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ESR's Sex Tips For Geeks
An Anonymous Coward writes: "According to Eric S. Raymond in
this article,
'hackers don't have to be helpless chum in the dating-game shark pool. We have some advantages; with a little understanding of human ethology we can learn how to use them effectively.'"
Anyone who says brains aren't sexy doesn't get turned on by a liter of gray tissue.
You're not looking at him through the eyes of a woman.
(b) having more self confidence makes you instantly more attractive to girls. When my former boyfriend started going out with me, suddenly he found girls flirting with him rather than ignoring him as had previously been the case. Why? Because it was obvious that he wasn't interested - a challenge! So act like you've got a girlfriend (body language - posture, no staring at chests, etc., and bingo!)
HTH!
April Fools? Geeks getting girls? Do u see a connection here?
I brought this girl home once (that wasn't the only time :-) and had a great time. A great time 'till next morning that is:
Girl: Can I check my email?
Me:Sure.
Girl:Ummm, I think your computer is broken. It says something about a Zoot. It wants me to "Login" to "Braveheart".
Me: Shit. Hold on a sec, let me add a user.
One minute later
Girl:What is this? This isn't one of those "free" operating systems is it?
Me: *grin from ear to ear* Why yes it is. Linux actually, my favorite...
Girl: What? Can't you afford Windows?
Me: Well. Yes, but...well, I mean....
Girl:Whatever.
five minutes later
Girl: Where the hell is the Start button?
Me: You see that picture of Jessica Alba in the lower right hand corner?
He: Oh, I see your pupils are contracting. I'll go away now.
She: No, I just took a couple of Percocets. They always make my pupils pin out. Wanna fuck?
Rohypnol: Better Loving Through Chemistry
This article has been here for several minutes now, and still only about 10 comments.
:-)
Could it be that the average slashdotter is actually *reading* the article for once?
When will people stop putting up with these stone age attitudes, and start demanding that women be treated as if they were actual human beings?
I don't know, when will women stop having sex with men who have stone age attitudes, and start having sex with men who treat them as human beings?
Did anyone else go to a scary visual place, too ?
> Now if you are a nice person any girl that
> really gets to know you and has had some
> experience with a*holes should be a target.
> Unfortunatly not all girls have that experience.
Sorry, but what kind of asshole are you? I hope that _no_ girl has to made experience with assholes just for my own success with her.
So: _Fortunately_ not all girls have (to make) that experience.
No, I understand this a real reaction. For an interesting application of this, read Larry Nivens A gift from Earth.
In A gift from Earth, the main character has the subconcious ability to make people become uninterested in him by making their pupils contract. It happened whenever he was scared, so he ended up as a twenty-something virgin (just to bring this back on topic!). i.e he would chicken out at the last minute and the girl would take an interest in *anything* but him.
Anyway, by the end of the book he not only learns how to control this ability (kinda), but how to do the reverse. i.e make a person fixate on him by dilating their pupils. But he's already gotten laid by that point :)
(Note that there were not one, but two Edwin Hoogerbeets; one that went to University of Waterloo, and, for a while, worked at Microsoft, and another, quite distinct, with a somewhat ZZ-Top-like beard, that got pictured in a Microsoft advertisement back in the late '80s.)
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
"Fact: Women love long hair! It's an instant chick magnet. It's better than walking puppies in the park! Wash it and wear it down. Toss it around on your shoulders a lot. When my guy does this, women will just walk up and start touching his hair! Wouldn't you like this to happen to you?"
Well, I asked my wife about this one, and she claims *my* long (shoulder-length) hair is sexy. Of course, hers is longer than mine, so she might be biased. I can't say that I've had women standing in line to run their fingers through it (though I once met a woman who wanted to run her fingers through my beard).
Are you moderating this down because you disagree with it,
We call it art because we have names for the things we understand.
It wasn't too frightening for
Doctress Neutopia. For a short while, RMS was a shoo-in for the post of Gaia Messiah. It didn't work out, she complained about the disgustingly filthy state of his keyboard and started comparing him to Bill Gates.
So here's a question I've been wondering about for a while. How many geeks consider themselves to be in polyamorous/polygamous relationships? I definitely see a higher percentage in the wiccan community, and I think I see it in the geek culture too.
I'm not advocating polygamous relationships, and I'm not criticizing them either. I'd just like to see what fellow geeks think.
Josh
anything you do will be considered sexy if it is behind the wheel of an Italian or German-made exotic automobile.
I knew that buying a Trabant and a Cinquecento was a good investment!
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Count another poly geek here.
Like you, I do think I sense a slightly higher percentage of geeks in the bi and poly communities I hang in.
I've noticed something more striking. While I've taken relatively little crap about my sexuality and my relationship style, things have been even more positive for me in the geek community, both in terms of understanding (not having to explain poly) and acceptance. (Of course, that's just my own experience, and a generalization at that.)
--j
I'm a nature photographer.
that ESR didn't bring up his favorite subject, guns, in this context. Unlike most geeks ESR has the advantage in that he isn't the mild-mannered inoffensive sort of guy that women mock -- he's a mild mannered sort of guy who has enough firepower to take down most SWAT teams.
- Confidence. As you succeed, you gain confidence that you can
succeed, and you gain confidence in yourself. Therefore, women look
for this. A guy who is confident is a guy who, if he isn't already
successful, has a high probability of being successful.
- Assertiveness. To succeed, you must insist on getting what you
want. You must assert yourself, must compel others to do your
bidding. Want to know why men always have to make the first move?
Simple: because doing so shows that the guy is assertive enough (and
confident enough) to try. This may mean insisting on getting what you
want at the expense of others, perhaps even at the expense of the
women you're interested in. So be it.
- Aggressiveness. You can't just assert yourself at the beginning
and expect to succeed. You can't just mess around. You have to be
aggressive about going after what you want. You have to be willing to
put a great deal of energy into it. This often translates to other
areas, for instance defense of territory.
Women pick up on all of these things. The guys that are cocky, arrogant, mean (aggressive), and (in many geeks' eyes) cruel (assertive) seem to always end up with the women precisely because women are looking for the above traits. Kindness doesn't even enter into the equation until much later. But by that time, the man has scored, and in evolutionary terms that is all that matters.Finding the right combination of these traits to display is the real trick. Confidence is probably the best trait to work on because it involves the fewest compromises. Most geeks are highly confident in their computer skills. But what needs to show through is confidence about everything. And that means that, as a male, you must approach a woman you're interested in as if there's no question that the outcome of the encounter will be in your favor. And you must do so without hesitation or doubt.
--
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
[Unless they're so ugly that they can't get any attention otherwise. :-)]
Seriously, many intelligent women do not try to impress with their physical beauty, even if they could.
Oh, and I'm sure that 7of9 only gets so much attention because of her cleavage.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Someone rewrite that article in nroff -man format, please! sex.1 needs to be updated.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Heeheehee... my favorite line of this message comes right at the end:
Hey, this is a funny thing. Did you know that the name of Bill Gate's wife is Melinda? Isn't that the name of your virtual sweetheart?
(giggle)
You see, Eric doesn't understand women. And yes, I know him well enough to say that.
