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MSN Buys 500,000 Qwest.Net Customers
SEWilco writes: "MSN is expecting to increase its users by 10% in a deal with Baby Bell Qwest. Although the MSFT press release does not specifically state it, according to Mercury News and Reuters/Yahoo a later conference call confirmed that Qwest.Net will be replaced by MSN service.
MSN said
it will 'strike deals with companies that own their own infrastructure rather than wholesalers'
in a PC World article pointed at by a recent DSL discussion. You can't strike a much bigger deal than this, unless you get all of a Baby Bell's voice customers too." A few readers have written in unhappy that they're about to become MSN customers, too.
Yeah, who do they think they are anyway - Sony?
So, you think your horseshit is any better? It's one thing to disagree with something, or to dislike it, it's a whole different matter when people are consumed by a mindless bloodlust.
It'd be one thing if this was a world of black and white, but it's not, it's not even close. One man's good is another's evil more often than one might hope.
And no, last I checked, MS did not quite chain their programmers up like the software company in Space Quest 3(I think it was 3, maybe it was 4), so the Nike comparison is off. They might not treat them all equally, but that's another matter.
Static IPs over DSL won't last long: From what I've read from the owner of the ISP I use, he's being pressured by the "local" Baby Bell to sign a new contract requiring all existing customers with static IP to be migrated over to PPPoE. I expect cable and DSL to converge in a few years to the same type of restrictions and limitations.
Give her a break, she said Aunt Flow was visiting. Her fingers are probably stuck together with monthly goo. That explains the typo.
dang, if only i hadn't blown all my moderator points. somebody give this a +1 Informative.
One thing noone seemed to notice is that Qwest is a huge supporter of 2 things that MS hates, netscape and *BSD. The support CDs they send out all have netscape on them, and they have been huge supporter of things not-MS. In addition to that, most of the ISP is run on some flavor of BSD. Wanna bet both of these will change asap? If you thought the 'service' they provided now sucks when they use good equipment (cisco/*bsd), imagine what will happen when they move to Win2K, Active Directory and paperclip icons to help you. *SIGH*
Yes, it matters *who* bought out the ISP. Acting like everyone is the same would be like the allied invasion of France was no different than Hitler's invasion. Hey, we *both* invaded France, yet somehow it was "bad" when the Nazis did it and "good" when the Allies did it...
"GPL-compatible" means "Someone can trivally relicence it under the GPL, at which time it will become Free Software".
In fact not being tied to one ISP is perhaps the best thing about Qwest, and one of the biggest disadvantages cable modem would have (if ATnT happens to some day finally get my area covered)
I just LOVE vladinator's site! Especially the "fash" section, where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old shirt to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "dance party" photos!
Of course, don't forget to read vladinator's emails! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have a pizza party? A fash party? Go to the mall with all of your friends? Have a sleepover and call boys on the phone?
In short, if you haven't checked out vladinator's site, you don't know what you're missing!
Our testing indicates XML to be slower by a factor of about 10x over Java binary equivalents. It only makes sense if you think about byte count, parsing, etc. A whole infrastructure built around XML will indeed require lots of bandwidth. A better choice is negotiated, escalating protocols; think modem protocol handshake. Some ORB vendors (e.g. IONA) supported both IIOP and proprietary protocols and/or transports. Handshaking is then used to select the most appropriate choice between partners and network topology. The results are astounding, like 10 to 100x (for ANYs). So, count on .NET to be very slow and require lots of bandwidth.
yes, one of those monolithic Linux ISP's, oh wait, there are none.
I was never very impressed with Qwest.net anyway, but now that it's going to be part of MSN, it's _really_ time to switch ISPs. The part of the press release that scares me is the line about how Qwest and Microsoft share a common vision .
A little more info. Not all DSL customers were sold. It seems they only sold their personal customers not the business customers.
Here is an excerpt from an email I received from Qwest.
Qwest Internet Solutions Technical Support wrote:
Hello,
Thank you for contacting QWEST Internet Services Technical Support.
You are inquiring about MSN and Qwest partnership.
On April 26, 2001, Qwest and Microsoft announced an agreement, which will soon offer the benefits of MSN to Qwest's In-Region (14 state) customers.
Details of this arrangement are still being worked out.
All existing Qwest.net customers will receive e-mail notification about the agreement in approximately 30 to 60 days. Full implementation is not expected for 60-90 days.
Qwest.net Internet Access Analog, DSL Select and DSL Deluxe customers are included in the agreement.
Qwest.net OfficeWorks and OfficeWorks LAN, and DSL Professional customers are not included in the agreement.
Our relationship with MSN will enhance our ability to provide Internet access to our customers.
Thank you,
Qwest Internet Services Technical Support
This isn't the first time Microsoft has bought a competitor and "SLAMMED" users to their MSN service. Anybody who bought a DELL computer in the last year or so with DELLNET ISP option was switched to MSN without recourse this past January. Branding is so important to Microsoft that they wouldn't even let people preserve their "dellnet.com" email addresses. They forced all users to adopt MSN account names.
Everybody I know who was slammed by this switched to other service providers, as they hated their MSN service.
With Time-Warner-etc merging with AOL, AOL can't pick up AT&T. The FCC would have a WHOLE lot to say on that issue since Roadrunner and @Home are pretty much (AFAIK) the two largest cable service networks.
:)\n"
Now I, OTOH, am up a secondary tributary without a primary means of propulsion, since I use Roadrunner. Ugh. Maybe I should switch to BellSouth DSL.
if ($user =~ m/shaldannon/i) {
print "\n-- $user
}
What is your Slash Rating?
Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
Oh ok, thanks!
The revolution will NOT be televised.
When did they become a Baby Bell?
The revolution will NOT be televised.
I work for a company that buys and sells mortgages.
:)
I don't see anything odd about that.
