Apple Orders 12 Million iPhones

Waqas writes "Apple has placed an order for 12 million iPhones to be built by a Taiwanese contract manufacturer, according to an analyst citing reports from Asia. The Chinese-language Commercial Times on Wednesday cited Taiwan-based sources within Apple's iPod component supply chain as saying the phone is due to arrive during the first half of next year."

Comments

It's all about the interface

[jmp_nyc]

While I don't care about a phone that plays music or video, I want a phone that has a quick, intuitive interface for placing calls and text messages to people in my address book. I find that each time I've had to replace my phone, I'm progressively less satisfied with the interface. It seems like Motorola et al are so worried about form factor that they ignore interface design.

For example, about 7 years ago I got a Motorola StarTac. It was the coolest form factor phone at the time, and had a reasonable interface. Each name in my phone directory could have multiple numbers associated with it, with each number having an icon for office, home, cell, etc. When I wanted to call someone, I first selected the name, then the appropriate icon from that person's list. It wasn't a perfect solution, but it worked reasonably well. Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers. If I have office, home, and cell numbers stored for the same person, I get three entries for them, making the full list of names much longer. Not only are phone makers not making steps forward, they're moving backwards.

Given Apple's track record, I'd say they're the most likely candidates to figure out an elegant cell phone interface, and I'm looking forward to the iPhone for that reason alone. If the interface is half decent, I'll be buying one to replace my RAZR.
-JMP

Re:It's all about the interface

[Dionysus]

It was the coolest form factor phone at the time, and had a reasonable interface. Each name in my phone directory could have multiple numbers associated with it, with each number having an icon for office, home, cell, etc. When I wanted to call someone, I first selected the name, then the appropriate icon from that person's list.

That's how the Nokia phonelist work. I can also set a default (say cell is the default unless I choose something else). It also have fields for email (nice when you need to email the person), and you can add notes.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Andy_R]

My Sony(spit!)Ericsson phone does that too - but in such an obscure way that I didn't discover that feature until I had the phone for about a year, long after the irritating micro-joystick used to choose which of a contacts's numbers to dial had clogged up. The software is at best clunky, the bare minimum that the makes could get away with, unless they the developers thought of something that would add a bullet point to the feature list. So I have a built in multi-track music sequencer, but not the ability to take a photo without a 5 second wait.

There really is a huge gap in the market for a phone that's well designed and has a well written software, rather than the botchware that my past SE and Nokia phones shipped with. How did my phone ship with the ability to play a 45 minute video clip, but no way to pause, rewind or fast-forward it?

Apple's problem is not that the other makers are subsidised, because their phones will undoubtedly be subsidised too (why on earth does the analyst think this would be an issue?) but that one size doesn't fit all. I want at least a 2 megapixel camera and 4Gb of ram, or if wish fulfillment is an option, OSX on a transmeta cpu... but the 'bare bones' market wants just a phone/ipod nano combo in a small form factor. If we don't see iPhone, iPhone Nano, and iPhonePro then a big share of the potential audience will be disappointed.

Re:It's all about the interface

[cweber]

[em]Given Apple's track record, I'd say they're the most likely candidates to figure out an elegant cell phone interface, and I'm looking forward to the iPhone for that reason alone.[/em]
You're right on the money here. Apple continue to show other makers how to not overload a music player. If they can pull off a sleek and functional phone, that would force the other manufacturers back to their drawing boards. Job's credo that you cannot design a product via focus groups still holds.

Re:It's all about the interface

[laurens]

Actually, you can still do that. On my (unbranded) RAZR I can select a name by pressing number keys or up/down, then choose from different numbers for that person by pressing left/right. It's a setting:

In your phone book, choose [menu] -> Setup -> View: Primary Contacts.

Now, every number with a certain associated name will be grouped under that name.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Durandal64]

Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers. If I have office, home, and cell numbers stored for the same person, I get three entries for them, making the full list of names much longer. Not only are phone makers not making steps forward, they're moving backwards.

Do you have Cingular? If so, that feature is still in the RAZR, although it's not very well-exposed (like so many things on so many cell phones). The RAZR's OS is different across providers I think. Anyway, to get multiple numbers associated with a contact, select that contact and hit the middle screen option. From there, choose the "Edit" option. Then go to the last option, "... More ...". That's the screen where you'll see "Add new ... phone number". The catch is that, if you sync with your computer, this association gets screwed up. The RAZR won't pick up multiple phone numbers for a single contact; it'll just add new contacts for each number. That's how it works on iSync and OS X anyway.

And yeah, cell phone UIs suck. Really, really badly. If anyone can fix that, it's Apple.

Re:It's all about the interface

[painandgreed]

I'll agree that it's all about the interface. However, I don't have much trouble calling or texting people on my phone list as I do accessing the internet. Ever since I found myself in at the end of a three hour road trip only to realize I'd lost my final desitination's address and my passenger was able to find it by looking their website up on the internet on his phone, that feature has been a must. However, it's way too much trouble to even do a simple search. I'm not talking about trouble viewing the pages, but simply pulling up Google, typing in my search, and hitting enter has proved much more troublesome than it should be because the interface sucks so badly.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true.

I know for a fact that Verizon's RAZR's have the same OS as all of Verizon's other phones, and can store phone numbers in the same way the GP could back in his Zack Morris days.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Salmar]

This is exactly the situation the iPod faced. I haven't yet found a better way to call someone than through Nokia's contact list, but that could be because of some fundamental design flaw in today's phones, which Apple has perhaps found. If Apple can actually improve on that design, they may launch the next generation of cell phone interfaces. I would be disappointed if they did any less than start a revolution.

Re:It's all about the interface

[jrumney]

Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers.

If its anything like the Motorola I used to own, it has this limitation for numbers stored on the SIM, but its internal phonebook is as good as any phone's. That said, every other phone I've owned for the last 8 years (Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, Sony Ericcson) has had no problem keeping numbers from the SIM card organized in the internal phonebook's structure.

Re:It's all about the interface

[UHBo2]

and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers. If I have office, home, and cell numbers stored for the same person, I get three entries for them, making the full list of names much longer. Not only are phone makers not making steps forward, they're moving backwards.

You still can, the number just needs to be saved to your phone and not your sim card

Re:It's all about the interface

[lieden]

Granted, I agree with you that the RAZR interface is no good. However, if you download one of the (unofficial) firmware updates, you can add this feature along with some other functionality. I think it's http://www.motox.us/

Re:It's all about the interface

[jrumney]

Apple continue to show other makers how to not overload a music player.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but my iPod has a photo viewer, PIM functionality and games. It's basically like my mobile phone, but without the phone. I don't know of any other MP3 player that is as overloaded with useless features.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Zhari]

Are you storing the numbers on the SIM card or the phone's memory? SIM card storage can't handle multiple numbers per person, but if you store the numbers on the phone itself than you can do exactly what you describe. Greater danger of losing the numbers should your phone die on you, since they wont be stored on the SIM, but if you sync your phone numbers to your computer than you're home free.

Re:It's all about the interface

[rjstanford]

Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers.

Sounds like you're storing your phone numbers on the SIM card, which does have this problem. Store them on the phone instead and you can absolutely store multiple numbers per name. There are lots of annoyances with the RAZR, sure, but that's not one of them.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Palshife]

No, even if you store them on your phone as opposed to the sim card they show up as multiple entries.

Re:It's all about the interface

[rjstanford]

Where they make it work is that if you only want to use the iPod to play music, you never even need to know that it can do all that other stuff. This is a skill that a surprisingly large number of "feature-rich" products lack.

Re:It's all about the interface

[zigziggityzoo]

RAZR: Go to Address Book, Then hit menu. Then go down to Setup, and Change view to "Primary Contacts". Instantly, all your qualms are resolved. (Didn't read all your replies, I hope I'm not the fifth to say this).

Re:It's all about the interface

[cweber]

You're correct, the iPod has these features, but they are minor items and never get in the way of accessing and playing the music, photos and video.
What I meant is that Apple demonstrates that you can resist the urge to overload and clutter the interface, onscreen as well as button count and placement.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Khuffie]

Probably because you've ben sticking with Motorola, who have consistently had one of the worse user interfaces on their phones? Try Sony Ericsson. Or a Samsung. Or heck, a Nokia.

Re:It's all about the interface

[mrbarkeeper]

Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers.

They didn't but you should be able to recognize the manual. It's an option you have to turn on but that is clearly stated in the nice manual.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

The razor has the ability for mutliple numbers one the same name, it just isn't intuitive. What you do is create a second entry with the exact same name as the previous entry and then enter the new number and icon for that entry. Once you have multiple entries you can then set one to primary. The problem is, in the default setup of the phonebook it shows all contacts, but you can change the setup to just show the primary contacts. Once you do that you won't see multiple entries. (Of course there is an issue if you have three Johns in your phone, so last name becomes important.)

After you have it setup, if you go to a name and hit dial, it calls the primary number without asking. But you can hit view on the name and select the next number and dial the secondary (or the third,fourth) number instead.

You are correct through, the RAZR interface for multiple numbers under a single entry is lacking.

Re:It's all about the interface

[PopeRatzo]

laurens,
I wish I had some mod points, I'd reward your excellent post. I really love it when somebody actually offers a solution - without making anyone feel stupid, without jargon - just a simple, straightforward recipe to a fix. Something you almost never find in an online game forum, for example.

I'd been really pissed at my RAZR for not being able to list multiple numbers (and addresses) under one name. You obviously dug a little deeper into the manual than I was willing to go, and you shared the nugget you found there.

Thanks, pal.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

What you describe as wanting for address book is exactly what every Sanyo cell phone my family has owned in the last 5 years (4900, 8100, 8200, 8300, and 3100). Heck, there is even entries for fax number, email, other and probably more. Not having anything but Sanyo phones and various Motorola Nextels for the last 5 years, I guess I assumed every phone had it. Thanks for the heads up though!

I take your "must have" request with a grain of salt though. If that address book feature is really that important to you, why are you now just deciding to look for it or hoping a new Apple phone may have it? Those features are and have been available for years in various model phones. If it means that much to you, I think you would have looked around for it before.

Re:It's all about the interface

[joshsisk]

I don't know of any other MP3 player that is as overloaded with useless features.

This is amusing, because most iPod-critics on slashdot decry how the iPod is lacking in features... yet I guess there are still some who think it has too many.

Anyway, as others have pointed out, those features are very incidental to the iPod and you can even simply not show them on your menu if you like... as I have done.

Re:It's all about the interface

[stunt_penguin]

Hang on a minute, who said that an iPhone *has* to be a music player- the assumption just seems to be out there that apple are going to take an iPod and bolt on 9 keys and an internal arial.

Apple know how to build great devices that just work, and if they're working on releasing a phone, well then you can be damned sure they're not going to compromise on making it a good phone just to squeeze iTunes in.

Also, why would they miss an opportunity to sell you a $300 phone that plays music , when they can sell you a $250 phone and a $250 music player :)

Re:It's all about the interface

[askegg]

Thankyou. If I had mod points they would be yours.

Re:It's all about the interface

[SaDan]

Sounds like you need to look at something like a Treo or a Motorola Q. I love my Treo 700p.

In fact, I'm using it to send this reply while waiting in line at Autozone. :-)

Re:It's all about the interface

[Roadmaster]

"Not only are phone makers not making steps forward, they're moving backwards. "

Motorola is, at least. Keep in mind there are others. A Nokia might fit the bill for you. I also had a V3, coming from an older Nokia 7210, and I couldn't stop complaining about its limitations. I got a new Nokia 6131; it's a fairly basic phone and yet every time I use it I'm amazed by the thought that went into the interface design. It's really intuitive, and there's basically nothing that leaves me thinking "gee, I wish it could do X". And yes, it can have multiple data items for a contact, each with its icon and designation (home, mobile, email etc) and you can even set one of them as the default for the contact. Anyway.. my 2 cents.

Re:It's all about the interface

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

The coolest thing (despite my dislike for other portions of the tech, I do like some of it....) about my RAZR is that when I hit the button on the side and say, "Call Dad Cell Home" (yeah, it's not quite perfect) it asks me whether it's got the right result and then dials the goober. Same with any number of others. It even gets my friend Octavius' name right about half the time. Speaking of impressive.

Yes, I will buy an iPhone, but that's just because I want to be cool. And the Motorola isn't as reliable as I'd like. (go ahead, agree with people that think glassblowing with it in my back pocket is unkind treatment... Plus, the whole "Verizon doesn't want you to add music you pull out of your MP3 library as a ringtone, so we disabled that" thing makes me grumpy)

Re:It's all about the interface

[vingt]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

It's been a year with my RAZR and I'm a supposed gadget freak yet I had no clue. Thanks for the knowledge...

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

> text messages

Why? That implies a big tacky and heavy keyboard. I've never seen anyone ever actually send a text message. They're like the cameras on cellphones. The cameras are too low quality to bother with. Both are profitable for the companies that sell car phone service so they push them even though the customers don't want them.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Mad Marlin]

A redundant thank you. That was the primary thing I didn't care for with my RAZR, and now it is fixed. Motorola should send you a small check.

Re:It's all about the interface

[DeadChobi]

Whatever happened to 411 Directory Assistance? I've used that to get addresses and phone numbers when I've gotten lost. Granted, it's about $.50/call, but it's well worth it when you've lost your mapquest directions. Screw the web interface, just make a call next time.

Re:It's all about the interface

[shotgunsaint]

It would only work if they're bluetooth enabled... it'd make cybersex almost worth it.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

The click wheel was such a nice addition to the iPod, they MUST incorporate that into the phone. I've got it! You could like spin the wheel around to select each number instead of typing them in. It will be so innovative...oh wait...

Re:It's all about the interface

[DDLKermit007]

I know the phone doesn't fit in with the small phone crowd that screams for more features & better interface, but Treo's (outside of the 700w) are hands down the best interface you'll get your hands on. You don't even need to be so worried about losing your phone if you sync enough to keep data on the phone and your PC. New revision out? Get the new one and the data will come off your PC. No stupid assed copying contacts from the SIM card that only allows one phone # per record. It's a hell of allot better option than anyone else's current offerings.

