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This is factually accurate, supported by numerous studies and basic crime statistics where there is a body plus a person found guilty for the death.

[citation needed]

In other jurisdictions like the United States; it was never even a question, really.... Your employer can require you to use their biometric systems for access control or time and attendance;

That's false: such matters are ALWAYS open to question in the USA, because James Madison gave the USA an open-ended Bill of Rights,

Nope. The first statement above is true. And your language/arguments are so bogus for this context they begin to sound like the sort of rhetoric advanced by those so-called "Sovereign Citizens". It doesn't matter how Open-Ended the bill of rights actually is, because
the Bill of Rights is a limitation on government only. Even if you want to claim an additional right to privacy: this has no affect on employers. In fact, an employer can refuse to hire you if you won't sign an agreement waiving or forfeiting your 2nd Amendment Rights, your 1st Amendment Rights, Your right to a jury trial (Compulsory Arbitration), etc. An employer can require you sign an agreement for them to search your home before hiring you if they want: and refuse you a job if they find any firearms, or find that you held a firearm's license in the past, or found out that your oldest brother's friend's stepnephew owned a gun or wrote a Newspaper article in favor of smoking or gun ownership that your employer disagreed with, for example.

giving the people the ability to assert ANY rights they desire under the 9th Amendment (unspecified rights retained by the people) and 10th Amendment (unspecified rights to the people)

.

Your employer is also a person.... that can do the EXACT same thing: assert ANY rights they desire,
including their right of free will to choose who they want to hire based on arbitrary seemingly-irrational preference and refuse you the work.

By the way, despite there's a 9th / 10th amendment --- that doesn't allow people to assert ANY right they desire against the government; the supreme court and federal courts have particular interpretations of the constitution, and a concept that also comes up often is that the People then ceded any residual rights to the current legislature through the process of Voting, So unless you are a disenfranchised voter arguing for extra rights that the congress has not respected is not going far..

Also: you used the term "white nationalist". No such people exist, outside your excited feverish mind.

Are you sure?

I'm guessing that you are not from the US or Canada. The KKK is the most well-known white supremacist organization in the US and dates back to the immediate post civil war era. They are the original homegrown terrorists of the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/ku-klux-klan

The KKK didn't just threaten people, they tortured and murdered them. Their "cross burnings" were a method of intimidation but they didn't stop at threats. These days they try to present a civilized public face for better "optics".

In the 1920s there was significant Klan membership among elected officials both in Congress and various offices like state governors.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/books/review/linda-gordon-the-second-coming-of-the-kkk.html

It can happen again.

In the 1940's the antifa in the US had a different name: the US military. You are placing yourself firmly on the side of nazi's.

https://www.splcenter.org/figh...

but that makes things a little hard for the American Right wing vis-a-vis gay rights, so I don't see that happening. Nonetheless if the right wanted this to stop for real that would be the way to do it.

That said, I don't think they do. The right wing own all 3 branches of government and nearly all of the media (they dominate talk radio, Fox News' ratings are much higher than MSNBC and, well, as a lefty I can safely say that MSNBC is right wing on economics, just go watch some of their coverage of Orcassio-Cortez and the Medicare for all Issue).

What I'm saying is this is great for them. It lets them paint themselves not as the ruling class in charge of everything that matters but as an oppressed minority because their extremist aren't welcome. That narrative of oppression grants them sympathy that folks like this normally wouldn't have it.

No surprise that those statistics come from a hard-right libertarian foundation

Hmm, downvoted without rebuttal, maybe it was my tone or maybe it's because the Southern Poverty Law Center is moderating /. just like it's doing at Facebook. You know, the people that call everything under the sun "racist", even if you just referred to "exceedingly violent" gang members as animals during a roundtable and in response to comments about MS-13 (full transcript). At least the AP retracted their statement, despite their laughable excuse.

Sorry, but in sum it appears to be true, ... at least under the immigration policies of the recent past.

Nope. You're just reciting the same flawed arguments from the same flawed sources, that's either ignorance, or apparently you didn't think anybody noticed that you were building on a broken base. But they did back when it was first published.

Sorry, but the Moonies are not helping you here, they get lost in their own agenda and tend to produce lies.

Besides, recent past?

I'm sorry, but your criteria is again:

Most immigrants end up costing the government more a lot more in services than they ever pay in taxes.

Sorry, but you have to consider all of the living immigrants, and I believe it's somewhere around 20 million people in total that you'd have to cover, and that's not even raising the question of what a "Lot more" happens to be.

make sure this insanity is not taken out of context (you never know)

Kinda weird how the only actual quoted parts from the book are about something she did when she was seven years old.

