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1) Player Cally starts the EVE Investment Bank in early 2006
2) A lot of drama goes on in the mean time with people sticking up for the EIB and others calling it a scam
3) Cally's owner decides it's been long enough and cleans out the bank, netting around 700bil in ISK and another 100bil in assets
That's really all the high points.

Not if that level 20 captain knows just where to point that laser to deal the most damage because of his advanced knowledge of ship hulls and weaknesses, or the way his technology operates. On top of which, there is the human (player, not character) skill fudge factor that must be in any game, or it becomes boring very fast.

EON operates on a two tiered model, ships for options, but characters (pods) for skill advancement. A character with very crummy skills and a good ship will no doubt lose to a character with a less than average ship and very good skills in combat.

The ships require some sort of grind (or getting lucky pirating) to acquire, but skills are relatively free to learn. (Barring a few notable exceptions.) Not only which, skills are based on character longevity so it gives longtime players an advantage over short-timers (griefers, and noobs.) Blah, more rants. Eve did it pretty well, so did vendetta, both I play in linux. (Eve with cedega, vendetta has a native client.)

There are good Sci-fi MMO's they only cater to those who want them tho, and it seems there isn't as big a draw as to Fantasy MMO's (can you say girrrlz?) Blame it on the lack of targetted engineering education to women, but if you can only hope to target half the population (mainly men, 4-8% women) with your ads, how can you expect to expand much?

Yeah argue all you want, these games are sausage fests way more than even WoW, and that's saying something.

MMORPG games that are Sci-Fi based have worked out many times in the past! Examples to back that up are

Earth and Beyond (shut down when EA aquired the company leading that): Had an advanced crafting system that was ahead of it's time and was a primarily based space fighter! http://enb.rpgplanet.gamespy.com/ (Most of EnB sites are now down.)

Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided: Had several ranged profession (carbineer, pistoleer, rifleman, bounty hunter, smuggler) as well as melee professions, with a space based expansion that came later on and an interesting take on crafting classes. The game is now in ruins though, the development team that was put in place to develop the product was new to the MMORPG world and throughout the games life it has seemed to be in 'beta' because of that. www.starwarsgalaxies.com

PlanetSide: A complete FPS battlefield using ranged weapons for a majority of the combat (aka you can use a knife) www.planetside.com

Eve Online: I'll let the site speak for itself http://www.eve-online.com/

RF Online: http://www.codemasters.com/rfonline/news.php?theme =bellato

So, can you really say fantasy > Sci-Fi?

Currently, there is no need for Shards. Server does fine most of the time. Recently, there was even a battle with over 600 involved in one system at the same time. Alot of the hub systems even hold 700 without too much problems. As long as everyone doesn't try and crowd the hub systems and spread out a bit, I rarely have any reason to visit these areas other than to do some shopping for new toys every few months. If anyone is intreasted, they are doing a 5vs5 pvp tournement between all the alliances on the weekends during the summer and broadcasting it live. Here. Also, here are some community created videos, mostly some battles. That being said, EVE is a great game if you like sci-fi space type stuff and have some time to kill. Although it sometimes suffers from lag in busy systems, no need to shard at this point. Give it a try and dont hang in the hubs.

Currently, there is no need for Shards. Server does fine most of the time. Recently, there was even a battle with over 600 involved in one system at the same time. Alot of the hub systems even hold 700 without too much problems. As long as everyone doesn't try and crowd the hub systems and spread out a bit, I rarely have any reason to visit these areas other than to do some shopping for new toys every few months. If anyone is intreasted, they are doing a 5vs5 pvp tournement between all the alliances on the weekends during the summer and broadcasting it live. Here. Also, here are some community created videos, mostly some battles. That being said, EVE is a great game if you like sci-fi space type stuff and have some time to kill. Although it sometimes suffers from lag in busy systems, no need to shard at this point. Give it a try and dont hang in the hubs.

Join us, and freedom from realtime treadmilling will be yours...

http://www.eve-online.com/

The missing link is to the related eve video forums. There are many videos which highlight different aspects of the game along with video critque and style tips. Good fun.

A cool Icelandic company, CCP, has created a game that exemplifies your concept.
EVE Online takes a basic set of concepts (space, ships, weapons, mining, market), and allows the player to expand on it. Al most all of the "News" ingame is player-related, and things such as espionage, trickery, and invention are allowed and even encouraged in the world. There are no classes, no limits on what a character can be/can't be.

About your gripe, there are several responses from people that have no problem with it, and prefer it that way.