Only way the iPhone will be taking the place of my Treo is if they have it able to sync with iCal and Addressbook at the very least with my Mac. I'd love to see it happen, but I really don't see it working out.

Re:It's all about the interface

[real gumby]

What incredible nerve you have actually posing news for nerds on this site!

I just went and made this tweak..thanks!

Re:It's all about the interface

[pboulang]

Only way the iPhone will be taking the place of my Treo is if they have it able to sync with iCal and Addressbook at the very least with my Mac. I'd love to see it happen, but I really don't see it working out.

The isync with mac is pretty trivial, and already implemented with phones (i.e. my RAZR V3 iSync's over bluetooth across the room) with addresses and calendar. I've changed phones 3 times in the last year and it was absolutely painless with isync.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Achromatic1978]

Nokia N series phones do exactly that. You don't need to train either your voice, or the name of the contact - "it just works". And quite well, too. You can override if need be but for the most part, the built in speech synthesis and recognition works well. You can even go into the Contact and play what it thinks the name should be pronounced like, to allow you to fine tune differentiation of several similar names.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Achromatic1978]

I knew you were American before I even read 'cellphone'.

Clue: SMS text messaging is THE SINGLE BIGGEST thing about cellphones these day, for users and networks.

In 2006 100 million text messages a /day/ in the UK. 25 million a day in Australia, a country of 20 million. Similar in each European country. The worldwide estimate is over 120 BILLION a year.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Rosonowski]

You glassblow, eh? Do you have pictures of samples of your work?

Re:It's all about the interface

[oldosadmin]

Being a guy with a heavy southern accent, phone dial doesn't like me much :(.

I wish they'd make it work better for those of us from the south :)

Re:It's all about the interface

[emurphy42]

I dunno, I recently bought an i580 and it's got a decent interface - not perfect, but not Worst. UI. Ever. by a long shot. (The most important trick is discovering that the menu key does way more than just bring up the main menu - it also brings up sub-menus all over the place - think right-click in Windows.) And it defaults to one line per primary contact (haven't tried a SIM card, I'm not certain mine came with one). And I managed to shove a homebrew MP3 ringtone down its throat, because hey, any idiot can buy a MP3 ringtone. (Again, it's not perfect, but it's plenty good enough.)

Re:It's all about the interface

[NateTech]

Amen brother.

Let's also hope they release a phone that has decent audio and works as a phone first before all the other add-on crap, too.

Samsung phones are decent on the "phone" part, but their interface is mimicing Moto and others, to the detriment of their product. Louder, clearer, cheaper... got many of the right ideas, but not there yet Samsung.

Let's see what Apple can do. Should be interesting.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Divebus]

I wonder if you can replace the battery?

Re:It's all about the interface

[NateTech]

Holy shit. Missed that one in the manual. Thanks for the tip, my phonebook is HUGE I tell ya, HUGE!

Re:It's all about the interface

[Divebus]

Lets say you're in any car sold in North America next year listening to your iPod enabled audio system. The phone rings, pauses the music and lets you talk hands free - blah blah blah while you park your car, pluck the iPod out and keep talking on the phone - then resume the music where you left off... same device. Sign me up.

Re:It's all about the interface

[ksheff]

How do you do the same thing for a Nokia 1600?

Re:It's all about the interface

[thatnerdguy]

when I call 411 from my cell, they even send a text message with the result after i've hung up with them. Now that's useful.

Re:It's all about the interface

[AaronLawrence]

I find that each time I've had to replace my phone, I'm progressively less satisfied with the interface

I just upgraded from a Nokia 6610 to a Nokia 6234. It's much better: faster, easier to read, much more flexible, has many additional features but in a way that doesn't get in the way, a better keypad, and they even restored a small but important feature that was removed from the 6610 (snooze on calendar alarms), all this while keeping very close to the same Nokia interface as before.

Still, I admit I had to look at a lot of phones to find one that had a) a decent keypad and b) wasn't sluggish. Nokia and their "inventive" keypads are quite irritating.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Tyr_7BE]

I've noticed that too on my old Motorola. Annoying as hell. Might I recommend the Blackberry Pearl? I've found it lets me store several (4 or so) numbers per person. It also has the killer Blackberry interface, and is just as thin as a RAZR (I actually did a side by side comparison a few days ago...it's exactly the same size as a RAZR V3).

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? That implies a big tacky and heavy keyboard. I've never seen anyone ever actually send a text message.

Huh? I send and receive text messages more often than I place or receive voice calls. Text messaging is the killer feature for mobile phones. Predictive texting means you don't need a keyboard; the number pad does the job perfectly. Are you some kind of luddite?

Re:It's all about the interface

[kevinadi]

Nokia has the 6280 which is a slider, so it got good big buttons and a big screen. The killer is, they put an old OS in a new hardware, so the interface is lightning quick. Got a 2 MP camera too. You might want to take a look at it.

Re:It's all about the interface

[chris-j6n]

It is your choice. If you want to store the numbers on the GSM chip you get one number for each name. If you want to store the numbers in the phone itself you get multiple numbers for each name. The GSM chip only holds 250 entries.

Re:It's all about the interface

[bn557]

Because they can try to sell you a $350 phone that may or may not match up with the $300 phone, feature for feature, but does have an apple logo on it. Plus, this has the potential to get new people interested in apple, who then might buy a $250 MP3 player as well.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Yer Mum]

Not sure why you'd need to wait for Apple's phone. Symbian Nokias can already do this (mine's a 6680 with the Nokia Music Player installed).

Re:It's all about the interface

[Yer Mum]

Perhaps you mean Motorola's UI sucks. Maybe you should try a Nokia?

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they realize phones will take over the music-player market?

Re:It's all about the interface

[bazorg]

why would they miss an opportunity to sell you a $300 phone that plays music , when they can sell you a $250 phone and a $250 music player :)

True, however there is a problem in not being in the mobile phone market: mobile phones are definitely part of the digital life style that the Mac is supposed to be the hub of. This means that if or when Apple Computer decides to jump in, they cannot be competing with the 2nd grade brands, the ones that just do SMS, MMS and talk. They need to be right up there with the major brands, the ones that are touting "lifestyle" with their phone models. I'm talking Nokia here, which uses a Windows-only PC Suite but mostly works with iSync; Samsung, which does NOT iSync; Motorola, which is big in the US has a problem with usability; SonyEricsson, which is almost as good as Nokia but not as big in market share and has the same issue as Dr. Jekyll...

If you buy a high end phone from these major brands you will spend something between EUR400 and EUR900 and get a camera, mp3, pda, all with proprietary "PC Sync" software that adds yet another piece of junk to Windows Notification panel.

If there is another device that Apple needs to add to their digital hub, it's not a basic phone to sell at EUR39, it's an iSync-able PDA iPod with a phone in it to sell at EUR499 and it had better be shiny and pretty, because the alternatives are updated much more frequently than the iPod...

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

> Are you some kind of luddite?

No. I've been on the Internet since Aug 1986, and I founded what I think is the oldest ISP in the state. I have almost $100k invested in my home stereo/theater system. I'm currently working on refining a noninvasive method of measuring glucose that I invented that might become a big deal for people with diabetes. I'm anything but a Luddite.

I've just never seen someone text message. My kids have cell phones and use the hell out of them (and my poor wallet notices the bills), and I've never seen them do that. I've never seen any of their friends do it. My wife lives on a cell phone, but I've never seen her do that. I have about three dozen twenty-something guys that work for me that I've never seen do it. I've never heard any of them mention using text messaging. They all just talk to people.

I just want a smaller and thinner cell phone. These new ridiculous big and thick cellphones look like you're carrying around a potato in your pocket. I had a smaller phone when I lived in Japan eight years ago than I can currently buy from Verizon. I know because I looked two weeks ago. That was the point of my complaint. These features that make easy money for the cellphone companies are forced upon us despite not being what the public wants.

Re:It's all about the interface

[shmlco]

Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers.

Not to say RTFM, but RTFM. There's an option you can set to have it consolidate phone numbers.

Re:It's all about the interface

[SenseiLeNoir]

On the RAZR, to switch between single name == single number, to single name -> multiple number mode, go to->
Contacts
Phonebook menu
Setup
View, change from "all contacts", to "Primary Contacts"

that allows a single name to have many numbers. But, I warn you, the way this is done is a bit of a kludge. it is still stored as single name-single number, but internally, identical names are grouped together.

It does have some advantages, and some drawbacks to the way SonyEricsson does it. but it largely works, and it is supported by the outlook sync.

Re:It's all about the interface

[SenseiLeNoir]

Actually, internally the RAZR still stores it as a separate name/number entry, but effectively groups them. This leads to the interesting situation of being able to have a separate "address" for each phone number. But, unlike the other phones, you can have multiple home (or mobile, etc) numbers associated with a name. I use Outlook to synch my phonebook, and it pretty much deals with those issues, by ensuring the right numbers, and addresses are synced.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Anonymous Coward]

"Also, why would they miss an opportunity to sell you a $300 phone that plays music , when they can sell you a $250 phone and a $250 music player :)"

The phone would probably cost 500-600$ to start with.

Re:It's all about the interface

[armak]

I've had a RAZR from Cingular for a little over a year and my phone recognizes multiple phone numbers with different icons/categories for individuals, I can use pictures for contacts, I can add email addresses to the contact and I can set different rings for individual contacts blah blah blah. Sounds to me like your interface may have been crippled by your provider or different software. I've seen other RAZRs from Verizon and Altell that have a different interface without some of the options I have with my phone, some of them even have different keypads.

But I do have to agree its not really a great interface.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Brent_Litzer]

Please RTFM. The RAZR has a setting that displays either one OR three entries for a person with three numbers. So, in the act of making things more flexible, it makes some people who do not explore things angry and soured.

Re:It's all about the interface

[soft_guy]

go ahead, agree with people that think glassblowing with it in my back pocket is unkind treatment

I would think that would be OK since your body is shielding the phone from the heat of the furnace. And if it isn't hot enough to hurt you, it shouldn't be hot enough to hurt the phone.

And also, you do glass blowing - I have to tell you that is totally cool!

Re:It's all about the interface

[soft_guy]

If you want to talk useless features - the file sharing on the Zune is pretty worthless from what I have read. (The songs only last 3 days or 3 plays and it isn't even easy to use.) The good thing about the features you are mentioning on the iPod is that you don't have to use them. You can even remove them out of the top levels of the UI - so you don't have to see them at all (in fact, I think by default the contacts aren't visible unless you have some on your iPod). So, these features don't cost you anything in terms of consuming other resources or adding to the price of the unit - unlike the Wifi radio on the Zune that uses batteries and adds to the price of the player.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Palshife]

It's learning voice recognition, right? I was under the impression you could be speaking Japanese and it would still work. Not the case?

Re:It's all about the interface

[matthew_t_west]

Laurens, You are the GREATEST! I have been dealing with this issue for months, and couldn't find the cryptic passage through the interface to that option! Oh yeah, dancing in my cube, oh yeah! Here here for a better interface! MTW

Re:It's all about the interface

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

:)

I like to get some validation. I'm really into it at this point, and hope to keep doing it for a long time.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Divebus]

You're playing tunes from your Nokia, listing tracks on the dashboard and running the player through the Bluetooth interface in your car? That's a trick.

Back to reality, how do I plug the Nokia into my iPod interface and [future] iPhone interface in my BMW? (yes, I have one, plus an Alpine iPod adapter in my Vanagon). All the tracks list and sort on the dashboard display along with playlists I made in iTunes.

The answer is "stop using iPod and iTunes" but I won't do that, and I still can't plug the Nokia into my BMW the way I want anyway. It comes down to hardware lockin, which I'm not in favor of. I'd like to see a common royalty free interface and protocol for all this stuff - but then the manufacturers would need to play on a more level playing field.

Re:It's all about the interface

[jc42]

I was under the impression you could be speaking Japanese and it would still work. Not the case?

Japanese is probably its native language. Either that or Cantonese.

Re:It's all about the interface

[mrchaotica]

Now I've got a Motorola RAZR, and they've somehow lost the ability to recognize that a single person can have multiple numbers. If I have office, home, and cell numbers stored for the same person, I get three entries for them, making the full list of names much longer.

I hate to break it to you since it destroys the entire point of your post, but your RAZR actually does have the ability to recognize multiple numbers (and email addresses, by the way) per person. Here's how you enable it:

Go to the address book, access the menu (middle top button), select "setup" (2nd from last entry in the list), select "view" (third in list), and change it to "Primary Contacts" instead of "All Contacts." Then you'll see each person's name listed only once, with an icon showing which type of number is currently selected. You can cycle through numbers by highlighting the person's name and then pressing left or right.

Hope that helps!

Re:It's all about the interface

[LMariachi]

If you have a Java-capable phone, try Opera Mini. It's not perfect, but it blows most phones' built-in browsers out of the water.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Yer Mum]

You're playing tunes from your Nokia, listing tracks on the dashboard and running the player through the Bluetooth interface in your car? That's a trick.

Not really. The music player has an iPod-style UI and uses headphones or headset (connected by either bluetooth or cable) if available.

Re:It's all about the interface

[Divebus]

Granted, that's a workable system, but the Subject line says "It's all about the interface". By default, that makes a phone with a wire strung to the dashboard less than optimum, on top of fiddling with the phone itself to select music. Fiddling is what I did when I had the iPod on a cassette adapter shoved into the original radio and stuffed the iPod into the ashtray to keep it from hiding in the car when I turned corners. That's not an interface, that's a pain in the ass.

Here's my current scenario in the car(s); the Alpine head unit connects to the AI-Net, a serial cable that loops through audio peripherals and carries audio and control. I've got a CD changer from the original installation, added an XM tuner to the AI-Net later and the iPod adapter after that.

In the BMW, I mounted the iPod itself in the trunk in a clip that plugs into the Alpine adapter - out of sight completely and not in the glove box (cheesy solution). The iPod comes up in the head unit's source menu and behaves like the CD changer only much faster. It allows you to scroll all your folders, artists, albums, playlists etc and shows them on the head unit's multi-line text display plus charges/runs the iPod on car power and sounds terrific. I can also use the steering wheel controls to select all this stuff easily with thumb pressure and without looking.

