Slashdot Mirror

Nonsense.

MS was loosing the trademark case in the U.S. regarding the term 'Windows'
http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20040211 055425570

The Judge clear said no amount of marketing would change the fact that Windows was a generic term:

The Court flatly rejected Microsoft's arguments today that the jury should consider the meaning of the term "windows" in its current day usage, ruling rather that the jury should focus on the timeframe prior to the release of Microsoft's Windows products, which is 1983-1985. The Court also ruled that once a word is declared generic it would continue to be generic, informing Microsoft that no amount of marketing around a generic word changes the generic state of the word. To view Honorable Judge Coughenour's ruling, visit http://www.lindows.com/genericness

Here's a little more:
Judge Coughenour ruled that the jury will be instructed "to consider whether the Windows mark was generic during the period before Microsoft Windows 1.0 entered the marketplace in November 1985." At the same time, the Court ruled that it will not instruct the jury to consider the current meaning if the jury finds "windows" was a generic term prior to November 1985.

Frankly, if anyone really wanted to go to the wall, I suspect MS would loose the trademark on the terms 'Windows', 'Word', 'Money', 'Project', and possibly even 'Internet Explorer'.

Lindows gave up because they couldn't defend themselves in all of the jursidictions that Microsoft filed. MS was filing cases all over the world.

But here, at home, in the U.S., the courts were ruling against MS, and rightly so. The idea you could trademark a foreign word, 'Windows', in, say, Japan, makes some sense. The idea that you could trademark the word, 'Word', or 'Windows', in the U.S. is absurd, and the only reason that it holds any weight at all is because Microsoft has a ridiculously huge pile of money.

If I tried to trademark the term 'WhiteWolf's Doors', as a piece of software, people would laugh me out of the room.

"Microsoft started the legal spat. It filed a complaint against Lindows .com last December claiming trademark infringement, trademark dilution and unfair competition. That was five months after Lindows.com was founded and before it had a product on the market."

http://info.lindows.com/inthenews/nytimes12302002. html

"An upstart company, Lindows.com, is trying to persuade the Federal District Court in Seattle to invalidate Microsoft's trademark on Windows."

Duane Maxwell, the Lsongs author, is a dickhead (read the whole thread to see why).

Perhaps in some countries, perhaps not in others. Ginux might even infringe in some. Ginspire anyone?

Managed to find this on the Lindows site: the full Python source code as released under the GPL, no less:

LSongs
LPhoto

Managed to find this on the Lindows site: the full Python source code as released under the GPL, no less:

LSongs
LPhoto

Here are the tarball links for those who want 'em :-)

LSongs
LPhoto

Here are the tarball links for those who want 'em :-)

LSongs
LPhoto

I guess it will take them a while to implement the actual name change.

Indeed it will, as said on their website (or more specifically, here:

Thereafter, you'll see a "morphing" to Linspire on our web site and throughout our product line over the next several weeks.

..at the bottom of this page:

Copyright © 2004 Lindows.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way - in fact, we don't even really like them because they are suing us.
Terms and Conditions Privacy Policy

..at the bottom of this page:

Copyright © 2004 Lindows.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way - in fact, we don't even really like them because they are suing us.
Terms and Conditions Privacy Policy

..at the bottom of this page:

Copyright © 2004 Lindows.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way - in fact, we don't even really like them because they are suing us.
Terms and Conditions Privacy Policy

Right, but it was called the Sneak Preview and was taken care of when the product shipped
I guess they can't take back insider and preview copies, eh?

When was the last time you even looked at Lindows?? It sounds like NEVER and you are judging it from the Preview that came out 2 years ago.
Lindow does NOT run as root unless you want to, just like every other Linux distribution.
Take a read through their FAQ of searches for root and more specificly the one about 'pushing security' on the users.

Did you know Windows runs as root 5 years ago! Even Windows has locked down somewhat on user security. It's just that with Windows, if you run as an administrator, you are the administrator account.

