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Yes I did look at the manufacturer sites (obviously with the exception of the Zune site, I just assumed incorrectly).

I looked at the Sandisk site here:
http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(2057)-SDMX4-8192-A70-Sansa_e280_MP3_Player_8GB.aspx
Doesn't list formats (at least not where I can see) so I just checked newegg (specifications tab):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855125013
The specs tab lists "Supported Audio Formats MP3/WMA/WMA with DRM"
no mention of mp4/AAC.

And Creative Zen W:
http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=15752&nav=1&bypass=1
Audio Playback Formats: MP3, WMA, WAV
no mention of mp4/AAC.

So I checked a couple other players -
Zen Vision M won't or doesn't list it: http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=14331&nav=1&bypass=1
Zen Stone plus won't or doesn't list it: http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=16696&nav=1&bypass=1
The regular Zen does
So at least one player from their current offering supports it but many of their players don't seem to unless I'm missing something.

Still the one consistency is that they all support MP3.

I do find it interesting that the Zune supports AAC, filed under "learn something new every day". Thanks for the link.

flash (ssds) uses less power than harddisks. you don't need to spin flash memories while you are not reading them, or move other mechanical parts while reading. see e.g. http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3732 "Power efficiency. SanDisk SSDs have minimal power requirements, with savings rated at over 50 percent compared with a hard disk drive -- 0.9 watts during active operation versus 1.9 watts7."

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1353)-SanDisk_Extreme_Ducati_Edition_CompactFlash.aspx

I haven't benchmarked it myself, so I can't say anything to back up the marketing claims. But if true, that's in the neighborhood of the 50 MBs that you used in your calculations.

Stack 8 of the 8 GB versions together, and you've got the 64 GB that Alienware is using.

This is really cool. I'd love to replace a lot of platter-based hard drives with some of these, and it's looking like a new opportunity is starting to open up here.

I've been looking forward to these fast solid state drives, wondering when they would be ready for market.
I run my Rapidweather Remaster of Knoppix Linux (See Screenshots, below) on a little 2 GB SanDisk Cruzer drive, it is a little slower booting up than an ordinary hard drive, but so portable! Just plug it in, and boot up, and all your files are there. I have 4 partitions on it, even a swap. When I run Debian 4.0 from the hard drive, that swap gets picked up too. Often, Office Depot has these drives for about $25.00.
I understand that Dell is offering some solid state hard drives as an option now, but they are very expensive.
They did say those drives are faster, which I just gotta see, since the Cruzer is slower. Could be that I use a PCI USB card, rather than a "real" USB interface directly into the motherboard. I'm using an old Gateway 2000 PII, with 512K cache, so it's able to run both OS's just fine, even Rapidweather Remaster from the USB drive. To get the SanDisk running, it is necessary to have these files on the hard drive, in a MSDOS or Windows 95/98 partition:
http://www.rapidweather.com/download
(free download)
When there, pick the usb tarball. Everything necessary to boot from a usb drive running Rapidweather Remaster is there, and a detailed readme is included. Look at that to see all the details.
The older PC's can't boot directly from a USB drive, so the files are necessary to provide a menu, and get the SanDisk running. Any old small hard drive will do, as long as you can install MSDOS on it.

Do you think HD manufacturers haven't been making HDs as cool and quiet as they could?

Pros:

• More reliable: No moving parts; no head crash; no wobble
• Low latency, high throughput (all seem to offer low latency, some don't do so good on throughput)
• Low power requirements
• Low heat production
• No noise

Cons:

• High price
• Small capacity

Samsung SSD
http://www.samsung.com/eu/Products/Semiconductor/p roducts/ssd.asp

Lexar SSD
http://www.lexar.com/ssd/expresscard.html

Sandisk SSD
http://www.sandisk.com/OEM/ProductCatalog(1274)-Sa nDisk_SSD_Solid_State_Drives.aspx

Transcend SSD
http://www.transcendusa.com/Products/ModDetail.asp ?ModNo=162

You can buy a 32GB Samsung from NewEgg for $534 incl shipping.