While having a monopoly may not be illegal, that certainly doesn't mean that I like MS b/c of it. I'd be much happier if no one monopolized the computing industry. And I'm perfectly entitled to complain about it. After all, _should_ it be the ultimate goal of the people who work at MS (in whose hands the decisions and responsibilities lie) to run the whole show? I think not. Were I in there shoes, I certainly wouldn't even try to; competition is too important to preserve.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Well they rather need to work with the infrastructure guys, what with .net around the corner. Especially as xbox is a thinly-veiled attempt at cornering the low-end pc market and console market. (gaming + ms's webtv + ms's ultimate tv + ms's ie + ms's office via .net for ~$400 with monthly charges)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Ack, that came out wrong. I meant to say they bought U.S. West which was a Baby Bell.
Qwest is not a Baby Bell. Qwest bought U.S. West to become a Baby Bell.
what if you had a long term deal with Qwest, or do they do that ? I have a 12 month agreement with my DSl provider, saved me a large amount of money. Is this not a contractual default ? anyone have anymore facts than the Publicity rag put out by M$ ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
But this is A PRO LINUX UNIX site, there are plenty of PRO-M$ sites, I bet there are even one or 2 that are NOT owned by M$ :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Do what I said in another post: if you don't like it, leave the company and get service elsewhere.
And pray that they don't sell you out to Microsoft as well.
Jay (=
See sig. I did my best.
--
Point taken, however, I get the feeling a large part of the Microsoft bashing seen here is not due to an understanding of their business tactics but because it is the cool thing to do. If said Linux ISP had evil business tactics in the past, it wouldn't receive the slaughtering MS does.. or so I'd like to think.
--
I only use different approaches to mentation when under the influence of certain unnamed chemicals, those of which I am not in possession of at the time.
<Voice type=TylerDurden>Now you, you seem clever.. how is that working out for you, being clever?</voice>
--
I wasn't being a troll, I was being honest. There's a difference between posting something to make a point and posting something for the sheer joys of "starting shit" (aka, trolling)
I don't think that MS is unworthy of bashing, it just always pisses me off when Slashdot posts a troll article like this one with a snide anti-MS spin on it in order to prime the collective Linux ego. I suppose it shouldn't bother me, since this is Slashdot, but somehow I still wish they were above this sort of thing.
I was going to quote some of the top modded comments that have snide MSN bashing.. but there are too many. I'm not generalizing the readers as MS-hating zombies, but look at the posts and the moderation results and you'll see that at least the people responsible for both of these things can be described as such.
--
Let the Microsoft bashing begin..
Sometimes I think it would be interesting if Slashdot would post a Microsoft (bashing) story with Microsoft's name omitted ("An Unknown Company" or something less suspicious) initially, let the posts roll in, then reveal the truth and see how quickly opinions change.
I'm guessing that if some large Linux based ISP picked up the entire userbase of another (NT based, perhaps?) ISP it would be declared a "Victory for Linux" etc., etc.
--
QWest is not the only DSL ISP in most places it services. You're stuck with them for the actual line, but there are plenty of choices for ISPs.
...
--
I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations
And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners.
Berke Breathed
Well, having lived in Nebraska for a few years with a cable modem, I would say there is other options.
Anywhere where you can get DSL in Omaha, you can get a cable modem... and actually, I lived in an area where you couldn't get DSL.
Also, the same was pretty much true for western Iowa.
If you really want something to bitch about, look at the broadband options for the people living outside of Omaha and Lincoln... hell, a lot of these people didn't/couldn't have phones until recently. Do you think they can have a connection to the internet that goes faster than 56k? I'd imagine that their line quality isn't the greatest, and it's more like 28.8 (or worse...)
I'm surprised that we haven't seen a push for the equivalent of equal access in broadband. Just like the phone was earlier, the internet is (has?) becoming a necessary means of communications, at least here in the US. If we neglect the needs of the farmers (and others outside of broadband's profitable reach), then we may create a bigger problem in the future when the farmers kids try to enter back in society without the necessary tech skills that every 4th grader will have in the bigger (profitable) communities.
dennis
I hate to say it, but you get what you pay for. I can't imagine complaining about an email service which is provided for free and doesn't have to send your attachment if it doesn't want to. Heck, your ISP probably already provides you with a mailbox or two along with your 'net connection, why not use them?
Not that ISPs provide flawless email either, but at least you can legitimately complain since you've spent money on it.
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Are you kidding? Here in Minneapolis/St. Paul + Suburbs (where most of the broadband sales are in the MN, ND, and SD market) there are plenty of other options... Just for DSL there are: Visi, Agiliti, Onvoy, and more.. Plus all the Cable Modem companies, including AT&T (formerly Mediaone). It is NOT a monopoly. // dijit
dijit-at-interactiveinfosec.com
http://uswest.sucksass.com/
Hey I guess if your service is not good enough to attract customers; buying customers is an option??
Somehow that does not sound right, how much did they pay and how long will X number of customers have to stay to pay back the investment?
Who owns your data?
.Net will require TONS of bandwidth. Microsoft seems to expect that MSN will be the primary carrier for thier vision of the future. Not only will you pay them for the hotel (.Net), you'll be paying them for the trip (MSN) too.
No one can accuse them of not being shrewd.
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
I'm currently doing DSL through Qwest, and run Slackware. You can imagine the fun I have with tech support. It's to the point were it's easier to lie and say I'm on Win9x. When I swapped apartments last, it took me a month to get hooked back up. When I was having issues with the modem, I called Tech Support, and started asking configuration questions. It went something like:
Me: I just have a few questions on configuring my modem,
Qwest: OK Sir, is your modem attached to your serial port?
Me: Yup, I'm already at the 'CBOS' prompt.
Qwest: OK Sir, go to Start, Programs, Assess...
Me: Actually I'm on a Linux box, look I've already got minicom up and I'm logged into the modem and it's enabled.
Qwest: Um.... could you hold for a moment sir...
I (finally) found out that everything was correct, they just hadn't set everything up (despite the fact that the modem had trained)
I can just see it now..
Me: I'm having issues with my DSL modem.
MS_Qwest: OK Sir, what is the name of your Passport account.
Me: *sigh*
I currently use Qwest.net, being the LEC I figured they would be around. I switched after Reflex Communications ended up exploding in chapter 7 flaming death. This will probably make me switch my domain, internet service, etc. to another DSL provider. I have problems with this, and will not give any money to "that company".
