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Dvorak Admits To Trolling Mac Users
jalefkowit writes "Tech pundit John Dvorak has long been known for his inflammatory opinions. Many have suspected that these opinions are just a way to drive up traffic to his column. Now, we have it straight from the horse's mouth: Dave Winer has Dvorak on video describing his methodology for trolling the Mac community to pump up his stats."
I have to admit I'm also guilty of posting the occasional inflammatory story, but I find it's usually best to suffix the title with a question mark, and let our ever-knowledgeable readers hash out the issue and decide for themselves.
Thats an almost impossible task - mac users are too smart to take the bait ;)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Direct link: http://s3.amazonaws.com/scripting/dvorak.mov?torre nt
Of course, Dvorak will just say that it's not true -- he was just trolling on that recording, thus completing the prophecy and dooming mankind.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Dvorak is nothing other than the worlds most successful troll. As much as everyone here complains about him, we eat it up and come back for more. We used to be able to pretend it was the editors foisting him upon us... but lo' and behold, democratic Digg comes along, and he still makes the front page!
Next you will be telling me that Ann Coulter only accuses the 9/11 widows of enjoying the death of their spouses to get attention.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Infiltrated dot Net
Cowboy Neal in Slashdot troll shocker! Read all about it for only $19.99 at all good book stores
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Since when do mac users need to pay any more for an external hard drive? Standard USB 2.0/Firewire external hard drives are compatible with any modern PC and Mac.
--
Are you a Chipotle Fan?
Has anyone else noticed tags being censored, as Dvorak seems to be immune to the usual tags of "idiot moron troll"?
The thing is though one has to understand that the Mac community is a tiered structure. At the top there are we Mac users who are experienced computer users, who understand what we are doing and how computers and operating systems work and accept the existence of things such as 'bugs' and 'vulnerabilities' etc.
Unfortunately the thing that gives us all a bad name are the very vocal ignorant users that for example simply flat out refuse to accept any criticism of Apple or it's products whatsoever - in fact I'd go as far to say it becomes a religious issue as no matter how much evidence they are confronted with, they either are not capable of comprehending what is being presented to them or if they are, refuse to even consider it as this could mean Apple *might* be wrong and as they know, this cannot possibly happen as they consider Apple infallible.
Very, very odd behaviour and quite annoying as for example, should I attempt to get someone to consider a Mac, all it takes is someone they know who has 'heard about those Mac zealots' to put them off.
Consider also that any comment on apple.slashdot that however truthful, might mention a bug or vulnerability or other otherwise is perceived as a criticism gets modded as troll or flamebait (like this comment for example), tells a lot about the community.
Talk about starting a bonfire with a flamethrower
He makes great stats for years doing this, ups the ante by admitting that he knows it's the key to his success (thereby getting a lot of people to show up again) and now, the question is, will people stop reading him? Of course not. For the same reason that the right can't ignore Ted Rall and the left, Ann Coulter. He's the Rall and Coulter rolled into one of the tech press.
In other news, slashdot posters guilty of posting comments intended to spark debate and foster discussion of interesting topics!
It's sort of like accusing a congressman of creating and passing good legislation because he has a secret desire to get re-elected, or accusing someone of going to work to get paid. Imagine the nerve of some people!
[SNIP]Dave Winer has Dvorak on video describing his methodology for trolling the Mac community to pump up his stats." [SNIP] I have to admit I'm also guilty of posting the occasional inflammatory story, but I find it's usually best to suffix the title with a question mark, and let our ever-knowledgeable readers hash out the issue and decide for themselves.
You do it for the same reason Dvorak did it. Not to boost "stats"- to boost advertising revenue by increasign page hits. A 300-post thread is thrilling advertising-wise compared to a 30-comment thread. It's always about increasing advertising revenues.
The evil "main stream media" has a term for it: sensationalism. You should attract readers via the quality of your content, not its controversialism. These days I see the average tech story on the homepage of my city's newspaper 1, 2, 3 days before it hits slashdot- and half the time, it's an AP wire story! Gone are the days when the media outlets didn't have contacts in the tech industry or didn't "understand" it. Slashdot's become a real bore, and the quality of commentary both on the part of editors and readers has gone straight downhill.
Please help metamoderate.
Link to the video. The sound was out of sync for me, but he basically comes across as a smug arse.
but I find it's usually best to suffix the title with a question mark, and let our ever-knowledgeable readers hash out the issue and decide for themselves.
