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First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks).

$ konqueror --version
Qt: 3.1.1
KDE: 3.1.3
Konqueror: 3.1.3

$ xdpyinfo |grep "XFree86 version"
XFree86 version: 4.2.1.1

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

WTF's a .ko? modconf does all that nasty module stuff

$ uname -r
2.4.20

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

You must have a *really* old monitor if it can't cope with an out of range signal. I admit its been A few years, but xf86config or xf86setup or something was fine when I set up my X.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

screen #0:
dimensions: 1024x768 pixels (260x195 millimeters)
resolution: 100x100 dots per inch
depths (7): 16, 1, 4, 8, 15, 24, 32

Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Yes, pay for the manuals and phone support if you want. For online stuff, I used to go to linuxnewbie.org

Debian has ZERO support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle.

Well, my usb mouse (cordless, mouse # 2 so I can control xine from across the room, but not my main mouse) works fine, as does my USB mp3 player and sound card. My modem was fine too when I used one, but I don't have a scanner. Printer worked too, but I sold it when I emmigrated.


Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!)

It's a superior format

Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share

That's just it, Debian isn't a commercial distro, it'll go As long as people develop it. If it's not for you, fine. TBH If I had time I'd probably migrate my desktop away from Debian. My laptop's too slow to run a modern distro though. Use whatever floats your boat.

Running Linux by O'Reilly was essential for me. (still is at times!) - it's a great reference book once you've gone thru it all.
LinuxNewbie.org has some nice how-to/help files that were also big for me.

Linuxnewbie.org--No other place on the web makes a new Linux user feel more comfortable. Being comfortable means coming back; back to Linux. Don't know why this site gets overlooked so much.

http://www.linuxnewbie.org

Don't think anyone posted that yet.

I've been wondering about all the slowness complaints that have plagued large applications like OpenOffice. Does anyone here do the hdparm tweaks to improve disk performance? I just stumbled across it (after 7 years) trying to improve mplayer's performance. This may take care of much of the slowness complaints we always seem to hear.

MOD DOWN PARENT!

McPherson, Craig, doesnt look like a spammer - I remember a couple of years ago at LNO. He's a decent troll.

trollmastah@hotmail.com - Really, one of the countrys top spammers with a hopmail address?

*@adequacy.org - that well known site isn't spam central.

For PPPoE links this should be set to 1492.

Sometimes. Sometimes less. I actually ran into this problem with my old DsL connection; I couldn't reach the "My Yahoo" series of sites, of all places. I don't know about a full-blown academic paper on the subject, but here are a couple of references you might find useful if you're on PPPoE and you find sites mysteriously unreachable:

windows : http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php/1104 /

Linux: http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/Modems/Tweaking_You r_Modem_with_MTU_and_MRU.html

Basically, what you do is ratchet down the MTU until you can see the sites you weren't able to before. It might only need to be reduced to 1492; maybe lower, though.

These were both near the top of the google list for their respective searches; dozens more are obviously available through the same proceedure.

Meanwhile, a quick Google search leads to:

One
Two
Three

Check your hardware.

1) He was right about this being an Alpha release - I'm a 1yr linux newb, and your best bet is to not attempt to install an alpha release. Go here first to see instructions on building/compiling the KDE source for the various versions.

2) Go here for a list of all the 'newbie' help files, and try out this guide if you don't know what the previous person meant by 'unpacking the tar.gz' files.

Now it makes sense why internet.com pulled their finger out and consolidated their very neglected holdings. They weren't just being nice at all. linuxnewbie has been screaming out for a face lift for over a year now. Competition did the trick.

I have been doing the same sort of thing for the past several months at my place of employment.

Some of my classes have had experience with linux/unix, and some have not, but I have found that the best way is to start simple.

1) Start with some basic commands, available at linuxnewbie.org
- Include certain operators such as the pipe, and how to use it, as well as file-viewing/searching cmds, such as head, tail, cat, less, more, grep.
2) Go over simple filesystem design, such as where config files are kept, binaries can be found, etc...
3) Introduce them to the usefulness of man pages
4) Introduce them to some of the major applications (apache, sendmail, postgresql (or mysql)
5) Lastly, be sure to compare to DOS/Windows as often as possible, so that your tutelages have something to cross reference in their minds.

Good post. I'm a Linux newbie and I second every point in your post this elitist moron replied to. One further point: they should make a Special Edition HOWTO meant specifically for Windows users trying to migrate to Linux. AFAIK, such a thing doesn't exist yet.

