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If you go to the DisruptJ20 website and look around a bit, you'll see that they distribute publications that include how to fight with riot police and armored vehicles—I suppose in case enthusiasts want research to write a screenplay or something. For example, the "Egyptian Tactical Pamphlet." https://www.indybay.org/newsit...

Yes, there are times Godwin's law should be applied. And when your government is reading your mail (email, phone calls, social media). and monitoring your travel (street camers, license plate scanners on police cruisers), and your police are being militarized.

Exhibit 1: Listening to your communication
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/354590/greenwald-nsa-has-trillions-e-mails-and-phone-calls-betsy-woodruff

Exhibit 2: Monitoring your travel
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2013/07/28/18740565.php

Exhibit 3: Militarization of police
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bradlockwood/2011/11/30/the-militarizing-of-local-police/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/4203345

***

Essentially, the only reason most American's do not realize they are living in a police state is because most American's are decent folk and indoctrinated to submit to authority. As such, very few American's ever conflict with the state on a level to feel the police state.

The deranged genocide of millions is NOT a requirement for a police state. While Hitler and Stalin killed millions, much of the Soviet Republics police state history was not under the auspices of genocide. A police state, by necessity does not need to be a deranged murderous state, in order to be a police state.

So yes, with all of that happening. I think we've reached high time to be justified in enacting Godwin's Law.

They've been in the news.

Where is this track record of the Swedish justice system as subservient to US interests? You do realize that Sweden gladly turned a blind eye to The Pirate Bay and US copyright concerns until The Pirate Bay until the founders hacked Swedish systems. And they weren't charged for any copyright infringement.

http://rt.com/news/pirate-bay-hacking-fraud-003/

I didn't accuse Assange of threating to kill someone. I stated that his former partner made that accusation. I stated a fact. I didn't claim to have direct knowledge if it was accurate. But it came from his former partner and supposed best friend. It should be noted that several people close to Assange left Wikileaks to start a forked project because they supported the ideal, but not him.

The third accusation isn't bullshit. It was widely reported.

http://www.ufppc.org/us-a-world-news-mainmenu-35/9874-news-assange-falls-out-with-rights-groups-as-us-presses-allies-for-investigations.html

You state that Wikileaks was very useful for mankind, but he refused to release tons of leaks given to him. His partner outlined how the entire purpose of Wikileaks was to funnel money to Assange, and that the ideals of transparency and whistleblowing were secondary.

You may also be interested in this link:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/12/07/18665978.php

'A massive national and international organized plan to privatize education has been implemented over several decades. Billionaires, such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Broad Foundation and the Pearson corporation among others, have infiltrated hundreds of governmental bodies including school boards, city councils and our local, state and regional governments. They seek to turn our education system into a profit center worth tens of billions of dollars`.

sh!t like this

Slashdot is an adult-friendly site. You can spell it out; if you fucking swear you won't be automatically modded down. In fact, we have one user who swears every time he posts (if from nothing other than his name, but generally it does include the content as well), Profane Motherfucker (564659).

The US is bad (and getting worse)

On this we strongly agree; would that it were not so. I think we've caused more humans living on this planet to suffer in real terms through our actions. And I don't mean merely military actions; I'm also talking the unpayable loans (as Greece is finding out now) from central banks, like the IMF, World Bank, or ECB. Any time you get a central bank involved that is larger than a sovereign entity, it will determine a method to extract wealth from that sovereign entity.

I heard news reports several weeks ago that the Greek police union had issued warrants for the arrest of international bankers, if they came into the country: "the Federation of Greek Police accused the officials of '...blackmail, covertly abolishing or eroding democracy and national sovereignty'". I haven't heard anything since; a search found nothing more than the above, but I did come across a well-written piece about Greece's plight from someone in the Occupy movement. It quotes John Perkins (author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman") as saying "Greece is a classic example... These events are classic cases of what I detail in my books..." Some good info in there; enjoy.

Oh, that's ironic. Not a very effective protest of corporate greed, paying royalties, buying something made in China. Stopping fascism is in large part done by people being aware of their participation in the system and opting out of it. Someone needs to make a free version. Maybe base it off the original. Not the movie version.

Something nicer than some DIY versions.

I suppose you could illegally copy the design...

