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For some reason people want health care that won't bankrupt them. They look at what citizens of other industrialized nations get and want the same.

You mean eight hour waits in ambulances to game national healthcare system metrics, going to the US for treatment to avoid waits, and crackdowns on treatment for immigrants? Americans don't want the first, the second is redundant, and Obamacare will probably rule out the third.
   

Actually that isn't really true, is it? Only a small hand full of the documents he stole have been made available. Snowden reportedly had 50,000 documents just on UK intelligence operations. He obviously had many more about the US, not to mention Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, and other countries. We've only seen just the smallest, filtered part of the documents numbering, what, a couple of dozen? I think you are greatly exaggerating what has been seen. Also, we know that what has been released isn't limited to purely domestic surveillance which most people here think it is legitimate to expose, which means foreign intelligence gathering has been compromised, which many people here claim to not support. And yet the damage is still done.

As to repeating this sort of infiltration and theft, once Snowden left there was bound to be an investigation whether he disclosed the documents publically or not. There is no way that they could count on repeating this anyway, even if it was all a Russian operation. This really isn't much different than when the Cambridge Five left, and in particular, Kim Philby.

As for your theory, whatever helps you sleep at night. Personally, I don't believe that either the US or UK government is all powerful, which is why this incident will be so damaging. If they were all-powerful they could shrug off the damage, but they aren't all-powerful. The damage has in fact been irreversible. Regardless of whether or not Snowden had help, he did the inside work, and is responsible for the damage.

You should understand that it will take time before the damage is apparent. In some cases it will probably be years before certain consequences take place since it can take years of planning and preparation for terrorist attacks. But be clear, it is already having an effect.

There is a certain irony at play here. For decades, people suspected, and were very put off about it, that the NSA had weakened the DES encryption standard by the mysterious alteration of the S-Boxes when in fact they had secretly strengthened it against an attack they knew about that nobody outside of IBM (as far as we know) knew about. The mere possibility of the NSA weakening a current NIST approved encryption standard has people in a uproar despite the fact that the so-called evidence for it hovers between thin to non-existent, seems to be magnified in the retelling, and even if it was true could probably only be exploited by a nation state, and possibly only the US. And yet the same people are cheering on what must be the greatest loss of secret intelligence information on methods and operations ever, affecting multiple nations, as if there would be no consequence to that. Time will tell.

News flash 2 : people often hold stock for longer than a year. Except they are Gordon Gecko.

Did you know that the average share of stock in the Market is held for 22 seconds?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/9021946/How-long-does-the-average-share-holding-last-Just-22-seconds.html

The US and UK would have been happy to let it die, but the Russians and Chinese won't let it.

China and Russia spying at Cold War levels : US spy chief
Number of Russian spies in the UK back to Cold War levels, say security services

The facts that I mention are straight from the papers, Russian involvement at various points is clear. The only real question is, was it planned ahead of time, or were the Russians simply nimble enough on their feet to exploit an incredible opportunity when it fell into their lap? Either is possible. For what it is worth, Russian spies are as active as they were during the Cold War.

China and Russia spying at Cold War levels : US spy chief
Number of Russian spies in the UK back to Cold War levels, say security services

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-11/bulgaria-closes-probe-in-umbrella-assassination-after-35-years/4952448 Interesting how the case never made a court in any real way.
Or: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7965100/Murdered-British-spy-mystery-over-how-GCHQ-worker-was-killed.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian#Accusations_of_anti-Semitism_and_bias_in_coverage_of_Israel
http://cifwatch.com/2013/04/30/guardianap-story-on-tunisias-jews-omits-history-of-antisemitic-persecution/
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/91164/antisemitic-guardian-gaza-cartoon-shows-jews-puppeteers
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/08/reuters-bbc-and-guardian-celebrates.html#.UleSExBFNoo
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/06/1207175/-Guardian-Battles-Financial-Woes-Antisemitism-Allegations
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/624/the_guardian_acknowledges_a_degree_of_anti_semitism
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100196562/the-guardian-speaks-up-for-paedophiles-flirts-with-anti-semitism-and-jumps-on-every-crazy-leftist-bandwagon-in-sight-what-happened-to-quality-control/
http://engageonline.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/michael-white-guardian-assistant-editor-cries-israel-in-response-to-concern-over-lord-ahmeds-antisemitism/
http://cifwatch.com/2013/05/22/top-10-warning-signs-you-may-be-a-guardian-left-anti-semite/

Eagerly awaiting your reply. I'm especially excited about how many points get you on the last one.