Try this site

This is where I learned to compile the kernel for the first time. I compiled it only a few days after getting Red Hat 7.1. Its a good site and for people who want step by step instructions on compiling the kernel this is the howto they need.

Mandrake 8.0 was the very first distro that I got to install cleanly right off the bat and allowed me to connect to my DSL immediately. I tried other distros, like Red Hat 6.2 and Mandrake 7.0, but I had serious problems.

8.0 was the PERFECT distro for a newbie like myself. It spared me the pain of having to configure my DSL and allowed me to immediately post questions and get responses from Linux help sites, like LinuxNewbie to get the answers I needed to my important questions. Although they are exlusive to Mandrake, I was quite impressed with the GUI tools, which, although I should really use the command-line equivalents, were of great help to me just starting out.

8.1 seemed even better than 8.0, but I later found out that it wouldn't automount my CD-ROM or floppy, and I couldn't use my CD-Writer at all. I tried all kinds of tricks, but nothing seemed to resolve the problem. Reluctantly, I switched back to 8.0, which I'm still using.

Now I'm debating whether to try out 8.2, or go for a more "pure" Linux distro, like Slackware. I feel as though I've hit a dead end as far as learning Linux goes. I have an old PC on hand, which will really help me to experiment.

I think even if I decide to switch to Slackware, I want to try Mandrake 8.2, for purely sentimental reasons :)

I entirely agree. I am fairly new to the Linux scene and I've found the biggest barrier to learning anything is the documentation. Especially man pages. Is there something wrong with the idea of giving a few examples of usage?

When confused about a manpage I usually end up searching the web. Places like Linuxnewbie.org are a good start, the how-tos are often very helpful. But this kind of information should be included with the system, IMHO.

I'd have to agree with this. Their article on compiling the linux kernel is what helped me compile it for the first time. There are some other newbie sites like linuxnewbies.org (newbies is plural) but linuxnewbie.org is still the best.

Anyone who came here to find out about XP, this is just to let you know that there is a choice. You may have heard of Linux. It is free. And it never crashes with a BSOD. And it has many top games available. Oh yeah and did I mention it is free ?

Windows users interested in trying out Linux for themselves should go to LinuxNewbie where they will find resources, and help on installing this revolutionary free OS.

Come on guys, don't follow the blind upgrade trail. Just because Bill says upgrade doesn't mean you have to do it :-)

This really irks me. The users of GNU/Linux wrote those fabulous (and freely available) manuals (HOWTOs, FAQs, infos, mans, etc.) to answer your questions. They *are* being helpful. And you complain because you want them to read the answers to you? I don't think it is rude to tell a lazy person to do their own homework.

And what about when the person doesn't understand the manuals? Sometimes it's nice to hear something explained in a slightly different manner.

I find it far more likely, though, that the original poster was referring to people that say "RTFM" and don't even say *where* TFM is. I've seen it happen quite a bit; somebody posts to a message board asking how to set up their 3dfx card, how to install KDE2, or how to get Samba running, and they get replies telling them to RTFM. When they ask where it is... Nobody says anything else. It's more than a little frustrating. I'll admit freely -- for about four months after I installed Linux, I had no clue what a "man" page was. I'd ask how to do something, invariably get a reply telling me to read the man page, and I'd have no clue what the person was talking about. Fortunately, one day I discovered the forums at www.linuxnewbie.org, where people (tend to) give straight answers...

Linux is hard to admin, but I have friends that walked in and use my compter with no problems, they can barely use windows. (OK, I have Enlightenment and virtual desktops so they were shocked when their windo scrolled off the screen)

Its hard for a computer admin (I.E. for home computers), but not for the end user. KDE, QVWM and the like offer a comfortable (ugly) windows-alike appearence so anyone can do their daily chores. They dont have to install software,set up dial up networking or anything in the office, they justhave to write the letter. Once linux is set u there is no problems. Different permissions for different users (i.e. users, root etc) mean thatit is less likely to need re-installing every few months.

As for the "elite linux user" crowd, they dont want to be bothered by peope asking "where is my start button" for the 5th time that day. Sites like www.linuxjunior.org are the places to go to for that sort of help.

I've been using linux exclusivly for 6 months, and using it as my main OS for 18 months, yet I have only just ventured into some of the more technical mailing lists. It was 6 months before I understood HOWTO's, but NHF's, PETS and helpful people on newbie discussion boards (LJR, LNO), got me on the right track.

