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Moore made ONE claim: Trump would win the election. quote: I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I gave it to you straight last summer when I told you that Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee for president. And now I have even more awful, depressing news for you: Donald J. Trump is going to win in November. This wretched, ignorant, dangerous part-time clown and full time sociopath is going to be our next president. President Trump. Go ahead and say the words, ‘cause you’ll be saying them for the next four years: “PRESIDENT TRUMP. link: https://michaelmoore.com/trump...

Full Stop. This was not "Trump Winning" or "Russia Hacking" it was the DNC being so completely out of touch with parts of the country they knew they would win than they still don't accept that they lost there. Michael Moore nailed it in 5 Reasons Trump Will Win.

The whole election loss can come down to a few swing states. A few extra thousand voters one way or another in a state that is solid Red or Blue isn't what got Trump elected. (Just like Clinton getting massive numbers in California didn't win her the election, that's not how the rules were set before the game)

I'll just point out the 2 states I'm most familiar with, Wisconsin and Michigan. Not coincidentally both of those states they had completely wrong in the Primary as well. Both states were "Sure" Clinton states and Sanders proved them wrong. Clinton didn't visit Wisconsin once for the general election. She sent a bunch of proxies. She did hit Michigan late but more or less completely ignored it prior to their number crunchers going "eh maybe we're wrong". The Russians didn't tell her not to go to Wisconsin. The Russians didn't push Sanders over the top in the Primaries. The Russians didn't collude to keep Sanders out of the nomination. [And even IF they did, I don't think 'Those guys did something illegal to illustrate something I was doing illegal" is a justifiable defense in court]

Stein and Johnson ran in both 2012 and 2016 so you can use them as a 'control' between the candidates. Personally Michigan's Green bump in 2012 and the corresponding Democrat drop should have been an indication 4 years ago that something was up.

Wisconsin's numbers:

Republican Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 1262393
• 2012 - 1407966
• 2016 - 1405284

Democratic Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 1677211
• 2012 - 1620985
• 2016 - 1382536

Libertarian Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 8858
• 2012 - 20439
• 2016 - 106674

Green Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 4216
• 2012 - 7665
• 2016 - 31072

Michigan's numbers look similar.

Republican Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 2048639
• 2012 - 2115256
• 2016 - 2279543

Democratic Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 2872579
• 2012 - 2564569
• 2016 - 2268839

Libertarian Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 23716
• 2012 - 7774
• 2016 - 172136

Green Presidential votes:

• 2008 - 8892
• 2012 - 21897
• 2016 - 51463

The thing that Trump did was convince them to even go out and vote.

Trump got the angry young fired up youth behind him (much as Bernie had) and those people influenced all of their family. There were a lot of "I talked my mom into voting this election, never voted before!" posts in Trump forums/chats. Similar to the Sanders primary. One or two enthusiastic teens can potentially influence quite a few people by time you add up parents, friends, etc.

When the DNC picked Clinton they shot that demographic in the foot and walked away. Other than some Stein/Johnson chatter most of my Sanders friends (and sanders Forums) all just went silent. Those that did go out and vote were the Depressed Voter. A lot of people just turned away from politics back to what ever position it was in before.

*

Perhaps some budding Michael Moore might want to contrast the technology available to the President's kids at the $35,288-a-year Sidwell Friends School ("The number one blessing for this [iMovie] project was the delivery of noise-cancelling headphones for each child") to the tech available at rural Appalachia schools (avg. family income $40,000). Sidwell Friends is also living-the-cyberlife as a charter member of the elite Global Online Academy, which boasts that "classmates in Washington, D.C. $35,288, and San Francisco $38,900 work on projects with peers in Madaba-Manja, Jordan $38,272, and Portland, Oregon $25,850. Students in Hawaii $19,950 (President Obama's alma mater) and Chicago $29,985 discuss global health issues with students in New York $40,220, Seattle $28,500 (Bill Gates' alma mater), Boston $46,700, and Jakarta, Indonesia $30,200."

And what would the message of this movie be? "America has expensive but fancy private schools"? I think we already knew that. Yeah, if you're willing to shell out some coin, you can indeed buy a great education for your kid. So what? With more money you can also buy better healthcare, go to better colleges, eat at better restaurants, drive safer cars and live in better houses located in better neighborhoods.

