Kernel 2.5.3 Released

cybercyst writes: "You know the drill... Lets go hit those servers!" As usual, see kernel.org for the download or the changelog. Anyone using 2.5 for anything except testing?

Comments

Using it?

[SilentChris]

"Anyone using 2.5 for anything except testing?"

Are you kidding me? I'm using it to browse the internet right n-

Re:Using it?

[Woko]

I'm still nervous about using 2.4 - Its really irritating to find production environments going down because the VM subsystem decided to kill mysqld

Re:Using it?

[HeUnique]

You can either get 2.4.17, add the 2.4.18pre3 and Alan Cox's 2.4.18pre3-ac2 patch..

Or simply get 2.4.17 + Rik's latest rmap patch..

I done some very heavy testing for 36 hours keeping the processor runnning at %99 and all memory occupied while compiling KDE CVS (full), XFree CVS (full), and the kernel itself over and over..

It passed all without a single fail.

Re:Using it?

[b-side.org]

VM != scheduler. You'd have to also be loading something that uses all your RAM to stress the VM, unless you're doing make -j on all of those.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

"...You can either get 2.4.17, add the 2.4.18pre3 and Alan Cox's 2.4.18pre3-ac2 patch..."

And this illustrates perfectly why linux is a joke.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it.

Re:Using it?

[inerte]

Are you kidding me? I'm using it to browse the internet right never!

Re:Using it?

[Guillaume Ross]

I think you forgot how to end that kind of jokes...
Here goes the correction:
Are you kidding me? I'm using it to browse the internet right n-!"/%") NO CARRIER

Re:Using it?

[inerte]

Please install module think-2.45 beta-release, compiling from source with libraries gcc 2.55, xterminal 0.14 without anti-alias fonts, then apt-get latest irony-5.76, not 5.67 (because conflicts with terms-1.0009.56b while long_numbers-11.5674.678-179zb processes). Should you /.make while no mission-critical PID runs, and convergence-5.888huhuljlkvjsafdmnf.tgz is disable with --no-nothing, run in /usr/bin install from /usr/home, and as root.

That's why, sometimes installing Linux software is worse then launching the Holy Grail.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

And this illustrates perfectly why linux is a joke.

No, actually it illustrates perfectly why Linux is improving so quickly. Go back to your kiddie Microsoft world and shut your trap.

Re:Using it?

[MindStalker]

No, the point is that 2.4.19 should be fixed, but it isn't. Luckly pathes (these exist in the windows world too) exist, to give you this same functionality in the 2.4.18 kernel untill .19 is ready. For example you could have practically patch windows2000 to reach the stability of XP while waiting for XP to come out. Same thing, just not as simple to understand all the time.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

And this illustrates perfectly why linux is a joke.

Yeah, I find it much more preferable to run Windoze and wait until M$ sees fit to provide me with Service Pack x. With Linux, the community finds the problems, determines a (sometimes multiple) solution(s), and rapidly deploys them for implementation.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a very valid point you have there Einstein. Why don't you go soak your head in a bucket of gasoline and light up a smoke?

Re:Using it?

[MindStalker]

arg what I meant to say was that 2.4.19 should fix these problems. But its not out yet.

Re:Using it?

[Dwonis]

Just because Microsoft is worse doesn't make Linux not a joke.

Re:Using it?

[The Man]

That's like asking, "So, anybody here have 51 chromosomes?"

Re:Using it?

[dadaist]

Let's be honest, folks. Who actually uses Linux for websurfing? Especially kernel 2.5?

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

rofl, u assume someone is using ms just cos they dont like linux? thats kind of egocentric aint it?

Re:Using it?

[Pope Slackman]

rofl, u assume someone is using ms just cos they dont like linux? thats kind of egocentric aint it?

Of course not! Everyone knows there are only two operating systems in existance, linux (may Allah bless it's name), and Windows.

Do you need to be sent to a re-education camp?

C-X C-S

Re:Using it?

[meff]

Would you rather have it make the kernel panic from no memory to page to? :P

Give me a break.

Re:Using it?

[Sivar]

Production environments? That's what FreeBSD is for. >

Seriously though (and I was serious), most companies with experiences IT people aren't going to use anything that hasn't been thoroughly tested internally (like the latest releases of the kernel that have the new VM), but then most companies probably wouldn't use MySQL in a production environment either...though I would argue that it is more solid than most operating systems.

Re:Using it?

[xtremex]

I use 2.4.17 for everything. I just tried compiling the kernel tonight....went perfectly fine until I did make modules. I havent had time to figure out why it had all those "can't parse" erros.

Re:Using it?

[Sivar]

When you choose to play with bleeding edge software, you have to live with the caveats that come with that usage.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please be sure to use the Preview feature of slashdot. It will help with spell checking.

Re:Using it?

[fyonn]

hang on, I thought that 2.5 was bleeding edge and 2.4 *was* the latest stable release tree? should everyone be using 2.2 still?

dave

Re:Using it?

[bero-rh]

I do. Linux all the time, Kernel 2.5.x occasionally (My box dual-boots between the Red Hat Raw Hide kernel and 2.5.whatever).

I actually can't understand people using anything but Linux (or FreeBSD or other similar OSes) for websurfing - Konqueror has quite a few features I haven't seen on any browsers for other OSes (such as getting completion in listboxes right).

Re:Using it?

[egreB]

Or, you could do rpm -i shinynewsoftware-3.2.1.rpm. Just because it's possible, doesn't mean you have to do things the difficult way. That's what's distros like RedHat and Mandrake are for.. (-8

Re:Using it?

[SilentChris]

Some would argue that 2000 is more stable than XP. I know from personal experience this was the first OS from Microsoft I really liked (and I never had it crash -- as opposed to XP).

Re:Using it?

[billcopc]

2000 and XP are both quite excellent as far as stability is concerned. The problem is when you start adding 3rd party software written by cretins, such as Nero Burning Rom, who claim full NT/2k/XP compatibility yet you find yourself installing 98 on a spare partition because ironically, the software is more stable on 98 than it is on 2k. The problem is that Microsoft has made a fair effort to render them all compatible to a certain degree, which hides the fact that some things that work wonders in one OS won't necessarily be as efficient in the others.

Legacy compatibility is a crutch, not a means to an end. Developers should be strongly encouraged (read: whipped and beaten) to use the newer, specially tailored API's proper to the target platform. 2k/XP have a new cd-recording API built right into the core OS that handles most features of cd-burners old and new. Why kludge over it with Adaptec's proven-flaky ASPI drivers ? Reinventing the wheel is fine for CS classes, but in the real world it just creates another problem for everyone to support.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can someone explain these weird version numbering schemes? 2.4.17? pre? ac-? qqrz? 56.22.31pre19?

How about a simpler scheme, one wherein there's a version name such as the complicated ones above, and one where there is a true version number, that's sequential. I'd propose something like v1, v2, v3, etc, but that'd be way to simple.

Re:Using it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or just install a decent Linux Distro like Slackware, tar -yxvf linux-2.5.3.tar.bz2, make oldconfig, make install, reboot, skinup, enjoy.

Re:Using it?

[Cro Magnon]

The last 2.5 version I tried was 2.4.15-greased-turkey. For some odd reason I'm reluctant to try another.

drill

[geekoid]

Not everyone know the drill, perhaps a link to a step by step instructions on how to do it should be included. You don't want to sacare off the new people, do ya?

Re:drill

[furiousgeorge]

New people shouldn't be upgrading their kernel...... ESPECIALLY to an unstable development one.

If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be doing it anyway.

Re:drill

[aclarke]

Not only that, but kernel 2.5.3 of WHAT???

;-)

Re:drill

[MartinG]

Everyone has a first time to install a devel kernel and they need to know how to do it before they can. Besides, completely fscking up your system is a good "lesson" to learn along the way :-)

(BTW, "new people" ??? Aren't they called "babies"? Now they really _shouldn't_ be installing kernels at all. That would be worrying and unnatural to say the least)

Re:drill

[sabinm]

If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be doing it anyway

Riiiight. That's probably why you're still a virgin

Re:drill

[PoshSpod]

On Slashdot there is only one :)

[Unless they announce the new MacOS development releases, which I guess is possible. But they're up to 10.something now!]

Re:drill

[linzeal]

Hey my girlfriend thought she compiled a kernel last time she used mandrakeupdate. Custom kernels might help ~5% of newbies I mean most drivers come with installers and at worst you'll have to insmod them. If they want to go through the rite of passage they can go type "compile linux kernel 2.4.x" into google like the rest of us.

The only kernel I manually compile anymore besides my linux test machine is my 32meg 266mhz linux/dos game machine where it makes a big difference sometimes. I mean some of the kernels from mandrake and redhat are bloaty but on a 512 meg machine operating at 1000mhz+ I don't notice much difference to justify the frustration that sometimes ensues.

Its a lot like those kids that use every beta driver for windows they can find and then bitch about the stability instead of filing reports with the mantainers of the drivers they whine and bitch on web boards.

Re:drill

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be doing it anyway.

I feel the same way about dirty jokes. If you're old enough to get it, you're old enough to hear it.

So this Chinese hooker walks into a bar...

Re:drill

[Webmonger]

Your sig is especially appropriate for that post :-)

It's time to let your children compile devel kernels. It's time to let the bed bugs bite. . .

Re:drill

[Cheetah86]

This is where I learned to compile the kernel for the first time. I compiled it only a few days after getting Red Hat 7.1. Its a good site and for people who want step by step instructions on compiling the kernel this is the howto they need.

Re:drill

[dadaist]

What the fuck? Why is this labeled insightful? I'm a simple end-user of linux (seul) and I've found it no problem or difficulty to recompile the kernel, let alone to apt-get install kernel-image-x.x.x.

Furious george, why not discover the real world for a bit, where not everyone is as stupid as your mother.

Re:drill

[BigBir3d]

Thank you! That link was rather helpful :)

Re:drill

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't it ever occurred to any of you people that this is PRECISELY the reason Linux has yet to make any in-roads in the mainstream, especially on the desktop? "If you don't know how to compile your own kernel, you're so stupid you don't DESERVE this OS" is exactly the reason 95% of the planet uses Microsoft OS's. Face it, unless you want to be a vocal, somewhat annoying minority, you're going to have to suck it up, play the Steve Jobs game, and make this crap easy enough for your grandmas to use. Deal with it.

Re:drill

[mathi]

I do not agree. When I first started using Linux I loved the freedom to upgrade the kernel. After that I was forced to learn about kernel patches and configuring and making my own patches because all kind of hardware didn't work on my laptop. I got so intrested in these processes that I upgraded X, KDE and some small things. By that time my (Redhat) installation was such a mess I started all over with LFS. I would not have learned so much so fast if I didn't start with upgrading!

Re:drill

[Anonymous Coward]

how the hell is anyone suppoed to learn how to compile kernels if you never do it?

Re:drill

[jakobk]

So how did you learn?

Re:drill

[Kjella]

Riiiight. That's probably why you're still a virgin

And you think a step-by-step instruction list would have helped that?

Re:drill

[Archie Steel]

Actually...this has nothing to do with the fact that people don't use Linux. I personally haven't had to recompile my kernel yet, and don't plan to in the near future. I don't consider myself stupid. If I ever need to do it, I'll be able to easily find the instructions online.

The reason why 95% of the world uses MS Windows is a) the fact that people have a great inertia in changing their habits, b) the fact that Microsoft has a quasi-monopoly on Office software (and they won't publish it for Linux) and c) their awesome marketing machine.

The truth is that, once properly setup (which nowadays is as simple as booting with the install disk and sitting back), a Linux computer is as easy to use as a Windows box. In some cases, easier. Don't overestimate's Windows simplicity: as a resident "computer specialist" for my friends and family, I have to say that Windows can be quite obfuscating to the average user sometimes. And let's not talk about the dreaded Registry - how user friendly is that?!

Linux is making inroads in business and high-end computing (read about the recent HP/Dreamworks announcement), it's only a matter of time before it begins to infiltrate the home desktop as well.

Re:drill

[Afrosheen]

The mandrake 2.4.8-24 and 2.4.8-36.1, as well as 2.4.17mdk kernels are NOT bloaty. Rather than compile support for various things in, modules get built and can be inserted/removed when needed. They're super flexible kernels because nearly any oddball device with kernel module support can be loaded up without recompiling the kernel.

