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US Geeks Recycle GNU/Linux Boxes for Ecuador
An anonymous submitter writes: "According to this article on Salon, geeks involved with Indymedia are recycling 300 GNU/Linux boxes to send to independent media activists in Ecuador. The machines will be used to create free public computer labs across South America, networked with donated wireless 802.11b cards. Anyone wanna chip in to help cover the shipping costs?"
if I only lived in Ecuador! :) I mean they're giving out free 802.11b cards? I'll take some!
Geek used to be a four letter word. Now it's a six-figure one.
They make Linux boxes out of donated parts and volunteered time. They also recycle monitors, motherboard parts and steel.
Please be gentle
If you are not familiar with IndyMedia, it is an extreme leftist "news" organization that is essentially committed to the destruction of America. Basically it blaims all of the world's problems on America and glorifies terrorism, like Yassir Arrifat and Osama bin Laden. It has suggested that President Bush is responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. It is extremely anti-semetic (to the point of being Nazist) and consistently attacks Israel.
If you want to cut a check to these people, be my guest, but you should at least know what your money is going to support.
than journalists.
I really wonder if a few pounds of cardboard will really make much of a difference?
For shame! Slashdotting these poor good samaritains!
Couldn't you post links to the RIAA or something?
You can't take the sky from me...
As much as I enjoy helping people, this isn't really very good news for Linux from a marketing perspective. "Media activists" are generally hairy-armpitted girls and non-shower-taking guys. And "free computer clinic" brings to mind a dank, messy and smelly closet with an aging clunker of a PC inside. Do we really want computer students in Ecuador (and the US, for that matter) thinking of Linux as the bottom of the barrel that will be replaced with "standard Windows" when they have the money?
Oh great. Some "anti-globalization" freaks are sending computers to under-priviledged South American kids. Let's all get out our crying towels... How about we take care of the kids in THIS country first, eh? There are plenty of school districts in the U.S. that could use the hardware/manpower that is going into this project.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
Here's an idea: these folks should talk to their local Air National Guard unit. I've worked with medical missionaries in the past who went to Ecuador for a month (imaging blogging over a 9.6 modem connection over AOL -- only provider we could hook up with -- it wasn't pretty, but that was mainly user error and I digress). These physicians managed to purchase/gather enough supplies and talked the Alabama Air National Guard into shipping everything down in a week or two in advance. Of course, I don't know how to pull those kind of stings, but I know it has been done in the past for medical missions so I guess this effort might differ in the eyes of non-techies, who don't believe that information technology is as essential as proper medical care. I'd chance a guess that pilots are like us in a way they'll look for any excuse to do what they do best. ;-) Good luck, though!
Even superheroes once were losers
well, they call themselves "anti-globalist," so that means, umm..... NOTHING.
That sounds like the stereotypical computer geek to me. I think he's getting his geek-types mixed up. Or maybe non of the geeks I know are stereotypical?
Can I bum a sig?
To call it "GNU"/Linux
You can eat my ass.
Michael, too.
By donating money to Indymedia your helping financing terrorists! That will get you in jail.
Somehow this reminds me of an old Jay Leno bit about humanitarian efforts to give Christmas toys to starving kids in the third-world:
Child: "Kalimba eat potato?"
Humanitarian: "No, Kalimba *play with* potato! See, you can put eyes, ears and mouth on the potato!"
Child: "Kalimba eat potato?"
Humanitarian: "No, no..."
That's about all I remember. It was hilarious, but I can't find the whole routine on the web.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Put up or shut up, AC. What have you done lately? What have you done for "our own" or anybody else, for that matter?
They're getting free computers and wireless networks, while I'm still studying my calendar and wondering when I'll be able to afford to pay the still-exorbitant-for-me prices for a few wireless NICs and switches !
It means they think the world is flat...
Trolling le de un 486/100 en Ecuador!
I read it as "Us Greeks Recycle GNU/Linux Boxes for Ecuador", and I thought it was something to do with sending them away because they had games installed on them.
How about we sell our boxes on ebay, and then send the money to make sure some kids down there eat tonight? I'm aware that these boxes aren't meant to be some poor child charity but this is easily the stupidest shit I've ever heard regarding acts of kindness.
And another thing, semi off-topic, regarding charity. Why is it that people ooh and aww and feel their heart sink when Sally Struthers shows them pictures of starving orphans in some god-forsaken place, but then the next day can be found in a Dillards parking lot mortified that a homeless kid almost touched their Lexus?