My SD card has USB built-in:

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(1853)-SDSDPH- 2048-SanDisk_Ultra_II_SD_Plus_USB_2GB.aspx

This solution seems alot simpiler than Wi-Fi: no SSID/WEP/WPA/etc stuff to configure.

Funny, people are usually more impressed by my SD card than my new Nikon DSLR.

Damn... longer than the life of a hard drive eh? Guess we'll just have to make an array of SSD's then.
http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478

Flash drive technology has advanced over the years including increased the number of writes you can make to the memory cell. Also, the drives use a wear leveling algorithm to spread writes evenly across the entire disk. This is all transparent to the OS. This is really cool stuff and I can't wait to replace the HDD in my laptop.

I believe you're correct. According to the datasheet for the SanDisk 32GB:
Internal transfer read rate: 62MB/s
Internal transfer write rate: 36MB/s

Whereas, for example, the Maxtor MobileMax 40GB drive (for comparison) says:
Sustained Internal (MB/s) 42

Maybe it averages out?

With music though, I think there is a point well below 64GB where "enough is enough". My entire music library on my computer *MIGHT* reach 12GB tops; it's probably closer to 8GB, and that's with 2000-3000 songs. Now I realize that many people have collections that dwarf that in size, but honestly, do you really need to tote around your ENTIRE collection in your pocket? Just seems like a 2GB flash card holding a couple hundred songs that you feel like listening to at the time would be just fine.

Ya, I agree. Someone should come out with a flash based music player.

The SanDisk 32GB version reports a 2 million hour MTBF... http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478

That's quite a bit better than typical hard drives these days!
Has anyone found MTBF information regarding the Samsung versions?

I hope you aren't drawing this conclusion based on what you read here on /. Group-think and group-speak run rampant in this place.

It's a bit of a stretch, perhaps. Still something seems to be driving the recent spate of high profile open source migrations. I doubt they'd be happening if the numbers didn't make some sort of sense.

Isn't "group-think", the psychological term for "no one around here takes me seriously?" ;)

check out the U3 initiative at http://u3.sandisk.com/download/Download_no.asp [sandisk.com]

Useful site, thanks.

One thing you can be certain of - if I use it and am impressed by it, I will freely and willingly say so. I am not blinded by ideology or envy (of the Redmondians). I just want good products that help me be productive.

Good for you. You might check back in a year or so when they finish the graphing re-write. They'll probably still not use the same formula syntax though. Pity you're not on Linux or I'd suggest Gnumeric which used to boast bug-for-bug compatibility with Excel. I don't know what the graphing is like though.

But really, do what works. So far as I'm concerned, the argument is all about choice. And that includes the choice to use MS products if you so choose.

It's just that, personally, I don't think they're destined to remain a popular choice, not once the world's expand a little more.

I was talking about Redmond's pricing policies, and how they are increasingly viewed in the rest of the industry.

... but the cord holding the fluffy dice dangling from the rear-view mirror is worn almost through

But hey, why let anything people actually say get in the way of your pre-conceived notions?

The fact that it needs software and doesn't just appear as USB mass storage* is restrictive, in that it prevents me from buying one.

*like, for example http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(2057)-SDMX4-8 192-Sansa_e280_MP3_Player_8GB.aspx

So what? Just because someone has a SSHD with 128GB doesn't mean that much. For one thing, how large is it? If it's larger than 1.8" by 5mm thick, it's useless for portable devices. For another thing, how much does it cost? If it costs more than $100 or so, it's too expensive (something that's been a problem with flash storage for a long time; only now is it getting competitive).