No... that's one of the problems with anonymity, it's easier to fake. However, it's very, very important, especially in places in which your vote is more likely to be coerced. The advantages of anonymity far outweigh the disadvantages.

I totally agree. When the UK abandoned this fraud became more common. Of course Muslims are forcing votes in order to get sharia and terrorist friendly representatives:

There are strongly held views, based in particular on reported first-hand experience by some campaigners and elected representatives in particular, that electoral fraud is more likely to be committed by or in support of candidates standing for election in areas which are largely or predominately populated by some South Asian communities, specifically those with roots in parts of Pakistan or Bangladesh.

Completely agree with the parent. Most people here haven't been keeping track of the bigger picture.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

The Saudis tried to blackmail Putin into dropping their support of Syria, first offering them a secret oil deal, and then threatening to cause a terrorist attack during the Olympic games in Russia. Putin refused.

He gets to hold back the foreign take over by US backed "freedom fighters".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html

Same nice crew now in Libya :)

'Merica was going to free the shit out of them

He gets to hold back the foreign take over by US backed "freedom fighters".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html
Same nice crew now in Libya :)

Re [Syria] and ... "The US supports the more secular parts of the rebels."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html
IHS Jane's, a defence consultancy has some analysis via telegraph.co.uk:
"10,000 jihadists - who would include foreign fighters - fighting for powerful factions linked to al-Qaeda.."
"30,000 moderates belonging to groups that have an Islamic character, meaning only a small minority of the rebels are linked to secular or purely nationalist groups."

Re http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html
AL-CIAda: the freedom fighters that just keep on helping, generation after generation.
“I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,”

Saudis Threaten Russia With Olympic Terrorist Attacks Unless It Abandons Syria Support
Saudi Arabia threatens Russia with Olympic Terror
Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria
Bandar Bush threatens President Putin with Sochi terrorist attack
Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria

I applaud Google for this move but the solution is for LEO not to release pictures or other personally identifiable information about people who have not been convicted in the first place because doing so can ruin an innocent person's life and innocent people get charged with crimes all the time. On a related note, when Strauss-Kahn got the "perp walk" treatment, many in France were shocked because the practice is banned there to protect the innocent,

This indeed is the correct solution. If governments were not tossing these pictures about willy-nilly, these sites would not have any content of anybody who was later found not guilty. The sources are frequently sheriff's department websites that amount to a big giant campaign sight at taxpayer expense saying "Hey! Look how many people we are arresting for YOU!"

It is pretty haphazard too. I have been trying to get an FBI wanted poster from 1972, of a guy who was caught and confessed (for real) in 1986, but they keep saying it cannot be released because it is of a "living person." I ended up getting the 1982 version from a collector's site anyway.

I applaud Google for this move but the solution is for LEO not to release pictures or other personally identifiable information about people who have not been convicted in the first place because doing so can ruin an innocent person's life and innocent people get charged with crimes all the time. On a related note, when Strauss-Kahn got the "perp walk" treatment, many in France were shocked because the practice is banned there to protect the innocent,

Money talks, bribes sweeten deals... and at the last moment a copyright extension act will be rushed through. It happened before with "Cliff's Act". I should get a couple dozen eggs and let them rot away just in case "Sir" Cliff (the Public Domain's #1 Enemy) dares to show his face around these parts.

Give you a history of a larger income than you declared on taxes

This can not be done with the level of access an ordinary user has.

Or they could show you made payments to an online purveyor of kiddie porn

This can be done, yes. But it is already known, that electronic banking is not fool-proof and a person claiming, their account was accessed by an impostor, will be believed.

Or they can simply withdraw all the money leaving you stranded. But what they can — and do — instead is officially freeze your account(s).

and guess what they'd find when they seized your computers.

Interestingly enough, the US did not do that to Snowden. And although the attempts to manufacture "rape" accusations against Assange do ring a bell, no SSL keys were involved in that.

