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Really Targeted Advertising
wiredog points to an LA Times article titled "The TV's Eye Is Set on You." The Times summarizes the story like this: "With cable technology that tracks viewers' habits, two neighbors watching the same show will see different commercials. Practice could begin next spring." The ends actually sounds pretty attractive to me (turn off those embarassing-product ads, please!), but the means (ongoing collection of data about each household) certainly don't.
If they figure out that I don't like any kind of advertisement, will they turn them off altogether?
...............$33.05
Or, more likely, they'll put a surcharge on my cable bill! I can see the line item now:
Poor Consumer Surcharge
So what happens if you are in the demographic of "25 year old male who does not want to see commercials"? That'd fit me perfectly, and I would be quite happy to never see another commercial in my life. I don't buy things based on commercials, and occasionally I will specifically NOT buy things that have stupid ads. My own quirkiness I guess.
The problem with targetted marketting is you eliminate the impulse buying. If I only ever saw computer ads, how would the toothpaste people make money off me. I see a random ad that tells me I can whiten my teeth and become more attractive to the opposite sex if I get toothpaste brand 'X', decide I need it and go out and buy it. With targetted marketing I might never see this ad and remain ugly the rest of my life.
The way that advertising works right now is basically 'show everything to everybody' and it "works" I guess. Just because I never wears womens shoes doesn't mean that an ad for them wouldn't remind me that I need to get my sister/wife/girfriend a gift and hey, shoes is a good idea.
I say it "works" because I'm not sure how well, but everyone does it so it must be good right?
Strangely enough, studies have shown than little girls will watch boy's cartoons, but boys won't watch girl's cartoons. Hence, those ads probabally WERE targeted at the little girls watching boys cartoons demographic. This is also why "She-ra" was summoned from the pits of hell, but that's a different story.
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
I read the internet for the articles.
/me looks around
You mean to tell me this isn't paradise?
Oh...
...j
Yes. And I don't know about you, but I rarely ever actually see toilet paper ads, and when I do they sure as hell don't talk about how they have "superior wiping ability" or "keep your shit from staining your underwear" or anything else analogous to the damn tampon ads.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
You are disqualified: The choice involving cowboyNeal makes sense :P
An extra button on the remote: "Do not ever show me the current commercial again." I know I'd buy one.
Do you think it's gross? Does it make you nervous?
It's just a part of being female, or are you part of the 'eve's curse' crowd, who see it as evidence of original sin?
When it's my turn to do the laundry, I stainstick my wife's panties and go on with my life. No big deal.
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
You know, I think it's all based on the misconception that anyone actually gives a rat's ass what you're watching on TV. Have you ever been on the "other side" of this sort of thing? I have, and you know what? There's absolutely no reason to even care. They know what they're broadcasting, and they can tell that 10% of their viewers were on chanel 9 at 10pm.
I mean seriously, do you expect someone to come up and knock on your door and arrest you for watching blue's clues or something?
yeah, we're all sheep. To parahprase somebody else, I don't know about you man but my eyes are wide f'in open. If you believe that "evil corporations" are gonna turn you into sheep, it's only because you let it happen. Like many of the other posters, If I don't have to watch ads for stuff about hemmoroids and soap operas, more power to em! I'd LIKE to see ads that are for stuff I would actually buy.
You talk of the "erosion" of privacy and I can understand that, but there are certain things that would never matter. What possible harm could come of someone knowing what you watch on TV?
I dont' really know about all this targeted advertising bullshit.
As soon as I bought a house, I was innundated with ads for credit cards, ads for storm windows, ads for aluminium siding, the fucking works.
Just because it's targeted does not mean it's targeted INTELLIGENTLY.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
As for the people who choose to have TV, if they are going to target you with ads, you should demand that the service become cheaper or free. If you are still paying $30-$40 a month for cable, and the cable company is selling ads for more money then you are being used.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
This type of thing has been going on with magazine subscriptions for a very long time. I've done some work with database marketing companies and they scrutinize their customers (and potential customers) very closely using sophisticated software and big mainframes.
The result is a technique called "selective binding" which determines exactly which half-dozen annoying little cards fall out of your magazine when you open it. You and your neighbor might both have subscriptions to Basket Weaving Digest magazine, but if the database marketing company knows that you're a drinker and your neighbor is a smoker (for example), you'll receive different inserts with different advertising.