The telco's and cable companies have bought your souls! You want fast Internet service "CHEAP", and you got it...they have been selling their service below their cost to get you hooked and if the present trend continues broadband will be the only choice left since local ISP's haven't been able to get in the game of losing money hand over foot to provide fast access.
In time local providers will all be gone, the big guns will bring on the rate increases and all of you will cry like babies because you won't be able to afford their outrageous prices. If you were smart you would push for legislation to make sure your local ISP could get a fair shake and make the cable companies open up their networks to competitors. When it gets down to about the last five providers all of us will pay their price or get off the Net. When independent providers are gone I predict 90 bucks a month for access, 350 bucks a month for web hosting and a river of tears from the crybabies!
Just a few years ago we were paying through the nose for long distance, but you guys don't remember those days, the Net had a major influence in reducing long distance rates since email and chat were free people cut their long distance use to the bone.
The cable companies must have the world record for rate increases. In my area we saw an eleven percent increase last year in cable TV fees. Just a few years ago cable TV was commercial free since we paid for the service, now there are eleven commercials in a 30 minute show and we pay to watch them.
Keep supporting the monopolies guys, they are your friends.
How much does an internet customer go for these days? Before the dot.com blues they were going for $200+. Maybe at reduced rates MSN has enough cash to just buy all internet users and get the assimilation over with quickly.
Microsoft have always hedged their bets and got into every market possible. Think MSNBC. They have a healthy opinion of the future (i.e. they realize that it may go in an area that's unanticipated). How you rate their aggressiveness in pursuing it is determined by your philosophy.
I surpised no-one has mentioned this, but doesn't anyone think this purchase was made to help boost the XBox?
I'm sure when it comes out, all MSN customers will received plenty of advertising about the XBox, and how great life will be with an XBox and a DSL line. I'm sure MSN will be tuned to work really well with the XBox (or vice versa).
A darker side to that theory is that MSN customers mighthave a rough time connecting a PS2 through the MSN network.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For one thing, the XBox probably will work best with MSN as I imagine they'll host a lot of XBox related servers there. That's the kind of tuning I was imagining, I described that badly. So, yes, you'll get lower ping times because most servers you use will probably be MSN hosted.
One of the big selling points of the XBox is that it has a built in ethernet connection, so to help it be successful they need as many high speed customers as possible. By buying Qwest.net customers, you also get most Qwest DSL subscribers who in turn will be told the XBox is built and supported to work under MSN (who is now their ISP).
As for the PS2 scenario, I don't think it likley either. It is a possibility though to deprioritize traffice going to PS2 specific game servers or at the very least not caring much about how traffic routes outside MSN. Who knows, perhaps that's SOP there anyway.
I didn't mean to make it sound so conspiritorial, I just wanted to point out that the XBox to succeed would like to have a lot of high bandwith users and this is one way to get closer to them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You're thinking of SPRINT -- SP:"Southern Pacific", a railroad.
Then as a consumer, switch to another ISP if you don't like the choices of your own ISP. And when you leave Qwest make sure to let them know why you are leaving. Obviously Qwest is making 10% of their customers a test set, if appears succesful they will sell the rest of their customer base. If the switch turns out to be a failure for them, then they will be forced to reevaluate their relationship with Microsoft.
If you just grunt and wake up every morning signing onto a service you don't like and Qwest doesn't hear about it, they will continue to make more customers deal with MSN.
Since I'm now a 'Buisness' my Q3 and UT servers should be better. I'm also in Denver so I'll be watching this too.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
Well Qwest could tell MSN they will not bundle the cost of ISp with the phone bill. (Yea, Right!) Personally thats why I liked Qwest, I did have bundled ISP/phone bill - one less thing to remenber to pay the bill for!
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
I really hope that I am avoiding the usual MS bashing but aren't they suspiciously getting into everything?
Operatings systems, peripherals, TV networks, ISPs, Gaming consoles....
I think that this is all kind of scary. It's bad enough that they have the desktop OS market in their pocket but now they are trying to get everything in thir control.
I can't believe that the majority of people haven't yet become distrustful of MS. The average person doesn't trust the government, or the company that they work for or even friends and neighbors, but they blindly follow wherever microsoft leads them.
My faith in humanity is decreasing everyday.
Just so no one is confused about this, you do not have to use Qwest.net as your ISP just because you have a Qwest DSL line. You can pick from a myriad of other providers. Check here for a list of other providers.
What bothers me about this is that there's no info from Qwest as to what's happening except for a press release and no info on what's going to change (pricing, policies, etc.) People on the qwest newsgroups have to sit there speculating as to what the wording of the press release means, since no one in the company will answer any customer questions.
Don't you realize, though, that roadrunner is owned by aol now?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is Futile. Your life, as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service us.
--
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I have Qwest DSL/ISP for about a year now, and for the past 2 months I've been getting a staggering amount of DNS errors. I often have to click on a link twice(once for DNS error, twice to get the connection).
My work uses Qwest too for internet access, and the same problem exists. Argh.
That would be the idea.
Vamp up their existing network to handle the load.
Slowly remove all of the legacy systems.
It is a cost based decision. (unless of course the competitor was able to do it better, ie cheaper/more efficient)
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
while aol pummels you by default with popup ads, its really not that hard to turn them off
keyword ad prefrences or something
Need a Catering Connection
Anyone have any good reccommendations for DSL ISP service in Denver? I'm thinking of Front Range Internet or someone, but I'm not sure who to go to. Who do you reccommend?
Hope some of those customers aren't in Maryland, doesn't MSN use Passport? Guess they are SOL
:)
Quest has already screwed us. We noticed that they were over-charging us for long distance, so we switched to ATT. Next month we get slapped with a $20 "disconnect" fee. Boycott Qwest, they deserve it
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
I have almost completed changing all my accounts from uswest.net to qwest.net. Now I'm being sold up the Sound to Redmond. Someone please give me a break. Any suggestion on ISP's that support DSL? My Netscape probably won't work as well with MSN and AOL is definetely not an option. Soon it will be like the Model T, you can have it in any color you want as long as it is AOL or MSN.