Perhaps some budding Michael Moore might want to contrast the technology available to the President's kids at the $35,288-a-year Sidwell Friends School ("The number one blessing for this [iMovie] project was the delivery of noise-cancelling headphones for each child") to the tech available at rural Appalachia schools (avg. family income $40,000). Sidwell Friends is also living-the-cyberlife as a charter member of the elite Global Online Academy, which boasts that "classmates in Washington, D.C. $35,288, and San Francisco $38,900 work on projects with peers in Madaba-Manja, Jordan $38,272, and Portland, Oregon $25,850. Students in Hawaii $19,950 (President Obama's alma mater) and Chicago $29,985 discuss global health issues with students in New York $40,220, Seattle $28,500 (Bill Gates' alma mater), Boston $46,700, and Jakarta, Indonesia $30,200."

And if his "creative" work involves "creating" facts that are reported on national news as facts, that's okay?

As I said in another response, it depends on the nature of the fabrication. For Mike Daisey to do some research and discover that workers are suffering n-hexane poisoning, then to claim that he met such a worker when he did not, is a lie about his activities but not about a salient fact. It's well within the range of behaviors we rightly expect in a dramatization.

And if Fox News decided to start calling Anne Coulter a "creative activist" - I mean, she writes books, that's creative! - you'd be okay with them reporting, "Anne Coulter says President Obama isn't even an American - he was born in Kenya, and he's a Muslim!" After all, she's creative, and an activist... TRUTH doesn't matter in the news, as long as it's for a "creative" cause, right?

To be honest, yes I would be okay with them reporting that quote—even if they don't call her a "creative activist". The quote doesn't make a claim to veracity, only a claim to repeat what another person said. This example is far from analogous, and no different from when they report what "an official" said—which is to say, it's a terrible substitute for journalism but it's not really that far out.

Here's a better example. Michael Moore has taken a lot of heat over the years for playing loose with the facts. Straight from the horse's mouth (source: http://michaelmoore.com/books-films/facts/bowling-columbine):

"That scene where you got the gun in the bank was staged!"

Well of course it was staged! It's a movie! We built the "bank" as a set and then I hired actors to play the bank tellers and the manager and we got a toy gun from the prop department and then I wrote some really cool dialogue for me and them to say! Pretty neat, huh?

Well gee, whiz! The thing that happened in his movie didn't really happen. Michael Moore is lying! (He goes on to explain that it's true, but I'd be quite fine with it having been staged. Because it's okay to dramatize an issue to make a point about a fact.)

It is the job of journalists to be factual and accurate and illuminating, to the best of their ability. But a creative person's job is different: to be compelling, and hopefully to be illuminating as well. Where Daisey screwed up (and I began my first response with this) was to be misrepresented as more of the former and less of the latter.

What you're calling pedantry is really just people calling you out for the ridiculous logical contortions you're twisting yourself into in order to justify Daisey's lies - presented as fact - "because they're activism for a good cause."

The logic I'm using isn't much of a contortion, it's quite simple. It's unreasonable to expect a dramatization to meet the same standards as journalism. It's not even just unreasonable either, our culture and our awareness would suffer for it. We need people to powerfully engage us on our choices. What we should expect from people like Daisey is that they make us care about the real truths in their stories; we don't need the stories to be accurate, so long as the topical substance is—and in this case it is.

They asked him for the contact info for the translator he used so they could corroborate his stories. He refused to provide that info. If you don't want your stories fact-checked, don't present them to the world as fact.

I agree that Daisey has to answer for misrepresenting his story to This American Life as a kind of journalism. That's why it was the first thing I said.

Michael Moore is an Academy-Award winning filmmaker and best-selling author. His films 'Fahrenheit 9/11,' 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' 'Bowling for Columbine' and 'SiCKO' are among the all-time top ten grossing documentaries.Michael Moore

He thinks they are documentaries, so that's what he putting them forward as.

The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. Taxpayers are expected to pay, but are not allowed to know what the government is doing, or why.

Michael Moore is attempting to counteract that secrecy: Why I'm Posting Bail Money for Julian Assange.

http://michaelmoore.com/

Good thing that its posted AC. It's not an original work. But it has also been passed around a lot, minor refinements made, and without attribution since it was authored. The short essay is apparently originally titled I AM AN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE SHITHEEL

It's at least as old as September 09, 2009.

Found an older reference at reddit around August 08, 2009.