Extending that, if the iPhone appears, I'll certainly need to rethink where everything goes, possibly clipping the iPhone to the sun visor. It will probably also need an updated AI-Net interface that does all the /mute /answer /speakerphone /resume stuff with steering wheel controls. That should be available within weeks of the iPhone's release.

Now, that's an interface.

My phone

[Kell Bengal]

My phone calls people, it takes calls. It sends SMS and it receives them. That's all - I love my phone. When I went to buy it, the service chick couldn't understand why I didn't want a camera/video/gps/somethingsomething. I'm obviously a geek festooned with gadgets, afterall. The obvious answer is that I already have all those things, and much better ones than can be put in a phone, too. The original ipod was just a music player, but it has become more things - Apple is on a slippery slope - I hope they don't fall to the dark side with creeping featuritis and 'convergence'. I, for one, will always pass on a player/phone that is not just a player or phone.

Re:My phone

[Anonymous Coward]

You have a somethingsomething? I'm jealous. If an answer is obvious then you don't have to bother typing it up. My phone makes ice cream and automatically calls my mom when bullies approach.

Re:My phone

[Anonymous Coward]

My phone calls people, it takes calls. It sends SMS and it receives them. That's all - I love my phone. When I went to buy it, the service chick couldn't understand why I didn't want a camera/video/gps/somethingsomething.

5 years ago, you were probably also railing against SMS.

Re:My phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to disagree
I am by no means a proponent of convergent design whenever it is technically or physically possible, but this is an exception. Many people have a cell phone, most of them have design (UI or otherwise) that is deficient, but we use them anyway. The market for a media player is pretty clear, if the interface works. Bottom line, If I can get rid of one cell-phone sized device (i.e. an ipod) and put that function into my cell phone, bring it on.

Re:My phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't think I'd ever want a mobile phone at all until someone gave me one... unless you've tried it you should probably be more open minded.

Re:My phone

[m0nstr42]

This logic actually backfired for me on my last new phone cycle. Since it was on sale, I could have gotten the camera/whatever/phone for the same price that I got my plain old phone with absolutely no bells or whistles. I thought "hey, it's simpler, maybe they put more effort into making it a solid phone." My wife got the fancier phone that looked cool but was also on sale. Turns out my phone sucks (really slow boot time, occaisionally shuts off, mediocre battery performance) and hers is way better. I still generally agree that the phone/mp3/toaster phone is unnecessary, but at least in this case it didn't work out quite as I expected.

Re:My phone

[shmlco]

"Apple is on a slippery slope."

Or not. Just because they may make an iPhone doesn't mean they have to stop making iPods. You'll still have a choice.

Re:My phone

[leothar]

The original ipod was just a music player, but it has become more things

So get a Shuffle?

Re:My phone

[MrCopilot]

I still generally agree that the phone/mp3/toaster phone is unnecessary.

No way man, I need that waffle on my commute while I'm on conference call we listen to the latest cuts.

Just wish they didn't charge so much for the warming syrup dispensor.

Re:My phone

[jandrese]

That's what I've discovered to. The phone without the camera/mp3/gps/etc... is the "cut all corners" model that typically just sucks all the way around. It's designed to be given away for free, and because of that if you want to buy it normally you don't get the huge discounts associated with the fancy phones and end up paying full price. The good news is that you may not be locked into a service contract (unless they really suckered you) like you would have with the fancy phone.

and now we seee...

[User 956]

And now see the real reason Apple crippled the features to be included in the Motorola ROKR phone (especially the storage). they wanted that market for themselves, but didn't have a product ready yet.

Re:and now we seee...

[lostngone]

You give enough credit to Apple. . Maybe Apple didn't want to waste time/money to develop a product that no one wanted so they just used Motorola as a Guinea Pig.

Re:and now we seee...

[stefanlasiewski]

but didn't have a product ready yet.

That doesn't make sense. Why would they release a crippled product at all, when they could wait a while to perfect the iPhone.

Perhaps the ROKR phone was simply a mistake?

Re:and now we seee...

[Cid Highwind]

And now see the real reason Apple crippled the features to be included in the Motorola ROKR phone (especially the storage).

Because the phone companies that are making $3 or $4 per song didn't want meaningful competition from $0.99 iTunes tracks?

(This is why I think iPhone, if it really exists, is doomed. No mobile carriers will allow it on their network because they don't want to jeopardize their own services that charge 3x more than iTMS.)

Re:and now we seee...

[Dalroth]

GSM baby. I don't have to buy the iPhone from the phone company. I can just take my card out, pop it in the iPhone and I'm ready to go.

The only reason to get a phone from your phone company is they subsidize it so that they can sucker you into those multi-year contracts. Do you save money? Sure, but if Apple REALLY wanted to they could find a way to subsidize their phones as well.

The probably won't. And they won't do it because of people like me. I can honestly say I'd like to have my iPod and phone roled into one. I'm just concerned about battery life. I don't really care what T-Mobile thinks about it.

Bryan

Re:and now we seee...

[DDLKermit007]

Oh carriers will allow it on their networks. They have to. If someone puts a Cingular SIM into an iPhone I'll bet you anything it'll work. Carriers can refuse to sell it to consumers all they want, but it's not like Apple doesn't have their own distribution channels like other phone manufacturers. Simply put, Apple's phone will be a bit more out of the gate than other phones (just like iPods vs other MP3 players), people will buy it anyways, phone carriers will either see the money exchanging hands they are rejecting, and stock holders will either pressure them to relent or corporate shuffling will occur. Mobile-phone companies are greedy little fucks, but they will do anything for a buck.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Better them than Microsoft

[Lev13than]

Apple has placed an order for 12 million iPhones to be built by a Taiwanese contract manufacturer, according to an analyst citing reports from Asia.

Let's just be thankful that they aren't being designed by Microsoft. If they were, you could only talk to other Microsoft phone owners, and every number you called would get blocked after three calls or three days unless you paid extra to get it unlocked...

Re:Better them than Microsoft

[plalonde2]

Please, if Apple was designing this like Microsoft is designing Zune, you'd have to go find a G4 mac to connect your new phone to.

Re:Better them than Microsoft

[vought]

Microsoft is working on a Zune phone that will allow you to record something and send it to someone else with a Zune phone. But they'll only be able to listen to this "message" for three days unless you pay Cingular and Universal Music Group each a dollar.

This new product will be called the "Zone". Microsoft's marketing message will be "Welcome to the Zone".

This "record and recall" feature should be added to the Zune within a year, but look for C|Net News.com to buck the trend and to annoint the "Zone" an "iPhone killer" for the next six months, followed by swooning reviews of the Zone, claiming it's "great for phone beginners".

Also, the Zone is slated to be compatible with Windows XP SR2 and Windows Vista only.

Re:Better them than Microsoft

[ayjay29]

>>Let's just be thankful that they aren't being designed by Microsoft.

I've had one of these (Microsoft OS) for about a year and it's pretty damn good. With a 2 G card in it, i can get enough music on it, the sound is fine, i can watch movies on it (this screen size is great, and a sharp picrute, better video and sound quality than in-flight movies).

It runs about 5 days on a three hour charge. I get my emial, MSN etc. It also works great as a phone, the contacts are synched with the exchange server at work, so is my callender. It's got a slide-out QWERTY keyboard which is fine for emailing on the move, and a touchscreen.

For me it's great to carry one box around, that has phone, PDA, MP3 player, and movie player.

Re:Better them than Microsoft

[TonyMillion]

Let's just be thankful that they aren't being designed by Microsoft. If they were, you could only talk to other Microsoft phone owners, and every number you called would get blocked after three calls or three days unless you paid extra to get it unlocked...

In my experience of microsoft based phones you'll be lucky if you can speak to anyone, let alone people with other MS phones...

Re:I remember

[Tackhead]

> I remember when Apple was a computer company.

I remember when phones were used to talk to people.

(Git off my lawn!)

Re:I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple learned faster than Microsoft that the desktop-centric computing world is dying and be replaced by various computing devices, especially portable and useful ones. The Zune and the xBox are all about trying not to become irrelevant.

Apple is and always has been a company to make useful consumer computing devices, whether that computing decives is a really nifty audio player or a really nifty phone

My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[mekkab]

ANd the best feature of all, a timer. And not just an alarm clock (which it does have) but a "ring 10/30/60/ minutes from now" timer, and it's only 4 keystrokes TOTAL (my old nokia had me set the time and date and it took 12+ keystrokes).

Re:I remember

[the_humeister]

I remember when apple was a fruit

You are getting very sleepy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't they call this an iCell...thereby building subliminal advertising techniques DIRECTLY into the product's name for no extra cost?

Re:It's all about the interface-My RAZR

[Nom du Keyboard]

I also had a StarTac, now have a RAZR, and had a V60i in-between. I have no trouble with my Verizon RAZR associating multiple numbers with a single name entry. Perhaps you just aren't entering them correctly.

My beef with the RAZR is its Voice Recognition. While it works, it doesn't understand my preferred terminology. With the V60i, I recorded my own voice tag for selected numbers. That let me refer to a telephone as Name Cell. RAZR only accepts NAME MOBILE. Also for business numbers I used Name Office. The RAZR only understands Name Work.

Apple is the same way!

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's not forget Apple is the same way. Afaik, you can't play songs purchased from itunes without (and on shaky legal grounds here) inconveniently stripping the DRM. Other examples too. Let's not put 'em on a pedestal.

Re:Apple is the same way!

[falcon5768]

Um you can play songs purchased from iTunes on

1) a CD

2) a computer (up to 5 with no limits to how many times you play them on there)

3) your iPod which you now can have linked to up to 2 librarys on 2 different computers

Yes you need to strip the DRM to play it on a device that is not supported by fairplay, but if your buying from iTunes then you know this already and its not a issue, as everyone knows iTunes exists to sell the iPod, and your personally ripped tracks stay DRM free (unlike Microsofts which get the 3or3 scheme thrown into them too)

Re:Apple is the same way!

[deevnil]

And don't forget how everytime you use your iStuff it makes someone in Tiawan smile.

Re:Apple is the same way!

[soft_guy]

And don't forget how everytime you use your iStuff it makes someone in Tiawan smile.

The Zune, on the other hand, is manufactured in the United States.

Re:Apple is the same way!

[falcon5768]

if by USA you mean Singapore then yes the Zune in manufactured in the USA.

Re:Apple is the same way!

[tbone1]

And don't forget: 4) recorded off of old 78s and never converted to CD, not even by Document Records. My dad has some old jazz 78s from back when he was stationed near Kansas City. They were by little-known local local musicians on obscure local labels. The music is hit-and-miss, but some is really great (if you like jump blues) and now Dad is as happy as a socialist spending other people's money.

Re:Apple is the same way!

[Anonymous Coward]

Um - what if you don't want your music to be locked away? Right now I have a lot of LPs, some of which are over 20 years old. If my record player breaks, I can go out and buy a new one since there are still a number of manufacturers that make them.

Now the same scenario with Apple. What happens in 20 years if Apple is no longer around? If your Mac breaks, you are screwed. There will be no way to play your music. Who knows if the current version of iTunes can run on any computer 20 years from now. So congratulations, you've got vendor lock-in via DRM. You got screwed because you were a stupid Apple fanboi who believed every word Steve Jobs uttered. And don't tell me about fairplay, its illegal. If I do that, I might as well start running OS X on a generic PC.

Re:I remember

[Queer Boy]

Apple has always created Mac-oriented devices to fill the hole in the market until other manufacturers finally realise that Mac users are brand loyal and will continue to buy your line of products and update/upgrade them regularly if you support the platform. As it stands, there are to my knowledge no phone manufacturers that actually have software for Macs (Palm excluded because it's a PDA first).

Apple has manufactured still and web cameras, printers, scanners, modems, NICs, displays, etc.

Re:I remember

[jrobinson5]

Apple may not be a fruit, but its customers are.

(ducks)

12 million phones?

[frinkster]

That's a strange number to order. Is that for a full year? If so, why order them all at once?

Just for a reference, Motorola sells around 10 million RAZRs a quarter. I don't think Apple is crazy enough to believe the iPhone is going to be that popular.

Re:12 million phones?

[KillerCow]

That's a strange number to order. Is that for a full year? If so, why order them all at once?

Just for a reference, Motorola sells around 10 million RAZRs a quarter. I don't think Apple is crazy enough to believe the iPhone is going to be that popular.

Are you kidding? With the i**** brand on it? RAZRs were trendy because they were thin. B.F.D. Being thin doesn't measure up to being an i-something from Apple.

I would be absolutely shocked if it didn't instantly become more trendy and more popular than the RAZR.

Re:12 million phones?

[Kuciwalker]

Are you kidding? With the i**** brand on it?

I wouldn't be so harsh about the brand.

Re:12 million phones?

[zigziggityzoo]

I don't imagine they'll be able to supply all 12 million right away. If you order in large enough quantities, you get a significant discount. Plus, By the time they've produced a good 8 million, Apple will know how well they sell, and will subsequently order accordingly.

Re:12 million phones?

[dubbreak]

Yeah that's quite a few. I hope they kept the receipt.

Re:12 million phones?

[dubbreak]

In case someone doesn't get that my post isn't a troll and is infact funny: apple can't return them regardless of having a reciept (haha get it) and apple is good at doing numbers. They have some savvy business people. If they forcast enough sales to justify production that large, then they are pretty sure.

Re:12 million phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being thin doesn't measure up to being an i-something from Apple.

Runway models, watch out.

Re:12 million phones?

[wenzi]

This site says half a million a month, so that 12 million number might be over a couple of years.

Or maybe just a messed up number.

Re:12 million phones?

[pboulang]

now that you explained it, it is just hilari... no. no it's not.

Re:12 million phones?

[Achromatic1978]

Depends, this is Apple going into a whole new world.

They have design and interface and product smarts, don't get me wrong... but people seem to be far too casual in dismissing the fact that all the other big players in the field (Nokia, Ericsson, Motorola, Samsung, etc) have a) between 10 and 20 years of experience in trying to get things right, and b) invested HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS in product research.

And people think it's gonna be a case of "Hey. iPhone. Apple built it. World's best cellphone." just like that??

Re:12 million phones?