Which is, unfortunately, the case with many Slashdot (and most Digg) stories. As soon as I see a sensationalistic title ending with a question mark, I automatically skip to the next story.
He can now make another article about how apple paid him to say this. That'll be an awesome way to continue the trolling.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Dvorak admits to trolling Mac users and Rosen admits the RIAA is wrong... apparently they know the second coming is happening soon and want to get some things off their chest.
REPENT I SAY!
Actually, this does remind me of one of those stories where someone does a scientific study to find out something that "everyone already knows."
Except, of course, we didn't all know it before, we suspected it, and assumed it was true. Every once in a while you find out that something "everyone knows" isn't true after all, so getting confirmation does have value.
We Slashdot users, of course, will never stoop to such measures just to get modded up :)
First, do we have a confirmed source for this? The YoutTube video is INCREDIBLY out of sync. Can anybody confirm that it is indeed him speaking and not someone doing a voice-over?
My second question is, now that Cowboy Neal himself has commented on this, does that mean Slashdot editors will stop posting his stories finally? Something inside tells me it won't change a damn thing because much like Dvorak, Slashdot also gets large amounts of revenue from posting his trolling stories.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
It must be really working. Apple fanboys have no one but themselves to blame.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Aqua is no more dumbed down the Gnome is in Ubuntu 6.06 which I use at work.. but it is better layed out the Windows is..
.. you make things up and look stupid for it. I have 4x300G Seagates in plain external enclosures. *ding* Go back to the end of the line and please try again.
Mac users DO not pay double or triple for ANY external device
The heat issue was a mistake that has been corrected.. IBM, HP or Dell never make mistakes in manufacturing? Yeah.. right. Moron.
Tell me what you believe...I'll tell you what you should see.
Am I the only one that understood that this was meant to be funny? (Change its score, for chrissakes...)
This video is a troll on the Mac community.
-ch
my password really is 'stinkypants'
Don't forget he gets no spam.
dvorak.org/blog
I think he is funny on TWIT, he is always getting things wrong it cracks me up.
Trolling is nothing new especially when you look right here on Slashdot every day. What gets Slashdot the most pageviews? Stories about Microsoft. The anti MS people comment like crazy while the pro MS people do the same. I swear there could be a story about finding a cure for cancer above a story about Microsoft and the Microsoft story would have more comments.
My sig of choice is Marlboro
why do they pay double or triple price for simple pieces of hardware that works with Mac like an external USB hard drive?
If you can get me an external HDD enclosure for $8.00 including shipping, please post the vendor's name and address here.
Otherwise, I'll continue to recommend the $24 enclosures for Mac users.
Dave Winer has Dvorak on video
Calculating hatred ratio, Winer:Dvorak...Warning: overflow
Warning: overflow
Warning: overflow
Warning: overflow
DOES NOT COMPUTE! ERRORRR!!@@
"and let our ever-knowledgeable readers hash out the issue and decide for themselves."
And when your not manipulatively inflammatory against "the other camp", your a manipulative kiss-ass to this one.
Ann Coulter is the rightwing Anchor Troll in their "Overton Window" strategy.
It's a simple way to force the public debate "spectrum window" to your end of the spectrum by trolling unthinkable statements in public. Successful trolls create only predictable responses, not any further development of the ideas. So the "unthinkable" is now part of the public conversation, without risking rejection by anyone actually thinking about it. Changing the ideas in the public window of the spectrum moves the window closer to the new idea. Now the window includes more of the thinkable ideas that were excluded or marginalized, while the window excludes or marginalizes the ideas previously more in the "center", but further away from the troll.
The only risk with overtonning the window is that the troll discredits its entire end of the spectrum by association. Which is why it's important that the troll make as extreme, ridiculous comments as possible. And frequently defend their statements with "I was just kidding". The associates who benefit from the troll in their neighborhood must also not even repudiate the troll, as any association (positive or negative) is contagious. The troll must work alone. Though of course they can be paid by the same beneficiaries, or have their "home markets" all subsidized by the same beneficiaries.
Now Ann Coulter actually makes sense, probably for the first time. As do her fellow trolls like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and most of the rightwing talkradioheads.
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make install -not war
I hadn't seen any announcement about Itanium macs, but I'd certainly assumed that's what was going to happen. For all of the money that Intel has pissed away on Itanium, I had assumed two things:
1) They must come out with an interesting version eventually.
