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You really need to give Ubuntu a try. I have worked with all of the "newbie" distributions, and this one BY FAR is easier to work with than the others (Fedora, Mandrake, etc.). Also, if you decide to check it out, Ubuntu Guide will help get your feet wet. It will solve your #2 problem. As far as your #1 problem, you just need to spend more time in linux.

Yes. You probably won't find it listed as Mac, but a lot of distros have a PPC version, which runs on current Apple hardware. Ubuntu certainally does, as does Debian, and then of course there's PPC-specific distros like Yellow Dog.

I agree that apt-style package systems are the best way to manage applications. This Mezzo thingy (the SymphonyOS desktop) combined with synaptic for package management would, IMHO, make a great environment for average users.

No PPC machine will ever be worthless...

Some are.

Remove Debian and Ubuntu does indeed collapse.

Can't happen. Debian is OSS. Even if development stopped (and it won't) the work done wouldn't magically go away.

Ubuntu relies heavily on work done in testing and unstable by the Debain developers.

False, Ubuntu only uses Sid.

Some are.

Remove Debian and Ubuntu does indeed collapse.

Can't happen. Debian is OSS. Even if development stopped (and it won't) the work done wouldn't magically go away.

Ubuntu relies heavily on work done in testing and unstable by the Debain developers.

False, Ubuntu only uses Sid.

Is this because ubuntu is gaining popularity and large number of GNOME developres are in ubuntu camp?

First off it's spelled "interstellar". Secondly, it's pretty obvious that it's celebrating human accomplishments and innovation.

Thirdly, it was actually rendered on a laptop in space thanks to a certain Mark Shuttleworth, most recently known for his Ubuntu Linux distribution.

He may be a multi-zillionaire, but I have to admit he spends it on some pretty cool stuff. :-)

I've never used Knoppix but either you need to try a different distro or your modem came with a disc or a CD in which you can install the driver for it. Some hardware does actually come with drivers for linux while others are already supported by linux. Make sure there arn't any disks that you left in the box and try to use something like Debian http://www.debian.org/ or Suse http://www.novell.com/linux/suse/, Red Hat http://www.redhat.com/, Ubuntu http://www.ubuntulinux.org/, or maybe even a smaller distro like Ark http://www.arklinux.org/.

Knoppix is not the only Linux out there and by no means is it the best nor most popular. Hell I just gave you the better known ones. You could also try BSD. Just go to google and type in "BSD". Try dragonfly, Free, Net, or open BSD. Don't think that because one distro doesn't work that the others won't either. Each distro is very different.

Hope that helps, cause you don't seem to know about to many distro's.

"Hey, what about the fact that both OS clients are available to only a tiny portion of the market?"

What a silly thing to say. What is the 'market' you speak of, Windows? Windows isn't a market, it's an Operating System, well kind of, it operates some of the time. I could equally complain about this atrophic review on the basis that Outlook isn't available for my operating system, but the 'article' isn't about that.

This is a visual comparison of three popular clients, not a provision of options for the Windows user.

If you like what you see try Linux.

Here you go:

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HardwareSupportMac hinesLaptops

Unfortunatelly, you must check that compatibility list before buying an laptop with the purpose to use Ubuntu on it... :(

I really don't need to comment, but...

I guess I just needed to share my excitement in just ordering a brand new 15" PowerBook G4 (even though I'm sure the G5 will be out in a second). The machine is just so beautiful (the most beautiful in the world, I might add), clean, and sweet. I'm a hard-core Linux user (actually typing this from Slackware/FireFox, which will remain unchanged on this desktop server), but I figure that I'll take my chances with Apple one more time (last time was in 1997). Besides, OS-X is FreeBSD, i.e. Unix.

And, besides, if Apple tries to fsck me Microsoft style, I'll load Ubuntu faster than your next heartbeat on the beautiful machine.

Another reason why I switched.

Yes, but all it does is put a red stripe across your screen that reads, "The OS you are using appears to be dead. Consider installing something trendier."

1. Download Ubuntu Linux
2. Burn to CD
3. Boot from CD
4. Install over Windows

For some reason this completely removed IE from my computer!