For one thing, the courtship token issue. A lot of women don't like them, not because they are too intrusive, but rather because they don't like what they represent. One has to find the appropriate level of gift at the appropriate time. It used to be flowers and candy, but for many modern women, either or both will be turn-offs at any time. And I disagree that these are "after sex" types of tokens. In fact, I think I'd be much more insulted if I'd received them right after! But if someone's interested and having trouble expressing that, flowers can be helpful in communicating that.
I'd also amend his point about having sex only with people you're prepared to love to the following, more realistic statement: have sex only with people with whom you're not only willing to love, but who you're willing to pay child support to for 18 years. You see, the choice of whether or not there's a child isn't your choice, ultimately, and no method of contraception is foolproof. If you're not ready to have a child and the costs thereof, keep zipped unless you know the outcome could not possibly produce a child.
One key point he misses: Women have an ability to turn off sexual interest (as distinct from romantic interest) for long periods in ways that guys don't. Like the chronic interest in men, it is a biological feature of women. This is one key reason women don't think the way men do.
_Deirdre
free software people don't kill people...
Open souce people kill people.
--------------------------------
There's something strangely subliminal about the presence of the string "$date$" on the index page of this piece.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
I cut off my hair (Had rather long hair) and almost immediately had new classes of girls talking to me.
Here's my advice to getting the time of day:
Dress nice but not fancy, casual so you look like you fell out of a macy's catalogue or something.
Keep trimmed, and neat.
Be confident, but not cocky. Show it's nerving to go talk to them, but maintain an attitude like it's ok to be shot down because you cant succeed if you dont try.
Talk to the girl when there isn't competition or a low amount, but when it's ok to talk to them. Don't try to chat them up at a supermarket, or while they are studying.
But, the hair thing is absolute crap. Most my friends have long hair, and after I cut mine and they saw what happened they are all considering cutting it.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
And that made no sense whatsoever (at least from my French 3 perspective). I think what you meant to say is:
Non, des femmes et des filles trouvent que des hommes qui parlent francais sont idiot
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
As the AC who posted the initial reply to Terri Rolle, I have to jump in again (I expected way more flames quite frankly).
Geeks tend to believe that they could treat women better, if only they had the chance. This is absurd, the guys that are getting laid are the guys that do know how to treat a woman.
You're absolutely right. I agree with you completely. I was trying to point out to Terri Rolle that, in fact, women are sleeping with exactly the men they desire -- women can SAY they HATE "stone age attitudes" all they like, but so long as they keep rutting with the frat boys, men will keep acting like frat boys.
My greatest regret in life is that it took me so long to stop listening to what women SAID they wanted and start paying attention to what they actually ACTED on.
Being intelligent is far from the most critical component in how you treat a woman.
I'd recommend looking for a good dancer and a pet owner, that'll tell you more than intelligence about how someone will be in a relationship. (yes, I'm a good dancer, no I'm not a pet owner, so I'm not just making up rules that I fulfill!)
---------------------------------------------
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
ESR is saying that the behaviors were successful on average ("instinct's way to steer us towards behaviors that were on average successful for our ancestors"), which is perfectly valid. A particular behavior won't necessarily have the same results every time; however, if on average a behavior gets a desired result, that behavior is likely to be propagated. Hence ESR's perfectly correct use of the word "average" here.
- Kaatunut
Skimming around this article, I encountered a decent amount of good common-sense advise in dealing with other people, communicating with one's partner, etc. But then I get to the section on safer sex (all two paragraphs of it!), and whatever respect I have for Eric's sex advice skills goes out the window:
I'm going to buck the current wisdom here and point out that, statistically, AIDS is a negligible risk for white heterosexuals in the U.S. unless your partner has needle tracks or you have an ulcerating STD like chancroids. Outside those circumstances, people in the U.S. and other developed countries probably get killed by lightning strikes more often than they catch AIDS through unprotected heterosexual intercourse (which is why the disease is now in decline here and has been for years).
The `traditional' STDs (gonorrhea, syphilis, herpes, chlamydia) are much more infectious and actually more significant risks, and genital warts are physically harmless but nearly endemic. Condoms can help, but you shouldn't rely on them (if only because genital mucous membranes aren't the only ones you're going to expose to a sex partner). Choosing your partners carefully is smarter.
I agree with Eric's basic point that choosing one's partners sensibly and thoughtfully can be one of the most important parts of living a safer sex lifestyle. I furthermore agree that the odds of HIV/AIDS being transmitted through vaginal intercourse are probably pretty low. But a few things to consider:
-henrik
No offense, but have you actually talked to the women you describe as "fat, ugly, hairy and mean?" We guys hate it when we are reject it because we are fat, skinny, not muscular enough, don't have a nice ass. Girls also hate being judged solely by their cup sizes & waist/hips ratios.
Fact: the most attractive (or unattractive) part of a person is personality. I know several friends who are happily married to women I wouldn't describe as physically attractive. The women are wonderful, incredibly nice people, and my friends are desperately in love with them.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
At least one other geek. Anyone reading who is interested in the subject of polyamoury should read "The Ethical Slut" Lizst/Easton, Greenery Press 1997(?)
Perhaps the whole thing is as scary to her as it is to you. Being confused and scared of getting embarassed in public does not really contribute to anyones ability to react in a tactfull manner.
-- Spelling and grammar errors tend to be a sign of erroneous thinking.
I wasn't so much frightened by that, but more how the overall aim was just for sex...
Beware!
Men, be more alert and cautious when getting a drink offer from a girl. There is a drug called beer, that is essentially in liquid form. The drug is now being used by female sexual predators at parties to convince their male victims to have sex with them.
The shocking statistic is that beer is available virtually anywhere! All girls have to do is buy a beer or two for almost any guy and simply ask the guy home for no-strings attached sex. Men are literally rendered helpless against such attacks.
Please! Forward this to everyone you know!!!
(I'm a cowboy, baby)
--
+&x
Beware!
--
+&x
>Honesty and being nice are the best two things a
:) . I have observed a lot of people with a lot of success with girls and this absolutely the way they act.
>geek can do to attract females.
Alas this a widely spread misconception. To pick up girls being too honest is often a bad strategy! Being as you really are might make girls run away. Don't forget that girls LOVE to dream, and have often an idealistic view of the man of her dreams (prince charmant syndrom) you must understand what she is looking for and make her feel that you are absolutely the man of her dreams. Sorry guys this absolutely cynical! But this is really the way it works, use you fabulous geek brain for this absolutely strategic social skill
Second, Honesty and being too nice may end being absolutely dangerous, as many women will consider you as a "good friend" but not one they consider sexually attractive.
Alas, Women thinking has often nothing to do with Honesty and kindness at least during the dating process, while they may consider this as good family values they are looking in a good husband, but to simply bring them to your bed, it's often useless, or nearly useless. Yes with women YOU NEED to be somehow cynical, and this is something very difficult for many geeks.
Yes, that is a real lion.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
...it's just that knowing you look good is the biggest self-confidence booster.
I have to respectfully disagree. Being comfortable with your appearence is what counts. If being comfortable means blending in, then fine, go and do that.
But, speaking as someone who is disfigured, it doesn't matter what you wear. Just that you are comforatable with it. I wear black jeans, and (plain) black t-shirt, because that's what I'm confortable in. Wearing trendy clothes wouldn't stop people from pointing and laughing at me, so I don't even start.