[vistic]

From the phones I've used, you sure wouldn't *guess* that the current cellphone manufacturers have had years and years to perfect their design and interface.

I actually would bet Apple does this better on their first try than any of the current manufacturers have been apple to do after over a decade of design.

Re:12 million phones?

[Divebus]

Depends, this is Apple going into a whole new world.

I call it "unencumbered by years of experience". Cell phone design seriously needs some fresh eyes. I'll vote for Apple to do that better than anyone.

Re:12 million phones?

[pyite]

And people think it's gonna be a case of "Hey. iPhone. Apple built it. World's best cellphone." just like that??

Yes. It's really that simple. They might not consciously say that, but I believe that will be the effective result. I've mentioned this before, but cell phones are horrible. I think mine would be more useful if it randomly rearranged the interface everytime I used it--that way at least every so often I'd get some sort of intuitive interaction with the stupid thing.

Re:12 million phones?

[soft_guy]

Um, historically Apple has done a very bad job of forecasting its numbers. That's why they got stuck with tons of low end performas that no one wanted and at the same time had a huge shortage on high end Power Macs (circa 1996). This caused them to lose almost a billion dollars.

More recently, they were accused of channel stuffing to pump up their numbers.

Forecasting is hard and Apple has not always done it well.

How will the iPhone fare?

[nevesis]

So, I'm rather curious as to Slashdot's opinion on the iPhone.

Most industry/financial analysts have been harshly attacking Apple for the iPhone. (Many of these same analysts were gushing over Motorola's "genius" idea to design a "cool" cell phone, ala razr)

So I ask you, Slashdot analysts, how will the iPhone fare?

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[Tibor the Hun]

I take it upon myself to answer on behalf of the slashdot collective:
It depends if it has more space than Nomad or not.

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[KillerCow]

Most industry/financial analysts have been harshly attacking Apple for the iPhone.

Citations and references please. We can't really comment on it if we don't know what they are saying.

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[jabberwock]

If they design an interface that appeals to the zillions of people who can't live without their IPods, they're going to own the cell phone industry.

And I say this as someone who doesn't own an IPod and who only uses a cell phone as a modem.

I don't claim to understand the market for their little gizmos. But it doesn't take understanding it to see that it's there.

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I'm rather curious as to Slashdot's opinion on the iPhone.

You speak of it ("Slashdot") as if it were some single entity. Oh, wait, I get it... you're looking for group-think, to tell you what your opinion is. Right?

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[WilliamSChips]

The iPod's had more space than Nomad for well over a year or two now.

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[lastninja]

Who cares about the space? Who cares about being mobile? No Cord. More space than a Nomad. Lame

Re:How will the iPhone fare?

[nevesis]

Another Music Phone - yawn - by Prudential Equity Group analyst Jesse Tortora

What Would An iPhone Look Like? - by Forbes

I've read some other ones of similar style, laying out hurdle after hurdle (often imaginary) which Apple will have to overcome.. but I'm too lazy to find others. I'm sure you can, even just by searching Slashdot.

Re:I remember

[Abreu]

or a Music Label...

Apple Product Lifecycle

[The Hobo]

The headline reminded me of the (in?)famous lifecycle

My god, its full of iphones!

[arcite]

Make it stop! Apple is taking over the world! Soon we'll all be cool and hip and 'in'. This is the Brave New World they were talking about when you were in grade school! Run away! Run FAR away! aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Re:I remember

[darjen]

I remember when apple was a record label... heh heh...

some kind of fruit company

[cyfer2000]

"some kind of fruit company"--Forrest Gump

and it would be BROWN.

[arcite]

Thats right. Brown.

Re:and it would be BROWN.

[Aeamarth]

You mean it would run Ubuntu??

Re:I remember

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

(ducks)

Why? Are people throwing fruits at you?

Ouch

[Francisco_G]

Steve must be pissed that this got out. Remember, loose lips sink ships.

Re:Ouch

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it was loose lips, pink slips.

Re:Ouch

[Basehart]

I thought it was pink lips.....oh nevermind.

Re:Ouch

[Serff]

Not in the case of Apple. Apple thrives on the rumor mill. If this is true, a bunch of people (including myself) will possibly wait till macworld now before buying a new phone. So if it's true, I don't think it leaking out will sink this ship, it just gave it a head start out of the dock.

Re:Ouch

[nordicfrost]

I business: Loose lips, get pink slips

Re:Ouch

[Emmo213]

According to the Boondock Saints, people in glass houses shink ships.

Re:Ouch

[awtbfb]

No. This was intentional:

• Take attention away from Zune.
• Make all the tech writers re-focus on Apple "innovating" and think that MS is stale.

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[Nicolay77]

My Sony Ericsson has all that, and a gameboy emulator, HP48 emulator, ebook reader, and the alarm clock has 5 alarms, 4 timers, stopwatch, I can even play Quake on the thing! Well, what was the point of all this?

I still want to see the new iPhone.

Re:I remember

[Basehart]

You were lucky!

When I were a lad I'd have to walk two hundred miles to the nearest village with my legs tied together with barbed wire, find a rotten apple on the floor near Farmer Bob's apple cart, then take it one thousand miles over broken glass and rusty nails to grandma for her dinner.

Lets hope some specs

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope a very compatible J2ME with 3d extensions and a compatible Symbian OS.

If these among with very standard bluetooth (1/2) address syncing, file transfer combined...

I remember when Asian ODM's didnt exist.

[sethstorm]

I remember when electronics were made outside of Asia, well made and well-priced. Heck, even some were made in the US that actually still last. (HP's 28S for example - solid build quality, havent seen any of the trademark shortcuts in quality) These days, it'd probably be news if they made something outside of Taiwan from the ground up in mass amounts.

I'd like to know who doesn't ODM or manufacture in that region of the world (or even Eastern Europe).

Re:I remember when Asian ODM's didnt exist.

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

There are some electronics manufactured in the states. EX: Apcon and Intel both have some kind of manufacturing 'plants' (apcon's not so big, really) in the Portland Metro area. Just because the majority of it is done elsewhere does not mean none of it is done here.

Re:I remember when Asian ODM's didnt exist.

[timster]

well made and well-priced

I also remember when a 386 cost $8,000. Sure, it would last, but you'd throw it away after a few years anyway.

I much prefer a Pentium 4 for $800. Thank god for Asia.

Re:I remember when Asian ODM's didnt exist.

[alienw]

Outside of Asia? Like, in Japan?

What if?

[UnknowingFool]

What if the iPhone isn't also an MP3 player? What if it's just a phone? Here's my thoughts: my phone sucks. The interface is horrible. If Apple designs a better phone, would people buy it? Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves. I'll give you another topic. The holy Roman empire was neither holy nor Roman. Discuss.

Re:What if?

[WilliamSChips]

It was called Holy because it was sanctioned by the Pope and Roman because it thought itself the successor to the Roman empire. New discussion: The Christian right is neither Christian nor right. Discuss.

Re:What if?

[dweebzilla]

I sure as hell would - I'm sick of gadgets, lousy interfaces, pointless features and shitty batteries. I want a cell phone and not much else. Oh, and I'm reasonably sure though I do not want it in white.

Re:What if?

[msslc3]

Voltaire said that first. He also said it wasn't an empire, either. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/v/voltair e140970.html

Re:What if?

[PCM2]

What if the iPhone isn't also an MP3 player? What if it's just a phone? Here's my thoughts: my phone sucks. The interface is horrible.

Sounds like a great idea to me. FWIW, though, I think Apple has some competition in that market. For my money, BlackBerry is doing it right -- not strictly a phone, but a predictable, highly usable UI that has remained consistent throughout multiple generations of the hardware. RIM has many loyal users (my last two phones were BlackBerrys, myself) and not just because you get your e-mail on the go. It's still not as pretty as what Apple could come up with, though.

Re:What if?

[UnknowingFool]

The holy Roman bit was borrowed from a Saturday Night Live sketch: Coffee Talk with Linda Blair.

Re:What if?

[Desperado]

Just a bit of clarification:

Linda Blair is probably best known for her role in "The Exorcist". The SNL Coffee Talk character was Linda Richman and was performed by Mike Myers.

And now back to the thread, already in progress.

Re:What if?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the backend software for which needs it's own server even if you only have a few Blackberries in the company, because if you try and install it on the Exchange server (given it's an email device, it'd make sense right?) it overwrites some of the Exchange .dlls with ones that don't work, crippling your email server.

That wasn't a fun day. I don't like Blackberries.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[RalphBNumbers]

Ok, this is something that I don't really expect the majority of gadget freak slashdotters to ever really grok, but I'll say it anyway:

The iPod's integrated battery is a *good* thing.

The battery in most iPods will never be replaced, and I actually suspect it wouldn't be even if it were a simple 5-second task. Batteries have gotten good enough that their expected service lifetime can come close to matching the expected usage lifetime of devices they power (yes, some will fail early, but that doesn't mean all or even many will, there are always outliers).

Making a battery user-accessible requires adding latches, contacts, extra layers of plastic casing, and other design compromises that just aren't worth it to facilitate a task that *might* be performed once in a device's lifetime. Those compromises cost the device in terms of money, weight, and ruggedness, all of which could be better allocated enhancing something the user does every day, like listening to music on the go.

If you really want to keep your iPod a couple of years down the road, rather than upgrade to the latest greatest gadget like most people, you *can* still replace the battery, or even have a professional do it for you for a reasonable fee. You just won't have spent the last 700+ days carrying around the means to swap out the battery in your pocket, waiting for the one day when it's ready to be changed.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[SLOviper]

Just replace the battery with a new one from a site like http://ifixit.com/.

GSM or CDMA? Which carriers?

[Nick Driver]

Will these phones be GSM or CDMA? And are there any carriers lined up for them? I'd predict they'll likely be GSM since most USA CDMA carriers like to cripple the snot out of their phones and remove all the cool features unless they can nickel and dime their customers out of pay-per-use of those features. Heaven forbid you wish to make your own mp3 ringtones without buying them from the carrier or anything like that, or dare to use BT for anything other than connecting an earpiece.

Re:GSM or CDMA? Which carriers?

[metalcoat]

I assume they will be GSM too especially since im sure they plan on selling them worldwide

Re:GSM or CDMA? Which carriers?

[indigest]

Sounds like you might be interested in BitPim. From the BitPim website:

BitPim is a program that allows you to view and manipulate data on many CDMA phones from LG, Samsung, Sanyo and other manufacturers. This includes the PhoneBook, Calendar, WallPapers, RingTones (functionality varies by phone) and the Filesystem for most Qualcomm CDMA chipset based phones.

Re:GSM or CDMA? Which carriers?

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing's for sure: If it's not tri-mode CDMA, I'm not getting one.

Re:GSM or CDMA? Which carriers?

[Michael Wardle]

Or UMTS, the "3G" standard used in most of Europe and Asia.

Most 2.1 GHz UMTS phones also speak GSM, but UMTS would be a great feature as it allows much faster download speeds, which could be handy if you're downloading 128 kb/s AAC song files! It would allow you to download a three minute song in one minute.

Will this one implode too?

[sethstorm]

Apple has placed an order for 12 million iPhones to be built by a Taiwanese contract manufacturer

Somehow I think that it's not going to be any better in terms of quality if not worse.

Re:Will this one implode too?

[Palshife]

Where do you want 'em manufactured, Detroit?

Re:Will this one implode too?

[Moofie]

um, Taiwanese contract manufacturers probably manufacture just about everything that's within five feet of your person, right this minute.

It's not just the interface...

[DerekTomes]

...but I'm sure Apple will do a good job of it. Phone technology at the moment is a pain in the butt. Most of us have a home phone, a mobile and a work phone not to mention skype/voip. Why can't these all be the same thing? I'd like a phone that figures out the best way to contact someone and calls the correct number. I'd like a phone that:

• when I'm at home rings if someone dials in on my home number
• when I'm at work rings if someone dials in on my work number
• if I have voip and the person I'm after it does too, call using that

I really don't cary about being to take photos. I own a camera that is vastly better than my phone camera. I'm hoping Apple will shake the tree a bit with a new phone concept. I'm unimpressed with most of the phones at the moment because they really only offer new ways for TelCos to take money off me.

Re:It's not just the interface...

[rjstanford]

One of the least-known features of Vonage (and probably a ton of other things as well, but hey, I'll pay $25/mo rather than do the work myself) is that you can set it up to simultaneously ring a bunch of lines. I have a Vonage number, and it rings my office, my mobile, and occasionally my house phone as well. You can do up to five numbers IIRC. Whichever one gets picked up first gets the call transferred. No extra fees, no metering, nothing - even the Caller ID information gets passed along correctly. All this and setup is as easy as adding numbers to a web form. Its almost worth it for the convenience even if you never use the phone attached to your router (or, for that matter, plug in the router in the first place).

Re:It's not just the interface...

[m.koch]

I'm hoping Apple will shake the tree a bit with a new phone concept.

Yeah, like "iPhone Shuffle".

Re:It's not just the interface...

[puto]

Let me see.

1. Cingular ATT, has or had a service called fast forward. When you were home your cell plugged into a device that shifted all calls to the home line.

2. There are mobile voip clients that run on pocket pc cell phones. And in several countries are testing phones that had off between cellular and voip, whatever is most convenient, these will become more prevalent as everything becomes one ip network.

Cisco has apis with their IP phones that let you do all this. My companies it guys have written an amazing dialer, that recognizes time zone, work, tertiary numbers, and is automatic and works fairly well.

though personally, I like keeping work, cell, and home seperate. A bit of work/home convergence on the cell.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[rjstanford]

First off, I agree with your point. But oddly enough, I think you'd find that there were very few people who kept a mobile phone for more than a couple of years...

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[winomonkey]

...a decent point, although I must admit that all of my friends, family, and coworkers look at me like a freak as I tote about my two-year old phone. I cannot cite my source, but somewhere out there I was reading that the typical consumer is expected to keep gadgets such as phones for one year, and that the constant flow of newer, "better" (ha!) phones keeps the purchasing of new products moving along quite nicely. And my hard drive failed on my iPod before my battery had a chance to become too annoying.

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[mekkab]

Oh yeah I forgot, cellphone games FTW!

