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Not that it's an exact comparison to the mini, but it's in the same ballpark.

As the article points out the Mac Mini isn't a new idea but I see it as a better fit for the Mac community than the PC community.

My moms small business has several Dell SX270 small form factor desktops (similar to this) and they work well.

Decent little boxes, basically uses laptop technology with an external power supply, even uses notebook CD/DVD/Floppy drive modules, letting us do thing like buying only one floppy drive module for the whole office.

Upgrading the RAM is easy as is relplacing the hard drive though you couldn't add a second, let along a third hard drive. And of course there are no PCI or other expansion slots, which is fine since all the components are built in and if you ever did need to add something it's probably available as USB.

It wouldn't be a good choice for me or most geeks but for a lot of people who don't tinker with their PC beyond upgrading the RAM and maybe HD it fits the bill well.

They don't seem to be too bad, but they aren't marketed very much by dell, and they probably aren't as high of quality as the Mac's. The only bad thing is the external power supply is rather large.

Dell Workstation with Linux pre-installed

You must have CompleteCare

Dell Dimension 3000. So it's not that "cute" but for its $499, it includes a monitor. Wouldn't be shocked if Dell makes a cheaper computer without a monitor compete with the mini.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Dell Business PC with Microsoft Windows XP Pro and no office software at all.

if you actually want to use those 19 inches of screen real estate with, say, a higher resolution (say, 1600x1280) you're still looking at just under a grand.

Dell is selling a 1600x1200 20.1" LCD for $599. Details here.

Finding a cheap, high-performance CRT is definitely easier. But if you know what you want in an LCD and you're ready to pounce when it goes on sale, there are great LCD deals are out there.

I've been in charge of buying flat panels for my company for the last few years. In that time, 20" LCDs from Dell have gone from $2000 to $599. In the same time, high-end Apple LCDs have gone from 22" 1600x1024 for $4000 to 30" 2560x1600 for $3000 (plus a $600 video card to run it.) If you haven't seen any drops, you haven't been looking very hard. As for your last point, I can go to CompUSA and buy a 17" LCD for $279 or a 15" laptop for $649.

Central Texas residents outside the Austin city limits can also participate in the program by dropping off their unwanted computers at any of the 37 Goodwill locations in Central Texas.

Optiplex

HP Recalls

Dell Recalls

Make sure never to buy from them either, since aparently a company admitting a problem and fixing it for free is too much for you to deal with. While your at it, make sure to sell any vehicle you own, as it is likely that company has also issued recall notices on some of their products. Next up, make sure to avoid the grocery stores. They have recall notices posted all the time too.

Using a longer time period even out outliers.

So was the Q1 2000 to Q1 2001 decline the outlier, or were the three years of increase the outliers (based on something other than personal opinion, of course)?

How much do you think Dell has grown over the same period?

Dell predicted a 40% increase in Q4 2000 (equivalent to Q1 2001 for Apple) from the quarter a year ago.

They predicted a 50% increase in Q4 2001.

They announced a 25% increase in Q4 2002.

They didn't give an immediately obvious number for an overall increase in shipments in Q4 2003 - it's probably somewhere between the 20% in "the Americas" (presumably meaning "Western Hemisphere") and 30% in EMEA and Asia-Pacific ("Eastern Hemisphere").

Their Q4 2004 numbers aren't out yet, at least not in the form of a press release.

Using a longer time period even out outliers.

So was the Q1 2000 to Q1 2001 decline the outlier, or were the three years of increase the outliers (based on something other than personal opinion, of course)?

How much do you think Dell has grown over the same period?

Dell predicted a 40% increase in Q4 2000 (equivalent to Q1 2001 for Apple) from the quarter a year ago.

They predicted a 50% increase in Q4 2001.

They announced a 25% increase in Q4 2002.

They didn't give an immediately obvious number for an overall increase in shipments in Q4 2003 - it's probably somewhere between the 20% in "the Americas" (presumably meaning "Western Hemisphere") and 30% in EMEA and Asia-Pacific ("Eastern Hemisphere").

Their Q4 2004 numbers aren't out yet, at least not in the form of a press release.

Using a longer time period even out outliers.

So was the Q1 2000 to Q1 2001 decline the outlier, or were the three years of increase the outliers (based on something other than personal opinion, of course)?

How much do you think Dell has grown over the same period?

Dell predicted a 40% increase in Q4 2000 (equivalent to Q1 2001 for Apple) from the quarter a year ago.

They predicted a 50% increase in Q4 2001.

They announced a 25% increase in Q4 2002.

They didn't give an immediately obvious number for an overall increase in shipments in Q4 2003 - it's probably somewhere between the 20% in "the Americas" (presumably meaning "Western Hemisphere") and 30% in EMEA and Asia-Pacific ("Eastern Hemisphere").