Linux is hard to admin, but I have friends that walked in and use my compter with no problems, they can barely use windows. (OK, I have Enlightenment and virtual desktops so they were shocked when their windo scrolled off the screen)

Its hard for a computer admin (I.E. for home computers), but not for the end user. KDE, QVWM and the like offer a comfortable (ugly) windows-alike appearence so anyone can do their daily chores. They dont have to install software,set up dial up networking or anything in the office, they justhave to write the letter. Once linux is set u there is no problems. Different permissions for different users (i.e. users, root etc) mean thatit is less likely to need re-installing every few months.

As for the "elite linux user" crowd, they dont want to be bothered by peope asking "where is my start button" for the 5th time that day. Sites like www.linuxjunior.org are the places to go to for that sort of help.

I've been using linux exclusivly for 6 months, and using it as my main OS for 18 months, yet I have only just ventured into some of the more technical mailing lists. It was 6 months before I understood HOWTO's, but NHF's, PETS and helpful people on newbie discussion boards (LJR, LNO), got me on the right track.

(Sorry about AC -- haven't gotten around yet to aquiring a username.)

You're right -- the "children" the media worries about are the script-kiddies who can download a piece of software and direct it to their school's website. (We got hit -- people start worrying about "hackers" -- and asking me if I "did it". Groan.) The average 15 yo. in my community can use Napster, Hotmail, ICQ/AIM/MSN, a couple web sites (if they can use Frontpage, they might have their own), a word processor, and X number of games. A couple have taken Visual Basic classes in school (the closest most get to "real" hacking.) To the best of my knowledge, I'm the only high schooler who's recompiled his Linux kernel. (Yes, I had some help -- linuxnewbie.org.)

When I started to get into linux 2 years ago, linuxnewbie.org was an invaluable resource, and the plain english NHF's, and friendly people, were a welcome break from the (then) cryptic HOWTO's and man pages.

Now I generally hang out at linuxjunior.org - which is similar in function.

Newbies dont know now to post "my rpm wont install" to kernel-hackers, and many people get fed up the 5th time in the day they tell someone to type ls -a to see their ".foo" file. Thats where these sites (and sites like linuxorbit and linuxquestions) come in.

Copuple with the horrible GUI windows-esque installs of distros like mandrake, and WM's like KDE, its never been easier to make the move. People can sit at a linux box, never even having heard of it before, and manage to get to their favourite website (if the system is set up).

While any pro-newbie move is good, this would have been news 2 or 3 years ago, not now.

Im in full agreeance. Unfortunately, Ask Slashdot has turned into more theory throwing and distro wars more than the helpful how-to type stuff it once was. its evolution for better or worse. you're question is good, but the answer is not so easy. Which is probably why you submitted an Ask Slashdot anyways. The truth is, you'd have beeter results asking a question like this @ linuxnewbie.org or something similar.

BTW: I dont have an easy answer for you either, Im an apt-get snob, but only cause its easier for simpleminded folk like me. and linuxnewbie has answered many question of mine and made many clarifications, even though Im no newbie. its helpful.

• 1. LinuxNewbie -- They've got tutorials on just about everything.
  1. The Linux Security Portal
  1. The raQ3 download site -- security patches here
  1. CommuniTech's satisfaction ratings with EOpinions - looks like you're not the only dissatisfied customer
  1. A bunch of Linux security stuff here
  
  
  Hope this helps...

Err, I have a triple boot and Linux-Mandrake did not kill my MBR. I personally find it unacceptable that Win98 killed my Win2k install. Yeah, yeah, I should have made a Recovery floppy, but I never got around to it then Win98 up and died.

I don't use KDE regularly, but I can cut and paste in GNOME and Netscape 4.75. Just the other day I had copied something from either Mozilla or Communicator 4.75 (I don't really remember which one and it really doesn't matter). It pasted into both a gnome-terminal window and gedit.

Don't get me started on printing. I work in tech support, and everyday we get some Joe Sixpak with usually an HP printer and they tried to install it on a ME machine. Guess what? It doesn't work. They used win98 drivers and the machine is now fubared. At least Linux-Mandrake usually works with setting up printers.

The only real point the original author made was on documentation. But stop and think. The How-to's, Newbiezed Help Files, and the like, all expect a certain minimal level of understanding. Even in MS Windows, if you don't undrstand the concept of Drag n' Drop, everything else will seem hopelessly arcane. If you are just starting out, either buy a boxed Distro, or plunk down the cash for Linux for Dummies. I got that when I started with RH 5.2, and it was a really great investment.

