Teen Sues MySpace Over Sexual Assault

kaufmanmoore writes "A 14-year old is suing myspace for $30 million claiming the site failed to protect her from a 19-year old she met through the site. The suit claims that MySpace doesn't verify a user's identity or age and doesn't do enough to protect users."

Comments

What they need.

[OverlordQ]

Dont they have an "Complete Moron" clause somewhere that says idiots cant sue for being terminally stupid.

Re:What they need.

[sycotic]

heh, $30,000,000 USD is a bit outlandish.

what a dreamer!

Re:What they need.

[HugePedlar]

Or even a "parental responsibility" clause. Why did her parents allow her to meet a total stranger without supervision? And why does Myspace have any more responsibility than ANY other community-based website or bulletin board?

Re:What they need.

[jmv]

I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than that. Unlike 10-15 years ago, at least half of people with Internet access would probably fall into your definition of "complete moron" (and remember that you're probably a complete moron about at least one thing). At some point, "something" will have to be done because "bad guys" tend to learn/adapt faster than "complete morons". Should the solution be to make sites responsible (I hope not)? Have an "Internet license" (with a test required like for a driver's license? I've no idea what form it will have and I hope it won't do more damage than it causes, but eventually things will have to change. I guess teens in the ~12-16 range are especially vulnerable because:
1) You can't monitor everything they do on the Internet anymore
2) There's still a lot of things they don't know (but should)
3) They think they know enough

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, this guy online said he was going to do me in the butt and then he did me in the butt. someone owes me 30 million.

Re:What they need.

[lukas84]

Then tell them.
Make them aware.

I'am 22 now, and have been using the Internet since i was eleven (back then with 14.4k). My parents didn't understand what i was doing, but i educated myself on using the internet. I learned that forging e-mails was trivial business, that everyone could say everything he wanted, and that it was easy to mimic someones elses behaviour.

Kids in this day and age usually have it better. The internet has become common place, there are less and less families without broadband internet access. Parents should be able to teach their kids what the internet is about, and make them aware of what can be done, technically.

Now, i don't mean the usual "STAY AWAY, IT IS DANGEROUS" crap. That doesn't work. Show them what is actually possible, and let them draw their own conclusions.

Yes, it means parents will have to LEARN TO UNDERSTAND the technology their kids use. But so is life. Educating kids never was an easy task, and probably never will be. It requires alot of time and effort.

If you have neither, don't have kids.

Re:What they need.

[jintxo]

For that matter, they could have hooked up over the phone or whatever other means you can think of (so all of a sudden ATT or whomever would have to verify age/identity of caller???). I don't really think Myspace has anything to do with this.

Cedric

Re:What they need.

[RobotRunAmok]

And why does Myspace have any more responsibility than ANY other community-based website or bulletin board?

Right. Beacause community-based websites and bulletin boards have been around for such a long time, and there are so-o-o-o-o many legal challenges and precedents in that space.

Face it: The MySpace cesspool is in danger of leaking out and poisoning the well of community-based boards everywhere; the pure, crystal clear waters of SlashDot and its ilk are not going to have a cleansing effect, legal or otherwise, on MySpace.

I am seeing activism on the grass roots level against MySpace like I haven't seen since the early 90's (the kind of awareness that laid the groundwork for all the online child protection legislation). If the "good" community spaces are smart, they will toss MySpace out into the snow with extreme prejudice then circle the wagons before the Clintons and the Liebermans and all the other politicos up for re-election start painting them with the same brush they are currently tarring-up for MySpace.

Right or Wrong, there is a BIG RECKONING coming, and it WILL be impacting business models throughout the 'Net.

My Prediction, based on historical precedent? MySpace goes the way of GeoCities (socially un-cool and retro), and the kids all start gravitating to their own (and de-centralized) unique TLDs, just like their neo-adult blogging counterparts.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

"3) They think they know enough"
Man, she knows what she is doing. She is sueing a website for 30 million $. I wish I could do the same thing (and win, of course).
By the way, is she sueing the guy who deceived her? I doubt it. He is the one who bears more responsability, but most likely he has not 30 million $.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

It requires alot of time and effort.

Sometimes, sadly, that effort is wasted.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not about the internet. No internet knowledge is required to avoid a situation like this. The girl didn't get assaulted over the internet, she went on a date with the guy IN REAL LIFE. Only knowledge needed is real life knowledge like "don't go out with a stranger", "don't trust a stranger" and "make sure there's always someone else around who can help you, unless you're strong enough to handle the situation yourself. The last one isn't even children-specific, everyone should know that.

Re:What they need.

[Adult film producer]

Sorry about this mate, but she told me she was 18 years old. Even showed me a drivers licence.. She looks at least 18.... Next time I'll call myspace.com and verify the girls age instead!

Re:What they need.

[lukas84]

Hmm, wrong.

You can't get assaulted over the internet, period.

However, after chatting with someone, or even on the phone, one without understanding of technology might come to the conclusion that you're no longer talking to a stranger. And that's where their logic is flawed, and where the problem lies.

The more cynical observation would be that they are just to stupid.

Re:What they need.

[uglyduckling]

You can't monitor everything they do on the Internet anymore

Yes... you can. Seriously, I really don't buy this. It's part of a growing idea (certainly in Britain) that it's impossible to parent properly and monitor what children get up to, and it's an absolute myth. Up until the age of about 11 or 12 children should have no guaranteed privacy in terms of what they say and do, and if they've been used to loving oversight for all of their lives they won't have a problem with this. Sure, they can have conversations with their friends, but parents should be aware of what's going on and step in if something isn't right.

They should be gradually introduced to having independent passtimes and activities - like a Scout group or sports team - but understand that they are supervised by the adult that's in charge there. Only when they're entering their teens should they start to do any activities really on their own, and to begin with they should be clearly definined things like meeting some friends for a milkshake and then picked up again in the car. By the time they hit mid-teens they should be responsible enough to go and do things without running everything past mom and dad, but always know that they can come and talk about any problems.

The idea that a 14 year-old girl can meet a 19 year-old man without parents being aware until afterwards should raise questions about the parents' responsibility (neglect is a form of child abuse, although I don't know enough details to allege that in this case).

Where does the Internet fit into this? Web usage should follow the same pattern: a 14 year-old saying "I'm using the Internet" is even less specific than saying "I'm going to the mall" - in both cases the answer should be "no you're not". If they say "I'm just messaging Jane" then 20 minutes later they should be asked "are you still messaging Jane - why not invite her over for dinner if you're talking for so long?" If they're researching something for school then that's what they should stick to. Social time on the 'net should be limited and checked. If they abuse trust and lie about what they're doing then it should be withdrawn for a period of time.

This may sound terribly draconian but I think it's the only way to bring up children safely and with an understanding of what's right and safe and what's wrong and dangerous. I spent hours on the computer alone as a child, but we didn't have a modem and my parents knew what software was there. I also spent hours in the street playing with friends, but my parents knew every other parent on the street and it was a quiet cul-de-sac. Things have changed now, and it's not safe to let children play outside alone, and neither is it safe for them to play on the Internet alone. If parents aren't available to supervise then the children can't play in the street; if they can't supervise the 'net then it should be unplugged or password protected until they can.

Re:What they need.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

And why does Myspace have any more responsibility than ANY other community-based website or bulletin board?

Because they have more money to sue for.

Re:What they need.

[MrNougat]

When I was a kid, we would gather phone numbers off of pay phones at the mall, then go home and call those numbers. Once, a teenage girl answered. Somehow, my group of friends and her group of friends managed to exchange all sorts of personal information (though we never actually met, because my group of friends was a bunch of losers). Honestly, it would be easy enough to do the same kind of thing by calling cell phones today.

Re:What they need.

[Just_a_Girl81]

just another idiot trying to place blame with someone else.

Re:What they need.

[ameoba]

If I (hypothetically) were a minor and committed a major act of vandalism or property crime, my parents would be held liable for the damages because, as a minor, they are responsible for my actions. If, as a minor, I manage to get a credit card by forging my parent's permission and run up a large number of purchases & fail to pay them, my parents would be held liable. If I commit fraud, agree to a EULA that asserts that I am of a given age, why are they no longer responsible for my actions?

This is exactly the kind of story that should be covered in an afterschool special. If the family wants money, sell the story, to hell with the courts.

Personally, I think the family should be told to stuff it and she should be made an example of by the media as the stupid little slut she is. These stupid little girls need to be told, harshly, that trying to manipulate scuzzy guys with sex can very well get them hurt (or even killed). Instead, whenever it happens, the girls are never at fault and are always "good girls" who were unfairly victimized and could never do anything wrong - regardless of how trashy & loose they were.

A great example is this highschool girl from my hometown - she was dating a 30ish drug dealer several cities away for some time. As girls her age are prone to do, she grew tired of him and decided to break up with him. As they are also prone to do, they are petty & vindictive towards ex-boyfriends, and threatened to turn him in. As bigtime drugdealers are prone to do, he kidnapped her, beat her & eventually executed her, burying her body in a shallow grave in the mountains. Media response? Obviously she was pure, innocent & unfairly victimized by a complete monster. Not that she could -ever- have any idea that bad things could happen to her for sleeping with a man twice her age in exchange for meth...

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sanity Clause :-D

Re:What they need.

[KiloByte]

$0.01 would be grossly outlandish, too.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

remember that you're probably a complete moron about at least one thing

No. Everybody is ignorant about plenty of things, but this takes a lack of common sense. Common sense should tell you things like "not everybody tells the truth all the time" and "there are bad people in the world". That kind of sense should be common to everybody. And yet it's lacking in this teenager.

Re:What they need.

[AGMW]

it's not safe to let children play outside alone

I'd say I agree with pretty much everything you say, but ...

I really don't think it's any less safe for kids to play outside than it used to be. Incidents (a very non-specific term for the unpleasent events that do occur) are far more widely reported these days, and mostly, I fear, because it sells newspapers. The news reporting seems to be trying to scare the population into becoming hermits. If you don't lock your doors, arm yourself (esp. in the US), wrap your kids in cotton wool, and buy tomorrow's newspaper (!) you won't be safe!

Most of the problem of stupid teenagers is because they haven't been able to learn from their mistakes earlier in life because they are simply not allowed to take risks. It must be tough to let your kids out of your sight when you hear all the truely awful stories of what "sometimes" happens, but the children are missing out on part of their development and this is what makes them think it's OK for them to wander off with a 19 year old when they are 13 or 14. If they'd had some exposure to the real world when they were 8, 9, 10 they'd more than likely realise that there's something suspicious about a 19 year old wanting to spend time with a 13 or 14 year old!

Re:What they need.

[flumps]

Up until the age of about 11 or 12 children should have no guaranteed privacy in terms of what they say and do, and if they've been used to loving oversight for all of their lives they won't have a problem with this.

Man it's Nazis like you that take a childs trust and piss all over it - I don't care if you are dressing it up in nicey nicey language and giving a couple of half-assed exceptions to your draconian behavior. I give my child the privacy he wants, he respects me and listens to what I say and then he does it too.

I warn him of the consequence, which is all I can do, and if he fucks up then its his fault. He knows he can talk to me if he does, he can talk to me about anything. I'm not going to start taking that freedom away and locking up his television/computer/bike when I dont think its right for him.

Thats called LEARNING. You cannot cotton ball children, or chain them up and make them do what you want. They will just end up resenting you and then before you know it (because they won't tell you) they will be hooked up with some druggy taking herion.

The next thing you'll know, mr/miss, is they're face'll be on the news found dead somewhere.

Good luck, you're going to need it.

Re:What they need.

[PengiunWilly]

man, i agree that she is a little bit dump and tries to make money out of it. But she is only 14, so i guess that wasn't a "nice" fuck (it isn't sure it was a rap, btw). Think before you write!

Re:What they need.

[packeteer]

In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19.

Sexual assualt is not ok but mark this one up as being younge and stupid. If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you. This does not mean that what the boy did was acceptable but anyone slightly mature would realize what they are giving the impression they are going to do by going to his house. The girl involved is partially responsible only becuase she is younge. When i saw this i mean it like someone is responsible for their own mugging if they walk through a bad neighborhood at night. This lawsuit is rediculous becuase MySpace is where they met, not where the crime happened.

This is like suing the a mall where two teenagers meet before one purpetrates sexual assault on the other. This is rediculous and the only reason the suit is happening can be summed up from this line:
"Founded in 2003, MySpace has more than 80 million registered users worldwide and is the world's third most-viewed Web site, according to the lawsuit."

Basically MySpace seems like a good target becuase of its success. Another funny thing here is the $30m figure. You cant even sue someone for that much in worse crimes than sexual assault where the girl is partially at fault.

Re:What they need.

[realnowhereman]

I agree with you in principle: these girls are not the innocents they are made out to be (in fact, children in general are a lot less innocent than the media would have us believe - try shifting some tresspassing nine year olds and they will all shout "you can't do anything to me, I'll say you hit me"). However, I think that the punishment of death for being petty and vindictive is a little extreme. She should have known better, yes, but that doesn't mean she deserves death.

Re:What they need.

[jmv]

Up until the age of about 11 or 12 children should have no guaranteed privacy in terms of what they say and do...

I suppose you read the part of my post that mentioned the 12-16 range, right? Starting around 12 yo, you can't just check everything they do.

This may sound terribly draconian but I think it's the only way to bring up children safely and with an understanding of what's right and safe and what's wrong and dangerous.

You don't have kids, do you?

Re:What they need.

[jmv]

They say "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog". If you're not really careful, it's easy to get tricked by someone pretending to be someone else. It happens in real-life, but the Internet makes it *much* easier. For example, I can easily pretend to be an 18-year old teen online, but in real-life people might be much less easily tricked. Same goes for phishing. I can easily pretend to be Bank XYZ online, but I'd have a much harder time opening a fake branch without attracting attention.

Re:What they need.

[aronc]

His point isn't that she deserved it. It's that by painting her as a pure innocent and glossing over the fact that she was engaging in some obviously stupid and dangerous behavior does a disservice to the rest of the community. Incident like that should scream to the rest of the kids in the community that hanging out with that kinda of person and that kind of lifestyle can get you hurt or killed. Instead the news/family paints it as a nearly random kidnapping more often than not.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

and when in the earth some 19 yo male will get a girl from school, treat her with a meal and go out for movies with her, and DO NOTHING? this girl is plain stupid.

there are two things in the world that is infinite
(1) the universe
(2) human stupidity

suing myspace for this kind of sexual assault is similar to suing DARPA for it

fuck the girl!

Re:What they need.

[space_in_your_face]

This is like suing the a mall where two teenagers meet before one purpetrates sexual assault on the other.
Yes, if you assume that the mall gives you the opportunity to lie about your age, your sex, your face... I don't know if the guy lied in this case, but if he did, then MySpace has a responsability.

Re:What they need.

[Il128]

"If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you." No. They. Aren't.

Re:What they need.

[jbreckman]

Yeah, but MySpace is no less safe than meeting in a chat room or on AIM - it's just that MySpace gives the users the opportunity to fill out an age field. On AIM, he would have had to lie himself. I don't see why that distiction would cause MySpace to have more responsibility than a normal chat room.

Re:What they need.

[PhraudulentOne]

How about talking to someone in person? Does that allow you to hide your age? She says MySpace should have protected her by age verification, etc. SHE MET THE GUY FACE TO FACE. She then wen't out with him, had dinner, etc. So, she is suing MySpace for not verifying age, yet she couldn't verify his age herself, MEETING FACE TO FACE. How is this the fault of MySpace again?

    If they meet on MySpace, that's one thing, but if they want to go and meet in person, no website in the world is responsible for that.

Re:What they need.

[potat0man]

Only knowledge needed is real life knowledge like "don't go out with a stranger", "don't trust a stranger" and "make sure there's always someone else around who can help you, unless you're strong enough to handle the situation yourself. The last one isn't even children-specific, everyone should know that.

hmmmm, then how are all these people suppose to meet, get married and get knocked up? With a best-friend forever in the backseat? I guess it's just important to realize that at some point a stranger no longer is one. Being able to judge just when that point is is one of the things that seperates children from adults. But like with most things that mark maturity, some fifteen year olds might be able to do it while some twenty-two year olds can't.

I agree this girl was either (a) dumb or (b) was feeling slutty at the moment and then changed her mind after the fact. But at some point people, even teenagers, build trusting relationships with people other than their parents and family (the people most likely to molest/assault/mame/kill them btw).

What if she was 17 and had gone to innocent dinners and movies with the guy once a week for three months after having met him? Maybe she would go back to his place with the thought of making out and cuddling on the couch but then he ushers her into the bedroom and 'can't help himself'. It makes him a criminal. But I don't think it makes her an idiot, just another person with bad luck.

Life's a risk. In some instances it's better to chance being made a fool than to mistrust a friend. Of course, this instance should show us that I mean real friends, not the myspace kind.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

"AIM" isn't designed to allow 'hookpups' -- MySpace _IS_ about:

1] Typeing "u r k00l' and 'u r hot'
2] meeting people.

I'm at work, and can't check it out -- but aren't you supposed to be 18 to use myspace?

I want to know where this little girls parents where/are. They have some responsability here too. Kids should _NEVER_ be allowed on the 'net without supervision...there are too many predators out there.

Re:What they need.

[uglyduckling]

Man it's Nazis like you that take a childs trust and piss all over it - I don't care if you are dressing it up in nicey nicey language and giving a couple of half-assed exceptions to your draconian behavior. I give my child the privacy he wants, he respects me and listens to what I say and then he does it too.

But how did he learn that trust and respect in the first place? It doesn't happen by magic. Sure, children need to learn from mistakes, but those mistakes need to happen in a safe environment to start with so that the consequences are limited. When children are learning to walk we don't let them wander all over town and across busy streets - they're encouraged to try walking from one person to another in the home, and then outside holding an adults hand. Their freedom to walk without direct involvement of an adult is gradually increased, and if a worrying trend develops their their freedom is reined back a little, for instance if they keep wandering into the road then they might be made to hold hands for the rest of that trip and that pattern repeated until they've learnt the lesson.

Social interactions are no different, children gradually build up an understanding of how the world works and how to recognise danger in social situations. They aren't born with an innate ability to understand the world that would flourish if only parents didn't hold them back (as you seem to suggest). I can see your point: over-protectiveness can be just as damaging as neglect, but it's about being appropriate to the child's level of development. The majority of (but clearly not absolutely all) 14 year-olds are not ready to move about in the adult world completely unsupervised, be it virtually via the Internet or physically, as this story clearly illustrates.

I warn him of the consequence, which is all I can do, and if he fucks up then its his fault.

Yes - but a responsible parent will ensure that the "fuck up" will not do serious damage to the mental or physical health of the child. In the case of this story the 'hands off' approach has been shown not to work - the mental and possibly physical heath of a minor has been seriously damaged through sexual assult that should not have been possible if appropriate supervision had been in place.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

If she doesn't put out in 3 months, she has some issues anyway. Guy should've dumped her already.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmmm, then how are all these people suppose to meet, get married and get knocked up? With a best-friend forever in the backseat? I guess it's just important to realize that at some point a stranger no longer is one. Being able to judge just when that point is is one of the things that seperates children from adults. But like with most things that mark maturity, some fifteen year olds might be able to do it while some twenty-two year olds can't.

We are not in disagreement here. My point was that this isn't about the internet, it's about going out with a stranger. The same thing would have happened if she had met the same guy in different ways.

Secondly, having someone around to help in case of an emergency doesn't mean it has to be a friend. Go to a restaurant, there will be lots of people around. Doesn't matter if the woman is 18 or 45, I'd still recommend that for the first date (Guys are usually capable of defending themselves). After that, she can decide if she trusts him or not.

A fourteen year old, on the other hand, probably isn't capable of judging the guys intentions, and should probably not be alone with him in general. At least not until after bringing him home a couple of times, so that her parents get to know him. Then they can decide if they trust him or not.

Re:What they need.

[nxtw]

Honestly, it would be easy enough to do the same kind of thing by calling cell phones today.

Reminds me of this guy who did something like that.

Re:What they need.

[donscarletti]

and remember that you're probably a complete moron about at least one thing

I'm sure he is, but then again he's not the one going for rides with strangers. It's one thing to not be able to write a realtime scheduler, its another thing to lack the basic life skills that keep you safe in this world. Just because someone is too dumb/arrogent/independant to be safe, doesn't make us responsible for it. If life were any easier for the stupid, they would just have licence to be even dumber. If they can only hurt themselves, let them be free and responsible, it is not our problem.

Unfortunently, even evolution will never get rid of childhood stupidity because it is exactly this kind of person that finds themself a parent at the age of 15.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

" I give my child the privacy he wants, he respects me and listens to what I say and then he does it too.
I warn him of the consequence, which is all I can do, and if he fucks up then its his fault. "
Each to their own and both sides have good arguments
But real question is, if something happens do you turn around sue website X?

This is why i don't blame Myspace, nor the child (who is afterall a child) but rather the parents of the child, they, somewhere along the line either made same choices you did or just could not be assed to keep track of their child and bad came of it.

Now instead of just accepting the blame (and they are to blame, either for not monitoring their child or not educating them well enough) they are trying use their childs misfortune to earn a buck from MySpace

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

How about myspace sue her parents for being irresponsible allowing their child to do 'what ever' on the internet, it's not like they havn't been warned that nasty people use the net.. or this is a first time it's ever happend situation. so the 30 mill is all about saying sorry is it.. not trying to capitalise at every given opertunity from rubish compensation laws

Re:What they need.

[Oersoep]

Don't you all think the mother is the one who made a problem out of it?

Here's a possibility:

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the first time the girl got layed. It's just that her mother found out this time and a teenage girl then does what works best: Play the victim role and accuse the neighbor/teacher/boyfriend/one night stand whatever really happened. I always have my doubts in cases like this. There ARE 14 year old sluts. There's no denying it. They get their tramp stamp tattooed when they're 12 and as soon as they have it they start showing it off in malls wearing hardly anything. And when the parents find out.... they can't handle their own failure and start victimizing their poor special girls.

I'm not saying pedophiles and assholes don't exist. They do and the law is the law. But who's fault it is when a kid ends up on someones dick remains to be seen. My guess is it's mostly the parents, the kid herself and the local school culture that are to blame. And of course the owner of the dick for not checking her ID.

And indeed sueing MySpace is like seuing the police for letting everything else happen on the public street "cause they didn't do enough to prevent it". Ridiculous.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your spelling would indicate that you've never been to school.

Re:What they need.

[stanmann]

Yes, he screwed up, and should be held criminally responsible, but its not Myspace's responsibility to ask

"Do you intend to seduce/rape/date females/males/puppies that you meet through this forum?"

Forum in this case refering to any place you can meet people, mall, school, library, etc.

Re:What they need.

[Chowderbags]

AIM isn't designed to allow hookups? How many times throughout the 90s (and even still today) did we hear about "sexual preditor meets child in AOL chatroom? Open chatrooms are, by definition, allowing people who do not know eachother personally to chat, which easily allows hookups. And it's not like someone can't lie on an AOL (and especially AIM) profile.

However, yes, it does boil down to parental responsibility (and plain common sense). The parent should be telling the kid that doing certain things (like, I dunno, meeting up with people online) are bad ideas. The kid should realize that even if the guy really were a high school senior, he could still have raped her, and besides, teeanage to college age boys have only so much that they're thinking about.

Really, I've got no idea how they can even expect that 1% of a company's worth is reasonable anyway. This just seems like a greedy mother and daughter. Besides, reading sections 10, 12, and 17 of the terms and conditions, it's pretty clear that the girl has no leg to stand on (unless we want to get into contract law involving minors, which opens up more than a few cans of worms).

Re:What they need.

[PoprocksCk]

And why does Myspace have any more responsibility than ANY other community-based website or bulletin board?

The same reason Wikipedia isn't considered a valid source by many teachers and professors, while most of whom have no problem with the billions of other websites out there being used as sources.

Re:What they need.

[DrWho520]

It is funny you mention the phrase "afterschool special" and relate an anecdote about a high school peer. She was 14 and he was 19. Guess what? The same thing can and does happen at any high school in the United States. Freshman date Seniors because Freshman girls like the clout dating an upperclassman holds and Seniors date Freshman because they are naive and easy. This was happening decades before MySpace. Now, when Suzy Q comes home smelling of beer, cigarettes and cheap sex, she can blame MySpace. Now, parents no longer have to blame themselves, they can blame a corporation. Now, instead of teaching a valuable life lesson to their child, they teach their child to blame others for their problems and sue people.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

I invoke Godwin's Law. You lose. Have a nice day.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

Starting around 12 yo, you can't just check everything they do.

furthermore, any sort of snooping or privacy invasion will be regarded as a breach of trust by said snotty nosed teen,
breeding resentment and ill feelings.
Teenagers will lie and stretch the truth to get what they want also. $5 says the girl told her 'rents that she was going
to Susie's house to paint her nails or to the mall or something. As innocent as a 14 year old can be, they can also
be ruthlessly cunning and deceptive. Personally, I was running around high as a kite and lying about it while looking
right into my mothers' eyes.

We all know myspace is lame but innocent. The 19 year old boy should have known better than to fuck with a minor.
He picked her up from a school for gods sake.
The 14 year old girl should still be stopping at second base. The parents..... well the jury is still out on them, not enough
information to say what really happened here. Good luck and god bless to all. As a father of a young girl I pray that my journey through her teenage years goes smoothly (yeah right !).

Re:What they need.

[YrWrstNtmr]

Why did her parents allow her to meet a total stranger without supervision?

There was no 'allowing'. She didn't ask, he never came to the house and rang the doorbell. He just picked her up from school.

Re:What they need.

[jez9999]

The MySpace cesspool is in danger of leaking out and poisoning the well of community-based boards everywhere; the pure, crystal clear waters of SlashDot

Hmm, you give a very interesting description for 'festering turdpool'. :-P

Re:What they need.

[RockModeNick]

Research has shown the parenting style are learned by the parent from the child more than the child is shaped by the parenting method; parents, being more intelligent and resourceful than children(usually, hopefully...), are the ones that adapt to figure out what will work. Other research has shown that peer groups contribute far more to personality than any other factor, including parenting methodologies. This indicates to me that responsible parents should be paying more attention to their child's peer group than anything else.

Re:What they need.

[viking099]

I think the suit is complaining that MySpace didn't verify HER age and didn't do enough to protect HER from a 19 year old predator.

Re:What they need.

[plague3106]

The parent should be telling the kid that doing certain things (like, I dunno, meeting up with people online) are bad ideas.

Meeting people online is not a bad thing in and of itself. I've met quite a few friends this way. Meeting people from online someplace that isn't public is the bad idea.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The girl involved is partially responsible only becuase she is younge."

This is just an incredibly stupid thing to say. This is, in fact, your classic flamebit comment. The fact that a moderator rates this anything but a 0 and "insightful" for that matter makes the entire slashdot community look like a bunch of dick waving idiots. Shame on you moderator. Go masturbate and get it out of your system.

Yes, mod me down, you disgust me.

Re:What they need.

[donscarletti]

I went to a conservative church and a wild highschool and I've seen kids brought up in many different ways. In the long term, the strictness and invasiveness of this upbringing never made much difference to the end result. One of the most well adjusted and independant young men I know grew up with a mother who controlled almost his every move and a father that controlled the remainder. They still have a very loving, respectful relationship. Also I know people who grew up well in houses where they were allowed to do whatever they wanted, good or bad and I know some very strong counterexamples to both as well.

Generally, a child will grow up strong in their parents values if they form a close, respectful and loving bond with their parents. If a child respects their parents they will grow up like their parents wanted them to, if a child does not, they will reject what their parents taught them whether it was just a suggestion or whipped into them. The mother and father should be influential leaders who set good examples, make good desisions and treat the child and each other well. That's what makes a good adult in my experience.

Re:What they need.

[tbmcmullen]

From the wiki article on "Bulletin Board Systems":

Snowed in during The Great Chicago Snowstorm of 1978, Ward Christensen began preliminary work on what would eventually become what he called "the first BBS" to exist.

Well, let me count backwards... 28 years! Well, it seems they have been around for a while. Longer than I've been alive anyhow. As for the the "legal challenges and precedents" I'll let one of our "not-a-lawyers" answer that.

Re:What they need.

[ThinWhiteDuke]

Nice rant.
Let me guess : you're 22 years old with no kids but you know exactly how people should deal with their teenage children.
Right?

Re:What they need.

[sgbett]

As far as the dealer was concerned she was threatining him with hard time!

Still doesnt make it right I agree, but if I was a drug dealer I wouldn't be ranking it in the same class as petty vindictiveness.

*Shrugs*

Re:What they need.

[Moraelin]

"When i saw this i mean it like someone is responsible for their own mugging if they walk through a bad neighborhood at night."

Dude, noone is _responsible_ for their own mugging or their own rape, especially when the _only_ "fault" is being at that place at that time. It's not like someone went to the biggest gangster in the neighbourhood and started calling them names or anything even remotely resembling starting it. So blaming the victim or making them _responsible_ of their mis-fortune, when again all they've done was happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, strikes me as _absurd_ to the extreme.

You may call it poor foresight, maybe even bad judgment, but outright shifting the blame onto the victim is just surrealistic.

Also, as a guy, I feel insulted by being compared to a mugger in a bad neighbourhood. The implication that going to a guy's house is obviously (enough to deserve blaming the victim) gonna result in getting raped if you don't put out, is outright insulting to males as a whole.

And generally, I don't know in what geek fantasy world do you live, where that kind of an attitude towards women is normal, but rest assured that most males can understand such notions as "free will." Nothing "is expected of" anyone just because you gave them a meal and a cinema ticket. If you want to get laid, there's that "free will" again: you have to make them want to do that and/or get past their inhibitions. You're trying to win someone's _consent_, not buying a quick fuck at a brothel. Wining and dining them is a means of making yourself likeable enough to that end, not buying a non-refundable ticket for sex.

I can tell you that I've had classmates and such coming to my home, or me going over to theirs, and the notion didn't even enter my head that I have some obvious right to fuck them one way or another. Sure, I'd try to make some move, rarely it actually worked, most of the time it _didn't_ work (guess my being fairly nerdy didn't help either), but at no point was there an idea that they have some duty to put out, much less that failure to do so is punishable by rape.

So excuse me if I take it as an insult when I read no less than that coming to my place was comparable to going to get mugged at night in a bad neighbourhood.

And let's not even get into the whole aspect of doing it with a underage kid, in any form or shape.

"This lawsuit is rediculous becuase MySpace is where they met, not where the crime happened."

With that I can aggree, though. But again, that doesn't make the girl guilty of her own rape either.

Re:What they need.

[s_p_oneil]

If she was 14 and she let him drive her anywhere, which implies that he's at least 16 or that he's already breaking the law, she should be fined heavily and her lawyers barred from practicing law for frivolously wasting the taxpayers' (and MySpace's) time and money. Of course, most judges in America won't have the guts to do that, especially in such a sensitive and high-profile case.

Unfortunately, ridiculously frivolous lawsuits seem to be one of the hallmarks of American society. Otherwise, companies like Dremel would never need to add a warning label to their drill indicating that it should never be used as a dental drill.

Re:What they need.

[RobotRunAmok]

Longer than I've been alive anyhow

You needn't have spelled that out for us. The Wikipedia citation was enough.

BBS?! You're comparing the prevalence, pervasiveness, and concerns of the Web in 2006 with Bulletin Board Systems? You might as well compare the freedoms, responsibilities, and pressures of modern urban newspapermen with their Dark Age Irish Monk forebears.

C'mon...!

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

They aren't born with an innate ability to understand the world that would flourish if only parents didn't hold them back (as you seem to suggest)

Sure they are. Children are quite adept at surviving (after all, isn't that one of the many factors of a species' survival?) We have stranger danger, we shy away from loud sounds, big scary events, and, possibly most useful, the instinct to call for help in a way that no-one can ignore. Did you know that the one sound that people find most irritating (and thus most enticing to find the cause of and stop) is a baby crying?

Children heal very well physically and mentally, and know that if it looks dangerous, or feels too hot, to not touch it. The danger is in things that are deceptive (boilling water on a stove) or unnaturally quick (cars). Teens can become secretive and get sufficiently conditioned out of their natural instincts in the name of bravado, so IMHO teens are the ones we should be monitoring, not children.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you.

Are you at least an 18 year old female with mediocre or better looks who can hold a conversation? If so would you like to go out for dinner, a movie and maybe back to my place afterwards?

Geez, where do you get your ideas?

Re:What they need.

[computer_redneck]

"there are two things in the world that is infinite
(1) the universe
(2) human stupidity"

You forgot the rest of the quote - and I am not sure about the first. - Albert Einstein

As to the topic. Considering I run a MUD and have been an IMM on several it would not have suprised me if somewhere along the way it comes out that they had "Cybersex" before even meeting over an IM.

I DO NOT condone what the 19 year old did... Especially if the sex was forced. Problem being here is that I had a friend in college whos whole life was screwed up because the morning after the girl he was with decided to claim rape and despite my testimony and several of her friends he was convicted of sexual assault and put on probation for 10 years. Thankfully that was 20 years ago and at least he did not have to be listed as a sexual offender.

Also as for first date etiquette, MS. Manners can go to hell. In my years of dating I have only had one date that I did not get a kiss at the end and many that went all the way on the first date including breakfast the next morning. Anyone in the baby boomer generations who claims that a kiss on a first date is the norm must have grown up isolated from the rest of the world.

Again lest others get the wrong impression - I DO NOT condone what the 19 y/o did, He should never have tried to have any type of sex with someone under the age of 18.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

So...did you get caught?

Re:What they need.

[jimktrains]

Off-topic: I have profs that fail a paper out-right if we site ANY online source. You got it in a journal on-line, good, cite the paper journal, not the web site....

On-topic: Nothing can be said because there are no details readily avalibale. I must say, however, that anyone >= 18 should know the rules and not flirt with the law....

Re:What they need.

[nilloc]

It's al about the money.

Re:What they need.

[Ian Wolf]

I'd love to say you're wrong, but the memory of the Milton Academy sex scandal is still fresh in my mind. Milton Academy Sex Scandal

Re:What they need.

[bemenaker]

While the gist of what you are saying is correct, your details get a little off base man. There is not implied acceptance on her part, there never is. Yes, he had expectations, and wants, but regardless, that never grants permission.

I am not saying that you believe it does, you make attempts to correct your botched wording. Take more time with your point, to alleviate the confusion, and you won't get flamed so badly here.

The idea that myspace is to blame here, is just plain and simply retarded.

Re:What they need.

[a55clown]

in arizona, we have a "stupid drivers law". for instance, if you attempt to drive through a wash and get carried away by the water, you will incur a charge from the state for wasting their time rescuing your dumb ass.

(for anyone who doesn't know what a wash is, it's a culvert for diverting water during the rainy season.)

Re:What they need.

[nutz-13]

Come on now, Don't be so insensitive. She got a case, in fact a pretty good one. I suggest, she should sue..
1. The Diner, they facilitated that evening goes fine.
2. The Movie Hall, they did'nt object to them being cozy.
3. Car maker, they allowed minors to go out alone with a 19 year old and did'nt sound the alarm.
4. Builders of apartment complex, they let people to use they parking lot without checking background.

Obviously, if this amounts to less than a billion dollar suit, we can go after email service provider and phone company. Real jackass these company folks. They just assume I am smart enough for decision that affect my life. Freedom to do what you want is such an overrated concept.

Re:What they need.

[Sj0]

Reasonable humans take responsibility for their actions. If you've decided to meet a random person you met on the internet, no matter what your age, you're probably a flaming idiot, and should take responsibility for that. Let's face it, odds are if it wasn't myspace, she would have ended up walking into a biker bar and started insulting the ugly bikers or something.

People who refuse to take responsibility for their actions disgust me. People who refuse to take responsibility for their actions then launch a frivolous tort lawsuit to turn a personal tragedy into an opportunity to strike it rich should commit suicide so they can stop dishonouring the name of their parents and grandparents.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, when Suzy Q comes home smelling of beer, cigarettes and cheap sex, she can blame MySpace.

Just out of curiosity, in what way does "cheap" sex smell any different from any other kind?

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a lot of big words for a 12 year old.

Re:What they need.

[Jaysyn]

We had some kids tampering with our mailbox on a private road. According to the cop that came by later, in Florida, if someone is tresspassing on a lawfully posted, fenced property, you are allowed to hold them till the police come. YMMV.

Jaysyn

Re:What they need.

[ChronisBlack]

I love you man you hit the nail on the head there..... I call for a no skank policy on myspace!!!! There go half the users.... dammit

Re:What they need.

[SkunkPussy]

Yes but now News Corp has bought it they've realised that Complete Morons are their target audience and they've had to pull the clause.

Re:What they need.

[Mr. Underbridge]

I give my child the privacy he wants, he respects me and listens to what I say and then he does it too. I warn him of the consequence, which is all I can do, and if he fucks up then its his fault. He knows he can talk to me if he does, he can talk to me about anything. I'm not going to start taking that freedom away and locking up his television/computer/bike when I dont think its right for him. Thats called LEARNING.

God you're a moron. It's not the kid's fault; he doesn't know any better. It's your fault for not doing a better job as a parent. The problem is that if the "LEARNING" results in death, sexual assault, amputation, or felony charges, then the "LEARNING" probably isn't worth the harm done. The notion that young children can make appropriate choices in all situations is absolutely preposterous. As we saw in this story, kids get themselves into trouble that can scar them for life, especially if the parents pay as much attention to their kids as you clearly do to yours.

You cannot cotton ball children, or chain them up and make them do what you want. They will just end up resenting you

Oh, God forbid.

then before you know it (because they won't tell you) they will be hooked up with some druggy taking herion

There's a false dichotomy for you. Impose any restrictions on children and they'll end up hooked on heroin? Yeah, you're winning parent of the year.

Re:What they need.

[networkBoy]

The point is that you are responsible for your safety. As a parent you are also responsible for your kids safety.
If you leave your kids with a known pedophile you are guilty of willful endangerment irrespective whether anything happens. MySpace (as much as I think it's a worthless POS and should die) is not responsible for this. WTF was a 14 year old doing looking to meet a guy for anyway? And a Double WTF to the parents for not at least having the meeting supervised.

As a parent of two kids I will acknowledge that you can not watch your kids 100% of the time, but instilling basic self preservation and understanding of being in situations you can not control is something that should happen before a child is allowed to run free.

-nB

Re:What they need.

[Urusai]

MySpace is responsible because they should have had a staff of researchers poring over birth records and cross-referencing fingerprint and DNA databases for every schmuck who anonymously sets up a page. I believe the People's Republic of China might be able to provide some guidance in this direction.

Re:What they need.

[Sj0]

As opposed to being in your 40s, and messing things up to the point that Debbie Travis is doing a series about how my entire generation is a bunch of slacker fuck-ups?

Having walked the path isn't enough to speak about it. Only people who have walked the path WELL may speak. Often people forget that.

Re:What they need.

[ShecoDu]

Try bringing a video camera to get those kids out of your place, they will shut up and leave peacefully.

Re:What they need.

[AndersOSU]

It doesn't matter if it is the first time the girl got laid.

It doesn't matter if it was consensual. (It probably wasn't forced sex, or he'd be charged with rape, not sexual assault)

It doesn't matter if this would never have come to light had the mother not found out.

He's 19. She's 14. As you said the law is the law, and sexual assault is sexual assault.

He should be prosecuted - it is his fault he fooled around with a minor, and all accounts indicate that she said she was 14 on myspace.

Oh, and btw, suing myspace is ridiculous.

Re:What they need.

[cayenne8]

"$0.01 would be grossly outlandish, too."

I agree....what the hell happened to personal responsibility? And in this case...since she is a minor, it applies to her parents!!

Actually...I'd say the avg. 14 yr old today is more savvy than my generation and should know much better than this....as a young girl, you can't be that trusting of someone you just meet. Also, her parents should be keeping up with who her friends are and who she is meeting..especially from some online forum!

It isn't the websites fault nor responsibility to police behavior...they are just providing a communitcations forum.

People could be meeting by telephone, but, you wouldn't think of suing the phone company for not doing their part to screen people would you?

Re:What they need.

[flumps]

God you're a moron. It's not the kid's fault; he doesn't know any better. It's your fault for not doing a better job as a parent.

I don't quite know what you're objecting to, and unless you are trolling. WHAT is his fault? What is my fault? I said I WOULD NOT take away anything from him, that I would listen to him and warn him of consequences. When I respect his wishes, he often does what I suggest. I think you are the "moron" for not reading my post properly.

The notion that young children can make appropriate choices in all situations is absolutely preposterous.

No one said "young children", Oliver is 10. He can think, feel, understand and comprehend what I say to him. He can weigh up my advice and I can tell him why he should/shouldn't do things and often objects but understands why. If I just locked up his t.v it is not giving him the opportunity to choose to disobey, which means HE is making the choice.

As we saw in this story, kids get themselves into trouble that can scar them for life,

This story is a "i want your cash" story, nothing more, and you are a fool to think it really relates to what the parent of my post was talking about in any great sense.

especially if the parents pay as much attention to their kids as you clearly do to yours.

The whole point of my post was that I got my kid to think for themselves; whereby they can ask for as much attention from me as they need. Hopefully, that "thinking for themselves" will include asking for advice, which would not be asked for if I simply controlled. You, sir, are the moron - when has control and restriction EVER helped anyone? You tell a child not to do something they automatically want to do it.

here's a false dichotomy for you. Impose any restrictions on children and they'll end up hooked on heroin? Yeah, you're winning parent of the year.

There are no boundaries, at least as far as the ones you allow him to create himself. You know nothing about people if you think building a big fuck off wall around something is going to stop them from trying to climb over and see whats on the other side. Ask them to build it themselves, and give them the tools and the reason to do it however...

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

"where the girl is partially at fault."

This is where you lose all credibility. She may have been naive and done something stupid but she is in no way shape or form at fault for what happened to her.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

"Reasonable humans take responsibility for their actions. If you've decided to meet a random person you met on the internet, no matter what your age, you're probably a flaming idiot, and should take responsibility for that. Let's face it, odds are if it wasn't myspace, she would have ended up walking into a biker bar and started insulting the ugly bikers or something. People who refuse to take responsibility for their actions disgust me. People who refuse to take responsibility for their actions then launch a frivolous tort lawsuit to turn a personal tragedy into an opportunity to strike it rich should commit suicide so they can stop dishonouring the name of their parents and grandparents."

It is plainly obvious from your idiotic, "blame the idiot" diatribe that you have never been a victim of a crime before. Just because your life is perfect doesn't make you any better or smarter than someone who gets an ass full shit rammed down their throat.

Re:What they need.

[uglyduckling]

Children heal very well physically and mentally, and know that if it looks dangerous, or feels too hot, to not touch it. The danger is in things that are deceptive (boilling water on a stove) or unnaturally quick (cars). Teens can become secretive and get sufficiently conditioned out of their natural instincts in the name of bravado, so IMHO teens are the ones we should be monitoring, not children.

Interesting, but I still maintain that good parenting starts when children are very young, and they understand that they can rely on parents to maintain a safe environment in which to explore the world and make mistakes without those mistakes being permanently damaging. Of course the definition of 'safe' changes dramatically as the child matures, so that as they reach mid-teens 'safe' means that they live their lives more or less independently but know that they can always fall back on parents for advice and loving care.

You disagree with my assertion that children aren't born with an ability to understand the world, but then go on to qualify your disagreement with examples that prove my point! Babies do have a stranger awareness, although this is a stage they grow out of and have to be taught again (google 'stranger awareness' to see how many groups are available to help with this!). Boiling water and fast traffic are examples of non-obvious danger that parents must teach children to avoid.

Part of child development is 'attachment' to parents, and young children will learn to explore their environment within a certain radius around their parents without having to have their parent by their side at every point. If something concerns them they will look for parental reassurance before carrying on. I think that model can carry on until early- to mid-teens very healthily. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory)

Re:What they need.

[uglyduckling]

Nice rant. Let me guess : you're 22 years old with no kids but you know exactly how people should deal with their teenage children. Right?

No, I'm 27 years old. I'm a doctor, I've studied paediatrics and child development as part of my medicine degree. I've been involved in volunteer and semi-professional youth work since I was 18, working in deprived inner city and leafy suburbs. I'm the oldest of seven children, so I've seen and received a fair bit of parenting. The best I've ever seen has been the parenting received by my wife's cousins (who now call us Aunt and Uncle since we were married!) which comes pretty close to what I've described. We don't have kids yet, but when we do I know what parenting style I'll be going for.

Re:What they need.

[ianmh]

Dude, are you for real? "When i saw this i mean it like someone is responsible for their own mugging if they walk through a bad neighborhood at night."

What world do you live in where it is the victims fault. I agree it may not be wise to walk in a bad neighborhood at night, but there is no way it is my fault I get mugged! I mean with that mentality we can just give up on law and order. "Oh he was walking where he shouldn't have, too bad" As a civil society we have the right to walk where ever we please in a public place with the expectation of not being assaulted or mugged. As soon as we start blaming the victim we have a serious problem.

As for the whole myspace thing, its ridiculous, myspace has had as much to do with this as a red traffic light has to do with two strangers meeting at the curb.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

A triple WTF...a article I read said the kid gave the guy her phone number. It doesn't take an attorney to see that you have already lost your case against MySpace.

Re:What they need.

[jb.hl.com]

HAHAHA!

You owe me a new monitor to replace this nasty coffee soaked one I have here now :)

Re:What they need.

[Chanc_Gorkon]

No that's called being stupid. The world of today is even bigger then the world we grew up in. When I was young, I did not have the internet, cable or a iPod. Now there's more things then there ever has been before. Simple rules can keep your kids honest:

1. Computer gets installed in a public place(living room, family room or kitchen).
2. Parents have the right to see what you see on the internet.
3. Parents should have thier kid's passwords or better yet, if your a geek dad, you setup a mailserver to autoforward all of thier mail.
4. You don't follow the rules, then parental spyware gets installed or internet access is taken away(exception being using it for school work).

This isn't about privacy at all. This is protecting your kids from predators.

Re:What they need.

[crossmr]

Community based websites and bulletin board systems have been around for 20 years.
I visited BBS in 1990 when I was a teen and they were old hat by then.

That is plenty of time for legal precedents to take place if any were going to but oh..they haven't.
and it was no different than myspace or any other community site. There were message boards, private messages, little games, profiles, etc.
We used to meet people off them too.

Re:What they need.

[Chanc_Gorkon]

And any attempt to want to "hide" things is a breach of parental trust. As anyone knows, once trust is broken, it can only be earned back. Trust is not something my child automatically gets....it's something he earns. If he screws up, then I have every right to look at his e-mail and everything else he does until such time he earns that trust back.

Re:What they need.

[TrekkieGod]

I warn him of the consequence, which is all I can do, and if he fucks up then its his fault. He knows he can talk to me if he does...

Congratulations. You "get it". I can't claim to know anything about raising children myself, but that's how I was raised, and it was largely due to living in an environment like you describe that I never really gave any trouble of the serious kind to my parents.

A child will make their decisions like everyone else. By weighing the consequences of their actions versus the benefits. If a parent is invading their privacy and just basically keeping an eye on everything they do in order to keep them safe, the consequence on the child's mind is being caught by the parent. The moment the parent isn't there to catch them in the act, there's no reason to obey the rules anymore. If you instead sit down and talk to your child about real life consequences to their actions, those don't go away. If they understand that, they'll steer clear from trouble, if they don't understand that, they'll learn from their mistakes, and they have you to help them through the consequences.

In addition, if they fear punishment from you, they're less likely to talk to you about their problems until it's way too late, because they'll be afraid of what your reaction will be.

It's good to see that there are still responsible parents out there.

Re:What they need.

[TrekkieGod]

No that's called being stupid. The world of today is even bigger then the world we grew up in. When I was young, I did not have the internet, cable or a iPod.

Yes, this is a bigger world. It's going to get bigger. How can you possibly hope to control every move on your child's part? You can either futilely attempt to do so and risk missing that one opportunity they'll need to go behind your back and ruin their lives forever with a single mistake, or you can talk to them about actions and consequences so that they are capable of making good decisions when you're not there available to decide for them.

This isn't about privacy at all. This is protecting your kids from predators.

And the best way to do that is to let your child know that predators are out there, so that they're thinking about that instead of thinking about how to bypass the ridiculous maximum-security prison that you call your home.

Re:What they need.

[orgelspieler]

But shouldn't it matter if the sex is consensual? My 16-year-old cousin has been dating a 21-year-old since they were 15 and 20 (and they are both on MySpace, interestingly enough). I don't know for a fact, but I'm pretty sure they're sexually active, too, seeing as most of her sisters got knocked up about that age. But what happens if she and her parents realize that he's a total dickhead and decide to press charges? According to the laws of the state they live in, that's a real possibility, and the guy could be sent up the river for a looooong time. And I seriously doubt this guy was smart/clever enough to get written permission from my religious-nutso uncle to bang his daughter. Granted that this is a different type of case than the one in the news now, but it offers a different way to look at these laws preventing consensual sex just because of age.

Re:What they need.

[vux984]

People could be meeting by telephone, but, you wouldn't think of suing the phone company for not doing their part to screen people would you?

Good point. The phone company is a common carrier and is not responsible for what people say and do with it.

Therefore she should sue her ISP, not MySpace. After all, her ISP is likely against net neutrality, implying that they do not wish to be a common carrier, and therefore are responsible for what happens over the connections they provide...and therefore are liable when bad things happen. ;)

Re:What they need.

[Mr. Underbridge]

So in 6 years if the kid starts driving drunk, you don't take away the keys because you don't want to take away his ability to make mistakes?

Re:What they need.

[arclyte]

I agree with what you're saying here. Ultimately, the responsibility for a minor's actions lie with the parents. But as you have stated, it's impossible to know everything your kid is doing all of the time. Personally, I was using chat boards when I was about 12 or 13. If you think MySpace is a scary place, you should meet some of the people I met over the years.

Fourteen isn't quite as young as you may think. I was in a very active sexual relationship by that time of my life, and was always on the hunt for more. I won't say that kids of that age aren't naive at all, but they're not as dumb as the media often portrays them. My parents sure as hell didn't know that I was going to meet up with strangers (hopefully a hot chick) that I had met online, but they had instilled enough sense in me to know that you should only do so in a very public place with a lot of exits.

What this article really says to me is... stupid girl meets evil boy, runs home crying to mommy and daddy, who get dollar signs in their eyes... i'm no great fan of myspace myself, but this is just another superfluous litigation to choke up our legal system. This will probably end up being another McDonald's style "Warning: Coffee is a HOT drink, stupid."

Re:What they need.

[arminw]

......Another funny thing here is the $30m figure. You cant even sue someone for that much .....

In the USA you CAN sue anybody for any amount and for any or no reason. Whether she (mostly her lawyer) gets anywhere is up to Myspace.com in how much they are willing to spend on defense rather than settling the blatant extortion attempt out of court and thereby encouraging more such lawsuits. IMHO this is one case that the defendant should fight to the bitter end, rather than settling and thereby give other lawyers the idea of making some easy money. Yes, it may cost more than a quick settlement for a few thousand$ now, but then such a settlement will signal to other robber lawyers, that there is some easy money to be made in the future. I'm sure her lawyer KNOWS that they don't have a snowball's chance in hell to win if this case would come before a jury. If every lawsuit HAD to, by law be resolved by a judge or jury, with no out of court settlements possible, the number of lawsuits would dwindle close to zero.

Re:What they need.

[BoneFlower]

And, to some extent at least, having more resources available should give someone more responsibility to keep things safe. An organization with hundereds of millions of dollars to spare should be expected to keep their backyard safer than someone with mere hundereds of cents to spare.

Not saying this case is necesarily legitimate, just saying that having more money can in some cases make lawsuits more legitimate.

Re:What they need.

[AndersOSU]

Well you have to draw the line somewhere, and IANAL but in the state of Delaware the law reads:

a) A person is guilty of rape in the fourth degree when the person:

(1) Intentionally engages in sexual intercourse with another person, and the victim has not yet reached his or her sixteenth birthday; or

(2) Intentionally engages in sexual intercourse with another person, and the victim has not yet reached his or her eighteenth birthday, and the person is 30 years of age or older, except that such intercourse shall not be unlawful if the victim and person are married at the time of such intercourse

...

(a) A person is guilty of rape in the third degree when the person:

(1) Intentionally engages in sexual intercourse with another person, and the victim has not reached his or her sixteenth birthday and the person is at least 10 years older than the victim, or the victim has not yet reached his or her fourteenth birthday and the person has reached his or her nineteenth birthday and is not otherwise subject to prosecution pursuant to 772 or 773 of this title; or

So it looks like your cousin isn't doing anything illegal now if the law in your state is similar, but would have been in trouble a year ago.

