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TiVo Causes Increase in Product Placement
ndansmith writes "Wired has got an article on how TiVo and other 'ad-skipping technologies' have caused an upsurge in product placements on network television shows. The 84% increase in product placements on TV over the last year has drawn protests from both the Writers Guild of America and the Screen Actors Guild. An example from the article: 'In a recent episode of the NBC series Medium, writers had to work the movie Memoirs of a Geisha into the dialogue three times because of a deal the network made with Sony earlier in the season. They even had the characters go on a date to an early screening of the movie and bump into friends who had just viewed Geisha to tell them how good it was.' Readers may also remember a controversial Cisco Systems product placement on Fox's 24."
Shake's 12 minute commercial for Boost Mobile!
OK, so they were taking a shot at product placement in TV shows, but still, damn. I hope everyone at Williams Street got some free phones.
domain combinatorics
While there are obvious disadvantages to this (such as crappier, cheesier scripts), couldn't this be a good thing? I mean, wouldn't you guys like it if commercials were cut down signifigantly? I know that I would.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
hehe. First thing I thought of after reading the blurb...
Nothing for you to see here. BROUGHT TO YOU BY CISCO SWITCHES AND NETWORKING APPLIANCES! Please move along.
From the article:
"some writers are putting up a fight, demanding more pay in exchange for scripting product plugs into their shows ."
So, in other words, it isn't like they are concerned about becoming shills...only that they aren't paid enough to be whores.
sig not found
I suppose it was inevitable really... they'll always find a way to get to us. Here's hoping we never get quite as bad as depicted in "The Truman Show" though. I almost crapped my pants when I watched "I, Robot" and "The Island" and saw all the stuff they were pushing along with the film.
Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
What can you expect from massive corporations?
Clearly they know their products aren't good enough to spread by word of mouth, so they must inundate everybody in the hopes that consumers will be indoctrinated with the product.
Maybe it's time for television to evolve into something else. How much cheaper is our current cable television due to advertisements? How much would it cost if we stripped the ads out of the shows and just paid more for cable access?
You just get to a point where it's not even necessary to block these things. Your brain just glosses over it and it's totally invisible.
And besides, what are we complaining about? A few seconds of program time? Be glad it's not less!
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
American Idol is horrible at this. The music videos for a ford explorer, or the coca cola??
Just wait though it will get worse, with the networking of video games and online services you will see billboards in the background of racing games for products.
30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
Score:5, Troll
Those familiar with my anti-copyright ideas know that I've promoted product placement as a partial solution to PVR commercial skipping.
The advertising community is, yet again, far behind. Tivo is so 2001. BitTorrent and the newer anonymous P2P apps take the problem a step farther.
With vidgeeks easily editing out commercials for P2P redistribution (this can be time consuming to be frame perfect), it is only a matter of time before they digitally smear out product placement. A little bit of work and you can nuke logos without the MTV blur.
What will advertisers do next?
My thought is that we'll see video and audio starting and stopping at different offsets. Imagine -- a scene ends with the audio ending but the video continuing. A character can walk off screen for entire seconds after they're finished talking. If Cisco paid to have the audio portion of the ad start before the video is over. P2P editors could nuke this audio.
The video could end before the audio, maybe bringing a logo in before a narration is finished. Still, the video portion could be edited to black.
Pop-up video advertising could be placed like A&E and Bravo do with TB show mentions. In fact, I believe we see more of these mentions to prep us for 3rd party pop-overs. Yet a vidgeek could humorously edit the pop-over to advertise their l33t skills.
So what is the answer?
DRM.
"Frankly Scarlet I don't give a damn... But get some nike air masters and I just might".
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
As I sit here, drinking a DITE COKE , reading slashdot... I'm asking myself, why don't I have a TIVO And if I did have one, which network would I choose to record... HBO ? Hmmm.........
I'm not fat, just big boned...
It's nice to see the revenue battle not taking the form of buying congressmen for once. It's a battle between those who don't view commercials (which means less money for advertising slots), and the need for the television company to make money. The latest move is to include product-placement. If it works, great. If it doesn't, then those tv shows will be doomed (or they'll stop doing it). It is an interesting battle, as it shows the problem of having entertainment for free. I think the internet sidesteps this issue as the cost is much lower, so more people creating the content are willing to be out of pocket. Unfortunately with tv, this just isn't an option because of the large budgets.
It could mean the death of tv as we know it. Although I believe that if it does mean the death of tv, tv shows will continue to live in DVD releases (as the audience directly pays for the product and has been successful).
They really aren't loosing many people. First you have to account for the small percentage of people who have a TiVo-type device that allows them to do this. Then out of those people, what tiny percent are technology-literate enough to figure out HOW to skip commercials while still being able to watch it as it airs.
To me it just seems an excuse to advertise even more when it's not neccessary. Brings in more advertising dollars to the TV networks.
google.slashdot
http://www.cisco.com/now/24/indexIPcommunications. html
Sorry about the quicktime...
Click away...
I want my! I want my! I want my Eee PC!
Instead of commercials, perhaps we could just have popups during the program itself. Sure, it might get annoying. It needs to be respectful in size though, nothing like what FX (I think) does.
With on demand viewing from certain cable providers, maybe they should start offering 24 hour viewing to certain t.v. episodes sans popups for like 99 cents.
I think a lot of P2P geeks suffer from the "Collector" syndrome. They want to faithfully record what was aired. I don't think they'll be too keen on editing out a scene with dialog about Coca-Cola. Yes, they take out commercials and network bugs, but I really doubt if placement got to be big that they'd do much about it. Too much placement makes for a crummy show, and who wants to download that anyway, regardless of the editing?
Second has to go to the movie Torque when they had that stupid bike fight in front the conspicously placed Mountain Dew and Pepsi ads...
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
Those Cisco 7900 series phones help give the command center in 24 the sexy techno-look that the set aims for.
Aren't you getting alittle too upset about it?
-- I have fans? Wow.
I don't watch a lot of American television and I was quite confused when, in Tommy Lee Goes To College, the producers blurred out some signs and t-shirts worn by the plebeans. Was this the effect of sponsorship to remove references to competitors? They couldn't all have been offensive (especially the billboards *grin*).
Does the fact that people are using the technology to skip ads not tell the advertisers that, maybe, just maybe, we don't want to see the ads for there crappy product they are trying to pimp? Seems to me that pissing off the majorty of your customers with silly product placements is not the best way to reach the few that do skip your ads. Just my thoughts.
K Man
How empty your life must be to revel in the death of someone you don't even know.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
Something about this still made me feel uneasy. Now I think I know what it is--the problem is that you don't realize you're being advertised-to. In magazines, ads which might be mistaken for articles are supposed to be clearly marked, usually by writing "Advertisement" across the top. Infomercials usually begin with "The following is a paid program." But infomercials are sneaky, sort of like subliminal advertising was supposed to be.
I don't specifically object to paid placement, but I'd like for it to be clear when paid placement is taking place. No idea how to do that without distracting from the show, though.
That's right everybody ! Blame Tivo ! Not the advertisers themselves...
Tivo made me do it...
"Well, ma'am, we've already established what you are; now we're just negotiating your price."
20 years from now the re-runs are going to look really weird. If they started doing this 20 years ago we'd probably be watching Scooby Doo episodes where Shaggy mentions how comfortable his Dead 70s Brand bell bottoms are. Then again, with modern technology they might start editing old tv shows inserting new scenes to do product placement or just dubbing over them with new brand names.
Wait till the porn industry starts using product placment, it will soon filter down to mainstream media in a more popular way!
<i>"After giving head nothing gets the taste out of my mouth better then mentos, my mouth is fresh and im ready to do the double penetration shot"</i>
It's wrong of me to complain about revenue-raising advertising in films which make millions. Isn't it, WILL SMITH???
Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
Or maybe even a SPELL CHECKER to make sure that at least words TYPED IN ALL CAPS or BOLDED WITH HYPERLINKS are spelled right.
Man. I can't wait till we do product placement for Speak and Spells.
-- I have fans? Wow.
The real solution is so simple, it may be beyond the grasp of marketers: make advertisements worth watching.
It's simple. Why do I skip commercials? They're annoying, loud, repetitive, gaudy, mindless. I don't want to watch them, and the producer believes I won't be watching them (I wonder why?), so they scream and shout to get my attention.
So make a commercial that's funny, witty, beautiful. And don't play it every commercial break. Make something I want to see again, and instead of skipping it, I'll take advantage of the TiVo and watch it again.