/ooops, my phone timer just went off. Gotta go pick up the wife.

Yes, but...

[vought]

I've also heard that...

Microsoft is working on a Zune phone that will allow you to record something and send it to someone else with a Zune phone. But they'll only be able to listen to this "message" for three days unless you pay Cingular and Universal Music Group each a dollar.

This new product will be called the "Zone". Microsoft's marketing message will be "Welcome to the Zone".

This "record and recall" feature should be added to the Zune within a year, but look for C|Net News.com to buck the trend and to annoint the "Zone" an "iPhone killer" for the next six months, followed by swooning reviews of the Zone, claiming it's "great for phone beginners".

Also, the Zone is slated to be compatible with Windows XP SR2 and Windows Vista only.

Re:Yes, but...

[McFadden]

Also, the Zone is slated to be compatible with Windows XP SR2 and Windows Vista only.

And you can scrub Vista from that list.

The winner for longest-lived Apple rumor...

[Infonaut]

I'm thinking the iPhone has to take the cake. What other continuously-running (not off and on, like the buyout/merger rumors) Apple rumor has had legs for this long? The iPhone rumor has been in full force for at least two and a half years.

Re:The winner for longest-lived Apple rumor...

[MadEE]

Bah. The iPhone had nothing on the Apply releasing MacOS on Intel rumor. That thing was floating around almost as long as MacOS has been around, well until they actually did it.

Re:The winner for longest-lived Apple rumor...

[WMD_88]

How about the Newton? They've been predicting the return of that since, well, it was discontinued.

Re:The winner for longest-lived Apple rumor...

[bill_mcgonigle]

Bah. The iPhone had nothing on the Apply releasing MacOS on Intel rumor. That thing was floating around almost as long as MacOS has been around, well until they actually did it.

Fueled by the fact that it's existed since c. 1990 with Star Trek, then again in 1997 with NeXTStep.

iPhone does get some points for a rumor that only exists because it's inevitable, without any real product knowledge.

Re:The winner for longest-lived Apple rumor...

[0xC2]

Ha! And the same fools probably believe Sun will someday GPL Java. Not!

Re:The winner for longest-lived Apple rumor...

[Fear the Clam]

Apple PDA that's not a Newton, 1998.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[rjstanford]

You just won't have spent the last 700+ days carrying around the means to swap out the battery in your pocket, waiting for the one day when it's ready to be changed.

You know, that's an incredibly good point; its also one that I've never thought of before. Its totally true, though. The only gadgets I change the batteries on are things like my camera, where I have two batteries because the power can last less time than a day's shooting. Since swapping the battery is commonplace, replacing one wouldn't seem like a big deal.

However, with my laptop I just get really annoyed at the fact that my battery life sucks after a while and then end up buying a new one. Sure, there's a lot of good reasons to upgrade as well, but a new battery would probably have bought me 6-12 months of additional use. But I've never done that, and I'd be even less likely to for an iPod (or a celphone for that matter). Heck, my RAZR is nearing two years old and the battery is not what it used to be, but I'm not rushing out to get a new one - I'd rather buy an iPhone.

Thanks for the insight - and the introspection!

How about SD?

[StikyPad]

I just want a phone with an SD slot, quality playback, and decent folder navigation. The only time I listen to music on a portable player is at the gym, so I just want to be able to pop the card out of my PC and into my phone/MP3 player. I don't want to carry around seperate devices, I don't want to have to remember to charge a player I only use a few days a week, and I don't need a goddamned computer-in-a-phone. For the love of God, SD cards are up to 8GB now. It's the simplest and fastest way to transfer music, but almost nobody's supporting it because they all want you to use their proprietary crap, or pay-to-download, etc. I finally found a decent car stereo with SD support, but as far as I've seen, the phones that do have SD slots are all full-blown SmartPhones (sic) with some craptastic keyboard and/or a huge display that's just begging to get broken/scratched if I were to put it in my pocket.

Maybe I should just start my own company, use someone else's VC to fund it, and if it fails, at least I'll have exactly what I wanted.

Re:How about SD?

[chord.wav]

Motorola has it's L7 wich uses miniSD cards, as far as I know, those use the same format as SD cards but with a different size. There's an adapter that makes fit a miniSD into an SD slot. It has an mp3 player..not a wonder, but works. And if you feel spendy, you can buy Motorola's cordless bluetooth auriculars. But in that case, you would have to remember to charge them!

Re:How about SD?

[mattkime]

Have you seen the ipod shuffle? It has a major advantage over your SD card - it'll play to a standard mini-stereo jack. From there? Earbuds _OR_ bitchin' system.

Its too small to be thought of as a device.

Re:How about SD?

[vmardian]

How is your two step process of transferring songs to your card then popping your card out of your card reader and into your phone/dap any faster than simply transferring your songs directly to your dap via the same interface that you probably use for your card reader?

Vendors don't SD cards because it adds to the complexity, both in terms of design and in terms of usage. And Apple will be the very last vendor to support such a feature.

Re:How about SD?

[StikyPad]

I don't want a line-out, and I don't want to use proprietary software just to make a few MP3s portable. Copy, paste, done. Pop the SD card into my car stereo, go to work, plug it into the phone, go to the gym, back to the car for the drive home, put it in my camera to take some pictures, and then to the computer. Works on Windows, works on Linux, and I can even put data on it if I need/want to.

Re:How about SD?

[StikyPad]

From what I've read, it has a 100 song limit, and the file format (or perhaps filesystem format) is proprietary, meaning you couldn't just swap the card to another device. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:How about SD?

[StikyPad]

Yeah, this is what turned me off:

You can download songs only through the included USB cable. There's no way to transfer iTunes music wirelessly, you can't listen to music through a Bluetooth headset, and you can't use iTunes tracks as ring tones. The strict 100-song storage limit hasn't changed either, and all songs must be saved on the TransFlash card, assuming you haven't filled it up with a lot of other data. And forget the idea of storing more music on the phone's skimpy 5MB of integrated memory--it just isn't possible. So in other words, don't get too excited about circumventing the inadequate 100-song cap. Like the Rokr, the Slvr L7 also connects with only one computer at a time. When we tried connecting to a second computer, the Slvr L7, like the Rokr E1, erased all our previously loaded songs. http://reviews.cnet.com/Motorola_Slvr_L7/4505-6454 _7-31313329.html

So it would seem you couldn't just pop in a (micro) SD card with mp3s on it and go. Even worse, it's only USB 1.1.

Re:How about SD?

[mashade]

pssst... I have a secret to tell you...

I bought a Sony Ericsson w810 phone a few weeks ago. No, it's not SD -- it's the much hated Memory Stick (Duo). Yes, it's a proprietary format, and yes, that sucks, but read on.

This phone is billed as a walkman, has a built in FM-Radio as well -- and you can hook up the usb cable to use the phone as a USB mass storage device. Under linux, you get two devices which show up when you plug it in -- the 28MB onboard phone memory, and the 128MB (stock) memory stick. You can copy your mp3s to it at will, and if you have a laptop or desktop with built in memory stick reader, you can pop the stick into there and transfer mp3s away.

The phone makes no distinction between types of mp3s; DRM not required. You can even use your own MP3s as a ringtone.

I realize SD cards are a lot better in many ways, but this phone fits the bill for you if you're willing to use memory stick instead. It does everything I need, anyway. The only thing that would be a problem for you is your shiny new car head unit, as I doubt that will read memory sticks.

Cheers, hope this was a bit helpful.

Re:How about SD?

[pboulang]

Apple won't use SD because none of their computers comes with a reader. That said, it seems the way to go.

Re:How about SD?

[Wannabe Code Monkey]

If you have Verizon, then check out the Chocolate by LG it can take a microSD card upto 2GB.

Re:How about SD?

[vmardian]

And why should they? Cameras have USB ports.

In comparison with all the unique features that Macs come with (magnetic latch, magnetic power connector, back-lit keyboard, camera, IR sensor) you'd think a card reader would be easy to implement. And it is. It's obviously not a desired feature.

And if you have professional needs then you'd be using one of these.

Removeable storage in your mobile device just doesn't have enough applications.

Re:How about SD?

[Achromatic1978]

a huge display that's just begging to get broken/scratched if I were to put it in my pocket

And you want this from Apple? One word: NANO.

Re:How about SD?

[StikyPad]

Looks like it would be marginally acceptable, but I have a GSM carrier and I'm on a contract. Even if I wasn't, I'd still prefer GSM for the portability when traveling.

The reality is that there should be a plethera of phones on the market that meet the minimal feature set I want, but manufacturers/providers are too busy trying to create artifical markets by limiting their product features and cripping their phones. I'm hopeful that, eventually, the market will realize that people want ease of portability (from one device to another), and someone will cater to the demand.

Re:How about SD?

[Wannabe Code Monkey]

Unfortunately the GSM version of the Chocolate (LG KG800) doesn't have any expansion slot at all. The raw hardware features of the Verizon CDMA version (LG VX8500) seem to be vastly superior (I actually have one). But unfortunately Verizon feels the need to cripple all their phones as much as possible with their software.

Re:How about SD?

[AK Marc]

How is your two step process of transferring songs to your card then popping your card out of your card reader and into your phone/dap any faster than simply transferring your songs directly to your dap via the same interface that you probably use for your card reader?

The transfer speed is better for the 2 GB music swap when I use the external reader. For just swapping a few songs, I do use the phone in the cradle. The benefit of the SD card is that I can take it out of my phone and give it to someone else. I have some files on there. When transfering files onto it, the software wants to make sure it can be run on the phone and such. I don't want to run it on the phone, I want to use some of the 2GB to carry a file from home to work. So it's easier to pop it out and use a reader. Also, you are calling it a 2-step process like the steps are similar in time. Popping a card out of my phone takes less than 1/10 of a second. Push in, let go, it's out. That's effectively no time compared with the time of moving files around. So it isn't "faster" for moving a song or two around. But it is much more convenient for non-phone applications, as well as faster for the large transfers. And I can hand my SD card to anyone with an SD reader and they can read it without special software to access my device or me having to haul around cables.

Vendors don't SD cards because it adds to the complexity, both in terms of design and in terms of usage.

I'm glad my phone maker didn't listen to people like you. I have SD and like it. And no, not mini or micro or whatever, but a regular SD card in my phone. I also have a laptop that reads SD natively, so I'm all set. Why do you not like such convenience?

Re:How about SD?

[pboulang]

And why should they? Cameras have USB ports.

I didn't say they should.

What I wanted to say was that regardless of connectivity (card reader, USB, WI-FI) for the iphone, it should have an SD slot to use so you can choose to buy multiple or bigger storage for it. That would solve the inherent problem of not putting in a large HDD. For one thing, that would make the iphone too large, and for another, when they moved from ipod mini with HDD to ipod nano with flash, support calls dropped some 75%.

If I was not clear in my initial post, I regret it.

Re:How about SD?

[SenseiLeNoir]

I have a Moto V3i (aka RAZR2), and I fitted a 1gb Micro SD and shoved a whole load of MP3's. pretty good, and I can take the MicroSD out, and put it in a SD adapter, and plug it into my iPAQ.

Re:How about SD?

[SenseiLeNoir]

the 100 song limit is for the iTunes version of the phone, and only if you use iTunes to transfer the songs. If you use the phone as a bog standard USB Mass Storage Device (or shove the SD card into a reader) you can store as many MP3s on the card as space permits.

I have the Moto V3i, with a 1Gb MicroSD , and already have 150+ songs stored on it.

Re:How about SD?

[SenseiLeNoir]

It doesn't JUST apply to the "walkman" branded versions. Even the non walkman branded S700i, and p series have that.... they just didnt support the mass storage interface (u needed a card reader, or the software that comes with the phone).

You forgot to mention, they ALSO support AAC (non drm) as well (I think you need to upload them with the .m4a extension). (Also support mp4 video, with a special profile, and SVG animations, and many more formats). ATRAC is surprisingly NOT supported! lol!

Despite the "sony" part in the name, they are still Ericssons inside :) Which explains the flexibility, as well as the lack of ATRAC :P

Indeed the very similar K750i is only different to the W800i version, thanks to lack of dedicated Music key, and crap headphones (which can be replaced to the better ones that come with the W800i). In fact, interestingly the SonyEriccson phones (when paired to decent headphones, like what is provided with the walkman series) are actually very good MP3 players in their own right.

My Moto V3i also supports MP3s in the same way, but is somewhat more flexible (uses MicroSD, and its "data connector" is just a normal USB MiniB, no need for special cables or drivers, and just appears as a USB mass storage device!)

Re:How about SD?

[Anonymous Coward]

i used to have a SLVR L7. you're completely wrong about it being limited to one computer. The MicroSD card acts as a USB key when plugged into a computer. throw the mp3's into the correct folder and then the phone sees them. there's nothing to say that it can only be linked to a single computer.

How good..

[Piroca]

Besides getting scratched easily, your nice white apple cell phone will be dirty with all that oil your face produces. How good is that going to be?

Re:How good..

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats why they started the black MacBooks... they needed something to try out black plastic for the iPhone... hey maybe there will be a cool iPhone Pro!

So what's the catch?

[realmolo]

Everyone knows that Apple always does one stupid thing with every piece of hardware they sell. Something that isn't a deal breaker, but is annoying, and makes no real sense. With the Macs, it's their refusal to ship the things with 2-button mice. Withe the iPod, it's their refusal to include an FM tuner.

My guess is the iPhone will have no "7" button.

Steve hates the number 7.

Re:So what's the catch?

[oberondarksoul]

There's quite a great deal of sense in both those examples you provided. One-button mice are considerably easier for new users; the number of times I've had to explain the difference between left- and right-clicking makes me really very pleased that they do.

As for the lack of an FM tuner: that would add bulk to the iPods, and probably wouldn't be used by many users anyway. The iPod plays prerecorded songs and videos; I'm a huge fan of BBC radio but have never missed it whilst listening to my own tracks. In any case, if you really want an FM tuner in your iPod, Apple will gladly sell you one.

Re:So what's the catch?