Note: This procedure may also change your desktop background. You have been warned!

If you are on a small budget, you can just go with simple scripting. Pick a Debian based distro or an RPM based one (SuSE or RedHat only) and you can script all you need. Enable SSH for every system you deploy, desktop and server. Then you just write a few simple scripts _once_ and you can push down any update you need.

Red Hat has their own update stuff and you can pay them extra and run your own update server on your local network. However, where I work we have found Red Hat to be _way_, _way_ overpriced (I work for a multi-billion fortune 500). We are starting to look toward Novell SuSE for our Linux needs. Novell SuSE is _way_ better priced. If you look at a Red Hat Linux solution and an MS Windows Solution, MS will usually be less expensive! I personally don't know what Red Hat is thinking. However, if you go with Novell SuSE, you will see that Novell SuSE is far less expensive than MS. Also, Novell SuSE has some very nice tech that they got from Ximian. As you pointed out, Ximian, now Novell, Red Carpet, is a very nice corporate update client. That is the whole design of the product. You have one local update server and put the client on all your deployed systems and Novell Redcarpet handles the rest.

With Linux you have tons of options. If you have a really bare-bones budget, I would personally recommend a nice Debian solution. I have been using Ubuntu on my desktops at work and at home and have been very pleased with how easy it is to upgrade with out dependency problems. I originally used Fedora Core, however I would run into repository conflicts often because every Fedora repository out there tried to be "The" repository for Fedora. So you would have 3 or 4 versions of every package and they would all conflict. You won't run into that with a Debian based distro.

If you have a bigger budget, look into Novell SuSE (which is still very cheep) and their Red Carpet client/server to handle updates. If your budget is even bigger, you can look into BigFix. However, I think BigFix is priced more as a bigger corporate product, though for our budget, BigFix was still priced nicely per/client.

As I said, you have _tons_ of options with a GNU/Linux deployment. Build yourself a seperate subnet and spend a few days testing to see what level of support you want. Obviously, the less support you or your staff want to do, the more you will pay for your solution. You could spend 10's of thousands if not 100's of thousands (or millions like us) for a complete MS software "assurance" package or you can go very lowlevel and build your own GNU/Linux system like Linux From Scratch (which was very fun for a personal project but _way_ too much work for a professional solution for more than 5 systems).

I persoanlly think your best bet is a hybrid system of Linux and MS Windows. As I said, get a test lab/network. Then use the right tool for the right job. Try to build a lab that is all or almost all Linux servers with mostly MS Windows XP desktops. On your MS Windows desktops try to use OSS software. For example, deploy Firefox and OOo.org. Maybe for some more tech users you could even get some Linux desktops in that mix. For your development needs, use OSS tech such as Tomcat or PHP.

Honestly, I would personally love to be in your position. It sounds like you have the ability to use the "right tool for the right job" without all the PHB crap or extreme OS bias. Where I work we have 140,000 employees and changing technology is like the changing of the North pole ; )

I am using SuSE 9.3 Pro whit ZEN but just for a few days. Anyway i was using SuSE 9.2 and i can say that the YOU(Yast Online Update) is working just fine. If you intend to use Free Software use Ubuntu is free for home or comercial use as well. Just try it it has even free shipping.

I am using SuSE 9.3 Pro whit ZEN but just for a few days. Anyway i was using SuSE 9.2 and i can say that the YOU(Yast Online Update) is working just fine. If you intend to use Free Software use Ubuntu is free for home or comercial use as well. Just try it it has even free shipping.

I'm fairly sure that the tweaks he's talking about are just the general process for enabling suspend on Ubuntu, as it's not enabled by default.

Things you might consider:

Kubuntu Live CD (Info at Kubuntu.org)
Games Knoppix (Although the 0.2 release is accidentally missing a file manager. Also, the 0.2 version is not a "upgrade" of 0.1 - it has a different list of games, though they do overlap.)
Linux Live Game Project

All three of these are based on KDE, and so should be relatively familiar-looking for a Windows user. If you are comfortable enough with "Mac-like" theme, you can also try:

Ubuntu Live CD (Info at Ubuntulinux.org)

All of these are live CDs, which means that you can boot into them and try them out to your heart's content, without harming your existing windows installations. Those 5 CDs (Kubuntu, Ubuntu, Games-Knoppix 0.1 and 0.2 and LLGP) are what I give out to people to try out linux... Because there are games, they don't feel like it's so scary...

