Slashdot Mirror

Now there was an innovative company - typically for a UK computer company, they were far better at developing tech than at selling it. The exact converse is what seems to bring success in the world, sadly...

I used to use a Psion series 3 (http://www.psion.com/) as a portable PDA/word processor. In fact, when I was at university, I wrote entire chapters of my projects on it while in a coffee bar or any area away from the network. It was portable, had a usable keyboard once you got used to it, and had some great applications. PC connectivity was over serial and I just dumped all my edits in plain text and imported them later to whatever app I was using on the desktop system.

One good thing was that I was using LaTeX at the time, and just marked up the text appropriately. Therefore, when it was dumped to my Linux desktop, I could just build the LaTeX and it was ready formatted.

The Series 5 was a good step forwards from the 3, with more power, better screen, stylus input etc. There's some info on it over at Geek.com: http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/pda/psionser5.htm.

If you can pick one up off Ebay, there's a great user community still there. Cheap now, too.

Modulo the cellphone and camera bit (they used packet radio, though) Psion's PDAs were doing that sort of stuff 10 years ago. I believe (have to admit to not keeping in the loop) that since they sold off their interest in Symbian that's pretty much all that remains of Psion these days.

You don't think that Psion getting there nine years earlier counts, then? Even the Series 3 beat the Newton by a couple of years.

And a little karma whoring to give you that fuzzy feeling:

Revo
Revo plus (slightly upgraded Revo)
Series5

And a little karma whoring to give you that fuzzy feeling:

Revo
Revo plus (slightly upgraded Revo)
Series5

Its a fair point to look at other devices - but *please*, not the Journada!

I have nothing (in this instance) against it being a Microsoft device (I have a Pocket PC and owned an Orange SPV Smartphone for about 10 days :) - but just that the OS really didn't seem to have been designed for what it was used for.

Its probably great if you're left handed, but if not the menus are all in completely the wrong place. The benefits of mimicing a desktop layout (where handed-ness doesn't matter) are far outweighed by any right-handed users having to reach right across the screen to access *any* of the menu or start-menu functions.

This might sound like a minor point, but I borrowed a Journada beloning to a friend whilst at Uni myself, and found it infuriating!

Desktop metaphors aside, mobile devices *must* be designed to be usable on the move - which means at least featuring switchable UIs that place control functions nearest to the hand holding the stylus.

Personally, I'm a big fan of laptops. But failing this (as too bulk/expensive) I'd probably look into a Psion Series 7/NetBook. These are beauttifully designed and built devices that can run all day off batteries without a problem, and still feature a 640x480 colour screen.

More at Psion.

-- Stuart

More info on the Wafer Chip project AKA Wafer Scale Integration.

During 1986, Sinclair Research (SRL) took the decision to divest itself of its computer business - which, inclusive of the then product range and 'Sinclair' brand name - was sold to Amstrad plc. The company itself then became a holding company for interests in a series of 'spin outs' covering electronics and other sectors. First among these in 1986 were the Winchester-based Shave Communications - a leader in the development of new communications products - and Anamartic. Established to design, develop and market a range of new memory and processor products using WSI (Wafer Scale Integration) technology, Anamartic shipped its first product in 1989 following a multi-million pound investment programme. It represented the 'first successful application of the wafer-scale technique worldwide'. At the same time Sir Clive also launched a third company, Cambridge Computer Limited, in which SRL initially retained majority control. Cambridge-based, it launched its first product, the best selling Z88 portable computer in summer 1987 and, during 1989, also entered the then new market for advanced satellite receivers.

Well the Z88 was a mild success that developed into the Psion PDAs. A nice approach to portable computing.

But what of the Wafer Scale Integration technology?

Anyone know?

Psion (aka symbian) should just start remarketing the Revo. "Best PDA ever." 8)

Cons? it didnt have wireless and a color screen, but this thing is probably close to 8 years old. And they had the clamshell design nailed.
This sony device is neat, and getting better, but comparing it to the revo design, it still looks like a joke.

Revo + wireless = world pda domination. (IMHO)

The symbian OS is so much better than the palm os, too. Much faster, more resilient... I even have an IDE on mine with a compiler!

