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I think it has more to do with how mature hardware is in a given space, than any desire to arbitrarily Obsolete machines.

I can't speak toward the 68XXX machines, but I was an apple user during the transition to Intel architecture. Intel started rolling out during Tiger's (OS 10.4) deployment period.

Apple released Leopard (10.5) with support for both Intel and PPC.

One of the major features of 10.6 (from what I remember) is Grand Central Dispatch, allowing programs to run on multi-core machines, without having to explicitly code for multiple cores. Apple started transitioning to Intel chipsets in 2006, OSX 10.6 was released in mid 2009, about 3 1/2 years later. While it is sad to see older hardware not able to run the latest and greatest versions of the OS we may want, the sad fact is that coding to two separate architectures, especially one that has not been sold for 3.5 years does not make sense.

G4s and G5s will run OSX 10.5 just fine, and should work well for most people who write email, browse the web, and occasionally use it for other things.

I'm "aware of the problem" but at least now with Intel based Macs, the machines will always be able to run Linux pretty well... hell, even Windows 7 for that matter. I'm guessing Apple is already regretting their decision to go with Intel based architecture.

Pitty there isn't/wasn't a way to run Linux on all those PPC architecture computers ... oh wait http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/. Really, Apple could care less what OS you choose to run on your computer, as long as they were the ones to sell you the hardware.

With the iPhone, the hardware has seen major upgrades in terms of functionality since the initial model has been released. This is still a very evolving market-space, and I expect hardware specs to keep evolving in the SmartPhone space for another generation or two before they start to stabilize on features enough to have a "common" hardware platform to work off of.

Some of this complaint of obsolescence seems almost like complaining that I can't run Windows XP on my 386.

yellowdog http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

It isn't.

Multicore has been with us for over a decade now. It is practical and conducive to build open cores from class declaration up so methods, file types and handlers exist between architectures and at same time there's decoupling of needed resources as processes.

To point the way to what exists now there's Yellow Dog Linux for both Macintosh and Apple's PPC platform:

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/products/faq/

The older version works on MacOS 8/9. The new one works on Mac OS X.

Linmac or lintel would be most nice for us micro-engineers. The smaller businesses we want to associate with could branch away from both static software design and largescale deployment tied to that very design, focusing more on customizing digital end-pieces to attach to current semiconductor inputs if the correlated software to do that in places (like EAGLE for Ubuntu) is manufactured and delivered in an open core form of engagement.

I dont know how you managed to bork your mini, but you have the option to buy your Mac from YellowDog, and they are running Linux just fine. Yellow Dog

It was version 10.2*, so if anyone knows of a patch I can send this person, then please let me know.

Here you go: your patch.

>> I personally don't like OSX, but LOVE the Apple hardware. I would be interested in purchasing a Titanium (x86) and putting Windows and Linux on it.

Go ahead! -- Beginner friendly Linux for Mac

Right On! brother.

O.k. Mac OS X is the Mach microkernel with the BSD everything else using Quartz (licensed from SUN) for video.

That sounds like NeXT.
The mach microkernel with BSD everything else. The exception is Quartz as NeXT used X11.

Man, Steve-o must love that mach microkernel. I don't know why I would run Mac OS X as I did truly love my old Mac OS (nods to the boos and hisses, Thank you! Thank you very much!).

You can download something like NeXT for free.

I got turned away at the interface. Way too sugary for me and the price tag. Before OS X new systems were $99. But OS X is $130! And I think but they just recycled half of it!

So, yes. I do not "get" OS X.
And no. You cannot convince me otherwise.

I had been intersted in Linux for a few years and tried out Yellow Dog for about a year before I switched full time.
What can I not do that I did on my old MacOS?
Games. And I prefer those on a console.

The have a "Buy Now" link, and they are a company, so why don't these guys count?

By your measure, you could say Microsoft is the only company that sells an OS for Intel's computers.

They do - in a way.

Yellow Dog Linux is an Apple "Value Added Reseller". From their website:

A Unique Apple Reseller

Terra Soft, an Apple Authorized OEM VAR (Value Added Reseller) is granted a unique license to install Yellow Dog Linux on Apple computers and maintain full Apple hardware warranty for home, commercial, education, and government customers.

If that isn't approval by Apple, I don't know what is.

Well why does Apple give up PPC then? Freescale ships dual core powerPC chips soon. They are 32 bit.

G5 on laptop didn't happen, it could not happen or... maybe as IBM says, Apple didn't want them.