I've recompiled 2.4.17 and 2.5.2 myself, and let me tell you, it's hard to match Mandrake's choices for size and flexibility.

Re:drill

[linzeal]

I agree I was talking about some earlier renditions and should of specified.

probably will be slashdotted - here's the changes

[jrs 1]

final:
- Doug Ledford: i810 audio driver update
- Evgeniy Polyakov: update various SCSI drivers to new locking
- David Howells: syscall latency improvement, try 2
- Francois Romieu: dscc4 driver update
- Patrick Mochel: driver model fixes
- Andrew Morton: clean up a few details in ext3 inode initialization
- Pete Wyckoff: make x86 machine check print out right address..
- Hans Reiser: reiserfs update
- Richard Gooch: devfs update
- Greg KH: USB updates
- Dave Jones: PNPBIOS
- Nathan Scott: extended attributes
- Corey Minyard: clean up zlib duplication (triplication..)

pre6:
- Asit Mallick: mtrr update
- Patrick Mochel: split up kernel/device.c into drivers/base
- Mikael Pettersson/Al Viro: fix missing in-core inode initialization
in ext2 introduced by Al's inode trimming
- David Miller: sparc and network updates
- Frank Davis: firewire video mmap page remapping fix
- me: fix configure help scripts to fix breakage noticed by Dave Jones
- Greg KH: USB updates
- Kai Germaschewski: ISDN fixes, Config.help entries
- Douglas Gilbert: SCSI doc update
- Ingo Molnar: x86 taskswitch optimizations, scheduler updates
- Mikael Pettersson: make APIC work on old external setups
- Al Viro: more inode trimming

pre5:
- Patrick Mochel: devicefs locking cleanups, refcount fixes
- Brian Gerst: apic timer cleanup
- Adam Richter: fix loop over block device bio breakage, ipfwadm compile fix
- me: split up Configure.help over the subdirectories where it is used
- Peter Anvin: bootproto v2.03
- Jeff Garzik: net driver updates
- NIIBE Yutaka: SuperH update

pre4:
- Patrick Mochel: initcall levels
- Patrick Mochel: devicefs updates, add PCI devices into the hierarchy
- Denis Oliver Kropp: neomagic fb driver
- David Miller: sparc64 and network updates
- Kai Mäkisara: scsi tape update
- Al Viro: more inode trimming, VFS cleanup
- Greg KH: USB update - proper urb allocations
- Eric Raymond: kdev_t updates for fb devices

pre3:
- Al Viro: VFS inode allocation moved down to filesystem, trim inodes
- Greg KH: USB update, hotplug documentation
- Kai Germaschewski: ISDN update
- Ingo Molnar: scheduler tweaking ("J2")
- Arnaldo: emu10k kdev_t updates
- Ben Collins: firewire updates
- Björn Wesen: cris arch update
- Hal Duston: ps2esdi driver bio/kdev_t fixes
- Jean Tourrilhes: move wireless drivers into drivers/net/wireless,
update wireless API #1
- Richard Gooch: devfs race fix
- OGAWA Hirofumi: FATFS update

pre2:
- David Howells: abtract out "current->need_resched" as "need_resched()"
- Frank Davis: ide-tape update for bio
- various: header file fixups
- Jens Axboe: fix up bio/ide/highmem issues
- Kai Germaschewski: ISDN update
- Greg KH: USB and Compaq PCI hotplug updates
- Tim Waugh: parport update

pre1:
- Al Viro: fix up silly problem in swapfile filp cleanups in 2.5.2
- Tachino Nobuhiro: fix another error return for swapfile filp code
- Robert Love: merge some of Ingo's scheduler fixes
- David Miller: networking, sparc and some scsi driver fixes
- Tim Waugh: parport update
- OGAWA Hirofumi: fatfs cleanups and bugfixes
- Roland Dreier: fix vsscanf buglets.
- Ben LaHaise: include file cleanup
- Andre Hedrick: IDE taskfile update

What A Waste!

[Lethyos]

Really, I still do not understand what the point of patch-release announcements are on /.! This what freshmeat.net is for. This is not major news - this is trivial for everyone except those who are experimenting with the new kernel or developing for it. That's a very tiny subset of the /. population. If you're having a slow night, try posting one of the dozens if not hundreds of valuable stories that are rejected every day!

Re:What A Waste!

[dbarclay10]

Really, I still do not understand what the point of patch-release announcements are on /.! This what freshmeat.net is for. This is not major news - this is trivial for everyone except those who are experimenting with the new kernel or developing for it. That's a very tiny subset of the /. population.

No, Slashdot is what Slashdot is. No more, no less. You have some preconceived notion of what Slashdot *should* be. If you want something else, go somewhere else, because SLASHDOT ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL(probably) REPORT ON SOFTWARE. Yes, even patchlevel releases. Instead of trying to tell Slashdot what you want, and the rest of the people what you think they *should* want, how about you go and find a site which caters to your tastes and your interests?

Re:What A Waste!

[tempest303]

Really, I still do not understand what the point of patch-release announcements are on /.!

I have to agree, but only because this is a *testing* kernel. For all stable releases (ie: 2.4.x for now), I think announcments of new versions is a cool thing - it allows the much much larger base of linux 2.4.x users (as compared to 2.5.x) to discuss the new features/caveats/etc of the latest stable kernel.

Re:What A Waste!

[bruthasj]

Two things:

1. If other OSes released kernels in a timely fashion that Linux does, they would also get equal coverage.

2. You *can* configure your /. to ignore these posts by turning off anything related to the common topic they're released under. OK?

Re:What A Waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want something else, go somewhere else, because SLASHDOT ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL(probably) REPORT ON SOFTWARE. Yes, even patchlevel releases.

Hear, hear.

In semi-related news, OpenHelloWorld has just gone beta! Download the source for sourceforge, now. We've got most of the crash bugs ironed out, I think.

--AC, Sr Developer of the OpenHelloWorld project

Re:What A Waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

Then tell me where the report on the release of Red Hat 7.2 was. Is it just me, or is that not more significant than the latest cutting edge kernel?

There are even updates on the Debian freezing process... Remember kids, Slashdot too has priorities. Things they want you to know, and things they don't want you to...

But I can't see what is so scary about reporting to the kids Red Hat. Anyone want to give me a real reason?

[Anoymous to save my karma]

Re:What A Waste!

[infiniti99]

I agree that Slashdot sometimes reports on certain software that lots of people consider important, even point releases of things like KOffice.

However, I don't remember ever seeing news posts about Linux 2.3, the previous unstable branch (I checked the archive and apparently there were just two). So why are things different now with 2.5?

Re:What A Waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why haven't you reported on Microsoft's Win 2000 security release?

Thought so.... LIAR

Re:What A Waste!

[Graspee_Leemoor]

"1. If other OSes released kernels in a timely fashion that Linux does, they would also get equal coverage. "

If Microsoft released kernels at the same rate Linux did then your copy of Windows would be obsolete before it had finished installing.

If the BSDs and other operating systems all released kernels as often as linux there would be no bandwidth left on the internet.

And to think that if Linus had a patch penguin they could probably release kernels twice as often! Ftp servers would have to start using a filesystem that allowed for nanoseconds in date-stamps!

graspee

Re:What A Waste!

[Woko]

Then tell me where the report on the release of Red Hat 7.2 was

11 Red Hat 7.2 Released by CmdrTaco with 669 comments

Re:What A Waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, maybe because lots of us are *interested* in following the new kernel development progress?

Certainly very few will want to download and start testing the kernel at this early stage, bit I, for one, still are interested to hear when a new version is out and read what people have to say about it. When it reaches a point where something new and interesting is going on, some of us more adventurous types will want to try it out and comment on what is good and what still needs work.

People who complain about this kind of news are in the minority, but there is *always* one or two idiots who bitch about it every time.

Re:What A Waste!

[smash]

Coz redhat sucks balls, and real Linux users use debian :P

Heh. Seriously though, Slashdot is a hobby site about what interests the slashdot guys - articles that THEY consider interesting get published.

If their interests are similar to yours, great. If they publish something you don't care about, don't bitch and moan about it - just don't read the fucking article :)

Simple.

smash

Re:What A Waste!

[chihowa]

I agree with you on this. While a good many people are probably interested in the stable branch point releases (me included), the unstable branch is generally not going to interest as many people. Those who are interested can check up on the kernel.org site for changes.

Now having said that, I think Slashdot should continue posting stories on whatever they see fit, and if a story doesn't interest me (which definitely happens), then I'll ignore it.

That's the big problem with those proposing censorship in any situation. The decision on what an individual gets to see and experience should rest solely with that individual. I don't want people making decisions for me, because they know 'what's best for me'.

I'd rather see more uninteresting (to me) stories on Slashdot than less interesting ones. Of couse, my interests vary from the interests of others, so I should expect to see stories that aren't interesting to me.

People should have the maturity to realize that everybody else in the world does not always agree with them, and shouldn't be punished for not agreeing with them. Take what you want and leave the rest. Judging by the number of comments that each article on the front page gets, every article interests somebody.

Re:What A Waste!

[RickHunter]

Remember that with the 2.3.x series, the release of 2.4.x was somewhat rushed. Why? Because not enough people were testing. Linus couldn't make any further improvements without a wider base of testers, but people just weren't willing to "risk" an "unstable" kernel. So we got 2.4.x before it was really ready, causing a lot of general complaints and confusion.

With Slashdot announcing most major (?) 2.5.x releases, I think they're probably hoping that more people will be curious enough to try them out. The more different systems and use conditions it gets tested under, the more solid the final release will be.

Re:What A Waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

But my copies of Windows usually ARE outdated by the time I finish installing them! Well, at least, according to Microsoft, they are.

Re:What A Waste!

[nomadic]

No, Slashdot is what Slashdot is. No more, no less. You have some preconceived notion of what Slashdot *should* be. If you want something else, go somewhere else, because SLASHDOT ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL(probably) REPORT ON SOFTWARE.

Geeze, calm down, you'd think he insulted you personally.

Slashdot is a public media publication; as such we're perfectly within our right to ask that it be changed. Of course every suggestion is buried under flaming rants insisting that if we don't like it we shouldn't read it.

It's kind of a grade-school logical construction; which can be dismantled thusly--if I didn't like reading slashdot, I wouldn't post suggestions for what in my mind would improve it. I wouldn't care at all.

Re:What A Waste!

[Dahan]

SLASHDOT ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL(probably) REPORT ON SOFTWARE. Yes, even patchlevel releases.

Well, not software in general... slashdot reports on patchlevel releases of the Linux kernel. Other OSes or software rarely get mention unless it's a major release (and sometimes not even then).

I should try submitting an article each time NetBSD's kernel version number changes or something and see if I ever get accepted... "NetBSD 1.5ZB Released!"

Re:What A Waste!

[Anonymous Coward]

"If the BSDs and other operating systems all released kernels as often as linux there would be no bandwidth left on the internet."

No BSD has ever released a kernel. BSDs release complete Operating Systems ;-)

Re:What A Waste!

[ras]

Slashdot no different to other media outlets. The editors choose the stories (no doubt from the 100's that are suggested daily) that they think will appeal to their readers. If they did not do that well Slashdot would not be here.

I am not sure how they guage how appealing a story is, but in Slashdot's case one important metric is the number of posts a story gets. Without posts the story dies. Measured like this kernel releases make pretty good news stories for Slashdot. For example when I wrote this post the stories on the front page attracted an average of 285 posts each. This one had attracted 353 posts, which is well above the average.

In other words your comment "This is not major news - this is trivial for everyone except those who are experimenting with the new kernel or developing for it" is at best irrelevant. Apparently a lot of people do think kernel announcements make interesting news, and for that reason they will continue appear on Slashdot.

Kernel 2.5.3

[Anonymous Coward]

Testing??

Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[ekrout]

Use The Mirrors, Luke!

Please refrain from flooding kernel.org every damn time you post that a new kernel is released. You should link directly to the list of mirrors. As has been said before, anyone who would even venture on compiling and using something like this could easily find the appropriate folder on an FTP mirror from which to download the new source.

That is all.
- Eric Krout

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[tom.allender]

You should link directly to the list of mirrors.