You don't have to look good to project confidence. I found that taking up Aikido did a lot more for me projecting confidence than anything else.
Really, the most important thing to add is don't let someone drag you out to get new clothes. That doesn't work. It only works if you go yourself. You don't have to.
And yes, I have a girlfriend.
--
This has been some guy's sig for the past few weeks (at least). I can't believe you missed it.
so, if this ESR cat is all that smart n'stuff, how come he can't count?
[...] I've recruited three beautiful geekgirl assistants; Cathy and Amy. They will supply [...]
Don't ask. Go see.
So is this what people are talking about when they say "Read the Fucking Manual"?
Be wary of the Quake match, she may beat you... :-)
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-- Dr. Seuss
..."be yourself". If yourself is chronically inept with attractive women, this advice sucks.
:-)>
Don't be yourself unless you're all ready somebody people would like
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-- Dr. Seuss
Brains are not a turn-off. Intelligence, used correctly, may be the fastest way to seperate a girl from her clothing. Instead of wowing your date by repeating an entire Star Trek episode from memory, why not use your considerable intellect to learn French? Girls really dig that stuff, unless of course she happens to be from France...
But anyway, you know what I mean. Use your abilities to learn things that will impress girls. Memorize every work of Mozart and Beethoven and learn to play a few. Teach yourself a spoken language. Use your brain for something other than learning another programming language or OS.
Another thing, clean up your act. Work out. Get a tan. Pay attention to your wardrobe. You know those hot little sexpots you see bouncing around with their flat stomachs and perky asses? WTF makes you think they want some slouch with a beer keg for a stomach that dresses like their little brother? Most guys can clean up their acts to a very respectable degree, if they put forth the effort. So the 'terminally ugly' defense is rarely true. You, yes YOU, can look much better than you look right now.
Is it shallow? Maybe. But so what? If it gets you what you want, mission accomplished! It's a means to an end. I promise, you'll not feel shallow the first night you bed a really attractive girl.
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
Ha. Would like to. Have no fucking chance. Have no fucking clue how I got with the woman I've spent 2 1/4 years with.
Have one friend. She's my girl, she's my everything. I need to bond closely with more people. Sure, I have acquaintances. But that bond with lots of folks, and extended Heinleinian Family O' Lovin'? Keep dreaming...
INTJ certainly has its ups and downs.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Wow, I guess there just aren't any gay or lesbian geeks out there who want/need relationship advice...
Well, maybe they're smart enough not to get it from Slashdot.
-grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Hell, "Hope" off their record, "Milo Goes to College," was my soundtrack for years. Most of that album is about the previously mentioned geek mindset of "Maybe if i'll treat her really good, she's bound to drop her asshole boyfriend and go out with me!"... Heh. Of course, a while later i got into the Replacements, and subsequently half of the tracks off of their "Let it Be" became my soundtrack....
hmm. Has someone poster a link to the Geek Love section at Miningco yet?
is that, as a male, you will tend to have a higher probability of wanting to bond for long-term reasons with a woman if you don't go to bed with her for a while.
I know, it's stupid, but there's a high correlation factor. So, IMHO, waiting for the third date is probably optimal, as it gives you a chance to get to know her, and increases your chance of a successful mating.
Probably related to time and resource investments, but it's fairly hard-wired into most men. Caveat: I formed long-term relationships as a result of one-night stands, and sometimes waited months, with continual flirting and escalating petting, only to have it fall apart once it became sexual.
But, as a general rule, if she doesn't want to go to bed the first time, this might make it better for you.
Will in Seattle
(I.e. your collection of vintage 80s microcomputers, collection of operating systems, overclocking hobby, your pet programming project, your interesting! sysadmin/ software/ engineering job or graduate degree program, your alluringly delicate and lanky bod, fluffy stomach hair, etc etc).
Fact: there are humans of both sexes who shrink in revulsion from those people I will only characterize as "scary conformist athlete fucks". ...I could go on in this vein. And from people who believe the quickest way to get a filly into bed is to talk to it (her?) like she is a horse (don't believe me? Read ESR- and remember! no sudden movements).
Get someone compatible, and you don't have to run away or block your ears when they start talking. Case in point: during a brief visit with my 2 60-something scientist parents this winter, I "introduced" them both to the early-PM SciFi channel lineup and inadvertently produced - simultaneously - 2 drooling, aged Babylon 5 rerun addicts. Imagine being able to watch meaningful TV with your hon.
Not that my parents should be the ideal you strive for.
PS: Hell... Anyone who can answer "yes" to the last 2 in my list of attributes, plus at least 2 of the others... should post a reply.
Subtle, piquant body odour is optional and to your taste; however, if present, said odour must not be "poopy". Bhangra or really vile electropop music a plus.
PPS: (Re. the horse approach: Isn't she going to notice? Nah... try this test case: pick any friend, and talk to him as if he is a horse for a few hours. Then ask if he noticed anything. He will probably say, "Noticed what? No, though come to think of it I have begun to feel an upwelling and inexplicable desire to let you... um... Hey! That Pamela Anderson is really hot!".)
--
keete
It's not ESR naked... It's Eric S. 'American Gigolo' Raymond, in a red velvet smoking jacket wearing a silk ascot sitting in an overstuffed chair in a room with red flocked velvet wallpaper, and red party bulbs for illumination. He's alternating between puffs on a cigar and samples his brandy sniffer. He then notices the camera and sets down the sniffer and in his best attempt at a Barry White voice... Basically the geek version of John Candy's 'Johnny LaRue' character. Now that's disturbing!
This may be a little offtopic, but I couldn't help my self. There's this little pop-punk band from Allentown PA called Digger who wrote a song called Geek Love, just thought I'd share the lyrics with you all.
Geek Love by Digger
I was wondering what you would think
of a stupid guy like me
'cause I was thinking it might be real cool
to be with a popular girl like you
you don't even look at me in school
what can I do
to get you to notice me
'cause I always notice you
I guess I was always way too short
I was never any good at sports
I don't want a letter on my shirt
I don't want to be just like Kurt
I want to be your man
I want to hold your hand
I want you to be my girlfriend
we could be a team, oh baby
we could be ok
we don't have to hear what they think
so why should we care what they say
we could go to the movies
get some popcorn and an icee-freeze
oh well I guess that that's ok
I forgot what I was going to say
doesn't really matter anyway, hey hey
I could call you on the phone
nobody has to know
maybe I could walk you home from school
that would be my dream, baby
please, that would be so cool
you don't have to tell anybody
you can still treat me like a fool
I might just be a geek
but I'm a geek in love with you
geek love
sorry to waste all you guy's (and gal's) time, if you are really curious about this band they are on Hopeless Records and you can buy all their CDs from either the label site or from interpunk.
Okay, mod me down now...
Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.
Surf the net for porn, so you know what real women should look like. Down here (miami), a goodly number of women do look like porn sluts...so this has some application to reality.
Being a geek, although a geek involved in the nightlife scene, I can say that I'm not monogamous. I tend to mess around a lot and not form stable relationships. I always let the girl know though, if I'm not going to be dedicated exclusively to her. My life's too unstable for a true blue relationship right now :)
Hmmm...short hair, denim jeans and black t-shirt. Have you not seen "Queer as Folk" on TV? That's "the uniform" in many gay locales such as San Francisco's Castro district or Toronto's Church and Wellesley "Village".
