Slashdot Mirror
Mozilla Heading to Mobiles
mu22le writes "CNET News.com has an interview with Doug Turner, the project leader of Minimo, the version of Mozilla for small devices. The article (also commented upon at mozillazine) roams from the challenges a small devices browser presents to the competition with Opera for Mobile. Brace yourself for the forthcoming Minimo 0.3, due in January."
Sigs cause cancer.
Blazer, the browser that comes installed with the Treo 650 smartphones, is usable, but I have had some stability issues with it and there are a few quirks here and there. Having the option of a Mozilla based browser on something like the 650 would be a blessing, especially considering the costs of many Palm applications.
This is my first Palm, and to get it to do the really interesting things you have to spend 29.95 on this application, 39.95 on that, etc. After spending as much money on a Smartphone, I am hesitant to shell out more money for expensive applications. Heck, I am unwillingly. (Lets not mention bluetooth accessories)
The CNET interview makes it sound like the Minimo team knows how to make a worthwhile portable browser that I would immediately jump to. Shrinking the unimportant images, zooming in and out quickly on a page, and providing better support for Javascript and frames can only be steps in the right direction for small browsers.
I didn't see Palm mentioned in the article, so its only a hope. If this wouldn't work on Palm based devices, I wonder if Palms latest linux initiative rumblings would eventually lead to compatibility down the road? Tabbed browsing on the crisp 650 display would be nice.
Now if I just use one of my micro mobile devices for browsing the web...
My cellphone, my pda, hell probably my digital camera can probably get on the Internet. But if you think I'm browsing webpages on that kind of screen your nuts.
My hats off Doug Turner and to the guys programming Minimo but I just don't browse the web on my micro devices. I use them for their other features.
-Teiresias
Anyone else read that header and think of the mobile you'd hang over a crib? (pronounced Moe-Beel)??
"I have an odd craving to whisper about those few frightful hours in that ill-rumored and evilly shadowed seaport of dea
"Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream!"
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
32 to 64 megs is lightweight?
Man that seems like a pretty heavy memory requirement.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I hate to say this, but at the moment minimo is nowhere near being able to compete with opera. Opera is really, really nice on embedded devices, and I can't see it being replaced on any but the cheapest devices any time soon.
I am trolling
I need this for my desktop. Firefox is pretty heavyweight. Currently it takes 133MB of ram. If they reduce this by half I can put it on smaller computers.
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
Or some other aptly named mini-version of Thunderbird for a handheld. I care much more about being able to synching my mail and calendar to my PDA via a bluetooth or wifi connection than I do about browsing the web. And enough with HotSynch already - now that these toys are wifi enabled, let's use regular file transfer methods and regular mail protocols to transfer this information - as if it were a hand sized laptop...
You gotta make something explode to really understand it...examine all those tiny particles while they're still on fire.
Incidentally, if you're doing something like that, be sure to check into gtkmozembed. It encapsulates all the XPCOM stuff, so all you have to do is include it and do a:It's a real timesaver.
The Army reading list
To my knowledge, Opera hasn't patented tabbed browsing or mouse gestures. Am I wrong?
It sounds like they would need to port GTK to all those platforms too. Good luck. Porting is a good concept, but usually you need to rewrite it anyway in order to get good performance. Thats what Opera and IE did.
The biggest problem with using the sidekick on non-mobile pages is how much longer rendering/downloading takes for sites heavy with ads. The proxies should be filtering these out. Its not like anyone is losing money, as they're next to impossible to read on my tiny screen and if the mobile people think people are buying stuff from banners ads on mobile devices, then they're just fooling themselves.
Only thing I can view on my phone are sites that support the WAP... which sucks, considering many sites (/., even? If there is, I haven't found it) don't have one.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
bash$ ln -s lynx minimo
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Opera gestures where copied from the game Black&White, so I kind of doubt they got a valid patent.
;-)
Also, the gestures are a plugin to FireFox. So anyone could distribute them separately.
OT to this thread, is 32MB required really minimal enough for a device? Sounds like it might barely run on my old PC
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
And here I thought that Firefox was the streamlined mini browser of choice.