Are these originals? mask1 mask 2

Ah, here are some more. And another kind.

another and another.

more

another

Or you could base it on a portrait of Guy himself.

You do know that Anonymous isn't one grandly unified body, and that it's made up of individuals who may have slightly differing opinions to the rest?

And so it comes down to which individuals have possession of the files.

Anyway, we're talking about Anonymous, not Wikileaks.

For which a significant portion embrace the Operation Payback Manifesto. which says, in part:

We support the free flow of information. Anonymous is actively campaigning for this goal everywhere in all forms. This necessitates the freedom of expression for: The Internet, for journalism and journalists, and citizens of the world. Though we recognize you may disagree, we believe that Anonymous is campaigning for you so that your voice may never be silenced.

They think that this is a good idea because showing up in crowded areas and making a disturbance is an excellent way to remain anonymous.

Your post seems to suggest that Anonymous is smart enough to not show up in person, and that HBGary is only using this as a scapegoat. You seem to think that Anonymous is logical and believes that staying online is the best course of action to preserve their anonymity.

I think you have some reading to do.

They might suspect that but proving it in a Court of Law is an entirely different matter.

And as we all know, if it's impossible to prove in court, they won't ever arrest you and destroy your business.

Oh, wait...

Wow, from twitter to public executions in just a few short years

What are you talking about? It's already begun. http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/03/11/18576256.php

*sigh* I didn't really want to get into this...

If it had been a (R) every news organization would have already covered it ... in spades ...

Looks like coverage to me.

But let's see, what else was covered today? Top stories -- health reform (impacts millions of lives), crash at Jamaica airport, H1N1 supply information, a captive soldier... y'know, important stuff?

Even if you're focusing on internal congressional politics, this is probably a more interesting story.

And hey, big surprise, this story isn't on the front page of foxnews.com now, and isn't "above the fold" (even on this 1200 vertical pixel screen) in their "politics" section. So while I'm sure they love taking shots at Democrats (hey, find me a Fox article critical of Republicans -- it's not hard to find a "liberal media" article, even on MSNBC, that's critical of Democrats) -- even Fox doesn't see it as that important, compared to all the other stuff going on. Maybe it'll actually matter if he succeeds...

Can you imagine what would happen to a (R) if they called someone a WHORE on TV?

Probably the same thing that happened to John McCain when he called this a "Christian nation", which is both offensive and demonstrably wrong. Or the same thing that happened to Ted "series of tubes" Stevens when he showed gross incompetence at grasping the most basic concepts of the Internet, such as e-mail.

Yes, I realize Ted Stevens was eventually prosecuted -- for actual corruption.

When 15 people show up for "Liberal" protest, the news reports "Dozens", when 5000 conservatives do the same thing, "some" showed up.

Yes, in a country of three hundred million, five thousand is "some". Would "dozens" have made you happier?

And if you're referring to the "TEA Parties" which "weren't covered" by the "mainstream media", let's keep a few facts in mind:

1. Fox News is "mainstream", as distasteful as that is.
2. Fox aggressively promoted these events. "Fair and balanced" my ass.
3. Fox took out a full-page ad, then repeated the same lie over and over, that various other news agencies had "missed" that story. I know you'll consider the source, but try to actually look at the facts in this article -- other agencies indeed covered them, they just didn't promote them, as Fox so blatantly (and tearfully -- thanks, Beck) did.

I'd dismantle the rest of your argument, but...

FOX NEWS is balance, when you have a "tingly feeling running down your leg" as fare on the other channels.

...it pretty much devolved into name-calling.

Tell me again how "balanced" Beck is when he blames a gang beating on the rise of atheism -- or when he wants California out of the union. I mean, Bill O'Reilly is a real gem, too, running a segment about how reporters should stop harassing people, leave celebrities alone, etc, right before he goes into a segment of footage of his reporters doing the exact same thing, with no segue... but hey, Beck makes O'Reilly look like a genius saint by comparison.

Whatever bias the "liberal media" might have -- and it doesn't, it just actually is fair and balanced, so liberals think it's too conservative, and conservatives think it's too liberal, but let's pretend it has a liberal bias and I just can't see it -- that hypothetical bias is entirely dwarfed by the kind of unfiltered bullshit, bigotry, and ignorance that so frequently comes

Ah, the shredder story again.

