Slashdot Mirror

Look again. I know we don't expect people to RTFA, but can you at least look at shiny pictures?

We don't know the location of the mouse pointer in the Opera screenshot.

Look carefully at the reference diagram and the supposedly passing screenshot. I can clearly see the blue nose in the opera screen shot, and it's meant to be black in the reference diagram. Sure, it's close, but no cigar. I mean, if TFA complains that scroll bars appearing is a failure, surely miscolouring a part must be too.

Provide a link to the image, or people here won't understand your subtle sarcasm. :)

Show me a standards-compliant page that renders differently in Opera.

It all depends on which subset of the standards you use.

A while back, I ran into some bugs with :first-line in Opera 8. Fully validating code, but styles would persist incorrectly and, in one case, text would disappear. One's fixed in Opera 9 TP2, the other is still around. Sure, this was real edge-case stuff, but it happens.

Here's a more practical example going the other way: creating frames with generated content. It works handily in Opera, not at all in IE, and can be made to almost-work in Firefox (it comes down to positioning on generated content based on different versions of the CSS spec).

Standards compliance in a browser isn't a matter of working down a checklist from item #1 to item #1000, and counting complaince based on whether you get to item #800, #900, or #999. You look through the standards and prioritize. Maybe both browsers fulfill 900 of those items -- but maybe item #723 is only implemented in one of them, because one browser picked it as a priority, and the other put it off.

Stepping away from standards-compliance for a moment, you also have to take into account things like XMLHTTPRequest, contentEditable, and so on. Most rich text editors (popular in webmail apps) couldn't run on Opera until they released the Opera 9 previews, because the required features weren't there. And every minor version of Opera from 8 on has made more adjustments for AJAX apps.

Even within standards -- both de facto and de jure -- you need to find a common subset. Validating the code doesn't guarantee that other browsers will behave the way you expect.

If Opera 9 has decent CSS support I might agree. Opera 8's CSS support was pretty crappy.

No offense... but WTF have you been smoking?

Opera 8 had pretty damn good CSS support. Well ahead of IE (but then what isn't these days) and comparable to Firefox and Safari. The problem is that no rendering engine today supports the *entire* spec, and each engine supports a slightly different subset.

To make up some numbers, Gecko 1.8 and Opera 8 might each support 90% of CSS2 specs, plus 5% of CSS3, but the subset of CSS2 covered by both browsers might be 85%, and the shared subset of CSS3 might be 2%.

Position Is Everything and How To Create have some nice examples showing errors or gaps in various browsers' support. There are techniques Opera gets right that Gecko doesn't alongside techniques that Gecko gets right that Opera doesn't.

"7. Did I already mention that it was fast?" - by linuxguy (98493) on Wednesday February 08, @02:18AM

Yes!

Here is some 'fuel-for-your-fire' man, so your statements are not just anecdotal & a matter of your OWN opinion (which I most readily 110% agree with as well) - The URL below is the MOST even-handed browser speed comparisons page I have ever run across online, that covers IE/Mozilla variants/Opera & across multiple OS platforms as well, that 'seconds your motion(s)':

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

* Enjoy!

APK

P.S.=> Opera just wins the most browser speed tests across the boards on various tests there, & overall, on the most OS platforms as well... apk

"Mozilla and Firefox borrowed some of their ideas." - by shokk (187512) on Monday February 06, @04:25PM

'Borrowed'?

Ahem - You really mean 'STOLE', don't you??

(e.g.-> Tabbed Browsing ring a specific bell here???)

"Opera cries "what about me?" as it's broken down on the side of the road while the bullet train that is Firefox advances towards IE." - by shokk (187512) on Monday February 06, @04:25PM

Oh, really? Well, take a peek @ this URL, & tell me that Opera's folks would even have to 'stoop so low', when they win the browser speed/performance tests like these, overall & across the boards vs. IE &/or Mozilla variants (netscape & firefox):

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

* :)

(Argue with the numbers & facts on that page - it's the MOST accurate & up-to-date performance test for webbrowsers I know of, & Opera comes out ontop in most of all the tests, across the most platforms).

APK

or the fact that we have a more compliant rendering engine.

Really? Is this a bit like the claim on getfirefox.com that you can browse faster, when Firefox is actually one of the slowest of the major browsers?

There doesn't seem to be a big difference between gecko and presto (or KHTML): CSS engine comparison. So what do you mean by "more compliant"?

I'd like to know who cares about XUL other than the Firefox devs too. There are better kits out there. I can feel the UI lag even on a modern machine. And SpiderMonkey? That's so slow only small and thin applications can be written in javascript.

Firefox has been a bit of a disappointment to me. It was originally supposed to be a light replacement to the Mozilla suite. And what did we get? An overengineered mess! XUL is just one symptom of the mentality of NIV and lack of KISS. Firefox could have been so much better...

Hey, is it just me, or is it a bit hot here?

Sure it's not full support -- no one has that -- but at this point the rest of the major players (Firefox, Safari, Opera) all have much better support for CSS than IE does.