How long before all the geeks are using Minimo and proclaiming firefox as bloatware?
He who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man. He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a fool.
...how about finishing roaming profile support?
...sigh...
Come on folks, it was built into Netscape 4.7, why is it so hard to build it into Firefox and the Suite?
Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Allow me to be the first to say:
You, sir, are an ass monkey.
feh. stuff.
I seriously doubt Opera could patent tabbed browsing. It's not anything new, applications have had tabs for ages.
Even the slickest small, embedded browsers will struggle in the marketplace until more sites support small-screen browsable content.
Sites with scheduling content (movie times, game schedules etc.) would be ideal, but there's not enough of that out there to drive the popularity of these browsers up yet.
I'm sure the day will come though...
Could you please provide the patent numbers? I tried to search, but couldn't find one from USPTO
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
http://www.austinpowers.com/minime/minime.htm
Just stick with IE, people
Not on Pocket PC. PIE--to say it kindly--is a pile of shit. Seriously, if you don't agree you probably haven't tried it. Ever notice the number of competing browsers available for PPC devices?
In my experience, the first thing a *serious* PPC user will do is buy a real browser.
First they get their market on the desktop eaten so they make an excellent mobile product that's worth the money. Now they are facing (in a decade or so when Mozilla finishes development... they aren't the speediest at new products) getting that market wiped out too. I don't mind seeing it happen to companies like Microsoft but it seems a little hard on Opera who have this far been nothing but nice*.
:o)
So, whilst I am looking forward to seeing what Moilla can do, I wish the Opera guys all the best and hope that the money they made in the mobile market lets them develop something spectacular to keep them going until the commodity stuff catches up again
*Do you see any lawsuits? Threats? Whining? Almost unbelievable in this day and age.
Beep beep.
Not that Opera was first. There have been plugins to do the same across the desktop for years (strokeit's been around for at least 6 years).
What, so they can be the next company with a failed business model or lack of flowing funds to try and take down everyone in the field just b/c they cant cut it anymore?
Face it, if someone takes what your doing, improves on it and then everyone starts using it - you're fucked.
*gasp* what if the pop-up advertizing companies bought out the pop-up-blocking patents??
Stop humping the laser!
Fleur de Sel
Gestures have been available in 3D cad programs for eons now. Way before you saw them in opera/black and white.
Yes Ill bite. But the main difference between say Dvorak Keyboards and Mozilla is the amount of time it takes to switch. Switching to IE to Mozilla besides the install time is rather short and using Mozilla is not much of a stretch to use. Vs. Switching keyboard styles. It take a lot of practice to change your typing behavior because you put a lot of time learning to type in that method. And typing is more of a reflex action. Plus the amount of characters you type are more mental action then using a web browser thus making learning devorak no matter how good much harder to grasp then switching a web browser.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Well, OSS is essentially a "race to the bottom" to see who can devalue the software market the most. Even a superior "non-free" (as in beer) version cannot survive since most people will choose the free version to save a few bucks. Others will simply pirate the non-free version since the free version has established (in their minds) that the cost for such type of software should be zero.
After since these Mozilla folks can give it away for free, why shouldn't the Opera folks? It doesn't matter that the pay version may be better. It is simply a race to the bottom and frequently results in cheap "free" copies ruining the chance for quality comercial software.
Actually it's a race to the BUTTON!
Opera has to be the browser with the most buttons! Have you ever seen a more complicated user interface? A new user gets like a 100 different choices on the first startup.
Minimo was introduced 10 months ago (previous mention). It takes a long time for people on the mainstream media to pick a story :0
Anyway, their site says "The primary focus of Minimo to date has been system with ~32-64 MB of RAM, running Linux and using the GTK toolkit". Think that the latest Nokia based on Symbian OS 8.0 comes with only 7MB available, and most Pocket PC come with 64MB (sometimes only 50MB available after all loaded). This browser needs to be at most 5MB to be usable. Try using Access Netfront instead. They have embbeded browsers for a variety of platforms.
On my machine firefox takes up 3000 bajillion million megabytes of memory! I think it's cause I let the aliens use my machine when I'm not around.
a.k.a., konqueror.