2) A great time to announce that they'd made the things interesting would be with a huge splash announcement like Apple adopting it.
The roadmap of desktops now, laptops shortly would be pretty consistant with a technology breakthrough.
Pity it didn't happen. It's sad to see the processor world still dancing around the stinking carcass of x86.
I don't mind. Mac trolls windows users with their ads -- so it's fair game.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Now
Slashdot's new layout fits right in with Vista.
Ever ask yourself how so many Dvorak posts end of on the front page of Slashdot?
Slashdot owes it's success to posting trolls on it's front page all day, every day.
These Dvorak columns got huge comment responses across every Mac-oriented tech site, ZDNet would be really stupid to be paying people to post them. The slashvertisements are for the random hardware products that get posted or the crappy unknown hardware review sites.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Nothing gets people reading like a controversial opinion. When ad services pay per view, writing something that goes against popular opinion and getting it posted endlessly on "I can't believe this guy" theads on forums. Who cares if you have to write something that isn't inline with your own views if it can earn you a quick buck?
Like we really needed him to admit the obvious.
The UI is not nice, its awful. OSX was a major step backwards for interface consistency, intuitiveness and usability. And the unix underpinnings of OSX make technical users sick to their stomachs. Even those who can tolerate jumbled up random messes like modern linux distros are put off by the horrible job they did of OSX.
Only the wanna-be technical users think OSX is nice. They are the same ones who think gentoo is nice. They don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. They consider themselves the technical elite, but don't even know the basics yet.
Or was that the other end of the horse?
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
After this story how many more reasons does Slashdot need to stop posting stories by or about Dvorak?
Just stop. There is plenty of tech news from legitimate sources.
As far as I'm concerned, the real humor left PC Mag. whenever Penn Jilette quit writing the back page column for them, years ago.
... nor do I take him too seriously. I just find his columns to be full of personal ramblings and random "what if?" type thoughts, tossed out there for the world to read.
I don't find Dvorak "funny"
It's the URL that sucks, it ought to be http://mac-sucks.com/ :) .
Firehed - Unfortunately, thanks to medical breakthroughs, common sense is not as common as it once was.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Dvorak is deliberately screwing the advertisers that pay for his web hits.
Dvorak publishes on PC-centric websites, but he trolls Mac users for hits. The PC advertisers are getting screwed, they pay for advertising to PC buyers, Mac users aren't the target audience. The trolling articles draw a massive influx of Mac users, the PC advertisers pay for all those hits from people that will never buy their products.
The only way Dvorak is going to stop trolling is if the PC advertisers wake up and realize their money is being wasted by a maniac that values his own ego more than he provides value for advertisers.
I remember Dvorak since WAY back...the 8-bit days. Kilobaud Microcomputing and early issues of Byte- that far back. I don't think I've ever heard anything from him that met reality...why do we care, again?
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
I like Dvorak. He's a smart & funny guy.
There's some truth to this, but only some truth..
Of the senior people I work with who were on Macs 10 years ago, at least 50% are still there, and recently some that moved on to Windows are seriously considering moving back. And I'm talking about people like chief engineers, tech directors, etc; not just "old farts" who were unwilling to learn new technologies. Where I used to work, on a "pay scale" of 3..7, with 3.5 being the average paygrade of staff, the self-supporting Mac Users list had an average paygrade of about 5.5. (And that's with a typical pyramid distribution, there were very few paygrade 7s in the company, but I'll bet 10%-15% of those were die-hard Mac users.)
The primary reason for moving away was usually "Software I wanted wasn't available on the Mac." However, the continued problems with Windows viruses, spyware, malware, etc, plus the strength of the OS X underpinnings of Unix, have been a big part of the re-connection. Most of these same people have substantial Unix backgrounds, so coming back to OS X and popping up a terminal shell, is like 'coming home'. We'll see how much effect MacTel has on the availability of software for the Mac platform.
But I count myself as a super-loyalist, and that belief was strongly reinforced by the 18 months I spent being forced to use Windows NT (versus MacOS 8 at the time), and my continued attempts to try to maintain a Windows (98->2k->now XP Pro) machine in my home environment (alongside 1 old Mac running OS 9, and 4 Macs running X.4). My informal estimate was that being on Windows cost me between 10 and 30 minutes lost productivity each day at work on the Windows box. Multiplied by 250 days in a year, times my billing rate at the tme, and that's a fair amount of money (enough to buy me a new Mac every 30 months...) And that doesn't include the cost of all the tech support that was provided on the Windows box, that didn't come out of my productivity measure.