To make some numbers up, supporting 90% of the spec is still a lot better than supporting 70%, especially when people have found really nifty things you can do with that extra 20%.

"Can you give us a taste of new, unannounced features we'll see in future versions?" - by robyannetta (820243) * on Thursday December 29, @12:18PM

How about existing ones, like Opera's FANTASTIC overall performance (on many OS, but especially on the one MOST run, Win32 platforms), in terms of speed for MANY webbrowser oriented processes/features?

Check it, you may NOT be aware of THIS:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

READ THAT, & be VERY informed as well as enlightened as to which browser performs the FASTEST on any given platform almost.

* So, after you read that? Well, what browser's the fastest, overall, on the MOST OS' out there (& again, on the MOST USED platform, Win32)?

OPERA!

Hey, guys, above all realize 1 thing - IF Microsoft &/or GOOGLE are taking a peek @ Opera, rather than a free opensource coded one like FireFox, have you ever thought their system engineers have looked @ those tests (as well as Opera having features like tabs YEARS before any of them as well as other featuresets), & said:

"BOSS, Opera is more feature-laden & faster than other browsers overall and MOSTLY on the most used platform out there in Win32... it's THE ONE TO BUY!"

You BET they have.

APK

P.S.=> Fact is, here @ slashdot? Well, I've posted that link url above @ least 10x this year...

It is after all imo @ least, THE fairest & most even-handed/impartial test I have ever seen of webbrowser comparison tests for speed there is, & VERY up-to-date in the browser versions tested no less... apk

One of Opera's many strengths is it's excellent rendering engine, Presto, which is light, fast, and standards compliant. To this point, is has held an edge over the competition -- over just about everything in terms of speed, over IE in standards compliance, and over Gecko in a clean and agile codebase (admittedly I haven't seen either, but judging from results and what I've heard).

However, it now has some significant competition from KHTML/WebCore, which enjoys both corporate backing from Apple (and to a lesser degree Nokia), and the support of the open source community. It too has a clean and flexible codebase (this was the reason Apple chose it for Safari instead of Gecko, in the first place), it has a degree of standards compliance comparable to Opera's, and with Safari 2, it's also the only browser to seriously challenge Opera in terms of speed. There has also been movement (by Nokia) to adapt it to the mobile market, which is, if memory serves, Opera's main source of income currently.

What do you think of KHTML/WebCore? Do you see it as a threat to Opera's position in the desktop and/or mobile markets? If so, how do you plan to stay ahead of it?

You have to admit they have good taste: It's the FASTEST browser out there, check it (on MANY platforms, but especially on Windows (which is the most widely used OS platform & API out there)):

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

FASTEST OVERALL WEB-BROWSER & ON THE MOST PLATFORMS (including their handheld models which rock too, lol) UNDER THE SUN!

* Like the author of it said? Read it, make your own judgements - but, arguing with those results & findings against them?? Good luck!

(And, they're pretty much dead-on, especially in Windows, even on today's high mhz CPU's (3.2ghz here))

Plus? It's MASSIVELY secure, & least breaches are found on it!

And, as well as being even moreso secureable than it is (I've got tons of excellent hacks for it - been using it for ages)...

It also rules/rocks on platforms that aren't PC's either, no less! Talk about flexible/portable architecture!

Lastly?? It's had features the other browser families & their descendents copied (can you say tabbed browsing for instance?) as well... for years beforehand.

* :)

APK

P.S.=> I'll give GOOGLE one thing to their credit - they've evidently done their research & found it's the BEST thing out there! Good for the Opera folks, hope they make a bundle & GOOGLE keeps it getting even better... even better than the 9.x model upcoming, w/out "Netscape/AOL'ing it" etc./et all, bloating it! apk

"maybe someone can tell me what makes it good enough to ditch what ships with my OS? Don't start by trying to tell me what I have isn't good enough. Can anyone sell me on some positives?" - by mcgroarty (633843) on Monday December 12, @04:48PM

How about performance/speed?

Take a read, it's the MOST current "browser speed" competition I have found online!

This very page helped 'turn' me from FireFox/FireBird/Phoenix in years past as well (NOT knocking FireFox here, it's VERY nice)... & I am a person that helped to spot & fix some "bugs" with various sites online's forums I used to go to regularly for/with the FireFox team, who responded THAT VERY DAY in email to me directly, & then came to said website's forums to discuss the problem & fix w/ that site's webmaster... nope, I am NOT one to "knock" FireFox, even in 1.5 with the known bug out there now for it... why?

Because, those guys are GOOD & will get around it and fix it. I've seen them in action, directly!

However, for performance? Well, take a read:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

Opera 6.x-9.x just hands-down won more of those tests than IE (& variants like MaxThon built off the IE engine iirc), Netscape, Mozilla, & FireFox did individually, & collectively as well, across the boards.

SO, IF YOU VALUE PERFORMANCE/SPEED online?

Opera's apparently THE "KING OF SPEED" for many purposes & tests as evidenced above in that URL!

