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But even if such a study showed that XP "just worked" more often than Ubuntu (which I personally suspect to be the case), the two would still be in the same ballpark. So the claim that Linux distros are "not ready" for the desktop is just not true. There may be differences in the "just works" batting average for non-techies, but you have a good chance of it "just working" with any modern Linux distro or XP.

The real clincher, however, is that you have an almost %100 chance of everything "just working" if you buy a preinstalled system. These are available for linux distros as well as the ubiquitos XP. Unlike with XP, linux distros actually have a choice of software vendors for preinstalls.

A team of geeks could design their own system, pick their own architecture, load it with Free-as-in-ESR software, and sell it competitively with Windows PC's.

How do I know this?

Cobalt Flux sells an extremely popular dance pad for DDR-type games

design their own system, pick their own architecture, load it with Free-as-in-ESR software, and sell it competitively with Windows PC's...

So why doesn't someone try this? Or does someone?

"Does that mean installing/uninstalling software under linux is now standardized, logical and quick, even for people who never used it before? Have you ever watched a new linux user try to install all their software onto a linux box without any help? Linux will not get any mainstream adoption until THAT need is addressed, and that's a promise"

Have you ever watched a new user installing Windows from scratch. If installing Windows is such a breeze then why are call centers such a growth industry. Since most of the standard apps come preistalled I doubt the new user would even have to install. For instance Linspire comes out of the box with Internet Suite, Email, Internet, instant messaging, Office Suite, Instant Messaging, Digital Music, Digital Photos, Wireless Capability, Plug and Play, Web Publishing. If that's not enough then there is an online update service. Just click and install. Off the top of my head SuSE, Mandrake, Debian all come with graphical installers. As do most of the rest I assume.

"but those are the reasons I put Mandrake 6.x, RH 7.0,7.1 and 7.2, suse x.x into a box and put the box under my bed and hardly bothered with them for the last 5 years"

Are you one of these Linux geeks who still live with their parents?

"I use the operating system to get things done, and I don't want to wrestle with it, I want it to do things intuitively"

You will be pleased to know that Redhat now comes with a graphical installer. As for getting things done, I put people down in front of a SuSE KDE/desktop and do know what, they can't tell the difference.

"unless getting RPM's to go to the right place and install the right way has gotten any simpler .. Calling rpm with half a dosen switches (after reading a manual for 3 hours)"

I don't understand how you have to tell the RPM where to install. What took three hours to type RPM -Uvh.

"Long story short, I just wanted to get a basic functional web server together"

I also don't understand how you equate installing a web server with what the new user would ever want to do.

--

"do it to them before they do it to us", Sergeant Stan Jablonski

was I wonder. (Score:2), Troll

The first Linux distro I started with was Slackware 9.0. It took me 3 weeks to get it up & running, with the help of a lot of people from LinuxQuestions.org; But as they say: "Once a slacker, always a slacker"

I tried other distros, but none give me the freedom to manipulate my system like Slackware.

In short: If you like (not mind, but like) reading manuals and changelogs before using a new utility and program, then you'll be able to pull it off with Slackware. Otherwise, go with Kubuntu (It's Ubuntu but with KDE as its Desktop Environment instead of GNOME).

The Fedora Core project has a life cycle of 6 months and is a test ground for RedHat; What ever is new, is thrown there for tests; Once stable, it's moved to the Enterprise & Advanced server editions (not free).
And it's really sluggish and you'll face some weird conflicts with some applications.

I recommend KUbuntu, as a free distro. If you want a commercial one where support is ready for you whenever you want, go with Suze, Mandrake or Linspire.

If you'd like to work with both Linux & Windows at the same time, without rebooting each time, consider using Windows as a virtual machine (VMware).

===========

For your all-in-one needs for programming & web-design, I strongly suggest Eclipse. You can use it for Java, PHP, C++, HTML, CSS, ...etc.

Good luck.

This answer shows why the question is nonsensical on its face. No one can tell you what distro is best for you. Everyone has a different personality. For me, Slackware is the ideal distro for a newbie. But then, I like to read up on any product before I use it. So I thought it was easy to install and now it is very easy to administrate. It has lower overhead from all of the bells and whistles that some of the other distros have included. There is no dependency hell that can be so frustrating to a newbie. If you stay away from the auto updaters and read the changelogs, you will never have a broken system. If you are like a lot of the Windows users that come over to Linux, however, you will probably be better served by one of the other distros. The majority of them want to run the installer CD and then just have everything be set up and work. Of course some of them become so frustrated the first time they run into a problem and have no idea on how to fix it, they run back to Windows. But good luck to you.