So when I switched jobs (in part because my employer was discontinuing all support for Macs, don't get me started on that situation and the company's unwillingness to back up assertions of life-cycle cost savings with the data we all knew they had collected...), I made it a condition of employment with my new company that they'd provide me with a Mac and make sure their core business systems (e.g. web-based timecards) would be standards-conformant to support not just my Mac, but anyone who wanted to remain on Linux.
When something better comes along, I'll try it. But I'll point out I bought my first personal computer in Oct 1978, and I've tried just about everything except Windows 3, BoB and Windows ME. Pretty much consistently, at each point in time, the Apple offering was markedly better than the WinTel offering, enough to justify the price (and performance) differential. Linux systems have some significant price/performance advantages over Mac OS X (and certainly over WinTel), but not strong enough usability for the 90% of the stuff I spend my time doing (and that's the stuff that cost me the productivity hit on Windows.)
dave
"Mac" is the brand name of a product line (of computers) made by Apple. Products do not troll. Apple is a company, so if trolling is being done, it is Apple (or more specifically Apple Marketing) that is doing it. Choose your nouns carefully!
Apple's OS X v. Windows XP ads are hardly trolling. It is not trolling when a company compares their product line against their competitor's in a non-subjective way.
When I pull up the terminal window and type 'uptime' my Mac will return a date figure which is in months (and for a while there in years + months!) I have owned a PC running Windows XP and this was never the case. So memory fragmentation and frequency of rebooting are a legitimate comparison between the two platforms.
The iLife suite of applications, like iPhoto, iTunes, iEtc, is far better integrated, reliable and functional than any of the lifestyle applications that Microsoft bundles with Windows. So again, the point that Apple is making is legitimate. Just because you don't like the comparisons being drawn does not make the act of doing so flaming any more than my debate with you is flaming. Too often people call out others for flaming simply based on the fact that they don't like what the other party is saying.
This is not the case with Dvorak. I've been reading him since the late 80s/early 90s. While not being as overtly ridiculous a buffoon as someone like Bill O'Reilly, Dvorak's idea of "fair and balanced" is about as legitimate as that of Fox News. He often chooses which facts to include in a story to give it the slant he wants. He is consitently anti-Apple and makes little attempt to hide the fact. He reminds me of 60-Minutes' Andy Rooney or that idiot on ABC News, John Stossel. (Note: That bit about John Stossel was flaming. The man has the epistemological skills of a turnip and regularly makes an ass of himself on national television.)
The point isn't to hate Dvorak or harbor any emotion toward him whatsoever. The point is that he exists and has the right to voice his opinion, just like when skinheads march or Rupert Murdoch distorts the news. The only way to make people like them go away is to stop listening to them. How many times is a guy like Dvorak going to cry wolf (or inferior product) before people learn to roll their eyes at him? How many people in this country listen to writers like him because they're simply looking for someone they perceive to be in a position of authority (paid writer) to legitimize the things they already want to believe? It is not about facts, truth, or knowledge, it's all about spin.
If Dvorak was smart, he'd get a patent for that word quickly, then sell the rights to Steve Jobs for use in his next MacWorld keynote. You know, the one where Apple is going to announce they are purchasing the country of China, and setting up a new Mac store on Europa?
Am I the only one who thinks he is joking? I mean, for all that is wrong with Dvorak, at least he has a sense of humor.
Where is my irony meter when I need it...
Reporters are not supposed to troll, they are supposed to at least believe what they say is correct (even if it's not).
When John Dvorak writes his typical troll stories, potentially millions of people not familiar with the phenomenon John Dvorak take the article at face value and form opinion of people and products that affect their purchase choice and they also share the misinformation with other people.
Tell a lie enough times, and it stops being a lie in people's minds.
So are "Mac zealots" to be mocked about reacting strongly to lies spread in the media, or should the liears not exist in first place?
It's not so funny that media use misinformation just to drive ad impressions up. That's really low of them.
It is not about facts, truth, or knowledge, it's all about spin.
It is funny, isn't it? In this age of abundant information, understanding seems to be slipping from our (collective) grasp. Since everything is subjective anyway, apparently we should all simply abandon to even attempt objectivity.
