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FreeDos is a cool project. You should check it out if you haven't yet.

Well, there is always the open source alternative FreeDOS.

And there is always free dos

what about us MS DOS users?

If any of the free *nix operating systems (Linux, FreeBSD) do not fit your needs - you should consider sidegrading over to FreeDOS when MS-DOS becomes more of a hassle than it's worth. Not only is FreeDOS being actively fixed and maintained, but you can also get the source code to fix and add features yourself if you want.

Check the todo list for what they've not yet got finished in their run up to a 1.0 release.

Copyright? There exists DOS other than MS-DOS.

Patent? The Microsoft FAT patents apply only to long file names.

I can't see why that can't be done with a free OS (like a Linux/BSD/etc).

FreeDOS is capable of running most BIOS upgrade programs without any changes.

A motherboard manufacturer could easily package up a FreeDOS boot disk (and/or ISO image) which runs the BIOS update. A BIOS update is probably not something you want to do when using a multitasking OS - if the OS makes one badly-timed BIOS call, it could screw everything up.

But for loading firmware into peripherals, you should be able to do that from within an OS. The risk is much lower - if it goes wrong you can always retry it.

Oh please.

A "Windows 95/98 boot disk" is nothing but a DOS boot disk. If you don't have DOS or Windows, then just get FreeDOS, an open source version of DOS. It'll work just fine for a boot disk for ROM flashing. There's even a single diskette "distro" that you can download (although, frankly, you don't need anything more than kernel.sys and command.com as best I can tell). They even have a FAQ on this. And two manufacturers (MSI and ASUS) ship it with their utilities.

Good luck finding anyone who will provide a linux flash utility. There are a few manufacturers who will read the BIOS off a floppy disk (Gigabyte), a few that provide DOS or Windows flash utilities, but there's no software that I know of to do Linux flashes, nor is there any support in the kernel to do so (google for it -- there was some work on /dev/bios, but as best I can tell it's a deeply outdated hack now).

It's not "allegience to MS", as much as you might wish your little conspiracy theory to be true. It's called simplicity. Under DOS you don't have to worry about any other process interrupting the BIOS flashing. If another program was to do so, while the BIOS was being overwritten, and happened to need a BIOS call to a location that wasn't shadowed then all hell could break loose. DOS is freaking simple in this way (and before anyone says anything about TSRs -- it's recomended that you not have any loaded).

Quite frankly this is a lame Ask Slashdot. If the original asker had bothered doing any research on the subject they would've discovered a multitude of perfectly legal options available.

Okay, first off, "offering an .iso of OpenBSD" is the most ridiculous solution I'v ever heard. Why not just ship an EEPROM burner?
How about this: They require a DOS boot floppy because
a: These tools usually operate in real mode
b: DOS is real mode
c: DOS fits on a floppy
d: DOS isn't free

Oh, wait, DOS IS FREE.
STOP WHINING. Your knee-jerk reaction to "this needs DOS" is to think inside the box and whine about how MSFT eats babies and is a monopoly and nobody considers freedom important and TEH LUNIX ROXORZ J00!.
Just get a DOS boot disk from freedos, or any of the other DOS-alikes. That's what I do. It's useful to have around... Sure. In some Magical Future, we won't have floppies or DOS. And then you can burn a FreeDOS .iso, I'm sure.
My god, people, show a little flexibility.

Or better yet, why don't they make freedos images that you can just write to a floppy? I can see the reason for not moving to some different os because the bios flash program would need to be rewritten. However, considering there is a free version of dos that doesnt need royalty payments, i would think they would be able to provide floppy images.

Sorry for my ignorance, but will this affect the freedos project?

Freedos Website

Sure, you could have it use another FS (ext2) but can you imagine a DOS not using FAT?

In the FreeDos About, they write
We didn't want to be forced to use Windows, which completely removes the command line. In DOS, everything is done on the command line, and a true command line "guru" can do amazing things there. In Windows, you are stuck with the mouse, and if the menus don't let you do something, it pretty much can't be done. So things were looking pretty bleak. We were all very upset about Microsoft's decision to ditch the DOS platform.

