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Why would someone purposely subject themselves to the abomination that is .pst ?

To update to Thunderbird, or Pronto like I use. It's particularly useful for business users wanting to migrate off Outlook and have access to a decent code monkey.

"Opera had it long before any other browser, so I had my hackles up when this popped up in the RSS feed."

No it didn't, Netcaptor did. And if you search google groups you'll see people asking for tabbed browsing in Mozilla like in Netcaptor. Not Opera. Opera didn't have true tabbed browsing until after a few others had implemented it (Skipstone, Galeon, Mozilla). For a start, at which point in Opera could you have multiple windows with multiple tabs in them, rather than the fairly typical MDI interface they had?

Does anybody know the status of Skipstone? It's a Mozilla based browser that's much lighter than Firefox, but development seems to have stalled.

If about config doesn't work use the gtk2 theme switcher. If you get version 2 it can set gtk2 themes and then any gtk/gnome app you have will match KDE (more or less). Germetick matches Kermetic, etc ...

But its been a long time since I've run KDE so things might be different ...

Her machine had 32 megs of RAM and a P166 MMX processor.

As it turned out, Windows 95 plus Internet Explorer ran blazing rings around Debian Linux plus Mozilla, which was almost unusable, even after I switched her over to icewm and rxvt rather than the much heavier KDE environment. Eventually I found Skipstone, which made her machine usable again, but only barely. To be quite honest, there is no Linux/browser combination that compares with the performance Windows 95/Internet Explorer can offer on that class of hardware, and there's no good reason to throw away a perfectly nice older laptop.

Eventually, though, she upgraded to a Dell Latitude XPi which runs Linux much more comfortably -- although I still switched her to icewm and streamlined her startup drastically to get a reasonable boot time.

The mozilla.org tarballs don't include the development headers. The RPM packages do. If you want to compile Epiphany, Galeon, Skipstone, or one of the other fine gecko-based browsers, you have to have these installed. The alternative, if you don't want to use the packages, is to either compile mozilla from scratch also (fine if you have 12 hours or so free), or pick the relevant parts out of the mozilla source tree and manually install them somewhere yourself. Of course, you can install any of the above browsers from binary packages...but these will have a dependency on the RPMs for Mozilla, so you will have to have them installed then too unless you want to break your distribution's package system.

Not to mention the fact that the Mozilla binary releases usually have a lowest-common-denominator feature set enabled, and are unlikely to have support for Xft, or GTK 2.x, etc.

I believe there are efforts for "native" parts of Mozilla's browser on several platforms. Windows has K-Meleon, Linux has Galeon (GNOME) and Skipstone (GTK) and MacOS X has Chimera.

Skipstone,
uses GTK+ for interface, and Phoenix, a slimmed-down Mozilla, but still using XUL for the interface. There used to be a project named K-Meleon, aimed at creating a native win32 browser based on Gecko, but I haven' been able to access their site for ages now.

This is why they are working on a fully modular implementation for 0.5, so that you can get the browser, only the browser, but also get mail and news if you want it, and maybe those who like Chatzilla can get that, too.

In a way I think that Phoenix is a great idea - I've always wondered why Mozilla needed to be so huge and slow compared to my old favorite Opera. However, I can't help but think it's really Skipstone done rong. If they're trashing Mozilla compatibility for speed, why keep XUL? I love GTK+ and I think Skipstone makes for a great browser, although it does need some bugs fixed, and it's still too big. I think Dillo is for me, but not functional enough to be usable.

BTW I ran into a really annoying bug with Mozilla's mail client (1.1) the other day. Some of my accounts can't send mail because Mozilla ``can't find SMTP server %S''. Changing things in the accout setting didn't help, so I edited my prefs.js by hand (I had only one SMTP server configured, so I just did a s/smtp[0-9]/smtp1/g. This fixed the problem for a while, then it reappeared. I edited my prefs.js again, and now the mail client allocates outrageous amounts of memory on startup (hundreds of megabytes). I can't really file a bug report because I don't know what triggers either bug, can anybody help me?

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One day, authors will be judged by the content of their sites, and not the color of their characters.

How come nobody *ever* mentions skipstone? It, in my opinion, is better than galeon because it lacks the gnome cruft (especially frustrating on machines where gnome isn't installed, and since galeon requires many pieces of it, you're eating up loads of disk space for just a browser)

And taking things to their logical conclusion, Skipstone is Galeon without all the bloat. I used to have really high hopes for Galeon, but their dependencies on bleeding edge versions of countless Gnome libraries make it nearly impossible to install on anything that isn't running Ximian.