My Mom is a teacher. To learn to use her original computer, a Mac, she took some classes. Eventually she probably learned more about the Mac than I did. When the School switched to Windows, she went out and bought The Complete Idiot's Guide to Windows 98. She knew that she didn't know how to use her computer, so she set about learning.

LinuxNewbie is probably just what you're after. It's articles are aimed at the beginner at Linux.

If you're an idiot like me and know your way around Linux, but still can't get the hang of that 'new fangeld' kernel recompile thing, Linux Newbie is running a wonderful little Newbiezed Help File on How to install the 2.4.0 kernel under Rad Hat 7. Great for people who aren't yet up to the skill of 'kernel hacker'.

I cursed and cursed. I learned emacs. I unlearned all those windows keystrokes. (not really, its kool to switch my fingers to windows mode on a win box). I killed gnome and kde and installed a gui that used only a few megs (in code and execution) and was as foreign looking to Windoze as possible, Windowmaker

But as I learned to make major changes to my system without a gui or goddamn, *f-ing rebooting every 5 minutes I began to feel that godlike power agian that hooked me on computers back when I was 9. I began to love Linux. I feel natural with it and can really get around.

Funny, but just after that transition phase I took an engineering management role in a dot com and help in the setup of a several hundred K in unix hardware (smp sun boxes, linux, raid arrays, yada). I can tell you being able to live at the command line (and I mead live - getting help, light browsing, writing code (java and c++), working with multiple apps, email) was incredibly useful - I'd say mecessary

Though I've said alot, I don't know what to say. Sometimes I actually don't want every joe 6 pack to be running linux. The prideful part of me says, "learn the goddamn system and stop complaining. And if you can't, puleeze go back to windows. Grandma shouldn't be anywhere near a linux box anyway." The human part of me (oh, pride IS human, Doh) says, "*sniff*, try these:"

linuxhelp.net
linuxhelp.org
linuxselfhelp.com
linuxnewbie.org
How To's

There's also Linuxnewbie.org. I like this one because the NHFs (Newbieized Help Files) are clear, consice and really easy to understand. My networking instructor wanted to show his students that yes, there ARE other OSes that can do file-sharing besides NT, and we set up Samba to do just that using the Samba NHF on their web site.

I don't see any kind of disclaimer on their site, but you might want to ask Sensei, the owner of the site, about it.

Hope this helps!

- Firecaster
12 days until I graduate

There's also Linuxnewbie.org. I like this one because the NHFs (Newbieized Help Files) are clear, consice and really easy to understand. My networking instructor wanted to show his students that yes, there ARE other OSes that can do file-sharing besides NT, and we set up Samba to do just that using the Samba NHF on their web site.

I don't see any kind of disclaimer on their site, but you might want to ask Sensei, the owner of the site, about it.

Hope this helps!

- Firecaster
12 days until I graduate

Depending on what you're aiming at, my favourite site in the whole wide world - www.linuxnewbie.org, has a good selection of NHF's, desiged for the newbie (hence newbiedised help files). If you're looking at HOWTOS, you may as well check these out.

Exactly what do you want to encourage?

Most of my Micro$oft users have no understanding of files and folders let alone permissions. Frequently I have to 'find' a file they've misplaced by savin' to C:\.

If your users are mostly application based, then everything should be self-evident. A word processor is a word processor. Sure they're a bit different but basically they are the same.

If you're trying to teach the guts of Linux, why not use the newbie help files?

Or maybe even...

Linuxnewbie.org?

Ok, stop griping and take a deep breath. There are still those of out there who want to help you. Despite the fact that I'm no longer really new to Linux, I still enjoy helping out new people. And there's a site with a bunch of people like that. A good resource (I've found) for new Linux users is http://www.linuxnewbie.org. They've got some newbie-friendly documentation, and there's lots of helpful people on the BBS. Try it sometime, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

As for install instructions... Yeah, that is one area that's majorly lacking. A good, automated package management system like that used by Debian can help a lot. Most of the package discriptions are really good, and even dselect isn't a horrible interface once you read the help.

Try this:

http://www.linuxnewbie.org/nhf/intel/hardware/link sys_LNE100TX.html

--

Actually Linuxnewbie.org had news of this up on their front page well before this.

Documentation for this stuff is all over the net - try the Linux Documentation Project for a start. A good site for Linux newbies is LinuxNewbie.org

I think it would be far easier to implement this using a linux (or unix) solution than with WindowsNT/2000. All the basic funstionality for an internet server (e-mail, web, basic network stuff, firewall) is standard in most distros.

the URL's should be linux newbie and RH bugzilla

http://www.linuxnewbie.org

and

http://www.bugzilla.redhat.com

are probably what you're looking for.