Alas, the only thing i'll see symbian/psion in now is menus on phones... sad.

Are there any ARM notebooks?

PDAs are a wonderful idea, and once someone solves the interfacing problem I'm sure they'll be as common as full-size or notebook computers.

I'm striken by the things that usually strikes me as I look at gizmos that has a 'keyboard-look-a-like-input-thingy' - why do so many people designing such gizoms where text entry is important insist of laying out the 'keyboard' like "A B C D E etc"? I mean, come on people, Psion has shown us that is is easy to put in a QWERTY-layout keyboard (or DOVRAK, if you prefer) on a handheld device. For me, and I have tried a handfull of small formfactor keyboards, you can't get better in a small package than the Series5mx. Even the old Series3 looks to have a better keyboard than this new gizmo the UPS will start using.

I know, I'm ranting a bit, but it is something I feel is important; but then, I prefer using the keyboard over the mouse most days to move about on the computer.

Isn't this the form factor most would prefer over the SL-5500/5600's tiny "thumb" keyboard?
Sharp's reasoning not to release it outside Japan might be that x86 sub-notebooks never sold well elsewhere, and Psion does not have any new keyboard-based devices in the pipeline either.
However, Sharp's management just may not have taken into account how much the "geek population" has grown over recent years, and that the concept of a diskless and Linux-based system of this kind has never even been tried in these markets, so even if only a few percent of IT customers may be interested in the C700, extrapolating just from the opinions shown by the Slashdot user base in at least a Zaurus thread per week recently, the release of a C700 (preferably enhanced with more RAM, the improved XScale 255, and WLAN/Bluetooth wireless connectivity) in North America and Europe could well mean several 100000 units being sold within just a few months.
The question is who to turn to inside Sharp to let them know about the demand (I hesitate to call it "petition" for it actually rather means proposing a compelling business case they may not have become aware of themselves just yet).
Apparently the experience how tens of thousands of visitors would stand and stare at their C700s at both Comdex and CeBIT has not been sufficient yet to trigger a rethink of their release policy.
Does anybody know an appropriate eMail address, or survey page we could use to try and convince them to sell the C700 over here as well?
(If someone happens to have a server on broadband -and does not go by the name of Ralsky ;-) -, there's probably nothing wrong with setting up an actual external "petition page" as well...)

I just finished looking at Psion's site and I didn't find a netbook, Psion Refeerence Guide, doesn't show a PCMCIA slot.. I might be in the wrong section, but throw me another bone, if it used BT instead of IR that'd be a bonus too ;)

Ah. You mean like the Psion Series 7, which has been around for years. Or if that's too large, the Psion Series 5mx, which is also getting on in age. Or the Revo, which is teeny-tiny.

These are good for way more than basic text typing and email. They're full-fledged computers, with an awesome scripting language for end-users, and a lot of available applications. Battery life is long, keyboard is useable, screen display is great, built like a tank. Everything you could want...

...except that Psion pretty much failed to market them. Buggers.

Ah. You mean like the Psion Series 7, which has been around for years. Or if that's too large, the Psion Series 5mx, which is also getting on in age. Or the Revo, which is teeny-tiny.

These are good for way more than basic text typing and email. They're full-fledged computers, with an awesome scripting language for end-users, and a lot of available applications. Battery life is long, keyboard is useable, screen display is great, built like a tank. Everything you could want...

...except that Psion pretty much failed to market them. Buggers.

The Psion 7 was a sub-laptop with an almost full-size keyboard.

But why not get the real thing instead, with a 32-bit preemptive multitasking OS?.

It looks like a product marketed almost solely at the technical community just can't succeed in economic conditions like those at present, if ever.

