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Video Games and ADD
narratorDan writes "Cure your child with videogames!
This is an interesting story about how video games and bio feedback can help children with attention deficit disorder (ADD).
The academics at the Langley Research Centre in Virginia say the treatment helps the children train their brains to
concentrate more and focus their attention." Don't look at me, I have a hard time concentrating on anything longer then a one paragraph Slashdot story *grin*.
I think the problem with video games is not that they contribute to ADD or anything like that but simply that. However, they are inherently an escape mechanism. As a college student, I've seen the same thing over and over again with my friends. Stuff gets too much for them to deal with, so they lock themselves into a big game. I have a friend who did the same thing with Ultima Online. He plays computers 24 hours a day and his grades sure suffered. I guess the games make you feel like you're in control of your life when really you aren't and the more and more you play, the less control you have over your life.
All living organisms are unique. No two are alike. Some are better at some things than others. And intelligence is no different. We don't need movies and music and video games taken away from us just because we aren't cut out to become a PhD. Why not focus on what each kid *is* good at and encourage development of that trait. He may fall asleep in class but could be a great athlete or a strong laborer. There's no shame in that.
Responding to what may be a genuine mental disorder with violence or verbal abuse won't help it I think.
this is a process to weed out those that don't have a genuine mental disorder. And cowing kids to sit down and study will help them learn, it's how all of them do it anyway, some just need a bit more encouragement.
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+&x
Most studies confirm that people only remember 10 percent of what they hear, 30 percent of what they read, but about 80 percent of what they see and do.
Never meant half of the things I said to you. So you know, there's a half that might be true - G. Phillips
I read these posting here on ./ with astonicement..
Certainly, in the States AD(H)D is over diagnozed,
judging by the great number of ADD-kids found in The States, because they don't add up to the numbers in Europe, but that doesn't means ADD isn't real..
I also hear a lot of BS about self-discipline...
It's really saying to a guy with only one leg
and a prothese, that the reason he's not winning the 100 metres run on the Olympics, is because he's not trying hard enough..
Any fscking idea what living a life with ADD is all about, huh?
If you compare a person with ADD to a regular guy,
it's a bit like this: a regular guy multiplexes his inputs from the real world and runs a routine
on every input, an ADD guy hauls all input in asynchronously and all routines run in parallel..
This has a tendancy to get a mess..
The fun part is, when you put a very complex thing
to a regular person and one with ADD, the regular person has trouble multiplexing inputs/things at speed, while an ADD person just accepts the stream
of inputs and is more able to decern the keys to
solving a certain matter.. Also the chaotic nature of it's brains, leads to much more creative sollutions..
(Only when it comes to planning and organizing stuff, it's really like going through a large array without pointers, with just a hunge where
you should lookup things..)
I think gaming is about doing a lot of things at the same time, without a major focus on any of those elements, which leads to good results compared to a regular person and leads to more self-asteem for a person with ADD..
("you see, I'm good for something..")
Yes, I've owned a Nintendo 8bit, 16 bit, N64, Sony PlayStation and when I turned 16, I started with
personal computers (didn't own one myself until I was 18) and maybe that helped me for the better..
Let me give small selection of things I've to bear with:
"You're the brightess guy I know, to bad it doesn't show in your grades"/"why don't you try harder at school, if I can do it, certainly you should be able to accomplish that"
"Mate, if you wouldn't finish school, I would be heavily disapointed in you.."
Well, sorry, besides trading school in electronics, I never finished anything else
because of ADD related symptoms or the trouble
ADD got me into...
Still I am a multi-discipline, creative, social guy (but very straightforward and honest and not all people like that), that knows more about
electronics, data-communication, Industrial Automation, Test&Measurenent, machine construction, computers than many other people
I encounter, but still I am not able to get certain key jobs, because I don't have the papers, simple because ADD is giving me a hard time studing and not because I'm lazy!
The reason why I say this, is because a niece (besides other relatives) of my has ADHD and is treated like a retard and kept a retard, just because she's different and that sucks...
ADD is a lot more, than having an attention span of a gold-fish!!
ADD people are not retards, lazy or weird people
that hate self-discipline, they are just different!
Here's a good link:
http://www.livingwithadd.com
(yeah, I'm to lazy
right now to html this thing, ADD persons still
*can* be lazy..)
Other info is readily available on the internet
if you really want to know something more about ADD, in stead of letting your brain produce noise
on your output leading to your mouth...
The article isn't saying that if everyone played Quake they wouldn't have ADD.
The article is saying that NASA researchers have created a device that monitors patients brainwaves. They've hooked this device to a video game written special for the device. Winning and Losing is at least partially linked to your brainwaves and how much of the ADD-symptom brainwaves you're putting out.
The game itself is probably about as fun as Math Blasters. -Andy
anything longer THAN a one paragraph slashdot story!
I'm not sure how much my personal experiences relate to this subject (I might not have ADD, but it wouldn't surprise me if I've got something else...), but I'd say that video games increase concentration. Unfortunately for me, it only really applies to increased concentration *when playing video games*. So, I may be able to play Starcraft or something for hours on end, with all attention paid to every detail of the game and none to the world around me (food, hygiene, girls showing off their nipple rings (true story, really. ;) ). But when it comes to anything else- classes and writing papers in particular- it can only hold my attention for about five minutes before I have to find something else. Whatever. Just felt I had to comment.
--- this comment is presented in WIDE SCREEN STEREO!!!
Damn straight!
e person using a drug to create balance in their life.
:-)
:-(
I firmly believe that drugs that alter brain chemistry are a tool, and should not carry any stigma for their use. There's never an issue with a diabetic injecting insulin; there should never be an issue with an ADD/hyperactive/depressed/name-your-condition-her
So I won't say anything bad about Ritalin, Prozac or other drugs: properly prescribed, they are a godsend for their users. They take a chemically unbalanced brain and bring it back to balance.
But our medical system -- oy! It's all-too-willing to pop a pill. Your kid is active? Why he must be hyperactive! You're feeling blue? Why you must be clinically depressed! You have trouble sleeping? You must need tamazapan!
GPs are under-educated for the work that they are allowed to do. Brain chemistry is still a huge unknown, and it's becoming apparent that nutrition, lifestyle and emotional attitudes have immense influence on our brains.
But being poorly informed and needing to find a quick fix, doctors prescribe their pill-of-the-week to all and sundry.
Consumers, being even more ignorant and less willing to look for deeper answers, go along with it.
Drugs are a tool, for sure.
But it's a damn shame that we're using hammers to drive screws into place.
There are many children who will see the world in brighter colours and with greater happiness because they're correctly prescribed a drug that alters their brain chemistry. It's great when their problems are nailed by Ritalin.
There are many, many more children who's "hyperactive" behaviour is caused by environmental factors that their parents or doctors are too lazy or stupid to investigate. They're the ones who are condemned to a life of grey because their guardians didn't do their job. It's a shameful loss when they're screwed because they got hammered with Ritalin.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
"go back to the mall that spawned you."
I'll buy the ADD stuff, but I don't know about playing video games to learn to cope with stress. I know more than one person who deals with tough spots in video games by pausing the game to strategize.
Last I heard F-15s don't come with pause buttons.
-- "" - Harpo Marx
Perhaps video game therapy helps children and pilots in different ways.
For a child, the game is attractive enough to avoid distractions away from the task. Irrelevant impulses to squirm around are ignored by the brain which is too busy processing the sights, sounds, and strategies of the game. For once, the kid may be able to follow a task from beginning to end; for example, leading a mouse to the end of a maze. That may be the child's first clue about planning strategies. He learns subtle new skills as well as the rewards of patience and effort.
For a pilot, the game can alienate him from reality. Success and failure become abstract ("Health=0, Insert Token to Continue"). His reasoning is strictly analytical and without fear of consequence. He is able to focus and strategize without feeling pressure. It's a skill that he can carry over into a mission.
Video games may provide a structure capable of teaching these skills, but there is a risk: a player who is detached from reality, too busy winning to think about quitting. If video games trigger a new insight in the mind of the player, then he should quit while he's ahead (or after he's satisfied and had enough fun).
--David M. Moore
Coin-op video games have instant gratification. When I try to get through all D (hex) levels of Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels without using a single continue, that's not instant gratification.
And that's only a side-scroller. Adventure games are even better in this regard.
Games that are based on coin-op genres, like fighing games inparticular, THOSE focus on instant gratification.
But the biggest offender of all is Tetris. Yes, everyone's favorite game, or at least the favorite game of people who "don't like video games," Tetris is more focused on instant decisionmaking, leading to instant gratification, than any other game. I never approached a Tetris game thinking about how I was going to approach level 9... it is the most present-oriented game there is. It works well for short attention spans becaue you don't need to pay attention to any one thing for more time than it takes to place the surrnt piece and move on the the next randomly selected piece. You can't plan ahead because all the pieces are randomly generated. Playing with "show next piece" is generally considered wussing out, even though it is even more intullectually stimulating. This is why I consider Tetris to symbolize the worst, most attention-limited, instant-gratification-oriented aspects of our society.
Suber Mario Brothers, on the other hand, now THERE's a game you have to think about while playing.
I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!
The drugs taking for AD[H]D are (according to the psychiatrist who prescribed them to me) amphetamines, weak kinds of speed. If you have AD[H]D, they will help adjust your brainwaves to normal levels, otherwise they do the opposite. In most people that means they get wired and hyper. In some people they just kind of shut off. If the drugs have a negative effect, then that person is most likely misdiagnosed.
This sounds like the role playing / video game that Ender played at Battle School. Has anyone heard of any studies that used video games to monitor or diagnose personality disorders? This seems like it could have potential....
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin
But do you have ANY idea just how often people are just writen off as being "hyperactive" and given ritalyn as if it were some kind of panacea?
I, personally, know two people from high school who were (mis)diagnosed as having ADD. At my HS we had this dipshit school councilor who thought that a BS in pop psychology and a "Child Development Certificate" (whatever the fsck THAT is) somehow made him qualified to diagnose mental disorders.
He had this arangement with one of the local doctors where he would write a letter testifying to a child's problems in school and that the kid might be hyperactive. The doctor, after a cursory exam of course, would promptly condemn the patient to ritalyn.