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Ask Bill Gates. He has plenty of money and stock
(a stock that does NOT pay a dividend, for all you
mutual fund managers out there).
Have a marijuana inspired week.
There are already a couple of posts here with people griping about how "all this effort" is mis-directed and should be spent on "domestic" kids.
Its never ceases to amaze me how quick so many people are to critique an act of charity.
Somehow kids are more deserving because they happen to be closer geographically/politically/culturally?
Some guys at some location which happens to be in our country have for some reason chosen to help some kids at some other location which is not within out political boundaries. Should they be slighted because they haven't first helped everyone in their neighborhood/city/state/country?
If you think there's someone out there who needs help who isn't getting any try this... help them. That's what these folks here did.
Usted piensa que es malo...
La espera justa hasta una legión de trolls de Ecuadoran con 486/33's golpeó sus orillas!
Hahahaha! Gringo, se numeran sus días!
...Jay Leno has never, ever been funny.
As someone who has traveled throughout almost all of Ecuador, I can most emphatically say that in 85% of the country, these pcs are mostly useless without uninterruptible power supplies. Power regularly goes out for minutes and even hours at a time. Besides that, the voltage is anything but regular. Power spikes and dips are constant. Every PC at the mission in Macas had a ups on it. While it is great that this program exists, I hope that they send all the necessary components to make these machines useful.
News for you, sir: a majority of people outside the US
blame the world's problems on the US. And sometimes they are right.
Attacking Israel is not the same as being anti-semetic.
Indeed, the behaviour of most parties in the Middle East should be stoutly attacked. Rogues the lot of them.
IndyMedia represent a moderately left-wing viewpoint, one that the world would be poorer without.
And I speak as someone who disagrees with their views.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Attacking Israel is not the same as being anti-semetic.
Duh, that's the very *DEFINITION* of anti-semetic! I get a kick out of you left wing types who say "oh i hate Israel and am rooting for the terrorists, but I'm not antisemetic, oh no, not me!" News flash, take a good look in the mirror some time.
As I have understood, dollar billionaires in America can reduce their tax by donating large sums to charity. Is that track really, really well investigated when it comes to GPL'd softwre and as in this case outdated hardware?
I am very interested in any actual case. A top ten list would be interesting. However, I am not sure if it common to publish such figures. Anyone with better knowldege?
Being anti-semitic means you can't live with Jews. This is a difference with hating 'Israel', or more correct, the Isrealian government.
I strongly disagree with the Israelian government, but I have no problem with Jews - you see? I can hate Bush, but have no problems with Americans.
Teenagers these days don't have as much sex as they want each other to think they do.
Indymedia is not the kind of organization I would want to associate myself with, or support even indirectly. Just go to their front page and read about the kind of annoying, wrongheaded activism they seem to support. They are not so much a news organization as a clearing house for far left activist information. These are people that talk about "global justice" when they really mean justice for their particular downtrodden group of the day. On their front page and links off of it, I find evidence of seriously anti-capitalist, anti-Semitic and anti-American sentiment.
While this does sound like a noble project, there are other organizations (as was pointed out by another poster) with similar projects that you might support if you find Indymedia's politics so far left that they're about to fall off the table.
It is certainly also true that there are people located domestically in the US we should consider helping get access to computers and technology training, though I don't think that should preclude helping those in South America by any means, unlike some of the other posters in this thread.
Just a thought.
Also check out this video interview with one of the organizers.
Ugh, more reason why I hate to read the comments anymore.
Why is it people relate IndyMedia to terrorism? Perhaps some of the journalists related to it have slanted views and it reflects that in their stories but how is this different than mainstream media?
Isn't the basis of IndyMedia freedom of speech? Would you rather only have mainstream media owned by 3 gigantic companies?
Now I understand this article is primarily about the charity aspect which *surprise* everybody seems to have a problem with. But the same people critisizing the charity, are the same people that probably have never donated to anything in their lives.
Moral of the story: quit the "Do as I say, Not as I Do" routine.. it's tired.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
From the article,
Anti-globalization activists in Oakland, Calif., are recycling old machines, loading them with free software and shipping them off to Ecuador.
Doesnt something seem wrong with that sentence? How do they "ship them off" without support companies like UPS, FEDEX, DHL or whatever. Dont they all hate those companies?