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/iraq6.html

Next up, Iraqi soldiers throwing premature babies out of incubators in the first Gulf War: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2002/03/01/1174261.php

The media is on a pro-Police state trend after their Oakland PD story.

Do you mean this story. Probably not. It did not seem to gain national attention either.

All of you folks (people that call themselves System Administrators/Teachers) going off like " ... yeah, I'd burn his ass" come off looking exactly what you, at 20 years old, held contemptuous. Uncaring cogs of the establishment looking to cover their ass as the result of some kid doing what he thought might be helpful, all the while trying to be transparent and upfront.
Oh!, isn't that the real meaning of HACKER?
Way to go.
Forgetting that this is supposed to be an institution of higher learning, since when do you mace/taze/shoot someone for an illegal left turn?

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2008/09/01/pepper.mpg

Oh, yeah, nevermind, I lapsed in to reason there for a second.
Yeah, make him a criminal instead of bringing him in and instructing him LIKE A STUDENT.

Pleeease - defend yourselves.
Fucking MORONS.

So what? They are involved in all of it, not just at the RNC. They messed with people at the DNC, too, documented here, and here, and here.

The point being that they do this everywhere (with the FBI and other armed bureaucracies involved). So it's the same thing they always do. They aren't doing anything "special" for the RNC.

"Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."
-- Rush Limbaugh. October 5, 1995 show transcript.
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/gophotwrush.html

"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use, too many whites are getting away with drug sales, too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."
-- Rush Limbaugh. October 5, 1995 show transcript.
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/gophotwrush.html

"It's kind of like sentencing. A lot of people say that we have a heavy sentence for this crime and a light sentence for another crime, and what we ought to do is reduce the heavy sentence so it's more in line with the other. Wrong. In most cases we ought to increase the light sentence and make it compatible with the heavy sentence, and be serious about punishment because we are becoming too tolerant as a society, folks, especially of crime, in too many parts of the country."
-- Rush Limbaugh. October 5, 1995 show transcript.
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/gophotwrush.html

Weeds have already been given pesticide resistance through regular polenation and natural selection. This is bad enough because it defeats the purpose and there are plenty of studies that GM crops are harmful to wildlife, including mysteriously disappearing honey bees.

Newer concerns are better written and documented here by a Monsanto whistle blower. We already know that the industry was sloppy because unapproved GM crops have contaminated the US rice supply. It may be that the people who worried about GM crops were right and evidence of genes crossing species is just one of the many things they feared. Genetic sequencing is new and bound to bring big surprises.

It's good practice to keep an open mind but be careful until you know things are safe. A couple of historical examples show how caution works and what industry does when it's not careful. People who hear about the use of lead and arsenic in paint and wallpaper often wonder how people could be so stupid as to have that kind of thing in their homes. The answer is that printers and painters overstepped their knowledge and embraced new toys that made them money. At the opposite end of the of caution is Rontgen, the discover of Xrays. He was very careful to shield all of his sources with lead bricks because he did not know what his newly created rays would do to him. Unlike many of his contemporaries, he did not die of cancer. People continued to expose themselves needlessly for half a century before sane practices were finally codified.

Here's a well-researched article pointing out the myths and problems associated with the corn ethanol industry. http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/08/14/184407 50.php The whole business is a huge subsidy to "big corn" who get subsidized to produce ethanol, and big oil, who sell cheap (subsidized) ethanol at expensive gas prices. Also the ethanol stretches the oil supply, allowing the oil companies to put off building more oil refineries (perhaps forever, as Peak Oil can't be far away).

Don't feel safer just yet, Mr. parent post. Last night in Crown Heights (Brooklyn), a civil rights attorney (Michael Tarrif Warren) and his wife Evelyn (also a civil rights attorney I believe) witnessed a police officer making an arrest. He stopped to observe the arrest and was told by an officer to, "Get the fuck out of here, this is none of your business." Michael replied, "You don't have to talk to me that way sir, I'm a lawyer." He was told, "I don't give a fuck who you are." and walked away. Michael proceeded to take notes while in his car - at this point the sergeant (one Sgt. Talby of the 77th Precinct, NYPD) punched him several times hard through the open window and arrested both Mr. Warren and his wife.