This happened to both of the friends I mentioned. Neither one actually suffered from ADD. Wanna know the truth?
One actually turned out to be dyslexic. You can imagine the effect that that had on his learning process; which led to his (mis)diagnosis. It wasn't until high school (after being on ritalyn for a year) that the truth was discovered. Fortunately, the ritalyn didn't mess him up too much.
The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for my other ADD (mis)diagnosed friend. Ritalyn only led to MORE problems for her. She actually became suicidal briefly. It wasn't until after lengthy (and expensive for her family) counciling and examination by a REAL psychiatrist, that it was discovered that she suffered not from ADD, but from Bipolar Disorder. A change to the PROPER medication did wonders for her, but didn't erase the years of torment before ritalyn, and the months of near psychosis ON ritalyn.
So you'll please forgive me if and when I have kids, and they have problems in school; and some fscking pop shrink says "oh, they're just hyperactive, here hop them up on ritalyn"; I tell the asshole to take a flying leap.
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Imagine all the people...
For the most part, Ritalin is prescibed for the good of the parents and teachers, not the child.
and those are parents that both work, and teachers dealing with balooning class sizes. The drugs are yet another shortcut to the American Dream. For me, it's not as much a question of how my friends that use(d) Ritalin acted when they were on it, but how they acted when they tried to stop.
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+&x
I have ADD, not ADHD. I'm about as immobile as any computer user, but my mind is constantly going at 100mph.
Thank God I wasn't diagnosed until I was 26. If my parents knew I had ADD when I was, say, 12, then I'd be the spokesman for the Ritalin Council.
I'm currently taking Wellbutrin SR and it's working wonders.
I don't have a problem concentrating. My problem is that I can only concentrate on one thing at a time. As soon as I move to a new subject, everything I was doing before gets saved to disk, and the cache buffers get cleared.
And, for God sake, don't talk to me when I'm in the middle of something and expect me to remember it in 1 minute. Ain't gonna happen.
Thank God for Palm Pilots!!
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Does it strike anyone else as odd that 3 or so years ago, video games were part of the 'cause' of ADD, especially when the kids were supposed to be studying?
And now it's part of the cure??
Gotta love those scientists...
If it doesn't work as part of the problem, make it part of the solution... (Just like years before the global warming problem, there was the global cooling problem...)
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Check out the Sig field in the "Edit User Preferences" page of Slashdot.
Note the redundancy.
Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
}
hhhmmm My attention span has never been longer than the time it takes me to drink that first beer..
But, seriously, this isn't the first time someone has reported something good coming from video games. The question, as with everything, is: Do the various 'good' thing out way the 'bad' things.
Don't get me wrong, I have wasted many hours in front of my Atari, Nintendo or computer playing everything from Combat to UT. Realistically, I don't think that there is anything wrong with video games in general, but I have met several people who do nothing but sit infront of their (insert favorite gaming device) for days at a time. This can't be healthy in any way.
Hockey - Canada's gift to the world
Hockey - Canada's gift to the world
Yes, I am fairly young, but I'm actually older than most of the guys at my company. Plus, I've been coding fairly regularly since I was 12, so I've got more experience than many of the others combined. Which means I'm somewhat senior. Which means more design documents and less coding... I love writing design docs, but I have lots of trouble finishing them.
I haven't been fired, but after 3 years in the work world, I'm on my 3rd job. All 3 are very different. (FPGA design, embedded software and large project).
By the way, do you have trouble shifting from one task to another, or getting back into something one you have been distracted? I know I sure do. Good luck with your work, hope you can bet back to some real coding soon.
Sometimes. It depends on whether I was in "the zone" before I was distracted, or not!
later,
Bryan
...but wouldn't little doses of heroin work even better? Now that's an incentive to control your brain waves.
Or better yet, combine the two. Give them control when they concentrate and the heroin when they make a kill in the game.
They would be the perfect soldiers. We could build our very own force of Jem'Hadar!
Muahahahaha!
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Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.
My brother is only 17 and sits in a chair 24x7 playing Ultima Online. Other people pay for his accounts and pay him for "items" and other things in the game.
He only takes breaks to eat and pee, and occassionally he'll take a break to play starcraft. It was nearly a vacation for him when he beat Diablo II in two days.
In all seriousness he does have a part time job at Pizza Hut and is taking GED classes.
I'm forcing him to go on a weekend vacation with me just to get him out from in front of the computer.
What do you do for someone like this? He dropped out of high school and is working on getting his GED. He does have some computer skills. I was trying to get him interested in web design but he can't find any place to hire him so it's not of much interest to him.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Well... I've completed forty sessions of neurofeedback and I must say that is works well. The objective of the treatment is not playing games; rather it is to train the thalamus on beta (12-15Hz) waves. Games are just a way to that goal.
:P
I did like pacman quite a bit
Eat my butt
I never learned by being forced to sit down and study; in fact, it discouraged me from it. You don't instill an appreciation of learning by forcing it. Personally, I think a lot of the behavioral problems we see with young children is a result of them being forced to sit quietly for 8 hours a day. Most of what I remember from my pre-college education is the mind numbing boredom.
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I can't wait for their book to be released.
The Langley Research Centre's Research on Attention Deficit Disorder and Hey! Let's go ride our bikes!"
(okay, I copied it from a list of books you'll never see. Mod me down)
I've lost hours at a time, soaked in sweat, chain smoking cigarettes during some recent sessions with Unreal Tournament. I can barely code an hour at a time without stopping for a soda, but these games keep me glued to the set for hours.
This approach sure sounds intuitive to me. This is probably a better alternative than getting the little tikes hooked on speed. They can wait till college to learn that trick.
I seems that any kind of face paced, interaction will demand increased attention. I'm surprised it's taken as long to use video games like this. The combination of biofeedback seems to be the real trick for the subjects. If the carrot works, and is fun at the same time, all the better.
Roleplaying, on the other hand, encourages communication, teamplay, and imagination, while demanding a more robust attention span.
Scott Kurtz of PVP Online wrote a good long rant about this one.
Oh, and they also encourage devil worship. Right. I forgot.
***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***
***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***
I've seent his study profiled before. It was actually really kinda funny. . .They showed a kid glued to the tube for hours, and then later asked the kid if video games made him concentrate better. . .I thought his head would fall off he was nodding so hard.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced of the medicinal value of video games. What'll be next? Money as a cure for depression?
-s
- - - - - - - -
Don't worry, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep in a giant blender.
Ok, I'm not a doctor, and I have very little understanding of ADD, but this seems odd to me. As far as I can tell the article pretty much says that ADD can be effectively treated by prolonged concentration. It sounds like the viedeo games (and associated feedback) are just a means to encourage that concentration, and are fairly arbitrarily chosen. That makes me really wonder about the true nature of ADD. If it were a serious phsiological problem I wouldn't think that it could be treated quite so well with exercises in disciplined thinking.
If there's a Slashdotter who could throw some light on the nature of ADD and it's other forms of treatment it would be much appreciated. I did a little bit of reading over at www.add.org but it looks like there's a lot of data to sift through before anything even starts to become clear.
--
Behold the Power of Cheese!
I've been playing video games all my life. I started my age old love affair with the Atari 2600 (which by the way had bio feed back). The sensation of getting hit by an older brother for beating him down at Combat or that of a full bladder from playing Pit Fall Harry for 3 hours straight. I've since moved on to such inspired weekend killers like Star Craft and Unreal Tournament and the ONLY attention focusing they've helped me with is focusing on the pretty colors on my monitor for hours on end. I think things like video games and information on demand have destroyed my attentions span. I make ADD look like a walk in the park. I truly can't focus on reading or homework like I used to. Please tell me I'm not alone in downloading great works of literature that are required reading for some class and then having my computer summarize 400 pages in to 40 the night before a quiz. I have more thoughts on the subject but I don't think I want to proof read anything longer than a paragraph.
--Let's hack root on 127.0.0.1 --panZ
Playing UO 24/7 is typical ADD.
ADD is an attention disorder. Sometimes you hyperfocus, sometimes you have no attention whatsoever. If you are doing what you like and what you think is important, you can get into this amazing hyperfocus state. Man, it's awesome. Learn to turn it on when you want and you can take on the world.
The trick is to hyperfocus on things that are important. Get addicted to stuff like exercise rather than UO.
Cocaine is supposedly a very effective medication for ADD.
:)
Unfortunately, the side effects are a little nasty.
Am I the only one that finds Diablo II boring?
I have ADD, and can usually sit at video games for hours, but not D2. If I had to actually think or if it actually required a little bit of reaction time, maybe I'd find it a little less boring...
They're missing something here. I have ADD too and it has actually been a benefit to my life. The brain has a way of compensating for its limitations. In the ADD brain, the compensation is to be hyperactive. A byproduct of this is hypercreativity. I would much rather be hypercreative with a hyper-amount of energy than someone who plods along day after day doing the same thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it simply does not appeal to me.
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*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
25: ten.knilrevlis@wkcuhc
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
They had a kid sitting in a lazyboy chair, w/ a pair of speakers (small ones) on his left and right. He was playing Tony Hawk on a PSX-- the interesting thing was he was wearing a skull cap, and the PSX joypad was custom wired into a PC w/ a 25 pin multi-colored ribbon cable. Then they watched the reports from the skull cap on a bunch of monitors showing graphs... all under Windows. Interesting sight on the NASA Channel here on cox cable.
da w00t.
da w00t. mtfnpy?
FWIW when I was 24, I read a book called A nswers to Distraction, and it profoundly affected me. For years I had struggled with this inability for me to take the things I could visualize in my head (a drawing, a program, a story, whatever) and make my hands produce it. This, combined with a knack for going full steam ahead with projects and constantly abandoning them and developing little to no patience for my 2 year-old, ended up bringing on major bouts of depression to boot.
Then, after reading letters from adults with ADD, all of a sudden things really clicked for me, and I felt like I could finally beat this thing that had frustrated me since I was kid. Long story short, I take meds (non-Ritalin) every day and I see my now 8 year-old son starting to display some of the same traits that I had for so long. Seeing this article gives me hope that I can help my son control his ADD and take the blessings it gives and fight down the bad parts of it WITHOUT BEING MEDICATED.