Such a thing is possible: such commercials already exist. They've few and far between, but we've probably all seen at least one or two. It's possible. If the existing ad agencies can't come up with them, find new ones. I bet there are a thousand independent filmmakers out there who could come up with 30 second clips that fit this bill on half the budget they usually spend.
This is the real solution, one that doesn't involve literally forcing us to watch with DRM and legislation. Which is going to alienate people? Making something they desire, or making it illegal to avoid something they don't?
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
The day I see bond drive up in a pontiac is the day i never watch movies or television ever again. I don't care how much they pay, when the story has to be significantly altered or create something out of character than advertisers have gone too far.
I mean c'mon could you imagine Q handing bond the keys to a pontiac, or a ford, or any car that is not up at an unattainable status?
Good - Victorias Secret product placement.
Bad - Hemorroid cream product placement.
I'm tired of the networks complaining about loss of ad revenue due to fast forwarding through their ads. I've had a TiVo for going on 5 years now and I have to say that I watch more ads now than I did before.
/.) and not paying too much attention; the TV is just on in the background and I glance up now and then to view it.
Seriously, I don't watch that much TV but what I do watch, I watch multiple times, usually because I'm multitasking doing something else (like posting to
When the comemercial break comes on though, I'll grab the remote and fast forward through the ads. Since TiVo doesn't auto-skip, I watch the whole commercial break, albiet at quadruple speed. I'll even stop it on ads that grab my interest. Once the show comes back on, I resume playback and go back to whatever I was doing.
So really, some company that airs ads in shows that I watch are getting more than their money's worth.
...said the Anonymous Coward.
I'm used to product placement. I read Slashdot.
I watched a Korean drama with a friend and I swear the only purpose of the show was to sell the sound track and promote the artists. Every single episode there were 5 songs that would always have to be played no matter what.
I cann't get up and walk to the kitchen when there's a product placement. That's a bummer.
Sorry to get all zen and granola on your collective ass, but... ...if you're addicted to garbage jolt cola plotlines and corporately constructed electronic imagery, a few extra grams of brainwashing aren't what you and your spiritual arteries should be worried about.
Put your eyeballs on something that will fill your soul and nourish your being.
Better still, turn the motherfucker off and roll your own.
Selah.
- TV show characters taking time out of the actual plot to discuss how great a particular product is with other characters (already there, almost)
- The same characters breaking the "fourth wall" to address the audience about how great a product is. Think Malcolm in the Middle, only instead of witty comments, we get the scoop on how awesome his new deodorant smells and feels. And how it gets the ladies.
- The same characters, now taking a 20-30 second timeout from the plot to promote a product. These commercials will probably do better than regular commercials, since they'll be using characters you have already tuned in to watch.
And then we'll be back where we started, only worse off.
The solution: Targeted advertising.
I know we all hate bad analogies but I see the TV advertising market like I see advertisements on the web. Crappy advertisements that you don't want to see, but are thrown at you regardless, will get ignored, edited out, or just wind up pissing off the consumer. But if cable TV can figure out a way to show people ads that appeal to them in a way that is subtle, like Google adsense does, the consumer will be much more willing to tolerate them and may even find them useful.
I don't think that TV will ever die; it will just continue to change as it has done since it began and the advertising schemes will have to keep changing as well.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So the question isn't "are they whores?"; that's a given. The question is, should they charge more for more unpleasant/degrading services. I think you'll find that your friendly neighborhood hooker charges more for anal than she does for a quick hand-job--why shouldn't these guys do the same? :)
Congressman DeLay!
I didn't know you posted on SlashDot!
W
...did a couple going to an advanced screening of the film manage to bump into their friends who had already seen it?
this is my third time reading about it, and i just noticed that.
Let them try it, I'll filter them like every other company's policy I don't like. Every time I hear "innovating", I instantly think "don't buy from them" now. I'll just add "insert lame advert here" to my list of companies I don't trust, because they're using lies and buzz words instead of standing by their products for their quality.
I like muppets.
OK, I read the first link in your post, and I have no fucking clue as to what you're talking about. I can't even figure out the context. Is this some TV thing you're talking about?
I don't respond to AC's.
Television is over; has been for some years now. There's just been too much nonsense to wade through, compared to the better signal-to-noise ratio of books, pre-reviewed cinema movies, online gaming, DVDs, the web, and dare-I-say-it, Real Life. (Add downloading if you're into that.)
Passive entertainment. Inferior, passive entertainment. Intellectual non-existence. Market exploitation. Zillions of utterly interchangeable situation comedies and music videos. Surplus ethnocentrically North American content. Dubious 'sensations'. Vaccuous 'celebrity'. Non-news. The lowest common denominator. Being made to wait (or pay, or both) for what you want to see. The dearth of "Artistic Integrity", now that you mention it.
Thanks, TV, for the Buffy Musical, some interesting sports events, and whatever else it was you gave us.
I didn't mind Cisco's ads on last season's 24. I would rather see the characters using real products like Cisco's IP Phones than some propmaster's incorrect vision of what an IP phone should look like. Ford also sponsors the show and they drive big Ford trucks. Toyota sponsored the DVD preview of Season 5 and you see Jack driving a Toyota. Last season on Smallville, Clark used the red Old Spice deodorant - it was in his locker and on the big banner over the football field.
Product placement is only bad when it's inappropriate and doesn't flow with the show. I sure wouldn't want to see Jack Bauer and Chloe O'Brien discussing Kotex Tampons or Vagisil cream as he's about to waste some terrorists. Or President Palmer plugging Uncle Ben's rice at a press conference. But if they are looking for a USB flash card containing Top Secret information, I don't mind them mentioning SanDisk.
This just pisses me right off.
One of the major reasons I hate television advertisements so much is that I feel I'm being manipulated, and therefore turn on my defenses. It is difficult to enjoy something that raises your defenses. Television shows already get me agitated due to their warped realities and out right lies. It's impossible not to be affected by something you are open to constantly babbling at you... and if it babbles bullshit, then your brain becomes full of bullshit. If I didn't have a MythTV box which automatically skipped commercials, I likely wouldn't even have a TV. It would bother me too much. Now with an increase in product placement in addition to the stupidity of shows, I'm starting to think I may have to ditch my TV anyways. It makes me angry.
On the other hand, it would likely be a better world if everyone cut down on the amount of TV they watch.
Someone mentioned targeted advertising as a solution....
/., they don't want to see female hygiene product commercials... bzzttt they are no more. That is just one example.. so the targeted advertising thing is workable, and for good reasons. Those who want it can opt-in for any commercials that are rated high on the comedy scale etc. or aligned with other interests... say, if you like Nascar, you get the package of commercials that most Nascar fans opt for...
This is EXACTLY what is needed. Imagine that you use your remote control to pick the kind of advertisements that you want to see on your cable system. This allows families to avoid the beer and sexual explicit type commercials around young children etc.
It also allows you to tell the networks exactly what kind of advertisement that you want to see. Say, for the 20-something single males who are always reading
Perhaps they can divine from your viewing habits what commercials are going to work better... so that the cable television companies become advertising brokers, delivering targeted advertising. I only watch certain channels, so there are commercials that really don't apply to me... I don't need to see advertisements for network television because I don't watch it... I have no kids, so Toys_R_Us is not on my list either...
This is very workable, but requires that networks allow cable operators to be advertising brokers rather than just network pipes...
If you think that DRM is changing things, wait till you see what this would do to video based entertainment! When Comcast or other start buying up advertising agencies... look the fsck out!
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
With a regular television show the commercials are inserted by the local affiliate as the show is being broadcast. In this way the commercials can be localized for the viewing audience. So, if you watch a five year old television show the commercials are current and not frozen in time from five years back. Now the 'commercials' are a fixed part of the content, and it will not be possible to extract them later.
But, this begs me to wonder... Advertisers pay for each time a commercial is run. With this new model will they find themselves having to pay a small fee every time a show is aired as a re-run?
-Chris
-- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
Given the large number of TiVo articles posted here, maybe it is time that you guys started using the TiVo logo (the little TiVo dude) instead of the generic TV icon.
Such ridiculous forms of product placement are likely to cause people to turn against the products being advertised. The best sorts of product placement are the subtle ones, like using GMC or Ford trucks in the big chase scene in your show, or having your main characters eating McDonald's or Wendy's french fries while they talk about tracking down the latest criminal threat.
When advertising seems out of place or contrived ("The Cisco network is defending itself" or the giant Pepsi ad in the middle of the Final Fantasy movie), people may remember it, but they'll remember that it ruined whatever movie or show they were watching at the time. There are reasons why game shows don't put the logo of their sponsor in the show's set anymore (they used to in the '50s): people get tired of being force-fed advertising, and it's more effective to give them a program they'll enjoy and include products only where they belong.
