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I am a big fan of classic Heinlein. As you say, his "juveniles" are almost all worth reading. My favorite was Citizen of the Galaxy where we follow Thorby as he has to adjust at least four times to changes in his situation.

Like you, I enjoy reading David Weber's space opera stuff. The first two books in the Honor Harrington series are home runs. I'm still reading the series but I can't recommend the later books as much as I do the earlier ones.

You might want to check out another of my favorite books: Oath of Fealty by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's a near-future novel about an "arcology" built in the Los Angeles area after a horrible fire destroyed a large area. Some people really hate Todos Santos and are trying to destroy it; the people who live in Todos Santos love the place and are loyal to it. Hmm, I think I need to re-read that again. Baen has an ebook edition: http://webscription.net/p-683-oath-of-fealty.aspx

If you like military SF, you shouldn't miss the classic Falkenberg stories by Jerry Pournelle. My favorite was the novel The Mercenary, but over the years that novel has been bundled together with other Falkenberg stories in ever-larger volumes. The final result is The Prince which includes all the Falkenberg stories in one place. Once again Baen has an ebook: http://www.webscription.net/p-322-the-prince.aspx

I really enjoyed Aaron Allston's "Doc Sidhe" novels. Sadly there are only two. Allston has a deep love of the old "pulps" from the 30's, with characters like The Shadow; he wanted to write something sort of similar. I won't say much more because you can just read the first novel for free, courtesy of the Baen Free Library: http://www.webscription.net/p-110-doc-sidhe.aspx

I also enjoy pretty much everything ever written by Christopher Anvil. I will specifically recommend The Power of Illusion, a collection of Anvil stories. My favorite from that collection is a story called "The Day the Machines Stopped". Luckily, you can read that story from the "sample chapters" link for the Baen ebook: http://www.webscription.net/chapters/143913412X/143913412X.htm

steveha

I am a big fan of classic Heinlein. As you say, his "juveniles" are almost all worth reading. My favorite was Citizen of the Galaxy where we follow Thorby as he has to adjust at least four times to changes in his situation.

Like you, I enjoy reading David Weber's space opera stuff. The first two books in the Honor Harrington series are home runs. I'm still reading the series but I can't recommend the later books as much as I do the earlier ones.

You might want to check out another of my favorite books: Oath of Fealty by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's a near-future novel about an "arcology" built in the Los Angeles area after a horrible fire destroyed a large area. Some people really hate Todos Santos and are trying to destroy it; the people who live in Todos Santos love the place and are loyal to it. Hmm, I think I need to re-read that again. Baen has an ebook edition: http://webscription.net/p-683-oath-of-fealty.aspx

If you like military SF, you shouldn't miss the classic Falkenberg stories by Jerry Pournelle. My favorite was the novel The Mercenary, but over the years that novel has been bundled together with other Falkenberg stories in ever-larger volumes. The final result is The Prince which includes all the Falkenberg stories in one place. Once again Baen has an ebook: http://www.webscription.net/p-322-the-prince.aspx

I really enjoyed Aaron Allston's "Doc Sidhe" novels. Sadly there are only two. Allston has a deep love of the old "pulps" from the 30's, with characters like The Shadow; he wanted to write something sort of similar. I won't say much more because you can just read the first novel for free, courtesy of the Baen Free Library: http://www.webscription.net/p-110-doc-sidhe.aspx

I also enjoy pretty much everything ever written by Christopher Anvil. I will specifically recommend The Power of Illusion, a collection of Anvil stories. My favorite from that collection is a story called "The Day the Machines Stopped". Luckily, you can read that story from the "sample chapters" link for the Baen ebook: http://www.webscription.net/chapters/143913412X/143913412X.htm

steveha

I am a big fan of classic Heinlein. As you say, his "juveniles" are almost all worth reading. My favorite was Citizen of the Galaxy where we follow Thorby as he has to adjust at least four times to changes in his situation.

Like you, I enjoy reading David Weber's space opera stuff. The first two books in the Honor Harrington series are home runs. I'm still reading the series but I can't recommend the later books as much as I do the earlier ones.