I hate the fact that I take these damn pills every day, but I've tried going off them and I just don't have the coping skills I need, my son now will have the option of being himself and making all this work for him instead of against him.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
Question the morality of their actions? Most people have been indoctrinated to believe that morality is out-moded. "Ethics" is the proper term, and "Situational Ethics" is the "proper" application of ethics.
In other words: It's okay for the United States to bomb Iraq because Sadam Hussien is Evil (it has nothing to do with oil... please pay no attention to the thousands of attrocities commited by non-oil producing nations.)
I spent eight years in the military myself (yes, I got out with an Honorable Discharge.) As a disabled veteran, I have one thing to say about "wars" like Desert Storm: WE HAD NO BUSINESS THERE.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
Isn't it amazing how things that supposedly kill your brain can help it?
Would you turn down the money if you were offered it? Of course not, don't be stupid.
:( )
If I was an athlete (and I am), this is my thought process:
1) I like sports
2) I like money
These sports generate revenue from ticket sales, concessions, and most importantly, tv contracts. If you don't like the higher salaries, vote with your wallet and stop watching and going to games.
It's no sweat off my back that athletes make that much $, because the owners would be getting it if they didn't. And more importantly, who cares? If you want to spend that much $ to go to a game, don't whine when you see players and owners being paid with your cash. You are being entertained (by some teams at least.. my Steelers suck this year
BilldaCat
The shoot'em-up attribute of the game actually detracts from its true quality. Best way to play with it is using the all-weapons cheat so you concentrate on solving the puzzles.
BTW, how the %@&*# do I get to the other side of the stage in the Opera House level????? How do I avoid becoming salami on the ventilator shaft???? ;-P
Not to mention the corporate behemoths shoving ritalin down kids' throats. Another case of bad science (asking teachers and guidance counselors to diagnose psychiatric conditions) producing good profits for the drugcos.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
I'll let a doctor explain it, as I lack both the inclination and the expertise to do so with authority.
-excerpt from an article in the Princeton Packet, by the clinical director of the Princeton ADD center.
Without the pad, it's not Dance Dance Revolution, it's Listen
SS is really for older children. I don't think any TV is designed for 8 month olds. Teletubbies is designed for 1 - 2 year olds.
Another problem with SS is that it is a whole hour. This is probably too much TV in one go for an infant.
My two year old will play while her older brother watches Sesame Street, then she comes over and watches Elmo's World, which is about 10 minutes at the end, and definitely more appropriate for toddlers.
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E_NOSIG
I just scrolled down from this and noticed the related story about Lara Croft Don't suppose there's a connection...
..uh.. endowments. I hope it's not another bomb.
Still, they should be looking better if that Tomb Raider movie comes out and scores big as Lara's
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Most interactive audio/visual activities increase concentration. That's why pilots don't just read about how to fly a plane, they go into flight simulators.
What's that saying about you tell me, I remember 10%, you show me, I remember 30%, etc?
love,
br4dh4x0r
So how do they act? Are there withdrawal symptoms? Can you tell us some more about it? Is the brain permanently blunted after taking them for a long time?
FJ!!
Maybe, but it's definately not for people with very short attention spans.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
...destroy your TV. Ever notice that a lot of people get edgy and can't concentrate 25 minutes and 50 minutes into a project? Gee. I wonder why THAT is.
Maybe if parents can point to other treatments, they wouldn't be as susceptible to strong-arming by teachers who think that the slightest hint of "hyperactivity" (I think we used to call this "fun") is something they shouldn't have to deal with.
Besides, it'd be great to see teachers give homework assignments like "2 hours of Smash Bro.'s."
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Okay, the "symptoms" that characterize Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, have a high correlation with the "symptoms" of giftedness. So, yes, treating it as simply a problem to be solved is probably not the best strategy.
On the other hand, the knee jerk "Don't treat creativity/individuality as a disease" response is just as wrong in the other direction. When I am medicated for my ADD (admittedly in conjunction with major depression), I am more productive and creative, because I'm actually able to follow through on what I think of.
-- I'm not evil, I'm
I have mild ADD, and I have seen hyperactivity in children TRIGGERED by video games and the like. True, maybe video games help develop prediction/goal seeking/concentration on the task at hand. But on the flipside, however, they detach you from what's really going on.
Just look at a flock of 8-9 year old boys and you'll see what I mean.
It's too sad that we have to rely on technology for things that are developed naturally in a good environment.
Not to say I haven't duct-taped a runt or two to the tele with his n64 while babysitting...
It's just the reenactment that fills the hyperactivity =)
Which is prob. why the parents call me in the first place.
http://siokaos.org/
Hyperfocusing is one of the definite upsides to ADD. It's a shame that it very rarely applies to 'useful' things -- only things *we* deem worthwhile (hence coding, gaming, reading and not studying, etc).
;-)
The other upside is all the creative energy
the real shiftaling has user number 5134
the real shiftaling has user number 5134
Karma: -43 and DROPPING!!!
But... ADD and ADHD (as I am sure that you know this) are different things. ADHD are those childern that are hyperactive and have ADD. I assume that those with ADD do not have this problem.
I know from my own experience, I played video games... but I guess not enough to help my ADD... or... maybe it is better than what it could have been had I not played.
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
::Not a Flame::
Am I the only person who thinks that ADD and the like are nothing more than stupid excuses? Every time there are some people who have problems doing something like paying attention or being around other people, or whatever a Disorder or Disease is created for the people who have that problem. So you have problems paying attention? Deal with it. So you have problems being around people? Deal with it.
Why now, in the 20th/21st century, has all of this gotten so out of hand? We create these things like ADD and feed our children drugs so they can feel better? Ritalin and other drugs were created along with the "Disorders" they are supposed to alleviate so the Drug Companies can make more money selling us another product we don't need.
Life Sucks, Get a Fucking Helmet.
Then again, maybe I'm just overreacting.
I wouldn't hang out with a guy I knew when he was on Ritalin. He just wasn't the same. It was like it forced him to be oversensitive about everything.
The would have said, "What's ADD?" because nobody had it back then. Sure, there were one or two "hyper" kids in school, but nowhere near 5%.
t
I seem to remember one of my college professors talking about a study she had read, where the average IQ of the u.s. or the world or something had gone up a few points. It seems people believed that this was partially due to video games, and this wasn't just the gamers and the game companies who thought this. But other people as well :)
"Please, how about a little less love and a little more common decency?" - Kurt Vonnegut jr.
Wow. First we hear alcohol drops your cholesterol. Then we get the Atkins diet, where you're supposed live on steak and chocolate to cure obesity. Now we get this, where video games cure your ADD. When do we get to the part where partying improves your grades, dozing improves your driving, and lying makes you popular?
My brother doesn't have ADD, but is very very irritated if you mess with him or confront him while he's playing his games.
I used to consider myself a hard core gamer playing 2-5 hours a night 6/7 nights a week back in my day, but I also was outside and hanging out with friends the rest of the time.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
So, now we are supposed to believe that video games can both cure a child's Attention Deficit Disorder AND turn them into Uzi-toting terrorist mass-murderers?
...I guess parent's just can't win.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
As soon as someone comes out with scientific proof of something, you may as well plan for them reversing the decision down the line.... For years, we have had scares over beef, eggs, nutrasweet, alcohol, butter, greenhouse gases, the rising temperatures, playing video games, swimming within an hour of eating etc...All of which have been disproved to some degree or other. Its the same with new technology, like the processors made out of 2 single molecules, or a slugs fart or whatever. 'Don't expect these devices anytime soon'...Sorry, but I was waiting for Satan himself to go buy some ice skates before I see those devices. I'm off to go fly my kite near some power lines while sucking some sticks of butter followed by a nice evening of saying 'bloody mary' 3 times in the mirror constantly.
With a true ADD kid this makes it worse.
Saying "study because you have to" is going to cause that ADD kid to rebel.
They need to understand why they should be studying, to internalize it.
When they get to the stage where they're asking for your help to remind them that they're wandering, you're set....
Computer Roleplaying Games, and Tabletop Roleplaying Games are different beasts entirely. Actual roleplaying (i.e. Playing a Role) is useful and interesting in ways that cannot currently be imitated on a computer.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
Would someone care to share with me here how someone is diagnosed with /ADH?D/? And what the evidence of this "disease" is? And how that differs from just "being a kid"?
Everyone nowadays just accepts that some kids have this disease and that the cure for this disease is the drug called ritalin. Why is it that all-of-a-sudden millions of kids need to be drugged where that has never happened before in history? How did this "epidemic" come washing over us requiring parents to drug their children with mind-altering chemicals?
I think it has much more to do with parents not wanting to raise their kids. They would rather do it with drugs and day care. The medical industry, smelling money, produces a diagnosis for a fake illness which demands treatment. The drug industry, smelling money, complies, producing the mind-altering drug ritalin. And the government, who prefers stupid, drugged citizens, stays mum about the whole subject.
Are you drugging your kid?
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Consider this: What if the distraction you feel is completely normal, but you have been told all your life that this distraction is due to "ADD" and needs to be "treated"? So you were told from childhood up that you can't pay attention and need to be drugged, and that the drugged state is normal, while the undrugged state is bad. Meaning, what if this ADD thing is completely made up, and the "symptoms" you feel are a psychological issue that has been created by people telling you and convincing you that you are "hyperactive" and need to be drugged?
Honestly, I feel distracted all the time. But I learned to cope with it as lots of people do. I think it's completely normal for a kid to feel distracted -- they've got short attention spans for Christ's sake!
You may quite possibly be a victim of the ADD myth. I hope you're not going to drug your son.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
It's simple, really. The responsibility of raising kids is the PARENT'S. We've tried to pawn it off on day care centers. We've tried to pawn it off on the schools. We've tried to pawn it off on TV. Music. Movies. Government. Anything except ourselves.
Here's the story folks; we can't suddenly plot Johnny down in front of the nintendo and pat ourselves on the back saying "well, he's learning to focus." This is such bullshit. I'm sorry to point out the obvious here, but if you want a "normal" kid, you've got to participate in their lives, and possibly rethink your definition of "normal". In this respect, I've gotta agree with the above post.
Ok, offtopic rant time! (yay)
I'm sick and tired of reading all these articles about saving the children from the evils of the world, and having every last one be a steaming pile of shit. Come on. "Write your congressman, save the children from Ozzy Osbourne!" "Support library filtering software, save the children from porn!" "Support drug prison terms, save the children from evil plants!"
