Slashdot Mirror
Germany Accepts Strict Piracy Law
A beautiful mind writes "The TimesOnline is reporting that Germany has accepted a new piracy law, currently the toughest in Europe, which comes into effect on January 1, 2007. From the article: 'Germans risk two years in prison if they illegally download films and music for private use under a new law agreed yesterday. Anybody who downloads films for commercial use could be jailed for up to five years.' Many politicians defended the new law, amongst them Günther Krings, the Christian Democrat legal affairs spokesman, who claimed: 'There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download.'"
From the Fine Article:
Also from the Fine Article:
So, you can get two years in prison in Germany for stealing chewing gum from a shop? Cool.
This is all rehashing rehashes, but it bears repetition lest we find ourselves slowly and finally boiled in this slowly heating water. It's more heavy-handed power and money grabbing by those who have the money and power (entertainment droids and politicians). I only hope one of the first "caught" with their hands in the downloading cookiejar is some son or daughter of one of the anointed government members. Also from the article (emphasis mine):
First of all, what supports their estimates? Secondly, I've still yet to see causal studies whereby there are directly related losses because of illegal downloads. I have seen some convincing studies showing strong correlation between downloading and sales.
That's just crazy, two years!? You wouldn't get that if you went out and stole the DVD itself.
Doesn't that blow... bubbles...
I find it hard to believe that German law allows two years' imprisonment for stealing a packet of chewing gum.
In Chermany, films pirate YOU!
You're wanted at Slashdot. Stat.
Darn. For a moment, I read that as "Germany accepts strict privacy law" and said "cool, some good news for a change"...
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
This is undoubtedly a sad day for justice and liberty in Germany. It's the kind of abuse we generally get when one group of thieves becomes the sole provider of necessary goods and services to the people.
Where are we going to put 45 million expatriot germans?
I just wish they'd give someone 2 years in prison for those stupid VW commercials.
Last time I went to the box office, I wouldn't call it "piracy". Somewhere between fraud, misrepresentation and highway robbery.
Why would I "pirate" something, you couldn't PAY me to see!
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
"There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download."
Wow, you can get 2 years in jail for stealing chewing gum in Germany? They must have one hell of a chewing gum lobby over there.
That would be 'rich, monopolistic thieves'.
And dont be suprsied if we dont get those laws here in the US, or worse... Remember the WTO? They will mandate all other members follow suit.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I seriously doubt that anyone in German has been imprisoned for two years for taking a stick of chewing gum from a shop. Well, unless they were in a politically despised class such as Jews or Historians.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Except for the reality of the situation that one is theft and one isnt..
Must be nice to have enough power to go buy your own laws when you feel like it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Two years in jail for a shoplifting a stick of chewing gum? I'd hate to live in Germany. Why, here in the US you wouldn't even get 2 years if you stole the physical DVD from a store. What ever happened to the punishment fitting the crime?
It seems like an unenforcable law. They are going to have to put 1 out of every 5 people in jail for 2 years, and that's not going to fly.
If you overstep your bounds against the populace, you'll find that, while they might stretch at first, they will soon 'spring back' and you'll find yourself in a worse position than before.
--Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
It seems that piracy is an intricate topic. I have to agree in some part with the software and music companies who want harsh punishments for piracy because they have legitimate gripes. There are people who would claim that the music/software/movie industries have flawed business models and that's the reason for piracy. While the inordinate cost of some of a new album or game is really disturbing, I think many people who pirate these products do so not because the price is too high, but because they'd just rather not spend the money if they don't have to. They're basically kleptomaniacs. Germany went way overboard with the two years in prison thing, but there needs to be some form of punishment for people who deprive software developers of the free market values of their products. Then there's that intricacy again. It may be that the "free market" isn't free at all because the software vendors/RIAA have such a dominance on the market that they can afford to charge crazy amounts of money. So where is the balance between giving people the money they deserve for their creations while making sure they don't dominate the market in such a way as to stifle innovation?
*The most erroneous stories are those we think we know best - and therefore never scrutinize or question.*
I'm sorry, but I just don't think they're quite the same. An illegal download doesn't prevent the 'owner' from benefiting from the origninal. Whereas when you steal a physical object, it does. If I steal a loaf of bread from you, you no longer have that loaf of bread to eat. If I copy the recipie for making that bread without your permission, it does you no harm (unless, possibly, you're the proprieter of a bakery.) I'm not claiming that illegal downloads are morally ok, just that its not quite the same thing as stealing a physical object.
He meant gum crater, a crater on the moon. The German laws for theft of celestial objects are pretty harsh.
This is not a law yet - it's a proposal that the cabinet agreed on. It will only become law if it finds a majority in parliament, which may or may not happen, but it hasn't been voted on yet and Germany is still enough of a democracy to wait for that to happen ;)
Good thing I'm in
Trolling is a art,
Unbelievable. What ever happened to justice? Whatever happened to the principle "the punishment should fit the crime"?
While they're at it, can they make breaking into a server the same as breaking into an office? While breaking copyright seems to have been ignored compared to other petty crimes, all the other digital offenses seem to carry far harsher punishments than their real life equivalents :-/
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
The difference is that the shopkeeper might sue you, while the one you download from won't ever sue you (I assume; since he offered the file in the first place).
This entire law is about unaffected third parties being able to sue it seems.
Holy Crap! Read the second-to-last paragraph:
"Many Germans watch the latest Hollywood film at home before it has reached the cinemas; parents' evenings sometimes end with a showing of an illegally copied film in the school gym."
Public showings in the school? Bad-ass.
Compare this to France trying to legalize P2P via an 8E/mo tax and it looks like it's about time to get out of Europe.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Many people believe that this is due to corruption, it can no longer be attributed to "goodwill" towards the industry and stupidity alone. In any case, it goes way beyond being irresponsible and neglecting the government's duty to take care of its citizens and the long-term effect of this will be civil disobedience and loss of respect for laws in general.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
nt
This is a proposed law which has not been passed yet, and will not get passed for a few more months.
Thomas
Hey, anyone in germany (including me, I guess) - for two years in prison, click here http://images.google.com/images?q=mickey+mouse&hl= en&btnG=Search+Images. I wish bubble gum would come this easy!
Most popular music out today isn't even worth a stick of chewing gum!
"Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
Facts;
1. It's incredibly easy to copy digital media.
2. It's done privately.
3. It harms no one directly and immediately.
No law in the world will stop this people downloading digital media, unless the power of the police is extended to the point that the download behaviour of every individual is monitored.
Unfortunately and utterly unbeliveably and to my utter, inexpressible disgust and revulsion, the law has in fact taken that step, with the new European Data Retention Act.
Welcome to the Police State.
It will be Sony, or Disney, or AOL-TimeWarner, who can grant or deny permission; and they will not be footing the bill for the jail time.
It will be interesting to see what kind of evidence of permission is acceptable, and what happens if someone turns out to be falsely accused of this 'crime'
I am very glad the Germans have strict privacy laws; so that even if you know the IP address the DVD went to, you will not be able to find out who is paying the bill for the access.