And somebody attributed that likely the original author posted to the Laissez Faire subforum on Something Awful (Jul 24, 2009) as randomnoise. Some attribution also to a 4chan post (but nothing older than SA post was found)

But seems to be more less plagiarized or inspired (depending on your P.O.V.) by a short rant in July 2004. Also found at michaelmoore.com August 2004, by John Gray, Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican. But, I think the original author is generally unknown.

And then there's the Libertarian response in October 2004 to THAT titled Statist Joe by Gil Gullory, a Halliburton employee.

Obviously the pilots should have paid more attention, but I suspect the reason they were trying to squeeze in a little extra work is that they weren't going to get paid to learn the scheduling system on their own time.

Pilots go through years of expensive schooling and have to repay their student loans like everyone else. Their salaries start around $20,000 if they can get hired in a very competitive market.

Remember the hero pilot who landed the plane in the Hudson, saving Flight 1549 and 155 people's lives?

the last talk [Capt. Sullenberger] had with his wife, Lorrie, before the crash... was about money.

Like thousands of airline workers, his salary had been cut in half and he lost most of his pension. At 58, the 29-year veteran faced having to find work outside the industry and possibly having to sell his house.

Many pilots take second jobs. Some are on food stamps:

He took home $405 this week. My life was completely and totally in his hands for the past hour and he's paid less than the kid who delivers my pizza.

I told the guys that I have a whole section in my new movie about how pilots are treated (using pilots as only one example of how people's wages have been slashed and the middle class decimated). In the movie I interview a pilot for a major airline who made $17,000 last year. For four months he was eligible -- and received -- food stamps. Another pilot in the film has a second job as a dog walker.

"I have a second job!," the two pilots said in unison. One is a substitute teacher. The other works in a coffee shop.

Ray Bradbury said all sorts of horrible things about Michael Moore and Fahrenheit 911

Bradbury was right. Look at how completely wrong Micheal Moore was in 2004,
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."

So then we've done the most we can under the law.

Well, the Judiciary will not allow his prosecution, but the Executive not only may, but must treat him with suspicion... Don't be ridiculous — had he done something you actually disapprove of yourself (and escaped prosecution on a technicality), you would've agreed with me.

If somebody walked up to a cop and said: "I think, all cops should be killed," — would you not call the cop an idiot, if he didn't take a goooood look at the guy, jotted down his description, and shared the info with his colleagues? Although Ayers' actual crimes were committed when Obama was 8 years old, his public insistence on regretting only not setting more bombs continues to this day — both law enforcement and the rest of us would, indeed, be idiots, if we didn't carefully watch, what he is doing and whom he is helping to get ahead...

Then, again, looking at the polls today, perhaps, we are, indeed, mostly comprised of idiots...

You can't list drivers licenses as a counterexample, because drivers licenses are about driving cars, not traveling by car.

Yes, I suppose, you can walk too — except, you are still likely to be on a public highway and may be picked up by the Executive government at their whim — whether or not you are on any list. And then, again, you ignored my other example — provision of very basic services (be it plumbing or floating horses' teeth or even use of whois and traceroute ) increasingly requires an Executive Government's license, which can be taken away on a whim and without Judiciary's review.

Yet, somehow, I see neither ACLU nor yourself complaining about these outrages — and I suspect, you actually celebrated (along with most Slashdotters) the one requiring MediaSentry to have a private investigator (!) license to run whois and traceroute...

Then let's say that they placed people on this list any time they saw someone who, say, supported whatever political party they don't like. Even though pulling people over for lengthy traffic stops any time they exceed the speed limit is entirely within their rights, this still counts as persecution.

Well, that depends on what that hypothetical political party is advocating and known for. For example, if repeated trespassing (as was the case with Max Obuszewski and pals) is part of that party's action plan, then suspecting all its members of trespassing is quite reasonable.

Unless I actually said somewhere that I don't have a problem with Osama bin Laden being on the list, do not assume that this is the case.

You just missed a great opportunity to state, for the record, whether or not you actually have a problem with Osama bin Laden being on the list of suspected terrorists... I wonder, why you chose not to state your opinion... Khmm...

So what is told in SiCKO by Michael Moore is full of lies and noone of it true? Even the 9/11 rescuers being denied treatment and having to go, omg, to ~socialist Cuba~ for treatment risking getting in trouble with US laws in exchange of their lives?

I mean look at her statements. I mean for instance when she talks about her son beeing deployed in Iraq. Isn't it frightening to see an aspiring political leader buy into peasants propaganda?