That seems to be the gestalt: In essence, the world is too crazy to figure out. Too many facts. Too many opinions. Just give up and read stuff that makes you feel good about your own assumptions. Dvorak obviously thinks so. He just figures it's all entertainment anyway, so why bother working from facts, when pure conjecture and baiting will serve his purpose much better?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Didn't any one else notice that the video was manipulated - I mean I haven't seen such a dubbing disaster in years.
editing: "Tech pundit John Dvorak has long been known for his lame and baseless opinions."
... and generating traffic from Mac and PC users as vacuous as he is.
If Slashdot didn't occasionally regurgitate his vapor I wouldn't know that he was still around.
I forgot to sig
"Oh...wow, I was totally wrong about the dumbed-down interface, and the pricey hardware, and heat issue, thanks for pointing that out folks. In fact, my opinion has done a complete 180..."
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Paul Thurrot used to be a lot worse, but he still drops the occasional Apple troll. Check out this story from today, for example. He mentions a nice article from the Apple support kbase on letterboxing and such, which clearly in the article is geared towards iMovie users, and then says "Coming next week from the iPod maker: Personal advice about dating."
Yeah Paul, Apple has no products with anything to do with video playback or video content creation, right?
To Paul's credit, he's come around a lot and rarely does stuff like this lately. When he does, though, it makes me scratch my head.
- "When you want something with all your heart, the entire universe conspires to give it to you" -Paulo Coelho
Here's the transcript of the video. Note that the audio is out of sync on the BitTorrent version too.
... there's a formula for pissing off Macintosh users and getting a lot of links or attention. And this has been deconstructed, but never accurately. I'm going to give you the deconstruction.
... which would piss them off even more.
...
---------
(Dvorak):
First, I write something that would be semi-innocuous, with just enough insulting stuff to get a lot of attention from the Macintosh community. So then they would write in -- and by the way, it would always be done in such a way that I had outs -- in other words, I would write in kind of a leisurely way. That would get me one column with a lot of numbers.
Then I'd get a lot of hate mail, and all kinds of weird Macintosh reaction. And then, I would react to it as though I was flabbergasted that everybody misterpreted me, and that they hated it, and I don't get it, and what's wrong with these people
So I'd get like huge hits
(Interviewer): So what was the point of all this?
(Dvorak): Now wait a minute. For numbers!
(Interviewer): Which numbers -- exactly, what numbers are you looking for?
(Dvorak): I get them. Believe me. Lots of numbers.
Now, then I let it simmer down for a while, and then whatever position I took originally, I would change the position exactly the opposite, and tell the Macintosh people I was completely wrong, and they were write all along, and the numbers would go through the ceiling!! Haha!
It was only about 20 years ago that Z-D tasked Dvorak with trolling Mac users as the inside back cover columnist for the old MacUser, where he openly admitted to writing things to inflame Mac users enough that they'd have to buy the magazine just to have reference for their 10-page crayon screeds to the editors against him. And if ancient history and paper is too hard, he has said what he said to Winer oon at least a half-dozen TWiT podcasts over the past year. This is not news, it is Dvorak stating an obvious truth for the umpteenth time. He is apparently still getting a chuckle from the fact that some people who take everything too seriously (e.g. Dave Winer) still don't get the joke after having it explained to them repeatedly over decades. If Winer really thinks this is some great revelation of sin, he's got his head further inserted than ever.
It is the job of anyone who writes for ad-supported media to attract eyeballs, and Dvorak has never been ashamed of doing that job. Being scandalized by his honesty says a lot more about the intelligence (or maybe integrity) of those who are scandalized than it says about Dvorak.
He mentions that in the first five seconds of the vid.
If Dvorak was a serial killer, he'd be the one that's caught because he's just so damn proud of his body of work and smug enough to want to get caught so that he could explain to the great unwashed masses how brilliant he really is (not that it would help, because there's only so much the great unwashed can comprehend...).
No matter what anybody or any company does, the end result is the same:
I lose, you lose, we all lose (except big business). Somebody trolls, we complain, big business gets money. Who wins? Nobody (except big business).
this is the first reply i've seen that insults us the /. community as stupid? and it's labelled redudant! lol
sorry i find that amsuing.
Dvorak posts shit to get hits... and the more hits we give him, the more shit he's going to post.