You might want to check out another of my favorite books: Oath of Fealty by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's a near-future novel about an "arcology" built in the Los Angeles area after a horrible fire destroyed a large area. Some people really hate Todos Santos and are trying to destroy it; the people who live in Todos Santos love the place and are loyal to it. Hmm, I think I need to re-read that again. Baen has an ebook edition: http://webscription.net/p-683-oath-of-fealty.aspx

If you like military SF, you shouldn't miss the classic Falkenberg stories by Jerry Pournelle. My favorite was the novel The Mercenary, but over the years that novel has been bundled together with other Falkenberg stories in ever-larger volumes. The final result is The Prince which includes all the Falkenberg stories in one place. Once again Baen has an ebook: http://www.webscription.net/p-322-the-prince.aspx

I really enjoyed Aaron Allston's "Doc Sidhe" novels. Sadly there are only two. Allston has a deep love of the old "pulps" from the 30's, with characters like The Shadow; he wanted to write something sort of similar. I won't say much more because you can just read the first novel for free, courtesy of the Baen Free Library: http://www.webscription.net/p-110-doc-sidhe.aspx

I also enjoy pretty much everything ever written by Christopher Anvil. I will specifically recommend The Power of Illusion, a collection of Anvil stories. My favorite from that collection is a story called "The Day the Machines Stopped". Luckily, you can read that story from the "sample chapters" link for the Baen ebook: http://www.webscription.net/chapters/143913412X/143913412X.htm

steveha

I am a big fan of classic Heinlein. As you say, his "juveniles" are almost all worth reading. My favorite was Citizen of the Galaxy where we follow Thorby as he has to adjust at least four times to changes in his situation.

Like you, I enjoy reading David Weber's space opera stuff. The first two books in the Honor Harrington series are home runs. I'm still reading the series but I can't recommend the later books as much as I do the earlier ones.

You might want to check out another of my favorite books: Oath of Fealty by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's a near-future novel about an "arcology" built in the Los Angeles area after a horrible fire destroyed a large area. Some people really hate Todos Santos and are trying to destroy it; the people who live in Todos Santos love the place and are loyal to it. Hmm, I think I need to re-read that again. Baen has an ebook edition: http://webscription.net/p-683-oath-of-fealty.aspx

If you like military SF, you shouldn't miss the classic Falkenberg stories by Jerry Pournelle. My favorite was the novel The Mercenary, but over the years that novel has been bundled together with other Falkenberg stories in ever-larger volumes. The final result is The Prince which includes all the Falkenberg stories in one place. Once again Baen has an ebook: http://www.webscription.net/p-322-the-prince.aspx

I really enjoyed Aaron Allston's "Doc Sidhe" novels. Sadly there are only two. Allston has a deep love of the old "pulps" from the 30's, with characters like The Shadow; he wanted to write something sort of similar. I won't say much more because you can just read the first novel for free, courtesy of the Baen Free Library: http://www.webscription.net/p-110-doc-sidhe.aspx

I also enjoy pretty much everything ever written by Christopher Anvil. I will specifically recommend The Power of Illusion, a collection of Anvil stories. My favorite from that collection is a story called "The Day the Machines Stopped". Luckily, you can read that story from the "sample chapters" link for the Baen ebook: http://www.webscription.net/chapters/143913412X/143913412X.htm

steveha

**Baen's (normally inexpensive) books are also provided free of charge to those who are physically disabled: http://www.webscription.net/t-disabled.aspx **

Baen's Rocks!

Note their free library selections are pretty extensive; I read voraciously (and quickly, 350+ wpm) but it still took many months to get through their entire free library (http://www.baen.com/library/) several years ago. Awesome free resource.

So since I have had one of the early ebook devices (Sony prs) I have always had to look for ebook stores outside of the big 3 that are linked to the devices. Here are some of the ones where I shop:
no starch press
fictionwise
wowio - graphic novel ebooks
oreilly technical books
smashwords
Baen web scription
the ENTIRE Vorkosigan Saga

I was informed of the Baen Books website about 9-10 years ago. [here on /., actually]
The 'Baen_Library'[sub-folder' of my ''eBooks' folder] takes up around 15-16 GB's of my back-up drive. :-)

The Fifth Imperium website is about half of the aforementioned 15-16 GB's., the rest I've bought from the webscriptions site.[1]

As a side note, my 'eBooks' folder is about 21 GB's currently. It's size and contents change a lot.
I am an insatiable reader. Really.

[1]Real easy, and they do not spam your inbox, or anything else.
a. create account and log on info
      (non intrusive)
b. log in, set up your pref's and info
c. browse and purchase, read the first part of the book as 'sample chapters', or what ever.
d. The webscriptions site keeps track of the books you have purchased, so you can access those books to re-download from any PC you can log into the website from.

What's not to like?

My historic 'travel habits' were to pack my bags, go to the airport early, browse the bookstands, and buy a book or two fr the flight[s].

