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When is SP1 for Vienna going to come out?

Er... wait, where is the surprise in this?

This article has already been declared as wrong - see http://www.longhornblogs.com/ and http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,190 2540,00.asp

Microsoft has already responded to this article by saying that nothing has changed: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,190 2540,00.asp

Apparently, Microsoft is preparing an emergency patch for this.

A simple search reveals that WinFS was stripped out, while Avalon and Indigo were "decoupled". So, it seems the only things Longhorn has going for it (beyond the new eyecandy GUI) is the "Fundamentals" APIs and WinFX, to plug it into. Truthfully, before WinFS was even removed, it was downgraded from an all-encompassing database filesystem to a wrapper for NTFS that developers can choose to ignore.

The real reason for the comment, though, is because Vista appears to be a dud, quite like XP. Admittedly, XP was a great improvement for people who were using Win 9x, but there's very little in XP that is an improvement over Windows 2000. It's more a fact that Windows didn't market Windows 2000 for the consumer, while they did market Windows 98/ME, that made XP the first of the Windows NT to sell so well to consumers. Now, assumedly Vista will sell as well, simply because OEMs will be expected to carry the next version of Windows when it's released. It'd take severe issues (a la Windows ME) for customers to actually demand to use XP instead.

So, technologically Vista seems mostly a dud. It's a shame, too, since with Microsoft still quite the monopoly in the desktop PC world, them actually making great strides seems like the only short-term way in which the desktop PC will advance. At the same time, I (and probably many others) never thought that WinFS would be finished on time, let alone included in Vista. Something like WinFS has been promised at least since the time of Windows 2000 (I've heard reports of sooner, but I don't recall personally reading such promises any earlier; a link to such a report appreciated). The real loss is that with all the software engineers at Microsoft who could truly design such a working system, Microsoft doesn't seem really interested in doing the right thing for the sake of good design. It's the same reason I have doubts about Microsoft's commitment to security. It's a long-term process, after all.

Note my last post was "modded-down" as a 'Troll', lol:

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169427&c id=14122224

Awwww, too bad, guess my life's over now, eh?

The fact here is, especially @ slashdot, that "Pro-Linux Penguins" just cannot seem to handle the fact that their precious open-source OS is not quite up-to-par vs. Microsoft offerings in terms of sales OR total cost of ownership (tco)...

Otherwise, if you say different, & that the facts I put up here:

"Windows leads as server market booms"

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/23/HNwindow sleads_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld. com/article/05/11/23/HNwindowsleads_1.html

(This wasn't by a study sponsored by Microsoft either, OR Laura Didio the author of that article, it was by the "yankee group" no less)

& here as well:

'New News' - I wonder about the "TCO" (Total Cost of Ownership) analysis for both? Well, then, here's an answer & yes, another quote:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,155 3620,00.asp

"But for the vast majority of customers and especially those that are already Windows shops Windows still offers better TCO value, according to the Yankee/Sunbelt Software study, which is due to be published this week."

Well, simply show us different studies then, which show otherwise than what I posted up here is all which contradict what I put up as evidence as to which OS is outperforming which!

(1 study I posted (by the Yankee Group) wasn't sponsored by Microsoft no less, the 'rallying cry' of Linux folks when studies don't show what they want - which is "Linux is better than Windows" & stating since a study's funded by MS, it's "no good" & that's just b.s.)...

Pitiful guys, really pitiful. The problem with the "Linux Zealot" is just that - they're a zealot, with NO backup in data/fact!

APK

P.S.=> Thanks for making my MAIN point for me here slashdotters, because apparently, when it comes down to 'push vs. shove', you just don't have the factual data to backup your b.s., period, & it shows... lol! I love it... apk

Note my last post was "modded-down" as a 'Troll', lol:

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169359&c id=14118370

Awwww, too bad, guess my life's over now, eh?