(Folks say it doesn't display pages right, even here @ slashdot, but I have YET to see Opera 8.5 not display pages here right! Sure, there's sites that are IE dependent (such as Windows Update that need to use ActiveX controls) & also Intranet pages where IE still rules, but overall? Well, like I said, take a peek @ that page & do your OWN judging!)

APK

P.S.=> And, best of all? Opera's FREE now too!

IMO, such as it is, it's truly immensely tough to compete with freeware if you are 'sold commercialware'!

The ONLY companies I see doing well here are the likes of Microsoft/IBM sized entities...

With their "deep pockets"? They evidently can afford developer time for losses, just to gain market-share & wipe out competition! apk

"must admit that the idea is cool - though the software is less than that."

I don't know what you define as "cool", but I'd say that being smaller and faster than other browsers, and still having lots of useful features (that don't get in the way, by the way!) built in without the need to mess around with extensions is pretty darn cool.

Not to mention the new Opera Mini browser which works on just about all mobile phones and is available for free.

And of course the innovation which has helped shape the modern browser. The now standard search field and popup blocking? Opera came up with those. And countless other features we take for granted today.

"I don't care who's fault it is. Just fix the problem. //not that I use IE but you know still." - by teiresias (101481) on Tuesday December 06, @09:24AM

Agreed, 110% - bitching about something, &/or pointing fingers doesn't solve hassles, work & actual results, do.

(On using IE? I do, when a page forces it, such as Windows Update... but, that's about it imo & as far as I am concerned as to utilizing IE @ home (in the workplaces I have been, it's the defacto std., & especially for intranet usage)).

Sometimes, you just don't have a choice as to which browser you use, but this & other IE problems should hopefully get better with VISTA & IE7, because for example, the version of IE in Windows Server 2003 is a heck of a lot more secure (& XP SP2 as well) than the defaults given IE in Windows 2000 & earlier models of IE6.x as well as IE 5.x...

Myself, as far as webbrowsers? I go with Opera, & with GOOD reason, see this study:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

Opera is just the fastest browser out there, & that test's pretty recent with fairly recent builds of IE, &/or FireFox etc. & Opera's also shown less security related bugs vs. those other 2 as well.

BOTTOM-LINE - Time heals all wounds... well, that & developer's sweat and the crew @ GOOGLE didn't waste any time on this fix, good job on their parts imo by all means!

* :)

APK

"Opera are commericial FOR PROFIT projects" - by xot (663131) on Saturday December 03, @04:46AM

Newsflash - Opera 8.5x is FREE.

"Firefox is a much younger project than the others" - by xot (663131) on Saturday December 03, @04:46AM

Oh, really? Have you ever heard of FireBird, or Phoenix?? They are the 'progenitors' of FireFox!

Also, How about Netscape (one of the world's OLDEST browsers)?? Because that's where FireFox's technology & heritage spring from...

Years of it, & as old as Opera is iirc, if not older considering it is a Netscape spin-off.

(IE, &/or Netscape BOTH "bit off of" Mosaic as well, incidentally!)

"Firefox wins hands down" - by xot (663131) on Saturday December 03, @04:46AM

Does it? Take a read here:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

(As you can see, clearly, Opera definitely won more tests of browser speed than IE &/or FireFox (& it's ancestors/cousins) did in that test - I challenge you to find another OR more recent test that is as comprehensive, because I honestly would like to see/find yet another of these for my bookmarks - thanks!)

* :)

(Also - I had to clear the air of the "F.U.D." is all, & inform you with current info. so your posts are more accurate as well, not to "bust" on you (I don't even know or have anything against you you so there's no point in that imo) & just a wee bit of history as to the roots of all of these modern web-browsers)

APK

"I have to totally agree! Opera totally blows away Firefox." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 03, @09:20AM

Yes, it does & has in the past, as far as performance!

See here:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

For speed/performance? Opera IS the FordGT (from the automotive world) of webbrowser programs, hands-down - the fastest.

If you're into FAST & SECURE webbrowsers? Opera's your ticket-to-ride without a doubt! It also shows the LEAST security holes out there as far as browsers go iirc also.

Still don't get me wrong:

I'm not knocking FireFox though.

It's also a hell of a product, & its extensibility helps make it even better via its XUL 3rd party coded extensions!

BUT, those very extensions have proved a liability before (ala the "GreaseMonkey" extension vulnerability earlier this year):

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=156306&thre shold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=154&mode=thread&pid=131 03631

That very thing is what has helped imo, to hobble IE, because it installs things w/out asking (ActiveX controls) by default. FireFox isn't like that, YOU make the moves on installing extensions, so YOU have to watch out & keep abreast of updates to them (the features for updating your extensions in FireFox are excellent by the by imo)

HOWEVER - I can tell you, point-blank/first hand though, that when it comes to fixing holes or bugs in their app? The Mozilla team's AWESOME!

I helped them fix an error while the FireBird product parsed a homegrown forums board @ NTCompatible.com a year or two back, & when the bug was reproduceable consistently, I wrote them with it & how to reproduce it on THEIR end.