Hey, you know, that insane type of business plan has worked for _some_ companies.
If I were the 800 pound gorilla I wouldn't have bought then out either... to expensive and way too much paperwork, etc. Plus you have the expensive of taking on the other companies debts and other liabilities.
----
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
Unlike many others I am a relatively happy Qwest.net customer. For two years I have gotten quick reponses to my problems from their customer service reps who seem to truly care. They are also easily reachable as well. However, I have no interest in being an MSN customer so I will have to switch. I am curious about Speakeasy as an ISP. One friend of mine has had some problems getting arrogant responses from them concerning a problem that he had. I know that on their site that they have an email support response preference going on which is fine if it's fast and good. I liked being able to call up Qwest whenever I had a problem and get a quick response so I am curious as to how good people would rate Speakeasy.
Hey, you think your house is cool?
At least in theory, there's a big advantage in using the telco as the ISP: it avoids one level of mutual finger pointing when things go wrong. Switching to MSN, which only supports Windows, will be yet another way to deny customers the possibility of choosing another OS.
I've had the experience of trying to solve a problem with Qwest DSL support. The problem was clearly that the DSL line was too noisy to carry the signal. The diagnostics from the DSL adapter told me that. But, since I was using a Macintosh to run their diagnostic software, I had to waste 15 minutes convincing the guy that the problem wasn't with my computer. I was using the latest version of the OS on the newest PowerBook and he claimed their stuff wouldn't work with my machine because it was too old. The model was three months old, but since it wasn't on his list, it wasn't supported. He had no idea that every PowerBook for many years has had a built-in Ethernet port, which is the only required hardware.
When Qwest switches to MSN for their ISP service, what do you think will happen to support for MacOS, Linux or anything not Windows? How many more people will think they have to buy a Windows PC in order to use broadband?
Phone companies are not allowed to "buy out customers" and inform them that they have to conform to the new bell. ISPs shouldn't follow suit.
What, you didn't notice Qwest buying out US West last year? Funny, seemed like you were familiar with Qwest there for a second. My mistake.
Apparently you're not noticing the difference. Qwest bought USWest. They bought the whole company. One company bought another company.
This deal isn't Qwest's deal with USWest. MSN bought THE CUSTOMERS, not the business.
Alright, here's a Qwest.net customer for you.
We've been with them for a year and a half for dial-up. They've been GREAT in being a reliable dial-up ISP (49 out of 50 calls go through, have averaged a 45.6 kbps connection, never a busy signal), and payment's cheap ($15 flat).
We finally decided to go broadband...640k ADSL line, and service has been just fine (aside from no support for Linux with their internal modem). As for support, they suck (not even their managers know what G.Lite is, and it took the head manager to diagnose a problem that a line technician could have fixed in two minutes, or so he said). But the line's just been fine.
But I'm sorry, I'm not going to be dragged around like some schmuk who's forced to go where they drag us. It is completely bogus that they feel that because they have a regional monopoly, they can do crap like this. I'm not a cable fan, and quite frankly, I don't want to have to dish out $220 for a bloody cable modem, but I don't want to be a corporate pawn either (besides, I'm sure the cable company here would love to offer a "anti-Microsoft" deal for about 1,000 DSL customers who don't want to be pulled around in such a way...the regional guys will actually go out of their way to do stuff like that).
Phone companies are not allowed to "buy out customers" and inform them that they have to conform to the new bell. ISPs shouldn't follow suit.
I don't know what city you live in, but apparenlty you think that, like where you probably live, the places Qwest services have broadband "options."
Sorry, but Qwest services the upper-midwest. Do you know what broadband options are up here? Qwest. That's it. If you wanted broadband (and it was a pretty good deal too), you had to go with Qwest. North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado...there aren't any other options for most of this region.
MSN and Qwest are taking advantage of a regional monopoly. Don't get me wrong, this isn't hate mail towards Microsoft...I think that it's absolutely bogus that AOL and Time Warner are trying to do the same crap.
Here's the problem: Big Businesses KNOW that broadband IS the future. The internet is the future, and the faster the internet, the larger business potential. Just like the telco back in the 1930's, businesses ARE TRYING TO MAKE A MONOPOLY out of broadband. That's what wrong. That's what I want stopped.
That is an excellent point, my friend, and rings the bell of my following contention: if you ever let yourself be serviced, either dail-up or dsl, by USWorst or its happy owner, you're a patsy deserving little sympathy. Its one thing to be forced to use their plumbing....
Although, to be honest, dude, one wonders what part of the twentieth century one would have had to sleep through to be surprised that consumers and a commodity. Been to any movies lately?
illegitimii non ingravare
Perhaps I'm not looking far enough into the future with this idea, but, what if local educational institutions (colleges, universities) sold part of their bandwidth to the surrounding public?
I think it sounds good at first, but, then again, maybe commercializing our universities would be a bad thing. For instance, Local State University has tons of unused bandwidth. So, they decide to sell part of it to the locals. However, nearby Smith University also has some extra bandwidth and decides to make a couple bucks with it. So, LSU and SU fight it out and eventually one has the monopoly and we'd be right back where we started.
However, from my experience, the people that manage the internet access at college seem pretty sane(i.e. "Don't browse porn at 3pm. At 4am when you're all alone in the lab, that's fine."). Though, maybe other people have had worse experiences. (I do remember the story where poorer schools were getting free internet access with banner ads and filters or something like that. Lots of people told stories about how bad their internet access was in college. I was pretty perplexed. To this day, I suppose I don't see how lucky I really am.)
kickin' science like no one else can,
my dick is twice as long as my attention span.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
Damn, the 3 computers I set up for my relatives on Christmas break had Dellnet. It's going to be hard changing the Outlook settings, let alone explaining all that to my older aunt and younger cousins. I'm not looking forward to the end of this semester then.
"Wireless : LAN
I switched from AOL to MSN in a rebate deal buying a computer almost 2 years ago. The MSN service has been decent, and quite frankly, it has its benefits.