The fact here is, especially @ slashdot, that "Pro-Linux Penguins" just cannot seem to handle the fact that their precious open-source OS is not quite up-to-par vs. Microsoft offerings in terms of sales OR total cost of ownership (tco)...

Otherwise, if you say different, & that the facts I put up here:

"Windows leads as server market booms"

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/23/HNwindow sleads_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld. com/article/05/11/23/HNwindowsleads_1.html

(This wasn't by a study sponsored by Microsoft either, OR Laura Didio the author of that article, it was by the "yankee group" no less)

& here as well:

'New News' - I wonder about the "TCO" (Total Cost of Ownership) analysis for both? Well, then, here's an answer & yes, another quote:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,155 3620,00.asp

"But for the vast majority of customers and especially those that are already Windows shops Windows still offers better TCO value, according to the Yankee/Sunbelt Software study, which is due to be published this week."

Well, simply show us different studies then, which show otherwise than what I posted up here is all which contradict what I put up as evidence as to which OS is outperforming which!

(1 study I posted (by the Yankee Group) wasn't sponsored by Microsoft no less, the 'rallying cry' of Linux folks when studies don't show what they want - which is "Linux is better than Windows" & stating since a study's funded by MS, it's "no good" & that's just b.s.)...

Pitiful guys, really pitiful. The problem with the "Linux Zealot" is just that - they're a zealot, with NO backup in data/fact!

APK

P.S.=> Thanks for making my MAIN point for me here slashdotters, because apparently, when it comes down to 'push vs. shove', you just don't have the factual data to backup your b.s., period, & it shows... lol! I love it... apk

"At any rate FOSS is not declining in use. Its growing in all the ways and places it does." - by 3seas (184403) on Friday November 25, @06:09PM

First of all - Apparently, you don't read very well, do you? Here, I will post it again, so it sinks in for yourself, & others here:

"Windows leads as server market booms"

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/23/HNwindow sleads_1.html?source=rss&url=http://www.infoworld. com/article/05/11/23/HNwindowsleads_1.html

* Windows Server 2003 is OUTSELLING LINUX BY A COUNTRY MILE, & then some currently & also?

'New News' - I wonder about the "TCO" (Total Cost of Ownership) analysis for both? Well, then, here's an answer & yes, another quote:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,155 3620,00.asp

"But for the vast majority of customers and especially those that are already Windows shops Windows still offers better TCO value, according to the Yankee/Sunbelt Software study, which is due to be published this week."

(This wasn't by a study sponsored by Microsoft either, OR Laura Didio the author of that article, it was by the "yankee group" no less)

As you see, as to a main quote & support of quite the opposite of what you stated?

WINDOWS OFFERS BETTER TCO VALUE THAN LINUX!

And, in the business world, it's what you find out there: Windows, bigtime, vs. Linux & OpenSource software, period... just a fact!

Anyone out there in the real working world knows it's true as well, because they're out there in it actually working in this field:

Windows is found far more prevalently than Linux @ all levels thru desktop/laptop levels, to departmental servers, to domain & AD servers, to SQLServer, IIS, &/or Exchange servers (& other BackOffice oriented app servers) to Citrix/TS Servers, & other network infrastructures worldwide (by a HUGE margin on all of those levels).

Small wonder it runs 95-99% of all the personal computers &/or servers out there, mainly because everyone knows how to use it for the most part & it works.

Especially the 99.999% uptime-rated Windows Server 2003 on SP #1 with current hotfixes/updates/patches in place!

" If they are as good as they claim, then certainly they must realize that lying is not consistant with public relations marketing, and certainly only shows doubt about their own product and/or sales pitch." - by 3seas (184403) on Friday November 25, @06:09PM

Yea, lol, ok... then, just put up some facts then, & not your poetic marketing drivel that has no facts or studies backing it up then!

How you got modded up 5, astounds me. Based on what exactly (minus -1 for useless "karma points" that is, so it's really 4) on your end? LOL, having to "lump together" all the variants of UNIX (Linux, BSD, Apple's MacOS X) is pretty lame... but still, just "hearsay" on your part & YOUR opinions only, & no facts backing it up on your part!