When an elected official's son goes to Iraq, it's "peasant propaganda"? Well, when he doesn't, it's someone else's propaganda. I guess they're screwed either way!

Watch Sicko http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/index.html.

As well as a bill of rights there should be a minimum standard of living, which should be run by the government. The infrastructure should be government own like water, electricity, education, medical, communication.

Rivets. *huge grin* Here, read this: http://www.michaelmoore.com/hamper/excerpt5.html "Punching rivets is..."

That links it to an excerpt from Ben Hamper's book, "Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line." Great, great stuff about working for GM in the 70s and 80s. Blew my mind when my English teacher handed us the excerpt from "Harper's" magazine in, oh, 1987 or so. All those typical books chosen to appeal to teens -- "Catcher in the Rye," et al. -- went out the window. Yay, Mr. Peick & Mr. Syman!

- Will

To Michael Moore's website, http://www.michaelmoore.com./ The more press given to abuse by insurers and health care companies, the less it is going to happen. I consider this outright abuse. This country punishes the sick and injured. No wonder we are ranked 37th in Healthcare in the Industrialized world. I find it sad that the poorest of the Canadians, Britons, and the French are likely to live longer than the poorest Americans. The blame, lack of access to healthcare and greed from the insurance companies. I submitted this link to michael moore's website. I encourage all to do the same. Clarian should not be able to get away with this; especially being a Methodist hospital system. I thought a fundamental tenet of Christianity was forgiveness. Even Jesus Christ himself said the power to heal is greater than to hurt.

The fact that Bush has often misled the american people does not prove that Michael Moore is telling the truth.

Moore is not a liar - he cites all of the statistics that are used in his movies and they have been verified by a non-biased panel. You may not agree with the opinions he presents based on the facts - that is if you've ever watched his movies, but facts are facts. People need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

Fire people who dissagree with you.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2007/04/14/AR2007041401010.html

Enact a law that goes against all the principals of the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

Shoot people with a shot gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney_hunting_i ncident

Help Osama Bin-Ladens Family.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/inde x.php?id=18

Just plain lie
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/18/wood ward.book/ ...

But you have sex with 1 intern and all hell breaks lose!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Lewinsky

As for the speech, here is a comparison someone transcribed from F911 and from Heston's actual speech.

Here is a link to Moore's website where he responds to attacks on his movie. The page is long and there is a lot there, so I'll copy the text where Moore responds to this specific charge. I'm going to leave it as is, without correcting the paragraph/formatting errors.

The oddest of all the smears thrown at "Bowling for Columbine" is this one: "The film depicts NRA president Charlton Heston giving a speech near Columbine; he actually gave it a year later and 900 miles away. The speech he did give is edited to make conciliatory statements sound like rudeness." Um, yeah, that's right! I made it up! Heston never went there! He never said those things! Or.... The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word - read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was. Why are these gun nuts upset that their brave NRA leader's words are in my film? You'd think they would be proud of the things he said. Except, when intercut with the words of a grieving father (whose son died at Columbine and happened to be speaking in a protest that same weekend Heston was at the convention center), suddenly Charlton Heston doesn't look so good does he? Especially to the people of Denver (and, the following year, to the people of Flint) who were still in shock over the tragedies when Heston showed up. As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image - hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it?

At this point, there's nothing more to say, really. Judge for yourselves if Moore is being honest or dishonest.

That's the same as with oh-so-many "artists" who rant away how they would rather see their songs pirated than not heard.

I don't know what Michael Moore's arrangement with Lionsgate is, but I suspect that he has a much higher financial interest in his movies than the vast majority of musicians do in their CDs.

At any rate, I'm going to go see it in the theater. Aside from being the right thing to do, I really enjoy Michael Moore's movies and I'd like to encourage him to make more by voting with my dollars what is worth paying to see and what isn't. Here's the trailer, it looks like it might be his best one yet.

What a copout. Anything could be a lie, even before the digital world. What something like the Internet has done is made it easier to check different sources. Just judging stuff by whatever makes you feel good is dishonest and lazy. You could spend one hour looking at the Truth about Bowling link I provided, the evidence he provides, the reactions by Moore himself and others, etc.
Just look at the transcript of Heston's speech. You'll find the same one on Moore's site.