Why this site encourages him time and time again, I have no idea.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
it literally goes from street level down to the store (and back up) and that's it. in theory you really could have a single "GO!" button. it was still broken as of last saturday when i was there... not that i was going to ride it, but the staircase spirals around it so you can't miss it. it is a really nice looking design with the glass stairs and glass elevator under the glass cube. it had to suck for those students being trapped in a transparent fishtank. heh.
as for the store itself, it is really nothing more than a larger version of your nearest Apple store. there is no theater or anything like the other NYC Apple store. they do have a crapload of computers out for people to play with (check email etc). i would expect a ton of the people that come in there do not actually own a Mac. they are either possible switchers, iPod owners, or people looking for free net access.
I think we generally stick to modding posts up for *being* funny, not just for trying.
I wonder how many hits his site will get as people visit just to complain about the movie?
Clear, Dark Skies
With Apple selling out to x86 I feel like someone who's been proclaiming all this time that my balls are bigger when they're not. The only thing I have left to boost my ego with is my looks.
I just wish he'd be given his own category. That way I can block him from my personal front page in favour of more interesting stories, and those who want to be trolled can still be trolled. I'd settle for the slashdot editors deciding not to post his crap anymore, but I just don't think that's realistic. As sad as it is, Dvorak drives Slashdot activity as much as he drives his own pageviews.
IIRC, the ad comparing iLife to Windows' offerings compares the suite to Calculator and Clock, not Windows Media Player and Windows Picture and Fax Viewer. So it is trolling, whether you like it or not.
Hey, does your magic slink-off powder also work on cockroaches and malaria-bearing mosquitoes? Empty-nesters, meet empty-nichers. What is the supreme emotional satisfaction you seem to derive from slapping the label prostitute on an entire class of survival strategy? I guess there was a karmic distortion in the cosmic primordial plasma, and like Gandalf, somehow we are tasked with dispatching the Balrog from the omininous, obscure depths of Middle Earth. Gandalf smacks staff on narrow stone arch: Slink off! You shall not pass! But seriously, what gave you so much evident pleasure in voicing those words? I'd like to gather together a group of fifty people and do a nice little MRI run to see what nerve cluster is activated when these sentiments are voiced. I would guess it's not that far from the witch-hunting locus: general discomfort with the entire spectrum of feminine wiles that burns incandescent on one or two unfortunates just far enough off toward the end of the spectrum to become vilified as the exemplar for the entire class. Yes, that's what it is: the sound of a diffuse, non-specific anger collapsing to a focal point with the matches in hand. Another karmic flaw in the cosmic soup, or a redeeming characteristic of human nature? I'm getting a little twitchy with this slick-off powder. My first impulse is to pour it on everything in sight. Hey look, a warning label: product contains nano-granulated magnesium, do not inhale, keep away from exposed flame. Perfect! What's a good slink-off without a match, white light, and smoke?
Agreed. For a fact to be scientifically acceptable, it must be tested and quantified. Relying on common knowledge doesn't advance knowledge, but testing it might.
Oh, man you made me laugh so hard- you made my idea complete _^^
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
Apple's customers are like no others--a rich blend of the most sociologically elite with those seeking elegant, simple computing... Unlike users of Intel/Windows computers, a significant portion of Apple's users are active , exploratory , avant-garde and early adopters . The activities they enjoy are unique in the way that they more often incorporate rich media such as video and music as well as more active prosumer behavior than many more passive Windows [and Linux] users.
With above-average household income and education levels, the Mac population [is] very attractive [ intellectually as well as physically
really. That's all that's needed, isn't it? Doesn't that Apple store only have 2 levels? No matter which one you enter on, you want to go to the other, so a 1 button elevator is all that's needed.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Windows Picture? You mean the thing not released yet?
Fax viewer? No equivalent in the iLife suit..
True, they should have compared with WiMP and Windows Movie Maker, but there is still so much stuff missing!
Menzoberranzan Networks
80% Insightful 10% Informative 10% Mac Users
No, you're not putting Dvorak in perspective. Dvorak voicing his opinion is like 'skinheads marching'? Come on, that's clearly understating the case. Dvorak voicing his opinion is like the Nuremberg rallies. Dvorak voicing his opinion is like those radio stations stirring up the Hutus to go massacre the Tutsis.
There you go. Hope this helps.
PC Magazine? Integrity? Who are they kidding? PC Magazine lost all integrity years and years ago. Did something happen that they got a shred of it back?