:(
*ducks!*
But seriously folks, you'd probably do better to start with links, w3m, arachne, dillo, Contiki, HyperLink, The Wave -- any codebase that was designed to be relatively lightweight from the start. Or, especially in the case of the last three, probably just write a new one.
Now on my desktop, I use konqueror because it's snappy; of course the mobile device game is totally different, but I'd expect that people would want some of the same things--notably, a responsive, un-bloated browser.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I mean, if Mozilla can be ported to the Amiga, surely I can run it on my shiny new Treo 650. :)
Why bother.
Having a Mozilla for HTML pages in the PDA is great.
:-)
Opera might have to refocus, there's a huge window of opportunity for Rich Clients/Smart Client browsers and nobody is really addressing all the challenges ahead, not even Microsoft.
Mozilla could have already done this a long time ago with XUL, but they suck at marketing, they're not positioning themselves well, Firefox is only a web browser, it's cool, it has widespread attention now, but it's still used and marketed for HTML, that's not where the future is.
Mozilla suffers again from market blindness.
Another problem for Mozilla: it is too hard to create new widgets for Mozilla and it doesn't seem likely this will change before Longhorn is out.
Macromedia Flash is sort-of-addressing this, and they have ubiquity on their side.
Apple could really make a difference here, they are everywhere with the iPod and they have Safari.
Anyway, it's an amazing landscape to watch and I love it
"Ooooh, it doesn't work for me, I can't be bothered to read the fricking docs and figure out how to make it work, it's trash and you shouldn't use it.. "
feh. stuff.
Not many. The two ones are Thunderhawk (a server based compression with a client) and Access Netfront (Javascript, JVM, CSS). Netfront is in my opinion the best one on the Windows Mobile platform.
Netfront is also used as the engine behind the browser supplied with Palm OS.
Can you expand on what you did to cause the user account or computer to basicly be wiped and started from scratch?
In the few years I have used Mozilla I have never had any problems like that and I am currious as to what you have done differnet?
(About the only problem I have had is that it seems to randomly crash after I have had it open for more than a week, older versions being worse than than the newer versions)
You say people use different software to be different.
You got a twisted and narrow world-perspective boy!
If you like IE so much then stay with it. What harm do these OSS-people do to you? They do not force you to use their software.
OSS-programmers use their knowledge and free time to help people compute safely and free all around the world.
If a billion Mac and Windows users are right, they will soon switch to some alternative browser too. Just like millions before them.
And remember, what the masses do or vote for is not always the best.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Not Minime? Hopefully it's just as fierce. Smash the competition baby yeah!
-- Cheers!
I've got a Loox 720, which has a fabulous VGA screen. Except, it may as well not have one, because everything is just double the size for compatibility's sake. PocketIE just doubles the size of all graphics, making web browsing a real chore on non-mobile-optimised sites. There's a workaround, that involves using SEVGA or OzVGA to eliminate this pixel-doubling, but that breaks a lot of applications, and just looks ugly in others. Better support for VGA devices is crucial if whatever's left of the market is going to go anywhere, as the increased resolution adds so much functionality to these devices - web browsing, email, even Office functionality such as viewing spreadsheets becomes feasible. MS really dropped the ball here. Has anyone had any luck with other apps? I'm using PIE with MultiIE, which is a great addon, but it's annoying having to soft reset every time I want to do some web browsing.
This comment was formatted for readability, but I forgot the line break tags
To whoever modded that comment up:
I salute you.
This doesn't look at all like it can compare to Opera. Opera's strength is in its extremely intelligent rendering for small screens. Minimo really is just slimmed down Mozilla. You can make it small enough to fit on a mobile device, but it won't render nearly as well for a small screen.
To really make Mozilla functional for mobile devices the work needs to be done in the gecko engine itself, allowing it to render differently for small screens. Without an equivelent to Opera's SSR Mozilla for mobile devices won't go anywhere. And at the moment, Mozilla is ages behind Opera in accessibility areas such as that.