It's very lucrative for both advertising companies and the database marketing companies they work with. It's not surprising that television is moving this way as well.
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Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
No, I'm not talking about breaking into the box, I'm talking a little social survey engineering.
When you're not watching TV, set it to a channel you don't usually watch and turn the TV itself off. For example, I'd set it to Univision and then see how long it takes for commercials in Spanish to start showing up on the other stations.
-dwd-
Women, do you have a secret? Do you have a special visitor? Are the painters in at the moment? Feeling strangely averse to swimming? Are you riding your tiny bike?
Then shut the fuck up about it, because Jon here is a little uncomfortable with the concept of menstruation.
Quite simply put, menstruation is God's curse to womenkind because of Eve's actions in the Garden of Eden. If she hadn't have corrupted Adam, then we would still be living in Paradise.
And, without that act we wouldn't know joy, for without bad, good is arbitrary. Even if Adam and Eve would have been able to reproduce in a perfect state (possible?), their children (us) would not know that Paradise was so good.
For me, I'd much rather have some evil in the world. When I have a bad day, the good things in my life stand out all the more brightly.
Jeremy
Hi-Technical Excellent Taste and Flavor!
I *almost* hate this idea, but not quite. As for me, I think it might have one vaild use:
Using this system, I (as a male) might be freed from watching commercial after commercial for femenine hygiene products!
This capability in itself might be enough to get me to give away any shred of privacy I had.
.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
That just gave me shivers... :( Scarry.
I must be the last person in the US who found that you can live with only broadcast TV. If nothing is on, go ride a bike.
Don't watch TV. It's like a direct link into your OWN HOME for advertisers.
Cable TV is worse because you're paying for the opportunity to be swamped with ads! Wonderful!
Reminds me of 1984. There, every party member has a TV home, which is constantly doing commercials for Big Brother (or something like that), and you can turn down the sound, but you can't turn off the TV. The TV is on 24 hours a day.
That is certainly not the life I want :( Though in 1984 they also have your kids spying on you, cameras all over the place, and always a big picture of Big Brother nearby, whose eyes are following you.
And, yes... If you don't behave properly, they don't shock your hand, they actually erases you. That mean they rewrite the history so it seems you've never excisted!
Well, it is not an impossible scenario. I think the society are becoming more and more like it than the otherway around. There are always people like us fighting against it, but many, many people don't mind (we actually have a program called Big Brother here, where the participants are living constantly watched by cameras for several months, and the worst part is that many people want to participate).
"The assembler gave birth to the compiler. Now there are ten thousand languages." - Tao of Programming
Our TV is so old that the volume-button is trashed. And if you turn off the TV you have to tune in all the channels again. So if you want to see program a at 17, and program b at 21, you'll normally just let the TV pounder all that bad stuff in the meantime.
But luckily I don't watch much TV ;)
"The assembler gave birth to the compiler. Now there are ten thousand languages." - Tao of Programming
Salesmen want to sell. Any sales person that talks to me either figures out in the first 5 seconds that he will have to answer my question, or he doesn't get the sale.
Marketing people NEVER answer questions. Their purpose is to manipulate my opinion.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
You nailed down my exact reasons why marketing is annoying to me. The goal of marketing is to cause me to buy something that I normally wouldn't have by subverting my reasoning process. If the product was the best, and I required that product, then marketing wouldn't be needed because I would have chosen that product.
My dislike for marketing doesn't spill over into sales. Sales is essential for a couple reasons. First, salesmen can answer my questions, or run around like mad trying to answer my questions. They provide information to me that I can use to make my decision. Second, if I have technical support that is lousy, professional sales people are always a great point of contact. I just call them up, tell them that I am disappointed with my technical support. After I hang up, the sales person walks back to the tech support people and kicks their ass for me, because they want to sell to me in the future.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
I don't want to see adverts for tampons or other such things which a) mean nothing to me, and b) shouldn't be aired publicly anyway.
You have clearly never watched an ad for a feminine hygene product or for toilet-paper for that matter.
If you had, you would know that they are so obtuse as to be confusing. You really wouldn't know what they were advertising if it weren't for repeated use of the name.