But really, both styles -- Nautica Preppy and Jeans and black tees -- are just fine. Pick the one that works for you.
...writing "Sex Tips for Geeks" is made considerably easier by the fact that anything you do will be considered sexy if it is behind the wheel of an Italian or German-made exotic automobile.
I have, fortunately or unfortunately, many friends who became multimillionaires in the midst of the dotcom run-up. Now even their flatulence smells to some women sweeter than "Obsession". So picking up chicks isn't really a problem for them any more. Now the problem is filtering out the ones who would've loved them when they slept in $300/mo campus housing and drove a Gremlin.
(Of course, I hope for ESR's sake that he managed to dump some of that VA Linux stock back in the day. What was once worth to him $36M would I think now be worth less than $500K... And losing over 95% of your personal wealth in less than two years is DEFINITELY not a good way to appear sexy to chicks, ESPECIALLY if you're a geek.)
http://www.askmen.com/men/business_politics/33b_bi ll_gates.html
http://www.askmen.com/men/entertainment/44b_brad_p itt.html
A rating of 99/100 for women magnetism for Bill Gates, and only 93/100 for Brad Pitt? Whoever says geeks can't be sexy?
Model yourself after the drip by the same name on Doctor Who, and you can kiss all your chick attraction prospects goodbye. ;)
So in other words, most people of either gender are whores, but we men are expected to be too dignified to show it, whereas gold digging is the accepted norm for women.
I'm sorry if this sounds mysogynistic, but there is some realistic basis to this observation.
[Comment from a geekgirl here? Maybe something about how if a push-up bra or whatever keeps the man you want from being dazzled by a
bimbo it's well worth it.]
and yet in another (as directed to men), it says:
But don't pretend you're rich if you aren't. There's nothing cheesier than a poser.
So why is it okay for a woman to be a poser, but not a man?
(Now, can he figure out who I am based on the above without looking up my user info? :)
I've just been reading through the article, and one thing which kinda bugs me all the way through is the insistence that it's the man who should be doing all the running. Now, that doesn't square with my own experience - I wound up hunting down my particular (geek) guy, and dragging him off to my cave all by myself. He didn't actually notice the little hints I was dropping (okay, okay, small boulder-type hints) until I finally winched up my courage to squeaking point, and gave him a card saying that I thought he was attractive and sexy.
The guy doesn't have to do all the running. Sometimes, it's actually more attractive to find a guy who *isn't* out to get a girl straight off, who *doesn't* notice the hints, and the tips, and who is thoroughly surprised and stunned by the eventual (mutual) seduction.
Possibly I'm weird, though.
Perkin's Postulate: Online tech support is designed to provide everything short of actual help.
Netslaves seems to refuse connections made via junkbusters, so I won' be reading. I don't always use junkbusters, but I insist on the choice.
--
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
never mind - lost my junkbuster process due to (infrequent) reboot.
--
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Did you actually read the whole thing? He clearly states the difference between casual sex and romance, insists that everyone be honest and on the same page. I don't think it objectifies women at all. I think it just says that they might be people who (gasp) like sex and (gasp) are attracted to guys who are fit and/or humorous and/or successfull, and (gasp) don't approach every single relationship with the idea that it must culminate in marriage.
--
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
What happened to conking her on the head with
a club and dragging her back to the cave?
--- even the safest course is fraught with peril
I smell an O'reilly book deal in the works: Women in a Nutshell
...and I admire him for that. ESR makes us read his writings, as he made us read the "Cathedral". First he makes some fun (and has fun, obviously) talking about how we could be more sexy, but it's only in the last three chapters that he gets to the core. Does noone ask the question: Is having a sexual relationship with a random, good looking girl really what we want? Is this about "looking sexy" in the end, about "getting chicks into my bedroom"? Or, rather, how do I find out which of the tremedous amount of good looking females is the right for me to hold me in her arms when I'm tired? Of course, the main reason of us being here is reproduction... sure. .sig...
It's the last chapters that are really interesting, and really important. Read them.
And don't care about my
This sig is stolen from someone who had a much better idea than I had.
I don't know if this is supposed to be a april's fool (or whatever you call it in english), but don't throw it all away...
There is one single factor that matters when it comes to being successfull with the oposite sex: sef-confidence.
Now, this is not very easy to get if you're low on it, but it is a decisive factor, no doubt in my mind...
It is also a thing that differs from situation to situation, as you may INSIST you are right when it comes to the best way of doing an linked list in C++ for a specific app, but when it comes to the ladies, you may fall down of the high place pretty quick. (mey depend on what part of the body we are thinging of...*cough*...no sorry...)
But hey, fellow geeks: build up that self-confidence if you lack it. And the article has a point to say that you may actally work up you self-confidence with starting on "easy targets"... (moderatly pretty people whom you don't fear)
- Knut S.
May just be me being lame
PS: sex is not nessesearily the only thing to look for you know... (=
www.nerdyboy.com/lifestyle has had the Dating Guide For Geeks for a couple of years now.
January
I believe that changing people's hearts is the key to preventing rape (and every other human problem). Here is some material your mom may want to use when she speaks.
What is Love? (Warning! For "prudes" only.)
- Love is patient - calmly enduring problems
- Love is kind - considering others first
- Love is not jealous - not upset when date gives attention to others
- Love does not brag - does not try to impress others
- Love is not arrogant - not conceited or cocky
- Love does not act unbecomingly - not rude or disrespectful
- Love does not seek its own - not selfish
- Love cannot be provoked - does not get angry or lose one's temper
- Love keeps no record of wrongs - not resentful, forgives easily and sincerely
- Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness - does not have fun doing wrong
- Love rejoices in truth - has fun doing right
- Love bears all things - supportive, encouraging during troubles
Based on 1 Corinthians 13What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?
Choose now...
I respect your opinion. I do think that you misinterpreted this statement though.
When he is talking about "casual sex" and prudes, he is referring to the Christian church and it's followers, not females. Don't take everything so personally - this was obviously not written for or against you.
Rape is at an epidemic scale, in fact my mom has been a leader in speaking out against such things. However, this is not because of "male dominant attitudes", but because of underlying social problems. In fact, Hollywood has picked up on this and exploit it regularally. Abuse of one sex is always a social problem though. I would enjoy seeing a society where sexes are equal, but I doubt it will happen. Our instincts are to conquer and destroy all who threaten power.
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll" --The Programmer's Digest
"Hex, Bugs, and Rockn'Roll"
If you are not a nice guy work on yourself or try to make the girl you are with pregnant ASAP. This highers your chance that she stays with you even so you are an a*hole.
Good lord. I seriously hope that either you were on crack when you wrote this or it was some vague attempt at humor. If a guy is not a nice guy, first off, he'll never ADMIT he's not a nice guy. Even if people tell him. Secondly, assuming he did admit it, you CERTAINLY shouldn't advise him to go around spreading his diseased genes around our gene pool. And lastly, bringing a real live human being into this world simply for the purpose of keeping trailor trash betty around for another year is wreckless and not fair to anyone, especially the kid! Sheesh.