Heck, The Price is Right has been one giant advertising show for decades, and that's because they make the advertising pitch a part of the game. Learn from the people who make advertising work, you brash new ad execs - don't think you can just manhandle the public because you're hip and edgy.
AFAIK, TiVo hasn't placed any ads in television shows. Lets put the blame where the blame is due: the networks. They are the ones putting more product placement, not TiVo. TiVo may be destroying their old revenue model, but they are not holding a gun to the networks head saying, "its time for product placement." The networks are doing that on their own.
I meant to say paid placement is sneaky, not infomercials.
I don't see the problem. One hour of the Big Brother contestents drinking Coke (tm), sitting on Ikea (tm) sofas and wearing Gap (tm) hoodies could pay enough to fill the remaining 23 hours with fresh Simpsons episdoes.
I quit!
Taking out commercials makes sense: Cuts your download time by a third, saves you the time of actually watching them. But smearing out product placements? Too much work for too little payoff.
paintball
There is no evidence that it is the usage of Tivo or other services that are 'causing' the rise in product placement. For instance it has been pretty prominent in movies and long before tivo gained any traction - instead advertisers figure they can get more eyeballs and more revenue this way. If Tivo had never been invented chances are we would still be seeing this increase.
LetterRip
If you pay more you get more. HBO costs extra on top of the basic cable package, but it is worth every penny.
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
... and I have most of them saved on my MythTV box at home. I'll transcode them, chop 'em up on my Mac and post them on Bittorrent later if you'd like. Would that make me part of the problem or part of the discussion?
"In a recent episode of the NBC series Medium, writers had to work the movie Memoirs of a Geisha into the dialogue three times because of a deal the network made with Sony earlier in the season."
Poor SONY they have to insert advertisement all over.
My suggestion: When selling a SONY product you have to tell it to 3 persons and if they sing a paper for you that they got it you will have a 1% rebate for the next SONY purchase within a month!
"Oh, my god! It's full of ads"
I started my life with televison a few hours a day without ads. Now there's tele all the day but the usefull information is the same at best.
I can barely whatch the news and a few pop-sci programs. Even programs about nature have product placements with "the best survival thingies" now...
FTA:
"Disgruntled reality writers went so far as to barge in on an executive meeting recently, demanding better wages."
Uhhhhh, why do you need writers for a reality show? Isn't it about, ummmhhhh, reality?
Hell, watch this advert and if your creative concept isn't up to the same standard, go back and EARN your money.
The money is there, the time to fill is short, there is no excuse for not creating a 30 second product that doesn't match up to reasonable standards.
dave?
I don't necessarily agree with the parent, but it would be great to work in some product placement in this death-a-thon. I have not heard a single plug for a common product in the last 6 hours of bumbleheads debating the pros and cons of a death penalty. Clearly the product placement people went to bed early tonight.
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
Companies are already looking to place products in reruns of older shows, going as far as to insert digial products. Video-technology company Princeton Video Image has for years used digital imaging to insert virtual first-down lines (with corporate logos) in football games and completely photorealistic but nonexistent "signs" behind home plate at baseball games. Now it wants to move into reruns, with technology that can seamlessly insert 3-D objects into video footage-a Pepsi on a desktop, a Lexus at a curbside, a box of Tide on a countertop-where there was nothing before. PVI is negotiating to do placements in reruns of Law & Order and hopes to strike deals with other syndicators and even first-run shows. "You could sell a box of cereal in the kitchen one [airing]," says PVI vice president Paul Slagle, "and dish soap in the next." PVI's Holy Grail: customizing insertions using interactive-TV technology-which is still distant and speculative-that would store viewer information (demographic details, even interactive purchases) as Web browsers do. Your TV would figure, Slagle says, "whether you're riper for a Cadillac or a Saturn." http://www.time.com/time/pacific/magazine/20010625 /tv.html
d s.everywhere.ap/
g /Pitch/1-hi/product_placing.htm
5 29039,00.html
6 457&seqNum=2
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Also the whole Tivo increasing product placemnet is nothing new. Here are a few articles from as far back as 2001:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/18/apontv.a
http://webserve.govst.edu/users/ghrank/Advertisin
http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=17
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0124-02.h
And here is Buisness Week's product placment hall of fame from 1998: http://www.businessweek.com/1998/25/b3583062.htm
and fuck the commercials and the advertisers.
And we download what WE want to watch.
No more canceled series because they were too distracting for the advertisers.
No more missing minutes from reruns of shows because the networks want to squeeze more revenue out of each episode.
No more crap like reality shows.
We can make broadcasters irrelevant.
Concept shows like Firefly are too hard to sell to the networks so they get ash canned and we just get screwed.
Shows are pitched in competition with each other and they're NOT pitched at US.
But if we could pay a couple of bucks (each, per episode, iTunes like) I bet we could get the shows WE want produced.
The internet effect applied to media means that we'd get exactly what we want and produced to what we can afford.
Screw the current supply-side oligopoly.
Its about time we used the internet to produce and deliver the shows we want to watch. If a lot of us want to watch it, it makes the producer some dough and we'll get to see more of it.
Let ClearChannel and Infinity Broadcasting flood the air wares with ads, they'll have killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
We'll listen to and watch commercial-free content that we want, where and when we want to watch it.
It OUR 1,440 minutes a day and I want us to have control over what we do with them.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
You gotta understand -- they MUST find a way to try to sell you something. It's only fair, isn't it?
I am not left-handed, either!
Maybe now all those beer cans on Cops wont be blanked out.
Does anyone honestly think the network producers WOULDN'T pursue product placement revenue if they were making more from advertising? That they'd just say, "No thanks, we value the artistic integrity of our crappy sitcoms more than the loads and loads of cash you're paying us to stick your products in our shows"?
This might not be their biggest problem (TiVO). Networks seem to have tapped into this mentality that tries the patience of its viewers every step of the way. It's not just the commercials any more. Now it's having to endure visual clutter like the station ID logo, and these rediculous sliders that zip in and out at the bottom of the screen just after we've already been subject to four or more commercials.
I've found this so annoying in fact, that I've started to look at alternative forms of distraction. Podcasts have grown to fill that niche. They're great- they are personal, it's easy to connect with the producers, and they are/can be eductional and/or informative. Best of all, there are few if any commercials, and NO ANNOYING LOGOS OR SLIDERS. That's gets my vote hands down.
Anybody remember in early episodes of ER, in EVERY episode there would either be a) somebody carrying a 'cow print' gateway box in the background. Or they'd be piled up in the corner.
However, my favorite product placement in ER, was how on the counter of the ER/receptionist area there was always a couple copies/boxes of CA Unicenter.
"Nurse this guy has a bad case of SNMPv3!"
-"How do we catch it?"
"Fire up Unicenter STAT!"
The story lists many good reasons I really don't watch any new shows, as well as several reasons I stopped going to the theatre, mostly stopped buying DVDs, etc.
A few new shows I started watching like The Dead Zone and Monk started off pretty well... Then the in-show advertising got too distracting for me, and I stopped watching. Occasionally, I'll catch one of the shows again, and marvel at how incredibly crappy it has become. Maybe it's just coincidence, but the rise is product placement and pop-up ads, seems to ALWAY coincide with the show getting real crappy, real fast. Same goes for older shows, like Law and Order... As the writing got worse, the in-show ads got bigger and flashier.
Movies have had the same problem. Is it coincidence that the downfall of Hollywood has coincided with the rise of product-placement in movies? If T-3 had been made a few years earlier, would it have been as good as T-2?
Now, to my point... Having used a DVR for a great many years now, I can safely say that ads are underrated. I would love to be able to watch a select few ads again, but it's not worth watching ALL of them to see a few interesting ones. Unfortunately, skipping throw commercials often leaves you watching the middle of the next commercial, rather than the beginning. Stations could use Tivos to their own advantage, by including a certain signal in the video to let DVRs know when a commercial begins/ends. Then, you have instant push-button access to skip to the end of the current commercial (if it is loud, flashy, repetitive, or otherwise uninteresting) and start at the beginning of the next. That would give advertisers a real chance to make their sales pitch to DVR users, and put the burden on the advertisers where it belongs, instead of the networks. I know I would certainly watch more commercials for things I'm likely to buy, as well as shows I'd be interested in, local events, etc.