The whole point is that of course consent matters, but in most cases a 15yr olds ability to give consent is mitigated by her age and especially by the age of her (or his) would-be adult partner.

Re:What they need.

[DavidTC]

11- and 12- year olds are not 'people', or, rather, that's about when they turn into people. Before that time they need to be watched like a loved pet to make sure they don't do anything stupid. After that you can reason with them and explain things like danger to them.

Anyone who thinks it's safe to leave a 10-year old alone to do whatever they want is guilty of child neglect. Children do stupid things, and some of those things are very dangerous. You don't have to be in the room every second, obviously, they should be able to start on a task and keep at it, but you need to monitor them to make sure they haven't suddenly decided to build a tower of furniture to try to reach the ceiling or flip the TV over to see what's under it.

Then, at some point, a little switch in their head flips and they become rational, though extremely stupid and ignorant, human beings. Your job becomes explaining things they don't know in simple enough terms they can understand.

Of course, this is an over-simplification. In reality, you explain some things and hope you got through enough that they won't do them, but it's about 11 until they can actually apply the rule to other things, and you can't possibly cover everything dangerous.

OTOH, the poster who said his children don't get any privacy until 16 is an ass.

Re:What they need.

[ocbwilg]

Yes, if you assume that the mall gives you the opportunity to lie about your age, your sex, your face... I don't know if the guy lied in this case, but if he did, then MySpace has a responsability.

You obviously didn't understand the article. It's not about whether or not MySpace gave someone the opportunity to lie about their age or whatever. You always have an opportunity to lie about yourself whether it is online, at the mall, wherever. It's about MySpace not forcing you to be honest. The plaintiff believes that MySpace should be required to verify that people are who they say they are. IMHO, MySpace should be in the clear. MySpace has no control over or responsibility for what people do in the real world. Had the plaintiff restricted her activities with the perpetrator to only those that could be conducted via and controlled by MySpace, then none of this would have happened.

Let's look at this from a different angle. What if the victim and perpetrator had both been 14 years old, or both of them had been 25 years old, and the assault had still happened? Is MySpace responsible for the assault to the tune of $30 million then? Obviously not. Most people would say that you need to be wary of who you meet online when going off with them in the real world. So why is it any different if the victim is a minor? Because it tugs at your heartstrings more? How is MySpace any more responsible than the parent, who already has a legal obligation to watch over their kids?

Re:What they need.

[etzel]

Dear girl,

While going through the pages of myspace, I got your e-mail address because of an urgent pressing matter. I am having a problem involving transfer of 2 Britney spears concert tickets from Nigeria being proceeds from some contract deals. For security reasons I would only deal with whom am sure is ready and knows how to do offshore business which is the reason I contacted you. Please acknowledge receipt and preferably interest in this and I will give you the full details for your assistance.

Thanks,

Prince Childmo Lester.

Re:What they need.

[ocbwilg]

This is where you lose all credibility. She may have been naive and done something stupid but she is in no way shape or form at fault for what happened to her.

This is one of the problems with American society today. Nobody wants to be responsible for their actions anymore. The notion of personal responsibility is dead in America, which is why we're such litigious morons.

To put it simply, everyone is responsible for their own actions and their own decisions. Sometimes you make good choices, sometimes you make bad choices. If you make a bad choice that results in you sufferring some sort of injury, assault, molestation, etc, then you are at least in part responsible for what happens to you.

Yes, raping someone is a crime. Yes, we all know that "no" means "no", and that most times "yes" can also mean "maybe", and the perpetrator should be punished. The fact that the victim made a bad decision that resulted in her being assaulted does not in any way mitigate the guilt of the perpetrator. For the purposes of determining criminal responsibility it can be 100% the perpetrator's fault because they are the one who committed the crime. But to claim that she is in no way, shape, or form responsible for what happened to her is ridiculous. It is an absolute rejection of reality. The only claim more laughable is that MySpace, who had no control over any of the decisions made or actions taken, should somehow be held more responsible for the crime than the perpetrator, the victim, or the victim's family.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

"But to claim that she is in no way, shape, or form responsible for what happened to her is ridiculous."

So... just how was she responsible for getting raped? What action did she take that caused her warrant some dipshit(understatement of the year) forcibly taking her virginity(I can only assume because of her age.) That (assumed) fact makes this all the more disgusting. Doing one stupid thing does not make you responsible for some elses disgusting perversions. You are blaming the victim and she had made no decision worthy of being sexually assaulted by this animal. I sense that you too have never been the victim of a crime. Yes, the lawsuit is rediculous but all this, "she's a stupid cunt who deserved to get raped" bullshit is the true, "absolute rejection of reality."

Re:What they need.

[ocbwilg]

So... just how was she responsible for getting raped? What action did she take that caused her warrant some dipshit(understatement of the year) forcibly taking her virginity(I can only assume because of her age.) That (assumed) fact makes this all the more disgusting. Doing one stupid thing does not make you responsible for some elses disgusting perversions. You are blaming the victim and she had made no decision worthy of being sexually assaulted by this animal. I sense that you too have never been the victim of a crime. Yes, the lawsuit is rediculous but all this, "she's a stupid cunt who deserved to get raped" bullshit is the true, "absolute rejection of reality."

You obviously didn't read my post at all. Either that, or you aren't capable of comprehending simple english. I didn't say that the was "responsible for getting raped". I didn't blame the victim. I never called the victim any names, least of all "a stupid cunt". I never claimed that she deserved to get raped.

And while I'm correcting you anyway, let's just try stick to the facts here. The perp isn't being charged with rape. They are being charged with sexual assault. That can mean any number of things, but to claim that she was raped (unless you have some inside info on the case) is plainly fabricating information to reinforce your viewpoint.

Nothing in the article claims that the "assault" was forcible. In many states, even consensual sex with someone who is underage is considered sexual assault, even if they lied about their age. So again, unless you have some inside info on the case you are simply fabricating information.

Nothign in the article claims that the victim was a virgin either. Again, unless you are privy to some inside information here you are again simply making up "facts" to support your argument. And there's nothing that says that just because a girl is 14 that she is, or is likely to be, a virgin. There are plenty of teenage girls in that age group who are sexually active to various degrees ranging from simple petting to full-on intercourse. I have several friends who teach in middle and high school, and I suspect that you would be STUNNED to her about the sorts of things that go on between schoolkids these days. Technically speaking, it's possible that this victim could have been sexually assaulted and still be a virgin. So let's not jump to conclusions.

And speaking of jumping to conclusions, yes, I have been a victim of a crime. I've been beaten for just walking down the street in the wrong neighborhood, not to mention pettier crimes like theft. So turn off your "spidey sense" here, it's plain wrong.

Now, on to what I actually did say. I said "Yes, raping someone is a crime." and "The fact that the victim made a bad decision that resulted in her being assaulted does not in any way mitigate the guilt of the perpetrator. For the purposes of determining criminal responsibility it can be 100% the perpetrator's fault because they are the one who committed the crime."

The point that I was trying to get across is that all people, whether they are rapists, high school students, parents, or whatever, are responsible for their own decisions. They bear the responsibility for the results of their good choices and their bad choices, whatever the outcome. In this case, the girl has to live with the knowledge that her bad decisions (in all contradiction to common sense) to run around with someone much older than her that she didn't know very well resulted in her sexual assault. The perp will have to live with the knowledge that his decision to have sexual relations of some sort with a minor (whether consensual or otherwise) was a crime and that he will likely go to prison and be branded a sex offender for the rest of his life for it. The victim's parents are going to have to live with the knowledge that they did not properly prepare their child for dealing with strangers, and because of that she was assaulted. See how it works? Each person has

Re:What they need.

[Loonacy]

No. They. Aren't.

Obviously, they WERE, at least in this instance.

Re:What they need.

[PB_TPU_40]

Actually from my experience, often even into the early 20s alot of people suffer from the, dont know things they should, or even more than that, the invincibility item. Now before someone snaps at me over the invincibility thing, even I suffered from it and admit it. I took many unneccessary risks looking back, and all it took was one accident, which was a judgment call, that little voice in my head that said, sure you can make it was shut up.

My fiance's little sister doesn't listen to anything either of us say, what do we know, you're only 22, what do my parents know, I'm 18 and I just graduated so I know more than you. She posted a butt load of personal info on MySpace. Only info of me on their is enough for friends from highschool I haven't seen in a long time to find me, and thats the only thing I use it for.

Now I know there's some serious problems with MySpace but as long as you're not a moron, you'll be fine. I gave my sister one of the best gifts possible, I found a really good friend of hers from childhood that she hadn't talked to for 4 years and she seriously fell off the face of the earth. I found her on myspace. Connecting to people you've lost contact with, it's nice, meeting people to date, STUPID. No offense to those who do it but if you do, take friends with you when you meet them, dont meet them at your residence, but a public place like a mall, make sure you tell people where you're going and when to expect you back as well. Also meeting them one time is not enough to give them the keys to your house. Don't trust anything over the net, it's easy to lie. Good example, 14 year olds can find porn, all they do is click the "I'm over 18" button.

Now back to work.

Re:What they need.

[jbreckman]

Yeah, but you missed my point.

Yes, if you assume that the mall gives you the opportunity to lie about your age, your sex, your face...

He was saying that because MySpace allows people to enter their age/sex/face, MySpace should be held more responsible than a mall.

People don't hold AIM accountable for all the crazy stuff that goes on there. Why is this? Is it because AIM doesn't have "age/sex/face" fields? It is clearly a free-for-all.

My point was that since AIM has less (almost no) "information" about you, they somehow are less responsible, yet MySpace gives you a forum to write about yourself and is now in the position where they are expected to do a background check on every member.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

Whoever is modding these forums is changing the posts. This is not conducive to proper and fair debate. I realise I can be a bit inflamatory, but that does not rationalize altering posts to put me in unfavorable light. Especially, when I'm not the one advocating raping girls who are "naive" and go home with someone.

Re:What they need.

[ClamIAm]

On AIM, he would have had to lie himself.

Not necessarily.

Re:What they need.

[Chowderbags]

So just because AIM doesn't have specific fields for age, they're less accountable in your mind? How does that even make sense? Someone can easily lie either way, one just has a simple prompt (which can essentialy be ignored anyway).

And how does AIM have less information about you? True, you don't have to put anything in your profile, but neither does myspace. And to say that AIM can't hold as much information about you as myspace is ludicrous. I could easily post a schedule of where I'll be on any given day in AIM. Does that mean that AOL is responsible for the information I post? Not in the least.

So why is myspace the problem here? If the issue is the medium that the information transfers over, than any place where you can post information (true or not) about yourself could be held liable for the actions of a poster. That's dangerous and pointless. The real problem is that someone committed a criminal act, period. Charge the person.

Re:What they need.

[jbreckman]

I agree with you! Apparently I am poor at explaining my side of things.

My *sole* point was:

If a guy IMs a 13 year old and says "Hey i am 13 here is a pic of me" and then molests her - he gets in trouble and no one blames AIM

Like the post I responded to, if a guy could pretend to be 13 and hang out at malls (not possible, but whatever), and he molested a 13 year old - the mall wouldn't be held accountable

But if a guy makes a profile on MySpace and says, in his profile that he is 13 and finds a 13 year old and molests her - suddenly MySpace "should" have verified his age.

I'm not saying it is right, and this stupid example was only in response to the parent post.

Re:What they need.

[flumps]

He'd borrow his friends car, nothing you could do. I've seen it with my brother, so I am talking from experience.

I'm not saying that discipline isn't necessary, only that uneccessary discipline breeds resentment. A small sharp shock is better than continual mistrust, denial of behavior and control.

m

Re:What they need.

[everett]

When I was 12 I went out and bought my own Zoom 28.8 modem from the local computer store, managed to convince the helpdesk weenies at (then) Erols Internet that I was in fact my father's agent and that we had forgotten the password to our account and needed it reset, set it all up on my 486 running windows 95 (I had just upgraded from 3.1) and I managed to reconfigure my parents PC so that the new password was saved in the properties for the dial-up connection.

The first place I hit after setting all this up behind my parents's backs? IRC. If you think chat boards are a bad place for a preteen/teenager, my god IRC must be the worst possible place. A few years later after a run in with the local police of the podunk town I lived in (I sold a disk containing some images from IRC to a senior at the local HS) I swore it all off, and looking back I'm glad I did. I'm 22 now and much wiser to the REAL dangers out there for children. The thing people that have never had to supervise kids don't realise is that children will KNOWINGLY and WILLFULLY seek these things out. It's a curiosity over something that is made to be very taboo for young children, and in my opinion is a natural backlash of the puritan roots of and protestant influences still affecting America. As long as sex is something you try to keep from your children, it's going to be something they seek out with out any heed to their own well-being. There's no good solution, some children get hurt by bad people in the world. It's a fact of life, there will always be someone who's a victim. The best thing that we as a society can do is to educate our children about the existence of bad people, and then prosecute and dish out justice to those people that hurt children and help their victims to recover (I'm sure that I don't have to point out that sexual assault of young people causes severe psychological damage.)
 
Personally I feel this law suit is absolutely pointless, and securing mySpace against this sort of thing is a red herring of crime prevention. Unless things have changed drastically since the last time I checked most sexual assaults against young children are commited by family members or those close to the child's family. Complete strangers abducting, raping and murdering children only makes big headlines because it's so sensational. The FUD machines (news media) generate this kind of crap because it sells newspapers or TV ad's. I guess the point would be keep an eye out on what your kids do online, but keep a closer eye on anyone that has immediate access to your child because they are the more likely predadtor than Jimmy14827 on mySpace.

Re:What they need.

[LWATCDR]

"Also, her parents should be keeping up with who her friends are and who she is meeting..especially from some online forum!"
So what do you recommend? Blocking software on the teens computer? Or not allowing the teen to have a computer in her bed room?

The thing is I do agree that this is stupid but what I don't like is flip-flop I see on Slashdot.
Ratings for games are bad! Laws making it illegal to sell games with "mature" ratings to under age kids is bad! Bocking websites at schools is bad.

Newsflash, minors will often do dangerous and or stupid things. Those minors will often do them knowing that their parents would disapprove so they do everything in there power to not get caught.

You can not have it both ways. You can not say that the parents are responsible and at the same time say that kids should have the freedom to do what ever they want.

Yea MySpace has become a sexual ghetto. MySpace knows it and has told minors to stay off. Schools know it and they are trying to block it at school. Great kids don't need to be on MySpace at school anyway. I do not see this as MySpaces fault at all. She shouldn't be hooking up with people on MySpace, she sure as heck shouldn't have been going out with a 19 year old. And the 19 year old sure shouldn't have taken her back to his place.
Throw the 19 year old in jail and go on with your lives.

Re:What they need.

[cayenne8]

My parents pretty much knew everyone I hung out with....mostly kids in my neighborhood...and we were all pretty much at one of our houses. My Mom felt she pretty much raised me and all my other friends...and so did their Mom's.

I don't see why parents don't have the same repoire with the kids as mine had with me. Advance in technology is no excuse for not keeping tabs on your kids. It was done in the past, and for some reason, not being done today.

Re:What they need.

[1337W422102]

MySpace is just 14YO acting like whores anyway. If you use MySpace, it's more than obvious that you're f***ed in the head. Now this dumb broad's body matches her head. Hopefully this turn of events will teach people to stop using MySpace and go outside & get a life.

Re:What they need.

[LWATCDR]

Did your mom have to work? Many mothers do. The other thing is not every child is the same. I really didn't get into much trouble when I was a teen. One of my sisters got into constant trouble while my other sister didn't get into hardly any.
Yea your mom knew who you where friends with but then you didn't have 600 "friends" from all over the world chatting with you on MySpace.
The world is a different place. With the Internet you have almost all the advantages of living in the biggest city in the world with the best libraries in the world. You also have the disadvantages of living in the biggest city in the world with the most adult book stores and peep shows in the world.
Think of the Internet as being like a great kids club with a great library located in a really bad red light district.

Re:What they need.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, not all children have the instincts for survival. Since the only way is to get it genetically from their parents, that would me that you don't have it either. There is a way for you to teach your children survival skills 'And this only applies to you and your family'

1. Go find a Cliff or a bridge somewhere
2. Take your entire fucktarded family
3. Have your entire fucktarded family jump to their death
4. After your entire fucktarded family is dead, jump to your death
5. Problem Solved

Re:What they need.

[Idiomatick]

Wow.... you brought up a really good point about Net neutrality that i haven't heard before ... *mods parent up.... if you werent already at 5*.

Re:What they need.

[aberrantvirtue]

You can not have it both ways. You can not say that the parents are responsible and at the same time say that kids should have the freedom to do what ever they want. That is in no way what the sentiments about wanting to avoid laws against violent video games, or to keep GTA just the way it is mean. We're (at least, I'm) not advocating that children should be free to do anything they want...I'm saying that as an adult I should not have my freedom curtailed so that Suzy Homemaker can feel better about whether little Johnny's playing violent videogames or seeing porn on the internet. Parents should be responsible for their children, and if they're not they should be the ones who suffer for it. Suing Myspace because you failed to protect your daughter is a waste of the court's time.

Re:What they need.

[alfs boner]

depends on how you think, you'd tell me a girl go out with somebody she meet

You wear a uniform at work, don't you?

Re:What they need.

[TheoMurpse]

You cannot cotton ball children, or chain them up and make them do what you want.[...]
The next thing you'll know, mr/miss, is they're face'll be on the news found dead somewhere.

You, sir, are absolutely correct: if you punish your kids, they will die a violent death. Absolutely fucking brilliant.

Re:What they need.

[Sj0]

You fail.

Shit happens. If you do things that help make it happen, you are to blame. In this cursed city, I've been robbed, stolen from, accused, and treated with the greatest contempt, but unlike the girl and her honourless parents in this story, I didn't make dumbfuck decisions like inviting people on the internet to meet me.

It's the first rule of the internet: What happens on the internet stays on the internet, because it's too dangerous a place to be fucking around. ESPECIALLY if you're 14.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

So in other words, every single naive 14 year old child should be dragged out of their house and beaten and raped? That is exactly what you are saying, if you think that it is her fault she got raped. I can't believe I'm even arguing this. I can't believe the complete lack of even the basest form of compassion in these responses. People say they've been robbed and beaten here, but I sincerely doubt you know what it is like to be raped. There is a huge gigantic difference. Unless you are claiming that you are at fault for being beaten? But no, you're not. You state that quite clearly in your post. It's her fault for lack of judgement, but it's not your fault for your lack of judgement for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Please, you are the very epitome of the word hypocrite.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

It is plainly obvious from your idiotic, "blame the victim" diatribe that you have never been a victim of a crime before. Just because your life is perfect doesn't make you any better or smarter than someone who gets an ass full shit rammed down their throat.

I just wanted to correct my post as it seems as if there is a very immature person modding this board. Of course, given the juvenility of the responses here, I can expect this post to be editted as well.

Re:What they need.

[cayenne8]

"Did your mom have to work? Many mothers do."

As a matter of fact, yes she did. Part time when I was VERY young, but, full time after that...especially when I was old enough to come home from school and stay alone...starting about 5th grade or so up. Yup, full time working folks, but, they kept up with me while at home or roaming the neighborhood with my friends (when youngest, had to check in by landline every 2 hours or so)...we had home cooked meals 99% of the time and meals as a family.

Re:What they need.

[Sj0]

I'm sorry, but this conversation is over. You're not literate enough to read my precisely written blog entry, thus you're not literate enough to actually read my posts, thus you're not literate enough to comprehend my arguements.

You're also not literate enough to notice that I ended up taking personal and financial responsibility for my role in aggrivating consequences of the robbery. Hypocrite indeed.

Call Hooked On Phonics today!

Re:What they need.

[Sj0]

Actually, you seem to have about as firm a grip on slashdot as you do on life. There is no editing of posts by moderators or editors on Slashdot. Any glimpse at the -1 moderated posts will show that. All moderators may do is assign a post a score of +1 or -1, which aggregates into the scores seen above every post. By default, Anonymous Cowards start at 0, new users start at 1, and users who have accumulated a certain amount of karma (The summation of non-funny moderations, both positive and negative, affecting a certain poster).

So grow up. You made a typo. And just like it's not myspace's job to protect this dumbfuck from meeting random people in real life, it's not Slashdots job to protect you from typos or spelling mistakes.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

I didn't make a typo, someone edited my post. I know what I said. Why on earth would I say, "blame the idiot?" That's not my argument that is yours. That makes absolutely no sense given my view point of this topic. Maybe someone hacked my post, but the other guys post changed as well. I don't remember his exact quote, but I had quoted what he said to make a point, but then my browser crashed and when I went to repost, his post was altered. Call me illiterate or what you will, but I am not a liar nor am I so dellusional to make up something so stupid. I would not make an argument nor state something like that without just cause, reason or fact.

Re:What they need.

[d!rtyboy]

Resorting to childish insults shows your character, or should I say, lack thereof. Perhaps you truly did deserve to get beaten and robbed or whatever it is you claimed.

Re:What they need.

[LWATCDR]

You where very lucky to have parents willing and able to do that for you. But as I said not every child is alike even in the same family.

Re:What they need.

[Thomas Shaddack]

Because community-based websites and bulletin boards have been around for such a long time, and there are so-o-o-o-o many legal challenges and precedents in that space.

A long list of prior art, relevant to something they call "chatrooms" without closely specifying the underlying technology, here.

There will be also a plethora of precedents where the link layer was not based on the Internet, but on classified personal ads, telephone, and snail-mail. Not even mentioning the in-between step, the BBS systems. But some people still think that addition of TCP/IP means some fundamental, radical change.

One very tangentially relevant case from 1993, occurring purely in the cyberspace, here (with a condensed summary here).

I am seeing activism on the grass roots level against MySpace like I haven't seen since the early 90's (the kind of awareness that laid the groundwork for all the online child protection legislation).

I see just yet another moral panic.

If the "good" community spaces are smart, they will toss MySpace out into the snow with extreme prejudice then circle the wagons before the Clintons and the Liebermans and all the other politicos up for re-election start painting them with the same brush they are currently tarring-up for MySpace.

How? What is a "good" and a "bad" community space?

Right or Wrong, there is a BIG RECKONING coming, and it WILL be impacting business models throughout the 'Net.

It may lead into healthy decentralization and move off the model of umbrella corporations shielding the communities. P2P, anyone? Or the Next Big Thing will be stationed on servers in India or Brazil, out of reach of rabid packs of attorneys. Because this lawsuit is a combination of a routine mishap, big wealthy corporation tangentially involved, and a greedy lawyer.

My Prediction, based on historical precedent? MySpace goes the way of GeoCities (socially un-cool and retro), and the kids all start gravitating to their own (and de-centralized) unique TLDs, just like their neo-adult blogging counterparts.

May quite well happen. Today hot, tomorrow not.

stupid girl

[nihaopaul]

all i'll say is this girl is stupid. and the government is definatly behind this, first terrorism now human intrest.. gawd

Re:stupid girl

[nihaopaul]

sry i forgot to put the noobish comments "FP!"

Re:stupid girl

[RapedByKateMorrow]

This girl was also 14 years old (according to the article.) 14 year old girls are not known to be masters of logic. That's a large part of the reason why it's illegal to have sex with them.

Re:stupid girl

[Anonymous Coward]

"14 year old girls are not known to be masters of logic."

Neither are 19 year old hormone fueled boys.

please type the word in this image: cherry

In other words

[Anonymous Coward]

Where money goes, lawsuits follow.

And right now, Myspace has a lotta money.

Wait what

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:

MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

What kind of 14 year old kid has a credit card or a license?

Re:Wait what

[LiquidCoooled]

I believe the lawyer is trying to call for more security for the 16s on the site.


The lawsuit claims that the Web site does not require users to verify their age and calls the security measures aimed at preventing strangers from contacting users younger than 16 "utterly ineffective."


But the part of the article that really caught my eye was the following:


Lauren Gelman, associate director of the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School, said she does not think MySpace is legally responsible for what happens away from its site.

"If you interact on MySpace, you are safe, but if a 13-year-old or 14-year-old goes out in person and meets someone she doesn't know, that is always an unsafe endeavor," Gelman said. "We need to teach our kids to be wary of strangers."


This lawsuit is just ambulance chasing.

Re:Wait what

[ericdano]

No, but parents do. It would be a good idea for MySpace to be set up in such a way that anyone under 18 needs to have some sort of screening. I know kids who are 12 that have MySpace accounts. It's insane.

I mean, they have to do some sort of screening. Hiding behind some clause in some click through agreement isn't going to work. There is no warnings at all for Adult content on MySpace.

Re:Wait what

[lukas84]

There's adult content on the internet. Oh no. We're all going to die a slow and horrible death. Seriously, what's the problem? That anyone can put content online? Should 12 year old be disallowed to create a website? I don't see any reason why that should be. The internet is not physical. It can't rape you. It can't assault you. It can't touch you. The physical, real world however, can do that. Thats why kids need to be educated properly of risks. You can't screen the internet. At least not the way it is currently built.

Re:Wait what

[QueenOfSwords]

Yeah, it's ambulance chasing.

I am so annoyed with 'mom'. The girl is stupid, and she probably lied to her parents about where she was going, because teens do do that. In fact lets *hope* she lied, because if her mom okayed this without meeting the boy, she's negligent.

But I'm really annoyed with her parents. They failed in their duty of care here after the fact. The girl has had a nasty experience, and she will probably need counselling, but she is still healthy and alive. The perp is in jail. The parent's role now is to be there for her... and reinforce for her that *this is why* you don't go off with strange guys from MySpace. This is *why* when she's so young, she needs to clear her boyfriends with her folks. She might not have been alive to sue anybody.... she was very lucky.

But no. Ohnoes! MySpace! It was the bad innerweb people!

Agggh! *HeadGoBoom*

Re:Wait what

[ericdano]

No, but you can have a site that will police itself and have some sort of standards. MySpace lacks this. I mean, it's supposed to be some sort of social network. Right? And if you have kids on there, and pedophiles as well, wouldn't you want to keep them apart? Or is education of the risks all you are going to rely upon? Creating a site is one thing. Hell, go for it. But MySpace is a "Place for Friends". Are you going to assume EVERYONE is your friend out there and rely on a 14 year old's education to figure it out?

MySpace needs to do screening. It needs a 18 and under safeheaven where they screen things. I mean, they already do this. To view a lot of the content, you have to have an account.

This reminds me of Ebay, or the current Craigslist. At least Ebay has taken steps to verify sellers, and buyers, and give you some sort of protection when buying things. MySpace needs to step up and do something along the same lines. A verification program of some sorts.

Re:Wait what

[lukas84]

Are you going to assume EVERYONE is your friend out there and rely on a 14 year old's education to figure it out?

Nobody should ever assume that "everyone" is your friend. You can be anything you want on the internet. Everything can be spoofed. Theres no way to be secure about anything (There are some exceptions to this, but they don't apply here).
A 14 year old can have the education to be wary of what they read. That needs eduction though.

And if you have kids on there, and pedophiles as well, wouldn't you want to keep them apart?

Yes, but you also have kids and pedophiles in the same, real world. With the only difference that on the internet, a pedophile can't harm you. In the real world, he can.

It needs a 18 and under safeheaven where they screen things.

Dammit. And people over 18 just get the education about issues such as this from where?
Kids need to learn to! If you can read and write on a computer, you should be able to know that ANYONE can write ANYTHING on the internet.

Screening myspace won't help here at all. Nothing helps here. People need education.

Re:Wait what

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but parents do. It would be a good idea for MySpace to be set up in such a way that anyone under 18 needs to have some sort of screening.

That's called "parents" where I come from.

Re:Wait what

[Ethan Allison]

I'm 15, and have both a PayPal cashcard and a valid DL# (trainee licenses still have valid numbers).

Re:Wait what

[Anonymous Coward]

"This lawsuit is just ambulance chasing."

Unfortunately, myspace will most likely pay a settlement to make this frivolous lawsuit go away quickly and the plaintiff will be rewarded handsomely for being a bad parent.

Re:Wait what

[Anonymous Coward]

So what is this magic "screen" that will prevent the 19-year old from claiming to be 17 or 16 and meeting underage girls? Are you going to pay some to read all their chat to look from them planning to meet each other? Automated filters to block, "Meet me at the mall"?

Re:Wait what

[stanmann]

If Myspace settles this they are fools, because that opens the floodgates.

"Millions for defense But not one penny tribute"

Re:Wait what

[Anonymous Coward]

Suing MySpace for this is like suing penthouse for getting carpel tunnel.

"In May, after a series of emails and phone calls"

[HugePedlar]

I didn't know Myspace was a pre-requisite for the exchange of emails and phone calls, nor that the going rate for "facilitating" rape was thirty fucking million dollars.

mooches mooches

[filthy_mcnasty]

As much as I detest Myspace and would absolutely love to see them go down.... this is just another frivilous lawsuit with someone trying to play the scapegoat game. Encountering a sexual predator on Myspace is no different than any other million sites where this could have happened but if it weren't for the deep pockets myspace has generated there would be no lawsuit. The users of sites like these (and hell, users of anything in general!!!) are still responsible for THEIR OWN actions and while I'm sorry that she was victimized, this young girl (or rather, her lawyers / parents) is now trying to create another victim. Give me a break, accept responsibility for your own actions. This isn't because "Myspace didn't protect me"

Re:mooches mooches

[solarbob]

If she found the same info in the lonley hearts in the newspaper would she sue that paper? Of course not as they would take her to the cleaners by exposing her on the front page (well the british papers would). What about if you met someone in a nighyclub and same thing happened...

Re:mooches mooches

[grumpyman]

Ditto. Next thing you know some gal sues yahoo for the same reason. But the difference is that there's 1 more zero.

Re:mooches mooches

[Antony-Kyre]

It is definitely a frivolous lawsuit. MySpace isn't liable in any way as I can see it. The only possible way they'd be liable is if they made some sort of false claim that they can 100% protect children.

There will be winners in this lawsuit though. By how it makes it to the media, it might make parents more aware that they should be monitoring what their kids are doing, whether it's online or offline. More winners will be the lawyers from both sides, which I assume get paid whether or not they win the case.

Re:mooches mooches

[Killshot]

Why do you want to see myspace "go down"?

I dislike myspace because of all the social networking sites out there it is probably the worst one. But I don't want to see it go down. Just.. don't use it or something.

Re:mooches mooches

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah, kids! I met my wife on eBay!

Re:mooches mooches

[Tofflos]

The nightclub isn't that great a comparison. Most nightclubs are required to verify their customers age. If a minor was allowed in, and the same thing happened, the parents would have a stronger case.

Perhaps if you replace "a nightclub" with "McDonalds" you'd get a better comparison. McDonalds isn't required to verify their customers age and like MySpace they have very deep pockets.

Re:mooches mooches

[rehtonAesoohC]

As much as I detest Myspace and would absolutely love to see them go down....

That's exactly what the 19 year old said in the first place that got him into this whole mess!

Re:mooches mooches

[kchrist]

Most nightclubs are required to verify their customers age.

And there's a brisk business in fake IDs in the Los Angeles area. I've known a lot of people who were going to clubs at 15 and 16. I can't speak for these days, but not so long ago it wasn't unusual at all.

Getting justice twice?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't she already get justice by having the 19-year-old jailed?

Re:Getting justice twice?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even possibly, the 19 year olds actions have been exaggerated to facilitate this greed based lawsuit.

Re:Getting justice twice?

[Thwomp]

Yes, but now she wants ju$tice.

Re:Getting justice twice?

[bitt3n]

Doesn't she already get justice by having the 19-year-old jailed?

As Marcus Aurelius once observed, "A man cannot gold-plate his Ferrari with justice alone."

Re:Getting justice twice?

[anaesthetica]

Yes, but she doesn't get rich from justice. That's where MySpace comes in...

Re:Getting justice twice?

[Anonymous Coward]

whow who said anything about justice here this is purely about dollars. If anything none except mySpace wants justice.

i'm conflicted

[circletimessquare]

on the one hand, personal responsibility, and responsibility of the parents, surrenders: bad thing

on the other hand, this could destroy myspace: good thing

Re:i'm conflicted

[ericdano]

This is true. Parents who give kids unlimited access to the internet and have no clue what little Joe or Sarah is doing. On the other hand, MySpace doesn't do a shred of checking or policing of the site. No warnings of adult pictures (I've never seen any warnings), or content.

Prediction: Big changes ahead for MySpace. A crackdown on content.

Re:i'm conflicted

[Shawn is an Asshole]

While I too do not like the whole Myspace thing, it can be a very useful site.

For example, I have multiple accounts. One has my real name assigned to it, along with my schools. So far several people I knew in high school have contacted me (I'm 24, btw). I've fouund and contacted people I knew. I've been able to meet up with them again, which has been cool.

I also keep another around for talking to women. Myspace has been great for that. Thank's to it, I'm dating two women right now. I've met several others though it, too.

Re:i'm conflicted

[dalutong]

on the other hand, this could destroy myspace: good thing

Thank you. I don't know why people seem to like myspace so much. The few sites on myspace I've ever seen are some of the ugliest, 1997 geocities-type, sites I've ever seen. What do people see in myspace?

Re:i'm conflicted

[smellsofbikes]

I remember people on Usenet saying the same thing about the Web. (I agreed with them.)

Myspace has a zillion users and scads of (dubious) information, mostly targetted at the interests of young hip people. Sooooooo, young hip people find it useful.

Re:i'm conflicted

[Anonymous Coward]

I also keep another around for talking to women. Myspace has been great for that. Thank's to it, I'm dating two women right now. I've met several others though it, too.

Watch your back, you could be deemed a rapist at any moment.

I hope you provided neither of them with any real personal information that could identify you. Do not let them see your liscence plates or anything that could allow them to ruin you.

They will not hesitate to use the awesome power they have been granted.

Re:i'm conflicted

[jb.hl.com]

I dunno. Meeting new people? Finding new music?

I'm aware my MySpace page is (consciously, and as a parody) an abomination unto the Interweb, but hell, there's nothing wrong with MySpace. It's peoples' way of expressing themselves, just as your way is posting on Slashdot/designing websites or whatever.

Re:i'm conflicted

[ClamIAm]

This will not destroy Myspace, and for several reasons.

The first is that it is owned by News Corporation. That's right, Rupert Murdoch, Mr. I-can-broadcast-my-ideology-to-billions-worlwide himself. There is no way that it could financially ruin the company.

The second is that Myspace is not, right now, seen as a profit-making business. It is more a venture into social websites, and what they can be good for in business. This may not even be profit, as other strategic things (like social control) could be more advantageous.

Hi..

[hyfe]

Hi, your honour.

I am stupid. Please make them give me money.

Re:Hi..

[Anonymous Coward]

At least she learned that being naive is dangerous. She should be thankful for that.

Re:Hi..

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is, we're all ultimately responsible for our own actions, as we're the ones who have to live with the consequences. Since she's young, her parents should have helped her.

And she didn't experience the worst thing evar, that would probably be being killed/maimed. Sure, it is shameful, dangerous and unpleasant. But this extreme attitude that the victim should feel extreme shame their entire lives needs to go.

The guy is in jail, and why is myspace being sued again?

Re:Hi..

[NeuroAcid]

Yes, give me money, like these people Time once again to review the winners of the Annual "Stella Awards." The Stella Awards are named after 81year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued McDonald's (in NM). That case inspired the Stella Awards for the most frivolous, ridiculous, successful lawsuits in the United States. Here are this year's winners: 5th Place (tie): Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas, was awarded $80,000. by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little toddler was Ms. Robertson'sson. 5th Place (tie): 19-year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn'tnotice there was someone at the wheel of the car whenhe was trying to steal his neighbor's hu bcaps. 5th Place (tie): Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of thegarage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was malfunctioning.He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulledit shut. The family was on vacation, and Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. He sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed, to the tune of $500,000. In my opinion this is so outrageous that it should have been 2nd Place! 4th Place: Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded $14,500. and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. The award was less than so ught because the jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked at the time by Mr. Williams who had climbed over the fence into the yard and was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun. 3rd Place: A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500. after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx (tailbone). The beverage was on the floor because Ms.Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument. 2ndPlace: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses. 1st Place: This year's runaway winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mrs. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home, (from an OU football game), having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver's seat to go into the back & make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mrs.Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising her in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually do this. The jury awarded her $1,750,000. plus a new motor home. The company actually changed their manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there were any other complete morons around.

Re:Hi..

[Sj0]

Have you ever MET a 14 year old girl? Maybe in your little chocolate fantasy land filled with cupids and dancing sugar nymphs who protect our dreams from the evil but lovable warlords with cute names and lovable incompotent sidekicks, where the happy days wash by with a cinnamon breeze alongside a taffy ocean, where the sea turtles are always up for adventure and life is a never-ending cacophanous orgasmic high, maybe there 14 year old girls are innocent. Having had to watch one (I wasn't responsible for) stagger in after midnight reeking of alcohol and watching her roll around on the ground all night, hoping she didn't leave this mortal coil before morning (Becuase even though I'm not responsible for her, I'm no mini-human), I find compassion extremely hard to come by. If the 14 year olds I've known are any indication, the "sexual assault" wasn't likely to be rape, and she likely wasn't innocent, and this is probably just a mini-quarrel among mini-humans.

Re:Hi..

[fribhey]

Since she's young, her parents should have helped her.

you need to reword that, it should be:

Since she's young, her parents should have PROTECTED her, it's their responsibility, not myspace's job to protect her.

Re:Hi..

[Anonymous Coward]

USE WHITE SPACE.
I'll repeat: USE WHITE SPACE.
One more time so it sticks in your head: USE WHITE SPACE.

Maybe then I'll read your post.

Re:Hi..

[stanmann]

Nobody is saying anything bad about the 19 year old because he got arrested, and will likely get his just deserts.

OTOH, some of us live in the real world, and know what 19 year old Seniors who play football want from 14 year old freshman girls, and will be certain to warn our daughters(should we have them) to beware.

yay

[slashdotnickname]

As an 18 year old big-breasted girl myself, I can totally relate.

Re:yay

[HugePedlar]

Relate to whom? None of us here. ;)

Re:yay

[grahagre]

wow, just... wow. on /. of all places

Re:yay

[Opportunist]

Since on the internet, 99% of the women are men, we require proof of your statement.

Especially of the "big-breasted" part!

Re:yay

[Anonymous Coward]

Please post pics!!!!!

Re:yay

[Anonymous Coward]

Aw come on... I'm sure plenty of slashdotters have large manboobs!

Re:yay

[MartinJW]

Want to meet up down at the mall?

Re:yay

[zeptic]

Judging by your nickname you're probably blond too.

Re:yay

[Anonymous Coward]

As an 18 year old big-breasted girl...

Where is the link? On /. proof is must.

Re:yay

[cynical kane]

I'll relate to her.

Guess what?

[Mancat]

You are not entitled to money for being stupid and immature. You should not be meeting STRANGERS over the internet, where nothing is ever as it seems, and most people lie about their most basic personal traits.

Re:Guess what?

[notanatheist]

You mean you wouldn't believe me if I told you I was 5'8", blonde, 34C, athletic, 18, and I want you? I can even send you a picture. Let me search Google images for a good one.

How can they?

[GFLPraxis]

The lawsuit is just plain stupid. I simply don't understand HOW someone can 'verify' their age over the computer. Short of requiring everyone to scan some sort of documentation of their age and requiring MySpace to hire a staff of thousands more people to daily comb through each user one by one as they register (simply not practical), there is no possible way MySpace (or ANY site on the internet that doesn't require a credit card for that matter) can verify it. They're basicly sueing MySpace for not doing the impossible.

Re:How can they?

[HugePedlar]

TFA states that Myspace was told to require credit card verification, so that answers your question. I'd say RTFA, except that for some reason, since ten minutes ago, it suddenly requires registration.

Re:How can they?

[RapedByKateMorrow]

They could require a credit card.

Re:How can they?

[Ron Bennett]

Many minors have credit cards; they alone can't be used to verify age ... furthermore, the major credit card companies make clear that credit cards are NOT to be used for age verification purposes.

Verifying age solely on-line is darn near impossible ...

A possible, but expensive, way MySpace could reliably verify age of new users is to open staffed registration centers (could be small staffed kiosks in malls, superstores, etc) throughout the U.S. and other various countries, in which new users would appear in person with a government photo ID / birth certificate, etc in hand along with a parent / guardian, if under the age of majority (gets a bit tricky, since "majority" can defined as something other than 18 in some jurisdictions; age 21 often works when in doubt)...

Bottom line is that verifying age solely on-line is a near impossibility - to do so reliably requires some form of off-line verification procedure, which will require much resources and money to do ...

A simplier answer is for parents to take responsibility and be more aware of what their children do; educate kids so they make smarter, more informed choices about how they conduct themselves.

Ron

Re:How can they?

[EndlessNameless]

MySpace was told to require credit card verification by no one who had any authority over them.

If there was a law regarding identity verification that they failed to follow, then and only then are they at fault.

Suppose this girl got dropped off at the mall to hang out with some friends, and she met this guy there. Should we sue the mall for its role in the situation? How is the mall doing anything differently from what MySpace does?

Parents should teach their children not to run off alone with strangers, particularly older ones. The responsibility is shared between the guy for being a worthless piece of scum, the girl for being stupid, and her parents for not teaching her any better. If anyone should be sued, it is the guy... you know, the one who actually acted with malicious intent.

But wait, he probably doesn't have any money, and that's what this is all about.

Re:How can they?

[lukas84]

you know, the one who actually acted with malicious intent.

Was that really the case? Now, see, i know this question isn't politically correct at all, but it is necessary.

Some stupid 13 year old girl had sex with a guy.
Afterwards she finds out that she wasn't really ready for it yet. But it can't be undone.
Her parents find out, because of whatever.
She claims rape, so that her parents don't punish her.

Guy gets all the troubles.

Assuming the above is true:
Yes, he did something which was wrong by US law. This would've been legal in other countries, like Spain for example.
He should still be punished for this.

However, if he gets sentenced for rape, this is another thing entirely.

Re:How can they?

[Opportunist]

There's a business idea in there somewhere...

Re:How can they?

[kubrick]

Suppose this girl got dropped off at the mall to hang out with some friends, and she met this guy there. Should we sue the mall for its role in the situation?

Yes, we should. I believe the legal 'principle' involved means going after the party with the largest bank balance, on the grounds that it's easier for them to pay you to go away; see SCO vs IBM, or countless dubious patent infringement lawsuits.

Re:How can they?

[ZeroExistenZ]

Verifying age solely on-line is darn near impossible ...

eID. Nearly every Belgian has one.
Just pop it into your cardreader, enter your PIN-code and your age is verified.
Oh it also has digital signing and other neat gizmo's :)

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, being 29 without any kind of credit card, I wouldn't be old enough? And even if I had one, I wouldn't give them my credit card number unless I was going to *buy* something. You know, that's what credit cards are for...

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called statuatory rape, and it IS illegal for a reason. I don't consider myself a prude, I'm quite liberal when it comes to stuff like this, but even I think that having sex with someone that young when you're that old should be considered a crime. I would have an age of consent of 17 for anyone, and 14 but ONLY if your partner is within, say, 2 years of your age.

They are arbitrary numbers, but I still think it's better than the alternatives.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Writer]

... that will soon be patented

Re:How can they?

[tacarat]

MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott sent a letter to the MySpace.com chief executive officer May 22, asking him to require users to verify their age and identity with a credit card or verified e-mail account.

Asking Myspace to require credit card identification isn't the same as ordering them to. Sorry.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well said sir. You are absolutely right!

Re:How can they?

[Just_a_Girl81]

im 25 and dont have a credit card i wouldn't give it out if i did have one.

Re:How can they?

[Jeom2]

Bottom line is. Will efficient age verification process protect anyone from being assaulted? Any girl could be raped by a bloke her own age for all I know. Further more it (efficient age verification) would give a false feeling of security and trust. Online Dating? not an easy problem at all.

Re:How can they?

[Opportunist]

...but not realized.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Allow the government to track your every move both offline and online.
2) ???
3) 1984!

Re:How can they?

[Valdoran]

Every Belgian? Not yet, buddy. ;) From the people I know, I'm one of the only ones with one. But yeah, in a few years we'll all have one.

Re:How can they?

[GoblinKiller]

In Sweden we can also get a similiar e-id and use it when we're in contact with the government for example. Also every new european identity card comes along with a pin-code - maybe something that can be used online? Another idea would be an ability conduct easy and fast blood tests at home which could be checked towards a national database over the population by a website and in that way determine the identity of a person. No matter what it need to be a trusted instance that conducts all of these identifications because the same minute that I give away something at the internet that can be used to identify me others will also be able to be identified as me. It's like having your fingerprint shared on the internet and that's a problem in itself - nothing and no one can be trusted on the internet. There needs to be a secure connection between real life and the internet.

Re:How can they?

[houghi]

A possible, but expensive, way MySpace could reliably verify age of new users is to open staffed registration centers

You mean something like the way that minors can't get alcohol in the US?

Re:How can they?

[andymadigan]

Perhaps they have changed the law since this, but from what I've seen of statutory rape laws it is illegal for a minor to have sex unless they can prove in court they knew their partner was within 4 years of their age. ( I believe there is a further age limit like it's illegal anyway if you're under 14 ) This is NYS.

Re:How can they?

[houghi]

Oh and for you people who are afraid of what this card can do and everything should be avaialable for everybody and this is so 1984: The source and some Dutch and French info.

SUSE has it as an eID-belgium RPM:

Summary : Software for belgian eID card
Description :
This PKCS11 library can be used for cryptographic operations with the
Belgian electronic identity card. For example, you could use it to
authenticate yourself (e.g. on a web site) or for signing electronic
documents with a legally binding signature.
Distribution: SUSE LINUX 10.0 (i586)

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bottom line is that verifying age solely on-line is a near impossibility

And better that it stays this way. The potential for anonymity on the internet is one of the best features of the internet. I certainly don't want everything I do on the internet to be listed on my resume.

Re:How can they?

[houghi]

Parents should teach their children not to run off alone with strangers, particularly older ones.

The sad thing is that the majority of sexual harassments are not done by strangers, but by relatives and family.

That does not mean that strangers won't do such bad things. It is just that the focuspoint should be on preventing child abuse and sexual harassment in general, not just those that are done by strangers.

Re:How can they?

[heffeque]

Why wouldn't the government want minors accesing alcohol? Oh yeah, alcohol and sex are bad, guns and violence are ok.

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Guy gets all the troubles.

As well he should. The 19-year old invited a 14-year old back to his place with the intent of having sex with her. Is there something else I'm missing in this picture?

Yes, he did something which was wrong by US law. This would've been legal in other countries, like Spain for example.

Then perhaps if he wants to pull this sort of crap he should head off there first. A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable. A 19-year old should have known better.

Re:How can they?

[klang]

yes it will. As a infrigment lawsuit.

Re:How can they?

[tacocat]

For the sake of humanity she really must lose the lawsuit.

The internet is a wonderful social tool. It brings people closer. Including the people you don't want to be close to. Once upon a time in order to find a variety of people I had to travel many miles from my parents suburban home to find such culture and people. Today I can find all the culture I can stand in about 30 seconds and three clicks. Good and Bad people abound both on the internet and off. There are things such as "dark alleys" on the internet too. And just like it's the responsibility of the parents to keep our 14 year old daughters from roaming alleys and talking to predatory individuals, it's also our responsibility to keep them off the alleys and steer them away from certain areas on the internet. Where was Mom and Dad when the minor went on a date with a 19 year old? MySpace is not a surrogate parent or baby sitter and makes no claims to be.

Re:How can they?

[ZeroExistenZ]

Nearly ;)

At least in this region (Vlaams Brabant); I've got mine for about 2 years now...

Re:How can they?

[Opportunist]

Well, it WILL be implemented, but not by the ones that filed the patent for it. They'll just sit like a spider in their web and lurk for someone to actually pump the dough into the idea to make it, then sue them...

Somehow, this story perpetuates itself.

Re:How can they?

[klang]

This would've been legal in other countries, like Spain for example.

The age of consent in Spain is 15.

The lowest age I know about is 14 .. and that's Japan.

Re:How can they?

[geminidomino]

I like the assumption that it was the guy who lied about his age... Nowhere in TFA does it mention which side gave the bogus info. Was he a pedo claming to be 15, or was she being a typical teenage girl claiming to be older than she is?

Re:How can they?

[lukas84]

Age of Consent Chart says 13.

Re:How can they?

[Valdoran]

Really? I'm in the same region, I've mine for a few months, and no-one else I now does. Ah well. :P

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, what has age verification got to do with anything? 16 year-olds can be and have been guilty of sexual assault ...
Anyway, this is just another moronic law suit and those are going to keep clogging up courts unless someone decides to start throwing these things out right away before even going to trial!

Re:How can they?

[nstlgc]

There is no (decent?) age verification on MySpace, but I can not find any story saying the boy actually lied about his age. He lied about being a football team captain, but age? Not sure there.

Money money money...

Re:How can they?

[ZeroExistenZ]

My gf just got hers just a few months ago as well.

Maybe I just was very lucky :p

Re:How can they?

[Kartheris]

Yes, but when you generalize the problem, you have to have more than one solution. Not being to trusting of older strangers is just a solution to a small part of the problem.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

grandparent: Verifying age solely on-line is darn near impossible ...

parent: eID. Nearly every Belgian has one.

And presumably you have to show up in person to get one, right? Prove your identity, show a passport, etc? That's not really verifying age online - that's just having a trusted third party perform the necessary offline verification for you. That is a scheme that would work well for MySpace/etc, of course, because the costs involved in performing this meatworld verification are dumped on the taxpayers at large rather than any particular company, but I would hardly call it online age verification.

Re:How can they?

[Just Some Guy]

The sad thing is that the majority of sexual harassments are not done by strangers, but by relatives and family.

Got a reference for that? I'm not saying you're wrong, but my understanding was that date rape was a lot more common than incest.

That does not mean that strangers won't do such bad things. It is just that the focuspoint should be on preventing child abuse and sexual harassment in general, not just those that are done by strangers.

Even if you're right on the first part, external parties like MySpace can't do a lot to prevent family abuse. It's not like some sick bastard has to go online to meet his daughter. Finally, the scum that abuse their own kids aren't likely to be really big on teaching their kids prevention.

Re:How can they?

[Magada]

Oh but they could... if everyone had a *secure* biometric ID card issued at birth or shortly thereafter. Right?

Re:How can they?

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Or perhaps they both wanted to make the two-backed beast and didn't really care about the age thing.

Re:How can they?

[McTaggart]

I wonder how much of this is the child suing MySpace and how much is the parents and/or the lawyer milking it for every last cent.

Re:How can they?

[stanmann]

Ok, Here's what I got from the story, Slightly precocious 14 year old freshman female meets Somewhat Non-precocious(being generous here) 19 year old Senior online instead of in the cafeteria or study hall, goes to dinner, a movie, and his place and does what seniors and freshman do. Buyers remorse Blah Blah Blah.

happens all the time, in every school, in every city. The only difference in this case was she met him on myspace instead of "at the library". It sucks to be him, but its not the schools fault and its not myspace's fault.

Re:How can they?

[Nikker]

Whats to stop someone from just plain lying? "This is my *brothers* account hes 19, I'm really 14...."

It is very simple, there is no verification of anything on the net. This is like searching around for some metric to judge evreyone else, it not only won't work it can't work. We will hear things like, "she said she had an athletic build ... I was mislead" and "he didn't say he was pastey white and lived in his mom's basement".

The truth of the matter is you cannot verrify someone over the internet using the same methods we use in person, it really is a diffrent thing. Both parties/people are comfortable in their anonimity and feel free to bs all the things they know they could'nt in person. It's like trying to repetedly fit the square peg into a round hole, we just have to find a method of explaination or understanding that will make people realize this.

Re:How can they?

[geminidomino]

I haven't discounted that possibility either. The sad part is, it doesn't matter. As the comments here, by the supposedly "intelligent" cross-section of society, show, there is no way this guy is going to get a fair judgement.

She consented? No good, she's under 16, she's too stupid to make that decision. That capability doesn't magically appear until the day of her 16th birthday.
She lied about her age? Tough. He should have checked her ID.
He tried to break it off when he found out the truth and the whole "sexual assault" thing is typical teenage girl petty revenge? Well, sucks to be him.

Lots of possibilities here besides the simple "the guy is a sick pedo." But no one will consider any. He's better off just hanging himself in his jail cell right now. Even if by some miracle he's innocent and aquitted of wrongdoing, he's already been judged.