Thankfully, the news got to the local media quickly, and when they broadcast news of the arrest, 200 folks showed up at the 77th Precinct's door (full disclosure: I was one of them). Sadly, this is hardly an isolated instance. It just happens to be the one that happened yesterday.

I realize that some of the sources I'm linking aren't exactly bastions of objective journalism, but if you'd like the other side of the issue, you have two choices:
1) Read the recommendations of NYPD officers on NYPD Rant, the largest message board for NYPD officers. In response to St. Louis ACLU handing out cameras to monitor police misconduct, many recommend "disappearing" the tapes or refusing to work in the area (see here

2) Next time you see police arresting or ticketing someone, pull out a notepad. Make sure to not interfere in any way with the police action - just take down names, badge numbers, police car numbers, and physical description of the arrestee. See what happens. I tried doing this once or twice in NYC, and was told, like Mr. Warren, that it was none of my business, to get lost.

The most interesting thing about the Google Video top 100 has been Loose Change. For weeks it has been the only full length film that isn't short a very short titillation clip (eg Webcam Girls Go Wild) or dubious humour clips (eg funny clips baby fart) that has been in the top 20.

Loose Change is the most popular 9/11 "conspiracy theory" film, no doubt due to its slick graphics, soundtrack and editing -- for an amateur movie it is impressive. However it's not the most accurate movie of its type -- see the discussion on indybay and the detailed Sifting Through Loose Change The 9-11 Research Companion.

Read on for a brief guide to some better 9/11 videos that deserve more attention...

9/11 Revisited: Were explosives used to bring down the buildings? (2006)

This is currently, probably, the best 9/11 video that challenges the official conspiracy theory.

9/11 Revisited concentrates on the collapse of the three World Trade Center buildings and includes news reports from the day and interviews with experts including Steven E Jones, David Ray Griffin and Jeff King. It is available to view online and via Google Video and the Internet Archive.

9/11 Breaking the Laws of Physics (2006)

This is a lecture from 2006 by BYU Physics Professor Steven E Jones on the collapse of the WTC buildings on 9/11. It is available from the Internet Archive. The academic paper this presentation is based on is Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?.

The 9/11 Commission Report (2004)

This is a lecture by David Ray Griffin -- professor emeritus of philosophy of religion and theology, at the Claremont School of Theology in Claremont, California. He has written many books including The New Pearl Harbor and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions on the official 9/11 Report. This lecture is available from theInternet Archive.

9-11 Open Your Eyes the War on Terror is a Lie (2004)

Filmed at the 9/11 International Inquiry (Toronto, May 2004) Open Your Eyes is available on the Internet Archive.

Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime (2006)

This new film covers the links between the US adminstration, the Republician Party and drugs running and the 9/11 hijackers, it is available on Google Video and there are higher quality versions on 911 blogger, the official film site is http://www.crisisinamerica.org/

War and Globalization - The Truth Behind September 11 (2003)

Politically this is the best video on 9/11.

War and Globalization is a lecture, from 2003 by Michel Chossudovsky, a professor of econom

Agreed! It's a very well done piece of documentary.
Except that you can LEGALLY download it:http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/03/1729118.php /

Im very surprised that noone has replied to you yet on this matter, but the gas and bio weapons Saddam used in 1991/1992 against the Kurds was purchased from the US and the UK in the 1980s, including the ability to produce more of them. Yes, the vast majority of WMD that we are looking for in Iraq are tehre because we sold them to Iraq. It is true that Germany and France also took part, as did Russia and China, but for the 1980s WMD were commonly traded arms, and the US was one of the biggest traders in them.

Source
Source
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It's not your ignorance that I object to, it's your failure to read the provided links. The whole point is that no one knows why they were taken and no explanation (besides "terrorism", whatever that means in this context) has been given.

And as a side note; this shut down has effected the non-european sites far more than the european sites.

Of course, no one in Haiti is going to do much about it. They will just continue to chop down what trees remain for charcoal, etc.. They are digging their own graves. This is not a troll, this is reality.

more info

Its nice to see that the ACLU has decided to protect my 5 year olds right to surf the net and enjoy the pron pop ups the these unethical perverts want to send.

It's nice to see that you prefer to let Witch-finder General Ashcroft into my computer and my bedroom rather than take responsibility to raise your own child.