...to not buy or steal....
Where whould that put the movie industry?
Need movie entertainment? look for used tapes and dvds that you don't pay the industry for.
Many politicians defended the new law, amongst them Günther Krings, the Christian Democrat legal affairs spokesman, who claimed: "There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download".
Does that mean in Germany you can be sent to prison for two years for stealing a pack of gum? Now I understand how they managed to start two world wars. Yikes!
For half of its adult population? If not you can send them to the USA we are encroaching upon 10% incarcerated in some demographics.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
How dare you mention actual history in a Slashdot post? And historians, no less! Hopefully that moderator will teach you a lesson.
I don't speak German and I don't know German law, but it seems to me that the crucial change behind this plan is that downloading will be criminalized. In the US only uploading (copying & distributing) is illegal. Making it a crime just to possess information has serious free speech ramifications. Does anyone know if downloading is illegal in Germany today?
That's the whole problem - people feel that a lot of the stuff out there isn't worth the asking price. The "asking price", for a couple, is a LOT more than the ticket price ... and it doesn't help that the theatres don't make any money on the screening itself, so they have to gouge on the food concessions.
Lower the price to $5 a head, give half to the theatre so they can charge reasonable prices for eats, and make it up in volume. So Jim Carey won't get $20 million for his next movie unless its really good. The solution to THAT problem is obvious - make better movies.
Well, I'm no german, but I will be living in Germany from now until 2007. I can say this much: german people tend to follow the rules straight through. I've spoken with some young germans, and I've also made comments about downloading 1 or 2 cds, mainly for educational purposes since these cds don't seem to be at the local library. And every time I get a scared face saying "but downloading is illegal!! you shouldn't do it!". So there you are. Germans, IMHO, seem to follow rules no matter how good or bad they are. Once again, that's my opinion.
There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download.
So, you'd get two years for stealing gum?
If they refuse to make the distinction between physical theft and what are essentially software copyright violations then they should treat plagiarism in exactly the same manner.
Man, I knew the Germans were tough, but 2 years in jail for a stick of gum!
What about if I leave the gum in the shop and make a magic clone of it? Still two years? Even though, at best the shop is out a *potential* sale, rather than losing actual stock?
What if I invent a replicator, like they have in Star Trek and I replicate a 90's CD in a time travel episode on a Holodeck. Is that like 2 years in Real-Jail or Holo-Jail? Why does the computer never tell Riker that he can't have Jazz played because its copyrighted?
Suppose it's an episode with parallel universes, and in 1 parallel universe I buy a copy of the CD, and this universe, I download it instead. That's a loss of a sale that happened in the parallel universe. Am I locked up for 2 years in this universe or in the parallel one?
I guess I mean that copyright infringement isn't theft, it's something less, and that the penalties should reflect that crime. The French are proposing 20 times the cost for an infringement and 150 times for sharing it (35 Euroes and 150 Euro fine), which already seems way above the 3x rule.
your money, it appears that the prison industry will be a good start. Is Germany's private prison industry as active as America's? These regulations sure will help the "dark net" and other privacy advocates and developers. Oh well, the majority has spoken. Who ever thought that the leaders of the Fourth Reich would be the content distributors?
What?
What if the users downloading the copyrighted material don't know that they are breaking the law. When someone goes into a shop and takes a pack of chewing gum it is painfully obvious that they are stealing. But when someone downloads something from the internet there isn't a mechanism in place to let them know that they are breaking the law.
Having a law that is so strict without giving the population time to become aware of the same protocols and same methods being used for both legal and illegal activity seems somewhat harsh. This law could cause legal downloads to be curbed sharply to.
Also, what if they download a version of the song that is copyrighted in the US, rather than the German version? Are they still violating any laws?
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
German politicians are very much like every other politician or normal person not awar of the general principles of IT. They are blissfully ignorant of the actual consequences of todays IP laws they pass. The last draft of internet copyright protection law that made it into the real world was a haphazard and naive mess, littered with wrong vocablurary and barely made it not to be a classical 1984 "Thought Crime Law" as the US american DMCA is. This new law is a step closer to that though. ... No word about that in the law.
Brigitte Zypries said it right there though: She can't be bothered bugging the decision boards with such minor details as seperating IP control and access/market control and thus doesn't care about the effects. Politicians have other things to worry about - like the deficit. When asked if it where a proactive DRM circumvention if copying a CD on PC Linux (where current DRM is unaffective) she said something like "Well, in that case I would say, sort of, that if DRM is unaffective it's not there so it's no circumvention in this case."
It boils down to the courtroom again, where it's up to the judge to introduce sanity into the process again. I understand there are some US judges that have ruled the DMCA as unapplicable in some cases, as it's against the american constitution.
Goes to show what we all should never forget: Laws are made by humans and should be subject to perpetual scrunity.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Whether the punishment is appropriate depends on what theory of punishment one takes. If one takes a retributive view, the punishment is unjust, since it is much higher than the harm of the crime. Note that the harm of copyright infringement is not just the financial loss, but the harm done to the state by encouraging a culture of unlawfulness. But it's clear that one download does not cause a harm equal to two years in jail. (Argument: Kidnapping someone for a period of two years causes more harm to this person than the total harm society suffers from one download.)
But if deterrence is the point, then a case can be made that crimes which it is easy to get away with should have extra high punishments, so as to make the expected value of the crime negative. If the probability of getting away is p, and one gains a value V from the crime, then the punishment must have value -W where V(1-p)-Wp V(1-p)/p. The chance of getting caught for one illegal download are, I assume, tiny, say 1/100,000. Well, then, the punishment must introduce a disvalue more than 100,000 times as great as the value of the crime (one DVD). If the DVD is $15, then a punishment greater than $1.5M is called for. Two years in jail might be roughly equivalent in disvalue tot he value of $1.5M, in the sense that it MIGHT be that most people would be willing to stay two years in jail if they were paid $1.5M for it.
That said, the punishment clearly is excessive, and so the above argument is a reductio ad absurdum of the deterrent theory considered on its own.
(Personally, I accept a combination of deterrent and retribution. Retribution sets an upper limit on what it is just to impose on a criminal. But sometimes it is uncharitable to impose the full amount, and one must impose the lower of the amounts required by deterrent and retribution.)
It is amazing how much repeted lies the entertainment industry can get away with. They claim to be loosing billions of dollars, but yet they fail to provide any facts to support there claims. That alone has led me to the conclution that the entertainment industry is nothing but a pack of monopolist liars, i also subspect that they have wide network of polical power behind the sences. They shoud ban lobbing all lobbing, that power has obivisly been abused and is still being abused. I also do wonder how many MP's the entertainment industry has on it's payroll. Since power dosen't come cheap and never has.
(Sorry for spelling errors)
Piracy is wrong. Everyone is in agreement about that. There should be a punishment, but 2 years in prison is ludicris. They should treat it EXACTLY like shop lifting, arrest and fine, in and out in a few hours.
"'There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download.'"