And before I end this rant, I'd like to say how ironic it is that advertising is going backwards now. It started as live, in-show endorsements, progressed to completely unreleated commercials in-between segments of the show, and now is being put *back* into the show. Perhaps they made a wrong-turn somewhere?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I noticed that Albertson's grocery store recently placed LCD TV's above the magazine rack. Customers waiting in the grocery line are forced to watch commercials. I see this as a direct result of the ability to skip commcercials on Tivo. You have no control over the TV while waiting in line. I did, however, drape a magazine over the top of it to block the view.
. . . to stop watching TV!!!
If you haven't seen it, see "Josie and the Pussycats" (the live action movie, not the cartoon.) It's a spoof of product placement.
I do believe that TV has been associated with the pushing of commercial products since its start, yes? So, what's the problem? TV is not a "pure" art like the movies try to tell us they are. Come on people, it's TV for Christ's sake...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
All DVRs should have the following features:
- Skip N minutes forward/backward, for example "3-skip" jumps 3 minutes forward, "3-replay" jumps 3 minutes back.
- Jump to minute N of the program: "2-3-jump" takes you to minute 23, "1-1-5" takes you to 1:15
- Transfer shows over the network to a PC, preferably without DRM, for burning/conversion to iPod/whatever.
- Bonus: Detect commercial breaks and allow jumping to the next commercial break start/end point.
- Double bonus: Skip the commercials automatically.
What the hell is with people forcing videotape like behavior on a fully random access medium like a hard disk?
Oh, and all those features? Available today in a DVR near you that is not TiVo.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
advert something that a lot of nerds could care less about, BREAK OUT YOUR WEAPONS!!!
Shouldn't the article be: "There has been an upsurge in product placements on network television shows, and it MIGHT be caused by TiVo and other 'ad-skipping technologies'"
My UID is prime. Hah!
A few years ago, I decided to specifically watch for product placement, so I tend to notice it enough to make note of it. In general, I keep an eye out for shots that contain an identifying product logo when the logo adds nothing to the story. Some placement, like the Mc Donalds placement in The Fifth Element, are blatant and hard to miss. In I Robot, Wil Smith's "retro" possesions (shoes, music player), arent so subtle. The intrusive ads in Minority Report are odd, they are blatant, but the mechanism for the advertisement is relevant to the plot. Others are easier to miss; Jackie Chan movies seem to feature a Pepsi logo of some sort more often then not.
Even good product placement is not too hard to spot if you look for it. In general, if manage to notice that one person has, for example, a Nokia phone, then its a safe bet that every other phone will be the same brand. The car driven by the principle character is a favorite target for product placement. Soft drinks are most often one or the other.
24 Usually handles product placement pretty decently, but I concede that they do a suprising amount of it. The placement for Cisco was perhaps the most blatant, but not quite jarring enough for me to make too much of it. 24 Product placement tends to encompass the following products (that I have noticed),
Computers: Alot of CTU equipment is Dell. Season 4 had a few Alienware laptops as well.
Cell Phones: I think Jack uses a Nokia phone.
Cars: A great deal of Ford SUV's. It appears that Season 5 may use Toyota placements, based on the teaser from the Season 4 box set.
I consider bad product placement to be any sort of product placement where the product in question becomes the focus of the camera instead of the story at hand. 24 Usually does ok, the Cisco placement aside. They do alot of it, but its done as tastefully enough that it does not annoy me.
END COMMUNICATION
END COMMUNICATION
Okay, so some people use TiVo to skip product ads. So if product placement becomes more prevalent in place of those ads, I guess that means people will start skipping shows. ^_^
FX is the worst offender. I was watching Disclosure once, bad enough, and the fucking Nip/Tuck ad at the bottom of the screen was metal on metal.
You're not seeing that that there are only 1,440 minutes per day.
As long as YOU don't get to pick a product, you're just arguing about the size of the dildo up your ass and how hard some creativity-challenged accountant is ramming it up there.
Until YOU are in control, the media oligoplies are going to ignore you, what you want and when you want it.
TiVO is a stop gap that doesn't really work. It might give you some control over when you take your pabulum but its still pabulum. If all that is produced is crap, you still end up eating "brown sausages".
Download it and pod it, listen to it or watch on a set hooked up to your computer when YOU want and the entire problem changes.
For the producers, it morphs from
"How do we pitch this idea so that it looks like what the advertisers want" to
"Hey, you wanna fill your ears/eyes with this? What's it worth to you?"
Leibnitz said "Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one." He was referring to the oligopolies which shaped what ideas were circulated in his day.
Mao said "Freedom comes from the end of a gun." He was referring to the need the Chinese had to free themselves from imperialist aggression. (This is irrelevant to the matter under discussion, but I feel very political tonight.)
I say, "Freedom of the media comes from having control over what we fill our senses with." I am referring to the fact that until we get around the oligipolies, we are just pawns in their game.
Radio sucks because we're not 'in the loop.'
TV sucks because we're not 'in the loop.'
Movies suck because we're not 'in the loop.'
But podcasting is real and can generate just as much money for content producers as the current media without costing as much because we won't have to pay for all the fucking leeches, pimps and whores.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
so explain american movies for the last 20 years or so. i mean come on now, it is just getting ridiculous.
I must be soul-sucking enough to write the dreck that is on TV, knowing your bosses are making more money so you can be forced to write even more dreck with product-placement would be too much.
Soul sucking? So what. That's the tradeoff you make for a somewhat reliable paycheck, you get to implement someone else's vision not yours. If they are not willing to quit their job and live in a small cabin near a pond while they work on their great novel they don't get to talk about artistic integrity. Although I'm overstating things, I am half serious.
Advertising does not have to rule your life!! It's true. When the ads come on you can just mute the TV, go get a snack, talk to your buds, or do something else. You can leave it unmuted and just sit there taking it in. It won't kill you or even hurt you I promise. Advertising does not have to lead directly to a major life change and monastic denial of something you once enjoyed. It's not a drug and you're not an addict.
I really like to watch football--programming where the ads are primarily trucks, beer, steak, and drugs. But I drive a small station wagon, don't drink beer, rarely eat steak, and rarely take drugs of any kind. And I manage all this without a PVR--yes that's right, exposed directly to the advertisements! The secret is simply to make decisions about my consumption rationally rather than emotionally or impulsively.
The consumer culture is the ultimate class warfare. Rich people run companies and sell things to take money out of the pockets of other people. But it's a double hit on the consumers, since by purchasing rather than investing they are not only forfeiting their money for unnecessary expenses, they are ALSO forfeiting all the money they could have made with that money. Literally every time you buy something that does not appreciate, you are giving away potentially thousands to tens of thousands (or more) future dollars. But it doesn't have to end badly.
What I'm trying to say is that you run your life, not the advertisers. That's why I don't feel the need to give away my television simply because my favorite shows have ads in them. *I* determine the effect of the ads on me, not the ads. So I can choose to simply let them run and ignore them, and continue to make rational decisions about how I spend my money. If enought people do the same, at some point advertisers may figure out that they are wasting their money and stop paying for ads and airtime... But I doubt that will happen very soon.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I stopped watching tv altogether, gave it and my pvr to a friend. Now instead I watch DVD (on PC), go out, and generally feel better. You do not realize how much advertisement on tv is annoying, until all you consume is dvd ad-less films/series...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
When I lived in the USA (British native for reference), I found your TV unbearable. Adverts popped up at random timings and without any kind of warning. Here in the UK, you can actually plan aroud the commercial breaks - it's a half-hour program, you get a few minutes after quarter of an hour. Just right to nip to the loo or make some tea.
I'm hoping that it doesn't spread like trailers on DVDs is starting to. I bought a DVD recently and up came trailers for other DVDs the company marketing people thought I might like. Will definitely be keeping an eye out for which company releases the next film I might be tempted to buy. Same applies to the two-minute piracy warning - I paid for the DVD. I am NOT their target audience.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
...sucks. It is always annoying to recognize some products and get the feeling they are there because somebody pays money for it...
Here's a thought: Instead of spending thousands or even millions trying to cram crappy products down people's throats --Put all that money into better products for less money.
For a product or company that's fresh on the scene, advertising might be needed in order for people to be aware that your product exists. For long established companies and products why do we have to have them shoved in our faces during all our waking hours.
I'm not a comsumer of most of this crap they are selling these days no matter how flashy their commercial is or if they can manage to get a stupid jingle burned into my head for a little while. If they cut 95% of the marketing budget and used it to produce higher quality product, and/or cut the price I have to pay for it I'd be a heck of a lot more interested, and I'd pass on word of mouth telling others where to get a better product for less money.
like in Germany. Does this mean they will not be able to export those shows and thus losing a lot of revenue or will they just try it anyway, get caught and banned? Or will these countries get edited versions, 70% shorter... ;-)
Timo's Audio Software http://www.esseraudio.com
Given the number of articles here that are little more than thinly disguised advertisements, it's ironic to see an article about product placement...