I now find myself looking exclusively for books by authors I have been exposed to from Baen Books.
(but, I don't travel air anymore because of the TSA BS., but was true for the past 5-6 years)

I know that I may sound like a Baen shill, but I am not...I am just that much of a fanboy. :-)

*credits to 'Guspaz (556486)' who started this thread.*

Seconding that.

I got onto the 1632/Ring of Fire series, and the Honor Harrington series through the Baen free library.

As validation of their model, I've since bought all of both series as ebooks from them (actually under the webscription model: 5-6 books, including the one I was looking for, for $15). I've also bought half of the Honor Harrington series as audio books through Audible, all through a couple of $5 loss-leaders.

Seconding that.

I got onto the 1632/Ring of Fire series, and the Honor Harrington series through the Baen free library.

As validation of their model, I've since bought all of both series as ebooks from them (actually under the webscription model: 5-6 books, including the one I was looking for, for $15). I've also bought half of the Honor Harrington series as audio books through Audible, all through a couple of $5 loss-leaders.

Most of my eBook purchases are from Baen. Cheap prices, free books, any format you could want, and no DRM? What's not to like?

For those who are curious about the "free books" part, Jim Baen and his authors discovered that giving away the first book or two in a series actually increased sales, and ended up putting a huge number of their books up for free download. And by "free" I mean "just like ones you pay for, DRM-free in all formats." Their free library's site can be found here:

http://www.baen.com/library/default.asp

And the books themselves can be downloaded from here (and also indirectly at the above link):

http://www.webscription.net/c-1-free-library.aspx

This sort of behaviour from content creators and publishers should be rewarded, so go check out some of the free books. There's so many to choose from, from so many authors, you're bound to find something you like! And if this post reads like an advertisement, well, I think they deserve it.

if the human race can not make life great on this planet then living in space where being even more efficient and much more benevolent is required to survive will never succeed.

humans are just inherently too stupid and greedy to survive for generations in some space ship or artificial planetoid type thing considering the track record we've made here on earth.

On the other hand, if being not-stupid and not-greedy actually is necessary for sustainable life, how long do you think it will take for the stupid/greedy people to hit the airlocks?

The stupids should actually self-select for attrition, whereas the greedy will most likely be selected as attrition candidates by others.

References:
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert Heinlein
Freehold, by Michael Z Williamson

Beware, shameless plugs ahead (and they're not even my companies):

Williamson's book (along with many others) is available for FREE at the Baen Free Library! This is a publisher who embraces "piracy" as advertisement (the way it should be!).
Enjoy your free SciFi/Fantasy binge. Ya don't even have to tell 'em I sent ya, and I don't think I would get anything if you did.

Also, if you purchase one of their books in hardback, you get a legally copyable CD full of eBooks along with it - check your local library, the CDs inside are excellent.

I recommend Aldiko for eBook reading on Android, and Calibre on Windows/Mac/Linux.
Sorry, I don't use iOS - so I don't know what reader you would need for that.

You can, you just have to be careful what and where you buy! It's called voting with your wallet! If you like the right type of SF&F then http://www.webscription.net/ is one such place, then there is Fictionwise.com's mutiformat books they are DRM free, lots of places like that around you just have to look for them and not get seduced by the Amazons and B&Ns of the world!

Oh, I understand the reasons completely. I was just venting that I get pissed that they consider ebooks 'cheaper' when they're a buck or so less than MSRP(~10% today), but you sign up for a B&N card you get 10% off just about everything(matching ebook prices), 40% off things like new hardcovers, and they regularly ship you coupons worth another 25-50% off. None of which are valid on the ebooks.

I consider a valid ebook price for a book available as a $10 paperback to be $5, not $9.

Take David Weber's just released 'How Firm a Foundation' - $13 ebook, $16.80 for the hardcover w/membership discount. Okay, a fair deal. But what about 'A Mighty Fortress', the previous book in the series? The paperback and ebook are both priced at $9. But with a discount I can get the pb for $8, assuming I'm not picking it up at a store that offers 'all' paperbacks at 25% off, dropping the price to $6.75.

I never bought many hardcovers, both due to price and space. But the price, combined with DRM, has driven me to Baen's webscriptions. Isn't it odd that it's the rightwing/libertarian publisher that offers the 'best' ebook pricing today? DRM free ebooks(available in rtf & html even!) that you can read on a computer with no additional software but your web browser? Very good!