There should be a legal distinction because stealing chewing gum from a shop may lead to a physical altercation and is thus more dangerous. Also, if I steal chewing gum from a shop that means a potential buyer will not be able to buy that piece of gum since it is now gone. If I steal music that same music can still be sold to another potential buyer, so the damage is less, especially if I would not have been willing to pay for the music were I unable to steal it.
so far the ministry of justice has a proposal for a changed law.
that doesn't mean the bundestag will accept that proposal without changes.
at least joerg tauss of spd said there will be further long discussions,
and no simply voting on it. so lets hope for the best.
Huh, in Germany the Paris Convention about audiovisual works does not hold anymore?
AFAIK (IAAL), Paris Convention treats audiovisual works in the same way as books
- you can freely copy/obtain them from wherever you want, if you're doing it for
your personal use. You are not obliged to verify whether your source is legal;
it does not matter, you are still entitled to make personal copy of any copyrighted
material (that is the term 'Fair Use'). Imagine what you can do with the books:
Can you copy a book in a library? Of course, you can. Can you make copies of that
book and sell them? Of course not.
Downloading is legal, uploading is illegal.
Software is a little bit different animal; it is strictly bound to a valid licence.
Even owning a copy without valid licence is a crime.
Hirugato
This brings up an interesting thought. On Star Trek, they have that Replicator thing. If Captain Picard wants a steak, he asks for a steak and it seemingly materializes out of thin air. If he wants a million steaks and that replicator thing can create them all, efforlessly, exact duplicatible copies ... is he _stealing_ those steaks? Where did they come from? Did he kill a million cows? (Or more accurately, did 1 cow divided by steaks multiplied by a million get killed? Were they real or virtual cows?)
So now Mr Picard can duplicate a million sticks of gum and steal them all... _then_ it's just like stealing a million sticks of gum from a shop... right? Well at least it's more like performing an illegal download.
The materialized steak was someone's idea of a steak... at the very least you may be stealing the idea, not the steak itself.
FLR
except for russia
In Germany, you beat piracy,
In Soviet Russia, a pirate beats you!!
sorry.
and, yeah I know the russian dude won the fight.
i'll go now.
did you notice how the first half talks about movies and the fear of piracy,
but the second half only mentions the music industry not making as much money
as they used to?
well, the german movie industry has their own association with a web site at
http://www.bvv-medien.de/, and despide a very, very aggressive anti-consumer
anti piracy campain, they still more than doubled their revenue in the last
five years: 860 mio euro in 1999 vs. 1747 mio in 2004.
I guess noone of the german movie industry will read this, but: if I'm in cinema
and about some movie, and you want to show some ad to me, it should start with the
word "Danke" (thanks). After all I already paid for the movie ticket. Instead they
show some anti piracy ad with people send into jail and about to be raped or similar
stuff.
Despite any situation in Germany, or common practice, 2 years seems almost violent, and definitely profane. I had always thought that profanity and violence were the last resolve of the ingnorant and incompetent?
:)
.mp3 and .mpg files etc. Such an effort would totally thwart the efforts of those that want to stop pirating, or near enough give them a very hard time. Enforcement then becomes a case of having to catch downloaders with illegal material in their possession, and the search and seisure laws should put paid to such crime fighting efforts. When it cost the governments $15k to search your hard drive, only to find you have EFF materials and nothing illegal, they will soon give up the hunt and ignore the law, or change it.
Justice is not served by enacting laws that would punish the very naive among us to the extent that physically violent criminals are punished less for much more damaging crimes. My prognostication is that this will end violently at some point, cops shooting pirating criminals in their homes, or beating them on the way to jail... all because of a Brittany Spears movie.... that was downloaded illegally (despite that such a thing should be made illegal to exist in the first place)
Bad laws bring bad results, and this one is sure to be a fscking hum-dinger!
I have often wondered what would happen if the EFF or other group seeded P2P networks with their own information, but labelled and named it so that it looks like a metallica song or hollywood movie? Without the *AA actually looking at the material in question, all they will find is a record of shared
Obfuscation is a wonderful thing, and it would be worth investigating, IMO. Any better ideas?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
As an entertainment droid, I get a little pissed off by the yahoos (most everybody, in other words) who think it's okay to steal music. 2 years is not justifiable. What WOULD be justifiable is if all the garage bands and dancers and singers and actors and writers and, well, us ENTERTAINMENT DROIDS just took a year off so that you bastards could just all wallow in your own lame attempts at amusement. How much you wanna bet that masturbation would become the hot trend in such a world?
I see your point here, and although I do hold in contempt the entire recording industry, just to play devils advocate here, they do in the strictest sense have a point. Not about the chewing gum thing, thats just idiocy, but about their property. They have posession of something. Whether its music or a stick of gum is irrelevant. You want what they have. So they can ask you for money, and then you (and only you) can have what they have.
Downloading stuff from P2P networks means that you have taken what is theirs, and did not pay the asking price. There are many terms you could ascribe to this situation, and theft is certainly among them. Whether or not you would have bought their property if there had been no P2P networks is irrelevant, you still have something that you shouldn't have by the laws which make society a sane and livable place. And certainly there is a percentage of people that would have bought if they couldn't download, so there is measurable economic harm to them. Of course, they have gone waaaay overboard in their efforts, and the value of their property and damages thereof has been set far too high (says me), but you can still see their point.
I'm not in the habit of taking what I would view to be an unjust situation and sitting back, however. I just think too many people here are trying to justify what isn't justifiable. To resolve this situation, as with any, we need to look at the problems. The major problem is the power bloc that is the recording industry. What is that comprised of? Middlemen, a distribution and marketing network. Thats the whole of it. What I say is to take away their power and their product; artists already have a superb marketing and distribution network available to them. Its called the internet. With recording studios becoming cheaper and cheaper to set up and run, all they have to learn how to do is leverage the power of the internet to their own advantage. Take away the artists, and the RIAA etc have no longer got any reason to exist.
Its like I said to one of my clients there recently, a musician. If you put your stuff out there, it will probably get pirated. But if you charge a small fee from your own site for one of your songs, the people who will be taking that music from you are not going to put it on P2P networks. And the file sharing types won't bother paying, since they are ripping CDs borrowed from friends and so on. There will always be a certain amount of loss, but its easily the best solution for any band or artist. And DRM just hacks off your paying customers, who didn't steal your product, and is only a mild inconvenience for those who would steal your product. Besides being technically impossible, unless someone manages to DRM eyeballs and ears.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Oh, no! Germany is dooming us to an even higher rate of global warming!
http://www.venganza.org/ has more information on how the decreasing number of pirates in the world is affecting global average temperature, and will tell you what you can do to help.
|/usr/games/fortune
I'd give you mod points if I was twenty registered users.
In my opinion, it is high time lawmaking gets more effective to better cope with the increasingly difficult circumstances it works in. Double the number of representatives, double their assistants budget, let no representative vote in several recommendation-making commissions simultaneously. It won't solve all of democracy's problems, but it'd help with the growing incompetence. And compared to the catastrophic effects of laws such as these, the cost is marginal.