It's official. Most of you are morons.
I'm hoping that it doesn't spread like trailers on DVDs is starting to. I bought a DVD recently and up came trailers for other DVDs the company marketing people thought I might like. Will definitely be keeping an eye out for which company releases the next film I might be tempted to buy. Same applies to the two-minute piracy warning - I paid for the DVD. I am NOT their target audience.
That pisses me off, too. I think it's part of a secret plot to make pirated dvds actually more attractive (ignoring the price) than the real thing. I'm not sure how the movie industry expects to profit from this though.
Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
or we'd have had Carlsberg pumps in the Prancing Pony, Pippin and Merry would be smoking Golden Virginia and Frodo/Sam/Gollum would have used the 2006 Land Cruiser to get through those irritating Dead Marshes.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Over here in the UK the mobile phone company orange runs movie ads in cinemas.
The basic plot of which is a bunch of marketing types from orange proceed to ruin a movie, with product placement, ringtone tie-ins and general marketing bollocks.
The punch line being "don't let a mobile ruin your movie"; A public service announcement to turn off mobile phones in the cinemas.
Although these are satirical ads, you just know that the writers are basing the marketing droids on real people/events.
Most people who when they see great art get a touch of enlightenment, a few weasles however want to use it as a method of selling you stuff!
But Netcraft confirms that TV is dead!
Slightly offtopic: There's a swedish supermarket that has made a commercial comedy miniseries for a couple of years now, promoting the store and its products. Pretty fun stuff if you know swedish and highly successful. It was the first of its kind in sweden produced this way.k lamfilmer_ny&page=10 ./ 01961_2249_wis_l.wmv ):
150 of them can be seen on their site http://www.ica.se/FrontServlet?s=butiker&state=re
I made a rough translation on this one ( mms://qstream-wm.qbrick.com/01961/reklamfilm/2004
(Ulf, employee) So you say that there is a new guy starting here?
(Stig, the store owner) Yes, it's my sisters husband. He's been a "dad at home" for 22 years and now he want to figure out his potentials.
(Ulf) Your sisters husband? How is he then?
(Stig) Lazy, thick headed, can't do a thing.
(Customer) But then he shouldn't work here.
(Stig) Excactly, but as I said, he's my sisters husband. Ah, here he is now. Welcome Rune!
(Rune, eating from a bag of chips/crisps, probably taken from one of the shelves) These are good!
(Owner) Ah how nice. This is Ulf and he will teach you how it works around here.
The kid in "Surface", who is getting into so much trouble for the destructive behavior of the creature Nimrod, got a new iMac G5 to replace that iMac G4 in his bedroom after just a few episodes.
I should have gotten into more trouble when I was a kid.
Product placement is getting silly when you start seeing it in ads for other products. Last time I was at the cinema, I saw a car advert (possibly Toyota, can't really remember), with a ridiculously obvious iPod somewhere in the first few seconds.
So did Apple pay Toyota to place their products in the advert? Or are Toyota just trying to appeal to the Apple fanboys?
In a story about a union standing up for its employees, I was kind of expecting to read more "if he doesn't like it, he can quit his job, divorce his wife, abandon his kids, divorce himself from civilization and live in a shack! It's free enterprise, mofo!" comments.
Or do those only appear when discussing tech industry workers?
Viral Videos & Ads site has one (Metamorphosis) of the AXE commercials. Are there any more out there?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
OK, so the problem is that adverts have become so intrusive in programming that the audience will spend hundreds of dollars on a device to avoid them. And their solution is "add more adverts which reduce the quality of the shows which attract our audience"? What a great bit of creative thinking.
I don't know how anyone watches US TV, anyway. I find the less than 10 minutes an hour of adverts on commercial channels here (UK) annoying enough and from the constant "fade-to-black and recap a little" you see in US programmes like Lost or ER, TV in the US is adverts with the odd show crammed in between them.
product placement is getting bigger, but it's not because of tivos. i don't know many people with tivos, i'm guessing about 1% of the population has them.
the reason is because there are 80-200 channels that people can just flip through and never have to watch a commercial. if you just watch three channels at a time, you'll never see a commercial.
Television's primary product for sale is not the junk featured in ads, it's YOUR eyeballs. Where do networks get their primary source of revenue? From selling your eyeballs upstream to corporations. The TV shows are just crummy hooks to get your eyeballs for a little while. Is there some level of art, acting, or writing involved? Sure, a little. But the VAST majority of TV programming is happy, blinky stuff to keep you hooked for just a few more minutes.
I admit that I like plugging in for a little brain-nap myself, but don't forget there ARE other forms of entertainment. I mean, let's not elevate the so-called art of television to some level that we think they're above blatent product placement.
This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
If i had ever bought a DVD with a 2 minute forced viewing ad or warning, i'd take the dvd back complaining that it didnt work in my dvd player, and get another movie for the same price, then off i go to the pirate bay to pick up the movie WITHOUTH the ad.
Even without Tivo, we've gotten to the point where we just tape everything on the VCR and watch it later. Usually, I'd rather watch tv on the weekends, but most of the shows I watch are during the week. So I just tape them and watch them later. This has been possible for 20 years. I don't know why it hasn't been a problem before. I think that tv shows are just looking for an excuse to put out more ads. I mean, I don't know "that many" people with tivos. certainly not a big percentage compared to those who tape shows and watch them later on their vcr.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
This isn't even "product placement," it's "logo placement."
In the interests of fairness, I must point out that we are a happy Apple family.
Doh.
that's stealing, and it's a sin.
Can product placement be any more obvious than this?
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
Last season I started to watch the Shield on FX, after having watched the previous season on my computer by bittorrenting the episodes a day or two after they were released, and I found that the downloaded episodes made for a 1000% better TV-watching experience. No sliders, no moving graphics in the bottom of the screen, no station ID logos, and higher quality than my analog TV.
Someone should clue the local TV stations into a phrase: "value added." They have none. Right now they exist only because they have a monopoly on content (at least at the level of effort that most non-technical users are willing to expend). But as that monopoly breaks down and viewers start to get flooded with content from other places, they're going to be in real trouble.
I still watch a few TV shows, mostly as a social thing with friends, but if it weren't for the fact that we just enjoy getting together once a week and ordering pizza, I'd probably just cancel everything but my basic cable subscription and watch tv shows when they hit NetFlix.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I'm supprised this hasn't happened yet, is there some law stopping it from happening. I wouldn't mind watching my show and them having a "John Smiths" pump at the bar, or a show cast member showing off their new Nokia N70 to their mates etc. Something like "The Truman Show", but just not as obvious. Bravo (UK) are showing The Ultimate Fighter 2 series now, and for the last 3 episodes every morning when it follows a fighter into the bath room, the camera zooms in on a Lynx roll on deodorant of some kind, has it already started? The reality shows could maximise on this ten fold.
Although I'm not sure how much computer time on the systems that do this costs, you can also just shoot a scene with the actors holding a "green screen" object and then replace it later. You'd have to be pretty careful with it, but they've gotten rather freakishly good with the computer-aided chroma keying lately; e.g. George Lucas swapping out objects that weren't even originally filmed this way in the DVD release of E.T. I could totally see a situation where in the original shot the actor just holds a green can-shaped object, and then the network release of the show has a Pepsi can dubbed in, while the DVD release has a brand-neutral generic one.
If I was George Lucas, I'd be calling up the network executives and telling them the pricing options for doing this sort of work today. You could even go so far as to create different advertisement versions for different regional markets. (Someone walks into a grocery store -- in New England it's a Big Y, but in the mid-Atlantic it's a Harris Teeter, etc.)
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I agree, and it's absolute worst when those sliders happen during a fast paced game like basketball. Or the last two minutes of a football game and the score is tied and we have to listen to who's f-ing who on an "All New Desperate Houswives."
It makes me sick. At least take a tip from Google and target your adds
And a 2 minute forced ad is stealing my time. and money. wasting my electricity to power my home theatre to view 2 minutes of crap before i get to watch what i've already paid for.
Do you really think any movie release group is going to keep the ad in place? They might throw it in at the end as a joke, but that's about it.
What point is there in putting a 'plz dnt warez me' message on a dvd? none. and i refuse to own any dvd that has one. but i'll still watch the movie!
How ironic that millions of Christians do precisely the same thing about a man who died 2000 years ago and hasn't been seen since. Oh wait, that's ok because he commited suicide... for a reason.
Next thing you know I am going to start seeing editted episode of Star Trek: TNG.
