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Canadians Wary of 'Enhanced Drivers Licenses'
Dr.Merkwurdigeliebe writes ""Enhanced drivers licenses such as those to be issued in B.C. will lay the groundwork for a national identity card", federal privacy commissioner Jennifer Stoddart said yesterday.
Stoddart said the licenses, touted as an alternative to a passport for the purpose of crossing the U.S. border, closely resemble the Real ID program in the United States. She characterized that program as a way of introducing a "type of national identity card" for Americans."
Whould that not be 'wary' instead of 'weary'?
So would those BC residents become americans when they receive this card?
First Post
Brits have resisted ID cards for over 4 decades.
The American RealID will collapse due to the lack of state support (14 refuse to implement, numerous states refuse to fund, not to mention the inevitable protests).
The Chinese have ID cards, and they also have execution vans roaming the countryside acting as judge, jury and executioner, handing out justice at needlepoint.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm
What they don't tell you is china also pulls organs from the bodies.
The Canuk's won't accept an ID card. They have just as many guns and ammo as the US does and they really don't like being screwed with.
It would.
You can get about without a passport or driving license, you can purchase goods without using your SmartCard - but why make life so difficult for yourself when, with just a couple of concessionary biometric measures, you can take the easy path?
There's never any need to convince the masses that something is a good idea; just convince the individual that it's not worth fighting.
Am I preaching? Hell no. When these things get introduced in the UK I'll grumble like hell and offer my vocal support to anyone who opposes the new identity scheme (whatever guise it eventually takes), but at the end of the day...
Meta will eat itself
The article says that these are basically standard licenses, but they include RFID chips.
Is anyone else worried about all these RFID chips that companies and government seem to love putting everywhere? Credit cards? Products? Licenses?
They do realize that RFID is not secure, right? And that anyone with a few bucks can buy or build an RFID reader and cloner? So basically, the validity of your RFID scan is zero. Anyone who can counterfeit a license today will be able to counterfeit a license tomorrow, as long as they do a little research and invest in some extra equipment. It's a business - those who can't (or don't) adapt will die out, and those who do adapt to to the new market will succeed. But it will not be going away any time soon. RFID does not make anything more secure.
Nemilar http://www.techthrob.com - Visit Me!
... just use a passport. I'm surprised the government hasn't thought of this.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
"Weary" sounds like the Canadians have had these things for ages, and are sick of them.
/. headline should be too.
"Wary" means they're distrustful of them, and don't want them to come in.
The linked article certainly uses "wary" so I assume that's what the
And will astronauts need to show theirs at NASA before they allow them off the globe?
God spoke to me.
Isn't it supposed to be spelled "wary"?
Res publica non dominetur
Stop crying you whiny Canadians! In America, we don't worry about such things, as long as we have sports heroes who make $50m/yr that we can still worship and our favorite sit-coms are still on the air and we can still teach our children that the world is 6,000 years old and we can still own machine guns for hunting elk!
news:rec.sport.pro-wrestling
Could someone please explain to me, why Americans, Canadians, Brits and Australians are so afraid of a national ID card?
I live in continental Europe in a country where everyone is expected to be able to identify himself to the police at any time, in a country where there's a central voter register and if you move, you are expected to register yourself with the local town inside of 3 weeks. That sounds like the total police state, doesn't it?
Lets see how this works out in reality:
[b]Identify yourself[/b]: Usually any official document with picture is ok, in reality this means in most cases your driving license - issued nationally, your national ID card or your passport (which many people have anyway to get to the sea in summer). As most Americans have a driving license anyway, this wouldn't change a lot of things for a good part of the population. The issuers of the driving licenses might need do a little more work checking the identity to prevent issues to the wrong name or wrong dates - but this wouldn't affect the common people.
The benefit of having a national ID card on the other hand is, that there's only a small number of documents used commonly and if you have one, you are identified. No more 'Bring 3 types of ID' stuff. You have your driving license, your passport or your ID card, you are set. If those are good enough for the police, they are good enough for everyone else too (eg banks, insurances, airlines).
As those official documents are quite important, forging those, getting those in wrong names or otherwise messing with them is taken very, very seriously by law enforcement. You don't mess around with your driving license just to get some beer before you should (which wouldn't be a problem anyway, once you get a driving license you're also considered old enough to get alcohol), that would send you quite quickly to jail. This improves the general trust in those documents.