[starving4clarity]

AFAIK, all new Macs (minus portables) ship with the Mighty Mouse. It has two button clickability (one shell, pressure sensitive between right and left), a 360 degree scrollbutton, and pressure sensitive sides that can be linked to OS X's expose feature (squeeze your mouse and see all windows open at once on your desktop). Plus there is always CTRL-Click (which I concede was/is a pain in the ass).

Re:So what's the catch?

[Anonymous Coward]

[i]With the Macs, it's their refusal to ship the things with 2-button mice.[/i]

All Mac's currently ship with a two button mouse (except for laptops).

Re:So what's the catch?

[catbutt]

So I've been using computers for 20 years. Why should I like the one button mouse again?

Re:So what's the catch?

[WilliamSChips]

No 7 button. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

Re:So what's the catch?

[R3d M3rcury]

With the Macs, it's their refusal to ship the things with 2-button mice. Withe the iPod, it's their refusal to include an FM tuner.

I'll stay away from the obvious flame-bait-encouraging two-button mouse thing. But the iPod one about the FM tuner? Let's see...I have a choice of listening to my favorite music on the go or listen to what somebody else thinks should be my favorite music.

Gee, I wonder which I would choose...

Frankly, it's not like Apple's selling a ton of FM tuners to go with iPods. I think that should tell you something right there.

My guess is the iPhone will have no "7" button. Steve hates the number 7

That explains it. The other day, Steve was supposed to call me but he never did. When I asked him why he didn't, he said, "I can't call you. My iPhone has no 7." "That's really weird," I said, "How long have you had it?" "I don't know. My iCal has no 5s."

(Yes, I know, I transposed the numbers. Apologies to the other Steven Wright fans...)

Re:So what's the catch?

[oberondarksoul]

Nothing to stop you from attaching a two-button (or more) mouse if you'd like. Apple even sells one, and ships it with iMacs and Mac Pros.

Re:So what's the catch?

[catbutt]

I'm aware. I have a mac, and a (non apple) two button mouse. Still annoys me when I use someone else's mac. Also annoys me that a lot of things don't support it, or that you can't do things like right-drag a file and get the context menu when you release. And I care about things like that less for me (only been a mac user for 2 years) than for others (had my life savings in apple stock for 6 years). I think they'd have a much better market share if they wouldn't be so stubborn about everything having to be different, apparently to make long time mac users feel special and elite. People always cite studies on "new users". How many mac users are new computer users, vs. how many are new *mac* users?

Re:So what's the catch?

[realmolo]

But why DOESN'T Apple include an FM tuner? It would cost next to nothing, it wouldn't increase the size of the iPod, and it wouldn't drain battery life if it wasn't being used.

It's just a simple, easy, CHEAP thing that Apple could add to the iPod, but for some reason doesn't. Why would they not include a feature that that adds almost zero cost, and is damn handy?

The Mighty Mouse is "sort-of" a two-button mouse, I guess. I've used one, I think the pressure-sensitive buttons are a pain in the ass. Also, it doesn't change the fact that MacOS doesn't really do as much as it should with the extra-button. Context-menus aren't very pervasive/functional in the MacOS. Which is, after all, the major reason to have 2-button mice in the first place

Don't get me wrong, I like Apple products well-enough, but they do weird things that seem kind of petty.

Re:So what's the catch?

[Nightspirit]

The one reason I havn't gotten a mac yet is oddly enough, itunes for windows.

You would think I could burn a cd just by right clicking on an album and selecting "burn to cd", but no, right clicking doesn't do anything. I have to create a playlist. I have to do it their way. I figure if even a simple music player frustrates me, the OS would drive me crazy (and you cant really compare windows media player because pretty much everyone knows that is crap, itunes at least is supposed to be good software).

Unfortunately I have to use itunes due to my school.

Re:So what's the catch?

[StikyPad]

As for the lack of an FM tuner: that would add bulk to the iPods, and probably wouldn't be used by many users anyway.

This sort of bulk? The thing fits on the cord of the headphones. I'm fairly certain that it would be even smaller if it had no controls on it. Honestly, if they can fit an FM tuner in this, and this, they can fit one in an iNormous-pod. I'm also fairly certain, although I could be wrong, that it would be used by AT LEAST all the people who have bought the tuner, which is likely a significant amount of people, otherwise they probably wouldn't be selling it.

Re:So what's the catch?

[garyboodhoo]

actually my hope is that the "iPhone" doesn't have buttons and instead uses a wheel for manual rotary dialing :)

Re:So what's the catch?

[pboulang]

Maybe because if you get crappy reception you blame it on apple? If they control everything, they can make sure things Just Work.

Re:So what's the catch?

[MrMickS]

I've been used mouse driven computers for over 20 years. I couldn't understand how anyone could use a mouse that didn't have 3-buttons for a while. That was because the interface I was used was designed so that you needed 3-buttons to work it. The number of buttons doesn't matter if the interface is designed properly.

As a long-time (>10 years) Mac user its perfectly possible to use a Mac with a one-button mouse because that's what the interface is designed for. This thing about the number of buttons is just ignorance and intransigence. Yes, I read that you have a Mac and a non-Apple two button mouse. It sounds like you are still trying to drive it as if its Windows though.

Re:So what's the catch?

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like an opinion to me, and not a very good one - Macs do come with two-button mice (Mighty Mouse) that can also function as one-button mice. You seem to be in the minority when it comes to the iPod; not many people are whining about having FM radio. If there were more people with that complaint, then Apple would probably have added it already.

I kinda think they know what they're doing. You know, the company is worth billions...

Re:So what's the catch?

[NetHead026]

Actually, with the iPod I would consider that annoyance to be an equalizer that for some reason or another results in digital clipping (a.k.a. distortion) when you use it regardless of volume. Nevermind the fact that the EQ presets are preloaded by Apple and that there's no way to change those or add your own.

Re:I remember

[rthille]

Really? What did it taste like?

Not sure I buy this rumor...

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

Apple punishes partners pretty seriously for leaking this much info this early, I call shens... I think there is an iPhone out there in testing, but I'd be shocked if we see it at the same MacWorld as iTV, Leopard and a very likely Mac Pro refresh. Be better to hang on to this as an ace in the hole if the Zune got some market traction.

Re:Not sure I buy this rumor...

[Achromatic1978]

if the Zune got some market traction

Wuh?

"Steve, the Zune is getting market traction against the iPod. Our dominance of the personal music player is slightly under threat!"

"Unveil the iPhone! It's a completely different market and doesn't compete against the Zune, but that'll teach Bill to fuck with us!"

Re:Not sure I buy this rumor...

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

Pay attention, if the iPhone integrates an iPod and can drag 25% of current iPod owners over it shifts the media player market. The cell carriers haven't managed it yet because all of the media phones have been meh at best, but the iPhone is likely to be the right balance of features, looks and the all important cool factor. The nano is by far the most popular iPod so it is clear the majority of people want small and most of those same people own cell phones. If you suddenly re-focus everyones attention on the idea that a stand alone device is dead it throws a wrench in MS initial plans.

Any actual info about iPhones?

[AusIV]

I've been trying to figure out if there's any news on what the iPhone actually does. I've found some mock ups of what fans think they'll be like, but nothing verified by Apple. I assume it will be as functional as an iPod Nano (plays mp3s, wavs, apple lossless, AAC audio, ripped and encrypted, as well as showing photos), while offering the ability to make phone calls. Are there any actual pictures of the iPhone, or do we just know they've gone into manufacturing?

Re:It's all about the interface-My RAZR

[Saikik]

The voice prints are coded to recognize different accents. I'm a native English speaker (Philadelphia, PA). But I had a better time using the UK english pack.

Granted in a perfect world we wouldn't have to mod things to get them to work...

contract manufacturer?

[Alpha232]

I wonder which host of virii will ship with the phone, or will it just make my ear prone to various opportunistic infections.

Re:contract manufacturer?

[mr_matticus]

Maybe it'll carry the antidote for fools who can't pluralize 'virus' properly?

A special kinda stoopid

[maggard]

Whoah - not the way to do business with Apple.

Steve Jobs does ... not ... like ... his surprises to leak in advance.

Apple used to leak like a sieve. Everyone knew their product plans before their own salesfolk did. It got so bad sales took a huge hit every time the next big thing was due as everyone put off their orders. Now after Job's return Apple does a few big new introductions at their own MacWorld or at a few specialty shows, the famous "one more thing ..." products. Those are always hugely, obsessively, secret so Apple gets the maximum PR. Heck, everyone in the industry, caring about Apple or not, tracks these just to see what Apple will do next.

The last time someone leaked in a big way it was ATI. The result was 24 hours before the new Mac introductions, with ATI cards, they had their products stripped from the new Macs, all Apple presentations were rescripted to omit references to ATI, Apple marketing materials were quickly remade sans ATI, etc. Apparently ATI were persona non grata at Apple HQ for several months until his Steveness was sufficiently mollified this would never happen again.

Since then other Apple manufacturers have gotten in lower levels of trouble for simply acknowledging large orders had been made by Apple. These are picked up by the local press, which is of course read by everyone in the industry around the world.

But to confirm the long awaited iPhone, a rumor that has been a staple for years from the dingiest Mac rumor site to the NYT, that takes a special kind of stoopid.

My assumption is that as soon as this story started to break a damage control team from the manufacturer to Cupertino. Now the question is if Jobs will go ahead with the rollout or delay it at the last minute. As this is the same man who once had a factory closed down for all of the robots to be repainted, 9 times, 'til he was happy, who has a history of cancelling large projects, I dunno.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Also, if true, what the iPhone will entail, especially after Disney's recent phone flop.

Re:A special kinda stoopid

[R3d M3rcury]

A guy I work with used to work at a print house where Apple did their banners--you know, the big ones you'll see at WWDCs or in the Apple booth at a tradeshow? Well, the security when they were doing the printing was incredible!

There were only a couple of people on the premises who were actually allowed to do the actual printing--they had signed on the NDAs and such. All the windows in the room were covered so nobody could see in while they were printing and the door had to be locked so non-NDAed people could come in. If the material was being left overnight, they had to hire a security guard to make sure that no one came in during the night.

Re:A special kinda stoopid

[Anonymous Coward]

From TFA:

The Mac maker has placed an order for 12 million iPhones to be built by a Taiwanese contract manufacturer, according to an analyst citing reports from Asia. Hon Hai Precision, whose customers include Apple, Cisco, Dell, Nokia, and Sony, has received the order, according to a Taiwan media report cited by UBS Investment Research.

Notice that this is a guess by UBS Investment Research based on a guess by a Taiwanese media. It could be that they came to the conclusion based on part orders instead of from a leak by Hon Hai. They've been manufacturing computers and iPod for Apple for a long time to know the penalty of leaking unreleased product info. IIRC, there were orders shifted to Quanta because of leaks in the past. IOW, Hon Hai may be innocent of this rumor.

Re:A special kinda stoopid

[Nicolay77]

Well, a leak of a new product makes that you stop buying all current competitors of said product.

A leak of a new MacBook would slow down MacBook sales.

A leak of an iPhone would slow sales of competing MP3 cell phones, but not slow much any Apple product. This leak could potentially slow down sales of Sony Ericsson phones.

In fact, Sony Ericsson would benefit from the feature list of the phone, but we don't know anything yet about it. Except that scrollable border patent.

We don't know if we will buy the iPhone... but we WANT information about it so bad that it creates a strong iPhone brand.

-Hey, there, take a look of this new SE/Nokia MP3 cell-phone!
-Buzz off! I want to know about the iPhone first!

Yuck

[Beefslaya]

Dialing with a click wheel will suck (unless they put numbers on it like old rotary phones).

Need to develop more PDA features into the iPods first...then phone...

Re:Coincidentally

[leon.gandalf]

So a phone network that bans all serious speach? A Gay Network... only Happy talk allowed.
From Wikipedia
"Gay is an adjective meaning carefree or lighthearted. "

I for one...

[Anonymous Coward]

welc...oh, hang on a sec - gotta take this call...

I want pictures dammit!!!

[bergeron76]

Shit - Show me some pictures!

I've been holding off on buying my new phone for a couple of months now (and I'm due for a new one). I'm going to hold out for this beauty, but possibly 6 months from now - damn!

Re:I want pictures dammit!!!

[bill_mcgonigle]

Show me some pictures!

OK, here

The top end model has a mini iSight built-in, just like the laptops do now. iChat is standard if you're in range of a 3G network. You can iChat between iCells too.

My only fear ...

[CrazySailor]

is that 12M won't be enough.

--
Help my Apple stock double. Again. :)

idiot....

[Anonymous Coward]

the standard mouse is called the mighty mouse
it has 4 buttons.

Re:I remember

[faedle]

Palm included.

The Treo's Mac support is pathetic and requires third-party software to be "useful" by any degree..

Re:I remember

[bogjobber]

Patchouli?

Release Date?

[Ben174]

So, if they're ordering them now - does that give us an indication of when they'll be released? How long does it usually take to manufacture phones?

Re:I remember

[Yaztromo]

As it stands, there are to my knowledge no phone manufacturers that actually have software for Macs

I have a native OS X application from Sony Ericsson for developing themes for many of their cell phones (my trusty T610 included). With Bluetooth for data transfer, and Apple'OS X's built-in iSync, SMS through the Address Book, Bluetooth File Transfer software, and GPRS dialler support, what more could one need or use?

Yaz.

Learn from Kell Bengal

[hotsauce]

Therein lies the reason most of Slashdot will never get laid.

All your logic counts for nothing.

Re:Learn from Kell Bengal

[ColdWetDog]

Because they have a cell phone that isn't a multipurpose device? You mean, if I get one of those cell phone / MP3 player / digital camera / GPS / PDA gizmos my sex life will improve?

I'm gonna tell my wife about this, pronto!

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[nolife]

I imagine many here will agree with you until the day comes when they need a new battery for their iPod or they are away from a place that they can charge it and would actually like extended use.

For the consumer... A user replaceable battery is a good thing, you almost convinced me otherwise with your post but I was able to snap myself out of the reality distortion field. I've been using portable devices for decades and have yet to experience this engineering glass roof you mention with removable batteries. Swap the word iPod with cell phone or digital camera in your argument. Yeah, some battery latches break when they are dropped but think of the other 99.xx% that do not break.

Wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

It'll totally suck if the iPhone doesn't have wireless.