When was the last time you even looked at Lindows?? It sounds like NEVER and you are judging it from the Preview that came out 2 years ago.
Lindow does NOT run as root unless you want to, just like every other Linux distribution.
Take a read through their FAQ of searches for root and more specificly the one about 'pushing security' on the users.

Did you know Windows runs as root 5 years ago! Even Windows has locked down somewhat on user security. It's just that with Windows, if you run as an administrator, you are the administrator account.

The only thing Lindows has similar Windows is the 'indows'. Look at the screenshots, it uses the KDE keramik look, which is standard on most Linux distributions, and not the Windows look. If you want a Windows feel try the "Redmond" theme.

Robertson was simply seeking to decieve people into thinking they're buying a Microsoft product, when they arent.
His whole website was a clone of MS's for that very purpose.

If you read the most recent Michael's Minute You'll see the following:

Selecting a new name is more complex then you might think. A few weeks ago we asked for suggestions, and we were flooded with some creative ideas. My favorite was one user writing in to say our name should be "lindos" and our new slogan should be "because it's the W that is causing all the problems." :-) Finding a unique name for which domain names and trademarks are available takes real searching. We're now reviewing candidates and we will identify our new international name on April 14th. --Michael Robertson

I take this to mean that Mr. Robertson found Lindos amusing, but does not intend to use it as the Product's new name.

Article: Robertson's message said it will take time to shift to a new name, because Lindows has thousands of Web pages and 100-plus computer servers.

I'm sorry, but both of those numbers sound bogus, or the logic doesn't apply... If they are using database-backed dynamic pages, changing to a new name and domain should be rather easy.

On a related topic, at http://support.lindows.com/, the Knowledge Base they are using looks a like like ones I've seen in other sites, such as ximian's and Sierra's sites. I have no idea what the name of the software is though, and with my company wanting to deploy a knowledge base for their own software, I'd like to know which it is to save some research time.

You get Lindows.

What you describe is Trademark law, which is probably the sanest branch of north american IP at this point. You cannot trademark common words or phrases (modulo certain exceptions) so an effort is generally made to prevent brand names from becoming same by prosecuting uses of the trademark that don't refer specifically to the actual product.

Copyrights belong to the author (or sponsor) automatically and can only be given up voluntarily or lost when the rights period expires, which is now some significant time after the author dies.

Patents are granted on a first come, first served basis to whoever applies for one and provides a monopoly on the implementation of a particular method for a fixed term.

Neither copyright nor patent rights are contingent on enforcement the way trademarks are. Holders of these two rights can and do choose which infringements to pursue.

This is the problem with MPEG-4. We can avoid the copyright issue by writing an open source version from scratch, since the standard is at least published. We don't have to call it MPEG-4 so there are no trademark issues, although while the MPEG logo is trademarked in the US, one can refer to the specification because that itself is not a trademark and because there is no attempt at confusion.

But there is no way around patents because they grant a monopoly on implementation rights. Just because you wrote your own doesn't mean you don't have to buy a license, or that you won't be forced to buy one sometime in the next 20 years. If you live in a jurisdiction that doesn't enforce patents, you're fine for now. If you just want to trade movies underground, you're probably fine because there's safety in numbers. But if you're like me, and want digital media to be as easy and ubiquitous as webpages; something anyone can do, something you don't need permission for, you need a something that's Free as in Freedom and Free as in Beer. Something like Theora.

there's at least one - the lindows mobile PC (which is really an eNote OEM rebadged). Dunno i there are any others. This is based on the VIA eden chips, though I don't recall whether it is the ezra-t core or the newer antuar/nehemiah core. http://info.lindows.com/mobilepc/mobilepc.htm http://www.sub300.com/port.htm

Lindows CD (a live CD version a la Knoppix) is also officially distributed under BitTorrent, and even other "non-reputable" p2p nets like Kazza.

What a great idea! I think I'll start up a business called "Microsoft 2" and start selling Linux distros through it...

actually somebody already did it

For no-brain hassle of running Linux on a notebook computer, why not try a distro that's designed specifically for mobile computers?