Didn't Windows have a command line & batch files right from the beginning ?
What could you do on the DOS command line which couldn't do in the Windows Command Line ?

"DOS is DEAD"

You should try telling that to the FreeDOS folk after making the very best implementation of DOS ever - bar none. It's still very much alive, kicking and growing.

In comparison, Microsoft's DOS 6.22 (the last commercial stand-alone release) has been a rotting zombie for seven years now. The result? Microsoft lost the DOS wars.

Think about it. Microsoft destroyed DR-DOS, claiming victory with MS-DOS. Unfortunately it had no staying power. Windows became the future and MS moved on, abandoning MS-DOS. Microsoft won the DOS battle in terms of most money made, but it lost the long-term war to FreeDOS.

Put it this way: Can you buy a fresh copy of MS-DOS 6.22? No. You can't. But you can get FreeDOS.

Got old DOS software that won't run under Windows? Don't have Windows? No problem!

FreeDOS is still in development and is ramping up to a 1.0 release.

As an aside, the best text editor I ever used was Lotus Manuscript 1.0 for DOS. I got a promotional copy from a friend who was otherwise throwing it out. I still miss that program.

I tried installing windows XP on this computer and it ran just fine until I nuked it to play with different systems.

You sir, are totally full of raw fecal matter.

Apple, whose following is so devoted that they would actually resurrect one of their old products out of sheer love for it. I don't see any followers of Microsoft doing the same

Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...

You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:

Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.

Alternatives for DR-DOS (it is not Doctor-DOS; DR here once stood for Digital Research, the company who originally wrote that MS-DOS clone) are FreeDOS, Red Hat's eCos, or uCLinux to name just three. There are many others.

Get your hands on a DOS Emmulator such as FreeDos.
Download here: http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/
If I helped you, why not drop me an email: send2randy[at]hotmail.com

I know this may be off-topic to the story, but does anyone have quick tips on how to play these DOS-age games on modern day OS's and hardware?

Since this is slashdot, you really should be using Linux. :-)

Use DOSEmu and FreeDOS. We have some screenshots on the FreeDOS site of playing these great old DOS games using DOSEmu:

• DOOM
• Wolf3D
• Star Wars: Dark Forces

Or, if you have a Mac, you might use VirtualPC:

• Raptor, NESticle, Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem 3D

I know this may be off-topic to the story, but does anyone have quick tips on how to play these DOS-age games on modern day OS's and hardware?

Since this is slashdot, you really should be using Linux. :-)

Use DOSEmu and FreeDOS. We have some screenshots on the FreeDOS site of playing these great old DOS games using DOSEmu:

• DOOM
• Wolf3D
• Star Wars: Dark Forces

Or, if you have a Mac, you might use VirtualPC:

• Raptor, NESticle, Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem 3D

I know this may be off-topic to the story, but does anyone have quick tips on how to play these DOS-age games on modern day OS's and hardware?

Since this is slashdot, you really should be using Linux. :-)

Use DOSEmu and FreeDOS. We have some screenshots on the FreeDOS site of playing these great old DOS games using DOSEmu:

• DOOM
• Wolf3D
• Star Wars: Dark Forces

Or, if you have a Mac, you might use VirtualPC:

• Raptor, NESticle, Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem 3D

I know this may be off-topic to the story, but does anyone have quick tips on how to play these DOS-age games on modern day OS's and hardware?

Since this is slashdot, you really should be using Linux. :-)

Use DOSEmu and FreeDOS. We have some screenshots on the FreeDOS site of playing these great old DOS games using DOSEmu:

• DOOM
• Wolf3D
• Star Wars: Dark Forces

Or, if you have a Mac, you might use VirtualPC:

• Raptor, NESticle, Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem 3D

I know this may be off-topic to the story, but does anyone have quick tips on how to play these DOS-age games on modern day OS's and hardware?