At the same time identity theft a lot less of a problem here. If you need to identify yourself, you show one of those documents and everyone is happy. Should, for instance, a bank teller have doubts about your documents, you'll just be invited for a coffee while the police quickly drops by to check your documents. If it clear, fine, if it doesn't you're in deep deep trouble. To try getting around with a fake identity, you immediately raise the stakes to the level of a federal crime, which in most cases isn't worth the risk to small time criminals.
[b]To the police:[/b] So yes, the police may ask you at any time to identify yourself. If not, they can put you in lock-up for some time (similar to the 24 hours available to the American police if one can trust crime shows) to check your identity. In day to day operation, is seems very similar no matter if there's a national ID card scheme or not. If the police doesn't like your face, they can give you a hard time.
For people without ID, there are some procedures to get identified, but those take time and effort. If you happen to be one of the unfortunates without ID, your ID got lost / stolen / whatever, you do it only once to get a temporary replacement before having the new ones issued.
[b]Central voter register:[/b] So wherever you live, you are forced to register yourself inside 3 weeks. This is done mainly for the voter register, to have an idea who can vote in what district, for the tax man and for the police who likes to have a total control over the citizens.
The voter register is a good thing, it makes fraud and manipulation at the time of elections a little harder - you ain't registered officially in the district, you ain't going to vote for it.
The tax man is unfortunately very unavoidable. No matter if there's a national ID card or not, Mr. Tax man will own you and your data - in Soviet Russia and everywhere else too.
The police might have it a little easier to start up to indulge in their totalitarian police state fantasies if they have a national ID card. But if they don't they just dig into the d
I know drivers' licences are a very popular route for governments to introduce national ID schemes. Put pity the poor citizen who can't/doesn't drive. Will the end result of these be non-drivers effectively becoming non-citizens?
All passports, drivers licenses and identity cards have been harmonized to one standard coming from dozens and dozens of different ones. And we're proud of it. We may still speak many different languages, we have common goals.
Because the ID card act is really about creating a centralised government database that stores all information about you in one place. Not just personal information either - this would be every electronic record that exists about you, like what you buy and where you travel. Some people think this would be overly intrusive, that it would give too much power to the authorities, and that the data might be stolen or lost. (You might remember some recent news stories about government data being lost: this happens quite often.)
However, most people do not understand about the database and do not care about the ID cards, so people who think it's a good idea are in luck. I guess we will see the consequences in twenty years time.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
Whould that not be 'wary' instead of 'weary'?
You're eating hair!
If you read the US Constitution, that nice document the current US government ignores, you will see the seeds of government distrust in the US. Simply put, the Founding Fathers knew that governments become corrupt and they sought to head it off at the start, the Constitution defines the rights the people give to government, not what government gives to the people. It puts strict limits on how the government can act. The states were to be powerful entities in their own right.
Unfortunately our courts were supposed to protect us from the government making laws unconstitutional but they failed. Instead being government cronies themselves they let the government run the public and states over. Combined with the public being given the ability to vote for Senators and states lost their ability to oppose the government.
Doesn't mean the people gave in. While many are just fine and dandy with taking government handouts they don't want them in their house. A national id is like inviting them in. Once their in they will suddenly show up for dinner telling you what you can eat, telling you what you can watch or listen too, let alone eventually telling you what doctor your allowed to see.
We give up too much of our freedom already. We do not need a National ID card to prevent erroneous entry on documents we fill out during our days. We certainly don't need a one size fits all easy to create fradulent versions to further identity theft.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Boohoo, there's a piece of paper telling who I am and where I live! I'm being repressed! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
I'm sorry, but when did the US annex British Columbia?
OK, I will admit that as a Canadian I have insisted over the years that Canadians are part of America too (as are Mexicans and all residents of Central and South America), the word "America" to describe just the United States is not appropriate, and that "Americans" should get their own damned name for their nationality. However I don't think the summary is trying to make that specific point.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
The "leaders" of the free world have been given instructions to implement ID cards by... 2020 or so.
Deleted
Where do the mercenaries (A-Team!!) fit in?
which is totally what she said
Luckily, I don't drive.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
Never, ever, trust the word "enhanced."
This word is used whenever the person selling you something that he claims in better in some nebulous way that he can't quite describe in detail. The speaker is almost certainly hiding the fact that either 1. there is nothing actually better about the "enhanced" thing, or 2. the "enhanced" thing is actually worse in some way.
The next time someone tells you something is "enhanced" ask him exactly HOW it's better. Details!