Yeah, but not the list of sites that kernel.org mirrors themselves as they currently are.

http://kernel.org/mirrors/

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[spurious cowherd]

Ummm...as I read it the link is to mirrors.kernel.org.
Can't do much better than that

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[Anonymous Coward]

And what is at mirrors.kernel.org?

Muppet.

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[damiam]

mirrors.kernel.org isn't the mirror page. It's a list of other sites mirrored by kernel.org. The correct URL is http://www.kernel.org/mirrors.

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[Anonymous Coward]

Go have a good look at mirrors.kernel.org

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a problem with the Linux developers. Why is kernel.org mirroring other projects if kernel.org is sending people to other sites to download. In other words, kernel.org lacks sufficient bandwidth for its own uses but it's hosting other sites. How do you know what's a mirror and what's the real deal?

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[Tralfamadorian]

I think it's just that the different software pieces get downloaded heavily at different times (IE a new distro release, a new kernel release, etc).

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[biglig2]

Is that moded redundant because people start screaming about this every time slashdot posts a new kernel release? I'm not sure you're meant to do that, else everytime a story gets posted twice we'd have to mode every comment redundant ;-)

Re:Use The Mirrors, Luke!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck knows anymore? Moderation around here has gone down the shithole. Whatever. Yeah, my comment got moderated to shit, but I don't give a rat's ass.

- 'ekrout'

i WAS running it..

[ByteHog]

until a bug in the 2.5.2 series prevented me from using my swapspace. Everything else worked perfectly though. I'm back to 2.4 until sometime in the near future...

Oh come on...

[GC]

"Lets hit those servers"???

You've got to be kidding?

An early release of a development kernel?

As if....

Re:Oh come on...

[GC]

Moderate parent to +1 - he's got irony!!!

Re:Oh come on...

[GC]

Actually - Mr Anonymous Coward,

I'm already at 50 karma, a situation that you'll certainly never accomplish in your life, that karma means nothing to me anymore.

To prove it - I post this at 2, to give the moderators some extra work.

Please mod me down to -1.

Thanks you complete arsehole.

Re:Oh come on...

[GC]

bing bing bing! bing!!

mod this down to -1 - please.

oh karma to burn... it burns well you know.

Re:Oh come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

Re:Oh come on...

[GC]

Why not???

Re:Oh come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh quit it, dickwad. I don't want to see your posts before the moderators get around to modding them down... thank you!

Re:Oh come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

He started it!!!

New Poll!

[dbretton]

Number of Maintainer Patches Dropped By Linus in 2.5.3:

5
10
30
69
CowboyNeal!

Re:New Poll!

[dunkelfalke]

you forgot 42

Kernel development

[Metrollica]

Why does the kernel go through stable and then unstable forks? Can't it always be a stable build, like with Windows?

Re:Kernel development

[ryusen]

i think the comparason would be:
linux unstable/development (2.odd) == windows beta
linux "beta" == windows gold
linux stable == windows after 3 service packs

or something like that

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

you got it all wrong:
linux development=windows alpha
linux beta= windows beta
linux stable= windows beta

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows atleast is useable!
Linux is not!

Re:Kernel development

[Matthew Luckie]

linux unstable/development (2.odd) == windows beta
linux "beta" == windows gold
linux stable == windows after 3 service packs

GNU/Linux wookies are still living in the unstable days of Windows 95.

Just keep hoping that Microsoft make security blunders or GNU/Linux will have to try and compete on usability, and you really don't want that.

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, back here in reality, windows NT and its descendants rarely crash, except as a result of bad drivers or hardware problems.

The major problems I have with windows 2000 are:

1) It's made by Microsoft.

2) It's made by Microsoft.

3) Hefty hardware requirements.

4) The shell is still not nearly as powerful or flexible as bash.

The major problems I have with linux are:

1) It's made by GNU/zealots.

2) Terrible (nonintuitive) interfaces. It's almost not worth my time to learn all the arcana required just to set up a single-user box.

3) No real tech support.

4) X-windows blows. The window managers are all right, but a lot of the apps have a clumsy feel.

BTW, Windows 95 WAS terribly unstable, but NT is NOT. Deal with it.

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

what you're saying is that we need a third, non-win32, non-unix OS?

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you, but I find UNIX-likes infinitely more usable than any version of Windows I've ever used (yes, that includes NT).

It's all a matter of taste. If someone says one thing is more usable than other, someone else is bound to say the opposite. Different strokes for different folks.

Re:Kernel development

[Iguanaphobic]

Had one, killed it. OS/2!

Re:Kernel development

[DiscoOnTheSide]

It's called MacOS X

Re:Kernel development

[jsse]

Why does the kernel go through stable and then unstable forks? Can't it always be a stable build, like with Windows

and call the patches "expansion" or "enhancement"!

Don't forget to replace all -pre to -prerelease or -earlybird too!

While Microsoft 'embrace and extend' Linux/BSD's technologies, why couldn't we 'embrace and extend' their marketing tricks?

Re:Kernel development

[archen]

it's not unstable, it's packed full of 'features'

Re:Kernel development

[taniwha]

Why does the kernel go through stable and then unstable forks? Can't it always be a stable build, like with Windows?

Because Linux development is don't in public in front of everyone, The unstable portion of Windows development is done behind closed doors and not seen by the public (given Windows past tendancy to crash when sneezed on it's arguable that some portion is really done in public).

That's the difference between open source and closed source - you get to see the stuff as it's being developed and if you want you can get involved and do some yourself. On the other hand if you only want to use the stable versions stick with the even numbered releases (2.0, 2.2, 2.4).

Re:Kernel development

[BlowCat]

It's made by GNU/zealots.

Wrong. Linux kernel is written by professional programmers. Have you ever talked to anybody mentioned in the kernel changelog?

Re:Kernel development

[Ryan Amos]

OS X is very much UNIX. It just has a prettier face.

Re:Kernel development

[talonyx]

Way to realize that the post was a joke, Captain Obvious.

Re:Kernel development

[JWW]

Yeah, that would be too bad. But then in a few years our problems will be the operating system automatically using our credit card information to charge us our yearly "Windows usage fee." That might keep people using Linux.

Face it Microsoft is only baby steps (and one pathetic settlement with the DOJ) away from making this a reality.

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a professional programmer does not imply programming in a professional manner.

Re:Kernel development

[Anonymous Coward]

That particular snide comment is no more or less applicable to Linux programmers than those at Microsoft or Apple.

Sure, we all know a few people who do sloppy work and still get paid for it - but it doesn't make sense to suggest that it's below-average professionals who'd go out and work on something as exceptional as Linux for free - and if they do then their patches get rejected.

Why not try the same troll on a few closed-source targets? You might find it amusing to compare the different responses..

Re:Kernel development

[PsyeX]

LOL

Wake up and smell yourself...
Since when has Windows been stable????

Re:Kernel development

[mrfiddlehead]

Don't be too smug there Mr Metrollica. My experience, humble as it may be, with linux 2.4.x has been that it was unstable until 2.5 appeared. Well, after that one little problem was cleared up in 2.5. Anyway, my point is, that even in the stable fork it takes a while for it to become stablised.

BTW, don't get me wrong, the guys and gals working on the kernel are a talented bunch and 2.4 is a vast improvement in many ways over 2.2.

Re:Kernel development

[spudnic]

You mean all the kernel developers don't waste the day away reading /.? Blasphemy! How are they expected to know when the next release comes out?

.

Re:Kernel development

[dannyrap]

Why does the kernel go through stable and then unstable forks? Can't it always be an unstable build, like with Windows?

Small Notes

[worldwideweber]

(1) If you get any link errors when compiling your new kernel which refer to lock_kernel and unlock_kernel. Just add #include to whatever files generate the complaints.

(2) If you have any SCSI drives that were broken because of the Block IO Layer changes, then this kernel most likely fixes them. Apparently, the "various scsi driver fixes" includes the parallel port zip driver (ppa.c) for any who care :).

Patches!!

[The Pi-Guy]

Ok ok ok - we all know that kernel.org's got some cashflow problems, so people PLEASE use the mirrors and patches!! To apply the patch, from the older version, CD in, then use patch -p1 kernel-2.5.3.patch (or whatever.) Make sure to make clean first also, just for paranoia. Anyway, have fun.

--joshua
P.S. Not redundant, no one's said this yet.

Re:Patches!!

[Anonymous Coward]

we all know that kernel.org's got some cashflow problems


Since when has kernel.org been owned by VA Linux/Software/Research/Janitors?

Re:Patches!!

[GigsVT]

You know, the kernel.org guys never claimed cash flow problems, they just wanted another "main site" mirror for redundancy.

After the outage when /. ran the story, everyone just ASS-U-ME ed that it was cash flow problems, when the LKML archive clearly shows it was just technical difficulties.

That said, people should be getting diffs when they can anyway, there is no point in wasting bandwidth.

Re:Patches!!

[jsse]

Ok ok ok - we all know that kernel.org's got some cashflow problems, so people PLEASE use the mirrors and patches!!

I agree, but downloading from kernel.org is just too convenient...I know 90% of people would feel the same. :)

Btw, while the mirrors are official sites, why couldn't kernel.org automatically redirectly the requests to their mirrors according to clients' origin? I'm sure the cost of running kernel.org would be significantly lowered.

Technically it's feasible because many people has already done this for commercial servers. Is there any difficulties(political? Legal? Ownership?) make it impossible?

Just wonder.

Re:Patches!!

[Phexro]

a better way to do it:

$ tar -xzjf linux-x.y.z.tar.bz2
$ sh ./linux/scripts/patch-kernel ./linux /path/to/patches

this will apply all the patches in /path/to/patches in the correct order to bring the source tree to the latest version you have a patch for.

Re:Patches!!

[hpa]

Technically it's feasible because many people has already done this for commercial servers. Is there any difficulties(political? Legal? Ownership?) make it impossible?

The difficulties are administrative/ownership. We (the kernel.org staff) has no real control of the mirrors, so I can't guarantee that any particular mirror is always up to date. For that reason, it seems more fair to let users at least know that they're using a mirror.

That being said, the mirror system participants provide a huge service, without which we would certainly have bandwidth problems.

Re:Patches!!

[dadaist]

A monk once asked Joshu, "Has a dog the
Buddha-Nature?"
Joshu answered, "Mu!"

--joshu
P.S. This is redundant, becuase it was said over 1,000 years ago.

Re:Patches!!

[balthan]

If you just changed your domain name I bet you wouldn't have such a big problem.

These are a bit annoying

[ByTor-2112]

As a regular Slashdot reader, and avid FreeBSD user, I really really find these announcements to be useless spam. I can't turn off the LINUX category because there is interesting stuff there, but it is really necessary to annouce each DEVELOPMENT kernel? I can see announcing a new stable release, or a release with some really serious changes... But this is a bit excessive.

Re:These are a bit annoying

[Anonymous Coward]

Did this news hurt you in any way? did it take away any valuable space? how did the posting of this story affect you in any negative way? It's one story about something you don't care about, deal with it.

Re:These are a bit annoying

[ArsonSmith]

a few bites of html is excessive?????????

My god how much do you pay for your bandwidth?????

I kinda like it.

Re:These are a bit annoying

[nice]

Hell, I thought it was a stable release when I heard it on Slashdot. Then I rushed to get it and man was I burned.

Re:These are a bit annoying

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why are you clicking on the story? If you aren't interested in it, DONT READ IT..

Or are you one of those people who must click on every link and story that they see, just so they can cram their ideas down everyone's throats?

Re:These are a bit annoying

[Anonymous Coward]

2.4 is the stable release, 2.5 is for develop.

Re:probably will be slashdotted - here's the chang

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe it's my work's connection but i can't get there anymore - it's not redundant for me!

Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Burritos]

I want MovieOS! You know MovieOS! It's the operating system used in such movies as Hackers. Where.. you know, you hack into a machine and your face appears on the computer! When does MovieOS become available for public release?

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Anonymous Coward]

I want the one where everything you type is in 100-point font visible from across the room, and when you type your password wrong a big skull-and-crossbones pops up on the screen.

...Yeah.

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[madrouter]

the game uplink, though isnt quite as flashy as some movie interfaces, but I think it certainly looks like it came straight out of 'the net' or even 'sneakers'

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the uninitiated, I think this is a reference to a storyline in user friendly.
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=2001011 1

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Dante'sPrayer]

apt-get install xscreensaver
/usr/lib/xscreensaver/phosphor
I won't say more.