I completely fail to see why adverts like this shouldn't be aired. Perhaps because it reminds you of one of the messier aspects of the human condition? Get a grip man.
as an insider I can tell you that it is very cool, will only happen in markets that have cablemodems/digital cable working well, and we already collect a crapload of info on you already.
you think that Tvio can collect alot of info, the motorola digital boxes can collect 10X more information about the viewer. The next generation boxes have a 2 way link to the remote (Kinda like the DMX boxes have.) so you could even collect info such as if the remote is even pointing at the box (or is able to communicate to it) what serial number the remote is, and the battery condition in the remote. add an inertia sensor and we can measure how often you scratch yourself!
get used to having every part of your life recorded and scrutinized for advertising potential,and sale.. because there's BIG money in it.
BTW, I mentioned this over 5 months ago, and it's just now getting into slashdot?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Advertising is more or less a fact of life, so I don't think targeting is necessarily such a bad thing. If I'm forced to sit through ads, I'd rather see ads for things I might actually be interested in instead of commercials about that 'unfresh feeling'.
What I would really like is to not see ads for things I've alrady bought. Nothing pisses me off more than watching ads for DirecTV on my DirecTV system.. Hello? Its like having printed ads for literacy - why bother?
But I don't watch tv much anyway, so it doesn't matter to me.
Is being on the internet 24/7 really all that much better than watching tv? I don't think so myself, personally...
What is there to explain? You like porn. Best to find a girl who is fine with that then trying to hide it.
Q.
I didn't mean to suggest these two things would be the same product. Although that's an interesting idea. It could be one of the most wonderful developments for women, ever!
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Well, thanks to timeshifting and the fast-forward button, interruptive comercials are irrelevant anyway. So they're going to have to somehow do product placement dynamically. I'm going to see Bender suddenly turn to the camera, hold up a bottle of Samual Adams, and say, "This is great beer!" while my neighbor, watching the same show, gets a scene where Leela casually mentions what she buys whenever she gets that not-so-fresh feeling. Hmm...
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Indeed. Haven't watched more than five minutes without getting disgusted at the lowest-common-denominator approach, getting up, and turning it off in at least a year.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
That's funny, but here in Toronto, Rogers Cable has been advertising the Playboy channel pretty heavily in the last few month as part of their "Digital Choice" Cable!
I can tell you one thing, though: since I bought my first TV w/remote 5 years ago, I've built up a quick-trigger finger on the "mute" button. I urge everyone else to do the same: it'll stop the torment of those friggin new "aren't we so cool" Microsoft Office XP ads!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
You started off intelligently
And then you showed you are a moron or, I hope for the sake of your wife/mother/daughter, just a troll:
I don't want to see adverts for tampons or other such things which a) mean nothing to me, and b) shouldn't be aired publicly anyway.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
That's yet another in a long list of reasons not to have a TV.
What really bothers me is that there can be (are?) ISPs who monitor traffic and sell the data to companies like Doubleclick.
Does a tin-foil helmet work over ethernet?
Shiny side in, out, or only on 10-base-T?
bukra fil mish mish
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Monitor the Web, or Track your site!
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
i actually saw a commercial for a brand of 'ribbed' toilet paper that they said 'helps keep your whites whiter'. i can only assume it helps "keep your shit from staining your underwear".
BS ALERT
Ads on TV are targeted by show the same way banner ads are tageted by web site.
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
For my summer internship, I'm working for one of the leaders in the field: Visible World. I can't say a whole lot (signed an NDA), but I'll answer any questions that don't violate that agreement if you want to post replies to this message. It's really pretty exciting.
AJS
does this mean an end to the days where 2,000 families in iowa determine what programming gets kept and what goes because of our culture's weird worship of nielson numbers?
I just live without TV.
You're going to have TV with an 'eye' that laserpinpoints your eyeball movements and makes sure that you're actually watching the ads by seeing if the laser reflects off of your retina. If you're not watching, an electrode that MUST be inserted in your arm in order to start up the TV will be sent a series of electric shocks until your eyeball is properly aligned again.
I think more research needs to be done into 'Blipverts', first seen in Canadian near-future SF TV program Max Headroom...
deus does not exist but if he does
i wonder how they will get this working with dishnetwork/directv/et al.