Or, given the source, maybe its not so weird and actually par for the course.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/david-horowitz
Hell, even smug douche Ben Shapiro couldn't stand to be associated with them any more and he was a founder.

You assume that the KKK encompasses the entire extreme right. Sadly, they are only one organization out of literally hundreds in America. As you point out, KKK membership is at a nadir. But that's not because its ideas are losing support. It's because its members have moved on to form other organizations without the baggage (in the public eye) of the KKK.

If they really are capitalists, they can make money like the rest of us by earning it.

Oh geesh, I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

If I drop the sarcasm, the people who are claiming that "their" mountain is sacred are just a bunch of racists and grifters, and not only do not want a facility there, they do not want Americans or Asians there, and want to revert to the pre-Hook Hawaii of several hundred years ago. But if they can milk some money out of the "ferners", they'll be happy to do so. https://www.splcenter.org/figh...

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/b...

They even have a "Kill Haole Day" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Here's a great example - http://dailysignal.com/2015/11... A special election in which Registration to vote was restricted to “Native Hawaiians,” who are defined as only those whose ancestors lived on the Hawaiian Islands prior to 1778.

So no Virginia, Racism and ethnic purity are not concepts only of "white people" These racist mutherfucks are even discriminating against Micronesians. Which is pretty nasty but they demand some sort of date based racial purity that even excludes their own.

So complely dropping the thin veneer of even sarcasm, these people are racists and grifting assholes, and frankly, I would be more than willing to have a military action taken against them. They are evil. Sorry, but the evilz racists 'Murricans were in a Revolutionary war when you decided who "true Hawaiians are, and even more sorry, we don't have to give you back "your" place any more than we have to graft ourselves on to great Britain. Don't like it? well, you know the secession drill.

Now see, wasn't that much nicer when I was just being sarcastic?

There were 20 million or more Tea Party supporters.

I wouldn't rely on that polling.

According to the SPLC, a far-Left anti-right orgranization, there are about 50,000 white supremacists (neo-Nazis, KKK, etc) in the entire US.

And mysteriously, Republicans opposed it when the FBI presented a report on them. Fortunately, there are others.

From those numbers alone, you can see your basic premise is bullshit.

Your argument is merely your opinion, it isn't especially convincing. But other opinions exist.

The fringe was ignored not because it was accepted, but because it basically DOESN'T EXIST outside of a media focus.

Nope. It wasn't just ignored. The right-wing fought hard to have it buried.

Why do you think the media always talks about Duke and Spenser?

Why do you think those are the only people they talk about?

None of the Tea Party marches endorsed racism, or supported Nazis, or advocated for oppression of opposition groups.

That long-repeated claim is about as believable as the claims that the Tea Party rallies don't leave a mess behind.

On the other hand, the Communists and Anarchists have always had a strong presence on the Left, in Occupy, BLM, and now Antifa. Antifa, which has now been declared a domestic terrorist organization for their continued use of violence against civilians in the pursuit of their political goals...

Declared by who? You? That's not convincing.

But your own condemnation reveals your lies, so I know better than to expect you to admit your mistake. I remember that the Communists, anarchists, the NAACP, the Unions, Occupy, BLM, and now AntiFa, have all been denounced by the right, and condemned, no matter what.

It loses its punch after a while. Meanwhile, you ignore the right-wing violence, and even endorse it. But "blood libel" isn't something you mind spreading to others.

Well that's a good question now isn't it? Because the person who put this thing together(UTR) goes by the name of Jason Kessler. Who right up until November 2016, was an avowed leftist, democrat supporter, proud obama supporter, and so on. We'll use the SLPC's own database on that.

And what exactly does "SLPC's own database" say? That there are "Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to involvement in the Occupy movement and past support for President Obama."

Wait , what, there are rumors? And everybody has to link to SLPC, because even those rumors are gone? Bu somehow everybody ignores the "rumors" part? Including you sucker?

By the way f**k fascists and f**k socialists and f**k racists - but a free society values free speech.

You realize these dipwads held get togethers for years and zero violence and zero coverage. Now, thanks to anti-free speech people like you they're all over the news. The f**king Streisand Affect all over again.

SRSLY? THe violence of these people has been caused by the streisand effect?

First off, the KKK has had a long long history of violence and killing https://www.splcenter.org/figh...

By your estimation, gentle and lawful Klan members were forced into violence in 1871 as well. Just an example. http://historymatters.gmu.edu/...

Fucking liberals in the 1920's http://www1.assumption.edu/ahc...