I am checking YellowDog Linux running PowerPC machines ( http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/ ) for my future desktop.

Games? Well PS/3 with Cell processor or a Xbox with a G5 variant will certainly make them better.

Apple eventually closed up access to the hardware documentation, so Be couldn't support it anymore.

A half dozen other alternative OS's were able to boot perfectly well on Apple's PPC boxes, including several still with us (YellowDog anyone?) None of them had the benefit of having hired away a bunch of Apple engineers...

No, the "difference" was that Intel's investment arm had just dumped a boatload of cash on the struggling Be, gotten a seat on their board, and maneuvered them to going x86. Rather then confess this to the faithful however Be decided to piss all over the company that had spurned 'em and claim Apple made 'em leave Mac/PPC (boohoo)

Lesson learned? It's hard enough for free OS's to compete against the MS juggernaut, much less pricey half-written 'multimedia' ones. At least Nextstep had a richer OS & development environment, some customers beyond the hobbyist market. Oh, and was able to convince Apple to pay them $400 million to take over Apple's OS R&D.

Here's a few you might have heard of:

1. Mac OS X (duh)
2. FreeBSD
3. NetBSD
4. OpenBSD
5. Yellow Dog
6. Fedora (RHL)
7. Debian
8. Gentoo

9. MS Windows

Oh, wait ... http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

Seriously, I see your point - if everyone was running OSX on non-Apple hardware, Apple would need to do something. But even if it is pirated, I don't think Apple will care. The slashdot types that are running a hacked version of OSX were never going to by an apple box anyways (and there aren't that many of them).

A prediction: OSX will be cracked to run on white boxes within 6 months of release. And Apple won't do a thing, because, outside of slashdot, no one will care.

How many people do you think would like to run Windows or Linux on a cool looking mac?

These already all run on current (ie PPC) Macs:

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/
http://debian.org/
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/
http://www.gentoo.org/ ...and probably more, with even more distros likely working once the move to Intel is completed.

I also seem to recall that Apple mentioned that Windows would run on the Intel-based Macs.

Or Linux on a snazzy new Mac?

Is anyone doing that already (on existing Macs)?

Yellow Dog Linux, for one....

Well, it will at least kill one Linux vendor.

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/
they have made hardware that uses PPC chips that can not run the Mac OS. there is open firmware or boot rom stuff missing on the motherboard. that stuff does not live in the processor, or on a drive. granted yellowdog is a legit company and had no interest in making machines that booted OS X or OS 9, so a bunch of crafty hackers would be another thing.

just because the processor may be the same as another PC it does not mean the motherboard is, and there may be some key non-open things on there to require OS X to boot. i don't really know though, i would guess with Darwin it may be easier than ever to "emulate" Aqua on an unsupported box.

Buy Powerbooks running YellowDog Linux. http://yellowdoglinux.com/ Screw HP if they are stuck with Microsoft.

Maintaining an OS monopoly? Heh, yes, of course, because we all know there aren't other operating systems available for the Mac...

Read more details here.

Wireless works through Mac-On-Linux which is included. Onboard sound for Non-G5 machines at the moment (mini onboard sound doesn't work at the moment either). Sleep function works now for laptops.

Features http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/products/ydl.shtml
Purchase http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/purchase.p hp?submit=ydl#ydl

(I still need to buy a computer to run linux on).

You can configure an Apple Xserve this way, with either one or two CPUs. Not an AMD board, but it is 64bit, and you can still put Linux on it if you like.

$14,599--One CPU, 80GB HD, CD-RW, no video support, but 16GB of RAM and an unlimited user Server OS. You can do better if you purchase through the Education or Government channels, and you can do better if you purchase the 2GB DIMMs elsewhere.

Although I actually couldn't find 2GB DIMMs at the popular aftermarket places, but they are now available from Apple direct (just be sure to get the Xserve with at least one 2GB DIMM, to be sure it has support for 2GB DIMMs on the MLB).

Just buy an Apple PowerBook or iBook and freaking be done with it! Run OS X if you care more about stuff just 'WORKING'. You can run all of your Open Source software under OS X! Plus you can run all the Apple Software including MS Office! Install the developer tools, install X11 and then go install Fink. You can ssh into your Linux / BSD / Solaris / AIX boxen, run X11 apps remotely, etc. Every *nix user and sysadmin I run into drools over my PowerBook, it's getting to the point where I have to carry a towel with me!