Re:How can they?

[RockModeNick]

That doesn't work, because 1) a minor can get one under certain circumstances(a parent cosigning with the minor) 2) credit cards companies specifically state that they are not for age verification.

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Buyers remorse Blah Blah Blah.

The article (on my reading anyway) doesn't mention if it was consensual sex, buyers remorse, or if the guy forced himself onto her. Nor does it mention what age each of the participants thought the other was, represented themselves as, or what their intentions were. Please correct me if I am wrong.

No doubt there are many cases of "buyers remorse". I've heard of people with only a couple of degrees separation from myself that have done something entirely consensual but incredibly stupid with someone just underage, and have it bite them on the ass when buyers remorse hit. It doesn't make their act any less stupid, excluding the ones who genuinely didn't know.

What is dangerous however is the assumption that this case was buyers remorse. It could have been, but the article doesn't suggest it one way or the other. There is a world of difference between consent then regret and no consent at all.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the girl was physically mature (ie a woman) she could have easily been anywhere from 13-20years old. I used to work as a waiter and one evening we had ina little faqmily group celebrating a girl's birthday. She was BEAUTIFUL. She genuinely looked like a supermodel - beautiful eyes, face, skin, hair, breasts, tall, shapely - quite beautiful. Naturally us waiters were cooing over her and wondering how old she was - the consensus was 17 or 18. Turned out it was her THIRTEENTH BIRTHDAY. I was 22 at the time and it made me feel weird that I was so entranced by someone nearly 10years younger than me. She was exceptional, no doubt, but you only have to drive past a high school to see the range of physical maturity that teenagers span. If the guy was 19 and the girl claimed to be 16 or 17, he could hardly be called a "pedo" (paedophiles are sexually attracted to THE PHYSICALLY IMMATURE, not people below a certain age). Frankly, it it pretty common for girls to have boyfriends 2 or 3 years older than they are during their teens. I'm not sure what the problem with this is - though rape is rape is rape and ANY rapist should be tried as such if there is evidence.

Quite where micebase fits in is a bit of a mystery to me.

Re:How can they?

[BobVH]

My sister got one as her first ID, and now they systematically replacing all the regular ID's.
Do you really use it though? Is there linux/*bsd/... support for the cardreaders?

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, you mean besides the gradual transformation of the state into a totalitarian regime with complete control over you and knowledge of your every action? Nope, no possible downsides. Comeon, you're just a step away from RFID tags implanted into everyone. Why not bar codes while you're at it?

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

She lied about her age?
He tried to break it off when he found out the truth and the whole "sexual assault" thing is typical teenage girl petty revenge?

These are some fairly big assumptions. They may or not be true. Do you have a source for them?

Lots of possibilities here besides the simple "the guy is a sick pedo." But no one will consider any.

I'd check the other replies in the thread. Some very big assumptions are being made by other posters without much in the way of backing. I'd say that other options are being considered.

The case will make it to court and he will be tried. As mentioned in another post in this thread, the article doesn't mention if it was consensual sex, buyers remorse, or if the guy forced himself onto her. Nor does it mention what age each of the participants thought the other was, represented themselves as, or what their intentions were.

In the case that the guy genuinely had no idea that she was underaged and it was entirely consensual, I do fear you're right that he'll be judged regardless.

Re:How can they?

[One Childish N00b]

Worthless piece of scum? Dude, you realise this is the mother of the 14-year-old suing, and not the 14-year-old?

The 14-year-old in all reality probably consented to whatever went on - maybe it's different across the pond but here in the UK pretty much ever girl, from thirteen and up, wants a 18+ boyfriend with a car and fat wallet - yeah, the guys are wrong for going along with it, but it's hardly 'worthless piece of scum' time - girls of that age are more likely to want a boyfriend of 19 than one of their own age (for the record, my girlfriend is 18, as am I).

If you let someone take you out on a date, and then go back to their place, you are obviously not being forced against your will to do those things - the girl spent many hours talking to this boy, via emails, phone calls, etc, and I'd bet you any money you like 'cybering' of some sort was involved, from both sides - I really doubt this guy sprang this on her after pretending to innocently take her out to dinner and a movie... but hey, one overzealous soccer mom finds out her underage daughter made out with a guy of 19 and it becomes 'sexual assault'. The article mentions a 27-year-old assaulting a 13-year-old, yeah, that guy's a 'worthless piece of scum' as I'm betting he lied about a lot more than one year and it was a lot less consentual, but this? This is just a teenage girl wanting an older boyfriend, her mom finding out and going apeshit, with the nice added bonus that if she keeps going apeshit she might get $30m in her back pocket.

Parents of teen girls: Girls of that age are sexually aware. Most girls that age want a dude with a car. This means that given the oppertunity they will jump their bones. Don't like it? Watch your damn children! If I'd spent hours on the phone to strangers every day my parents would sure as hell know about it, and if I arranged to meet anyone I met on the internet, alone, my mum'd still kick my ass for being so stupid even now.

Re:How can they?

[nwbvt]

What, parents taking responsibility for their kids?

Re:How can they?

[Chowderbags]

Oman and Pakistan don't have an age of consent, Mexico is 12 (unless their was deceit), Columbia is 12 for females and 14 for males, Chile is 12. Go look down the list: http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this actually a new thought for you or are you just mentally masturbating?

Re:How can they?

[ggKimmieGal]

It's actually fairly simple. State that users of the site must be 18 years of age. Require that everyone purchase an account through the use of a credit card. In the USA, minors cannot sign up for a credit card without consent of the parent. If the parent gives the child their credit card number, or their own credit card, then the parent is the one who is fully responsible for the child, and it is not on MySpace.

Now, obviously this has to be implemented from day 1. What should MySpace do now? Honestly, if I were them, I would turn this completely around. I would have all of my PR people working on making MySpace look like the victim, and turning the parent into the enemy. I would then implement new security features throughout the site. Force people who are signing up from this point forward to be 18 through the above method (unless I totally missed some big hole with my plan). Require an age to be posted (I don't use MySpace, so I don't know if that is there or not). I would go to court, but I would not act defensive. I would simply keep stating, "where were the parents?"

There is always the possibility that the parents had no real idea where their daughter was. It is not uncommon for a little girl to lie to her parents and say, "I'm going to the mall with some girlfriends!" And to then go to the movies with some boy. So are the parents really to blame? Definitely on some level for not monitoring what their underage daughter was doing online. Chances are though, they aren't completely at fault.

Re:How can they?

[geminidomino]

These are some fairly big assumptions. They may or not be true. Do you have a source for them?

No, but, as you are already aware, there's equal source (i.e. none) to assume it was rape or that the guy was the one lying about his age, which seems to be a fairly common position among the 'dotters active in these threads. I was just going the opposite extreme to make the point that it doesn't matter. His life is concluded, he might as well punch his ticket now.

Re:How can they?

[YrWrstNtmr]

eID. Nearly every Belgian has one. Just pop it into your cardreader, enter your PIN-code and your age is verified.

That just verifies that someone behind the keyboard is in posession of the eID card of someone of a certain age. It does nothing to (and cannot possibly) verify that the fingers on the keyboard actually belong to face and identity on the card. The PIN helps, but still is not certain.

Re:How can they?

[a_nonamiss]

Great idea. Require credit card verification to prove one's age. I mean, it's always worked for online porn. There are certainly NO minors getting their hands onto that stuff.

Also, it's a good thing it's impossible to use a stolen credit card. I mean, this guy's willing to forcibly sexually assault an underage girl, but he certainly wouldn't have enough guts to steal a credit card...

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

No, but, as you are already aware, there's equal source (i.e. none) to assume it was rape or that the guy was the one lying about his age, which seems to be a fairly common position among the 'dotters active in these threads. I was just going the opposite extreme to make the point that it doesn't matter. His life is concluded, he might as well punch his ticket now.

The article specifically mentions his arrest and a police statement that he sexually assaulted her. Having said that, it isn't clear from the article what his position is (there's no indication at all) and whether he has been tried or charged, so it's very hard to tell what the circumstances in the case are.

Re:How can they?

[a_nonamiss]

OK, I slightly misread TFA. I realize in this case that it's the victim who is suing for protection from herself, but at some point, we parents really need to do a better job of watching our kids. The Internet is like a big city. There are great opportunities for education and enlightenment, but that doesn't mean you should let them walk around alone.

Re:How can they?

[tomjen]

Yes, It is clear that there is no prior art here. I mean - parents taking care of their kids???

Re:How can they?

[ThinkingInBinary]

<whine>I WANT ONE!</whine>

Seriously, that's really cool. I know if something like that was ever going to be rolled out in the U.S., it 1) wouldn't, because people would be scared of privacy issues, and it 2) would have all the fun crypto removed, because people here are stupid and would think (maybe rightfully, who knows) that it would allow the government to spy on your computer or that adding good crypto to something makes it vulnerable to hackerz! (People here are idiots sometimes. I wish they weren't.)

Re:How can they?

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

Verifying age solely on-line is darn near impossible ...

It certainly is when your policy is to not even try to verify. Frankly, I have no interest at all in MySpace. My 13 year old nephew is addicted to it. The amount of time he spends there is unreal. His dad, my brother, complains about it but seemingly does little to nothing to limit his time. Now in case you don't know this, MySpace has a rule that you have to be 14 years old to go onto it. So how do my 13 year old nephew and his 12-13 year old friends get on MySpace and set up their accounts? Simple. They say that they are 99 years old. I have no idea if this is even possible, but if you could search for people by age, I suspect that MySpace has a rather large number of supposed 99 year old members. When all you do to "verify" age is ask someone how old they are, yes, verification is darn near impossible.

Re:How can they?

[Gorshkov]

TFA states that Myspace was told to require credit card verification, so that answers your question. I'd say RTFA, except that for some reason, since ten minutes ago, it suddenly requires registration.

Does that mean I can now sue them for discrimination?

I'm 47 years old. I have never had a credit card in my life .... and I don't have a driver's liscense, either.

Re:How can they?

[dsgitl]

Right. And further, what is the difference, really, between getting assaulted by a 14-year-old or a 19-year-old? It's a tragedy either way, but I don't see how MySpace is culpable in one scenario and not the other.

Perhaps I'm just too old to fully appreciate the social networking aspect of MySpace, but it seems there would have been some agreement upon signing up wherein you are told NOT to share personal inforamation (such as your address) and are forced to absolve MySpace of any responsibility for any consequences of your poor decision making.

Again, this is a realy tragedy for this child. She should be very, very upset at the 19-year-old male who assaulted her. But just as internet predator victims can't sue AOL, I don't see how see can successfully sue MySpace. And $30 million? Wow. Good luck.

Re:How can they?

[Jaysyn]

WTF good is a verified email account going to do anyhow?

Re:How can they?

[curecollector]

A possible, but expensive, way MySpace could reliably verify age of new users is to open staffed registration centers

So instead of minors lurking around outside the liquor store, trying to get a grown-up to buy them a case of beer, there'll be grown-ups lurking around outside of the MySpace kiosk trying to get kids to get them an account? :)

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, I'm also from Vlaam-Brabant, and don't have one. But my sister had to replace her ID a couple of months ago and got the new ones.

Re:How can they?

[r2q2]

Humanity doesn't exactly follow what is best for it. Some humans are just greedy.

Re:How can they?

[It's all Krista's Fa]

Guns and violence vs alcohol and sex. Guess which side would win?

Re:How can they?

[geminidomino]

Having said that, it isn't clear from the article what his position is (there's no indication at all) and whether he has been tried or charged, so it's very hard to tell what the circumstances in the case are.

That's my point. I strongly doubt it MATTERS what the circumstances of the criminal case are unless he's got logs,emails,&c. proving both consent and lying about her age. And even then, he's already been branded.

Re:How can they?

[tyler_larson]

He was 19 years old. He told her, instead, that he was a high school senior. High school seniors are usually around 18 years old. So the 14-year-old girl went out with a guy she thought was around 18, but it turned out he was actually 19.

If only she had known ahead of time... Damn you MySpace! Damn you!

Re:How can they?

[Stone Pony]

It certainly seems to be the case in the UK. This research document, produced for the Home Office (the government department responsible for crime policy) in 2002 concludes that strangers were one of the least likely groups to commit rape (chapter 5, particularly figure 5.1).

There are obvious issues about data collection and definition (which are acknowledged and addressed in the report, but spread across too many places to really note in a message board posting - you'll have to skim the whole 132 pages for yourself!), particularly given the nature of the offence and the fact that the British Crime Survey is a self-complete questionnaire; but the BCS is generally held to be the most authoritative of the several different statistical measures of crime in the UK.

Re:How can they?

[odourpreventer]

because the costs involved in performing this meatworld verification are dumped on the taxpayers at large rather than any particular company

At least, it only has to be done once. Not once for every service.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not fair! What if we want violence and sex (Hey, some girls are kinky!)

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

That's my point.

Sorry, I wasn't terribly clear. I was agreeing with you.

I strongly doubt it MATTERS what the circumstances of the criminal case are unless he's got logs,emails,&c. proving both consent and lying about her age.

No doubt such things would help his case. Physical evidence would suggest the possibility of consent or lack thereof; I'd rather not elaborate.

And even then, he's already been branded.

Yes, as mentioned previously, very likely. And in the case his intent was actually good (ie. he didn't know, she looked much older, and she came onto him), a sad and terrible shame.

Now that's a lot of Slashdot posting for one evening. Time for me to go to bed soon methinks. ;)

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, an open source implementation makes it right. Just like having to show your regular old paper ID card before buying a book and having the transaction registered would be ok, because the card is written in plain Dutch and French, and anyone can read it. Are you stupid or just distracted?

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Solis contacted the girl through her MySpace Web site in April, telling her that he was a high school senior who played on the football team, according to the lawsuit.

Sounds to me like he claimed to be younger than he was.

Re:How can they?

[odourpreventer]

If the card is stolen, I guess it could be blocked, just like every credit card.

Re:How can they?

[kneeslasher]

Would that I had mod points for the parent.

Nobody seems to realise that this entire issue is only an issue because most European-descended industrialised societies have run out of targets to hate. Other nations? No, we pity them, give them aid, and invade them, but we can't hate them: they're too weak to hate. Other religions? No, can't do that either: it causes civil strife within a nation and Crusades and Holy Wars without. Other races? Can't do that either. At least not publicly.

So goshdarnit, whom can we hate, unreservedly, with all our hearts? Gentlemen, the answer is paedophiles. That's right, child molesters. They are the new witches of today and we all enjoy seeing them burn at the stake: they are the one "species" we can all feel superior to and not feel guilty about it.

I remember a case here in England where two men shared a jail cell and one of them castrated the other because he had been convicted of some kind of rape. You wouldn't believe the smug self-satisfaction the public greeted this news with. No one seemed to notice that we shouldn't be resorting to criminals to mete out rough "justice" to other criminals: society itself is responsible for that, but would prefer to be hypocritical.

If the guy didn't actually forcibly rape the girl, the parent is absolutely correct: he should kill himself right now, because even if by some miracle, the courts acquit him, society has already judged him guilty. He will never recover from this debacle, careerwise or in any other sense. He is a marked man.

Surely in societies where girls as young as 9 - 12 boast of sleeping with two different boys in a single night at Catholic camp (yes, it happens, and often), a slight change in perspective is needed. There is a clear difference between such wanton and consensual promiscuity and those who genuinely do not wish to engage in sexual activity, whom the law seeks to protect. Unfortunately, below the current age of consent, it becomes difficult to legally seperate the two, the issue being topical enough as it is. It often becomes a case of "my word against yours", where the female word is often given more weight.

Until we have some progress, the fellow in TFA, if he is innocent of true forced rape, will be screwed by the mob justice the public is dying to mete out to him.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um. Here's a little thought for you...

1) I want to inject you with a large dose of ricin.
2) You don't want to be injected with a large dose of ricin because you'll die.
3) So you ask me not to do it.
4) But I say I want to do it.
5) So you ask me to figure out a way to do it without killing you.
6) But that's impossible.

Do you see where this is going? Sometimes something seems like it might be a good idea, for example setting up a social networking site. And that idea turns out to have some bad effects, such as perverts, rapists, pedophiles, etc. using it to hunt down and rape young kids. And it turns out that it's not possible to inexpensively ameliorate that effect.... well that doesn't make that effect acceptable. What it means is that your business model is broken and we as a society aren't interested in lowering our standard of living in order for you to succeed.

The fundamental problem with 90% of the people who raise the "it's technically difficult" or "it's prohibitively expensive" argument: they assume that whatever is being proposed has an overriding right to be done that trumps all other public concerns.

Which is funny because most of the people who raise these arguments live in a world where the water is generally clean, the rain doesn't eat your skin off, the fish don't have three eyes, children aren't typically born with two heads, and the reason for this is because as a society we frequently tell entrepeneurs that "yes, we know you have a right to make money by starting a business, but:

your coal burning power plant must scrub it's exhaust....
your nuclear reactor must be shielded....
your toxic waste must be properly disposed of....

The reality is, if MySpace is a public nuisance (and I'm not saying if they are or aren't, I don't have much experience or interest in the site) then as both a society and as individuals we have the right to call them on it.

Re:How can they?

[lawpoop]

That sounds nice if all the police are doing if giving you free rides when you are too drunk to get yourself home. However, what if the South Korea were taken over by a dictator like North Korea? the supreme leader has access to everyone's personal information. That kind of information is very handy when you want to crack down on political prisoners, and have political enemies 'disappear'.

Re:How can they?

[ivan256]

There are tons of reasons she has to lose...

If being sexually assaulted results in being very wealthy for the rest of your life, that creates an enormous incentive to "be sexually assaulted". We shouldn't make such an incentive for false accusations. This is especially true since our justice system seems more interested in successfully prosecuting people, than making sure people are actually guilty.

If social gathering places are held responsible for laws broken by their patrons, every publically open business is going to be sued out of existance.

If people get financially compensated every time they do something that causes something bad to happen to them, we'll end up with a higher idiot count than we have even today.

Re:How can they?

[MBGMorden]

Depends on the state. IIRC, in SC the age of consent is 16 if the partner is within 2 years, and 18 otherwise.

Re:How can they?

[autophile]

And if you're too drunk to walk home yourself, which happens a lot in korea, police officers who find you can match your fingerprints up with the police station, according to your finger, and the finger's fingerprint pattern.

This public service announcement brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

--Rob

Re:How can they?

[Danse]

However, what if the South Korea were taken over by a dictator like North Korea? the supreme leader has access to everyone's personal information. That kind of information is very handy when you want to crack down on political prisoners, and have political enemies 'disappear'.

Depends on what the information is. If it's just name, address, DOB kind of stuff, then it's probably not a problem. If they abuse this system (which I feel would inevitably happen here in the US) by tying in all sorts of other info, then you have problems.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

...but I can not find any story saying the boy actually lied about his age.

He said he was a high school senior. Which is not exactly the same thing as saying he is 17 or 18, but certainly provides that impression. Would you consider it a deception if I sold you a mountain dew and instead of a carbonated, caffeinated, piss-colored soft drink I gave you a bottle of dew collected from a mountain?

Re:How can they?

[MoTec]

It's amazing how such research can be so thoroughly misinterpreted. According to that chart 10% of rapes are commited by "other intimates" which includes "parent/step-parent, other relative, other household member, and close friend" - not all of that 10% is even family members. 8% of the rapes are commited by strangers. The other 83% are commited by "current partners, ex-partners, dates, and acquaintances."

So while strangers are one of the least likely groups to commit a rape, the vast majority of rapes are commited by someone the victim knows, who is not a family member (at least 83%).

Goes to show the truth of that old saying: "Lies, damn lies and statistics". People can use statistics to "prove" any point they want to.

Re:How can they?

[Danse]

Bottom line is. Will efficient age verification process protect anyone from being assaulted? Any girl could be raped by a bloke her own age for all I know. Further more it (efficient age verification) would give a false feeling of security and trust. Online Dating? not an easy problem at all.

Right. This girl thought she was going out with a HS senior, so about 18 probably. Turns out he was 19. I don't really see the difference here, or how MySpace is at fault for anything. It was simply bad judgement on her part, and lack of proper supervision from her parents. The guy that assaulted her should be on trial for that. End of story.

Re:How can they?

[elrous0]

It is a little weird living in a country where you can legally buy this at 18, you can legally buy this at 21, and no one can legally buy this.

Personally, I'd rest a lot easier if this list were reversed.

-Eric

Re:How can they?

[Mo Bedda]

Fear of these types of technology is not really based in their lack of openness, but in their applications. If the government wants to implant some RF tracking device in my head, the fact they will let me know how to use the signal to activate my garage door doesn't really remove my fear. Open standards can be used to implement all sorts of things which may or may not be good.

I have two main concerns with advanced authentication systems. First, they create a false sense of certainty, eroding the presumption of innocence. Second, I'm concerned about the amount of data collected and retained, and how the information is used.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

The sad thing is that the majority of sexual harassments are not done by strangers, but by relatives and family.

That's a myth. Most sexual assaults are committed by someone non-related but who is known to the victim, but that covers anything from family friend, to neighbor, to classmate, to someone you talk to on the bus every day. The only group in which a majority of sexual assaults are committed by a family member is 0-5 year old females, and that's understandable considering how rarely a child of that age is out of the direct supervision of a family memeber. Yet even in that age range "majority" is just 51.8% (0-5 males are only 42.4%). See this US Dept of Justice report for nearly all the sexual assault data you could possibly want, the numbers I've quoted come from page 13.

Re:How can they?

[lawpoop]

"Depends on what the information is. If it's just name, address, DOB kind of stuff, then it's probably not a problem. "

What other information do you need? If you have the name and address, that's all you need to come in the middle of the night and arrest them. Are you talking about whatever additional information that the authorities might need to decide that you are an enemy of the state? Well, once you have a giant database of names and addresses, a fascist government simply needs regular police monitoring to discover political dissidents in order to start disappearing people.

People living in fear of the authorities will call in and report a controversial editorial writer or talking head. People have reputations as to who they are, what they do, and what they believe, so all you need to do is start asking questions as to who has said what. There you get a name, and that is all you need.

Re:How can they?

[Denny]

I assumed they meant to say 'friends and family'.

Date rape isn't a stranger (unless it's a blind date).

Re:How can they?

[klang]

.. with the twist:

Los menores de 15 años no podrán practicar el sexo con los mayores de 18

Hence; for all intent and purpose, the Spanish age of consent is .. 15.

Re:How can they?

[dmatos]

I was 19 for a short time while I was a high school senior. There's no reason to think that he was lying. High school seniors are not 14 years old.

Re:How can they?

[klang]

The addition to the rule in the case of Spain is:

Los menores de 15 años no podrán practicar el sexo con los mayores de 18

Which means that kids can fool around with eachother, but grownups have to stick to grownups.

Maybe there are similar rules for the countries with very low (compared to the 'norm') ages of consent?

Re:How can they?

[Hatta]

As well he should. The 19-year old invited a 14-year old back to his place with the intent of having sex with her. Is there something else I'm missing in this picture?

Oh no! Teenagers having sex! Won't somebody please think of the children!

Re:How can they?

[houghi]

Sorry. I ment to say people "acquaintances" instead of "relatives". i.e. "non-strangers".

Re:How can they?

[ZeroExistenZ]

Do you really use it though
I use it to do my taxes and use government services online.

I've played around with the digital signing, but not many people are very familiour with signed emails and rather pass it then clicking through the prompts in their mailreader.

It should also be very easy to download your information in public systems as in hospitals (to get your adress and name, without having the secretary manually entering that) as well but I haven't seen that implemented as of yet. (haven't used public services in quite a while either, so I wouldn't know to be honest)

There is an API available, which I've played around with and is very easy to use but I lack time atm to look it up, but Linux is def. supported. (not sure about the API, but very sure about implementation)

Re:How can they?

[Sj0]

That would be fine, if young female culture didn't often take statutory rape -- that is, having sex with some 20 year old when you're 14 -- as some sort of bizzare badge of honour and something to be actively sought.

As long as we have mini-humans with mini-humanity, all such laws are unjust, as far as I'm concerned.

Re:How can they?

[V_Pundit]

Of course, the 19-year-old can just offer $10 to a passing 13-year-old in the mall in exchange for the 13-year-old registering at that kiosk and then giving the new account information to the 19-year-old. That sounds no more reliable thanwhat they have now.

Re:How can they?

[bogado]

If there is one key that bind's all the information you had on many, many sites they will have enougth information to know who is for and who is against the new order. Even if 50% or 60% of korean sites are hosted offshore, the remaining 40% of the sites will be enouth for a data mining operation by the opressor govern.

The problem here is the single key, not the information on the central database.

Re:How can they?

[smoor]

Sucks to be him? Oh yeah, booh frikkin hooh... A 14 year old is a kid, and any 19 year old that doesn't know that is nothing better than a pedophile.

This is not an 18 year old and a 17 year old. She was stupid, but stupid is not an excuse for rape. If she had met him at the library he'd still be an a-hole with a nice "sexual predator" tag coming at him for the rest of his life.

It's not myspaces fault, it's not the schools fault. Its her fault she put herself in that situation, but its NOT her fault she got raped. ITS HIS FAULT.

Re:How can they?

[tinkerghost]

Ohh, CC verification....
OK now we have just raised the minimum age for being on any social networking site to 18.
Next, we are now charging $45-$100 per year (or more saw a CC for $75 anual fee + $12/mth usage fee the other day).
Finally, a quick google on 'credit card number generator' came back with 4 million hits, including an online one.

So, can anyone tell me how exactly this is going to work? If any moron can hit a website & generate a valid card # (not nescesarily a valid account) what have we just gained? Oh, yeah, we locked out thousands of honest people & did nothing about the scum ... yeah that's another great leap forward brought to you by people with no clue.
Sorry, she's 14. She should know by now not to talk to strangers, let alone go home with them.
Now Question 1: is the 'sexual assault' charge based on statutory rape? IE. did she have consensual sex with him or did she say no? - sorry don't give me bull about she's 14 she can't consent, 14 year olds are consenting all the time, and at least 3 states put the age of consent at 14.
Question 2: Did he or she misrepresent themselves on MySpace? TFA indicates he said he was 19 & a senior at a local HS. Was he 19? Did her profile correctly indicate she was 14?
Question 3: When going out on this date, did her parents know about it? Did she lie to them? Did they approve of the guy?
If question 1 is 'yes it's a statutory rape charge', then to hell with it, you can't protect people from themselves. If it was in fact rape, I'm sorry for her, but I still fail to see how it's MySpace's fault. She met him, had dinner with him, and went back to his place. 3 acts of consent outside of MySpace's control. Do we get to sue BigYellow.com next because some stalker found an address there?
If the 2 accounts both correctly state the ages of their owners, how is age verification going to help? If he lied - which seems unlikely since the artical said he identified himself as a 19 year old senior and he was stated as being 19 when he was arrested - there might be some small issue. If she lied and marked herself as older, I got not sympathy. There were rules in place to protect her, she broke them & got hurt - action -> consequence see how nicely they go together? Learn from it.
Question 3 is just about parental responsibility. Let's face it, as her parents, they have a huge legal 'duty' to be aware of what she is doing, when, & with whom. They failed. That doesn't make them 'bad' parents per say, I did a crapload of stuff that my parents probably still don't know about 20 years later, but it also doesn't absolve them of the 'duty' to protect her.
Being present at MySpace does not remove a kid from their parents custody, there is no transfer of guardianship (guardian pro tem or guardian pro se, not sure which ) such as you have with a school. IANAL but if anyone is going to be charged with negligence, it should be the parents.
This should be thrown out of court as groundless, but because it's 'for the children' in an election year, you can bet it's going to be trumpeted throughout congress and it's going to end with new laws that only restrict the honest people, and do nothing about the scum.

Re:How can they?

[ZeroExistenZ]

And presumably you have to show up in person to get one, right? Prove your identity, show a passport, etc? That's not really verifying age online

Well it replaces the regular "identity card", which every Belgian is required by law to carry and is issues to you by the state. You have to be citizen to get one, you can't just "pick one up".

I believe the concept is not known in the US, but we are required by law to be able to identify at any moment after the age of 12. To be able to do so, we carry a "identity card", of which the eID is just the digital version.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Short of requiring everyone to scan some sort of documentation of their age and ...

You just hit that nail through the wood! I doubt that a random 14-year old girl just decided to file a suit. <tinfoilhat>This is one small step in clamping down on free internet discourse, and if she wins, a giant leap for the "Would you think of the children!(TM)" crowd. Just another step to remove anonymity from the internet</tinfoilhat>.
As another poster in your thread said, she must lose for the principle of freedom of speach and peaceful assembly without government intrusion.

Re:How can they?

[NamShubCMX]

What has always seem weird to me is that the age of VOTE is lower than the age of drinking. Which means (theoretically, of course) that you could vote a law that would allow yourself to drink at 18.

How weird is that?

Re:How can they?

[Curien]

Everyone in DoD already has one, so the idea of its use in the US isn't terribly far-fetched. We call it the CAC (common access card), and it's basically just a photo ID/smart card combo. I'd happily use it to verify my identity on third-party web sites, but hardly anyone supports client certificates.

Re:How can they?

[spun]

Where's the "+1, Dirty" mod when you need it?

Re:How can they?

[tehcyder]

Many minors have credit cards

Really? They don't in the UK, you have to be over 18.

Re:How can they?

[calzones]

I seem to recall hearing that Mary was 13 or 14, the standard child-bearing age (and hence marriage) of the times, when she gave birth to Jesus.

People were old at 35

When I turned 12, I was called an adult and expected to be responsible for my own actions. Maturity doesn't begin to set in until life demands it of you, no matter how old you are.

Re:How can they?

[tinkerghost]

Unless you're birthday is late in the year, in which case it's not unusual to graduate at 19 - have to be 6 by Nov 1st to get into kindergarden or some such. Get born on Nov 2 & be a year behind.

Re:How can they?

[nate nice]

Yeah, you can put an allowance on to them and now you can see exactly what your child is spending their money on. (Similar to the reason I use a credit card for everything possible, so I can track my spending habits more easily)

I give my kid a $50.00 credit for a week and I can see he is spending his money on lunch, comic books and stupid things. I give him $50.00 in cash and now I have no idea where it is going. If he *needs* cash for something, I can see what it is for.

I'm sure in the UK there has to be something similar. Here it is just an extension of my credit account with a hard cap on it for the kids.

For the record I don't have kids but I can see why having them use credit is better than giving them cash. It makes one a more effective parent.

Re:How can they?

[calzones]

I forwent using my mod points on this article so as to post earlier. Otherwise, I would have modded you up.

Wow. +5 Brilliant! Finally someone with the balls to speak some sense.

Re:How can they?

[calzones]

^^^ post above was directed at kneeslasher (878676) on Tuesday June 20, @06:23AM (#15568459)

Re:How can they?

[Sloppy]

A possible, but expensive, way MySpace could reliably verify age of new users is to open staffed registration centers (could be small staffed kiosks in malls, superstores, etc) throughout the U.S. and other various countries, in which new users would appear in person with a government photo ID / birth certificate, etc

Aha! MySpace is getting into the CA business!

Seriously, if you're going to verify people's age, you might as well sign their keys too. :-)

Re:How can they?

[Borland]

I graduated at 17, so I suppose this perv can be a whole two years greater than he claimed to be on MySpace. Of course, like everyone else I didn't RTFA so I'm not sure how serious the charge is.

But I've seen sites that require age verification. It's three picklists and relies on integrity to function. A rock solid implementation if every there was one.

Re:How can they?

[Eskarel]

Might I point out that the only thing we know about what he did was that they didn't have sex, and we only know this because in the US if he had sex with her he'd be charged with rape and not sexual assault.

In the US sex with a minor is a statutory crime(hence statutory rape). This means that you are guilty of it merely by having been proven to have commited the act, there are no extenuating circumstances.

Therefor we know that he didn't have sex with her(or that she was consenting, is still consenting and won't testify against him). As he's not being charged with attempted rape we can probably even presume he didn't come very close to commiting said act.

Now we've got down to sexual assault, which can be pretty much anything from innapropriate touching, upward. That's probably very questionable behaviour, but not really all that unexpected on a date, particularly if they knew each other for a while.

All we really know in this case is that a 19 year old tried to date a 14 year old. While I personally think this is probably wrong, I also know that if he'd been 17 it would have been perfectly legal, even though she'd still be 14. She knew he was a high school senior on the football team(and it's not totally unheard of for guys on the football team to have been held back either for educational reasons or by parents who want them to have a size advantage), doesn't sound like too much of a lie to me. He didn't just abduct her off the street, and he seems(based on the levels of crime involved) to have let her go without too much of a fuss. So while he's probably a bit of an idiot, he's not exactly scum of the earth material.

Re:How can they?

[edunbar93]

Where was Mom and Dad when the minor went on a date with a 19 year old?

14 year old girls date 19 year olds all the time. It's because the 14 year old girls *like* it that way. And moreover, sexual assaults usually don't result, except in the context of statutory rape.

This issue really rubs a sore spot on me. It's right up there along with that stupid "no means no" campaign, and that stupid "just don't rape" meme I've seen on LiveJournal. The fundamental issue here is that some people get off on hurting other people. For the purpose of brevity, let's call these people... oh, I don't know... maybe "evil".

The difference between the actions of a good person and an evil person under any circumstances in which rape occurs have little to nothing to do with the actions of the victim. A girl could show up on a guy's doorstep 15 minutes after meeting him online, get naked, and if he's a decent guy, she'd have a really good time. If he's a psychopath instead, he'd beat and rape her for six hours before dumping her in an alley. Sure, her behaviour is risky, but she didn't *cause* the rape to happen.

No amount of propaganda to clear up any confusion about when a girl means no, laws to ensure age verification of myspace users, or efforts to make little girls sweet as pie so they don't offend anyone, will fix the problem. What *will* fix the problem is if victims of rape actually press charges and the courts actually convict rapists. Society will be safe from that man for the duration of his sentence, if nothing else.

Re:How can they?

[drsquare]

As well he should. The 19-year old invited a 14-year old back to his place with the intent of having sex with her. Is there something else I'm missing in this picture?

What's wrong with that? Only in your Christian fundamentalist world is sex between two sexually-mature individuals somehow wrong.

A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable.

Let me guess, when you were 14 you were too fat/spotty to get any?

Re:How can they?

[RESPAWN]

Actually, I believe that most countries disallow the transporting of minors into their country with the sole intention of having sexual relations with them. Go to www.ageofconsent.com for more information and clarification on these laws.

(I would have looked up the info on Spain, but seeing as I'm at work, that would probably be a bad idea.)

Re:How can they?

[zariok]

Before you start throwing out "pedophile" as an excuse, perhaps you should know the defination. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

# Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger). # The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty. # The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A."

Per another poster, there are TONS of Seniors in HS that date Freshmen... the age could easily be 19 to 14/15. With schools teaching sexual education in 7th grade now, the girl is quite aware of intentions. Don't get me wrong, this does not excuse the boy if he actually forced himself on her.

Re:How can they?

[An Onerous Coward]

Okay, now that's funny.

Though, actually, a MySpace account would be a very different thing from alcohol, because alcohol doesn't care whose system it goes into. But the account is supposed to be linked to a single individual.

So theoretically, if person A goes into these kiosks, they might have their picture taken and posted as information linked to the account. If all the other pictures associated with an account are of an obviously different person, then the account could easily be reported.

Problem is, nobody wants people to see their drivers' license photos. Also, it's possible to find people who look a lot like you.

I think we really need a fundamentally secure, cryptographic online reputation system. You could theoretically use different keys and different authorities to verify anything about a person, from "this person is Person X" to "this person is over eighteen and that's all you need to know" to "IAAL". Going to a kiosk for a MySpace account seems like a lot of work. Going to the same kiosk to have all manner of things verified about your life, and receiving credentials that allow you to demonstrate them all in an online forum... that would be pretty cool.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, if I run out onto the expressway and get hit by a truck, it's my fault I'm there, but not my fault I got hit?

Re:How can they?

[An Onerous Coward]

I agree that people shouldn't be having or asking for sex from people who are significantly less emotionally mature than them. I also realize that, when the penis is doing the thinking, it has no trouble rationalizing that the object of its desire is "mature enough". Sex should never happen between people when there is a big power differential between them, whether that means rape, coercion, or the sorts of manipulations that a clever nineteen year old could use on a significantly younger person.

So yes, he should have known better.

I also think it's very unlikely for two fourteen year olds to both have the emotional maturity and judgment necessary for a safe and fulfilling sexual relationship. But I don't see why "A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable." Not without at least throwing in a few (admittedly very likely) caveats.

Care to share your thoughts?

Re:How can they?

[mblase]

A 19-year old should have known better.

You haven't known many 19-year-olds, have you?

Re:How can they?

[cyberwench]

Call me crazy, but I'm reasonably certain that many governments already have their citizens' name and address. In order for them not to have this, you would have to not pay taxes, not have a bank account, a job, a residence, any loans, any debt, a library card... it could be done, but you'd really have to be trying.

If they want to come arrest someone in the middle of the night, odds are that they would know who the person was already and where they were at. Being able to ID them by fingerprint after nabbing them is really just a formality.

Re:How can they?

[Myen]

You vote for a few years, realize that whatever you do you really can't make a difference, and resort to drinking. Sounds like it's working just fine...

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

She probably said she was 18 also.

Re:How can they?

[Atzanteol]

It certainly is when your policy is to not even try to verify.

And how *could* they verify the age of a 12 year old in China, a 41 year old in India, a 16 year old in Texas, and a 53 year old in Australia? How could they even *try*?

Re:How can they?

[ThinkingInBinary]

...hardly anyone supports client certificates.

This is sorta off-topic, but MIT actually uses client certificates for authentication to some internal web sites. It's cool to see the stuff they can implement when most of their user base is technically competent.

Re:How can they?

[skiman1979]

That is a good point. There are a lot of possibilities here. If we don't have all the facts, we shouldn't be so quick to judge. The fact of the matter is, Myspace should not be sued because it is not their responsibility to verify users' ages before those users meet offline. This case is all about the money. Next thing we'll see is teenage girls (or guys) suing malls because they met their attacker there.

Re:How can they?

[Vinnie_333]

Also, the article doesn't say "rape". It says "sexual assault", which could be many things both heinous and relatively benign. In fact, use of the term sexual assault implies it was much less than rape. If they could have said rape, they probably would have since it makes a much stronger case. The behavior that got him in trouble could have been quite innocent in other cirmumstances or with another person.

Re:How can they?

[Stone Pony]

I suppose that the GP's reference to incest could be taken to imply "blood relatives only", but I took "family" to include the current partners and at least some of the "other intimates". The broader point which I was trying to convey was that the principal danger is "people who are probably already known to the victim" rather than strangers. The "dates" group could, of course, fall into either category.

Re:How can they?

[Hatta]

I agree that people shouldn't be having or asking for sex from people who are significantly less emotionally mature than them.

So if I'm an emotionally immature 30 year old it's ok for me to hit on 15 year olds? Awesome.

Re:How can they?

[foamrotreturns]

I was 19 when I graduated. It's not uncommon. Dumb lawsuit - hope it gets laughed out of court.

Re:How can they?

[smoor]

Nice... What is this, 1945? Sex with a 14 year old is a crime for a lot of good reasons. Pathetic.

Re:How can they?

[esper]

There is one little detail you omitted: Even if the 19-year-old was a decent guy and she had a really good time, it would still be classified as "(statutory) rape" in most states. In such a state, I think it would be fair to say that, by consenting to an illegal act, she would have "cause[d] the rape to happen". (Before anyone jumps on me for "blaming the victim", this is the only situation in which I would consider the notional "victim" of a rape to be at all responsible for it - and if she was willing, had a really good time, and suffered no ill effects, I have a hard time with the idea that the term "victim" is really appropriate in the first place.)

Anyhow, I agree that pressing charges and convicting (real, as opposed to "my girlfriend has the wrong birthday") rapists is a must. I also agree with the GP that, for the good of humanity, this lawsuit must fail. The girl and her mother should be going after the rapist, not MySpace. MySpace is not, in any real or meaningful way, responsible for what happened.

Re:How can they?

[rjstegbauer]

LOL

Please MOD parent up FUNNY.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Was he a pedo? He is now.

Re:How can they?

[tacarat]

People like to dream about simple solutions to online identity issues.

I wonder what Aubry does to confirm Nerdrotica's clientel? Heh, not that she'd care.

Re:How can they?

[esper]

Depends on where you are. As I recall Minnesota law, sex with a 14 year old is perfectly legal, as long as you're no more than 48 months older. But, if you're 48 months + 1 day older, it suddenly, magically becomes a major criminal offense. Why do your "lot of good reasons" only apply to some freshman/senior couples but not to others?

Re:How can they?

[Yardboy]

No it's only allowing #1 if your government forces you to use it everywhere you go. That doesn't appear to be the case. You can use it to conveniently verify your identity and age to some entity with which you want to do business, using the provider as an agent third-party. No one says you have to use it.

Re:How can they?

[esper]

We don't actually even know that much... If they had made the beast with two backs, Minnesota would classify it as "first-degree sexual assault". I'm sure there are also other states where similar terminology would be used rather than introducing the actual word "rape".

I suspect you're right that whatever happened didn't go that far, as the article would have been more sensational if it included the word "rape", but we don't know that it didn't.

Re:How can they?

[Yardboy]

Not only that, but for the sake of humanity, MySpace needs to stand up and fight this lawsuit. It would be a real tragedy if they bowed and settled just to avoid the cost of a lengthy court process.

Re:How can they?

[crossmr]

She lied about her age? Tough. He should have checked her ID.
Why did she check his? or better yet, I'm pretty sure he's not required to check her ID, get a DNA swab and some dental work for comparison to verify she is who she says she is.

Not every 16 year old has their drivers license, learner's/etc. She tells him she's 16, she maybe looks 16, maybe he does ask for her school ID, oh I left it at home today.

Lots of possibilities here besides the simple he guy is a sick pedo
There are a multitude of possibilities, because pedophilia requires interest in pre-pubescent children. American morons.Another example of them hijacking a buzz word to try and paint someone in a poor light.

Re:How can they?

[ultranova]

A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable.

Why ?

Re:How can they?

[lawpoop]

"Call me crazy, but I'm reasonably certain that many governments already have their citizens' name and address."

I won't call you crazy, but I'd say you are using too broad a brush ;)

Here in the US, we have seperation of powers. That means that the police aren't allowed to call up the IRS and demand someone's address. They could do so if they get a warrant, but they have to get a judge to sign off on it, which means that there is some judicial oversight of executive power. So yes, many different parts of the US government has names and addresses, but the executive doesn't, and there are checks and balances and separations of power that prevent the executive from getting information too easily. I can't say I'm too knowledgeable about other governments, but I would bet other western countries have similar protections.

You are correct in a respect. In a dictatorship, the executive isn't really going to worry about warrants -- they will get thier information from wherever, without regard to seperation of powers.

Re:How can they?

[LordNightwalker]

True, but... As a Spanish resident of Belgium since my birth, I don't have an eID. I'm a foreigner, I don't have a belgian ID; you guys got the plastic credit-card like IDs, we get the big ugly paper ones.

Also, your solution works for Belgium, and Belgium only. Websites often operate worldwide. What we need is a global solution, not a solution that only works in a negligible part of the world.

I'm currently part of a project that will use eID as well. It's not fully implemented yet, the part that uses eID is still in the planning phase, but already we have come up with fallback solutions in case eID is not available, 'coz even here in Belgium we can NOT expect every customer we get to have an eID card.

Re:How can they?

[LouisZepher]

Define "sexual maturity". If you're using the "old enough to bleed" line, then explain how sex between a ten-year-old girl and a seventeen-year-old guy isn't wrong.

Re:How can they?

[smoor]

I'm sure NAMBLA would agree. I guess I'm just a prude to think that an 8th grader shouldn't be having sex. 4 years is a hell of a big difference when you're a teenager.

Any parent who lets their child date someone four years older is an idiot. You see, 14 year olds are allowed to be idiots - its part of growing up. Their parents aren't. Besides, can't the 19 year old get someone his own age to rape?

Re:How can they?

[DavidTC]

And how many kids are going to shoulder surf to find their parents PIN? And how many parents are going to leave it in their wallet where a kid can pull it out to use at any time?

This whole thing is getting absurd.

Re:How can they?

[DavidTC]

19-year olds can be high-school seniors. You can be in high school until 21. (Actually, I think, you can enter until you'd be 21 during that semester, but I suspect different states do it differently.)

They're going to have fun asserting that a lie that he hadn't graduated high-school is somehow relevant to all this.

Re:How can they?

[Belgand]

The opposite is also true. When I graduated from high school I was 17. I turned 18 on my first day moving into the dorms for college. My birthday is in late August and thus I was close to the cut-off to begin with (in our area it's based on the age you are when you start, not in November) and started school a year early on top of that.

Re:How can they?

[DavidTC]

It depends. Is the side with the alcohol and sex allowed to invite the people with guns and violence over for a party, and then roll them of their weapons when they get drunk or fall asleep after sex? ;)

Re:How can they?

[LordNightwalker]

Man, you people are paranoid. WTH is wrong with a country requiring their citizens to carry an ID with them all the time? I've had mine since I was 12, and only *one* time did somebody require me to show it to them. That person was a cop, giving me a ticket for a traffic violation. It serves the same purpose as a drivers license: to allow the police to identify you when you commit a violation or a crime. The only reason he asked for my ID and not my drivers license was because I comitted the traffic violation by bike. If I were driving a car, he would have just asked for my drivers licence.

Other than that, the ID only leaves my wallet to show my dorky picture to friends. Now, what does it matter if the information is written on the thing, embedded in a chip, or both? None whatsoever. But hey, as soon as identities and electronics meet, armageddon must be near, right?

The positive benefits of an ID are stuff like ease of identification when I'm found dead, or badly hurt somewhere, so they can contact my immediate family; police knowing who I am when they arrest me for comitting a crime; age verification towards merchants who may not sell certain products to minors etc...

The downsides? I can only think of one: when the thing gets stolen, I'm required to report it and get a new one. That means paperwork and a couple of trips to city hall. Big fucking deal.

If you people actually took the time to educate yourselves about stuff you so religiously oppose, instead of following the herd and repeating the voice of the dumb masses, you might have noticed that the API is freely available, opensource implementations are already there, hence there is no bloody way the government can track you through it because nothing gets communicated to a central government server during any of your transactions. Otherwise it would bloody well show up in the API and opensource implementations and you can bet your ass it would be a huge scandal, and the whole eID deal would be dismissed faster than you can say "dog". The worst they could do is have the chip secretly log all transactions behind our backs, then datamine our returned IDs when they expire and we're supposed to exchange them for new ones. Yeah, 5 friggin' years later, they can finally get to my transaction logs. Whoopty-fucking-doo!

Maybe it's just 'coz most of you people live in the US... Living under a government that tested illicit drugs on their own troops to verify their validity as a weapon during the Vietnam era, that tested chemical warfare shit on their own soldiers during the gulf war, that constantly lies to their people to justify going to war (WMDs in Iraq anyone?) killing thousands of their citizens... Maybe all of that made you people a little paranoid and crazy in the head when it comes to trusting any government. But trust me; the worst shit that happens around here is some helicopter manufacturer paying some politicians to give them a positive evaluation when they're competing with another manufacturer to get this large government contract in, or politicians comitting fraud to line their own pockets and build luxury villas in a nice and quiet neighbourhood.

We Europeans value our privacy just as much as you yanks, the difference is we approach the privacy issue on a "think first, analyze the situation, then speak" basis, whereas you guys have more of a "shout fanatically as soon as anything even remotely applicable to our privacy gets mentioned" mentality. Fanatical shouting about stuff you don't understand doesn't make you seem more knowledgeable to anyone except your equally dumb peers who don't understand the stuff themselves, but have the same desire as you to belong to some "elite group of critical thinkers", although their thoughtprocesses could probably be surpassed by Lassie on a bad day.

Re:How can they?

[DavidTC]

No. That would actually require 18, 19, and 20 year olds to vote.

Fucking morons.

OTOH, Michael Moore (Yes, that Michael Moore.) has a fairly funny story where he ran for school board, his senior year in high school, and was elected, and was thus the boss of his principal. (He somewhat regrets how he acted, because, looking back, they both were somewhat okay guys, and he managed to make them both quit by the end of the year.)

Re:How can they?

[freedom_india]

I guess you would be happy to live with your GF in a glass house where the world would be happy to see you both having a good time, just because you think since they do not assault you physically, they can watch all they want,.

A bird in a Golden Cage is still in Jail.

NH Motto: Live Free or Die.

Re:How can they?

[Belgand]

Dear $DIETY! We need to make certain that high schools are aware that they might be allowing 19 year-olds and 14 year-olds to interact! There must be some sort of way to prevent them from talking to each other every single day and perhaps, eventually, having sex.

Seriously, if he was 18 would that really have made any difference at all? Wouldn't he still be a bit sleazy (even if they had a real, loving relationship at that age 4 years makes a big difference) even if he hadn't sexually assaulted her. Knowing that she was 14 that would typically make her a freshman and a freshman dating a senior would be more or less accurate to the age range here.

Myspace is no more to blame than if she was sexually assaulted by an actual 19 year-old she met at school or any other public place if she met a guy there who claimed to be a senior.

Most tellingly though is that she went out with him and then he date-raped her. She apparently had no problem dating the guy or at least it was never mentioned that she did or that upon meeting him she realized that he was apparently older than someone she'd want to date (and hence, the issue in question since MySpace isn't an age-verification service). She should simply press charges for sexual assualt and be done with it.

Re:How can they?

[DavidTC]

In Georgia, the state that is, the law is that anyone can have sex with 16 and older, and going down to 14 as long there's less than a three year difference. By less than, I mean '2 years and 355 days is okay'. (A lot of people think it's 'two years', but the law says 'less than three years difference'.)(1)

This means that a seventeen year old, in general, can have sex all the way down to a fourteen year old, assuming the younger will be fifteen before the older is eighteen.

And, of course, married people can always have sex, no matter what the age, but you both have to be 16 (Or is it 17?) to marry without parental consent. People can get married down to 14 with parental consent, though, so there is a slight objection that, in theory, 14-year olds can marry 50-year olds, but so far that does not actually happen.

1) And now I'm wondering about leap years. What if one was born on, say, Feb 29, 1992, and one was born Feb 28, 1989? Or Feb 29, 1995? This isn't a 'one only' day issue, because the somewhat nice thing about the law is that it's relational to ages. I.e, if two people can have sex at any point, they can always have sex, as opposed to some poorly written laws where a 16 and 17 year old can have sex, then the 17 turns 18 and they can't have sex anymore. Below 14 noone can have sex with, over 14 anyone within three years, over 16, anyone except people in positions of authority over you. (Which technically never goes away.) So, couples can be barred, from 14 to 16, from having sex because of one day extra difference in their age, which must seem really unfair to them. (Although it's a good deal more fair then saying 'As of midnight, it is now illegal for you two to have sex anymore.'.)

Re:How can they?

[British English Suck]

realise

You misspelled realize.

Re:How can they?

[British English Rule]

realize

You misspelled realise.

Re:How can they?

[DavidTC]

What the hell is a 'verified' email account, anyway?

Or do they mean that myspace signs people up without any email account?

Re:How can they?

[MaverickUW]

Save for the fact that there's a much bigger reason that states limit drinking until 21. Several years ago, states such as Idaho still used to be only 18 for drinking age. Federal Government (under Clinton) said that if states don't make their drinking age 21, then they'd take away highway and other funding. A few million more in alcohol taxes doesn't make up for a few billion in Federal funds.

Though we should follow England example. Drink at 16, don't get your drivers license till 18. By 18, most people get the hint that drinking just isn't as awesome as it used to be.

Re:How can they?

[crabpeople]

"A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable."

What kind of morality is that? My first time was at 14 and i dont regret it one bit. We ended up going out for years before we broke up. Just because you didnt get any when you were 14, doesnt make it wrong that 14 year olds have sex with other 14 year olds. It isnt even against the law where im from. Thats just your specific morality and is not even minorly regretable to others.

Re:How can they?

[dvNull]

True, I graduated from high school 2 months before my 17th birthday.

Re:How can they?

[TheUser0x58]

That kind of verification is good enough for bank ATMs.

Re:How can they?

[rg3]

Yes, he did something which was wrong by US law. This would've been legal in other countries, like Spain for example.

Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sure. I'm Spanish and, if I recall correctly, having sex with a minor, you being an adult, is simply illegal. It doesn't really matter if both of you agree to have sex. If she later says "I had sex with this man when I was 17 and he was 19", you can be arrested. I could be wrong, though. Please post a link and/or quote if you find out anything about this.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing as you make it plainly obvious that you know nothing about the North Korea situation, why don't you start here?

Re:How can they?

[YrWrstNtmr]

The bank doesn't care who it is, only that the PIN matches the card. Your son or daughter could be authorized, by you, to go retrieve money out of the ATM.
And if there was an unauthorized use, the bank will (probably) give you your money back.

An online system to verify who it is would be much harder, and far more intrusive. If a kid borrows mom's iNetID card for a few minutes, creates a MySpace account...mom would never know about it.

How do you verify that the person behind the keyboard is really the person on the card? You can't.
This is specifically why the Communications Decency Act was shot down in 1997. Trying to prove, online, that you were over 18 would be far too intrusive, and still not 100% sure. It is completely unenforceable.

Re:How can they?

[Kattana]

I think someone already has, its called "Methods for embeding business ideas in digital discussions".

Re:How can they?

[YrWrstNtmr]

I'd happily use it to verify my identity on third-party web sites, but hardly anyone supports client certificates.

Would you want to be positively (sort of) identified at every website you use? Every email you send?

I wouldn't.

And even then...all it may mean is the kid has shouldersurfed for the PIN, and borrowed your CAC out of your wallet for a few minutes.
Not a positive ID verification.

Re:How can they?

[Kattana]

http://www.thecanadiangeek.ca/archives/in-defense- of-the-pedophile/
Relevant to this thread in particular and a very interesting read for anyone.
There is a real problem lately with everyone seeing everything in black and white, victims and pedophiles, terrorists and patriots, Us VS Them.

Re:How can they?

[camryl]

The difference between a driver hitting a reckless pedestrian and a man raping a reckless girl is an act of will.

It's really sad that that even needs to be said.

"I plead not guilty, Your Honor, on account of my penis was moving so quickly that I just couldn't turn aside when she got in the way. Oh, and also I couldn't turn aside when my penis moved out and then in fifty more times before I ejaculated, because... um. Look, you know she was asking for it."

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nowhere in TFA does it mention which side gave the bogus info

It's right there in the second paragraph!

The lawsuit claims that the Web site does not require users to verify their ageand calls the security measures aimed at preventing strangers from contacting users younger than 16 "utterly ineffective."

You just have to realize that checking his age wouldn't be part of these "security measures".

Re:How can they?

[NeutronCowboy]

Do a little bit of googling about sexual abuse of minors. There's all kinds of places that have these statistics (I believe 70% or so of minors that were abused were abused either by immediate relatives or very close friends of the family). Note that this statistics applies to minors, especially pre-teens, not adults.

Re:How can they?

[man_ls]

A better idea would be to make the State driver's license databases accessible over XMLRPC or something.

Myspace sends an XMLRPC verify() request to the state's verification server, with an identification number. I had a state-issued ID number when I was 14 years old; anyone 15+ is very likely to have one via the Learner Driver's License. Anyone who doesn't...well, it's an incentive to go out and get one then, isn't it. Or the school district could verify ages the same way with a student ID (not an SSN).

Some type of system that works ilke Scan DL > Send DL to mainframe > DL returns information on the person.

In order to proffer a DL# to an electronic system, you have to have the physical card in front of you. Nobody in their right mind is going to remember a number that in FL is in the form of $-xxx-yyy-YY-zzz-n after all. The site compares the responses of the xmlrpc query to the provided information, and approves or denies the registration.

Or, to make it even more secure, why not directly send verify(DL#,criteria) and have the function return OK or GO AWAY depending on whether it matches. Do the comparison server-side, so the information stays in the relative security of the Government's systems.

I'm not opposed to positive ID verification...but if they do positively verify IDs, they need to remove the restrictions on who can view who's information. If everyone is legitimate, they have no business hiding the younger people from the general network.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

Might I point out that the only thing we know about what he did was that they didn't have sex, and we only know this because in the US if he had sex with her he'd be charged with rape and not sexual assault.

This is not true. Sexual assault may include rape. It depends on the state what it's called. Just look at the Kobe Bryant case. I can't believe you got modded "Insightful."

Re:How can they?

[Loonacy]

What if your kid takes it out of your purse to verify online, then puts it back?
And what the hell are you doing with a purse anyway? Be a man!

Re:How can they?

[stanmann]

I'm not suggesting he did nothing wrong, I'm merely pointing out that 19 year old seniors on the football team, and 14 year old freshmen have sex all the time. Right or wrong doesn't come into it.

If her mother didn't warn her about what 19 year old seniors on the football team want from freshman girls, thats her mothers fault, not myspace's.

Re:How can they?

[dcam]

That would be fine, if young female culture didn't often take statutory rape -- that is, having sex with some 20 year old when you're 14 -- as some sort of bizzare badge of honour and something to be actively sought.

Ok I think that is quite enough.

Does that change the fact that the 20 year old has a resposiblity in this situation? Not to have sex with a 14 year old? Is is somehow really hard to identify someone who is only a few years into high school?

This is just as bad as the girl and her mother suing MySpace. Wahh, waah it isn't my responsibility. It is someone else's responsibility.

Re:How can they?

[rtechie]

Man, you people are paranoid. WTH is wrong with a country requiring their citizens to carry an ID with them all the time? I've had mine since I was 12, and only *one* time did somebody require me to show it to them.

You're a European. In general, Europeans treat police as a bad joke. They're the "idiots who couldn't get better jobs". The "average" European thinks that police are somehow "beneath" them, that police are basically servants. You can deny this if you want, but I saw it all over Northern Europe. This is despite the fact that European police are easily the least corrupt that I've seen. I've found that the European public is generally hostile to the idea that they should defer to police, that police should be "in charge" and that if an officer tells you to do something you MUST do it. And the police just can't shoot you if you don't do what they say.

This is not the case in the United States. Here, the police are much more corrupt, are much more prone to abuse their authority (authority that European police really don't have) and most important, they see abusing people AS their job. Due to the unions and other factors, police are insulated from accountablity to the public. Example: Imagine if you will a police officer in your town got scared during a traffic stop and decided to shoot an entire family of four in their car (husband, wife, 2 kids), all completely unarmed and innocent. What would happen to him? He would almost certainly be fired and he would probably face serious criminal charges and jail time. In the United States? Absolutely nothing, MAYBE a small reprimand. And such incidents happen almost every day in the US. Consequently, Americans are justifiably wary of giving these people any MORE authority over their lives.

I haven't brought up race yet, but I'd bet money you're white. I seriously doubt the many Muslim immigrants (for example) in Europe share the same rosy view you do of the police.

Frankly, you've gotten soft and trusting. During the run up to WWII one of the great evils of the Nazis was that they required everyone to have identity papers, police could check them at any time, and if you didn't have them "in order" you could be arrested. Why was this evil in 1940 but not evil now?

Re:How can they?

[maxpublic]

Not only that, but labeling him a "pedo" just goes to show how fanatical the crowd on that side of the fence is. In my world (and in the world of most reasonable folks) a pedophile is someone who attempts to have sex with a PRE-pubescent - a child. Now, unless this girl is genetically defective in some fashion there's no way in hell that she hasn't hit puberty yet. She might not yet be a legal adult, but to say that she's a child in the same way that a prepubescent is a child involves mental and linguistic contortions that would defy the skills of the best circus act.

What the guy is, I don't know - no one here has the facts as to what happened. But we do know that he IS NOT a pedophile.

Max

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

My first time was at 14 and i dont regret it one bit.

Well, I'm glad I've provided an opportunity for you to brag about it.

I know a good number of people who lost theirs at a similar age (most, but not all males) and are just as happy about it. I know also know a few (less in total, more females) who regretted it.

As with most other most male teens I also wanted to screw practically anything in sight. Biology and all that. I won't justify your assumption and cheap shot with an answer though, it has no relevance at all.

Re:How can they?

[ledbythereaper]

Tbh, this just shows how American's are getting worse by the day. And your saying that anyone 18+ who goes out with anyone under 18 is wrong? Urm right.. well not all relationships just have to be sex ya know. And no one seems to care about age gap when the girls above 18. If the two people get on and the girls mature enough to make her own descisions then I see nothing wrong with it.

Re:How can they?

[OverflowingBitBucket]

I also think it's very unlikely for two fourteen year olds to both have the emotional maturity and judgment necessary for a safe and fulfilling sexual relationship. But I don't see why "A 14-year old sleeping with a 14-year old is extremely regrettable." Not without at least throwing in a few (admittedly very likely) caveats.

Care to share your thoughts?

Actually, I think the first part of your reply here phrases some of the issues I'd see with a 14-to-14 sexual encounter quite well. There are a number of consequences of sex (STDs, pregnancy) that may not be fully understood by the participants. You also have the situation where someone may, as they grow older, regret their decision.

Of course, there are going to be some emotionally and physically mature 14-year olds who are quite capable of making the decisions, and I acknowledge that this is a (big) flaw in my fairly general statement. No doubt the issue of emotionally immature individuals over the age of consent would come up too. Each country is going to set guidelines and a rough age, and if they don't match precisely there is going to be some argument over it. I think as the age gets older the percentage of people involved who are emotionally immature will decrease (a good thing) and the number of emotionally mature people who aren't legally allowed to get involved will increase (a bad thing). As for what the solution should be? I have no idea. Surely not some kind of test you take or something crazy? I'm not sure I could put together a decent proposal in the space of a single post anyway, and I'm hardly qualified to do so. The whole age of consent thing is mostly a subjective thing. One person may want it at 12, and another at 25, and a whole bunch of people in the ranges in between. Obviously, based on my response my magic number is somewhere above 14. Yours might be lower, higher, or you might find the idea of an "age of consent" to be offensive in and of itself. Anyway, my full views, and no doubt yours, would obviously take a long time to go through, and this is a tech site after all.

Thanks for being polite about the whole thing by the way. The last thing I expected when suggesting that growing kids might not be fully emotionally mature or prepared for sex at a young age was a series of flames suggesting at sexual inadequacy and fundamentalism. I have to admit I'm caught completely off guard. Next time I post about AIs. ;)

Re:How can they?

[freedom_india]

Its confusing. Your last two sentences are conflicting with And the process of creating an enemy is very hard for people with conscience and intelligence and without such choices, we do not need to start a war. .

Pardon me if am wrong, but the right to privacy is a very very important right. I think it was the BRtish who said "A Briton's home is his castle".

At a time when the prez is whipping up unnecessary paranoia, launching an illegal war and occupation, needlessly kicking at the shins of people who don't even cross the same road....is he intelligent, sane, etc.?

And even if you are right, who will watch the watchers? You?

Hollywood may be crap, but they produce the right movies at the right times: Siege, Enemy of the State, etc...They showed us exactly what would happen if excessive force is allowed to be used unchecked because of fear and paranoia. And that has come true today....

Re:How can they?

[An Onerous Coward]

I basically agree with you. While the "age of consent" thing isn't without its problems, there certainly needs to be some sort of legal mechanism in place, and sometimes an imperfect solution that is relatively easy to administer is the only reasonable option. Physical maturity is an imperfect proxy for emotional maturity, but it can be determined with a quick look at a driver's license, rather than a grueling six hour battery of psychological tests.

Re:How can they?

[drsquare]

Sexual maturity = periods, hair, tits etc.

Re:How can they?

[LouisZepher]

As I said, that definition can include a ten-year-old. The age at which girls are reaching puberty has been falling fast in recent years. So you're okay with such relation ships between pre-teens and practical adults?

Re:How can they?

[bogado]

A totalitary govern can break in, with people and guns, into data centers and make them give the databases to be searched. So you're safe while you trust the goverment to not go out and seek the information actively, but once the tide change there is no such security.

I would guess that even without a single key there would be enouth information about someone stored in the databases of several services that could give enouth information to totalitarian and paranoid governors to persecute people.

Re:How can they?

[LordNightwalker]

No, I don't like cops. I don't think anyone does, except their colleagues and possibly their mothers. However, most cops over here are pretty decent, so it's not that much of a deal. It's more like "look over there, the assholes who enjoy giving us tickets for parking wrong".

I am however a foreigner in this country, and it shows. Lucky for me, I can no longer be considered a youth, and I dress well (read: I don't look gangsta). That goes a long way in the eyes of a cop.

As to the Nazi reference, ignoring the obvious flirtation with Godwins Law, the problem with Nazi cops was not that they could ask you for your ID, but the other things they did. I don't mind a cop asking me for my ID; I do mind a cop harassing me and possibly throwing me in jail because I happen to be a Jew (which I'm not, but hypothetically speaking). Asking for an ID was not evil in 1940, and still isn't today.

ps: the example you gave about the cop shooting innocent unarmed people, that happens here too. Survival tip: don't be a Turkish or Moroccan youth in a bad neighbourhood, walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sure, the cops usually get fired and face consequences, and it doesn't happen all that often, but it happens on occasion. Usually they pull the same old tired "I thought he was going for a gun" defense, which might be true, or might not be; I wasn't there.

And don't even get me started on our military... Although I don't think we're any worse or better than other armies in that respect. We all know about those soldiers torturing the iraqui prisoners, but Belgium has its own track record of military abuse in foreign countries. And most of the time we don't even go there to fight, but to rebuild what the US has leveled, which makes it even weirder...

Re:How can they?

[Eskarel]

The reason Kobe Bryant got sexual assault instead of rape is that he wasn't yet convicted. If he'd had sex with the girl and they could prove it he'd be automatically guilty and the mother would be using "rape", because when you don't have to worry about defamation, you use much more emotionally impacting words in your frivelous lawsuit.

Re:How can they?

[rtechie]

No, I don't like cops. I don't think anyone does, except their colleagues and possibly their mothers. However, most cops over here are pretty decent, so it's not that much of a deal. It's more like "look over there, the assholes who enjoy giving us tickets for parking wrong".

Yup, you don't fear the police the way many Americans do because the police in Europe are generally not as abusive. At least not yet.

As to the Nazi reference, ignoring the obvious flirtation with Godwins Law, the problem with Nazi cops was not that they could ask you for your ID, but the other things they did. I don't mind a cop asking me for my ID; I do mind a cop harassing me and possibly throwing me in jail because I happen to be a Jew (which I'm not, but hypothetically speaking). Asking for an ID was not evil in 1940, and still isn't today.

No, it WAS evil in 1940 and that was what was specifically argued at the time. Basically, power is always abused. Therefore, the best way to prevent the abuse of power is to limit it. The police should only have a need to identify you if you have commited a crime. You shouldn't be required to carry your ID at all times, and be forced to present it whenever asked by an officer. Let's put it another way: Should NOT having your identification on your person be a crime? Should police have the power to arrest you (at any time, in any place) if you forgot your wallet?

Re:How can they?

[ShakaUVM]

The downsides? I can only think of one: when the thing gets stolen, I'm required to report it and get a new one. That means paperwork and a couple of trips to city hall. Big fucking deal.

I think mainly the aversion Americans (and British, check the news) have to a national ID card is how it smacks of the Nazi PAPEERS PLEESE! It's the Godwin's Law of the Gestalt.

(You might remember the Nazis from such wars as "12 hours in Belgium" and "Belgium -- Road Bump or Traffic Stop?")

I fully agree with you that a National ID card isn't a big deal as long as the government is just and has your best interests at heart.

Re:How can they?

[Curien]

I would like every web site which requires a username and password to alternatively allow me to authenticate with my certificate. Would I care if Slashdot started doing this? Probably not. But if my bank allowed it, I'd use it in a heartbeat.

As for every e-mail, yes, I probably would.

Re:How can they?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a multitude of possibilities, because pedophilia requires interest in pre-pubescent children. American morons.Another example of them hijacking a buzz word to try and paint someone in a poor light.

"Hijacking" is the current buzzword. Using it here means either you're kind of a putz or very clever. :)

Re:fuck you

[Mancat]

They let you get on Slashdot from your jail cell?

Interesting world we live in

[Afty0r]

Where people can say things like "Your site doesn't make it hard enough for me to lie about how old I am" and "Some guy touched me in his car, I want money from a company that lets people engage in speech if they wish to, in the amount of two decades worth of average adult earnings."

Rule of law, Rule of man.... I always assumed Rule of Law was better - but now I'm beginning to wonder... the longer and further we walk down this path the worse it gets.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[prurientknave]

lmao. Mod this guy hilarious

Re:Interesting world we live in

[prurientknave]

btw hook me up with that average job that pays a million dollars a year. I must sleep, mayhap someone from myspace will molest me and i can make ... 30 million dollars ;D

Re:Interesting world we live in

[caitsith01]

in the amount of two decades worth of average adult earnings

$30 million is two decades worth of average adult earnings to you?

See, this is why the US has problems with offshoring. I'll do the same job for only $20 million! And we're off on the slippery slope to an average adult only earning $10 million or so in two decades... disgraceful.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[pembo13]

I'm don't think you should expand this to the world - just yet at least. She is an American doing the apperntly normal thing of suing.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you work?

  "in the amount of two decades worth of average adult earnings"

That means you earn at least over 1.5 million dollars a year? Wow, i sure want to know.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Rule of law, Rule of man.... I always assumed Rule of Law was better - but now I'm beginning to wonder...

Hey! Rule of Law is just fine. It's Rule of Lawyers you should be worried about.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Stalyn]

Honestly I rather live in a society where arguments are settled with lawyers rather than guns. If you want a taste of a society without the rule of law, go to Iraq for summer vacation.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Just Some Guy]

Honestly I rather live in a society where arguments are settled with lawyers rather than guns.

Do we have to pick? Because I'm pretty cool with the idea of a society that doesn't need either of them.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Stalyn]

I think you'll find that a requirement for a free civil society is a mixture of lawyers and guns.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[geminidomino]

Disagreed.

LAWS and guns, I'll grant you. Stop making laws so that only lawyers can understand them, and you won't need lawyers. Lawyers are the bane of any society and outdo even perl-golf programmers in self-created-job-security.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Afty0r]

Turns out my maths is wonky today for some reason... substitute "ONE THOUSAND YEARS" for a couple of decades...

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Just Some Guy]

I think you'll find that a requirement for a free civil society is a mixture of lawyers and guns.

Perhaps, although I'd pick guns over lawyers for making a safer, more enjoyable society (but again, I'd prefer that neither were necessary). I guess it really depends on which kind of lawyers we're discussing. I'm OK with prosecutors and defense attorneys - they both serve important roles. Civil lawyers are good for making sure a contract says what you think it says. Beyond that, I'd be hard pressed to name a worthwhile law specialty.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Anonymous Coward]

LAWS and guns, I'll grant you. Stop making laws so that only lawyers can understand them, and you won't need lawyers. Lawyers are the bane of any society and outdo even perl-golf programmers in self-created-job-security.

What a stupid statement. Laws are formed the way they are because they are specific terms of art. "Plain English" is not precise enough to craft law without making the problem even worse. Vague laws are much, much worse.

Every field of endeavor out there has specialists, and when you want something done in that specific field, you hire someone trained it in to do it. Law is no different.

The multitide of problems with laws and the legal system as it stands now is not "lawyers", but human nature.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[geminidomino]

Every field of endeavor out there has specialists, and when you want something done in that specific field, you hire someone trained it in to do it. Law is no different.

The hell it isn't. If you're not a specialist in computer programming, then you don't have to use computers. If you're not a specialist in medicine, you don't have to diagnose illness. If you're not a specialist in law, you don't follow... oops.

If the status quo of laws is that one cannot HELP be ignorant of without becoming a lawyer, then a core tenet of a legal system is "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is unconscionable. It creates a new clergy by placing them between man and "justice," and creates the system we have now, where justice is for sale, not just by bribing legislative officials (the majority of which are also lawyers) but by creating a system of "he who can afford the most lawyers wins."

The multitide of problems with laws and the legal system as it stands now is not "lawyers", but human nature.

Now THAT is a stupid statement. So we wouldn't need laws if human nature were better? Umm. Duh.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[themusicgod1]

If you want a taste of a society without the rule of law, go to Iraq for summer vacation.

...or you can just stay in america and join the black panthers, or express yourself outside the free speech zone, or become noticable to your local mafia or gangsters...

Re:Interesting world we live in

[Anonymous Coward]

The hell it isn't. If you're not a specialist in computer programming, then you don't have to use computers.

You absolutely have to use a computer to be successful in this society. And guess what people do when something happens with their computer? They hire someone to fix it or make it do what they want.

If you're not a specialist in medicine, you don't have to diagnose illness.

But if you have a medical concern of issue, you see a doctor. And you will have to at some point in your life.

If you're not a specialist in law, you don't follow... oops.

Did you "oops" because you realized you were going down the wrong path? That's good, most analogies are poor so it's good you decided you should leave them to a trained specialist).

Just like most people are not concerned about their car, computer, or health until they have a problem that needs to be solved, no one should be concerned about a lawyer until they have a problem with the law that needs to be solved. All of these issues are irreducibly complex after a certain point and no one person can hope to master more than a few. The current legal system does not currently permit that, but that's a problem with the system, and not a problem with the concept.

If the status quo of laws is that one cannot HELP be ignorant of without becoming a lawyer, then a core tenet of a legal system is "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is unconscionable.

As I said, that's a problem with the current legal system, not with the concept of laws and lawyers.

Now THAT is a stupid statement. So we wouldn't need laws if human nature were better? Umm. Duh.

While that is indeed an obvious statement, it's not at all what I said. Umm. Duh.

You are confusing the problem with the current legal system as a problem with the concept and need for trained legal professionals. Until you overcome this mental block, you'll never be able to grasp the concept.

Re:Interesting world we live in

[geminidomino]

As I said, that's a problem with the current legal system, not with the concept of laws and lawyers.

But you miss the point that as long as human nature remains such that we need laws (which I don't foresee EVER changing), lawyers will use them for self-advancement, not justice. After all, they are also human (after a fashion).

Wtf

[eddm]

I'm sorry, but MySpace are being expected to pay $30 Million to them for being idiots? I'll go hit myself on the head with a hammer and sue Black and Decker for supplying me with a weapon that gave me brain damage.

Re:Wtf

[plasmacutter]

This is a society of the irresponsible looking to point the blame at whoever they can.

They expect others to make their choices for them, and to do it correctly.. thus the reason for laws designed to make other people raise your kids for you (video game laws, TV censorship/ratings laws, movie ratings, etc).. and of course if these other people and companies do it wrong they are held liable because well.. it wasn't their fault for being "stupid"...they outsourced their decision making to you so you are now liable.

It sucks to be sure, but this is what an ignorant majority wanted, so this is what our society has produced.

Re:Wtf

[mist]

I'm sure you could do that - after all, there's no suitable warning sticker on the hammer saying "WARNING - do not head head with hammer"

Re:Wtf

[Camel Racer]

But that's assuming that you are in the %5 of /. readers that don't already have brain damage. ..Now where's my hammer?

Re:Wtf

[HellYeahAutomaton]

Be sure to put the video up on YouTube so we can all watch!

Re:Wtf

[bourne]

I'll go hit myself on the head with a hammer and sue Black and Decker for supplying me with a weapon that gave me brain damage.

Wait, friend, be smart about this.

Buy the hammer from Amazon.

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[Jetson]

I didn't know Myspace was a pre-requisite for the exchange of emails and phone calls, nor that the going rate for "facilitating" rape was thirty fucking million dollars.

Even if Myspace *was* a pre-requisite for email, the rape didn't occur on-line. She met someone on-line and then decided to follow-up with a personal get-together. Where was her mother when she was getting ready for her "date"? What kind of mother teaches a 14-year-old girl that it's OK to meet strange guys? Finally, what's to say that age-verification would have prevented the rape? Do they really think that she would have been totally safe if she was meeting a completely anonymous boy her own age?

Don't jump to conclusions

[Anonymous Coward]

It is very easy to say one thing or another about this person's character, how the lawsuit is rediculous, etc. and insert our own editorial commentary about the sanity of a woman who wants $30million after she hooked up with a MySpace liar.

However, just like The Mcdonald's coffee case where people screamed and shouted over the millions of dollars awarded to a woman who spilled hot coffee on herself, there is a lot more at issue here. In the coffee case, if you have read the facts of the case, you will probably agree that the award is not unreasonable. Does myspace have a history of sexual predators meeting others online? I think so. Does this make them culpable? Not necessarily. But just remember, it is not like this is a once-in-a-blue moon case that has never happened before on MySpace, and it is not like myspace is a happy, fun loving site full of real people (which is the image they like to project.)

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[Rekolitus]

Unlike this case, which is ridiculous, the McDonald's coffee case was actually not. McDonalds routinely served coffee at temperatures that could cause third degree burns in just a few seconds. Read the page you linked.

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck that stupid tardbitch!

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[Anonymous Coward]

In the coffee case, if you have read the facts of the case, you will probably agree that the award is not unreasonable.

HTH dumbass. HAND.

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[pembo13]

My parser found no real point in your post.

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[symbolic]

Sexual predators or not, the utlimate choice comes down to whether or not the victim decides, on their own free will, to meet someone in person. This is *not* the fault of MySpace...as many have said already, this is just plain stupidity. While he should be tried for anything illegal he may have done, her sentence should be a certain number of hours of community service spreading the word to other kids that making the stupid choice to meet a complete stranger from an online encounter can have consequences.

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[batje]

Yes, that happens to be how a lot of people like their coffee served.

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[clickclickdrone]

A wider issue is that we over protect our kids. We cover them in pads to ride a bike, we don't let them out of our sight and so on. It is an important part of growing up to get hurt and for it to be our own fault we got hurt. That's how we develop risk analysis and a sense of what is a sensible thing to do. If they've never had to deal with being dumb and getting hurt, how can we expect them to know how to behave when a real threat aka nasty pervert enters the picture?

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[calzones]

Does my city have a history of sexual predators meeting others around the city?

Re:Don't jump to conclusions

[ocbwilg]

Does myspace have a history of sexual predators meeting others online? I think so. Does this make them culpable? Not necessarily. But just remember, it is not like this is a once-in-a-blue moon case that has never happened before on MySpace, and it is not like myspace is a happy, fun loving site full of real people (which is the image they like to project.)

So basically, you're saying that a handful of sexual assault-type cases have arisen from people who met on MySpace (out of a userbase of 80 million people), and that fact might mean that MySpace might somehow have some measure of responsibility there. I live near Ohio State University, and I would wager a load of money that the rate of incidence of sexual-assault type cases among people who have met on campus is numerically and proportionately several times higher than the MySpace incidents. Does that mean that OSU might somehow be share some responsibility for people who met in their classes or on their property?

I think that because the media (in it's usual fashion) has focused so much attention on those few cases that are MySpace related that the general public has a severely distorted notion about what MySpace is like.

Wait just a minute...

[Phroggy]

MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

Explain to me how verifying a 14-year-old's driver's license or credit card number is going to work.

Age verification is fine for sites that require you to be 18 or over, but if you want 14-year-olds to use your site, I can't think of a good way to verify their age that doesn't have really disturbing implications.

Solis contacted the girl through her MySpace Web site in April, telling her that he was a high school senior who played on the football team, according to the lawsuit.

In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19.

If they talked to each other on the phone several times before meeting in person, why is AT&T not liable for failing to protect her?

Let me see if I understand this correctly: a 19-year-old claimed to be only 18 on his myspace profile, and this is worth $30 million?

I'm not excusing the guy's actions. He knew she was 14, and that's not OK, even if she said yes, which I'm guessing she probably did. And lying about your age is generally not cool. But I really don't think MySpace could have reasonably done anything that would have stopped this from happening. Do you think she wouldn't have agreed to meet him, if she had known he was really 19?

They started by sending e-mail, then exchanging phone numbers and talking on the phone; at what point do you draw the line and say what these people do is not MySpace's responsibility? If I find a (18+) girl on MySpace, send her e-mail, she e-mails me back, I send her my phone number, she calls me, we talk, we go out for coffee, things go well, we start dating, have dinner a few times, then one day we get into an argument and she punches me in the face - can I sue MySpace for failing to protect me from her?

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Rayeh]

Yes.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Let me see if I understand this correctly: a 19-year-old claimed to be only 18 on his myspace profile, and this is worth $30 million?"

Forget the monetary figure--if it was $1 or $1 billion, the mother and the 14yo are still in the wrong. MySpace didn't lie here. The 19yo lied. I wouldn't be surprised if MySpace has a user agreement noting something regardin pages are the responsibility of the user.

The $30 million is really just a matter of someone suing someone with deep pockets, while using the hysteria of online internet predators as the backdrop to drum up sympathy and support. (I'd also argue the terminology of internet predators is overhyped itself by the media. I don't see anything predatory beyond normal male waiting to screw female indicated here.)

"He knew she was 14, and that's not OK, even if she said yes, which I'm guessing she probably did."

The link just went to some stupid login (it was free originally, maybe if you read it twice it does this) so I can't check what state this suit is in, but in some states, age of consent is 16 but there is exemption for consenting 14yo with a 4 year window (iow, these states have sense to not make many prom night hookups statuatory rape night). iow, 15 does 19, legal. 14 does 18, legal. Age 16, legal with anyone over 14. etc.

As to her consent, I personally do not see the great harm if she consented and she was of sound mind given the minor age difference. Teens having sex with teens being a crime is, well, screwed up in my view. But some people will argue law is law and others have problems with a 32 yo having sex with a 21 yo too.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[1u3hr]

Explain to me how verifying a 14-year-old's driver's license or credit card number is going to work.

Presumably, they meant that a 14-year-old would thus not be allowed to get messages from a 19-year -old. Unless, of course, the 19-year-old was pretending to be 15.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not excusing the guy's actions. He knew she was 14, and that's not OK, even if she said yes, which I'm guessing she probably did. And lying about your age is generally not cool.

Maybe not, but a lot of people do it, including teenagers wanting to get into "adult" venues and people (especially women) fearing they are too old...

If I find a (18+) girl on MySpace, send her e-mail, she e-mails me back, I send her my phone number, she calls me, we talk, we go out for coffee, things go well, we start dating, have dinner a few times, then one day we get into an argument and she punches me in the face - can I sue MySpace for failing to protect me from her?

What if she turns out to have lied about her age?

Re:Wait just a minute...

[mpe]

Let me see if I understand this correctly: a 19-year-old claimed to be only 18 on his myspace profile, and this is worth $30 million?

Does MySpace generate an age from a user input date of birth or could he have written the profile when he was 18?
Also since this involves an alleged sexual assault why arn't the police involved...

Re:Wait just a minute...

[hyfe]

I'm not excusing the guy's actions. He knew she was 14, and that's not OK, even if she said yes, which I'm guessing she probably did

Seriously, assuming she had hit puberty, what's the problem? Most likely, he was much closer to her in maturity level than he was girls his own age.

This magical age limit thing is really bothering me.. especially since each country seems to have their own magical number. I can understand there needing to be a set agelevel as far as the law goes, because measuring maturity-level is pretty much impossible.. But we don't *need* to be as stupid when it comes what we deem moral. A childish 19 year old boy can be perfect match for a grown-up'ish 14 year old maturity-wise.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[pembo13]

There isn't much of a monetary payoff in criminal cases I suppose.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me see if I understand this correctly: a 19-year-old claimed to be only 18 on his myspace profile, and this is worth $30 million?

He raped her.

MySpace has some sort of responsibility to deter sexual predators. Yet MySpace as of now is pretty much a sexual prey search engine. If it takes a $30 million dollar lawsuit for MySpace to clean up its act then so be it.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Don_dumb]

Let me see if I understand this correctly: a 19-year-old claimed to be only 18 on his myspace profile, and this is worth $30 million?

In Hollywood claiming a lower age can be worth much more!

But seriously this means she is suing the site because a person she met wasn't 100% truthful, he was still claiming an age over the age of consent. It is no different than someone who is 30 saying they are 29.

The sad thing is that this story displays some of the worst facets of modern Western human nature -
- Lying on the internet to rape a minor
- Someone suing someone else, because they think money equates to justice.
- Someone blaming someone else for having to learn an embarrasing about real life.

There's a big bad world out there, you can't expect everyone to protect you from it forever.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Teens having sex with teens being a crime is, well, screwed up in my view.

I can't see why. Teens having sex with teens is screwed up to begin with. Teens drinking, smoking, driving, shooting, and running companies is also a crime. Most of these will be civil infractions, so why shouldn't underage sexual intercourse be as well?

Of course, how do you define sexual intercourse is the question?

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3984 459.html

Pete Solis was arrested in May on a charge of sexual assault of a child. He could not immediately be reached Monday evening.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Yvanhoe]

If I find a (18+) girl on MySpace, send her e-mail, she e-mails me back, I send her my phone number, she calls me, we talk, we go out for coffee, things go well, we start dating, have dinner a few times, then one day we get into an argument and she punches me in the face - can I sue MySpace for failing to protect me from her?

Not only MySpace, but also AOL, AT&T, Starbucks, a few french restaurants and the Wrestling Foundation. If you don't manage to get at least 500 millions, I suggest a lawyer change.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[o'reor]

> Not only MySpace, but also AOL, AT&T, Starbucks, a few french restaurants and the Wrestling Foundation.

I don't want to know what kind of 18+ girl you might want to pick up at the Wrestling Foundation. :-)

But if you get punched in the face by one of them, it sure is gonna cost you more than getting punched by the average 18+ girl... and well, somehow you asked for it ;-)

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Tim C]

As others have asked, where was the girl's mother when all of this was going on? Why the hell did she let her daughter go off with a strange boy unsupervised? Even if she didn't know how old he was it's utterly irresponsible of her.

You can argue that MySpace has a responsibilty to deter sexual predators, although for the life of me I can't think of a truly effective method; you don't have to be over 18 to rape someone. However, the girl's mother definitely has a responsibility to ensure the safety of her daughter, and nothing I've seen so far gives me any confidence that she attempted to do so.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Maelwryth]

"then one day we get into an argument and she punches me in the face - can I sue MySpace for failing to protect me from her" No, but when the cops turn up you would probably be arrested to protect the poor sobbing girl. Cynical aren't I.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

Assume the mother is a crackwhore that still doesn't mean...

1. Bad parenting exempts a corporation from responsibility.
2. All minors, who were sexually assaulted by someone from MySpace, have bad parents.

Face it, MySpace has a role to play in protecting minors from sexual predators. If MySpace does not do all
that is in their power to do so they can be held liable.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because there are circumstances where having a sex with a minor who gives consent could be deemed moral does not make all similar circumstances moral.

The most frequent case is an adult taking advantage of a minor's immaturity for sexual gain. If you think this is okay you might want to reexamine your moral principles or else end up staring down Chris Hansen.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[ReeKorl]

Age verification is fine for sites that require you to be 18 or over, but if you want 14-year-olds to use your site, I can't think of a good way to verify their age that doesn't have really disturbing implications.

How about a passport? Passports have uniquely identifying codes, and the date of birth of the owner is stored electronically on the passport database. Input your passport number on the site, and your name and address, and it's completely checkable.

Disturbing implications? None. The site is large, and if the passport data ever got sold or otherwise leaked, they'd be liable for billions of dollars in compensation. They'd police the data themselves, or be destroyed.

I'd be surprised if you're not willing to put your credit card details on a site such as Amazon, because you feel safe that they won't 'lose' your data. Why should you feel any different about a different piece of data (one which can't even lose you money if it's leaked) on another site which is similar in size?

Now I realise a large proportion of American citizens have never left the country and therefore don't have a passport. However... how many other countries can say that? Not many. If you really want to get onto a site and you don't have a passport, where's the problem in applying for one?

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Turkey Trotter]

Excuse me but where does it say in any article that he raped her??

As I read it he sexually assaulted her. That may involve anything from a grope of her chest or backside to full blown intercourse.

As there is no definition of the actual assault there is no reason to shout rape.

As for MySpace being responsible, what a load of cr@p. All responsibility on MySpace's part ceased when the first email was sent directly between the parties involved.

I hope MySpace has the balls to fight this rather than settling. Someone somewhere has to make a stand against this litigation culture. Hell they have to fight otherwise there will be teenage girls crawling out of the woodwork to sue them for the next 10 years.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[m0nstr42]

This magical age limit thing is really bothering me.. especially since each country seems to have their own magical number.

The laws on age of consent vary not only by country, but also by state in the US. Many states have age-proximity clauses as well - for example if the age of consent is 16, but the girl is 16 and the guy is 18, it may not be a legal problem, or it may be a lesser offense like corruption of a minor rather than statutory rape.

Not to sound like a pedo; I started dating my now-wife in high school when I was a senior and she was a sophomore. It was in our business to be aware of these things (just in case, you know).

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Lehk228]

http://www.ageofconsent.com/

Re:Wait just a minute...

[ElleyKitten]

An American passport cost $40 the last time I got one (it's probably more now). Now, depending on your income, it may or may not be much money, but I wouldn't pay that just to go on myspace. I imagine that parents of 14 year olds wouldn't be too happy to go buy a passport for their child just so they can go on some stupid ad-covered website, which has a reputation for pedophiles anyways.

I'm pretty sure that most, or at least a large percentage, of myspace's userbase are American, and given that we typically lack passports (and are lazy) I'd imagine people would just stop using myspace if they required passports and myspace would lose a lot of people. Also, getting a system in place that would be able to verify passports from every single country would be a bit of an undertaking, especially just to lose users.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[swillden]

A childish 19 year old boy can be perfect match for a grown-up'ish 14 year old maturity-wise.

Which just means that *neither* of them should be dating until they grow up a bit more.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[drsmithy]

I can't see why.

Maybe because it's COMPLETELY NORMAL BEHAVIOUR ?

Teens having sex with teens is screwed up to begin with.

Why ? Because some fucked-up religious puritans think so ?

Re:Wait just a minute...

[poot_rootbeer]

Most likely, he was much closer to her in maturity level than he was girls his own age.

I don't think it's a good idea to be speculating about the maturity level of a man who sexually assaults a 14-year-old girl.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[esper]

Yes, but just because there are circumstances where having sex with a minor could be deemed immoral does not make all similar circumstances immoral, either.

Re:Wait just a minute...

[DavidTC]

We don't actually know he lied about his age. At all. He said he was a high school senior, which 19-year olds can indeed be. And I have no idea how credit card verification would have picked up he was 19 instead of 18.

In fact, although a lot of people are avoiding saying it, it's probably her who lied about her age, claiming to be 14 instead of 13, to, I suspect, get around a myspace filter. (She's 14 now, but maybe not then.)

Re:Wait just a minute...

[Phroggy]

What if she turns out to have lied about her age?

Hey, that's a great question - what if she said she was 18 but she was really 17 and I get busted for statutory rape, can I sue MySpace for damages?

Re:Wait just a minute...

[eronysis]

A 19 year old rapist is not a good match for anyone...More to the point, Myspace should in no way be responsible for any of this. If these parents had a boy they would have been renting him to Mr. Jackson for "Pony Rides"

Dupes

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I sue slashdot for all the fscking dupes?

Re:Dupes

[Anonymous Coward]

You could, but someone beat you to it.

More Articles

[Brainix]

It seems as though, after the first viewing, The Statesman harasses you to register. Here are some more reports of the same story.

Next up: Teen sues the Internet

[__aaxwdb6741]

A 14-year old is suing the Internet for $30 billin, claiming that the technology failed to protect her from a 19-year old she met...
wait, screw this parody.

What the fuck is a 14-year kid old doing meeting a 19-year old she met om MySpace? I think she should sue her parents for not beating her enough.

Re:Next up: Teen sues the Internet

[fleagal271]

I recall asking a similar question about a friend's daughter (she was 14, her boyfriend 17). The answer was "what is the average 14 year old boy like? She thinks they are childish hence the 17 year old boyfriend". I do still wonder about the 17 year old's motives though.

Back to the topic. Frivilous lawsuits - what are the chances that the 17 year old will be called as a witness for the girl against MySpace? And to then launch his own claim for damages arising from the sullying of his name and reputation by 'setting him up' with a 14 year old date? Stranger things have happened...

Re:Next up: Teen sues the Internet

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

What the fuck is a 14-year kid old doing meeting a 19-year old she met om MySpace? I think she should sue her parents for not beating her enough.

Can the 19-year-old sue the 14-year-old or her family for both enticement (the closest legal concept to seduction) and for defaming his name? After all, if the girl didn't want to run off with the guy, or the family of the girl paid attention to where she was going and with whom, he wouldn't've been about to be prosecuted for statutory.

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[Yvanhoe]

And I may add, it seems equally plausible that the 19 years old guy wasn't even aware he was talking with a minor. I am sure he could sue for another 30 millions...

Require retention of conversations for underage

[RapedByKateMorrow]

If teens must use myspace, teenspace, yourspace, funkyspace, pinkspace, lacyspace, or whatever, make the retention of their conversations a requirement. The prohibition of sex with minors, of voting for minors, of access to alcohol and porn to minors, are well founded. Minors are not known for adult reasoning skills. Adult parents are still in their lives for a very good reason: Adults (should be) more knowledgeable and responsible, and should be educating their kids. They should also be monitoring their kids. Give the parent the tools to monitor the chat and messaging behaviour of their kids. Fuck their privacy, or realize it's your fault as parent when they get fucked.

Re:Require retention of conversations for underage

[dbIII]

Give the parent the tools to monitor the chat and messaging behaviour of their kids

It is incredibly simple - put the PC in the living room and pay attention to what the children are doing. Blaming the victim is pointless but a couple of simple steps and a bit of parental reponsibility can stop a few future victims. Selling the net as a sanitised, safe environment is just as silly as doing the same thing with a bus terminal - no amount of placebo filtering programs or trying to software restrict to OMG Ponies sites is going to help.

Re:Require retention of conversations for underage

[1u3hr]

Give the parent the tools to monitor the chat and messaging behaviour of their kids.

Great idea. I can see teenagers flocking to a site like that. And celibacy is the cure for AIDS.

Re:Require retention of conversations for underage

[clickclickdrone]

Another issue which no-one seems to have considered is that the age of consent varies from country to country. Are MySpace expected to track every single user and cross match to their alleged home country and that countries current rules?
Even then, the reality in each country is quite different to what the law states. Some will turn a blind eye to e.g. a 15yo and a 16yo having sex even though it's technically illegal but will go after a 34yo sleeping with a 15yo no matter how consensual.
Another wrinkle is different ages of consent for same sex couples compared to straight.

Re:Require retention of conversations for underage

[RapedByKateMorrow]

OK, put the PC in the living room. Sit on the couch 6' away, and monitor what your teen is reading and typing, in 10pt font.

Re:Require retention of conversations for underage

[dbIII]

Body language. For example if they glance at you every now and again to see if you are watching them it's likely they are doing something you wouldn't approve of. You can't give up and rely on some placebo porn filter or something to try to limit them to "safe" areas - the whole point of giving kids access to the net is to let them search out information and a bit of googling would get past any filter. You have to leave them alone eventually after they've earned your trust - but the point is to get them to know a few things first so they don't get conned by someone after their money, body or dragging their mind into some weird cult.

Execute the lawyer, IMO.

[Max Threshold]

Execute the lawyer who talked her into this, IMO.

Or at least disbar him. But that might not be enough of a deterrent.

Underpants Gnomes

[HenryKoren]

Phase 1: Sign up on myspace, lie about age
Phase 2: Fuck around with your boyfriend
Phase 3: Lawyer up and sue!
Phase 4: ???
Phase 5: 30 Million Dollars Profit.

Re:Underpants Gnomes

[geminidomino]

Thank you for being one of the handful of posters considering the possibility that SHE was the one who lied about her age.

The idea of a 19-year-old high school senior isn't that far fetched (it's called being held back a year)

Someone has to say it....

[kjart]

OMG, $30 million worth of ponies!!!111one

Re:Someone has to say it....

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming the girl's mother doesn't pocket most of the money, which we all know would happen without a doubt.

Sue /.

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

I think I'm going to sue /. for not protecting me against wasting my time. That should be worth a few millions too, right?
And if that fails I could sue my laywer for not protecting me against sueing someone for rediculous reasons.

Re:Sue /.

[Pesh Hawksfire]

Better.

Sue slashdot for genocide. They have stopped three generations of geeks from reproducing.

We're taking this one...TO THE TOP.

Re:Sue /.

[edwardpickman]

I think I'm going to sue /. for not protecting me against wasting my time. That should be worth a few millions too, right? And if that fails I could sue my laywer for not protecting me against sueing someone for rediculous reasons.

Yes but you have to prove that without Slashdot you wouldn't be wasting your time. Mastrobation doesn't count.

Re:Sue /.

[Stratus Fear]

Clearly you should also sue your English teacher for failing to ingrain in your mind the correct spelling of "ridiculous."

Re:Sue /.

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

1) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
2) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
3) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
4) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
5) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
6) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
7) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
...
99) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.
100) I will not misspell ridiculous anymore.

Just like in the old days...

Re:Sue /.

[zen-theorist]

... next you could sue slashdot for not hooking you up with several 19yo high school quarterbacks who take you out in their car and hump you in the backseat. btw, does slashdot even have $30M?

Re:Sue /.

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

As a lesbian I would be very offended if /. tried to hook me up with high school quarterbacks.

All together now .. Show Me The Monnnnnaaaay!

[Krolley]

From TFA: "The lawsuit claims that the Web site does not require users to verify their age and calls the security measures aimed at preventing strangers from contacting users younger than 16 'utterly ineffective'." And then this: "In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19."

This suit is bogus, the claimants are going after who has the money. If the girl believed the guy to be much younger than he was based on his online profile, she obviously was not alarmed enough to brush him off upon meeting him. In fact, she spent several hours with him. The fact that this guy allegedly sexually assaulted her has absolutely nothing to do with MySpace at all.

I have no sympathy

[Anonymous Coward]

Myspace didn't do anything wrong.

Myspace may as well be named MeatSpace for all the horny people, but that doesn't entitle anyone to $LIFECHANGINGAMOUNTSOFMONEY for stupid personal decisions. It's like going into a bar, going home with $JRANDOM, and that person being the _OMGWTFBBQwrong_one_. It's tragic, but, but the bar doesn't owe anyone anything. Quitcherbitchin, shut up, and buck up. The Internet was never meant to be kiddie proof.

Crissakes, I wish someone would sexually assault _me_ for once.

Re:I have no sympathy

[lukas84]

Just go to jail for copying movies.

I'm sure there are some lovely boys which would like to get to know you.

Bull...

[Anonymous Coward]

If she is old enough to want 30M$, she is old enough to understand what is going on and protect herself. This is pure greed. And as I guy, feeling threatened by this kind of attitude, I say to her: f***YouVeryMuch.

34

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[Pieroxy]

I am sure he could sue for another 30 millions
Sorry, but due to rampant inflation, the rate today is already $32 millions.
--
Krazy Kat and Ignatz Mouse

Evil and Dangerous

[eBayDoug]

Mothers and Fathers: All 19 year old boys are evil and potentially dangerous to your daughters.

Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[CaptainTux]

The teen didn't sue MySpace.com. Her mother did. Here's a link to the CNet story: http://news.com.com/2060-10802_3-0.html?tag=nefd.b l

Re:Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[kjart]

From the article you linked (which is informative):

"MySpace is more concerned about making money than protecting children online," Adam Loewy, who is representing the girl and her mother in the lawsuit against MySpace, told the newspaper.

Sounds like the same could be said for her mother.

/cynical

Re:Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course the "child" didn't sue. A child can not sue anyone, someone, parent or designated guardian, must sue in their behalf. IANAL and too lazy to Google for documentation of this commonly known fact. Furthermore they can not enter into a contract of any kind, but a parent or guardian can enter them into one in their behalf. Wonder what that little gem does for TOS and EULA clicks?

Re:Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[nwbvt]

I was just about to say, how long before a parent gets sued for failing to protect their kid? Knowing our lawyer happy society, not long...

Re:Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[geminidomino]

That's a suit I could get behind...

Re:Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[EnsilZah]

All this shows is that stupidity and lack of responsibility are hereditary.

Re:Teen *didn't* sue MySpace

[Anonymous Coward]

...so in other words, someone suing some 3rd party for someone else supposedly going along with something questionable. hmm...

Simple formula

[edwardpickman]

Irresponsible person+Lawyer=Profit. Economics 101.

Negative Publicity Backmail, $50K

[BlueCoder]

This is just a pure and simple case of negative publicity blackmail. There is no merit but it certainly attracts lots of negative publicity on myspace, hence this will be paid off in two day for $50K at least. This is why court cases should be kept quiet until they are resolved unless there is truely a redeaming purpose in making it public other than entertainment value. Seal the cases and have anyone that wants to look at it privately sign an NDA.

It all amounts to slander.

What we really need on the internet is a reputation tracking system for lawyers that take on cases like this.

Re:Negative Publicity Backmail, $50K

[mjwx]

A lawer reputation tracking system will only make it easier for idiots to find lawers that win frivolous law suits

Well they have a small paragraph in the terms...

[dlichterman]

from the myspace terms and conditions
====
Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MYSPACE.COM BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MYSPACE.COM HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MYSPACE.COM'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MYSPACE.COM FOR THE SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP.

Indemnity. You agree to indemnify and hold MySpace.com, its subsidiaries, and affiliates, and their respective officers, agents, partners and employees, harmless from any loss, liability, claim, or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of your use of the Services in violation of this Agreement and/or arising from a breach of this Agreement and/or any breach of your representations and warranties set forth above and/or if any Content that you post on the Website or through the Services causes MySpace.com to be liable to another.
====
http://www1.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=misc. terms

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need either

[Opportunist]

Imagine people who do not have a CC or driving license. Yes, may sound strange to a US person, but over here there are a lot of people well over the age of 18 who have neither.

Not to mention that my driving license would certainly not be verifyable to a US page. The numbers on it don't fit into a field formated for US licenses. Even if, what would keep me from using some random numbers, you can't verify it anyway.

The joys of the internet being international...

While we're making up numbers...

[nemik]

Way to go little girl!

Let's not forget though the other culprits in this crime:
ISP for providing internet access to enable MySpace to enable rape: sue for $16M
Dell/Sony/etc for manufacturing a computer that enabled internet access that enabled MySpace that enabled the raping: sue for $47M
Microsoft/Logitech for providing mouse and keyboard for enabling computer to enable internet to enable MySpace to enable rape: sue for $2.8M
Office Supply Co for providing desk/chair to sit on computer: sue for $4.7M
Electric Company for providing electrical current to run the rape-uter: sue for $5M

Granted I am not a lawyer, I'm sure they can be much more creative than this. :)

Re:While we're making up numbers...

[surprise_audit]

You missed a couple:

The boy's parents, for having a kid. Should be worth another few million.

Then there's the building contractor who built the house where the alleged offense took place.

The bed manufacturer too, assuming a bed was involved.

As far as I could see, the article doesn't say if this was the girl's first time - if not, maybe she should be suing her other lovers for helping her become a slut...

Re:While we're making up numbers...

[geminidomino]

Being made into a whore by your mother's greed: Priceless.

For stupid decisions, there's puberty. For everything else, there's lawyers.

What a joke

[Oopsallberries]

Almost as stupid as the "mcdonalds made me fat" case.

It isnt justice she is after.

[Anonymous Coward]

She just wants a big, fat payout.

The phone company and ISP?

[xav_jones]

To my mind, they should also be holding the telephone company and internet service provider liable as they also facilitated -- in the same way MySpace.com did -- communication exchanges. Perhaps MySpace could do more but they are, like the ISP and telecom, a service. Use them with adequate (even common!) knowledge!

Re:the dumb do get the money...

[drb_chimaera]

Not this one again - I know this case is a standard-bearer for the insane lawsuits that come to pass in America but this one was actually not without merit - the coffee was served way too hot (180-odd degrees, which is unfit for consumption - it would burn the mouth) and McDonalds knew it was a problem - there were a *lot* of previous cases and the woman got third degree burns over some *very* sensitive areas.

Oh and the court case found her 1/5 responsible for what happened so was granted "only" 4/5 of the granted compensatory damages.

See now the one where a guy that broke into a house, managed to lock himself in the garage and had to spend two weeks subsisting on dog food and a couple of cans of fizzy drinks because the owners were on holiday and then sued that family for a lot of money - thats a better example :)

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[ufoot]

After all, she might as well sue DARPA, for being responsible for this whole Internet thingy. Or maybe she could sue the descendants of Thomas Edison, or maybe those of Alan Turing (but for this, she'd first need to find them out, which might prove quite difficult). Anyway, there must be someone to sue, someone has to be responsible, or else how could we make money???

Stupidity ? or premeditated ?

[ckeo]

Either way... I dont see how myspace could do anything other than what they are doing to protect people... I mean... if you ban underagers entirely... they could still use someone elses pictures and lie about their age.