They wrote me back, directly, the next day & fixed it, and even showed up to speak with us their directly, which I thought was MEGA-COOL of them - talk about service & accessible personnel!

APK

"How does opera keep getting in the headlines?" - by neoform (551705) on Tuesday November 29, @01:34AM

Because it outperforms the rest of them on most web-oriented tasks, period. It's the fastest web-browser there is.

See here (latest test I have found, using Opera 8.x & other browsers were @ their current builds as of the date of this test as well):

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

(& it's typically less "security-hole/bug-ridden" vs. IE &/or FireFox as well)

* That's why!

APK

P.S.=> As far as your weblogs, you've got to realize 2 things - Opera's able to "forge" it's identifier strings, & by default iirc, it poses as IE, and additionally, Opera wasn't free (as IE & FireFox are basically) until a month or two ago, & that's a BIG incentive for people to use software (which is why Linux has made such a dent in the marketplace in both home & corporate environs - it works, & costs nothing to purchase initially)... apk

If you can view adbanners, you can nab a virus/malware/spyware via a web-browser program!

Yes, believe-it-or-not, it's been known to happen & was even reported here on slashdot in the past quite a few times the last 2-3 years now.

See here for more potential vulnerabilities found in FireFox in the past, & also its plugins, such as the "greasemonkey" one that made 'big headlines' in the past, e.g.'s:

http://secunia.com/advisories/16911/

http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/07/19/143241.shtml?ti d=154&tid=172

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1838261,00.as p

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/12/mozilla_id n_fix/

(And, there are others, those are just examples... as well as the initial point I made about adbanners having been shown to harbor malware/spyware inserts into your OS as well in the past 2-3 years now a few times already).

Sure, many of them have been patched (as far as internal-to-FireFox code itself), but what about those plugins as well?

(I'd say, it's a GOOD bet that more will popup in the browser extensions FireFox has available for it, unfortunately... part of the "growing pains" of this browser, and a note about the 'danger' of 3rd party extensibility tools. ActiveX didn't come out as planned for IE either, so-to-speak, security-wise outside of Intranet usage & then probably not 110% totally safe either).

APK

P.S.=> Personally, though I think FireFox is excellent work & has come a LONG ways (since "FireBird" etc. builds of it), Opera 8.51 is my web-browser choice, since Opera's typically been shown to be faster:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win

And, also it seems that Opera has always been less subject to online vulnerability vs. BOTH FireFox &/or IE, period, as well as being consistently a faster/better performer year in & year out... apk

As for Opera not being "the light, snappy browser it once was" (how do you "feel" that something is heavy?), Opera has never been just a browser. It's done mail and newsgroups since at least version 2. And at version 9 it's still smaller and faster[1] than anything comparable (that is, other modern browsers), and with a better UI. Yes, Konqueror's bloated UI blows chunks. And it eats memory like there's no tomorrow, unlike Opera, which is very memory efficient.

So basically, you don't know what you are talking about. As usual.

And stop talking about your penis, spammer.

[1] Notice how the latest Konqueror is incredibly slow? Yep, it's getting even more bloated!

That's right, Opera had tabbed browsing in its user interface, first!

However, you have your "F.U.D." spreaders over here @ slashdot that infest the net with their bullcrap & rumors that FireFox is #1.

APK

P.S.=> Now, don't get me wrong - FireFox isn't bad @ all! However, there is little question that FireFox bit a TON of things off of Opera, no questions asked!

AND, still FireFox/Mozilla/IE don't perform as well as Opera does!

Anyone that states otherwise? OK...

Then, you can argue with the facts from a test here:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed

(Provide us a more current test, before you try the "Well, that test isn't today's date 10/13/2005" b.s., because the version of Opera used there IS 8.x series & the FireFox one is not all that 'out of date' either. Just show us a more current & comprehensive test is all I would ask to THAT nature of reply)

1) SPEED. People love to say "it goes fast even on old equipment". Opera goes faster on fast equipment too. Firefox still has that annoying lag time when you click the back button, and Opera is nearly instantaneous. It is more memory efficient too, so it lasts for a longer time before a restart. It reloads to your previous position on crashes (which almost never happen). It can save your old pages you were viewing too, so if you close the browser, it will load them all back up. On benchmarks, Opera takes almost every single benchmark, as is shown here: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

2) Configurability. Opera is configurable as hell. Basically everything on the browser can be changed. Don't like the skin? Change it. Don't like the status bar on top? Move it to the bottom, or turn it off completely. Don't like the fast forward button? Get rid of it. It's this that gives you a highly functional browsing experience, while at the same time taking up a lot less space so you get more web page viewing. Choice is power.

The one down point that people like to point out is that occasionally Opera won't work on a page. The opera guys have spent years engineering little differences out of the engine, and that almost never happens anymore. And the thing is, that will start to change when a lot of people start using the browser. That, and I mean even Firefox misses on some of those gross IE designed garbage pages.

Look, I know a lot of people here are set on Firefox exclusively because its open source and blahdeblah, but don't decide your browser on nontechnocratic grounds. I've been surfing the net for over 10 years, and I remember when Opera 3 was out. Opera used to be a slow, buggy peice of crap that didn't work on anything. It's now an incredible browser, and it blows the competition away.

