.

But a near 70% income tax rate is still necessary to pay for ... what exactly?

Where did you get that idea? http://www.belgium.be/nl/belastingen/inkomstenbelastingen/particulieren_en_zelfstandigen/aangifte/vestiging_van_de_aanslag/index.jsp (in dutch, but the table should be clear)

The total income tax is always lower than 50%, and there are lots of situations where you get tax deductions...

If you arer talking about Belgium, you can even read what is stored on the card. Software : http://www.belgium.be/zip/eid_datacapture_nl.html

On person who read her own card saw that she was born in 1682. You can buy a reader and write your own application, if you so desire.
The source is available, so go ahead and play with it. :-D

You can also download it from Here: http://software.opensuse.org/search?baseproject=ALL&p=1&q=eid if you run openSUSE

In WWII the Germans introduced the mandatory ID card here in Belgium and in several other countries too. With the liberation of Belgium our government decided to keep the ID card as they thought is was a good idea.

A few years ago the "Eid" was introduced, which is an ID card with limited personal information (name, address & picture) digitally stored onto the chip. Till this day I am not aware of any mayor privacy rights being broken, or identities being stolen or whatnot. Mind you I am the typical paranoia person when it comes to privacy and anonymity.
You can check the official website here: http://eid.belgium.be/en/navigation/12000/index.html

Actually the software to read the cards is open-source and you can make a cheap entry check system with only a card-reader, an embedded system and a database server.

I would worry about all the other crap that is happening around it. I live in Belgiam and have an ID card. Till now it was asked only once by official instances and that was when they were looking for a criminal and I looked VERY similar.

I noticed that they asked a person tw days later who was dressed the same as I was, had a similar build, skintone and hair. It took about 1 minute. This was the only time I have witnessed such a behavious, so they must have been realy, realy realy looking for him.

What would their other options be as I apparently was very close to looking to that guy theyw ere looking for?
a) Ask me and believe me
b) Take me to the policeoffice and actualy arrest me to check my identity to se that I am not the person
c) Wait for the person to turn himself in
d) Do a fast check so I can either be cleared or arrested

I prefere D. Belgium also is putting a chip on the card. You can find the sourcecode on how to read the cards on this site and aln on this non-official site.

The card is not an issue, yet you must understand that it won't be solving anything, exept speed up some work where you need to ID people. Then on the other hand, Belgium and Europe are much more privacy concerned anyway, so THAT is where you should focus on.

What could hapen is dat they will not get the ID card, yet get a system that links everything else together that you have now. I would say: make such a card AND make it so hard to use it, that no person actualy will randomly ask it, unless there is an extremely good reason. So what I am saying is that you should work on privacy and the right to privacy.

Hi Cliff,
In Belgium there is an information campaign to inform non-tech PC users about security. I don't know how good your Dutch or French is but here is the website:
http://www.belgium.be/peeceefobie/
It is all about "Ginette" who is your guide in real 60's style ;-)

Go look what countries think themselves.
Some info in Dutch and French about what the Belgian State Security Service thinks.

(And I plan on taking a plane next friday. :-)

Go look what countries think themselves.
Some info in Dutch and French about what the Belgian State Security Service thinks.

(And I plan on taking a plane next friday. :-)

The articles on the government website in french and dutch.

The articles on the government website in french and dutch.

The articles on the government website in french and dutch.

Oh and for you people who are afraid of what this card can do and everything should be avaialable for everybody and this is so 1984: The source and some Dutch and French info.

SUSE has it as an eID-belgium RPM:

Summary : Software for belgian eID card
Description :
This PKCS11 library can be used for cryptographic operations with the
Belgian electronic identity card. For example, you could use it to
authenticate yourself (e.g. on a web site) or for signing electronic
documents with a legally binding signature.
Distribution: SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586)

Oh and for you people who are afraid of what this card can do and everything should be avaialable for everybody and this is so 1984: The source and some Dutch and French info.