People like this girl, and Kathrine lester http://www.newfoundnews.com/home/node?from=10
are certainly going to make it difficult for social networking for the rest of the world.

Re:Stupidity ? or premeditated ?

[kjart]

Although it's easy to be cynical, I find it seriously hard to believe that a teenaged girl would intentionally put herself into a situation where she gets sexually assaulted just so she can sue myspace. I don't think things have gone that far (yet).

Re:Stupidity ? or premeditated ?

[ckeo]

welll... the truth is its not improbable that such a scheme could be cooked up... and she did meet the guy... so yes she did intentionally put herself it that situation... if the sexual assault did really actually happen, tho id be suprised if it did. people have done far stranger things out of greed.

Re:Stupidity ? or premeditated ?

[tomjen]

Currently the social minister in Denmark is going apeshit over the fact, that as much as 7% of sextually active teens have recvied money for sex.

So I think that things have goon that far.

Huh

[Anonymous Coward]

I stabbed myself with a knife the other day. I'm suing the company that made the knife, because they didnt try to stop me.

Does this girl have NO common sense? I understand that she's probably angry and looking for someone to blame. MySpace isn't at fault. She was the one who met this guy, its not like he just suddenly popped out of the computer.

If this doesnt get thrown out of court I will:

1. Move to US.
2. Do something stupid.
3. Sue the barins out of someone.
4. ???
5. Profit
6. Repeat

The law protecting the dumb and stupid

[Opportunist]

Remember the old times? When the law was supposed to protect the innocent? When the law's job was to make sure, as long as you act rational and normal, you can consider yourself safe from nutjobs?

That turned 180 degrees. Today, being stupid can be very profitable. Thus we get all those neat little "safety stickers" (you know, the "things look smaller in mirror" crap things) on EVERYTHING. In a perfect world, those stickers wouldn't exist and Darwin would be given a chance to prove his theory that whoever is too stupid to live will be eliminated from the gene pool. The stupid would die out and evolution would take over.

Suddenly Creationism (and its advocates) starts to make sense. Not as a theory, but just WHY they advocate it. I mean, would you like a theory that told you that you should've been eliminated centuries ago... anyway.

Our legal system is protecting those who're too stupid to live. Not every time, mind you, there are still very justified suits, but there's a lot of suits that reek like this one. I'm stupid, and it's someone else's fault that my being stupid and careless, and that I didn't think put me in an undesireable position.

It's convenient to blame someone else for our mistakes. And profitable! But as a bottom line, there are 3 people to blame:

The 19 year old, for he should DEFINITLY have known better.
The parents of the 14 year old, for they should have cared what their daughter is doing online.
The 14 year old, for not thinking what a 19 year old could have in mind.

Where I do blame most of the 14 year olds fault at her parents again. Why didn't they prepare her? They should have told her what a 19 year old wants from her, they should have told her that it's not a good idea to meet a random stranger online.

But that would have required to talk with her about (*eek*) sex! It's more convenient and less embarrassing to sue now.

And of course start a riot about how online media need to be doing the parent's job! I.e., watching what their kids do online.

Re:The law protecting the dumb and stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

In a perfect world, those stickers wouldn't exist and Darwin would be given a chance to prove his theory that whoever is too stupid to live will be eliminated from the gene pool. The stupid would die out and evolution would take over.

Of course when an accident happens to you you won't be angry/regretful at all, you won't wonder what could have been done to prevent it, just one little safety sticker could have saved your eyesight etc. (So in your perfect world you might buy an arc welder second-hand, the seller no longer has the visor as the glass broke but doesn't trouble you with a safety warning. The first flash before you shut your eyes is enough to give you searing arc-eye hours later.) Another point is that the safety stickers help protect clever people within range of the stupid.
Thank God the world isn't perfect. Rather, thank God you cannot mold the world to your liking.

Suddenly Creationism (and its advocates) starts to make sense. Not as a theory, but just WHY they advocate it. I mean, would you like a theory that told you that you should've been eliminated centuries ago...

Would you like a theory? Since when did the truth depend on what you would like? You sound like the kind of person who'd understand this better than anyone.
Incidentally, Darwin's theory hasn't been repealed, nature is still selecting, this time against brainy people who have hangups, have fewer children, exclude themselves from society. Perhaps society's combined intelligence is better than individual intelligence...

Re:The law protecting the dumb and stupid

[Opportunist]

Before using ANY kind of equipment, I would check for safety hazards. Not on some stupid sticker or label, I'd get training with the equipment, at the very least read the manual or, if there is no such thing, look up potential safety hazards (libraries and google are your friend there) until I am familiar with it. At least when a normally sane mind could see some kind of hazard coming with it, and I DO hope we can agree that something creating temperatures beyond the melting point of steel IS potentially dangerous, yes?

What happened to common sense? I mean, besides it not being very common these days. Where I come from, you're required BY LAW to apply "common sense" when you handle or operate anything. If a normally intelligent person could have seen the danger, you have no case, and only yourself to blame for being too stupid to keep yourself out of harm's way. Unless you're willing to admit you're too stupid to take care of yourself. That's quite possible too, but then you're pretty much begging for incapacitation.

If you should have known that what you did is NO good idea, either because no role model you could've had does it or because pretty much every instruction or handling manual tells you it's NO good idea, you, and you alone, are to be blamed for being too stupid to get information. I dunno about the US, but here YOU are responsible for getting the necessary information to keep you safe. Not the manufacturer and not the government. They are required to keep the information available for you (manuals, online, library, you name it), but they can't be held liable if the info is there and you refuse to get it.

BTW, the intelligence of any group or society is determined by the intelligence of the loudest screaming member. Which, coincidentally, is usually also the stupidest.

Re:The law protecting the dumb and stupid

[robertjw]

The 14 year old, for not thinking what a 19 year old could have in mind.

If you think a 14 year old didn't know exactly what the 19 year old had in mind you are delusional. If the kid was on myspace I doubt she was completely innocent about sex. I refuse to believe she went on a date with a 19 year old and didn't have any inkling that she was doing something wrong.

Re:The law protecting the dumb and stupid

[the hesper]

"Our legal system is protecting those who're too stupid to live."

appropriate contraction, eh?

Re:the dumb do get the money...

[1u3hr]

Remember McDonalds and the woman who sued because of the hot coffee cup in her lap?

Read about what really happened before drawing parallels.

How do we protect teens from their own ignorance?

[thephydes]

As a high school teacher and father of 4 children, I can assure you all that by 14 they have already started making their own decisions. How we protect them from their own ignorance is something that anyone who works with teens wonders every day. Unfortunately they possess a childs brain inside and (almost) adult body .......

Who's at fault?

[Nicodemus101]

Okay lets say i'm a 14 year old girl ( I could be you neva know )
I'm walking along the road after school, a STRANGER in ford pinto drives up and starts chatting to me.

My first reaction is "Hi there, my name Mary, I live at 21 Idiot street, Moron town, Schmuckville. Pick em up at 4:00pm and please don't tell my mom"

Please the first thing parents tell kids "Don't talk to strangers" least of all give out your address and telephone number to these people. Frankly the mother should be blamed for not installing proper ethics and safety precautions with her child.

If your child wants to meet strange people on the internet they have a myriad of sites to go to do this, you mind as well sue MSN/GoogleTalk/Yahoo/ICQ and any other messaging service there is.

Re:Who's at fault?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who is at fault? The car company for enabling this to happen! Sue Sue Sue!!!!

Suing for stupidity

[99luftballon]

There really seems to be little legal case here. For years now therer's been information campaign after campaign about the safety aspects of meeting people you've met online in the offline world. She spent the whole afternoon with this guy and took him back to her place. If the assault is proven then her beef is with the attacker - you can't sue a friend for introducing you to someone who then assaults you. This has very little to do with online security and lots to do with the fact that MySpace is in the public eye and has money. Long live America, land of the lawsuit.

Re:Suing for stupidity

[shish]

you can't sue a friend for introducing you to someone who then assaults you

My aunt ended up getting out of the music business, since if she introduced a band to a venue and something went wrong, she could be held responsible for damages by both parties :-/

Re:Another kind of verification

[symbolic]

How about an IQ test?

Maybe I'm old...

[NotInTheBox]

Why is a 14 year old allowed unsupervised access to the internet. I maybe getting old...

The internet is the greatest market place in the world. People go here for trade, conversation, news/gissip and inspiration. There are public spaces where you can make a fool of yourself and there are dark back alleys where other people can make a fool of you. This is a place where everyone is treated like a adult with no regard for your age.

How many parents would let their 14yr old children roam a big unknown city at night by themselves? How do children learn to recognize the good from the bad it their parents don't guide them?

When someone has a private party (myspace) and is inviting children to join in... what may be expected? What is posible to expect?

In this case, myspace had no way of knowing that this man could be treat to this girl. You can not assume that every 18+ male is a pervert. This relationship (if that's the word) developed mostly outside the control and supervision of myspace. I think that there is really nothing myspace could have done differently; except maybe, not to invite children to begin with.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[lukas84]

Why is a 14 year old allowed unsupervised access to the internet. I maybe getting old...

Why shouldn't they? You can't get harmed on the internet.

I've been using the internet since i was 11, and explained it to my parents at that time. Nothing wrong about that.

People aren't stupid. They just act like that so they don't have to do work like learning technology.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[Jugalator]

My parents let me have unsupervised access when online when I was 14 because there aren't men pointing guns at me there and they apparently didn't believe I should be "protected" from unpleasant information and humanity behavior, but I think what matters is raising your children to understand the dangers and making their kids understand that going out to meet strangers for the first time in a vulnerable position is something they don't want you to do for your own good.

What's MySpace supposed to do in all this? The only I saw was verifying identities. OK, so you have met a guy called Philip Eisenhart and he's 17. Now what do you do? Sure, this would protect against a 50 year old saying he's 16, but come on, you weren't honestly going to put yourself in a situation to be all alone with someone from the web on your first date in the first place? A 14 year old can just take him to her home and parents, or arrange something with her friends and not make the very first date too "close" and serious, just to get to know him.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[cbhacking]

I think this case is idiotic, but it was fairly inevitable; MySpace does NOTHING to ensure users are of age except asking them. You could be 12 years old, register your real birth date minus 7 years, post some pics off the net -- even other MySpacer's pages -- that look 19, and call yourself ">>>XXX<<<"... None of the admins would know, even if they took the time to look specifically at your profile (having seen some profiles that, for example, blatantly disregard the restrictions on nudity in photos, I know full well that they don't). There really ISN'T any way to know. It's even easier for the 19-year-old to pretend to be a year or three younger... almost nobody gives their real birth year on there; indeed many use 99 years ago, as a sort of "I don't have to tell you!"

As for using the site unmonitored at 14, by 14 my sister and I were certainly trusted to use the Internet safely... but not to go meet people randomly, and I like to think my parents did something right in teaching common sense and practical safety precautions and were thus justified in our freedoms. The only girl I personally know who was sexually assaulted by somebody met on MySpace was 16, and effectively an orphan (her addict mother has no real part in her life). She, as opposed to this girl, has an excuse for not knowing the dangers of what she was doing.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[Anonymous Coward]

"except maybe, not to invite children to begin with."

They'd just lie about their age ;).

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[Ticklemonster]

Bingo. What is that pretentious little tart doing unsupervised on the internet in the first place? Did her mum not explain to her that one must be lame beyond pale to strike up relationships with the other sex over the internet? Predators, hello? Myspace ought to sue her mother for bearing children.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is a 14 year old allowed unsupervised access to the internet. I maybe getting old...

Quite the opposite, I think you're too YOUNG to understand. Lots of parents are old enough to think of computers and the internet as "that computer toy thingie". They don't put the computer in the living room where they can watch their kids online, because toys belong in the kids room. They think of it like a gameboy, just too big to move around.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[xarak]

You can not assume that every 18+ male is a pervert.

Ehm... yes you can.

You can't assume that every 18+ male is a rapist. Subtle difference, but us perverts are touchy on the details :)

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[tomjen]

You are getting old. A parent cant watch their child 24/7 - more over they should not because then the child will never learn to make his or her own decisions, and yes face the consquenses.

I blame the parents for not learning their child to think.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[willutah]

Why is a 14 year old allowed unsupervised access to the internet. I maybe getting old...

Who said she was allowed unsupervised access? You are implying that parents always have control over their children, usually a myth bought into by people without children until they actually try parenting. She could have been doing it against her parent's wishes either at home, or a friends, a library, school, etc...

Parents learn early on that they have much less control over the behavior of their children then they expected. I remember the first trip to the grocery store with my walking two-year-old. I kind of expected him to follow me around, but he had his own agenda and that is when I learned that the child seats in a shopping cart are not really to give your kids a break, but instead is to keep them from running off.

So the commenters that 1) blame it on the parents lack of control, or 2)seem to think a 14 year old has the reasoning ability of an adult, are in their own way naive.

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[Anonymous Coward]

As for being naive, I have 4 nieces (married into the family from my brother-in-laws first wife). I've been around all of them when they were that age (youngest girl is that age right now). All of them seemed to get the concept of sex pretty well, and all of them know you don't go back to a guys' place on the first date because they all know what is on his mind. I got to hear all about pretty much everything all of them got into as well, because I was the "cool uncle" they could talk to who didn't turn them in for all the shit he had done when he was that age (and a few new ones that don't work out the same way if you are male). =)

Although I have to admit that the most disturbing thing ever to happen to me was back when I was 19, and a 12 year old girl (friend of one of said nieces) who had a crush on me waited until my niece left the room, walked over, hopped on my lap, straddling me and started grinding against me and begging me to have sex with her. I don't have very much willpower, but there is a thing called puberty that wasn't nearly close enough to finished with her yet (which is what made this disturbing rather than detailing a felony).

The point of that last paragraph is to make it clear that said 12 year old clearly understood the concept of sex, and I have no doubt she very much meant it when she was asking for it (tone of voice, look in eyes, etc). She may or may not have understood all the risks/potential implications of doing so, but she very much knew what she wanted and was very aware of at least the most obvious likely problem to arise from it (she had protection on hand).

Re:Maybe I'm old...

[willutah]

This just proves my point. I am not saying that someone who is 14 would not understand sex. I am saying that their immaturity leads them to do or be persuaded to do stupid things that are not yet completely their own responsibility, especially when someone else who is older and should know better is involved.

I don't think it is an unreasonable to expect that >=18 yr olds in our society will respect and protect the rights of those who are younger, even if they could argue that the child was "begging for it." In cases like this, it is just to place the majority of fault with the older person.

Good Idea

[eddm]

I think MySpace should be awarded 30 million for doing a public service by slowly eradicating slutty little morons through destroying their livelihood. Kudos, Tom! You are most definitely my "Friend".

My Mastercard moment...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me preface this by saying that I do feel bad for the teen. That should not have to happen to anybody. However....

1) Parents who don't take any responsibility for their parenting actions...
2) A Teen who does not take any responsibility for *her* actions
3) A society that grows up being trained to think that "everybody is a victim, it is somebody else's fault X happens, not mine"
4) A 19yr old fucktard that needs to have his nuts ripped off by a blind homeless guy
5) A website that is a complete and total wasteland, but not negligent since they are an ISP and little more
6) A fucking leach of a lawyer (like they all aren't?)
7) Pricele....err $30 Million Dollars!!! (a.k.a. PROFIT!!!!)

Re:Contrary to popular belief, you don't need eith

[mpe]

Not to mention that my driving license would certainly not be verifyable to a US page. The numbers on it don't fit into a field formated for US licenses. Even if, what would keep me from using some random numbers, you can't verify it anyway.

More to the point this document is really proof that you can drive certain types of motor vehicles on public roads. As another slashdotter put it a "machine operators permit". Rather than proof of age, even "identity".

Imagine this...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Newsflash: 15 year old girl sues Smirnoff Vodka for her being raped whilst drunk." That wouldn't stand up, so why should this? Parents are responsible for minors.

Re:Imagine this...

[Anonymous Coward]

well my roomates buddy knew somone that was raped while she was drinking and the rape charge got drunk becuase she was underage and drinking. messed up world somedays.

Re:Well they have a small paragraph in the terms..

[rbarreira]

Yeah, and I have a small term for people who read this post:

YOU AGREE TO DONATE ME YOUR FIRST BORN SON.

(Not that I agree with this stupid lawsuit)

Get rich another way

[clickclickdrone]

Of course not as they would take her to the cleaners by exposing her on the front page (well the british papers would).

Trouble is, she'd then get offered interviews, TV spots, free invites to film premiers etc and become seriously rich for being an idiot. That's the way it works here -look at that guy that got dragged on to TV for being Guy Kewney. He's now been made offers in excess of GBP 1m for his story, features etc.

Personal responsibility R.I.P

[Irish-DnB]

It is with a great deal of sadness that we announce the death of personal responsibility.
Personal responsibility is survived by common sense.

Responsibility
begining of time -- 2006
R.I.P

Wait, what?

[twoallbeefpatties]

In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19.

So after being picked up by this 19-year-old at school, being taken out to eat by a 19-year-old, and being taken to a movie by a 19-year-old, at what point are you not thinking, "Wait a minute, this guy isn't legally allowed to date me?" Did we not recognize the potential for a sexual encounter with an older man during the entire date sequence that took place prior???

Re:Wait, what?

[TheLink]

According to this: http://news.com.com/2060-10802_3-0.html?tag=nefd.b l

Seems the mum is the one who is suing. So I'm not even certain that it wasn't consensual at that time.

Apparently it is common for underaged sex to be automatically considered "assault" or rape.

However that seems untruthful and unfair to me. It is irresponsible and unwise of course. Now maybe if they both went to the trouble to get married with their parents approval then that _might_ be fine (not always, given the many examples of stupid parents this scenario being one).

Otherwise they should just wait till they can legally tell their parents to mind their own business and get married without consent- by which point the parents should figure that if the two could wait that long the marriage has an above average chance (given the current dismal averages).

Whatever it is, seems the mother is not fit to be a parent at all.

Re:Wait, what?

[Tim C]

Apparently it is common for underaged sex to be automatically considered "assault" or rape.

Yes; the reasoning runs something like this:

1) the girl is below the age of legal consent
2) as she is below the age of consent, she cannot (legally) consent
3) as she did not consent (because she can't), it's rape/an assault (delete as appropriate)

Obviously individual cases vary, but that's the gist of it.

Re:Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, but that's a separate issue. We aren't arguing about whether or not the guy can be convicted of statutory rape. We're arguing about whether or not Myspace can be held accountable for that case of statutory rape. In this case, I believe there is not even a shred of value to the argument because the teenager had time to back out of the case. If the younger girl showed up to meet someone that she thought was her own age and was immediately assaulted as a result, then there may be a case against MySpace for allowing the meeting to occur, but by going out with this guy despite his age, she removed the burden of responsibility from MySpace and took her actions into her own hands.

Re:Wait, what?

[TheLink]

Yeah, but maybe you miss my main point.

There's a big difference between consent and not, even if it's not legal consent.

Go ask any person who has been forcibly raped before (you know what I mean, skip the legal definition of rape crap please).

The age of consent varies from country to country, so that's a bit arbitrary as it is. In other countries homosexual sex is illegal even if participants are consenting adults[1]. Also some countries certain forms of sexual practices between consenting adults is illegal (even if heterosexual).

So even if it is a crime, I view it as a different sort of crime.

Of course one could say that stuff like that affects the whole of society, it doesn't just involve the participants/directly involved alone. Nations have been punished just because of the actions of a few. But my guess is most people don't like that sort of thing (do you?).

Maybe if the alleged "victim" (assume she) says it was consensual (just not legal) I think it would be fairer to wait till she reaches her age of consent for her to redecide in hindsight whether it was consensual or not, meanwhile the guy probably has to pay a big bond, and be kept away from her of course. If she decides it's not, the guy goes to jail and the victim gets part/all of the bond in compensation (so the guys have to be careful - they could screwed twice by the girl).

The younger she is, the longer the parents have to try to erm "influence" her opinion of the guy... If for some reason the parents and girl all approve, the guy gets lucky.

[1] What next? MySpace gets sued for allowing that too?

Sue Al Gore!

[Anonymous Coward]

If it wasn't for Al Gore's insidious creation INTERNET, this poor girl would never have been sexually assaulted.

Oh, relax you old fart - it's funny so laugh. :)

okay for real

[poizenisXkandee]

i have a myspace and to be honest, all these little girls crying because some creepy old guy hit on her or meeting someone in real life and getting raped and murdered...they all 100% deserve it. Myspace is a place for friends. Finding old friends, your current friends, people you all have in common, family members from far away. I mean seriously. If you post all these pictures of yourself and your information and some random person finds it, maybe you'll get attention. It's ridiculous and not worth suing if some guy just hits on you. And claiming theres no way to verify age, etc...If you don't like it, don't use it. Easy enough.

Sympathy but not $30 Million Dollars worth

[stpk4]

It's a shame what happened and she is going to be scarred for life, but the questions arise Whats a 14 year old girl doing meeting people off the net like that, where were the parents while all this was happening and what has myspace done wrong? myspace touts itself as a place for an online presense, not a dating service, anything that happens on the side is out of their hands I think. I rekon its time we made a stance on stupid lawsuits and quick bucks if we the general public dont make a stand now, our freedoms are going to be more and more restricted in red tape, so the guy that DOES deserve that paycheck for a REAL tragedy will end up seeing very little of any settlement after hes through the court system.

You want ponies?

[nephridium]

I got lots of ponies for you to ride! I look like one of the Backstreet Boys, er.. the cute one.. - Wanna meet up? (Please don't sue slashdot afterwards though, I like this website.. ;))

Re:You want ponies?

[Anonymous Coward]

like so many available teenage girls on the internet, this one has a big surprise waiting in store for you. She's actually a 20-something dude who missed puberty. But that can wait till second base.

Perhaps Tamara Hoover could sue flickr...

[ckeo]

because she was not warned that posting topless photos online could lead to unemployment.
RE: http://www.newfoundnews.com/home/node

What's in their heads?

[Jugalator]

"MySpace is more concerned about making money than protecting children online"

The children are protected online. Their problem is protection offline beyond the realms of a website. MySpace is not revealing personal data at another member's request through their website. The children are protected online to the best of MySpace's abilities. This girl wasn't abused on the web in a session of cybersex where MySpace provided a button to electrochute her.

How concerned her parents is on protecting her offline is a better question.

Obviously, they can do the basics as verifying personal data, and we have a similar site in Sweden that does exactly that, but abuse still happens, because believe it or not, there still exist plenty of jerks who don't mind providing their real information. Most probably get away with it too, by threatening the girl to not speak. In the end, your own mind is your most powerful weapon against "online predators".

"We feel that 1 percent of that is the bare minimum that they should compensate the girl for their failure to protect her online when they knew sexual predators were on that site," he said.

The major flaw in their argument is that she was fully protected online, as MySpace does not allow members to get actual address and user information at request. Their problem is that she was not protected offline, and who's to deal with that if not her friends and/or parents. Have your first date at your parents home and have a talk in your room to get to know each other better for christ sake, not his apartment or something. Get some friends and go to the movies and have a good time while you get to know him. It doesn't have to be all "OMG, let's go to your apartment on our first date and have sex". Especially if you're just 14.

Who's your daddy? NOT Tom...

[Cincan]

Sounds like a publicity stunt and frivolous style lawsuit to me. That's not to say that the alleged assult didn't happen. But last time I checked, it was up to parents to protect their kids from associating with strangers and potential predators...NOT websites.

The 14 year old willingly went out with this person...to dinner, then a movie. Why aren't the restaurant, movie theater and apartment complex (where the girl was allegedly assaulted) being sued as well? They weren't protecting this girl either. They aren't being held responsible, so what does MySpace have to do with the incident itself?

If an underaged girl meets some guy in public on the street and he manipulates her in whatever way, a lawsuit wouldn't be filed against the city...the responsible parties are the suspect, the girl, and her legal guardians. MySpace doesn't even begin to fit into any of these catgories.

If the Internet was fully regulated by the government and was subject to specific laws in which websites had a heavy responsiblity to police their users, then maybe this girl would have a valid argument/case. Otherwise, this is just another episode of "How Ignorant People Make Money Off of the Internet"

Re:Who's your daddy? NOT Tom...

[robertjw]

If an underaged girl meets some guy in public on the street and he manipulates her in whatever way, a lawsuit wouldn't be filed against the city...

Don't worry, that's next.

Its was bound to happen...

[EddyPearson]

When we have large companies putting pressure on the US courts to set precedent (often totally against common sense) on subjects, and law changing on a day to day basis its not surprising that the laws have become so warped that a ridiculous case like this can arise...

Re:How do we protect teens from their own ignoranc

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that one cannot learn to make good decisions as long as one is protected from the outcomes. Decision making needs practice. If we want children to become responsible adults while skipping the irresposible years of adolescence, what we actually get is irresponsible adults. The law-makers would probably answer by raising the legal age of maturity by a few years, but that would just lead into the endless cycle of people maturing at increasingly higher age.

Wait a minute...

[d474]

...just how old is CowboyNeal, really?

Re:Well they have a small paragraph in the terms..

[Red_Chaos1]

Unfortunately I do believe this agreement is null and void for anyone under the age of 18, perhaps except in whatever states may have clauses to the otherwise. Only "adults" are considered capable of entering into and being held liable by such a contract.

Counter Suit Suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

How about we sue the child's mother for being a negligent parent and take away her custody of her child?

So, 14yo sex assault victim="slutty little moron"?

[PoorLenore]

Nice work eddm. That's a new low for Slashdot, I gotta say.

Gimme a Freakin' Braek!

[rhsjr7]

I don't care how old she is; Greed is still Greed!

Lets not Mince words here, she's a money grubbing little SLUT and so are her parents. Had they taught her anything about life they'd have told her that boys and men will want to get into her pants, period. It's not nice, but it is reality. If they had talked to her about this when she began puberty maybe none of this would have happened. If indeed she was sat down and had the birds and bees conversation; they would have told her she should have known better and it was her bed to lay in now, pun not entirely intended.

Parents these days don't take proper responsibility or teach their children anything when it comes to morals or self worth, or even taking the responsibility for your own actions. I cannot believe that there is any motive other than publicity and Money.

I've said my Piece\Peace
Richard H. Smith Jr.
rhsjr7

Re:Gimme a Freakin' Braek!

[heffeque]

Parents think more and more that if something happens to their children it's not their fault. Well... wake up, take your time educating your children properly and your girl won't go with complete strangers after going to school. Anyway... shouldn't they go and pic her off of school and not a complete stranger? The judge should sentence their f*cking parents for leting her ride with whatever stranger she wants. Irresponsible parents. She should be given the proper attention.

Re:Gimme a Freakin' Braek!

[hackstraw]

Lets not Mince words here, she's a money grubbing little SLUT and so are her parents. Had they taught her anything about life they'd have told her that boys and men will want to get into her pants, period. It's not nice, but it is reality. If they had talked to her about this when she began puberty maybe none of this would have happened. If indeed she was sat down and had the birds and bees conversation; they would have told her she should have known better and it was her bed to lay in now, pun not entirely intended.

Parents these days don't take proper responsibility or teach their children anything when it comes to morals or self worth, or even taking the responsibility for your own actions. I cannot believe that there is any motive other than publicity and Money.

So, what are you advocating?

Parenting being done by parents instead of government/big brother?

Hmm....

Simple

[Mantrid42]

She couldn't just hit the "Block User" button?

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[Saeger]

Sorry, but due to rampant inflation, the rate today is already $32 millions.

Sorry, but dollars are no longer accepted. The rate is now 1,683 bars of gold and 500 sex slaves.

Re:the dumb do get the money...

[Anonymous Coward]

I read what happend.
- Coffee is supposed to be served hot.
- You can feel that the cup is hot.
- Put the cup on a solid surface before you try to open it.
- (Profit!)
Be careful when you should know that the coffee is hot.

Age verification

[LoonyMike]

Verifying someone's age online is easy.
The hard part is blocking Alt-X or Ctrl-Alt-X in a browser-independent manner.

How would this help?

[Wicknight]

I don't get how knowing the person was 19 have changed anything. Is it only 19 year olds that sexually assault minors? If he had been 16 does that mean she would have been safe? And could she not tell he was older when he picked her up and took for to dinner? This is such a ridiculous case. i can understand that the parents are upset and angry, and looking to blame, but you should be blaming the guy who sexual assaulted your daughter, and other parents should be teaching their children not to meet up with strangers.

Yes but...

[Kildjean]

I was playing with my mac, in terminal mode and if you use the Dig command with the piratebay.org ip address you get the following thing:

zion:~ X$ dig -x 83.140.176.146

> DiG 9.2.2 > -x 83.140.176.146

global options: printcmd
Got answer:
->>HEADER- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 27881
flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

QUESTION SECTION:
146.176.140.83.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR

ANSWER SECTION:
146.176.140.83.in-addr.arpa. 600 IN CNAME 146.128-25.176.140.83.in-addr.arpa.
146.128-25.176.140.83.in-addr.arpa. 3600 IN PTR hey.mpaa.and.apb.bite.my.shiny.metal.ass.thepirate bay.org.

Query time: 440 msec
SERVER: 192.168.1.1#53(192.168.1.1)
WHEN: Tue Jun 20 05:39:38 2006
MSG SIZE rcvd: 141

zion:~ X$

Re:Yes but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats funny. But I don't see the relevance here. Perhaps you should explain your point.

Re:The Macdonalds 3rd-degree burn case had merit.

[rufireproof]

I worked at McD's when this went down. The reason coffee was 180 degrees was because people would get mad and throw it at the cashiers if it was colder. They reduced the temp by 5 degrees, and customers went balisic. Customers demanded hot coffee. It all boils down to the fact that you can't make anything idiot proof. The world is always making better idiots.

Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you

Whooooah there. Wait just one damn minute. You surely can't mean what I think you mean, do you? Please tell me I've misunderstood what you've said.

If you go around to someones place, they may or may not be hoping for something of a sexual nature to happen, but there is never, ever an expectation on someone to "put out" just because you went to visit. Yes, it is a fair assumption that someone who has just wined and dined you is going to try to put the moves on you, but merely visiting isn't consent to take things as far as they want. The visitor can soak up the dinner and movie, drop over, drink their coffee and eat their chips, and at the end of the evening get on up and go, and there's not a damn thing expected of them.

Having said that, I'd question the wisdom of heading back to a 19-year olds place after dinner and a movie because there's a good chance they've got something quite specific in mind. But bear in mind this is a 14-year old, and they don't always have the life experience to avoid making such a poor decision.

My reply to you would be far, far more vicious if I thought you genuinely meant what you've written. It just seems so far out that I'm hoping you chose your words poorly; please tell me that I've misread your actual intent.

Re:Hang on...

[Tim C]

I think perhaps that "expectation" doesn't mean what you think it means. "Expect" is simply a stronger form of "hope" - you "hope" for something when you'd like it, but you're not convinced it'll happen. You "expect" something when you're pretty certain it'll happen or know that it will.

Neither hoping for something nor expecting it means that the thing is in any way obliged to happen. That is, in this case, the 19 year old can *expect* the girl to put out after the things he's done, but she is in no way *obliged* to do so.

Change "expectation" in your post for "obligation" and you're spot on.

So, calm down, deep breaths, he didn't mean what you thought he meant :) (Unless he is similarly mistaken about what the word means, in which case go ahead, rip him a new one)

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

I think we agree that "expect" is a stronger form of "hope", just that we might not agree precisely on the strength. ;)

The phrase I latched onto specifically was "expected of you", rather than just "expected", which (IMHO) has a subtle but very different meaning. The relevant entry in Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary is here. Specifically:

    to consider bound in duty or obligated

which gives meaning to the original phrase something as: "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (you are bound in duty to deliver these sexual things or obligated to deliver these sexual things)". Obviously there is big problem with this, hence why I hope the GP really didn't mean it like that.

Of course, if the GP really meant that, I wouldn't be the only one ripping them a new one, they'd be modded to oblivion, so forth. I don't think the GP has bad intent. I just think the choice of words is... unfortunate.

Re:Hang on...

[surprise_audit]

Never mind what might or might not be expected after dinner and a movie - my question is, what the hell were the girl's parents doing?? They let their minor child be picked up by someone they've never met, taken to dinner and a movie?? Someone needs to slap them upside the head for lousy parenting.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

my question is, what the hell were the girl's parents doing?? They let their minor child be picked up by someone they've never met, taken to dinner and a movie?? Someone needs to slap them upside the head for lousy parenting.

It is quite possible the teen snuck out without her parents knowledge- not hard to do, teens have lied about where they are going since the dawn of time. But even this is an assumption; she may just have terrible parents. And greedy ones too, apparently, given their choice of Myspace as a target.

Re:Hang on...

[geekdoc]

Here's a fly-in-the-ointment of the entire lawsuit - did the 19-year-old lie about his age? If he is 19, and his MySpace page said he was 19, what would age verification do to prevent any of this?

Part of me *hopes* this is a setup by the parents, in light of the "Palestinian runaway" and with MySpace being in the news an awful lot lately. It would make me feel better to think that her parents were trying to perpetrate a fraud than being just that hideously stupid. If your daughter is 14, you meet the people she goes out with, whether platonic or romantic. No exceptions.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you

Whooooah there. Wait just one damn minute. You surely can't mean what I think you mean, do you? Please tell me I've misunderstood what you've said.

For a first date, expecting to participate in polite conversation, to agree to a suggestion for a future date, and perhaps even to give a polite goodnight kiss at the end would all be reasonable. Without substantial prior precedent from previous mutual dates, his expecting to get even as far as first base is not. (Hope, maybe; not expect.) Even Miss Manners would probably agree:

There are three possible parts to a date, of which at least two must be offered: entertainment, food, and affection. It is customary to begin a series of dates with a great deal of entertainment, a moderate amount of food, and the merest suggestion of affection. As the amount of affection increases, the entertainment can be reduced proportionately. When the affection IS the entertainment, we no longer call it dating. Under no circumstances can the food be omitted.

Re:Hang on...

[Tim C]

Looks like we have a difference in semantics then. I'm from the UK, and am assuming that you're from the US. Certainly, the dictionary I referenced is UK-based, while MW is US-based.

Here in the UK, I'd take "expected of you" to mean "someone is expecting something of you". Well, people can expect whatever they want, it doesn't mean that it's going to happen. Knowledge of that expectation may instill a feeling of obligation in the person concerned, but that's another matter entirely. In the context of the definition I referenced, the original phrase you quote would have a meaning of "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (the 19 year old hopes or believes that you will engage in these acts, but you are not necessarily obligated to do so)"

To my (UK) mind, an expectation is just a hope/belief, while an obligation is an expectation the non-fullfilment of which has consequences, including (as appropriate) the use of legal force to ensure the fullfilment and/or extract recompense for non-fulfilment.

Basically, me and the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary say that expectation is not the same as obligation. You and the Merriam-Webster dictionary disagree. It's a "two people separated by a common language" thing :)

Given that I also assume that the OP is American, I'll bow to your interpretation of his words, no matter how wrong it feels to me.

Re:Hang on...

[Lord Kano]

If you go around to someones place, they may or may not be hoping for something of a sexual nature to happen, but there is never, ever an expectation on someone to "put out" just because you went to visit.

Depends on the circumstances.

If you look back to the Mike Tyson/Desiree Washington incident, you'll know what I mean. No one has the right to have a "Put out or I'll take it" mentality, but under certain circumstances one can think "She's coming to my place, she might be thinking about what I'm thinking about."

LK

Re:Hang on...

[joesklein]

A hint to the lawyer from MySpace!

1. The parents is using the Internet unsupervised. This is an identifyed problem that every School has been sending the message, in many ways, for a parent to watch their childrens use of the Internet. All the parents have to do is turn on the TV or read the newspaper!

2. The child missrepresented her age, voiding the MySpace contract. I bet she did the same thing with her AIM, MSN, Yahoo and e-mail accounts.

3. The parents allowed a minor child to enter into that contract? Did the parents miss something?

4. The parents did not ask where the child was going? Did the child tell friends about this?

5 Also, it sound like the child should be removed from the home do to lack of adult supervision.

PARENTS TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR INTERNET USE BEFORE IT IS A PROBLEM!

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

But bear in mind this is a 14-year old, and they don't always have the life experience to avoid making such a poor decision.

Believe it or not, 14 year olds can think, life experience or not. At 14 I certainly knew that people lied and that its not a good idea to off with a stranger who's face I never even saw.

In this particular case the girl was pretty stupid and there's no law against that. MySpace isn't liable because her parents (in all likelyhood) overprotected her to the point where she thinks the world is nothing but rose petals and puppy dogs.

Its amazing that when AOL was hot they were not responsible, even though I'm sure a lot of 14 year olds met others through IM and chat rooms.

Finally, I guess she does now have a 'life experience' from which she can learn, doesn't she?

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Actually, I'm based in Australia, so subtle language differences shouldn't be too far apart, since we mostly stole your language. ;)

But good to know that you can spell "colour" correctly as well. ;)

Oh btw, I didn't bring up the reference to argue that one or the other of us is right, just to show that my interpretation wasn't too unreasonable. So there is no need for either of us to bow to the others interpretation of the same words. I think we've presented two valid interpretations of the same phrase.

Re:Hang on...

[Orange Crush]

Maybe he lied and said he was the same age as her, 14. She just figured he was allowed to drive at such a young age because he was so darn cool. Either that, or he lied and said he was older. Because, clearly, only 19 year old guys ever sexually assault people.

Re:Hang on...

[cloak42]

Actually, I believe MySpace allows you to be a member at age 14. However, it marks all underage profiles as private (I think), so that only friends can see the information besides age, location and screen name (this includes additional pictures).

The problem is when an underage user misrepresents him- or herself by saying that they're older than they are; THIS is a violation of their rules.

This is why I don't understand how age verification would have solved anything to begin with, because it wouldn't have stopped her from being on the site. But regardless, they shouldn't be held accountable because she broke the rules, period.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Believe it or not, 14 year olds can think, life experience or not. At 14 I certainly knew that people lied and that its not a good idea to off with a stranger who's face I never even saw.

Don't fear, I'm absolutely not suggesting that. I've met my fair share of teenage kids who show a hell of a lot more wisdom than someone twice their age. I've had my rear legitimately handed to me enough times in online discussions by people who have turned out to be twelve to know not to underestimate the young ones. But a good number of kids that age do have a degree of naivety, and some girls that age may not have caught onto the sheer number of people who will say and do whatever they can to get into someones pants.

Finally, I guess she does now have a 'life experience' from which she can learn, doesn't she?

Yes, and it's sad that she had to learn this way.

Re:Hang on...

[nwbvt]

"The phrase I latched onto specifically was "expected of you", rather than just "expected", which (IMHO) has a subtle but very different meaning. The relevant entry in Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary is here. Specifically:

to consider bound in duty or obligated

which gives meaning to the original phrase something as: "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (you are bound in duty to deliver these sexual things or obligated to deliver these sexual things)". Obviously there is big problem with this, hence why I hope the GP really didn't mean it like that."

You left out the word 'consider'. She is not in reality bound in duty, but its very possible (if not likely) that the 19 year old considers her in some way bound in duty. Expectations are not needed to be rooted in reality, in fact they are often not.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

It is quite possible the teen snuck out without her parents knowledge- not hard to do, teens have lied about where they are going since the dawn of time. But even this is an assumption; she may just have terrible parents. And greedy ones too, apparently, given their choice of Myspace as a target.

The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy. They're still responsible, and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place. More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want. I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Here's a fly-in-the-ointment of the entire lawsuit - did the 19-year-old lie about his age? If he is 19, and his MySpace page said he was 19, what would age verification do to prevent any of this?

Its irrelevent whether he lied on his profile or not. The 14 year old KNEW MySpace doesn't verify ages. How did she know? She went through the signup process as well and I'm sure she noticed that they didn't verify HER age.

Part of me *hopes* this is a setup by the parents, in light of the "Palestinian runaway" and with MySpace being in the news an awful lot lately. It would make me feel better to think that her parents were trying to perpetrate a fraud than being just that hideously stupid. If your daughter is 14, you meet the people she goes out with, whether platonic or romantic. No exceptions.

I'm sure its about the fraud; something awful happened to their daughter (although she shares a large part of the blame) and they're trying to make money off of it. How exactly will the $30 million help their daughter get over this? It won't.

This is what the 'protect the children' crap gets you; stupid adults that will have a very rude awaking when they go into the real world.

Re:Hang on...

[bcattwoo]

According to TFA, the guy picked her up after school. She probably told her parents she had soccer practice or whatever. Also, the assault took place in an apartment complex parking lot, not actually in his apartment apparently. Perhaps she realized that she shouldn't go in with him and he got mad.

While I think that it is terrible that this girl was assaulted, I still think this lawsuit is BS though with the parents and girl both shirking their own resposibility in avoiding the situation.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy. They're still responsible,

Absolutely.

and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place.

They may not have had a choice in the matter. It's not too hard to say you're going to an event with X, and get X to go out the same time as you elsewhere. I've seen it done, and I was X a few times as a kid myself. Not saying it's right, just saying it happens.

Alternatively, you're completely right.

More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want.

Or the parents are fine and the kid is lousy or foolish. Or alternatively, again, you're completely right.

I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.

Not all kids are good kids like you appear to have been nor have good parents like yours seem.

Re:Hang on...

[ElleyKitten]

I think the parents wanted myspace to verify their daughter's age, and then protect her from people they appearently can't. Myspace could have made her page private (which they do for those that say they're under 13) so she'd have to friend the sexual-assualting 19 year olds, they couldn't friend her first. Clearly that would be much more effective than them having a conversation with her. "Where are you going?" "Uh, uuhh, to Suzy's house?" "Why don't we drive you to Suzy's house?" Yeah, that wouldn't have worked at all. Myspace could have solved all of this by merely verifying her age, which she probably told them anyways.

Re:Hang on...

[Tekzel]

They're still responsible, and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place. More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want. I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.

Please, you expect us to believe you never once snuck out behind your parents back? Hell, im sure even the Pope and Mother Teresa did that. Anyway, no parent can 100% control every second of their kids time, EVERY teen does things behind their parents back. Its just a matter of quantity and magnitude. If the teen sneaking out makes the parents lousy, then there have only ever been lousy parents in the history of the world. Well, except the ones that keep their kids in a cage right? Those sure wont be sneaking out.

Re:Hang on...

[Luscious868]

If you go around to someones place, they may or may not be hoping for something of a sexual nature to happen, but there is never, ever an expectation on someone to "put out" just because you went to visit. Yes, it is a fair assumption that someone who has just wined and dined you is going to try to put the moves on you, but merely visiting isn't consent to take things as far as they want. The visitor can soak up the dinner and movie, drop over, drink their coffee and eat their chips, and at the end of the evening get on up and go, and there's not a damn thing expected of them.

Oh yes there is. If I a guy spends his hard earned money on a girl while out on a date there is an expectation that at some point she's going to put out. That is the only reason to go on a date. To get laid. No real man meets a good looking girl and says to himself, "gee ... I wonder what her thoughts are on the situation in Iraq". You're thinking "this chick is good looking, I want to bang her so I'll strike up a converstation and see if I can get her number so we can start dating and I can get laid". You go out on dates with chicks for the express purpose of getting laid. Now that doesn't ever give you the right to sexually assault her and most guys don't expect to get laid on the first date anyway but don't for a second think that guys ask girls to go on dates and pick up the tab because they enjoy their company. That's not why we're doing it. If we simply wanted to enjoy someone elses company we'd be hanging out with the guys. If we're out on a date, it's to try and get laid. Don't kid yourself. We have no idea if we enjoy your company until we've been dating you for at least a few months. If you're not putting out then we won't keep going out with you long enough to decide if we enjoy your company.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every guy. There are always going to be a certain small percentage of men out there that are "nice guys" (aka pussies) who will spend and spend and spend and expect nothing in return but for the other 90% of us there are eventual expectations associated with taking a girl out.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Expectations are not needed to be rooted in reality

Perhaps the Australian who posted higher up this thread would like to point out that your choice of words is very apt.

Re:Hang on...

[AviLazar]

to consider bound in duty or obligated

"Consider"

This is a word that is based on opinion. "I consider that 19 year old to be an asshole". It is my opinion and nothing more. He may consider what he done to be ok. Highschool kid going out with highschool girl.

And as the post before yours said, expect is not obliged. He expected sex does not mean she was obliged to give it to him.

Re:Hang on...

[AviLazar]

In the defense of the mother (really she only barely gets this much because I blame her for not monitering her kid) the girl was picked up right after school. Actually I am shocked the school wasn't also sued.

It is very common for kids to walk home from school, take the bus from school, etc. That and since they are mentioning the mother and not the father I would presume they are separated/divorced...in that case the mother is probably at work. I can't blame her from not preventing this kid form being picked up.

Put it this way....do you honestly believe you could monitor some person 24/7 short of being with them 24/7? If not then you see why your statement fails to work.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Details on the differing definitions of "expectation on someone" can be found in my other replies through this thread.

I am not disagreeing at all that guys will wine and dine someone with the hope of getting a little sweet something in return. If you mean "expect" as in "really strongly hope" or "in order to have a chance at" or even "only because" context, then yes, I agree, what you are saying is quite true. If you are using it in the "obliged to" or "in exchange for" or "really should reciprocate by" context, then may I suggest a quick trip to an overly warm religious place. If you mean that context then your expectations are only going to be met by the worlds oldest profession.

The whole "nice guy" thing I won't touch with a fifty foot pole on Slashdot, and is quite offtopic anyway. We can have a scholarly debate on this issue over a few brewskies one day if you're over this way in Australia if you like.

Re:Hang on...

[calzones]

I think the detail everyone is overlooking in this discussion is that the term "sexual assault" applies regardless of the nature of the sex simply because of the age difference between them. Everyone says he raped her. I think it could very well have been consensual.

Indeed, the evidence shows everything between them was amicable until the so-called "sexual assault."

I think the girl was really into the guy, thought he was dreamy (like the girls' Dentist in the Brady Bunch) , and was ready to find out what it meant to be an adult.

Then someone (the girl, her mom, or both) regretted it all

Re:Hang on...

[955301]

More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want.

This can be chalked up to a lousy kid too. You pick your own friends when your young, and if you pick stupid peers and start doing stupid things against your parents wishes, that does not make them lousy.

Re:Hang on...

[Kelbear]

It's easy for the kid to never feel forced to sneak behind their back if the kid already never wanted to do anything of the sort. Kids will never ask for permission to have sex or do drugs because they already know the answer. If they want to do these things, they'll just lie and sneak out to do it.

The key here is for the parents to have somehow shaped all the kid's wants before they even try to pursue them. Then you have the nature vs. nurture argument. And really, parents are only part of the influence on a kid, what about their schools and friends where they spend their most engaging hours. You can do PTA meetings to try to affect the school environment, or move to a nice district(bummer for those who can't afford to move around like that). As for friends, you're not there at school so you can't determine who your kid can play with. You can ask later on, but you'll only be told who the kid's "good" friends are, since the kid already knows you won't let them hang out with their bad friends.

Raising a kid is complicated. Sometimes even good parents can have bad kids. Each kid is unique and has a different level of difficulty in raising.

Re:Hang on...

[AlexanderDitto]

You, sir, are an ass, and I'll tell you why: women are people too. With the mentality you have just described in this post, you're out to severely offend many a woman. Believe it or not, there ARE guys out there who are half decent, and who do not think like you do.

If you're not putting out then we won't keep going out with you long enough to decide if we enjoy your company.

Mark up one more slashdotter who's exposure to the opposite sex will be limited to reruns of Golden Girls.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

We disagree but I can understand your position.

Re:Hang on...

[bdp]

Not to discount what you're saying, but did you really read what packeteer wrote?

packeteer wrote:
Sexual assualt is not ok but mark this one up as being younge and stupid. If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain things are expected of you. This does not mean that what the boy did was acceptable but anyone slightly mature would realize what they are giving the impression they are going to do by going to his house.

Just by reading the two sentences around the one you quoted makes it perfectly clear what was meant, and that it's not at all trying to justify what the 19 year-old did, nor saying in anyway that this is acceptable behavior.

I can only assume that whoever moderated your comment up didn't really read what you responded to either. If they had, they surely wouldn't have labelled this as insightful.

Re:Hang on...

[paralaxcreations]

1. Have Kids 2. Don't teach your kids about "the S word" because it's dirty 3. Don't notice your kid is going on myspace, dating older men 4. Profit!!!

Re:Hang on...

[Sj0]

Forget about monitoring the kid, how about teaching your kids enough common sense to know that you don't mix the internet and real life?

Re:Hang on...

[calzones]

Whooooah there. Wait just one damn minute. You surely can't mean what I think you mean, do you? Please tell me I've misunderstood what you've said. ...
Having said that, I'd question the wisdom of heading back to a 19-year olds place after dinner and a movie because there's a good chance they've got something quite specific in mind. But bear in mind this is a 14-year old, and they don't always have the life experience to avoid making such a poor decision.

My reply to you would be far, far more vicious if I thought you genuinely meant what you've written. It just seems so far out that I'm hoping you chose your words poorly; please tell me that I've misread your actual intent.

You certainly can't mean what I think you mean, do you?

There's a certain overbearing PC-ness to your post that bugs me; a certain air of assumption on your part that the girl is innocent and that the 19 year old had nefarious intents all along; a certain tone suggesting the populist attitude that fosters our current 'think of the children' mentality coupled with veiled threats that if someone doesn't agree with that line of thinking, there must be something wrong with him, he must be evil, or must be a sexual predator himself even.

I'm hoping you chose your words poorly; please tell me that I've misread your actual intent.

Oh, and don't forget to check your assumptions of 'rape' at the door while you're at it because 'sexual assault' can be consensual at their ages.

Re:Hang on...

[Dare nMc]

Article said she was 14, and myspace age limitation is 14 or older. Seams likely she signed up before she was 14 though (not stated.)
Their complaint seams to be that a person who said He was a high-school senior was actually 19. Well from that statement she knew she was meeting someone 3-4 years older than herself, but not 5???
>This is why I don't understand how age verification would have solved anything to begin with
In her case this does seam un-important, however they said their were previous incidents of 34 year old men mis-representing them selves and taking advantage of minors. Without those previous incidents their would likely be no case.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Don't fear, I'm absolutely not suggesting that. I've met my fair share of teenage kids who show a hell of a lot more wisdom than someone twice their age. I've had my rear legitimately handed to me enough times in online discussions by people who have turned out to be twelve to know not to underestimate the young ones.

Well, sorry for lumping you into that group. I tend to jump the gun sometimes, because when I was that age, I promised myself that I wouldn't underestimate kids, like adults were doing to me at the time.

But a good number of kids that age do have a degree of naivety, and some girls that age may not have caught onto the sheer number of people who will say and do whatever they can to get into someones pants.

Well, that's partly their parents fault, after all.

Yes, and it's sad that she had to learn this way.

Its unfortunate, but I also see no other way of learning such life experiences.

Re:Hang on...

[ozydingo]

"because there's a good chance they've got something quite specific in mind"

I believe that's precisely what he meant by "certain things are expected of you," you just worded it more clearly.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Yes, I did read the whole comment. You may assume what you wish regarding moderation, but your suggestion that anyone who responded positively to my comment was misinformed is offensive. I made it very clear to the original poster that I was hoping I had misunderstood the comment. I do not think their intent was bad and I have nothing against them.

Re:Hang on...

[Hatta]

which gives meaning to the original phrase something as: "If a 19 year old takes you to dinner and a movie and you agree to go back to his place certain (sexual) things are expected of you (you are bound in duty to deliver these sexual things or obligated to deliver these sexual things)". Obviously there is big problem with this, hence why I hope the GP really didn't mean it like that.

What's wrong with that? If you spend all night being wined and dined and acting like you want to have sex with someone and you don't, then you're just leading them on and using them. Using people is not nice. A person may not be legally or even morally obligated, but it's a really shitty thing to do. Of course, it's no justification to force the issue; being a cocktease is bad, but being a rapist is worse.

Re:Hang on...

[AviLazar]

how about teaching your kids enough common sense to know that you don't mix the internet and real life?

While I agree with the first part of your statement I disagree with the second. I have met many wonderful people from the internet...all the way back to the bulletin board days in the early 90's (when i first started doing the online thing). The internet can be a wonderful resource to meet people. I have friends who met and got married to someone from the Internet. In fact there is not much difference between meeting someone in a bar then meeting someone from the Internet, and I would say meeting someone from the Internet is safer (you got their phone number, talked to them for a while to get a feel for them, etc then meet them at a bar/restaurant).