Who gets paid the most for these items: the person who made them, or the CEO of the company?
What do rich (sensible) people do with lots of money? Invest. Which means either loaning it to poor people and taking more money back off them (which is trickle up) or buy property (increasing the cost of housing, trickle up), or investing in a new company (which money mostly goes to the CEO and BoD, who (if it fails) will still have a job lined up, unlike the workers, who will be laid off first). Trickle up.
That's why the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger, the more money you have, the more you want to make off it, and with a limited money supply, that mostly comes from people without other options: poorer people.
Somehow when I first read the headlines, I imagined a scheme whereby a company like NVIDIA strips most of the features out of its video drivers then starts calling the full-featured drivers "enhanced" and forces users to pay a premium for them.
I'm just curious as to what bank allowed you to open an account without presenting identification in the US? At a minimum it is federally required for FDIC instutuion for taxation.
Also in the US:
(2&3) Typically for municipality services, identification is required to open an account. Not necessarily so if it's a corporation though (definately the minority) - thout they typically will to prevent unauthorized charges to propery owners.
(4) Most apartment complexes will require a credit and potentially a backround check to minimize liability. What you encountered by not having to show identification is not the norm.
And since we won't have the key, we won't even be able to read what's on our own cards. Unless the key gets leaked somehow...09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
The US and China use the exact same method of execution. Just that China is more honest and kills all its people who commit crimes, not just blacks.
Since they both use the same method your logic kinda falls apart to link this with any ID card system.
As for them roaming the country side, no they are just used to avoid having the cost of building facilities at all locations, they are no different from the US system where apparently the state has found the money to introduce them in its facilities. The vans are just a method, they could just as easily perhaps have chosen to make one central facility to which all condemned are transported. A death factory, not sure what would cause more of an outcry.
So you have two countries, both of which execute people in a highly contested way, often with a lot of questions about the legallity of the trial. Is it a coindence that the majority of convicts in the US is black and/or poor?
If anything I think the Chinese method is to be preffered, how many millionairs has the US executed? If you are going to have the death penalty, then I prefer to have the implementation that has all walks of life walking to their death, not just those to poor to defend themselves.
As for political prisoners, you mean the ones China calls terrrorists? When are we going to get a look at what really happens in Quatonmo? Where the US houses its political prisoners?
Pot, meet kettle. My aren't you two black.
Also note that most EU countries have a national ID card, and NO death penalty and far better records on the subject of human rights then both the US and China.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Within a relatively short span of time the United States, the United Kingdom and now Canada have tried to push national identity cards that would be required for all citizens to move about and use government services. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this feels extremely fishy. Taking off the conspiracy theory hat for a moment, perhaps this is a coincidence: the state of technology is global, and may have caused techies in three governments to reach similar, parallel conclusions about what sort of ID system is possible, causing a convergence of similar issues. Additionally, I may have heard about these three in particular because they're all English-speaking countries (apologies to the good people of Quebec) and I read sites like Slashdot.
On the other hand, putting the hat on my head very tightly, perhaps the Trilateral Commission is working with the Illuminati to reshape the balance of global power and push us to fearfully allow our governments to herd us around like RFID-tagged sheep.
The truth is probably in between those extremes.
How sad is it that the first thing I thought when I read the headline was that it had something to do with some new license restriction on hardware drivers.
Posting anon due to moderation, but I ain't no yeller-belly! I am Canadian, though. I guess that's almost as bad.
Every step, every association is watched on cctv.
There is no England, only Orwell's Oceana.
"What say the reeds of Runneymede?"
i still just don't get it. how is this going to harm you? how many forms of id do you currently have? probably 3 or 4 (SSN, DL, Birth Certificate, Passport). When you are asked for ID do you piss and moan about your lack of privacy? no, you show the nice lady at the bank your DL. Do you really think that all of this data is not A) Already out there and B) readily accessible? The particular fear is that "the government" is going to see this information and use it to "get you". Does creation of a national ID somehow circumvent the constitution? Unreasonable search and seizure? Wouldn't they still require probable cause and a warrant to obtain this information? hey, some "government" guy can call my HMO and demand my records. Doesn't mean the HMO is going to provide them. are you really suggesting that "the government" is going to take all those millions of databases and merge them into some uber-base? if NOT then what changes? it is still the responsibility of the owner of the data to limit access to those with a legitimate and legal need for it.