If you could read you'd know that he's actually meta-quoting Josh Trevino of http://redstate.com/ via http://www.swordscrossed.org/?p=50. Here's what you didn't read to illuminate the situation:
Anyway, I know it's both faster and easier to just jump straight to the ad hominem rather than make any substantive argument. I don't fault you for it. Least resistance is the natural order.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
As could be expected, the trolls you mention often stray from legitimate topics to something just to get people excited. Unfortunately there's now a lot of legitimate unrest caused by foreign policy (US dealings with Iraq and the rest of the middle east), illegal immigration, social security failure, NSA wiretapping... the list goes on.
Most of the trolls are just complaining about how their government leaders are doing no better (if not worse) than a left-leaning government. It doesn't fit because a lot of the choices made in conflict to the public's interest don't have a clear benefit to the lawmakers. Either they are hopelessly led astray, or there is some other power behind the decay of the government of the US.
This really doesn't take away any of the blame from the right-controlled government officials. I just wish that the left had a solid case for better things to come. In the absense of that assurance I will be voting for the libertarian party.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I'll grant you that, although I would still put it in the category of advertising hyperbole in that they are trying to take it to an extreme to prove a point. (They really should've slammed WMP and all the other garbage that MS bundles though...) In reality Windows Media Player and Windows Picture and Fax Viewer are both singularly and collectively a joke compared to iLife apps.
... to see that hospitality rooms are obviously still in operation at professional conventions.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
If Republicans hated Ann Coulter, they wouldn't buy her books. And if they didn't buy her books, she'd never get on television spouting her nonsense.
Naw... Ann Coulter is representative of the mainstream of modern Republican thought.
She's just stupid enough to say out loud, what all the Republicans are thinking.
Such as the fact that snopes is often biased and inaccurate, even though many believe it to be gospel?
... and then they built the supercollider.
Macs don't come with Dvorak keyboards.
Arthur Schopenhauer
:-)
For a more concise and virtually definitive guide to trolling, see The Art Of Controversy
Translated here: http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/
And though i can't find a date of publication for that work, it sure predates cable and the intardweb :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer
But this was a good troll. I just don't comprehend that some people couldn't tell from Dvorak's expression and voice he was just having a laugh.
Or did they choose not to laugh along, so they could troll the idea this Dvorak is serious about this, and - implying he was ever serious and not just a fun and often insightful columnist, that he must therefore be a fraud? Reverse meta-trolling.
Now, where was i . .
Oh, well . . .
Many PC makers bundle (or offer as a cheap option) Microsoft Works Suite, which includes Word 2002, Works (basic spreadsheet, database, calendar), Digital Image Standard (iPhoto), Encarta, Money, and Streets & Trips Essentials. Every PC sold with a DVD burner is bundled with DVD creation software (iDVD) and the vast majority are also bundled with movie-making software (iMovie). Whether or not the software bundled with a particular PC is comparable to iLife (or is better) depends on the PC.
I think I agree with the rest of your comment. I just think the new Apple ads are almost as misleading as Bill O'Reilly or Michael Moore.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Good lesson in "objective reporting". The anglo-saxon tradition is: bring the news as objectively as possible. Deconstructed this means: don't tell people your own (boss') opinion, lead them to it by suggestion, and weighing and omitting facts in order to boost own viewpoint.
/. is an open invitation to french-bashing, so ladies and gentlemen, load your trolls!
Which imo is sick.
Contrast with the subjective and unprofessional french tradition of being an opiniated bastard. State the facts and then tell your readers exactly what you think of it and why. Not only do you get the facts (omission or misdirection is not honorable) but man, can those french write!
Of course, saying this on
Cheers
I think, therefore I am...I think.
I've just bought an Apple refurbished iBook G4 12" (1.3GHz) in preference to the new Macbook. I had the following reasons:
:-)
(1) I hate the current crop of glossy screens. When you are in a location with multiple bright light sources close to eye level it's very difficult to use the screen.
(2) I'm not keen on the "Casio calculator" keyboard.
(3) The iBook's smaller, has a slightly better battery life and runs cooler.
(4) I don't need processor speed for what I want to do with the machine.
(5) I don't trust first generation Apple machines.
(6) They are more expensive.
At least in the laptop/notebook arena, speed isn't everything.
Agrajag: "Oh no, not again!"
Duh!