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[BJH]

I want a monitor that projects the screen onto my face, so I can look really 1337.
And an email program that can send mail to people that I've never met and have no idea what their address may be.
And a tracing program that shows me a big map of the phone lines people are using when they try to h4XXoR me.
And a communication protocol that can do live, streaming video over a 14.4K modem.

What I want to know is, where does Hollywood get their technical advisors?

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my God, You are So FUCKING HILARIOUS!

Look at me! I'm rolling over with laughter. Someone call the hospital. Hahahahaha.

Yeah. Right.

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like this?

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[jsveiga]

IIRC, the guy at Independence Day wirelessly hacked into an alien mothership's computer with an Apple notebook. I suppose the OS you mention is REALLY good at interoperability.

Windows XP Home Edition (came with my notebook) can't even network logon - although "help" says it does. Windows 9X could do it!!!

Re:Do you know what Operating System I want?

[Anonymous Coward]

what's to stop me from fucking your ass?

Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[glwtta]

Slashdot shouldn't be announcing these! Whine whine whine, bitch bitch bitch... This doesn't belong here!! Waaaahhh!!! This just shows how much slashdot has come down in quality. I hate JonKatz. I don't know how not to click on a link.

(italics just seemed whinier for some reason)

Not interested? DON'T CLICK ON THE FUCKING STORY AND DON'T POST TO THE FUCKING DISCUSSION. Get a life. Go outside and play.

I for one don't check kernel.org daily, I do want to know when the new patches come out, I do check /. daily - is the overwhelming sense of something logical and useful dawning on you yet?

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[Naikrovek]

you're a dweeb.

if you want to know when the latest kernel patches come out, you don't watch the cartoon network to find out. YOU GO TO KERNEL.ORG. when you want to know the best and worst thing about america (that thing: everyone has a voice) you read slashdot, and when you want to know when the latest kernel patches are out, YOU READ KERNEL.ORG.

i don't want to see anyone trying to justify slashdot "news" stories on development kernels, because you can't justify them. people who want to know this stuff, know to go to kernel.org to find out, and if you don't, then you're lazy.

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[GigsVT]

Well, this is a Linux News site, whether anyone wants to deny that or not.

But anyway, it might be better if they put kernel releases into their own topic, so people could exclude it, at least it would limit bitching, and only take 5 minutes to implement.

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not make everyone happy, and move them to a different topic that can be turned off?

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[dadaist]

Not interested? DON'T CLICK ON THE FUCKING STORY AND DON'T POST TO THE FUCKING DISCUSSION. Get a life. Go outside and play.

Sounds like you need to go out and play more often.

Btw, the best troll ever.

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

In a perfect world, your argument would be fine and rational. But in reality, kernel.org has bandwidth issues. It went down twice in the last month. Being on the frontpage of Slashdot does not help those issues.

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[Warped-Reality]

It is? I don't see any "News for Linux Nerds" text on the site.... I guess they better stop posting FreeBSD articles

Re:Waaah!!! it's a kernel patch Waaaahhh!!!

[mikera]

I think that having announcements like this on Slashdot is effective. If I may draw a programming analogy:

It's an event driven notification system. These work because they deliver relevant information at the relevant time, allowing you to focus otherwise on all the the other activities you are interested in.

Going to kernel.org and the other 50 or so sites that *might* have an interesting release that day is a polling system, and far less efficient since 90% of the time you are checking for something that hasn't happened.

Aunts and Mirrors

[Jacek Poplawski]

"I just stopped using Windows and now you tell me to use Mirrors?" - said Aunt Tillie, just before compiling 2.5.3 kernel.

Re:Aunts and Mirrors

[dagoalieman]

"Mirror Mirror on the wall,
who's the fair.."

**crack**

"Darn.. must have been unstable..."

Sorry.. had to.. You may flog me now..

Re:Aunts and Mirrors

[pimpinmonk]

"I just stopped using Windows and now you tell me to use Mirrors?" - said Aunt Tillie, just before compiling 2.5.3 kernel.

Now that Aunt Tillie has become one of the obligatory post topics...

"You know what'd be awesome? A Beowulf Cluster of Aunt Tillies!"

Future of Linux kernel

[Metrollica]

If anyone is wondering about the future builds of Linux, here they are.

(This message is long, but hopefully interesting? Please read it!)

An idea for a "variation on the theme" for version numbers occurred to me a
while back, but with 2.4 coming soon, this seems like an opportune time to
suggest it and see if anyone likes it...

The Linux kernel established the current scheme with version 1.0, and it
has been widely copied since. (Was it used before then by anyone else?)
Even numbers in the version number for stable releases and odd numbers for
development releases has worked quite well. This encodes some meaning into
the version number, which makes the status of kernel versions easier to
identify. I'd like to extend this further by adding a digit to development
version numbers representing the current phase of the development cycle.
This is easiest to explain by way of an example proposal:

2.4.xx Current stable release series. (Well, almost current.)

2.5.0.xx Initial integration -- No architectural changes allowed
while the inevitable backlog of pending patches from the
last stabilization effort are integrated and stabilized.
The final 2.5.0.xx release should be re-released as a new
2.4.1 stable release. This series should resemble a
combination of 2.5.8.xx and 2.5.9.xx below, and should be
suitable for non-mission-critical production use. This is
a fork from the stable series that re-merges once before
diverging again for radical development work.

2.5.1.xx EXTREMELY unstable -- Major architectural changes, any new
features and major feature changes allowed as the tree is
thrown wide open for bizarre and wild experimental work,
much of which may be discarded as experimental prototypes
prove that some ideas that sounded good weren't so good.
Suitable only for the extremely brave or foolish. Even
developers may wish to avoid this series unless they're
doing the experimenting. Expect constant crashing.

2.5.2.xx VERY unstable -- Much like 2.5.1.xx series, but experiments
should a little less wild now. Best time to focus on the
major architectural changes that are goals for the 2.6.xx
stable series. Most developers would want to work with
this series, but not depend on it heavily for daily use.
Expect nearly constant crashing.

2.5.3.xx Unstable -- Significant architectural changes, new features
and major feature changes allowed. Most experimental work
should be finished by now; new experimental work should be
developed in a forked tree until suitable for integration
into development tree. Suitable for developers, should be
stable for short periods of time. Expect frequent crashes.

2.5.4.xx Almost stable -- Reasonable architectural changes allowed,
new features and major feature changes allowed. Suitable
for developers only, but "bleeding edge" users may want to
try it out briefly. Expect random crashes, but should be
stable enough to be more-or-less usable.

2.5.5.xx Somewhat stable -- Small architectural changes allowed,
new features and significant feature changes allowed.
Suitable for developers and "bleeding edge" users only.
Expected to crash once or twice per day, but should be
stable for hours at a time.

2.5.6.xx Reasonably stable -- Minor architectural changes allowed,
medium feature changes allowed. Suitable for experimental
servers or the more patient of the average desktop users.
Not suitable for any production use; may crash several
times per week.

2.5.7.xx Mostly stable -- No architectural changes allowed, new
features and small feature changes allowed. Should be
suitable for the average desktop user or for a test server.
Not suitable for most production use; expected to crash
every few weeks or so.

2.5.8.xx Initial release candidates -- No architectural changes, and
only minor feature changes or clean new features allowed.
Bugfixes and carefully selected patches only. Should be
suitable for production use only on non-mission-critical
systems. (This series would be equivalent to "pre" series
in the past preceding a new stable release series.)

2.5.9.xx Final release candidates -- No architectural, new features
or feature changes allowed at all. Bugfixes ONLY; final
tuning before 2.6.xx stable release series. Final release
candidates should be almost suitable for production use on
mission-critical systems, as any stable series release
should be. (This depends on getting 2.5.8.xx used on some
production systems first...)
The 2.5.9.xx series should REPLACE the traditional initial
stable series stabilization efforts. The final release in
this series should be re-released as 2.6.0 and 2.7.0.0 with
no changes but the version number -- if more bugfixes are
needed, it's not time yet. Only when it's time to fork for
a new development series should the stable series be
declared. (This should avoid embarassments like 2.2.0 --
a "stable" release that crashed rather easily...)
2.6.xx Next stable release series.

-
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Re:Future of Linux kernel

[BasharTeg]

> 2.4.xx Current stable release series. (Well, almost current.)

(Well, almost stable.)

Can't argue with the term -series- though.

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you moderators appreciate this is just this guy's idea, and not actually the current release versioning system used for 2.5. The fact that he made 2.5.3 bold would lead you to believe otherwise.

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[srn_test]

This (or similar schemes) have been discussed on LKML several times in the last few years.

The basic objection is that the kernel doesn't develop like that; it's more like:

2.5.x

1 = x = 10 Unstable.
11 = x = 20 more stable

21 stable-ish

22 = x = 30 unstable again.

And so on. For example, I think 1.1.59 was the kernel of choice for distributions for about 6 months...

Stephen

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[Error27]

I don't think the moderators realized...

If they had, it would have been "interesting" instead of "informative" right?

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[jo42]

2.5.99: And thanks for all the fish.

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[kinnunen]

BAD idea. Throwing in all the major architectural changes at once will result in total chaos that is going to be next to impossible to fix. Do you get disk corruption because:
a) block caching was altered
b) VFS was changed
c) ext2 was rewritten
d) any/all of the above combined with the new scheduler/VM/device numbering?

Oh and lets not forget linux isn't exclusively x86. If fixing one arch is hard, try to imagine fixing 20.

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[Deven]

I hope you moderators appreciate this is just this guy's idea, and not actually the current release versioning system used for 2.5. The fact that he made 2.5.3 bold would lead you to believe otherwise.

Actually, it was my idea (posted to the linux-kernel mailing list on May 10, 2000), but the other poster above didn't bother to attribute credit for it. (Although I think it was really more of a sarcastic comment on 2.5.3's stability, the way that section was bolded.)

That was an idea I came up with off the top of my head, looking for a way to move the "should be stable but oops, not" kernels out of the "stable" series into the "development" series (thinking of 2.2.0 for example) -- by adding a fourth digit to indicate the status, so that release candidates could get production testing before getting branded as "stable". Once a fourth digit was added, I figured that I might as well try to fill in the other numbers with vague-but-useful state indicators for earlier stages of development. That post to linux-kernel was my first attempt, off the top of my head.

I developed this idea further, in response to some of the discussion on linux-kernel about my idea, but in the end I decided against using it. My brother convinced me that encoding this much meaning into numeric identifiers required a lot of advance knowledge about the system to make any sense of the version numbers, and harried system administrators wouldn't take the time to learn.

I finally decided to use a different approach, where "stable" releases are all-numeric numbers (e.g. 1.0.0) while "development" releases always contain an alphabetic intended-state tag (e.g. 1.0.0.beta.1) and discarding the even/odd notion from Linux. This way, development versions are more self-identifying, and release candidates (suitable for production testing) would have an "rc" tag (e.g. 1.0.0.rc.3).

The idea is that the "stable" release (e.g. 1.0.0) would be completely identical to the last "rc" release (e.g. 1.0.0.rc.3) except for the version number change. If there's a temptation to add "one last patch" (no matter how minor), make a new "rc" version and let it make the rounds first. This would avoid embarassments like 2.2.0 and certain 2.4.x releases, which are marked "stable" by their version number, but were quite unstable in practice...

I tried to include my writeup of the all-numeric system I ended up with before I gave up on it, but Slashdot's "lameness filter" rejected it. Maybe it's a sign. :-) (Interested parties can send me email and I'll mail a copy of the writeup...)

Re:Future of Linux kernel

[Deven]

BAD idea. Throwing in all the major architectural changes at once will result in total chaos that is going to be next to impossible to fix.

Well, I was just trying to come up with something that could be used for the Linux kernel, and which would hopefully reflect the existing development process to some degree. Unfortunately, it appears that "total chaos" is the usual state of the Linux kernel soon after forking off a new development series. (Didn't early 1.1.x, 1.3.x, 2.1,x and 2.3.x kernels all have this sort of chaos?)

And yes, it's hard to fix -- which might explain why it seems to take 2-3 years to get from one stable series to the next! A more controlled development process might work better, but that's not up to me...