Even industry heavyweights with large technical communities are in trouble (Psion - who invented the handheld computer - are pulling out and there are continuing rumours about the future of Palm), so what hope is there for a newcomer to the market? (Sharp take note! :-) )

I don't know, as stated above PDAs are not development platforms in general. StrongARMs etc. are nice CPUs, but I wouldn't compile my Java stuff on them.
IMO the optimal PDA for the developer is the one, with which you can edit textfiles fast and comfortable and compile them later on you PC/Laptop. From this point of view you have several choices:
The new Sharp Zaurus Linux PDA - Besides the cool fact it runs linux, it has this cool mini-keyboard, which is pretty fast to use, so editing should be easy with it.
A Psion PDA - okay, they run epoc R5, which is pretty outdated now, but the keyboard is a pleasure to use and with a little practice almost as good as a normal keyboard. If you don't like Epoc here's the project to get linux run on 'em.

So the third possibility, would be a Palm + Palmkeyboard, but from my experience editing is not really fun on a Palm.
So, I would suggest, that you buy the Zaurus, if you just want a Linux toy to play around with and code a bit and get a Psion, if you want a stable PDA for many things + coding.
X

Is the one I have now, the Psion Revo - Of course it's not linux, nor WinCE - It's EPOC - an OS made for small devices - The revo is the best I've EVER tried - I've had three palmtops, and I've tried the HP jornada handheld (too big) - the Revo is just right. The fact that it has a keyboard makes the difference (I know the HP has too, but the device is too bulky).
It's about 200 US$
If I need to do linux stuff on it, I just use VNC for EPOC (get it here (downloads - bottom).
Ok, the sync could be better, but you can't have it all.

you can get Doom for the Psions and, as the Psions come with a Keyboard, you can get a dam good game out of it.

Mlk

What is it about color displays that makes them a "must have"? I've got a Psion Revo which doesn't suffer from lack of color, and has a longer battery life for it.

- No GUI or mouse, but real and good keyboard.
- No movable parts inside: solid state HD, no fans on CPU.
- Minimum spec: CPU 20MHz, RAM 32MB, HD 5GB
- Form factor: something similar to Sony C1 or Francklin eBook with foldable keyboard. Keyboard should be full size (C1 - 95%)
- Minimum IO: built in modem, 1x PCMCIA, 1x USB.
- Screen: Linux FB. LCD can be black/white if it will save power and price ( but hi-res).
- Manufacture should not make any attempts to develop custom apps. It should of cause have full open specs, and shipped with basic Linux (at list initially). More friendly non-slashdot type user environment, including non-X11 GUI, can be provided with ISVs (in dipandant software vendor).

Optional:
- USB mouse.
- ether, IR, 801.2b, CF/SM slot, GPS, and so on.

Something similar was already made:
Cidco MailStation . B/W LCD, pseudo graphics, $100, 1.9 pounds. Cidco decided that it will be much more usefull if they will make it proprietary and put only one application on it :(
Psions have too small keyboards for productive work.

I believe it can be done under $300, 1.5 pounds, battery life 24h+

Target market:
- slashdot types (developers, admins).
- WP,
- Mail

Amiga have been signed by Sharp as a content provider for its new Zuarus platform. The Zaurus ships with Amiga's "AmigaDE", a platform agnostic digital environment which is hosted by the Linux OS.

Sharp demonstrated the Zaurus running AmigaDE applications a while back. Here's the link.

Amiga have also been signed by Psion to provide its AmigaDE system for their NetBook products.

--
Ben.

there are some really neet solutions that are more sub and less notebook.

first, i'm kinda shakey about posting this, cause i can only imagine it will increase the demand and drive up price, but with that said, here i go anyway.

i've had my eye on a sorta pda/subnotebook from psion. i'm particularly interested in the series 7 model. it's really light, really small, and downright cool. and best of all, it runs for almost nine hours of use, so you ussually go days before recharge.

it comes with the EPIC operating system installed, which is pretty nifty i hear. but i'm more interested in installing psilinux on it. psilinux is a cool project. i'm not sure how easy to install it is right now, but apparently with some hacking(which is all fun right?) it's possible to get it working with microwindows and all. nifty!

so yeah, check that out, and don't ever say i'm not looking out for ya ;)

there are some really neet solutions that are more sub and less notebook.

first, i'm kinda shakey about posting this, cause i can only imagine it will increase the demand and drive up price, but with that said, here i go anyway.

i've had my eye on a sorta pda/subnotebook from psion. i'm particularly interested in the series 7 model. it's really light, really small, and downright cool. and best of all, it runs for almost nine hours of use, so you ussually go days before recharge.

it comes with the EPIC operating system installed, which is pretty nifty i hear. but i'm more interested in installing psilinux on it. psilinux is a cool project. i'm not sure how easy to install it is right now, but apparently with some hacking(which is all fun right?) it's possible to get it working with microwindows and all. nifty!

so yeah, check that out, and don't ever say i'm not looking out for ya ;)

It does.