Such as Lindows for Laptops.

It has built-in power management features and can even be bought pre-installed on a number of machines.

Disclaimer: I don't work for Lindows, I run Windows and I don't even have a notebook computer. But this is the one commercial mobile Linux solution that I've heard of.

It seems to me that http://www.lindows.com/ is implicit criticism of the Microsoft Market Monopoly Exploitation.

Maybe the attitude of companies to P2P will change when they see the commercial advantages like Lindows have

What version of Mandrake didi he use? What are the exact models of the hardware it didn't detect? USB mice have been supported for ages for example. If you havnet tried Mandrake 9.2 or 10.0 then try again. Windows 95 would probably wouldnt work either, but does that mean that Windows 95 IS TOO HARD?

You may like to also try another distribution. Such as Knoppix. Knoppix has top class hardware support and doesnt need installing.

Windows XP dosent support my hardware, it BSODs when I plug my AGFA easypix camera into my computer, Mandrake pops up a disk on my desktop, and so does all the other Linux distros. My 52 year old mother can't figure out Windows XP, but she loves linux, and she uses it to play her games and online banking!

You may also like to report the non-detected hardware to Mandrake QA.

Here are some more links to back up my claim!

So try and get your Neighbour to try Linux again, tell him that its improving all the time!

Why are people STILL SPREADING THE MYTH that linux is hard to use on the desktop? ITS NOT! Please tell me what distro are you using? Distros such as Mandrake, Lindows and Xandros give you exactly what you want, they are all very focused for the consumer. So why are you spreading 5 year old myths about linux?

Linux is getting so easy to use its getting mainstream websites reporting about it

Might I suggest Michael Robertson?

This concept is interesting, but I think it works better on Kiosks and some corporate enviroments, to replace thin clients.

I'm from Holland as well, and I can't access lindows.com anymore; there's a notice that `users in these countries need to click here', a link to www.lindows.com/killchoice which is a redirect to lin---s.com.

I agree. I eagerly await the collapse of this stupid ass company that does nothing to further either operating systems in general or Linux.

• Sponsoring several open source projects:
  • kde-look.org
  • kde-apps.org
  • Mozilla
  • Nvu
  • gaim
  • And the list goes on ...
• Hiring Everaldo

from their news release on the topic ...

Copyright (C) 2004 Lindows.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way - in fact, we don't even really like them because they are suing us.

it's still called lindows in countries where they are allowed

Michael Robertson is as much interested in the fight with MS as the future of his company, which he is using as a vehicle. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing - Lindows is privately held, after all, so he can do what he likes, and I respect his convictions. What Robertson really would like to see, I think even *more* than the success of Lindows, would be for a US court to strip Windows of trademark protection.

Well, what more can you expect from a company that copies Apples old aqua tab-design on its website.

Lindows did considered it. Here is the URL: http://info.lindows.com/lcd/.
Now is free on the P2P networks (they put it there!).
But they have also a live version for enterprises.

Perhaps you really should read this article. It's actually an entry from Lindows.com's FAQ. Apparently, and I can vouch for this having setup multipe LindowsOS computers for friends and family, you can setup users during setup and don't have to run "EVERY DAMN THING as root."

Turns out that this little bit of FUD took "root" (pun intended).

Lindows is trying to solve the very problem you are looking at. Sure, people bitch about them (mainly due to the elitism of many Linux users), but I heard it's a nice solid distro, and things like click-and-run make it very easy to install software.

unless you're accusing them of coercing or bribing their way to it

How else do you explain the fact that they were told by the highest court that on no account could they ever trademark the word because it is generic, then, years later, when they had an effective monopoly, they managed to negotiate with the government to get the word trademarked despite the court ruling.

Also note that the parts of Lindows's court filings that explain how Microsoft managed to get the trademark seemingly illegally have been censored with black ink by the judge (and Lindows are banned from discussing them).