1) When you fly a ship there's so much that you can do, and no more, so the rest of the skill points are "wasted" (not used).

So, when a veteran from the beginning is flying an interceptor (fast but small ship) what matters is the skills used by the ship and the modules, but not, for example, the industrial skills.

2) Player skill is much more important than character skill.

If you fit your ship incorrectly you can die if fighting a newbie that knows how to fit. If you fight aggainst the odds, because you ignore them, you can die. If you transport something really expensive in a ship that can be easily destroyed, it might be destroyed (even if it causes the destruction of the agressor) just for the agressor's friends to get the contents of your ship.

3) A group is better than an individual.

So, a group of newbies can join and kill a veteran, no problem. How many level 10 would be necesary to kill a level 60 in any other game? There's a new aliance, called GoonSwarm, that is about 9 months old that is manily comprised of people coming from somethingawful. Mostly they are newbies, from these 9 months that it's been functional, and they are attacking veterans, and winning.

4) Most veterans are not so veteran as you might think.

From http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid =310
-----
between 0 and 1 million skillpoints: 358353
between 1 and 2 million skillpoints: 14035
between 2 and 3 million skillpoints: 8149
between 3 and 4 million skillpoints: 5826
between 4 and 5 million skillpoints: 4696
between 5 and 10 million skillpoints: 14859
between 10 and 15 million skillpoints: 9875
between 15 and 20 million skillpoints: 7861
between 20 and 25 million skillpoints: 6194
between 25 and 30 million skillpoints: 4373
between 30 and 35 million skillpoints: 2568
between 35 and 40 million skillpoints: 1313
between 40 and 45 million skillpoints: 257
between 45 and 50 million skillpoints: 4
between 50 and 55 million skillpoints: 7
between 55 and 60 million skillpoints: 1

Not as many high skillpoint players after 3 years as you would have thought. We should also remember, that time is in favor of new players, the average EVE player only stays for 7 months.

However, this doesn't say very much about the character behind the skillpoints, since skillpoints are quite relative, some fields have more higher rank skills than others and some are simply hard to train for a lot of players.

As an example, a person might be really good in leadership, but that person would have spent a lot of time training that ability if he has low Charisma. The next person might have high Charisma and can easily train the leadership skills, but at a faster rate. Therefore, both end up having the same amount of skillpoints, but one spent 1 month to achieve the ability, the other spent 3.

So, in a way, does the number of skillpoints really matter?
----

5) Skillpoints are used to diversify, because there's a limit to the growth of each skill.

Once you reach level 5 in a skill that's as good as you, or anybody else, can get at it. Yes, there are suporting skills and all that, but, in fact, level 4 is almost as good as level 5 (mostly a 5% increase) and going from 4 to 5 takes more than going to 0 to 4.

So, after all I prefer this kind of gameplay than the level grind, and think that anything that would give an avantage to playing newbies versus casual veterans will give an avantage to playing veterans vs the rest (skills increasing on usage is being proposed by a player on a monthly base, and it was like this in the beggining, and players abused it).

Have fun whatever you do.

Hit the EVE site and go to their movies section. All of the videos show actual gameplay, though frequently the interface is removed (key combo in the game). There are segments in most videos that show everything.

Alternately, this forum on the site, which is freely accessible without requiring an account, has links to a ton of player created videos.

To be honest, a big fat SO WHAT.... truth is, SOE screwed the game over so hardcore that even die-hard star wars fans have already moved on. It's splendid that they're creating an emulator, kudos, BUT I seriously doubt they'll see the fan support required to grow further than a curiosity to gamers.

Those of you weeping over this, try http://www.eve-online.com/ Sure it's nothing like SWG, but it's a MMORPG that actually seems to give a damn about it's userbase and isn't catering to the largest $$ segment of the population

To be honest, a big fat SO WHAT.... truth is, SOE screwed the game over so hardcore that even die-hard star wars fans have already moved on. It's splendid that they're creating an emulator, kudos, BUT I seriously doubt they'll see the fan support required to grow further than a curiosity to gamers.

Those of you weeping over this, try http://www.eve-online.com/ Sure it's nothing like SWG, but it's a MMORPG that actually seems to give a damn about it's userbase and isn't catering to the largest $$ segment of the population.... Not that I'm bitter or anything! (Rest In Peace SWG.... Rest in Peace).