Also, why are they against free trade? Its hard to get a feel for what these people stand for, and why. They say they are defending poor people, but how? Wont the isolation they seem to want, keep the poor people poor?
That being said, I think that more computers in south america is great. I dont know how this particular group came upon this idea however. Also, the article is a bit short on details, as to where the computers will be housed, and maintained etc.. It also goes on to explain that some will form a wireless network in Quito, but the rest will go to small towns.. How are those computers going to be useful?
It all sounds like a great idea, but I really dont understand these people.. I think they do more harm than good to the very people that they say they want to help..
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
The accepted modern definition of "anti-semetic" is "one who hates Jewish people and/or the nation of Israel." Words evolve all the time, for example the word "Luddite" no longer refers to the actual luddites who were around the time of the industrial revolution. If you want to play picky semantic games go ahead but it is more corect to go with what accuritely reflects modern day usage.
Just ask Taco to verify the IP.
Why would a conferderate in the midst be modded up?
Yeah, okay. You got me. :^P
then go for it. Personally, I find indymedia to be socialist propoganda. I wouldn't get involved with this, but I wouldn't get involved with "Linux boxes for the Aryan Nation" either.
I don't think you can place a clear label on Indymedia, link you can't place a clear label on all open software users. We aren't all commies, and we know that.
;)
Indymedia is so heterogenous, that you need to judge individual projects, like this one, if you want to decide to support them or not. They don't have leaders that make up big plans, they are more like lots of local groups that do what they think is good.
And maybe you haven't read the other comments, but Free Geek is supporting this action - so helping them could also mean helping this project
Teenagers these days don't have as much sex as they want each other to think they do.
Indymedia is only moderately left wing. They're about trying to show world views of current global/local problems. The only reason many people view them as extremely left wing is because they talk about issues such as animal rights, womens' rights, environmental issues, violence/war, and governmental issues. Frankly, if you see these issues as left wing, that's pretty sad. These are issues everyone should be concerned with...and most of the world outside of the US speaks about openly. Indymedia about the closest thing we have to unbiased news in the US. Think about that next time you turn on Fox News and watch your daily dose of sensationalism
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Point 1: These computers are not going to poor underpriveleged kids, these are a bit off-the-edge activists with some fringe anti-American tendencies.
Point 2: No matter who they're going to, 300 computers is insignificant. Many medium-sized businesses are getting rid of old computers in these numbers. And since these computers aren't going to help poor kids in schools learn technology, it has no effect. Not newsworthy. I've personally disposed of hundreds of computers, and I'd always put a nice package of freeware on the hard drive before sending it away.
Point 3: The only reason this is happening, is to get some good press. This isn't a "helping a child" story, or a "rejuvenating a country" story, or anything like that, but that's how it is being reported. I'd like to see how many millions of dollars of financial support our government spends in the same country, yet totally goes unreported and uncredited.
...
I'm looking to get into Linux _and_ get more nitty-gritty experience with hardware....... I don't suppose there's anything like this in NJ/NY? I'd gladly volunteer my time with an effort like this, in exchange for some hand-holding and with the product of my efforts ultimately going towards a good cause.
I guess these geeks never read "Animal Farm", "The Communist Manifesto", "The Ugly American", and discussed them anyone who lived in a communist country.
To them, I say "Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condenmed to repeat them".
I learned these lessons... They were not pretty. Matter of fact, they were pretty horrible. I for one don't plan on re-enacting them!
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
As a note of caution:
My own experience doing this (built a computer lab in Nicaragua) sort of thing suggests that these folks will run into many political and economic complexities in the places they go to install computers e.g.:
In any event, I hope everyone involved will learn a lot from the process and it will motivate more geeks to get involved with those who have much less than themselves (not the least of the reasons being that it makes you happier).
From the article:
..300 computers that are being shipped to Ecuador will stay there; some will be used in Quito, the capital city, where activists will also set up a citywide wireless network, but many will be sent to various towns and villages all over the region. "It's interesting because on some level you might say these people don't need computers -- they need clean water, housing and some sort of economic base that's not exploited," Henshaw-Plath says. "But we're saying that giving computers to the right people, that's the tool to get that social change."
I can tell you for a fact (I come from Ecuador) that the people there DO need clean water and housing, along with EDUCATION in order to actually USE these computers and the wireless network.
Without this knowledge, the people who they'd like to help won't know and eventually won't CARE about the computers.