In short, just try it.

Opera: It's THE "good stuff"!

IMO, but also solely based on facts, for a triumvirate of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

----

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed

(And, by the way? It uses Opera 8.0 in its result sets... that's before anyone tries the classic, narrow-Jedi-minded view of "where is the latest version's results" b.s., which I see TOO much of from non-coders/jedi/networking types. Learn to know the "dark side of the force & you achieve a power GREATER than any Jedi", i.e.? Learn to code, before you start up that often useless viewpoint here, since the latest/greatest (nearly) is covered there, except for "minor version" updates to 8.02 not being there: Close enough imo, & I do code, & have spoken with the FireFox & Opera teams before via email &/or irc chats with them AND helped them out of bugs no less (FireFox especially over @ NTCompatible.com with their homegrown, & imo, yes impressive forums board engine) no less, and the firefox folks came and spoke to us directly, emailed me also, the next day fixing the bug per my suggestion/advice, etc.).

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

Opera (as you may read for yourselves above) even did great on the OTHER platforms too!

Now, some folks will say "But today's CPU's are so fast this does not matter" - ahem: BEG TO DIFFER, it matters! If a browser's faster & more efficient on slower CPU's ESPECIALLY (purely relative term here), it will still be faster on faster CPU's mhz or cores/h-t/smp-wise (especially if multithreaded & designed properly with non-blocking operations in multithread design used wisely). That type of statement is like trying to say "Delphi code speed being faster than MSVC++ &/or VB doesn't matter" when clearly, it does. I cite this from as far back as 1997 where in Visual Basic Programmer's Journal Oct. Issue "Inside the VB5 Compiler Engine" issue had Delphi blow away VB in every test (except ActiveX form loads which VB even beat MSVC++ in since it is optimized best for it) & even took MSVC++ to the cleaners... in every test (except graphics form paints, losing only marginally, VERY small margin). In math & strings, which EVERY program does? Delphi absolutely swept the floor with BOTH VC & VB... & by HUGE margins. O

I'll have to respectfully disagree with your argument that Firefox is faster than Opera. In some respects and configurations, maybe, but generally Opera performs faster when rendering content, running scripts and starting up.

Source

On my machine, Firefox takes up to 8 seconds to start, while Opera starts within 3 seconds. Also, although this isn't technically meritable, Opera feels faster because of keystroke commands, mouse gestures and quick tab switching/handling. Every extension for Firefox that I've found feels clunky and requires too much precision for mouse gestures.

Firefox may win on customizability simply because it supports extensions, but really, I haven't found all that many extensions that are useful, or aren't just to provide functionality that I thought should've been included in the base program. Why should there be an extension for mouse gestures, tabbed browsing and middle-click functionality? Opera has this ready to go on install.

With all that said, even with all the advances Opera has made, there is still an occasional site that doesn't work as I expect. Usually, that's due to bad code, and the browser lets you report a site problem anyway.

However some people prefer Opera because it's
1) more secure .... link 1 .... link 2 .... link 3 .... link 4 .... link 5 .... link 6, September 16th 2005
2) faster
3) Is actively worked on -from Mike Connor, an important Firefox developer
4) smaller (3.7mb vs 4.7mb)
5) less bloat/ram usage

Time (and Microsoft) heals all wounds...

"That the bigger problem is the platform IE resides on." - by DavidLeeRoth (865433) on Saturday September 17, @11:51AM

(Diamond Dave! Is that REALLY you? On a side-note?? LOL, if you - you rock man!)

Anyhow:

In a way, being a "Pro-Win32" person, this is good news really, to myself @ least.

And, not to 'bust your balls', BUT, your statement doesn't 'ring true' though as a whole!

(Not on the version of Windows as a WHOLE, being the problem/case here)

Check it:

Windows Server 2003 & its version of IE (diff. & better than the one in XP & below models of this OS) is not affected apparently from what I gather of the article's content.

I saw NO mention of that being the case on that OS from MS (Windows Server 2003 being the platform) being affected by this POTENTIAL bug.

It's different/better than XP's codebase & so is its version of IE.

Plus, another hole soon to "bite-the-dust" in this web-browser on ALL OS versions from/by MS.

(Especially if folks like that eEye place keeps trying to punch holes into IE. I, for one, am glad people like that actually do find & let MS know about such faults or potential faults... even though I don't use IE as my 'web-browser weapon-of-choice' here).

In the meantime, JUST TO BE "SAFE(R)"?

I go Opera 8.02...

Why?? Simple, take a read:

Opera IS the best browser...

Here are some proofs via tests & featuresets, etc./et all!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff"!

IMO, but also solely based on facts, for a triumvirate of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox/Mozilla products even:

----

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed

(And, by the way? It uses Opera 8.0 in its result sets... that's before anyone tries the classic, narrow-Jedi-minded view of "where is the latest version's results" b.s., which I see TOO much of from non-coders/jedi/networking types. Learn to know the "dark side of the force & you achieve a power GREATER than any Jedi", i.e.? Learn to code, before you start up that often useless viewpoint here, because it gives you insights into this type of stuff is why!)