So if I read you right, it is liberals and anti-free speech people who are driving these gentle and innocent folks to kill them, correct? What a crock of shit. "We're gonna hang some Black people - and when you don't allow us to post that, we gonna go out and hang some Black people - and it's your fault because you didn't allow us to post that we're gonna hang some black people" That logic don't fly.

I have this Simpson's reference of Nelson grabbing Milhouse's arm and hitting him with it, saying "Quit Hitting Yourself! Quit hitting yourself! Quit Hitting yourself!

The organizer of this rally voted for Obama twice.

If you voted for Obama, you're a neo-nazi

Alternatively, if protesters hadn't protested against the KKK and Nazis, the KKK and Nazis would have been emboldened and run bigger marches next time round.

The Charlottesville rally was already set up to be the biggest white supremacist gathering in recent history, described by one of the organizers as "the biggest rally event we've had this millennium", pulling in members from the KKK, the proud boys, neo-Confederates, neo-nazis, and just about every other white supremacy group in the nation.

Still with all this coordination and bluster the event planner requested a permit for at most 400 people. Now that may seem like a lot but these people were coming from all over the country, hell that murderer that drove into the crowd was from Ohio. The white supremacy movement, with months of coordination and planning, could only gather less than 400 people for one of their hate rallys. There are high school graduating classes with more people than that. With the events in Charlottesville and the media's endless reporting before and after it may seem like these groups are very large and a profound influence on society, but the truth is that these people are a very very small minority of the population and most people do not believe like they do. The KKK and Nazi's may become as emboldened as they want, I do not see them ever fielding marches that exceed the size of a high school football stadium. Because no one wants to join them.

Yes, it's not like Obama ever used the legal system and other Federal agencies, departments, etc in even more blatantly unconstitutional and illegal ways to attack his & the Progressive's perceived political/ideological enemies...oh, wait...

If he did, why didn't the Republican Congress ever manage to impeach him over it? Why didn't they even investigate any of these alleged (though unidentified) actions? All we got was phony complaints about a report on right-wing extremism, a failed investigation into the IRS that found nothing and the rampant Birtherism. Oh, and a pointless lawsuit over the exchanges.

I suppose you could complain about being naive, but that's small potatoes compared to real problems in the prior administration.

You dumbasses were cheering Obama & the Feds on while he and they abused government & presidential powers to attack conservatives, Republicans, and anyone else who criticized the administration or DNC and never gave a thought to how a Republican POTUS and administration might use those same expanded powers, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly there's a problem.

Actually, it's you who is the dumbass, who cheered on fraudulent accusations about Obama abusing the government and attacking conservatives, Republicans, and anyone else you could identify, and spent 8 years screaming over the Affordable Care Act, denouncing the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (that Bush started under false pretenses), and never gave a thought to what would actually constitute governance if the shoe ever got on the other food.

Now it's you, Strat, who has the problem, because you're still stuck on railing over Obama, and can't change your tune, for some reason, perhaps a blind partisan bias, even as Trumpcare is tried to force through without public discourse, even as Trump's reckless Muslim Ban strands people in airports, even as Trump's jackbooted goons kickdown doors of anybody who opposes him, even as Trump buddies up with his pal Putin, even as Trump fails to even give a token nod to opposing bigotry and racism by the White Nationalist Supremacists who he is conspicuously told voted him into office.

What will you do...Oh wait, you'll double down and repeat your errors. Here's a clue, Blue, you need to deal with the man in the Oval Office, every pointless recrimination you make about Obama might as well be met with your own response to critiques about Bush when Obama was in office.

So those guys displaying swastikas, giving Nazi salutes, chanting "blood and soil", one wearing a t-shirt that said "Nazi" on it... Those guys weren't Nazis?

Well that's a good question now isn't it? Because the person who put this thing together(UTR) goes by the name of Jason Kessler. Who right up until November 2016, was an avowed leftist, democrat supporter, proud obama supporter, and so on. We'll use the SLPC's own database on that. And he suddenly established a new organization called "Unity & Security For America" in January of 2017. Now one can't forget either that he was working for CNN at one point.

Now you can ask what does this have to do with anything. Well it's starting to smell a lot like "bird dogging" something that democrats did several times during the RNC primaries, and during the 2016 presidential race. This is right out of the playbooks of Scott Foval and Bob Creamer, who were pushed out of the DNC when it came to light that they had been paying protesters to be violent at rallies. The most famous case of this was the near-riot in Chicago.

Now go read these two articles here and this article here. Then ask yourself why this organization's event(UTR) was announced on the facebook page of the Traditionalist Workers Party. Sounds very right-wing to me, doesn't it comrade. That's the same organization with ties to Yvette Felarca(of By Any Means Necessary or BAMN fame), who was arrested in relation to starting a riot....in California. I'll let you guess which one.