It isn't that hard, except you'd have to accept the possibility that something you believed in was deliberate spinning of the truth. But human nature is to not to question our long-held beliefs.

Regarding greedy, nearly everybody is greedy, even the poor. I'm guessing you don't live in a shack and donate the majority of your money and time to charity. And neither would a poor person given the chance to rise out of poverty. It's just that everybody tends to look at those better off as greedy, but not themselves.

Perhaps if you watched Bowling for Columbine with the criticisms of that page in mind, you'd see how ridiculous most of them are. The whole overblown thing about "misrepresenting" the Denver NRA meeting is just laughable, especially if you read the full transcript of the smug speech from Heston. (Which, incidentally, Moore has on his web site.)

See also http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/8/12/171427/607

Not to mention making "award winning" "documentaries". Context, what's that?

This probably has more to do with the hurricanes and winter storms.

No, it doesn't.

During Katrina, the Feds were criticised for *not* [...properly rendering...] aid.

Yes, they were. But none of these provisions would have helped them. Bush's choice to ignore what was happening in New Orleans was his own doing (or undoing). No law prevented him from making sure FEMA had not been mismanaged or from putting forward the focus and attention at the appropriate time to be sure FEMA was handling the crisis in New Orleans. His desire to nationalize the troops and then use not helping New Orleans as the consequence for any state government that wanted to retain its sovereignty will go down in history as one of the most callous moments of any president's tenure. Bush can go to hell for doing that. Hopefully he will at least go to prison.

Heck, they don't even lock their houses!

Yes, I saw that stupid movie too. I certainly lock my door, as do most people I know.

He must have had his eyes closed when he visited Toronto ... if he wants to come back, I volunteer to give him a tour of the real slums. They're not as bad as some American cities, but they sure as hell are not as nice as he portrayed, either. But, as he surely knows, with selective editing you can make anything look good or bad, as you wish.

Also, please tell him to keep his damn opinions to himself. I don't like Harper either, but this is our country, and he has no right to tell us how to vote. Same goes for this guy (ps: Thanks for eight years of George W! Who are you to lecture us on how to vote?)

Dvorak is nothing other than the worlds most successful troll.

Nothing better to clear the government from a conspiracy charge than a theorist saying it was missiles and not airplanes. Compare this with globalphobics - while there are many legitimate people asking for a change in the way Uncle Sam does business with poor nations, all the govt. has to do is throw in some zealots to mix with the population and discredit the movement entirely.

So, let's forget about the UFO guys and the "it wasn't airplanes it was missiles" nutjobs. What about a much more plausible conspiracy? i.e. Bush (or one of his friends) having an agreement with Osama (Let's not forget that the Bin Ladens DID have business with the Bush family - i'm talking about Oil).

Here's how it goes:

You play the bad guy, I play the good guy, but I don't catch you and instead I go for Iraq. I become the national hero, just in time for the 2004 elections. Meanwhile you keep threatening the west with more attacks to keep the public in fear.

Scientifically, this idea is not far fetched AT ALL. The problem with it, is that it would turn Bush (or the CIA) into a cold blooded murderer who sacrificed thousands of american lives to gain political power - and that's so shocking that nobody would ever believe it.

Except one annoying reporter, so let's give him a call and tell him to shut up, and in the meantime, throw in some conspiracy theorists to make noise so the people won't ever find out the truth.

And that's my theory.

Michael Moore is going to expose the rotten health care system in the USA in his new movie called Sicko:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.ph p?id=193

The health insurance industry is a parasite the purpose of which is to interfere with your patient-doctor relationship and to deny your treatment.

Dude, Where's my country?

And expelling people from State of the Union for wearing a tshirt with a message that the government doesn't approve of.

Look how many companies do business in China. Their purpose is to make money, and that's it, they're done. Certainly, they could use this foothold to lead by example, show alternatives to repression by how they operate, once in... but most seem content to keep the wider profit margins. Remember Nike? Oh, that's old news, and that Liberal filmmaker guy talked about it, so we don't wanna be called nutjobs by the right; best drop the topic.

Let's complain about filtered search engine results; it takes the pressure off the people beating up women in sweatshops, like Disney.