Example: "Voyage across the Stars" by David Drake - $6. It's effectively $3 if I buy it as part of the 'webscription' of 7 $6 ebooks for $18. Buy 3, get 4 free!. Paperback price is $10.29. A 40% discount, even off of paperback price, not penalty for DRM, has me sold.

"Mark Elf" by Cordwainer Smith

If knowing the ending ruined all enjoyment, we wouldn't re-read books or watch movies again.

Still, there can be extra fun in enjoying a story for the first time and not knowing what will happen. You can only experience a story for the first time once; and if someone spoils the ending for you, you can't even do it once.

I really enjoy a good mystery story where the author plays fair with you, and you actually have a chance at figuring out who did it.

One of my favorites: the novel Too Many Magicians by Randall Garrett, available as part of an omnibus volume called Lord Darcy. I was blown away by the reveal, the first time I read it, but Garrett totally played fair with the reader. If you are clever you can figure out what happened.

Ironically, one of the pleasures of re-reading Too Many Magicians is seeing how deftly Garrett inserted the clues that would let the reader figure it out. Everything is there but nothing is obvious.

steveha

As you point out Baen meets all the requirements of a sane eBook publisher. No DRM, reasonable pricing (30-70% of paperback depending on age) and all 7 formats so you can read it on whatever tool you prefer. The older books do suffer from occasional OCR errors but someone clearly did some proofreading to clean out the worst ones. More to the point they've been profiting from this almost since day one. Plus they offer a hundred or so books free as a sort of digital library to hook new customers.

Baen free libray

Just buy DRM free ebooks. There are plenty to choose from. I especially like Baen Books. They specialize in Sci-Fi/Fantasy and have a free library where you can get selected full books from authors for free so you can find out which ones you like the best. Smashwords is also good. Their focus is self publishing authors and they sell every genre.

Just buy DRM free ebooks. There are plenty to choose from. I especially like Baen Books. They specialize in Sci-Fi/Fantasy and have a free library where you can get selected full books from authors for free so you can find out which ones you like the best. Smashwords is also good. Their focus is self publishing authors and they sell every genre.

I generally buy my eBooks from WebScription, which is mostly Baen SciFi, or FictionWise, which is everything else. Both are much cheaper than Amazon and both offer non-DRM'd books, often in multiple formats. Sure, their site design is not as snazy as Amazon or Kobo or even Diesel, but I can find what I want and get it at a reasonable cost with no DRM most of the time.

I started with Kobo, but, at one point, I bought a book listed as "mobile", which I assumed was suitable for an eBook reader in a venue without WiFi, but discovered that, by "mobile", they meant online. Even though I hadn't read a page, they wouldn't refund my money, so I looked elsewhere, discovered WebScription and FictionWise and haven't looked back. Both are, not only cheaper than Amazon, but also generally cheaper than Kobo as an added benefit.

I refuse to buy e-Books until the prices come down to lower than paperbacks [snip]. And I'm certainly not going to buy them if they are locked to a device or a certain company's devices.

Baen books from http://www.webscription.net/ satisfy both of your requirements. If you purchase the monthly Webscription pack you get 6 - 8 books for $18 (use to be $15, they just raised the price). The books are completely DRM free, available in multiple formats, and can be downloaded over and over if you change devices which require different formats. Or just download the ePub format and use Calibre (mentioned above) to convert it to any format you need.

I've resisted so far as well. Thankfully at least a couple of vendors offer DRM free versions of ebooks like Baen.

If you like science fiction, I suggest you take a look at Baen Books. There is no DRM at all on any of their ebooks and they even offer a selection of their ebooks completely free of charge. They offer the free library so you can find out for yourself whether or not you'll like a particular author and hopefully buy their other works. It's not completely clear from their website but they keep track of your purchases and let you re-download them whenever you need to. They've clearly got the right policies to earn my business.

An even more appropriate Heinlein reference would be to "The Bat's Cave" in The Menace From Earth.

There's standing up for a "free" internet and then also making sure that people can't easily steal web video content with a simple click. NO business in their right mind would agree to something like that.

Several businesses in related fields already do, and do fine. All my paid for ebooks are from http://www.webscription.net/ which does not employ any kind of DRM. I've bought a ton of games from http://www.gog.com/ which are all without any DRM (I've also bought some games with online activation, but no Steam because even the one free game I have from them insists on half-updating itself from time to time and then refusing to run until it can finish its online verification process).

While it's certainly possible that DRM-free business models are not applicable to every kind of company or market, I think it's quite wrong to categorically posit that no DRM means that that a company by definition is not going to be viable merely because its content can be more easily copied.