Worf: Captain, message coming in over *obvious dubbing moment* AT&T.
Picard: Patch it through.
*AT&T logo appears on view screen before person starts talking*
I think that will be when things hit the ultimate low. Well either that, or when they start putting product placement in shows where they should not be.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
Every time I turn on the damn TV, I get bombarded with people telling me that I really DO need a new home, that the more green pills I pop the better, and that I should try various feminine hygine products or risk severe discomfort (not to mention the news which is half an hour of government ministers lining their pockets at our expense, and dozens of innocent people dying horiffically every day).
The worst part is, there isn't even any shows left to make it worth putting up with this crap. Who the hell wants to watch yet another rip-off of Everybody Wishes Raymond Would Piss The Hell Off?
It's no wonder I haven't turned my TV on in over a year. If there's a show I want to watch, I either download it off the net, or buy it on DVD. The constant force-feeding of ads and bullshit have completely turned me off TV. I feel at least some satisfaction in knowing that they won't be getting any advertising revenue because of me.
But if they start putting ads straight into shows... well, I suppose I'll just have to read more. Who knows, maybe this is a blessing in disguise!
We're geeks... We're the sorcerers of the modern-day world. --
Both of those looked like something I might watch. I'm boycotting them now.
Yay for selective and hypocritical boycotting!
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Even worse, some of them now have sound effects!
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
"The Cisco System is self-defending" made me burst out laughing. I almost expected them to look straight at the camera and give an 800 number after that. I do wonder if Halliburton is sponsoring all the torture scenes, there seems to be rather too many of those than necessary.
I remember the late 80's.
We just watched our G.I. Joe and Transformers cartoons.
(I guess some people watched My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake.)
Those commercials even had commercials.
(Even though the commercial interruptions usually were for the same toys.)
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
Never thought of it like this before. It doesn't however make much sense since by the end of a korean series (wich tend to drag on a bit) you would be totally sick of the tune and hardly go out and buy it. While a song you hear once and is perfectly matched with a good scene you might want to hear again and go buy it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
This Hour Has 22 Minutes - The name of a Comedy/Politics/News program. I always assumed the name was mocking the commercial content. It's a half hour (22 minute) show.
Recently, I rented some half-baked movie (not Half Baked) at Blockbuster. The girlfriend and I were going to wait out the coming snow and watch a movie. I got two.
The first movie forced me (I despise beyond despise the DVD telling me I'm not ALLOWED to fast forward through certain parts) to watch a 5 minute commercial about the ills of piracy and inform me of who I'm hurting.
I took the movie out of the DVD player, brought it back to BB, and demanded (and got) my money back. I refuse to be force fed propoganda. I refuse to accept any sort of "indoctrination." I will continue to refuse such things.
The second DVD (Love Actually, see it) had no 5 minute clip about what a dirty pirate I am, and although I had to suffer through the FBI warning, I didn't feel like a criminal, nor was I forced to watch such offensive propoganda prior to watching the movie.
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
I predict that within the next year we'll see stations running a constant advertising crawler. They'l probably shrink the size of the actual content area and fill the margins with advertising, much like CNN does with its stock ticker, weather, etc. Ha! Try to skip that! I further predict that within another year this practice will be commonplace and used on the majority of channels.
In fact, this may drive wide-screen format for shooting new shows. The shows will be shot in 16:9 and broadcast full-screen, with the ads taking up the remaining space. And no, those of you with wide-format TVs won't be able to just crop out the ads. Some shows will be broadcast with the content at the top of the screen and ads at the bottom. Some will have the content at the bottom and ads at the top. Some will have content in the middle and ads both top and bottom. And some will even flip the ad and content panes mid-show. If you want to see the shows ad-free you'll have to buy the DVDs. (Or, of course, download pirated copies that have already been cropped.)
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
My wife and I just discovered some new features that were rolled out
for our series 2 Tivo-
If you have your tivo online, you can get some of this stuff:
Yahoo Photos
Yahoo Weather
Yahoo Traffic
Buy movie tickets
Music Streaming
Podcasts
Games (three simple ones)
I tried some of this before, streaming MP3s and Pictures from my PC,
but it was not as impressive as this, and it depended on my PC being up
and running with the Tivo server software.
The interface to all this stuff is slick and nicely done, as always.
My wife loves the marble game "same game." She won't stop playing it.
I have struggled to get a MythTV box up and running in the past, but
with little success. Remote problems, kernel problems running a HD
tuner, etc. Spent hours and I now have a limping system. Tivo makes
me happy, although it could be better:
- More HD space. 80 GB is silly these days.
- More tuners. I need 2 normal and 1 HD OTA at least.
- More games
- Customizable. I would like to have my top 5-6 things on the main
menu, not the marketing garbage Tivo puts in there. I want a shortcut
to games or photos under "live tv"
We may have to get another Tivo When the time cones. I have been
avoiding doing it now, as two tivos apparently do not work out
conflicts or share programs seamlessly. I want one big honkin Tivo
that does everything. I wish I could find a vendor that sold decent
Myth Boxes, that might do as well as long as I don't have to set it up.
I originally posted this on alt.video.ptv.tivo as it was rejected as a
Run the commercials less often, maybe only once per half hour. Run fewer total commercials. But don't server everybody the SAME commercials. Make part of the "deal" for getting the PVR be that you will be asked to fill out a questionaire. You can leave it blank, or lie, but you will then be served irrelavant commercials. You will still get 2 min per half hour no matter what you answer, so you might as well answer honestly. You can skip them if you want, so it's up to the commercial writers to make sure you don't WANT to skip them. It actually INCREASES the number of ads the station can sell while DECREASING the ad time each individual gets. And since they can give real stats on the number of people they are reaching with each ad, they can vary the price of the ad accordingly. Almost like "pay per click" on the web. Add some interactivity to the ad so 1) people will bother to watch and interact with it, 2) you get some real stats as to whether they DID watch and interact with it.... The technology is all there. Use it. A TiVo is a PC! Even the crappy Explorer 8000 that the cable companies give away is a PC or sorts.
To be sure.
I'm curious, though, (I, too, buy almost-too-exhorbitantly-priced, legal DVDs) whether the cheap pirated DVDs also come with the imposing FBI/Interpol Warning message on them, too? You know, for authenticity's sake:)? I'm sure the producers ands buyers get a smile out of them, too.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
At every commerical break, they ran the most annoying ad for 'The Shield' imaginable. One of those 'let's have loud noises to jar people into looking at the TV' and 'lets say something shocking so people will starting paying attention to see if we really said that', in the same ad. Over and over and over. Apparently, they didn't quite understand that people watch whole shows, and they really only need such an ad once.
For people who had missed the first few seasons of Buffy and were watching every day to catch up, the repeated ads, about 10 in the two hour span of the reruns, were enough to drive them homicially insane, and I'm surprised no one at FX actually got killed.
This was in addition to the noise-making popups for The Shield they ran during the episodes themseves.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Things like that are why I like cable services like Video on Demand. I can order from a good selection of programs and don't have to wade through the crap. Then again I work for the local cable provider, and may be a bit biased.
Beware the fury of a patient man
- John Dryden
You say you don't want to watch that stuff, but have you watched it (e.g. any of the movies/shows mentioned)? Will you watch more in the future?
The statistics will whow what you do, not what you say you want to.
I understand that I have no basis for assuming that you've ever watched these things, but my response isn't only for you, but for the many who would say the same words, and still watch the trash.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
This has been possible for 20 years. I don't know why it hasn't been a problem before.
Small changes in usability yield tremendous change in adoption or use. Recording with a VCR, especially timed recordings where you had to set the bounds, was a major pain in the ass. It wasn't until relatively recently, maybe 7 years ago, that a few guides started printing special coded numbers that automatically set the times in the VCR, but it was still a nuisance - You still had issues like tape handling, the degraded quality of VHS, and non-random access. Blah. Most people would rather miss the show than bother with that, and of course that didn't facilitate watching while recording.
Watching while recording is, of course, how most ads are being skipped - After putting the kids to bed, we finally get started watching Survivor at 8:20, which is just enough buffer to skip virtually every ad for the rest of the show (it's a moment of sadness when you catch up to real-time).
I think that tv shows are just looking for an excuse to put out more ads. I mean, I don't know "that many" people with tivos. certainly not a big percentage compared to those who tape shows and watch them later on their vcr.
Everyone uses the phrase "Tivo" for a generic technology (which is unfortunate) - that generic technology is appearing in set-top boxes distributed and rented by cable companies (I have a wonderful Motorola 6812), media center PCs, among many other sources. Not only is there a vast number of people with PVRs, it is absolutely certain to grow by leaps in bounds very, very quickly.