In California at least: "Petty Theft - Usually charged as a misdemeanor for first time offenses, Petty Theft is the act of stealing goods valued at less than $400. The punishments for Petty Theft can range from fines of up to $400 and/or imprisonment in County jail for up to 6 months." (http://www.shopliftingattorney.com/)
I presume it's not radically different in other states.
I've heard that DVDs are expensive in Europe, though. Maybe they cost more than $400?
In some European countries the police can't set up sting operations and must not use wiretapping for minor crimes such as suspicion of stealing a pack of chewing gum in a store. For more serious crimes such as robbing banks, murder or downloading a file from piratebay.org , wiretapping is allowed.
Anybody knows if the two years of maximum penalty was chosen to allow for the police to use wiretapping and other means of force?
Tell your friends about xenu.net
That's funny... Revolutions started for less opressive laws.
I mean, these are the laws to support some lesser businesspeople from across the Atlantic, that give nothing to the economy of EU.
Remind me, why were those pesky laws on Copyright enacted? I distinctly remember the United States of America ignoring them for the better part of the century, until it had the positive balance on the so called Intelectual Property.
I had a dream, that India, China, Russia and EU could return to the original shape of IP, like the copyright extending to 14yrs since the day of publishing. I mean, wouldn't it be a poetic justice, to strike The West with their original weapon?
Robert
Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
The problem here is that this law isn't going to be enforced properly.
By sneaking in these laws, they prosecute one or two people in the country every now and then. The laws stay in place, people don't care about them because they figure it "won't happen to them", and the movie/music companies are able to bribe politicians into creating even more ridiculous laws.
If only they would attempt to enforce this law en-masse, they would end up with at least 10% (probably more) of the population in jail. Then people would start caring about this and everything would be set right.
Instead, they're going to slowly introduce even worse laws, but only prosecute a tiny percentage of the population. It is an unfortunate situation.
This law will encourage innovation, or perhaps more importantly, adoption of anonymous filesharing with strong encryption, both in Germany and worldwide.
Is that really what the RIAA want?
I'll probably be modded down for this...
What happened to David Hasselhoff?
GSG
Ehem.... The united states did this years ago... Geez... give credit where credit is due.
A new government agency has been created to enforce the new laws:
German Eradication of Software Theft and Anti-Piracy Organisation
Or G.E.S.T.A.P.O. for short.
America is moving in this direction, and many powerful people want America to move in this direction badly. Messages and security against software, music, and movie piracy are becoming more ubiquitous every year. This is going to start being followed up with follow through, tougher action than what has already started. You better atone yourself while you still can. These people work hard to make the intellectual content that they do, and if they want compensation for it, under law, you owe them it. However, the good news is, free software and other media are more functional, aesthetically pleasing, useful, better, more competitive, and easier to access and use. The future is bright for everyone. Spam has been illegal for a while, but look what finally happened to that.
My neighbor has been nice to share his GM truck ( the work of love and art ) with me a couple of times and SEE - thousands loosing jobs. We must stopt that criminal / terrorist act before anyone catches us. It must be worth of more than two years in jail..
About your signature, the original excerpt is "To be... to be or not to be" which translates to:
0x2B + (0x2B | ~ 0x2B) = 43 + (0xFFFF) = 43 + (-1) = 42
voila.
^_^
Bestechung im Amt gehört mit dem Tod bestraft zu werden.
Corruption in Office deserves to be punishable by death.
No one can tell me that these politicians weren't paid to make this law or that they receive no kick backs for it.
Agreed! It's a very well done piece of documentary.p /
Except that you can LEGALLY download it:http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/03/1729118.ph
Res publica non dominetur
"GERMAN = NAZI" is totally true.
Huh? I don't even have a TV anymore, because I can just go on Internet and read some blogs. And should you be inclined to participate in the new hot trend, well a lot of content to help you along is available free by choice of the "artists" (ok, middlemen). Nobody is interested in your stuff anymore, at least not for money. Face the music and evolve.
i remember the teacher saying no chewing gum unless u have enough the share enough with the whole class. interesting that he used a chewing gum analogy. so you would go to jail for two years for stealing gum? how about sharing gum? i guess all germans are expected buy their own gum and not ask friends for a piece.
if all the garage bands
You obviously have not been paying attention - the bands that are helped the most by piracy are the "garage bands" - they make virtually nothing off CD sales anyway, but they gain from the increase in attendance at their live performances due to the expansion in their fan base.
When music is "free", people are are much more willing to try new things. And new music.
While I think that being incarcerated for theft of most kinds is excessive (and I hope there are considerations for minors [logically the largest set of media downloaders]), we must remember that theft is theft.
I'd much rather a passive internet police force be formed (Not a global one! I do not want to be held accountable to laws I have absolutely no control over of. That would be anti-democratic at best.) than having to add bullshit features such as "trusted computing".
Personally, I think a warning followed by a fine is acceptable for theft that does not deprive the creator of anything. Another issue that should not be disregarded is that many of us are software creators, yet I rarely meet any who want stupid measures taken to "protect" us (again, "trusted computing").
This is really a rant that could be surmised as: it could be worse, they could have legislated a law saying that computers have to have potential backdoors. While I know that it is a rare departure from my usual pessimism, I contend that I hold to my cynicism by adding that, they still might do something stupid. And that is what we should really fear (even if I'm not German, I still want what is best for their computing population).
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
When you download, you deprive the artist of revenue and give nothing in return.
If you tell your friends about the song, you are giving them free advertising. Advertising is valuable. Also you are helping them to sustain their cartel, which is vital for their business model. It might not be the same as a $20 cheque, but it's still a lot more than 'nothing'.
Actually you really are doing them a big favour by listening to their music for free rather than promoting a competing organisation's free music.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
In the Semon on the Mount, Jesus made unlicenced copies of 5 fish and 2 breads and fed 5000 people with them. If Jesus teaches us to copy and share, who are these people telling us to not live as Jesus has taught us?
Did he worry about the lost profits of the fishermen or the bakers? No. Jesus was a pirate and this was the real reason why the jews nailed the poor bastard. Death penalty is the only solution to piracy!
We all know that the war on drugs works.
libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
Law abiding citizens like you and I have no more to worry about than we did before.
This of course assumes that every law is just. So you never think about whether this whole intellectual property business is good for a society as a whole? Politicians must love you.
Mod parent and grandparent down! They are clearly stealing Shakespeare and deserve two years of prison! :)
After all, whether it's a song or a page out of a book or magazine, it's the same thing with respect to copyright law. What holds for one should hold for the other. We can talk fair use, but that's a gray area. Under some interpretations, placing a song on your computer in a directory that happens to be publicly available via the Internet is fair use.
Are all of the supporters of this new law still feeling so smug about their position? Hmm?
Open Source: I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
EVERYONE WAS ON VACATION!