Shayne
Today I didn't even have to use my AK; I got to say it was a good day -- Icecube
I beg of you, do not read ESR's Sex Tips. I was plauged for months afterward with dreams (nightmares, if anything) of ESR... (shocking!)... with no clothes... (scary!)... doing sexual things! (Now I'm scarred for life!)
It's worse than goatse.cx, I swear. the tips themselves are fine, but the thought of ESR and -- *shudder*
--
--
I like to watch.
Wash up, good manners, be confident, be clean, listen (but dont pretend to listen), be responsive, be athletic, bathe, respect the opposite gender, and ... did I mention wash up?
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
If so, you may be taking dating advice from guy
Damn good answer. Someone mod this up.
les femmes trouvent le francais supercool.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
I thought Gale was actually very cute...
.. Which is what the article says, too! And they even give you some basic advice how to get started!
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Is this for Geeks or Rednecks?
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
All you need to do is make them think that you know French. Say something that sounds like french and mumble it softly. Gets them everytime.
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
Can you believe, I've sent this article to /. leadership to make an editorial, but they refused to publish it! :-(
...
Maybe, I need to become another ESR before they do that
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
I've found Treatise of Love more than a year ago in Russian. The quaity of the English translation was really bad then, but now it's reasonably acceptable.
This Treatise looks at the process of mating among humans through ETHOLOGY that is the science about instincts. It explains pretty well a lot of "love stories" from the literature and geek problems with the opposite sex as well as my personal experience (both negative and positive). Besides that, it has some practical recommendations for both men and women.
However, the Treatise was originally written in Russian, so it might be somehow alien to the English speaker. For example, position of author on adopted children is not what most people in modern American society would think.
When reading the Treatise, have in mind George Costanza and Kramer as the brightest illustration to the difference between cornet and captain described in the Treatise I've found in the contemporary American subculture so far.
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
Is it always the man's responsibility to make the first move? Women are missing out on a great deal of nice guys by standing in the corner and hoping that something will happen. How many single men would react like a lot of single women - with obnoxious scorn? At worst you'd get a smile and an apology for not being interested. The problem isn't just with men being shy, it's also knowing that 90-95% of the time the girl will be rude or offhand, which can get frustrating after a while.
Damn! There *is* a howto. Lost one excuse
(-% TwistedMind %-)
Like: don't rape, because you wouldn't want to be raped. Most people don't have any trouble following that one.
The United States is a RAPE PRONE society. "Most" people may not have this problem, but it's still epidemic because of the social impression that men are supposed to be dominant and agressive, which this article supports. More than too many of my close female friends have been victim of this sort of activity. I've been a part of Rape Awareness coalition, and it IS F*CKING EPIDEMIC.
Take a look at: RAINN: It's amazing just how bad it is.
Prudes jump right from this one to "never have casual sex"
Let's just use inflamatory language here. Yea, so if a girl wont screw you on the first date she must be a prude. Language like this leads to "dominant male" attitudes towads women.
Articles like this are interesting, becuase I think it's important for "geeks" to become more social than they often seem to be now. Social does not equal sex. Sex can become something that happens when you're social, and his points to be safe and thoughtful are great. However it's still full of all the old sexist stereotypes that I would hope the more intelligent (?) readers of Slashdot would be able to pick up.
C-out
- Sighuh?
I was tryig to adress that girls-go-for-a*holes-problem. It does exist, I have seen it I it occured to that at least some, not all! seem to need that experience. A former girlfriend of mine kept asking me really strange questions (I really don't want to repeat), because she couldn't believe that I didn't do the stuff her ex did. I don't know why. I hve argued with girls a lot about this. In the end some even admitted that some of their best friends had that go-for-the-that-treats-me-worst-problem or still have. I have a friend who got dumped for a drug dealer that left her with a kid. He (the dealer that is) just knocked on her door. The kid already called my friend daddy. I don't want any girl to make that experience! I was trying to adress that twisted wiered whatever problem in an little humerous way. Don't take everything serious. I thought that got clear when I was talking about targets.
OK you didn't get it. It was meant ironic. As you stated, it is very unlikly for an a*hole to realize it and become a nice guy (but I have seen in on TV ;-). Some really do, but they don't even appear in the statistics (group too little). So I was getting into it a little to bad I guess. It was meant to spice the whole thing up with a little humour. Sorry if I offended anybody. I can see why.
OK I am not a geek. But I know some geeks and I get really impressed by most of them, because of their brains. Don't mail me I am male!!! Strangely the first person I met in person apart from LUGs that could make a decent Linux install was a girl! Her looks are really sweet. She studied computer science, can code, writes Tex... Even tries her own port of Linux to some wiered DEC platform. As I stated I am not a geek and therefore can't even code decently. Btw, she already has a nice boyfriend, now chance! Now to your problem. Most male geeks I know don't have girlfriends. This applys also to some other guys I know (I currently don't have a girlfriend either). The problem is not limited to geeks and not all geeks have that problem. The real question should be how to get singles together. Also you really shouldn't focus on getting laid. Sex in a realtionship involving love and trust can be so much better!! So focus on getting a girl. Now if you are a nice person any girl that really gets to know you and has had some experience with a*holes should be a target. Unfortunatly not all girls have that experience. Some go for nice guys naturally, but not all. If you are not a nice guy (go ask someone to be honest, is you are nice. best would be someone who doesn't like you. Yourself or your friends are not a reliable source on that, because they tend to focus too much on your qualities). If you are not a nice guy work on yourself or try to make the girl you are with pregnant ASAP. This highers your chance that she stays with you even so you are an a*hole. Back to the nice guy: Now you know you are smart (geek) and a nice guy. Go for any tips how to meet girls. On the Internet the ratio is very bad. Try focussing on places where you have better chances. Get yourself some nice clothes (again ask somebody else what they think you should wear best would be a girl in the same social cirlces / age group that you want your girlfriend to be) Shower! Shave! Hairdresser! (if you want your girfriend to do that you should do that, too. Fair is fair) Hardest part is going up to girls and talk to them. Don't focus on anything other than to get to know girls for the sake of it. As you talk to them you learn more about them and maybe someday you girl is among them and you already have build enough confidence to not embarres yourself. Sounds like a lot of work? Consider the benefit. Someday a lifelong partner. No worries about getting someone any more and you can finally focus on geek things again. Try not to forget your girlfriend though.
ESR's article has the same advice, interestingly enough...
-----
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Obviousness is always the enemy of correctness. -- Bertrand Russell
However, it doesn't have the pedigree of the Raymond peice. A quick sample:
This is the logic of "geekboy dating":
+ Want someone
+ Can't get them immediately (at all)
+ Declare that you don't want them after all
+ Repeat
If that reads like shampoo instructions, you're getting the picture. If you think that's normal or healthy, you're missing the point.
Definitely worth a read
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
This article has a few tips that I would agree with, but please don't base your entire dating strategy off of it. For me, I love computer geeks (more specifically, my computer geek.) I find his ability to learn and to apply it to something practical is much more attractive than the stereotypical "hunk" who walks around without his shirt. From my experience, those types of males tend to attract the more shallow women; those who only care for looks. I would bet that most geeks would prefer a woman who can carry on a decent conversation, so bulking up and showing off your body isn't necessarily the way to go for you. Intelligence and its applications are the best way to attract intellectual females.