You're not tied to a Proprietary software connection as intrusive as AOL's software (read all the "if you have AOL or WEBTV, click here for your page") and you can finally use Internet Explorer's most recent edition to browse, plus something AOL won't offer: POP3 mail. The automation brought by outlook or your own choice of mail client is noticeable, though getting a virus through Outlook is easier than through AOL's HTML implementation of email.
The connections are stable but I was outraged to find only 2 lines for all of us 7 million users in New York City. They added about 5 more in December but I'm still a little worried about people from small towns getting local lines.
Like AOL, MSN uses a proprietary dialer, so my windows scripting functionality is a little struck. I don't know why you can't just use the system dialer but must monitor the user's every move and send in ads and things through proprietary and unbreakable programs. But almost every company big enough for me to have heard of it in the NorthEast has more and more of the qualities of MSN and AOL. So the choices aren't any better. I'd just wish MSN didn't charge the same rate as AOL since I get a few more busy lines with them.
PS: For the love of God, don't use the new MSN explorer! There's a reason why MSN version number jumped from v2.6 to v6.0 in the blink of an eye, and some of the features MSN used to have are killed. Grab your old MSN 2 CD and install that to use my features. You probably won't know anyone on your block with MSN anyway, so you don't need MSN's IM program or other time killers that [young] people have grown used to.
I hope this is helpful. If you don't currently have a large ISP, then a lot of what I said about MSN you might already be enjoying.
"Wireless : LAN
DSL Reports.
I am not a lawyer.
I was so shocked when I read this, that I spewed Mountain Dew all over my monitor. I've been a reasonably content Qwest DSL customer for over a year now. The service has been pretty reliable, and I've had only a few minor complaints. The possibility that MSN (or any company for that matter) could buy my internet subscription without my consent is both chilling and infuriating. I'm also a former MSN internet help desk employee, and I couldn't get out of the job fast enough. I got fed up with the "Support Boundaries" that prevented me from going out of my to help a customer. It was the only job I've had that actually made me feel dirty. Slashdot's Bill-of-Borg icon is all to close to the truth sometimes.
"I'm making perfect sense, you're just not keeping up."
Fortunately I just bought a home with internet access as part of the deal and no longer use services from qwest...so no...I will not be assimilated...;)
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world; unreasonable people persist in trying to adapt the world to themselves
First off, you're not tied to using Qwest as the ISP service. You can choose any DSL compatible ISP with Qwest DSL. So if you really dislike Qwest then check for a local ISP and switch. If they tell you switching ISPs is going to cost you then go to your local Public Utilities Commision. Get enough people going there and you won't have to worry. Qwest was sued and settled out of court with most ISPs over marketing and lead time practices for DSL. The ILEC is supposed to give all unregulated companies an equal standing and oppertunity. Generally speaking Qwest does an Fair (C+ work at best) job at it.
Where Qwest does have to worry is combined billing. The Mercury news reports indicated they could be putting the MSN bill in the phone bill. For those who don't follow these things, U S West before the merger told all the ISPs and Web Hosting Companies that they had 30 days to get their customers off combined billing. By letting MSN do this they now are offering an exclusive unbundled service to someone. My guess is they will get sued over this.
I did not sign up as a MSN customer because I did not want to be a MSN customer. I signed up to be a Qwest.Net customer. I am willing to pay for a service that works. I am not willing to pay for MSN quality of service.
Thank you very much.
(!!!** NOT ** !!!)
Why is it easier for companies to sell out, than to make a profit from actually providing a good service?
it is not Free in the sense of Free Software. It is merely Open Source.
Actually, FreeBSD is released under the BSD license version 2, which is a GPL-compatible free software license.
Will I retire or break 10K?
No, they're not. I work for a medium sized ISP, and we frequently buy smaller ISPs that can't make it on their own. We already have the infrastructure so assimilating them won't cost us as much as staying in business separately would cost them. But the deal is just like a company buying any other company. If you buy something from one company and another company buys them, you call the new company for warranty issues. It's definitely less odd than banks selling peoples' mortgages to each other.
Are you kidding? MSN has excellent customer service. After calling their support number, I found the touch-tone service menu easy to navigate. Would you believe they have an option specifically for quitting their service? It only took me a few minutes.
Sigh..
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
My friend used to own an ISP that went out of cash and could no longer continue operations. Local 800-pound gorilla ISP did not buy them as a company with all their equipment, people and debts, but paid some money for the servers and the customers (and hired some of the tech support people).
;-).
After that his company got belly up, but the customers continued to be served by the new ISP (transition was horrible, as it always happens
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
The thing is that no one likes to be an ISP besides the big guys because it is not that profitable.
Qwest has sold 500K users, got a lot of money for marketing MSN, and kept its jewel - the DSL network charges ($30+/mo). They have just sold their ISP unit.
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
Last time I checked, Qwest.net had all of their pop, DNS, /etc servers running BSD. What are the chances that MSFT is going to try to switch these over for propaganda purposes?
If they do, it might make Qwest service even more spotty...
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Remember to make sure that all of the blood is of it first, or you become unclean.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Let's not find out. Even though I have just made two posts mentioning inner workings of Qwest.net, let's not assume it has anything to do with a certain outsourcing company mentioned in my .sig
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
So you are denying that there is a combined (outsourced) Qwest ISP\DSL technical team?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Qwest (the phone company) is currently one of the worlds largest DSL providers. Qwest (in a move that is of questionable legality) use their government regulated monopoly on phone services to push their non-regulated ISP business.
One of the big reasons that customers choose Qwest as an ISP for DSL is that they are told, either explicitly, or implicitly, by sales people, that this combinations of services is neccesary (which of course it is not).
With Qwest.net soon being part of MSN, it will lose one of its big selling points for DSL.
Also, DSL customers who were Qwest ISP customers will have to go back to making twice as many phone calls to get their DSL installed...both to Qwest to get the hardware installed, and to MSN to get the ISP side. In other words, Qwest is losing one of its big selling point (actually maybe the only one) - the ease of use from "bundled" services.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
C'mon, no one's going to complain about how FreeBSD isn't free?! Let's get a big GPL rant going, it'll be fun.