Anyway, ive seen more and more governmental backings of big corperations in the past decade, and it has been just getting worse. US allowing corperations to use emminant domain,
(even indirectly) laws benifiting corperations that allow huge punishments for minor things, This has been and will continue to be a worldwide problem. Money is what allows politicians to get a voice comvincing people to vote for them through lies and propaganda, that money comes primarly from corperations. So the government backs the corperations to get more money from them, to continue to get lies and false promises heard by the people so they get reelected. Its been happening for years, but grows at an exponential pace as its a recursive pattern.
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
Hitler was actually Austrian.
A _Christian_ Democrat said that?
He certainly hasn't read his bible then. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus copies 5 fish and 2 bread to feed 5,000 people! Never once giving a thought to the copyrights of the bakers or the lost profits of the poor fishermen.
Not to mention the illegal healing practices. No wonder they were crucified, but a true Christian would be promoting the sharing and copying.
This Günther Krings is a Satanist in disguise!
the crimimal part is not that bad - most prosecutors will simply drop small cases as not important,
so there is little change. and doing private copies for yourself is techincaly not legall, but
practical not enforceable.
the bad part is this: under the new law internet providers will have to answer to the media industry.
so far we had a real data privacy act, i.e. the policy / prosecutors had to ask the internet providers
for data, and then the media industry could have a look (and use it to start a civil law case).
too bad the justice department gave in and wants to save the prosecutors some work. as side effect
there is no way to stop the media industry from getting that data, there is no control, no one to
stop them from overusing that power etc. lets hope the supreme court will sack that part of the law
as conflicting with the german bill of rights (grundgesetz).
note: so far there is only a consensus within the governemnt and the lobby groups. german bundestag
does not have much power - most politicians simply do what their party tells them to do, as they have
next to no power without the party - but there is still hope they resist and successfully demand changes
before passing that proposed new law.
That is where the large majority of sheize films come from....
-bZj
.sig
Doesn't most EU TORCP/Vidalia end-proxies reside in Germany?
Will this law have an effect on that?
I did, but I think I got away with it.
"So you never think about whether this whole intellectual property business is good for a society as a whole?"
As RMS pointed out, anyone who uses the term intellectual property is either confussed or trying to confuse people. The prase "Itellectual Property" is a blanket that encompasses copyright law and patents, and it also pervays this idea of ownship of ideas. Copyrights are very different from patents, and the two should never be lumped together. Intellectual Property also perpetuates a concept that ideas can be owned. That if two people come-up on the same idea it "belongs" to whoever gets there first, regardless of if any 'copying' actually took place. How can you own an idea, anyhow? It's not a phyical thing. If I give the idea to you, I still have it; unlike a physical product (say, beer).
That isn't to say that I disagree with Copyright. I believe that Copyright is needed; but, the current system is broken. Patents, on the other hand, don't make sense for software.
I fail to see how this has been modded +6 extra funny. It should be modded arrogant/close-minded/bigotry.
The human race is artificial intelligence created using object orientated programming.
What makes this new ruling something to really worry about is the fact that the year after next Germany will formulate the national version of a European directive which says that any connection data must be stored for at least 6 months. Additionally, it will then be allowed for content owners to request this data upon suspicion (no ruling by a judge required). This is putting judicative power into the hands of the content industry while they already have legislative powers (it called effective lobbying). At least there is some hope that this will not hold against the German constitution.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
to make it to /.
i 1st heard about it on the 22nd in german version of the "7 o'clock news". it was reported like this:
"the german goverment got the new copyrigth law under way. after the new its still allowed to make private copies of CDs and movies for relatives and friends. but its illigal to bypass a copy protection. currently almost all DVDs and popular CDs have such a protection. additionally its not allowed to copy obviously illigal media."
i think the article is somewhat missleading. look at it kinda like an assaul charge. if its not that serious you just gonna get a slap on the wrist and fine and maybe some comunity service but if u keep on bashing peoples heads in it can get you some serious jail time.
all the people i discussed the possible meaning/interpretation with agreed.
another thing is all the hollywood movies are dubed over and often this drives me to download a movie becasue aprox. 60-75% of the movies lose some quality/feel/atmosphere when they are dubed over.
FYI: the "Christian Democrats" (CDU) are germanys republicans......or close to it.
This is to teach the Nazi Germans that America and Israel rules
The real reason behind the new German law is to Invade France!
France has free downloads, Germany says two years in jail.
Digital Rights Management - the latest weapon on the battlefield of population migration.
I thought this was brought up before (granted in the U.S. not Germany).
If you steal a piece of gum, you physically take the gum from the store, now the store can't sell it, use it, move it around, look at it, etc.
But if you download music, that is, make a copy of it. Then the original owner can still sell it, use it, look(listen) at it, etc.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
The grey area isn't in the definition of theft per se, but rather in the definition of property. While "intellectual property" can't be removed from the owner, except by actions that are far more illegal than petit theft, it is the revenue of which the owner is deprived. To download a film or album without the author's consent is to remove an instance of his rights as the creator, and that instance holds definite value. While to say that intellectualy property is being stolen is a misnomer, inasmuch as the property remains in the hands of the creator and out of the hands of the perpetrator, a particular instance, with definite value, is totally withheld from the creator and instead given to the perpetrator, and perhaps others. It isn't tangible, to be sure, but neither is credit card fraud or the tracking of accounts, yet both of those are indubitably theft. The author has created a source of wealth for himself, and you are removing an instance of that wealth.
Germany continously moves from a democracy to a lobbycracy. We Germans are used to smaller and bigger scandals of members of parlaments getting money from the industry (for whatever plausible or non-plausible reasons) every fortnight. It ranges from backbenchers to the president of the Bundestag and ex-chancellor...
The article is factually wrong. "The TimesOnline is reporting that Germany has accepted a new piracy law, currently the toughest in Europe, which comes into effect on January 1, 2007." This is not true. Neither has Germany "accepted" such a law, nor is it true that it will come into effect on the date mentioned. On Wednesday, the ruling coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats presented their draft of a proposed law containing many of the things mentioned in the article. This law will be discussed in both chambers of the parliament within the next 6 months. Individual politicians of both ruling parties, as well as many from the opposition have already called for changes to that draft. At this point, one can only speculate how the result will look like and when it will be passed.
Obviously you have never seen the bill of the Enterprise for licensing fees for steak blueprints.
I heard you go to a prison planet if you replicate using a blueprint for which you did not pay the license fees.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
The German youth should start a mass-movement and turn up at the police station, and report themselves in the thousands simultaneously.
The police, the courts, the jails, could not handle it.
I wonder what would happen if I set up a web-site with a program that people could use to record radio 24/7. Whenever a song is played on the radio, one user pr. radio-chanel gives it an ID3 like tag as well as timestamp for start/stop. This information is stored in a central database, which other users may query to automatically split the 24/7 recording into separate mp3 files. Ofcourse, sometimes the radio host will ruin parts of the song, so one might add quality indications to the database as well so that the client automatically could pick a "better" version later etc.
Would such a site be illegal in countries where recording from radio is legal?
'There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download.'
From the "I have no brain but here I am anyway" department. People like this make instinctive value judgements based upon ignorance of history and technology, and that's unfortunate.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download.