SUSE has it as an eID-belgium RPM:

Summary : Software for belgian eID card
Description :
This PKCS11 library can be used for cryptographic operations with the
Belgian electronic identity card. For example, you could use it to
authenticate yourself (e.g. on a web site) or for signing electronic
documents with a legally binding signature.
Distribution: SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586)

Oh and for you people who are afraid of what this card can do and everything should be avaialable for everybody and this is so 1984: The source and some Dutch and French info.

SUSE has it as an eID-belgium RPM:

Summary : Software for belgian eID card
Description :
This PKCS11 library can be used for cryptographic operations with the
Belgian electronic identity card. For example, you could use it to
authenticate yourself (e.g. on a web site) or for signing electronic
documents with a legally binding signature.
Distribution: SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586)

Verifying age solely on-line is darn near impossible ...

eID. Nearly every Belgian has one.
Just pop it into your cardreader, enter your PIN-code and your age is verified.
Oh it also has digital signing and other neat gizmo's :)

I live in Belgium and I have with me my identity card and my "SIS" card. The first has been asked by me once when police where looking for somebody. It seemed they were looking for somebody who looked like me.

Instead of taking me to the station and all the tests, they just chaecked my papers and all was well.

The other I use if I am at a docter, or buy prescribed medicene. It is there so I get money back. Both are now with a chip set. Want to read what is on them? http://www.belgium.be/zip/eid_datacapture_fr.html Indeed, source code is aailable.

The Belgian government has already taken the step of including an electronic ID on its next-generation identity card. For the price 10 euros, every Belgian (for the card is mandatory, although one does not have to activate the electronic signature option) will get an officially issued card with an encryption key and an electronic signature.

For the government, of course, the benefit is in shifting as much official communication (tax forms etc.) from paper to electronic form. But financial institutions, online shops, etc. are also encouraged to use the eID.

Information on the official eID site is mostly in Belgium's three official languages (which do not include English) but there is extensive information in English on the site of Microsoft Benelux eID.

E-ID

These are the official results from the last elections (I took the results for the European parliament because these are the most recent nationwide results).

http://polling2004.belgium.be/en/eur/results/resul ts_graph_etop.html

What do we see? The combination "CD&V NVA" (two separate parties that form one list for the elections because this has some advantages) gets the most votes with 17,43% of the Belgian votes. The party "Vlaams Blok/Belang" has the second place with 14,34% of the votes. As we can say that both CD&V and NVA represent more than 3% of the votes, it is clear and proved from these results that "Vlaams Blok/Belang" IS the biggest political party in Belgium, wether you like them or not.

Correctness check indeed:

• Jurgen Verstrepen hosted ZwartWit, which aired for several years (Topradio/Kanaal2 1998-2001).
  Easily verified on his curriculum: http://jurgenverstrepen.typepad.com/about.html
• Yes the biggest party in Flanders: http://polling2004.belgium.be/en/vla/results/resul ts_graph_etop.html
  (note that the cartel CD&V+N-VA is composed of two parties and N-VA scores around the electoral threshold of 5%, the reason why they were compelled to form the carte)
  It's quite logical that if you count the French-speaking Walloon part, the VB scores zero. But all other Flemish parties also score zero there, just as all Walloon parties score zero in Flanders. So the argument stands: largest party, in Flanders or even Belgium.

I hope this kind of reality, with URLs included, is better checkable than random assertions.

And again: why should these trivia even play a role in the discussion about the usurpation of dictatorial powers by the Belgian government?

Never thought I would ever read about the van der Beurse family on a foreign site, let alone Slashdot.
For years I lived right across from their building in Bruges, Belgium.
It amazes me because when I told tourists (foreign and domestic) about them nobody had ever heard of them, while they have giving their name to the stock exchange.
Beurs is the Dutch name for stock exchange, but also for fair,... It's the same in French and German. It all originates in the fortheenth century when Bruges was a major European trade hub.
The Italians (from Venice and Genua), Basks, English, ... all had houses (like an embassy/hotel) in the city centre.
The van der Beurses had two inns where traders used to gather to hear the latest and do business, change their currency or buy merchandise and/or businesses
(legal and commercial advise were on hand at the inn).