Their Q4 2004 numbers aren't out yet, at least not in the form of a press release.

Using a longer time period even out outliers.

So was the Q1 2000 to Q1 2001 decline the outlier, or were the three years of increase the outliers (based on something other than personal opinion, of course)?

How much do you think Dell has grown over the same period?

Dell predicted a 40% increase in Q4 2000 (equivalent to Q1 2001 for Apple) from the quarter a year ago.

They predicted a 50% increase in Q4 2001.

They announced a 25% increase in Q4 2002.

They didn't give an immediately obvious number for an overall increase in shipments in Q4 2003 - it's probably somewhere between the 20% in "the Americas" (presumably meaning "Western Hemisphere") and 30% in EMEA and Asia-Pacific ("Eastern Hemisphere").

Their Q4 2004 numbers aren't out yet, at least not in the form of a press release.

"NOTE: Dell does not ship any product with spyware included or installed."

But I'm sure they're lying. *rolleyes*

You can a newer Dell 3000 (the one referenced in the shootout was a 2400) with an 80GB drive for $429 from Dell right now with a 2 year on site warranty and free shipping. Considering this fact, I find it hard to believe the reviewer made an honest attempt to truely compare the offerings. In fact, you can get almost the same system I referenced above from Dell with a 15in LCD for $564. Subtract the LCD, add a DVD and or speakers and it is still much cheaper. Links here.

Dell has deals cheaper then the one in the comparison. This one is only $429. 80GB HD and 512MB ram.
I could care less what anyone buys but in every single Apple computer article that mentions price, people compare prices of Dell to Apple and always seem to quote Dell prices that are always higher then what you can get from Dell directly. I do not know if this is on purpose or people just don't realize Dell has deals that rotate. I do not own a Dell but I have recently got out of the white box building side business and I point people to Dell instead. It saves me the hassle of providing free lifetime support. Of the 30 or so people I have quided in this direction, no one has been displeased at all with the quality of what they recieved. I personally think Dell support is lame but on par with every single tech support center I have ever called for anything.

But, most importantly, what tasks can you, as a user, do with a $500 PC that you can't with the $500 Mac?

Dimension 5000 is already for sale as a BTX system. Check out the product views and look at the motherboard.

Dimension 5000 is already for sale as a BTX system. Check out the product views and look at the motherboard.

every (and i mean every) MMORPG released has a free month-long trial and WoW is no exception. moreover, the standard edition of the game is only 49.99.

mmm....well we bought some nice Dell boxen, and put Debian on em. Theres a lot of very nice sites to help:

http://wiki.osuosl.org/display/LNX/Debian+on+Dell+ Servers

http://linux.dell.com/

The only thing I wish debian had was nptl support as we run a j2ee server, but I guess well see it supported in sarge - just have to wait until sarge is stable :)

and I just bought a brand new Dell UltraSharp 2001FP 20 inch LCD monitor about 20 minutes ago... http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a spx?sku=320-1578&c=us&l=en&cs=19&category_id=2999& page=external

Poor choice for an analogy. Dell may not support questions about your home installation, but they do sell them like that.

Argh, where to start....

You can barely get a Dell PC with no OS for less than $500,

Really?

... It doesn't exist, and neither does your idea ...

Contrary to popular belief, if someone has an idea that you don't like, it still exists, even if you don't want it to.

On slashdot ... few really know nothing about business at all.

What are you trying to say here? That most on slashdot know something about business? Given the tone of the rest of your post, that doesn't sound like what you are trying to say.

Everything around you exists because someone made money by producing it

Okay, I get it now. I've always wondered why there's air and trees and stuff.

If it doesn't make money (or convince someone with a lot of money that it will), you aren't going to see it on the market, period. If you think this isn't the case, stick your nuts out there and try to break the trend. You'll fail, I promise.

I heard about this guy named Linus Torvalds. He wrote this thing called an "operating system" for computers because he thought it would be fun. And hey, he made money (along with thousands of other people) and that wasn't even his original plan! Holy crap!

P.S. Demand for my nuts is so high, I think I will be sticking them out there into the market soon.

DELL is still running 'humorous' tv ads where a guy in bed
asks a Dell rep if their tech support will answer on various holidays
or after locust swarms (run laughtrack) or tsunamis (insert guffaws).

--
It's a joke when Dell reps talk about staying open on
Presidents Day, Columbus Day, and Cinco de Mayo.
Funny how Dell doesn't say Christmas & Labor Day.