Which distro to adopt if you are a newbie really depends on what you want to achieve or learn by installing Linux. If you want an alternate desktop system you could go for Ubuntu, Linspire, Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop distro where you get lots of user friendly GUI tools to solve your configuration problems. If your ambition is to become a corporate Linux admin or a developer and you want to build a server system to cut your teeth on I would recommend something like Centos because it is a free-of-charge binary 'clone' of Red Hat ES/AS which along with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server is the standard for anybody who runs enterprise quality software including the ubiquitous Oracle Databases. Slackware on the other hand is only for you if you are a for true nerd, developer, comp-sci/engineering student or some such eccentric who want to find out the old fashioned way how a modern *NIX system is put together. Basically I'd say that if you are a complete Linux newbie, say... an experienced Windows XP user, you should definitely start with one of the ultra user friendly Linux desktop distributions and proceed from there. If you want to become a professional Linux admin you should also get over any fear you may have of command-line interfaces and doubly so if you have any ambition to do any serious development on a Linux system.

Burn that torrent and use the resulting disk as a Live CD by selecting the appropriate menu option.

In the minds of business folk, there is Red Hat, and there is Novell. Most have no idea who Linspire is, or Xandros, or Mandriva...at least in the US. Kevin Carmony of Linspire made some good points and observations: http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.p hp?id=36 I don't think Linux in general has anything to worry about, but I am not convinced that Novell does not. The bread and butter of any Linux vendor is the community, and I think Novell angered a lot of their people. They certainly angered a lot of people who may have given their distro thought before. I for one have no interest in using it anymore, although to be fair I didn't care for it for personal use anyway; I thought it made a good choice for someone coming from Windows who just wanted to get basic work done. Now I won't recommend it for that, but that's just personal preference.

Maybe biased, some some good points none-the-less:

http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php

I'm not a geek either though some say I am. I'm not as proficient as many here are.

Well, Ubuntu never seemed to be designed for geeks (I'm using it for about 8 months now) - it's one of the friendliest distros for beginners (as much as I've tested different distros)

I'd say the same thing about Linspire. I recently got a pc with it on and though I haven't really used it yet it looks easy to use. Using CNR, Click n Run, it's also easy to install software. I have one problem with it. When I got it I got a broadband router as well and while I have access to the net on both of my pcs and ran the Windows Home Networking wizzard, my old pc runs Windows ME, I haven't been able to network the two pcs. The old pc doesn't show the new one in My Network and while the new one shows the old one I can't access it. I keep getting a userid and password dialogue box even when I enter the right uid and pw, I've spent several hours on the net and trying to get networking to work. So in the next day or two if I can't get it working I'll have to pay someone to them networked properly.

But well, a book might be a good idea - making Ubuntu even more user friendly.

I agree bigtime!!! I'm ordering a book for Linspire and I'm thinking of multibooting with Ubuntu and/or another Linux Distro, if so I'll get a book for it.

I bought Lindows once, just before Lindows changed its name to Lin---s and then to Linspire. It was very glitzy, but it certainly wasn't a distro for people who didn't want to spend money. IIRC, without a paid subscription to their service, you couldn't even do things with it that you could do a normal Debian installation, such as updating non-proprietary software.

Looking at their CNR, Click N Run, warehouse they have hundreds of apps anyone can download and install. You can also install rpms and apts or whatever. I didn't so much buy Linspire as much as I bought the PC with Linspire installed. It had a price I could afford, and I didn't have to order it and wait for it to be delivered. For now, er when I get it setup, it'll basically be used until I can get a Macbook Pro. Once I get the MB Pro I'll setup the PC as a server. Whereas the MB Pro only has a 120 GB hd, I got a 300 GB hd for the PC. And the PC I'm using now has two hds, one has 120 GB and the other 40 GB and I only have a few GBs of free space.

If you find that's still the case, I suggest you try Ubuntu (or Debian itself, if you're more technically-oriented). Less BS and more getting-stuff-done, IMHO.

I've thought of that, and might try to install Ubuntu on the PC I'm using now. I might give Debian a shot but I'm not really knowledgeable about Linux. I took a Linux class, well not really Linux per se but a unix class we used Coherent in if I recall right, back in 1998 but things have changed a lot since then and I haven't really used it since.