Dahak, is that you?

I just finished reading One Jump Ahead by Mark L. Van Name (Baen Publishing).The story is set in the future where all machines and appliances have AI and are connected to the "Net". So you have to be nice to your washer so it doesn't gossip about you, etc. I trust (as I adjust my tin foil car bra) that the system would be used only for good purposes, but I can't help think that we are hurrying to reach the cool/scary future that is often depicted in sci-fi literature.

Two slashdot posts by me on general problems with research and peer review:
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1932134&cid=34740048
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1932134&cid=34740098

Others stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Latour
"In the laboratory, Latour and Woolgar observed that a typical experiment produces only inconclusive data that is attributed to failure of the apparatus or experimental method, and that a large part of scientific training involves learning how to make the subjective decision of what data to keep and what data to throw out. To an untrained outsider, Latour and Woolgar argued the entire process resembles not an unbiased search for truth and accuracy but a mechanism for ignoring data that contradicts scientific orthodoxy."

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/jan/15/drug-companies-doctorsa-story-of-corruption/?pagination=false
"The problems I've discussed are not limited to psychiatry, although they reach their most florid form there. Similar conflicts of interest and biases exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs or devices. It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine."

http://www.webscription.net/p-236-kicking-the-sacred-cow.aspx
"Galileo may have been forced to deny that the Earth moves around the Sun; but in the end, science triumphed. Nowadays science fearlessly pursues truth, shining the pure light of reason on the mysteries of the universe. Or does it As bestselling author James P. Hogan demonstrates in this fact-filled and thoroughly documented study, science has its own roster of hidebound pronouncements which are Not to be Questioned. Among the dogma-laden subjects he examines are Darwinism, global warming, the big bang, problems with relativity, radon and radiation, holes in the ozone layer, the cause of AIDS, and the controversy over Velikovsky. Hogan explains the basics of each controversy with his clear, informative style, in a book that will be fascinating for anyone with an interest in the frontiers of modern science."

One hopes that eventually science is self-correcting, but can that sometimes take centuries?

One must examine all possibilities before jumping to any conclusions. Maybe Baen Books doesn't publish anything worth pirating. :^)

You can't tell me that Chicks in Chainmail is not worth pirating!

In all fairness, one of the reasons there's such a low piracy rate on Baen's books is that they are free to distribute as long as you don't charge for them

Baen on their own website has many first books in series available: http://www.baen.com/library/

Also, they've released CD's of books in many of their hardcovers over the years, with a license that allows copying, including online. One site that has them available is http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/

The only versions of their books that are electronically available and not allowed to be distributed are the ones purchased at http://www.webscription.net/

It does. It also sound similar to the idea needed for Quantum Connected CPUs from Travis S. Taylor's book "The Quantum Connection" (from Baen, the first few chapters are available free online here: http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743498968/0743498968.htm?blurb. The idea of the Quantum Connected CPUs is built up in chapters 4,5 and 6 which are included in the free sample.

( now all we need is the AI, and a few other things, and the Galaxy is our oyster :D )

For guarding these (not that I like the idea):
    "South Korea's Machine Gun Sentry Robot"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5YftEAbmMQ

And see James P. Hogan's "The Two Faces of Tomorrow" (1979) for a good depiction of maintenance drones that repair and extend a computer network.
    http://www.jamesphogan.com/books/book.php?titleID=28
    http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0671878484/0671878484.htm

So, in the long term, there are even fewer jobs from this than you pessimistically (but accurately) predict.

We need to rethink the fundamentals of an economy based on the idea of work-or-starve even as our economy can produce endless goods and services easily now using robotics and other automation, better design, and voluntary social networks... Some ideas I put together on that are here:
    http://knol.google.com/k/paul-d-fernhout/beyond-a-jobless-recovery#Four_long(2D)term_heterodox_alternatives

I'd love to buy some e-books, but I don't want any of the DRM restrictions they come with.

Check out the e-books from the publisher Baen. No DRM, multiple formats, reasonable prices. http://webscription.net/

Note that I have no relationship with Baen other than as a very satisfied customer.

You should look into Baen's e-books. No DRM, reasonable prices, multiple formats. http://webscription.net./

You'd think so, but the US Military has bigger guns and bigger idiots, so revolt could never occur.

You are absolutely correct. The US has a completely uniform set of beliefs and personalities. The idea that a career officer and top graduate of the United States Military Academy might choose reluctantly choose a path contrary to the President is absolutely absurd.