And now, we go off to the races. I'll say, there's a chance, a possibility that a devout democrat that deep could flip and support Trump. I've met them, the other stuff just doesn't seem to match up on the other hand. Especially the announcements.

However, if you spent some quality time with your local militia group, your skin would crawl. I personally know several people that grew up in some of the pseudo-christian groups, and hhttps://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10864545&cid=54811229#ave personal experience the terror and fear they generated in the towns near their compounds in Idaho, Montana, Utah, etc. Also see the stats at https://www.splcenter.org/2010... - those are just the tip of the iceberg, the ones that gain national attention.

I didn't want to reach too far back into the past, but the Klan comes to mind. http://bit.ly/2tcvOJo

Extremism respects no flavor or religion.

You're wrong, because the groups you're not talking about are conservatives, bullies, warriors for Christ, "freedom fighters" and so on. They *do* those things. ACT-America, Christian Action Network, John Birch Society, Oath Keepers, Justice Foundation, Christian Exodus, Agenda21Today, AFN, GOOOH, NCAUNT, WTP, TURF, AOF...are all violent right-wing groups.

But you'll never speak of them, will you? You'll claim that it's a "purely" left-wing thing, you'll wave your hands over the KKK, but wait a second, they're not the only group, now are they? (The Right-wing isn't stupid, they know the KKK brand is tainted, so they stick on a new label.)

In fact, you'll go into hysterics when their conduct is documented and reported.

And it isn't even limited to the US.

Yet you are entirely and utterly silent.

No word at all from you.

Oh, and one of your video was a fake.

But hey, I'm sure you can rant over a cake.

You're wrong, because the groups you're not talking about are conservatives, bullies, warriors for Christ, "freedom fighters" and so on. They *do* those things. ACT-America, Christian Action Network, John Birch Society, Oath Keepers, Justice Foundation, Christian Exodus, Agenda21Today, AFN, GOOOH, NCAUNT, WTP, TURF, AOF...are all violent right-wing groups.

But you'll never speak of them, will you? You'll claim that it's a "purely" left-wing thing, you'll wave your hands over the KKK, but wait a second, they're not the only group, now are they? (The Right-wing isn't stupid, they know the KKK brand is tainted, so they stick on a new label.)

In fact, you'll go into hysterics when their conduct is documented and reported.

And it isn't even limited to the US.

Yet you are entirely and utterly silent.

No word at all from you.

Oh, and one of your video was a fake.

But hey, I'm sure you can rant over a cake.

Yes, both sides have their extremes. You started with: "cozy up to the religious right, spawn the TEA partiers, and elect a cheeto.". The current batch on the left is anarchists, antifa, and riot. Obviously there is a stark difference as one is participating and advocating for violence.

At least be honest, or did you think we forgot? Did you think we did not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting/>remember? Did you think we were ignorant? Did you think we did not listen?

Your false sanctimony is rather egregious. Why do you bother?

That reddit is just The_Donald... What am I supposed to look at? I showed you specifically what I mean when I say "antifa" and "anarchists". Do you think someone is extreme for supporting Trump?

Are you incapable of studying that site on your own? Do you want others?

Here you go. https://www.splcenter.org/2016... From the horse's mouth.

No, the right IS attacking people RIGHT NOW.
Southern Poverty Law Center tracking reports of violence by the right. Over 400 since Trump Treason/a? day!

I'm flabbergasted that people as stupid as you exist.

Yes, people who see things other than the way you do, MUST be stupid, and that flabbergasts you.

Of course, that same attitude can be applied to others who see you, can't it?

Do you actually think the "KKK" is still a thing? Really?

Yep, and if not them, tons of other White Power Nationalist groups.

People do keep tabs on this.

Let's be frank, here, whatever is left of the KKK is a handful of useful idiot rednecks and a whole lot of government agents.

Sure man, sure. It's all fake then. Now that's a rabbit hole to go on down then.

After Trump "disavowed" the "KKK" endorsement, he was asked about 20 more times by the media why he wouldn't disavow the KKK. Funny how that works.

You mean after Trump said he knew nothing about David Duke. Which is an even bigger problem because Trump has denounced him over the years.

I'm sorry, but regardless of any question of racism or not, Trump's memory looks suspect from that exchange. And the timidity of Trump's response? It makes it seem less genuine. A forced denunciation isn't convincing, sorry. It's funny, it's like people can see you aren't committed to it or something.

If nothing else, you should be able to honestly admit that Trump's response was less than persuasive to many people, and that he fumbled that ball himself.

If you can't, then you won't understand the problem, and you'll just continue to make that same mistake that Trump did.