Eve Online

I went as far as nabbing a 14 day account and trying to play... then I realized I simply do not have the time to play an MMO. More's the pitty, it looks like fun.

http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/apr01.as p

You might be surprised to know that something like this exists in Eve-Online, a space based MMORPG. Almost the entire economy is player based and fed. The ship i bought was manufactured by some guy who had to buy a blueprint copy from a Scientist player and then buy minerals from a Miner player. If a small group of players artifically increase the price of something they control, the local economy will feel it. Likewise, some pieces of equipment and ships are so impossible to make without help, it forces people into groups to achieve a goal.

Now i realize this isn't exactly what you were looking for, Trees can be cut down and planted or whatnot. But it's the same idea. If your Corporation has a starbase to mine a rare metal from a moon that nobody can get anywhere else, you have a lot of power over the local ecosystem.

The best part about the game is just flying around attacking pirates or whatever. If you're not into the economy much, it seems more like the weather. "Why TF are missiles so damn expensive today?!?"

And the review picked a good game to test on. On a decent system EVE can be strikingly beautiful. If an MB can play that at all, it's "good enough" for 3D gaming although it's just as well it wasn't tested on Doom 3 or Half-Life 2.

Try EVE Online, plenty of space combat, trading, etc. A lot of depth in the gameplay, and a whole lot of depth in the story.

Eve Online is creating a chinese shard to cater to this group. I doubt it will stop the chinese macro miners, but it might. Especially if their country blocks access to Tranquility. I mean, yeah yeah freedom of speech, but they're driving down the price of omber.

This will mean that Eve can no longer say they're only one server... but, still. 25,000+ people on the same server is nothing to sneeze at. Go invest in some RAMSAN's, blizard!

~W

Also note that besides FFXI along with World of Warcraft and Runescape are the only games still without a downward trend.

You're forgetting a small, but very well made game called EVE Online. Its numbers have been growning steadily as well.

Your website requires me to disable images or override your CSS to be remotely legible. Don't use dark backgrounds.

You mean like this? Really, the 'bright text on dark background' format is becoming nearly as common as the more traditional 'dark on bright'. Though I think this is mostly a matter of personal preference.

You should check out Eve-Online.

Ever played Eve Online? http://www.eve-online.com/

This technology has already been put to use in a commercial environment, and has given outstanding performance from what I've seen. The game EVE Online http://www.eve-online.com/ has already done this with their clustered servers and greatly reduced the lag. Keep in mind that this is a game where there is only a single universe (No shards or other servers) and they quite often push over 20,000 simultaneously logged in accounts at a time.

When placed in the right environment, this technology just screams. A good example would be for huge database operations that have hundreds if not thousands of concurrent accesses. The databases that maintain the pay information for the US Military come to mind easily.

EVE Online apparently went through 11 development cycles, with several complete re-codes, over a period of a few years. Their graphics / MMO engine was so ambitious at the time that the developers couldn't do it one big go, so they did it in numerous steps. For them, it paid off.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/?type= 3
http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/Defaul t.asp?a=download&vid=41

EVE Online apparently went through 11 development cycles, with several complete re-codes, over a period of a few years. Their graphics / MMO engine was so ambitious at the time that the developers couldn't do it one big go, so they did it in numerous steps. For them, it paid off.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/?type= 3
http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/Defaul t.asp?a=download&vid=41

EVE Online (http://www.eve-online.com/) probably has the largest consistent world. It's not as BIG player-wise as WoW, but we like it that way anyway. And it's in space, not fantasy. But aside from that, there's lots of fun things to do, even though the game does have a bit of a learning curve.

Players can give out unlimited free 2-week trials to other people too, so if anyone wants one, drop a note to ja!de@cris==tal @t gmail.com. (remove non-letter characters to get a valid address)

I believe EVE Online is the record holder, with 23,811 simultaneous players recorded at 20:34 on 27 Feb 2006.

You should take a look at Eve Online. It's a space-based MMOG, completly differnt than WoW. But it's a blast. There's no skill-grinding like in other games. Skills are learned in real time, whether you're online or not. Going from Level 0 to Level 1 in a skill usually takes abuot 15 mins, but going from 4 to 5 (the highest level) often takes days, up to 2 weeks for some skills. So, you can start learning some powerful skill, go on vacation, and your character keeps learning while you're gone. Being online playing does not affect skill development in any way. You just need to log in to start learning a new skill when one is finished.
And, of course, to actually play ;)

Also, the game has a smaller, more mature player-base than the more popular MMOGs. You rarely see 14-yr-old "l33t n00bs" like in WoW or EQ. Check it out: http://www.eve-online.com/ The game universe is huge. There's over 5000 solar systems, and they keep expanding it. I've been playing for a few months and have only scratched the surface (granted, I don't play every day).