Are you such a bad parent that you think a nanny-State can do a better job?

Your five year-old daughter might well be shocked by seeing porn on your computer; but I wager she'd be wakened by screaming nightmares for a month if she saw these pictures of the results of the Nazi Holocaust. (Note that two of the pictures, including the one of the emaciated children your daughter's age who were subjected to medical "experiments", are served up by a Florida public school system.)

Should we remove those pictures from the Internet to protect your daughter? Turn the Holocaust survivors' "never again" into "never again seen"?

What about pictures of Pol Pot's Killing Fields?

Will throwing those pictures down the memory hole make your job as parent any easier?

What about sanitizing inconvenient pictures of America's Iraq War?

Is you daughter too young for those pictures of her country's "accomplishments"? Shall we censor them too?

Or maybe it's a better idea you sit with your five-year old while she browses the internet?

Reasonable Suspicion can also come up in a political sense. Say I'm at a protest, standing around peacably but I or someone around me is wearing black, or lookingat the cops, or looking at the sky, etc. That would probably be enough to provoke "reasaonable supicion" that I am committing a crime, have just committed a crime or am about to commit a crime since I am, after all engaged in a protest.

At this point the cops would be free to demand my name and thus compile a list of "troublemakers" or arrest me for refusing to identify myself when I have done nothing wrong. This sounds like a handy tool for the suppression of dissent and the shutting down of peaceful protests.

Before anyone argues that this wouldn't happen I would point out that a) in the 1960's the FBI ran a program called COINTELPRO In which they devoted a great deal of time to spying on peaceful civil rights protestors especially Martin Luther King who they sought to "neutralize" as a civil rights leader.

More recently New York City began denying permits to protestors during the period of the Republican National Convention (aa here, Boston Announced plans to shut down roughly 40 miles of roads in and around the city for "security reasons" See also here here also for the choice quote "What is about to happen in Boston is the continuation of the democratic process and the American way, at a time when the country is at war,"

Lastly, during the G8 summit in Georgia, the governor declared a State of Emergency before the summit even began. This executive order made it possible for U.S. Military units to operate in the city and to photograph and harass all residents. See here, here, and here to see how peaceful protestors are treated in San Francisco.

No kidding, check out some pictures here. Click on the numbers next to the Photos label at the bottom of the story, notably numbers 1, 5, and 6. And remember this is Oakland and it wasn't a riot it was a peaceful demonstration.

And as far as Kevin goes, he's had a hard time so I forgive him for it. But I am not going to give stories so these corporate bastards can figure out how to keep people out. I am totally down with the grey-hat backlash that has started - people who are connected with the hacker scene and then go work for ISS or @stake or wherever, and make money off of it. Selling out is bad enough, worse is people who were with the hacker community, start working for security companies, and maintain contact with the active hacker community on an active and "professional" basis.

I am totally down the grey-hat backlash. I see there being two classes - workers and idle heirs. Idle heirs own the majority shares of corporations, thus they control the corporations, thus they control the means of production. I think they have no right to this, and thus I as a worker hacking into a corporate computer am more justified being on there than even another worker following orders from the heir (e.g. working at the company).

I think the fact that hacking machines is a crime is as much bullshit as the fact that more black men in the US go to prison than go to college. Yes, I DO think I have the right to hack anything I want, even if isn't mine - if you look at say bond ownership in the US, about half is owned by 0.5% of the population, and 90% is owned by the poorest 90% of Americans. I could give a flying fuck about these heirs and what they own. I am for anarchy and anarchism - fuck all authority, workers control the means of production. Parasitism like profits, interest, dividends, rent at an end. Up against the wall motherfuckers, this is a stickup!

There used to be a good web page on the hacker backlash against security BS, but it shut down. Here are some links, maybe the page will pop back up. Or maybe YOU can join the movement.

Speech at H2k2

post to full disclosure

post to indymedia

This is good shit

And here are some links about other topics

Chomsky rules

Learn about anarchism

And there's lots of good books on how the working class is regularly ripped off by the man. Just remember - people like Paul Krugman are good, but light. Check out the more radical analysis as well. Workers of the world unite! No gods, no masters!

at least not until proper and proven security measures have been put in place and that there is at least a paper trail to follow in the event that the votes are tampered with (a.k.a. Diebold).