My area gets "service" (I use the term lightly) from QWest, and a friend of mine uses QWest for internet. I can say that I've never been impressed with the telephone end of their business, and my friend's internet access through them has been hellish to say the least. I'm sure it'll only get better with Microsoft's influence. *rolls eyes*
Microsoft makes world domination push with China partnership
.Net strategy, the Xbox video game console and the wired home, require them to have lots of citizens to buy them without qustion. For competitive reasons, it's in Microsoft's interest to do it quickly.
Original Mong: JON FORTT/Mercury News
Microsoft will soon make another big push into the world domination business, after a five-year deal struck with China. Microsoft and China announced Thursday that Microsoft will be the exclusive everything provider to China's citizens. China is home to serves more than 5 billion citizens, roughy 30% of the world's population.
China will discontinue its own political domination. About 5,000 of China's citizens get direct access to this domination through fear every day, either through subjugation or spying.
Specific terms of the deal were not disclosed. But as part of the deal, China promised to do away with the Tebitian problem. Microsoft also gets first crack at invading Taiwan next quarter, who will have the option of switching over to MSDN (Microsoft Domination Network) or finding a new ally. China projects that the deal could bring the country as much as $31.5 billion over five years.
So far Microsoft's efforts in the world domination arena have fallen flat. Former partner North Korea has filed for protection from the United States, and Microsoft's co-branded MS-Cuba program has not done much business. All together, said Expansion and Marketing Manager Bob Visse, Microsoft has fewer than two billion customers acquired through world domination.
The deal with China, which could turn out to be the largest an country has made with a company, could be the beginning of a larger trend. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said he is eager to strike similar deals with other countries, he also went on to state that Russia is pretty close to China, although he declined to comment on any plans to buy Russia.
Plus, Microsoft has to plan ahead. AOL Time Warner, which is both the biggest media companies with a large user base, has a clearer path to domintating the rest of the world, with their recent acquisitions of Canada and South America.
For other reasons, it is in Microsoft's interest to push the adoption of it's agenda. Many of Microsoft's plans, including the consumer segment of its
``We think this is going to be just a super-attractive opportunity for us to switch the disenfranchised Chinese citizens who are in a evil beurocratic communist country, to one that is owned by Microsoft,'' Visse said.
China's territory includes more than 20 miles out to sea, but not according to the United States.
---
Hammer of Truth
You want a "static" ip? get a updated hostname.
www.d2g.com
Wonderful service. They got an excellent windows client (tho you might not be interested in that). Much better than a lot of the other services out there.
Free too.
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
How can a company buy customers? It's a strange world we're living in...
Qwest's customers who do not wish to be MSN's customers should demand full refund of the equipment and/or remainder of lease contract, or a no-cost (to the user) transfer to another provider.
MSN should learn how to obtain and maintain a clientelle of their own and not resort to buying them off the market, like some comodity.
-----
I have QWest ADSL service and have been very happy with it for the last 16 months. I went with a different ISP because USWeat.net would not give me a static IP, So I emailed several ISP's on their list of ISP's that supported DSL and eventually went with a small one-man (as far as I can tell, I've talked to Sales & Tech support several times and I've never got anybody else :) operation and have had no problems. I have even had help from this guy to set up my Cisco DSL router when the NVRAM went south.
I was with MSN in my pre-Linux, pre-FreeBSD days and it really sucked! No matter how hard you try
Not only is this a reduction in choice for users, but it's also a probable rollback of free software. As this Slashdot story mentioned, USWest.net presented slides showing thier extensive use of FreeBSD.
Of course, this is embarassing stuff to Microsoft, especially on their own systems.
Even though here in AZ uunet seemed to service the MSN dial-ups, I can't help but wonder if MS won't wipe out the FreeBSD infrastructure USWest.net (Qwest.net) has in place.
---
In a hundred-mile march,
I know about a dozen people who work for visi, and while the "money people" behind it are different. (VISI has changed hands twice now, IIRC), the techies, the customer service people, and even the sales force have been the same crowd as always for years now, and they still kick serious ass for remote connections (whether via DSL, dial, or bigger pipes). I also know a hell of a lot of VISI customers (including the business where I work), and all have been remarkably happy. Yes, dsl.net has purchaced them, but they still operate as a separate entitiy.
As for co-location... I agree with you 100% that they are too expensive for those kinds of services. They have been for as long as I can remember. (On the other hand, you get what you pay for... they tend to babysit their corporate users better than other network companies do... so they are not the first choice for DIY types, but very good for hosting non-techie companies). If I ever want to do something like that, I will keep your suggestions of checking out Spacestar in mind.
As for DSL, I'm switching to VISI this month.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Those of you in other Qwest cities, there's a good chance that there is somebody like that where you live. Look around a little, and post it here if you find one. :)
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
.. your honor, we are not a monopoly.
until (succeed) try { again(); }
until (succeed) try { again(); }
Big fucking deal. Switch providers. I was unhappy when Time Warner (my cable provider) merged with AOL, but I didn't complain. I switched to Comcast (and got a nice cable modem deal in the process.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
--
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons,
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for you are crunchy and good with catsup.
linkage from the horse's mouth.
But hey - at least AOL is planning to stop using Internet Explorer and instead use their own product, Codename: Komodo/AOL 7.0 (no relation to ActiveState's Mozilla IDE). They may even decide to release an 'official' Linux product at the same time.
I think this is good news for everybody.
*** I am the real stylewagon
Gateway online is no more, they are converting all their (L)users over to AOL'ers. I was shocked and dismayed when my freind told me he was told he needed to switch to AOL (free for a year for the hassel) from his Gateway Online service because they were shutting down.
You all must assimilate into sub standard net connections.... What a joke
Are you lonely? Hate having to make decisons? Meetings, the practical alternitive to work.
laid-off verizon tech support to the rescue!
I use verizon as my DSL provider, and when you sign up, you choose a "GSP," which is either qwest or some other company I don't remember. I recall at the time being told by someone that it didn't matter which one I chose, so I think I chose qwest. Anyone know what kind of impact this deal will have on someone in my situation?
won't make any different... verizon's leasing bandwidth from qwest, but this only affects the customers using qwest to provide their isp service. you are, i assume, using verizon online, so you won't be affected.
(briefly roused from his slumber, laid-off verizon tech support man now returns to sleep and dreams of strangling ivan with his bare fucking hands.)
--saint----
Quest wanted an extra 15$ a month for the static IP before I found out they were multiplexing (?) the phone lines in our area. Something about sharing the copper with too many people.
Anyhow, I guess it's more about the TOS... the DSL connection would let me run "servers" where my cable modem prohibits it. I was cool with a limit to how much bandwidth I used , but still able to run my own CS server when we wanted a private game over the net. I can work around most of these things from a technical perspective, but I risk losing my broadband.
I just don't feel that lucky....
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
for the static IP address you can get with a DSL connection. I'm not sure why it matters what DNS name your ISP uses if you run your own mail / web server...
Yes, I know about TZO as well, but come on - I'm only 14,000 feet from the CO! A static IP is one of the main reasons for buying a house so close to my mother in law...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Never mind, you're coming with us.
"Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
I currently get access through Qworst, but will terminate it immediately if I'm transfered over to MSN "service". I'd rather be on dial-up than on MSN.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
Sorry, someone had to say it.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
I find it absolutely amazing that I get moderated down for an on-topic post, while your off-topic post stays at +1. Life may not be fair, but slashdot is worse...
As a forced-customer of MSN(I can't really change what my Dad does can I?), here is some useful information if you are forced to use full-fledged MSN Username != Username . Username = MSN/username they want you to use the special client software for windows, and are reluctant to share this News and Email are unreadable in non-outlook environments as far as i know. this is due to lack of NTLM/SPA support which is required.
I don't think takeover by MSN is anywhere near as scary as being taken over by AOL. MSN gives clean IP dialtone, AOL locks you into their own private prison and bombards you with pop up ads. There may be an MSN for morons to compete with AOL these days, but at least you get the choice.
What I am worried about is if my AT&T cable modem goes AOL. I can't get DSL at the moment in my neighbourhood - otherwise I would have hooked that up and got a static IP address. I guess that if I get AOL'ed I will simply have to pay for a T1 and see if I can rent my basement space out to folk who want to co-loc.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I don't think Microsoft has to pay for their own software.
I have been using the USWest/Qwest DSL for just about 3 years now. And to hear this news almost makes me want to puke!
I think that this is the biggest mistake that Qwest could ever make. At home I run a mix of both M$ Win2K machines and Linux boxes and knowing M$ they probably find away to stop that.
I have allready called into Qwest and wrote what I concider some serious nasty letters (I won't go into what I said in them here) and expressed my disgust with them.
But we will see what happens, I know from the other people I have talked to that also use DSL from USWest/Qwest have also said they are not looking forward to changing their e-mail names to whogivesacrap@msn.com or whatever it will be. Enuf said.
I wonder how this will affect Qwest overall. For those that don't know the story about Qwest, if I'm not mistaken, the company was working with a railraod company, and laying fiber alongside the tracks of the railroad, when the internet was in its infancy stage.
;\
Anyways one thing I know is Qwest owns a hell of a lot of dark fiber, and I know MS would love to get their hands on some of it for their MS.NET world. I wonder if Qwest unloaded because they were losing money, or could this be the staging for a future rival to AOL-TW. Qwest is pumping out about 15+ billion $ so I can't see them needing money that bad now.
3 days till launch
360 degrees of Karma
that's what I always say!
Qwest is a baby bell, because they've got a baby bell in their big old fat belly. and now MS is Qwest is a baby bell, because the digestion just keeps churnin' away!
I like to eat beans better than I do babies. Eating babies is just fucked up.
What the hell is this shit?
I've never used MSN, nor have I known anyone who's used it. I realize it is a MS product, but can anyone give me an unbiased opinion on MSN? Does it suck or is it decent?
Since they *did* buy Qwest, the service can't really get shittier...
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
1) I think MS is going to more or less leave the service unchanged, they'd be foolish not to. Remember, home users aren't the only ones on Qwest DSL, there's plenty of bussiness class lines too. I'm guessing that when you subscribe to qwest.net residential service it will now come with a warm and fuzzy MSN welcome CD that will setup and configure it all for you and install all the silly MS features like MSN mesanger if you like, but nothing will change other than that. As is, they send you a CD with a customized version of netscape and so on, but you don't have to install it, I never did. The hardware is just a plain Cisco 678 DSL router,it doesn't care what's on your system.
2) If the MSN service sucks, we can just switch over. Qwest.net is not mandidated with a Qwest DSL line (that would break regulations), you are free to choose other ISPs and there are around 15 others in Tucson where I live. I'm with qwest.net because I feel they do the best job but The River or Dakotacom would be more than happy to take my bussiness if Qwest/MSN start doing a bad job.
3) Supposing the whole thing really goes to hell, we can always just switch off to another kind of broadband. Cox (or whomever your local cable provider is ) offers cable modems, Sprint offers wireless, and so on. Supposing the overall service gets real bad, it's real easy to jump ship.
Basically, I think this move is more centred around the technophobe/AOL type person. Qwest DSL never was very friendly, and MSN will help that image. However, I seriously doubt they'll do anything silly to harm power users/bussinesses.
OH and for those of you that think Microsoft will spy on it's customers, get real. IF you're really worried go get a copy of Tiny Personal Firewall and it'll verify it.
I moved to arizona about 6 months ago, and before that I had never heard of qwest (I lived in new jersey) altough I had seen ads for US West internet (now qwest) services in magazines years earlier. Just wanted to say that in the short time that I've been here, I've come to the conclusion that qwest is just as evil as microsoft (and just as terrible at customer service). I have since switched to verizon, and although many people think they are evil too, I have had no problems yet, and they are cheaper than qwest, and their customer service is excellent. As for internet, I did use the cable company (Cox [@home]), but because of severe financial setbacks I'm down to using dialup with at&t, but soon I should be back to good 'ol cable. They offer $30/mo. 3mbps service :)
make your time, cause the future of the net is here. presenting you with... *BAM* MSN service... whheter you like it or not. /does a little dance like Liza Minelli did singing that "Money,Money,Money" song in that "old" movie.
I've been using Qwest for a year or two now, and I'll be looking into other options as well. Speakeasy is almost certainly going to be the one I go with. At this point, long-term stability is going to be a major factor in my decision. I have some friends who are employees at Speakeasy, and from what I hear from them, they seem to be making some smart operating decisions that will serve them in the long haul (diversifying away from Covad, etc.). Here in Seattle, there are a lot of people using Speakeasy, and I haven't met an unhappy customer yet. Qwest was borderline evil anyway, this MS thing just makes if official.
Here's a recent article from the Economist on Microsoft which asks the question, "has Microsoft changed its ways?"
I respect the Economist quite a bit because they have built up a solid reputation over a long period of time.
I can't say the same for Microsoft.
I'm not suggesting that I agree with putting down Microsoft at every opportunity, but they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt when trying to figure out their motives behind an action.
"The only rights you have are the rights you are willing to fight for."
I see.
[Okay boys, they want to go that-a-way, so that's where to install the curving runway to herd them into our pen.]
--
Well I hear that excite @ home has some financial troubles. Maybe MSN will buy them. And then maybe they'll kick me off their network for using an "incompatible" OS such as linux.
===> An eye for an eye makes everyone blind - MG
The same thing could happen to me since Time Warner and AOL have merged: my cable could become "AOL Cable." *Gasp*
I am a current DSL subscriber through QWest, and even if they sell out their stuff, it doesn't really matter to me, as I have all my own internal stuff......SMTP, DNS, HTTP, HTTPS, Firewall, blah, blah.... and a bank of static IP's to go with it......A little natting here and there.....it's all good. If they decide to start getting out of the copper lines too, then i'll have to revisit it. Right now it's not an issue, because I use all my own internal equipment. The service (as far as uptime) has been pretty decent. I would like to use regular routing equipment to standardize things, and make things easier for me..... 98 percent of the email that I get through the QWest mailbox is spam anyway.... I just delete it, and move on.... "It's really easy to screw up, but to do it right, you need root...."
No disagreement here, but things do get to be a tad predictable on /. at times, with me sharing some of the guilt.
"Anonymous Coward" is for whistleblowers, not unpopular opinions.
I mean I sign up with ISP. Don't I have a contract to stay with that ISP.
But that ISP is allowed to "sell" me to another ISP.
AOL is of the same necessary 'aquiring' evil as Microsoft. the only reason we somewhat root for AOL is because they are the ONLY competition on the MAP!
IE vs Netscape... Netscape's inferior, (these days, tho I like and use mozilla) but IE is bloatware MS crap with no competition.
With Microsoft buying out Qwest, etc, we have no chance of having decent service, because innovation is stifled in mergers.
Microsoft, in 50 years, will own EVERYTHING
QWEST is just another little aquisition... soon, I will go to the MS-Grocery Store, buying freshly squeezed Gates Juice. After that, I'll pick up some fast food (I'm lazy) at Mc-Micro's. There will be a Microburger with a side order of fries.NET.
Or, perhaps they will fall to a lower state... like IBM. One can only cross one's fingers.
One day we will either be Microsoft or AOL. I am so unhappy about the lack of choices NOW. A company that big, very often, gives BAD service and even worse support. Joy.
The internet is no longer enjoyable; it's depressing.
(The inspiration for that hit me while in a meeting. I probably shouldn't have blurted it out with my manager sitting next to me.)
Kathleen
--
Graphic designer and Mac lover.
Kathleen
--
Graphic designer and Mac lover.
Yes.
I use verizon as my DSL provider, and when you sign up, you choose a "GSP," which is either qwest or some other company I don't remember. I recall at the time being told by someone that it didn't matter which one I chose, so I think I chose qwest. Anyone know what kind of impact this deal will have on someone in my situation?
For Customers of Qwest.net,(like me), you might want to examine your new Acceptable Use Polocy.
? br andkey=sub&titleimgkey=sub&keywordkey=sub&ContentP g=content/subscriberagreement.htm
. ht ml
http://supportservices.msn.com/us/netstatus.asp
It doesn't appear to be that bad, from my first read over. However, I would imagine, with the addition of many DSL customers it will change. One of the key selling points for DSL with me is that Qwest/USwest, did not care what services you ran off your DSL modem. I run http, ftp, stmp, pop3, Counter-Strike, and Tribes 2 servers off my DSL line. I would not be suprised if MSN changed their AUP to stop people from running servers, to somthing similiar to @home.
The Qwest.net AUP is available here:
http://my.qwest.net/nav4/acct_tools/con/account
-FireChipmunk
Can you say - Big Brother?
So they're monitoring my actions using sw that isn't compatible with my OS. At least they'll be selling my personal info to 3rd parties. Unless I opt out on some obscure page which I have to re-opt out of every quarter.
I think I have the username I want: irritated@EvilEmpire.net
I guess I'll be switching ISPs shortly...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
Or check out these guys www.soncom.com I was one of their first customers. I've always been 100% happy with the service. Every problem I've ever had they've quickly taken care of. I know they will give out a static IP, and they will even give you bridging mode if you wish.
What hooked me up with qwest was (A) fairly comprehensive services; (B) good rates, since I'm a qwest phone customer; and (C) decent access.
I won't jump MSN, no matter how much I dislike the company behind it, as long as they preserve the three criteria above. "Comprehensive services" means POP3, Usenet (and not just the microsoft.* groups), and any other services I chose to use (for instance, peer-to-peer client/servers).
I'm absolutely not paying money to MSN for IP dialtone and then shelling out more for usenet services. From the reports I've read, this is a high likelihood. And if so, then I'm outta here. I live in a pretty serious @home catchment area, and all I need is just one excuse to make the jump to cable broadband.
John L. Schuncke, Jr. jlschuncke@bigfoot.com
John L. Schuncke, Jr. jlschuncke@bigfoot.com
Warning: You're takin' this WAAAY too seriously.