Since the latest/greatest (nearly) is covered there, except for "minor version" updates to 8.02 not being there: Close enough imo, & I do code, & have spoken with the FireFox & Opera teams before via email &/or irc chats with them AND helped them out of bugs no less (FireFox especially over @ NTCompatible.com with their homegrown, & imo, yes impressive forums board engine) no less, and the firefox folks came and spoke to us directly, emailed me also, the next day fixing the bug per my suggestion/advice, etc./et all.

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared

In general it seems slow compared to firefox, it's hard to pinpoint what exactly. I'll have to borrow from mac terminology and say "it isn't as snappy as opera" when it comes to complex DHTML.

These benchmarks show what I'm getting at, notice the slow javascript time for firefox on linux vs windows which is a bit better for some reason:

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

Here are some proofs via tests & featuresets, etc./et all!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff"!

IMO, but also solely based on facts, for a triumvirate of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

----

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed

(And, by the way? It uses Opera 8.0 in its result sets... that's before anyone tries the classic, narrow-Jedi-minded view of "where is the latest version's results" b.s., which I see TOO much of from non-coders/jedi/networking types. Learn to know the "dark side of the force & you achieve a power GREATER than any Jedi", i.e.? Learn to code, before you start up that often useless viewpoint here, since the latest/greatest (nearly) is covered there, except for "minor version" updates to 8.02 not being there: Close enough imo, & I do code, & have spoken with the FireFox & Opera teams before via email &/or irc chats with them AND helped them out of bugs no less (FireFox especially over @ NTCompatible.com with their homegrown, & imo, yes impressive forums board engine) no less, and the firefox folks came and spoke to us directly, emailed me also, the next day fixing the bug per my suggestion/advice, etc.).

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

Opera (as you may read for yourselves above) even did great on the OTHER platforms too!

Now, some folks will say "But today's CPU's are so fast this does not matter" - ahem: BEG TO DIFFER, it matters! If a browser's faster & more efficient on slower CPU's ESPECIALLY (purely relative term here), it will still be faster on faster CPU's mhz or cores/h-t/smp-wise (especially if multithreaded & designed properly with non-blocking operations in multithread design used wisely). That type of statement is like trying to say "Delphi code speed being faster than MSVC++ &/or VB doesn't matter" when clearly, it does. I cite this from as far back as 1997 where in Visual Basic Programmer's Journal Oct. Issue "Inside the VB5 Compiler Engine" issue had Delphi blow away VB in every test (except ActiveX form loads which VB even beat MSVC++ in since it is optimized best for it) & even took MSVC++ to the cleaners... in every test (except graphics form paints, losing only marginally, VERY small margin). In math & strings, which EVERY program does? Delphi absolu

Googlized :: compare browsers firefox safari

Best result :: http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

Sure, Firefox has better features, but are they features that Mr. Average User needs?

Yes!

Just because they can't articulate the specifics, I'd say most users would appreciate faster, thinner, more responsive and adaptive pages. Maybe Mr. Average User has never heard of CSS 2.1, but I'd bet that stylesheets that are about half the size of current IE-bloated workaround code would appeal to him. I'd also bet that sites with more attractive and engaging interfaces thanks to PNG transparency support would be more successful. Not having to add big, kludgy workarounds for IE's lousy subset of HTML, CSS, and DOM also lowers costs and dramatically improves development efficiency, reducing the cost and time requirements of site improvements, and simplifies debugging. Users tend to like that.

Microsoft agrees, too. That's why they are adding these features to Firefox Lite (IE7). Of course the jarringly different interface means that IE6 to Firefox conversion is likely to be smoother than upgrading IE6 to IE7.

Here's two links showing how it's done. Should billiions of dollars of MS research really have given us this shit? I know web developers who would gleefully kick the IE developers in the nuts.

http://koivi.com/ie-png-transparency/

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/alpha.html

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

You show one old, tired example of a biased test where Opera wins. The same one I've seen a hundred times.

He's using a freaking P3 and a G4 400 MHz. He hasn't updated that site in ages. Get a clue. or a computer from this millenium.

Cheating? About what??

Trying to compete against something given away FREELY as FireFox is (which is incredibly TOUGH to compete with)???

Some facts anyone here is welcome to dispute about FireFox vs. Opera (& vice-a-versa):

Opera: It's THE "good stuff"!

IMO, but also solely based on facts, for a triumvirate of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

----

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

Opera (as you may read for yourselves above) even did great on the OTHER platforms too!

----

2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...

----

3.) It is MASSSIVELY "multi-platform" & afaik? NOT just restricted to PC's either - there is a large body of handhelds out there which use Opera as their browser tool such as the Symbian 60 series handphone & most all OS' (including FreeBSD, Linux, etc. & more + Windows).

* :)

So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!