In order to get used to the command line (if that is one of your goals) the following may be useful:

The Command Line - The Best Newbie Interface? (an alternative perspective on the "scary" command line)
and
The CLI Series at Linux.com (Start at the last one on the last page "alias cat and pipe meet grep" and work your way up at your leisure.)

You may want to read and/or contibute to GrokDoc:
GrokDoc

ACPI sleep works on most modern laptops. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HoaryPMResults has rather more "Yes" entries than "No" ones, and a large number of the failures are now well understood. Toshiba, IBM and (surprisingly) Sony seem to be good for ACPI support. For HP, it depends on the range - a lot of their hardware is very different. Older Dells seem good, and some of their modern stuff works without problems.

Ubuntu has a list of favorite bounties...too modest for rent and ramen.

Sounds like you should look at Desktop distribution of Linux like http://ubuntulinux.org/ or http://mepis.org/. The latter installs in under 20 minutes from a 'try-before-you-buy' LiveCD. Click on the desktop icon elusively named "Install Me", and watch it all Just WorkTM. Every video codec under the sun, CD/DVD Burning, printing/scanning/camera, most wifi cards, ipod synchronisation and other fashionable dependencies therein.

Finding software for Linux couldn't be easier, no running around hunting an app down on websites and looking for 53r14alz. Open up your favourite package management GUI, click on "update", then "search", select what you like and finalise with "Install".

Really, there are no excuses; hence those that actually try a contemporary Desktop class distribution these days generally never look back.

I'd rather hack all desktop stuff out of Ubuntu [...]

No need. It's called a custom installation. It gives you a minimal system, just apt-get anything else you need.

If you want the latest release without as much stability as testing, use sid. If you want stable, little-older-than-sid distribution, use ubuntu. That's just how it is.

According to them it is. Quote: "Keep the Ubuntu installer in sync with the Debian installer as much as we can, and feed back relevant changes. Develop new installer features, in cooperation with Debian and with the other groups using d-i."

Canonical has the same business model of Red Hat or Mandriva- sell support for their distro. As is gets more popular, more people need support. Until then Ubuntu has a benefactor that is far richer than most in the OSS world...

1. sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx
2. sudo nvidia-glx-config enable
3. Restart X.

Just wondering out loud...does this release deliberately coincide with the release of the long-awaited NIN album With Teeth? Myself, I was up at 5:30 this morning downloading and burning it off iTunes.

Mr. Reznor did release The Hand That Feeds Garage Band tracks, a first, and a nice Apple marketing ploy to boot. Again, just wondering...

Also, this morning I realized that the only damn reason to keep Windows now that I've discovered Ubuntu is iTunes.

Exactly. There's no way I'm using any OS called "the hoary hedgehog release":
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/504Released

Not trying to troll here, but don't people pronounce these things? I'm not using an OS whose name sounds like a morally-loose member of the Insectivore family.

The summary gives the impression that Launchpad development just started, but it's been around for a few months at least. Bug reports from the unsupported packages in Ubuntu's latest release go to Malone, which is a part of Launchpad. Also, I think people have been using Rosetta to do translations for Hoary as well. It looks promising.

Before you ask, Launchpad isn't open source. Yet.

I do IT Support at a nearly 99% Microsoft site, so OSS isn't used there, but at home I run http://www.watsky.net/

I have 2 sisters with old PII class computers which they just use for surfing/email/WP. They ran Win98 and at least twice a month I would have to call out and fix their systems due to spyware or them accidentally deleting things or odd DLL problems. I moved the more tech savvy sister to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ and the "I refuse to use anything but Windows" sister to http://www.linspire.com/ about 3 months ago, and apart from some minor problems with a Lexmark printer I haven't heard a peep since from either of them and they are delighted with the computers.