Hopefully they will be as impartial through the use of automation, which is where google gets it's impartiality from.

Considering that Google removed Indymedia from its news sources a few months ago, but retains such worthwhile sources as the RIAA, I say that automation does not necessarily lead to impartiality.

Here is an article titled "Firm's attempt to down hyperlinks an attack on free speech, says EFF" which discusses how Diebold is using the DMCA to force ISP's to remove links to internal memos that were leaked regarding Diebold's crappy software and business practices. You can read the internal memos, for now, here.

Here is an article titled "Firm's attempt to down hyperlinks an attack on free speech, says EFF" which discusses how Diebold is using the DMCA to force ISP's to remove links to internal memos that were leaked regarding Diebold's crappy software and business practices. You can read the internal memos, for now, here.

Check out Recently published Dibold memos and why the EFF is getting involved.

If indymedia is so right, why don't they nor you dare to link to the article that got them banned from google NEWS? Perhaps they are afraid that by linking to this people would make their OWN judgement if the article was really hate speech?

And why are you failing to mention that the removal happened on NEWS search, far less used service thatn that WEB search? web search on google will still result all indymedia articles. Search for zionazi and find you beloved indymedia on the second page.

personally I think that indymedia would be a great addition to the news search. but if their only excuse to hate speach is "hey, others do that as well" - Fuck em.

> The problem is that they are enabling technologies for what could be very, very evil.

So are many other technologies. But I think it is less the question of what technologies you are employing, but wether you are aware of the risks and what counter-measurements are installed.

The states of the EU have enacted relatively strict privacy-laws. And those requiring a national ID are especially precaucious arbout what data is stored and can be connected with the ID. I think that is the critical part.

> "what if Nazi Germany could have done a SELECT WHERE against a central citizen-unit database?"

Unless they didn't had build up a db storing "religion" and "parents" over two, or three generations back in history, it would not help them much. Not to mention, that your friendly neighbourhood "blockwart" is much more effective.

On a side-note: Stalin let execute several million people based on quota, which had to be fulfilled. The randomness of the murdering was intentional. It fueled the fear among people of each other. A national ID, would not add much to it.

Anyway, I think it boils down who stores, what kind of data, and who else has access to it.
I'd say, an ID, unless it enables one to trace your habits, is not "evil" per se.
In contrast, a database with nation wide profiling information, based on buyed or lend books, diving schools, racial or political is.

An national ID would be a "plus" for Total Information Awareness, but you don't need one to do datamining.

Should have used preview.

> Looking at history, America has violent responses in two major causes: mass attacks on civilians/non-combatants, and threats to national security.

Not true.

> Personally, I believe Iraq *does* have chemical weapons.

Of course they do.

On November 1 1983, the secretary of state, George Shultz, was passed intelligence reports of "almost daily use of CW [chemical weapons]" by Iraq.

However, 25 days later, Ronald Reagan signed a secret order instructing the administration to do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq losing the war. Source: Rumsfeld 'offered help to Saddam'

Advertising peacefully is a whole other thing...

Still no evidence of weapons export to Iraq.

The US exported chemical and biological agents, machine tools and ammo to Iraq in the mid- to late-1980s. See, for example here, here, and here. The third link is especially relevant to this topic because it claims that supercomputers were given to Iraq.

Incidentally, this is all in the public record in the States. You shouldn't even need to FOIA for the information.

Duh.

Like, that's an argument? Double duh, ya know?

If you are trying to get out the vote, you try to emphasize the part where the voters are important. I don't see anything sinister in this.

Well, this isn't an argument about "anything sinister" so don't introduce red herrings. It's ultimately about whether or not NAZI Germany was Capitalist or Socialist. You argued that becasue the NAZIs had "socialist" in their name then they must be socialist and I responded that accepting self-description leads one to accept that the USA is a Democracy. You've now admitted (duh) that it isn't and that "The US never clamed to be a complete democracy" while at the same time arguing that it's necessary to talk about Democracy in order to "get out the vote". So, make up your mind. Does the USA claim to be a democracy or not?

hat's easy. Can you tell me to the quarter percent what the federal reserve overnight rate should be? Why? Is that because the book to bill ratio for the semiconductor industry is up or down? What should we set the 30 year T-bill rate at? How about the 10 year? What effect will that change have on the bond market for utilities and telecommunications? The fact is, large parts of our monitary policy are not even determined by our elected representives, but by some one they chose, so its two steps removed from the people, and that's the way I like it.