(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)

APK

P.S.=> The ONLY thing FireFox has (and don't get me wrong, I like FireFox, & FAR better than IE 6.x) over Opera?

Is that FireFox is FREEBIE-WARE!

However, some of its freeware model unfortunately (as evidenced by the recent XUL 3rd party addons like GreaseMonkey having to be fixed for security holes) may jeopardize it as did ActiveX DLL extensions to IE!

(E.G.-> ActiveX DLL extensions to IE were initially meant to be for "the good", but one bad apple(s) were all it took to make this featureset for IE a detriment rather than an asset)...

BOTTOM-LINE - Compared head-to-head/mano-a-mano, you see the results above as proofs, Opera's just the best! apk

Agreed, Opera IS the best browser...

Here are some proofs via tests & featuresets, etc./et all!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff"!

IMO, but also solely based on facts, for a triumvirate of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

----

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

----

2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...

----

3.) It is MASSSIVELY "multi-platform" & afaik? NOT just restricted to PC's either - there is a large body of handhelds out there which use Opera as their browser tool such as the Symbian 60 series handphone & most all OS' (including FreeBSD, Linux, etc. & more + Windows).

* :)

So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!

(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)

APK

P.S.=> The ONLY thing FireFox has (and don't get me wrong, I like FireFox, & FAR better than IE 6.x) over Opera?

Is that FireFox is FREEBIE-WARE!

However, some of its freeware model unfortunately (as evidenced by the recent XUL 3rd party addons like GreaseMonkey having to be fixed for security holes) may jeopardize it as did ActiveX DLL extensions to IE!

(E.G.-> ActiveX DLL extensions to IE were initially meant to be for "the good", but one bad apple(s) were all it took to make this featureset for IE a detriment rather than an asset)...

BOTTOM-LINE - Compared head-to-head/mano-a-mano, you see the results above as proofs, Opera's just the best! apk

Agreed!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff", & imo? Based on facts, for a couple of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

&

2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...

* :)

So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!

(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)

APK

Agreed!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff", & imo? Based on facts, for a couple of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

&

2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...

* :)

So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!

(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)

APK

Agreed!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff", & imo? Based on facts, for a couple of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

1.) Opera wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

-----

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

-----

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT! And, it rocked on other Os platforms as well!)

&

2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...

* :)

So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!

(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)

APK

Agreed!

Opera: It's THE "good stuff", & imo? Based on facts, for a couple of VERY SOLID reasons vs. IE, &/or FireFox:

1.) It wins in speed, everytime, in the online tests/analysis I have seen out there for years now at numerous sites in most ALL categories run in said tests!

E.G.-> http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html#win speed [howtocreate.co.uk]

SUMMARY:

"So overall, Opera seems to be the fastest browser for windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, it is a better choice. However, it is still not as fast as Opera, and Opera also offers a high level of standards support, security and features.

On Linux, Konqueror is the fastest for starting and viewing basic pages on KDE, but as soon as script or images are involved, or you want to use the back or forward buttons, or if you use Gnome, Opera is a faster choice, even though on KDE it will take a few seconds longer to start. Mozilla and Firefox give an overall good performance, but their script, cache handling and image-based page speed still cannot compare with Opera.

On Mac OS X, Opera and Safari are both very fast, with Safari 2 being faster at starting and rendering CSS, but with Opera still being distinguishably faster for rendering tables, scripting and history (especially compared with the much slower Safari 1.2). Camino is fast to start, but then it joins its sisters Mozilla and Firefox further down the list. Neither Mozilla, Firefox nor IE perform very well on Mac, being generally slower than on other operating systems"

(On the Windows Platform, in THAT test alone, it took 4 of 7 total categories... nuff said on that account! Considering 90% of the world's computers run Windows based Os' (hopefully Windows NT-based ones by now)? That's saying a HELL of a LOT!)

&

2.) Opera is definitely the "least attacked/most secure" of the "big 3" browers'-wise (IE, FireFox/Mozilla/Opera) out there...

* :)

So, unless somebody can show us otherwise here, I will stick by those statements!

(They ARE why I like Opera better than the others in the "big 3" of web-browsers & I am mostly a "Pro-Win32" guy & admit it... though I like & finally respect Linux 2.6x core with KDE on the desktop, & really do respect what MacOS X has become as well!)

APK

FWIW, User JavaScripts is the Opera version of it, and it has a Greasemonkey compatibility mode.

Yes, I should've mentioned Opera. It's not 100% GM compatible but many GM scripts will work. Here's a page with some Opera-specific scripts (that page also links to the main Opera script repository), including a GM emulation library (implements various GM_* functions, and adds a few hacks for compatibility), but I ran into some implementation issues I documented here, about 2/3rds of the way down the post.

How about putting aside that Opera is ad supported, and just debate which browser actually is better. all the arguments I see against Opera is "its not free". Personally I dont want to configure and download 15 extensions every time I need to reinstall the browser. I want a sane default configuration and lots of built in features. Shouldnt Firefox be alot faster than Opera since its bare bone? http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html (warning, old article). And just think about it, which major features most browsers have didnt Opera come with first?