For your information, a few companies have introduced 1.8" form factor SSHDs. Here's a couple of articles about them:
article 1
article 2

There's a couple of problems with them. 1) The largest size is 32GB. While that's slightly larger than the 30GB drive in the Zune and iPod, it's only just-as-good, and not much of a reason to upgrade if you already have a 30GB mechanical drive. 2) They're expensive. They even admit this in the articles. While they do have much lower power consumption than regular drives, no one's going to pay $1000 for an ipod just because it has flash instead of a hard drive.

Maybe in 5 years when the prices are much lower, hard drive-based DAPs will be only a memory, but for now this technology isn't ready.

However, I do hope I can get my hands on some of these flash hard drives at that time, since my H320's drive will probably need to be replaced again by then. And since the DAP market is going steadily downhill, with less and less competition, I won't have the option of upgrading to a new DAP.

You do realize that the SSD you reference is based on flash, right? If you look carefully, you will find that no vendors list write seek times or write IOPS for such devices. The reason is that the performance is just plain awful.

RAM based SSD is nice, but flash based SSD won't touch a decent 15k drive for any write heavy application.

The iPod line needed a reboot, and the iPhone was splashiest way to do it. In fact, this device is the logical evolution of the Newton MessagePad. Think about it. Apple realized that boring contact lists, calendars and handwriting recognition won't encourage the Unwashed Masses to adopt portable computers. People are far more media-centric than that.

The rejuvenated iPod lineup will tempt you with music, movies and games, while offering an addictive combination of go-anywhere Wi-Fi browsing and email. And you can bet that Apple is planning to open up third-party development as quickly as possible.

As for the iPhone device, the bleak reality is that it is slightly larger than a 5G iPod. Too big to slip into the pocket of my jeans, which means it's too large to use as my everyday phone. My hard drive-equipped iPod usually lives in a messenger bag on my shoulder or in a jacket pocket, simply because it's too bulky to function as an "everywhere" communications accessory. I wouldn't be willing to carry something as large or expensive as the iPhone with me everywhere I go. I'd look like a dork with my calculator on a belt clip. Besides, mobile phones are expensive enough to begin with and many people (especially students) will balk at the idea of committing to a 2 year $1000+ mobile voice/data/voicemail contract after shelling out $599 for the iPhone itself.

No, the real magic will happen when Apple releases a $299 version of this device - the next generation iPod - that retains everything but the GSM + EDGE phone technology. At that point, the iPod will be perfectly positioned to become everyone's favorite teeny-tiny ultraportable computer.

Here ya go. A SanDisk Ultra II SD Plus card.

I have one. An SD card that is also a USB drive.

In fact, I've not seen a flash drive without write protect...

You haven't looked at the local Best Buy, Fry's, Fred Meyer, Radio Shack, Walgreens, Sams Club, Costco, ...

Most USB memory sticks on the shelf at a local retailer do not have a protect switch.

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1064)-SanD isk_Cruzer_Mini_USB_Flash_Drive.aspx

This whole page of Sansdisk products contains a bunch of thumbdrives with encryption software, but none has a write protect switch.

Why are you comparing the Cruzer Micro to the Cruzer Mini? Can't you read?

SanDisk Cruzer Micro The 256MB model is priced at $19.99, and the 2GB at $99.99.

My Cruzer Micro didn't have the uninstall option in the U3 Launchpad software. However, there is an excellent uninstaller on the SanDisk website:
http://www.sandisk.com/Retail/Default.aspx?CatID=1 415

The uninstaller is so good it almost makes up for that U3 crapware. Almost. If we now replaced the giant orange LCD light with a much smaller and less intrusive one, it would be perfect!

If the Amazon list doesn't distinguish between different prices, it's pretty worthless. The San Disk player costs $139.00 USD. That's just the manufacturer's list price.

A quick froogle search will save you 40 bucks.

The Zune is 150 bucks more on the same site.

I agree it's going to be a tough uphill climb for Zune to dethrone the iPod gorilla. Assuming the most casual shopper does even a little research, they'll probably get an iPod.

And why should they? Cameras have USB ports.