I'm sorry but I really believe that these people are out of touch with the common person in Ecuador..
From the linked article: Project to ship a container of 230 refurbished computers to Ecuador to extend the technical capacity of civil society and the anti-globalization movement leading up to the anti-FTAA protests in early November.
While i'm all about helping people with noble causes who are less fortunate than i happen to be, supporting an anti-globalization movement isn't really my idea of helping all the poor people in their country who don't share their beliefs.
This is kind of an aside but globalization (i prefer "globalisation" myself) is a good thing for poor countries in that it allows 3rd world nations access to 1st world markets, such as agricultural markets (they don't currently have access to these markets as 1st world nations spend about $300,000,000,000 (yes, that's the correct number of zeros) per year on subsidising our own agricultural producers (ie artifical barriers to market presence). The same is true for textiles. i'm not saying Equador's economic/political woes would be cured by access to global markets, rather that non-global markets tend to hurt small and underdeveloped economies much more than it helps them. For every Mcdonalds that moves in there're a million farmers who are now able to sell their goods for a great deal more then they could have ever dreamed to have done in local street-markets...
Don't get my wrong, i'm not advocating throwing away computer parts instead of donating them, just to remember that helping "poor people" doesn't necessarily help *all* poor people. Yes we should be helping our brothren, but just keep in mind who we're supporting... :)
-tid242
With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy and with science. --Carl Sagan
If you are a Black muslim, he is very anti-racist. Just don't ask him what he thinks of whites, Christians, or Jews.
I don't know the story fully, but neither of you showed support for your claims. If I claim to be anti-racist, and print decisivly anti-Jewish slants on all my articles, one might draw the conclusion that I was anti-semitic. Do they claim to be anti-racist? Do they back it up with well rounded journalism? Do they not really say, but it is obvious by their well rounded journalism?
"I am not racist, I had a black friend once."
-Anonymous
The machines will be used to create free public computer labs across South America, networked with donated wireless 802.11b cards.
Their project is being implementar just in Ecuador, not in the whole continent.
BTW: They should focus on helping other people, not on their useless agenda, they are not going to be able to stop any continent-wide agreements, PERIOD.
If they refuse to use their resources to help people (like giving computers to a public school), they'll be proving that they're a much bigger part of the problem than everyone else in their country, because they are moving computers across continents just to have their little comunist ideology-spreading network, instead of helping poor people.
Useless activism *doesn't* help people, what the third world needs now is less corruption and more *serious* representation, not some whiny geeks speding resources that could be used in places like public schools. If they want to fight against ALCA, then they should become (or support) politicians, very polite and eligible politicians, not whiny bearded communists that will never get elected because they don't look like help, they look more like a threat.
That their plan to fight against globalization is to ship high-tech devices "downhill" (economically speaking) from the US to Ecuador. This is exactly what multi-national companies do but I guess this is a "good cause" so who cares about the means...
Regarding the boxes. They are all donated either to ACCRC in Oakland or FreeGeek in Portland. We spent the last several weeks going through all the old lower end boxes they had and trying to make workable boxes out of them. Because we were getting together 235 computers we lowered our standards from what ACCRC or FreeGeek normally will send out. The boxes range from 100 mhz to 333mhz P I's and II's. Our goal at accrc was to get 64 megs of ram but freegeek doesn't have quite the resources that accrc gets from the bay area so they used 8meg edo simm's which means the box only gets 32megs total. All of the boxes have NIC cards, 1 gig or better hard drives, and a video card. There were sound cards in a bunch of them but we didn't have the time to go through and configure them. The same goes for modems, we actually tried to add modems but if kudzu didn't find it we just left it in there unconfigured and moved on to the next box.
The final setup we used was based on a netinstall / net boot system that the freegeek folks have put together called lessdisks. After a little pain recompiling the kernels to make sure we had support for all the random ethernet cards we got the install process really streamlined. We'd make sure the box had a hard drive, ram, video, and ethernet. Then we'd pop in the netinstall disk. It boot up using grub and our kernel would just nfs mount from a local server. Everything else was pulled over the network. We had scripts for formatting the hard drives which just set everything up with boot, swap, and one big main partition. On the server we had a clone of a server which was used as the base for each install. After everything was copied over we ran a bunch of scripts which tried to detect all the hardware. We then had like 4 questions which we need to answer on each box to detect the sound card, video for x, and mouse. This process made doing a couple hundred installs MUCH easier. Because we were finishing up the software configuration at the same time as we were rolling out boxes we have another option in the lessdisks install to do an rsync update. This let us fiddle with the spanish configuration and setup until two days before we packed everything up on palettes.