People, it's a very simple idea you have to grasp: a parent should be the biggest influence in a child's life. End of story. If you're concerned about music/drugs/porn/crime/gangs/whatever, you've not talked to your kids enough. Same thing with this ADD stuff; if your child has a genuine medical condition, spend enough time with them to notice it, and get it treated. If your child is just crying out for attention (my theory on the majority of ADD cases), it's YOUR FAULT. How dare parents today hand their kids off to day care centers and schools, and sign happily on the line when some overstressed undertrained teacher says "ridalin would help". This article is just MORE fuel on the fire; one more parent is gonna buy his kid a nintendo, and say "well, they're learning... now I can work an hour later!". People are pawning their kids upbringing off on anything EXCEPT themselves. This just provides one MORE thing for 'em to use.
Here's the basics folks: If you don't want your child to act out, teach them respect. If you don't want your child to commit crimes, teach them why it's wrong. If you don't want them smoking pot, teach them it's dangerous. If you don't want them having sex early, teach them it's wrong. Don't sit your kids in front of a nintendo to learn to focus, and then complain that video games are sending the wrong messages. Don't sit them in front of the TV to learn moral values and then complain that TVs are immoral. Raise your own damn kids. Don't expect me, the government, the schools or the media to do it for you.
If my parents would have listened to counselors/teachers, I'd have been in the learning disabled program by 3rd grade. My mother got a letter suggesting that I be placed in that program, and went to the principal insisting I be IQ tested. She still breaks out the "your son has special needs; he's blessed with special talents" letter now and then. And the "your son has special needs; he's not showing satisfactory progress" one that had preceeded it. Which one do you want for YOUR kids?
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Just lurking, thanks!
I have Asperger's Syndrome (many of the symptoms are the same as ADD), and DOOM has helped me to relax, and to let some stress out! I love the shotgun! Forget the ritalin, gimme a Remington 22!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
>The best way to do that is to lower their social status until they can't get laid.
Who gets laid more often? A professional athelete, A construction worker, or a bookworm?
>How do you ever expect us to improve the human race if we don't breed out the most damaging weaknesses?
Ahh, but the human race's most damaging weakness is to be totally helpless. Assuming you have no major diseases, if you don't do any labour, or aren't athletic, or simply don't work out, you are likely a good candidate for a heart attack. Soon.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
http://slashdot.org/articles/99/10/13/1054225.shtm l
Caffeine helps ADHD, Videogames help ADHD... Damn, was my mother ever wrong...
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
The article is light on details. Anyone see this in any scientific journal recently? I wonder what it would take to replicate the experiment (on a budget) ? How sophisticated an EEG would it take? How much was done in hardware & software? That kinda stuff. I'd sacrifice an hour or two a day playing video games if it would improve my concentration. There's a market for this!
---Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
I wonder what it means, though, when I can't focus on a video game long enough to play it all the way through?
It is the only 'medical condition' for which there is no lab test of any kind.
It's diagnosis is an arbitrary and subjective judgement. [Of course, when someone is clearly psychotic, this is not overly hard, but the new 'soft' mental illnesses that have become such a striking feature of the mental health system are all about defining as ill people who are aware of reality and the world around them, but are deemed to not feel sufficiently happy or calm about their situation in life]
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man sig
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the pen is mightier then the sword. the sword is mightier then the court. the court is mightier then the pen.
I never learned by being forced to sit down and study; in fact, it discouraged me from it.
you're reading in too far about what I said. It's not about being quiet for 8 hours, but doing so when you need to. Mainly my point was about instilling a bit of discipline in wild children. This isn't the answer for severely disturbed children, but for IMHO 90% of the kids who get 1 hour ADD pronouncements.
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+&x
Hmm... Ender's Game, anyone?
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
}
ADD is a bogus excuse for parents that don't/won't discipline their children. They claim their children have ADD so that they don't have to take any responsibility for being negligent in their children's discipline. Many, perhaps millions, think that if they give their children drugs it will cure ADD. The only thing that children need is love and discipline. You can't cure a non-existent disease. The funny thing is the epitome of this "supposed" ADD can be summed up in episode 404 of South Park. I'm not saying that children must be beaten to behave. I'm saying give your children instructions and make sure they follow them.
I have also heard that these conditions can also be linked to allergens. Unfortunately, I don't have any references to point at, but I remember both sugar and milk as potential candidates. I know that with my son, sugar has an instantaneous negative effect on him which I imagine is quite similar to the symptoms of ADD and ADHD: sudden boost in energy, very low tolerance for things he is not interested in, and extremely quick temper.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
true and not.
I also took (and still take) dexidrine although I have needed it less as I have grow older (I honestly cant remeber the last time I took any).
I have found that it has fewer side effects than ritalin and is by far a superior treatment if it works for you (as I understand it, it wont work for all people). I do, however, know people who use it for a buzz. so its not realy a solution to that problem.
However, one of the reasons that many parents try to get there kids diagnosed is for extra time on tests (including the SAT's). Personaly I find this reprehensible(sp?) as it takes away from the attention that should be given to kids with this problem
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
I set my threshold to +2 while browsing Slashdot comments. {grin}
I know the trolls are still there screaming but I don't have to deal with them as much. Sadly I'll miss some good comments too, but them's the breaks. Of course the jury is still out as to whether or not all of the calmness advantage is eliminated when I moderate browsing at -1 ...
WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
I am quite civilized, and I should be brought a beer immediately. -- Bruce Sterling
We all know AD&D is just a tool of Satan. ;-) So just go back to playing Pokemon like a good prole and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Do they give them electroshock each time the kid looks away from the monitor? :>
J.
The idea that video games might help with ADD/ADHD is interesting, and entirely possible, as ADD people have enormous problems with prioritizing (rather an important trait, when you're being shot at by plasma-cannon-wielding maniacs from outer space!). They're also invariably untidy. (If you have an untidy car or room, you're probably ADD, bipolar, HFA, or Random Access.)
IMHO, there is one other important factor. Do ADD people REALLY WANT to be "normal"? Let's face it. "Normal" people buy Windows, act like jerks, rip off each other, and destroy their brains and bodies.
Personally, I'd say sod normality, and act like a geek. Geeks have better long-term survivability, a better overall attitude, and aren't so concerned with irrelevent differences such as age, gender, race, species, or braincell mapping.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
"not enough to help ur add"
funny, you seem to think that developing these skills with a piece of technology makes it pertain to the real world, eh?
go play some quake. that'll calm you right down
sorry iused ADD and ADHD synon. but many attributes of the skills lost and environment pertain to both
http://siokaos.org/
Doesn't this make you think of it?
Little kid, some kind of mental problem, really good at video games...
Now we need Nintendo of America to sponsor a big contest for all the ADD kids out there - the winner gets a copy of Super Mario 3! Or a poster of Natalie Portman, naked, petrified, etc...
In post-9/11 America, the CIA interrogates YOU!
The BEST solution to ADD and ADHD is to get your child to sit 12 hours (okay, they can eat) infront of a monitor writing and debugging a their own video game w/ OpenGL. Or let them port the Quake II software rendering engine into an operating system like HURD or *BSD. After the port's done, your child will be cured of any signs of ADD and ADHD.
If they are not cured, publish the game and you'll have enough money to hire a professional.
When they say in some schools that up to 40% of the children use Ritalin they don't take into account that many parents try and get there kids on it so that they can take the drug themselves and get a buz.
The fix for this was a drug called Dexadrin or some thing like that. Thats what I was using my first and second years of high school. The advantage is that Dexadrin does not have to be taken twice a day. Just once in the and your all set. And you can't get a buz off of it.
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If my facts are wrong then tell me. I don't mind.
Hey! This is the United States of America!
The games aren't the cure, they are just the figurative carrot-on-a-stick.
If the kid concentrates and his brainwaves act "normal" his control pad works better.
Thwapp!
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Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.
They sit 40 hours a week in front of a terminal surfing slashdot and getting paid but everyone is okay with this!
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I think you're totally wrong. It's not about a kid "rebeling". It's about pounding a strong will into shape. Sometimes the logic of a wooden paddle is great at "internalizing the need to study."
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When they get to the stage where they're asking for your help to remind them that they're wandering
This is when they've internalized your tactic and are offering a counter-tactic. Remember, ADD kids are great at playing games.
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+&x
I the recent South Park episode (you remember, the one with Timmy and the Lords of the Underworld) said all that needs to be said regarding ritalin.
kugano
What a scam, what a shame.
Edith Keeler Must Die
FF7-8 are in the same category of Parasite Eve - (barely) interactive movie. Square has made a few -real- rps's tho. Take Xenogears for example. Or anything on the SNES.
And I looked, and behold, the pokemon all spontaneously combusted.
It's not that I want to be cured so much as I would like to be able to do things that others do with ease - watch a tv show all the way through without getting the urge to do something else, maybe read just one book at a time instead of starting 5 or 6, then maybe finishing them later - I could go on. My brother (who has it worse than me) loves baseball, but can't sit still long enough to watch an entire game on tv.
G0del
Novels are another great way to focus. Once you can read quickly, a novel moves so much faster than those boring TV shows. I guess I'm lucky, because most ADD people have trouble concentrating enough to read properly.
Not me. It's been more of my experience that when it's something that you really like, it steals your attention more than anything else. If I read a good book, then my mind will tend to go back and be distracted by the memory of the book more than anything else.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Does someone have a link to the zen video game that appeared here a while back... the one where two opponents faced each other hooked up to biofeedback, and the ball moved towards the one who was the "least relaxed." That's the key, video games where you kill by relaxation...
First off, Attention Deficit Disorder is a misleading name for this condition. People with ADD ocillate wildly between periods of intense concentration, and periods of intense distractibility. (Yes, everyone does this, but more so in people with ADD.) The hyperactivity bit is a variant of ADD known as ADHD (Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.) It's a combination of ADD and hyperactivity.
So the fact that kids with ADD or ADHD can calmly sit and play video games is not a cure by any means. The kids are in a hyperfocus period. This is pretty common, since when presented with (depending on the type of ADD) something new, different and/or high-stimulation, most ADD'ers will go into hyperfocus mode.