In comparison with all the unique features that Macs come with (magnetic latch, magnetic power connector, back-lit keyboard, camera, IR sensor) you'd think a card reader would be easy to implement. And it is. It's obviously not a desired feature.

And if you have professional needs then you'd be using one of these.

Removeable storage in your mobile device just doesn't have enough applications.

I've just got into SanDisk web page to see that player you talk about. The only one I've found with 8 GB is this, which costs $249.99. Ok, I like it.

Now, I've visited the Apple Store, and the 8 GB black iPod nano costs $249.00.

Conclusion: iPod nano is $0.99 cheaper.

I guess I'm wrong, but I can't find my mistake :D

What would realy be awsome? If someone started making an mp3 player that accepted removable flash memory cards so they could be swapped out like cd's (like on a pda).
SanDisk does. I have one, it uses SD cards: http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?I D=1208/ Note the price...if it dies one day, i will just buy a new one: no service needed.

I need something that will play on both my Sansa e250, and my fiance's iPod

I'm looking at the manual, and it only mentions MP3, WMA, and Secure WMA. "Other file types need to be converted to these formats."

If you're looking for a durable drive, take a look at the SanDisk Cruzer Titanium line of drives.

Retractable USB drive encased material "over two and a half times the strength of titanium alloy". Now I don't know about that, but I have the 512MB version (looks like they have up to 2GB now) for the past year and a half and it's rock solid and I love it.

Dimensions are in the brochure, which is linked in the Additional Product Info on the product page.

44.1mm x 88.9mm x 13.2mm
or
1.73" x 3.5" x 0.52"

40mm x 89 mm x 7mm
or
1.57" x 3.5" x 0.27"

So nearly twice the thickness, but slightly narrower than the Nano. Also double the capacity, much bigger screen and a built-in FM tuner (which is a $50 ipod accessory) at the same price...

Dimensions are in the brochure, which is linked in the Additional Product Info on the product page.

44.1mm x 88.9mm x 13.2mm
or
1.73" x 3.5" x 0.52"

40mm x 89 mm x 7mm
or
1.57" x 3.5" x 0.27"

So nearly twice the thickness, but slightly narrower than the Nano. Also double the capacity, much bigger screen and a built-in FM tuner (which is a $50 ipod accessory) at the same price...

For what it's worth, I have a SanDisk SDMX1 MP3/WMA player (256M version) and it's really pretty nice. The physical design is no marvel of engineering, but it worked flawlessly with Linux with no effort. It appears as a standard USB mass storage device. It's got an FM tuner and voice recorder (only records WAV format, though), too. The best part is that I paid $15 (yes, fifteen dollars) for it on Woot a couple weeks ago. Hell of a deal. I bought one for my girlfriend, too (and only paid $5 shipping for the whole order).

> This player uses microSD, not miniSD. The max capacity for a microSD chip last I checked was 1gb.

It's 2GB now..

http://sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1132)-SanDisk_ microSDTransFlash_Cards.aspx

Here's a picture of it with headphones plugged in. Gives a pretty good idea of scale.

You sir need something from http://sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1014)-MP3_Play ers.aspx

When I got my Canon S2-IS I looked for the best SD memory and got the SanDisk Extreme III SD 1GB card. I know it's not widely available yet(I got mine online), but you would think this test would have the Extreme III 2GB card in it's lineup. http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(1973)-SDSDX3- 2048-SanDisk_Extreme_III_SD_2GB.aspx

Sansa(TM) e270 MP3 Player 6GB: $279.99.

APPLE iPod Black 30GB: $279.99

Baaahhhh!

You're right, but Sandisk's site explicitly lists XP as a requirement.

You mean, the product site for, say, a Sandisk MP3 player? It is indeed true that Windows XP is listed... as is MacOS.

They aren't going to make the iPod disappear by making cheap, crappy knockoffs.