Such a revolt could NEVER occur in the United States.

End sarcasm.

Now, regardless of your position on the Civil War in the United States (which historically speaking wasn't that long ago), the idea that IF things were to get bad in the US I highly doubt our military would remain unfragmented. I would actually expect it could have an outcome similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis, while that result was surprisingly bloodless and fast, it could easily have been horrifically violent. The outcome hinged on the responses of the administration which, as we know, are always fluctuating.

Absolutely correct (sorry, no mod points), but I'll add, in case anyone missed it in the Parent's post, that Robert E Lee was a decorated graduate of West Point, and a Career Military officer who was (so far as I recall), originally asked to command the Union Forces (before Grant was asked).

For the best treatment of a "second" Civil War, I'd suggest people try reading A State of Disobediance by Tom Kratman. The link is to the Baen Library that has the first few chapters on-line free (think of like giving a Junkie the first fix :) ).

NASA could coordinate a global effort towards designing and deploying self-Replicating Space Habitats that can duplicate themselves from sunlight and asteroidal ore; ideas towards that here by me:
    http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/SSI_Fernhout2001_web.html
    http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/
    http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=62113&cid=5821178
and others who inspired me:
    http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/
    http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0671878484/0671878484.htm
    http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Bernal/world/

From the last, written in the 1920s by J.D. Bernal: "Imagine a spherical shell ten miles or so in diameter, made of the lightest materials and mostly hollow; for this purpose the new molecular materials would be admirably suited. Owing to the absence of gravitation its construction would not be an engineering feat of any magnitude. The source of the material out of which this would be made would only be in small part drawn from the earth; for the great bulk of the structure would be made out of the substance of one or more smaller asteroids, rings of Saturn or other planetary detritus. The initial stages of construction are the most difficult to imagine. They will probably consist of attaching an asteroid of some hundred years or so diameter to a space vessel, hollowing it out and using the removed material to build the first protective shell. Afterwards the shell could be re-worked, bit by bit, using elaborated and more suitable substances and at the same time increasing its size by diminishing its thickness. The globe would fulfil all the functions by which our earth manages to support life. In default of a gravitational field it has, perforce, to keep its atmosphere and the greater portion of its life inside; but as all its nourishment comes in the form of energy through its outer surface it would be forced to resemble on the whole an enormously complicated single-celled plant."

Anyway, I work towards that dream on-and-off as I can...

Which is why Outlook decided to ignore my clicking of the date picker dropdown until such time as I restarted it. I said "do A" and it said "Go fuck yourself". But what do you expect from a teenager?
Face it, we have so many interactions already happening on a computer that we wave our hands in the air and say "time for a reboot" instead of actually trying to figure out what is really happening. I'm not saying that Microsoft is paving the way for AI, but I think as complexity grows, unintended behaviour starts to creep in, and we start to get to the point where AI can just start happening, at a very rudimentary level. Toss in some fuzzy logic and circuits that return mostly the same result, and the possibility for something outside of the scope of a modern computer starts to be possible.
It's not exactly my idea, James P. Hogan has similar thoughts.

No, it's older than that - didn't James H Schmitz describe this . . . . oh, wait, The Searcher was purple . . . Or am I thinking of ST:TOS The Companion?

http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0671319841/0671319841.htm "Like a sheet of living purple fire, the thing flowed with eerie swiftness along the surface of one of the Depot's side streets..."

Well, when it gets to the point that very little human labor or entrepreneurship is necessary in creating goods, we will almost be at a point where economics basically doesn't apply anymore, because everything will be near-free.

That's just a fiction, and it depends on robots that are mutually owned by everyone. A large leap of faith is required to get there from here. Since the society changes slowly, we can presume existence of all kinds of transitional forms.

For example, let's posit that Toyota fully robotized its factories, from energy production to mining to smelting to manufacturing. Even all dealerships are robotted by robots. The CEO of Toyota is a computer. Great. The labor costs to make one car are zero; let's assume that robots don't wear out, and that Japanese taxes are out of the equation.

Once that wonderful car factory is built, it's still owned by a few shareholders - all of them humans. Do you think the board will decide to give cars away just because it costs them nothing to produce? (assume that competition is in the same boat.) Imagine ex-Toyota worker who was assembling cars for decades, and he is now fired. He goes to the dealership and tells the robot there that he has no money, and no prospects of getting any, but he wants a car. What do you think will happen?