And another thing... is it not in your best interest to have a single, verifiable identifier linked to you as an individual? it's gonna suck for you when during a search for "joe smith the serial killer" a duplicate record points the cops in YOUR direction. hope you're ready to provide some identification. I have a friend who has the same name as her mother. When she goes to apply for loans etc. her mothers information shows on HER credit report. this is despite giving her own SSN. Now, her mother has great credit, so it works in her favor that shes got 60 years of cars, houses, credit cards etc., but it could just as easily go the other way and keep her from getting those same things.
anyway, i still don't understand the paranoia. it's not just related to details like RFID, it's the entire CONCEPT that bugs people. Hey, we don't need no stinkin papers to have an oppressive, murdering government. It's happened without ID many times.
So, first one, then the other.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Give us separate cards. All cards should be hard to counterfeit and be self-authenticating using a digital signature, or easily authenticated by a database lookup. All issuing authorities would keep copies of supporting documentation for the life of the card. All cards that merely proved identity would be free of charge with the cost paid for out of general tax revenue.
1) State- or other-country-issued birth certificate or affidavit of birth, just like today. The main purpose of this is to obtain other ID and for children to enroll in school. Would include a thumbprint or other biometric data. Free.
2) State-issued identity card, instead of today's driver's license, similar to what non-drivers have today. Free.
3) State-issued driver's license. This would not be an ID, only proof you passed the driver's test and paid the DL fee. NOT free. You drive, you pay.
4) Proof of citizenship card. This could be like today's voter registration card but it would have your identity-card or other proof-of-identity-card number on it. Free.
5) Taxpayer-Identification Number/Social Security card. This would not be an ID and would serve very little useful purpose other than for taxation and SS claims once the proof of citizenship card got rolled out. It would not prove citizenship or a right to work. Free.
6) Passport. NOT free. You travel abroad, you pay, just like today. Proves ID and citizenship.
7) Mini-passport/border crossing card - not needed, serves same purpose as 2 and 4 together.
Children would have a birth certificate and probably a Taxpayer ID/Social Security card.
Children who travel by air would probably have a state ID card and a proof of citizenship card.
Adults would have these plus a driver's license, passport, and/or mini-passport.
There is one flaw in all of these:
If any of them rely on a previous document that was not authenticated, they can be used for fraud. For example, today I can use a stolen birth certificate to assume someone else's identity and use that to get a passport and from that just about anything else. As long as the ID theft victim doesn't do anything to arouse suspicion then I'm in the clear. People who died as children before SS cards were required for tax deductions make excellent victims.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's trivial to make an unforgeable ID card.
Just put an image of the ID card on the mag-stripe on the back and have that image digitally signed by the issuing authority.
If you think the ID is bogus, scan the card, compare the image on the screen to the card, and verify the signature. If the signature doesn't match the image or the image doesn't match the card, it's bogus. If the card doesn't match the person it's stolen.
Under this scheme only look-alikes will be able to successfully use stolen ID cards if the person examining them bothers to check them.
I realize today's mag-stripes can't hold the amount of data necessary but with other technology it's do-able.
By the way, for people like police and airport-security who can afford real-time lookups to 50 state databases, it should be easy enough to "run the license" and make sure it's authentic. This is doable today with no changes in the physical licenses. This isn't practical for other uses like serving alcohol though.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
> Stoddart said the licenses, touted as an alternative to a passport for the purpose of crossing the U.S. border As long as it's still an 'alternative', it is not mandatory. We simply need to analyze our options and choose wisely before crossing the border. Maybe they'll get the hint and scrap the idea.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
An authentic SS card is not proof of identity.
All it proves is that:
* The person named on the card has a [supposedly]-unique number issued by the government
* You have a right to work in the United States
It does not prove that the person carrying the card is you.
For government- and certain financial transactions, a photo-ID such as a driver's license or passport that has the same name is usually required. In other private transactions that require a SS#, your signature, a current address, and a credit check are frequently required. If your current address doesn't match an address listed on the credit report it can raise a red flag.
Now, there are ways to fraudulently obtain passports, driver's licenses, and social security cards, but that's another issue entirely.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
In the summary, the privacy commissioner is not referring to the BC program as a type of national ID card for Americans. Here is part of the summary that you left out of your quote, that shows that she is saying that the US "Real ID" program is a type of national ID card for Americans.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
One difference between the "enhanced" driver's licences in Canada and the US "Real ID" program is that "Real ID" is a standardization and centralization imposed by the US federal government on the US states, but the driver's licence changes in some places in Canada are independent initiatives of some provinces.