Dell actually has it in their best interest NOT to put Linux on their desktop, and it also won't knock money off the price tag. In fact it would probably RAISE the prices. Let's look at this, shall we?

With only one OS installed, they only have to deal with one support contract. If they start installing Linux they'll need to contract out support for every flavor they install. But what flavor would they install? FreeBSD? Redhat? Debian? If they choose one it will alienate the others ("I don't want a Fedora computer, I want a Ubuntu computer!"). If they HAD to install a distro my money is on Linspire. Why? Because they're one of the few companies that have the marketing team aimed at selling pre-installed Linspire computers, not just software in a box. Ma and Pas Desktop User don't buy an OS, they buy a computer with an OS installed... Like a Dell.

Dell buys Windows for pennies on the dollar ($20 or less per copy). So by switching to a Linux distro the consumer would only save a few of those dollars. HOWEVER, that also means that AOL, REAL, Earthlink, Corel, some crappy DVD player, and other companies could not put their software on your brand new PC. They pay Dell a lot of money to have those things pre-installed and displayed on "your" desktop. Without those subsidies bringing down the cost, you end up spending more for buying a computer with a "free" operating system.

So while Linux is getting to the point where Grandma can surf the web and email recipes back and forth, it's still going to be a hard sell for a MAJOR manufacturer to pre-install it for the public on a consistent basis.

Finally I can get a legal solution for playing DVD's on Linux. I just hope that I can get it running with other distros than Linspire. http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.p hp?product_id=25183&pg=specs

I use it and love it. It came pre-loaded with a computer I purchased. Linspire doesn't distribute the same way as Ubuntu, Fedora, etc, to geeks via an .iso (well, they do that, but they don't target that). THIS is what they DO target: http://www.linspire.com/featured_partner/featured_ partner.php?sent=1&country=1

If you have missed it, /. has posted another Patch for you. ;)

I think you're right on all points, but I have to correct a possible misunderstanding. Freespire is not something a company would obtain in conjunction with a support agreement. It's the free-as-in-beer version of Linspire.

From their website, they seem to have a GPL compliant version and a free (as in beer) proprietary version, much like OpenSuse 10.0 was.

Here's a list of the licensed proprietary compenents. Under nearly every one it says explicitly that you are not granted redistobution rights.

Basically, I guess if you want to legally redistribute it you'd need get this one. Since it doesn't have the proprietary codecs, though, I think you'd be better off with Ubuntu.

Torrent of CD: http://tracker.linspire.com/torrents/freespire_1.0 .13.iso.torrent
Torrent of VMware image: http://tracker.linspire.com/torrents/freespire-1.0 .zip.torrent

They take donations.

Torrent of CD: http://tracker.linspire.com/torrents/freespire_1.0 .13.iso.torrent
Torrent of VMware image: http://tracker.linspire.com/torrents/freespire-1.0 .zip.torrent

They take donations.

No. They'll probably hand out copies of Linspire or Freespire. If they can make the computer even $50 cheaper by not using Windows, people will buy it. That's Wal-Mart's whole business model. Make everything as cheap as possible, while maintaining the bare minimum of expected functionality/durability.
And that applies to their employees, too. Medicare is cheaper than providing real health insurance.

I don't know, it sure looks like linspire contributes to OSS to me.

Quick! You'd better email them at their office and tell them that all the money they've made is only phantom money. They'll be glad that someone with a bit more insight was able to warn them in time!

However, quite a few people will probably keep the default OS out of laziness, if nothing else, so Windows will loose market share.

If they installed a working, full featured Linux distro this would be true. Past experience shows that whenever Linux gets preinstalled in the U.S. it's some stripped-down useless distro like Thizlinux, Linspire or FreeDos.

I'm not sure who the marketing geniuses are that pick ThizLinux over Fedora, Debian, Mandrake, Mepis, Ubuntu, etc.....but it seems fairly consistent.