Or if you are a GNU/Open Source Purist, put Linux on the iBook / PowerBook. They are the most supported laptops available for Linux. Most everything works as it should even under Linux! Even Linux Torvalds is running a PowerMac G5 workstation (it was a gift and it blows away most x86 hardware), albeit running Linux and not OS X.

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/ 4.0.1 now supports sleep mode on the Apple laptops w/ATI video cards. Not everything works even on Apple hardware.

Apart from the fact I actually *like* the Gnome desktop better than OS X, I can still use the Mini to run all of my favorite Unix apps.

Umm, why don't you run yellow dog linux? Then you can run all your favorite linux apps with your favorite desktop environment.

Yellow Dog Linux uses Fedora Core. They list audio issues with the 2.6 kernel for that model G3. I can't imagine KDE being too snappy, Firefox would be a dog.

Yellow Dog Linux uses Fedora Core. They list audio issues with the 2.6 kernel for that model G3. I can't imagine KDE being too snappy, Firefox would be a dog.

(For reference, Yellow Dog Linux is probably the biggest supplier of PPC LInux and the only supplier that sells Mac Hardware with Linux preloaded.)

But your point remains: it's pretty ironic. I believe it underscores the Apple-IBM relationship, and IBM's interest in moving away from the WinTel desktop computing space.

But your point remains: it's pretty ironic. I believe it underscores the Apple-IBM relationship, and IBM's interest in moving away from the WinTel desktop computing space.

You could put the OSX "front" on to Yellow Dog Linux if you don't like KDE and have a real OS with a lot of really good free, open source programs. And a compiler that's usable.
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

Who says you need OS X for a Mac? http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/ http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

Now with FC 4, looks like there will be support [finally?] for Power/PowerPC systems [like the Mac mini mentioned in the article]. Guess this puts YellowDog's FC 2 based distro in jeopardy.

Has anyone tested the latest development of FC 4 for Power/PowerPC? Judging by the boot.iso in the images directory, it looks like it only works on NewWorld ROM based PowerMac and iMac systems...

On a side note, I've been running Ubuntu [Warty] on an older graphite iMac, and have been impressed by it's ease of setup and use...
But if this article is true, and after some testing of FC 4 for Power/PowerPC, Ubuntu might be replaced with FC 4.

Yellow Dog Linux, based on Fedora Core, also supports Mini Mac already, although they don't support Airport Extreme (yet) either.

(a) Cell was co-designed by IBM which has an interest in selling workstations etc with that chip, Sony didn't it's not their business

There's a lot of vaio developers that will be unhappy to hear that.

Sure, IBM and Sony both like the Cell CPU a lot. However, IBM likes the PPC chip that Apple uses, and yet it still hasn't a) taken over the world, or even b) been put into use by IBM themselves. Why doesn't IBM use Apple workstations across the enterprise? After all, they make the CPU, and for awhile even made the hard drives. Answer: cause it doesn't run the apps they need, and they don't control enough apps themselves to make the switch. The Cell will suffer the same fate outside of it's dedicated use in the PS3.

Would you buy a new Cell workstation for anything besides PS3 development? What would you run on it if you did? Yellow Dog Linux, maybe? If you're enamored of the PPC, are you more likely to develop for the G5, already with a marketshare, or for the non-existant marketshare of the Cell? Maybe--and this is a big maybe--if you needed a CPU that needed high visualization components. But then I guess you'd go with SGI.

Really, in the mature PC economy of today, I don't see how any new CPU architecture can get a foothold; it's a chicken and egg thing with developers and consumers to support the developers. Even Apple, with a legion of crazy fans (of whom I am one) can just barely sustain itself, not insignificantly due to inertia. If Apple has trouble getting developers to code for their CPU, I just don't see who would develop for a VAIO (or ThinkPad) Cell workstation or laptop, until 1 Million of such units are sold; but who buys them until the developers are there? Gamers, as a PS3--and after Sony sells 100 MIllion, releases a browser and office suite?

You mean like this?

Why yes. Thanks for asking. ;P

SuSE also has a PPC distribution, but I get the impression it is geared more towards IBM's PPC based servers. At any rate, here is some information from them on the subject of Mac support. There are still other PPC distros that you can investigate the compatibility issues on your own.

Depending on what you'd like to do with linux, running it on a Mini may or may not be right for you. If you just want to tinker, and familiarize yourself with the platform, I'd say go for it. Because you've got one hell of an OS installed along side it with OS X. If you plan to try to get lots of different devices to work under linux on PPC, you're probably better off with x86 hardware.