You do realise that in Australia a 1.5% levy on income tax covers the cost of a "free" health system for all Australians (taxpayer or otherwise),

That 1.5% income tax levy doesn't cover the whole cost of the healthcare system, not even close.

Expat guide to Australia: health care

All taxpayers contribute 1.5 per cent of income to Medicare. Higher earners contribute 2.5 per cent. This falls very far short of the budget required. Most funding comes from central government.

Healthcare costs rise to $130bn, or $5800 per Australian: report

Having said that, I think that the Australian healthcare system is interesting and probably a better model than some other national healthcare systems.

PRISM, purposefully weakening encryption, putting backdoors in products sold domestically, etc. seems to cover their actions against US citizens.

The damage that Mr. Snowden has done to the American intelligence community is incalculable and WILL cost lives going forward.

Bullshit. That was claimed about Manning's leak. But then it was acknowledged that no one had any actual evidence that anyone was actually harmed by it.

The sentencing hearing began with testimony from retired Brigadier General Robert Carr, who in 2010 led an emergency Pentagon review into the impact of leaked war logs from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Although the mass leak "hit us in the face" the review did not find any evidence that civilians named in the secret files had then been targeted by militants, Gen Carr said.

but I'm having a hard time seeing how leaking information about NSA's operations against China (just to pick one, there are others...) is anything but providing aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States.

Bullshit. Even James Clapper says otherwise:

As loath as I am to give any credit for what has happened here, which is egregious, some of the conversations that it has generated, some of the debate, is probably needed. So if there's a good side to this, maybe that's it.
Transparency of course is a double-edged sword. It's great for us, great for our citizens. But of course the adversary goes to school on that transparency too. But I'm convinced we have to err on the side of more transparency because, most importantly, we won't have any of this if we don't have the trust and confidence of citizens and their elected representatives.

And other quotes:

Nigel Inkster, former deputy chief of British intelligence service MI6, suggests of the leaks that they were “very embarrassing, uncomfortable, and unfortunate” but that while embarrassing the impact may not have been particularly great as “I sense that those most interested in the activities of the NSA and GCHQ have not been told very much they didn't know already or could have inferred.” He also suggests that Germany and other US allies have not been as outraged as they have seemed “The tears that have been shed internationally have been of the crocodile variety” so there is unlikely to be any reduction in ties between their intelligence agencies.

Stop believing the fear mongering nonsense told to you by people who only stand to gain power, favor and/or financial rewards by furthering these surveillance dragnets.

An award will make no difference whatsoever in prosecuting Snowden. The fact that the European Left considers him a hero is no more of a consideration in the US criminal justice system than the Soviet awards given to Kim Philby would have been to the United Kingdom. Oddly enough, both ended up in Russia.

Labour wanted mass immigration to make UK more multicultural, says former adviser

Ultimately though it's a problem that other countries are going to want to solve because by allowing it they're effectively subsidising Switzerland's wealth with tax money (and other proceeds of crime) owed to them.

So sure Switzerland can on one hand say "We're doing nothing wrong under our law" but as this is an international issue, at one extreme, other countries could simply ban all money transfers to Switzerland and bankrupt the country overnight. A less extreme measure given that most countries wouldn't want to see that happen but are still unhappy at their lack of cooperation is to simply tax all transactions in and out of Switzerland to discourage any kind of banking there but how high that tax is depends upon how hard everyone else wants to squeeze.

Of course the alternative is that the Swiss do do something themselves to deal with the problem, whether that's say, allow investigation of accounts whose holders are not Swiss citizens, through to full on transparency of accounts with other governments. Alternatively they could just refuse to allow accounts for non-citizens, or they could put conditions on non-citizens such as forfeiture of all funds to their country of nationality if they are found to be evading tax.