If it fits the story, why not? It's not as though E.T.'s drinking Coors did anything to convince me that it's anything better than water with some small amount of alcohol in it. Then there was that episode of Sex and the City that did a pretty good job of convincing my wife of the usefulness of a Tivo. It didn't convince me there was anything on television I was willing to buy a Tivo for -- which I guess is why I am so unconcerned by the whole thing.
1. Though millions of people revel, it usually isn't the mere death that is celebrated. It is the entire life, suffering, teachings, death and ressurection that is celebrated by many.
2. He has been seen since. By many people.
3. You contradict yourself when you say He committed suicide. Either He was the Son of God and had the power to save himself (thus the rest of your "points" are invalid), or he was powerless to save himself and it wasn't suicide.
4. Plus, allowing someone to kill you, (though you've honestly tried to convince them that it's a bad idea to kill) is NOT the same thing as suicide.
5. Moreover, does it really count as suicide if you know that you can bring yourself back to life, AND DO IT in a few days?
Aside: The trouble with suicide is arrogance, selfishness, and lack of perspective. Someone throwing themselves on a grenade to save you isn't suicide, it's heroism.
I have not yet taken a DVD back to the store but my reasons for initially downloading movies was similar. I got frustrated at the forced viewing that I started ripping my own collection. This lead to my desire for a media center with the movies stored on my fileserver instead of reburning my rip to DVD. This worked for a while but soon realized I was wasting a lot of time because it was way quicker and easier to just download someones rip and pack of the movies I already owned then to rip them myself. More often then not, the quality was much better then my own rips because some people have a lot more time, knowledge, and motivation then I do to fine tune the encoding process.
I am now up to the MPAA fence and about to jump over. My process is to the point where I am questioning the first step of buying the original DVD to being with.
If you don't like ads/product placement on TV, then don't watch. I bet you could free up at least 10-15 hours a week - that's like getting a free day to do other things!
In the world of acting and cinema, there is the concept of the '4th wall' - this is the wall of the room that would normally be where the front of the stage is (which obviously isn't there, so the audience can see what's going on in the room).
The term breaking the 4th wall is when any kind of fictional performance breaks the carefully crafted illusion and distracts people from the presentation.
Well, product placements can be like that. I saw the episode of Medium that the article refers to, and it was rather jarring. It's kind of like interrupting the show for an add, *while the show is still running*. I suppose they can get away with this a little, but at a certain point, it just gets too distracting and you lose the flow of the story.
About the same time that I saw that episode of Medium, I remember seeing a couple other shows with prominent product placements that were equally jarring. I don't exactly remember the products (I try to block it out, so I don't reward the morons who are ruining my entertainment by remember the damn products), but the show was NIS, and they kept having characters discuss gadgets like I don't know, probably iPod and gameboy or something like that. Like I said, I try not to remember.
I mean, I don't mind product placements that are non-obtrusive, like someone working on a certain brand of laptop, in a scene that is logically part of the story, where the person would really be working at a laptop. I think both Apple and Dell have bought such product placements for their computers. But if the show goes out of it's way to highlight a product, it definitely breaks the 4th wall for me.
Yeah, product placement really galls me. After a long day at work, I come home and just want to unwind with a sitcom and a cold Budweiser, king of beers. But then I'm subjected to a bunch of product placement. I swear, it's enough to make me need an Advil, which is recommended by four out of five doctors. So instead of watching a sitcom, I go for a long ride in my Lexus, with its roomy interior, six-way adjustable seating, and powerful V6 engine.
I stopped watching television over a year ago. I dropped my cable service, and broadcast signals don't work in my area. I don't miss it at all. Now I rent movies and old TV series from GreenCine, so I can watch just the shows I want to, commercial-free. As an added benefit, it lets me preview DVD's I'm thinking of buying to make sure they're not 'evil' (e.g. forced ads). My DVD purchases have increased dramatically in the last year.
I rarely buy DVDs or pay to see a movie in the theater (last time I did that was in 1998 for X-Files). The last time (recently) I actually paid for a DVD, I was disapointed to find that there were three full length commercials at the beginning of the CD . . . before you got to the menu . . . that you COULD NOT skip . . . *sigh*
I predict that within the next year we'll see stations running a constant advertising crawler. They'll probably shrink the size of the actual content area and fill the margins with advertising
Spike TV and The National Network (both formerly The Nashville Network) has been there and done that already. I refused to watch ST:TNG on that channel. True, they used it mainly to promote themselves, the show they were airing, and the next show to air, but it's been done.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
There used to be a web site that had an archive of TV commercials; I can't remember the name of it. Sadly the site was taken down a few years ago due to huge bandwidth costs, but it was quite popular at the time, and showed that there are definitely entertaining commercials out there,
You're probably thinking of http://www.adcritic.com/. They didn't disappear, they turned into a paysite(!). Something is definitely wrong with your business model when people are willing to watch ads voluntarily and you still have to charge them for it to make ends meet. I recently visited the side and it kinda looks like they're back to being free as in beer, sponsored by Yahoo, but the site froze my firefox so I didn't examine it too closely.
A witty
Even given the fact that a majority of people don't have Tivo's, you have to follow the money. I am sure that a great many advertisers have been unaffected by this, but most people who can afford luxury products and services probably do have tivo-like service, or will have them soon. Thus people who advertise to people with spare cash to throw around will be disproportinately affected and will seek other mediums to fill the gap.
Wrong. You will subconciously recognize the brands on your next shopping trip and YOU WILL be more likely to buy them. Given the choice between a brand you "know" and a complete unknown, you will go for the "known", even if your "knowledge" of that product is through commercials you never paid attention to. If adverts don't work, why are they so common and expensive?
Hell, they even test the ads at 2x and 4x normal speed, to ensure that the logo and possibly the message are intact.
TV Networks sell eyeballs to the advertisers. Eyeballs which are attracted by content. The contract is between the advertiser and the network. People mistakingly assume that they are the network's customers. They are not, they are the merchandise. This should be a self-stabilizing system but apparently the audience accepts ever increasing amounts of ads.
If we accept to eat gruel, then gruel is all what we get. (Or rather Krusty-brand imitation gruel)
What I'm missing is a system where the tables are turned, where I can make a deal with an advertiser, selling my eyeballs directly if they supply quality programs, or simply pay for the program and avoid any advertising. This seems like a natural evolution as broadcasting becomes ever more irrelevant. An episode of your favorite show shouldn't cost more for a single viewer than the advertisers have to pay the network, which divided by the number of _actual_ viewers, is not much. Having me voluntarily accept an ad for a product that is relevant for me, instead of female hygiene articles or cialis, is worth a lot more
for the advertiser.
A witty
Last weekend's episode, Boost Mobile... hehehe...
"You're black, right? You sound black..."
Most of the pirate DVDs I have bought don't have the warning, unless they are an exact copy of a commercial set.
What if the vote is decided by raising hands?
Cable companies have to pay for channels like ESPN on a per user basis I believe. They also had to cut deals with local TV affiliates.
They have to pay more for ESPN than Hallmark channel, etc.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
The name "This Hour has 22 Minutes"is actually a play on "This Hour Has Seven Days", a very popular news/public affairs show in the mid-sixties.
It also references the fact that a half-hour tv slot is 22 minutes plus commercials.
You really really should try TiVo, it matched with your viewing habits perfectly. Personally I have the classic DirecTV Tivo and its a thing of wonder at only 5.99 a month. Unfortunatly they have recently replaced it with a Tivo knockoff, and you can't get TiVo through them anymore. :(
Houseguest takes the cake on product placement, basically being a hour and a half ad for mcdonalds.
I am not in anyway affiliated with Max Cannon
They've only been on the island for about 3 months. But yeah, product placement would be quite sucky.
I just orderd one on friday and cant wait for it to get here!!!1
This Sig for rent.
Read a book.
seriously, if the commercials and placements and logos (now with sound!) bother you too much, turn off the TV, and do something else with your time.
walk the dog. play with your kids. go out on a date. visit a museum. write some open source software. bake cookies from scratch (chocolate chip oatmeal?). change your oil. volenteer at a charity. change your bedsheets.
I work in the television industry, and I know how much corporate sponsorship plays a large part in the funding of both television and film. Most of your favorite (modern-day scenario) characters are wearing Timex watches, drinking Coke, talking on Motarola phones, and wearing Nike shoes. Companies pay for those out-of-focus billboards in the background to be recognizably from a specific company. All the vending machines on your favorite show will market only one brand of product. This has been going on for years.