But they are different. Markedly so. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, but one is an actual measurable loss the other is a loss in theory. And yes, I have lived as a professional artist. I have as much interest in copyright as anyone.
And who puts people in prison for 2-5 years for stealing gum anyways?
Cheers.
Hello looser evil government people (that dont know what real work is)
Since my wages havent increased 12% yearly over the last 10 years like many govt people, I hereby
like to claim a 'stolen' amount of cash of $100,000 . The corporates who earned massive returns
have the cash, I would like to see them locked up and my cash returned, because in an infaltion economy
everyone DESERVES inflated revenue, even if their business models are crap.
So wheres my tax discounts eh?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I guess the problem is coordinating it so that everyone does it. If only a few people end up going through with it, it really sucks to be them. :P
Perhaps a future date should be set, say in a year from now, where everyone turns up at police stations around the world to turn themselves in for copyright infringement. In addition, no one should take ID with them as leaving all ID at home will increase the amount of work necessary to process everyone - they can't simply hand out fines, that way.
Must be nice have enough moral bankrupcty to rip off people when you feel like it.
Copyright isn't in the same class as life, liberty, or property. Copyright exists in a democracy only only because the voters grant it as a practical means of encouraging the creation of useful content; it's not a property right. And if the voters don't feel like copyright is useful anymore, they can take it away if they choose.
In fact, what I consider "morally bankrupt" is that the recording industry isn't holding up their part of the bargain: the deal under which they got copyright is that they get it in return for benefitting the public and eventually contributing to the public domain. They have renegged on their side of the deal. What's worse, they are imposing hundreds of billions of dollars on costs on tax payers for enforcement; at least, let them pay for their own enforcement--bill them for every policeman, wiretap, search, court costs, and incarceration related to copyright infringement.
As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing immoral about ripping off the recording industry or movie producers in any way that people choose. It is, however, illegal, which is why I personally don't do it. But you can bet that if there is a legal way of harming content producers, I will pursue it. The best way of doing that, I found, is to not buy their stuff; fortunately, there is lots of legal free music on the Internet.
"When piracy is widespread and enforcement is difficult, penalties must be disproportionately high to have a deterrant effect."
The $250,000 FBI fine on the front of all DVDs doesn't appear to have slowed down US copyright infringement activity.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
not bad for a start. I don't see the problem with this law at all, don't infringe on copyrights and it won't be applied to you. Infringe on copyrights, and you may spend 2 years in jail. Good stuff.
You can't handle the truth.
It's worse to copy mission impossible 3 than to beat your wife, mug someone, or steal a car.
Ya, that makes sense.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
there has to be a machine in the network the *AA can connect to and get the infringing content. The person running that server gets sued.
What if someone writes a worm that secretly installs an anonymous P2P client on each infected computer? Would you sue everyone?
Good luck!
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Yeah, I know about Goodwin's law, but I still think it is pretty telling that it is Germany of all countries that is among the first to choose very disproportionate penalties for this kind of behavior.
What Germany is saying is "if you don't conform to proper, legal behavior, then we can do with you whatever we want" and "trust the state, we can determine perfectly whether you have violated a law". There is no sense or debate in the government that this may have a chilling effect on free speech or be used for selective enforcement. There is no debate over the ethics of copyright and copyright violations. And, make no mistake about it, while in the US, laws like this may be on the books as a deterrent and rarely enforced or even effectively invalidated by the courts, the German legal system will enforce them regularly.
I'm glad the German military has been defanged to the point where that nation can't impose its blind sense of order and trust in authority on other nations. Unfortunately, the legal precedent that this sets will probably still harm people in other nations.
List 7o7,
Just because someone downloads it doesnt mean they would have bought it, they could be just 17yo and just
playing around, they arent going to build a 747 with autocad at home.
But if 100,000 kids download it and play with, guess what product becomes second nature and popular in the real
industry? the one thats pirated. And businesses DO PAY FOR IT.
If it wasn't for early windows piracy, the mac would have been numero UNO!!!
And btw, of that $3995, I do not think 100% of the retail cost goes back to autocad employees, in real fact, 40%-60% goes
back to the retailer, 10% to the govt. Of the cost thats left, 1-2% do the book/manual printer. Then another 15% or so back to the govt as coporate taxes from the companies profits. Then 5% to the CEO salary, and whats left, half to R&D and half to sales/marketing.
So your poor little programmer potentially lost what... $100, but since they are SALARY employees, not a % of sales profiters, they loose nothing, as long as there is a minimum sales/month quota reached by sales/marketing including upgrades.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Once more Germans start paying for software (to avoid jail), FOSS uptake will be a lot better.
Yeah great,
lets add it up.
* police cost
* lawyer cost
* court cost
* personal cost - lost income and lost taxes due to not working.
= $150,000 for 2 years jail - thats the REAL cost to the govt for locking you up.
If they just gave a $50 "Copyright Ticket" like a speeding fine, they get their $50 quickly, and you still
continue to work and pay taxes and no lawyers/courts are wasted (they get paid enough for a lazyass job if you could call it a job)
A tatoo on the head saing "(C) looser" would do the job cheaper.
Btw downloading is NOT PIRACY, piracy is the act of taking ships in open waters, but (C) piracy is only the act
of SELLING for PROFIT without a resellers right. They are the true pirates, those $20 CDs in hongkong etc.. they are
the real pirates, thats the truth 7.
OT - local shops outside usa selling console games 30% above USA prices, thats 'theft', since they are all mostly
printed/packaged in singapore and transport costs are low, taxes minimal. Or xbox360 games, $39 USD in asia, $59 on amazon. WHY???
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
From TFA: Anybody who downloads films for commercial use could be jailed for up to five years.
For commercial use, so if you download AND sell, then you could get up to 2 years. So it seems that this is not the bad law that will imprison everybody who downloads the latest Britney album.
Anybody with a link to the original law?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Two years of jail for copyright infringement? That's pure overkill. I can't even begin to understand the valid reasons for this.
Even from the other side of the equation it makes no sense at all. I've spent the last couple of years or so working on some games. This is my baby, the result of me working my ass off. The thought of someone depriving me of potential income by downloading a cracked copy does make my blood boil. An appropriate consequence of them getting busted with it? Compensation for the loss, yes. Some sort of fine or community service, yes. But jail time? For duplication of an entertainment product!? You can't be freaking serious.
This is greed, pure and simple. Perhaps a demonstration of a massively overinflated sense of self importance (defy our will eh?.. off to jail with you, consumer!). It is also a demonstration of the very, very dangerous consequences of letting a powerful lobbying organisation get their way with the laws. I hope this doesn't remain on the books for long.
PS. Copyright infringement has never been, and will never be, theft. The former deprives someone of potential future income, and the latter deprives someone of something material immediately. Equating copyright infringement with the forced boarding, theft and murder of a ship at sea is an arrogant and flawed analogy.
Rant off.
What is it with this copyright issue anyway?