What they can't do is keep getting rich off of money that belongs to other states, do nothing about it, and then complain if other nations take action against Switzerland or it's banks. They can't expect to have a free ride off the back of others and there not be repercussions. Such extremes as action against Switzerland or it's banks may sound unlikely, but it's not far from the truth as to what is happening:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financial-crime/9779615/Switzerlands-oldest-bank-Wegelin-to-close-after-pleading-guilty-to-aiding-US-tax-evasion.html

I understand your viewpoint regarding privacy of accounts and not wanting banks to act as police, and sympathise with it because the idea of some average Joe from the tax office or bank fumbling through my bank statements does creep me out a lot, but as you can see there are other ways the problem can be dealt with of varying extremes. The question is, which one? Right now the direction is very much towards that of hitting Swiss banks or transactions directly given that their populace voted to keep banking secrecy either their government suggested a deal to better aid foreign investigations into evasion using Swiss banks. I'd applaud them for that vote if I didn't think they voted for it more to keep themselves an incredibly rich and wealthy state from criminally obtained funds, rather than because they give even the slightest shit about privacy, but maybe I'm just being cynical on that one.

It's worth noting though that it's been calculated that the amount of money being stored in tax havens (not just Switzerland) that was obtained through tax evasion is enough to solve the entire debt problems of Europe and still have a lot of change left over, so as you can see it's not a small problem, and that's why it's being taken so seriously now - it's reached a point where recouping even at least some of it can have a very meaningful effect on improving the world economic situation.

True, but Switzerland takes it up a level. Permanent tank traps in farmers fields, hidden military installations all over the country, bomb shelters, and a huge military reserve with regular training.

And for some of them, an almost fanatical dedication to the pope.

Hear, hear! Health care should be completely decoupled from employment. That would be pro-business, and I'm always amazed it hasn't been promoted as such. It works for Canada and many other countries.

If we based our views only on what we are generally told during these discussion on Slashdot we would have to believe that nationalized medical care is a bountiful panacea with no drawbacks. For some reason we seldom hear about the problems. Pretty much every nationalized healthcare system has it's problems, often significant ones.

For example, although many Britons are proud of the NHS for the high standard of care they feel it provides, it does have its critics and issues. The same is true for Canada's system, and those of other nations. An honest appraisal should include both sides of the story when they are being advocated.

Americans pay more, it is true, but they don't end up in the long queues for treatment that often exist in those systems. There are various other implications as well in terms of available treatments, and who the system is willing to treat.

The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

. The annual study “Paying More: Getting Less“ produced by the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, found that government-run monopolies established in each province of Canada (simultaneously barring private operators from competing for the delivery of public health services) produce rates of growth in government health care spending that are “not financially sustainable through public means alone.” Each province’s policy of insulating consumers from price signals, such as premiums, co-payments and deductibles, has naturally led to over-consumption of medical treatment. Thus provincial governments, encountering fiscal restraints, must resort to long queues and the rationing of care.

And wait patients must. A hospital survey of five countries (United States, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom and Australia), conducted by Robert Blendon and colleagues in Health Affairs found that “waits of six months or more for elective surgeries were reported to occur ‘very often’ or ‘often’ by 26–57 percent of executives in the four non-U.S. countries; only 1 percent of U.S. hospitals reported this. Half of all Canadian hospitals reported an average waiting time of over six months for a 65-year-old male requiring a routine hip replacement; no American hospital administrators reported waits this long. --- more

The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care
The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

Patients facing eight-hour waits in ambulances outside A&E departments
'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed
British healthcare in crisis despite massive investment
'Right to die' can become a 'duty to die'

Hear, hear! Health care should be completely decoupled from employment. That would be pro-business, and I'm always amazed it hasn't been promoted as such. It works for Canada and many other countries.

If we based our views only on what we are generally told during these discussion on Slashdot we would have to believe that nationalized medical care is a bountiful panacea with no drawbacks. For some reason we seldom hear about the problems. Pretty much every nationalized healthcare system has it's problems, often significant ones.

For example, although many Britons are proud of the NHS for the high standard of care they feel it provides, it does have its critics and issues. The same is true for Canada's system, and those of other nations. An honest appraisal should include both sides of the story when they are being advocated.

Americans pay more, it is true, but they don't end up in the long queues for treatment that often exist in those systems. There are various other implications as well in terms of available treatments, and who the system is willing to treat.