We used ICE for the window manager, Rox as a desktop, and KOffice for the basic apps. KDE, Gnome, StarOffice, and Mozilla were all way to bloated for this class of machine.
If you're in the Bay Area or Portland and are interested we will be working on sending more shipments of computers to south america in a few months. Please send me an email, evan at indymedia.org if you want to be notified when we start.
The power of technology is manifest in how it is applied within the social matrix.
nuff said.
But what are these policies that have enraged the Muslims?
And why are they the fault of the Bush's? Bush had been in office a little over a year, and the specific attack on the WTC was in planning for more than a year. It is easy to say, and based on nothing more than common wisdom (very rarely correct), but Bush, and his policies wouldn't have even affected anyone when the planning started.
The Muslims have already stated that all western society must fall. Bush, either one of them, haven't created the Protestant, or more generically, the Christian, ethic. These are the things that the fundamentalist Muslims were attacking. Unfortunately for all the atheists, Muslims don't see a big difference between the two groups, as they are all infidels, and deserve to die.
The nerve gas isn't going to reach here, so where is it going to go?
There is an awfully big difference between responsible socialism and dictatorial communism, dimwit.
Sheesh, people need to grab a bit of perspective here. They're talking about doing a bit of work to help out the needy in a poor country. From the response you'd think they were throwing Molotov Cocktails on the White House lawn.
People need to go have a walk and clear the dogma from their heads if they really think this is somehow an evil conspiracy.
Big time. Thanks for posting.
Indymedia is only moderately left wing.
/me chokes on my diet coke. You must be pretty damn left wing yourself if you think they are only "moderately" left wing.
Dude, they are INSANELY left wing and unbelievably biased. I've never seen any site that selectively examines information like they do. They've never met a conspiracy they didn't lap up.
but then I say the "gimme" button.
They won't take your computer, but they'll take your money.
It'd be a nice fantasy if people could donate their old hardware to third world countries, but when it comes down to it, either you can't because it'd cost too much in tarrifs, or you have to go through a non-profit organization that's really all about making money and bilking gullible people with good natures.
What is this GNU/Linux, that they are using? I didn't know that GNU, had it's own Linux Distro. Does this mean that they are nto working on the herd anymore?
While I normally try to convince anti-globlization activists of the merits of globalization whenever I can, this time I will hold my tongue. How can plugging a third world country into the internet be seen as anything else but furthering globalization?
If there are group like this in New York City, I would love to volunteer my spare parts and time, all the while chuckling to myself about how it furthers my agenda and not theirs.
Besides, if developing countries end up with an entrenched linux market share, MS will be pressured to build a compelling Switch campaign, a la Apple. The ensuing competition benefits the whole world.
Always gets at least +2 Informative.
Yet an actual historically aware post gets labeled Troll.
I love this moderation system. Something based on nothing but supposition and strong sentiment gets an informative, something based on history gets a troll.
The attack wasn't aimed at Bush. It was aimed at western civilization as a whole. The same things that make us a target for attacks about being arrogant (uneducated spite at our icon status) make us a target for people attacking the icon.
There's no such thing as responsible socialism; then again, the same sort of people who talk about bullshit like "democratic socialism" (what's so democratic about having the bulk of your income redistributed to losers and others who don't want to support themselves?) also refer to the soviet bloc, china etc as "state capitalist" societies. Yeah, that's not a contradiction in terms...
There is an awfully big difference between responsible socialism and dictatorial communism, dimwit.
Of course there is... Dictatorial Communism is Pretty Horrible, while Responsible Socialism is merely Slightly Horrible.
I on the other hand perfer to be free from the tyranny of elected officials buying votes with my bread.
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
This isn't anti-American. It actually raises a valid point.
Where is the -1 Troll you insensitive arrogant American mod.
Come on, moderators, can't let this gem get viewed by people that can't think for themselves.
since when its ecuador a communist country?
Troll or not, the OP was basically correct in marking IndyMedia as a far leftist organization, in whose eye the US can do no right, and other destructive forces can do no wrong.
One article: http://rochester.indymedia.org/media/00/00/00/61/
On September 3, the U.S. Navy unleashed another terrorist assault on the Puerto Rican island of Vieques.