At work I actually browse the net using a http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks32/ link from my XP machine to an OpenVMS box and surf with http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/csw b/cswb.html so I don't worry about spyware or viruses there either :)

Jonathan

http://www.justgofaster.com/

This means that, in general, you will have a tough time getting decent video performance out of your Mac running Linux..

I've found the opposite. I have a dual G4 tower at my disposal running Linux, and recently gave a 3D class on 10 eMacs running Linux. I chose Linux over OSX because the 3D performance was some 10-15% in frame rate alone across similar applications (Blender, Quake3). Furthermore this was using the DRI http://dri.sf.net/ instead of the proprietary drivers (which are not available for Linux PPC). Of course without the proprietary drivers you will miss out on GPU specific features like support for pixel and vertex shaders. Given that Linus develops for Linux on a PPC, I look forward to a bright future for Linux on the platform.

Airport however doesn't work - for the rest however it was a 15 minute, seamless install, and especially in the eMacs performance was overall much better.

http://ubuntulinux.org/

ubuntu does send cd's for free:
http://shipit.ubuntulinux.org/

just create an account, then at the end of the process tell them how many live or install cd's you want.

If you are bandwidth challenged (as I was until recently) then you have a number of options.

• Go with a distro that lets you do a netinstall and only download what you need.
• Go with a smaller distro. This is linux. You have the choice. Choose a distro that comes with everything. Choose a distro that fits on one CDROM. Choose!
• Work with the Fedora team to produce a netinstall version of Fedora (or pay someone else to do it for you.
• Get a friend with a faster internet connection to download it for you
• Pay somebody or another somebody to download it for you
• Buy a magazine that has a cover disc with the distro on it.

Disclaimer: Some options may be overly expensive or impractical due to your geographical location. Don't winge. Pick a different option.

Untrue. There already is a volunteer group that maintains the Universe, and they are more than appreciated, they have their own title- The Masters of the Universe.

The end result is Ubuntu - a fork. Unfortunately Ubuntu doesn't really tackle the packaging problem seriously: it improves on Debian by only stabilising a small base system, but this means you get to choose between (a) an out of date and small but stable repository (main) or (b) a large and up to date but often broken repository (universe). And I still haven't figured out WTF the "metaverse" is yet.

Actually, I've never had a problem with anything in the Universe, and I've never heard of anybody that did (and it wasn't some third party repo's fault). And I hang out on the forum a bunch.

The other part is the multiverse, non free packages such as the adobe acrobat reader.

Unfortunately the Ubuntu developers only go so far - they still believe it's possible for Ubuntu to package everything end users will ever need, even though at least in Warty, universe wasn't even enabled by default. I don't see any way for Ubuntu to stabilise universe without getting bogged down in the same mud that Debian did.

Its easy. The pay developers work on the main, release every six months and support a small base for their occupations. The universe is controlled by volunteers called the Masters of the Universe. This way the universe still gets support, but the main devs don't have to do it.

The end result is Ubuntu - a fork. Unfortunately Ubuntu doesn't really tackle the packaging problem seriously: it improves on Debian by only stabilising a small base system, but this means you get to choose between (a) an out of date and small but stable repository (main) or (b) a large and up to date but often broken repository (universe). And I still haven't figured out WTF the "metaverse" is yet.

Actually, I've never had a problem with anything in the Universe, and I've never heard of anybody that did (and it wasn't some third party repo's fault). And I hang out on the forum a bunch.

The other part is the multiverse, non free packages such as the adobe acrobat reader.

Unfortunately the Ubuntu developers only go so far - they still believe it's possible for Ubuntu to package everything end users will ever need, even though at least in Warty, universe wasn't even enabled by default. I don't see any way for Ubuntu to stabilise universe without getting bogged down in the same mud that Debian did.

Its easy. The pay developers work on the main, release every six months and support a small base for their occupations. The universe is controlled by volunteers called the Masters of the Universe. This way the universe still gets support, but the main devs don't have to do it.