About engineers. This all-new factory needs engineers. How many? Not too many; perhaps one per 1,000 robots. There are many engineers on the planet, but Toyota needs only a few. Do you think they will be overpaid, if for every one there are 100 standing in line at the HR office? And even if that engineer is indeed overpaid (say, getting $250K/yr on today's pay scale) how many other people this salary can sustain? Maybe five, if he spends it all. That's not a sufficient ratio.

So the point is, as long as humans are involved you will get problems. Penniless people are not a market; they will be seen as a human waste, ready for the Dipple:

To the south was the Dipple, a collection of utilitarian, stark, unattractive housing. To live there was a badge of inferiority. A man from the Dipple had three choices for a cloudy future. He could try to exist without subcitizenship and a work permit, haunting the Casual Labor Center to compete with too many of his fellows for the very limited crumbs of employment; he could somehow raise the stiff entrance fee and buy his way into the strictly illegal but flourishing and perilous Thieves' Guild; or he could sign on as contract labor and be shipped off world in deep freeze with no beforehand knowledge of his destination or work.

Again, the problem is that in a highly roboticized society very few humans would be able to offer valuable services. Most would be simply irrelevant. One solution to that is that the society owns robots, all of them, and everyone benefits from them equally or however it pleases them. That is generally known as Communism. There is nothing really wrong with that, except that it had been attempted, and it doesn't work. Even its earlier phase, Socialism, results in decay of the society because that's what people do when they don't have to work for a piece of bread. You can find plenty of examples in the USA of what happens when too many idle hands are concentrated in some "inner cities." USSR attempted to build a "new human" and failed; but without that new human, who is all gentle, kind and thoughtful, you can't have your Communism, unless roaming gangs of killers on motorcycles is one of your preferences. So far every single society that was attempted proved that a human *must* work hard to stay sane. And if someone doesn't want to work hard he must be forced to do so, through the law (USSR) or physical needs (USA).

To summarize, introduction of a large number of community-owned robots into the economy would be identical to placing everyone on social security and food stamps. And we know very well how that works and what results can be expected.

I read this as just another shot in that war. Don't get me wrong . . . a reader-seller-neutral format would be cool (ePub might not be inappropriate) but Penguin seems an odd advocate given that they're whining because Amazon was willing to lose money on their books...

Baen seems to handle this just fine with non-DRMed formats of .html, .mobi etc. etc. If THEY were the ones advocating this, it might be worth getting behind.

One of my first thoughts was the fantasy novel Demon Blade. Magic is fueled by life energy, and you can get it from yourself, or your surroundings. Hence, wizards spent a lot of their free time eating and getting fat. Gotta be prepared...

Suppose I have a Kindle (or, say, one of the requisite apps on some other hardware platform), and I've bought a few books for it that I've noted and highlighted. Suppose, then, that I lose my Kindle. Or it gets run over by a bus. Or stolen. Or dunked in a hot tub. Or whatever.

All I have to do is procure/install a new Kindle, enter the appropriate account identification, and my books and notes are transferred to the new device.

Which, you must admit, is pretty cool. (Hey luddites! The cloud has uses!)

The fatal flaw in your argument is your unspoken assumption that a specific type of hardware owned by the provider is necessary to implement this scenario. I can think of three examples off the top of my head that invalidate that assumption. The first is available for MS Windows and OS/X today; Valve's Steam service.

"Ahh," you say, "That's for games, not books." True, but let's take a look at what Steam provides anyhow. There are hundreds of games from dozens of companies available through the store. The store is set up to allow an individual to purchase, download, and install any game listed on multiple PCs as long as only one login is active at any time.

The second is O'Reilly Publishing's Safari Books Online. This browser based, subscription service allows you to search through all of the online publications that O'Reilly has created. Depending upon the level of subscription that you buy, you can download immediately, or purchase access to, any publication that catches your interest.

The final example is Baen Publishing's Webscription.Net. Here you'll find books from Baen and six other publishing companies. Again, browser based so no special hardware necessary.

Although the name implies an ongoing charge to access material, no such subscription is required. Buy a book once and you can download it in several different DRM free formats. (Yes I said DRM FREE!)

Webscription keeps track of what you have already purchased, so a lost or trashed copy is no problem. Just log in and download your books again.

(BTW, Baen Publishing also hosts the Baen Free Library as a marketing tool. More than 40 authors have agreed to post some or all of their books there for free. Yes, I said FREE. DRM free, too. You don't even have to create an account to get access to all this largesse. :) Well worth browsing if you like science fiction or fantasy.)