Well I can't promise you any more details from this link, but it does comprehensive standardised speed tests (in that they're all done on platforms of comparably identical speeds - not to some software company's in house methodological standards). And Firefox has an extensive range of plugins which allow you to tweak CSS data. It handles Flash blocking a bit better than Opera, i.e. does not require to refresh the page to play Flash. And it handles necessary ActiveX like Gmail a bit more cleanly. Tweaking the "about:config" options is a breeze, and regular updates do their best to counteract security holes. That said, Opera is faster and you clearly know the benefits. Though I prefered v. 7.54 over the look and feel of 8. But I'd use Safari whenever it's an option, and have no interest in browser flaming - as if anyone would :) /*general remark, not to your personally, or at all*/

There was a special offer for readers of the german magazine Ct which gave you an immediate Opera 7.54 license and a 8(11$) upgrade offer for Opera 8 (that is, a full all-OS client license!).

11 $ almost like for free when it comes to software.

I think Opera offers the best and fastest browsing experience (look here)

Dammit, borked link, really sorry...

here should be a valid one
I just can't understand how Slashdot manages to break these links that way...

We have the same problem with javascript, only that is 10 times more disturbing because if javascript was actually the same all other the place web surfing could be enhanced so much. The only reason people don't like javascript is because the popups, and that's not everything in javascript.

• Popups, of course
• Stupid effects (shitty animated gifs following cursors anyone?)
• Messing with browsers (resizing, changing parts of the global UI, alert boxes)
• Code design so bad that browsers grind to a halt (oh, i so love seing my CPU usage skyrocket to 100% and stay there because i opened a bugged page)
• Slowing the browsing
• Disabling the browsing altogether because of non standard or stupid scripts (mmm, yummy Javascript links, I mean anchor tags are certainly not hip enough for a damn link are they?)
• Probably many other i can't think of right now

FUD, lies. Opera's JavaScript support is excellent, and Opera supports more CSS than any other browser.

"I am becoming disenchanted with the direction that Opera Software is taking. Opera is becoming more bloated and more buggy with each release."

Opera 8 is even faster than previous versions as well. I have no idea how you can be talking about "bloat" and "more buggy", when clearly, they are fixing stuff like mad, and with three betas and countless previews in addition to that, Opera 8.0 is an extremely solid release.

"Instead of fixing bugs, new features are being added, new features that themselves contain additional bugs."

But so what if they add new features? It's a good thing! Opera is expanding. They can afford to hire more devs, both to add new features, and to fix bugs.

"Why do I need yet another mail reader in my browser?"

"On the other hand, I can get FireFox to have similar functionality to Opera only by loading a bunch of plug-ins."

Not really. It might have been at one time, but basically owning the browser scene for so long made it lethargic in comparison to newer browsers. (Or even Links.)

If you're just looking for benchmarks, I'm sure you can find instances where IE is fast(er) than another browser, but it's also likely the other way around.

Unless you really DO mean SoaB terms. Or if you are one of those that believe it is the only web browser.

you mean this

In case you don't know, the above poster is refering to PNG. PNG was supposed to take over for GIF when it was discovered that GIFs were patent encumbered. PNG also blows GIF out of the water in that it extended this to support an alpha channel in all images, allowing you to "fade" things with the background.

Think about it this way... You know those icons with drop shadows at the top of Slashdot? If they were PNG's, you could swap them across any background and the icon would look great, the shadow would fall correctly. You could anti-alias edges without worrying about what the background image is. You can layer multiple images on top of eachother so that the front page of websites don't have to be chopped up into millions of individual images. And it all just works.

And Microsoft promised full PNG support in I.E. 4. Let me repeat that, I.E. 4. They bragged that they were going to be the first to implement full PNG support. They're actually the last. By about 7 frick'in years.

As a rough guess I'd say their lack of PNG support has cost over a million hours of web designer headaches. But they couldn't afford to put one lousy intern on the task of adding alpha channel support to PNG support. Which they promised in I.E. 4. Let me repeat that, which they promised in I.E. 4.

They even have a perfectly suitable though terribly hacky series of workaround, using javascript. If they just fed their PNG's into their own functions which you can call through javascript, you're golden. But no, they've had to have broken PNG support for the last 7 years. Since I.E. 4. Let me repeat that, frick'in I.E. 4.

If there is any reason why webdevelopers hate Microsoft, this is it. PNG support. I would guess on a big project it would shave an hour off everybody's day, for everybody who works with images. Hell, people were shouting that they would pay Microsoft to do this. People volunteered to do this for them. But no, they "couldn't figure out how to do it," for 7 frick'in years.

Push it out to everyone. I don't care if they're on XP, ME, or OS9, proper Alpha Channel PNG support would save a ton of time. It's about bloody time.

Opera supports it. Mozilla supports it. Firefox, Konq, Netscape, Safari, iCab, and Omniweb support it. The Dreamcast and Web TV browsers support it. Everyone but Lynx supports it. Oh, that is everyone but Lynx and frick'in I.E.

[/Rant]