The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

. The annual study “Paying More: Getting Less“ produced by the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, found that government-run monopolies established in each province of Canada (simultaneously barring private operators from competing for the delivery of public health services) produce rates of growth in government health care spending that are “not financially sustainable through public means alone.” Each province’s policy of insulating consumers from price signals, such as premiums, co-payments and deductibles, has naturally led to over-consumption of medical treatment. Thus provincial governments, encountering fiscal restraints, must resort to long queues and the rationing of care.

And wait patients must. A hospital survey of five countries (United States, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom and Australia), conducted by Robert Blendon and colleagues in Health Affairs found that “waits of six months or more for elective surgeries were reported to occur ‘very often’ or ‘often’ by 26–57 percent of executives in the four non-U.S. countries; only 1 percent of U.S. hospitals reported this. Half of all Canadian hospitals reported an average waiting time of over six months for a 65-year-old male requiring a routine hip replacement; no American hospital administrators reported waits this long. --- more

The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care
The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

Patients facing eight-hour waits in ambulances outside A&E departments
'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed
British healthcare in crisis despite massive investment
'Right to die' can become a 'duty to die'

Hear, hear! Health care should be completely decoupled from employment. That would be pro-business, and I'm always amazed it hasn't been promoted as such. It works for Canada and many other countries.

If we based our views only on what we are generally told during these discussion on Slashdot we would have to believe that nationalized medical care is a bountiful panacea with no drawbacks. For some reason we seldom hear about the problems. Pretty much every nationalized healthcare system has it's problems, often significant ones.

For example, although many Britons are proud of the NHS for the high standard of care they feel it provides, it does have its critics and issues. The same is true for Canada's system, and those of other nations. An honest appraisal should include both sides of the story when they are being advocated.

Americans pay more, it is true, but they don't end up in the long queues for treatment that often exist in those systems. There are various other implications as well in terms of available treatments, and who the system is willing to treat.

The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

. The annual study “Paying More: Getting Less“ produced by the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, found that government-run monopolies established in each province of Canada (simultaneously barring private operators from competing for the delivery of public health services) produce rates of growth in government health care spending that are “not financially sustainable through public means alone.” Each province’s policy of insulating consumers from price signals, such as premiums, co-payments and deductibles, has naturally led to over-consumption of medical treatment. Thus provincial governments, encountering fiscal restraints, must resort to long queues and the rationing of care.

And wait patients must. A hospital survey of five countries (United States, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom and Australia), conducted by Robert Blendon and colleagues in Health Affairs found that “waits of six months or more for elective surgeries were reported to occur ‘very often’ or ‘often’ by 26–57 percent of executives in the four non-U.S. countries; only 1 percent of U.S. hospitals reported this. Half of all Canadian hospitals reported an average waiting time of over six months for a 65-year-old male requiring a routine hip replacement; no American hospital administrators reported waits this long. --- more

The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care
The Canadian Patients’ Remedy for Health Care: Go to America!

Patients facing eight-hour waits in ambulances outside A&E departments
'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed
British healthcare in crisis despite massive investment
'Right to die' can become a 'duty to die'

I know that the UK plays on patriotism and "terror" as much as the USA does.

Not quite. (And that's a British "not quite", i.e. a polite not at all.) You have to be very, very careful when being patriotic in Britain. There's a risk that you'll be seen as uneducated at best, nationalist / fascist at worst.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7608125/England-least-patriotic-country.html

From the first paragraph -- I can't tell you when St George's Day is, except it's April. The story is he killed a dragon, but I don't know why that links him to England. My idea of patriotism is far more about ideals -- e.g. historic laws -- than specific symbols, so it's not easy to represent.

You haven't read the latest news reports:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9819096/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/1000-knife-crime-victims-in-london-each-month-shocking-new-figures-show-8681511.html
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/12/workers-deepest-cuts-real-wages-ifs
http://rt.com/op-edge/osborne-scheme-property-market-crash-434/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2438168/Half-maternity-wards-turn-away-women-labour-Report-says-lives-risk-units-bursting-seams.html

The UK is going the same way as the USA. Everyone is fighting and clawing each other to get that "home in the catchment area of the good school" unless they can afford a private school. Which by the way is only affordable to company directors and senior government employees. Anyone who can't achieve that goal has no option but emigration.

Just a room in the edgier parts of London rents for £200/week.