I also don't agree with the long hair comment made on the "How To Be Sexy" page. Long hair can be nice on a few males. A selective few, IMO. It definately isn't the be all and end all of sexiness.
On the other hand, I agree that it is incredibly sexy when men take what they have and "clean up," even just a nice pair of khakis and clean shirt.
mmm...physics...
Also consider the grocery store. Ask your mom (if you're still at their house - it's not an insult, I live next door to my parents) for her shopping list, pick stuff up. Cute chicks are drawn to young guys with full shopping carts.
You probably won't like this one, but look around for a religious meeting place. Churches are great places to meet women, most of them are young and single. A tip from a professing young single Christian: avoid like the plague both "singles" classes (eg religious meetmarkets) and Bible-thumping congregations (oddly, a good many SBC congregations do not fall into this group). Put on your good manners for the older crowd, smile, talk with the seniors there (LEARN from them, things are not as different now as both you and them might think - some most relevant advice I've received is from an older person wistfully recalling a story about how things were so different back in the day).
Do you really have to have a woman who knows computers? Can't she just have a positive vague opinion of them? Diversity in a relationship is a good thing, IMHO.
Even if you don't find the kind of chick you're looking for in these circles, don't hesitate to make friends, take a female or two out for dinner or something. Girl WILL spread the word that you're a nice guy, and networking is a good thing. It seems that girls instinctively try to hook people up. Once they know what a nice guy is looking for, they will begin to do the searching and interviewing for him. Don't be surprised when they pointedly parade their single, intelligent friends before you.
funny munging
You really have to change just to get a girl??, i don't think so... I,as a geek, don't feel the urge to really really need a girl, in contrast to some of my none geekisch friends who also don't have a girl... It would be a surpluss, but if it would mean i would have to leave my pc yust to spend time with her, then rather not... Why do so many people think that geeks don't have a girlfriend just because they don't know how to get one, i don't have one, just because i'd rather spend my time (and money) in my pc than in someone i know for certain wcould never be the right one... i just don't need one that only consumes my time thats all. if only my friends would undertand this in place of trying to push me to get a girl
Watching for pupil dilation considered harmfull.
Movie at 11.
--
I only post to slashdot when I'm sleep deprived.
"My religion is to live --and die-- without regret." -- Milarepa
Evolutionary biology teaches us that humans being, like other animals, are adaptive machines; "feels good" is simply instinct's way to steer us towards behaviors that were on average successful for our ancestors.
That statement indicates that he does not understand evolution. We are not the "average" of what came before. Each of us has a very distinct lineage. "feels good to us" represents some particular gene's survival strategy that has worked so far, not for us, but for that gene.
Erroneous belief in evolution is very widespread, and that's ironic because it is particularly silly to call creationists "ignorant" from a position of ignorance. Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene" is a great way to get educated.
dude, I didn't say it wasn't a real reaction, I said thinking about it is having your mind on the wrong things. And you've brought us to lesson two: in a mating/dating/meeting situation do not jump in to argue the merit of scientific claims, and particularly, do not use science fiction as an example of anything.
... or maybe the bright light is behind you?
the sort of advice he dispenses indicates exactly why geeks should not think to hard about trying to pick up girls. if you are measuring her pupils, you are not in the game.
Wow, this is good advice. Anybody know where I can get a Klingon-French dictionary? I'm going to make her shiver...
Nr one for instance works on us geek chix! Dateing non-geeks is way to complicated! Geek-girl alreadly spoken for.
erics article is very close to reality!
Maybe not for directly getting sex, but for the human relationship game generally.
Dale Carnegie
How to win friends and influence people Just to mention that one is from 1930 and I believe it is still
... lost the connection - sry
Dale Carnegie How to win friends and influence people.
Just to mention that one is from 1930 and I believe still in time. What he done was researching what "big" people like Roosevelt did, then giving classes and writing his own textbook for that classes - you will actually find homework in that book !
And if the content is not for you, then I might mention that I had already 3 good chat-ups telling woman about it...
Woo hoo! I'm halfway there!
A friend of a friend recently bought a 911.
Friend #1 to Friend #2: "Do chicks like your new car?"
Friend #2 to Friend #1: "Other guys notice my new car. Chicks don't notice."
Hee hee...
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
Personally, I wouldn't find a liter of grey tissue sexy. Firstly, Why are the tissues grey? have they been used? and secondly why is there a liter of them? Why are you using a fluid measure for discrete objects. Unless of course they were all wet... Eugh.
Uh.. wasn't this LOTD at userfriendly a few days ago? oh well.. we can never have too many geeks breeding.. (without it, who will play D&D when we're gone?)
Honesty and being nice are the best two things a geek can do to attract females.
Be honest about everything and be yourself (except for the geek talk -- DON'T talk about computers constantly). I guess that kinda depends on who "yourself" is but it usually works best compared to the macho idiots that most non-geeks (and some geeks, sadly) pretend to be.
Don't be afraid to say "I'm a computer geek" but make sure to mention that you're more than that.
- Women are gold-diggers. It's all about the bottom line, which I can actually respect.
- Women want to be treated badly. Ignore them. Tell them how attractive their other female friends are. Get real drunk and humilate them while hitting on everything in sight. They LOVE it! It gives them something to complain about. Guys who respect women and are nice to them are BOR-ING!
- Intellegence is NOT sexy to women. It's scary.
- Size isn't everything, it's the only thing
;)
Nightclub fun:Going out to a night club? Here's guarenteed ways to hook up!
- Be at least 6' 6", own a leather jacket, be prepared to discuss your new SUV and your position at the GaP at length.
- Write 10 digits on a napkin, give it to a girl. She doesn't want your phone number? That's not your phone number, that's your net worth. Compare and contrast the results of differn evenings.
There are, of course, exceptions. I know a few myself. (in fact they're among others on their way over for a big drunken cookout) Feel free to disagree, but this is what I've learned. Besides, we don't have to agree for me to be right. =)end communication
Another guy says he's his twin...now we have triplets. I'd say you're preaching to the choir here, but apparently not...Someone pass this man the door prize, he's right on. Hell, I may even archive this message for later. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
I get out of my seat and go take a shit all my life! Still haven't gotten laid. Hell, forget shit, most girls I know don't even like fart jokes!
Oh, come on now... We all know that ESR ranks in the pantheon of hot Ubergeeks... Not as cute as Linus, granted, but... :) You must be (what else?) a heterosexual male...
/.... Hmm... Then again, I'm not liable to go around fantasizing about hot Ubergeeks (or even peeking at Unixsex (bleah!)). I have other people to think about. :)
But this is
Interrobang, BGGIT
That's "Bodacious Geek Girl In Training"
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
OMG. It never fails to amaze me. I was there... making out "girls" to be the holy grail.
Last things first -- judge women on the same scale as you judge men. These ideals concern honor, goals, direction, methods and manners, tactics and all that stuff. How on EARTH do you expect to live with someone (long term) that you cannot identify with. And never fall back on "well? she's a woman? what can you expect?" You have already disrespected women by expecting less from them. Expect more and get more. Also, never let her become a "weight" in your life. When you see signs of this occuring, take measures to remedy or just bail...but let her know about it before-hand...give her a fair chance to straighten out and if she's smart, she will and you'll both be happier people for it.