Yet, here we are, and people like you still actually believe this tripe because it fits your worldview.

For your own sake, please, I beg of you. Wake up and realize that the whole world isn't out to get you and there isn't a "racist" around every corner. The world is a much better place once you realize most people are just that: people trying to get through their days unbothered. Continuing to believe a lie after it's long since been disproven doesn't help anyone except the master of puppets who're pulling your strings.

Again, it's a time where somebody could say something about you. Wake up and realize there are still racists in the world, and that continuing to die they exist, continuing to refuse to admit to their continued existence, doesn't help your case with people who can see and recognize it happening. Dylan Roof isn't a goof who just woke up one day and acted crazy entirely on his own. Wade Michael Page didn't exist in a vacuum. Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr didn't come from nowhere. Cliven Bundy didn't make his racist statements on his own. Nor dozens of others.

Now maybe you can say that you have no association with them yourself. But then you have to admit to their existence, not deny it, and dismiss those concerned about their brand of hate. Maybe you can denounce them, if you admit they exist, but you know what? We live in a world where BLM is treated as a hate group in the entirety by the right. Where any protest, any criticism, any objection to the right, is treated as if it came from a group dedicated solely and exclusively to blind hate and intolerance. So that comes right back at you, don't it? I can admit there is the risk of violence from the misguided elements of the left, and from instigators, without compromising my beliefs. You seem to be baffled by the mere notion.

Like how you started your own post.

Me thinks the log in thine own eye is far greater than the mote in another's.

Amusingly, the captcha is unaware. A telling lesson. Don't be so unaware.

What? Several black churches were burned to the ground and N** sprayed painted everywhere. The KKK's brand of racism is alive and well.

You know, it's quite a coincidence that these attacks only occur during Presidential elections and only when Democrats are having a hard time 'motivating' black voters tiger to the polls and vote...

Except that burning down African-American churches is not something that only occurs during presidential elections. In fact, it happens all the time. We just notice it more during elections.

Here, for example are some stories from early 2015: http://www.theatlantic.com/nat...
and https://www.washingtonpost.com...
and https://www.washingtonpost.com...
and https://www.splcenter.org/hate...

Ah, common problem. You don't want to deal with it.

Not the first time. After all, if you claim it isn't something you've seen, it doesn't exist.

Too bad for you, it is a real problem.. Documented even.

I know, I know, you want to pretend to be above it all. But you can't help but make yourself look bad when you make such blatantly untrue statements.

Ah, MM, you're in good company:

https://www.splcenter.org/hate...

Anyhoo, just not sure how SJWs can complain they're oppressed when they're the ones with the hand on the ban hammer :)

Nobody is being prosecuted and thrown in jail for being poor.

I'm taking this a little wider than you intended, I apologize. Being jailed for being poor happens. For a well written, fact checked article on it, please see the following (warning: pdf) https://www.splcenter.org/site...

For a more humorous, assuming you can laugh at the absurdity of it all, take on this, please see the recent John Oliver clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

But for personal anecdote, I remember riding a bus and hearing a homeless person rant and rave about how if you have no money, you are breaking the law here. It sounds silly, until you think about how in many places, if you don't have money, you have no place to sleep, and there are a wealth of laws prohibiting sleeping in public places. Or if you need a restroom and there are no public bathrooms available, where do you go? Or if you are in an area and not buying something, what are you doing? Loitering?

Oh please
The reason the KKK "has been pretty peaceful" is that they've lost their constituency to other groups that just don't call themselves KKK like so called "sovereign citizens" and "patriot" groups and even "non-groups" like those who congregate on stormfront but have no official formal structure.

This isn't some sort of moderation of the KKK, its a result of social and technical changes. The violent extremists are still there doing their thing.

And your characterization of BLM is ridiculous. Your grandparents were saying the exact same shit about MLK and the civil rights movement in the 60s.

What good does that do? Over 1 in 5 people are Muslim. Treat them poorly and it will only create blowback down the road. Your fishing with way too big a net.

Now yeah, it works for Israel because they're a lot smaller. And they're not afraid to be an authoritarian, constitution-less apartheid state because they know big brother Sam has their back.

Don't think I'm just being PC here: there are just more useful indicators of radicalization than skin-tone and headwear. Also, threats can come from all directions, not just those you know about.

If Christians or Atheists committed the same number of atrocities, we would all agree with your sarchasm 100%. However, that is not the case. We don't have sleeper cells of atheists and Christians plotting to kill as many innocents as possible.

Is that so? You may want to click here and filter to "Christian Identity" to check your facts, bud. You might want to consider reading up on folks like these guys to see just how incorrect you are.