We can be ported to many platforms that Opera can't
Opera has been ported to Linux, cell phones, PDAs and embedded devices. What platform is he refering to when he says Opera can't be ported to it?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
No no.. he's an anal dwelling butt monkey... ;)
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
I haven't seen this anywhere, but how much work would it take http://www.dillo.org/ to run on a mobile device?
Straight from their page:
# Dillo is small: source is less than 400 KB, and the binary is around 350 KB !
# Dillo aims to be a multi-platform browser alternative that's small, stable, developer-friendly, usable, fast, and extensible.
I don't do much coding, but wouldn't it be trivial to take such a small code base and use it for the phone or pda? They have it available for the iPaq here It looks like clean code to me. just a thought.
there's this little cage for you called "OS/X" ... whose default browser is Internet Explorer.
You're probably trolling but did you mean MacOS X? If so the default browser has been Safari for some time. Also, I think you underestimate the world's dislike of America right now. IE will die in the next 10 years if only because it comes from an American company.
I've set up pages using the @media rules for handhelds in order to alter the layout of pages for these devices. However, they don't work in the handhelds I tested (at least that was the case months back). Hopefully this browser will work with these media rules...
How long until we get Linux and Minimo on my Nintendo DS ;)
konqueror embedded is only about 2mb! opera is abou 3mb. Both are extremly fast on Qtopia based handhelds. I dont think there is a need for mozilla. In fact, GPE and X based handhelds already have Dillio
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
It wasn't quite the same lately. sigh.
Last time I checked my Macs default browser was Safari, and default mail app was.. er... mail.app. Okay, IE did come bundled with it because I'm sure there are some icky pages out there that will not render in Safari.
The first thing I did with my "cage" of an OS is install Firefox and Tbird, though I still use Safari from time to time for a change.
On my Windows Box I use Firefox only, with TBird and Gmail for email. Sure IE came bundled with it, but that doesn't actually mean anything except Microsoft promoting there own self interest, that does not mean that it is a usable, safe, freindly, product.
Great, so we must resort to the tyranny of the masses, since when have the masses been right? I doubt, and have some empirical data to back this, that most IE users would use IE is they were given, or knew of, a proper choice.
I really don't believe that you said "standard" and IE in the same sentence. IE doesn't like standards, it likes breaking them.
I don't think that the browser (or OS) question has anything to do with being different. It has to do with personal preference. I'm sure your against that as well, but that is one of the great things of the post industrial age, we can CHOOSE what product fits us. Right now I have 3 flavors of OS running on 2 boxes, and I like each of them for different reasons and applications. How is this being different? Well, as I see it I am more tech savvy than the average dude with a Dell, and thus my preferences are more sophisticated being that I know better what is out there, and better how to use it.
It's like telling people to stick with a $5.00 Cabernet, because that is what most people drink for dinner, and is a good enough standard. It's all a matter of taste. You go drink your Julio Brothers, I'm sure you enjoy it, but someone drinking a nice merlot doesn't hurt you, now, does it? Me running FF doesn't either. Relax, and make sure to virus scan, you could be a risk to us all.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
I dont want to pay $500 for a pda when something like this could run on a $100 one.
http://www.dillo.org/
I like mozilla but its not the right platform for all problems. Just try it on your desktop and you will see what I mean.
I installed it. Then, I went into the preferences and tried to set it up the way I wanted. When I finished, the browser got all weird on me, and the hard drive started to grind as if to destroy the surface of its platters. I tried to reboot, but whenever the user account came up, before even trying to launch Mozilla, the hard drive would begin to grind as described above. The computer would become slow and unresponsive, and it would be impossible even to kill the process.
On another occasion, a bunch of files disappeared mysteriously.
To make a long story short, each time I tried to install this thing, something BAD would happen.
Well, I do. This comment is posted with a Nokia 6810. The screen is tiny and the keyboard too, but slashdot works. I also pounded out a few PHP scrips to search the corporate phonelist, to work on my blog and to keep an eye on my server. The XHTML browser on the Nokia isn't great, but I guess this Mozilla version won't fit in the 2.5 megs that this phone has.
The MozillaMobile? Would that look anything like the BatMobile?
Will this move force opera to start enforcing patents to preserve it's existance?