First things last -- NEVER worry about long-term relationships. If a relationship is going to last, then the chemistry and other random circumstances will fall into place to make it happen. NEVER worry about how much time you have "invested" in her. (*DO* worry about how much money you have spent on her however.) If she is going to use you, make sure you get what you want from her too...keep it equal. (the exception is when use becomes abuse -- in that case, make sure abuse from you is mental rather than physical...it's harder to be put in jail and the damage is longer lasting.)
NEVER EVER EVER get hooked up with the first girl you have sex with. Women are NOT the holy grail... it gets old eventually though you never stop needing it. So you damned well better make sure you have something to talk about between sessions.
If you hate me for saying this, you're either a woman or you're a pussy-whipped male likely raised exclusively by your mother. I make no apologies, because I was once the second category before I started to really figure things out. And for the record, most of the time, I get more than I know what to do with now... I don't know why exactly but I can advise you to simply go with your instincts and it helps to have a sense of humor.
Hasta, fellow geeks...
Anybody scored with that one yet?
Huh? No?
I knew you would say that. It's a plot. Hollywood wants all of us to behave stupid... then one day, they sneak in and snatch all our females!
Yes... and finally I can write
"all your female are belong to us." - Hollywood
Yippee!
I thought you're supposed to "start digging"... not "doing shit"! My Gawd!
But the most important thing to do is get your appearance right, because that affects other areas:
- Take a photo of yourself on a typical day. This will be your "before" picture.
- Cut your hair short, so it looks neat and clean. This cut is low maintenance and is in style right now.
- Set aside about $1000 to play with-- for your new "gear."
- Contact a friend from college who had style and invite him/her to go shopping with you.
- Visit Skechers.com and get a pair of black boots.
- Dig out your best sport shirt and a nice pair of blue jeans from your closet. Wear contacts.
- Go to your local Nautica Store and pick out a few buttondown sport shirts and sweaters that you like. Get some khakis and jeans too. Review them with your friend. About $300 should do it here.
- Go home, wear your new clothes for the next week, and be happy.
- Now that you look and feel better, go to Nordstrom the following week and get new Nordstrom socks, undershirts, CK underwear, a canvas clubbing jacket, dress shirts, maybe a leather jacket, and a nice belt. You already have a kickass pair of shoes, but another pair couldn't hurt.
- You might consider going into "The Rail" at Nordstrom and asking them their advice, since those people usually have a clue.
- Take a photo of yourself a week later, and compare it with "before." I'll bet you changed a whole lot.
Most importantly, keep in mind that these changes are gradual and that there is no instant solution. I was hopeless until I went shopping with my friends, and since then I have had an eye for good clothing. It's not that I'm shallow, it's just that knowing you look good is the biggest self-confidence booster. You also have to look in the right places. Bars are ok when you go with friends, but if you are alone then work is probably the best place, especially if you work in a large company with a lot of young available females. If you think in terms of marketing-- selling yourself to potential customers-- you are on the right track. Have confidence and be whatever you want to be.
Is he more of a mans man then?
Raymond's writeup is borderline scientific babble. Need something more practical?
s eduction.html
http://www.pickupguide.com/gallery/miscgoodstuff/
ICEPHREAK
HOW TO GET BABES -- A GUIDE FOR GEEKS
Show them your T1 lines and your modifications to the Linux kernel -- they'll be very impressed.
Grunt when they say anything to you -- remember, avoid eye contact at all costs.
Never leave your home -- any babes worthy of your attention will come knocking on your door.
Surf the net for porn, so you know what real women should look like.
Test whether they really love you; never, ever shave or shower.
Don't exercise -- the weak, pudgy mess that you are will evoke maternal feelings of sympathy.
If they talk to you, it means that they love you.
Remember, girls always prefer email to real mail.
Sitting three seats behind them on the bus is a good start.
Become a billioniare -- trade money for babes.
Write the next, killer software app -- your fame will draw them to you.
Remember, what's cool to your geek friends is cool to babes too.
Make them understand that you are more evolved than that hunky football star.
Declare that you are homosexual -- that never fails to interest them; pounce when guard is down.
Babes always go for the stronger man -- duke it out over a game of Quake.
Write a geeky web page.
Use mnemonics to aid communication e.g. Hello == main(){, Goodbye == }
Increase your "reproductive fitness" -- become the Alpha geek of your pack
The woman you're talking to on the net really is female and most likely a babe -- and remember, cybersex is as good as real sex.
chix dig us
360 degrees of Karma
dont u guys think ESR has got nothing better to do than write this kind of shit?
and if i read that shit, i am even worse. poojyum
Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down there, Cowboy!
You have to talk to girls and ask them out before you can have them over for pizza with a condom in the drawer.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
Those are two implants I'm glad the doctor didn't remove.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
I'm sure 80% of the male population would be Bill's love slave to get a piece of that cash.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
With the crossover between the Neo-Pagan community and the geek community, I think it's impossible to separate...that said, I've been in polyamorous/open relationships for the past decade, though I'm tired of it and now dating just *one* amazing woman - so I don't know whether I'm a yes or no....
"Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top. " - Edward Abbey
A difficult question I've been asked is "Why are you single?" and so far I've only found one honest answer: "I'm more fussy than I am attractive" - brutal but true. You see, I have met women with whom I've fallen head over heals in love - and since the age of 16, have been sufficiently confident to ensure at the very least a "date". Unfortunately, on every (easily countable) occasion so far, things were not "meant to be" and I'm convinced that no action on my part could reverse the inevitable tragic result. You see, when I'm convinced that I want a feminine non-smoking brunette librarian who's interested in fine art, wines and architecture - I'm unlikely to find such a person without her own similarly stringent expectations... and if they're as resrtrictive as mine, the concequences of Bayesian theory don't bear thinking about... especially as these days I seldom meet a new person, let alone a new woman, given the unfortunate technology skew and my own long hours.
A year or so ago I joined a local dating agency - and my friends thought that this was well worth while, purely because they enjoyed the stories which made most mainstream comedy seem pretty lame. I met about half a dozen women before I failed to renew... As a dual consequence of my wanting to avoid legal action and my own failing memory, I'm inventing the names of the most memorable liaisons: Terrible Tracy sat with me outside her favourite pub - I realised something was wrong when she insisted on staring at a fence post for half an hour - I'm not sure if she was more bored or boring - sort of pretty - but absolutely no cerebral activity - It respires, but its not life as we know it. Then there was Nancy, the Nazi Nanny, who sticks in my mind for making it quite clear that she believed that children should be beaten as a matter of course... which I just had to take seriously as she continued to murmur right-wing propaganda through her grubby chunky jumper. Of course I shouldn't forget Slobby Suzie, whose resounding line was "You're too classy for me!" I have to admit that I hope I was. I refrained from verbalising that a bag of cut price, extra lard chips and a quick shag behind the bus shelter was probably too classy for her. My final example is Ladette Lucy, and we just can't go there - it was set up that we should meet in a bar, but as soon as Lucy entered the room I was convinced she was male... It is my hunch that Lucy was actually in the early stages of trans-sexual changes... I had no wish to investigate further... so bluffed for an hour, keeping a careful emotional and physical distance, then left. With that my brush with random blind dates came to a close...