I wonder how they will manage technical integration and licensing issues... Have a look at the software kit documention and you'll see that it is provided for MS and Linux. The license explicitly specify Third party licenses that apply and the first of these is the...GPL

Time to develop a Jabber extension and get public attention, as fear of pedophilia is a "psychological issue" in the country that has suffered the Dutroux Case. People are REALLY paying attention to chatroom issues, and providing a secure verification of age can be considered a top feature in this case.

Just my 2 cents... Note: I'm french and live in belgium for three years.

At the bottom of this page http://www.belgium.be/eportal/application?origin=s earchResults.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.intern al.refresh&pageid=contentPage&docId=6418[www.belgi um.be] there are a bunch of links to Programmers Guides, Chip contents, how to configure web servers/browsers and source code to the (Windows) middleware.

When I first read the message, my faced turned red. But after looking deeper into the matter, it might be not so bad.

First of all: the eID is there, with open standards. Microsoft is just the first big company that announces a use of it.

The idea of securing chatrooms is, well, a bit strange. But the eID, as the Belgs call it, does allow stuff like electronic voting and online exams, can enhance online banking, doing online business or logging into the server of your work.

The card itself is platform independent. Software for the cardreader is available for Mac, Java and even Linux. There is rather extensive guide (although written in 2003) for using the card together with for example Mozilla (pdf in dutch). Actually, they have made a four-languaged site about the eID

There are catches of course. The Belgs have to look out for identitytheft, although there is a hotline to disable a stolen card. And it would be nice if services that really do not need an online verification, would refrain from using it. (Like browsing in an online shop before you buy anything)

Oh, we do have to give the Belgs a bit more credit. They have Open Sourced their voting software and Open Source is a integrated part of their IT policy.

When I first read the message, my faced turned red. But after looking deeper into the matter, it might be not so bad.

First of all: the eID is there, with open standards. Microsoft is just the first big company that announces a use of it.

The idea of securing chatrooms is, well, a bit strange. But the eID, as the Belgs call it, does allow stuff like electronic voting and online exams, can enhance online banking, doing online business or logging into the server of your work.

The card itself is platform independent. Software for the cardreader is available for Mac, Java and even Linux. There is rather extensive guide (although written in 2003) for using the card together with for example Mozilla (pdf in dutch). Actually, they have made a four-languaged site about the eID

There are catches of course. The Belgs have to look out for identitytheft, although there is a hotline to disable a stolen card. And it would be nice if services that really do not need an online verification, would refrain from using it. (Like browsing in an online shop before you buy anything)

Oh, we do have to give the Belgs a bit more credit. They have Open Sourced their voting software and Open Source is a integrated part of their IT policy.

When I first read the message, my faced turned red. But after looking deeper into the matter, it might be not so bad.

First of all: the eID is there, with open standards. Microsoft is just the first big company that announces a use of it.

The idea of securing chatrooms is, well, a bit strange. But the eID, as the Belgs call it, does allow stuff like electronic voting and online exams, can enhance online banking, doing online business or logging into the server of your work.

The card itself is platform independent. Software for the cardreader is available for Mac, Java and even Linux. There is rather extensive guide (although written in 2003) for using the card together with for example Mozilla (pdf in dutch). Actually, they have made a four-languaged site about the eID

There are catches of course. The Belgs have to look out for identitytheft, although there is a hotline to disable a stolen card. And it would be nice if services that really do not need an online verification, would refrain from using it. (Like browsing in an online shop before you buy anything)

Oh, we do have to give the Belgs a bit more credit. They have Open Sourced their voting software and Open Source is a integrated part of their IT policy.