What I think many people don't realize is that many television broadcast deals include a certain amount of advertising space, i.e. a contract will specify $X per show broadcast, plus a "bonus" of the television show owning a certain amount of commercial time. A television show then sell this commercial break time and hence can generate revenue from the ads that are played during the show. Without commercial breaks, the budget for a show can drop because they cannot sell commercial time.
Without the revenue generated by sales of commercial times, many shows would not have the budgets to continue production. This is another reason why there is more product placement in many shows. True, in previous years, product placement advertising wasn't necessarily so glaringly obvious. But if the viewer doesn't want to have commercial breaks, then a television series has to make money somehow. Granted, not every show needs that extra revenue to keep going -- but some do, especially smaller productions and those for the "fringe" markets. So before you protest that you don't know where the show ends and the advertisement begins, please remember: the consumer has demanded no commercial breaks, and has also demanded that their favorite television series have another season. There are consequences to every action.
I didn't even notice 24 had cisco stuff on it, if I had I'd probably thought nothing of it, but if I'd see some weird GooBooBox network hardware, it would hurt the immersion. If someone visibly drank coca-cola on a show I'd probably not rush out and buy a coke, but would think the character has a poor sense of taste and drink a glass of pepsi instead. :)
I do believe you are correct with the notion of constant advertising, however, I believe the shows will continue to be aired in the same size, but modified for HDTV, similar to ESPN HD, where the content is in a small box and advertisements or stats appear on the side and bottom.
I was listening to a podcast last night (Slashdot Review), and as it was coming to an end, I noticed there was still quite a bit of play time left. My curiosity was greeted with what I think was a pretty cool idea- they featured a band from garageband.com. I got to hear 10 Story Relapse for the first time. When you factor in the number of podcasts, and the various tastes that people have, I think this is a great way for a fledgling band to gain exposure. Talking about killing several birds with one stone...
... already features various products being placed, repeatedly!
If I had to pick between product placement and commercials, product placement wins hands-down every time. I would MUCH rather watch President Bartlett drink a Pepsi during the course of The West Wing than be subjected to diaper ads every ten minutes. We have to pay for "free" TV some how, and if product placements are the way, then so be it.
Most of you are probably too young to remember, but back in the mid 1960's, TV shows had about 8-10 minutes of commercials per hour. A season consisted of 32 episodes of a show. In other words, commercials accounted for about 15% of the program time, and there was about twice the content per season.
What we have now is more than twice the commercial minutes (more if you count the distracting sliders and logos and product placements), combined with half the content per season. In other words, less than 25% of the value proposition TV programming had before.
When any company removes 75% of the product, they should expect that their customers will be unhappy. Customers that still see value in the current situation have no reference. It's like hiring college graduates for 25% of the going salary rate for a field - they simply don't know any better.
Rent some old TV series on DVD, like the original Outer Limits. See for yourself the difference in the content, both in quality and quantity. Sure, they are low budget - but their entertainment value is high.
Television execs have lost sight of this basic part of the equation, and viewers are giving them a pass. I'm really surprised that there hasn't been more exploitation of the gap by independents and cable/satellite companies themselves. Some have their own unique programming now, but it tends toward things like news and craft shows. Where are the independent series? I've seen programs floating around the net (like Charlie Jade) that have small overseas markets. The programming is better than what's available from the networks.
Independents: Skip television, and go "direct2net"! I'll pay for downloads/DVDs of "high content" programming.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
So every writer has to compromise their vision in order to sell a product within their script? Doesn't that imply also a self censorship that will take place over time? Nobody wants to offend any companies-- how would you ever product place anything afterwards?
They feature paid-for music and at the end of the show you see:
...."
"A promotional fee has been paid by
If only every TV show and movie would have such a prominent disclaimer at the beginning and end.
WB goes even one better:
It's not just a disclaimer, it's a continuation of the advertisement - you hear the music in the background during the disclaimer. Honesty and transparency - something we should all have more of.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Tivo (and clones) moved it from a "remeber to set the clock" to a "I want this (pointing)" operation. Lots more of thoe 90+% can now do with a Tivo what they couldn't do with a VCR, even though the VCR was technically capable.
"Goober?"
...repeat after me...television became big because companies could sell us stuff. I wasn't around at the time but I'm pretty sure early television already had product placement (although it wasn't "subtle") -- the host of the show told you to buy "brand-X" cigarettes or use "brand-Y" to wash your clothes.
a quote from some drama group I saw in high school at a conference:
"theater is life. film is art. television is furniture."
I think that's relevant
I've noticed more and more "product blurring". I'm guessing this is when they couldn't come to an agreement with a product advertiser. This really bothers me when I notice it.
It was funny and sickening at the same time, but The Truman Show made light of product placement.
All depends how it's done - If a script requires a character to drive a car, have them drive a new Ford. If they have to buy soup, have them buy Campbell's. Obviously don't have them buy soup if the script is about a day at the beach.
Doesn't that imply also a self censorship that will take place over time? Nobody wants to offend any companies-- how would you ever product place anything afterwards?
?
This happens now all the time, and has been happening since the dawn of commercial television - Programs are constantly editing their content so as not to offend advertisers. That's the nature of the medium.
And don't forget the law enforced flag : the flag that will force all setups (be it TVs or PC) to disable cropping functions and force the displaying of ads. And penalty of "200 years prison" or "you die" to anyone who produce equipment that don't honor the flag or try to circumvent the hardware.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I have heard that people still watch commercials in spite of having Tivo. I think it's because we are so used to watching them. The catch is when a really bad commercial comes on you skip it and the rest. I certainly find that is what I do. Speaking of bad commercials, what advertising genius thought that hearing someone loudly chewing crunchy cereal is a good thing?!
Alex Proyas lost all shame long ago. He made "I, Robot" with Will Smith, remember?
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
While I agree with you and most others on this thread about the forced ads and all on DVDs...too expensive? Really...the ones I see out are avg about $20 or so...
I'd hardly consider that expensive...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Chloe: Please Jack, I'm not incompetent you know!
Jack: Is your concealed microphone in place?
Chloe: Yes, it's made up to look like a Kotex tampon, and I slipped it in place with some Vagisil cream.
brief pause
Jack: Chloe, that was way too much information.
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
Ah, yes, that was it. It looks like they've been bought out by the publishers of a magazine, and you can subscribe to both the magazine and the web site for $99/year. It doesn't look like they're currently offering anything for free.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
I actualy own a copy of Fight Club and Primer, both unopened. I bought them because i loved the movie. I originaly saw the full DVD quality movie on suprnova, wich mpaa shut down.
Lawsuits?
On Jon Stewart the other night, Jimmy Carter was saying that Jon Stewart's show is on too late at night, past his bedtime, but now that they had Tivo he could watch it the next day. A few of his other guests have also mentioned Tivo. I think I've seen House refer to it as well.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Start selling low-tech TV ad-buster stuff via eBay or on TV. Make up a catchy name. Charge $19.99 and then send four black cardboard sheets (a bit of area calculation would help here, offer different alternatives for bigger screens) c/w sticky-tack that people can affix to the front of their TVs depending on where the offending graphic appears. Offer a money-back guarantee, less shipping costs. Make sure the shipping cost covers all your expenses, plus a small profit.
3) Profit!
Wrong. You will subconciously recognize the brands on your next shopping trip and YOU WILL be more likely to buy them. Given the choice between a brand you "know" and a complete unknown, you will go for the "known", even if your "knowledge" of that product is through commercials you never paid attention to.
This is only correct if you let it be correct. You're not a fucking robot--use your head and think when you spend money and believe it or not, you can control what you buy and how much, despite any unconscious impulses. I have lots of emotions and impulses I don't follow through on every day--telling off the boss, punching the jerk, asking out the hottie (I'm engaged), etc. Reason and self control are part of what sets us apart from animals.
If adverts don't work, why are they so common and expensive?
Ridiculous logic, if you can call it that at all. You're simply assuming what you're arguing. "If my tiger-repelling rock doesn't work, why don't we see any tigers around here??"
Hell, they even test the ads at 2x and 4x normal speed, to ensure that the logo and possibly the message are intact.
They can test them all they want. I'm living proof that ads don't have to have an effect on what you buy. Thousands of people do it every day. I reject the "victim status" that I don't have control over my life, that the big bad advertisements will make me do what I don't want to.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I remember seeing that on Spike TV and Oxygen (the Oprah network) shortly after they launched. I don't think they kept the ad ticker for long. Sports networks love to sell sponsorship on the ticker during, say, "NFL Countdown Delivered By UPS Live From FedEx Field"* though.
* Actual show title on ESPN
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