Well. My solution for storing ALOT of BIG email but still browsing fast is to use MySQL. My mail client is Pronto! (written by Muhri, in perl, gtk, etc).. I have several 10's of thousands emails in about 10 different folders. Reaction time is immediate and searching is pretty damn quick aswell.
The mysql server is at work, and I can view my mail from anywhere simply by pointing my client at my IP. Presto.

I'm also slowly writing a MySQL-based IMAP server which will hopefully be compatible with Pronto!... But as with so many projects, itl probably take some time to complete...

David

According to SkipStone's news page - it had tabbed browsing since its version .6 in october of 2001 - now thats a long time ago! i dont see whats the big deal with nutcrap getting it!Also, gecko gtk browsers are lightning fast compared to Mozilla/Netscape

Tabs are a nice idea, but they're still quite immature in Mozilla. For instance, they don't close in the correct order, so they're no substitute for real tabs or MDI, as found in Galeon or Opera.

I accept that Mozilla is still in development, but many good ideas that make the GUI work better (like this one) are actually being turned down.

Something else that reminds me of this is there is no Apply button in the Themes Preferences dialog box.

I'm getting into many bad habits using Mozilla's interface, and when I go to use something that works properly I find myself doing what I would've done in Mozilla, and it doesn't work (and nor should it). It's a bit like people who double-click on web links. :-)

It seems to me that Mozilla's GUI is made to pacify Netscape 4 users, rather than making it as usable as it should be. I think this is bad for several reasons, not least because Netscape 6 still has a smaller market share than Netscape 4, so Netscape 4 users aren't migrating at all! To me this means that:
a) some users are sticking with Netscape 4
b) some users are moving to Internet Explorer or something else, because they're better, regardless of the menus being somewhat different

Maybe this shows us that open-source projects really need to spend more time on proper GUI guidelines, because as much as I hate products made by certain other companies (that one that makes Windows in particular), I find their apps much easier to use (when they don't crash, etc.).

I think I'm going to end up using Galeon or SkipStone, because the Mozilla rendering engine seems quite good -- it's the GUI holding Mozilla back (regardless of how pretty the "Modern" theme is!).

Having said this, I'm still downloading 0.9.9 :-)

What I would do is compile a stripped down kernel, use busybox for most system apps, and have your init scripts call the tinyX server and then instead of using a window manager have the startx script start galeon in full screen mode using tabs instead of separate windows for popups. The only difficult part may be getting mozilla or galeon compiled because of the gtk requirements) You could try the Xlib mozilla port perhaps.

For a little bit of info on how I have done a similar project take a look at my linux on a floppy page.

Anyway, what I want to do is run linux on my k6-2 333 or heaven forbid my p1-100 and still be able to browse the web.

This is what I like the most about open source software; the diversity that is a natural consequence of the open-source model has resulted in a number of browsers:

• Mozilla
• Galeon
• Konqueror
• SkipStone

There are also some proprietary browsers:

• Netscape. All of the browsers can be freely downloaded, and Netscape Communicator will work fine on the Pentium 100 machine.
• Opera

- Sam

and Galeon is the lightest Gecko based browser that I can find.
Well, seems like you need to find SkipStone, then. It's the Gecko engine packaged up using only GTK+ widgets, no GNOME. It's pretty nice.

You're right, Skipstone's news page is just out of date. Looked like there hadn't been a release since June. Apologies.

May I add that SkipStone is not dead, I'm a big fan of SkipStone, I use both Galeon and SkipStone but I dont like the direction Galeon headed towards lately before the 1.0 release - Thier focus seem to have changed .. Anyhow, The point is SkipStone is not dead and it had a release a couple of weeks ago and is continously being worked on in the CVS repository, check your facts first buddy. Url for SkipStone

"Galeon -- the GTK+ web browser based on Mozilla's rendering engine, gecko -- has been released"

Folks, Galeon is a GNOME web browser, can we start making the distinction? There is a differance, SkipStone afaik is the Gtk+ web browser and does not depend on any Gnome lib.

I challange you to provide a working link to the skipstone home. Went to here and it is a dead site.

I just wanted to clarify things a bit here as the reason Pronto broke was not Perl related. It was because Gtk+ (Which I depend on it for sorting) used alpha numeric sorts. I just replaced the default Gtk+ sort routines with my own PERL sort routine and its fixed.

PS, What can I do to get my nickname muhri back? I changed my email since the last time I logged onto slashdot and now I can't seem to get it to mail me my password, I feel like a hotmail user hehe, muhri2!!