That said, the interesting part of the article is that they are working with the ADD to provide biofeedback therapy. See, that's important for ADD -- it's not curable, so any treatment has to work with the ADD. Most treatments for ADD work initially because the treatment itself is novel, and thus brings on a state of hyperfocus. They later fail because soon it's not new anymore. (This is why ADD is difficult to test for -- the novelty of the tests temporarily cure the distractiblity.) This one, however, can probably remain novel for the 40 sessions needed to perform the treatment.
More therapies like this would be great. ADD has some tremendous advantages, (symptoms of genius and creativity are the same as the symptoms of ADD - both Einstein and Mozart may have had it, and I think many geeks may have it too) so curing ADD would be a major detriment. But some people with extreme cases of ADD are so distractable (or they hyperfocus at bad times) that it's difficult for them to function in society. Therapies like this could probably lessen the annoying bits of ADD, but maintain the beneficial parts.
For more info on ADD, read "Driven to Distraction". Don't remember the authors, but they're 2 pyschologists who have ADD themselves, so it's a great perspective.
I can spell. I just can't type.
You are fortunate. My foster son has never been
able to sit still long enough to learn to read.
Befor he came into my life, he was concidered a
discipline problem so the Meas Arizona Unified
School system placed him in a "warehouse" school.
TV bores him, most video games bore him if they
are too simple. If they are difficult, then they
frustrate him. Of course he does hyperfocus on
both tv and video games sometimes.
If only he could read like you. I have enough books
to keep him busy for years, even at a book a day
rate. When I was in school thats what I use to
do, read a book a day. It was one of the few things
I could focus on besides math and programing. As
far as your last paragraph, don't worry. It will
come and go. I have been coding for a looong time.
If you are anything like me ( hyperfast reading etc.)
you will have days that non-productive because of
the great difficulty in staying focused, but you
probably have days where you can crank out more
good code then anyone else. I have found that when
I am able to focus ( about 2 days out of five), I
do as much work as my team mates do in a week. The
problem is often I start to really focus in the
afternoon. By the time I snap out of it, it can
be quite late. That is alright unless your a single
parent of an ADD teenager who needs you home at
a reasonable time!
I do not know how ADD/ADHD is diagnosed nowadays. For me, in the years before they came up with a name for it, I went through a lot of physical exams, intelligence tests, psychiatric evaluation and EEGs. It was baffling; I was physically sound, at least moderately sane, and I had a high IQ according to the tests. Eventually, research began to show that certain children showed marked attentional problems with predictable symptoms, and later research suggested that it didn't always go away at puberty. It wasn't that the disorder didn't exist before the last few decades, it was misdiagnosed as various other things: chronic discipline problems, Tourette's syndrome, low intelligence, et cetera. Most "new" afflictions are just pre-existing but unrecognized conditions.
Is Ritalin a cure? No; it is a treatment, and it has its drawbacks. As I said, people with ADD/ADHD do not get the classic stimulant buzz from Ritalin, but we still get the side effects: loss of appetite, stomach complaints, high blood pressure, nervousness, et cetera. Each dose only lasts three hours, too.
Does ADD/ADHD exist? Definitely. Is is overdiagnosed? Probably. I think fewer people have it than are being treated for it. I blame the HMO system. A kid has attention problems, so you put them on speed. Someone with ADD will not get a buzz off of Ritalin, but someone without it will feel like they've had a half-dozen cups of coffee. The doctor asks the wired kid if they're doing better, and of course they say that they feel more productive than ever. The kid is rushed out of the office. Case closed.
In short, there really is such a thing as ADD/ADHD; people with it respond well to Ritalin, and ADD/ADHD is very likely overdiagnosed. But it is real. If I could let you spend a few hours in my brain, you'd believe it.
So you advocate for sporting venues to just "turn over" profits to education as opposed to spreading the wealth accross the people who drive the profit? maybe if education was privatized you would see teachers salaries go up on its own... maybe if teaching wasn't the "cop out" degree at most universities the quality would go up.. dont blame athelets for our stupid government and universities putting actual education last on the list of priorities.. I'd pay $200 to see drew bledsoe in the Super Bowl before I'd give 95% of the teachers I've had in the past $1.
YouTube & Google Video -> podcast http://castcluster.blogspot.com/
"Work is soooo stressful, where did I put my railgun? ...."
confused, lost, and unhappy. Kind of a blank stare, a frown, and a general depression. You could just tell they were very uncomfortable. The two that I'm thinking of both said that they had tried to stop taking it, but had been on it for a number of years and the effect it had on them had become "normal". Both were in the 18-24 demographic when I knew them.
There is (now third hand) anecdotal evidence of young children becoming suicidal after ceasing treatment. And yes, this is a scare tactic as blatant as thetruth.com commercials.
As much as I enjoy a good chemical brain bath from time to time, I draw the line at giving mind-altering drugs to pre-adolescents ESPECIALLY with the expressed desire of getting them to sit down and shut up.
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Apparently it's hard for even that.. does slashdot fall there too? :)
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
WHOA! thats a definite fallacy. An integral part of ADD is the ability to 'hyperfocus' much more than an 'ordinary' person. This happens with video games, reading, coding etc.
ADD is not stupidity, it means, an inability to focus, not a lack of intelligence. You might conclude that there's a lack of intelligence, because you might see an ADD person not finish a task, or get wrong answers, because they're distracted during the answering process (and sometimes distracted during the learning process, too!)
Now, the egalitarian "some folks are good at some somethings, and some better at other things" is fine and well, but if you can help a child become good at something that's challenging, rather than only focus solely on what the child seems to be inclined towards, well, that's a GoodThing TM.
FACT: Children learn differently, but all children can be taught. If we don't make the effort to teach them, and their grade sheet shows an F, then isn't it really the teachers who've failed?
This post above shouldn't have been interesting, it was FlameBait.
A host is a host from coast to coast
but no one uses a host that's close
As pointed out previously, video games might help problem solving, hand-eye, etc. but they promote short attention spans by reinforcing instant gratification
That's bull. I've been playing video games since Atari, and I don't have any kind of problem with a short attent
But, I do see a problem with this: Children with ADD (as you know) do have a tendency to drift from doing what they are actually working on. Especially to things that do not pose a challenge to them.
When I would come home from grade school, I would plop myself in front of the video game consol and not look up for hours on end. Legos had the same effect on me as well where I would create and destroy worlds all before dinner.
Then, came the time to do home work. Home work? What's that? There was more interesting worlds to explore within the world of building blocks and little people.
Now, I have read in places and magazines where there had been the children that had ADD seem to have been "cured". When, in fact, the children with ADD had become adults with ADD. There is also an organization called CHADD that deals with Children and adults with ADD.
Also, schools who would have "problem children" and usually quick to diagnose these children, just because they fit into a certain category of symptoms. The children are given a label and put on drugs without a thorough diagnosis.
Now, thru CHADD, and other organizations, adults who are diagnosed with ADD seem to have found a nitch in where they belong in today's job market.
Those jobs do include:
The key to assisting these children is not to drug them out or to set them in front of a television or video game. Give the children something constructive to do. I think that due to my parents' work, I turned out alright.
kernal32.exe has corrupted and turned into popcorn32.exe
I got stuck on Ritalin Just like every other kid in the free world now days. I spent more time telling people no I would not sell it and guarding it then I did studying. There was a kid in my school that went to a variation or an early study of this application. The computer games he played were not Quake and Ultima Online style but very specific attention requiring sessions. They built up the time and he was able to stop taking ritalin (which I think is a waste anyway I only take it if I have to write a proposal or specs) According to him and talking to people that knew him before and after this stuff worked great. Oh well Just my waste of bandwidth posting.
I am 31337 or something.
I was raised by the TV! Are you threatenning my daddy?
-Ben
P.S. Is it bad for my 8 month old baby to be watching sesame street?
-1 sad
Well, duh! Nothing makes me sit still and concentrate like trying to complete Act 3 and 4. I'm so focused I forget to eat and sleep.
Man, I hate those fscking flayer midgets.
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My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth. Who wrote yours?
I think this pretty much proves ADD doesn't exist in these kids. If a child can maintain their attention on a video game but not in a classroom, this isn't a disorder, this is simple boredom and an idicator that something in the "traditional" classroom environment isn't working. Instead of doping kids up because we want them to behave like dull adults, we should be rewarding them for being energetic and enthused while working with them to channel that energy into a purpose. Kids are hyper, kids have short attention spans. If they're entertained by something, they will not have any problem maintaining attention.
I have never doubted the existence of ADD, in fact I've known a few poster children.
Growing up, one of my closest friends was insanely hyper, but thats all he was. He could focus like you wouldn't believe, he was just running on a permanent sugar high. Unfortunately, his mommy and daddy couldn't deal with his energy level. Next thing you know he's taking Ritalin, and suddenly he's a complete dud. No sense of humor, no excitement, he wasn't a kid anymore, he was a little adult at the age of 13. But boy were his parents happy. The problem is the rampant misdiagnosis and abuse by parents looking for more manageable children without all that icky parenting stuff.
Sorry, about the rant.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
Hey, if pinball worked for a deaf, dumb, and blind kid, I'm sure a little N64 can cure ADD.
Pokrefke
aka - The Whiny Complainer
video games ... promote short attention spans.... Roleplaying, on the other hand... demanding a more robust attention span.
What about activities such as Final Fantasy VII that are both roleplaying and video games?
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Actually, its in Hampton, VA which is near Virginia Beach. I got the same vibe when I saw 'Langley', 'Virginia' and 'Government Research' all in the same article.
You can learn more about the research center through this nifty Shockwave-based Interface.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
Hmmm. I once spent three hours riding with a woman who had a child diagnosed with ADHD (H is for Hyperactivity - this is more extreme than ADD). She and her child tried many things but she really wanted to avoid drugs. Eventually, she did what should be obvious to any parent who loves their children and actually spends time trying to help them be real human beings (instead of vidiots): she started to look at his attention deficit and his hyperactivity as a _good_ thing. She just basically called them something different: intense curiosity and enormous energy. She and her child talked a lot about things and eventually they came up with a really simple solution for the times when his "disability" became difficult for others around him: he would run around the block as many times as it took to burn off some of that energy. Aparently this worked marvels. His school work improved etc. etc. <miracle story continues...>.