That's not true. Some laptops use a Mobile Pentium IV (upt to 3.2 Ghz w/533Mhz FSB), while others use a plain Pentium IV (up to 3.4 Ghz w/800 Mhz FSB). See Pentium IV vs. Mobile Pentium IV.

I do agree with you about the Pentium-M, though.

That's not true. Some laptops use a Mobile Pentium IV (upt to 3.2 Ghz w/533Mhz FSB), while others use a plain Pentium IV (up to 3.4 Ghz w/800 Mhz FSB). See Pentium IV vs. Mobile Pentium IV.

I do agree with you about the Pentium-M, though.

I agree, I don't like cube cases at all, and especially not for a home entertainment setup. Stand alone devices look great and work well, but there aren't any that do everything in one box (DVD, hard disk, DTV card) and they don't give you full control over how you use it.

I'm using an Antec Overture for my HTPC. It's takes a full size motherboard and PCI cards, but still looks really good. It matches perfectly with my reciever (it's black and silver too).

As for a workstation, I think the small, thin PCs look the best (like this,) but they're usually brand name and have poor expandability and upgradability.

Well that's odd, because I found this one here:

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features. aspx/featured_dp_dotw_dimen1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

For $619, with a 15" flat panel and 512MB RAM.

After looking at Dell's current selection of Home & Home Desktops, do you mean the Dimention 2400 (not 4200)? Not only does the 2400 lack an AGP slot, but the chipset (and integrated graphics) is two generations old (Intel 845 chipset and Intel Extreme 3D graphics). In fact, they don't even offer a desktop with an AGP slot anymore (they've moved on to PCI Express 16x slots).

However, I mostly agree with your comment. Your supposedly Informative Parent comment claims "comparable" (in tech specs) Dell desktops are more expensive than Apple eMacs. It's not even close. The cheapest Dell desktop (on their Home & Home Office site) with a graphics slot is the Dimension 4700, which has a PCI Express 16x slot (much better than an AGP slot). Furthermore, the 4700 has Intel's new integrated graphics (GMA 900), which is DirectX 9 compatible (Radeon 9200 is only Direct X 8 compatible). Since the 4700 has PCI Express graphics and 16x slot (vs AGP non-upgradeable graphics), PCI Express 1x slots (vs no PCI slots), 800MHz front side bus (vs 167MHz bus), dual-channel 400MHz DDR2 memory (vs single-channel 333MHz DDR memory), and serial-ATA (vs IDE), I think the 4700 is way more advanced (in tech specs) than the ancient eMac architecture.

The cheapest eMac costs $800. A "comparable" Dimension 4700 (with 17" CRT) costs $787. And that's on a current architecture with expandability. I know Apple has OS X, good customer support, style, etc. But the grandparent comment said similarly configured Dells cost more than eMacs.

Here's the configuration I got for $787:

Pentium® 4 Processor 520 with HT Technology (2.80GHz, 800 FSB, 1MB L2 cache)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
FREE UPGRADE! 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 400MHz (2x256M)
4 DIMM slots
40GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Single Drive: 48x CD-RW / DVD-ROM Combo Drive
17 in (16 in viewable,.27dp) E773c CRT Monitor
Integrated Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 900
Integrated 5.1 Channel Audio
IEEE 1394 Adapter
Dell A215 Speakers
Dell Quietkey® Keyboard
Dell 2-button scroll mouse
Microsoft® Works Suite - Includes Word 2002, Streets & Trips 2004
Dell Media Experience
Dell Jukebox - easy-to-use music player and CD burning software
56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet

Nobody's gonna read this comment anyway.

Dell Support pages: they have very useful tools that are only supported with IE (e.g. "Find my service tag", "get current configuration").

Actually, the biggest pain is that I cannot even access the original system configuration without IE (at least not at Dell France where I bought my computer).

There's a patch available here

Not very cheap considering this week silly sales at dell get you a laptop for $549. It may not be high quality, but I'll take a laptop over a desktop most days.

I'm hoping more tech-savy slashdot readers can help me understand a couple things. I read cringely's article, got interested by the PowerPC servers that IBM are selling, looked at them on IBM's site, and was surprised that the cheapest one was $5000, for a 1.5 Ghz CPU, 512 memory and 36 GB SCSI HD.

Can someone explain to me how this is competitive? I understand that mhz isn't everything, and PPC is 64 bit, but for that much money I can buy Five Rackmount Dell 2.4 Ghz Xeon pizza boxes with similar specs, or a single Dual Xeon Tower with 6x73 GB SCSI in Raid 5 config, 2 GB Ram, & Tape backup. Perhaps the best comparison is an AMD Opteron 1U with 1 GB memory, only I can buy 3 Opteron servers.