To sum up, do your homework before you open your wallet. Ask yourself honestly what the purpose of running linux is, and what trade offs you might be willing to make if necessary. And finally, don't forget the OS X factor. You absolutely can't run that on the x86. And it's a really, really nice OS that can also give you an excellent unix experience, albeit a somewhat different experience than linux.

I want something the size of a mac mini, but I won't pay for a Mac, I like my operating systems Free and Light.

Then get Yellowdog and call it a day (admittedly not sure if it runs on the Mac mini yet but the hardware there is pretty standard so it should not be long if it's not there already).

Why suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous PC design when you can have a really well designed fanless Linux box for less than you can cobble most mini-ITx designs together for?

I did some checking on the YDL iBook and PowerBook support pages and Airport Extreme is not yet supported (which seems to be common for 802.11g on Linux), though standard 802.11b cards are supported.. It also looks like there is no 3D acceleration (but 2D acceleration works) for the Graphics card and putting the computer to sleep only partially works.

So I may have been wrong initially, it looks like there's still some work to be done to make Apple's laptops fully supported on Linux. But you've still got a great Unix OS with Mac OS X if you can't get Linux to run as well as you want.

--
Join the Pyramid - Free Mini Mac

I did some checking on the YDL iBook and PowerBook support pages and Airport Extreme is not yet supported (which seems to be common for 802.11g on Linux), though standard 802.11b cards are supported.. It also looks like there is no 3D acceleration (but 2D acceleration works) for the Graphics card and putting the computer to sleep only partially works.

So I may have been wrong initially, it looks like there's still some work to be done to make Apple's laptops fully supported on Linux. But you've still got a great Unix OS with Mac OS X if you can't get Linux to run as well as you want.

--
Join the Pyramid - Free Mini Mac

I think that Apple makes the best laptops in the world and if you want to put Linux on them you can. Yellow Dog Linux seems to be a good choice if you go this route. Though it appears that Airport Extreme drivers aren't yet working.

But if you've got OS X then what do you need Linux for? Most Linux software can be recompiled for use on Mac OS X.

--
Join the Pyramid - Free Mac Mini

If you want silent, Apple makes a wide range of quiet machines. They run Linux if you're into that sort of thing. I can't hear the PowerBook on my desk even though I'm encoding a video file in the background.

If you're a DIY guy intent on building a desktop system, you could do worse than a pair of Pentium IIIs in a big case with passive cooling and SCSI HDs and loads of RAM for speed (as long as you're not totally CPU-bound, which most people aren't). A friend has that setup and it's nice for day-to-day work, even if I denigrate his OS choice.

If you don't want noise, there are plenty of options -- just not in P4 and Operator land. And not from Dell. Not that there's anything wrong with Dell or P4s or Opertons if that's you're thing, but one must decide on priorities.

One potater, two potater, three potater four. All as healthy and mature as any linux distribution, but it's not like most would ever buy a Mac just to run linux.

Unless this is another of those "just cause I can" things. :-)

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/

There is a Howto on making a linux bootable from an iPod.
That way, you can always reboot any NetBSD machine into linux and access your iPod there. When your done, fall back to NetBSD.

A consistent API (or Framework, as Apple calls it) for development that means most programs act the same way and are easier to write.

I can buy an OS X laptop and everything will work out of the box. The OS will be tightly integrated with the hardware. I can run Linux if I want. Or Windows.

And that laptop will be well-designed, rugged and attractive. I won't have to struggle to get wireless networking, printing or peripherals to work. It sounds to me like some people don't realize how much "of OS X is actually Apple's."

It was written by "them".

Actually it was written by Yellow Dog. Thus the name "Yellowdog Updater, Modified".

Yum was nowhere near apt in functionality but it is getting there.

I disagree. With this release, Yum has surpassed Apt in functionality (mirror lists for example).

Yup, I know. I've been eyeing Terra Soft's 17" Titanium Powerbook G4, but will have to wait till my bank account can accommodate the $2800 price tag.

• 1.33 Ghz G4
• 14" display with 1024x768
• 512 RAM (upgrade)
• 60GB HD
• 802.11G installed
• DVD CD R/W
• ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 with 32MB of RAM.
• 6 hour battery life, but Apple lies so lets call it 4 hrs.
• Firewire, USB 2.0, 10/100 ethernet--both have these, though.
• With the RAM upgrade: $1,399.