In British Columbia and Ontario, the provincial government wants to introduce licences that are more secure and that contain citizenship information, so they will be accepted by the US and Canadian border officials as acceptable ID. Interestingly, some border states in the US are talking about making similar changes, even ones that reject Real ID, like Washington State.
Because driver's licences are a provincial jurisdiction but citizenship information is a federal area, these provinces have had to go to the Government of Canada and get permission to have access to people's citizenship information, since such sharing cannot happen automatically under current privacy laws.
If this is the extent of the changes, then I don't see it as a problem. If, additionally, some of these provinces are making it possible to access other personal information using the cards, then I can understand the concern. And if they are also sharing some of these databases with the US, then that is very bad. I honestly don't know if the governments have said they'll do these additional, concerning things or not.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
feed://www.wired.com/news/feeds/rss2/0,2610,,00.xml - see Mr. Know-It-All summary
Instead, they can expend their energy trying to determine if individuals who aren't pre-cleared are suspect.
(Nexus takes it one step further, as I don't even have to interact with a border agent, saving gobs of cash!)
They should pay *us* for helping them save money, not the other way around.
So no, I won't get an enhance British Columbia driver's license, nor a Nexus card.
A Domestic Passport. Calling it that seems to get peoples' attention more when debating the topic.
So far, I've actually met a couple people who are big fans of Real ID, and it frankly scares me.
Shouldn't it say weary insted of wary?
This it isn't just about an ID card. Even in this initially modest conception, the system requires a database to keep tabs on everyone, a massive infrastructure to collect peoples' details, and a network to verify people against their cards and the database. This presents a tempting & convenient source of data - its use will grow to more than just a licence for border crossing. There has almost never been a government system of this type that hasn't vastly expanded from its original purpose (eg. Social Insurance Numbers were originally just for pensions & some limited employment insurance programs, and we still live with the temporary measure introduced to fund World War I known as "income taxes")
Besides the fact that this system will undoubtedly cost lots of money to implement and add another layer of beauracracy, and besides the fact that its purposes are already well served by strong identification systems already in place (the Permanent Resident's Card, the Citizenship Card, current Drivers Licences, and above all, Passports) it will be hacked in no time. No electronic system is completely secure, in fact there has never been an electronic system invented in widspead use that hasn't been cracked and exploited, including RFID systems. We can assume that these will be freely readable to anyone with a reader from 30m away. Like credit card readers, these RFID readers will become widely available (on the open market) as these ID cards become more popular.
Let us not even consider the obvious temptation of putting people's biometic ID on these cards - an identity theft nightmare. Even if the only RFID tag on the card is a unique ID number that authorities use to look you up on a secure database - and assuming this RFID database remains both secure AND within the jurisdiction of Canadian privacy laws - the cards will still be widely exploited for criminal use. It's easy: scan everyone's ID driving down a residential street, then come back another night and scan again to see who's home. It's not just break-ins that are facilitated, but stalking people becomes much easier for those so inclined. Some say that we should just leave our ID cards at home or carry them in a "Faraday cage wallet" if we're paranoid about these types of things, but they forget that the more widespread ID cards are in use, the less you can do without them: as their utility increases, so does the pressure to use and carry one (even if you don't like borrowing, it's impossible to live in today's soceity without a credit card, for example) And sorry, people won't get a Faraday cage for their cards. Criminals will have a field day.
Canadians are far more distrustful of their government than Americans or Europeans are of theirs, and this is a good thing. It is a fact that has generally served Canadians well in defence of their liberties and privacy rights so far. But the pressure from foreign sources to implement these types of systems in Canada is intense - Canada has now acquiesced to handing over air passenger lists to the US government, for example (the agreement is not reciprocal). This system will be widely implemented in BC and then the rest of Canada unless action is taken. It's not futile: opposition to such systems worked in Australia 20 years ago and looks like NO2ID is winning over the UK. Write your MP and provincial representative if you value your freedom.
Write Your BC MLA
http://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-1.htm
Write Your Member of Parliament
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/house/PostalCode.asp
Vote for those that are clearly wary of these dangerous ID systems.
(And "would" instead of "whould". The Pedantry Curse strikes again. The only way to avoid it is to deliberately make a mistake like I did in the subject.)