Actually, I just recently purchased a SanDisk Sansa e250. It's quite nice, about the size of a Nano, and has more capacity and features for the price. The radio is built right in, so I didn't have to spend an extra $50 for a little radio thing, it will record radio or voice, and displays pictures and videos. My only complaint is that the scroll wheel, while obviously modeled after an iPod, is not quite as nice as the iPod's touch-sensitive thing, and makes it somewhat harder to push the buttons on the outside of the wheel.

This article is about SanDisk's campaign against Apple iPod; is Creative involved in this too?

In reviewing SanDisk's product lineup it seems fairly trim (about 5 main products). So perhaps they are indeed competing along similar lines?

Don't be a sheep and copy everyone else. Be an individualist and buy a completely unique looking MP3-player that resembles nothing else :-P

Check this from sandisk: http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1066)-SanD isk_Cruzer_Profile_USBFlash_Drive.aspx They look cool, though never used one, nor do I know if they are good.

My Sandisk 1GB unit lasts about 25-20 hrs on a single AAA battery. So I just throw in a few extra batteries into the oh-so-small case that I have for it.

I wouldn't trade it for an ipod. If you have half a clue, it's much more "convenient" than the ipod. Of course, YMMV and yes, I have used an ipod.

I have also been very hapy with my Sandisk Sansa e140

It has a base of 1Gb storage which is expandable using sd cards (so really its got unlimited storage), it has fm radio and works as a usb storage drive for both the onboard 1gb storage and for the connected sd card...

I have 3 sd cards which have each have different types of music on them and i have music that i listen too more often stored on the base flash drive

The SD cards beat the HELL out of sonys HI-MD as there are many many different sizes depending on what you want and they are solid state...

linky for those interested
http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(1208)-SDMX2-1 024-Sansa_e140_Digital_Audio_Player_1GB.aspx

And from having been intimately involved in the persistent-storage subsystem of a telecommunications product using those Flash cards, that program-cycle specification is per real block, not taking into account the wear-levelling and sparing feature. As I recall (from very dim memory) the PC card devices had about 15% spare capacity for replacement blocks. (That brochure PDF doesn't include that figure, though, so I can't be sure of that figure.)

However, these specifications are for their newest products; four years ago they were nowhere near that good. With a much older revision of this same Flash product (and with, ahem, some highly suboptimal write behavior) we were cooking some Flash disks in mere weeks in the lab...

give me a 4gb flash drive and i'll be all over it!
Sure, here.

They list it as $599, but it's on sale for about $265, at least where I live (Sweden).

This is probably like the second time I've mentioned this specific device here, but -- apparently you haven't seen something like this USB drive

By 2008, the projected release date of the 1" hard drive, I'm sure miniSD's will be up to at least 4GB if not 8GB, without the power drain of spinning platters, without the seek and latency, and in a much smaller form factor.

We can see from IBM's CompactFlash hard drives how limited the market is -- basically photographers who can't afford the time to change their "film". But the trend is to smaller and more personal devices, and the market for tiny hard drives will be even smaller in 2008.

Santa got my kid a Sansa. I'm trying to hack it to limit the volume to something reasonable, although at full blast it isn't as bad as most. Anybody ever try hacking a plain old mp3 player to limit the output?

I didn't mind Cisco's ads on last season's 24. I would rather see the characters using real products like Cisco's IP Phones than some propmaster's incorrect vision of what an IP phone should look like. Ford also sponsors the show and they drive big Ford trucks. Toyota sponsored the DVD preview of Season 5 and you see Jack driving a Toyota. Last season on Smallville, Clark used the red Old Spice deodorant - it was in his locker and on the big banner over the football field.

Product placement is only bad when it's inappropriate and doesn't flow with the show. I sure wouldn't want to see Jack Bauer and Chloe O'Brien discussing Kotex Tampons or Vagisil cream as he's about to waste some terrorists. Or President Palmer plugging Uncle Ben's rice at a press conference. But if they are looking for a USB flash card containing Top Secret information, I don't mind them mentioning SanDisk.