Re terrorists, some other side is calling them freedom fighters.
Look how useful they are as freedom fighters in Syria :)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html
Great for use against Iran and bringing freedoms to Libya as freedom fighters too. Kept the media rating up in Afghanistan and Iraq as terrorists.

Given that their behaviour is grossly inconsistent with their other political views, one is forced to the conclusion that the NSA has got some means of coercion to get them to propose this.

There is another possibility you are overlooking. That is that their views may be informed by facts of various sorts, and they aren't totally forgetful.

Where's the warming, mother fucker?

Even your gods at the IPPC are struggling to explain why there hasn't been warming since 1998.

Interesting article from 2011 that claims: 21 men linked to Islamic extremist groups including al-Qaeda, have been using Brazil for various purposes including controlling inflows of money and planning attacks..

I don't see anybody calling the Syrian insurgency "terrorists"

I certainly do.

Pretty sure about that, yes. Sanctions on Iraq were imposed by the UN, not the US, and it was Saddam that was responsible for the actions of the Iraqi government, including the theft of oil for food program money that took money intended for food and medicine to build dozens of palaces and buy weapons. As to Vietnam, you did notice that it was an actual war, right? Even then the numbers aren't that large. You need to be thinking at least 10 million to be even in the ball park.

Why don't you take 10 minutes out of your life and watch this snippet of an award winning documentary. (And I would certainly encourage you to watch the whole thing sometime.) Then find me an example of the US doing something like that to its own people on a similar scale. If you want, try to find the US doing it elsewhere. I'll tell you now that it will be a futile search.

You seem to know a lot of things that are false. Iran rejected the proposal that other countries enrich uranium for it.

Iranian diplomat rejects nuclear fuel-swap proposal

Iran's envoy to the UN nuclear agency has made clear Tehran will not accept a western nuclear fuel-swap proposal intended to address concerns over its nuclear programme.

Egypt was the country that supplied Iraq with it's initial chemical weapons and know-how, not the US.

Report: Egypt's help crucial to Iraq's gas attacks

NEW YORK - Egypt secretly supplied crucial help - both technology and expert manpower - to the chemical weapons program of Saddam Hussein's Iraq in the 1980s, U.S. arms investigators have found.

The CIA's Iraq Survey Group says Egyptian specialists helped the Iraqis make "technological leaps" on poison gas at the height of the Iran-Iraq War, when Baghdad used nerve agents to kill thousands of Iranian soldiers and Iranian and Iraqi civilians. ...

The Cairo government rejected those earlier allegations, and Egypt's Washington embassy reiterated that denial when asked by about the CIA report. But U.N. arms inspectors who scoured Iraq's files and facilities in the 1990s corroborated the U.S. finding.

You're playing the "retaliation card" against the wrong country over a war that ended about 25 years ago. It was Iraq that attacked Iran, not the US. It was Egypt that helped Iraq with its chemical weapons, not the US. Iran is threatening mainly Israel, not the US, and occasionally Europe... not to mention its neighbors in the Gulf.

I'm puzzled how you manage to be wrong so consistently.

I remain sober as a judge.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4228828/Drunk-judge-suspended-for-kissing-lawyer-and-swearing-in-court.html

Thank you for proving my point.

How many people did the cops in Brazil kill today? The count so far: 11,000 in 6 years.

It's S Bach's composition. It's not a question of making it "better" but of distributing it to the masses.

Except that it's not always completely obvious what the composer intended. Sometimes there's the manuscript, often there isn't. Then it might have been copied by someone. The copy might have corrections - sometimes in the composers hand, sometimes not, sometimes it isn't known. Even the manuscript might have corrections that might or might not be the composers own.

A good editor will look at all the different sources, try to assess what the composer intended to write (and occasionally there are obvious wrong notes, sometimes there are notes that are presumed to be a mistake but it's impossible to be sure). The editor might provide a commentary discussing the different sources.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/100069784/the-most-exciting-musical-discovery-of-my-life-tchaikovskys-wrong-note-finally-corrected/

That's with 150 odd years less copying history to look through.