These days, I think I can safely say that a different approach is required. A change of social circle would be good - my neighbours are great people, but are all drawing pensions. The females in my local pub are attached, double my age or uninspiring (though rarely all three) and at the office I'm surrounded by "Geeks" - a phrase I use loosely in the most affectionate of ways. So my "ask slashdot" has to be for suggestions as to where to meet fantastic women considering my intense distaste for most sport (or conversely - where would women look for someone fantastic like me?) So far I've considered Salsa dancing (Pro: Inverse gender skew Con: I dance like a pregnant duck suffering from a bad hair day) and a local humanist society (about which I know very little) ...or... has anyone had dates turn out to be bigger prunes?
Check out Linus' wife. He obviously knows something.
"If there is nothing you are willing to die for, then you are not really alive." Myself
We could all get together, and write about 5 or 6 manual pages on interesting topics as "sex tips for geeks", etc. Allowing the eager user to type "man sex" and learn the lost art of the geek.
The guys that are actually getting laid value their gender relations skills, and practice them as frequently as possible. They learn from their mistakes, and they gain confidence. Confidence is extremely sexy.
It is ridiculous to believe that a geek is going to treat a woman better simply because he is more intelligent than the attractive lawyer Corvette guy. How can you conduct a smooth, productive and fun relationship if you have no experience in the matter? Being intelligent is far from the most critical component in how you treat a woman.
The most dated attitude portrayed here is the idea that a woman isn't capable of judging a potential mate for herself.
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
YOU!! Yes, you! GET OUT!!
You obviously don't belong around here.
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
-Keslin, the naked nerd girl
There are a couple of basics every guy should know. You want to take on the body language of relaxation and confidence -- so speak softly, and move gracefully and deliberately. Use the lower end of your normal vocal range; high notes come from a tense throat.
/me winks and walks gracefully away, swaying his hips in his pink armour... (that'll get her *wink* *wink*)
This is what I have been saying for ages. Grace is the key. This is why you will see me at parties walking around gracefully, like a ballerina, in my pink armour. I also tend to speak softly, but in a low low voice... It really turns them on. "Hey baby... wanna dance?"
Something that ESR didn't mention, but should be included is something that Linus, in all his wisdom, knows without even thinking about it... wear a paper hat.
All your vagina are belong to ESR!
Slashdot: Open Source, Closed Minds.
I'll address the second issue first. Most geeks I know are well described by the word 'gentle'. I don't know if they'd be best pleased by that description, but I like it. They'd never knowingly hurt anyone. They're often shy around girls they don't know - which means, once a girl decides she's happy with one, she need not fear his eyes turning elsewhere. The tendency to faithfulness and the rarity of arsehole-hood combine well with the geekly earning potential.
Of course, this perception of mine might be entirely biased by the fact that the geeks I know are my friends; and I wouldn't stay friends with people who I thought were likely to be arseholes. Still, I think it does generalise. Many geeks are fundamentally nice people; perhaps a little vague, often not terribly worldly, but rarely actively nasty.
The most common geekly faults are, as ESR mentioned, an obliviousness to personal appearance, and a tendency to breathe computers. The first is relatively easily addressed; keep clean and wear clothes without holes. The second is a bit harder; you have to go out and acquire another interest, something else to talk about.
The 'additional conversation topic' is important. I spent years listening to geekly conversations. I got throughly bored; never learned enough to participate, often felt left-out. Most intelligent women like to be involved in conversations, oddly enough!
The Society for Creative Anachronism might be a good place to start, being (in my experience) inclined to welcome newcomers, encompassing a wide range of activities, most of which are accessible to non-experts, and containing a somewhat higher proportion of young women than of young men.
Is it worth it? Well - if you, like the person to whom I reply, think that spending time away from the computer isn't worth the rewards, then obviously it isn't. What would the 'right person' do for you? Sex in the evenings and fresh coffee (and other meals) during the day? Hmm, I wouldn't want to be that other person; if you'd rather spend your time with your computer than with your lover, you stay right there in front of your computer, and everyone will be happier that way!
My love gets it. I'm a good cook and a good masseur. I can contribute something towards discussions of algorithms, and code in two languages myself. He's a reasonable cook and a good masseur, and will try new things and encourage me to try new things. We do spend quite a bit of time in front of computers (often playing (different) games side by side), but we spend just as much time doing other things together. It doesn't seem to occur to my partner to regret that the time is not spent in front of the computer; we're (usually) having fun.
Which is probably something most geeks should be trying to do: have fun while not using computers. Especially while on a date; enjoy the activity for itself, and the company, and anything else that may come of it is a bonus.
Rachel
I just don't have any common interests with 95% of girls. Therefore I have nothing to talk about with them, and I don't even get to use these sex tips I've all but memorized. I think I'm attractive. I bathe (at least every 2-3 days). I even do some ocean kyacking. I just can't seem to find a girl because the only places around here that girls may be found are clubs. I hate house music. The only girls I've found that are even remotely intelligent, and interested in computers are fat, ugly, hairy, and mean. In South Carolina... there just isn't that much of a geek-chick population.
Anyone got some tips? Places that might be cool to hunt for a chick?
-EvilMonkeyNinja
a.k.a. Joseph Nicholas Yarbrough
Security Grunt by Day
Programmer by Night
-EvilMonkeyNinja
Mild Mannered Host by Day
Wild Hammered Programmer by Night
Can someone explain to me why a search for "The Ethical Slut" on Amazon.com gave me a link to The Korn Shell Linux and Unix Programming Manual? :)
Coevolution or no evolution.
haha true.
What the hell was ESR doing reading this stuff anyway?
Excuese me... I've seen ESR speak in person, and lets just say that he's not quite the ladies man the article would have you believe. Not exactly the man I'd take sex tips from.
__________________________________________
Take comfort in your ignorance.
__________________________________________
Take comfort in your ignorance.
Grandmaster Plague
Just cause you pulled last night! Give it a week or so, you'll be back to a pathetic nerd like the rest of us.
The frightening thing is ESR's complete objectification of women. When will people stop putting up with these stone age attitudes, and start demanding that women be treated as if they were actual human beings?
Goat sex!
blah blah blah i think unless you get out there and actually start doing shit, you will not learn a thing. you can read outta a book all day, but unless you actually start trying you aint got a thing!
Truth is, maybe women don't find brains attractive, but men find brains in women attractive. Why d'you think Seven of Nine gets so much attention? Sure, she has a great body but so do a lot of other actresses out there. Her character makes her more attractive. If you ever saw Jerri Ryan in person or out of character (I have) you'd think of her less as "Seven of Nine" and more of a bimbo who can act well. The real Jerri Ryan never even used to watch Star Trek (too nerdy for her) until she hired on! My point is (not to try to be sexist) but there aren't that many genious women out there.. The ones that are look like men or worse. A woman who is both a genious and a gorgious babe is a rare thing indeed, and very much sought after.
although I hear it happens to all men at somepoint in their lives...
Excuse my laughing - I'm still trying to get over the premise that slashdotters actually *have* sex.
"Right. But sex is powerful stuff." I took that from the sex and cons. section of the geek sex tips post. upon first reading it, I first thought it said "Butt sex is powerful Stuff." see why we don't put conjunctions at the begining of sentences?