Since this is slashdot, you really should be using Linux. :-)

Use DOSEmu and FreeDOS. We have some screenshots on the FreeDOS site of playing these great old DOS games using DOSEmu:

• DOOM
• Wolf3D
• Star Wars: Dark Forces

Or, if you have a Mac, you might use VirtualPC:

• Raptor, NESticle, Tomb Raider, Duke Nukem 3D

The first thought that comes to my mind is probably not the easiest solution, and I must admit I haven't tried it before, so I don't know for sure that it'll work, but it might be worth trying...

Install Bochs, and install a version of DOS onto that (I wonder if FreeDOS will work?) This will insure that the game is running on the OS it was really designed for (particularly if you use an old copy of MS-DOS rather than FreeDOS), and it will keep the game from trying to run too fast, since the emulation overhead will slow it down a bit. I think Bochs also includes a way to forcibly slow the CPU down even further if necessary.

Anyone have any experience trying this setup? I'm curious as to how well it would work...

If that is all you need use Freedos then.

Under GPL, you basically have your hands tied. You can't legally modify and use the code withouth submitting them back, and you can't really submit back the changes because they are usually hacks to get it to work how you want (not "improvements" on the code).

That's incorrect. The GNU GPL does not require you to submit anything back to the project you modified. However, the source code is under the GNU GPL, and the GNU GPL does require you to make that source code available if you redistribute the program. Check section 3.

If you make changes (even a hack to get something to work right on your hardware, or even to correct someone's spelling mistake in an error message), those changes are also under the GNU GPL, and you are similarly required to make that source code available if you redistribute the program.

I work on several open source / free software projects, including the FreeDOS Project. I've dealt with companies who use and redistribute FreeDOS and forget to provide the source code. Usually, all it takes is a friendly note: "hey, you forgot to make the source code available ... see section 3 of the GNU GPL ... here are some ways to do that." If the email is not harrassing ("show me the source or I'll sue your pants off") or intimidating ("you are so lame, why didn't you include the source?") the company will correct it and make the source code available as soon as possible.

The key thing to remember here is not to be an asshole to Linksys/Cisco. If they didn't provide the source code, just remind them what to do, and they'll fix it. If we act like assholes, what kind of message does that send to Linksys/Cisco?

(I'm not suggesting the original poster is an asshole - he's not. But we should be sure to keep our attitudes in check when dealing with Linksys/Cisco.)

-jh

You might not realize it, but I actually posted the BSD Is Dying troll myself (note the '-uso.' on it).

I, frankly, beg to differ. BSD is alive and well - and the troll's information is wildly inaccurate.

I myself dabble in BSD - OpenBSD userland porting. If you download FreeDOS ODIN 0.4, there is a "cal.com" program included, and guess where it comes from. OpenBSD.

Maybe it is dying (although, evidence points otherwise). No open-source OS of the scale of BSD will ever completely die. Someone will just fork and run. In fact, witness FreeBSD, NetBSD and Dragonfly.

-uso.

On my desktop I use mozilla for browsing the web, zoom player for videos, winamp for music, irfanview for pictures and flash movies, mozilla (again) for mail, Agent and powergrab for newsgroups, and PGP disk to keep it all together and organized (rather than use "partitions" for organizing data I use encrypted "containers" - also known as "files.")

So... what? If MS comes out next week with WM10 and IE7 it'll mean nothing to me; I still have IE5.0 on this box and the only reason I would upgrade to 5.5 is perhaps to install the IBM ecmascript engine, which requires some networking components from 5.5.

MS can come out with Windows-x-b-allodocious if they like - so what? Won't prevent me from using win2k with zoom player, agent, powergrab, pgpdisk and mozilla. Nor will it prevent these old Vectras stacked in the corner from running win2k, or win98, or even DOS (for which there are still plenty of uses).

Sharecropping? I think not. There is a world of "obsolete" and discarded technology out there, and each of us can command our own little heap of it. To quote Fred G. Sanford: "Never underestimate the power of junk."