--

The CORRECT links are:

www.linuxnewbie.org

www.bugzilla.redhat.com

Buggy url's in a story about a buggy release. Go figure. :-)

Corrected URL's:
Bugzilla
and
Linux Newbie.

A more specific link for Bugzilla.


Whee.

Someone forgot to insert the leading http:// protocol identifiers for the links in the story, and MSIE 5.5 (here) is generating goofy URLs by inserting http://slashdot.org/ in front of them there links!

Proper URLs:

• bugzilla
• www.linuxnewbie.org

Sigh. The point in a way is that most things from M$ work about the same - not so in Linux. I've found TAR to be user hostile at times. Now that I understand TAR, it isn't anymore - you lack the perspective of struggling to learn something that is initially difficult. You're "There" You have "Arrived" and you "Grok" it. As a result, you don't understand why others have a hard time with it. It's no different than when I was studying medicine in the service - AFTER I had been to school, I always wondered why people had a hard time "getting it" so to speak. I've had good friends and close realitives give me that "deer in the headlights" stare when I talk computers with them - It's all about the level you're at, and how much the person or people you're trying to learn from are willing to share information in a way that you will understand. Case in point: DOS 5 had an EXCELLENT help system. Unix has MAN. I am JUST NOW starting to get useful information from MAN pages - they were TOTALLY incomprehensible to me at first. This is why sites like Linuxnewbie make NHF's (Newbieized Help Files) for people like me - MAN pages don't cut it if you don't already speak the language.


Fawking Trolls!

Then there's the five free books in PDF format (Red Hat Linux 6 Unleashed, Sam's Teach Yourself Linux in 24hr, 2e, STY KDE in 24hr, STY Gimp in 24hr, Special Ed. Using Linux 4e), which, while not as good as dead trees, are still a nice touch for reference purposes.

But the biggest part I'd say is the bundling of a limited version of PartitionMagic to create a spot on a Windows box for Linux to inhabit. Sure, there's free partitioning utilities out there, but I haven't heard any accounts of whether they work or not whereas I've used PM before and it has never failed me. BootMagic is included as well.

Yeah, I've had the updater puke on me, and my user account's .kderc file had root as its group and owner at first. I don't know if these have been ironed out in 7.1 and 7.2b, but there's not too much to not like. I did have to shut off a bunch of unneccessary services, though, and the NHFs at http://www.linuxnewbie.org/ were a good resource for finding how to do that.

All in all, it's a really good deal for the money. A much better deal, IMO, than any Windows upgrade.

I'll have to take your word that that is who you say it is...

how do women make it through a show like this without being mobed by 10,000 single-male-geeks?

If I was an attractive geek chick (I could be!) I wouldn't be anywhere near a place like this!

how do women make it through a show like this without being mobed by 10,000 single-male-geeks?

If I was an attractive geek chick (I could be!) I wouldn't be anywhere near a place like this!

It looks like Patrick Volkerding of Slackware is wearing a BSDi company card. I guess Slackware didn't have their own booth...

As for resources for learning how to use Linux, just about everyone here would probably recommend (as I do) O'Reilly's book Running Linux, 3rd edition. That should help you get started.

Is anyone else annoyed by the big Internet.com "network"? It seems that they are going around and buying every single worthwhile and half-worthwhile website out there? After the site is acquired, it becomes slower than it was before, because they fill it with ads and links to their other sites.

During the last year, this has happened to many of the sites I frequent. I'm getting really bugged, and a even a little scared. This post on Slashdot just gives me another reason to be so.

• TheCounter was an excellent counter service. They had a website with two banner ads on each page, and a nice clean layout. The counters they provided loaded quickly and reliably. After having been acquired, the website was redone to something that makes my eyes hurt, and the counters started either taking ages to load, or failing to load at all. Their solution? Create a new account so that it exists on our new server.
• No major changes yet at LinuxApps, except for all the links and ads for the other Internet.com sites. However, the same problem as the one listed in this post arises. Would a post about Freshmeat on LinuxNewbie be pulled because Internet.com owns LinuxApps, which is similar to Freshmeat? This is, apparently, what happened in this case.
• BrowserWatch, LinuxNewbie, PHPBuilder, and a lot of other sites I frequent have all been bought by Internet.com. There haven't been major changes on them yet, besides all the annoying links and logos, but this post gives me more reason to be paranoid.

--