Since Snowden fled to what you describe as oppressive states, by your own logic then the "free world" is indeed the free world, and the indictment is of Snowden. Snowden's' goals in practice are no different than those of Kim Philby. We will always be able to count on the Left and those who hate the West in general, and the US and UK in particular to hold Snowden as a hero. The Soviet Union failed and crumbled, but little has really changed.

Wrong! The first rule you learn in the US Army is that you are to uphold the Constitution and defend the citizens. You also learn that you are not to obey orders that are unlawful and therefor illegal.

Uphold the Constitution, Defend the citizens, and lawful orders. That would be the Abu Ghraib iraq prison scandal, the US government putting prisoners in a room with mustard gas to test its effects, and shooting unarmed bystanders trying to help the injured after a botched air strike, respectively.

Wear the Uniform and learn the job before you spout off bullshit propaganda.

I think the work speaks for itself. I don't think I need to participate in the torture and murder of people, or use chemical weapons on them, to arrive at the conclusion that some of the things our military has done has been very shameful. That all said, our military is better than most, but waving the flag and saying we can do no wrong is propaganda, man. We need to move past being "pro-USA" or "pro-Russian" or "pro-chinese" and start being "pro-human", because patriotism is built on the same principles as racism, sexism, fascism, communism, and all the other isms: It is dogma. It is a refusal to admit to mistakes, a belief in your own moral superiority, and those two things combined have written some of the darkest chapters in human history.

As Einstein wrote, and I paraphrase: The pioneers of world peace will be the youth who refuse military service. Yeah, putting on the uniform can be an honorable and necessary thing. You won't hear very many people dissing WWII veterans. But as long as people like you are eager to sign up to go kill foreigners, our leaders have little incentive to find peaceful solutions.

You must have been living under a rock since the 1970's. Video games are actually a bigger industry than film, with (adult) pro-gamers getting paid millions. Welcome to the future... don't worry... we'll stay off your lawn.

If you found a way to make a fan that blows air out of potato chips, in principle that would not be patentable, because you just "stuck together" two existing things; fans and potato chips. It doesn't do anything novel.

Funny you should mention fans given Dyson's recent innovations. Dyson had to massage the wording of the patent quite massively to get their patent for the Air-Multiplier fan, not surprising given how it was invented by Toshiba in the 80s

"Massaging"?? Having just read that news report, it seems they just needed to include other inventive features of the design in the patent, which probably just means the claims had to be 'narrowed' to include that feature.

I don't see any issue with that. There is nothing wrong with patenting an improvement to an existing invention as long as it's non-trivial.

If you found a way to make a fan that blows air out of potato chips, in principle that would not be patentable, because you just "stuck together" two existing things; fans and potato chips. It doesn't do anything novel.

Funny you should mention fans given Dyson's recent innovations. Dyson had to massage the wording of the patent quite massively to get their patent for the Air-Multiplier fan, not surprising given how it was invented by Toshiba in the 80s

Fair points, and it's similar in Australia, certain areas are more violent than others. Conservative regional areas, some indigenous communities (where alcohol is allowed) , outer suburbs and anywhere alcohol is served can be dangerous. Though with alcohol, the same can be said of most countries. However US gun violence is not limited to gangs in the inner city, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10256057/US-teenagers-shot-Australian-baseball-player-because-they-were-bored.html

France should take it as such too! Surrender in 5...4...3...2...

Dude, it's 2013, not 2003. France are the US's new best chums now, because they were going to help with the planned strikes in Syria. In fact, John Kerry referred to France as their "oldest ally" in a manner widely interpreted as a snub to the UK, whose parliament had voted against taking part (although the Prime Minister had been in favour).

Of course, we've been here before with the positions reversed- we all remember when the UK went along with the Iraq war and France were against, how pathetically childish Bush was towards France and how he publicly flattered the UK and Tony Blair as the US's closest ally and best chum. Of course, Blair being an egotistical ***** continued sucking up to the US in the belief that this would buy further influence over them long after it was obvious to anyone that the US only did what it would have done anyway (and admitted as much in private). I commented on this circa 2007 and also noted that- even though Bush was still in power then- France (and Germany's) defiance of the US earlier in the decade had not resulted in any long term damage to their relationship with them, just as the UK had not gained any substantial influence with its sucking up.