You're still not answering the question. You've just described the existing system

Which "internatinal law" is that. Name the treaty.

The UN Charter clearly prohibits the use or threat of force by member nations. There are exceptions laid out with strict conditions in article 51 to cover the situation where self-defense is necessary. None of the attacks committed by the CIA as investigated by the Church commission fall under these exceptions. I'm surprised that you don't know this "internatinal law". (Ford's 76/77 presidential revocation of the use of assassinations and the later Order 126333 IIRC have no bearing on the Treaty obligations that the use bears under the UN Charter.

This is your example? This sounds like a regrettable incident, and heads should roll for it, but lets keep these things in perspective.

Do you even read your own links? These people were not assinated, they were harrassed.

Do you read my links? Obviously not. Or perhaps you didn't read enough at the page. Judi Bari and Darryl Cherney were both wounded when a car-bomb exploded under their car. I'd call that an assassination attempt. Luckily they've won a case against the FBI. It's not proven yet who planted the bomb: timber industry goons or the FBI are the likely suspects. Irrespective of that the FBI have been found to have engaged in a systematic violation of constitutional rights.

but to say the American system is fundamentally broken because of this is wrong.

If you run a factory in Nazi Germany, you get nice houses, etc. and control of day to day operations in the factory. You can not sell it, or decide what you want to produce, or do any of the things you can do with a factory in America.

Cite me a reference that shows that German Capitalists during the NAZI's rule were prevented from selling their businesses. So far I've seen no evidence from you that NAZI Germany was socialist.

Indymedia is only moderately left wing.

It's imprecise to pin Indymedia down to a single viewpoint. Many of the volunteers are either anarchists; some are Marxists, a few are libertarian in the American sense, some are trade unionists, single-issue activists, et al. The viewpoints expressed generally range from moderately left-wing, to way off the political fringe (like myself). Occasionally, abuse of the open publishing system crops up when racists and Jew-haters try to recruit. Most readers see right through it.

Indymedia's pretty varied. It may seem like a bunch of whiny college kiddies in North America at first glance, but many IMCs such as the ones in Argentina, SF, NYC, and Israel are doing some spectacular coverage of events and issues you'd never hear about via mainstream media.

Or where a gang of white police offers can be caught red handed on video tape beating a black man with billy clubs but they're set free to go.

A horrible incident of police abusing their power and authority took place on Martin Luther King, Jr. Day in San Francisco. Numerous incidents of brutality, murder, and corruption go unpunished, overlooked, tacitly accepted by politicians and administrators.

And yes, the War on (Some) Drugs has led to most abrogations of the Constitution over the past century. An interesting study would be to determine how many laws that violate sone part of the Constitution and Bill of Rights were passed on anti-drug grounds. That "war" has also led to the creation of paramilitary police forces in North America, caused much of the aforementioned police corruption, and helped lay the groundwork for the establishment of an American fascist police state. This isn't scaremongering - take a look into the history of the Drug War, the innocent victims, the possible connnections to American foreign intelligence (ie, the CIA).

This shit has got to stop. Take the power back.

I know this is somewhat offtopic, but oh well...

Whether you agree with the politics of these websites or not, it is pretty repugnant that the law is now being used to squelch criticism. The story is HERE.

Also here is a rough draft of something I am writing to address the DMCA and to explain the problems with this law to Joe and Jane sixpack. Please suggest changes, criticize and flame etc.. and also feel free to use it. Thanks.

Please. Jon Katz, do you believe that what you are writing is relevant outside of a small group of naive geeks who have never seen beyond a suburban home or a dorm room? I would halfway consider your sincerity if you ever worked on anything besides advancing a journalism career that ends you up in Time Magazine more than anywhere else. When there are protests or movements to organize, neither slashdot nor jon katz appear to be willing to put themselves on the line. I guess that has to do with a certain corporate ownership, huh. Anyway. As Jon Katz pleads with Time and Newsweek to do one more introspective piece on columbine, the independent media movement will be doing exactly what slashdot and katz claim to be doing.

Independent Media Center

SF Bay Area IMC