They are talking about practice bombing on a range. The use of the word terrorist is deliberately inflammatory, and completely incorrect. As to whether the Navy should have a pracice bomb range on that island is another thing entirely, but using it with the blessing of the local gummint is NOT a "terrorist act".
[snip]
Daily and nightly demonstrations have been held at the Navy's base, Camp Garcia, and have continued unabated despite brutal attacks from Navy security forces and at least a dozen arrests. Activists continue their courageous acts of civil disobedience by infiltrating the range and putting themselves directly in harms way, acting as "human shields" against the bombing.
Infiltrating a military base is a sure way to get arrested.
"Brutal attacks"? Proof please. If you fight back with a cop, or military security police, you can expect to get thumped in the head.
"Courageous acts of civil disobidience"
well...fine. Again, the protestors can do no wrong, and the evil military can do no right. Curiously, no mention is made anywhere that I can see of the innumerable acts of good will that various military forces around the world have done to help people. Hurricane rescue, fresh water sources, schools. Ah well. Obviously, those things do not count.
[snip]
Puerto Rico for the Puerto Ricans!
U.S. Military Out of Puerto Rico!
From cpcml.ca (Canadian Communist Party- Marxist Leninist)
No further explanation needed...
I did not pick out this particular article as being the most inflammatory on the website. This was merely pretty much the first I came across. IndyMedia apparently allows any and all individuals to write, and publish, an article to their websites. However, I did not see anything promoting a pro-US, or pro-Israel, or pro-corporation stance. Being pro-US may or may not be a GoodThing(tm), but if you are going to allow anyone to publish anything, then do that. Not only anyone that agrees with us.
When donating time, money, expertise to an organization, be sure you know for what and to whom it is actually going for.
A. It's not just a man helping someone; it's an organization of activists that has some rather extreme viewpoints, that some of us don't trust. They're asking for our money, so we would do well to examine them carefully.
B. The "needy" in this case can be defined as "friends of Indymedia in another country". We're not helping some starving kid here. I wouldn't give the editors of Indymedia a computer if they wanted one. Why would I want to help them give one to their friends?
C. The feasibility of the project needs to be looked at as well. Does this project make any sense considering the country's electrical grid, laws, politics, and Internet connectivity, or is it just a political gesture? I suspect it's the latter.
Dogma, BTW, is an established viewpoint created to be repeated without scrutiny. What you're seeing here on Slashdot is "skepticism", which is a whole different animal.
There's no sig like this sig anywhere near this sig, so this must be the sig.
You got it right there buddy!
If I give some 'disadvantage' youth a computer, he's less likely to carjack my SUV by throwing a cinderblock through the windsheild.
Instead, he'll rip me off on ebay! Much much better!
Everyone wants something in return. The churches runnig shelters want converts, this particular group of free-timers wants to fight globalization. I prefer to give directly to the poor, in the form of dollars for forties.
Blar.
anyhow, keep up the good spirit ;-)
Partners in Solidarity here in Xela did a similiar thing a few months ago. Matthew Rutman arranged for about 50 old computers to be sent to Guatemala. then, at the Centro de Internet CELAS Maya, we switched them over to a trim Debian Linux installation, but including a SpreadSheet, WordProcessing, Email, Browser, etc. They are mostly P200 with 32MB ram. The lack of surge protectors or ups's has been a problem, as several monitors and machines have been fried.
The rest of the world, who think Republicans and Democrats are quite extremely right-wing, would classify them quite moderate left-wing.
Of course, they have no problem taking our money, do they?
While I normally try to convince anti-globlization activists of the merits of globalization whenever I can, this time I will hold my tongue. How can plugging a third world country into the internet be seen as anything else but furthering globalization?
I think you're confused.
'Anti-globalization' activists aren't against greater communication and information exchange. Indeed, many are anarchists that would like to see all borders fall and all imposed limits between various peoples disappear.
They are, however, generally against the consolidation of global economic power among a power elite who socialize costs while privatizing benefits. At the moment, globalization seems to be more about extending Western economic power and authority than really improving the lives and freedom of all people.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Muslims are now Jews?
or don't I understand Semitic correctly? (I might not, in all honesty)
And I didn't say all Muslims, I said the Muslims. It should have been obvious that we are talking about the ones that attacked the WTC.