There is a reasonably simple and very effective solution here. The Debian project supports, and in fact encourages co-maintainers for packages. This is a great way to get more manpower into the process and improve the quality of packages. The co-maintainer doesn't even have to be an official member of Debian if the maintainer sponsors the combined work.

I am a Debian developer, and one of the packages that I maintain has been patched by Ubuntu. I only found out about it by looking over the Ubuntu patch site. What I would like to see is the Ubuntu developer contact me, ask to be a co-maintainer, and get those changes directly into the Debian package. This is good for Debian - we get additional help in doing a good job. This is good for Ubuntu since they don't have to re-merge patches every six months. It helps the two groups act as a team, feel good about each other, and save on overall work. And, as the article points out, the increased compatibility between Debian, Ubuntu and all other Debian based distributions (including Knoppix) is a win for end users.

Now that Ubuntu is a rising star, and Debian has just finished Project Lead elections, I would like to see the leadership of the two organizations get together, discuss the idea, and hopefully agree that this is a good way to work together. The leadership can then promote co-maintainership as a 'best practice' within their own organizations, inform the userbase (i.e. get it mentioned on slashdot), PLUS appoint an interoperability liason. The liason's job is to hassle^H^H^H^H^H^H talk with individual developers to help make sure this actually happens. Branden, don't you think this would be a great first accomplishment as DPL?

Of course, there will still be some places where Debian and Ubuntu want to do something differently, so some packages will always be a little incompatible. But the bulk of the 'heavy lifting' across the thousands of packages is all about stuff developers generally agree on. Updating software, finding and fixing problems, improving quality. Ian Murdock is worried an impending 'nightmare'. I think if we can work together well, the upcoming Ubuntu/Debian relationship is going to be software distribution's finest hour.

But see how Fedora was ahead of them in all of these areas, and in some still is. That's because the Red Hat team focussed purely on the base distro instead of trying to package everything in the world, which is impossible.

That's also because Red Hat has more people working on those things than Canonical does. I think the count for the paid Ubuntu developers is at ten. I agree with the point that you're making though: it's easier to focus on those features in the base of the OS if you're not packaging the world.

Now, Ubuntu basically has a chance to do this. Strip even more out of main - why is Inkscape there? How many Ubuntu users are also vector graphics artists? It's out of date already, and has been for months, yet you can get up to date packages direct from inkscape.org.

Even though the Inkscape package is a version old, I think it's still very valuable to have. I know that I can install Inkscape and it will work. I don't think that the few extra features that are developed in six months time are worth sacrificing stability and reliability.

All distributions do is take free software and put it together in a package that works. Few things are created in house; the effort goes into making sure that all the pieces work together well. I think the best way to do that is with a centralized repository. Who do you go to when people with different base systems are all using the same upstream package and having different, distro dependent bugs? That's where these centralized distros excel. When there are problems with a program, you go to the distro first. They figure out what's wrong, and either fix it or notify upstream if that's where the problem is. The vision that you have for the role of the distribution only works if everyone is using the same distribution and package format. Then things would be easy. Application developers would run their own repositories and just tell the user to add it to install. Updates would happen automatically and everyone would be happy. The problem is, the upstream developers can't take on that responsibility with so many distributions out there. The distributors have to take over and make everything work.

Ubuntu universe includes Coq, a theorem prover whos own authors estimate that it has only 100 regular users, yet does not include gaim-vv, which adds webcam support to Gaim. What is wrong here?

Someone has to request it for it to get packaged, especially when it's in heavy development and doesn't do much at the moment. I added it to UniverseCandidates.

I'm sure there are better ways to handle software packaging that what's going on right now, but I think this is the best way that's been proposed and works within the current restraints. I'm glad there are people out there trying to think of better ways though.

It would seem that the Ubuntu people are already more or less doing this:

...is the "Ubuntu spatial" mode hacked into Nautilus (and turned on by default) just a few days before 5.04 went gold, which makes Ubuntu's file and folder management different from every other Gnome implementation out there. Why was this done? Seems Mark Shuttleworth decided by fiat that this new way is better. People are not amused.