Linspire open sources EVERY SINGLE SPECK of art, icons, wallpaper, etc. that we produce. We even sponsor sites that share that art (KDE-look, etc.). Shame you can't do the same. As for rebranding GPL code, 1) you obviously don't understand what Linspire does and does not do (the only "rebranding" we do is giving software friendly names that consumers will understand, for example we call "GAIM" the friendlier name, that consumers will understand of "Instant Messenger, Powered by GAIM."), and 2) even if we did (which we don't), that's sort of the idea of GPL, that code can be used by others. We WELCOME people using our code, art, icons, etc. I think it's a shame you don't do the same. Many people use our themes, icons, etc. and never give us credit. Do we cry about it? Hardly. We are flattered, pleased and applaud it. Here are the MILLIONS of dollars Linspire has contributed in code to open source: http://linspire.com/opensource And your contribution? Why not GPL YOUR work??? Kevin

That's bullshit-ese for "they dare to charge for their product".

The problem isn't that they charge for their product. The problem is that Linspire markets their product as a bait-and-switch scheme. You buy ubercheap PC, get it home, switch it on, and ...surprise... we'll give you some software as soon as you pay an extra $50.

Any distro, pay or not, would be preferrable to Linspire. Linspire is a scam. For crying out loud....they try to sell a freakin virus scanner to their clueless users. They put the stupid thing right on the desktop panel to annoy them into paying up, to make them think it's the equivalent of NortonAV or Symantec. WTF is up with that!?!?!

Don't take my word for it though. Download Linspire and take a look.

"It isn't about Linux but it is about making money, simple. However, unlike other companies this one only takes and doesn't give anything in return."

It's brain-dead morons like this guy spreading bald-faced lies that makes it hard for any commercial linux distribution to succeed...

At the rate the various free and easy to use competitors are popping up, I will say by 2007 an office suite would become as redundant as Outlook Express is for most people today.

Even if he had all the money in South Africa Shuttleworth couldn't get a DVD/CSS license or an MP3 patent license that he could apply to open-source software. He could get a license for a closed-source player and distribute that; it probably could not be redistributable because such licenses surely would not allow that. Linspire has a closed-source DVD player (http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details. php?product_id=11804) that Linspire users can buy for forty bucks. Of course if Linspire *could* make an open and legal DVD player they probably wouldn't.

If you don't live in a country where it is legal to use patented/whatever codecs without paying royalties, you can of course still do it at your own risk, which is exactly what you did by doing it in Gentoo, so I fail to see the problem.

FWIW, Debian does include mp3 decoder software (i.e., software that can decode mp3 files to listen to) by default. It takes ca. 5 seconds to know this by googling for debian AND mp3 AND patent AND policy, which brings up this thread as the first link.
This might be too much for a newbie, but you don't qualify because you installed Gentoo. OTOH, a newbie wouldn't even have to google for it, because it works out of the box.

If you mean mp3 encoders (software to produce mp3 files), you are right that they aren't included. It takes 0.29 secs (according to Google) to look for debian AND mp3 AND encoder, which will give you lots of info and debs to download.

I still don't see how you can add MP3 support to KDE when the support has to be compiled into the KDE apps that use it

The wonders of modern software engineering! Did you ever recompile Windows Media Player because you added codecs for ogg, DivX and the 1,000,000 other file formats it can't play out of the box? Thought so.
See, while support might have to be compiled in, to my knowledge all Debian packages do and will gracefully ignore it if the mp3 library is not present. This is true for all proprietary codecs that I am aware of.

If you google for Debian AND codecs or Debian AND "unofficial repository" or Debian AND decss, or whatever, you will see many hits to repositories that you can simply add to /etc/apt/sources list (you can also use, e.g., the newbie-friendly Synaptic). Usually the google hits will include the repository of Christian Marillat or, for Ubuntu, of the Penguin Liberation Front, who provide packages for users who do not live in legally challenged countries. Then just install what you need with Synaptic or apt-get.

If you live in such a country, you can still run a Debian-based distro, Linspire, which will give you mp3 and video codecs as well as a DVD player, all completely legal even in the US, for a small fee. (There is talk about providing Linspire's Click 'n' Run Warehouse for Ubuntu users too). (Don't believe the myth that Linspire runs everything as root, it is not true). Anyway, Xandros gives you nearly the same (sans CSS'ed DVD IIRC)

ah, as opposed to 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, etc ;)

Not true - per the license families can use the software on multipe machines provided all machines are for personal use.

hilarious [SWF]

Here you go.

There are plenty of other companies that sell Linux an (sic) no-OS machines.