Of the three alternate services that I've noted above, Webscription is clearly the most user friendly. What Amazon can provide that the other services can't is a much, MUCH broader range of material. That is a huge advantage and in IMO that is what is driving Kindle sales more than any other factor. (I don't mean to say that I think the hardware itself is trash. Quite the contrary.)

So, instead, please: Let's simply discuss the implications of Amazon sharing your highlights with others. (This is a matter that I really don't have any opinion on in this instance, but I guess I'll don my flamesuit anyway...)

The nub of the issue is that any vendor supplied solution inevitably means is that you're locked in to some extent. It's the nature of the beast. The question is, how much lock-in are you willing to accept in order to take advantage of the service? How much re-use of your personal information are you willing to accept?

Getting back to the immediate issue at hand: In my view, the fact that (a) it's only highlights; (b) it's anonymized; and (c) it's turned off by default makes it a pretty benign use of personal information. Frankly, if Amazon offered similar functionality as software on a platform that I already owned, I might seriously consider using it.

The real issue for me is that I have no d

And you made me remember: Polywater Doodle!

Leave it Baen Books to put some of my childhood back up on the web for free. Anyway, their DRM-free marketing strategy works for me, I've never bought any ebooks anywhere else!

If the future people would even notice. They might just visit a few times in 1969 and never go back. http://www.webscription.net/p-291-mutineers-moon.aspx

If you like sci-fi or fantasy, buy your books from Baen Books. They sell eBooks directly to the customer, no DRM, pricing at about $2 per book (more for collections). Also, they give many books away for free - the first book in a trilogy, etc.

The free books are in the Baen Free Library, the shop is called Webscription.net. Support publishers like this, and the other publishers will have to fall in line.

What do you mean by "buy"?

Since there is no physical medium, I don't think a "buy" model will ever happen. So that probably means no re-selling to, say, used book stores, or donating to libraries (which typically then sell the books you donate).

If you mean, "without any DRM," then there's Baen's Webscription, which offers a variety of formats, all without DRM. And the Apple deal with publishers allegedly allows the publishers to decided whether or not they want the content DRM'd. (Gee, I wonder what the vast majority of them will choose...)

And how many milliseconds would it take to simulate intellectual growth of twenty years in a simulated environment?

And then there is the issue that networked systems can all pool their learning and may never forget.

See also "The Two Faces of Tommorrow":
    http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0671878484/0671878484.htm

On sensory deprivation, yes, maybe:
    "The Schumann Computer"
    http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=146

And deeper issues:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes'_Error

And there may also be a law of diminishing returns to intelligence. But, not before smart machines drive the cost of most human labor to near zero, ending mainstream economics as we know it.

Baen's eBook price is a lot lower than $9.99...

Depends on where you're looking. Their "Free Library" sells for less than $9.99. Almost all of them appear to be at least 5 years old, and I saw one that was published over 30 years ago. But, their http://www.webscription.net/ page lists a number of books as well. Out of the eBooks being sold on that page, they had seven different eBooks selling for $15. One selling for $6. A two-book series for $9, and one collection of seven books selling for $35 (normally $62). All seven eBooks selling for $15 are books being published in 2010. The other books are older (the $6 eBook was published in 1996). It appears that Baen sells new eBooks for $15, and charges quite a bit less for older books.

I think the scenario could play out that way, and it would truly suck for gaming.

But we should keep perspective. Here are some ways you can still have fun even if/when this nightmare scenario occurs:

• Read a good, paper book.

Or even a good, DRM-free e-book.

I think you just gave your age away, old-timer! :-)
In addition, you probably confused most of the kids hanging out on your lawn as a bonus.

For those of you that wondering:

Briquette Bardot==Brigitte Bardot

Now, get off his lawn...and quit drooling!

BTW, thanks for the trip down Memory Lane, and the excuse to look up B.B. again!

"Mind if I sit down?" Retief pulled out a chair, seated himself, and took out a cigar.

signed,

        Another Keith Laumer fan.

My roommate has tons of David Weber books...very prolific writer. Haven't read his stuff...due to my eyes getting worse & worse the older I get.

http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0743435710/0743435710.htm
Here ya go, complete 1st novel free in the series "On Basilisk Station", thank you very much Eric Flint.
Change the font size on your browser to something comfortable and ya got a personal "Large Print Edition"
Other free novels: "Retief!" (in the series: "West of Honor", "Changer of Worlds","Crown of Slaves","The Honor of the Queen","The Shadow of Saganami") here:
http://baen.com/library/