The problem is that parents don't have open dialogue with their kids. Most kids feel that if they voice an opinion the parents don't agree with they will get punished...and for many kids that is very true. "Do as your told or your grounded" with no room for debate.

Teach your kids what is right from wrong, and most importantly be their friend - listen to what they have to say. Accept responsibility for your accomplismhments and failures. When you fail as a parent try and fix it - don't blame others (another terrible lesson) for a mistake you made.

Re:Hang on...

[jafiwam]

You had the discussion about semantics now STBU about it.

Seriously, STBU. Go look that up in your UK dictionary. (In English it means "STFU")

"Expect" is a word describing someone's state of mind. In this case it is appropriate to use the word to describe the 19 year old's state of mind in ANY sense of the word. Did he "hope" he gets laid out of it? Yes. Did he expect to get laid out of it? Yes. Felt entitled to take what wasn't offered so he DID expect it.

Whether the rest of civilized society agrees (the point you are arguing) is irrelevant.

Re:Hang on...

[calzones]

women are people too

Yes, and that's why women do the same thing to men. They go out on dates because they want to get laid. They may generally be more careful and judicious in their approach, but the ultimate goal is the same.

(I'll grant you this: one other reason both men and women go out on dates is to find a life partner, even if they are completely asexual, however, finding a life partner is generally tightly coupled with finding a sex partner)

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

I'm hoping you chose your words poorly; please tell me that I've misread your actual intent.

Very well. You've misread my intent. :P

You are assuming many things about me, including that I am assuming the girl is innocent or not.

Also, I'm not sure what the "think of the children" thread has to do with my post specifically. I'd probably share your concerns about where that sort of thing leads. It sounds like you've got a cause in mind and are looking for an opponent; trust me, I'm the wrong person to argue with on this topic, as my thoughts on the topic are probably similar to yours. Anyway, offtopic, my apologies.

I'm a little confused by your last sentence.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Thankyou for your positive contribution.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Sorry to reply to myself, but guys: I'm really tired and I've got to crash. I've made as many replies as I can manage. Apologies to those I didn't reply to, most of which I wish I could. If nothing else, at least a good discussion has come out of it. Take care everyone.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

I believe that's precisely what he meant by "certain things are expected of you,"

I agree, that was probably the intent.

Re:Hang on...

[Mr. Underbridge]

"The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy. They're still responsible, and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place. More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want. I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going."

Perhaps. But if you can't protect your children against their own stupidity, don't expect a web site to do it for you. So no $30M or whatever they're asking for.

Re:Hang on...

[bdp]

I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but it was abundantly clear that you misunderstood the original post. Not only did you misunderstand it, but you then proceeded to say more or less the exact same thing as the original post. I can only assume that anybody who didn't see that, didn't really read one, or both, posts.

Re:Hang on...

[Sj0]

When you're 14, you don't meet people you met over the Internet. Period. I don't care what gender you are, I don't care how tough or smart you think you are. You 100% categorically don't do it. It's like not taking candy or rides from strangers. When you're older and wiser it might not be a terrible thing, but this is just common sense.

Re:Hang on...

[loconet]

The child's parents were at home watching TV ofcourse because, sadly, we all know governments do the parenting nowadays.

Re:Hang on...

[x-vere]

Dinner, movie, it's late. "Come back to my place baby. We can chill. Ok, I mean heat things up."

This boy had invested time talking with this girl and coercing her into a meeting, then spent money for a date. Only a chick would argue that an expectation to give a little back wasn't present. Whether it's right or not, or whether the girl puts out is separate from the expectations of the evening.

Think of what probably happened. The boy is 19. She's out with an older dude. She wanted to be cool. He knew she'd probably go for it. He got to pick the battle field. She felt guilty and told mom. Then mom told dad, and dad called his frat buddy to devise a way to get some money out of it.

Don't get me wrong, the boy was a pig and deserves to be put in prision. But as a victim of a school system that taught me what a vagina was by 5th grade and had me acting out skits of the right and wrong way to handle sexual pressure by 6th grade, I seriously doubt that the girl went to that boy's place without a clear understanding of the boy's expectations of the evening.

Clearly, this girl is stupid and the boy was manipulative. A girl that dumb couldn't possibly scrape up the mental juice to blame MySpace--unless only idiots sue for their own errors in judgment.

Re:Hang on...

[AviLazar]

When you're 14, you don't meet people you met over the Internet.

I didn't say you should. I said the Internet can be a wonderful place to meet people, and in my experience it has.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

You! You're a GUY aren't you! Let me paraphrase what my momma told me when I asked why my brothers could go out galivanting about while I had to check in, leave a number of where I was going to be, etc. and I was older! She said, "because your brothers can't get pregnant." Well shit. At least she was honest about it. Fact is, because society views men and women and their behavior differently (especially sexual), parent's are going to treat their children differently also. This is neither good nor bad. It depends on too many factors to be a "one size fits all" scenario. That girl may have shown perfect common sense countless times before. But it only takes one mistake in judgement to get you in hot water. And WTF is a 19 year old dating a 14 year old anyways??? Even if the girl went along with it WHOLE HOG, it's still statutory rape. In which case, why isn't anyone asking why the 19 year old was STUPID enough to date jail bait??

Re:Hang on...

[Magic5Ball]

this is a 14-year old, and they don't always have the life experience to avoid making such a poor decision

She does now thanks to myspace, and for that she (or, more likely, her mother), returns a lawsuit. It's a great way to divert attention from any lack of education in life.

Re:Hang on...

[syrrys]

And here I thought that "Great Expectations" was required reading in the UK?!

Re:Hang on...

[Ronin Developer]

"He was a high-school senior was actually 19. Well from that statement she knew she was meeting someone 3-4 years older than herself, but not 5???"

I knew several 19 year old seniors - not the brightest bulbs on the circuit - but they were 19 at graduation.

He may have been younger when he created his profile and never updated it. And, if she lied about her age, well...it's easy to see how this occurred. Tragic, but understandable.

I don't condone his actions - not in the least. And, I'm 100% in agreement with another poster that the only reason MySpace is being sued for $30M is because Solis doesn't have it. MySpace was not charged because they are not responsible for what occurred. The case should never be allowed in the first place.

Focus should be placed on the parents who may or may not have known their daughter, at age 14, was being wined and dined by someone claiming to be a high school senior. 15/16 year olds are sophopmores (i.e. 10th grade) - she was a best a freshman or still in middle school. Her parents failed her by not taking enough of a role in her life and knowing what she is doing. Some things happen, but it is possible that this could have been prevented.

As someone who's best friend's husband is now serving an all too short 59 months for having a sexual relationship with an underaged girl over a span of 5 years (she was 13/14 when it started - he was in his early 40's - he claimed he didn't know that having sex with a minor was illegal - it was a consentual relationship. Right.), I saw how easy it is for a young teen to get involved in a situation like this. As a result, my children are not permitted on the internet except to visit a few kid oriented game sights or for school oriented research. Even then, my wife and I are keenly aware of what they are doing, where they are going on the internet and who they are communicating with. Eventually, they will be allowed more freedoms as they grow older - but we will still want to take an active involvement in their lives. That's what parents are supposed to do.

RD

Re:Hang on...

[gallen1234]

Even if he did lie about his age, the fundamental question to me is, "Why is any of what happened MySpace's fault?" I realize our legal system has some curious notions about liability so I'm not necessarily asking this from a legal perspective but I think the point an earlier poster raised about people meeting in a mall was on point. If an entity, corporate or individual, provides a method/location for people to meet, are they then responsible for anything that happens as a result of that meeting?

Re:Hang on...

[saskboy]

She should in this order sue:
Assaulter.
Parents who let her go.
Myspace? Not ever. But in a crazy legal environment it might work.

Re:Hang on...

[drakaan]

That's the most politically incorrect post in this thread so far.

It's also the one closes to reality, as far as the thought processes of 14 and 19-year-olds is concerned. She probably was flirty, (show me a young teenage girl who isn't...there's a reason for lolita-type obsessions), and he probably was expecting no-questions-asked sex. Pick a younger woman/girl, and suddenly he's the mature one who's in control.

We can debate to oblivion the words "consider" and "expect", etc, but the plain and simple truth is that the 19-year-old probably expected he would be having sex as soon as she agreed to meet him (and I'd be willing to bet there was some racy conversation prior to that agreement, or else he wouldn't have bothered).

Was what he did right? Not by a long shot...he needs a quick court date, and so do the girl's parents. Let's not let that distract us from the politically-incorrect truth of the situation, though.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

I don't know about 'wined and dined' (Especially as duh, neither of them can purchase wine.), but I do want to know what the hell she thought they'd be doing at his place.

For real adults, 'come back to my place' is 'let's get cozy and see where this goes'. For teenagers, and even immature adults (And a 19-year old dating a 14 is immature, but more to the point, she is a teenager, so she should expect it.) 'Come back to my place, where there are no parents' means 'Let's fuck'. Well, in a way, it means that for adults, too, but it is more an optional thing, whereas kids have to wrangle a place to go, so it is more 'expected' that it's going to happen when they finally get there.

Anyway, they should teach this in sex ed. It's a perfect howto on how to get yourself date raped: Invite an invite back to the guy's place on the first date.

I would think this was the victim's fault to some extent (And every time I say that, I have to mention that I don't believe fault is additive or subtractive, so he's not any less to blame.), but, um, she's a kid. 14-year olds shouldn't be going out on dates like this. 14-year old dating should be 'We're going out to eat. You and your boyfriend can sit at your own table and talk about whatever you want, and maybe wander around the mall a bit when you're done.'. Letting a 14-year old get hauled around by a 19-year old on a date is just completely irresponsible parenting.(1)

And knowing how fucked up our educational system is, she probably got abstinence-only education that didn't even mention date-rape.

OTOH, there's absolutely no reason to sue MySpace for all this. Like I said, her parents, and probably her school, are both more at fault, and more to the point, legally responsible for her welfare, whereas MySpace is like the mall tht all the kids hang out at that's just where they met.

1) And I don't care if she 'snuck out'. Engendering the level of mistrust withn your child that she'd do that is also irresponsible behavior. The most important thing for a parent is to be trusted, because being trusted is the only way to keep someone safe.

Ask yourself why, for example, assaults against prostitutes are rarely reported. You shouldn't be, as some people claim, your child's friend, but you should always be their ally, and past a certain point, you should never punish them for problems, even if it's their own fault, that they bring to you to help with. Because otherwise they'll just have the problems and not tell you.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

14-year old dating should be 'We're going out to eat. You and your boyfriend can sit at your own table and talk about whatever you want, and maybe wander around the mall a bit when you're done.' became unclear in the editing. I meant the parents should be saying that.

Re:Hang on...

[spectral]

Why not? Make the first IRL meeting be with both sets of parents involved, like any other meeting of two kids outside of school will be.

"Hey mom, can I go over to Suzie's?" "Sure, but I want to meet Suzie and her parents first."

Why the hell does it matter that Suzie might be a senior from the same school district that she met on the bus, as opposed to a senior from the same school district that she met online? I've met tons of people from BBSs and the Internet over the years. Back when I was living with my parents.. guess what? My parents met these people with me the first time. Once I moved out, they didn't have that ability.. they wanted it, but I had ideas of being an adult then and being responsible for my actions and wouldn't let them. (that and they were 2.5 hours away)

Where you first start talking to someone is unimportant.

Re:Hang on...

[cayenne8]

And...who is to know? She might have had sex with him...never said no for whatever reason, got finished..felt guilty, and then told her folks about it...and they were not only angry that their little girl got fucked, but, also saw $$ signs in a lawsuit.

Women having sex consensually, and then crying rape afterwards is NOT uncommon...and coule have very well happened in this case.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an American and his interpretation of "expected" is not the standard one in the states.

Re:Hang on...

[cayenne8]

"Please, you expect us to believe you never once snuck out behind your parents back?"

Hell no I never did!! We had guns in the house, and I was always scared to be shot sneeking back in through a window.

But, my jobs later as a kid were in the restaurant business...so, work and breakdown didn't get us out the door till between 12 and 2 am...so, I got to stay out late those evenings to get into my trouble, but, nope, I'd never try sneaking out and in at hours I was not expected.

Re:Hang on...

[GnomeChompsky]

oh, come on.

The kid is in ninth grade. I don't know what it's like where this kid lives, but where I lived, that meant the following things:

1 - We were allowed off school premises for lunch and any and all spares we had. The lunch thing was also the case in grade 8, but we didn't have spares back then. Obviously, having gone to schools in downtown locations for the duration of my schooling, there was no way that we could be supervised by teachers or responsible people at all during that time.
2 - We were expected to make our own way home via public transportation. There were no schoolbuses waiting to pick us up and take us safely home to the watchful gaze of our ever vigilant parents. Shocking.
3 - Occasionally, we went to hang out with friends after school rather than going straight home. Now, I personally didn't always call my parents immediately. I'm a bad daughter, maybe, but hey look I'm still alive.

This kid was terminally naive. Parents have a responsibility to make their kids tech, and more generally, world savvy; they do not necessarily have a responsibility to watch them ALL THE TIME. At the age of 14, kids should have more independence, and especially, more discernment than that. Otherwise they'll never learn to function on their own. They'll never be safe.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

Put it this way....do you honestly believe you could monitor some person 24/7 short of being with them 24/7? If not then you see why your statement fails to work.

No, which is why the most important aspect of parenting is having your child trust you. If someone does not trust you, they will not tell you the truth, and if they do not tell you the truth, you cannot protect them.

Best way to lose someone's trust: Punishing them for stuff they tell you. They will soon get the message and stop telling you things.

It's not a failure of parenting to say 'You're 14-years old, if you tell me you have some after-school activity, I'll believe you'. It's a failure of parenting for a child to think that 'sneaking out' is ever needed.

Re:Hang on...

[CheshireCatCO]

From the article:

"Solis contacted the girl through her MySpace Web site in April, telling her that he was a high school senior who played on the football team, according to the lawsuit."

If he lied about his age at all, it seems as if it would have been at most by about a year.

Re:Hang on...

[wpfeffer]

The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy. They're still responsible, and they're still lousy for letting their teen sneak out in the first place. More to the point they are lousy parents for forcing their kid to feel like they have to lie and / or sneak out to do the things they want. I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.

Spoken like a person who is either not a parent or a parent in denial. You gotta be kidding me. Even parents need to sleep sometime. I have a teenage boy at home, I'm fairly certain that because of the way my wife and I have raised him that he isn't sneaking out at night and he probably won't for at least another couple of years. The one thing I am sure about is that no matter how good my and my wife's parenting skills are, he will push his limits. At some point he is either going to sneak out, break curfew or do something else just as stupid and I'm going to have to come down on him for it. I did it, my siblings did it, my wife did it, her siblings did it, I think I may know 1 person who didn't. It's part of growing up, it's part of being human. We test our limits to find out how far we can go before consequences set in.

Re:Hang on...

[Yardboy]

The point is not that there was a valid expectation, just that there was a likely expectation by the attacker that she was going to put out. The validity of that expectation, however misguided it may have been in the circumstances, is moot but the likelihood of that expectation is what would prompt a mature, intelligent female to not go in the first place. This girl was obviously neither of these, and thus put herself in danger (whether inadvertently or with knowledge) by not properly evaluating the likely expectations of this man she met on the internet.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Women having sex consensually, and then crying rape afterwards is NOT uncommon...and coule have very well happened in this case.

This is a critical point. Women have an insane power over men in this regard today. One of the reasons I can sympathise with the muslim view of western society.

This is one of the reasons I will remain celibate forever. It is just not worth the risk. A woman can ruin you at any time of her choosing in this political climate and you can do nothing about it. Even if the litigation is not successful, the accusation is enough to ruin you.

Just say no. Sex and or physical affection is not worth the price of your freedom and reputation.

It is the sad truth.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

Ha, I'm glad someone is on the same page as me.

Children, past about 11 or so, are not idiots. They can understand logically presented arguments like 'People pretend to be things they are online that they are in real life. Surely, you've said some things that weren't strictly true online, so you know what we mean. And we've already told you about what teenage boys are thinking about 80% of the time, and you don't actually know this boy is a teenager anyway. So, to make sure you're safe, we will be driving you to and from this first date.' (Actually, parents should be driving 14-year olds on all their dates, but whatever.)

They might not believe those arguments, children sometimes don't understand how things can look safe and be dangerous, like concerts, where the concert itself is safe, but the environs around it are not. Then, yeah, sometimes they need to be physically prevented from acting in a stupid manner. But first come the reasons. If there aren't any reasons, or the reasons are stupid, parents should be asking themselves why they care that much.

However, the parents didn't get a chance to do that. Why? Because she didn't tell them what she was doing. Why? Because she doesn't trust them. Why?

Well, that's a great mystery, isn't it, considering that for very young children, trusting people is the default, so surely she trusted them when she was, say, four. And they've had a decade to prove that trust. Or, as happened here, break that trust.

7-year olds should be sneaking into the cookie jar. 14-year olds should be saying 'Mom, you want me to get you a soda while I'm in here?'. If they're sneaking into the cookie jar, something's gone wrong.

Re:Hang on...

[Asklepius M.D.]

So let me get this straight..... If a private beats an Iraqi without cause, his platoon Sergeant and Captain are responsible for his conduct and at a bare minimum deserve a reprimand. Yet when we extend this view of responsibility to the home front, say to a parent and child, then we can suddenly think of a million excuses for getting the parents off the hook. IMHO, these parents, whether good or bad, showed a severe lapse in judgement and are ultimately responsible for ANY action of the daughter. Such is life. That having been said, however, the daughter bears a great deal of responsibility for her own actions. Unfortunately, our legal system doesn't have a lot of tolerance for gray areas. As for the accused? He's as responsible as anyone else. Sorry, but regardless of whether she lied or not, he does bear responsibility for not looking a little deeper. He doesn't have to check an ID, but anything more than a cursory knowledge of the girl's history should have revealed her lack of life experience. Next time he should think with his other head. Moral of the story? Everybody put your fingers down. All three parties bear some amount of responsibility and should shoulder some amount of the penalty. End of rant.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I don't understand how age verification would have solved anything to begin with

Accurate and reliable online age verification is simply not implemented anywhere on the web today. The technology to do it does exist however.

The only way is to integrate an extremely well encrypted biometric login to a website. It should include fingerprint, retinal and facial recognition at a minimum, with constant monitoring of the person at the keyboard to ensure an immediate logout if the validated user steps away.

There is a buck to be made in that, the first company to reliably provide it will do very well. If only I had investors for half of my ideas... sigh.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

Kids will never ask for permission to have sex or do drugs because they already know the answer.

This is why, like I've been saying, the answer to those questions must not be flatout NO. The answer must be 'Here's how to do those things somewhat safely, but do you really feel you're ready for that?'.

Also, with booze, it's a good idea to let them 'experiment' by getting them completely smashed on vodka one Friday night, while safely at home, so they have a horrible hangover Saturday. And videotape them looking like an idiot. And ask them if that's what they really want to do. Play dirty. ;)

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm American and I agree with your (i.e. "British") way of interpreting "expected". Any proper prescriptive dictionary will agree as well. Merriam Webster has many failings and not the least of which is that it is not a reference for how words should be used, but instead is a description of how words are commonly used. Give me the OED any day.

Re:Hang on...

[skiman1979]

Actually, I believe MySpace allows you to be a member at age 14. However, it marks all underage profiles as private (I think), so that only friends can see the information besides age, location and screen name (this includes additional pictures).

That would be correct. Myspace members who have their age set to 14 or 15 have private profiles. Only friends of that member can see their full profile and additional pictures. Of course, that doesn't mean the profile owner really is 14 or 15, but age misrepresentation is against Myspace TOS and is grounds for profile deletion.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok. I can take you to a movie and dinner, take you back to my place where you have coffee and eat my chips. Sure, I can expect things to happen, and no it is not right to force them. But you are nothing but a naieve mooch to not do it.

Re:Hang on...

[lazarusdishwasher]

Their complaint seams to be that a person who said He was a high-school senior was actually 19.

In the school district I went to you had a september birthday your parents could chose to enroll you in school at the age of 4 (you would be 5 almost all of the school year) or 5. If you had a birtday in oct., nov., or dec. you would get enrolled at the age of 5. I don't think that 19 is unreasonable for a high school senior.

I just happen to have a september birthday so I was 19 for all but a few weeks of my senior year.

Re:Hang on...

[Zemran]

Yes, it is a fair assumption that someone who has just wined and dined you is going to try to put the moves on you,

The average 19 year old putting the moves on is a sexual assualt.

Re:Hang on...

[Hatta]

That's the most politically incorrect post in this thread so far.

Thank you.

Re:Hang on...

[LordNightwalker]

That's why I always tape my sessions. ;)

Re:Hang on...

[ultranova]

Felt entitled to take what wasn't offered so he DID expect it.

Actually, we don't know that. The story says "sexual assault", which, due to the age of the people involved, could refer to statutory rape. Or it could refer to real rape. There is insufficient information to know either way.

In any case, taking someone against their will (but we don't know if that happened) is always evil no matter what the excuse, and purposefully getting someone's hopes up and then dashing them (but we don't know if that happened) is also evil. Now can we get back to discussing why MySpace should or should not have to pay damages or fines ?

Re:Hang on...

[Afrosheen]

You're still operating under the presumption that Myspace bears responsibility for something completely out of their control.

  If I were to walk to the nearest bar, and write 'for a great blowjob call me at xxx.xxx.xxxx' on the bathroom wall, someone called me and ass raped me after we met, would the bar be responsible? No. It's foolish to think they would. The bar inadvertently provided the forum, but the persons involved in the crime (myself and the assrapist) were responsible. Had I not put my personal info out there, we never would have met. Had I not agreed to meet up with a complete stranger, none of that would have happened.

  Sure, you can blame the parents, or you can blame the rapist, or you can blame the foolish girl. But Myspace has nearly zero liability in this matter.

Re:Hang on...

[crossmr]

pfft.unless the father was standing over her armed in her bed, he's a lousy parent. If she leaves the house she should be chipped in several locations and there should be no less than 3 satellites tracking her.
He should also hire someone to follow her 24 hours a day. Otherwise he's just not doing his job.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Please, you expect us to believe you never once snuck out behind your parents back? Hell, im sure even the Pope and Mother Teresa did that.

No, I never had a need to. For one, when I was younger, there wasn't much to sneek off to. When I was a teenager, I had already past the point of thinking I had to lie to my parents. Not to say I never did anything wrong, or never lied to them. In 5th grade, my grades were horrid, and I tried to convience my mom that I was staying after school to work on a project, when in fact I had detention (due to my bad grades and not doing homework).

Anyway, no parent can 100% control every second of their kids time, EVERY teen does things behind their parents back.

They may not be able to control them, but they can build a relationship with them that precludes the need to lie and do things behind their back. By the time I was 14, I already had such a relationship; there wasn't really anything I felt I needed to lie about. My parents started treating me more fairly, and I responded by being honest with them. If parents don't have such a relationship with thier child, its their fault, period. Parents have a HUGE impact on their children, and if their relationship with thier child is crummy, its the parents fault. They made it that way.

Its just a matter of quantity and magnitude. If the teen sneaking out makes the parents lousy, then there have only ever been lousy parents in the history of the world. Well, except the ones that keep their kids in a cage right? Those sure wont be sneaking out.

Most parents throughout history have been lousy, I'm willing to bet on that. One just need look at the world around them for proof of that. More recently, it seems parents have been getting worse and worse; of course its the fault of THIER parents. The most likely child molester is one that was molested themselves. Being fat isn't genetic either; parents teach thier poor habits to their children, who go on to teach them to thier children. Most behaviors are passed down like this. There is a reason for the saying 'you grow up to be just like your father / mother.'

Your cage comment is silly. Caging a child will breed mistrust in the relationship, and that will express itself in the childs other relationships as well, not just relationships with the parent.

Re:Hang on...

[xystren]

Forget about monitoring the kid, how about teaching your kids enough common sense to know that you don't mix the internet and real life?

But your posting on slashdot, and slashdot is as close to real life isn't it?

Buggar, I posting too.........

Cheers,
Xyst

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

This can be chalked up to a lousy kid too. You pick your own friends when your young, and if you pick stupid peers and start doing stupid things against your parents wishes, that does not make them lousy.

A lousy kid is lousy because of lousy parenting. As a parent, you instill values on your child, whether you mean to or not. If a kid picks lousy friends, its because the lousy behaviors of the friend were not looked down upon by the parents. You usually have friends which share the same beliefs as you; if they are too different, you likely won't be friends to begin with.

I chose when I was very young not to be friends with a kid up the street, because he didn't have a problem with doing things which I had a problem with, such as setting fires, throwing rocks at other people's houses, and trying to hurt other kids on the street. If I didn't see anything wrong with those actions, I likely would have done those things with him.

Re:Hang on...

[AmberBlackCat]

Replace "expectation" with "assumption" and it all makes sense.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

It's easy for the kid to never feel forced to sneak behind their back if the kid already never wanted to do anything of the sort. Kids will never ask for permission to have sex or do drugs because they already know the answer. If they want to do these things, they'll just lie and sneak out to do it.

Kids will want to do things they are forbidden to do. I was never told not to drink alocohol, and so I never thought that doing so was a big deal, and never had an interest in even trying it until my third year of college.

And really, parents are only part of the influence on a kid, what about their schools and friends where they spend their most engaging hours.

Parents have the largest impact of any of those other groups though, even into teen years. The influence my drop as the child gets older, but thats why its important to do a good job when they are younger.

As for friends, you're not there at school so you can't determine who your kid can play with. You can ask later on, but you'll only be told who the kid's "good" friends are, since the kid already knows you won't let them hang out with their bad friends.

If a child wants to hang out with 'bad' friends, thats again the parents fault. The kid doesn't see anything wrong with the 'bad' friend's behavior, because the parents never instilled that those behaviors are bad.

Raising a kid is complicated. Sometimes even good parents can have bad kids. Each kid is unique and has a different level of difficulty in raising.

It is complicated, but good parents cannot have bad kids, by definition of 'good parent.' A truely good parent will have raised a good child.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Heh.. I think part of the reason I never had an interest in drinking (until I was much older) was because my parents never made a huge deal out of it. The other part is probably that when I was VERY young, I remember my dad letting me have a sip of beer. I spit it out, and thought it was awful. My sister seemed to like it though, but even she didn't become a drunk or anything. It just wasn't a big deal.

Re:Hang on...

[Jeld]

"My reply to you would be far, far more vicious"

OK, I will bite. When I invite a woman to a restaurant, I expect certain things of her. I expect her to eat with me, maintain a polite conversation, generally behave in a socially acceptable fashion and other similar things. When I invite a woman to see a movie, I expect her to be quiet during the show, expect her to discuss the movie with me afterwards etc. When I invite a woman to my home after dinner and a movie I am doing so in order to obtain the level of privacy required to start to "know her better". I don't necessarily expect to get laid (hope, yes, but not expect), but I do expect her to understand that we are going to my place to get private with specifically sexual activities in mind. That is unless I have clearly stated a different reason to invite her, like we were talking about books and I promised to loan her a particular one. So, I would be surprised and even insulted if the girl gets all funny about it. If she just wanted a cup of coffee, we could go to a cafe. Such a situation, obviously doesn't warrant the use of force, nothing excuses rape. The article doesn't state, that the girl was raped. And even if she did, statutory rape is still considered such even if consentual. Mind you, that at 19 it is a bit difficult to properly handle your hormones, so the guy could be pretty insistent and of course a 14-year old is not as experienced in these things and might have put herself into a bad situation because of lack of experience.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a bit of a word aficionado (not obsessive just more than average) and an American. While I applaud your attempt to "get along", I don't think that the theory you posit is true in this circumstance. I believe OverflowingBitBucket is reading into the MW definition things that aren't there. For one, the definition they point to does not use the form "expected of ". That form is not used in the entire entry. They cherry-picked a definition they felt fit their pre-conceived notion. They also misunderstand the definition they chose. One party may CONSIDER another to be duty bound or obligated, but that does not mean the other party agrees or that anyone else will either. To use a political flamebait example; I consider the President of the United States of America to be duty bound and obligated to uphold the laws of this country and its constitution since he has twice sworn to do so. However he, and those around him who advise him, do not consider this to be the case based on his actions while in office.
To sum up, they misunderstood the word and then misunderstood the definition when they looked it up.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

I almost entire agree with you, but you need a modification: Teach your kids what is right from wrong, and most importantly be their friend - listen to what they have to say.

No. Be their ally, not their 'friend'. They can't be your friend when they're kids, you two are a generation apart and probably have almost nothing in common. Later on, when they're adults, sure, but not when they're kids. What are you going to do, hang out at the mall together? I assure, they might act nice, but they'll be mortified. You are not their 'friend'. You don't need to be cool, or hip, or whatever the terms are.

Instead, you need to be the person that they can turn to when they are in trouble or scared. You need to be a person who logically and intelligently helps them make decisions, instead of a 'friend'. At a certain point, you have to switch from 'controlling their life and keeping them from danger' to 'supporting their life and teaching them to keep themselves from danger'.

However, during early teen yeas, many parents mistake rebellion for 'stupidity' instead of the teens simply not having the same priorities as the parents. However, they aren't stupid, and are quite willing to understand the priority of 'safety', and even recognize your experience there.

Unless, of course, you've emphasized completely unimportant things as priorities, like being a 'good kid' or 'not embarrassing them' or even 'not having sex', that they don't give a damn about or even actively oppose, so they start lying continually to you, thus leading to you being unable to help them with the safety priority. Or if yu start lying to them about safety issues when it's really other things you care about, so they lie right back. Good job there.

Re:Hang on...

[ElleyKitten]

Appearently you missed my sarcasm. I was mocking the parents for thinking that anything myspace could have done would have been more effective than them simply asking her where she was going. At most, myspace could have privatized her page, but if she had been the one to friend him in the first place that would have been pointless. So we're in agreement, you just need your sarcasm detector checked. ;)

Re:Hang on...

[rainman_bc]

Otherwise he's just not doing his job.

I know your post was sarcastic, but he wasn't doing his job because he didn't teach her that with her actions comes some responsibility. Sneaking out of the house and going on a date with a 19 year old she met on myspace is such an action. And instead of explaining to her that the result was a consequence of her action is what they should have done, not insisted she should sue myspace for 30M... Gimme a break; these parents are looking to cash in, and there's probably a combination of a dumb judge and a smart lawyer that might actually win the suit.

Truth is, the lawyer's likely just looking for a settlement.

Re:Hang on...

[Krimszon]

The girl should sue her parents for $30 million...

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

and some girls that age may not have caught onto the sheer number of people who will say and do whatever they can to get into someones pants

Which is why someone should sue the damn parents. That's a pretty important fact to not have drilled it into a girl's head. It's right up there with 'Don't walk on the edge of cliffs', 'Wild animals are not pet', and 'Don't juggle chainsaws.'.

Re:Hang on...

[iamhassi]

"She might have had sex with him...never said no for whatever reason, got finished..felt guilty, and then told her folks about it...

or a more likely scenario: mommy and daddy found out after 14-yr-old comes home, asked where she's been, they dig the truth out of her and hearing he's 18+ says she was rapped (when she wasn't, she wanted it) so they drag her to the police station and tell her to say she was rapped. With the police report in hand it makes it easy to go after myspace.

My gf has a 12 yr old step-sister who is quite flirty and slutty. Kids these days are sexually active at much younger ages. Thank Paris Hilton for making it look cool to be slutty.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

Okay, you're the one crossing a line here. The girl is innocent. I don't know exactly what you would think she was guilty of, but even assuming you meant 'She intended to have sex but chickened out', you're wrong. She chickened out, if it was that, in a car in a parking lot, so they obviously were not about to go into full intercourse at that point. This wasn't 'both of them almost completely naked on a bed', and he put his hand somewhere and she decided to sto pright then and there, or whatever you think it was.

As for the guy's intention being nefarious. I'm sorry, 19-year olds shouldn't even try to get laid with a 14-year old. Not because it's illegal, but because she's got the maturity of a high school freshman, whereas he's supposed to be an adult. For all we know, she's mature for her age, and he's immature, but that age gap is about twice as far as both I, and law, are comfortable with.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

We all know MySpace is basically one MASSIVE circle jerk for attention seekers. She's a 14 year old girl and she's never going to get enough attention for her liking. In fact, all this attention from a 19 year old guy will prove to herself that she IS sexy and desireable (like all 14 year old girls want to be). Her parents "wouldn't understand what she's going through" so she'll hide it because she knows they'd stop her, but the lure of attention is just too strong.

Re:Hang on...

[andywebz]

I think you meant, moo point, it's like a cow's opinion.
It just doesn't matter.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Spoken like a person who is either not a parent or a parent in denial.

Spoken like one of the aforementioned lousy parents. Here's a hint: getting someone pregnant (or getting yourself pregnant, for the girls out there) does not make you an expert on raising children. How your children turn out is the indicator of how good a parent you were. Anyone can knock up someone else.

Even parents need to sleep sometime.

I'm sorry, where did I say you have to monitor your kids 24 / 7? I didn't. I DID say if they are sneaking off, its a sign you're not doing a good job.

I have a teenage boy at home, I'm fairly certain that because of the way my wife and I have raised him that he isn't sneaking out at night and he probably won't for at least another couple of years.

The fact that you believe he will sneak out ina few years shows that you don't think you've done a good job. Why? Because sneaking out isn't something that teens will inevitably do.

The one thing I am sure about is that no matter how good my and my wife's parenting skills are, he will push his limits.

Sounds like you set way too many limits. I never felt the need to do something just to see if I 'could get away with it.'

At some point he is either going to sneak out, break curfew or do something else just as stupid and I'm going to have to come down on him for it.

If he sneaks out its because he doesn't feel like he can do things he should ligitimately be allowed to do, and that you don't trust him. As far as curfew goes, I fail to understand why coming home at 12 instead of 10 is a huge deal. The main problem always seems to be the parent wants to control their child (note: raising your kid doesn't always mean you control them).

I did it, my siblings did it, my wife did it, her siblings did it, I think I may know 1 person who didn't.

Thats because both of your parents were overcontrolling, in all likely hood. People don't like to be controlled especially for no reason. When my parents told me something and gave good reason, I usually listened. I never listened when the reason was 'because I said so.' At any rate, you're doing the same thing to your kid that your parents did to you, thus he will likely sneak out. But because you set up an environment where he feels he is being unjustly controlled, much like your parents did to you.

It's part of growing up, it's part of being human. We test our limits to find out how far we can go before consequences set in.

People which are overrly controlled may do that, but people which had parents that setup an environment of trust and give rational explainations as to why the kid should or should not do something don't.

Re:Hang on...

[Sj0]

I don't intend to be meeting you or anyone else here in life.

What happens on the Internet stays on the Internet.

Re:Hang on...

[packeteer]

You guys dont need to nitpick over my choice of words, I will make it perfectly clear what I meant. I meant that there is a strong hope in the guy's mind that she is going to have sex with him. This is in part becuase of social pressure and guidlines of high school age. The 14 year old girl is not obligated to have sex with him but she is unknowingly sending the message she will.

The boy was wrong to expect sex when they went back to his place. The girl was wrong to go over to his place and think he did not expect sex. I dont know all the details of this situation so many she girl went ot the house willing to have sex but was creeped out. Any adult knows and many 19 year ols boys know that the girl is allowed to say no at any time. I'm not sure if the "sexual assault" here was statuatory rape or perhaps the girl was forced or coerced into sex after saying no. Maybe there were drugs and alcohol involved.

Re:Hang on...

[CoolVC]

Not to make light of this particular situation, but I think $30 million dollars would help me get over almost anything.

Re:Hang on...

[Tekzel]

Well, of course the cage comment was silly, I hope it was completely obvious that it was intended tongue in cheek. It was intended... well, nevermind. If I have to explain it, its not worth while.

Anyway, while I will concede that there were probably, in all the billions of humans throughout history, a few perfect children, and that you may well have been one of that exhalted few, they are definitely the minority. Also, poor parenting is one of my favorite gripes (and probably the one with the most available ammunition) so I would never try to argue that kids are the evil by default. I also feel that most problems with kids can be directly attributed to something their parents did or did not do. One big issue I have witnessed is parents waiting until the kid is 6 or 7 to start trying to teach them "the way". By then a big part of a childs psychological foundation is already set, you have to start MUCH earlier (really from birth for some things). Anyway, this is way too big a subject for this post.

Re:Hang on...

[Soporific]

Women having sex consensually, and then crying rape afterwards is NOT uncommon...

That is as bad as rape in my eyes. Once you are pegged as a sexual offender that's a gift that keeps on giving the rest of your life...

~S

Re:Hang on...

[arminw]

......It is complicated, but good parents cannot have bad kids, by definition of 'good parent.' A truely good parent will have raised a good child.....

Unfortunately, good parents CAN and sometimes do have bad kids. We humans have a will and conscience, yet can and do use that will to go against what our conscience tells us to be true and good. Good parent can help their children to make good choices, but there is no way that any parent can GUARANTEE that the child will indeed make the good choices. We adults often make choices we know to be wrong. If this were not so, our jails and prisons would not be filled to overflowing.

Re:Hang on...

[crossmr]

How do you know he didn't teach her that? Someone can do all the right things and she can still make the wrong choice. People aren't perfect and you can educate them till you're blue in the face and they can still screw up.
Especially rebellious teens.

Re:Hang on...

[Cryssen]

Just as well, if I'm not mistaken, this means that those can still see basic profile information...request to be added as a friend and go from there. I know people who accept anyone who requests to be added as a friend, just to up their friend count.

Re:Hang on...

[NevermindPhreak]

i think some of your assumptions are somewhat outdated. for a certain group of people, at any rate.

let me first say that i am 21. since i was in my early to mid teens, to my current age, i've had many girls "come back to my place." i've came back to many girls places. i've slept in the same bed of many girls, in very close positions. the majority of these visits did not end in sex in any way.

of course, there have also been times when the girl had other things in mind, and those were fun too.

my point is, people don't always associate closeness with sex as much as they used to. "wnat to sleep in my bed tonight" means, for me and a lot of my friends of both genders, "hey, wouldn't it be nice to have some extra warmth next to you while you sleep."

i do, however, have friends that only want girls/guys for sex, though, or assume hanging out with someone of the opposite gender is mainly done to hook up. its just that, most people i know arent like that.

granted, as a 14 year old, she should know that a 19 year old probably doesn't want to hang out with her because shes such an awesome 14 year old. so i do agree with a lot of what you are saying. i just wanted to point out that the old idea of dating and "come back to my place" isn't nearly what it used to be for a lot of people.

Re:Hang on...

[skiman1979]

Yeah I know some of those poor, unfortunate souls as well...

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a tricky problem from my brilliant son, the 14 year old:

Him: "Dad, if I lie online, and say I am 35, is that against the law?"
Me: "Nope."

Him: "If I want to meet a stranger, a 14 year old girl I met online, is that against the law?"
Me: "Stupid, but not illegal."

Him: "If the 14 year old girl that I arrange a meeting with is actually someone from Dateline, and I show up, who would get arrested?"
Me: "um, probably Chris Hansen from Dateline."

He's clever, and a teacher of his was caught by Dateline. Interesting line of pretzel logic from the kid!

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

"The visitor can soak up the dinner and movie, drop over, drink their coffee and eat their chips, and at the end of the evening get on up and go, and there's not a damn thing expected of them"

Yes there absolutely is. It may not be anything of a romantic nature, but there is a social obligation to repay the incurred debt at some point in some way.

This is explained in depth in the brilliant book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion", by Robert B. Cialdini. When someone does something for you, even something very small, the rules of society say you owe them some sort of re-payment.

This sort of thing is exploited by salesmen, marketers, etc. Ever get sent a packet of return address labels, along with a request for a donation to some group? Response rates to those solicitations are far higher than when no small gift is given. Waiters get higher tips when they leave a 'gift' of a mint.

These rules are so strongly enforced because the critical reciprocal nature of human behavior collapses when someone acts selfish and doesn't return favors.

And, ladies, if you actually think your precious 'company' is all the repayment we need, you need to deflate your enormous egos and get a clue. We're providing company, too. Plus paying for everything. There is a huge imbalance here.

The best approach to all of this, if you are a guy, is to NOT wine and dine women. Most women are intelligent enough to understand the debt this incurs, and often don't like it.

If I do spend significant money on a woman over time, and if becomes clear she is not interested in romance, I expect something in return. Is she an accountant? She can help me with my finances. Whatever, you get the idea. If she doesn't repay me in some way, she is a selfish gold-digger, which unfortunately there are many of these days.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you trolling, trying to be some 'Pimp's Advocate', or just that delusional? Perhaps this 14-year old hottie just wasn't "Pimp-Slapped" properly.

Was "Ho of the Day" your genius, or are you just pimping the creations of others?

Sadly enough, false cries of rape do happen, and maybe MySpace is a lawsuit waiting to happen, but sincerely hope you'd feel like a jerk, if she was actually lured under false pretenses, and ultimately raped.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Your mind seems made up, I shall not attempt to change it. You have misrepresented my reply; please reread what I said I found offensive. I have already stated my position. At this point the best I can offer is to reword my prior post to you to restate my position, but is there much point? I'd rather avoid a cyclical discussion. If you're trolling, IHBT, you win.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Slacker]

Back in high school I knew several 19 and even a couple 20 year old seniors. They were far more common than the 16 year old (or younger) seniors. He probably didn't even need to lie.

Re:Hang on...

[ottothecow]

yeah, the choice of words is fine.

and its not that she is expected too after the dinner and the movie (and...was she lying about her age since you have to be 16 to interact with strangers on myspace?) its that after the dinner and the movie when she agrees to go back to her place. There is a stigma attatched to that (unfortunately...since there are many other things that could happen) that it will lead to some sort of sexual exchange. It's not that she is obligated to, its that she sent a signal saying she might be interested.

Re:Hang on...

[DavidTC]

You are insane. I don't know if you're lying or being lead on, but that is, simply, insane.

High schoolers do not sleep in the beds of people of the opposite gender, period. Why? Because parents would never allow it under their roof, so it's a lot of damn work for 'a little warmth'.

Hell, high schools don't usually even sleep together after sex, because, duh, they usually have to get home. It happens sometimes, I guess, but I'd wager that 75% of sexually active, not 18-yet-and-thus-can't-rent-hotel-rooms high-schoolers living under their parents roof have never literally 'slept with' someone, and most of the ones that did, did it on a trip of some sort where they were poorly chaperoned or not chaperoned at all, and all the rest either cleverly planned a getaway or accidently fell asleep and had to do some fast footwork in the morning.

I may be 27, but my brother's about to turn 21, and he thinks you're on crack too. Social norms don't change that fast, anyway, and parents haven't suddenly become okay with that.

Hell, adults who don't live together usually don't do that. When you already had plans to spend the night and something stopped the sex or you just weren't in the mood, or when you had to get up early and they were driving you somewhat, sure, but 'planning to sleep in the same bed without sex to be close' is not something that is commonly done until people move in together. Either the relationship includes sex, or it doesn't include sleeping in the same bed.

And, no one in their 'early to mid teens' had girls 'come back to their place'. You didn't even have a damn driver's license in your early to mid teens, much less a place you could take girls to to sleep in your bed.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't date much do you?

Re:Hang on...

[Trejkaz]

Because, clearly, only 19 year old guys ever sexually assault people.

You've hit the nail on the head. What if he were actually a 14 year old? Those are always innocent, after all.

Re:Hang on...

[Lectrik]

It is quite possible the teen snuck out without her parents knowledge- not hard to do, teens have lied about where they are going since the dawn of time. But even this is an assumption; she may just have terrible parents. And greedy ones too, apparently, given their choice of Myspace as a target.

From TFA:

In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19.

So, he was allowed to pick her up from school?
aside from her parents not keeping track of the kid, isn't the school partially responsible for letting Joe McRandom pick up a student?

now from the Myspace Terms & Conditions

Limitation on Liability. IN NO EVENT SHALL MYSPACE.COM BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF MYSPACE.COM HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, MYSPACE.COM'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID, IF ANY, BY YOU TO MYSPACE.COM FOR THE SERVICES DURING THE TERM OF MEMBERSHIP.

She agreed to this by having a myspace account. And while rape isn't good, it can't realy be more than indirect or consequential?

Can MySpace sues the parents for neglegence? Perhaps to the tune of.... THIRTY MILLION DOLLARS!

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

Well, sorry for lumping you into that group. I tend to jump the gun sometimes, because when I was that age, I promised myself that I wouldn't underestimate kids, like adults were doing to me at the time.

Absolutely no offense taken whatsoever. Do not worry about it in the slightest. I agree with the point of view you are supporting.

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

You guys dont need to nitpick over my choice of words, I will make it perfectly clear what I meant. I meant that there is a strong hope in the guy's mind that she is going to have sex with him. .... The boy was wrong to expect sex when they went back to his place.

Okay, thanks for clarifying, I was hoping this was what you meant, and I'm glad my interpretation was incorrect.

I hope my explanation showed that my interpretation was not unreasonable though, and given what was suggested, I hope my reaction was understandable. We are probably on a similar page regarding our views on the matter. Having said that, if my choice of words caused any offense, please accept my apologies.

Re:Hang on...

[RedQueen.exe]

The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy. Augh!!! Reword that immediately, its burning my eyes. Do you know where burden of proof lies? It lies on the one making the assertion. You are not supposed to assume something until evidence to the contrary, you are supposed to assume something given evidence, and what the parent poster said was that we cannot assume it was bad parenting given the small amount of details that we were given. I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going. So you would have no problem with telling them when you were 14 that you were going to go have dinner and a movie with a 19 year old young man? I am quite sure it was bad parenting that got her in that situation, but I would never be so silly as to assert it given so few details. What I do think is evidence of their bad parenting is that they somehow expect that MySpace was responsible for their daughter going to dinner and a movie with a 19 year old and then going to his apartment afterwards of her own free will and long after MySpace was out of the picture.

Re:Hang on...

[RedQueen.exe]

The fact that teens sneak out does not mean that the parents aren't lousy.

Augh!!!!! Reword that immediately, its burning my eyes. Do you know where burden of proof lies? It lies on the one making the assertion. You are not supposed to assume something until evidence to the contrary, you are supposed to assume something given evidence, and what the parent poster said was that we cannot assume it was bad parenting given the small amount of details that we were given.

I didn't sneak out, because I knew I could go to my parents and tell them exactly where I was going.

So you would have no problem with telling them when you were 14 that you were going to go have dinner and a movie with a 19 year old young man?

I am quite sure it was bad parenting that got her in that situation, but I would never be so silly as to assert it given so few details. What I do think is evidence of their bad parenting is that they somehow expect that MySpace was responsible for their daughter going to dinner and a movie with a 19 year old and then going to his apartment afterwards of her own free will and long after MySpace was out of the picture...

Re:Hang on...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Whooooah there. Wait just one damn minute. You surely can't mean what I think you mean, do you? Please tell me I've misunderstood what you've said.

Okay, hows this: if I'm on a date and the girl I'm with asks me to come up with her, I expect there's a good chance she'll screw my brains out. Better?

Re:Hang on...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

That's the most politically incorrect post in this thread so far.

No it isn't. It's reality - if I'm wining and dining someone who just wants a free meal, then I'm being used. Try and talk your way out of that.

Re:Hang on...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

What if he were actually a 14 year old? Those are always innocent, after all.

Unless they're boys, because boys are evil tools of the devil.

/still a tool of the devil
//want to see my tool?

Re:Hang on...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Make the first IRL meeting be with both sets of parents involved, like any other meeting of two kids outside of school will be.

Maybe if you're 10. Certainly not after 13-14.

Re:Hang on...

[aberrantvirtue]

Do you ask every single person who you go out with, before you've bought them dinner, whether or not they're going to have sex with you afterwards? If not, then you have no cause for complaint about being misled if you take someone out and then they go home without having sex with you. (And let's not even talk about how women get used in this situation, or we could be here for days.)

Re:Hang on...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Do you ask every single person who you go out with, before you've bought them dinner, whether or not they're going to have sex with you afterwards?

You're a dense one. Can you really not tell the difference between someone going on a date to see if they like that person and someone going on a date to get a free meal?

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Sorry, but you're wrong. A good parent is one that raise a good kid. If you end up with a bad kid, you are a bad parent.

If you instill proper values in your children, they will listen to their conscience. If you don't, they'll ignore it (or worse, won't have one).

Your statement about jail is irrelevent; some are in there wrongly (because the state has not an intrest in the trust, but in blaming someone), some are in there for things which should not be crimes (smoking pot, for example) and the others are there because they belong there; had their parents taught them better values, they wouldn't be there.

Re:Hang on...

[Random Destruction]

Being fat isn't genetic either; parents teach thier poor habits to their children, who go on to teach them to thier children.

So its a fact then? I'm sure everyone agrees with you.

there is strong evidence from both human and animal studies indicating that genes also contribute to the development of obesity.

University of Washington Centre for Genomics

Genetics is a major determinant of obesity, however, little is known about specific genes that contribute to obesity

Boston University Medical Centre

If you still need more, check here.

Re:Hang on...

[Random Destruction]

If he sneaks out its because he doesn't feel like he can do things he should ligitimately be allowed to do, and that you don't trust him.

Really? I snuck out becuase I wanted to do things I shouldn't have been allowed to do. Sounds like you had hella sterile life if you only ever did things parents [should have] let you do.

Re:Hang on...

[plague3106]

Really? I snuck out becuase I wanted to do things I shouldn't have been allowed to do.

I guess it depends on what it was that you snuck out to do. Its very easy to claim that you did something you shouldn't have without saying what it was.

Sounds like you had hella sterile life if you only ever did things parents [should have] let you do.

Not at all; my parents gave me a good deal of responsiblity, and gave more as I got older. I didn't plenty of things they'd rather I didn't, but they didn't stop me from them either.

Re:Hang on...

[aberrantvirtue]

My point was that neither of those is a guarantee of sex. And that to presume otherwise is at best, very rude. (It's slashdot, I don't know what I was thinking trying to make such a point.)

Re:Hang on...

[955301]

Once again I disagree, and your example reaks of extremes. Since you put it as an absolute a single counter-example is all I need, correct. I have an old friend from high school, Derek. He and I hung out with a third guy, Rick. Rick smoked pot, lived in an abandoned apartment, skipped school, got abyssmal grades, etc. Derek has two great parents and I spent a lot of time at his house because my parents were not there. In my book, his parents were great. They were home all the time, engaged in our conversations, gave him room to grow but didn't let him get carried away. My parents were rarely home or available - they had to work pretty hard. So by your example, Derek should have shunned Rick, while I may or may not have. This is exactly opposite to what happened. Derek started up on drugs, blew his time gaming and since then made a career out of cheerleader training. He drank his parents alcohol, stole money from them, and set of fireworks in their house, etc. I paid off all my parents debts and made it so they don't have to work as hard.

The point is, as a parent, your values may or may not stick depending on the myriad of other things going on in the kids life. This makes training them something short of an absolute transfer.

Re:Hang on...

[Random Destruction]

As inviting as it is to prove my point by giving a long list of things I did that I shouldn't have, I'm going to have to leave you without. I don't really want to attach such a list to myself, and posting as an AC would be pretty obvious at this point :)

Re:Hang on...

[xappax]

I suppose it's a waste of time to point it out on such a macho-oriented forum, but women very rarely make false accusations of rape, and really, why would they? The drama, intense fights, secondary accusations, destroyed relationships, and hatred directed at a person who claims to have been raped is very real, and very shitty to go through. And it happens the moment you make the accusation, whether or not it's true. The belief that women accuse men of rape as revenge or to protect their own reputations is ridiculous considering the trauma that such a false accusation would cause the woman.

The fallout of admitting you were raped is so stigmatized that many women who actually have been sexually assaulted remain silent about it for their whole lives.

Re:Hang on...

[Schwartzboy]

I've had my rear legitimately handed to me enough times in online discussions by people who have turned out to be twelve to know not to underestimate the young ones

...frickin' perv, you are. Unless you're 13. Got a credit card number to prove that, bub?

Re:Hang on...

[OverflowingBitBucket]

"had my rear legitimately handed to me"

I do not think that phrase means what you think it means. :P

Re:Hang on...

[drakaan]

I'll be damned...actual proof that some people only read the first sentence of a post...

HINT: It's difficult to start an argument with someone you largely agree with.

EXTRA HINT: Scroll up to the second sentence of the post you replied to and read it.

Re:Hang on...