At first it was illegal, then it was OK.. as long as it was 'Limited' distribution, then a 'hold-all' server like Napster was bad
Kazaa was OK.. then bad!
Now they can't touch Bittorrent.. then they sue poor kids in the Bronx or where ever she was from...
Now it bad again in Germany!
But Bali has been pirating for years
I wish they (Sony, other record companies, the man, what ever you want ta call them),
the courts, and who ever else needs to be involved would just lay down some sort of decision! OK they might lose out on a coupla areas maybe,, maybe the pirates will get away with somethings.. but this whole debate has got to stop
It is wasting time and money...
Why don't they just accept that they can't win them all and leave it at that!
Trolling along, singing a song...side by side
That would be the old-style Christians I guess, putting people on the rack and burning them at the stake?
For sure, this law isn't Christian by any modern standard. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, turn the other cheek (no, not THAT cheek), forgive 7*70 times...
1. the CIA sells drugs and protects drug lords to fund black ops
2. GW BUSHES dad was CIA head before
Everyone knows the biggest criminals are the govt themselves.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Ahem. All good bands (i.e. Green Day and, uh...uh...uh) ARE taking a year off. There are almost no good bands. There _are_ some wealthy bands with geriatic performers, yes, but music has become like Disney movies -- locked in "vaults" and copyrighted for the next 5,000 years. First thing we do, we shoot all the copyrighters.
I come here for the love
Christians of the world, unite(d).
One more thing Germans can be proud of. They are a nation of proud collection...
Unless there is also a levy that compensates shopkeepers for stolen goods, the levy on CD writers and media should now be immediately revoked.
I guess they fight unemployment among jail guards this way ;-))
and in other news crime in Germany is low because it's against the Law!
Either mods preferred considering that the GP was joking, or they decided to mock GP.
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
on boing boing about the relative severity of shoplifting and downloading ...
Meanwhile German jails will be going bankrupt due to large number of jail sentences for teens and college kids involved in copyright theft (which most likely is not paid for by the music or movie industry).
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
So by your logic, I can go into the grocery store and steal the unsold fruit and vegetables, because if the grocery store didn't sell them, the fruit and vegetables would rot and become useless, and it would be a great inconvenience to the employees to have to remove the rotting stuff. So in fact, I would be doing a favor to the grocery store by removing their unsold items, and clearing space away for fresher inventory that people actually want to buy (if people wanted to buy it, it wouldn't have been sitting around unsold available for me to steal). In fact, the grocery store should be paying me to remove the fruit, and what a great guy I am, I'm willing to do it for free, on my own time using up my own energy, and I wasn't going to buy those items anyways. And if I steal fruit and vegetables, who is hurt? Nobody is "directly and immediately" hurt by the missing fruit. Is somebody really checking EACH bannana, or every little tangerine? And we all know that grocery stores are huge Greedy Corporations (TM) anyways that jack up their prices and abuse their employees with low wages, so it's my moral responsibility to punish them for being such Greedy Bastards (TM).
Steal fruit! Steal vegetables! F*** the Corporations! F*** the Police State! Viva la revolución!
...I don't listen to the radio much any more, nor do I watch TV all that often. I DO listen to things like RenRadio, which is populated by performers that don't give a flying flip about what drivel the bulk of your ilk produce. You know what, I've been listening to real music for about 2-3 years now and I'm not very likely to be turning back any time soon- mostly because the media companies have been strip-mining culture for a couple decades now and it's almost all rubbish these days.
Go ahead, take a year off. Other people will gladly step up that don't have contracts that seem to love what they do and are actually GOOD and produce something worth listening to/watching for a change.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
That's why in the last few civilized countries, things like software patents are still illegal.
AFAIK, making copies for private use is perfectly legal in Germany. So how come it is suddenly illegal? What happened that an accepted and encouraged activity became morally reprehensible overnight? Will Germans still have to pay fees on the media that takes their illegal downloads? And if they do, does that mean that the German government encourages crime? And if so, is there something the law-abiding tax payers of Germany can do to round up these criminal politicians and send them to jail?
I think I will take that aspirin now.
Enforcement will be left to the state prosecutor. Authorities hunting internet pirates will be able to pass on details to film and music producers who can then inform the police.
Who are these authorities? I'm asssuming reps from the companies but bounty hunter does come to mind.
qz
Go for it, it wouldn't bother me in the least.
But, don't claim garage bands, Pub bands etc. Most of them hate you too.
And hey, I'd bet that if you could measure it, masturbation would be the hottest trend with or without your insipid crap.
Hmm, that actually sounds like a good idea. By writing to the right places it might be possible to reach enough people. You might even go public and use the mass media to disseminate the information (and if you use a website to coordinate everything you can get the media interested by telling them to "look, we already have 50.000 supporters"), which simultaneously makes sure that the message is understood. This would also create media space for people to talk about mass-incriminating and/or corporate sponsored laws in general.
If this really happened it could generate an awful ot of bad PR for both the media lobbies and the governments implementing sponsored laws.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Don't do it!
Germany is still run by the nazis after all, I feel sorry for the German people, this is the 3rd time in 100 years they've had to put up with an evil dictatorship! Shame the yanks wont be helping liberate them this time either seeing as their administration is on the same team as the evil leadership this time round.
:p
On the plus side, at least the French aren't surrendering so easy on this round either with their anti-DRM law
Actually, theft can get you up to five years. But yes, anyone who steals some chewing gum (a regular amount, that is - not an entire truckload) won't get a prison sentence, much less one of two years (and if you did, you could fight the verdict as being not appropriate for the offense). In fact, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even get a trial - it's just not worth it.
Knowing the German beurocracy they will stick to their guns until the high court judges in Karslruhe set them straight on this subject. That's how most things work in Germany these days, the most mundane things get fought through the courts all the way up to the high courts. A couple of years ago German banks were instructed by high court ruling not to charge people for montly bank-account overviews because they were a part of the basic service you get when setting up an account. The ruling they could expect was bloody obvious but the banks took it all the way to Karlsruhe anyway and ended up refunding alot of money. It doesn't seem to matter that the court constantly reprimands lawyers for wasting the court's time. Another fun example was an employer who thought he could bring foreign workers to German but pay them according to the customary pay rates in their country of origin which of course were much lower. That case didn't go to the high court but it's a another good example of how idiotic some of these court cases clogging up the German courts are. This case got shot down in a the high court at state level and the guy was made to pay his workers at German rates. At least it is now clear that you as an employer want lower wages you will have to endure the draconian inconvenience of outsourcing across borders. So you see the US court system is not the only one overloaded with moronic law suits.
Entertainment droids are obviously too busy doing drugs to ever read a book, either, it would seem?
Not Free SF Reader
I'd say that if the PTA shows downloaded movies after their meetings, it's socially acceptable.
Ask your public librarian. She's that shady little wench down on the street corner handing out free copies of copyrighted works. Books, movies, music... she's ur hook up!
Did I hear a pirate?
3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
AUS ZU DIE CAMPES!!!