Insanely, you can find that US companies defy Chinese worker-rights laws and oppose unions illegally... i'm sorry, but if you've pissed off the Chinese government by rights violations, that's a noteworthy achievement in the annals of Bastardness. Ask, how fast can change occur? Will any occur at all if we leave China to closed borders and pretend our hands are squeaky-clean 'cause we refuse to touch it? Yeah, but it'd be ugly, and slow. The real issue may be more along the lines of, "once there, what do they DO?" Will Google keep playing along with the status quo forever? Will they lead by example? Will they be a freeing influence or a repressive influence?

If the first rule is "sign here or you don't get to play at all," then it's called a "compromise." Those without the illusion of self-purity make them now and then, since getting real work done means getting your hands dirty. The question is whether you attempt to wash your hands after, or like staying dirty and profit from it - like American companies have been doing for a couple of decades now.

But we bash Google 'cause they dared to say "Do no evil." We tacitly accept that, by default, everyone else can do as much evil as they want, or what...? Their mantra is 'do no evil,' not 'do not sully thy hands.'

Slow tho it may be, progress is made, even in China. Even by China. You will leave billions of their working poor to rot, isolated and alone, because your sense of moral purity doesn't allow you to deal with their government?

How nice for you. Most people in the world don't have that option.

Forgive the source.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/aaron_b roussard.mov

MOD PARENT UP. Excellent site!

Whoops! Hit the submit button before I was fully ready.

What do you think of TugZip?

I would like a way to limit searches on your web site to Open Source software. I think it would be good if each listing on your site mentioned if the package is open source.

--
Michael Moore on Bush incompetence: Not a good writer, but I agree.

MOD PARENT UP. Excellent site!

--
Michael Moore on Bush incomptence: Not a good writer, but good ideas

Staged? (Score:2)
by Aexia (517457) on Monday August 08, @02:32PM (#13271688)

Well, there was the fact that the bank scene was staged.

How exactly?

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" - that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001,

But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."

Well, there was the fact that the bank scene was staged.

How exactly?

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" - that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 - and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms ("How do you spell Caucasian?") - which I am filling out here for the first time - the bank manager faxed it to the bank's main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF's Federal Firearms database--which includes all federally approved gun dealers--lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

Within 10 minutes, the "OK" came through from the firearms background check agency and, 5 minutes later, just as you see it in the film, they handed me a Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle (If you'd like to see the outtakes, click here).

Apparently, Moore didn't "lie" often enough in BfC that his detractors didn't have to make shit up. Funny, really.

Wow, you are one brainwashed sheep, incredible. Don't watch so much TV.

One suggestion: cut some of that TV time down and read this instead.

Typing each of the first ten numerals into google gives:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

The issue of election integrity is bigger than the Kerry Bush race. For the first time in the history of this democracy, we are trusting electronic tabulating machines to count votes in a presidential race. Machines which reknown computer scientists and cryptologists have proven to be insecure and untrustworthy.

In addition to being insecure and untrustworthy these machines left no "paper trail", no way of verifying the machine's count in a recount. When you have no paper trail, the only tool to investigate the integrity of a machine count is that of statistics, as Berkeley researchers were forced to rely upon when they concluded that voting irregularities lead them to believe 260,000 votes were invalidly awarded to Bush. In fact when 4,258 votes were awarded by a Diebold machine to Bush in Franklin County, Ohio we only knew that result had to be wrong because only 638 voters had casted ballots. Unfortunately this wasn't an isolated event as Diebold has stirred a string of such voting irregularities. According to Bob Fitrakis:

Due to computer flaws and vote shifting, there were numerous reports across Ohio of extremely troublesome electronic errors during the voting process and in the counting. In Youngstown, there were more than two-dozen Election Day reports of machines that switched or shifted on-screen displays of a vote for Kerry to a vote for Bush. In Cleveland, there were three precincts in which minor third-party candidates received 86, 92 and 98 percent of the vote respectively, an outcome completely out of synch with the rest of the state (a similar thing occurred during the contested election in Florida, 2000). This class of error points to more than machine malfunction, suggesting instead that votes are being electronically shifted from one candidate to another in the voting and counting stage.

All reported errors favored Bush over Kerry.

Which leads us to question the integrity of the election especially when the exit polls were so clearly in favor of Kerry.

The CEO of Diebold has made no attempt to hide his support for Bush. Ironically, he has publically stated that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year". Later he stated it was a mistake to have said that, he meant it as an American, not as the CEO of a corporation that was contracted to count votes in Ohio. The CEO however isn't the only one to be painted with a big brush of suspicious, as at least five convicted felons secured management positions in his company. One of which served time in a Washington state correctional facility for stealing money and tampering with computer files in a scheme that "involved a high degree of sophistication and planning."