I'm no fan of Dell, but I would choose them (or HP, etc) over an IBM PPC box for $5k. If you are someone who would chose the IBM PPC, I'd like to know your thoughts and what you see as advantages, given the price. Thanks

I'm hoping more tech-savy slashdot readers can help me understand a couple things. I read cringely's article, got interested by the PowerPC servers that IBM are selling, looked at them on IBM's site, and was surprised that the cheapest one was $5000, for a 1.5 Ghz CPU, 512 memory and 36 GB SCSI HD.

Can someone explain to me how this is competitive? I understand that mhz isn't everything, and PPC is 64 bit, but for that much money I can buy Five Rackmount Dell 2.4 Ghz Xeon pizza boxes with similar specs, or a single Dual Xeon Tower with 6x73 GB SCSI in Raid 5 config, 2 GB Ram, & Tape backup. Perhaps the best comparison is an AMD Opteron 1U with 1 GB memory, only I can buy 3 Opteron servers.

I'm no fan of Dell, but I would choose them (or HP, etc) over an IBM PPC box for $5k. If you are someone who would chose the IBM PPC, I'd like to know your thoughts and what you see as advantages, given the price. Thanks

Available worldwide

Someone please tell me why this is a) news, b) a good deal?

Y'know, you can buy a PC with FreeDOS installed today, in the U.S., from Dell. FreeDOS is there to meet their "preloaded OS" requirement. At the same time, it assures that they never have to support it, because nobody is really going to use it. My $350 Dell is happily running Gentoo, no Microsoft tax paid.

Dell Just Started Selling Linux! And they still won't do a workstation!!!

Dell has been selling various versions of Red Hat Linux and has had a close relationship with Red Hat for many years now.

Dell does kinda/sorta/maybe support other distros.

Check it out: linux.dell.com
Along with Red Hat they list various flavors of SuSE, Debian, and Slack here.

This part of the site has an interesting link site that says Dell is partnering with Novell to offer SuSE.
Old news maybe to slashdot, it's dated October 27, 2004.

Dell does kinda/sorta/maybe support other distros.

Check it out: linux.dell.com
Along with Red Hat they list various flavors of SuSE, Debian, and Slack here.

This part of the site has an interesting link site that says Dell is partnering with Novell to offer SuSE.
Old news maybe to slashdot, it's dated October 27, 2004.

Dell does kinda/sorta/maybe support other distros.

Check it out: linux.dell.com
Along with Red Hat they list various flavors of SuSE, Debian, and Slack here.

This part of the site has an interesting link site that says Dell is partnering with Novell to offer SuSE.
Old news maybe to slashdot, it's dated October 27, 2004.

Dell does kinda/sorta/maybe support other distros.

Check it out: linux.dell.com
Along with Red Hat they list various flavors of SuSE, Debian, and Slack here.

This part of the site has an interesting link site that says Dell is partnering with Novell to offer SuSE.
Old news maybe to slashdot, it's dated October 27, 2004.

... give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program.

Now Dell wants to act as if it is a friendly member of the Linux community and suggest what the pricing should be? Hey! Violating the GPL is not what a member of the Linux community should ever do. Doing it for over a year and a half is a clear indication that Dell doesn't give a damn about the linux community or the licensing terms they have choosen.

Bottom line: Dell has terminated the grants of the GPL by violating the license. Regards of what price Red Hat chooses, Dell has no legal rights to be redistributing the Linux kernel who's license they decided to actively (and continues to) violate.

I take it your referring to this Dell server? Its not too bad with a P4 2.8 and 256MB DDR2. I've seen these as low as $250 after rebates. Sometimes the PowerEdge SC420 is cheaper than the equivelent desktop from Dell, sans OS.

You cant get the kind of market share Microsoft has with windows when charging for updates. And once you have that market share you cant start charging for updates and keep it. Not only that, its almost as if its Microsoft's duty to keep supporting their server OS. When did NT4 support stop, or is it still around. I know you can pay and get support. Just like its their duty to release XP SP2 that works with pirated CD keys. Aside from switching everyone to a more secure operating system, its just safer for the Internet as a whole for Microsoft to continue business as usual when it comes to updates.

Off to load up Windows Server 2003 SP1 RC1 and see what it breaks :-)!

Dell is very careful to establish close relationships with their suppliers. This helps them control costs. Few things inflate costs more quickly than expanding the matrix of available OS offerings. Every new OS has to be completely tested for compatibility. The testing and development costs go crazy.

Just look at this $300 rock bottom server from Dell. Three years of Linux costs $800, over twice the cost of the box! I can buy Windows XP Home and run Apache on it for half that cost, and I get free security updates for life. Basically, Linux needs to compete on the bottom line. The problem is probably too many high paid developers.