(Talk about "F.U.D.", period, & the "Pro-Linux Penguins" here deluding themselves, in an attempt to do so with others!)

Face facts WITH facts, like the ones I put up, ok?

E.G.-> You provided no verifiable facts, vs. my own, just poetic drivel! ... & now it's just time to bury you in more facts vs. that level of nonsense with no backup is all.

The ONLY things Linux has going for it is FREE cost (especially regarding Apache as a webserver, but then, it runs on Windows as well) & Clustering vs. Windows for NOW!

(We'll see, for how long on the latter Linux holds dominance over Windows, niche arena though it is only... When CCS releases to production a year or two from now on Windows Server CCS version release we can make comparisons on that note as well

"Windows costs more than Linux. News at 11." - by ozmanjusri (601766) on Friday November 25, @10:41PM

New News: "And, still it seems to be winning!"

(First - Read the URL in the parent to your post which I posted)

Also, I wonder about that statement of yours. Yes, the init. cost is more, but what about "TCO" (Total Cost of Ownership) analysis?

Second - Another quote:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,155 3620,00.asp

"But for the vast majority of customers and especially those that are already Windows shops Windows still offers better TCO value, according to the Yankee/Sunbelt Software study, which is due to be published this week."

(This wasn't by a study sponsored by Microsoft either - & as you see, as to a main quote & support of quite the opposite of what you stated? WINDOWS STILL OFFERS BETTER TCO VALUE!)

APK

P.S.=> Care to argue with that? I will just bring out other studies of this nature, with the SAME results, easily. From right here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/facts /default.mspx

(And, that's just the start of it, there is tons more that show exactly the opposite of what YOUR STATEMENT said!)

Microsoft just keeps astonishing, don't they?? Actually BEATING OUT a zero-cost OS @ all levels for value... amazing! apk

Why use RSS for that when vCard and iCalendar specs already cover that and are implemented by many groupware suites out there. The RFCs cover from HTTP transport of calendar and contact data as well as other MIME enclosures...

You may not be that familiar with MS' tactics in the past. If you want to get your name in everything you have to act like you "contributed" to it. For them to add to an open standard they want to make it look like they proposed new features directly as opposed to a behind-the-scenes addition (open source itself isn't in it for the glory, though it comes naturally) that wouldn't help them out in publicity. I propose Microsoft does an upgrade to Internet Explorer (either 7 and/or more version 6 fixes) in light of the many recent exploits instead of trying to get their hands into more technologies...or perhaps IE 7 will be based on their implementation of RSS? Oh wait maybe I saw this on MSDN recently...

I am down to about 60/35 (Safari for the other 5%) usage with IE barely being used more than FF . Looking forward to seeing integrated RSS in IE7 (I'm sure this will be just one of many features) Quote

Or perhaps, The aggregator allows users to subscribe to feeds in both RSS and Atom formats; suggests and organizes popular feeds; and connects directly to MSN Search, saving a user's search history. No word yet on how or when MSN plans to commercialize the aggregator. The MSN RSS Aggregator .

It seems so much clearer now that the rain is gone! Definitely makes me think MS has something up that they aren't telling people

These are scrum successes? I'd hate to see the failures.

Maybe it was or maybe it wasn't but they had to do something. Intel got hammered by IP 'laws' like many other companies.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/security/ Well they did, but forcing software vendors to complie with it is a bit much. Microsoft is really good to developers and help them with as much information as they can give... THey know that they heavily depend on software packages for Windows to continue its success. If you look around you will find information you need, you can start here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/about/

should find and plug security holes and exploits in IE and in all the services that you are running out of the box that they can.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,177 6290,00.asp They are doing this, but as you can tell from looking at the security issues of other browsers (non of which even match the amount of users IE has) security in browsers is a hard one to beat. Because there is money to be made in Spyware/Adware, people will always find ways to 'sneak' in.