In short, even if one is an amoral realpolitician (realpolitikian?!), it shows that public sucking-up to- and being publicly flattered as a junior partner by- the US buys little substantial long-term influence, and isn't worth worrying about as much as paranoid-about-losing-global-power British leaders like to think.

How times change.

Not really. There is a precedent, in fact, more than one. I'm sure I could find others.

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Because terrorists are so rare that they are not even worth worrying about, and never were.

Never? Ever? Hope isn't a strategy, and denial is a poor shield.

I also think you picked a rather ironic day to make that statement, the anniversary of an attack that killed 3,000 people and did $100,000,000,000 damage to the US economy.

You only think that terrorism is rare because so few large scale plots succeed in Western countries where the problem is largely under control. There are plenty of arrests and convictions that help keep it under control and make it appear that terrorists are rare. If you want to see what a country looks like where it isn't under control, think back a few years to Iraq. People on Slashdot and other places complained bitterly about the deaths of 100,000+ Iraqis. Well guess what? A major portion of them were killed by terrorists. Proportionately that would be something like 120,000 people a year killed in the US.

Most people pay no attention to it and try to pretend it isn't there. But it is there, a slow, steady stream of events that could mean successful attacks and mass casualties if not watched and interdicted by law enforcement.

Cellphone led FBI to Times Square car bomb suspect arrest
FBI arrests four California men in alleged terror plot
You must certainly know that I could post a much longer list of successful attacks killing many people if I chose to.

Contrary to the myopic view of some people, the point isn't to spread fear, or to get people to live in fear, but rather to take reasonable precautions. Keeping hand grenades off planes is a reasonable precaution. There is no good reason to have facsimile hand grenades on a plane. Keeping facsimile grenades off planes helps cut down on both confusion and the possibility of using one as a threat, as if it was a real grenade, a proposition few will want to test. After all, a grenade is a bomb, isn't it?

Now if you want to go down the "but other things kill way more many people than terrorists do" route, there are a few questions I'm going to ask you to answer since few of those other things have to do with willful human action resulting in mass murder. Few societies tolerate that.

So in summary, your view will be popular, but at best misguided or a demonstration of the power of denial. In fact I think the evidence indicates your answer is simply wrong.

Now if you excuse me, I have a few thousand people to remember, and I hope there won't be more.

CNN 09 11 2001 Live Unedited CNN News Coverage Of WTC Attacks

Every gov knows what Russia, the UK and US do with their "Consulate" floors

Oh come now A., the club is bigger than that! The majority of countries get in on the spy game at some level.
The Germans: The German Prism: Berlin Wants to Spy
Very involved in the current crisis: Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says German press
The Finns and Swedes can't be left out: Supo wants expanded net surveillance powers
Nor the French: France 'runs vast electronic spying operation using NSA-style methods'
The club is bigger still: Think US snooping is bad? Try Italy, India orCanada
Thousands of Russian spies in US: ex-CIA agent
Gordievsky: Russia has as many spies in Britain now as the USSR ever did
Chinese Spies Targeting U.K., MI5 Warns
But of course! Chinese use honeytraps to spy on French companies, intelligence report claims
Germany accuses China of industrial espionage
Germany targets Russian, Chinese spies
Spies in Sweden mostly from China, Russia, Iran
Number of Foreign Spies on the Rise in Finland
Austrian capital ‘filled with Iranian spies’
Foreign spies targeting Polish shale - Natural Gas Europe
Spain arrests three suspected of spying for Iran
Russia warns Ireland it will retaliate in spy row
FBI releases papers on Russian Irish spies in US - ‘Ghost Stories’

Sometimes the trails can get very complicated.

For some reason this video comes to mind: Its a Small World

According to this they did flee persecution;

In 1620, a group of English separatists, who became known as the Pilgrims, set sail for America to escape religious persecution amid the volatile religious and political climate. under James I.
Under the 1559 Act of Uniformity, their rejection of the Church of England was declared unlawful leading many members of their East Midlands congregation to flee to Holland.
However, concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group set out to create a new colony in North America and chartered the Mayflower, a cargo ship, for the purpose. They departed from a site near Mayflower Steps in Plymouth, Devon in September 1620.