Now I really don't understand why CowboyNeal didn't post my submission about scientists suspecting that the Sun will rise in the east again tomorrow.
This is one of the best Zen comments I've read on Slashdot, in a long time. There is too much internet clutter and the bottom line is that you can look at each piece of a forest if you want -- each specific twig and rock -- and you can spend your life classifying them all and arguing about the relevance of each item, or you can simply sit under a tree and eat a fig.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Are classes something we take just to say we passed? Get the grade and forget everything you learned? It is an attitude prevalent in American schools and it is one of the reasons the world is kicking our butts economically speaking. To give one example among countless others, the Indians I have worked with in the United States and for whom English is a second language speak it more fluently than the majority of the Americans I know. (And most of the Americans I know have at least a Bachelors degree.) If your thoughts are inarticulate it follows that the words you use to express them will be as well. If your worlds are inarticulate, it most likely reflects a sloppiness in your thinking.
My PC was running Service Pack 2, it did have the firewall turned on, and it was still garbage. This had to do with the rate of memory fragmentation and other factors during the day to day running of the OS. (I tend to be they type of user which has 15+ applications open at any given time. This is not unreasonable to expect of an OS. My Mac manages all the time.) Actually, I could argue that it was Windows inability to properly manage its running assets which was at issue. The same hardware ran BSD and Linux just fine.
...here's another shocker: Fox News isn't fair and balanced!!! they takes side and stack the news!!!! OMG!!! Wow, this still goes on. I haven't bought a Mac in 7 years, partly because I thought the Mac heads where crazy. They would always fall for this Dvorak crap as if he poked a stick in thier eye and say the stupidest. I honestly believe that if The Wizards of Infinate Loop told them they had to thin the Mac heard and every Mac owner who's last name begins with C had to off themselves, there would be a night of sobbing and goodbys followed by a morning of carnage (relatively speaking 300x10^6 * .5 * .04 * 1/26 = 231x10^3 corpses).
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Mac. The operating system was and is the best out there. But the market place of ideas (like, what do you do with that great OS?) left it behind, and it still hasn't caught up. iTunes and the IPTV revolution following in behind it is thier strongest hand right now. If they would just free-up the OS from the WAY OVERPRICED niche boxes they would take off like a rocket.
Think of all the great voice-overs that could come of this movie! I, for one am waiting.
Got any examples?
Steve Jobs is less than godlike, and Apple is not the perfect company of all time.
I understand that you felt you were the target of that post, but let me correct your spelling error: ;-).
sorry i find that I am suing.
And suing is as usual the best solution to insults
Mac people are easy targets for trolling. They've been sucked in to paying a premium for a below average machine. They gleefully pay for style over substance, then feel the overwhelming need to try and convince others that it is foolishness to do otherwise, apparently to justify their folly to themselves. I don't get it, but sometimes they can be amusing when they're all riled up and hissy.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Windows users are easy targets for trolling. They've been sucked in to putting up with the most outrageous problems for the sake of saving a few dollars on an overpowered computer, then feel the overwhelming need to try and convince themselves that they don't really care about Windows annoyances and disasters, apparently to justify their purchase of a fancy videogame console. I don't get it, but sometimes they can be amusing when they're trying to be dry and ironic.
I've been using BSD since before Finder 0.9 was a glint in Jef Raskin's eye. Mac OS before OS X (before Jaguar, really) was exactly the kind of joke you're trying to make it. Today it's a decent desktop OS, and better than Windows as a server, but only because it's fired the creaky old 1960-quality OS that was holding it back. What's there now is no more "Mac OS" than Linux or FreeBSD are. Pity Microsoft can't bring themselves to bury the horrorshow of misdirected grad theses in the NT kernel and the crippled Win32 subsystem and start over from scratch.
I think China has acquired the 'capital' incentives of fascism, but doesn't qualify in other areas.
It is a country trying to move away from violence at many levels of its society: There is no coordinated fascist agitprop campaign against communists or unions, nor any particular affinity for recruiting violent gangs. Women are still a part of the governing and business cultures, and homosexuality has been decriminalized. And there is no large movement toward incarceration (as there is in the United States).
China could be heading toward incipient fascism, but my money is on them heading in a better direction. The big questions are whether they can keep seperatists from fragmenting the country, and whether democracy will play a role in their future.
What an outrage! Someone post a link to one of his articles so we can all leave scathing comments about this!