I predict even after MS forces people to run as non-admins, fix/improve security in IE, include an outgoing/ingoing firewall, and include an Anti-Virus and Spyware clients, people will still find way to get spyware/adware into the computer.

This isnt a rant against you (Just didnt like the two quotes I added to my reply), but to a lot of people who complain about MS security. If anyone doesnt think MS is trying to make computing more secure I'd like to know how they can do more.

People dont seem to understand the difference between MS and other server/desktop OSes

Ugh, so this will be the eighth version of Vista? Or the 21st version?

That's a nice out of context quote that doesn't actually specify what the patent covers. Did you not understand "royalty free"? Perhaps you should read this.

Or am I just spreading FUD?

Yes. The XML Schemas are freely downloadable, you don't have to sign anything. They are just patenting their own software implementation that processes those XML documents. You can still make your own implementaiton.

This reorg was laid out a month ago almost exactly as it happened:

If I Were Steve Ballmer


That lady is either very smart, psychic or someone at MS read her article. I'm guessing the later.

This reorg was laid out a month ago almost exactly as it happened:

If I Were Steve Ballmer


That lady is either very smart, psychic or someone at MS read her article. I'm guessing the later.

Just as you would not expect groups associated with Linux to be under any obligation to cater for Microsoft.

Hmm, they seem to:

Microsoft to Talk Unix Interop at LinuxWorld

Also, SFU 3.0 won "best system integration software" IIRC at LinuxWorld 2003.

Feels a bit like a one-way street...

Cheers
Stor

Why pity them? They will still be supported for another 6 years (9 if they want extended support). They just aren't releasing any new versions of it.

Even still, some of the next-gen SFU functionality is being integrated into Windows Server 2003 R2. It's not the end of unix interoperability from Microsoft, just this derivation of it.

The eWeek article is just a summary. The full story is here.

What does WinFS stand for? Windows File System or Windows Future Storage.

I've seen both in the media recently:
Future Storage - (example, example , example )
File System - (example, example).

But then when I looked a little more, I found this. Will this end up being something that is constantly being corrected on Slashdot? :)

http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_Heats_Gr id_Iron_with_Bigtop/1104374194
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,174 6291,00.asp

It may be on the back burner at MS for now, but as we've seen many times if they perceive a market they're missing out on they can throw enormous resources at a project to get it to market.

not only is this article's conclusion about Atom 100% intentially harmful misleading FUD bullshit, but the one shred of fact it initially appeared to be based on isn't even correct!

Vista will support BOTH FORMATS by the time it ships: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,183 6734,00.asp

Hemos and the "feed for all" people should all take dave winer's small, orange, not-well-formed cock out of their mouths and stop spreading lies.

• Won't get sued for patent infringement every again or
• Will bring the patent system to it's knees by their flood of ridiculous patents

Is this the same Sunbelt Software that did a study with the Yankee group that resulted in the claim that the TCO of Windows is less than that of Linux?

... it helps to go to a reliable source. I've found Microsoft Watch to be a good check on both flamers and fanboyz -- a good example in this case would be the article about this whole topic. Hype-free, it's like the anti-CNET.

Monad has been rumored to be out of Vista for quite a while:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,182 6007,00.asp?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535

If you read the text of the story from the MS guy, he never implies that it was removed b/c of security breaches. Oh wait, forgot about the /. filter.

We've known for over a month that Monad wasn't going to make it in Longhorn, aka Vista.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,182 6007,00.asp?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535

The real reason is that MS hasn't been able to get it to work well enough to put in there.

The fact that it's insecure is well... since when has Microsoft products ever been secure?? Like releasing insecure program has ever been a problem for them? in the past? I think not!

It's too bad in a way. If they had gotten to work, if it could be secure, well, I rather liked the ideas behind it. It certainly would have more useful than WinFS or a fancy-dancy new interface.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1826153,00.as p

Steven

"Only problem is, Monad is not included in the Windows Vista beta code."