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
I'm sure this is true, but again it misses the point a bit. "Brand recognition" doesn't (necessarily) mean "brand lust." An ad's job had been done (again, generally speaking) if you're aware that you could buy the product and are willing to consider it. The extent to which advertising is itself responsible for taking the next step and convincing you to select a particular product over another one varies widely by product type, but the brand-recognition step is common (and most important) to all of them.
This isn't really the purpose of most advertising, and certainly not the purpose of the examples given here. For better or worse, advertising builds brand recognition in the hope that, when you buy something, you'll think of the advertised brand/product and at least consider buying it. Coke, McDonald's, The Gap . . . they don't need to advertise to tell you about their products (though they might also do that); they advertise to make sure you remember that they exist and that they offer for sale something you might like.
Incidently - and has been pointed out here before - this is one of the reasons that the importance (to advertisers if not to web sites) of click-through rates for (most) banner ads is vastly overstated. Other than infomercials, most ads aren't intended to spur immediate purchases.
For this reason, it's not simply a matter of ignoring advertising. It's certainly possible to resist advertising, but that's not the same thing. If you even think about buying your next pair of pants from The Gap (or Levi's, or Haggar, etc.), you've already done exactly what the advertiser wanted you to do. You aren't evil, you aren't a sucker, you aren't even abnormal, but you are an operating part of the system. How much it's worth to you to try to avoid advertising altogether or to reject consciously every brand you've ever seen advertised (which is about the only way to avoid its effects) is an individual call.
Not everyone uses crappy Intel processors. Quite a few people use PPC based solutions or AMD(when was the last time you saw an AMD commercial?).
I have dish network satellite service. I have the dish PVR 501 (I think new subscribers can get it for $150 or so). It has a 40g hard disk. When I record channels with commercials, there is a skip button that jumps over them. None of this Tivo fast-forward only. And the NASA channel doesn't have commercials.
As far as privacy, there is a phone connection on the box that I've never connected. (It caches pay-per-view purchases and periodically will call and upload them). But I never bought any (I already get all the movie channels).
Works for me.
I first realized they (i.e., Comcast Cablevision in MD) could do this when my wife had a phone conversation with one of their service reps that went something like:
[Rep]: Maam, please tune to channel 3
[Wife]: I am on 3
[Rep]: No...you're on 5
I returned the digital cable box the next day. (This was a year or so ago.)
Well, yeah... I mean, digital cable is really nothing more than multi-cast UDP packets, with authorization packets on a per-channel basis that pass the key you need to decode the signal. Your box asks for authorization from home base, and then you get the key back.
*shrugs*
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
So, while you're away camping for a week, your 16-year old brings his friends over and they watch the playboy channel. When you come back, how do you get rid of all the 'directed' pornography adds on your TV? "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking it."
Well, one way would be to child-lock the Playboy channel...
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
I've got a tv tunercard in my pc. I wonder what they make of that?
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Drat! Never again will the phrase "Feminine hygiene commercial, everybody drink!" be heard in my domicile's hallowed halls.
do they tell when your tv or your cable box is off? because I leave the cable box on all day(and nite) but I turn the tv off. now since I watch cartoon network would I only get bombarded with childrens ads?
I don't use eleetism in my Email
Which brings up a bigger question; after 100 years of modern advertising in America, why are so many still so gullible? It shocks me all the time.
I still think that targeted advertising is greatly misunderstood. The power of modern advertising is its vast scale - "As seen on TV". I don't think targeted ads are going to be much more effective. If your friend hasn't seen that ad where the woman farts in the car, chances are you won't talk about it over the water cooler. And, to really make targeted ads effective, you really have to understand your audience. That takes work, and means lots of extra effort to reach a smaller and smaller audience. The difficulty of that, which is great, may negate the increased effectiveness.
But what about a world where everyone is sophisticated enough to realize that Coke doesn't add life, that talking ducks don't solve your insurance needs, and that drinking Budweiser is unlikely to attract hordes of Bud-drinking hotties all wanting to meet you? Advertisers would be limited to conveying useful information (yes, "we can afford this expensive ad" is informative).