You can sort of see through the ink in places. Take a look at these:

• Lindows's original court filing (in PDF)
  • Section II:B (pp. 8-9 of PDF file) (entitled "Statement of Facts: The USPTO Initially Rejected Microsoft's WINDOWS Trademark Application and Reversed Itself Only After Microsoft _____________________________________" )
  • Section II:C (p. 10) (entitled "Ubiqitous Use of the Term...Demonstrates Continuing Generic Use")
  • Section IV:A:1:a (p. 13) (entitled "There is No Evidence of Actual Confusion...")
  • Footnote on p. 17
  • Bits of pp. 19, 22, 23, 20 & 31
• Lindows's motion for summary judgement (in PDF)
  • Section III:C:1-2 (pp. 14-16 of PDF) (entitled "Statement of Facts: Microsoft's Registration of the WINDOWS Mark: Microsoft's 7 Year Delay Until 1990 to File/Borland's Protest USPTO's Rejection of Microsoft's Application")

Don't you find that suspicious?

unless you're accusing them of coercing or bribing their way to it

How else do you explain the fact that they were told by the highest court that on no account could they ever trademark the word because it is generic, then, years later, when they had an effective monopoly, they managed to negotiate with the government to get the word trademarked despite the court ruling.

Also note that the parts of Lindows's court filings that explain how Microsoft managed to get the trademark seemingly illegally have been censored with black ink by the judge (and Lindows are banned from discussing them).

You can sort of see through the ink in places. Take a look at these:

• Lindows's original court filing (in PDF)
  • Section II:B (pp. 8-9 of PDF file) (entitled "Statement of Facts: The USPTO Initially Rejected Microsoft's WINDOWS Trademark Application and Reversed Itself Only After Microsoft _____________________________________" )
  • Section II:C (p. 10) (entitled "Ubiqitous Use of the Term...Demonstrates Continuing Generic Use")
  • Section IV:A:1:a (p. 13) (entitled "There is No Evidence of Actual Confusion...")
  • Footnote on p. 17
  • Bits of pp. 19, 22, 23, 20 & 31
• Lindows's motion for summary judgement (in PDF)
  • Section III:C:1-2 (pp. 14-16 of PDF) (entitled "Statement of Facts: Microsoft's Registration of the WINDOWS Mark: Microsoft's 7 Year Delay Until 1990 to File/Borland's Protest USPTO's Rejection of Microsoft's Application")

Don't you find that suspicious?

Basically, his world view seems to be that he has enough money already, and will do things that he feels are right, irrespective of the consequences. This I highly respect him for, but I don't know that I'd like to have him running a company that I had invested in.

The ruling can be accessed through Lindows's page, right here

Read the yahoo article and the one posted at Seattlepi.com and the (mal)practices of our media shine through in the reporting of this ruling.

I just love the bit where the recording industry present their "90% of the 750 million files" study, and the judge whips back with, well, 75 million files is a lot, isn't it? A few more legitimate uses like this one would do a lot to push the point home.

Why are you STILL using Windows filled with spyware crap! Get linux today. With KDE 3.2 just released there is really NO excuse!

Install Linux on your computer today!

I'm not surprised. Their CEO, Michael Robertson, goes way back in supporting Open Source software. He was one of the first main contributors to ReiserFS way back when, because MP3.com used it.

Here are some of the projects supported by Lindows.com: http://lindows.com/opensource

Buy Lindows, install it on your PeeCee, quit yer whining.

Here are the instructions for the most common distros.

Generic
rm -rf /opt/gnome
Debian.
apt-get remove gnome
Mandrake
Menu > Configuration > Packaging > Remove software then search for gnome and tick all instances off
Red hat
Just uninstall red hat altogether, it is closely interwined with Gnome that is better getting a gnome hostile distribution.
Sun Java Desktop.
Get SuSE 8.2, its the same thing but without gnome installed

Gnome free distributions. These distributions dont contain gnome.

Arklinux
Xandros
Lindows
Lycoris
TurboLinux
Knoppix the K in it stands for KDE!