It will probably not be included in the final Windows Vista code either.
It'll be a separate, downloadable tool for all MS OS'es since Windows XP.
I'm still looking for the connection to Windows Vista here...

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,182 6007,00.asp?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535

> The most obvious development birthed by this platform will be the absorption of routine. The Machine will take on anything we do more than twice. It will be the Anticipation Machine.

If that's true, then the "computer" will cease to be a computer. It will be a machine capable only of what the government, Intel, Microsoft, Hillary Clinton, Tipper Gore, RIAA, MPAA and $overdomineering_entity allows it to do. The user will not have control over the machine, as it will be programmed only to do what its makers consider it "authorized" to do. So much for managing your music, videos, or probably even most video games (since its content is too violent or sexual for Clinton).

I get furious with my OS X PowerMac when it tells me, "Sorry, you don't have permission to do that." OS9 never told me I "didn't have permission" to do things with my computer. If I screwed it up somehow, I'd have to fix it, but I'd rather not have the computer tell me what it is not going to allow me to do. With Microsoft's Palladium and other watchdog systems in place, this "anticipation machine" will be the most frustrating machine ever to resemble a computer.

"Computers and the programs will start thinking, and the people will stop." - Dr. Gibbs, TRON, 1982

She kids because she loves -- but seriously, Mary Jo Foley has usually been one of the best sources for MS info (though not a cheerleader for MS). For example, she has a good overview of what's what in Vista and IE 7.0.

The result of cooperation from some of the foremost institutions in education and science in the nation, the Giant Magellan Telescope stands to operate at a resolution 10 times larger than the Hubble. The project, set to be constructed in Chile, is slated for completion in 2016.

Microsoft Windows Vista will be released in 2017... Coincidence? I think nay. Maybe they will release "Universe Map", the Google Maps killer, as an integrated part of the new OS ?
Right now they try to market Microsoft Magellan as an Office application.

'Monad' Scripting Shell Unlikely to Debut in Longhorn

WinFS Axed From Longhorn Client and Server

Avalon faces axe as Microsoft dismembers Longhorn

Are we talking about the same operating system? And what does "native" even mean, in this context?

--grendel drago

'Monad' Scripting Shell Unlikely to Debut in Longhorn

WinFS Axed From Longhorn Client and Server

Avalon faces axe as Microsoft dismembers Longhorn

Are we talking about the same operating system? And what does "native" even mean, in this context?

--grendel drago

Until a recent career shift, I did pretty much the same thing. We ran IE 6x in Win2k under VirtualPC so we could check rendering behavior, but we coded to W3C standards and then tweaked to force IE to work properly.

According to some of the stories I've read (including this one), IE 7 *may* support full CSS2, but will probably only cover a subset of CSS2. Great. This is just what we all need - another incomplete implementation of CSS. What year is it?

Nope, Sorry. " Thursday, June 09, 2005 'Monad' Scripting Shell Unlikely to Debut in Longhorn

Seems you don't realize quite in how bad shape Longhorn is. It's quite likely that in the end this will be the recommended scripting language for .NET

Look at the Wiki's date guys. The Channel 9 page was updated late last year.

Since then, it's been revealed that Monad will not be in Longhorn--whenever the heck that will come out--but will show up in Exchange 12 say sometime in 2007.

Don't ask me what a command shell will be doing in an e-mail server.

For the details see the following article from: Mary Jo Foley's Microsoft Watch

From where I sit, Monad was a decent idea. With it gone, I see even less reason than before to upgrade to XP SP3, excuse me, Longhorn.

Steven

"Hilf is the director of Microsoft's platform technology strategy group....

Linux running at Microsoft? Isn't that sacrilege? Think of it <b>more as a competitive advantage</b>, said Hilf."