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.ibexpc.com/
http://www.koobox.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/
http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)

Slashdot's lameness filter is actually pretty... well... lame. Defeating it is usually as easy as adding more text. You know, like this sentence. :-)

There are plenty of other companies that sell Linux an no-OS machines. http://www.addonshop.com/ http://www.emperorlinux.com/ http://www.ibexpc.com/ http://www.koobox.com/ http://www.linare.com/ http://www.linspire.com/ http://www.linuxcertified.com/ http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/ http://www.microtelpc.com/ http://www.outpost.com/ http://shoprcubed.com/ http://www.sub300.com/ http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm http://www.walmart.com/ http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)

As most malware attacks are for profit these days, the Windows environment, with its huge level of insecurity provides a bigger payback for the investment of time and effort involved.

If Apple and Linux boxes were more popular - or become more popular - for desktop application systems which are connected to the Internet, they would get targeted more. But, there is a saving point here. If these systems can be properly configured and locked down so malware can't get started they will remain relatively immune. Once it gets around that Apple or Linux systems have good "as installed" security against malware, its authors will look elsewhere as criminals are just as lazy - if not more so - as everyone else, and are not going to work hard for small returns. Problem is, the settings for this will have to be done by the release maintainers as most people will probably use them 'out of the box' in whatever way the system is set up to be configured. If the Linux and Apple OS release maintainers do not design their systems to install in a secure method in the first place, (Linspire being the prime example, having the user default to root), these systems can and will become just as buggy and virus-ridden as Windows boxen have become.

Paul Robinson
paul@paul-robinson.org / paul@paulrobinson.org

http://www.addonshop.com/ http://www.emperorlinux.com/ http://www.ibexpc.com/ http://www.koobox.com/ http://www.linare.com/ http://www.linspire.com/ http://www.linuxcertified.com/ http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/ http://www.microtelpc.com/ http://www.outpost.com/ http://shoprcubed.com/ http://www.sub300.com/ http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm http://www.walmart.com/ http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information) No OS (Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes) http://www.avadirect.com/ http://www.asimobile.com/ http://www.powernotebooks.com/

True Windows users mainly run as admin mainly because most programs require them to have that many rights.

Two of the biggest targets in Windows is Internet Explorer & Outlook which all Windows computers have at least Internet Explorer & Outlook Express. You can never truly remove either of these programs without causing major problems on the computer.

The reason Linux is even harder to target is you have several different e-mail apps to choose from & everybody isn't using the same app with the same secuirity flaw. This makes it harder to target Linux users although not impossible as I mentioned earlier. One package that seems to be in many flavors of Linux is the Apache web server which was targeted by several viruses.

So my point was Microsft would have to release 100+ different flavors of Windows that prefered a different set of software & had a different user interface. That would make it a harder target like Linux is right now, since flavors that prefer KDE for the GUI use mainly KDE apps & flavors that prefer Gnome use Gnome apps mainly. The other advantage I can think of for Linux is that because you can see the source when you post about a bug or flaw, assuming you know enough about programing, you can also include a patch for the problem. This happened with the 0-day exploit in Wine, when the flaw was posted a patch was posted at about the same time.

That is why I think making Windows safe by making it more like Linux would be bad in some ways. I think making admin right needed was a really bad idea for the programers who did it. I know that Intuit has learned from that mistake, in the 2003 version of TurboTax you needed Admin rights to install & run the program, while in the 2004 version & the 2005 version you only needed admin rights to install the app with regular user rights being enough to run it.

Windows Vista is supposed to fix the issue with users always running around as an admin evven though they almost never need it.

For an example of Linux running around as root check out Linspire Linux. Yes I know running as root is a bad idea which is why I'm considering either Kubuntu or Ubuntu when I make the switch to Linux, they both only give you sudo access & if you decided to install root support the forum users will assume you know enough to fix it yourself & will not help you other then tell you to re-install Linux, this is because running as root on that flavor of Linux causes problems if you are not an expert & know what you are doing with it.

My current problem is going to be reformating my data drives from NTFS to FAT32 without loosing any data, the reason for FAT32 is because they are external & I'd like to be able to use them on other Windows computers, currently I can because the other computers I connect them to are also running Windows XP which supports NTFS. That means I need to either move the data around & format one drive at a time or use a tool to convert the partitions. I will no longer use Partition Magic as it is now owned by the evil Symantec company.

Convenient how you left Linspire out of your argument. Is a $498 Linux laptop at Walmart not low enough for you?