So what's the point? Well, as other posters are sure to mention this seems to me to be another case of parents and society prefering technological solutions to solutions based on responsibility. I have recently been reading a book called How To Multiply Your Baby's Intelligence which basically talks about how the nature vs. nurture issue is a moot point until we actually figure out how to take full advantage of the nuture side of the equation. The book goes on to describe so-called miraculous accomplishments by brain injured children as well as normal children such as: reading, high speed math, learning multiple languages, etc. all before the age of 3!!! I have used some of the techniques with my own son who is now 26 months old. He was able to read about 40 words at age 14 months. We (my wife and I) dropped the ball and didn't continue with his learning up till now. Hopefully we are not to late.
Ever since I was a child, I have always felt that adults seriously underestimate the abilities of children. I am concerned that our diagnoses such as ADD and ADHD are really a reflection of our impatience and intollerance of children's natural abilities.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
Ever notice that "hyperactive" kids will stare at a screen non-stop for hours? Maybe they'll draw for hours; or read SF, or code. It is only when you point them at a textbook that they have an attention defficit.
ADD people can't pay attention to boring stuff. It's a matter of stimulus level and skill training. Games are easy to progress at so kids become experts and addicts. Usefull skills have a hard initial learning curve but once you get past it they can be as addictive as games.
ADD is only a disorder if you haven't learned to cope with your brain emersed in the world.
My ADD is bad, but my hands are worse.
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This is not a political statement. This is not legal advice. It's a frick'n Slasdot post. However: I'm Running For
Yeah, that's really "flamebait" to call into question chemical treatment of a symptom with no established biological basis. Good point.
I never advocated giving ritalin or other psychoactive drugs to any child who acts a little different. And I am aware that many different problems can cause a lack of attention. And even for people who actually have ADD, medications can have differing effects. The same dosage of dexedrine (similar to ritalin) that helped me throughout high school eventually started causing severe depression as I got older - not because I didn't have ADD, but because my body started reacting differently.
In an ideal world, there would be a perfect way of testing, that would allow doctors to identify actual sufferers of ADD, while weeding out those with other problems, to avoid the problems you describe. But that's not possible now. The best they can do now is really research every child, and eliminate other problems before diagnosing ADD. When I was diagnosed, on top of having to fill out a gigantic (hundreds of questions) form and have several interviews with the doctor, my parents and several teachers were interviewed and had to fill out forms describing my problems and what they saw me do.
And then, after they started me on medication, I was closely monitored to get the dosage right - seeing the doctor once a week for awhile, and after that, at least every other month, just to avoid problems with the medication.
Unfortunately, very few doctors and parents are this careful anymore. And that's why there are so many problems with mis-diagnosis, and the resulting backlash against ADD. So when you're a parent and the pop shrink suggests ritalin, don't just take his word for it - investigate, rule out other possibilities, get a second opinion, do everything you can to verify or disprove that diagnosis - but don't deny people with ADD the medicine they need simply because you think ritalin is over-prescribed.
G0del
Unfortunatly you can also blame the insurance companies for not covering the proper testing and treatment.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
Good luck with your son. I'm fairly sure that if you would have been with him his entire life, he would find reading interesting, as you do. I'm certain that I got it from my mother, who I'm fairly sure has ADD as well. Keep setting a good example.
Reading is awesome, isn't it? It's the best way to ignore teachers without getting into trouble too much....
My problem at work is that I have some amazing coworkers. I have to hyperfocus consistently to keep up with them. This summer was hard. I broke my ankle, so without exercise, my ADD got a lot worse. Plus, I've been working on design documents rather than actually coding. I was diagnosed a few weeks ago, and things are really starting to turn around now. I'm not going to fix it by switching jobs this time....
From what I've read about it, the ADD (and ADHD) behavior is theorized to come because various parts of the brain are not providing the correct _inhibition_ behavior (treating the brain as a massive neural network of excitation & inhibition mechanisms).
The Ritalin actually stimulates the neurons in those parts of the brain which actively suppress activity in other parts of the brain, which causes the sufferer to have much more control over their attention & behavior.
These kids don't know how good they have it.
Back in my day, I had to learned how to ADD, I wasn't born with it. I had to learn how to SUBTRACT, too and MULTPLY. Now they're saying playing games helps kids with ADDing.
I'm truly living in the best of times. I wish I had all the things that kids today have. I really would've been someone...
-- New findging: Early paste eaters 42% less likely to divorce.
People really are ignorant about Ritalin. It's not such a big drug. I don't feel stoned or anything. You just feel in control of your focus. I understand that some children may have been diagnosed with ADD wrongly but I'm sure the bad press it got makes it look much more common than it really is. I can't imagine how great my life would have been if I had been diagnosed at an early age.
Ho well..
PCXL Forever!!!!
Responding to what may be a genuine mental disorder with violence or verbal abuse won't help it I think. Maybe you can cow kids into sitting down and studying, but that won't necessarily help them learn. They'll just sit there, reading the same passage again and again, trying to focus and failing.
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LaRC is the NASA center at Langley. There's Langley AFB, LaRC, and then our good buddies in the CIA . . .
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<><
-- Geof F. Morris
>Actually, its in Hampton, VA
There is a Langley Air Force Base down there.
AFAIK, having been a semi-experimental subject in exactly this sort of EEG biofeedback method of treatment, it simply doesn't work. It is based on the observation that a state of "attention" is characterized by a ratio of beta waves to theta waves less than 1. The mistake made is assuming that if you can train someone to actively lower the ratio into that range, then they'll have been trained to concentrate. The beta/theta ratio is a symptom of attentitiveness, but it is apparently not the cause.
This article continues to mention ADD but it does not distinguish if it is ADD or ADHD (ADD with hyperactivity). Not all people with ADD are hyperactive.
I imagine that video games and other forms of treatment will work differently based on what exactly the child has.
On a side note, on of the items they used to diagnose my ADD was a computer program, much like a video game, that measured response time over a certain amount of time. It was on an Apple IIe if I can remember correctly. The idea was to press a button every time a square appeared inside another square... or something like that.
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
I remember sitting in front of Leather Goddesses of Phoebos and Leisure Suit Larry for hours on end. My attention span has never been longer.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
They are using this to produce the perfect soldiers, whose minds focus to perfect clarity when they are told to kill something, but have no ability to concentrate the rest of the time, so they can't question the morality of their actions or consider disobedience.
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Despite rumors to the contrary, I am not a turnip.
SpuriousGeorge was the first.
<O
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XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
...says the Anonymous Coward, posting from his computer assembled from components by laborers, in a building most likely created by laborers, connected via miles of telephone or cable wiring laid down and installed by (you guessed it!) laborers, who drives down streets that were paved by (say it with me!) laborers in a car produced by (who??) laborers, eating food most likely produced by (again! imagine that!) laborers, wearing clothes produced by (3rd world underpaid) laborers...
...who, without the work of laborers, would most likely be either (a) naked, homeless, connectionless, transportationless, and damn hungry or (b) forced to work for himself.
Now, as for your statment that "Athletes are useless", I find myself in pretty much full agreement. <rant> I'm just disgusted with the amount of money professional athletes make these days - it's downright obscene. Look at the health care system. Look at how much money is being spent on education (as in, not enough). And these athletes are making millions of dollars per year just for being really, really good at throwing a ball. How many teachers could you hire on one superstar's salary? </rant>
OK, taking a deep breath now...
________________________
Corporate Jenga: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...
The article says that the contols become responsive when the subject raises the high frequency brainwaves. The way this is done is by being calm.
It is possible to learn to be calm under high pressure situations. I spent a semester at the US Air Force Academy (found out that not everyone in the Air Force flew fighter planes 24/7, and I had no chance of being one of those that did). I am still amazed at how much calmer I was under nearly all situations when I came home. I was rather high strung before that stint. The video games are the same as the upperclassmen yelling contradictory orders in our face. There is a high-stress situation that must be handled calmly (any sign of being flustered was a sure ticket of more 'treatment').
Currently, video games offer the stress, but there is nothing to force it to be handled with serenity. My youngest son is border ADD (he ain't touching Ridlin), and I think this would help him. But I'd like to get one of these devices to use myself. I'm a little to high strung (USAFA was 15yrs ago), and I think this would be better than meditation.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
And I create video games! Get your head around that one!
when you can use drugs? If you just give little Jonny some Ritalin you can lock in him the closet, and he won't be stopping the parents from watching Survivor by using his gaming console.
Anyone else notice ./ lost a few hours? The newer stories disappeared and I'm once again eligible to M2...
Careful with that time machine there, Rob!
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
What happened to the decss post? Slashdot doesn't usually remove posts...
... that parents routinely drug their children to achieve desirable behavior, then turn around and drug themselves with prozac, caffein[e], or alcohol to fill the emptiness of their own sorry existence.
No kidding. Am I the only one who finds it a little disturbing that the FDA recently ga ve approval to a prozac derivative for the treatment of PMS? And don't get me started on alcohol....
Studies have shown that the symptoms of ADD in children are difficult to distinguish from those of Bipolar disorder ("Manic Depression".)
It's interesting to note how few adults maintain ADD's symptomatic behavior and the fact that so few children are diagnosed Bipolar. They numbers are nearly inversely proportional. I'm not saying ADD doesn't exist, but it's a phenomenon worth noting.
-somnambule
Although, when you mix the two, there's trouble... at least, that's the story at my local Baldur's Gate Anonymous group...