Here's a tip; don't be swayed by ads! If you buy a product you saw advertised, buy it because it's cheaper, or demonstrably better, or you have no choice. Change your product loyalties the second those things change. If you think "Nikes must be better than XYZ shoes because they are Nike" then you are still gullible. Now watch them twist in the wind trying to figure out how to get you to buy crap.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
If I wanted to know what my kids were up to, I'd have a conversation with them.
Watching TV to get hints seems like a really unlikely way to connect with my kids.
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
Of course, then they'll probably figure out a way to override my picture in picture...
what in GOD'S NAME is that blue stuff?
Err, a euphemism? I suppose that using red stuff would be closer to the point, but which would you rather see while you're eating?
If I move into an apartment, the previous renter having watched an ungodly amount of pr0n, and the cable company forgets to flush their viewing habit records, am I going to get flooded with commercials for aphrodisiacs and french ticklers?
Based on the replies so far, this is vastly perferable to the average Slashdotter than the UNGODLY HORROR OF TAMPON COMMERCIALS!
I'm not going to buy any of the crap they're trying to sell.
:)
Perhaps you really meant "I'm not going to change my buying habits based on a commercial", because unless you live in a cave I find it difficult to believe that you've never bought anything that you've seen a commercial for. I bet your electric company does commercials, are you off the grid in protest?
So, as long as they include a way to turn off all ads, I'll be happy.
The ads pay for the content. Turn off the ads, turn off the content, and everything becomes pay-per-view. Be careful what you wish for.
Yup :-) Sometime in Season VIII
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
From what I understand, for a few days every month, women like to pour blue liquid on things, play tennis and wear tight white jeans.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
I don't dreak any alcohol. Does that mean I can't watch the beer-commercials with bikini babes ?
Didnt Kryten say that in Red Dwarf 7?
Also: I live in a van down by the river! :)
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I've been thinking about this for a while, it's kind of entertaining (and scary) to actually try to figure out what demographic the show you're watching is trying to sell to.
Sometimes, when I'm watching some show, and see lots of ads for said products (ie, tampax, whatever that new acne-fighting birth-control pill is called) I get to thinking -- is this show primarily watched by women?
Or when I see adds for Viagra/alternatives to the big V, I get to wondering how many younger guys are watching the same show.
What really throws me is when I'm watching late night TV, and there's an ad for some kids sing-a-long tape set or something.. weird stuff..
Anyway, this prolly seems offtopic, but, I too, won't mind seeing ads for products that I might actually buy.
Then again, the thing that really pisses me off about commercials isn't the 3 minute break from the "content" but the brainwashing frequency of the commercials. I HATE seeing the same ad for the same product (Destiny's Child - Survivor comes to mind) EVERY commercial break for 2 hours straight.. drives me nuts. Wonder if tightening the demographic on a user-by-user basis will ultimately increase the frequency of individual ads..
Nope, maybe the second-last, but not the last.
I tried it by accident (couldn't be bothered to order cable when I moved into my new place a few years ago) and discovered I didn't miss cable. OK, I miss Babylon 5, but it's all reruns anyways. And I don't miss it to the tune of $40/month.
While travelling on business this year, I wound up in a hotel with full cable for a week, and was amazed to discover that the probability there's something on worth watching was pretty much the same as it was at home, so I grabbed a TV guide from the newsstand and figured that I'd probably watch no more than an hour of "new TV" a week if I went from my current 9-channel universe to the 50-channel cable subscription.
57 channels and nothin' on, indeed.
Of course, I'm in the Bay Area, and can get three PBS stations, which goes a long way during pledge weeks. (Woo-hoo, a few months ago, the entire Season 7 of Red Dwarf in an all-day marathon, and four hours of Dr. Who last weekend!)
Sounds like a great way to discourage the 16-year-old from watching the Playboy channel.
"Son, I know you can h4x0r around the child-lock, so I'm not gonna bother. But we both know you can't fake out the TV's spyware. And if you can, hell, you've earned the right to watch all the pr0n you want, as long as you tell me how you did it!"
And what part of "individually-addressable" didn't you understand when it came to cable boxen?
Big price in PR damage? Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact that Doubleclick is continuing to amass data, waiting for the day when they can get away with it.
When will the data collectors be able to link profiles to real identities without a big price in PR damage? When the people who...
> just a little to automatically paranoid about data. Kneejerk reaction whenever the topic comes up...