I will never understand why people like you can't admit the obvious. Instead you want to play games and try to find equivalence between a couple of Colorado crazies and the hundreds (thousands?) of attacks done by Muslims. Good luck trying to win hearts and minds with that approach. People aren't as stupid as you think they are.

Apparently, you may just be as stupid as I think you are. So this is a numbers game for you then? So by your rationale, if the "couple of crazies" had been more successful in their campaigns of terror, then it'd be the same, but because they cocked it up and didn't score enough kills, it's not the same thing? Seriously?

You really believe that there is no significant violence done in the name of Christianity?

If you're still incensed at these facts because it was the actions of a few "crazies" who are not representative of the overall religion, then CONGRATULATIONS!! You just learned something! You just learned EXACTLY my point. If YOU believe that the actions of these ISIS idiots are representative of Islam, then you're clearly not understanding how things work.....or you're desperately trying to make yourself feel better about Christianity for some reason......which probably means you consider yourself a Christian and therefore better than others.

Scientific racism is the use of scientific and pseudo-scientific techniques and hypotheses to support or justify the belief in racism, racial inferiority, racialism, racial superiority, or alternatively the practice of classifying individuals of different phenotypes into discrete races (Wikipedia). Scientific racism is what caused separate-but-equal, eugenics, forced sterilization, and widespread labor discrimination against blacks. It was widely preached by progressives, and still is to this day.

And I have a lovely bunch of coconuts! Have you perhaps been indulging in the more potent forms of Kava to extrapolate that from my postings?

Even from my other posts on this subject, I've noted that even the southern poverty law center, considers the so called native Hawaiians a racist group. https://www.splcenter.org/figh...

And they are just that. I don't say they are racist because of some DNA heritage, but because they have left adequate proof of their racism. From "Kill Hao

A group of native Hawaiians object on the grounds that the land has historic and spiritual significance. IMHO, both sides have standing, and I hope they work something out that preserves both of their interests.

There are two possibilities. Either these lands are public or they are private (or could be sold to a private group). If I build a telescope on my private land, you have no right to interfere with that even if it offends your religious beliefs. If the lands are public, then trying to maintain them in a way that caters to the religious feelings of any group amounts to an establishment of religion; that's unacceptable as well.

And, of course, "native Hawaiian" is an ill-defined and corrupt concept to begin with, so "native Hawaiians" ought not to have any legal standing as a group at all. That isn't just a question of justice; if you let people retroactively interfere with property and ownership rights based on their membership in some racial group, you create so much risk and uncertainty that you scare away investments and business. Any sane businessman and investor is going to ask: if we build a new power plant or factory or dock or shopping center, how much risk do we face that some "native Hawaiian group" is going to claim that we are treading on their sacred ground and kill the project halfway through, or demand pay-offs?

That isn't just a question of justice; if you let people retroactively interfere with property and ownership rights based on their membership in some racial group, you create so much risk and uncertainty that you scare away investments and business. Any sane businessman and investor is going to ask: if we build a new power plant or factory or dock or shopping center, how much risk do we face that some "native Hawaiian group" is going to claim that we are treading on their sacred ground and kill the project halfway through, or demand pay-offs?

Especially since the Mauna Kea Telescope is just a proxy fight. This group of Hawaiians at core do not want white people on "their" islands at all. The native Hawaiians refer to anyone not of their race as Haole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... , although it is mostly used as a racial epithet against Europeans.

From the article:

In 1944, Hawaiian scholar Charles Kenn wrote, "In the primary and esoteric meaning, haole indicates a race that has no relation to one's own; an outsider, one who does not conform to the mores of the group; one that is void of the life element because of inattention to natural laws which make for the goodness in man. In its secondary meaning, haole ... implies a thief, a robber, one not to be trusted.

In likewise manner, in Hawaiian schools, on the last day of school, they have "Kill Haole day", where natives are supposed to harass and attack the white students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

The Southern Poverty Law Center has this to say about the incredibly racist Hawaiians:

https://www.splcenter.org/figh...

So sorry Hawaiians, I consider you to be just as racist as the southern preacher in the 1859's preaching how the bible condones owning black people, as racist as any group of KKK members, who lynch and burn crosses on lawns. As racist as any southern state you care to name.

And do not even attempt to hand me the idea that since some white people have been racist, that its okay with you being racist, because you are then condoning their racism. You are 100 percent as big a collection of racist scum as they were.

Actually, everyone should be shocked and outraged by someone being mistreated because someone else's prejudices.

Really? Should they?

When those prejudices are based on numbers and statistics?

Except that won't help because that old white lady didn't carefully examine crime statistics to determine the correlation between skin color and criminal tendencies.