[libcoder]

Doesn't mattter. If she is 14 and he is 19, that would still be statutory rape. She is not, I believe, legally able to consent to sex. I could be wrong depending on state law, that's how it is in my state, I didn't do the research. Anyway, this type of mentally lead to a lot of unprosecuted rape in the past. I think that is altogether unfair. Clearly, the parents are the ones beyond the greedy law suit and clearly this is rape no matter how little merit the lawsuit has.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God someone else noticed that. Mod parent up please.

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[xarak]

Can I sue Victorias Secrets for making panties that encourage sexual arousal and thereby rape too?

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!?!?!

[damburger]

I mean, isn't ANYTHING justified if it protects children from the sexual predators we all know run the internets?

Surely websites should not be allowed to let people communicate anonymously, because these people might be pedophiles! Anonymity only helps criminals and perverts!

Nothing is more important than making things safe for kids. Everyone who disagrees probably has kiddie porn on their harddrive.

Do YOU disagree? hmmm?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Why isn't anybody going after the mother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this child negligence? The mother is the one at fault here letting her daughter do anything she wants, traveling off with people who she's never met? Of course the mother will say, I didn't know what she was doing. And I'd like to be able to sue that stupid bitch. Because knowing what your children are doing is what being a parent is all about, and she failed miserably.

Daily Show Perfect Quote

[emkman]

Dmitri Martin on the Daily Show segment about MySpace and Social Networking sites:
"On the downside they're loaded with sexual predators. On the upside they're loaded with sexual prey."

Informed consent

[TheConfusedOne]

At the age of 14 it is really hard for most kids to really understand the consequences of a sexual relationship. Now, maybe some few kids can actually comprehend this and thus provide a meaningful consent, but it's very few and there's no good test we can give them to screen the mature from the immature. So, a "magical age" was created where it was decided that most people would in fact be able to understand complex relationships. Yes, some people over this age don't really comprehend the issue, but the line had to be drawn somewhere.

Re:Informed consent

[Mr2001]

So, a "magical age" was created where it was decided that most people would in fact be able to understand complex relationships. Yes, some people over this age don't really comprehend the issue, but the line had to be drawn somewhere.

Congratulations, you missed the GP's point completely. This is what he wrote (emphasis added):

"I can understand there needing to be a set agelevel as far as the law goes, because measuring maturity-level is pretty much impossible.. But we don't *need* to be as stupid when it comes what we deem moral."

Re:Informed consent

[mirio]

Yes, some people over this age don't really comprehend the issue, but the line had to be drawn somewhere.

Exactly..the line was drawn somewhere and most people admit it is arbitrary, yet people like my friend who was 20 and had sex with a 17-year old is a Registered Sex Offender (TM) for committing misdemeanor statutory rape. Nevermind the fact that he's now been married to the girl for 4 years and they now have a little one year old daughter.

The girl objected to his prosecution that was sought by her mother. She refused to testify against him at trial and spent a week in jail and paid court fines for contempt. She turned 18 just a few months after the trial and once she did she left her mother to live with the family of her then boyfriend and has been with him ever since.

Our church has a TaeKwan Do ministry (don't ask) and my friend was an instructor. He was always there with a room full of parents and other instructors and students. One of the parents found out he was a 'sex offender' and reported him to the police, saying that it didn't 'look right' that he was instructing martial arts (some of the students were teen). Due to Georgia's get-tough-on-sex crimes laws he was arrested with only the complain. In Georgia, sex offenders suspected of violating sex crimed laws are not granted bail. They are held until a finding of fact hearing be the court (IANAL but this is what his attorney called it). In his case the court date was a month away and he had a one week old baby at home. The attorney petitioned the judge for a special hearing due to his circumstances (the baby) and the judge released him on a signature bond. This was very unusual as most judges won't do that. At the final hearing the judge ruled that he did not violate any statues (remember: he's a sex offender, not on parole!) and that the claims were without merit. The judge also admonished the legislature for creating vague rules that are impossible to implement and are open to any number of interpretations.

The puritanical nature of our laws is absolutely ridiculous and is in my opinion catering to the right-wing fundamentalists in the republican party. I am a conservative Christian and former republican, by the way. I left the party when I decided the republicans could no longer perform simple addition and subtraction (read: balance a budget) and when they handed defeat to terrorists by encouraging the public to actually be afraid of them (the terrorists' stated purpose).

Re:Informed consent

[JimBobJoe]

At the age of 14 it is really hard for most kids to really understand the consequences of a sexual relationship.

According to this article by the age of 15 about 25% of people will have had sex. (It's the nifty table down the page a bit.)

Whether they're ready for it or not doesn't seem to matter if 1 out of 4 of em are doing it.

In my mind it becomes difficult to say why a 14 year old should only be making bad choices with other 14 year olds, or would they be better of with people of other age ranges.

Re:Informed consent

[inKubus]

My great grandmother married my great grandfather when she was 14 and he was 20 and were married for over 60 years (until he passed).

I know for a fact that when I was 14, I wanted to bang everything in sight. But all the girls were way more mature than me (because they mature sooner) and they all wanted someone with the more adult behavior. I don't have enough fingers to count all the relationships that went on at my high school that would probably be considered illegal today. Looking back, it was probably pretty stupid but kids are having sex, and girls are going to get whatever they want, there's always some doofus with a Camaro....

Regardless of what happened, the law is the law. If you are 18 or 19 or 20 and messing around with younger girls, you'd better be careful and know how old they really are. You'd better not piss them off and you'd better not piss their parents off. Parental consent is the most important thing. Just be a good person. If you're older than that, you're being stupid because the college girls are much more classy and experienced..

I always say, half your age plus 7 is the ideal and probably should be the law, even after the age of majority. So I'm 26, 26/2=13+7=20.

When I'm 40, 40/2=20+7=27

etc.

Don't mess around outside the formula, it's not worth it.

A Nanny State vs Consumer Protection

[deltacephei]

I would venture a guess that daughter lied to the mother and indicated that the boy was a member of her school or something similar. Teenagers the world over are quite adept at modifying the truth either directly, or by omission of relevant facts. The daughter probably really didn't have any idea that this was a risky idea; her judgment, or lack thereof, is not inconsistent with her age.

Unfortunately this case is reminiscent of dating website stories. Talk to any veteran of find_your_soulmate_today.com and you'll hear multiple stories of how absolutely perfect everything seemed with match #92 until those small details of "i'm still angry at my parents, and oh yeah, I'm 48" or "yeah, it was just one felony and I got a bad judge." We evolved with social networks and we still need them. Boys and girls with exploding hormones are much more likely to keep it under control when there is some modicum of social connection.

Aside from the stupidity of the entire debacle is the base notion of requiring service providers of any stripe to perform nanny duties. I don't think we really want this do we? I don't think we really want providers of goods and services to raise their prices to cover setting up huge databases complete with incorrect activitiy monitoring. In a free market system we don't want companies to accept lower profits because of the implicit additional costs that such tracking and monitoring would incur. Consumer protection groups however have brought about safer cars, safer tools, better appliances. Hence I can't completely argue that MySpace should abstain from any responsibility. The question is where to draw the line.

Other sticky areas: people with pools can be sued if someone drowns after sneaking in, correct? Yet what about walking around a golf course and getting blinded by a stray ball? In this case it is the walker's fault to the best of my knowledge, and neither the golfer nor the course owner is liable. What about gun manufacturers? Accidental deaths happen routinely and we do not allow parents to sue gun companies for the deaths of their children.

MySpace should do more to seek out predators and kick them off, but a $30M lawsuit is not the way to bring this change. A nanny state degrades freedom, not to mention interfering with the natural laws of Darwin.

It's about time....

[ShyGuy91284]

I'm not saying this persons motives are correct. If anything, she's probably being a pawn in her parents plans to live doing nothing for the rest of their life. But it is true myspace doesn't do enough to prevent minors from going on the site. Cases of sexual assault/contact at an unlawful age like this have probably happened at least several dozen times over myspace. And I've always seen mySpace as something for middle schoolers since I knew a girl who was in middle school who was rather obsessed with it..... But yeah, I do agree they need stronger policies to prevent minors from registering somehow, because this girl has proven that there are a fair number of young girls out there that are too stupid not to get themselves into trouble.

So why were they only sued in America?

[giafly]

• If McDonalds coffee was really dangerous, they'd have been sued in every country around the World. Were they? Didn't think so.
• And if "Third degree burns occur at this temperature in just two to seven seconds" how ever did other customers drink this coffee without burning their mouths and throats and requiring skin grafts?

Damn. You're a troll aren't you? D'Oh!

Re:So why were they only sued in America?

[The Darkness]

* If McDonalds coffee was really dangerous, they'd have been sued in every country around the World. Were they? Didn't think so.
* And if "Third degree burns occur at this temperature in just two to seven seconds" how ever did other customers drink this coffee without burning their mouths and throats and requiring skin grafts?

Damn. You're a troll aren't you? D'Oh!

No. The GP isn't a troll and a small amount of research on your part would have shown as much.

Do a google search and you'll find the details of the case.

Personally, I have let McDonald's coffee cool off for 10-20 minutes or put cooler things (like cream) in it to bring it to a drinkable temperature. Also keep in mind that she had all of the coffee spill at once on her lap. Someone drinking it from the cup will have control over how they consume it by sipping or blowing on it. If they just went and dumped the whole damn cup down their throats then they would get burns.

Re:Well they have a small paragraph in the terms..

[mrscorpio]

Bingo. It's just like grocery stores saying they're not responsible for cart damage to your car (they are) or the bowling alley not being responsible for damage to your ball (they are, within reason). Disclaimers like these are an attempt to prevent frivilous lawsuits. As seen by this article, it doesn't always work.

Only in America...

[Tom]

I predict there'll be a new mandatory button on most community sites soon:

"I acknowledge that I am old enough to not wear diapers anymore and that I can take responsibility for my own actions and stupidity. [Agree / Enter] - [No / Leave]"

Re:The Macdonalds 3rd-degree burn case had merit.

[1u3hr]

people would get mad and throw it at the cashiers if it was colder.

This seems a little unlikely, if you'll excuse my saying so. 1) if customers threw a cup of hot coffee at a cashier, they'd have scalded them, and charged with assault, even if it wasn't quite the 180F of the famous case. 2) Evidence in the case showed that McDonald's coffee was served much hotter than other restaurants.

I don't know why anyone would take McDonald's coffee home, or to their office, to drink later. It's crap compared with any instant, let alone brewed coffee, you can make yourself if you can boil water. Even 7-Eleven coffee is cheaper and less nasty if you're desperate for a caffeine hit.

She needs to be protected from the greedy adults

[wannabgeek]

I think the girl needs protection more from the greedy parents and the ambulance chaser more than strangers. At 14, they are already making a Monica Lewinsky out of her - teaching her how to exploit sexual incidents for money

Norway, be afraid, be very afraid!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm gonna sue the government in Norway for tons of money, cause that's where I found one of my ex girlfriends, which turned out to be crazy as hell!

*soon to be rich f**k*

F Word

[Tom]

Actually, I was tempted to tell the spoiled brat "fuck you", but I fear she'd sue me for sexual harassment if I did.

The cost of doing business

[nurb432]

Anytime you have a business, expect to have people sue you just to try to make a buck. Even when you are in the right, it gets expensive to keep going to court all the time.

Too bad you cant countersue to get your expenses back from stupid stuff like this.

suit ?

[chrisranjana.com]

"He was arrested May 19." Ain't that Justice done ? I mean ""None of this has to be true," the lawsuit said" Had the above been true would the assault never have occured ? Nice mother Nice Daughter !

Wow

[spx]

Thats like the easiest thing to say here. Seems like people are lying all around. I cant really say that I am surprised, its been sometime since I have read about some perv online taking advantage of someone, but this case is all fubar. Honestly, WOW! Where was the mother? Right now, I am with child, my second, so come Oct. I will have one 4 year old son, and one newborn little girl. Where was this girls mother, or father for that matter? In this household, the parents are both geeks, maybe that will help to make sure our children will not have something like this happen to them. We will monitor their every move online *muhaha* Seriously though, Myspace isnt at fault, thats just like saying O Snap! I logged onto YIM and some perv messaged me, and now hes stalking me b/c I was stupid enough to give him my phone/address/etc. I have yet to see the word NAIVE come into play. Doesn't anyone here remember being 14, you might have been mature, but not about everything. I guess I will be the first to admit such a fault. When I was 14, I had a curfew, what about this girl....maybe she met him during daylight hours, but seriously, you cant be that NAIVE to not tell when someone is *tons* older than you. Im really upset when I see shit like this go down, where are the parents, Im not that old as it is, so I cant say my time was 'back in the day', but DAMN, back in my day, parents were abit more responsible for their children. We had curfews, and we had that thing that says 'You tell me where you are going AT ALL TIMES', maybe this girls mother was a crackhead, that might explain abit, but 30mil isnt worth your own stupidity for doing something that dumb, your parents neglect since they *seem* to know nothing about whats going on in your life until something like this happens, and it sure isnt worth the news its getting. It bothers me even more than yet again, Americans are labeled as sue-aholics, this is the kinda shit that gets that fire going. I really seem to think this mother assumed the computer was a babysitter for her teen, and look how it turned out. Can you sue people for being stupid? I think we have an award for this mother...

Easy money

[Bizzeh]

she doesnt really care that its a 19 year old, she just sees it as easy money... this is how easy it is in todays americanised "sue everyone for looking at you funny" culture

When I was a kid...

[fwice]

...we had to hang out in AOL Chat Rooms in order to have older guys try to pick us up...

and this was on dial up!

shes gonna need it

[Sathias]

Good luck against Rupert Murdochs lawyers

The Death of Common Sense

[jense]

Common Sense lived a long life but died in the United States from heart failure just after the dawn of the new millenium. No one really knows how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools, hospitals, homes and factories, and helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness. For decades, petty rules, silly laws, and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, and that life isn't always fair. Common Sense lived by simple credos: sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and winning isn't everything (it's okay to come in second). Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, a teen suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parent when a female student was pregnant or wanted an abortion. Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from the Boy Scouts to professional sports. Finally, when a woman, too stupid to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, was awarded a huge settlement, Common Sense threw in the towel. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. Note: This piece was first published March 15, 1998 in the Indianpolis Star.

Owned

[CodemasterMM]

Finally, someone takes on MySpace. MySpace is the sesspool of human stupidity; honestly. I'm glad someone is attempting to take them down.

Re:Owned

[Durinthal]

Unfortunately, the money's staying in that pool and will likely only be used to further the stupidity. On a serious note.. are there any judges out there that throw out every frivolous lawsuit that comes before them? I'd like to think that there's at least a modicum of intelligence and wisdom in the system.

Re:Owned

[nate nice]

Not to mention it ties up a busy court system and costs us, the tax payers, lots and lots of money that could be spent elsewhere.

The people suing in this case should be fined all government court expense (filing, hearings, etc) + 20%. We should start profiting from this.

Re:Owned

[Anonymous Coward]

MySpace is the sesspool of human stupidity; honestly.

I know, between my 4 Myspace accounts, I get all sorts of trash contacting me there. And though I'm a 30-something living in my mom's basement, the messages to my account that I set up as a 14 year old girl are the most interesting.

WAAH!

[v1]

Waaah, the world didn't protect me, it's the world's fault! I shouldn't be forced to use common sense, the world must protect me! I deserve MONEY from everyone because the world failed to protect me from my ignorance and lack of good judgement!

Morons.

I'm not saying she deserved what she got, but it's sure a lot more challenging to pity someone that behaves like that. No pity from me.

Re:WAAH!

[kthejoker]

No, no, you *are* saying she deserved what she got. And she did. This is a scenario where the risks clearly outweigh the benefits, because the risks in this case *included* the very likely chance of rape and/or death. If she were abducted at the mall and raped at knifepoint, then she wouldn't deserve it, because "going to the mall" doesn't generally have very risky outcomes. But "meeting online strangers" does, and yes, she deserved it, 14 or not.

In this world, there are people who make stupid decisions who are not necessarily stupid people. You and I make them all the time, and if something bad comes our way because of them, then we deserve it. It's part of the human condition. Why is everyone so afraid to say somebody deserved something bad? She may be *less* deserving than an older girl because she is just 14 and (clearly very very) naive, but ultimately, she deserved it. Again, this isn't just for this specific scenario - if you are aware of the risks of a situation, and choose to engage in it anyway, you deserve whatever happens to you.

Re:WAAH!

[ultranova]

No, no, you *are* saying she deserved what she got. And she did. This is a scenario where the risks clearly outweigh the benefits, because the risks in this case *included* the very likely chance of rape and/or death.

No she didn't, any more than a smoker deserves a horrible death from lung cancer or the students in China deserved to be massacred. That an action has a likely nasty consequence in no way means that the consequence is deserved.

Otherwise we'll end up with such absurdities as "The rescue workers who died trying to save the victims of 9/11 deserved to die since they risked their lives knowingly".

Besides, if the girl deserved what she got (assuming she was actually raped or otherwise harmed; the article doesn't tell, since "sexual assault" could be referring to statutory, rather than actual, rape), then clearly the man is blameless - surely giving someone something they deserve is simply meting out justice, and can be called vigilantism at worst, no ? And similarly, getting mugged in a back alley makes the mugger blameless, since you clearly deserved to be mugged since you knew - or should have known - that back alleys aren't safe. And so on.

Again, this isn't just for this specific scenario - if you are aware of the risks of a situation, and choose to engage in it anyway, you deserve whatever happens to you.

Yep, those rescue workers clearly got what they deserved. And since the passengers of the planes were aware that the planes may be captured and the captors may kill them, they deserved to die as well. As does every police officer who gets shot, every ambulance driver who dies in an accident - and every other driver as well, for that matter - and don't get me started on those dead soldiers in Iraq, every one of them got what was coming to him. Oh, and Galileo clearly deserved to be punished by catholic church.

I really suggest that you think long and hard the difference between "consequences" and "deserved consequences". The qualifier "deserved" implies justice, while the base concept of "consequences" does not imply any such thing. There is nothing just about being horribly punished for stupidity and even less so about being punished for bravery. The world isn't inherently just; please stop trying to tell yourself it is. Instead, if you find this state of affairs unbearable, do something - other than self-deception - about it.

A good starting point would be to ditch the Just World hypothesis which you seem to have, since it is incorrect, and clinging to it has the very likely consequence of further punishing the already unjustly suffering victims, making the world even more unjust.

Re:WAAH!

[kthejoker]

To be clear, I don't consider "deserving" something implies justice - so your entire post is rendered moot by semantics.

Perhaps we should come up with a better word than "deserved" to describe this and other scenarios.

If you are a rescue worker, and you enter a burning building, and you die as a result of your efforts to rescue others, you went up against some risks and poor odds and you lost.

What we are really talking about is expectations and the fulfillment of those expectations - not the expectations of the actor, but society's expectations. If a heavy smoker dies of lung cancer, no one is really *surprised* by this. Why? It's not because they "deserved" it in some great karmic sense, but certainly that was a predictable expectation. To suggest otherwise would fly in the face of science and common sense.

So when I say "deserved" it, I don't mean it in the same way as "she was asking for it" rape theories, but I do mean that we as a society are not surprised by the outcome of such risky behavior.

I wrote that piece using deserved as a proxy for "reasonably expected" - which was to highlight the fact that this girl acted unreasonably (just as heavy smokers and rescue workers do - in the latter's case, to their credit.) To read anything more into it than that is wrong, though I take the blame for that.

Remember this case from earlier this week?

[guidryp]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060619/ap_on_re_mi_ea /myspace_mideast_5

Teach your kids about the dangers of meeting strangers... and how they are magnified tenfold online.

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[NevarMore]

"I didn't know Myspace was a pre-requisite for the exchange of emails and phone calls, nor that the going rate for "facilitating" rape was thirty fucking million dollars."

Most appropriate use of 'fucking' as an adjective EVER.

Also, I'd wager that there are some rich perverts that would happily pay thirty fucking million dollars for a go with a 14 year old.

So if she was raped by a 15 yo, it's cool, right?

[gelfling]

Because it seems to be a suit that Myspace has men who are older than they say they are, not that they are predators and such. Here's a tip guys - if you just rape women your own age, according to the Houston soccermom league is fine.

Re:the dumb do get the money...

[surprise_audit]

See now the one where a guy that broke into a house, managed to lock himself in the garage and had to spend two weeks subsisting on dog food and a couple of cans of fizzy drinks because the owners were on holiday and then sued that family for a lot of money

Is that seriously a real case??

1) how was he *not* able to break back out in two weeks?? Was he too stupid to get the outer door open??

2) I thought criminals were not allowed to profit from their crimes?? As a burglar, he's illegally on the premises and by filing a lawsuit freely admits that fact. Winning damages would be profiting from the burglary...

But then, IANAL, and I have no clue... :)

Re:The Macdonalds 3rd-degree burn case had merit.

[geminidomino]

I don't know why anyone would take McDonald's coffee home, or to their office, to drink later.

It tasted better when it was served hotter than piss.

Straight from the TOS. I hope Myspace sues her.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

I think its fair that Myspace sue her and her family back for 300 million dollars for...

Straight from the MYspace Terms of Service...

"Please choose carefully the information you post on MySpace.com and that you provide to other Users."

Choose being the key word here. She chose to contact people with her personal information, thus putting herself at risk...

"Your MySpace.com profile may not include the following items: telephone numbers, street addresses, last names"

If her profile can not contain any personal contact info as per the rules, she then chose (theres that word again) to contact this 19 year old.

Myspace is not at fault for anything.

If anything, this 14 year old is a whore.

Case and point.

Re:Straight from the TOS. I hope Myspace sues her.

[Bill Kilgore]

Myspace has nothing to do with the sexual assault. It's just a typical blood-sucking leech lawyer who identified a way to profit from a corp. with a lot of money on hand. It's what they do.

It should be a no-brainer that myspace will settle for a much smaller amount. If they do have a brain, they'll fight it to the Supreme Court and countersue. There's a lot more blood-sucking leech lawyers out there.

Even more fun would be to just blow it up. Myspace could say "OK, we've had fun, but now that the US 'Justice' system is on our backs, we just don't need it anymore. Goodbye." Shutdown the servers, sell, them, and get out of town. Then wait for bids for the data.

Re:Straight from the TOS. I hope Myspace sues her.

[hkb]

Err, you mean "case IN point". Shouldn't use words and phrases you can't utilize correctly.

Re:Straight from the TOS. I hope Myspace sues her.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

here's a phrase.. BLOW ME...

i'm working unglodly ours to meet a dealine!@#$!@$%!$%!

You what

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the person that is taking legal action would like to clarify exactly how one would verify the identity of any Joe Bloggs that wants to use a website. Perhaps with the 30m they won't win they can set up a global identity management service that doesn't exist, and isn't in danger of existing due to the impracticalities involved.

To hell in a handbasket

[Anonymous Coward]

How can a 14yr old plead stupid and then have the gonads to sue? You're either mentally incompetent on both accounts or neither.

On a similar note ... What the hell has happened to personal and parental responsibility in the US? We transformed from a country made up of hardworking, clearminded, responsible citizens to nothing more than lazy, incompetent, litigous ones. We'd rather sit on our collective asses and "earn" income by suing our neighbor than taking responsibility for our (and I mean parents, too) actions.

Wow

[boxxa]

Tell her to stop friend whoring her self and stop adding random people and they wont be able to see her private profile becuase she is young. Countersuit for stupidity

Cynical-vision.. ACTIVATE!

[Churla]

I read the artice.. here's what I see....

"I hooked up on MySpace and it went bad, bad enough my parents found out. The guys in jail but I'm still they're blaming me for putting up a MySpace page looking for hookups,who can I blame? Oh yeah. MySpace did it by not stopping the guy I e-mailed. We should also sue MicroSoft for not predator filtering e-mail in outlook"

Or...

"Our daughter is no slut. There's no way that unless someone or something else facilitated it she would never get in a situation like that. Where is she now? She was really upset so she's spending the night at her friends.. um.. Marsha or somethings like that's house. We can't get a quote for you right now from her because she said Marsha's phone was out..."

Maybe I'm wrong, I'll admit that. But if I were betting money I know where it would be. Yes, the guy is a creep and criminal for doing this, but the parents should have been aware of the childs surfing habits. There is no excuse now a days and enough software that you could both track and control a browser. At the very least they should have known about her MySpace site, and her e-mail.

Re:Cynical-vision.. ACTIVATE!

[Churla]

P.S. - You let your 14 year old daughter go out on a date.. unsupervised.. one-on-one.. with a boy.. genius.

Don't date until your 16

[mulhollandj]

Mormons are taught not to date until they are 16 if they follow that wise council they avoid a lot of these problems.

Age of consent...

[msauve]

At the age of 14 it is really hard for most kids to really understand the consequences of a sexual relationship. Now, maybe some few kids can actually comprehend this and thus provide a meaningful consent, but it's very few and there's no good test we can give them to screen the mature from the immature.

And your support for that statement is....what?

Historically, the age of reason (aka "age of accountability") has been understood to be somewhere in the 7-13 year old range. The Roman Catholic church believes that at age 7 persons may make informed decisions regarding religion which have eternal implications in their faith. Surely, making a decision which can send you to hell for eternity is of greater consequence than simply deciding whether to have sex? (although I guess they believe that can do the same)

Fortunately, there's one easily identifiable trait which humans have which can tell us when they're ready for sexual activity, and that indicator has been refined and validated over millions of years - it's the age people are sufficiently responsible to have children and provide the parenting required for propagating genes. We call it puberty. Is it correct in all individual cases? No, but in enough that we're still here as a species.

Who are you to claim that someone who is 14 can't make an informed decision regarding sex, let alone make that claim for "most kids?"

Re:Age of consent...

[Anonymous Coward]

And your support for that statement is....what?

Historically, the age of reason (aka "age of accountability") has been understood to be somewhere in the 7-13 year old range. The Roman Catholic church believes that at age 7 persons may make informed decisions regarding religion which have eternal implications in their faith.

OMFG! That explains a great deal, actually. I guess all those priests, bishops, and cardinals got "informed consent" from those kiddies they banged. That explains why the last pope felt so justified in shuffling all those pedaphiles around to new parishes. Not only could he keep the "good" name of his church clean, he could provide his clergy with new meat, I mean, new youngsters who could give their own "informed consent." It probably explains why the current pope was elected, after having been put in charge of said pedophile shuffling by his predicessor.

Informed consent at 7? Not on sexual matters, and certainly not on spiritual matters or matters of faith. Unless you consider indoctrination, brainwashing, and not getting into trouble with mommy and daddy "informed consent."

Government has the best candy!

[Crash Culligan]

The sad thing is that the majority of sexual harassments are not done by strangers, but by relatives and family.

Did anyone else get the same incredibly evil "we must think of the children!" flash of insight that I did?

Since a majority of sexual harassments are done by family and relatives, we must break up all families to eliminate all possibility of sexual harassment. Total segregation. Because we must, y'know, think of the children.

I don't know . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

we go out for coffee, things go well, we start dating, have dinner a few times, then one day we get into an argument and she punches me in the face

. . . but can you tell me how I can meet this girl?

Re:So, 14yo sex assault victim="slutty little moro

[Anonymous Coward]

You know she had it coming!

warnings from the FRONT PAGE of myspace

[Anonymous Coward]

These may have been slightly modified since getting sued, but I remember being forced to agree to THIS before logging in the first time.

FOR TEENS
MySpace makes it easy to express yourself, connect with friends and make new ones, but please remember that what you post publicly could embarrass you or expose you to danger. Here are some common sense guidelines that you should follow when using MySpace:

Don't forget that your profile and MySpace forums are public spaces. Don't post anything you wouldn't want the world to know (e.g., your phone number, address, IM screens name, or specific whereabouts). Avoid posting anything that would make it easy for a stranger to find you, such as where you hang out every day after school.
People aren't always who they say they are. Be careful about adding strangers to your friends list. It's fun to connect with new MySpace friends from all over the world, but avoid meeting people in person whom you do not fully know. If you must meet someone, do it in a public place and bring a friend or trusted adult.
Harassment, hate speech and inappropriate content should be reported. If you feel someone's behavior is inappropriate, react. Talk with a trusted adult, or report it to MySpace or the authorities.
Don't post anything that would embarrass you later. Think twice before posting a photo or info you wouldn't want your parents or boss to see!
Don't mislead people into thinking that you're older or younger. If you lie about your age, MySpace will delete your profile.
To learn more please visit these other resources:

Netsmartz.org
SafeTeens.com
WebWiseKids.org

FOR PARENTS
For teens, MySpace is a popular online hangout because the site makes it easy for them to express themselves and keep in touch with their friends.

As a parent, please consider the following guidelines to help your children make safe decisions about using online communities.

Talk to your kids about why they use MySpace, how they communicate with others and how they represent themselves on MySpace.
Kids shouldn't lie about how old they are. MySpace members must be 14 years of age or older. We take extra precautions to protect our younger members and we are not able to do so if they do not identify themselves as such. MySpace will delete users whom we find to be younger than 14, or those misrepresenting their age.
MySpace is a public space. Members shouldn't post anything they wouldn't want the world to know (e.g., phone number, address, IM screen name, or specific whereabouts). Tell your children they should avoid posting anything that would make it easy for a stranger to find them, such as their local hangouts.
Remind them not to post anything that could embarrass them later or expose them to danger. Although MySpace is public, teens sometimes think that adults can't see what they post. Tell them that they shouldn't post photos or info they wouldn't want adults to see.
People aren't always who they say they are. Ask your children to be careful about adding strangers to their friends list. It's fun to connect with new MySpace friends from all over the world, but members should be cautious when communicating with people they don't know. They should talk to you if they want to meet an online friend in person, and if you think it's safe, any meeting should take place in public and with friends or a trusted adult present.
Harassment, hate speech and inappropriate content should be reported. If your kids encounter inappropriate behavior, let them know that they can let you know, or they should report it to MySpace or the authorities.
Click Here to remove your child's profile from MySpace

For more information on Monitoring software, please visit:

Software4parents.com
k9webprotection.com
To learn more please visit these other resources:

Netsmartz.org
WiredSafety.org
The Child Safety Network
GetNetWise.org
SafeTeens.com

MySpace Meet MyLawyer

[blueZhift]

I hate to be mean, but this just looks like another case of lawyers and distraught/greeding parents trying to cash in on a tragic situation. As irresponsible as people can be, I really do not believe that any reasonable person believes MySpace holds any responsibility for what happened. Ultimately, people are responsible for their own actions and deep inside everybody knows this to be true. Lawsuits like these are more about revenge and greed than they are about going after the people responsible for some wrong-doing.

Ummm... am I missing something?

[NokX]

if there's an area of town i'm not comfortable being around - i just don't go there. you don't like getting sexual emails from users on myspace? delete your account. why doesn't she take legal action against the 19 year old? isn't he the one causing the problems, not myspace? oh wait - he's not worth millions of dollars.

Re:Ummm... am I missing something?

[Thoroxian]

Not to mention that I am betting she added his profile as a friend, at which point even the "minor" accounts allow interactions iirc

Re:Ummm... am I missing something?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a college sophomore, I met a girl at one of our school's organization's events. We hit it off a little, and she seemed super interested in me...and then I found out she was 16...and I was 19 at the time. I started to get wary...and somehow things escalated such that about 2-3 weeks after knowing her (and meeting her only once in person then talking online), her mom dropped her off at my dorm to spend the night. And, as wary as I was, stuff almost happened, but I ended up being too freaked out that she was only 16 and drove her home.

Later, I remembered something she had mentioned in passing on an old blog post...something about her trial against [some guy's name] was starting and that it was super stressful on her and that he was a dirtbag and some of her friends would know what she was talking about...and that was it.

When I told my friend about it, he told me that I did the right thing...she was probably looking for a cash payout, and basically, I can't find any other reasonable explanation for it than that...

---
Anyways, I'm not saying this girl isn't the victim, there's no way for us to know that. I don't think everyone should jump on her and her parents for being so stupid, because it's possible that she has been the victim of a pretty violent crime. I'm just saying that people should use this /. article and my story as a reference that some things are better left alone.

From the article

[MImeKillEr]

"MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

To create an account, a MySpace user must list a name, an e-mail address, sex, country and date of birth.

"None of this has to be true," the lawsuit said.

Uh, what 14 year old has a DL or credit card? This would accomplish nothing. The adult predator who does have a CC and/or DL could simply input their info and still sign up as a minor, saying that they're verifying that they give permission for their child to have an account. This still wouldn't solve shiat.

The kid's parents are shirking responsibility for their inaction to supervise her and the stupidity of their daughter.

Granted she didn't deserve this, but c'mon. MySpace isn't responsible for making sure it's users aren't acting like dumbasses.

Also from the article:


"If you interact on MySpace, you are safe, but if a 13-year-old or 14-year-old goes out in person and meets someone she doesn't know, that is always an unsafe endeavor," Gelman said. "We need to teach our kids to be wary of strangers."


If your child doesn't know by kindergarten that strangers aren't to be trusted, you're asking for trouble. If your teen doesn't know by now, then thats one example of failure to adequately parent.


"We feel that 1 percent of that is the bare minimum that they should compensate the girl for their failure to protect her online when they knew sexual predators were on that site," he said.


They're going to have to PROVE that MySpace knew that there were predators on their site and failed to police its own system. Even if MySpace was used like this in the past, that doesn't go towards proving it. They're going to have a hard time with this point.

I live in Travis County, and can't wait to see how this unfolds. I hope it gets thrown out of court as its an obvious attempt to get a hand-out.

If they really want justice, sue the 19 yr old that molested her. Of course, they won't since he doesn't have $30M to pay them.

Re:From the article

[Cheeze]

What verifying age would do is basically make it 18+.

If anything, the parents should be the ones held responsible for their underage daughter's actions. They are, afterall, supposed to be legal guardians.

MySpace should countersue the parents.

HELP! HELP!

[crhylove]

I have a number on my curb and a guy used it to find my house and rape me! SHOOT THE GUY PAINTING CURBS, QUICK!

Literacy, that's what we need

[Anonymous Coward]

The words are "young" not "younge", "ridiculous" not "rediculous", "perpetrates" not "purpetrates"

There isn't enough time to analyze the non-grammar.

Re:the dumb do get the money...

[drb_chimaera]

Unfortunately apparantly not - although I've only found that out while trying to find the original article I saw it in a couple of years back.

The Stella awards is an entertaining place to waste a little time if you're bored at work - all sorts of ridiculous lawsuits

Precident

[omega9]

If this goes through, wins (whatevs, btw), and sets a precident, could I then sue Slashdot for not protecting me from their:

• Moronically placed hype
• Unread stories before posting
• Lack of any proper editing skills
• Post, re-post idiocy
• General retardedness

And worst of all:

• Not caring about any of the above

The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!

Why would I subscribe when chances are I already read the upcoming story three posts ago?

Re:Precident

[C_Kode]

I can tell you're not married. No woman would want such a whinny bitch. :P

bottom line

[matt328]

the site failed to protect her from a 19-year old she met through the site

Its not myspace's responsibility to protect anyone from anything, not even their own stupidity. I'm sure in the terms of use she agreed to, the girl absolved myspace of any wrong it might ever do. As much as I hate myspace I hate stupid people even more.

MySpace...

[infosec_spaz]

My Space is a complete cluster fuck, not only does it encourage 14 year olds to think they are webmasters, but it encourages kids to do this kind of shit, it should be shut down. Do I blame them for what happened? Hell NO!! However, someone up the line a ways, said it perfectly...the girl was 14 years old, and she has very limited world experience, PARENTS, PAY ATTENTION TO WTF YOUR KIDS ARE DOING ON THE FUCKING INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!

Sue the parents!

[p51d007]

She should sue her parents from not protecting her LOL. Any parent who allows their kid open access to the web is nuts! I don't care how "mature" a C-H-I-L-D is, any computer in my home would be in a common area, and the only way they would be allowed on any "social site" would be with me or my wife watching. There are too many perverts on the web who will attempt to take advantage of children. A responsible parent would have never allowed their children to meet someone on myspace anyway.

Re:How do we protect teens from their own ignoranc

[mzwaterski]

You can't just let kids make any mistake. To be extreme, if you let the kid make mistakes and he/she gets himself/herself killed, the lesson is over...forever. There is some line in-between little learning mistakes and getting yourself killed. Frankly, I think that becoming sexually involved with a 19 year old at age 14 is more towards the life-long-consequences/side-effects side of the issue. This isn't like a kid learning his lesson after getting caught stealing candy from a grocery store.

Responsibility

[AviLazar]

I seem to remember reading somewhere, or maybe it was a lecture from a law professor who said everyone is responsible for their own actions.

This idiot of a kid probably placed herself as an adult (listing her age as 18). Went and met some guy who she thought would be "sooo cool" to meet because he is older. Then got in way over her head.

That, or in related news 14 year old gets married to 19 year old who previously assaulted her.

Pot calls the kettle black

[buk110]

Wait, don't you need to be 18 to join myspace...so in this case, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

typical

[dbmasters]

don't make the kid hold any responsibility for her own actions, hell, she will only start driving next year, don't hold the parent responsible for not supervising her kid's use of the internet or social activities...do what every other red blooded American socialist, "I'm a victim" type liberal would do...SUE the bastards!

I can't wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

...for the next lawsuit where the local phone company is sued for not verifiying the age of everyone talking on the phone.
 
But seriously, I don't get these people, isn't the internet just a medium. If this lawsuit went forward what's to stop them (apart from reason, which seems to be lacking anyways) to launch a lawsuit against a paper company for not age verifying notes passed in school and than Bic pens for allowing the note to be written without age verification. And isn't it time we did something about the mail service that also doesn't verify age, they have left me wide open to be molested from what i thought was the safety of my mailbox.
 
now 14 year olds getting sexually assaulted is disturbing and the 19 year old should be punished, but my initial reaction here says that the parents of that 14 year old need a visit to social services to see if they even get to keep that child.
 
ok, i know, it's money. it's a hope to get rich scheme lawsuit that is all too common in the US. Deep down what I really don't get is why it isn't a crime to launch such lawsuits, the US is in deep need of disbarring about half of it's lawyers, a few judges and removal of the lottery...i mean lawsuit system.

Buda Man?

[Vexorian]

The subtle part about this thing is that the "Buda man" will not get jailed, just myspace will lost the $30 million.

The girl could have sued her mother for not protecting her. Of course, the mother doesn't have as much money as mySpace nor does the "Buda man"

What's Myspace supposed to do? Require users to take an personality test that could tell if they are sexual harassers before registering?

It is not like they could sue the phone company for letting a harasser contact her. Another "guilty" institutions are both email services for letting the harasser write mail to the teenager

But who will...

[WolfZombie]

"MySpace is more concerned about making money than protecting children online," said Adam Loewy

Think of the Children!
Seriously. I can't see where this case would hold water, unless MySpace.com says somewhere that all information displayed is verified and true. While they are at it, why don't they sue the car manufacturer and dealer for "they knew sexual predators were" using their vehicles.
It's time for the parents to take some responsibility here, and if they already did, then maybe it is just how their kid acts. The same would more than likely have happened at a Friday night football game if MySpace wasn't available.

Nice...

[dep01]

Nice. I bet this settles out of court for millions. FoxCorp can surely afford it. Stupid myspace... I hate that site.

It's the TRIAL LAWYERS.

[Anonymous Coward]

The parents may have gone to a lawyer, and the lawyer told them "you sue where the money is". The 19-year-old didn't have shit, but Myspace probably has some assets. So, it's the trial lawyer that win on this one. They will probably receive 85% of the payout.

The kid is still an idiot, and the parents, too. Natural Selection only works if the undesirables get taken out before they breed, and the girl will have to deal with rape issues for the rest of her life, possibly leading her to not breed.

Sorry

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Despite the seriousness of this situation, which many of you seem to disregard, the simple fact is that her parents should be sued for stupidity before anybody else.

America is becoming a country of "parents" that feel it is everyone else's problem to raise their kids. They expect teachers to be MORE to their children they they are, they expect media to protect their kids from "bad" things, they expect the Internet to police itself making it a safe haven for ignored children.

I would venture to guess that most people think 14 is old enough to have your own cellphone, computer, PDA, etc that doesn't require parental supervision to use. The problem is, the age of majority is 18 - 21, which means that as long as your parent have a legal responsibility to raise you, then you don't have the right to use these communication devices unsupervised.

Every parent that lets their under-age child use a cellphone, laptop, computer, or even a Nintendo DS with WiFi capabilities unsupervised is an out right IDIOT! Your are too dumb to have propagated, or too irresponsible to be allowed to take care of a child. I may be simplifying things greatly, but you are directly responsible for the safety of your child, and there are easy steps you can take to keep them safe, which most parents ignore or are blissfully unaware of.

When your child becomes the victim of assault, blame yourselves, not anybody else.

If you care about your child, get them those cellphones that can only call authorized numbers. Take their computer or laptop out of their rooms and tell them they can only use them in common areas of the home. You don't have to sit right beside your child as they browse the web, but they are less likely to get involved with someone online if there is threat you will walk into the room. Too often most parents let their children lock themselves in their bedroom with a high speed internet connection and instant messaging accounts. If your anal enough to worry about television content, get a TV with the V-Chip or invest in digital cable which allows you to block programs and/or entire channels (of course, I believe that being able to have open discussions about the content of television or video games is more important then wholesale censorship).

The bottom line is, you need to be involved in your child's life. I know its probably hard, but the culture of youth in America is one of pre-mature independence. Most kids feel they are entitled for parents to be out of their lives by the age of 12 or 13, that they are entitled to have a cellphone with text messaging in high school.

This girl obviously had access to unsupervised internet connections, whether from a desktop, laptop, or cellphone. The parents were blissfully ignorant of the goings on in this girls life, and the fact that she could even meet someone and get put into a position where rape was possible suggest a gross lack of involvement by the parents. I am sure that parents are right beside their daughter supporting here desire to sue a website (why not, they stand to benefit from their daughter's rape), but its too late, the damage has been done.

How long do these blatant social lessons in how to be a good parent have to continue before parents wake up and start realizing there is no substitute for good parenting?

Re:Sorry

[tomjen]

My brother is 16. He has a highspeed connection to his room. Yet I dont consider my parents bad - why? Because they have tought us the common sense not to do something as stupid as this teen.

Surveillance is not substitute for using the inside of your head. This, saddly, seams to be a forgotten art.

Am I the only one...

[Anonymous Coward]

... who is missing the vital point here that a 14 year old shouldn't be going out to dinner with a 19 year old anyway? Shouldn't she be at home doing her homework??

If I was MySpace I would be counter-suing the parents for not taking due care of the daughter. It's just another example of some pikey american trying to make some quick money.

It'll be thrown out.

Re:So, 14yo sex assault victim="slutty little moro

[Tim C]

It really depends upon the facts of the case, which currently are rather lacking. If she's the wide-eyed innocent that her mother is claiming (unlikely at 14, but not impossible) then you're right. If, as the OP clearly suspects/believes, she knew exactly what she was doing (eg leading the 19year old on with teh promise of sex in order to screw a night out out of him) and just took things further than she wanted/got caught by mummy/whatever, then he's right.

Either way, it doesn't excuse the assault (assuming it actually was an assault, which isn't proven yet). However, while I have sympathy for all victims of crime, I have more sympathy for an assault/rape victim who was grabbed on their way home, than I do for one who was prick-teasing and bit off more than they could handle. No, even in the latter case they didn't *deserve* it, but what the hell did they *expect*?

Link

[bje2]

Here's the video, in case you've never seen it...

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/ videos/demetri_martin/index.jhtml

The clip is "Trendspotting: Social Networking"...

Whore Schmore

[aardwolf64]

IANAL, but the last time I checked, a 14-year old cannot enter into a legally binding document without her parent's consent. I think maybe you're the only person anywhere that actually reads those things...

Re:Whore Schmore

[Shajenko42]

Not quite. A 14 year old can enter into contracts - the catch is that they are voidable at the minor's discretion, thereby putting all the risk on the other party.

Re:Whore Schmore

[aardwolf64]

So I guess you could say that the contact isn't binding...

Re:Whore Schmore

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

actually the Myspace TOS also states that you must be AGE 14 or older to use myspace.

So a 14 year old may not enter a legally binding contract, but myspace also makes it clear that you must be 14 to use their service...

Which way is it ?

If my space specifies AGE 14 and up, then surely they are expecting every user, 14 and up to read the terms of service before continueing use.

It doesnt matter if its legally binding or not. Its written in clear words in the terms of service. The terms of service doesnt have to be considered a "legally binding contract" but instead a RULES of sort. She didnt read the rules...

Or maybe she did... and didnt obey them.

"No running at the pool"

Is that a legally binding contract, or a rule?

If you run at the pool and slip and crack your head... is it the fault of the owner?

A good lawyer could make it the fault of the owner, but really you were warned, and disreguarded the rules... and broke your head open. It's your fault.

Same thing in this case. A good lawyer could and of course will try to take MYspace for all its money... but in the end, its the fault of teh 14 year old. She didnt follow the rules, so how can anyone be expected to be responsible for her?

OTHER than her parents of course... which Myspace has every right to sue.

Re:Whore Schmore

[Shajenko42]

It's a small technical point, but you know how those can really screw things up when it comes to law.

MySpace's defence will collapse when...

[ofcourseyouare]

Problem is, MySpace's defence will collapse when the prosecution points out one fact:
"I ask you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, how can this site claim to protect minors when it is owned by a man 38 years older than his wife..."

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[The Evil Couch]

Do you have change for a 1,000 sex slave crate?

Passing the guilt

[neaorin]

This parent is just like the mom who sued McDonald's because her drunk son got killed after starting a fight while waiting in line at a McDrive... I guess if a judge says it's somebody - anybody - else at fault instead of you, that makes all the guilt magically go away.

Whatever.

Re:Passing the guilt

[BCW2]

This is what the U. S. has turned into, nobody is responsible for their own actions. Everything is someone elses fault. If we hold people reponsible for their own actions it might injure their self-esteem, have to protect that at all costs. Common sense is dead. This falls in with the lady that got burned by the coffee at McD's and won the suite, before an appeals court overturned the judgement on the grounds that coffee is suposed to be hot. Duh. This is why the Darwin awards are so popular.

Most of us produce something of value to somebody, that's how you make a living. What do trial lawyers produce? Courts clogged with mindless lawsuits to get recompense for someones stupidity. This has resulted in billions of dollars spent on methods of avoiding liability for the misuse of a product by some fool, companies have to protect themselves. In most of these suites it's the lawyers on both sides that take home most of the money, the so-called victims get a minor percentage. Trial lawyers produce money for trial lawyers.

If you do something stupid, bad things can happen, learn from your mistake and move on.

In the back seat of his car?

[JohnWasser]

According to a KXAN (Austin, TX) news story (http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4927571) the sexual assault happened in the back seat of his car, not in his apartment. I'm surprised that the girl, even at 14, did not know that it's a BAD idea to get into the back seat of a parked car with a guy if you DON'T want to 'get horizontal'. His defense: "I thought she was 15. Yes, I know that 18 is the age of consent here in Texas." o.0

Nothing more then "ca-CHing$$$$"

[GReaToaK_2000]

This is a mother that saw and opportunity to try and cash in on her own inability to parent. Yes, it bothers me that she was attacked, but if you are in the deluded image of todays society being trust worthy you are in for bumps like this.

If you don't pay closer attention and let your daughter get picked up from school by someone other then family in THIS day and age you are STUPID!

I have two daughters and a son. I watch over them like a hawk. I don't know what they are doing every minute but there is NO way I would let them get picked up from school by someone other then myself, my wife, or a family member.

This is nothing more then a mother trying to cash in on the the hype that has been going on around myspace.com for the past 3 months.

In addition if the Dateline special that has aired a couple of times recently about "catching predators" wasn't enough of a wake up call for parents that there are millions of sick disgusting males out there then I don't know what is...

Suing the wrong people

[Cryssen]

Yes, I know parents can't be everywhere, but come on! She's 14, I've seen a plethora of news broadcasts advising parents to monitor their childs MySpace usage, and to educate their children on the BASIC dangers of the internet. Sue your parents kid, they kept you either ignorant, or naive. While naviety is certainly refreshing in this day and age, it is dangerous for those who have the resources to be preyed on by the guiless.

Cry me a river.

[Sj0]

Oh noes! You mean that people might misrepresent themselves on the internet? Does this mean that my girlfreind on that MMORPG might be a nerdy man living in his parents basement instead of a naughty dark elf bitch?

I'll have to cry a river for buffoons everywhere. Your internet connection doesn't come with a disk marked "streetwise", because it's expected that you should bring your own, just like you're supposed to use your own PC.

Re:Whoring your children

[Dare nMc]

> The fact that they are suing makes them shitty, bad, awful, ...
easy now, they had a horrible thing happen to their daughter. It seams natural to blame someone else, because you weren't able to controll the situation as much as you thought.
I think it is likely they are genuine in fealing that MySpace was to blame, and hasn't taken the steps they think are necessary, and thus are trying to hurt them equally.
I don't know anything about myspace to see if they should do more. It does seam like, if their putting forth age information to connect minors with each other, that their should be a check-up in the system. However if no one has complained about this particular person in the past, then I don't see how you could have a succesfull chat room for minors that makes them prove who they are first.

Re:The Macdonalds 3rd-degree burn case had merit.

[1u3hr]

It tasted better when it was served hotter than piss.

Yeah, when it burns your tongue it doesn't taste so bad -- nothing does for a few days till the tastebuds regrow.

Actually RTFA...

[Thaelon]

To create an account, a MySpace user must list a name, an e-mail address, sex, country and date of birth.

"None of this has to be true," the lawsuit said.

Attorneys general from five states, including Texas, have asked MySpace.com to provide more security, the lawsuit said.

I didn't know lawsuits could talk...

This follows the never written, but always true lawyer's rule of: Never sue someone who doesn't have any money.

One can safely assume that Pete Solis, you know - the guy that actually committed a crime - doesn't have nearly the money myspace.com does.

The bottom line is only the perp is responsible ..

[tomhudson]

FTFA: The lawyer for the parents:

MySpace says on a "Tips for Parents" page that users must be 14 or older. The Web site does nothing to verify the age of the user, such as requiring a driver's license or credit card number, Loewy said.

1. A lot of adults don't have drivers licenses
2. who the %!@&(! is going to post their credit card # nowadays unless they have to
3. kids can peek at credit card #s in their parents' wallet or purse, or swipe a carbon from the trash at a restaurant, same as other scam artists
4. People have legitimate reasons to give a false identity (for example, rape victims who want to look for help anonymously)

FTFA: The lawyer for the parents:

To create an account, a MySpace user must list a name, an e-mail address, sex, country and date of birth.

"None of this has to be true," the lawsuit said.

1. So the lawyer states the obvious ... that people lie to get free stuff
2. The lawyer doesn's say whether she lied about her age, and MySpace can't say w/o violating her privacy, so yes, she lied.
3. The lawyer fails to show how MySpace is responsible for Pete Solis' (the alleged rapist) actions.

FTFA:

Attorneys general from five states, including Texas, have asked MySpace.com to provide more security, the lawsuit said. Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott sent a letter to the MySpace.com chief executive officer May 22, asking him to require users to verify their age and identity with a credit card or verified e-mail account.

1. The attorneys general should buy a clue. A LOT of minors have verifiable email accounts (I'm not talking about free accounts like Yahoo! or GMail)
2. People don't want to reveal their real identigy online because of pricacy and security concerns (hint - identity theft - how many sites have coughed up people's details, like cc #s, etc - its a regular occurance)
3. Again, the problem is Pete Solis, not MySpace. Are you going to ask the shops at the local mall to verify identity and age before allowing kids in - because that's where a lot of the under-agers hook up ...

FTFA: Stanford Law School:

Lauren Gelman, associate director of the Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School, said she does not think MySpace is legally responsible for what happens away from its site.

"If you interact on MySpace, you are safe, but if a 13-year-old or 14-year-old goes out in person and meets someone she doesn't know, that is always an unsafe endeavor," Gelman said. "We need to teach our kids to be wary of strangers."

And the same can be said for the local mall, the local cineplex, the local church, the local school, the local park, and any one of a number of other venues. Pete Solis has been arrested and charged. MySpace hasn't been charged, because they commited no crime, and didn't go out of their way to enable a crime. The only other difference (and a very significant one) is Solis, the alleged rapist, doesn't have $30 million.

Bottom line: There is no real way to verify a person's age or identity online that doesn't also cause problems. The internet is like any other public place - anyone can use it, and anyone *will* use it - which is why parents need to be more vigilant. Even that won't be enough, though - if the Internet were to disappear tomorrow, rapes and assaults would still happen, no matter how careful everyone is ... which is why you go after the per[p|v]s.