In the end, I abandoned this all-numeric version numbering scheme anyhow. I'm trying a different scheme now, but I haven't nailed down all the details or written it up yet...

Re:Is it safe?

[Anonymous Coward]

you are too knowledge-insufficient to even think about linux. linux is a serious toy that can be configured to be an OS, get some knowledge while using windows _NT_(XP Pro) and try programming in C++ or java, then you'll maybe be ready to run a stable working linux. that's what it took me, and still, I reply using windows XP

Nice release

[daserver]

This is a very nice release. As you can see from the changelog the new ide drivers are finally in 2.5.x. Lets hope this will give Marcelo one more reason to include them in 2.4.x.
The O(1) Scheduler from Ingo is also in here (version J9) at the moment.

All of these patches are also available for 2.4.x! Im running aa WM, scheduler O(1) and the new ide patches right now and have been for more than a wekk without any problems whatsoever. Also for those of you that want to try riks VM there's also a patch for that.
Anyway those patches are only for those of you adventoures like me :-). But it has been said that Rik's VM brings the VM back to the -ac13 state.

Re:Nice release

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir are the perfect example of a blatant karma whore.

Re:Nice release

[glwtta]

I thought Marcelo went back to Rik's VM with 2.4.something-before-17? Ah, what do I know about kernels...

Re:Nice release

[daserver]

No, right now 2.4.x is using aa VM. Aa has actually mentioned that he talk the marcelo about syncing the main kernel with his aa series.

Re:Nice release

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. Sheesh.

Re:Nice release

[Libor Vanek]

Can you please explain what scheduler is good for (scheduling time to proceses?) and why O(1) is better than current? Thx

Re:Nice release

[daserver]

Well it's not easy to explain in short because there is a lot of computer science in it. But let me just try to explain it simple. O is the notation of big O, it comes from time complexity. O(1) means that the time used code is constant, no matter how large the problem is, it will take a given time. But I havn't said anything about how large that time is (the constant). Anyway, benchmarks has shown that the new scheduler is much better if you have multiple processorers, but doesn't really give that much if you run a single processor. So what it adds up to is that the new scheduler is much better or smp.

Re:Nice release

[Anonymous Coward]

Marcelo's not going to change VMs unless Linus tells him to. However, Rik VM is still maintained outside of the tree, and is still in the running for 2.5.

Re:Nice release

[Libor Vanek]

Well, I have passed exam from time/space complexity problems (constat/linear/exponencial/polynomial etc. - P/NP classes) so I know what are you talking about. But I don't understand what does it with process scheduling - it means that time to decide which process will be now active is always constant or that each process is active a for constant time?

Re:Nice release

[Anonymous Coward]

Benchmarks posted to the linux-kernel mailing list show an improvement on single-processor systems too. And the interactivity handling under big load is much improved as well.

CML2

[smak]

What I want to know is when the new build language takes over ?

Any idea folks ?

Re:CML2

[Ilmari]

To pick a nit, CML2 is the new config language. The new build system is kubild2.5, developed by Keith Owens.

Re:CML2

[Anonymous Coward]

It's indeterminate. There are political issues involved, in the same family as that "is it time for a patch penguin" story posted this week.

Re:CML2

[mrfiddlehead]

The new build system is kubild2.5

How do you pronounce that? Cuebild or Coobild?

BTW, does anyone else think that kbuild sounds like it is somehow related to KDE? Funny how that happens.

Re:CML2

[Ilmari]

The new build system is kubild2.5

How do you pronounce that? Cuebild or Coobild?

Damn, I even previewed the comment! Of course I meant kbuild2.5, pronounced "kay-build two point five" (doh).

Looks like it's devel kernel for sure

[Turmio]

Damn, no ATA RAID for me, then :)
This one has been reported on the LKML some weeks ago but AFAIK now fix is made public yet...

make[3]: Entering directory `/usr/src/linux/drivers/ide'
ld -m elf_i386 -r -o ide-mod.o ide-taskfile.o ide.o ide-features.o ide-adma.o ide-dma.o ide-pci.o pdc202xx.o via82cxxx.o ide-proc.o
ld -m elf_i386 -r -o ide-probe-mod.o ide-probe.o ide-geometry.o
gcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-trigraphs -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -pipe -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -march=i686 -malign-functions=4 -DEXPORT_SYMTAB -c ataraid.c
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_ioctl':
ataraid.c:73: invalid operands to binary &
ataraid.c:72: warning: `minor' might be used uninitialized in this function
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_open':
ataraid.c:83: invalid operands to binary &
ataraid.c:82: warning: `minor' might be used uninitialized in this function
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_release':
ataraid.c:94: invalid operands to binary &
ataraid.c:93: warning: `minor' might be used uninitialized in this function
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_make_request':
ataraid.c:105: structure has no member named `b_rdev'
ataraid.c:103: warning: `minor' might be used uninitialized in this function
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_split_request':
ataraid.c:182: structure has no member named `b_rsector'
ataraid.c:193: warning: passing arg 1 of `generic_make_request' makes pointer from integer without a cast
ataraid.c:193: too many arguments to function `generic_make_request'
ataraid.c:194: warning: passing arg 1 of `generic_make_request' makes pointer from integer without a cast
ataraid.c:194: too many arguments to function `generic_make_request'
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_register_disk':
ataraid.c:233: incompatible type for argument 2 of `register_disk'
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_init':
ataraid.c:249: `hardsect_size' undeclared (first use in this function)
ataraid.c:249: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
ataraid.c:249: for each function it appears in.)
ataraid.c:280: warning: passing arg 2 of `blk_queue_make_request' from incompatible pointer type
ataraid.c: In function `ataraid_exit':
ataraid.c:289: `hardsect_size' undeclared (first use in this function)
make[3]: *** [ataraid.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux/drivers/ide'
make[2]: *** [first_rule] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux/drivers/ide'
make[1]: *** [_subdir_ide] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux/drivers'
make: *** [_dir_drivers] Error 2

Re:Is it safe?

[Anonymous Coward]

See what I mean? People are mean when someone who hasn't used Linux starts asking questions! And all of the time I have been reading here (because I thought I read somewhere that it wsa good for computer stuff, especially Linux) I see people say that Linux is about to be used by everyone. I'm confused. :-(

Or were you making a joke becasue I said people were mean? If so, I'm sorry I don't have a good sense of humor!!!! LOL!!! :-)

Patches?

[You Are A Dumbass]

I got yer patches right here!

mirrors

[Xandu]

Note:

mirrors.kernel.org is NOT the list of mirrors of the kernel, it's the list of mirrors of other sites.

For the kernel, you want www.kernel.org/mirrors/ to find your local mirror of kernel.org (which is usually www.COUNTRYCODE.kernel.org).

Re:mirrors

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if kernel.org didn't mirror so many other sites, they wouldn't be having so many problems covering their bandwidth bills.

Re:mirrors

[hpa]

We don't have any problem covering our bandwidth bills, because ISC graciously gives us bandwidth at no charge. I would like to get another server for redundancy, but that's a completely different issue.

As far as mirrors of other sites are concerned, that's what class-based queueing is for. If we are saturated (which we rarely are) traffic gets prioritized, with outbound mirrors getting high priority and our mirrors of other sites getting low priority.

Re:mirrors

[BJH]

Could someone mod the parent post up? That's H. Peter Anvin, the admin of kernel.org...

genuine

[jrs 1]

what he said was a genuine suggestion for improvement, which is something that would be good for all of us. accepting slashdot as being whatever slashdot is a very apathetic view to take. if everyone took the same view of linux, nothing would get done; can you imagine alan cox saying "oh, well, it doesn't support ata 100 drives, oh well, linux is what linux is". this guy's suggestion was a good one and should, at *least*, be considered.

Re:genuine

[dbarclay10]

It was a whine and it was insulting to those who run Slashdot.

I'd accept that argument if a) there had been no !. b) they had not said "this is not news", c) has not referred to freshmeat.net, and d) the part about it being trivial.

Re:genuine

[Jburkholder]

no,

That was a redundant complaint, not a "genuine suggestion for improvement". This happens *every* time! Someone moans about why this is on Slashdot. In case no one has figured it out by now, Rob & the rest post what is interesting to them because their interests appeal to a large enough crowd to make this site successful. Why would he change that now?

Re:Is it safe?

[Jacek Poplawski]

linux is a serious toy that can be configured to be an OS

How can I configure linux to be an OS? Do I need crack?

Lame

[susano_otter]

Goddammit! Why do the editors keep posting inane stories about some questionable hobbyists' OS? News for Nerds? Maybe. Stuff that matters? Certainly not! More news about habitable planets, junkyard wars, and stem cell research, please!

Re:Is it safe?

[Anonymous Coward]

well, both, erm, umm, uhh, ehh, linux really is a _toy_ for computer geeks. to get real work done, you need to have an inside-out turned/tweaked WindowsXP like mine

incredible moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

the ones who "whine whine whine, bitch bitch bitch" get modded to kingdom come, while the ones to tell these people to fuck off are "insightful" (in the slashdot sense, not the real-world-sense).

these types of posts are two sides of the same coin, yet one opinion is more right to the slashdot editors/moderators.

incredible.

Re:incredible moderation

[glwtta]

while the ones to tell these people to fuck off are "insightful"

Yeah, weird, isn't it? I can't say I agree with my bitching being insightful enough for a 4, but then again, I am not moderating. I think we just need new moderation options, like "Venting" and "Fuck Yeah!"

Nathan Scott: extended attributes ??!

[Adnans]

But where is XFS? Extended attributes (arbitrary tuples for files) support would be cool. But we need XFS for that since that's the only Linux FS that supports this right now, I think.

Re:Nathan Scott: extended attributes ??!

[Anonymous Coward]

It is here scott !

www.gentoo.org

Re:Nathan Scott: extended attributes ??!

[Anonymous Coward]

"But where is XFS? Extended attributes (arbitrary tuples for files) support would be cool. But we need XFS for that since that's the only Linux FS that supports this right now, I think."

XFS was dropped on the floor with the rest of the kernel patches that did not make it. I'm sure there is a good reason for it. I've heard good things about this aa patch for 2.4.17 http://www.digitalroadkill.net/Patches/2.4.17-xfs- aa.patch.bz2 and it seems to improve things on my box. See http://www.lib.uaa.alaska.edu/linux-kernel/archive /2002-Week-04/1028.html for the text.

Re:Nathan Scott: extended attributes ??!

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM HPFS support this for years. JFS is going to support this, as well as defragmentation. On the same file system, the extended attributes stick to the file, copy and moving them will move the extended attributes together. You can store thumbnails (limited size) of a media file onto the extended attribute. Things like mp3 tags exists because very few filesystem support extended attributes.

Re:Nathan Scott: extended attributes ??!

[Frohboy]

Actually, support seems to be coming along quite nicely for ext2. Patches are available here. I've been using the acl implementation (just a special case of Extended Attributes) for about two years now on a production server. Works beautifully for finer-grained file permissions. Also, the project leader (Andreas Gruenbacher) seems to communicate frequently with both the Samba team (to allow modification of Linux ACLs from an NT client) and the XFS team (to ensure that the API is common across implementations.)

Re:Is it safe?

[Anonymous Coward]

by OS I mean the one that can be used to get the work done, not sit around in bash and vi configing shell scripts

linux betting pool

[Anonymous Coward]

Everytime a new linux kernel is released, my friends and I all start a betting pool on what feature will be horribly broken. If it turns out there's nothing major, the money recycles into the next release. My friend Andy won $200 betting the VM would shit itself!

Come on FS integrety errors! Big Money!

Re:linux betting pool

[dadaist]

I doubt that.

Now, turn up your cards.

• (I bet I win)

Who needs it...

[Anonymous Coward]

... when FreeBSD 4.5 is out?!

Makes me wonder

[TeknoHog]

If you think about 'nerd' as someone whose interests are completely inane to the general public, it might be that the phrases 'News for nerds' and 'Stuff that matters' are pretty much mutex. Either that, or they are -1, Redundant, because much of this news stuff only matters to nerds.

Google cache?

[Webmoth]

It's about time the Google implemented a system to automatically mirror or cache every page linked to on Slashdot (as soon as the link appears) so we have some place to go when the original site gets slashdotted.

Re:Google cache?