Are you so sure that isn't the case? Black people commit more violence (per-capita) than white people do. That is a well known fact.

Her fears are caused by racist baggage she's carrying around from her youth, from around or preceding the Civil Rights movement. That, in turn, is leftover from attempts to justify slavery.

That sounds like black propaganda, you're making assumptions about her fears, where as her fears are based on numbers and the fact that black people do in fact commit more crime than white people do, at least the violent kind.

The black community needs more Dr. Martin Luthar King's are fewer Louis Farrakhan's:

https://www.splcenter.org/figh...

"Farrakhan is an anti-Semite who routinely accuses Jews of manipulating the U.S. government and controlling the levers of world power. Farrakhan blames Jews for the slave trade, plantation slavery, Jim Crow, sharecropping and general black oppression. Farrakhan's tone grew more belligerent in June 2010, when he sent letters to several leaders of the Jewish community as well as the Southern Poverty Law Center demanding that they realize the evils they have perpetrated and that they work to further Farrakhan's goals. The letter ended with a threat to "ruin and destroy your power and influence here and throughout the world" if his terms were not met."

People like him do not serve the black community. White people (of which I am one) are happy to accept black people into our world, if they behave like civilized human beings.

A good example is Colin Powell, another would be Condoleezza Rice. Neither are perfect people, but both are examples of how black people should conduct themselves. I would vote for either one of them to be President.

I believe you may be conflating the KKK with Aryan Nation, which did have to give up its compound as the result of a court case.

This is more likely an expression of Hawiian nationalism which has been on the rise in recent years.

In some cases it has crossed the line into race hatred as the Southern Poverty Law Center noted a few years back.

And there are several independence groups. China has even offered to arm them.

> so our extremist groups tend to look more like the Westborough Baptist Church.

More like this actually. It's just assholes looking for something to rationalize their desire to be assholes. Religion is just one dish on that menu.

There are lots of terrorist attempts in Texas. For example, just in the past few months:

JW Confirms: 4 ISIS Terrorists Arrested in Texas in Last 36 Hours OCTOBER 08, 2014 -- http://www.judicialwatch.org/b...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/18/... 19 JUNE 2014 2 in Texas arrested in terror-related cases

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/... MARCH 28, 2014 FBI Smashes Alleged Radical-Right Terror Plot in Texas

You would be hard pressed to walk into a busy Starbucks here without a dozen people carrying guns, the terrorists wouldn't have hostages, they'd have a fight on their hands, and frankly they are cowards anyway, so they won't do that here.

It seems that many of these terrorists are largely unconcerned with their own death or the suffering of others.

Gun ownership does not appear to be, and it would not make sense if it were, a deterrent to terrorist attacks.

Death threats are illegal, they don't become legal because they're On The Internet any more than an old technology should become patentable because it's done On The Internet.

The legality of death threats is actually not a cut-and-dried issue. This article discusses various U.S. court cases related to death threats, and what criteria the courts use to determine whether they are protected free speech or not.

I suspect that a death threat accompanied by "doxxing" would be considered more serious than an isolated threat out of the blue in a chat room, since posting personal information would make it more likely that "a reasonable listener would understand [it] as an actual threat of violence" and not just rhetoric. But I'm not a lawyer, so I can't be certain of this. Of course, it goes without saying that the safest (and most ethical) course of conduct is not to issue any death threats at all.

American Third Position is a white-supremacist party. Above poster is therefore inherently advocating racism.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-i...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
http://american3rdposition.com...

Racism, anti-Semitism, sexism, homophobia, far-right Christianity.

Hey asshole progressive, the Democrats are the party of the KKK and rejected civil rights legislation. Who fukcing freed the slaves? REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT LINCOLN.

Hey asshole conservative, WHO is pushing NOW racist tripe like Southern Heritage, Confederate Flag...? And about Lincoln and some conservatives:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/200...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/s...

http://www.splcenter.org/get-i...

...

Citation given.

The entire country pointing and saying "You people are crazy and dangerous" is a better safeguard than throwing some folks in jail. (Hitler got thrown in jail too, and look what happened to him...)

From Hatewatch, yesterday: Legal problems for neo-Nazi Bill White keep piling up. Already in jail for one crime and awaiting sentencing for another, the 36-year-old racist was just indicted in Florida on six counts of using the Internet to make violent threats against investigators and a judge. [...] Count 1 of the indictment accuses White of sending a May 19, 2012, e-mail that "contained a threat to kidnap and injure" the three named officials and "specifically to kidnap, torture, rape and kill those persons and their spouses, children and grandchildren."