No, but when IE gets tabbed browsing, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft patents it.
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
In addition to not being the first company to come up with those ideas, Opera as a company is also against software patents.
So,
Plucker is the only open source thing that Palm OS has for a web browser, and it's offline only?
Maybe I should pay money for Avantgo.
And enough with HotSynch already - now that these toys are wifi enabled, let's use regular file transfer methods and regular mail protocols to transfer this information - as if it were a hand sized laptop...
I think HotSync is arguably the killer app of the palmtop. I program for a living, but do I back up my data properly? Are you kidding? (Um, is my boss reading? n/p, she doesn't back up either)
But my Palm Pilot gets backed up daily, sometimes several times a day, because all I have to do is set it in its cradle and push the button. Poof, instant backup! And it's easy enough for non-techies to do.
Plus, it makes buying a new Palm a snap... sync new unit and it has (pretty much) everything the old one did. Full Reset on old unit and it's ready for eBay (or handmedown to the kids).
But I'm with a previous poster... if I need to get online, I'll use a computer with a screen that's larger than a notecard, thanks.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
How has Opera abandoned the desktop?
The 7 series has had significant development and innovation over it's lifetime and continues to do so.
Opera already _is_ a small and efficient browser despite having a mail/news and irc client built in. If you don't want to use those clients they just keep out of your way.
Many of the changes in the current 7.6 beta are specifically to make it more attractive and easy to understand for new customers.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Firefox runs ok, but anything lighter on an old 266MHz machine that only has 64Meg of ram is welcome.
Mozilla has worked hard to create a cross-platform user interface developement platform.
Basicly instead of porting Mozilla to all the platforms and having many different versions of the UI that need to be kept similar across multiple platforms they wrote a programming interface that can be used to create one UI that can be made to work on all platforms that Mozilla exists on.
For instance I can use XUL (Mozilla's XML-based programming language) to create front ends to my applications that use standard website-like design eliments (like using CSS for instance) that can be run on any platform.
To get the idea look at your firefox browser. It looks like a application, but in fact it is using the same technology to render your webpage as it is using to render the bookmarks, or the URL bar!
It's all one big webpage, instead of like IE were you have the application and a window within the application renders the webpages.
Firefox is one example of a application that uses Mozilla UI design technology. Thunderbird e-mail client is another one. A third party application is the Komodo programming IDE (which they have a no-cost trial use version. Works on Solaris, Windows, and Linux)
XUL is what MS promises XAML to be. You can easily program applications to use it with C++, Python, and even javascripting (amont others).
The major difference between XAML vs XUL is that XUL is mature and is being used by many people (even though they are not aware of it) vs XAML (which doesn't exist as a reality yet), XUL is completely cross platform were XAML is only usefull with Avalon on Windows on x86 hardware.
And a few other advantages in XUL court, like the ability to use standard web technology when designing apps such as CSS.
You can build applications that will run inside a Mozilla-based browser. You can run standalone-looking applications that work over intranets and internets. You can embed (free of cost, even in closed source programs) mozilla's rendering technology in completely standalone applications that a person can install like any other shrink-wrapped software product.
Note that it's a UI design framework, not a application design framework. It keeps it quick and keeps it non-bloated. Oh, and it's completely object-oriented.
If you want a application design framework for cross-platform web-based applications check out XForms.
Now I'll have Tabbed Conversations!
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
Lsk ks mdlkgslw nfk kjdod aod rdsrpd ,js ,gpp ;,gkij hfd ks kjd pslu kdom ndldygk;e Rpf;w ;,gkijglu ks Ms/gppa ja; kjd ;amd gljdooalk ;difogkt'kjosfuj'sn;ifogkt kjak H.soav hsd;eee
I don't know about anyone else, but what I'd like is a lightweight browser that I can use on the desktop in low-memory circumstances. When I am using time-sensitive internet-based applications with large memory requirements (for example, World of Warcraft), I usually end up slightly over my physical memory threshold - this is fine because Windows XP will swap parts of itself out of memory, so as long as I am not using those parts, I am A++ super-good.