Fundamentalists can't ever be associated to tightly with the parent group (unless they are all fundamentalist), and I tend not to make that mistake in my thinking, even if I do in expressing my viewpoint.
Sending food ruins local economy as it works as would dumping of say memories into this country.
colombia used to produce alot of it's own wheat. back in the 60s or 70's the us started dumping wheat on their market left over from subsiding
farmers in the us. this infusion of wheat dropped the price of wheat in colombia to the point where farmers couldnt make any money on it. the farmers had to produce something to feed their families.. you can guess what that something was. now we are opressing them with a war on drugs.
-- john
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
They are sending the computers to Ecuador specifically because they are protesting the Free Trade Area of the Americas there. Free trade involves killing subsidies and tariffs, something I imagine "anarchists that would like to see all borders fall and all imposed limits between various peoples disappear" supporting, not protesting.
Globalization by definition involves the elimination of barriers between peoples and places. If this group, by donating computers, wants to ensure that globalization benefits everyone, not just the rich, I'm all for that. That's hardly "Anti-Globalization." Anti-Globalization is against the spread of capitalism, cultural imperialism, loss of national sovereignty, multinational corporations, etc. I don't see how this wonderful project fits into that idealogy.
It sounds like these computers will be used for producing additional anti-growth propoganda, and thus will actually work to keep people in poverty rather than fixing up the economically ignorant governments of the developing world.
I've got news for anti-globalists - there has been zero growth averaged across developing countries over the last ten years. And as a result, there is still massive poverty. Despite increasing levels of direct investment, developing country governments have been running massive deficits and allowing inflation to rule. Actually, direct investment in the poorest countries is decreasing, it is only the somewhat-with-it governments of Latin America that can keep investment coming in.
Of course, this is due in part because of the IMF and WB dumping dollars into developing governments without gettign any kind of "adjustments" in policy...so they are half-right to want to axe them.
If you axe the WB and IMF, we will stop supporting corrupt developing governments, and they will have to take drastic efforts to increase GDP growth lest they not get their pay...
n/t.
Free trade involves killing subsidies and tariffs, something I imagine "anarchists that would like to see all borders fall and all imposed limits between various peoples disappear" supporting, not protesting.
FTAA does nothing to drop barriers to the flow of workers to find a better living conditions. It does drop barriers to the flow of capital. It does nothing to ensure that employees will get paid a wage they can live on, continue to have access to arable land to grow food instead of cash crops, or see any benefit from the arrival of foreign operations, but it does ensure companies can move their operations from country to country almost at will in order to maximize profits. The idea that third-world companies will be able to take advantage of North American markets assumes North American companies won't go to third-world countries and squash the local competition first, funnelling the big wins back to HQ. This is the big fear, and it has some basis in reality, as many large Western companies have taken advantage of a lack of strong labour traditions in numerous less-industrialized nations to pay criminally-low wages and maintain conditions that would cause American workers to riot.
Activists in South American nations, among other places, share fears that local economies won't be given a chance to benefit from supposedly free trade, or that the arrival of companies looking to take advantage of the lack of labour laws and tariffs will actually damage and drain societies that, in a fair trade, would benefit. It should be noted that FTAA, and the Bretton Woods organizations, practically demand the elimination of any subsidies and labour protection laws, things that even the U.S. doesn't do and likely wouldn't agree to. Generally, these deals and organizations are less about levelling the playing field than just making it easier for economic powers to increase their growth, as if making money is the most important thing on Earth.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
The FTAA doesn't ensure living wages in the US, either. Minimum standards are each country's resposibility, and the FTAA doesn't interfere with that. Some countries have specifically decided against raising minimum wage to court multinationals, which is their right. In any case, the solution is more globalization, not less. Labor unions are already reaching out to third world countries to improve labor standards, in a mix of altruism and self-interest. They don't want to see workers anywhere abused, and they also don't want to see US factories move overseas to cheaper labor.
The result of trade summits is always the demanding to eliminate subsidies and protectionist policies. As organizations such as the WTO grow in power, the US will be obliged to keep their policies in line. That is why these summits are important, and these protests misguided.
Point 2 - 300 computers to a news-gathering organization can be amazingly significant; 300 computers to schools would be a drop in the bucket, though the long-term payback would still be worthwhile. Sure, most of these machines are Offical Doorstops today, which means that they can run Microsoft Office version N, N-1, or N-2 at reasonable speed, and can't play recent video games, but people running news-gathering organizations need text-handling, email, and simple databases can do amazing things with 486s. A 14.4kbps modem is about 200 times faster than most people type. (And 486s could run Doom, which was really amazing in its day.)