As far as the price of Windows dropping because Linux is on the desktop - it's possible, but don't expect it to happen immediately. Microsoft (like pretty much all companies, Red Hat and SUSE) gets the majority of the sale of their software, and sets the MSRP of their software. They probably have hundreds of people working out the best pricing plan to maximize profit (like pretty much every company). If they notice that they're selling less copies they'll adjust their offerings accordingly. Take a look at the SKUs planned for Vista. It hints that they're planning some major changes to their pricing plans. In fact, it's a sign of price discrimination, which many businesses do (like Red Hat).

In this post the author said, "Microsoft will usually come back with a cut-price offer, something the company never used to do".

In some form that is true. Originally Microsoft gave away the OS with the computer just so they could get their foot in the door. They got people so locked into it that they knew if they had a unique interface then people couldn't leave.

When people start to get a handle on a small application, Microsoft builds that functionality into the operating system. When someone tries to generate the same "look and feel" or just has a name somewhat like their's. They sue until they get their way.

Microsoft Always Will Be A Monopoly. They use the tactics of a monopoly and the only way to fix it is to not use or purchase their software and hardware. There are plenty of other solutions and if you have the capacity to be using another. You should be.

It is not about "smart vs dumb", it is about convenience and wanting/not wanting to deal with a task someone doesn't find interesting.

Almost, but not quite. It is about not wanting to/not being ABLE to deal with a task... The difference lies in that KDE *CAN* and often is slicked back and all the extras removed for a "one choice" interface. If KDE's main desktop is too complex, then spend the 15 minutes and clean it up to your liking. If Gnome's is too simple, in many cases you are SOL because something was REMOVED and not just HIDDEN.

With KDE, you can. With Gnome, you don't want to. Honest. This is not the feature you are looking for. /me waves hand immitating Jedi mind trick

  -Charles

The MPAA is not preventing you from playing DVDs under linux. AFAIK, anyone can license the DVD codecs and release a commercial player. In fact Linspire has done just that:

http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.p hp?product_id=11804

Of course it wouldnt make much sense to give away a licensed DVD player for free if you have to still pay the royalties for each copy, so yeah, they have to charge for it. There are other companies that are also working on linux based DVD players, though I dont follow it, so I dont know what state they are at. Maybe someone can post some links.

However, I would wager that even the most wonderful commercial DVD player for linux would sell like crap and people would still gripe about playing DVDs under linux. The thing that prevents people from legally playing commercial DVDs under linux is their aversion to paying for software, not some MPAA/DMCA conspiracy.

Which is quite silly really. Have you bought a stand-alone DVD player? Then you have paid the royalties for that capability. Even the windows-based DVD app that came with your video card probably wasnt bundled for free either...

" It's not about whether or not there should be a rational way to play your DVD on your Linux laptop"

Except you can play your DVDs legally on linux. Im really not sure what this aricle is about..

There are linux DVD players just that none are free. There are no free legal DVD players ON ANY OS. You know how everyone says MS Office,photoshop,reamweaver etc will never have a linux version because linux users do not pay for software, well that is quite true.

Legal linux DVD player

Stop the BS about people trying to stop DVD playback on Linux. It just makes you look stupid.

Example: there is still no legal solution for playing DVDs on Linux.
Not quite true: http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.p hp?product_id=11804

It may be a bit expensive, and it might only work with Linspire, but it's completely legal.

The RIAA/MPAA doesn't give two shits about Open Source or Free Software users. They want the content played on their terms (which is pay per use for infinity). The Open Source/Free Software users are actually a thorn in the side of some companies due to "free" implementations. That MPEG-2 decoder xine (and others) use is using is violating patents. The first "free" version of MPEG-4 was a hacked up Microsoft codec. Current open source MPEG-4 implentations violate patents. LAME violates patents surrounded by MP3s, Etc, etc.

When will Linux users get CableCard? If the "powers that be" have their way, never.

Please understand that OpenCable is run by CableLabs, a very corrupt, yet inept organization, which is controlled by the major cable conglomerates (mainly Comcast) and the big players in the video/data space (Motorola and Scientific Atlanta). The cable operators are allowing CableCard only in the hopes that they can use it as a way of leveraging the existing cable headend distributors (Scientific Atlanta and Motorola) into lowering their prices and (potentially) becoming interoperable. (Currently in the cable market, once you pick a headend supplier, you're locked in with them, because they have incompatibile proprietary encryption schemes). Believe me, they really don't care about the end customer, as long as the customer doesn't switch to IPTV over DSL (which is a big threat now).

If enough people switch to Linux on desktops and set top boxes, market forces will drive alternate solutions.