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
If the BC government claims the primary motivation for these "upgraded" driver's licenses is to offer expedited travel across the Canadian-US border, then I call bullshit. A separate program for expedited border crossing already exists, and it is available to any Canadian or American who wants it, not just residents of B.C. It's simple. If (and only if) you want faster border crossing, you opt-in, and you get a special card that you can swipe at any land crossing, and you get to take a special car lane.
I see absolutely no justification in forcing this on EVERY driver in the province regardless of their travel intentions.
I can only speak as an American, but we're not afraid of the ID card in and of itself, they're afraid that it will be used to make the government more powerful and intrusive than it already is.
:/
If you know anything about the American government right now, I think you should be able to appreciate why we think that's a bad thing.
Honestly, at this point, one of the few things they could do that would make me feel any safer would be to disband the DHS
You are fact-challenged bucko!
Your first point, that no-one ever needs to get a birth certificate, is wrong.
I'm Canadian, and a few years ago when applying for a passport, I found that my birth certificate with a nice waxed seal from the town clerk where I was born in Canada a few kilometers and from where I have lived for all the intervening decades, was no longer legal. Had to get a new one, by going across town and paying something like 60$.
Something about being too easy to falsify, not computerized, old record keeping systems. Not my fault at all, and affects the entire population of my province, afaict.
Your second point about social insurance numbers (SIN). It is illegal for the federal government to ask for your social insurance number for anything except taxes and income (such as employment insurance.) Your bank is only allowed to use it for the purpose of preparing tax forms. If they make a database with the SIN as an index, they can be prosecuted, it's illegal. Same goes for your employer. It's illegal to have a database with the SIN as a key.
Statistics canada? Cannot ask for your SIN. You want to apply for grant to insulate your home, that would be Industry Canada, they aren't allow to ask you for your SIN, and besides, it would be much use because the tax people aren't allowed to share any information they have indexed by your SIN. So they would still have to ask for your full name, distinguishing birthmarks, address and confirmation of your income to see if you qualify anyways.
No city government has any legal justification for knowing your SIN. No video rental store is allowed to ask you for your sin, although many do. You are not required to give them your SIN, and it is illegal for them to withhold services if you don't.
Provincial governments have the same restrictions as the federal one. So while the tax men know it, If you apply for a grant for the arts. they do ask you for your SIN, but it is illegal to use it as a key in a database, and it is illegal for the various departments to share what they know.
If you are arrested, the police are not allowed to use your SIN, except to investigate your income and tax records. They cannot use it as an index in any database. That would be illegal. Notice that the passport office doesn't ask for your SIN, but they want to know that you have valid ID, and a SIN card is OK. They cannot use the SIN in their database either. that would be... you guessed it, illegal.
It was the express intent of the people who made these laws to prevent the construction of a key to all information in all the government about a person. It has succeeded, so you have to tell every single department all this other information about yourself and provide multiple pieces of ID. The inconveniences of the grandfather post are the natural result of the intentional policy, and not at all a delusion.
Houh!
I find yor coumments rather stoupid.
.
- aqk
F U
I guess they are acceptable as long as they do not include age. We have a Canadian law that prevents job employment discrimination based on age. It is circumvented by asking for existing drivers license, which provides age in the clear. Same information is on our Government Hospital card. All digits but the units digit of the year should be masked.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Australia overwhelmingly rejected a national ID card scheme in the eighties, for all the usual reasons.
We don't have a national id card.
Instead we now have licenses with photos. And, slowly, but surely, it is becoming impossible to "be normal" without your ID (and having it recorded.
You need your ID (and it is recorded) whenever you:
* post a package
* open a bank account
* drive a car (used to be "produce a license at the cop shop in 24h")
* are stopped in the street (defacto, if not de jure. Failure to produce ID is considered to be "obstruction" and grounds for further "assistance with our inquiries")
* fly
* open a library account
* book accomodation in a state or federal park
In addition, private corporations have decided that they need to get into the action. Recently I wanted to change a bunch of $20s into $100s. The teller asked for my driver's license!
And these are just the ones I've personally run into. I don't own firearms or buy large quantities of fertilisers - these have their own licenses.
Hmm.
Let's see.
Faulty:
Chips,
Chip readers,
Cops/operators with an attitude and/or (but mot limited to)
Input of erroneous or wrong information on the master database -
means?
You are screwed for a long, long time.
RR
The US Passport Card and the Washington State enhanced drivers license are shipping with the Identity Stronghold Secure Sleeve. BC should do the same. While in this sleeve no one can read the RFID chip contained within. You can buy them at their website too if you wish. http://www.idstronghold.com/.