In my response I have analyzed the integrity of the Ohio election through the prisim of electronic voting, others have made other arguments regarding why they think an investigation is warranted as I can assure you the problems with Diebold is not limited to Ohio nor is electronic voting the only "irregularity" in Ohio [1] [2]

So your accusing Moore of not caring about accurate and cares only about getting attention and make money would be about as accurate as my saying you are a fat lonely geek who only works to make money and to post and get attention on Slashdot. :)

look at the 60% election turn out, it's obvious that the 'insurgents' do not represent the views of the majority.

So to call them "minutemen" (a la Michael Moore) is so obviously wrong it's sad.

so now, they are by definition: insurgents

remember, The Islamists' chief spokesman in Iraq, Musab al-Zarqawi was very straightforward: "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology," Zarqawi declared in a statement. "Democracy is also based on the right to choose your religion," he said, and that is "against the rule of God."

if he spoke for the "people" they wouldn't've shown up like they did.

now imagine how many more would've shown up if they weren't threatened with execution and hanging and torture of their family(ies).

read bernard goldberg's books, if you dont' think there is (left) bias in those other networks you're just as biased.

remember, corporate != conservative

"..All, more or less. Look at how all of those channels let the White House get away with things that had Clinton done it the Republicans would have howled about endlessly. ..." examples?

I think that Michael Moore should make a movie, by approaching these companies managers, like he did with Roger and Me. It might make a nice expose for all of those that have unknowingly clicked on one of these so called ads.

'similarly excellent' simply means as excellent. It's like if I said that tubgirl.com was simlilarly tasteful as goatse.cx I would not be saying that tubgirl was tasteful; but only that it compares to goatse.cx.

Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 has a section that deals with Congress not reading the PATRIOT Act before passing it.

On his site, Moore has a page dealing with backing this claim up, "Congress did not read the Patriot Act before voting on it"

(I'm posting anonymously since I've already moderated (which means I'm also not the OP))

Like the topic says: Canadians vote by writing an "X" in a box on a piece of paper next to a party's name and sticking the piece of paper in a cardboard box.

All I have to ask America is: what's the fucking problem?

Why is electronic voting neccesary? That's a rhetorical question - it's NOT neccesary. I'm more wondering why people tolerate whatever the morons in power dictate. Wake up, you're getting fucked with.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ - Visit the site.. it's dedicated to revealing any truth behind possible (woops I mean 99% likely) election fraud.

"Black Box Voting has launched a fraud audit into Florida."

"Black Box Voting is also launching a fraud audit in Ohio."

"Black Box Voting is implementing fraud diagnostics on the state of New Mexico. Information we recently received is indicative of widespread vote manipulation."

"Black Box Voting is requesting legal assistance for a specific county in Georgia. Indications of corrupt voting processes, with possible criminal actions by local officials."

"Multiple irregularities. Need people to take affidavits from election workers, statewide."

Just view the page, and read it. Yup, democracy is still strong in the U.S. ...

But hey, don't take my word for it that fraud occured in the US... http://www.votewatch.us/ee/view_observations Just listen to what these thousands of others have to say about their voting experiences... There are some more fun stories here as well: http://www.michaelmoore.com/electionwatch/

...I am going bowling...

Sounds good to me. Just try not to commit mass murder afterwards

AC

--
In a March 3, 2004, interview, Senator Clinton told CNN's Lou Dobbs that America must "quit giving incentives to people for moving jobs offshore." She also said "if we do nothing, we're going to continue to export American jobs." The senator appeared to be against outsourcing, but her actions speak louder than words.

Seven days later Hillary Clinton welcomed Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), a branch of Tata Group, an Indian conglomerate, to New York at an event with a host of other officials. Arup Gupta, president of TCS America, claimed last year that on development work, TCS sends 70 percent of the work offshore, and 30 percent is done in the United States. This fact didn't seem to faze the senator who proudly claimed that Tata created a full "10 jobs" for Buffalo. http://www.technewsworld.com/story/35042.html

Note to Dem's: You lost. get over it. move on. If it make you feel any better see the Moore site now looks like Aljazeera Wow! Shocker... This helps the U.S. how exactly?

Every line in F9/11 is backed up with facts here:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader /

Those are not valid sources that he uses? Which ones do you disagree with?