Neh.

-uso.
Hauppauge WinTV Go! - Fails under Win98SE, works perfectly on RH8 Linux

I have to admit I was all wrong about SUN -- this is a very nice operating environment for our porpoises.

I'm with you, buddy. I've had it with this Linux crap. I'm moving all of our servers over to FreeDOS just as soon as I can rustle up a few more ISA ethernet cards. Bye bye XTerm, hellooooo Telix!

Well, it's Debian GNU/Hurd when Hurd is the kernel, so I see no reason why Debian GNU/NetBSD is not acceptable when the NetBSD kernel is used.

Does that mean you have Debian GNU/FreeDOS when somebody there decides to simply compile the Debian source with DJGPP?

Wind under Thy Wings

Amber

To start with, you can use the fully open source FREEDOS.

Secondly, I can't see any reason, other than performance why Linux couldn't work off of Int13 , and use Bios-level calls for all disk access. It's probably a good idea, and it would get use to some nice places.

Thirdly, the reason that the OEMs are using dos boot disks for bios updates and whatnot, is because it is far more simple, predictable and stable to use an OS that doesn't have anything clever going on when you are flashing the BIOS.

and Finally, simplicity. DOS is downright stupidly simple to build a boot disk for, and the commands are simple to use, and it is simple to talk someone thru an operation over the phone.

I know that there are many people who can build a boot disk for linux and they will come out of the woodwork to say it's easy, but it ain't as easy as SYS'ing a disk and dumping on IO.SYS ,MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM.

That, and try finding a Linux disk that is smaller than 300K ( as even the bloated IO.SYS/MSDOS.SYS/COMMAND.COM combo from Win98 is) and you'll find that it is just not going to fit.

Linux + WineX is a BIT unstable for Windows apps, right? Here's an idea. Why doesn't someone try to write a Windows 98 SE clone that sits on top of, oh, FreeDOS?

I couldn't be much help in such a project, as all I know is some BASIC, LOGO, and a little HTML. However, I think an open source Windows would be a great idea. Shoot, we could have LazyX, (BeatAroundThe)BushX, BushSound, BushVideo, etc.! Get it? Open source is to closed source as lazy is to active, and as beating around the bush is to being direct? Although, Bush needs eliminated (so did Saddam, but Bush needs eliminated too), so that might not be such a good idea.

But seriously, if you don't want to use OpenGL for your X server, then don't use it. Likewise, if 4 doesn't support your videocard (I heard that some drivers got broken) then use 3.3.6 - anything it breaks your videocard is too slow to display anyway. And if you want games that run on older PCs, buy shareware! People need to use that new hardware for something, and given the choice between getting shiny new hardware and optimizing crap for someone's 486, I choose shiny new hardware. You can always optimize later, and the 486 users should just go use free software so they can compile whatever they need for their own machines.

Oh, and if you have a 386, don't junk it, run FreeDOS!

FreeDOS has its own FDISK, and there's R. Nordier's FORMAT (sometimes works better than FD FORMAT) on the site too. Keep a boot disk with kernel.sys, command.com, fdisk.exe, fd*.ini, format.com and possibly a copy of Ranish Partition Manager (you'll possibly need cwsdpmi too), and you'll be God. Trust me, it's been a lifesaver for me more than once.

-uso.

You could get DrDos from here:
http://www.drdos.net/download.htm

or you could try Freedos

O.K. A while back I was in almost this exact same situation. A friend had given me a laptop with a 486 CPU, 8 MB ram, an 81MB HDD, a floppy, and no way to connect a modem,CD-ROM or NIC to it.

I asked around looking for a small OS to install on it. I got dozens of suggestions that sounded good but when put into practice every single one of them failed. Neither picoBSD or tinylinux or any of that other shit worked. Sure people told me it would, but it didn't.

Eventually I just threw FreeDOS on there. I cannot recommend FreeDOS enough. Check out their site. And the cool thing is that if you are any good with DOS then you will have no trouble with FreeDOS because it is a DOS clone and yet you do not have to worry about supporting the evil empire as FreeDOS is Open Source.