My friends tell me that I'm very pessimistic - I prefer to call myself a realist. Nonetheless, Linux is starting to drive set top boxes because it's cheap. And the DRM is done via a SmartCard that plugs into a reader that is controlled by Linux. But, the reader is controlled by a binary-only module (although the set top box designers have the source code), so the end user will never know. And encryption is handled in the hardware, the bits actually travel across the buses encrypted, so it would take a lot of expensive equipment to reverse engineer it.

Linux on desktops, well, there's MythTV. But, if the developers can't figure out CableCard without violating the DMCA, then it won't happen. Some developers might figure something out, but it will never be part of the main codebase. Heck, they won't even allow talk about Torrentocracy on the myth-users mailing list because of the fear that MythTV will be seen as a bad program for allowing you to download TV shows.

All in all, it's a sad state of affairs, but unfortunately, that's the way it's going. At least in Europe, they have some idea on open standards, with things like DVB.

Myself though, I agree with you. I'm sticking with SDTV because I don't feel like paying a lot of money for a TV that will either try to lock me out of the content I'm paying for, or will be made obsolete with new DRM restrictions. I'm staying away from Digital Cable for the same reasons. But, unfortunately, most people just don't care.

-- Joe

It was copywrited and then patented by MS. As a result, the innovative "+5 Conspiracy" technology has a license which is not only non-redistributable but is also incompatible with GPL based Software such as Slashdot's Slashcode.

What does your boss think about desktop linux, UI inconsistencies, geeky interfaces?

I think the answer to that question is in just about every other post. Because you are worse off after buying these products.

Tell me where I can buy a copy of a movie that will play on my linux system from my hardrive. Furthermore, if I'm paying for such a copy I want the codec that it's in and the file format to be documented and don't want to relly on one company to support it.

You can't buy such a thing. Hell you can't even buy such a thing that will go on a windows system.

Sure you can, Linspire sells a licensed DVD player for Linux. And, as far as Windows, there's PowerDVD among other software players that come bundled with the purchase of a system w/DVD drive or an OEM drive. I've never purchased either where a Windows player didn't come with the DVD drive. I must be missing your point on that...

Don't give me any such crap about stealing, I don't do p2p. I can see where people are getting quite frustrated. All I do is buy easily scratchable shiny plastic discs that I can't backup in overly bulky containers. It's no wonder people are sharing this stuff, I may go that route myself in the future.

I can see where they are getting frustrated too, but possibly for different reasons (DRM, EULA, stupid excessive copyright restrictions, etc.). Why aren't you allowed to backup DVDs? That is within your rights under fair use as I understand it (INL). Does the DMCA trump fair use in this regard? If so, why? I don't think I'm dishing out "crap" by asking these questions, or by pointing out the obvious conclusions of the "us vs. them" mentality in the P2P arena. Look, if you aren't using P2P for illegal purposes now, it is an easy bet that you wouldn't walk into a store and abscond out the door with a stack of discs, right? Then why would you want to "go that route" yourself someday via P2P? Ethically, what is the difference? Is it really a load of crap? No, it's just harder to catch and prosecute...at the moment.

Show me where folks like Orrin Hatch and the big media companies are advancing the arguments for further controlling OUR usage of OUR property without invoking copyright infringing P2P transactions. I don't think you'll find many instances where that isn't in the equation. My point is valid. They will continue to use this against all of us and the technologies that we freely employ today (for whatever purpose), who doubts that? It is the catch all excuse for taking more of our rights from us. Those who argue against this concept today (because they aren't getting caught...yet) are simply adding fuel to the power-grabbing fire. Like it or not.

Frogs in the cooks pot, he slowly turns up the heat and we don't even notice until we're collectively cooked...

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.ibexpc.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/
http://www.xandros.com/

http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)

No OS

(Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes)
http://www.avadirect.com/
http://www.asimobile.com/
http://www.powernotebooks.com/

1. Microsoft's current operating system dominance. Like it or not people don't want to change. They don't like change, they don't like anything new.
2. Microsoft's dominance in the web browser, email and office suite arena. Everyone uses these products, web developers have to test their pages in a sucky microsoft browser and most business people use outlook for all of their email, scheduling, etc...

look a bit like a

young Bill Gates?

They are reverse engineering iTunes. I'd be willing to bet on it.

Pshaw! Why should they bother going after iTunes when can just create their own innovative and original products like Lsongs and MP3tunes?