Thats most probably due to the program using the autosort routines from KDE or QT where they do alphanumeric sorts on a numeric field where the 99 timestamp will be bigger than the 10xxx stamp. Gtk+ proggies like Pronto! also suffered from the same problem but was fixed by hooking a different sort function that distinguishes numeric fields from alpha fields.

• Opera
• Konqueror
• Mozilla
• Galeon
• Skipstone
• Netscape

The article did not review a number of browsers. Here are a some more that you may want to try:

• Arena
• Amaya
• Chimera
• MMM
• Emacs/W3
• Lynx (text based)
• Links (text based)
• Debris (text based)
• w3m (text based)
• Libwww (text/line based)
• HowJava
• Express
• Armadillo (was Gzilla)
• Mnemonic
• Kde (file manager with builtin browser)
• mMosaic
• QtMozilla
• QWeb
• Mosaic
• Arachne
• Beest
• Beonex
• BrowseX
• Grail
• Dillo
• NetRaider

And how the disclaimers: The list above by no means complete. The browers above were listed in j-random order. Some browsers are in early alpha stage, some in Beta and others are in full release. Some of the browsers may suck, some are OK and some are good. Your mileage may vary. Sorry If I left out your favorite browser. IE was left off the list for obvious reasons. Good while supply lasts or until Bill Gates takes over. I'm not a member of the FCIA. Void where cast as (void).

I'm interested in browsers that embed mozilla since Netscape Navigator IMHO should die, Mozilla itself is nice but no thanks for the interface. I keep updating my copies of both Galeon and SkipStone and I must say that both of those browsers rock, wether interface or browsing. First of all, Galeon looks great, all Gtk+ apps imho look great, and who said you can't change the default grey icons of SkipStone, SkipStone has been themeable for as long as I can remember, visit SkipStone's theme page| to see what I'm talking about. Both browsers also support tabbed browsing which is great.. SkipStone recently introduced a plugin API that you can use to write cool plugins, the source package includes some examples too, Galeon and SkipStone both offer comprable performance imho though on my laptop I solely run SkipStone cause I really dont want to install the requirements for GNOME due to disk requirements. I think everybody with a *nix box should try both, Galeon and SkipStone. SkipStone is currently at 0.7.5 and Galeon at 0.12pre I think.. I wonder what versions he used (including the mozilla version) cause both browsers havent crashed since 0.9.1 at least in my machine (and I do browse SlashDot) I never crashed on a slashdot page using either.

I'm interested in browsers that embed mozilla since Netscape Navigator IMHO should die, Mozilla itself is nice but no thanks for the interface. I keep updating my copies of both Galeon and SkipStone and I must say that both of those browsers rock, wether interface or browsing. First of all, Galeon looks great, all Gtk+ apps imho look great, and who said you can't change the default grey icons of SkipStone, SkipStone has been themeable for as long as I can remember, visit SkipStone's theme page| to see what I'm talking about. Both browsers also support tabbed browsing which is great.. SkipStone recently introduced a plugin API that you can use to write cool plugins, the source package includes some examples too, Galeon and SkipStone both offer comprable performance imho though on my laptop I solely run SkipStone cause I really dont want to install the requirements for GNOME due to disk requirements. I think everybody with a *nix box should try both, Galeon and SkipStone. SkipStone is currently at 0.7.5 and Galeon at 0.12pre I think.. I wonder what versions he used (including the mozilla version) cause both browsers havent crashed since 0.9.1 at least in my machine (and I do browse SlashDot) I never crashed on a slashdot page using either.

Of course, if you don't like the icons, you can always contribute your own!

Galeon also depends on a lot of GNOME bloat. If you want a truely lean and mean browser, give Skipstone a try. I have to admit, that it is not quite as feature rich as Galeon (I loved the automatic bookmarking) but it is really fast and works amazingly well even on RAM-challenged machines (I have 32MB which makes running Mozilla a pain but is more than plenty for Skippy).

Yeah, on my P5@200MHz, Mozilla is *slow*. I don't have IE, but if you want a fast browser on UNIX, try Galeon or SkipStone; they both use Mozilla's embedded rendering component, and esp. the latter is nearly as fast as Lynx (really! ;)

I say : As a maintenance tool for low end boxes.

(Such as, say, the old PPC I use as a gateway to the net. 3 years old, 180 MHz, 32 meg RAM.)

On such a machine, you need something to

1. Browse local help pages;* **
2. Search the web for code and rpms;
3. Download these onto the machine.

* Bonus if it can read man and info pages, (like gnome-help-browser).
** Double bonus if it supports find string on page (unlike g-h-b).