Re:Well they have a small paragraph in the terms..

[anaesthetica]

I think minors still have to obey terms of service however. It would be absurd if all terms of service were waived simply because of one's age. It would mean that all that stuff I did on AOL back in the day shouldn't have gotten my account banned. Or something.

She Lied Too !!

[HippyInASuit]

To create a MySpace account you must specify an age that is 18 or above! Minors are not intended to use the service at all.

I've seen many profiles where a young girl has selected 18-20 for her age in the profile section, then she explains that she is only 14-16 in the About Me section.

Re:She Lied Too !!

[HippyInASuit]

This may be taboo to reply to my own post, but I just realized something. In his profile, the youngest this guy could have claimed to be is 18, and he was really 19. Maybe he told her via instant messaging or even MySpace's e-mail type service that he was 16 or something?

Even so you can't expect MySpace to check the validiity of every claim made on their site or every claim across the entire Internet by it's users.

Plus his profile said he was at least 18!

Parents?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are her parents? I have an idea, parent your damned kids, and perhaps you can stop things like this before they are in some myspace predator's bed.

Re:Parents?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an idea, parent your damned kids, and perhaps you can stop things like this before they are in some myspace predator's bed.

But how can a responsible parent squeeze $30M out of a big corporation? Because that's all this is about, milking the kid's "victim" status for all it's worth.

Re:Whoring your children

[calzones]

Who had a horrible thing happen to their daughter?

What happened to presumption of innocence?

For all we know, she raped him, but it still legally counts as sexual assault on his part.

Re:Whoring your children

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't know anything about myspace" uh-huh "It seams natural to blame someone else" uh-huh "their putting forth age information to connect minors with each other" uh-huh

NOT rape

[Laebshade]

I didn't know Myspace was a pre-requisite for the exchange of emails and phone calls, nor that the going rate for "facilitating" rape was thirty fucking million dollars.

Even if Myspace *was* a pre-requisite for email, the rape didn't occur on-line. She met someone on-line and then decided to follow-up with a personal get-together. Where was her mother when she was getting ready for her "date"? What kind of mother teaches a 14-year-old girl that it's OK to meet strange guys? Finally, what's to say that age-verification would have prevented the rape? Do they really think that she would have been totally safe if she was meeting a completely anonymous boy her own age?

I am not a lawyer, but it wasn't rape. The article clearly states "sexual assault". That is a broad definition and varies from state to state. See: http://www.google.com/search?q=define:sexual+assau lt , http://www.4woman.gov/faq/sexualassault.htm , or just the regular google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=sexual+assault .

Re:NOT rape

[DavidTC]

And for a minor, sexual assault in Texas includes a blowjob. Either giving or receiving.

Technically, it appears to include such things as licking the side of someone's breast.

There is a slight differrence ....

[Vandre]

..There is a slight difference between the U.S and Belgium: Belgium has 10 million people, while the U.S has over 300 million people. The scope changes completely everything.

Even if the countries like the U.S implemented a system like that, MySpace would be alienating some of its customers from other countries. There are countries where dial-up is the only option, letalone fancy verification systems......

Re:There is a slight differrence ....

[LordNightwalker]

The scope changes absolutely nothing. I agree with you on the issue of low-tech countries though, which is why there should be a fallback mechanism, or barring that, a distinction between "verified" and "unverified" accounts.

Just like PayPal, actually... You can happily use PayPal for online payments up to a certain amount without any verification, but you have the possibility to verify your identity so you can transfer larger amounts, plus people doing business with you will see you're verified and know you are who you claim to be.

Outlandish, eh?

[krewemaynard]

You must not be a lawyer. Or a parent looking to divert attention away from yourself.

It wasn't too long ago that it could have been LiveJournal instead of MySpace in this headline. Should be interesting to see who winds up in the crosshairs once MySpace wears thin. Time for a loser-pays rule for suing, IMO.

Re:Outlandish, eh?

[koweja]

Time for a loser-pays rule for suing, IMO.

Agreed. It would really cut down on the number of crap lawsuits. Unfortunately that is exactly why it will not happen anytime soon.

Re:Outlandish, eh?

[Xabraxas]

The "loser-pays rule" is not a very good idea. It makes it very difficult for anyone but the rich to start a lawsuit. Take a Walmart employee for example. If you were making minimum wage and Walmart violated your rights would you take the chance to sue them? Walmart can afford high powered lawyers to make problems go away, their employees cannot.

Courts are ususally pretty good at throwing crap lawsuits out. You just never hear about those suits. The suits that make the headlines are the ones that have big payouts, and those are usually exaggerated by the press to sound worse than they are. The "hot coffee" lawsuit is a good example of exaggeration at the expense of the victim. Most people agree that it was a crap lawsuit, but they don't really know the specifics of it. If you are one of those people that think it was a crap lawsuit you should look up the details of the case and your opinion may change.

Re:Outlandish, eh?

[_pi-away]

The "loser pays rule" does not apply to every case, only ridiculously frivolous ones like this.

Re:Outlandish, eh?

[databank]

Actually, there's nothing wrong with the loser-pay rules so long as its offered as an option as determined by the courts. If a judge determines that a lawsuit has no merit (such as no damages were actually imposed by the client) then it can make the loser "pay" as punitive measures for wasting the time and effort of the court system. This will put a stop to frivilous cases and self-proclaimed lawyers who waste the taxpayer's money in court costs.

Also as it will be the judges determination of the loser pay's rules, then if there is true merit that the judge deems adequate, then cases that have merit but don't have substantiating facts can be dismissed without penalties. (IE, a TRULY LEGITIMATE case can still be presented to the court.)

Its hard to dismiss the use of "loser pays" when its already effective in England.

The parents are the ones suing, not the girl.

[Kelbear]

First thing the girl would think of after this is to go make some money? If she wanted to litigate against someone responsible she'd go after the 19 year old. Sueing Myspace is the more profitable option. If she was actually aggrieved here she would prefer to get the 19yr old.

The money-grubbing nature of the suit makes it likely that the parents found out about this later and are exploiting the opportunity to milk money off Myspace success. The girl herself wouldn't even be thinking about Myspace unless she didn't even care about the 19yr-old's participation in the first place.

The girl may even have participated willingly in the act(which doesn't make it legal), but then the parents found out later and wanted money.

Suing for what?

[Wolfger]

MySpace is not a dating service. It is not a real-world meeting place. It is not a parent. MySpace has absolutely no responsibility for what happened. I am appalled that this girl's parents are teaching her that it's okay to deny personal responsibility for doing something dumb, and blame somebody else for allowing you to be dumb.

14 years old teen mum sue myspace?

[s0l3d4d]

"Teen, mom sue MySpace.com for $30 million" as they titled it in http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories /local/06/20myspace.html

Wait, a teen, mum that is 14 years old? Is this an eats, shoots, and leaves punctuation here? 14 years old sues myspace, OR the mum of the 14 years old sues myspace, OR a 14 years old teen mum sues myspace?

If we believe the first paragraph of the article, "A 14-year-old Travis County girl who said she was sexually assaulted by a Buda man she met on MySpace.com sued the popular social networking site Monday for $30 million, claiming that it fails to protect minors from adult sexual predators." who knows who she should sue for beeing a 14 years old teen mum by now.

Did she perhaps meet someone (the baby father?) from Yahoo or Livejournal when she was 13?

If people are mothers at the age of 14 in a place where the age for the sexual consent is 18, maybe sue her. Or remove the child and take her to custody.

Re:Well they have a small paragraph in the terms..

[BigChiefMunkey]

That's great, but as a parent post mentioned above, the teen (user) isn't the one suing... it's her mom. Her mom (I am assuming) does not have an account, and therefore never signed said EULA...

So she never agreed to that clause, etc.

Bleah. People like this make me sad for our species. Or at least for our system which allows this preposterousness.

OT: Godwin's Law

[X3J11]

Man it's Nazis like you that take a childs trust and piss all over it - I don't care if you are dressing it up in nicey nicey language and giving a couple of half-assed exceptions to your draconian behavior. I give my child the privacy he wants, he respects me and listens to what I say and then he does it too.

I'm invoking Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) here.

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.

You are lose, ha ha ha. And to remain somewhat on-topic, I'm a father of two (10 and 6, both boys). They get no privacy, aside from the obvious cases, until they're 16. I know my mistakes, and I'm going to do my darnedest to ensure they don't make the same ones. Granted, learning from mistakes is one of the best ways to learn, but there are some mistakes that cost more in the long run.

Re:OT: Godwin's Law

[flumps]

doh.. didn't know about that law. I didnt really mean they were nazis, only that it was somewhat heavy handed. I retract the "nazi" statement.

Sorry. :)

m

Stupid

[Voicesinyourhead]

Look its not My Space's fault, it is moronic teenagers who belive everything they hear. LEsson one don't be stupid.

Laughable

[Etriaph]

I'm certain Tom didn't engineer this young girl and this 19 year old getting together for a rapefest. I'm also certain that it has been for centuries, and should continue to be, the responsibility of her parents to monitor her online activity and to be certain that when she leaves her house she's not going out to meet "some guy" she met on the internet. I turned 29 recently, and if I meet someone online I'll be certain to meet them in a public place the first few times in the interest of not randomly falling victim to some psychotic chick.

I hope she loses the suit and I hope society remembers that parents are the guardians of their children, not Tom of all fucking people.

re

[dhh8088]

This makes me a sad panda.

Stupidity

[apt3877]

In my personal opinion Myspace is one of the worst websites out there. For a while I had a myspace. Slowly when using my myspace I realized nothing on that website was protected well. This case is pure stupidity though. She thinks that she deserves money for stupidity is the bottom line. I know when I was 14 I did not have the best judgement, and would have probly put all my real information out there. This is no reason to sue someone becuase of your own insanity to do so. Hints for the young people: 1) Don't put your name or adress on your myspace 2) Same rules apply as if you were little "DON"T TALK TO STRANGERS" 3) Don't friend anyone you don't know!!! 4) Don't give anyone your information I believe becuase of the person I am there are many more people on myspace using it for good reasons. I also think that no matter were you go you will find people that are out to do somthing wrong. In closing, make sure you don't act stupid and put information that could lead to you getting hurt on the web. Use myspace, but be safe!!! Thanks, APT3877

Re:Wtf - Back and Decker does not make hammers

[vgmtech]

Back and Decker does not make hammers. But they do make Hammer Drills.

Re:Whoring your children

[Dare nMc]

>What happened to presumption of innocence?
ahh I smell a new definition of presumption of innocence, we are too assume all girls under 18 are a virgin unless married, or someone is convicted of having sex with them.

In the US (well except maybe parts of the south) being told your 14 year old daughter is having sex is horrible. Then having the entire town know about it would be the end of the world to her. Now the entire country has been told...

> legally counts as sexual assault
gotcha, so by your definition: the soldiers in Iraq who were abducted, and their dead bodys found, can't be considered mudered, or even harmed, until someone is convicted? What a relief to their families that must be.

Terrorist

[jefu]

But if he hangs himself, won't he be considered a terrorist using an act of "asymmetric warfare"?

IGTT (I give this troll) 8/10

[he-sk]

Your logical argument from suing to whoring is compelling, plus you get bonus points for your totally unrelated insult to Christians worldwide.

Wait, you're serious? Damn!

Re:IGTT (I give this troll) 8/10

[Anonymous Coward]

totally unrelated insult to Christians worldwide

It is not really unrelated as modern Christianity has made sex for money into a sin (not that Jesus Christ ever said anything which would lead us to that belief). Often the sect of Christianity known as Puriitanism, which seems to have influenced most major forms of Christianity in the United States, is considered the source of this. Of course, if you ignore Jesus and accept the Old Testament as the written rule, you might get a different result. But then, without Jesus, Christianity is not really Christianity.

Maybe Christians worldwide that don't actually follow Jesus Christ's word are insulting Christianity, no?

That's kind of naive.

[rantingkitten]

Their freedom to walk without direct involvement of an adult is gradually increased, and if a worrying trend develops their their freedom is reined back a little, for instance if they keep wandering into the road then they might be made to hold hands for the rest of that trip and that pattern repeated until they've learnt the lesson.

This is all well and good for walking, but the problem is that we never really let kids get that freedom when it comes to social interaction, or more specifically, sexual issues. We do everything in our power to keep them blithely unaware or underinformed, sheltering them from anything sexual or "offensive". Especially during a time when every hormone in their bodies compel them to experiment, we try to artifically suppress it, act like it doesn't exist.

Then, when they turn 18, we kick them out into the real world and assume they can handle it on their own. Big surprise, none of them has any idea what the fuck they're doing because we've gone out of our way to pretend the Real World doesn't exist, and most of them do stupid shit the first couple of years.

A 14 year old isn't going to have the full maturity of an adult, of course, but if we didn't have this ridiculous idea that all children must be sheltered until the last possible second, a 14 year old could easily grasp the concept of "When older guys take you home, their intentions probably aren't all that pure."

Then again, I get the impression she knew this already, but the parents flipping out is yet another symptom of "Most of all we've got to hide it from the kids." As long as we can continue to villify sex and anyone who chooses to have it, our precious children will be safe!

The 19year old already got charged...

[Wingfat]

So the police have already done their job and arested the 19year dude. Would you beable to sue the phone company if someone calls you and then you meet them and they rape you? i dout it. this should get out of court soon. Stupid girl probally liked it but the mom found out and got upset.

Re:Whoring your children

[Anonymous Coward]

No... they're legally called Missing In Action. There are still soldiers MIA from vietnam.

Myspace is remarkably safe...

[clambake]

I was reading some stats once on this whole thing... The number of kids on myspace (pop: 50 million? Is that right!?) in a given month who get assaulted is in the 2-10 range. The number of people in San Jose, California (less than one million people) is something like 60-100.

So, it's technically a LOT safer for your kids to be online than to be in a medium sized town in Califonia.

A question of abuse.

[matt me]

What is being abused here is the legal system.

Re:A question of abuse.

[Synic]

Quit yer bitchin' and lobby your politicians to change it then. Your Slashdot comment has zero effect on the legal system in the United States.

Also you can't be surprised that people take advantage of the legal system when it is obviously flawed, just look at how many people take advantage of the financial, tax, welfare, disaster relief, and other systems of government. People were ripping off FEMA for thousands of dollars by applying as others who were deceased or incarcerated, and using a P.O. Box or the address of an abandoned lot (prior to the hurricane) for the application. If the system is broken, then fix it. Don't just stand around pointing at it and going, "Damn, that shit is broken."

Re:A question of abuse.

[matt me]

I don't even live in said country.

You could say that to anybody making any kind of commentary on anything, do you have a problem with that? There isn't a button on slashdot for start pressure group, just one for comment. Now time for the other clichéd argument - if everyone is saying such stuff, why did you pick on me?

Matt - professional hypocrit.

30million is 1% of their estimated worth?

[StephanTual]

I think the really shocking news here, is that a broken, slow, ugly, user-unfriendly website is actually worth 3 BILLION dollars.

So much for spending nights and weekend perfecting code.

Re:30million is 1% of their estimated worth?

[Synic]

It's the installed loyal userbase, not necessarily the exact codebase, which was worth that much to Newscorp. The name cache alone is probably worth a fortune in the eyes of some people.

Re:30million is 1% of their estimated worth?

[StephanTual]

And silly me who thought the world had moved on from counting 'eyeballs' and discussing 'burn rate' at lunch time.

This is why I post AC only and rarely visit...

[Anonymous Coward]

It just seems so far out that I'm hoping you chose your words poorly; please tell me that I've misread your actual intent.

Nope, from what I could read through the typos, you pegged his intent perfectly. And he got modded up +4 insightful for it. And that's the whole reason I only show up wearing a paper bag over my head in the cesspool that Slashdot has been allowed to become by people who don't care.

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[rehtonAesoohC]

...the rape didn't occur on-line.

I put on my wizard robe and hat.

She ought to sue her parents instead :

[Anonymous Coward]

Why ?

1) they obviously didn't teach her enough about the true nature of the world.

2) they have endowed her with poor intelligence.

It remains the law

[TheConfusedOne]

You're combining two issues here. First is age of consent, second is prosecution of violations (combined with the additional burdens placed on "sex offenders"). Your friend can complain all he wants about the way the law has treated him but as a 20 year old he was cognizant of the relevant laws (at least as far as the statutory rape part) and chose to violate them. (Note that many states are now modifying those laws to take into account age differences of the two parties involved so a 19 year old with a 17 year old isn't the same as a 40 year old with a 17 year old.)

Yes the age of consent is arbitrary, but then again so are the ages for driving, voting, and drinking. You'll also see that the age of consent varies from state to state. This isn't some moral issue or puritanical holdover, it's what the people in each state have decided makes sense to them.

Maybe the thing is to lobby for new laws and have procreation licenses issued just like drivers licenses. If you can prove that you are mature enough to understand and deal with the consequences of these actions then you're free to act.

Re:It remains the law

[mirio]

My point is that he commited a misdemeanor and is treated like a....no...worse than a bank robber. I guess I didn't make that clear.

History is a bad leader in this case

[TheConfusedOne]

Historically people died a lot younger too.

Wouldn't you think that a 14 year old has enough on their plate without worrying about becoming a mommy or daddy before they can drive? We could also go into the whole area of whether they are physiologically ready (beyond mere menses) to carry a baby to term.

Yes, the age of consent is arbitrary, just like driving, drinking, and voting too. If you really don't like it then lobby to change it.

Mod Parent Up

[fuzznutz]

Parents of teen girls: Girls of that age are sexually aware. Most girls that age want a dude with a car.

It's sad that society is in such denial when it comes to teen sexuality. There is a twelve year old girl in our neighborhood who is pregnant by a thirteen year old boy. The teens engaging in sexual relations in our town claim to be "married" to each other. My 14 year old daughter (who we watch like a hawk) can identify the girls in her school that give blow jobs. And we live in a small town with only about 800 residents.

Re:Mod Parent Up

[Hatta]

My 14 year old daughter (who we watch like a hawk) can identify the girls in her school that give blow jobs. And we live in a small town with only about 800 residents.

Can you get her to send me a list?

Re:Mod Parent Up

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, FYI, kids make things up as well.

it's the parent who failed

[fribhey]

seems to me that it's the parent who failed to protect their child from adult sexual predators..... not myspace

Sue Google, too

[Urza9814]

http://www.barryloewy.com/
Just look at that site...they know nothing about the internet obviously, and it's not just obvious from this lawsuit. They have a contact form on their site, but guess what? It doesn't work.

Here's my question. I have 5 gmail accounts. Only one of them uses my real name and stuff. Why aren't these guys suing Google, too? I'd like to see how far they'd get with that one...
Oh, speaking of which, you need a valid email to join myspace...and most email providers require you to be over 13. I bet she lied on that one, too, so how is it myspace's fault?

Why do companies operate in the U.S.?

[RexRhino]

Is there some very important reason that companies like myspace operate in the United States? It seems to me they could incorporate in the Caymen, contract another company to operate the physical servers in the U.S., and avoid the whole lawsuit thing.

It seems to me that the U.S. (and even Canada and Western Europe, although not as bad yet) are just becoming too difficult to do buisness in... I understand that a factory producing goods for the domestic market, or a service industry, or something like that might be difficult to move overseas. But, really, does this need to be the case for Internet buisnesses?

One-sided media reports

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry folks, but there are always two sides to a story and this article is scant on details. "Sexual Assault" can be any number of things, ranging from the guy just trying to cop a feel, to full on rape.

The guy is 19. He could very well have been a high school senior as he claimed, so where is the lie? They apparently went on a date. Movie, dinner, and then BACK TO HIS PLACE. Are we to assume she was forced to? Some how I doubt it.

Do we know that the girl was honest about HER age?

We also don't know if perhaps she had the intention of "doing it" but then had second thoughts. I've heard horror stories about young teens consenting and then changing their mind right when they're already doing it!! And then trying to claim it was assault because she said no AFTER penetration.

And with all this focus on older men pursuing younger girls through MySpace, people are forgetting that there are plenty of young girls LYING about THEIR age. Yet there are still no protections for the men if this is the case.

Whats next?

[AtomRiot]

Whats next, some moron will sue MySpace because they spilled hot hot McD's coffee on themselves while reading blog comments?

I mean, who would take this case really? She was 14 and she had a MySpace account, enough said. Was her age accurately portrayed on the website? Or was she posing as an older person?

I think that if MySpace gives anyone money, they should give it to the everyday user. I mean that site is addictive and everyone has a profile it seems. Of course your bound to get sexual predators. Your also going to get preachers and lawyers and Police officers but we never hear about them on the site.

How is this Myspace's fault?

[skiman1979]

Granted, it's terrible what happened to the girl, but how is Myspace to blame here? If someone goes to a bar, meets someone, goes back to their place, and gets assaulted, should the victim sue the bar? After all, that's where the victim met the attacker. Is this girl's family going to sue the movie theater and restaurant where they ate and watched a movie? Those businesses didn't do anything to protect her rights either... Myspace does provide *some* protection for minors, if the user is true about their age, but it is not Myspace's responsibility to screen each and every user to verify their true age. There shouldn't even be a lawsuit. Go after the attacker instead.

Re:"In May, after a series of emails and phone cal

[themusicgod1]

Where was her mother when she was getting ready for her "date"? What kind of mother teaches a 14-year-old girl that it's OK to meet strange guys?

Probably the kind that slept around with the 19 year old studs when she was that age. They do exist, you know.

A couple more ideas

[Anonymous Coward]

What about suing the parking lot owner?
Or let's say the guy met her in the street and said he's 14 and he does look 14. In that case, let's sue the city. On the other hand, 1% of the city's budget is much less than 1% of MySpace's worth.

Seriously, don't 14-year-old girls watch TV? They're supposed to know what grown-ups do to a girl after taking her to a dinner and a movie.

PONIES!!

[v3xt0r]

MySpace Ponies!!

Re:The bottom line is only the perp is responsible

[DavidTC]

The internet is like any other public place - anyone can use it, and anyone *will* use it - which is why parents need to be more vigilant.

Actually, it's a good deal safer than any other public place. No woman has ever been assaulted in the parking lot while walking back to her car after shopping at Amazon.com, no kid has ever been snatched while visiting pbskids.org, no one has ever shot up a room full of teenagers at MySpace.com because he gets picked on, no guy has ever walked into an IRC channel where they didn't like 'his kind' there and ended up injured. (Whatever 'kind' that might be.) And barring some rather extreme technologic advances, none of that will ever happen.

The problem arises in other environments. The internet merely created a way for people to communicate their non-internet information to each other.

Like you said, the same can be said for the local mall, the local cineplex, the local church, the local school, the local park, and any one of a number of other venues. Except there, they are in danger at that place, in addition to anywhere else they go, and can even be secretly followed and stalked, whereas online, it's completely impossible for a random person to physically locate you in real life unless you want them to.

Although, I might add, it's rather trivial to find 14-year old girls in real life. I've recently been stumbling over like five of them every time I go into the local Taco Bell, along with their male counterparts.(1) There's always some local hangout, and probably three or four of them. Should Taco Bell be sued if they let 19-year olds talk to them and exchange phone numbers? (And there's obviously, um, their school itself. Plenty of 19-year olds go to the same school as 14-year olds.)

1) Actually, I'm just guessing their age. Has anyone else noticed, as you grow older, that high-schoolers get younger and younger? Surely I was older than that in high school. But I'm pretty certain that some of them drive there, at least they never seem to have any parents with them, so logically one of them have to be at least 16, and from what I remember, people in high school normally hang out only with other high-schoolers. But they all look like they're 12 to me.

Profiting from rape

[Tweekster]

Wow, what great parents, they are trying to profit from their daughters rape.

Does this mean ...

[kikipedia]

I can move forward with my suit against Starbucks? Those bastards didn't verify that dude who asked me out there last week wasn't married! Hmm, what is my pain and suffering worth? Woo hoo ... I'm rich!

Other way around

[booch]

Shouldn't it be the boy who is suing MySpace? He's the one who thought he was dating a 17-year-old girl, right?

Confused on the suit

[hurfy]

"The suit claims that MySpace doesn't verify a user's identity or age and doesn't do enough to protect users."

Dont they tell kids not to meet ppl or give out info? Isn't that more than most forums.

So if MySpace had verified his age and id it would be ok to met him and get date-raped? It never said how old or who he was supposed to be other than high school. So if he was a year or two younger (assuming he is not actually a hs student) it would be ok then ?!?

It is not like MySpace claims to be a kids only dating service or something. Whats diferent than any other forum? or the mall? or ?

Why no info about charges and stuff in article? seems a little fishy

Not to mention why is someone filing a suit always news lately. For all we know it will be thrown out the 1st time a judge sees it.

Two Directions

[Trojan35]

Ahh. While this isn't a perfect example, it looks like companies in the future might not be able to have their cake and eat it too. If companies are allowed to data mine and claim that this information helps them create a product, do they have any implicit duty to use that information to help protect their customers? I'd prefer no data mining to begin with, but this could take an interesting turn.

I think there are better ways $$

[dilvish_the_damned]

FTA
In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19.

What was the email client? If it was Outlook then there is a certain expectation of the twerp being in the money... Microsoft has deeper pockets than Myspace. What car did he use? Who owned the parking lot where the assault took place? For that matter what movie theater was so irresponsible to allow those two to sit together within talking distance?
People have to understand, we must keep people like this seperated and its our responsability.
Oh wait, he was arrested for the various crimes including the assault? Oh.
What were we talking about again? Oh right, Myspace. Maybe they could just protect the kids by prominently displaying a warning label:


NOTICE:
MySpace.com will not be held responsible for any dammage or theft of virtue or merchandis. By accessing this site you agree not to steal vitue or merchanise from any of our members. Or their dogs.
NOTICE:


There, that should do it. Our kids are safe again. We can stop participating in thier lives and go back to our regularly scheduled indifference and wait for them to get into the next horrible situation.

Dumbasses our pissing in the social pool again, get the eraser.

How is MySpace different from the USPS?

[ChrisA90278]

If she met the guy through some kind of "pen pal" system that used the US Postal Service to exchange written paper letters would she sue the USPS? My guess is not.

Finally!

[tfcdesign]

I knew the day would come. This alone is enough for MySpace to block out teens all together.

Re:Whoring your children

[DavidTC]

An underaged person raping someone of age does not legally count as sexual assault on the older person's part. All assault requires intent, period. No intent, no assault, sexual or otherwise

Good luck in court with that one, through. But legally, no, it doesn't.

OTOH, 'sexual assault' isn't 'rape' either...pawing at her until she could get out of the car is 'sexual assault', and that's probably what happened. I think this one of those 'The girl stopped at first, the guy kept going and was on second and trying for third and she slapped him and leapt out of the car.'. Yes, that's obviously not acceptable, but it's not rape, it's over-eagerness.

However, the fact he was 19 and she was 14, does, in my eyes, change it a little. That's the sort of crap I expect from 15-year olds, not 19-year olds. He should probably get a month or so in jail if that is what happened.(1)

Whereas a 15-year old probably just need a stern talking to by the police about how you go at the slower of whatever speed you two think is acceptable, and he needs to ask if he's not sure where she's going, and they're going to give him the benefit of the doubt this time, but try that crap again and they'll lock him up.(2)

However, she'll be fine, with no lasting trauma at all. Teenager girls who date get grabbed where they don't necessarily want to be grabbed yet, and they, in general, are fine. (I think almost every single adult human being on the planet, man or woman, has had some experience like that, where someone tried to 'make a move' on them they were not expecting and didn't really welcome.)

Except now her parents are dragging her though this absurd lawsuit. I'd like to see how they assert that somehow this wouldn't have happened if it was a 14- or 15- year old boy....they're a lot stupider about this sort of thing. Of course, they don't have a car, but that's never presented a problem before. (And this is ignoring the fact she's legally required to spend most of her the day in a building full of 18- and even 19-year olds, called high school.)

1) OTOH, 'sexual assault' also covers all sorts of things barely short of rape. I'm going to presume, however, that that sort of assault doesn't happen inside cars in parking lots.

2) Anyone who disagrees is reminded that we have different rules for child lawbreakers already, because they are immature, and there is no one so immature as a 15-year old who thinks this time he might finally get in the girl's pants.

Really? Could have fooled me

[Moraelin]

The vast majority of messages I see here, or at least the ones I see modded up to +5, are more along the lines of a-priori being sure that:

1) the girl alone is to blame for getting raped (as is usually the argument in this kind of a situation: a lot of guys seem to be _very_ quick to join in the chorus that there must have been something the woman said, or wore, or just being at the guy's house, or just being in a park alone, or whatever, that _clearly_ absolves the guy of any fault and makes rape entirely the woman's fault.)

2) the girl surely said "yes" and only she or her mother lied about it afterwards

3) (or maybe 2.a.) that for that matter the girl should have known that if she goes to a guy's house she's _expected_ to put out, so that is obviously "yes" enough for any guy, and obviously her fault if she acts surprised if the guy goes ahead and rapes her

4) She obviously lied about her age, probably even had a faked ID at that, and certainly any 14 year old looks just like a 19 year old. (Wonder why the paedophiles don't just go for 19 year olds, then, if they supposedly look the same as a child anyway?)

And several variations of the above. Complete with the usual blanket generalizations (e.g., surely if the guy had a car, the girl wanted to fuck him) that obviously justify the blanket conclusion that in any imaginable case one of the above applies.

Not saying that that couldn't have been the case, but the way they're passed for definitive truth before even knowing what happened there, is... strange.

And at any rate, far from being biased against the guy, I see only a lot of people who are _certain_ that it was the girl that's guilty before even making her case.

Frankly, all that's missing so far, to make the edifice of preconception complete, is the standard Slashdot blanket generalization "there are no women online, and any 14 year olds are male FBI agents." Presumably noone has yet figured how to make that fit a rape case, what with having to be present in court and go through a medical examination or whatnot. Kinda hard to fool all those that you're a 14 year old girl if you were a 40 year old guy. Still, I'm surprised that noone at least tried posting that. Kinda feels like not Slashdot without that being posted half a dozen times in a topic about people meeting online.

Re:Really? Could have fooled me

[xilmaril]

This could be way, way less sinister than your suggesting.

These are slashdotters responding to an article which (I gather) makes the assumption that he's a sick pedo. So they present a plausible counter-theory. That's what I'd do, regardless of which way the article decided. If you counter a statement, at least the fair (correct) conclusion is more likely to be found than if everybody just jumps on the bandwagon for whichever explanation comes up first.

Re:Really? Could have fooled me

[rtechie]

The author of the article didn't investigate anything. She saw fit to report the accusations in the lawsuit as fact. The relavent text from the article:

"In May, after a series of e-mails and phone calls, he picked her up at school, took her out to eat and to a movie, then drove her to an apartment complex parking lot in South Austin, where he sexually assaulted her, police said. He was arrested May 19."

The actual Austin police press release:

"Austin Police Department child abuse detectives have filed charges against a suspect in connection with a sexual assault of a child case.

Pete I. Solis, 19, has been charged with Sexual Assault of a Child, a second-degree felony. He is in custody.

During the investigation detectives learned the suspect made contact with the 14-year-old female victim through her online web page. They continued to communicate using email and cell phones. The victim was sexually assaulted in the suspect's vehicle in the 6800 block of West Gate Boulevard.

This case remains under investigation by APD child abuse detectives."
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/ blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2006/05/19/police_man _sexually_assaulted_1.html

The age of consent in Texas is 17. Notice that he is NOT being charged with Rape. "Sexual Assault of a Child" is essentially a "statutory rape" charge, which strongly implies that she DID consent. Of course, since Mr. Solis is apparently poorer than his "victim", he'll almost certainly end up in jail.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/texas.htm

1) the girl alone is to blame for getting raped (as is usually the argument in this kind of a situation: a lot of guys seem to be _very_ quick to join in the chorus that there must have been something the woman said, or wore, or just being at the guy's house, or just being in a park alone, or whatever, that _clearly_ absolves the guy of any fault and makes rape entirely the woman's fault.)

The issue here isn't whether or not the girl was raped. That's irrelavent. The question is whether or not MySpace was irresponsible for allowing her to communicate with someone who (may) have raped her. An analogy would be suing AT&T because she arranged the date with the guy on the telephone. Which, in fact, she did. So why isn't her mom suing AT&T? Because that is obviously ridiclous. Her lawyer hopes the novelty of the internet and MySpace will allow him to screw MySpace by manipulating a gullible judge and jury who aren't familiar with the internet (or, MUCH more likely, prodive leverage for a settlement).

And think about the rules the plaintiff wishes to implement. They want to MySpace to require age verification of all users. Assuming this works, it means minors will simply not be able to use the service anymore. So we prevent children from using the telephone because a sexual predator MIGHT contact them? And it's not like this would affect any of the OTHER free homepage providers.

The fact remains that the girl was not kidnapped, and MySpace did not aid in that kidnapping. Everything that happened (according to both parties) was consentual up until a certain point in Mr. Solis' car. Are you saying that MySpace should SOMEHOW have monitored what was going on in that car?

Fundamentally, this has nothing to do with children. An adult woman (or man) could make exactly the same claim with the same rationale, and it would be just as bogus.

Re:Really? Could have fooled me

[mandopoet]

Maybe you need to set your threshold a little higher, because the only posts I've seen remotely fitting your description are those which ask what the big deal is when a high school freshman makes out with a high school senior. The vast majority have been defenses of MySpace on grounds of the impossiblility of verying age on line, remonstrations against the parents for not properly supervising their daughter, or lamentations that regardless of how the facts of the case are adjudicated, this guy is screwed.

And maybe you should RTFA, because the guy isn't charged with rape or attempted rape or stautory rape, only sexual assault--a serious crime, to be sure, but not rape.

Too bad it wasn't a hot teacher....

[penguin_dance]

Ah, if only it had been a hot 25 year-old teacher putting the moves on a 14 year-old boy. Then myspace.com would have nothing to worry about.

You're Out Of Touch

[Petersko]

"WTF was a 14 year old doing looking to meet a guy for anyway?"

It's been a long, long time since you were that age, hasn't it? Me too. But the innocence of 14 ain't what it used to be, my friend. I'm 35.

I don't want to scare you if you have a daughter that age, but a great many girls at 14 are doing stuff that, until I was 20, I only saw in movies I rented at the local no-age-questions-asked video store.

Re:You're Out Of Touch

[networkBoy]

My little girl is only three at the moment (I'm 30). If I could hit the pause button I would. I know my big battle will be to not be overly protective while still being protective enough.
-nB

Re:You're Out Of Touch

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as an 18 year old male with overprotective Christian parents, lean toward underprotection. Teach her to handle situations herself.

I can't stress enough the importance of not being overprotective. There are times I'd willingly be raped just to shake off my parents.

Re:You're Out Of Touch

[drinkypoo]

Amen to that. A friend of mine used to manage an arcade in santa cruz county. I was standing around shooting the shit with him and two little girls who couldn't have been any older than about 12 came up and started hanging out near us, not saying anything but with that look on their face that says they're up to something... So I ask them if we can help them with something, and not in "that" way or anything you fucking pervs, and they ran off giggling. I was about 25 at the time. I think the biggest reason I don't want kids is that both my brothers have two daughters each and the thought of trying to raise a girl scares the living shit out of me.

Re:You're Out Of Touch

[Anonymous Coward]

willingly be raped

Re:You're Out Of Touch

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, "willingly be fucked up the ass". There's not much difference, it hurts either way.

I got the point

[TheConfusedOne]

I think the various registry laws are outrageous as well. "Remember the children" unfortunately makes a strong rallying cry for a lot of bad laws. That however has nothing to do with "14 year olds should be able to decide on things like sex" and "informed consent" which is why I mentioned that you were mixing two things together.

Two things

[TheConfusedOne]

Many states have laws that allow for under-age minors to marry if their guardians approve.

As for the "banging anything I can get my hands on" well this is certainly a normal desire but the issue isn't the banging but what can be the result of it. How would you like to have been staring at either marriage or child support payments at the age of 15?

Re:Two things

[inKubus]

As for the "banging anything I can get my hands on" well this is certainly a normal desire but the issue isn't the banging but what can be the result of it. How would you like to have been staring at either marriage or child support payments at the age of 15?

Indeed.

newsflash! myspace to...

[Anonymous Coward]

...verify age of all 80 million users, work outsourced to NSA. they will be knocking on your door shortly.

i wish i could say i was joking, but i'm not so sure, anymore.

on a more serious note (i think, anyway), how about suing the perpetrator of the actual crime?

i feel bad for this girl's bad decisions and/or poor guidance by her parents.

i fail to see how myspace is responsible and i fail to see how blaming myspace for her own poor decisions (conscious or naive, i don't know) is going to help her to take personal responsibility for her decisions going forward.

if guilty, i hope the guy gets 15-20 years.

You can sue anyone for any ammount...

[bill_kress]

how is that news? If I file a suit suing slashdot for $30 million because some of the comments annoy me it's not illegal.

And the ability to sue for high amounts is very important--not in this case (Obviously), but in hundreds of cases across the state where the government wasn't doing it's job and someone had to find another way to challenge some companies horrendous practices.

What would be wrong would be to give a case like this a lot of publicity--or to let it win...

code underage credit cards like licenses

[peter303]

Until the 2000s minors couldnt be primary credit account holders. There could be a special number scheme reserved for underage credit, much like drivers licenses.

21st century prostitution

[dave562]

Before the internet it was scandalous when parents would turn their daughters out onto the street for a few extra bucks. Now we have MySpace, where parents can ignore the fact that their daughters are whores and then attempt to sue for a whole hell of a lot more than they would ever see if they simply put their daughters out on the street.

Girl sues Stop-n-Shop next?

[Brett Johnson]

Girl sues Stop-n-Shop because the store failed to protect her from the 19-year old she met in the produce section. He invited her to join him in the back of his van out in the parking lot. But when she followed him, there wasn't a cute puppy in the van at all...

Plain and simple...

[gbulmash]

How is a 19 year old man more capable of sexual assault than a 17 year old football player? If the guy who had sexually assaulted her were actually 17 instead of 19 would she go "oh, my fault" and not sue MySpace?

She and her mom are looking for a scapegoat for her poor judgement and looking to get rich over it.

I feel for her. Sexual assault is bad news and can really mess with a woman's head for years. But there's a difference in my level of sympathy for a woman who takes precautions and gets assaulted anyway vs. a foolish woman who intentionally puts herself in harms way and then tries blame a third party so she doesn't have to take responsibility for her bad judgement.

- G

Ridiculous

[Jacob_Blalock]

"'We feel that 1 percent of that is the bare minimum that they should compensate the girl for their failure to protect her online when they knew sexual predators were on that site,' he said." Someone screwed up their math. If 30 million is 1 percent of MySpace's worth then that would put MySpaces worth at 3 billion. There is no way MySpace is worth 3 billion dollars.

Things have changed...

[cr0sh]

When I was 16 (16+ years ago, heh), I had a phone line and 1200 baud modem in my room, with my two TRS-80 Color Computers. I had a phone line in my room when I turned 13, and got my first modem (a 300 baud screamer) when I was 14. I've been "online" ever since. I don't remember my parents really caring what I did on my computer, or what I downloaded or looked at. I know I managed to get both cheesy porn (ascii and ansi art, mainly - but some 16 color GIFs on my Color Computer 3 as well) as well as various "anarchy" text files from the MetalShop BBS (never did anything with them, but they were fun to read).

I know the internet and all it holds is a vastly different beast from the BBS's of old. Even so, in theory, the possibilities for wierd people reaching out to local kids on a local BBS seems much higher. I guess my parents instilled in me the sense of knowing right from wrong (for the most part) - I tend to wonder if parents are failing at this nowadays...?

Of course it's crap

[dekker]

I've got a post on this over at Metroblogging Austin. It's a blemish on a supposedly enlightened tech town.

How exactly could MySpace prevent it?

[pixellette]

Suppose the attorneys and the generals and all the greedy lawyers and mothers win and MySpace has to require a credit card or driving license to prove that a user is above 18/19/etc. So the guy registers as a 17 year old and obviously you cannot require such a person to has these IDs. What's the point then? How would this prevent situations like in the story? If the guy lies and says he is younger - he is a minority and isn't required to prove age, if he doesn't lie and says he's 19, well, she's been warned.

And...

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to slap her across the face for this. Use god damn fucking common sense. That is your fault for going to see him and giving him your info, and his fault for raping you. MySpace is a median and nothing more. Do you sue the producers of 'air' for allowing people to survive to rape eachother? probably not...

Attention Parents!

[east coast]

Keep your brats off of my internet. Everything will be fine.

It's much worse than this...

[cr0sh]

If the status quo of laws is that one cannot HELP be ignorant of without becoming a lawyer, then a core tenet of a legal system is "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is unconscionable.

I agree with you, but it is much worse than this - lawyers don't even know the "law", outside of their specialty. At one time in history, one could be a simple "lawyer", and be able to work any sort of cases. As laws became more complex, and people started needing lawyers for only certain areas of the law, specialization became the norm. Today, it is not uncommon to find a lawyer who could easily litigate a patent case, but be clueless when it comes to criminal defense.

To make matters even worse, we have judges who don't know the law, or whose understanding of the law is completely at odds with what the law really says. Couple both of these issues with the general public's inability to understand the law, along with their lack of knowledge of their rights a jurors (ie, FIJA - though judges DO KNOW about this point, and take great measures to ensure the potential jurors don't, even though it is their right to exercise), and you have the situation you have today.

A very ugly, and very unjust system...

You are a sheep.

[Bob Cat - NYMPHS]

Mostly because you believe things you see on the Internet. http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp

Where did you get your sex-monitoring chip implant

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand Belgium also lets you choose which arm you can get your sex-monitoring chip implanted in. Talk about Freedom(R)!

Freedom(R), Freedom(R), Freedom(R), Oi!

stupidity sometimes burns you

[Anonymous Coward]

this is tough. It really sucks this girl was assaulted, but I'm a little sick of the phrase "the victim is never at fault".

We don't live in a Disney movie. We live in a world filled with psychopaths and assholes, and if you walk around with a glazed look on your face, someone is going to take adavantage of you.

There are scary, scary people out there and my parents made sure I knew this as a VERY young child.

"do not go ANYWHERE with someone you don't know"

"always be aware of your surroundings, watch where you're going, don't stare at your feet"

"if someone wants you to get in the car with them, RUN it's better to get shot and left bleeding than taken somewhere else for god knows what to happen"

I got these lectures not because my parents wanted me to live my life in fear, but because they wanted me to know I was always in control until I gave up that control.

I did some really, really stupid things in my time, and by all rights should have wound up dead a few times, but because my parents taught me BASIC SURVIVAL skills I survived my "invincible years" and made it to my 30's.

I think more parents should take the time to tell their kids the facts about life. The TV and Gym class don't quite cut it anymore.

Simple Solution, Don't let your kid use myspace

[Atroxodisse]

I don't know how this seems to elude people but if you give your kid a tool like a computer you should at least know as much about it as they do. Further, you shouldn't let them go online unsupervised. There's plenty of software out there that can keep kids from visiting whatever sites you make off limits. Myspace is not responsible for how people use their site. If they really cracked down and required proof of identity then no one under 18 would be allowed to use it anyway. Perhaps thats a better alternative. Hear I am, preaching to the choir.

Now what?

[TylerTheGreat]

If we are going to sue MySpace for this, shouldn't we also being sueing malls where these people can meet, or where people can get abducted by rapists? Why aren't we sueing the convinence stores that sell cigarettes and beer that kill hundreds of thousands every year? Why don't we sue the fast food restaurants for selling us food that makes us fat? Oh wait...

There exists here a big logical gap

[DrKC9N]

the site failed to protect her from a 19-year old

Using this logic, I can sue Slashdot for failing to protect me from home burglary.

Myspace warning:

[Anonymous Coward]

"Profile information not verified. Believe at your own risk"

P.S.: I think that holds for most of the Internet

Re:You are Eeyore

[NeuroAcid]

Because you don't know how to laugh. I'de rather be a sheep then an ass.

OffTopic: Re:Hang on...

[Yardboy]

Not sure if you were pointing me to the split meaning of "moot" or just attempting humor, but you learn something new every day and this was mine for the day (see below courtesy dictionary.com).

My intent was "has no practical value". Now, for your repeated /. enjoyment, we will move on to a full-community discussion of what "begging the question" means and how to use it properly in a diatribe...

Usage Note: The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate. But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean "of no significance or relevance." Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value. A number of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent of the Usage Panel accepts it in the sentence The nominee himself chastised the White House for failing to do more to support him, but his concerns became moot when a number of Republicans announced that they, too, would oppose the nomination. When using moot one should be sure that the context makes clear which sense is meant.

Re:OffTopic: Re:Hang on...

[andywebz]

nah, nothing that high brow. It's a bit against the rules, but I'll make an exception and point you to the cultural reference.

http://www.friends-tv.org/zz708.html

I could drive my Pious around for a week on that kind of smugness.

What steps did she take to protect herself?

[AriaStar]

If she met someone, she either gave info or put up too much info to allow herself to be found. Either way, he knew where she went to school as he picked her up, and they knew what the other looked like, or had some way to know who the other way. Where were her parents during this, and why were they not monitoring their children's online activities and teaching them online safety? The others criminals here are the parents for neglecting to keep their own children safe (this is not to justify that man because what he did is still wrong, but he's not the only wrong-doer here). And that girl also needs to take some responsibility. It's not like she was innocently walking down the street and some random person grabbed her. No, she met someone online and gave him hinformation on where to find her, either directly or through posting enough on her MySpace page.

Would she and her mom still be suing if that guy had been 17, or 16, 15, or 14? More than his age, MySpace can't protect against deviants as they come in all ages. Him being 19 or 14 has nothing to do with the fact that he was capable of assaulting her, and her parents didn't teach her to not give out her personal information.

Realistically, adults over 18 can have credit cards, which are used to "verify" someone to be at least 18. Teens 16 and over can have licenses, and 15 and over permits. So I guess all someone has to do to pretend to be 14 is claim to not have any of that, right? The younger you are, the less you're going to have when it comes to ID that can be electronically verified. Plus would you really want your child on a site that has to verify age, either as an adult or minor, to ensure a little safety? And this can't ensure in any way that someone, adult or minor, isn't capable of committing any crimes!

I doubt I need to reinforce the fact that parents need to be parents, monitor their kids, teach their kids responsible behavior, and hold both the parents and their kid at partly responsible in cases such as this.

Incorrect formula used by lawyer

[Elsimer]

I found the method this lawyer used to figure out the penalty somewhat... confusing. MySpace is evidently "worth" $3 billion dollars. They've had 1 incident that peripherally involved them. Thus they should pay 1 percent of their net worth ($30,000,000) to the lawyer who will then turn around and give the teen and negligent parents some tiny percentage of that amount?? I'm thinking the formula should be more like this: take MySpace's profit for one year, divide that number by the number of registered users, then multiply it by the number of criminal charges that have been filed between your client and MySpace. Incidentally, I did some quick math and that number is a big fat ZERO.

Tell the lawyer what you think!

[Elsimer]

Adam Loewy, the lawyer who determined that $30 million was a good number based on the net worth of MySpace (how much you want to bet mom and teen get five digits tops?) can be found at:

Adam J. Loewy
Firm: Barry & Loewy LLP
Address: 111 Congress Avenue
Suite 400
Austin, TX 78701

Phone: (800) 892-5044 (Toll Free)
Fax: (800) 892-5044
E-mail: aloewy@barryloewy.com
Web site: http://www.barryloewy.com/

misleading summary

[nuzak]

Whereas it currently reads:

      "A 14-year-old is suing MySpace ...",

it should read:

      "An opportunist shyster is capitalizing on a 14-year-old's misfortunes to shake down MySpace ..."

Simple Math

[Anonymous Coward]

As my favorite cartoon characters say - You are a God-D**n Idiot. Math equation: Take your age - subtract 10 = Were you smart back then...No you were a God-D**n Idiot.

So by my calculations her parents should know she is an idiot and therefore should have access to ALL of her online passwords and not let her use the internet out of direct sight or at night. They should regularly discuss the dangers of being a young woman (so I don't get flamed for being sexist - OR YOUNG MAN) and being part of online social sites. What the hell are parents thinking (any parents) when they dont check their minor children's email or take the steps to monitor online activities.

A bit harsh - sure - but that is why your parents. Your not there to be friends (until they are older) your there to be the parents, the "responsible" seasoned authority figures meant to provide guidance since you know how much of an idiot you were back then. You are supposed to try with every breath you have to make sure that the while not sheltering your child(ren) from the world you make sure they have the knowledge and confidence they need to take their next independent steps and make the most they can out of their lives.

But - as simple math has proven some people are just God-D**n Idiots...

Everyone is a victoim, and someone must pay

[olivercromwell]

Oprah, lawyers, and socialists have all been telling us for years that everyone is a victim of something, and someone must pay. Because MySpace let the girl use its service, and let a person they ought to have known would turn out to be a rapist use their service, the girl is ENTITLED to compensation. To think otherwise is mere silliness.

Re:Everyone is a victoim, and someone must pay

[MozillaMike]

Mere sillyness? First of all myspace has to be the biggest waste of time for people, specifically teens, I've ever seen. Secondly users are supposed to be 18 when they register. And Thirdly, YOU'RE ON MYSPACE. Did she not expect there would be weird people on the internet? It's not myspace's fault that she used their service and that she was dumb enough to talk to somebody she didn't know! Why do people feel that it's always someone else's fault for their own stupdiy! It makes me sick to think of what people will sue over next.

Re:Everyone is a victoim, and someone must pay

[spx]

But it started, when the parents let her use the computer.

Re:Whoring your children

[SanityInAnarchy]

In the US (well except maybe parts of the south) being told your 14 year old daughter is having sex is horrible.

Funny, I was thinking just the opposite -- maybe in some parts of the south, parents really believe their children will be virgins till they're 18.

gotcha, so by your definition: the soldiers in Iraq who were abducted, and their dead bodys found...

Stop right there. Murder's illegal, and so is suicide, so it really doesn't matter if the murder was consensual -- remember Kevorkian? So yes, death is fundamentally different.

PR Stunt by Homeland Security

[Gary Destruction]

I think this was a PR stunt by Homeland Security. It was done to convince people that the Internet should not be anonymous. They probably had a detective pose as a 14 year old.

Re:The bottom line is only the perp is responsible

[ClamIAm]

kids can peek at credit card #s in their parents' wallet or purse, or swipe a carbon from the trash at a restaurant, same as other scam artists

I had a debit card at 15. My brother (who is 16) has a bank card that works as a credit card. They aren't that great at verifying age.

what would be right

[r00t]

First, we check bone structure in the young lady. (X-ray of a joint, to see the growth plates) If she's not full size, it's a NO. Get a certificate from the hospital attesting to this. Women older than 25 are exempt.

Second, an accountant verifies that a family can be supported without government help.

Third, each party reviews the other's medical and financial records. This obviously includes the existance of children, wives, and ex-wives. Do this in front of a Notary Public or similar, to record the fact that the records were fully reviewed and understood.

Fourth, get married. Emancipation is automatic as needed.

Good for you if you can manage this at age 12. :-)

protect yourself online

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if anyone has heard of this, but there is a new service out there that gives out fake phone numbers that you can give to your myspace, facebook, match.com, and other "online friends", that you then can control where your fake number is forwarded to (home, cell, work, etc.) It's just an extra measure I take as a young female searching for the right mate. The site is www.safercalls.com , it works for me. Maybe if parents should signup their childeren for this service.

Welcome to the real world, kid

[RockDoctor]

Subject says it all really.

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Re:How do we protect teens from their own ignoranc

[Anonymous Coward]

like vulcans, who have an age of majority around 50. I'm so, so sorry for knowing that. I'm posting this anonymously, out of shame. -xilmaril

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its interesting ...

[zen-theorist]

... how 750+ slashdotters seem to know a whole bunch more than average joe about rape, sexual assault, freud, sexual predator mentality and so on.

if you're not getting it, read up about it!

True Stella Award nominee

[FishinDave]

I predict this one will soon show up on www.stellaawards.com.

MySpace.com and similar venues need an indemnification clause in their TOS. If you don't read and heed all the warnings about offline encounters, you can't blame us for what happens.

I'd go one further and make users liable for - oh, say $30 million - if they file a suit in violation of that provision.

here in england

[petermgreen]

if your on the ball and rich you can your driving license almost as soon as you turn 17, you just have to learn on private land.

though you are right most people don't actually pass until arround 18, from 17 however they can however drive with someone suitable (had a full license for at least 5 years iirc) in the front passenger seat and may well own or have access to a car (and lets face it drunks aren't the best for following laws).