I'm sorry but downloading is not akin to stealing. The people downloading don't necessarily know if the content is free because it has been paid for by the advertising on the site. Whats really happening is someone is stealing chewing gum from a shop, and holding it out offering it to passers by - and anyone who reaches out and takes the chewing gum is now breaking the law. Its totally ass about face - I wonder if the judges there really understand how it relates to the real world
Haven't you read Les Miserables? You can be sentenced to 19 years on Devil's Island for stealing a loaf of bread!
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
At least the german government is going after the actual people who are pirating the music and DVD's in the first place. Not like the United states where they go after the people who make the software to make it possible to read a DVD. I think its a good law. It targets the right people. However good like in enforcing it.
People need to realize that piracy is not good for anyone. Companies who have to deal with piracy are less likely to hire more people if individuals keep doing this. I mean why make the product if you can't get compensated for it. Pay for the CD or Movie. Personally I'd rather a few bucks for a CD rather then support the habits of a software pirate. Then people wonder why it gets so tough to find a job.
So each german is buying 1 maybe 2 cds a year. And you are trying to tell me that a country that is so uninterested in music is going to download the equivelent of 5 CDs a year. I mean at the height of the sales they were only buying 3 or 4 CDs a year.
It's more like 2 - 3 music CDs. After all, one of the CDs was a CD by David Hasselehoff.
My other SIG is a Sauer.
They should make it so that when the pirates are eventually released from the work camps after 2 years, they need to wear a yellow pirate patch their chests forever. The extra stigma will help to disuade other citizens from commiting similar crimes. This is the only sensible final solution to piracy.
Why don't you just gas the bastards. Mwa hahaha
> Günther Krings, the Christian Democrat legal
> affairs spokesman, who claimed: 'There should be no
> legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from
> a shop and performing an illegal download.'
It's amazing how many Christians believe in democracy, wherein it's wrong to make it illegal to take things without someone's permission on an individual scale, but who then turn around and make it legal to take things without permission on a mass scale, i.e. taxation.
Funny, I can't remember where Jesus said it was OK to steal stuff as long as at least 51% of the people are engaged in the theft. Christians, I'm talking to you .
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
my thoery is that the stricter laws are the more lucrative ...
crime becomes.
one example: where can you make the most money by selling drugs?
pretty simple in singapore. if you can make more "concentrated"
money, crime gets more organized.
just a theory tho.
laws dont change people, i think. it's more like "we have
a economy problem but we dont want to solve; instead we're just
going to warn you what we're going to do to you IF we catch you."
policing this is going to cost the newly united country alot
of money.
IF it where democratic (lol) my guess is everybody would vote for
"download away" policy
I'm sure a more ardent fan can go into more detail on this than I can, but my understanding of how replicators are supposed to work in the Star Trek universe is a similar principle to that of the transporters. With a transporter, a person or object is decomposed to energy; their atomic structure is stored in a "pattern buffer" which is then used to recreate them at the other end. Likewise, a replicator turns a bunch of random matter (the stuff they have in those icky bags under the replicators, I suppose?) into energy, but then based on existing (computer-stored) pattern data recreates that matter in the form of a steak, or some tea.
The point here is that you can only replicate so long as you have some matter to sacrifice in order to do it. Matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed, even in the Star Trek universe. Replicating something using someone else's matter is theft. Also, the template for how to construct a steak has to come from somewhere, and in our current world that template would almost certainly be covered by copyright law (which doesn't exist for humans in the Star Trek universe.)
> The thing is, though, that if you didn't buy it, odds are that most of the people in your social circle won't either
Based on what I see around my own social circle, this is bullshit. There are plenty of people who will occasionally turn others on to shows or films that they have downloaded, then those people will occasionally buy. They also occasionally get a copy for free, but there is no God-given right to guaranteed sales for corporations. On the other hand, at least they get *some* sales out of it. Seems to me they should be thankful. I don't need to point to the several studies (for instance the case of Battlestar Galactica) on shows that have become hugely popular thanks to BitTorrent-fueled buzz. I also don't need to point out that the Canadian recording lobby is explicitly saying they don't believe illegal downloading hurts sales.
Even if these things weren't true (and they are -- look it up), seeing people argue that years of jail for copyright infringment are justified is truly sad. Long ago, we stopped inflicting that kind of punishment on people who default on their debts, even though that could much more understandably be called theft (the lender actually doesn't have that sum of money anymore, as opposed to the original owner of the copyrighted material, who still has his/her copy). Do you want those laws back, too? Why don't we start punishing people who gather together to watch movies? One person paid for the rental, but five are watching. Aren't four people getting to see the movie for free?
Such comparisons may seem like absurd rhetoric to you, but back in the Eighties the entertainment cartel you're apologizing for argued along similar lines. Nevermind that people who rent a movie and watch it together may recommend that movie to others who will rent it. In the world you're describing, this doesn't happen, ever -- they would make sure to rip the DVD just because they can, and go out of their way to distribute it to all their friends. I say you're full of shit.
But even if you were right, jailing people for such offenses is clearly cruel and unusual punishment, and as an American I refuse to condone it. There are real criminals to go after, and it isn't the State's business to enforce compliance with corporate business models in the face of such models' failure. To believe otherwise is a symptom of the worst effects of excessive, unbridled capitalism. I am no capitalism-hater, but arguments like yours make me understand its critics's point of view.
Am I to assume stealing a packet of chewing gum carries a sentence of 2 years jail time? That's fucking ridiculous. This is the worst law to date. If it costs too much or is too heavily regulated, it will create a nice black market, no matter what.
These politicians should stop fighting the average man, and instead create laws based on the average man.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Well, if it was redefined at least legally it would be *considered* theft in court. While by common definition, it still wouldnt be theft.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Well, from personal experience, I know that a 2 year sentence in Germany is a very big deal. My brother-in-law was beaten with a piece of wood, robbed, then set on fire and burned in a little cabin in the woods by two men.
Sentence: 10 years out in 7, and 7 years out in 5 for the perpetrators.
In comparison, 2 years shows the German Gov. is taking copyright infingement very seriously!
Confuzzled, I'm with you, and I can't see how GP got modded up so high. I hope this gets examined in meta-moderation, because GP is just spewing nonsense.
$META_SIG_JOKE
the law only refers to downloading in the following language:
"make them available for download on the internet"
Every argment above is on a mistaken premise. Such a law would be impossible due to problems establishing intent.
Slashdot should make an article about how often the press either because they are stupid or conflicting interest has written "download" for "upload."
A simple google of shashdot reveals many many articles where it is done even here where editors people should know better.
News site serach show it is done in thousands of articles in the press.
Slashdot deserves better. can someone edit the title of this story? ASK any one else German to citr you the actual proposed text -- "make available for download."!!!
please look here for a synopsis in English , but any other German reader can confirm tha the Times Online story and other stories generated by it (and the German Movie industry press release which has lied) mischaracterizes the text and written download for what is really "upload."
http://www.germnews.de/dn/2006/03/22
oops, I eat my words. I forgot about the three strikes law.
$META_SIG_JOKE