If, however, I decide I want to open a browser to do some research on virtual economic or social situations by accessing a major data repository for economic and geographic data about the network environment I am studying (usually from thottbot or allakhazam), then I find myself stressing my memory and swapping things out unnecessarily.
I am looking forward to a ram upgrade planned for later in the year or next year, but still, I would like a small, lightweight, simple browser that uses the Gecko or KHTML/Safari engine to render pages for those times when I just need to view tables, text, and jpegs.
Such a browser could perhaps be limited to gestures-only support, so as to provide optimal space for real data - a location bar, the drawing pane, and a translucent overlay status bar that only appears when relevant, with all the rest of the actions being done with gestures. This would cut down pretty much entirely on the interface aspects, and would basically be just a frontend to the rendering engine.
Or has this been done?
I have one of the first generation phones with web browsing, and while it is damn limited, there are a number of things I still browse with it and wish it did more (and FASTER). In all of these cases I am on the move, so the phone is the only connectivity device available:
* I decide I want to go see a movie. I bring up my browser, check what the nearest theaters are offering and what are the show times. I may check imdb for reviews if there are several promising movies.
* I want to have lunch/dinner at restaurant X, but I don't know the address. I browse to the restaurant website (might need to go through Google first to find it), then use MapQuest or some such for directions.
* I want to know what x is in language y, so I browse to an online dictionary to do my query.
* The contact information for all of my co-workers is on a website.
* Check the status of my company Tinderbox.
* I remember reading something on some website but can't remember details. This might come up in the middle of conversation, for example. I launch by browser to check the details.
* During my daily commute, I sometimes lack reading so I download a nice article/story to read to pass the time.
Wake me up when Mozilla gets ported to stabiles.
Does anybody know the status of Skipstone? It's a Mozilla based browser that's much lighter than Firefox, but development seems to have stalled.
I thought it was a valid question. Obviously I was wrong.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
He was the only person who responded with something intelligent.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Informative? Very well done moderators.
Why is anything anything?
You always carry the friggin mobile. It's your insurance policy against being netless.
When on vacation or partying, I sometimes use a symbian phone to check out mail using IMAP, occasionally reply to it, use SSH to do some quick fix... It's pain to type with that shitty phone keyset but the small screen is actually very useful for something like SSH.
I cannot imagine carrying a laptop with me to a holiday resort, or to eastern Europe, or to Russia... it'd be enormous pain, could break, and could be stolen. GSM is universal, and a symbian phone very handy and always, always available.
Come on, I have GBA SP too, but never carry it because even that little case with its power supply is TOO MUCH. GBA emulator on symbian is much more handy, even if it sucks.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
I am the happy owner of a Nokia 6600 (I previously owned a Nokia 3650) I would like to see Minimo run on Symbian OS. It is very popular and there are many phones which use it. Currently I have Opera on mine, but I think that it would great to see an Open Source browser as a competitor.
Shouldn't the small son of Mozilla be called Mozuki??
I wanna see someone use those flashable GBA carts used for porting it to the Nintendo DS!
- Danny
First of all, how can he claim what Opera can and cannot be ported to? Also, everything he mentions is done by Opera already. Read more.
Opera's bigger than ever on the desktop, and that's a fact. It's never been a major player on the destkop at all, but right now, the PC revenues are higher than they've ever been. So what you are saying about getting "their market on the desktop eaten" is simply not true. How can they get a market eaten if they never had it in the first place?
According to who?Opera is available today, and all Opera has to do is to establish itself as the "standard" mobile browser.
Minimo might be completely free, but while Opera costs money, it also has dedicated developers that sell ready made solutions. If you want to use Minimo, you'll need to hire someone to do the job.
So the thing is, both Opera and Minimo will cost money in the end. It all comes down to TCO, and if Opera has cheap and tailor made solutions, as well as a better product (it's smaller and faster than Minimo, remember, and has all the features Minimo is bragging about), then a lot of people will still choose Opera, because Minimo could turn out to be a hassle in the end.
Clever signature text goes here.
I wasn't cheering anything on. Simply questioning if Opera might use the same crappy tactics as other companies have once they're backed into a corner with no where to go.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin