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What To Do With Old DSL Modems?
"Details:
My tale of DSL woe: I was an early DSL customer in Houston, and had an ADSL line from PDQ.net for a year and a half using an Alcatel DSL modem (#1) before moving to Atlanta. In Atlanta, I signed up for PhoenixDSL which used Northpoint to provision an SDSL line for me using a 3com modem (#2). Then Phoenix's business was bought by Megapath, who then sold the consumer accounts like mine to Telocity.
I was migrated by Telocity two months ago, and they sent their own "Telocity Gateway" (#3). Of course, when Northpoint kicked the bucket, my Telocity connection went down. After four weeks of stringing me along (including promises to have me back up in three weeks), they've just informed me that they can't provide me service through an alternate provider, so I'm on my own and have yet another useless (?) DSL modem. Turns out that BellSouth is the only other DSL circuit provider in my CO and their DSLAM is full so they won't be able to service me until October at the earliest. AT&T's here installing a cable modem right now. So what can I do with all this DSL stuff? From what I've experiened, most DSL providers provide their own equipment, but is there a market for used modems? The Telocity gateway looks hackworthy... I remember reading somewhere that it runs Linux internally, and there are some interesting ports and markings on it (like "for use with X10 modules"). Has anyone torn into one of these things?"
I would like to know what the heck I could do with the unused DSL modems! Anybody buying them outhere? ;-) AT&T?
Anyone know if it's possible to get a Westell Wirespeed DSL modem to work with Linux? Or better still how to do it...
Is this how the markets work to the benefit of the consumer?
N0 1t's n07! W3 1s b13in6 w@y 31137 hax0rs and back eng1n33r1n6 tha s7uff t0 kn0w h0w 17 w0rx. Y0u @r3 dumb.
Actually, a point-2-point T1 does not require all hat hardware. A dry copper drop will work just fine if you have the right hardware. At work we use a T1 Cross-over cable (Wiring scheme came from cisco) which is just a fancy Cat-5 and use 2 2621s w/ WICs to lab network implimentations that include P2P T1s all the time. The confusion sems to come from the fact that the dry-pair solution does not give internet access or any access to an outside source at all. All the telco does is route the signal from one point to anoher.
When PacBell started rolling out DSL in my area, they were careful to call the devices "bridges". Then someone smart (like Rager-vs-Machine) who understood what was going on clued them into the fact that the devices were tecnically "modems". So they switched all their marketing material.
Besides in a world where people call their computers "the hard drive", any little thing that doesn't confuse the lusers helps.
;)
You could always do something like this: http://nerdsrus.com/projects/pipelineclock/ -- turn them into clocks.
Don't use the Linksys dude. Don't anybody use the Linksys. I put a SmartBits tester on one in the Cisco lab where I work and it was dropping bits at less than a meg. Use the netopia or netspeed which can do 5 megs without dropping bits. Cisco makes neither. You might as well get the bandwidth you are paying for.
Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of dusty DSL modems RAMMED  UP YOUR ASS?!!!!
Port Linux (or NetBSD?) to your DSL modem. You then could use it as a small web server, firewall (it may already have this feature, but what fun is that?), cheap X terminal (if you can figure out how to hook a display up to it), or a host of many other things.
How about interfacing the modem to your toaster for the ulitmate net-connected toaster (which we all long for).
Non-profit Organizations like FreeBytes in Atlanta can use them. FteeBytes takes donated computer components and refurbishes them for other non-profit groups. This can help these groups get proper internet access (schools, Boys/Girls Club, etc.). Why not take a tax write off if you can't sell it? http://www.freebytes.org/
too bad. Verizon DSL is terrible (at least in my area). 2000+ ms ping replies from the gateway. Verizon knows it's their problem but refuses to do anything about it.
Perhaps people were fed up with poor customer service and dumped Verizon. Other poor bastards see this service advertised and hop on.
This is not a troll, Verizon has serious customer relations problems.. Not to mention problems with overselling bandwith and not caring that their customers are suffering.
If I bought it, I'd be stuck with an obsolete modem now.
Never buy NEW tech if you can lease it.
T1 is just a 1.5Mbps digital pair in each direction. All you need is a cross-over cable to connect two CSUs back-to-back. The problem with doing T1 over dry pairs is that you can't go very far at all - that's how telcos justify the big $$ for T1 - they have to install repeaters. These days, telcos minimize the use of repeaters by using broadband (HDSL?) from the CO to your NIU. You can do this yourself (without T1) if you're within the distance range for your DSL equipment. So a $500/mo T1 is almost the same circuit as a $30/mo point-to-point DSL - the difference being that with T1 you can go long distances and you can go between COs. Has anyone ever ordered a dry pair from Pacific Bell? I tried once - talked to a dozen of those numbskulls and none of them had heard of it.
You don't need a dslam, just rwo dsl modems. It's easy to do with netopia routers, they have a setting much like a crossover on a hub. Just order a dry pair - straight copper from point to point and plug in at both ends. With SDSL you can get some decent throughput. You can do a similar thing with T-1s, just get 2 dry pairs and wire correctly. This is a way to get a cheap ($15/month/pair connection.) Depends where you live for pricing, but still not bad. Much less than $300+ for a T1. Distances will limit you, but it's a great way to build a gorilla net. I know specifically about the netopia since I'm working for a former partner of northpoint and we had the router guy come by for a little show and tell. The netopias also do a bit of multiplexing, and you can put 2 cards in each one. so with 2 dry pairs you can get 2 lines running at 1.5mb each - 3.0Mb for $30 a month. Beat that!
If one of your DLS boxes has a DHCP server, find someone you don't like and attatch it to their network. Then hide it.
Well, there's always eBay or other auction sites. But, a better long-term solution could be to create a "Used DSL modems" website. You could list your own wares, of course, but also post ads from other buyers & sellers. Unless the participation was really high, you wouldn't even necessarily need a database backend -- you could probably just update the (static) html files manually.
P.S. I'm looking for a new job in Web Development. I invite you to check out my portfolio of hand coded HTML / JavaScript / CSS.
Alex Bischoff
---
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Posted by polar_bear:
:)
This one is my second...my first died about a month after I got service. I didn't wait for them to replace it, though - I drove to one of their service centers and got a replacement after the call tag that they promised never showed up. Qwest isn't one of my favorite companies...
I'm not sure if mine overheated or what, but the best bet is just take matters into your own hands if you can. Don't wait for good service from them - you won't get it.
Posted by polar_bear:
I'm located in Denver and I'm about to move to a location where it's quite likely that I will not be able to get DSL through Qwest - but I have it now.
The modem is a Cisco 675, does anyone know of any cool hacks for it? I'd like to turn it into a regular router if I can't get DSL - I already know I can have @Home. I'll probably get both if DSL is available (backup) but would like to have a plan for this modem otherwise. Qwest pretty much gives them away here, so I don't think reselling is much of an option.
I hate to see perfectly useful hardware go to waste, though.
Bridge/terminal adapter would probably be a more accurate term - but, like with ISDN terminal adapters and the ever-inaccurately-named "cable modems", average Joe knows it as a "modem", because it hooks his computer to the amorphous thing he knows as the Internet, and so that's what corporations are going to call them - just so the customer has some idea what they're talking about. Even though the use of the term is a complete misnomer, which anyone who knows what an actual modem does would understand.
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Can't you serially connect the T-1 thru a PC ? I have seen old serial connectors for T-1's but I've never used one so I dunno if this will actually work...
Are you talking about V.35? It's just a high speed synchronous serial port and pretty much a standard for WAN; Offhand I don't recall how fast it can go but it's damn fast and the damn connectors are expensive as hell. :-)
Wrong. You learn by getting trained by authorized professionals who know how a piece of hardware works. That way you also get a certificate showing to your potential employer that you really do know about something.
I'm afraid it's you who is wrong. I don't know how your post was moderated as insightful but that's the moderation system for you. The original poster was correct in how 90% of people learn things. They go the formal education route only to get a piece of paper or, more commonly, if they really don't want to learn but have the paper that says they do know.
Here's a fun excercise: pick a company or a field of endeavor. Count the number of degreed people who actually know what they're doing compared to those who don't know anything. Now count the number of people who have no degrees but know what they're doing and compare to those without a degree and know nothing. What percentage of degreed people know what they're doing compared to the percentage of non-degreed people? The answer is surprising if you haven't done it before and the explanation is simple: The degreed people got in because of the paper and maybe because they know what they're up to, while the nondegreed people can't get in if they don't know what's what.
People with degrees usually fetch a higher starting salary but after a few years the wheat is seperated from the chaff and the smart rise above, just as they do in practically everything. If you know what you're doing and can't get ahead, leave and find another company with clueful management. If nothing else you'll find out for sure if you know what you're doing or not. :-)
My career is relatively new (in its 7th year) but I have no need for that piece of paper saying I know what I'm doing. I'll get my degree to fill in holes in my education but aside from that... it's practically useless. The headhunters and subsequent interviewers I run across want to know is what I'm doing in my current job and what I've done before, not what I learned in school.
I've never said that doing it on your own is easier, but it was certainly the best route for me. I hear that places like Germany always refer back to your education no matter what your experience, so this post is definately geographically-tied.
Does anyone else find it completely annoying that these things, which neither MOdulate nor DEModulate, are getting called modems? It even says "DSL modem" on my Alcatel box. Aren't these things bridges? If you need a device to convert digital networking to analog, you don't have DSL!
Can't you serially connect the T-1 thru a PC ? I have seen old serial connectors for T-1's but I've never used one so I dunno if this will actually work...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
My buddy lives next door and has cable thru Astound. I have ADSL via Pac-Bell. Our bandwidth is almost the same, within 20-40kps during off hours, and my ADSL BLOWS AWAY HIS cable modem during peak hours. He cannot play Tribes on my server from 15:00 - 19:00 and we live 50 ft away.
***Warning : PAC-Bell's customer service is HORRIBLE. Unless you can install and set it up your self forget them as an ISP. I have been there 2 years and still have a static IP, but the only issue DHCP to home customers now I've heard.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
It has a backdoor left by the manufacturer. There was a CERT warning out regarding that model I believe.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I'll take a free cisco 675 any day.
and a phone line filter that actually works
would be worth ten bucks.
also, i'd rather end up with obsolete gear than
leasing it from the telco.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
New Zealand's 'lovely' telco has brought out a flat-rate 128k ADSL service called JetStart. However, you must purchase your own DSL modem. I don't know whether or not the ones you have would be compatible ... I don't really know how DSL works. .nz based auction site, are quite sought after. It might be worth a try. =)
However, I've heard that DSL modems sold on trademe, a
They're like gold dust over here. The encumbent
telco (BT) try to force everyone to use crappy
USB modems which hardly work (they draw something
like 500ma off the USB bus, which means they have
to be the *only* device on the bus... if they work
at all).
As long as it's smart enough to do PPPoA (no PPPoE over here) there's someone will pay for it.
Theres a Do-It-Yourself DSL website for DSL. Here.
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--
Insert Witty Sig Here
I'm pretty sure you mean "guerrilla" nets, not gorilla nets.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
He's right.. there does seem to be a large market for DSL equipment on Ebay. I'm wondering how many folks got a Covad rebate and are making money.
it's not going to stop until you wise up, no it's not going to stop. so just give up.
Others have posted about this being a self-contained net, so I won't go down that path.
I wanted to also bring up the possibility of one person having an ISP, then distributing that bandwith among a number of friends.
I have both a cable modem and DSL line at the moment, it would be great if I could distribute some bantwidth to some other friends houses (assuning they live close by).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's now simpler for Cable modems in the US. There is the DOCSIS standard - they even sell Cable modems at Best Buy here in Dallas !!! But I rent mine anyway - 50$ Total for @HOME - loved it since Day 1 ... GTE/Verizon ... They have sent me 2 Cable modems and my line is still hooked up - but nothing works. They cancelled the order but never asked for anything back or fixed anything.
Powers of Ten or The MegaPenny Project with DSL modems is no good for landfills. Scary part is how small these things are, and how many larger devices are tossed out every year.
Joe Maller
www.joemaller.com
Verizon previously used Orkitt modems and when I moved and they switched, I made them let me trade in my Orkitt for the Fujitsu; so I didn't get stuck with an old modem. I did, however, get a nice source of heat in my apartment during the winter...
IANAL, but I play one on
You're right, mine is by Orckit and just branded under Fujitsu. My old Orckit (that I traded in) was about twice the size and looked more like a hub or router or something. That thing was solid as a rock. This one disconnects if I tap it with my foot or squeeze the case or look at it funny (as did the two previous ones). It promptly reconnects, but where's the quality manufacturing anymore?
IANAL, but I play one on
I had an efficient networks speedstream 5260. I ran the manufacturer-discouraged firmware upgrade to make it into a 5660. This worked, mostly, but because I used the wrong revision, the upgrade introduced a two bugs: the modem locked up occasionally under high load, and could not be upgraded a second time.
So I bought a different modem on Ebay. Most DSL services these days use standard protocols, so the modems will work happily with other services. Many services charge users $300 for the modem when they sign up. If you have your own, you save that money. If you buy one from Ebay for $50, you save the remaining $250. Many ISPs toss in the modem, but not all.
Also, the speedstream is a 50 MHz PPC, and both the system firmware and "boot firmware" is upgradeable. Now that I've finally replaced mine, I want to try using the Embedded Linux PPC boot project to try to install linux on my modem.
"The simplest solution is to ignore your dead children."
The problem I get alot with my DSL when I get the quick disconnect isn't with the actual DSL link. It's with the verizon PPPoE authentication. Sometimes it will lose this authentication after the link retrains, and I have to reconnect the PPPoE link. I've build a simple wget script to connect to my router (seperate from the modem, it's something I bought to do NAT connection sharing) and reconnect the PPPoE link. This is a major pain in the ass though, when my roommate gets a call or something. We've both taking to using our cells for most calls we make just to avoid dropping our connection. I really miss when I had SDSL on a seperate wire pair. It was slower, but didn't disconnect 2-3 times a day
The problem I get alot with my DSL when I get the quick disconnect isn't with the actual DSL link. It's with the verizon PPPoE authentication. Sometimes it will lose this authentication after the link retrains, and I have to reconnect the PPPoE link. I've build a simple wget script to connect to my router (seperate from the modem, it's something I bought to do NAT connection sharing) and reconnect the PPPoE link. This is a major pain in the ass though, when my roommate gets a call or something. We've both taking to using our cells for most calls we make just to avoid dropping our connection. I really miss when I had SDSL on a seperate wire pair. It was slower, but didn't disconnect 2-3 times a day
Its probably running VxWorks. This doesn't stop you from trying to run Linux on it. What kind of PowerPC is it? IBM 403? Motorola PowerPC 823, 855 or 860? 8240? 8245? etc?
;)
If you know that information its actually pretty easy to get it booting Linux.. there are only a few ways those things are wired up internally.
4 MB Flash and 16 MB ram is more then enough to do something fun with it. Also if the 2 rj45's are wired directly to the CPU (depending on the PowerPC) you may be able to do ethernet on both instead of DSL.
Also the WindRiver bootloader, is very easily "adjustable" to load something else..
--Mark
When I was with USWest, I had a Cisco 675 which was great! It ran CBOS (Cisco Broadband OS), was a NAT, DHCP, TFTP and Telnet server.
After I switched to Verizon I sold it for $180.
Remember it, write it down, take a picture, I dont give a fsck!
I don't understand why americans can't get DSL and high speed internet access off the ground. I've had a cable connection at 29.95$ per months, for two years now. It is accessible to almost anyone in the province (Québec) and there is also a DSL connection which is about two times slower (about 150kbytes/sec), but still fast enough, and is promising to get even faster during the next year. I know you are ten times more in the US then in Canada, but man, are you lagging behind! And for your question, well you could still of course sell them on eBay. But you could also use it to sell your current internet connection to your neighborhs. ;-)
"The answer to the Question of Life, the Universe and Everything is... 42"
I'm surprised to hear that this is the case...
I work for a company that makes CO DSL equipment (not Alcatel) and am involved with testing a wide range of modems against our equipment -- including many of the modems you folks have been griping about. I would have thought that the providers could be more flexible about what modems to choose. I guess it is too "dangerous" or too difficult to support this way. Don't think there is really a huge technical reason though... as long as the CO side is ANSI or G.DMT (or lite) compliant, most modems will fall into these categories.
I had hoped to see DSL turn into something a little more like 56K modems... guess I'm too naive...
I'm an Atlanta ex-Pheonix ex-Megapath ex-Telocity person myself. Telocity just sent me a postage paid shipping form to send them their "Velocity Port" device back, else they'll want to charge me for it. I can understand... it can't have been too cheap to make, and they only ever got like $90 out of me before dying. That label from Telocity, though, came in a rather non-special looking envelope marked "DirecTV". So don't toss it...
And now I have (aside from the Telocity thing) TWO 3com SDSL modems and a spare Alcatel 1000 ADSL modem (still got Bellsouth ADSL).
You are correct sir. Don't throw away that shipping label they're sending you! (see my post right above yours)
HEY! after removing my Telocity thing, I find that I can get sync using one of my 3com SDSL modems. anybody got a clue what I can do with this?
Is there a URL with any details on the results from your interoperability lab? Or a description of what VC, VP stand for and might refer to? (And hints about how to find values for a DSL-ISP you are considering using?)
A few months before Northpoint's failure, I unloaded a spare FlowPoint 2200-16 SDSL router on ebay for $150. It's not even half what I paid for it (by being RAPED by PSN for NO service), but it softened the blow a bit.
Now, I feel kinda bad for the guy who bought it. Since it's designed to only work with Copper Mountain DSLAM equipment, he may have trouble using it with any other providers, as I don't know any other than Northpoint who used the Copper Mountain DSLAMs.
That's the one thing that's bad about all the incompatible DSL equipment out there. It's completely useless with another provider, unless they use pretty much exactly the same DSLAM as the previous provider did.
-- You have moved your mouse. Windows will now reboot.
I've had Telocity for a little over a year now. When I first got it, I attempted to figure out what it was running for an OS (BTW, all of the above can be determined without cracking open the case). Telnet to the modem on port 80 yields the following:
Trying 10.5.1.2...
Connected to 10.5.1.2.
Escape character is '^]'.
HTTP/1.0 504 N/A
Connection: close
Server: Expressway WindWeb/1.1
Date: SUN APR 29 09:13:53 2001
Content-Type: text/html
Telocity Expressway Web Server Error Report: V1.1<HR>
<H1>Server Error: 504 N/A</H1>
Operating System Error Nr:3997700: errno = 0x3d0004 <P><HR><H2>URL parsing error
</H2><P><HR>please mail problems to support@telocity.net <A HREF="mailto:support
@telocity.net"><ADDRESS> Telocity Communications Inc. 10355 N. De Anza Blvd. San
Jose, CA, 95014-2027</ADDRESS></A>
Connection closed by foreign host.
A google search leads to Wind River Systems (http://www.wrs.com) and implies that the modem is running VxWorks, not Linux (as the article submitter implied).
1) Door Stop 2) Weapon 3) Paperweight 4) Door knocker 5) Coaster 6) Build Franken-Machine with it 7) Mail it to your favorite congressman (C.O.D) 8) Melt it down to make the next leet case 9) Put it on railroad tracks 10)Use it as ballast when trolling for newbies.
I can see some uses for this things. If another person who has one and his burns out they can use it, even if you can't. I personally can't believe that some of these have PowerPC chips in them. I'd rather have that chip in a RS/6000! :)
Gorkman
Make a bong out of it.
I sold mine for $50 dollars. They will buy anything on that site. They will buy the boogers out of your nose. They will get into a bidding war for it.
Can anyone give me a URL fro setting this up? I've googled for it but foind nothing. I have a Westel Wirespeed dsl modem. (And about to lose service on it.)
Im the proud *sarcasm* owned of an Alcatel "1000 ADSL" modem. Cable comes May 3rd and with all my pain and downtimes with Ameritechs Highclass DSL......heh, I plan on throwning this modem all over my city untill I can't find pieces to throw. You can all have fun hacking your modems, but I'll have my revenge against DSL!!!
the G4 mac you use in the computer lab doesn't count as the University's supercomputer...
A trick I had to use with Pacific Hell:
Make the installer put service onto an old computer running Windows with no USB ports. Have an Ethernet card installed, of course. Don't even mention Linux at all. Close the door to your server room :-)
That way, they'll have to provide you with Ethernet-compatible equipment! And because you're running Windows, the tech won't be able to pull a lame excuse on you about not being able to support your connection.
Super eurobeat from Avex and Konami unite in your DANCE!
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
DSL modems are quite complex as modems go. Quite a bit of work goes into characterizing the channel, agreeing on parameters, and working around noise. Trying to get megabit data over legacy copper in tightly packed non-twisted pair cables is a non-trivial encoding job.
(Something I don't know is how ISDN separates the two directions of data sent over a single copper pair. Bandsplitting? Cancellation? Time division? Anybody know?)
I would think that the telocity brouter(it does both bridging & routing) seams to be largest of interest to me at least. I cracked mine open the first day I got it wanting to know what was inside! its a 50mhz PowerPC processor(no heat sync), 4MB FLASH ROM, and 16MB of ram. now remember, this thing also has a USB port and 2 rj45's(WAN/Local). I'd imagine(thinking creativingly) that you could make your own router/bridge running netBSD or possibly linux. right now netBSD has more platform support out there, and bsd would handle that little amount of ram much better then linux would. but yeah, see what you can do, there are also a couple of jumpers in there, probably for upgrading the firmware on it.
any people with info on this interesting piece of hardware with alcatel power please, do post it!
Privacy? Not in this lifetime.
I too have a used IDSL CopperRocket and an Impact IQ ISDN "modem" and a USR Sportster 128 ISA card. Best offer over $10 for any of them!
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
the damn things (DSL modems) are free, i have two Westell WireSpeed modems (one's a Rev A and the other a Rev B)... i never paid for either one, i do pay $34.95/mo for the service, and did sign a six-month contract for the service... btw, there were no installation fees... earthlink.
I'm not sure what the re-sale value would be here. DSL access is fairly cheap and common (and high performance) here. 1.5 to 4Mbit Down, .5 to 1Mbit up are the norm, and the hardware included in your line rate for almost free(the telco "buy your modem at our store, plug it in yourself" package is about $100, but saves $5.oo/mo). Unless you get into high-end xDSL or symetric DSL, the hardware isn't an issue. The hard part is the occaisional wait for an open port in your neighborhood.
vaalrus - early adopter DSL-1997,(1.5Mbitx768k) Cybersurfer cable at home:1997 also (shared 8Mbit down, 640k up). both services ~$40/mo (CAN- so about U$25.oo)
I'm with you on the Verizon having problems. I see it everyday when I go to work. They're such a bloody huge company, one hand usually doesn't know what the other is doing and nothing is ever planned ahead of time. Now that they're finally starting to incorporate the two different sides of the company (GTE and BA) things are really getting freaky-deaky. When it comes to DSL (atleast Verizon DSL), if you don't have any problems getting it up initially, you're USUALLY good to go(barring slow-throughput, high latency and so forth), if you have problems before you're up and running, hang it up and move along.
As always, word to the big bird.
plop
If you would like to offer me a new job, with the same pay I have now, I'd be more then happy to accept.
plop
I actually work for the DSL side of Verizon and I've run across a lot of our former customers selling the modems on Ebay. Believe it or not there seems to be a market for them there.
Word to the big bird.
plop
So with G.lite your connection is actually cut for a bit? Doesn't that seem to contradict DSL's "always on" capabilities. Even though it is only 2 or so seconds, what happens if you're playing a game online or something like that and someone picks up the phone?
When you say they have fast retrain, does that mean that all DSL connections get disconnected when someone makes a phone call? I wouldn't know about that because they used my 2nd phone line wire (no longer used) for my DSL and there was no voice on there, just the DSL.
And Then...
I've also had really bad luck with DSL providers and I've got 2 DSL modems sitting around waiting to be hacked/screwed with.
Around June of last year I signed up for 416k SDSL from PSN and was happily downloading everything in sight until December 30th or so when my line went down. Later I found out that PSN would be going out of business on the 17th of January and they'd be migrating me over to Telocity. They gave me an estimate of about 7-10 days to migrate. It took them 3 months (during which I had no internet access at all). A week after they got my connection back Northpoint went out of business and their network went down. Telocity sent me an email telling me that I'd be serviced through Rhythms now and it would take around 3 weeks to migrate over. About 3 weeks after that email I got another email from Telocity telling me that they didn't have anyone that could be my last-mile provider. I promptly canceled my Telocity account and called Time Warner and signed up for Road Runner. They set it up the next morning and I've been going strong for a week or two now.
DSL was really a nice service and I wish I could've kept it. It's really getting killed by the distance limit. BTW, when is G.Lite supposed to be coming around? If I'm correct, that extends the distance that DSL can go and it'd make it cheaper to provide. That could really be DSL's savior.
And Then...
Someone mind explain why this was marked Redundant ? ok, so _this_ message is Redundant, but thats besides the point :)
until (succeed) try { again(); }
until (succeed) try { again(); }
Well, if you have one of those rare internal models you maybe able to contribute it to someone making drivers for Linux for it.
Since there probley external, search the net for hacks on them. Maybe do some blind reverse eng. on it.
Last but not least, you could also take out your frustration on DSL providers, and use it for target practise. I think its safe to say, a 12 gague sluge would rip it apart nicely :)
until (succeed) try { again(); }
until (succeed) try { again(); }
always capitalize on the profitable DSL business model and start your own ISP.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
altjough what we would really need would be the service manuals for the things so that we can verifiy functionality.
I would be really ticked if it turned out to be something like, "well you can only use 3com routers with your 3com ethernet cards" - ie - merely marketing hype to lock you in to their hardware, which is probably just a generic OEM with branding on the outside.
these things need to be as well documented as regular dialup modems used to be.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
VP and VC that he is mentioning refers to (atleast from my DSL experience) the VPI and VCI, which, IIRC, are Virtual Path/Channel Identifier. Or something along those lines. They are settings that relate to the ATM backbone which the data travels between the CO's DSLAM and the ISP. If these settings do not match up on both ends, then the data will not reach its destination. Also the VPI/VCI have nothing to do with getting sync on your modem.
So if you have a modem from 1 service that you are trying to get working with another (without any luck), then ask your Telco what the VPI/VCI settings are, and then make sure they match up on your modem.
VP and VC that he is mentioning refers to (atleast from my DSL experience) the VPI and VCI, which, IIRC, are Virtual Path/Channel Identifier. Or something along those lines. They are settings that relate to the ATM backbone which the data travels between the CO's DSLAM and the ISP. If these settings do not match up on both ends, then the data will not reach its destination. Also the VPI/VCI have nothing to do with getting sync on your modem.
So if you have a modem from 1 service that you are trying to get working with another (without any luck), then ask your Telco what the VPI/VCI settings are, and then make sure they match up on your modem.
There are three basic types of RADSL Line encapsulations.
CAP (Carrier Aplitude Phased)
DMT (Digital Multitone)
G.Lite
For RADSL service to work the DSLAM that you are connecting to and the modem that you have need to be using the same line encoding. If you check with your local provider and find out what line encoding they are using, you should be able to use any modem that uses the same line encoding. CAP is going away but DMT and G.Lite are going to be here for a while.
Well, it only kind of violates the always on capability. If you're playing a game online, if somebody picks up the phone, then you'll have 2 seconds of lag- it's not quite like a dial-up (though some tools are trying to introduce dial-up adsl), when your connection breaks, you never get it back. When it retrains, you have the same IP and the same routing info, so you can continue any game you're playing, as long as it doesn't have a two second time out.
I'm not sure what you meant in your second question, but if you had a dsl connection on your inside and outside pairs, if you picked up a phone on one, it shouldn't effect the other much.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Keep the one you like the best, because there's no reason you shouldn't be able to use it if you get another DSL connection- I work at the U of New Hampshire interoperability Lab for ADSL, and we've tested equipment for all three of those vendors you've listed, and 60 other companies too, against 15 different DSLAMS. They all adhere to the same standards- g.dmt and the older ansi t1.413 (you only have to keep an eye out if you sign up for g.lite, splitterless adsl), they're supposed to interoperate.
While I can't say much because of confidentiality matters, I can say that those three companies- Alcatel, 3com, and Telocity- shouldn't give you any trouble on other systems. Only three settings really matter- VC, VP, and protocol, and if you can figure out how to set those, you're golden. There are companies that don't interoperate worth shit (one company sent us 5 different modems, one for each DSLAM they wanted to test against. I guess they missed the 'interop' part in our lab name), but in general, if a company tells you that you need to buy their modem, they're either lying or using crap for equipment.
Incidentally, while there are about 80 vendors for modems, there are only about 5 different chipset makers. You do the math
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
The benefit of G.lite is two fold:
1. You don't have to install a bandwidth splitter, so the company doesn't need to send a truck out- they can just send you the modem. This saves big bucks for the phone company.
2. They have fast retrain, which means that when you pick up your phone to make a call, the DSL service is re-established in less than 2 seconds. Picking up (and then hanging up) your phone drastically changes the characteristics of the line for a moment, and DSL connections can't stay established through a transition like that.
Other than that, there's no advantage to G.lite- it suffers from the same distance limitations. You could say you get full rate G.lite for a greater distance than normal ADSL (G.dmt), but that would be misleading, because full speed for G.dmt is around 8 Mbs (theoretically 14 Mbs), while G.lite is 1.5 Mbs. With respect to distance, when the max rate for G.dmt drops to the max rate for G.lite, they both start to lose bandwidth at about the same rate.
Another slight difference is that G.lite can only be used in the interleaved channel, while G.dmt can be fast or interleaved. Interleaved uses a more involved trellis coding and error correction than fast channel, and therefor gets higher data rates at greater line lengths. At lower line lengths, it gets lower speeds than the fast channel. Also, Fast channel has lower latency (but they're both so low, you shouldn't notice the difference)
If you want to check out the site for the lab I work at, go here: http://www.iol.unh.edu/consortiums/
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
"While you could call my old 56k "an obsolete piece of junk" now, I could still use it with whomever I want."
If you're out in the boonies like I am it's cheaper & more efficient to get 3 - 4 phone lines into an extra box, than getting the only other options, DirecPC (horrible pings) or the new 2 way Dish ($700 to start then $70/month 400k up 128K down). DSL & Cable won't be an option out here for another 5 - 10 years. The best thing is, my ISP is multi-link and they don't seem to realize it (or care). I know 5 people using the same dail-up account and I've seen/chatted with at least 3 of them at the same time. I don't think they ever check their logs either, this has been going on for years....
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
"Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion."
"Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion."
-C. Northcote Parkinson
If you couldn't get it from the title, the obvious answer is to make coasters out of them! Even put some batteries in there and make the lights blink in some cool pattern.
Kurdt
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
Good idea man... I can store like my pot and my schrooms and my acid man. No one will ever know man. Thanks alltel, man, for keeping the American Dream alive man. hehe. Hey, wait, but my bongs wont fit man.
Well, here's another question along the same lines.
I have a Motorola 3682 phone from PCS One (a local company which uses VoiceStream, formerly Omnipoint). A friend of mine works at the place, and "unlocked" my phone, so I can use it on any network.
Now, I have a CopperRocket SDSL modem from DSL.net...does it possess the same "lock codes" so that it won't work with another DSL provider?
While you could call my old 56k "an obsolete piece of junk" now, I could still use it with whomever I want.
I am in the same situation as the poster - canceled by Flashcom, transferred to Telocity, killed by northpoint, strung along and finally dropped by telocity. When I called to tell telocity that I was not paying for the two months of service they actually provided me (they did promise users two months of free service for not switching after the northpoint drop - mine are just going to be retroactive) they told me that i did not own the Telocity gateway and that they would send out a return-box to reship it to them. They threatened me with undefined "fines" if I kept the modem. I did remind them that I had been charged over $30 to receive the modem but they claim that that was only a "shipping and handling" charge. Anyway, my point is that Telocity owners might want to hold onto thier modems for a little while and see if they demand its return. Personally, I dont want to give them any more of my money.
i have to admit that i dont know exactly what (A)DSL is, but whatever it is exactly, it seems to be some sort of modem. I live in europe and have a chello connection which goes over the same line as cable TV. So we need some sort of modem hier too. some great box.. we only borrow them from the provider.. the company gets some money as bail, and when i dont want to have chello anymore, i _should_ get the money back (havent tried yet:)
and BTW: excuse my english, i hope my comments is understandable..
ha det,
Platy
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I.
we made AOL cds useful by drinking coffee....
we can make olds DSL modems useful by getting DSL in my area
no, but seriously speaking: you can open it up and use it to hide your drug stash...who's going to look there?
AT&T's agreement also says that you can't share you bandwidth outside your house. But heck, how will they know if you have a router?
My roommates and I accumulated a few modems that we got for free when switching ISPs. We sold them on eBay. If I recall, the last one fetched $120+. I'm sure with enough hacking you could make the status lights blink to the beat of your MP3s or something like that, but I doubt you'll come up with anything as nice as the feel of $400 in your pocket.
I'm an engineer for Lucent Technologies, and I work with our DSL gear (COE: Stinger/TNT, CPE: PipeLine/CellPipe).
I don't know about other vendors' equipment (especially interoperability), but most of our mid/high end CPE equipment (ie not the USB modems) has the ability in software to toggle between "cpe" and "coe" modes (think DCE and DTE).
Perhaps a use for old DSL equipment could be to do long range runs, that normal ethernet couldn't handle (tall buildings, distant campus buildings...) it's the best i can think of.
/blaxthos
I know the difference, but modem is easier to type, and everyone knows what it refers to. When someone says terminal adaptor, I think back to the days of mainframes... :)
Sell your spare DSL devices to people in other countries. Over here (.au) we are only just getting ADSL, and Telstra (telco) is making people use Alcatel devices and charging a fortune for them. Sending a DSL modem to .au might be prohibitively expensive, but what about Mexico/Canada/Europe?
Phone companies are charging over $ 100 over here for a technology that is obsolete over there in the states. Wouldnt be gr8 to sell a whole lot of them to the honest citizens of my beloved country? Ive said.
The covad folks are offering exchanges because Northpoint died. I think with some good acting you could get them to give you some money on the modem. I'm not sure about the details of this exchange so I might be wrong. You should check it out though.
Go to my site
Don't know about you, but a device that modulates multiple analog frequencies for upstream and downstream communications is called a MODEM [modulator/demodulator] in my neck of the woods! ADLS does this as does Cable. It's a modem that has a different frequency range, and tries not to step on either your existing voice range or cable TV range.
Hint -- That's why you only need one line for DSL and phone. Between you and the CO you can utilize far more frequencies on the UTP wire than the PSTN will allow thru the switches. Once your signal gets to the CO, the DSLAM creates a real digital stream [de-modulates the analog signals]
See these links for a good overview of ADSL technologies that Communications Systems Design published a couple issues ago:
Part I - ADSL Physical Layer
Part II - ADSL Handshake/Upper Layers
Your nitpick is correct with ISDN, but incorrect with ADSL. ISDN is a truly digital signal, and the CPE devices are called Terminal Adapters. Perhaps HDSL and IDSL are different, but ADSL and Cable technologies are not true digital signals to/from CPE......so the devices are called modems. ISDN is pretty much dead, but I seldom hear folks call the CPE device for ISDN a modem.
Overall I found certifications were often overrated, or better put there were SOMETIMES better candidates without certs who had lived with teh stuff vs someone from another IT area who took cert course X to expand his horizons.
--
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
But more than likely they are useless. Gee - maybe if some providers start offering cheaper DSL with used modems they won't go under as fast LOL
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Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
The degreed people got in because of the paper and maybe because they know what they're up to, while the nondegreed people can't get in if they don't know what's what. Quite often true, although the self-educated may have large gaps in their knowledge of fundamental principles -- in my experience with degreed and non-degreed engineers, the non-degreed are very good on the knowledge we use every day, but run into trouble when doing something really different. But then, less than 1/3 of the students starting on a BSEE completed the program, at least at the school I attended. Most university programs have much lower standards, with a correspondingly greater chance of letting people slip through without learning much. Consider that GW Bush and Gore were both graduates of Ivy League colleges, and it's hard to tell which one is stupider...
As for careers, there are three obstacles in the path of those who know their stuff but don't have the "right" certificates. One is employers that don't know how to tell if you know the job or not; without the certificate, it can be difficult to get in the door and get the opportunity to demonstrate by doing. Second, large corporations are often so bound up in red tape that even if the manager knows you are the best man for the job, he can't hire you for it -- or so idiotically managed that they don't know who is doing a good job. Smaller companies are much more flexible, but also the pay scales are usually much lower. And finally, the 4-year college degree is used by American businessmen in much the way knighthood and orders of nobility were used in medieval societies -- a quick way to distinguish the gentlemen from the riffraff.
There is a way to lease a phone line and do point to point...Who's selling DSL modems? Areacod3@hotmail.com...
--- "Just because you can....aw shit do it."
Almost true. My brother/parents have RoadRunner at their house, and the IP changes every 3-4 months (I think, maybe even more infrequently than that). I believe it changes when they have to do some sort of server restart or the network goes down. But, he has been able to run a server off of it using Linux, dyndns.org (to assign a name to his 'dynamic' ip address automatically), and some ingenuity on keeping a firewall and masquerading on all the time so they don't know he's running a server. After using Ameritech DSL and being on my brother's network during LAN parties (which can really hog bandwidth), I'm sold on cable. Ameritech DSL sucks (and yes, they do use crappy USB SpeedStream DSL modems), and I've never noticed a real slowdown that lasted very long (no more than 15 minutes) on RoadRunner.
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Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Speedstream efficient networks DSL modem, the one I got, is USB based. That means no Linux, FreeBSD, any sort of UNIX support. One i bought off Ebay was an older Infospeed modem that interfaces to an ethernet card. I *HAD* to buy it because Pacific Bell (god, what a horrid experience I did have with them on DSL...it just wouldn't work for anything) wouldn't supply me with one that interfaced with ethernet.
True, they don't go much for ebay anymore. What I paid $70 for goes for about $30-$45 now. Everyone sees the new models with the higher speed ratings, and some people question compatibility. I'd be willing to bet the older ones work fine. Besides, how much speed do you really expect to get with the basic level of service?
Anyway, the point I'm making is with so many DSL providers providing Windows centric modems (thus, I choose cable, seeing the rotten state Pacific Bell was in) they are of atleast SOME value to users of UNIX workstations/servers.
mwtr / THIS SIG HAS BEEN PRAYED OVER AND MAY BE USED AS A POINT OF CONTACT (ACTS 19:12)
Someone could start a project to create an open source DSLAM that costs next to nothing. Once that it created it would not be hard (using old home alarm copper) to create a large DSL network that anyone with a old DSL modem could plug into. DSL is not rocket science. It would be a nice project to see a user maintained and operated ISP. the 'OpenDSL/OpenISP' project or something.. I dont know.. unless you guys have the money for lots of Lucent MAX DSL's and Redbacks..
Real men don't use GUIs.
Media in general has a way of obscuring the vocab surrounding computing in order to promote company interests (MSNBC's definition of `hacker'), or to provide the clueless Joe Blow with a language he can understand (DSL/ISDN modems). The bad thing is when those who should know better start to adapt this distorted vocabulary.
In a wholly digital environment such as DSL or ISDN, there is no need to modulate and demodulate the signal from digital to analogue and vice versa. Instead, the protocols need only be adapted. Hence, we call this device a terminal adaptor, not modem.
I for one welcome our new SCOviet Russian overlords to whom all our base are belong.
i have a wireless connection (http://www.sprintbroadband.com) and i was wondering if the modem is a usual cable modem or a special one and if i will be able to use it in the future (p2p?) (peer to peer) or what it is a (hybrid) w/ a coax, eathernet, serial. if anybody knows anything e-mail me phantomdragonz@earthlink.net thnx Zach L.
i Have the wireless internet from (Http://www.sprintbroadband.com) and i was wondering if i can make a peer to peer connection (i am at least 20 miles from the tower on a mountain) so LOOOOOOONNNGGGGGG distances (line of sight) mines on a 30ft pole (trees) and if my friend had one whoa fast! talk bout quake jeez! (up to 5mbps) so any input would be helpful. if anybody knows ANYTHING e-mail me phantomdragonz@earthlink.net cool =) /. is geek god!!!
Zach L.
I actually currently have a back to back SDSL connection using Net to Net tech equipment. I am currently at ~17k total loop length (from me to the CO is like 2k feet, but from the CO to the ISP is ~15k), and am sync'd at a stable 1536kbps (I was at 2.3mbps, however that dropped several times a day for a few seconds)... Mind you, I'm not actually getting that much bandwidth (I can't afford it), but its cool that I *could* (I was able to verify that when I got the DSL line installed). While it is true you can use back to back Netopia's (tech note on how to do it is Here appearently it only works with R7100/R7171 Netopia routers, meaning if you have an R7200, your out of luck.) I prefer Using a dumb bridge, and letting my gateway do outbound load balancing between my 2 DSL lines anyway (I can do nifty things like policy routing, etc on my gateway that I cant on a Netopia..).
...of a do-it-yourself DSL hook-up can be found here.
The author apparently owns an ISP in a small town and took the steps he describes there to get high speed service to himself and some of his power-users.
I have wanted broadband for the last three years. But distance limitations on DSL stopped me from getting it. I signed up for cable cause it was ready first in my area and because for the same price my cable connection is more than 2x as fast. I even got it a few weeks early cause I agreed to be a beta tester in my neigborhood. It has worked almost all the time except for a few brief service probs along their routing system that slowed my latency to their main Washington DC router to about 500ms. Those only lasted a few hours and usually late at night. I had one outage last week that went off an on (mostly off) for a couple days. They said it was my cable signal in my house, but I think it was a neigborhood wide thing. Other than that I have been going good since February. I know about the shared connection problems but I have not experienced any kind of significant traffic based slowdown. DSL will be available to me in another month or so, but with all the complaints I have heard about the service and the contracts and the price/speed situation where I would have to shell out 100 bucks a month to be as fast as my 40 dollar cable connection. Lastly DSL has that stupid log on thing that you gotta go through, whereas my cable is a truly always on connection. Also with cable, I am not required to sign a contract that makes it impossible to cancel and get a refund. Did I mention that even though the cable company says it uses dynamic ip's, that my ip has been the same since I first started.
CA electricity was *NOT* deregulated. They just reregulated it in a different fashion, and slapped a new label on it:
Joe Idiot on the street was fooled into thinking that their electric service was going to be stream-lined and more affordable because it was now "deregulated". Of course this wasn't true.
And now everyone is blaming deregulation without bothering to think about what really is the case.
______
Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
And there are hacks out there to enable them as full routers, depending on the make/model of your DSL modem. Have you checked out DSL Reports?
"I want the white stuff, baby! In the middle of an Oreo!" -- "Weird" Al Yankovic
No! You learn by reading Slashdot. Slashdot users are experts on everything.
Pfft! Let them do what they like ;) Thats the way we learn.
I'm in a similar situation. I have an extra netopia DSL Router, and my old ISP refuses to take them back. Why not turn to EBay? Prices will ultimately fall (I can't believe I payed $250 for this piece of junk!) as demand decreases and supply grows. Which leads me to Marx's theory on capitalist overproduction...
This is possible. All you need is DSL/Cable/T1 connection to your ISP, two DSL modems (one for you and one for the other guy,) a dry copper line, and a router. Just make sure the other guy isn't TOO far away. I've gone as far as 20,000 feet and gotten decent throughput. My cost breakdown: AT&T cable internet - $47.50 Dry coper line - ~$21 2 DSL modems - free with two cancelled DSL services Multiply the above by the number of people you're willing to share your precious bandwidth with. Linksys router - $78 misc cables and computers not counted With a little configuration elbow-grease, your bandwidth (and internal network, (coughMP3scough) if you are so inclined) is now shared. Easy peasy. Note: With AT&T broadband, I'm not allowed to host a server. I haven't read the agreement closely, but even though I'm not technically acting as a server...I'm sure this isn't allowed.
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.