You should take a look at Eve Online. It's a space-based MMOG, completly differnt than WoW. But it's a blast. There's no skill-grinding like in other games. Skills are learned in real time, whether you're online or not. Going from Level 0 to Level 1 in a skill usually takes abuot 15 mins, but going from 4 to 5 (the highest level) often takes days, up to 2 weeks for some skills. So, you can start learning some powerful skill, go on vacation, and your character keeps learning while you're gone. Being online playing does not affect skill development in any way. You just need to log in to start learning a new skill when one is finished.
And, of course, to actually play ;)

Also, the game has a smaller, more mature player-base than the more popular MMOGs. You rarely see 14-yr-old "l33t n00bs" like in WoW or EQ. Check it out: http://www.eve-online.com/ The game universe is huge. There's over 5000 solar systems, and they keep expanding it. I've been playing for a few months and have only scratched the surface (granted, I don't play every day).

Has anyone thought about this. Vanguard is aiming at a diffrent group of MMO gamers. Heck look at EVE, they broke 100k accounts recently and average around 23 - 25k people on their server at one time. http://www.eve-online.com/ - 100k accounts front page news. They are not aiming to overtake the entire MMO market... just what some people have been wanting for awhile. A MMO thats not too easy but offers a real challenge.

"Yes, I've tried more modern versions; the graphics are much more realistic, but there's still really no plot."

What a absolute rubbish! Tell me Halo didn't have a good plot, or Half life 1 and 2? Check this out http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/

"Why not, for example, a space exploration game -- concentrating on the science, economics, and logistics involved, instead of the usual shoot-the-evil-green-aliens theme?"

http://www.eve-online.com/

Eve also sports an intricate system for creating items. To make an item you need to acquire a blueprint. Blueprints are sold in 1 of 2 varieties: blueprint originals (BPOs) and blueprint copies (BPCs). BPOs allow you to create an unlimited number of items, as well as BPCs. BPCs allow you to create a set number of items from them. After you have a BP, you have to get the materials. (The process by which you do this is outside the scope of this post.) After that, you rent a factory slot and build the item.

The caveat to all of this is that everything in EVE requires skills, and skills take a while to train. Getting to the point where manufacturing or trading will make you millions takes between 2 weeks and a month, depending on your strategy for making money.

The reason why there is such depth to the trading system is because there is no way to instantly transport materials from one place to another--the need to transport things creates disparities similar to that of the real world--creating a simulated economy which behaves relaistically.

More information available in the Player Guide

The perpetrator was a corp called the Guiding Hand Social Club, the victim was another corp, Ubiqua Seraph and its CEO, Mirial. It got coverage in PC Gamer. The relevant thread chronicling the heist is here.

You can grab it here. The client is free, and if you want to continue it is $30 (american) for a "real" key (30 free days), and something like 13 or 14 bucks a month after that (standard MMO fare)

How they could have completely ignored EVE Online baffles me. It may not be "King of the Hill" in terms of subscription base (though it did just pass 100,000 active subscriptions) but it's certainly one of, if not the most interesting and deep MMOG's out there. You think WoW has a learning curve? Consider how much know-how goes into something as simple as shooting a turret in EVE http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp

From the article:
Imagine Entertainment, the company run by Ron Howard and Brian Grazer that created the TV show 24, has teamed up with producer Jim Banister, Halo creator Alex Seropian, and others to develop a sci-fi reality show called XQuest. If it flies, contestants will occupy a cramped spaceship-like module for a month. Its flight simulators will subject them to rocket-like conditions, including six Gs of thrust. Players will ply the galaxy while following the rough contours of a plot. Outside the ship, online gamers will track the crew's mission and ultimately board their own PC-based spaceships to rendezvous with contestants in shared, simulated space. The next season's cast, in theory, is chosen from those who show the most skill playing the game at home.

That sounds a lot like Eve Online (With a 14 day free trial at the moment) where the point is to fly a spaceship through a galaxy.

Yup, Eve-Online FTW.

Eve is by far the most indepth game yet casual friendly game I've ever played.

An example: Check out the below guide to determine how turret hits are determined.. Oh radians/sec .. transversal velocities. Definately not for the folks that had troubles with attack speed, and attack power.
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp

Nope, I've never had to do that. I've only had to organize and strategize OVER ONE HUNDRED players in an all-out battle for control of an entire Continent! This was just one battle in the course of a single evening's play. The scale of battle in Planetside is simply so far and away greater what you would experience in any RPG, that trying to compare them as you are is nothing short of laughable.