Point 3 - Hey, Indymedia are a press organization - of course they're going to give good press to things that help them get press
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Having said that, though, the protests themselves mainly occur at meetings of Western and other big governments, which generally *are* focused more on extending their power and authority and supporting their big political constituents than on genuine free trade. A Libertarian version of NAFTA wouldn't have been 1600 pages of protectionist rulemaking that shifts the details of who gets protected; it would have been a paragraph or so with a lot of room for signatures at the bottom. The IMF Austerity Rules that get imposed on any government that wants to borrow more money are generally pretty rational, if painful, because they have to get the target country on a revenue-positive economic track so they can get their earlier debts paid back. Unfortunately, however, both the old debts that are being paid back and the new money they're lending tend to be for projects that weren't economically viable, centralize power in the hands of the governments and usually the ruling elites, and if they aren't spent on the military, they tend to be spent on big development projects that are environmentally destructive or at best on Bread&Circuses. And many of these countries either have government-controlled broadcasting systems, or if they do have privatized media, it's still controlled by the Usual Suspects, so having an Indymedia type thing around to provide some alternative to the major media is really valuable.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Tmark is wondering when *he'll* be able to afford this wireless technology. The price of 802.11b seems to have dropped by half in about the last six months; if you're still can't afford it, wait another 15 minutes and yet another brand will go on sale at Fry's.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"responsible socialism"
LOL
Perhaps a bit off-topic, I know, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any companies that actually crush and re-smelt old CRTs, instead of just shipping them off to China?
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I've laughed a bit as I've read some of the trolls on here, and shaken my head at the more serious comments that suggest decent people that have a very misconstrued concept of what IMC is about.
The people that I know in my local Indymedia are all very much in favor of democritizing things. This includes government, media, and trade. (Lately I've been thinking that democracy is a more radical concept than most realize...)
Indymedia was founded around the time of the 1999 WTO protests, which were pro-democratic as much as ore more than they were anti-capitalist. (FTAA and NAFTA are rather the opposite, anti-democratic, pro-capitalist.)
Just so you get a feel of what's actually on an IMC, here's some of what was on madison.indymedia.org today:
- Madison City Council Considering Section 8 Housing Ordinance Tonight
- Digital Rights Management Begins Creeping Into Windows Software, Audio CDs (my article; summary of Slashdot, the Register, eWeek, other sources)
- UW Madison Students Defeat Attempt To Oust Progressive Campus Leaders
- My Summer Vacation as a Delegate at the AFL-CIO Convention
The stories such as these that get featured in the center column are usually of relatively high quality, of local interest, and linked to a longer article. Since joining the Madison IMC I've become one of the center column editors, although I never edit any articles that people have submitted. That goes against our ethics.
We strive for accuracy, passion, and truth. Not ratings or advertising dollars.
-- haaz.
Don't blame Clinton, he was MUCH better at foriegn affairs (Not the sexual kind) than Bush. Bush's entire policy seems to be giving the rest of the world a one-finger salute and some pre-launched incendiaries.
If you compare the number of terrorist attacks against America you've heard about since bush took office with the number occuring over the entire Clinton administration, you'll notice that bush is already in the hole, and hasn't even been in for 1/4th the time yet!
As for laying the blame, America trained, funded, and armed Bin Laden for commiting acts of terrorism against the soviets durring the cold war, and when America cut his funding he blamed them for all the ills of the world. He planned and funded the attacks, and he seems to be getting blamed for them more than the people who did the deed, as I've only heard the names of the direct culprits a few times, but I've heard "Osama Bin Laden" too many times to count.
So you wanna guess which president -created- Bin Laden? Little hint: It wasn't Clinton.
Just bundle an air condition with a tractor. Give good raises to agrarian specialists. Why agriculture has to be so dirty? When dodomo will hit Ecuador, a farmer will find something to do into his airconditioned mercedes tractor, equipped with autopilot. Geeky.
Retards suck. I do.
(not cool on the embedded languages side)
quit When the quit statement is read, the bc processor
is terminated, regardless of where the quit state-
ment is found. For example, "if (0 == 1) quit"
will cause bc to terminate.
-- seen in the manpage for "bc". Note the "if" statement's logic
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