Did you forget to tell him he was "crazy and dangerous" or something?

"For it is the doom of men that they forget. -- Merlin, Excalibur [imdb.com]"

You forgot:

1995 Oklahoma City bombing

There's also a rather lengthy list of attack plans and actual attacks here.

It's not "THEM", it's all of us. These nutbars are rare and have a wide variety of motives, but they exist in every society, foreign and domestic. And by the interpretation you've offered, you've basically given the government a blank cheque for any and all kinds of invasive techniques to solve the problem. A never-ending war authorization.

Society will always be at battle with these people in some sense. That's what law enforcement is for. But there are rules under which it happens as a routine part of society's effort against violence. The traditional approach in a free democracy is not to be in a CONSTANT state of war where any and all activities are authorized as necessary. That's what we're talking about here: did we sign a blank cheque for implementation of a genuine police state? I don't think so. And some of this stuff wanders dangerously close to the line. Your long list of terrorist-related events doesn't justify getting ever closer to crossing that line, does it? Is that what you're saying? Or what's the damn point? Just declare martial law and get it over with. At least then we won't operate with the illusion that we are truly free.

"[*] I remember ~10 years ago a redneck couple in Texas was going to blow up some chemical plant when the wind was blowing the right direction to kill everyone in the adjacent company town (for obscure reasons). Somehow an undercover cop was on to them, got recruited into their plot, and hid a microphone/camera in their dashboard. The news televised the footage of the three of them sitting in their truck on a hillside overlooking the plant, discussing the plot, when the men with handcuffs came to take two of them away."

Found it. It was in 1998. The couple in question were Shawn and Catherine Adams, who with a couple of other KKK members were supposedly going to blow up a sour gas plant (hydrogen sulphide mixed with natural gas) near Fort Worth, Texas. The undercover cop (and a whole team of law enforcement officers) were on them because another KKK member was aware of what these nutballs were going to do and was supposedly concerned for innocent lives. The explosion was supposed to be a distraction for robbing a drug dealer. More details here. The whole gang was pretty idiotic and apparently the gas plant they had in mind appaerntly wasn't really a sour gas one anyway, so the damage might not have been as much as claimed. I found the initial mention of that case at this rather lengthy and scary list of potential and actual domestic bombings and other violent or potentially violent events (e.g., someone with obvious mental health problems and a history of violence who had amassed hundreds of pounds of explosives), but it looks like that list has the still-exaggerated original estimate of what would have happened if these people had been successful.

For an example of what I'm talking about, look at the Southern Poverty Law Center's pronouncements - including especially their advice to law enforcement and the Department of Homeland Security that displaying bumper stickers supporting Ron Paul during the presidential primary, or any of a number of other pro-Constitution or Tea Party political position messages, was a sign that the driver was a terrorist.

Let's see, upset at SPLC? Wonder why that is...

As far as designating drivers with Ron Paul stickers as terrorists, you are most likely confusing that (deliberately or not) with their investigations into and reporting on right wing hate groups that planned or carried out attacks. Like this one. I mean, if we are talking about militia groups, patriot movement groups, and sovereign citizens, we are talking about groups that have attacked or planned to attack police officers.

For an example of what I'm talking about, look at the Southern Poverty Law Center's pronouncements - including especially their advice to law enforcement and the Department of Homeland Security that displaying bumper stickers supporting Ron Paul during the presidential primary, or any of a number of other pro-Constitution or Tea Party political position messages, was a sign that the driver was a terrorist.

Let's see, upset at SPLC? Wonder why that is...

As far as designating drivers with Ron Paul stickers as terrorists, you are most likely confusing that (deliberately or not) with their investigations into and reporting on right wing hate groups that planned or carried out attacks. Like this one. I mean, if we are talking about militia groups, patriot movement groups, and sovereign citizens, we are talking about groups that have attacked or planned to attack police officers.

IF there truly are any "moderate" muslims (the politically-correct people keep telling us these moderates are the vast majority) then they should have wrapped-up and solved the whole "extremist" thing long ago...

Are you really that brainwashed or are you just a bigoted asshole?

Muslims are not a monolithic group. There are many sects and subgroups. Just like Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc. there are Muslims of all stripes. Including those that are just as bigoted as you. Why don't you go and make all the various sects of whatever bullshit religion (and they all are) you subscribe to play nice? Here in the US we probably have them all beat, as some have observed:

The USA is so enormous, and so numerous are its schools, colleges and religious seminaries, many devoted to special religious beliefs ranging from the unorthodox to the dotty, that we can hardly wonder at its yielding a more bounteous harvest of gobbledygook than the rest of the world put together. -- Sir Peter Medawar