You've obviously never played EVE, have you? I've been in 100 player vs 100 player fleet fights. We were fighting for control of multiple regions of starsystems - perhaps 100 starsystems in total. Newer players can, and do, kill players far older than them all the time - in fact, in general character age is never looked upon for sign of combat capability, its the ship they're in.

Sounds like you need EVE then.

Take a look at EVE Online http://www.eve-online.com/, the learning curve is a bit steep (as with most MMOG's) but there are many people willing to help.

The best way to learn the aspects of any MMOG is to join up with a group of experienced players, like a corporation in EVE or a guild in WoW. You'll pick up on everything much faster than you would trying to solo the learning curve, and you might even learn some tricks to help you get started as a character in the game world.

I agree, there are plenty of smaller MMOG's out there offering very rewarding gameplay. I've been a member of EVE Online http://www.eve-online.com/ since beta over 2 years ago, and although it's classed as an MMORPG it's set in a galaxy of 5000 star systems, featuring hundreds of flyable ships, no sharding, no levelling and player controlled politics so authentic you'd swear it was real life 500 years from now.

I've played my share of fantasy RPG's, but the depth and content EVE brings far surpasses the competition (I couldn't stand two weeks of WoW after playing this). This wasn't supposed to be an all out advertisement, but there are some really great MMOG's out there that people simply don't know about. Not everyone is gung-ho about level grinding and widespread idiocy (a la WoW), and there's hope out there for those people too.

Well, allow me to recommend City of Heroes/City of Villains. This is a Superhero/Villain based game available in two flavors (although they can be installed Symbiotically so you can play both with just one subscription). You do have to pay $15/mo for it, but it meets all your other requirements I think. Its easy to solo, fun to play, can be quite challenging, and most importantly *almost* every type of character can solo more or less (some way better than others mind you), and you can easily jump on, do a mission for 20mins then quit, and feel like you accomplished something. As well, its very newbie friendly - particularly if you find a suitable guild to play with - as characters of every level can effectively play with characters at other levels via the Sidekick/Lackeying system that allows characters to temporarily assume a higher level when partnered with someone - if you did choose to group with people. The game is primarily focused on doing missions, and so combat oriented for much of its content, but it has some great storylines to follow, and the combat system is far superior to most other games IMHO. City of Villains is the newer of the two games, and thus the more evolved. City of Heroes will catch up with future expansions I expect.

For free games, you might be ok with GuildWars. Its a fantasy based combat game with some adventure/roleplaying elements. It is primarily PvP (player versus player oriented) and I personally didn't like it, but it doesn't have any monthly fees and you only need to buy the original boxed edition to play it. As the name suggests though, it may well be group PvP oriented and might not be as welcoming to a casual player. I tried it in beta and disliked it for various reasons, but your mileage may vary.

Links:
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Guild Wars
EVE Online

Hope that helps :)

uh... EVE Online? I played it for about 3 years... it's pretty much what you described, but the skill system is such that you will be very far behind when you start out (there is no cap on anything)

I'm told the economy system is very close to a real-life one and indeed, it's very cleverly made.

it's also frequently updated - there have been at least 4 expansions when I was playing, and there's a new one scheduled.

try it out - you might really enjoy it ^^
~kohaku

Come on, you've never heard of EVE Online (http://www.eve-online.com/)?

Yuo just described Eve Online...

I like the Eve Online model, myself. The game is free to buy and can be downloaded from their site. Monthly fees are about average for the market, and go down if you buy them in larger quantities at a time. You can cancel your subscription and they will hold your character and account for a -very- long time (they did it for me for 8mo) without you paying a nickel, and you can resume with all your cash, skills, items, etc. later, so cancelling a subscription for a 1mo vacation, or while you move if you know it will take a month or two to get the 'net hooked up again, or whatever, and it's all good. Also, the server goes down for 1hr. a day for maintenance, and patches / x-packs are released (free of charge) on a regular basis. That's not to mention that they regularly set records for most players simultaneously playing on a single server, or that they are ranked at the top on mmorpg.com for quite some time. It's an awesome model, and something I would love to see other companies strive to meet.

I know that this was the last drop for me and will make me look for another game.

I prefer the Armageddon battleship to the Apocalypse.

I prefer the Armageddon battleship to the Apocalypse.

Well, not for PS2, but there's something akin to that for online PC:

EVE Online

http://www.eve-online.com/