The EPOC OS may be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if you can't download the email addresses you entered in your PDA right to your mail program with ease, it's useless.

It can, so it isn't.

A CD-ROM containing the PsiWin PC-Psion sync software is included with every Psion computer.

Regards, Ralph.

but if I could get a StrongARM machine running reasonably fast

You mean like a Psion Series 7 or a netBook? Harddrive is available separately, though.

--

Perl has been ported to the Psion 5/5mx series platform for some time.

...has a ruggedized Organizer originating from the famous Series3 (I guess): water-, dust- and drop-proof - maybe a bit above your price range (http://www.enterprise.psion.com/public/products/w orkaboutmx.htm) but with complete com solution (http://www.enterprise.psion.com/public/products/v comm.htm)

...has a ruggedized Organizer originating from the famous Series3 (I guess): water-, dust- and drop-proof - maybe a bit above your price range (http://www.enterprise.psion.com/public/products/w orkaboutmx.htm) but with complete com solution (http://www.enterprise.psion.com/public/products/v comm.htm)

I currently have the Psion 5, which is succeeded by the 5mx which has 16MB of RAM. The 5mx is a nice trade-off between performance/features (7 series) and size (Revo).

Check out their web site here.

But connecting a keyboard to a Palm!??!?. I mean, get real!

If you need data input, choose a PDA with built-in keyboard; it will be smaller and more comfortable (how can you use a "stowaway" while walking??). Get a Psion Revo plus with 16Mb memory, built-in Word, Excel, web browsing, etc. Fits easily in a pocket.

Also see:

Revo Introduction

Palm vs Revo

Carrying a separate keyboard to unfold and attach your Palm/Handspring
to is not the only way to have portable keyboard input. There are at
least two very usable PDA models that have a built-in keyboard: the
Psion Revo and the HP 200LX

I find that the Revo is just as portable as a Palm, and far superior
for text entry. The unit is about the size and weight of a checkbook,
and fits well in a front pants pocket or suit jacket inside pocket.

The keyboard works amazingly well considering its size. Since I'm not
a touch-typist, I find that text entry on the Revo is almost as fast
as with full size desktop keyboard.

The screen is 480x160, providing a full document width in the built in
word processor and spreadsheet. The included web browser works well,
and there is now a Revo Plus that comes with Opera as a browser and
supports 128-bit SSL, frames, etc.

The PsiWin software syncs to Microsoft Outlook, among others, and can
convert documents between MS Office and Psion formats.

If you like using a keyboard, but could never find a keyboard-based
PDA that was both usable and sufficiently portable, you should take a
close look at the Revo. Psion also makes some other models - the Series
5MX is quite nice but a bit large for a pocket, and the Siena is
extremely small but closer to a Sharp organizer than a full scale PDA.

Prior to the Revo I used an HP 200LX. The 200LX can also be carried in
a front pants pocket, but is bit bulkier. It runs DOS 5.0 in a full
80x25 screen, and as a result there are thousands (maybe tens of
thousands) of (generally older) programs that can run on it.

The 200LX has an RS232 port on the side, making it a good choice
for a portable terminal for people who have to administer devices via
a serial port. On the other side is a standard Type II PCMCIA slot.

The built-in PIM software is generally pretty good, and has some
quick-lookup features that I've still never seen any other PDA
surpass.

Unfortunately HP discontinued it a while back, but I expect they are
still available in the secondary/used markets.

Both systems can be used quite well without a hard surface - simply
hold under the system with your fingers, and type with your thumbs. It
sounds awkward, but it works pretty well, and I can usually enter a
contact faster than neighboring Palm users.