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[byolinux]

I believed you up until you said wife.

Re:I remember

[dweebzilla]

Or . . . a certain woman that talked her man into eating an apple.

Didn't a snake broker that deal?



OK everybody outta the pool!

There are other questions

[Anonymous Coward]

The main one is, what OS will Apple use. Since it is fair to guess that Apple is staying away from MS and that it is not likely that they have the resources to build one from scratch,not many options are left, specially if you discount Palm OS which is at the end of the road.

There are bsically two options left, Symbian and Linux. If I had to bet, I would go with the later. However, Linux phones aren't as mature as those based on Symbian or MS. So, wil a nice interface and iTunes be able to combensate for the lack of maturity of Linux in this space? We will have to see. Apple does not have the same engineering resources as MS, so even if they were able to hire a lot of Linux talent I expect this first phone offering to be somewhat similar to Mac OS X 10.1, namely lots of eye candy on a shaky foundation. However, if they are successful, over time they will grow stronger, just like OS X which is now much more mature.

Re:There are other questions

[WMD_88]

I'm thinking they'll just modify the iPod OS.

Re:How about SD? - Nokia

[Virtual_Raider]

I have one mobile that does almost exactly what you want. Its the Nokia 6280 and it has a slide form-factor so it takes up very little space when closed and has a decent keyboard when open. It takes mini-sd and I use it all the time to listen to music with a 1GB card and stereo bluetooth headphones which of course can also be used as a headset to initiate calls with the voice recognition feature. The audio quality is excellent, both the mobile and the headphones support the A2DP standard (although I had to update the 6280's flash from vesion 3.4 to version 5.1) The only down side is the battery, it lasts for a whole day of music listening, but if you make more than one call the battery takes a big hit.

my question

[theStorminMormon]

Is what happened to the wikipedia entry on the iPhone? I check and it's not only deleted, but protected: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone

Was another part of Apple's strategy clamping down on rumors? Does anybody know what that article contained/when it was deleted?

-stormmin

Re:my question

[Mad Marlin]

Apparently it was deleted back when it was just a rumor. Could some Wiki admin undelete it?

Re:my question

[Kesh]

The thing is, it's STILL just a rumor. This article doesn't prove anything yet. Until we get a press release from Apple, it's just a rumor.

Re:my question

[theStorminMormon]

If it's a rumor with some circumstantial evidence, it seems to be that it's worth a wikipedia entry. At the very least they could have an entry about the rumors.

-stormin

Maybe this will quiet them.

[supabeast!]

I for one welcome Apple's new phone; a white plastic phone with white earbuds will garner enough attention to lower the vocal volume of people who still shout into cellular phones as a pathetic attempt to look important.

/. Patents

[Nicolay77]

Sorry, I'm a little busy right now patenting your idea.

Re:I remember

[obeythefist]

Please, this is a much better business model. Now, mobile phones are much more appealing to the most lucrative market. By loading phones with dozens of complicated games and applications, they are objects of desire for rich nerds who love twiddling with little gadgets but would never want to own a regular telephone because they don't have any friends to call.

That's progress!

Re:I remember

[ricosalomar]

Tell the kids o' today that, an they won't believe yer.

My friend told me...

[lwu]

One of my Taiwanese friend who recently left Hon Hai (Foxconn) worked in a manufacturing factory in Guang Zhou. His department was in charge of two things, the Nano and the iPhone. I met him just before Nano hit the streets and among other things he accurately described what was coming out of Steve's sleeve. So I believe his story about iPhone. But then you don't know neither me or my friend, so you'll probably want to take this with a grain of salt.

Models info

[Nicolay77]

Here I found more info about the models

http://www.techsmessage.com/2006/11/15/apple-final ly-calls-the-unlocked-iphone/

What does the iPhone need?

[Swtzrs]

I really worry about the fact that once this phone is released, everyone is going to be pretty upset because it is missing one key feature that they require. Right now, everyone wants an iPhone because their current phones are just too annoying, but once you've put all the features people demand into an iPod, the iPhone will be just as bad.

You need Bluetooth?

Of course, I can't live without my glowing blue earpiece.

You need text messages?

Well, yeah - of course, that's gotten to be a regular need of mine.

You need mobile internet access?

Duh... yes!

You need a camera built-in?

Of course I do - my current phone has one and I've gotten used to it. (And it had better be a good quality camera too!)

You need it to sync with Outlook or Entourage or Address Book?

Why are you even asking that - of course.

You wanna check email?

Might as well by this point.

Okay, then - here's your iPhone - that'll be $950 please...

What are you nutz!? I'm not paying that much for a phone - besides, look at this huge confusing menu system!

Wish people would get over phone subsidies

[Timbotronic]

Interesting to see that TFA is already predicting that the iPhone will bomb because it can't compete with subsidised handsets in the US. I really wish this meme would die.

For one thing, of course there's no such thing as a free phone. You just pay the cost over time through higher call plans. Admittedly, you may get some benefit of scale when the network buys handsets in bulk but there's no reason Apple couldn't do that too. More likely some company will just start offering much cheaper pre-paid SIM plans like everywhere else in the world.

Another thing, the US carrier market is only a minor fraction of the world market. There are 1.5 *billion* handsets in the world. There are around 300M US citizens. Do the math. The European and Asian markets are enormously larger and people there are used to buying unlocked handsets so that they can connect to any network they like. Here in Australia we've had number portability for years.

Lastly, independence from carriers is a *good* thing. We need to stop carriers dictating phone features. I'd like to see a phone that can switch to WiFi when it gets a signal, or peer to peer when I'm close to the person I'm calling. Think the carriers want that? There's no technical reason that phones can't do this today, but the longer the carriers control the phones people buy, the longer it'll take to happen.

Re:Wish people would get over phone subsidies

[John Whitley]

I really wish this meme would die.

Agreed. IIRC, bundling cell phones with service contracts is actually outlawed in Denmark. The carriers don't get to interfere with phone features and performance, and are forced to compete on an even price footing not muddied by the "deal" you're getting for that fancy phone.

This all reminds me of the bad old days of Ma Bell. For the young 'uns (or just plain forgetful...) the phone company used to own not just the phone line, but the phone, the phone jacks, and the wires in the walls of your house. The end of that stupidity brought vast improvements in price, selection of features, quality and design -- such as would never have happened under a lethargic monopoly.

I would love to see a similar revolution in today's US cell phone market. Let phone makers compete amongst themselves for consumers' good will, and the same for the carriers.

Re:Wish people would get over phone subsidies

[Overzeetop]

For anyone sufing this low in the thread, even as recently as 25 years ago it was pretty standard that all long distance calls were 25c/minute - in 1980ish dollars. You can see today what "everybody playing on a level field" has brought in terms of services costs. That's what dereg in the LD market did - one standard, many players. I pay the "outrageous" rate of 4c/minute, but I have no minimums and no service fees, so my LD runs me about $2/mo. I'd prefer to see some real standardization in the cell coverage market - then we might get some better rural coverage, as we wouldn't need three vendors on every metropolitan tower just to cover the handsets used.

Re:Wish people would get over phone subsidies

[dmccarty]

I'd like to see a phone that can switch to WiFi when it gets a signal, or peer to peer when I'm close to the person I'm calling. Think the carriers want that? There's no technical reason that phones can't do this today, ...

No technical reason? I can think of a few. You're talking about a phone that can seamlessly do background roamnig on cellular networks, 802.11 infrastructure, and 802.11 adhoc networks and you think there aren't technical challenges? And I bet that you expect to do it both ways--e.g., start a call on wifi, walk out of your house and continue it on cellular, or vice versa.

I'm certainly no expert on the above issues, but I know enough to know that it's not easy by any means.

• How is this managed?
• How do you decide when it's safe (because of latency and QoS) to jump off one network onto another?
• Which codecs do you choose in which mode?
• If one mode supports one codec and you have to change to another codec when you switch networks, will the DSP be able to store multiple codecs or do you have to download them on the fly?
• If so, how long will that take?
• How about the increased power requirements that will lessen your battery life?
• What about the increased chip count on the phones to support all of the above?

And perhaps most importantly, which manufacturers will want to develop and sell a bigger, more expensive phone that gets bad battery life and costs more when they don't have the safety net of a big wireless carrier dangling a purchase order for x million units?

So in short, yeah, I guess there ARE some technical reasons why phones don't do this today.

Re:Wish people would get over phone subsidies

[Timbotronic]

I didn't say it was easy. I said it was possible.

In fact, it's being done now. All your points are valid challenges, but the QoS and handover stuff has been worked out. Power is certainly an issue for Wi-Fi, but given that you're most likely to use that at home or at work where you can recharge it's a solvable issue. Alternatively, you could start connecting GSM Pico-cells to local networks as Boeing and Airbus are doing for in flight calling.

The enduring problem is, the carriers are still looking to route the entire call back through their network (and hence charge you for it). That's just not necessary and I look forward to the day they lose their grip.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[StikyPad]

Yeah! And all those people who would want to, perhaps, carry a spare, or charge one while using the other are just plain crazy. Crazy, I tell you!

Hell, I have 3 (proprietary) batteries for my camera, and I barely use it. But when I do, I don't want to have to worry about the batteries going dead. Sure, I could probably find an outlet somewhere to recharge it, but it's about convenience, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I sort of thought convenience was the whole point of a portable product.

Replace solder with contacts, and add a latch. It's really not that difficult -- every wireless remote control in the history of mankind has had one, including the one that fits in the ExpressCard slot of my laptop. On the other hand, the battery eventually goes out, and people are then forced to make a decision -- pay to replace it, or buy a shiny new iPod.

The honest truth is -- and it's not wrong, it's just the way it is -- Apple wants to sell more products. If they made the battery replacable, third party batteries would saturate the market, and Apple's marketshare for them would be next to nothing -- but they'd still have to sell the batteries to support the product.

It's a business decision, plain and simple.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[kklein]

Thank god for some sanity. I'd also like to point out that we're all geeks here, and if you can't figure out how to open your iPod yourself and replace the battery (or the hard drive--my 4th gen. is now 40GB after I destroyed the old hard drive with a very nasty drop with many bounces afterward), you need to turn in your geek badge. All it takes to open an iPod is a thin screwdriver and some guitar picks.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[bill_mcgonigle]

Batteries have gotten good enough that their expected service lifetime can come close to matching the expected usage lifetime of devices they power (yes, some will fail early, but that doesn't mean all or even many will, there are always outliers).

I'm not sure about that. I have an iPod, no-G-nuthin', and I've replaced the battery in it. It cost $30 and was really easy. The battery came with two little plastic levers that pop the case off and I went from a 2 hour iPod to a 14 hour iPod. Best $30 I ever spent.

Changing the oil in a car is far more complex. My mother wouldn't attempt either.

...before realizing it hasn't made them yet

[jdbartlett]

Reporter: "There's a lot of excitement about the iPhone..."

Jobs: "Wait. The what phone?"

Reporter: "Er... the iPhone; the brand new device that's meant to do to the cellphone what iPod did to the walkman. Flash based MP3 player, revolutionary new interface... I thought you may have heard of it?"

Jobs: "Hmm, sounds good. Put be down for 12 million of those babies."

Reporter: "Er, I don't work for you, Mr. Jobs."

Jobs: "You're fired."

Prudential was sure wrong

[nevesis]

From Prudential Equity Group analyst Jesse Tortora's report in Oct '06: "Our checks indicate that Apple will produce these phones in limited quantities initially due to concerns over market acceptance and battery life."

Today: Apple orders 12 million iPhones

Seeing as how the Razr only sold 5 million units in the quarter it was released, I call for Tortora to be fired.

Another Apple iPhone story? Is it real?

[notnAP]

I'll believe it when I see it. I mean, if I had a dolla...
Hold on... I have to take this call.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[Benzido]

What kind of nerd are you, if you are holding onto any portable gadget for more than two years?

Apple iPhone + Google free phones!!

[msisamonopoly]

Google's Eric Schmidt (also on the Board of Apple) made a recent comment about the possibility of Google providing free phones supported by targeted advertising.

I wonder if many such phones will have an Apple logo on them!!

A reminder about The Apple Product Cycle.

[Lethyos]

It just never seems to get old.

Apple Cellular Service

[0xC2]

iCarrier? iCall? iMobile? iCell? iDontKnow, but a great piece of hardware deserves great software. Apple proved that with iPod/iTunes. So I really don't believe the iPhone will be matched with Cingular or Verizon or whomever. Apple needs to be the carrier.

SMSes aren't big in the USA

[Kadin2048]

I don't know whether it's a difference in our billing structure here or what, but SMSing just isn't nearly as big a deal here as it seems to be in Europe. I use my cellphone heavily, and I rarely use text messages. Maybe a few times a week, tops. In the time it takes to compose an SMS, I can generally just call someone and leave a message, or just let it ring and let them call me back when they see the missed call. On most phone plans, that's cheaper, too. (I have more voice minutes than I could ever use, but text messages set me back about $0.10 a piece. This is on a pretty basic TMobile plan.) Plus, I can do voice calls from a BT headset with VAD while in the car; I can barely walk in a straight line when I'm trying to type text messages.

They just don't seem like they're worth the trouble and expense. If I was going to type on my cellphone, I'd just go into the Gmail mobile app and send a real email.

I'm probably on the low end of text-message use, but I really don't think they're used here in the States very much, comparatively, and I think as email gets further integrated into phones, that's just going to take over.

Re:SMSes aren't big in the USA

[famebait]

I think it's because Americans seem to be pretty happy with voice messages and have been used to them for a long time. Over here they never really caught on and are generally considered a nuisance.

Re:SMSes aren't big in the USA

[teh kurisu]

I've got to admit that I find it strange that your T-Mobile plan doesn't include free texts as well as free minutes; most do in the UK, and you can usually add an extra text allowance by paying a couple of pounds a month extra. In fact, there are some contracts that are geared to giving you more free texts than free minutes.

Another consideration, with regard to voice messages, is that some UK carriers will charge you either a fixed charge or a per-minute charge to retrieve voice messages, which can make them more expensive than texts - especially if you like to keep them for future reference. Then there's the noise issue - with the ringer turned off, I could send text messages from the library without annoying anybody, and I could read and understand them in a loud pub, where I wouldn't be able to conduct a phone call.