[scrytch]

This gets brought up so many times it should probably be in the FAQ. Maybe it is by now. Slashdot does not link to the google cache because they don't have any arrangement with google, and there is no such deal because they do not want sites that depend on banner impressions (amazingly some folks think banner ads still make money) naming them as a party in a lawsuit that claims they conspired to redirect traffic away from their site. It wouldn't matter if the suit had merit, all it takes is one dot-bomb that decides lawsuit shakedowns are its new revenue stream to make life hell for a lot of people at OSDN.

'course maybe someone will sue slashdot for linking to them in the first place...

Re:Is it safe?

[ArsonSmith]

> I've been wanting to get into this Linux thing for a while, but I'm kinda confused. And nervous.

Understandable

>What is a kernal and changelog?

A kernel is computer code that makes your computer start up and lets you do stuff on it. This is all before your operating system. (the part you are most familiar with likely Windows or MacOS)

The Changelog is a developer documentation that says what has changed in this program.

> And how come everyone that uses it seems to hostile to a newbie asking questions?

Because these are the wrong people for newbies to be asking. This would be like asking the Mechanical engeneers how to change sparkplugs in a car. You need to try directing your questions to one of the distributions
http://redhat.com
http://mandrakelinux.com
http://debian.org
http://slackware.org

> Also, how do you run it?

It requires an install from a distribution first. (see answer from above)

>I tried opening it with winzip and that didn't work.

Yes opening it with winzip would work for the kernel source as you would get a bunch of "C" programming files in a nice neat directory. this is like getting the blue prints to a house to open the front door. (again please see the distribution list above)

>Adaware didn't call it (well, I downloaded something called from www.redhat.com but it didn't work) spyware or anything, but I know alot of freeware has spyware on it. Is linux like that?

Most stuff in linux does not have spyware. Although there is no technical reason for it, it is generaly frowned apon and seen as bad.

> Also, is it REALLY free?

Yes

>Or is it one of those things where you will use it for 30 days and then it takes forever to come up when you click on its icon until you pay?

no there is no payment needed to get the software.

I hope this helps.

Well

[/dev/trash]

Since most of 2.4.x has been pretty much beta why should I go to 2.5 for testing????

Re:Well

[glwtta]

So that 2.6 isn't "beta" when it's released ;)

me 2!

[dimator]

cat /var/slashdot/post/#2928299 | sed s/daily/minutely/

Re:me 2!

[Anonymous Coward]

cat: input error on /var/slashdot/post/: Is a directory

Re:me 2!

[psergiu]

Mod parent +1 Funny :)

Anything EXCEPT testing

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya. I hear Microsoft is using it to generate more FUD. I'm sure they are using it for anything EXCEPT testing, because if they did, they might find that it actually works better than their own product.

Re:Lame - as in, the original poster of this whine

[Slartibartfast]

Maybe *you* don't consider the single most successful open source software releasing a new microrev to be news, but... it is. Maybe when it's a bit down the pipe, nobody'll care all that much, but Lord knows, I'm interested. And not to compile, either: 2.5.x is *w-a-y* too unstable for any except thems that want to watch machines crash-n-burn, but it's the first true development kernel we've had in ages, and (IMH, somewhat nerdy, opinion) exciting to see what goes in. *blam* Block devices broken... but only to fix 'em even better with nifty abstraction layers. *blam* CML (well, not yet, but *some day). *blam* You get the idea. Don't care? THEN DON'T READ IT. Sheesh.

Doesn't mention it, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is absent from the ChangeLog but 2.5.3 contains Robert Love's (yes, the preemptive guy) BKL removal from llseek. It's a scalability fix - we have an 8-way machine at work and it has increased our data system throughput by nearly 15%! We must lseek too much heh but it works eh.

I have some friend's and they say 2.5.3 has much reduced latency with preemptive kernel, since removing the BKL would allow more preemption.

Don't know why it is not in the ChangeLog, but it is a good thing. Love should do one for 2.4 too.

ben

Re:probably will be slashdotted - here's the chang

[Com2Kid]

"--
Ask me about Loom(tm)"

Loom was a great game my Lucas Arts I do believe. I may have a copy of it sitting around here someplace. It was a fantasy adventure game that was based upon a magical system that used musical notes.

The game was quite short, under a day to complete, but even in 1994 or so (long after its release) it was still capible of astrounding people with how nice it looked and how great it sounded. This is despite using only (as I recall. . .) MIDI sound. Ultimately Loom was more a work of art then it was a game, but it was one great work of art.

Re:Lame - as in, the original poster of this whine

[susano_otter]

You know, I fired off my original post to parody the kind of whining that so often occurs when the news isn't about Linux. After hitting the submit button however, I realized that such whining was already in full effect for this news item. I despaired of having any success at all with my little joke. And, juding from the response I've received so far, I was right to despair. At least I can draw some consolation from my small success as a troll. HTH. HAND.

The requisite...

[funkhauser]

Ooh, aah. :)

Re:Is it safe?

[Anonymous Coward]

i think this was a test to find out how hostile really slashdotters are

The 2.0.xx kernel

[deadgoon42]

I noticed on kernel.org that there are now listings for the 2.0.xx kernels (sorry if I'm behind the times, I don't check the site every day). Is anyone out there still using the 2.0.xx kernel (or earlier version)? If so, what are the reasons? Maybe a little off topic, but I think it would be interesting to see what's going on with older Linux versions and how they are being used.

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[BJH]

Some people must be, or otherwise there would be no bug reports submitted ;)

I used to run an old fileserver on 2.0.xx at work, until the HD crashed a couple of months ago... in some cases, it's just not worth upgrading everything that you need to compile newer kernels (the box was running on TurboLinux 1.1 (*blech*) upgraded to 1.4, a libc5 distro released around 1998).

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[slashdot2.2sucks]

2.0.XX is stuper stable
2.2.XX is BSD stable stable
2.4.XX is hardened WinNT stable
2.5.XX is Win95A stable

but seriously all applicable bug patches get backported and no new features are added so old stable releases are the really stable releases.

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[slashdot_commentator]

I know they're being used for resource tight kernel apps (like tomsbrt), but other than that, I'm drawing a blank.

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I am still running a system with currently 2.0.39 and to be honest I do not see any reason to upgrade. All the system's hardware is supported by this kernel version and it runs and runs since years.

So, why should I spent my time for upgrading a system if it runs as it should since years?

I think many people just upgrade for the upgrade. They seem to like installing software. Some people seem to own a computer just to be able to make upgrades and they don't really use the computer for others than upgrading and gaming.

I am certainly not of this type. I installed that box around 1997/1998 (can't remember exactly) and since then it is just running, running, running (24x7x365). Sure I made security updates and also upgraded kernel to the latest 2.0.39 as there were serious bugs in older versions. But for sure I will not consider upgrading this to a newer kernel series.

On the other side I was really tempted recently to upgrade because I'd like to use LVM with journaling filesystem. But everytime I think I do the upgrade now, I change my mind when I start planning the upgrade and the TODO list is getting longer and longer.

So, that is why this system is still running with 2.0.39.

bye
as

PS: Sure, on other (newer) machines (i.e. desktop/laptop) I run newer kernel versions like 2.4.17

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[kievit]

I am using kernel 2.0.35 on my machine at work, it's SuSE 5.3 I think. For our research we wrote a whole bunch of analysis programs and scripts that work fine with the setup we have (with this SuSE machine and some similarly configured machines).

At the moment I am writing my thesis so all I need is vim, latex and xfig; occasionally I rerun parts of the analysis, to regenerate plots for instance. There just isn't any reason to upgrade; only security-related things like ssh are upgraded. I upgraded my home machine, out of curiosity and to try out the new programs. I did not find anything that I really want in my daily work but couldn't simply compile on this machine. Well, occasionally, but then I just login to one of the newer machines around.

As a matter of fact, I have worked with this machine for many years now and I know all its quirks and powers. By the sound of the hard drive I know what it is doing, so to speak. As a kid I read a few Western books by Karl May, where one of heroes (I think his name was Sam) carried around a very old battered gun, kept together with the 19th century equivalent of duct tape, probably; and yet this gun was a very dangerous weapon in his hands and not for all gold in the world would he ever dump this gun in favour of some shiny but anonymous newer one. I feel similarly about my friend, my old 350Mhz pc with its ancient kernel.
Well, it's only four years old. C'mon.

I suppose that there are many more and better examples of much older equipment and software which still serve solidly and happily as reliable tools. Just because they have all functionality that's needed, no additional unneeded BS features and working just fine.

My thesis will be finished very soon. I will have to say goodbye to my dear machine. It will be hard time.

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[egreB]

Last time I checked (wich is a couple of weeks ago), tomsrtbt was on kernel 1.x.. And it works like a dream on laptops.

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[wings]

I'm running 2.0.39 on a 486-100 w/16MB RAM. It is running headless as a NAT/Firewall. I've secured and tested the system. It just runs. I don't have to do anything to it except check the logs, and keep up with security patches. Since there aren't a lot of those for the few services I run, it doesn't require much maintainence.

The system normally experiences 150+ day uptimes, limited by the battery capacity of the UPS, hardware maintainance, or a kernel upgrade. The current uptime is 45 days. I had to oil an irritatingly noisy fan.:p The previous downtime was due to a failed underground power cable in the neighborhood. I had no power for about 6 hours.

The installation has outlasted the previous motherboard (a 386SX-16), and the original 120MB
disk drive (I wanted more proxy cache space :) ).

When it fails, I _might_ consider upgrading to the 2.2.x series. It doesn't provide any additional _must have_ features for my needs.

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel

[Cro Magnon]

Doesn't Debian still use 2.0.xx? :)

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Jews or Kernels?

What I'd like to see in "New Kernel" announcements

[IvyMike]

Yeah, I know, everybody and their mother whines about, "Why does slashdot post new kernel announcements, wah, wah wah!" And I'm going to do the same, but hopefully I'm a litte more constructive.

What I'd like to see in these announcements is a description of what's changed. Not the changelists; I want the executive summary. Something like "New kernel 2.5.3 released; includes fixes for the FCI bus problems of 2.5.2, as well as the new virtual monitor support!" That would be immensely useful to those of us who don't want to install every kernel and keep track of every new feature, but do like to stay aware of the bigger trends.

P.S. There is no such thing as the FCI bus or virtual monitor support, as far as I know, it was just an example. But if you're smart enough to come up with the executive summary for this release, please, post it. This time and every time.

actually interesting

[BlueboyX]

Mostly interfaces in movie computers trade functionality and/or efficiency for neat effects, along with some outright impossible stuff(like downloading a significant animation to a diskette).

But the various graphical interfaces for linux are supposedly very customizable. What would it take to do things like put high-tech movie looking windows on your desktop? I imagine that there is a way to apply skins to the windows (heck, even Win9X can do that with the right program, but it still has to have the same basic window layout).

So how hard would it be to make a linux box have really funky skinned windows with a tech-looking background? I vaguely remember reading about a program that made your windows transparent by using one of the newer gfx cards.

To take it a step further, it would be cool to have custom transitions. For example, instead of a window simply dissappearing when you close it, it vertically shrinks, then horizontally shrinks, then dissappears. When you open a new window the reverse happens. This effect is used alot in tv-land computers, and can look pretty cool.

Obviously, none of these features are actually useful (except maybe transparent windows) but it would certainly impress people.

Re:actually interesting

[SweetAndSourJesus]

It's called Aqua. Transparency, zoomy windows. We got it.

Re:actually interesting

[marcs]

>So how hard would it be to make a linux box
>have really funky skinned windows with a >tech-looking background? I vaguely remember
I've seen some very funky stuff at themes.org.
Some of that would get close to the MovieOS.

Most of it would make sure I never get any
work done. I keep telling myself to download
some themes and create a user to play around
with them. Maybe someday...

Marc

Re:actually interesting

[darkmoon]

It's called slow. I got to play with it for a while at a desktop publishing expo. I prefer my desktop environment with a bit of speed and responsiveness.

Re:Is it safe?

[glwtta]

damn, you did NOT just answer that seriously!!!

New kernel? Time to whore.