And even better you can search all the old abandonware sites to find old DOS games like Wolfenstein to play on it. You would be surprised how much cool old DOS software that there is out there for the taking. Anyways that is my contribution. Check out FreeDOS, at the very minimum it will be cool for the oldtime nostalgia retro feel you get from editing config.sys and autoexec.bat!.

I have a bunch of old laptops so I have had the same problem as you. There is Small Linux but that didn't really suit me at the time. You can forget installing any other Linux distro on anything with less than 4Mb of RAM, although I would say Slackware is the best of the bunch when it comes to hardware requirements.

In the end I opted for Freedos for a 386 with 2Mb that my 5 year old son plays with. It's not UNIX, but it's much more UNIX-like than any other DOS I have used. There are also many educational programs and games that are available for free download.

Hope this helps.

Off the top of my head, I think you should be able run Minix on it - however I'm not sure if X Windows comes with it by default, but I seem to recall someone saying it does work after a compile.

Also, FreeDOS would probably work.

Other than what's been already mentioned, I can't think of anything else that's free... Apparently you can still buy DR-DOS from someone and IBM still sells PC-DOS, but I have no idea where to get them...

I still use DOS!

For those missing the days Look here for a GnuDOS that is %98 compatible with MS-DOS! Perfect for your old 133.

It runs on ancient hardware all the way back to the 8088 and comes with gnu tools. I was planning to run dukenukem on my 486 with FreeDOS but it died beyond repair. :-(

Hey, if you have old PC hardware like this, you might consider contributing to the FreeDOS Project. Part of our goal is to support older hardware like this. Even though you don't find a lot of 286's in people's homes anymore (at least, not turned on) you still find a fair number of 286's in embedded systems.

Please consider testing FreeDOS on your older hardware. You'd be helping out our little project.

Thanks.

-jh

well, dos might not be "as alive as" linux or bsd's, but just check this

FWIW, some parts of ReactOS use FreeDOS components. For example, the ReactOS cmd.exe is based on the FreeDOS "FreeCOM" (the FreeDOS command.com).

Thought you'd like to know. If you're interested in the DOS parts of ReactOS, you're probably better off to download FreeDOS, which is more stable & mature anyway.

FWIW, some parts of ReactOS use FreeDOS components. For example, the ReactOS cmd.exe is based on the FreeDOS "FreeCOM" (the FreeDOS command.com).

Thought you'd like to know. If you're interested in the DOS parts of ReactOS, you're probably better off to download FreeDOS, which is more stable & mature anyway.

Windows is likely to disappear from the face of the earth sometime in 2004

MS-DOS lived from 1981 to 2002. It is no longer maintained; instead, a GPL clone is maintained by the community.

The first good version of Microsoft Windows (Windows 3.x) appeared around 1990. I don't see the product surviving past 2020, let alone the 2080's when the copyrights begin to expire.

Sure, here are the first signs. Hard to believe? Even Bob X. Cringely says "Even today, you can still get to a C: prompt under Windows XP, which means a disk operating system is hiding there no matter what Microsoft wants us to believe." I don't know what he means with this, but it has DOS in it.

I love Linux, but I don't think it's right for this project. The only reason to run Linux on this thing is that you like Linux and you haven't thought of the alternatives.

What MAME needs is an OS that doesn't get in the way. There's no need for any processes other than MAME to be running, so no multitasking. We want fast, direct access to graphics and sound hardware. We want DOS. It's no coincidence that the core MAME source is written for DOS.

If a free OS is required, I'm given to understand that MAME runs fine under FreeDOS.

DOS MAME aleady contains code to underclock certain video cards to TV scanrates. ArcadeOS is one MAME frontend that can also run at these scanrates.

for FreeDOS?

I just realized how whorey this post sounds, so I'll post anonymously.

But seriously, will this make a difference as far as apps for FreeDOS / freeDOS itself is concerned?