Re:SMSes aren't big in the USA

[jandrese]

It really is a pricing thing that keeps SMS popular in most of the world but largely ignored in the States. Typically, it's difficult to get a phone plan in the US that doesn't have some crazy number of daytime minutes and free nights/weekends for voice, however free unlimited SMS is unheard of. Typically it's $0.05 or $0.10 per message (which adds up real quick with SMS) or $5 to $10 extra a month. If you already have more minutes then you know what to do with, then it doesn't make sense to be charged extra for SMS.

Most providers have a slightly cheaper plan that doesn't have as many regular minutes, but with those plans it can be difficult to get unmetered GPRS or other such services. The final nail in the coffin is if you have unlimited GPRS, then there isn't much point in sending SMS, you can just use an email->SMS gateway instead (I do this on my 7100t for the couple of friends I have who don't get charged for their SMS messages).

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[Anonymous Coward]

And by 'phone timer went off to pick up the wife' he of course means:

Meet the shady pawn-shop owner to pick up his doll.

Maybe this will break the cycle.

[Kadin2048]

Bingo. Actually, an Apple iPhone could be the thing that might wake a few people up, and get them to break out of the subsidized-phone indentured servitude.

I left Verizon for TMobile and haven't ever looked back. My girlfriend actually has an even better deal -- she has a legacy AT&T Wireless billing plan that predates their buyout by Cingular (it's ridiculously cheap, for 4 lines I think it's $80). If she changed the plan, or got a new phone through them, or generally did anything except pay her bill every month and shut the heck up, they'd bump her to a Cingular plan that would cost almost double. So what does she do? She just buys European GSM phones from eBay and puts the SIM cards in. Works fine, and Cingular's none the wiser. (Well, I suppose they could tell from the IMEI changing, but they seem not to care.)

If you're TMobile or Cingular (or leftover AT&T/Cingular), I don't think there's anything stopping you from buying an iPhone and popping in your SIM. Welcome to what the rest of the world has been enjoying for some time now: phones that aren't locked to a particular carrier or phone line.

Re:Maybe this will break the cycle.

[soft_guy]

Really? I had an AT&T plan until recently. The problem I had with it was that it was way too expensive. Switching to a Cingular plan saved me a lot of money. The thing that was holding me back was that I had purchased a Treo 600 just before AT&T was sold and CIngular told me I couldn't use it on a Cingular plan.

Re:It's all about the interface-My RAZR

[Kangburra]

The voice prints are coded to recognize different accents. I'm a native English speaker (Philadelphia, PA). But I had a better time using the UK english pack.

Granted in a perfect world we wouldn't have to mod things to get them to work...

Erm, native English is the UK?

Re:It's all about the interface - Ditto!

[Anonymous Coward]

The people that design the interfaces for phones must be total f&cking losers. My old Kyocera 6035? had a very good interface. Too bad the LCD screen went POOF about a year and a day after buying it. That phone had the best speaker phone ever. It had noise cancellation, great display, intuitive interface, plenty of phonebook flexibility. And it had a nice display.

Since then, everyone has drifted off into cuckoo land. They all have to try to make something cool-looking, without worrying about functionality. Thankfully Palm came along and created something functional first, and cool came as an afterthought. The older phones had much better reception. Kyocera phones from '99 to 2002 were fantastic. The Samsung and Motorola phones from Cingular and Verizon are crappy by comparison.

I've finally found something acceptable... the Treo 700. I can watch CSI, listen to MP3's, make my own ringtones, text, email, web browse, powerpoint, excel, word. The only things I can't do are Flash and PDF, and that's because I can't stand either one and haven't looked for a reader for either one. I can listen to any F&CKING radio station streaming on the internet! It makes the RAZR and the rest of the phones today look like crap that you'd win at Chuck E. Cheese's for 5000 skee ball tickets!

Re:It's all about the interface-My RAZR

[stephentyrone]

Depends on what you mean by "native". The english spoken in the US (especially in the mid-atlantic, more so in appalachia) is actually *more* similar to, say, elizabethan english than the english spoken in the UK.

Glassblowing stuff

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

It's all crap so far. However, if you're really that interested, This is the flickr account I made in ten minutes of browsing my photos folder on my HD.

Re:Glassblowing stuff

[Rosonowski]

Not bad, but not quite what I'm looking for, either. Wish I could take it up as a hobby, how expensive is it as a semi-casual hobby?

Re:Glassblowing stuff

[MrAnnoyanceToYou]

It's the most difficult and expensive hobby I have ever had. However, I find it the most rewarding, as well.

I have to openly state that as a person who wishes to get to the point where I can break even, I'm not a good guy to ask about it. The market's getting flooded, operation costs are high and getting higher, and the time it will take you to acquire experience will be prohibitively rough on your bank account. But then, if you try it and can take the high temperatures, I'm sure you'd enjoy it.

Re:I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah? Well in my day, we didn't play World of Warcraft. :-P

Re:It's all about the interface-My RAZR

[Kangburra]

English is by definition native to England, which last time I looked was part of the UK.

UI issues with current phones

[nowhere.elysium]

To be honest, I've not found any real UI issues with my current phone: it's a BenQ-Siemens EL71 - they're a bit esoteric, but very, very solid, and nicely laid out. They're also rather cheap, too. I think the majority of the problem stems from companies such as all the big players (Barring, possibly, Nokia) deciding what would be a good UI, instead of actually trying to find out how people use a phone/addressbook/sms/video functions and so on and so forth. My purchasing choice was based purely on price versus features: I wanted something that had bluetooth, and expandable memory: this has both (Conveniently uses Micro SD, too). The camera I wasn't so fussed about, and the software's not too hot, but I use Evolution Sync anyway for the address book, and my G5 picks up the bluetooth just fine for file transfers: if I'm looking to set out a new playlist (it plays mp3s, and surprisingly, aacs, too) then i just take out the memory card, and smack it in the front of my music machine and i transfer away. My point is that by going to an alternate manufacturer, many of these problems can be solved: Siemens are still a known name within the world of the mobile phone, but BenQ are not: it is their design, with Siemens' telephony experience forming the backbone of it.
Nokia, however, have always made solid, easy-to-use phones, and they've addressed (sic) the address book issues very well, too.

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[jamar0303]

Which one? Or is it one of the P-series phones?

So where's the other number?

[chiark]

9 keys? I'm sure at a minimum they'd put 10 on there, as people will probably be used to dialling all numbers from 0 to 9.
They might even do more. Or they might make it a touchscreen so it's only a software update when someone notices that they forgot 0 off the dialling pad.

[OT] Native English

[evilandi]

Yes.

The native language of a person from Philadelphia would be Sioux or Chippewa, if my history memory serves (we do study American history here in UK schools, but essentially it just about fills one Wednesday afternoon- so long as you include Mexico).

English is native only to England, and like most European languages it has a patchy history. It is a mix of older tribal languages and French. The most important contributions came from the Angles (a German tribe who invaded Britain around or before 500BC), the Saxons (another German tribe who booted the Romans out of Britain around 400AD) and the Normans (a French kingdom, which invaded in 1066AD). Prior to 1066, the phrase "Old English" or "Anglo-Saxon" is sometimes used to refer to the hybrid language used throughout much of what is current-day England. There is also a notable influence from Norse and Danish, via the Vikings.

Other native languages to England include Welsh (spoken in my home county of Shropshire, now part of England but originally mostly in Wales- especially spoken in the town of Oswestry and used in tourist signposts and literature there) and Cornish (but again, Cornwall wasn't originally in England). I believe there was also a Cumbrian native language (again, not originally part of England) which sadly has nothing like the modern-day following of Welsh or Cornish (for instance, some radio stations have programmes in Cornish).

Re:I remember

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not an Apple fanboi per sé... But Apple seems to take some kind of pride in what they sell... And it shows.

The best stuff is made by people who care about what they're producing.
Microsoft shareholder value is fantastic because that's what Microsoft cares about.

If Apple cares about the iPhone as much as it does Macs and iPods, I'm buying one.

No camera!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please release a version with no camera for those of us who work in DoD sensitive areas... Was hard enough getting a Treo 650 with no camera.

The real reason Apple HAVE to make an iPhone...

[clarkec321]

Whilst the iPod has been a great success for Apple and digital music in general, the success of the iPod pales into insignificance when compared to the number of mobile phones in the world. Most peoples iPods are full of their CD collection rather than music downloaded from iTunes as has been mentioned thousands of times, by mobile music downloads are increasing all the time, the advantages are you don't need a computer, and most of the world doesn't own one anyway Over the air music downloads to mobile devices will overtake online downloads, and Apple realise iTunes has to evolve to OTA downloads if it is to remain at the top of the market. If Apple don't start making mobile devices, they will sink. iPods will become irrelevent, as phones music capabilites overtake those of iPod Walkman branded phones are the most sought after in the UK with the under 25's (which has a more advanced and mature mobile market than the US) I'm a manager for Europes largest mobile retailer The Carphone Warehouse, so I should know. Apple are already playing catch-up in the rest of the world, and it's only the fact that the US public is still by low capabilty phones like the Razr, that means they haven't got much catching up to do in the US. I can't wait for the iPhone, but as this is a new venture for Apple they must build an upgrade path into it, for when they want to make an iPhone2 etc... Who would want to download loads of tracks OTA only to find if you want the latest model, you may loose them all unless you can back them up, and with mobiles being less reliable than iPods they need to make sure people don't loose everything if it goes wrong So go for it Apple

Re:It's all about the interface-My RAZR

[asc99c]

I'm from England but I'd say his native language could be English same as myself. 'Native' in this sense meaning his first language, as opposed to a French person speaking English as a second language.

and the packaging would be like this

[Incadenza]

Old but still funny: Microsoft re-designs the iPod packaging.

Re:How about SD?http://hardware.slashdot.org/comme

[Pestilenc]

My trusty old Nokia 6600 does that and its gotta be three or four years old by now. Granted its uses an MMC card but I can copy songs directly on to it via a card reader. I can also make a playlist in winamp, for example, and save it to the card. I use FExplorer (a Windows Explorer like program for the phone and its free) to navigate through the songs. Selecting a song or a playlist automatically opens the built-in mp3 player software (which is surprisingly pretty good, although Ogg Player is nice as well) and it starts playing. I think any phone based on the Symbian OS would let you do that, its a very open system and seems to get around a lot of the carrier restrictions that get put on phones. In fact, the 6600 made me love having a cell phone again (although that's mostly because its a quad band gsm and 850mhz has fantastic reception).

The only issue I have with it is the stupid pop port connector. I just want a headphone jack.

I've met with the issues you were talking on my friend's Samsung. I was able to copy songs via a card reader, but the would play only after converting them to some other mp3 format (I'm still not clear on what needed to be changed, I simply found instructions on a Samsung enthusiast site and followed them... it wasn't my phone). Selecting songs from the mp3 player wsa a total disaster; they were listed one after the other with no real regard for folders.

Re:I remember

[soft_guy]

Do they need special software for the Mac? I've had several blue tooth phones that worked really well with iSync (Sony T68i, Moto RAZR).

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[pimpimpim]

I got a prepaid LG for about 40 euro, it has the multiple-number thingy, schedule, 3 alarms, and best of all: no camera.

it's a bit like this one: http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/b2050(uk) .jhtml

Shows that some companies still make phones that can be used... to call people and nothing else.

Re:I hope they're not too much like the iPod..

[soft_guy]

The iPod battery is replaceable. It is not soldered on. When mine wore out, I replaced it in five minutes.

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[Nicolay77]

You caught me.

It's a three years old P900. I want to trade it for a P910

OT: GSM and AT&T

[Kadin2048]

Well, I suppose it would be worth checking again. The last time we compared what Cingular had versus her legacy AT&T promotional plan (which she got through her school, which apparently had a very cozy relationship with AT&T), Cingular was significantly more expensive for the same level of service. However, looking at Cingular's website, it does seem as though their prices have come down from what I remember them being.

They were definitely very eager to get her off of the legacy plan though; they basically refused to make any changes to the account at all (even change the billing address), without bumping her to a Cingular plan and re-contracting. So she told them where to stick it and just stayed with the old plan.

Since deciding not to mess with it, her whole family has gone through an handset-upgrade cycle, by just buying unlocked GSM phones. The prices weren't all that bad (a RAZR these days is only about $175, or $100ish used on eBay), and some of the unlocked phones are more capable than the branded ones you'd get from a provider normally. Case in point -- her unlocked European RAZR can do 30s video clips, while my TMobile branded one can't take more than 2-3 seconds. Why? No idea; I assume it's firmware. But if I had just gotten mine, I'd feel pretty shafted.

At any rate, I think anyone who's on a GSM plan should seriously consider just getting their own phones. It just gives you a lot more flexibility. If you don't like the plan or company you're with, you can leave, take your number, and switch to somebody else. (Granted, in the U.S. there are really only two options.) After being with Verizon (whose customer-service motto ought to be "say my name, bitch!") the ability to take my equipment and my number and switch companies if I choose seems really refreshing.

Re:OT: GSM and AT&T

[soft_guy]

I wouldn't assume that I got a good deal from Cingular (or that they have lowered their prices), I would just assume I probably had a bad deal with AT&T.

ITS NOT EVEN OUT!

[Anonymous Coward]

And all the Apple buttboys are talking about how great its going to be. I'm sick of these people, they've driven me away from ever buying an Apple product.

Hmmmm

[MrCopilot]

Ring, Ring, Ring, Ring ... Apple Phone.

...

Nah. Doesn't have the same a peel.

Here's how you configure your RAZR

[Anonymous Coward]

Select your phone book, then click the centre button, choose 'setup'. Then select view, click change and select 'Primary contacts'.

This will now only show one entry per 'person'. You can then go through each contact and configure each 'primary' number which is teh one that shows on the list by default. if you want to use another number in the list, select the primary contact number then use the up/down and pick your number for that person.

I personally find that method tedious. BUt there you go.

Re:My LG has that multi-number icon deal

[jamar0303]

Damn, I wouldn't have given mine away if I knew it could do all that! Too late for regrets, though.