Skipstone is nice (uses gecko and fewer gnome libs than galeon), but I found it still memory hungry and a quite bit slower than g-h-b, or legacy Netscape for Mac on the same hardware.

(The one I tried compiled against Mozilla 0.9. Although there may be good progress since, I wonder if gecko may just not be lean enough... Moz 0.9.2 is still a big memory hog on my other machine -- like 50 meg after a little browsing, where legacy Netscape would stay around 30.)

Encompass uses gtkhtml instead. Can anyone comment on it? Will it do (1), (2) and (3) above? I still need to figure out exactly what dependencies it needs to compile. Anyway, it seems promising -- see this review and some more recent news.

I have found another GTK+ browser named Skipstone also based on Gecko.

How not had a chance to use it yet.

Concentrate on making a small fast browser! Not mail/news/irc/aim/shopping.

And when it lacks mail/news/irc (aim and shopping are Nutscrape/AOHell addons), people bitch and complain that it doesn't have all the functionality of IE (aside from the IRC, which isn't something the entire devteam is sweating over), so why should they use it, especially if it takes another year or so to get those functions in? If you want pure browsing, I point thee to Galeon, Skipstone, or K-Meleon.

Works fine from here.

http://www.muhri.net/skipstone, it's a pure GTK+(No gnome libs) browser using the Mozilla renderer
treke
Fame is a vapor; popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion.

I love browsing in Linux/Unix more than Windows for one reason: the middle mouse button for clicking on links. In case you don't know, the middle button will open a link in a new window, which allows for browsing in a more tree-like fashion, branching off in different directions. I realize you can do this in windows with a right-click and a left-click, but when you know you could do it in one middle-click, it's not the same. It takes too long.

Now, what does this have to do with tabbed mode? Well, with tabbed mode turned on, when you middle click on a link, instead of opening in the link up in a new window, it gets opened up in a new tab in the current window. It works just like a notebook (well like a GtkNotebook, anyway). It's a bit faster than using new windows everytime, and much easier to work with, IMO.

Skipstone actually had this before Galeon and I assume this is where Galeon got the idea from. Tabbed mode is why I was using Skipstone, but now that Galeon has picked it up and added an easier way to close each tab, Galeon is my browser of choice.

Here's a picture of Skipstone in tabbed mode to give you an idea of what it looks like, in case you're curious. The tabs are right above the navigation icons.

I love browsing in Linux/Unix more than Windows for one reason: the middle mouse button for clicking on links. In case you don't know, the middle button will open a link in a new window, which allows for browsing in a more tree-like fashion, branching off in different directions. I realize you can do this in windows with a right-click and a left-click, but when you know you could do it in one middle-click, it's not the same. It takes too long.

Now, what does this have to do with tabbed mode? Well, with tabbed mode turned on, when you middle click on a link, instead of opening in the link up in a new window, it gets opened up in a new tab in the current window. It works just like a notebook (well like a GtkNotebook, anyway). It's a bit faster than using new windows everytime, and much easier to work with, IMO.

Skipstone actually had this before Galeon and I assume this is where Galeon got the idea from. Tabbed mode is why I was using Skipstone, but now that Galeon has picked it up and added an easier way to close each tab, Galeon is my browser of choice.

Here's a picture of Skipstone in tabbed mode to give you an idea of what it looks like, in case you're curious. The tabs are right above the navigation icons.

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Its written in perl, and uses the GTK bindings, so you may have to download a few things to get it to work, but the install script takes care of this for you.

I don't know why it has to be done like this. I'm pretty sure GTK apps can specify their own theme and have GTK draw (once!) using that rather than drawing on top of what GTK has already drawn. Perhaps someone can offer an explanation.

You might want to checkout some browsers that use Mozilla's rendering engine and straight GTK for the interface instead of Mozilla's XPFE. Galeon and SkipStone are two examples, but unfortunately I find they crash a lot more than Mozilla.
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A little more detail:
The goal of the project is to create a small footprint web browser that uses the gecko core. So tada! I think thats what you are looking for!

Not when there's been no activity on it for over a year! get real dude. If express were in real competition, there'd be a LOT more development going on.
Instead, maybe Galeon, or Skipstone (a web browser written in Perl) would be better choices.

With the creation of the mozilla-gtk widget many new mozilla-likes have sprouted up, but i think Skipstone may be one of the greatest of lightweight browsers. (Of course a full mozilla/netscape session is needed for SSL or other features)

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