Packages made for sid don't even work on sarge all the time without pulling in extra packages from sid. That's the same thing that happens with packages meant for Ubuntu. When you have different sets of software installed on various computers, one single package isn't going to work correctly on all of them unless you're willing to mix packages from different repositories.

I don't think it's really fair to say that Ubuntu is a net negative for Debian. It's definitely a net negative for sarge, since very little, if any, of the work put in to Ubuntu has trickled down to sarge. However, it's good for Debian as a whole because when the ball gets rolling for etch, most of the work will already be done. Ubuntu puts out stable releases for three of the four release arches for etch, so I doubt much extra work will be needed there, although I don't really know that much about what additional work would be necessary.

Sure, Ubuntu's existence has various downsides, such as the proliferation of deb packages provided by developers that only work on Ubuntu, but would those people have made Debian packages in the first place? The packages are merely a byproduct of Ubuntu's popularity, and more people using Debian and Debian derived distributions is definitely a net gain for Debian. I don't see why he would write off all the benefits that Ubuntu provides while focusing on a few issues that are negligible IMO.

The packaging issue is one that's never really going to go away. On his blog, Ian cites software developers and ISVs as reasons for unifying Debian and Ubuntu packages. All free software developers have to do to get their software packaged by Ubuntu is request it. The Ubuntu packagers work fairly close with the Debian developers to make sure that the work trickles down to Ubuntu proper as well. For commercial software it's a bit harder, but that's one of the things to deal with in the Linux ecosystem. Like I said before, packages made for sarge wouldn't even necessarily work on woody. You have to target specific sets of available software, or just distribute binaries that install the software based on various LSB assumptions.

Ubuntu is an "unofficial" version of Debian.

No. Ubuntu isn't a version of Debian, it's a fork.

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/doc ument_view

It's based on Debian, but its development runs seperately.

And here you can donate to help offset the cost of shipping you the free CD's.

I have been using Ubuntu Linux (Hoary Hedgehog) on my laptop for the past month without any problems. I have a Dell Inspiron 510m. All hardware detected and working... which was better than Windows XP, as I had to hunt for drivers... :-)

If you hadn't noticed already, Ubuntu 5.04 has just been released, and should you lot stop /.ing it, I will be able to apt-get dist-upgrade and be a happy user. :-)

Ubuntu 5.04 now provides images for installation from DVD. The DVD install image includes all supported packages, including those Not installed by default.

Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) Install/live DVD

The combined install/live DVD allows you either to install Ubuntu permanently on a computer, or (by entering 'live' at the boot prompt) to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all. There are three images available, each for a different type of computer:

Install/live DVD for AMD64 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for Intel x86 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for PowerPC computers (BitTorrent download)

Ubuntu 5.04 now provides images for installation from DVD. The DVD install image includes all supported packages, including those Not installed by default.

Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) Install/live DVD

The combined install/live DVD allows you either to install Ubuntu permanently on a computer, or (by entering 'live' at the boot prompt) to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all. There are three images available, each for a different type of computer:

Install/live DVD for AMD64 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for Intel x86 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for PowerPC computers (BitTorrent download)

Ubuntu 5.04 now provides images for installation from DVD. The DVD install image includes all supported packages, including those Not installed by default.

Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) Install/live DVD

The combined install/live DVD allows you either to install Ubuntu permanently on a computer, or (by entering 'live' at the boot prompt) to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all. There are three images available, each for a different type of computer:

Install/live DVD for AMD64 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for Intel x86 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for PowerPC computers (BitTorrent download)

Ubuntu 5.04 now provides images for installation from DVD. The DVD install image includes all supported packages, including those Not installed by default.

Ubuntu 5.04 (Hoary Hedgehog) Install/live DVD

The combined install/live DVD allows you either to install Ubuntu permanently on a computer, or (by entering 'live' at the boot prompt) to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all. There are three images available, each for a different type of computer:

Install/live DVD for AMD64 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for Intel x86 computers (BitTorrent download)

Install/live DVD for PowerPC computers (BitTorrent download)

Well enough. Having updates every 6 months, but security fixes for 18 months gives a bit of flexibility for timing upgrades.

There's alot more work to be done, though. Take a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ServerTeam if you want to see where it's going.