Quick background on Mako: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,176 4087,00.asp

Having previously been a contractor at Microsoft and being intimately familiar with the security setup of their online properties (Hotmail, passport, messenger, etc.) the dynamic systems protection area was one that would get the most play (and benefit) on the server side. Automagically monitoring system state and port management would be extremely useful if it was a part of the server OS.

Here's the news story.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,181 5438,00.asp

And, here's why I, anyway, think anorexic XP, aka Eiger, will only end up helping the acceptance of Linux desktops.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1815779,00.as p

Steven

With every release, FF gets bigger and bigger

Firefox 1.0.4 comes out at a whopping 5 megs for the windows version and 8 for the linux version. It's hardly big. If by big you mean feature bloat, then tell me what humongous load of features FF has added since 0.8. Lay out some facts yourself.

Yes memory usage isn't optimal, but considering that people (in my experience) usually have more FF tabs open than IE windows because it's easier to manage. Most people don't even notice it's taking up a lot of memory.

This is complete rumor. As yet, Microsoft has not made a committed response to this question. By the way, which version of CSS does FF support? What's the "latest" version? Hmmmm.

Microsoft isn't planning to go the whole way and make IE 7.0 fully CSS2 compliant...

And yes, no browser fully conforms to the CSS2 standard, but if you've ever done CSS you know that working it for IE has some serious headaches involved. I have no reason to believe that IE7 will be any different.

8 to 10% seems to be a ceiling. I predict it will not go much higher, if at all.

What ceiling? FF growth has been continuous. Or are you just being a troll?

Finally remembered the name of the product...PC Satisfaction. There are a few news articles on the web about it including this one regarding system performance. My wife and kids nearly killed me for testing it on our home PC as it was such a resource hog. Late in the beta it got a little bit better but then they decided to shelve the product. I'd guess that they took what they learned in that beta and applied it to the AntiSpyware and upcoming antivirus programs.

Search: Tiger will feature a built-in local search technology called "Spotlight" (technology built upon the search engines that Apple currently uses to search iTunes and e-mail). Microsoft has said it plans to offer a similar local-machine search engine for Longhorn that will be based on the company's Windows File System (WinFS) technology.

Scripting:Tiger will include a front-end scripting environment known as "Automator." Longhorn will include a new scripting shell (currently in beta test) known as "Monad."

Built-in RSS support: Tiger will embed an RSS aggregator into the Safari browser. Longhorn will include an embedded RSS feature in the user interface.

Info-Display Panel: Tiger will have an information-display capability called "Dashboard." Longhorn will have an information-display panel called "Sideshow," to which users can "pin" collections of items of interest.

Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Tiger will feature a souped-up version of iChat. Microsoft will embed Windows Messenger (a sister to MSN Messenger), which also will likely feature video-chat.

64-Bit Support: Tiger will include extended 64-bit capabilities. Longhorn allegedly will be optimized for 64-bit systems.

As many an Apple advocate has pointed out, Tiger is set to debut at least a year before Longhorn. That's a pretty significant head start, especially for folks who have no corporate edicts, application constraints or other limitations on which hardware/software platform they choose.

Like, say, Microsoft developing their own Flash-like product? Something such as Sparkle?

mainstream support for 2k pro and server expires on June 30, 2005. They're supposed to release an Update Rollup pretty soon, instead of a full blown (bloat) service pack 5. I'm guessing it'll come out around the end of May, beginning of June.

I was just reading about WinFS being back-ported to XP and 2k3 server. Dunno, but that seems like we won't be herded into upgrades as forcefully as it initially appeared before indigo and avalon were backported.

SCO Warns Linux Community, Gets Payments from Microsoft and Microsoft Payments to SCO: $8 Million and Counting

You were saying???

From the full story @ MicrosoftWatch:
McLaws, who runs the Longhornblogs network, said a lot of "extra time and resources" had to be expended to make the site render the same way on all Web browsers.

Now this shows how M$ responsibly cares indeed about having people employed. Hmm, they probably think overtime.

CC.