Cheers,
Dennis

...another comment from Michael Tandy.

...another comment from Michael Tandy.

A related question... What is Transmeta's MIPS-per-Watt rating?

This was the metric used by Psion to select the StrongARM processor for the Series 5 and successor PDAs. A rather enlightened means of guesstimating which architecture to tie oneself into, I thought...

Stupid, stupid me: I've toyed with the idea of buying one for ages, and forgot all about it in the heat of the moment!

It's the [Psion] product line, which is almost exactly what I described: runs forever on a couple of AA batteries, has right software, etcetera.

Heck, there's even a colour-screen model. And the word processor is MSWord compatible. And they're small.

K, now I'm horny to go buy one. Damn!

--

Another examples of the fact that US companies don't understand Europe is the fact that the Palm VII can only be used with the US 1900 Mhz GSM system, and not the 900/1800 Mhz that is used in Europe. Psion has licensed Motorolas system for this, so things are getting interesting.

Try EPOC/ARM then - from Symbian. Built in MS-synchronisable Office and email progs. No Netscape but Opera is good enough. And has Java support.

How's this for a tasty (albeit expensive) "net appliance".

(There is life beyond MS and Linux ...)

Regards, Ralph.

My Psion 5mx is running Opera 4 beta as I speak (HTML 4, DHTML, Java) and fast for a palmtop. Wireless is not built in to this unit (you have to connect through a data-capable cellphone using the IR port, or using the travel-modem option) but several Ericsson and Nokia phone producs are based on this OS (Epoc) and you will see some of these gadgets appear soon with Opera built-in (in fact, Psion has licensed Opera) not just from these companies but also Motorolla and Sony. Consider also that you will be carrying a cell-phone anyway, so it makes sense to base your connectivity off your cell-phone (in the case of the 5mx) or carry a web-integrated cell-phone.

IMO, everything else is half-baked and under-powered. See Psion's website.

You could use an EPOC PDA : they have good email and web browsing apps - but you'd need a data capable mobile phone to go with it..

I'd go for either the Ericsson MC218

or

The Psion revo

oh yeah, and there's more revo info here.

For the phone, something like a Nokia 7100 Series or 8200 Series would do.

There's currently an HTML browser for the psion devices, with a WML one promised. The MC218 already has a WML browser.

The Unfettered Mind: Takuan Sôhô - ISBN: 0-87011-851-X
My contact details are here.

This maybe slightly offtopic, but this is the best crowd to answer the question.

I want to setup a wireless lan at work with my pc and a handheld. Specifically, I want to use either the Vadem Clio, which is just sooo cool or the Psion 5mx, both of these have pcmcia slots which would accept the lucent wavelan 11Mbps card. Is there any way to setup tcpip between these and my suse box? The options are just endless...Most of my time is spent at work or home and I'd rather have a fast connection than try to use my cell phone...

Sitting in a meeting...playing quake!

This way you don't have to deal with the hassle of WAP or web clipping or whatever it is they call it these days...

It's easy to write EPOC off, as its share of the PDA market is still pretty small (although it's quite high in the UK), but its inclusion in smartphones from later on this year could well see it being widely-adopted at that end of the market, with consequent "sudden" demand for compatible PDAs...

It's easy to write EPOC off, as its share of the PDA market is still pretty small (although it's quite high in the UK), but its inclusion in smartphones from later on this year could well see it being widely-adopted at that end of the market, with consequent "sudden" demand for compatible PDAs...

It's easy to write EPOC off, as its share of the PDA market is still pretty small (although it's quite high in the UK), but its inclusion in smartphones from later on this year could well see it being widely-adopted at that end of the market, with consequent "sudden" demand for compatible PDAs...

The Psion 5Mx is one example of a pen operated Psion product. The Psion series 7 is a little bigger, but also has a touch screen.

If you want all of this now in a reliable package
Psion have it. Full compatibility with Word, Excel etc. A full Java 1.1.4 runtime so a Full Web browser. Never crashes, boots in milliseconds.

All of that is here now it runs using EPOC. And as with the rest of the mobile revolution the major players are in Europe and using it right now, not in some fluffy time in the future.