[dimator]

Let's run down the list. I'll combine my whoring into one succinct post:

• Please, people, use the mirrors! It's only polite, don't /. the main server! (+5 Informative)
  
• Please, people, download patches to save bandwidth! I'm so smart and cool! (+5 Informative)
  
• Please, people, don't use developmental kernels in production environments. These are only for testing! (+5 Interesting)
  
• Since when is /. about software updates? That's what freshmeat is for! I hate slashdot! (+5 Insightful)
  
• You assholes that complain about software update stories on /. piss me off. DON'T CLICK ON THE FUCKING LINK, AND DON'T POST TO THE DISCUSSION! (+5 Insightful)
  

Did I miss anything?

Re:New kernel? Time to whore.

[glwtta]

Hey cool, I get quoted now. I don't care what you say, all caps DOES make a difference!

Re:New kernel? Time to whore.

[SweetAndSourJesus]

Yes, no M$ bashing. Be sure to spell it like that, too, because that joke never gets old.

• this is so going to blow away whatever m$ is doing
• micro$oft suxors!

Re:New kernel? Time to whore.

[subbuk]

> Did I miss anything? Umm.. How about : Dumb list summarising all possible respon.. Oh wait, forget it..

Re:New kernel? Time to whore.

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot one.

• Post a comment lampooning the moderation system, providing parody examples of other comments. (+5 Funny)
  

Re:New kernel? Time to whore.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you did miss something:

* Posts which point out how predictable every other /. post is, giving a list of standard replies to standard stories.

:-)

Seriously, though.
It wouldn't be all that hard to write something that generated /. comments based on the story title.

It'd be at least 90% accurate.

Re:New kernel? Time to whore.

[arestivo]

Missed one:

• Let's run down the list. I'll combine my whoring into one succinct post: (+5 Funny)

New people SHOULD NOT be using 2.5.

[Wakko Warner]

The Drill is pretty well-documented all over the place, including in the kernel source documentation. Don't encourage linux newbies to use experimental kernels.

- A.P.

Re:What I'd like to see in "New Kernel" announceme

[glwtta]

see that's what the discussion is for! that's why you go and read what people who know what they are talking about have to say about the new kernel, without actually having to install it (ok, most of them don't either, and don't know what they are talking about, but you get the idea); of course most of that is buried under whining, and whining about whining (I do that), and whining about whining about whining (that's starting to be a new thing apparently), but that's why we have this great moderation system - it all makes sense in the end, really!

I really doubt that one person could compress all the relevant information about a new patch release into one paragraph, especially immediately after the announcement and if that person does other things too; besides you'd only get what JonKatz (for example) thinks of the new kernel release then, which may not always be as informative as you think.

Who the hell cares?

[Pope Slackman]

Why is a dev kernel revision being put on the front page?
No "real" news to report?

C-X C-S

Re:Who the hell cares?

[glwtta]

Now that's just funny.

Re:Well, my opinion on the latest kernel is...

[SweetAndSourJesus]

You're goddamned right. Scoop and FreeBSD don't seem as prone to self destruction as Slash and Linux.

so tite

[Anonymous Coward]

It's so COOL to see how often this bad boy gets updated - windows users, you can'tfuken hang with linux for this sole reason; all the big problems get fixed within weeks... boo-yah!

Re:Is it safe?

[Anonymous Coward]

For proper trolling, you really shouldn't refer to the common lore of "Slashdotters are mean to non-Linux-freaks". 'Cause a real Windows user wouldn't know that, see?

Usability.

[saintlupus]

Anyone using 2.5 for anything except testing?

Yeah, it's on all my production machines. I've got millions of dollars riding on it.

Of course not, you jackass. I know this is Slashdot, where untested hardware, piss poor drivers written in a drunken fury, and bleeding edge technology with no perceivable benefit are kewl, but I don't think even the sweaty fanboys in this place are dumb enough to put a 2.5.x kernel on anything important.

--saint

Re:Usability.

[saintlupus]

Oh, and to the gibbering fucksticks with the mod points - it's generally considered "Flamebait" when I call into question the ideals of the Great Slashdot Hivemind, not a "Troll." Thanks.

--saint

Re:so tite (so very tite)

[SweetAndSourJesus]

you forgot "in yo face!"

now lets all down to fry's and hoot at the people buying windows machines.

boo yah!

It's quite ironic

[drik00]

It's odd how everyone bitches because /. covers Linux kernel releases, even if they are beta, but when was the last time a Microsoft, Apple, or BSD-type OS was released that didnt grace the pages of /.??

i think people just like to bitch.

Re:It's quite ironic

[damiam]

So we have to have it on the /. front page when MS releases XP Service Pack 3.14159?

WELCOME TO SLASHMEAT

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to Slashmeat.net :P

Using it?

[Penguinoflight]

I haven't been following the 2.5 releases, but back when 2.4.0-test1 came out, it was rock solid. I was impressed. I wouldn't be surprised if some people used 2.5 for something important, they use windows every day.

Re:Anal Cox!

[Shulai]

Well, do you prefer a good looking boy? I guess there is a smart one in the zone of Seattle...

moderators shmoderators

[Penrod Pooch]

Shouldn't moderators actually click the link before they give an informative mod?

Re:moderators shmoderators

[Anonymous Coward]

that's because YAAD is correct, and you're wrong. YAAD should be at +5 IMHO.

MODERATORS!

[Anonymous Coward]

check the links before you moderate!

http://patches.org gives us:
Looking for software patches?
You are in the wrong place!
Looking for softwear patches?
You are in the right place!

You have found Patches' Place -- a fun place to find adult watersports entertainment!

I hope I make myself clear...

Kernel released? Who cares!

[Anonymous Coward]

Each and everyone one of you who posted to this article is a fucking loser!

MCSEs own you all! Windows .NET is the future, not your ghetto bullshit toy OS "linux."

You know that hot chick you saw the last time you went to the mall? I fucked her! And guess what? After I was done with her I fucked you daughter!

Booooooya! Hail emperor Gates!

So what!??!

[SquierStrat]

Yo, 2.5.3, anyone who needs it is tracking it's development, and it's not exactly a major release at this point.

Now when we get a decently working VM into the kernel and settle on it, then we can all jumpf or joy! :-) Or announce it when they announce alsa is gonna be in the kernel.

Is it just because its Linux?

[cybercyst]

Do you only complain about Linux kernel releases? I dont hear half the complains when we hear Windows 2050 is in alpha. Now beta... Its gold... Its in stores now! I mean common, if you are going to complain about Operating System releases then you have to complain when we hear about the new OSX or whatnot. Just because Linux is probably more actively developed than any of those I previously mentioned doesn't mean that it shouldn't be reported on.

--cybercyst

Re:Is it just because its Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Do you only complain about Linux kernel releases? I dont hear half the complains when we hear Windows 2050 is in alpha. Now beta... Its gold... Its in stores now! I mean common, if you are going to complain about Operating System releases then you have to complain when we hear about the new OSX or whatnot. Just because Linux is probably more actively developed than any of those I previously mentioned doesn't mean that it shouldn't be reported on."

Hmm a quick look at the posts regarding Windows and OSX show us somthing very different.

With Windows patches we have stories that focus on MS having egg on their face OR some big editor precieved change (eg. major release) that may/will hurt the rights of users. The majority of service packs are not really mentioned in slash stories.

With OSX we have a few posts about it coming out, Apple UI legal lameness and a funky intaller that wipes hard drives but is fixed.

With BSD we have major releases and the odd metion as an idiot forks a BSD over his firewall.

Linux gets a lot of not heavily editorialized comments that announce frequent minor revisions that sometimes later come back up like rotten turkey. Then we get major distro (often editorialized) announcements but not the little guys like Sorcerer (http://www.distrowatch.com/review-sorcerer.php) which I think with a much improved and sped up gcc could give Debian a real run for it's money. And lets not forget the pie in the sky I have a solution to make Linux better posts some of which I hope will come to fruition.

To say the reason for such is that Linux "more actively developed" is a farce. It is bias plain and simple. Don't believe me go look at the number of MS stories Timothy has posted.

The readers make this site what it is for the vast majority of the content. If enough of them go because they don't like the bias of the editors then that's the way it goes.

Personally I don't expect drones or great grammar or even origional content. I just want a tad more then /. is producing now and maybe a look back at what slashdot was back when this was just a little site that became a thesis project.

pingmeep

Hitting Servers? A warning from Monty Python

[WIAKywbfatw]

"Lets go hit those servers!"

Hitting a server is not a good idea. Hit them too hard and you will break something important and the server will cease to function properly.

The once lively server will be dead. It won't be resting, it'll be stone dead. It'll have passed on. It'll be no more. It will cease to be!

It'll have expired and gone to meet its maker. It'll be a stiff. Bereft of life, it'll rest in peace. If it wasn't for the fact that it had been mounted to a rack it'll be pushing up the daisies!

Its processing cycles will be history. It'll be off the twig. It will have kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!

IT WILL BE AN EX-SERVER!

Oh yeah, the sysadmin will be pissed at you too.

Re:Hitting Servers? A warning from Monty Python

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus Christ, you're never going to get laid.

Re:I agree

[Anonymous Coward]

I used Linux for years but seriously, if I want to know what happens in the development kernel I follow it.

Just announce the stable releases.

maybe...

[dr4ma]

maybe Linus and Alan & friends need to stroll through any of the BSD's VM code and learn like microsoft did, it takesyears to create a good VM system, BSD has been their and back, its solid as a fsckin rock, why do you think yahoo! and hotmail run FreeBSD? because its more developed and stable you idiots.

Re:so tite (so very tite)

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is mad phat computing... TO THE EXTREME!!!!

Re:Hey Taco, ban these moderators!

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that what metamod is for? If they're smart, they'll post a comment to undo their moderation and be allowed to get mod points again in the future. (unless metamod applies to un-done mods? that would be cool)

Re:Is it safe?

[npietraniec]

Yes

What's being added to the 2.5 kernel?

[evilpaul13]

I read the change log, but it is mostly full of filesystem fixes and SCSI stuff I don't own and couldn't afford. Anyone have a hyperlink to an answer to the question "what Linus wants added in the 2.5 tree"?

Re:What's being added to the 2.5 kernel?

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to start celebrating fucking Black History month, fucking nigger-lover.

XFS in 2.5

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an interesting run down of the work on 2.5 at Kernel Traffic. JFS is apparently going to be included, but I haven't seen much about XFS. I was looking forward to huge file capability (>2G). Anyone know?

ROTFL

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, this "community" must be really awesome to fix stuff so quickly. Too bad their ranks are filled with arrogant nerds who are way over their heads with grand delusions of power.

Re:Well, my opinion on the latest kernel is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mister AC & SweetAndSourJesus, I love you both. Really, we're probably like Musketeers or triplets or some such shit. I'd love to See a FreeBSD/Scoop site side-by-side compared to any shit-pit running Linux/Slash.

It's like...

[mlylecarlin]

Watching the Kernel develop is like watching DBZ, except in DBZ the powerups are faster and there's less time between episodes.

I'm using 4.5 !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent preformance, they really did a nice job on this stable VM! Get it at
http://www.FreeBSDmirrors.org

Re:I'm using 4.5 !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides the fact that the X-Windows won't even INSTALL correctly, at least for your average Joe-Blow. I'll stick to Win2K.

the answer is simple

[EvilStein]

The guy with the 5624 day uptime that just will NOT reboot for ANY kernel upgrade, damn it! :P

either that, or people are just too lazy to bother with it. :-)

Re:the answer is simple

[Anonymous Coward]

5624 days is 15 years and then some. Someone with a time machine must've took 2.0.38 back to 1986. :)

Re:the answer is simple

[EvilStein]

Yeah, I know.. that just happened to be the number that came out as I bashed my head on the keypad. ;)

Here's one for ya.

[Anonymous Coward]

I see no updates that improve upon anything that I am using to a level that outweighs the risk or time spent configuring and compiling.

So, I will sit this one out.

Should I try it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using FreeBSD for quite a while now, but everybody's been talking about Linux. I'm thinking of switching. Is it harder to install? What hardware does it support? I heard apt-get rocks, but when I talked to a Redhat guy he didn't know anything about it.

I've got a 50Meg partition unused. Will that be enough?

I'll wait for 2.4.18 thank you

[Prolixium]

from what I've heard of the 2.5.x series, it's not worth testing yet. Anyone know when 2.4.18 is going to drop? Judging by the last 2.4.x buggy releases, there's no way I'll use test kernels any time soon...

Re:I'll wait for 2.4.18 thank you

[TeknoHog]

Judging by the last 2.4.x buggy releases, there's no way I'll use test kernels any time soon...

Why, then, would you want to use a 2.4.x? ;-)

Mission Critical Database and Web Application....

[Anonymous Coward]

million dollars of transactions a day.
Why is there a problem?

compile problems - malloc.h

[elliott666]

if you get the following errors compiling the kernel (as i did),

....
gcc -D__KERNEL__ -I/usr/src/linux-2.5.3/include -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-trigraphs -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -pipe -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -march=i686 -malign-functions=4 -DEXPORT_SYMTAB -c core.c
core.c:10: linux/malloc.h: No such file or directory
....

copy a malloc.h file from an older kernel to the include/linux directory. I copied the one from linux-2.4.17 and it compiled fine.

LMAO

[Anonymous Coward]

I may be running Win2k, but my box is stable, and I don't have to put up with crap like this.

Re:LMAO

[DaCool42]

Darn right AC! When using windows you don't have to put up with the hassel of continual improvements and updates that add funcionality and make the system run faster and more stable.

Re:LMAO

[Anonymous Coward]

Because, when using Windows, you're light years ahead in functionality, speed and stability.

(posting anonymously, precious karma, etc)

Re:LMAO

[Anonymous Coward]

"you're light years ahead in functionality"
Damn right!

Re:Is it safe?

[Cowculator]

You can't - Linux is just a kernel. It's Emacs that can be configured to be an OS...

i810_audio fixes?

[XRayX]

Have they finally fixed the i810_audi drivers to make them work with the 44.100hz playback rate?

Looks like I'm going to have my first time unstable ;)

X

Re:i810_audio fixes?

[mrfiddlehead]

I've got a crappy^H^H^H^H^Hlittle asus motherboard at work that's hobbled with one of these horrible i810 chipsets (i815 actually), anyway, the sound has been working on 2.4 for some time now.

Re:i810_audio fixes?

[^me^]

The -mjc branch has included this in -mjc3 and will include it in the soon-to-be-released 2.4.18-pre8-mjc if you don't really need the radical changes in 2.5.x.

I try to include as many hardware fixes as I can so that it is easier for users with said hardware. It's possible that I might start offering separate XFS patches (thanks to Shawn Starr) and powerpc patches (mvista, benh, and friends) that apply on top of -mjc.

------
Michael Cohen

Re:Is it safe?

[gonerill]

Kernel 2.5.3 hook...

> Is it safe?

...cues Douglas Adams punchline:

"Oh yes, it's perfectly safe -- It's just us who are in trouble."

Re:Is it safe?

[chaovsky]

Although this seems quite a tongue-in-cheek parent post, your answer is an example of what I think should be an answer to a newbie: informative, not hostile, stimulating for people to find their own way and learn to do some research (instead of asking "the experts" about anything). And not condescending at all. Great! :) Now, if only all the community had the same attitude... (now I get the stick on the head)

Re:New Poll! (Patches buffer Overflow)

[Anonymous Coward]

Latest kernel patch under the "Kernel hacking" section: Magic Flush Key.

CONFIG_MAGIC_FLUSH:
If you say Y here, you will have total control over incoming patches to the kernel. Activate the FLUSH key by holding ATL-CTRL-META-SHIFT-SYSRQ-SCREW_LOCK-BREAK at the same time. Look for documentation under the Documentation/patch_control.txt.

Unless you are Linus Torvald, everybody say N to this option.

Yes you did.

[Compact Dick]

• Oh shit! I just downloaded the 2.5.3 sources on my 9600bps fax machine. Back to it again... *sigh* (+5, Funny)

Doh!

[Compact Dick]

I shouldn't have let out the fact that unbeknownst to all but me, 2.5.4 is waiting in the wings, ready to send you all into raging fits.

who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

subject says it all.

"With Linus out of the way, I can put a good VM in place."
--RVR

rmap VM: about bloody time, OOM: booo

[CaptnMArk]

Hmm, yes. Does the FreeBSD have a non-overcommit option?

I might switch if it does.... I'd certainly try it.

Re:What I'd like to see in "New Kernel" announceme

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh shut up you RTFCL (read the fucking changlog) elitist wanker.

Requesting a changelog summary in the news headline is a nobrainer idea. Only a linux zealot would advocate making things harder than have to be.

Re:What I'd like to see in "New Kernel" announceme

[jsoderba]

Have you tried reading the Linux Weekly News kernel update? Reading that every week keeps me quite well informed. For instance, this week's (or next week's, depending on how you look at it) kernel page reads

The current development kernel release is 2.5.3, which was released on January 30 (changelog). The biggest change in the more recent prepatches has been the split of the massive (> 1MB) Configure.help file into multiple, smaller files spread out over the source tree. This change will make those files easier to maintain (it is hoped); in the mean time, however, it has broken a number of the configuration tools. Other changes include a large ReiserFS update and the inclusion of Nathan Scott's extended attribute patch, which paves the way for access control lists and other useful stuff in the future.

And it goes on into more detail after that. The previous issue talked about the new ATA drivers.

(I'm not affiliated with LWN. I just like the service.)

Damn. Correction

[jsoderba]

Arrgh. Always preview. Here we go again:

Have you tried reading the Linux Weekly News kernel page? Reading that every week keeps me quite well informed. For instance, this week's (or next week's, depending on how you look at it) kernel page reads

The current development kernel release is 2.5.3, which was released on January 30 (changelog). The biggest change in the more recent prepatches has been the split of the massive (> 1MB) Configure.help file into multiple, smaller files spread out over the source tree. This change will make those files easier to maintain (it is hoped); in the mean time, however, it has broken a number of the configuration tools. Other changes include a large ReiserFS update and the inclusion of Nathan Scott's extended attribute patch, which paves the way for access control lists and other useful stuff in the future.

And it goes on into more detail after that. The previous issue talked about the new ATA drivers.

(I'm not affiliated with LWN. I just like the service.)

Re:What I'd like to see in "New Kernel" announceme

[mathi]

A good pace to find this information is Kernel Traffic. It's like a summary of the mailing list.

You kinda forgot...

[roie_m]

• First post (-1, Off-topic)

2.2

[pkplex]

IMO, 2.2 is the latest stable kernel. If I understand correctly, Kernels in major development or state of instability have odd minor version numbers, eg, 2.1, 2.3, 2.5... How come 2.4 is not currently 2.3 ? And what is to be expected of 2.6 ? I hope quality improves otherwise linux will be lapped by unconfigureable traction engine's. I hope the drivers in teams 2.4 and above, pull into the pits, fix all problems, and take it slowly. Otherwise the kernel might crash and may not finish the race :) 2.2 races quite nicely, in a 386 with only 40 Horse Power ;)

Re:2.2

[pkplex]

In addition to pulling into the pits, fixing problems, and driving slowly... It would be far more effective if team members stopped crashing into each other :) And if team member A wants to overtake team member B because driver A is driving faster and better, then drive B should pull over and let driver A pass :) This way the team could score more points and perhaps driver A could set some lap records ;)

Are you kidding?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait until the 2.5.3.1 kernel is done!

What a great, informative & insightful article that will be! I will hit the "refresh" button all day in anticipation!

Re:The 2.0.xx kernel Great on a small box

[dancomfort]

I'm running 2.0.38 on a P100 with 16 megs of memory I use as a network monitor. It runs scripts that ping problem devices ever few second and also captures and processes the logs from my cisco routers every couple of hours. (I'm using access-list logging to capture some usage patterns).

I also copy my router configurations to this box using rcp, and the ability to edit the password file directly on 2.0 makes this a little easier.

The box has been up 371 days, and that outage was because I had to move it.

Why not let a script check?

[Kjella]

Just have kernel.org connect to the mirror, see if the filesize matches (assuming we know more or less where to find it, even searching through the kernel directory tree would probably be worth it) and if it does, the mirror is updated and you can add it to the list of mirrors you can redirect to. The bandwidth of listing a couple files should be well spent compared to having lots more downloading directly from kernel.org

Kjella

Re:Why not let a script check?

[mrmag00]

if you are using rotating dns, there would be no way to update it fast enough. not sure of other load balancing methods that would work.

also my instinct says that comparing file sizes + file existant = security problem, although not that big. sombody /could/ replace it if a mirror ever got hacked (im sure they have no way of managing the security on every one of the mirrors.) this all makes me more likely to download from the official mirror, no problems there (yet, hah).

Does it boot under VMware?

[CTho9305]

I have been unable to get 2.5.2 to boot in VMware.... the buslogic scsi driver doesn't seem to load/initialize, regardless of whether it is compiled in or as a module. I've set it up almost identically to 2.4.17, which works fine. Any ideas?

back here in reality... ?

[DuckDodgers]

I know that one example does not constitute proof, but where I work our only Unix crash since I started was due to a faulty power supply. Our Win2K boxes, which are all faithfully patched, rarely last a month between reboots. A few crash and burn several times a week.

Crashing once or twice a month, or even once a week, isn't too damaging to productivity. But it is still frustrating as hell, especially when you're occasionally forced to reinstall the program you were running when it died.

Re:back here in reality... ?

[ryusen]

my win2k box needs to be rebooted like once a week to once every other week... it really doesn't matter what the cause is.. if it is bad drivers then ms and the hardware vendors need to get together and fix it, because linux drivers don't ever seem to be that bad (just hard to find and sometimes less features)

Re:Is it safe?

[ArsonSmith]

>damn, you did NOT just answer that seriously!!!

Why yes, Yes I did.

Is there a problem with that?

Re:Is it safe?

[ArsonSmith]

> Although this seems quite a tongue-in-cheek parent post,

Yes I realize that.

> your answer is an example of what I think should be an answer to a newbie:

Thank you I tried

>informative, not hostile, stimulating for people to find their own way and learn to do some research (instead of asking "the experts" about anything).

I just wanted to portray that when asking a newbie question on the linux kernel mailing list is not the right place.

> And not condescending at all. Great!

It is sometimes hard to not be condescending when someone asks you something that you feel is or should be common sense. Of course few things in life are really common sense.

> :) Now, if only all the community had the same attitude...

If we all work together and start a trend of being nice. it just may work out

Re:Is it safe?

[ArsonSmith]

>YHBT YHL HAND oh, and also, YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON

This is always a possibility. I will look into it and see.

Re:Is it safe?

[ArsonSmith]

>Hahahaha, nice twist on a classic response. Mod parent up: +1, Funny.

Yes it was. Somewhat insulting to me but you know. Why should I care what a flammer thinks of me. I will just have to continue to post nice and informative articles.

Thank you.

2.5 on Dell Laptop

[yonnage]

I had 2.5.1 on my Dell Inspiron 4000 laptop. It would hang every time I tried to shutdown. Recompiled a few times, but always ended up with the same problem. I ended up going back to 2.4.17, and that works fine. Anyone else have a problem like that? I'll have to try 2.5.3 to see if Im still having the same issue.

Anybody plan to document it?

[be-fan]

It really annoys me that you can't count on the Linux developers to write good documentation. When Matt Dillon made his changes to FreeBSD's VM, he wrote up a bunch of documentation explaining it. When Andrea Archangeli did his changes to the Linux VM, he didn't officially document them at all. Now, we have this crazy new bio (block-I/O) layer that's supposed to be all super-cool, but there are no docs explaining how its works!

2.5.3 seroiuosly flawed

[Anonymous Coward]

it turns out it's flawed because it would compile with errors(im using mandrake 8.1 for x86)and it reports no such file or directory ,yep it was looking for zutil.h and failed to compile zlib_deflate
this did happen same thing on 2 diffrent pc one is an althon and other is a g4 powerpc(linuxppc)
why can't they double check their tree and compile worthy before releasing it!

Re:2.5.3 seroiuosly flawed

[Anonymous Coward]

problem soloved! just copy the 2 files from kernel dir tree /usr/src/linux-2.5.3/linux to /usr/src/linux-2.5.3/include/linux and it worked like a charm ,i compiled it and booted it on althon perfectly only one problem with just one module is video1394 compile fail
:)

Re:Anal Cox!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I prefer good-looking, smooth little boys. I prefer to chain 'em up in my basement and give 'me a good ass-fucking.

--
Pedophile Programmer

Last Post

[tophernet]

Last P0st!