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while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
--
while ( !universe->perfect() ) {
hack (reality);
}
I would think that the success or failure of such a method would depend on the videogame involved. Let me explain: Hyperactivity is due to an imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain. Ritalin is actually a stimulant, but for the ADHD patient, it supplies the chemicals needed to return to balance. So think about the effect of adrenaline. When you're knee-deep in an active game like Quake 3, your body is cranking out adrenaline (one reason, incidentally, why action games are "addictive"). Adrenaline stimulation doesn't supply the missing neurotransmitter; in fact, it makes things worse by over-driving the brain, consuming what little amounts of the neurochemical are left. Then there's the "crash" when the adrenaline wears off. The brain is now further depleted than usual, and the body is trying to frantically recover itself. A lot of this is based on personal experience. I've been diagnosed with ADHD for over 11 years, and it's not likely I'll grow out of it (a fraction of people never do). I've learned to recognize when I'm getting in too deep (i.e. my hands are shaking, I'm sweating too much at the arcade, or I'm getting angry at the game too easily), but it's not easy since you're already handicapped by the way ADHD affects judgement. The article didn't specify the game involved, but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't an action title... There are a lot of misconceptions about hyperactivity. For example, hyperactive kids aren't necessarily going to be better at videogames. I suck at fighting games because I don't plan ahead well enough. Hyperactive people can focus on a single task, they simply can't maintain that focus as long as normal people do. If the task is simple enough (like entering a table of numbers in a spreadsheet), hyperactive people are actually somewhat faster than normal people. And while drugs can help the symptoms, the best way to deal with the root problem is behavioral therapy, such as counciling. And there are alternatives to Ritalin that are much easier on the body (such as Wellbutrin). And if a biofeedback system is effective, so much the better if it can be packaged in videogame form.
There are actually many, many teachers who went into teaching in spite of low salaries and high teaching loads, because they want to help people learn, not because they couldn't do anything else. I have an incredible amount of respect for those people.
However, there aren't enough of them. So the standards have to be lowered so that people who can't get higher paying jobs can make it through the curriculum.
If teacher pay scales went up 50% across the board, I bet we would see a dramatic increase in the number of good and excellent teachers. Unfortunately, in the current political climate it seems the only way this is going to happen is through further privatization of schools, which is IMO, a bad thing.
Also there are some good ones out there already. I was privleged to encounter many excellent teachers throughout my K-12 career, while my brother, 2 years younger, had teachers ranging from bad to worse. In the same school system. If it wasn't for one of my 3rd grade teachers, I would probably be a high school dropout professional stoner mooching off my parents.
Me personally, I'd be willing to take a paid leave of absence to develop ADD and play quake 24 hours a day. If it's all in the name of science... you understand.
I suffer from a mild case of Giles de la Tourette's Syndrome which, while having some differences in cause, includes some ADD tendencies. Anecdotally, I've noticed that my muscular twitches bother me less while I'm absorbed in a game, so perhaps there's something to this.
Does anyone know if there's any research along these lines?
An ability to concentrate on *certain things* does *not* indicate a lack of ADD.
I have taken numerous tests designed to diagnose the disorder, including brainwave analysis, and have tested positively on all of them.
A symptom that frequently goes along with ADD is tendency for the attention to *fixate* on certain things, to such a point that all other stimuli are effectively blocked out, somewhat analogous to mental "tunnel vision".
Before I had undertaken any treatment for ADD, I had been observed several times to pick up a book and read for upwards of 6 hours or so, without eating, getting up, etc., because my attention had become so fixated on the activity at hand that I was almost physically incapable of stopping until the book ~4-500pages was finished.
In the same way, I have seen people incapable of finishing a single sentence without being distracted by a shiny object(slight exaggeration) play Quake for hours numbering in the double digits (no exaggeration).
Without the pad, it's not Dance Dance Revolution, it's Listen
Don't feel too bad Rob, just look at all the people on /. who can't be bothered to RTFA before they post.
(Read the Funny Articles).
ADD is, by definition, a disease. This disease includes a chemical imbalance in the brain. Much like clinical depression, it has symptoms that are not conclusive. Normal people get bored, normal people get depressed. The difference is, people with those diseases are unable to control themselves to, in ADD, continue working on something after they become bored. In the case of depression, medication allows people to, through conciling or whatever, come to terms with whatever trauma instigated their depression and deal with it.
However, both are frequently mis-diagnosed, largely by non-professionals because a normal person may exhibit many of the same symptoms, but without the chemical imbalance. I have known several people with ADD, to whom Ritalin was a godsend. This contributes to the overperscription, because to the people genuinely afflicted, it is a miracle drug.
Many bright children, in particular, are mis-diagnosed as having ADD by teachers who notice that they don't pay attention. In many cases this is because the students are so far ahead of the teachers that they might as well be in their own world. Or, they give up on waiting for the rest of the class to catch up, and start reading (this is what I always did). The solution to this is to seperate students out by learning speeds and teach them differently. However, this is usually criticized as elitism and unfair. I went to 1-4 at a school that did that kind of tracking (well, they started in 3rd grade, I think), and 5-8 in a system that was only concerned with brining each student up to "state norms", and I can say without a doubt that what is totally unfair is to refuse to teach each student at the rate they want and are able to learn.
I played Ultima Online with a kid who had ADD.
He was CONSTANTLY allways talking, and then would e-bolt guild members when he felt like it. (Even though we knew he required attention, it was very difficult to do guild events / play the game since he was allways being a distraction.)
The game, unfortunately, did nothing to help him. It only brought the problem out even more, since there was always people around.
Now, action console games, might have helped, but any game that allows for multiple player interaction, be it FPSs or MMPPRPGs wouldn't be a good choice.
Oh, but of course we do. And just *HOW* do we know this? Easy, we're all good little drones^H^H^H^H^H^H... er... christians who beleive what our chick tracts tell us.
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Imagine all the people...
Tell me, and I may forget.
Show me, and I may remember.
Involve me, and I will understand.
- [ancient chinese proverb]
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www.scorbett.ca
I think this phenomenon of "ADD" is an example of a general problem we have of classifying what we like to think of as 'problems' or 'epidemics'. It makes for nice and neat classifications so we can easily bill for health insurance and set parents at ease, knowing that their child's problem is recognized by the health community and can be dealt with by giving a quick fix.
Also makes for a few nice articles in glossy magazines. If you ask me this whole ADD crap is heading in the wrong direction. Most of us have short attention spans, but should we be drugged up or instead should we focus on the entertainment/media/society which makes us(USA) this way in the first place?
You obviously haven't played a good Tetris clone such as freepuzzlearena Tetanus. To survive at the higher speed levels in some of those games, you must make sure that moving the pieces around is a reflex action. When you're learning Tetris, it's a thinking game, but once you get up there, boy...
<O
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XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
Sure, video games can help a 6-year-old remember all 150 Pokemon and learn to count to 150... but beyond that, what good is it going to teach him beyond "fire beats water"?
And yes, that was sarcasm... we all know water should beat fire... that's part of my point. Sure, you can memorize every map on Final Fantasy II, but can you find your way form Boston to Seattle?
What purpose does it serve to use up every word in your vocabulary in the first post?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Next time she complains that I'm not giving her my undivided attention, I'll bring this up and go play Quake III for several hours.
"Evil beware: I'm armed to the teeth and packing a hampster!"
Lex orandi, lex credendi.
And its not the Ritalin which caused the improvement, because he was on it then, too.
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo
The point of this isn't just prediction/goal seeking/concentration.
The brainwaves of these kids are measured and used to make the controls to the games more or less responsive. The only reason they use video games is because it's a tedious process where kids have a tendency to get bored.
If he is playing UO 24 hours a day, I don't think he has much of a problem paying attention to things. He just doesn't want to pay attention to the more inportant things (getting a job, graduating high school). This is why I think ADD is the biggest load of crap. Yeah, I sit in front of the computer for hours, but it's not ADD, it's choosing to ignore more important things (like schoolwork, etc).
#airyk
this country's going to hell, and it's all your fault
#airyk
Why are we trying to cure ADD. High-speed tots are a cheap, renewable energy source.
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All generalizations are false.
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I like to watch.
We got a call from the admins at my son's school. Seems he was causing disturbances again. Seems he was unable to pay attention to the work at hand. Seems they think he needs to go on Ritalin (never mind getting to a doctor and having him diagnosed).
we took him to a doctor. The doctor did not test him. He simply asked; "is your son able to pay attention to video games?" To which we emphatically replied "yes."
"then your son does NOT need to go on Ritalin, and does NOT have ADD or ADHD".
duh.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I don't think that the value of this lies in 'fixing' ADD (although I won't deny that it's probably what some people do have in mind, sadly..).
My experience/outlook on it is this. ADD and ADHD kids, by definition, have problems with attention spans. Having previously worked in a computer lab for children who are disabled/handicapped/ADD + ADHD/other various distresses, I can say with confidence that computers in general are of -huge- benefit in these cases, especially with ADD/ADHD. Kids who would normally be off the wall could come in to the lab, sit down in front of a computer for hours upon hours, and play educational games, draw, have fun, etc...without hardly ever losing their attention. Because of computers, whole worlds of education and fun are being opened up for kids who would, 15 years ago, be merely chastised and termed "stupid" (I know this as well, because it happened to someone close to me. It wasn't until he was in his 2nd year of college that he finally got the recognition of his disorder that he needed to successfully learn. Previously, he had merely been thought to be of a lower level of intelligence; now, because he was recognized to have ADHD, and in addition took a liking to computers, he's making 6 digits and is quite a reputable employee.)...
My point is, the mainstream realization of this can have profoundly positive affects on the ADD/ADHD community, and I'm all for it.
I might be able to read longer things on web pages if I didn't have to look at blinking things the whole time. People who use animated gifs should be beaten.
-Chris
There are two kinds of Dexadrine. I had the kind you did take twice a day. Ritalin didn't work for sh*t, but Dexadrine did. Dexadrine is actually the most concentrated ingradient of Adderol (sp?), which is another treatment better than Ritalin.
While the careful calibration of video-game feedback devices may be useful in 'fixing' ADD, it still gives the impression that 'hyperactive' kids are somehow bad and need to be cured. Some of the best and brightest people I know have ADD and to think of their curiosity and their mind being 'cured' is disconcerting, to say the least. This country is quickly sliding down into a carefully controlled society, with very little deviation from the 'standard' allotted.
Perhaps if our society had less influences from corporate behemonths selling soundbites to our children, we could see some real improvement.
You are more than the sum of what you consume.
You are more than the sum of what you consume.
Desire is not an occupation.
Only in America. Ritalin is over-prescribed, IMO, in Canada, too.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I've read a lot of research which says that video games help cause ADD. Now they research that it causes it. I wonder if a different criteria was used perhaps, such as the person paying attention to the video game (in this study), and the person paying attention to other stimuli and people (other studies), the later being what I would prefer them research - lets face it, in the grand scheme of things, it dosen't really matter if you concentrate on a video game.
SSL Certificate
The ways to tell if someone has ADD are too vague. The characteristics are too vague. Let me get this straight "If an eight year old can't concentrate on his or her own schoolwork, they have ADD?" pfft. I think parents should be responsible for making sure there children can concentrate, not the pharmacist.
"Here's a spoiler: You're will die alone."-Triumph the Insult Comic Dog
If only this article came out in 1982 when my parents didn't want me to play Atari...
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Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
"Langley Research Center"... does anyone else find this suspicious?
"We're just testing to see how children playing video games helps ADD. What are the games? Well, for one, the kids pretend to fly little robotic cameras around the Chinese embassy. Another is called "Cracking the Keys of the Evil Doctor P. G. P." Really fun stuff. Oh, and yeah, it helps their ADD."
I seriously doubt that I was the only person to think that this had something to do with table top roleplaying.
Odd, though, that a medium that was once thought to be the cause of attention span problems is now being used to alleviate them. I can remember a time when nothing good was said of games. It makes me wonder... are video games now an accepted part of our culture? Or are they still just toys?
"Nevermore shall I return... Escape these caves of ice" -Xanadu, Neil Peart, Rush
Early in the game it was easy. You don't need to focus. Just move units for a couple of turns. Get up walk around then play a couple more turns.
Of course in the late game I have about 30 cities trying to plan production of all of them. The Zulus attacking the west the French attacking from north,and I am trying to attack the Romans to the south. Argh
I would quit. But when I restart it I have the same problem, now I can't remember what I was doing and I try to make a stratgy but have to manage all those cities Argh.
If you are wondering about RTS games(Warcraft.Age of Empires) When I first played AOE II online it was have my villager hunt deer, make a couple of villager, go chop lumber, then make a swordsman or two.
But teammates would complain about me being slow. I realize this game requires 100 percent focus from the very begining. This can be total agony. I stop focusing for 30 seconds and then I am not making villagers for the time. Against anyone good that would be a deficit difficult to over come.
I have basic drilled the first twenty minutes of the game and I think my focusing has improved.
One thing I noticed abou the article that this is mental exercise. But it is viewed as a treatment. Brain Power always seems to be viewed as fixed and cannot be exercised. But mental illness can be "treated".
Yeah, seriously - without starting a flamewar - anything has got to be better than just putting kids on dope.(I'm not condemming parents who use Ritalin - I'm just saying, developing new treatments is a good thing).
As someone who was put on Ritalin briefly as a child (and vividly recall how the beauty and luster of the world was drained as a result, replaced by a torpid and colorless place one wouldn't recognize), I do blame parents for doping up their children. A little dietary change (hint: avoid artificial colorings and preservatives), a litte attention, and a little breathing room to play do (and did) wonders.
It is very indicative of just how degenerate and selfish our society has become, that parents routinely drug their children to achieve desirable behavior, then turn around and drug themselves with prozac, caffein, or alcohol to fill the emptiness of their own sorry existence. All the while condemning users of other, alternative chemicals and waging a war on their lifestyles that is consting all of us our most fundamental rights.
How soon before we have a pill for those suffering from Consumerist Assimulation Disorder (read: those unwilling to mindlessly consume and not talk back)? Credzac, anyone (free with a $25 purchase applied to your new Visa or MasterCard, limited time offer, hurry now!)
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
when i saw the title on the frontpage i thought it was about Advanced Dungeons & Dragons!!!
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BeDevId 15453 - Download BeOS R5 Lite free!
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
If I understand the article correctly, they make the controller more responsive when you're calm, and less responsive when you're not. I may be atypical, but I am generally calm while playing a video game unless something comes up that requires precise motor control to avoid being killed.
I have lousy fine motor skills to begin with, so I get killed a lot in video games because of a simple lack of coordination, resulting in increased tension. The increased tension would reduce the responsiveness of the game controller in this context, compounding my already poor control, resulting in increased frustration, resulting in further reduced responsiveness.
It may be that children with ADD exhibit different patterns during the less stressful parts of gameplay, making the tool more effective for them.
Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich hungrig.
Obviously, my ADD is not typical, but I do not have the attention span to watch TV. I mean, I can sit down and flip through the channels, but after about 15 minutes, I get bored and walk away. No way can I sit through a whole program. So about once a month I sit down to watch TV to catch some of the new commercials, but that's all the TV I watch.
Again, most twitch video games are the same. I can do well for a while. But if you get blown away every time you get distracted, you lose the incentive.
On the other hand, I can go "hyperfocus" (that state that ADD'ers love) on games like Civilization. I remember sitting down to play that game at about 10PM and not looking up until I won the game (it was daylight outside).
Novels are another great way to focus. Once you can read quickly, a novel moves so much faster than those boring TV shows. I guess I'm lucky, because most ADD people have trouble concentrating enough to read properly.
I used to hyperfocus on coding, but I'm losing that. Getting paid for what you love is a nasty way to turn it into work. Ugh.
Chewable ritalin! Drinkable ritalin! Injectable ritalin! Playable ritalin!
10,9,8,7,6,5,4...what's on Cartoon Network?
Ack...
channel change...
channel change...
click
click
click
down through the chimney with old Saint Nick!
Give me Chrono Chross!
No, not that to long to load...
drive hard
drive fast!
Gran Turismo?
No?
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
Nevermind that the admins were prescribing medication and should be reported for it. It's illegal and most parents don't really understand the gravity of the matter. Get all contact with the school in writing from now on. Report the guy far and wide.
Some of these people really need to be jail for the child abusers they really are, anyway.
In space, no one can hear you moo.
He's saying how TV can shorten a childs attention span thanks to channels like mtv that switch scenes every 2 or 3 seconds. Thats why kids can't sit down for any length of time and concentrate on something.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
....it came from a doctor in Alaska(?)
Basically you have a bunch of kids sitting in desks flipping out. The doctor walks in, smacks the first kid upside the head and yells "Sit down, shut up, and study!!"
Same thing is done to the next kid. The third kid is already quiet (in shock of someone telling him what to do) and reading.
Discipline works a lot better drugs. Giving kids a free head and *expecting* them to want and sit quiet and learn is asking for anarchy. If you love your child enough to give them drugs, do you love them enough to smack 'em upside the head?
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+&x
Foo! Where was this kind of research when I needed it..er..uh..
;-)
Sure, I can pay attention to video games. I think the word is addiction.
"I see your little Nivlem is able to pay attention to something for more than 20 minutes, wonderful!"
"Yes, but then we have to unplug it to get him away from it."
Well, perhaps with the right parental supervision. Supervising the parents, that is
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Oh, I see.
So you would rather the owners of the franchises get all the money?
There is a tremendous amount of revenue generated. It's only fair that players get their cut, regardless of if it's thousands or millions. It's not a situation where if the athlete only made 100K, you could hire X more teachers. That's just more money in the pockets of the team owners.
BilldaCat
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The brainwaves of children playing the games are monitored and used to calibrate the performance of the joystick or gamepad being used to play the game.
Bzzzzzzzzztttttt!When the children produce the right sort of brainwaves the joystick becomes more responsive reinforcing the behaviour.
That's right, electo-shock therapy to cure people of being crap at sonic the hedgehog :-)
I like it.
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In America, increasing numbers of children are being treated for ADD and many doctors are prescribing drugs such as Ritalin to calm them down and help them expand their attention span.
Yeah, seriously - without starting a flamewar - anything has got to be better than just putting kids on dope. (I'm not condemming parents who use Ritalin - I'm just saying, developing new treatments is a good thing).Earlier this year the annual report of the International Narcotics Control Board found that, in some American schools, up to 40% of children in a class were being given Ritalin.
Makes the war on drugs seem a bit silly.
G
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've seen kids many times that have ADD, and can't keep their mind focused on anything. However, sit them in front of Final Fantasy and they won't stop playing.
It's because videogames have the imagery of being FUN. Now, if we could use this knowledge and have the ADD kids use edutainment that has the imagery of being FUN, they can learn just as fast, if not faster, than the other kids.
Some people I've known with ADD are really smart. Even I have a very mild case of ADD. Make something fun, and we'll pay attention.
And before you label this "troll," consider the CLINICAL (viz, medical) criteria for diagnosing ADHD: the patient must display 6 symptoms from a list of 12, 6 of which relate to hyperactivity, and 6 of which relate to attention deficit. Now, disregarding questions about whether hyperactivity has anything to do with attention deficit, consider. A child must simply display symptoms. Any ONE of which, it should be noted, is normal in any child. There is no biological basis, it's purely a behavior thing. And clearly a matter of degree.
Yet, we "treat" this condition pharmacologically. Hmm. And, conveniently, the most widely known "treatment" is Ritalin, a stimulant very similar to cocaine in a lot of ways. So, basically, if you're diagnosed as "not able to cope with the world," they dope you up until you can.... hello, "Brave New World" here we come.
BTW, this is not a conspiracy theory, just a statement about how f*cked up the pharmacutical industry is. Not to mention the western worldview. Egh.. someone get me a cup of coffee, or a coupla noDoze.
If they're increasing their attention spans and problem solving abilities with games like Legend of Zelda, that's one thing. If they're becoming psychologically dependant on Quake in order to evoke patience and calmness, that seems like a problem. Imagine a whole generation of kids who get a calm, centering feeling every time they commit an act of violence.
They obviously aren't talking about Quake III, which leaves me as wired as a couple of 20 oz. Mountain Dews. In the words of Arlo Guthrie, "Kill! Kill! Kill!"
I wonder if ADD afflicted children are more susceptible to the siezures sometimes caused by video games?
Luckily though, my brother (his father), like me, is a big computer/console game junkie. He discovered early on that my nephew not only would play the games but actually excelled at them in a savant kind of way. God knows he kicked MY ass enough times on N64.
But what this did was provide the child with an avenue for communication. Some of these games were fairly difficult and he needed to ask someone how to get past a part. Now I'm not sure that's what they mean here but ANY avenue in that situation is really a blessing in disguise.
He gets better daily. I still remember the day he initiated a conversation and called me "Uncle". It gave me that warm, gushy feeling.
I've always scoffed at the supposed evil of video games. It's nice to see some scientific evidence saying the same.