> Why is everyone so freaked out about collection of consumer data? [ ... ] Why does everyone see this as
a bad thing?
When only outlaws have privacy, privacy will be outlawed.
What, you think it's the same set of people that's been subjected to advertisements for the past 100 years?
For now, I mute the things and do something else for 15 minutes until the next 5 minute block of program..
So then, where does it end? Where do we draw the line. When do we say enough is enough? So the cable companies know your TV viewing habits. Now this digital cable thingy is going to sell you stuff "they" know you like because "they" know about what you do, how much you make, how old you are, what gender you are, etc, etc. And while most people will buy into this and say "yeah, this is great! no more commercials that don't pertain to me, now that's a smart TV," "they" are taking away your right to choose. "They" are choosing for you what to buy. "They" are turning you into the subserviant consumer that "they" want you to be. Then "they" will whore your information to big corporations where "they" can better learn to control you. Doesn't anybody care about "privacy" anymore?
"Freedom of choice is what you got. Freedom from choice is what you want." -Devo
deli-x
Turn off your television, don't watch cable. You are not missing much. If you are reading this you are perfectly capable of going to CNN or a national newspaper for news. Stop watching soap-opera esque crap like BUFFY, it is boring and a fucking waste of time.
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microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Are you CRAZY?
I WANT to see commercials about tampons, I want to hear "Are you one of the millions of American males who would like increased sexual energy?" and "Not all women are satisfied with their bust size". I don't give a SHIT about any of those things, and I will never, ever buy them or anything related to them.
If all of a sudden the TV knows I'm a nerd, I get flooded with Computer Associate and Singular ads, not the mention the "This company just merged with another company, and their databases are compatible because they use" Mircosoft commercials. When I go to buy something, I want my judgement to be based on the product, not on the (subconcious, unavoidable) advertising.
I say keep the Viagra, Bowflex, and Rogaine commercials coming my way.
Nothing in my computer, has had a commercial about it. Nothing. There isn't much of anything on the boob toob that I will buy. Given the fact that I do have digital cable, I think that it is funny that they will try to profile me by what I watch. I am alwasy flipping thru the channels when a commercial comes on any way.
You can be replaced by a very small shell script.
Maybe I'm missing something, but none of us are safe from Massengil ads!
My wife watches some shows and I watch others. Guess what? Sometimes we watch together! Since they don't know who is watching when, there will be a profile on my account that includes:
Douching/Tampons/Potpourri
Window Blinds/Curtains
The Softer Side of Sears
Gateway Computers
Bud Girls (oops Budweiser)
Pr0n
Until you have to keep a thumbprint on the zapper to watch, they are not going to be able to profile the home watcher effectively.
Crash
"The difference between theory and practice is small in theory and large in practice..."
Just you wait 'till they hook it all up together .... pretty soon they will notice you haven't bought toilet paper for a while and ALL the ads become ads for TP .... then you notice that you only see ads for the brands of TP that you DON'T buy ....
This has nothing to do with digital or analog. Both are very easily trackable based on the reflection from impedance mismatch (theres always some). Not only can they tell what channel your watching, but also how many TV's you have, approximately where they are in your home (distance from jack in wall, and distance jack is from the one in the basement) as well as whether you have good or poor reception :).
Those are quite easy to do for a college electronics graduate. Digital cable actually makes it *slightly* more difficult in that additional electronics are required on your end rather than just theirs.
Now, the neat part is you can actually see if they're looking for your reflections based on their reflections of your reflections. I've always wanted to be in mid channel change when they take a look but haven't put together the 'black box'.
Rod Taylor
The ads pay for the content. Turn off the ads, turn off the content, and everything becomes pay-per-view. Be careful what you wish for.
Except we are talking about CATV, which one has to pay for. Thats what annoys me, especially about HBO..you're paying for it, but you STILL have ads. Although they are less prominate on HBO.
Yes, i know that..i've had HBO for a while.
Personally i find most ads annoying, but am greatful at least when something finally does start, its not interupted.
For those outside of the southwestern US: Jack in the Box has the funniest ad campaigns ever. I flip channels to CATCH those ads, not miss them.
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By which you mean, "two neighbors watching the same show will change channels to AVOID different commercials." Yup, truly an advertising in-no-vation.
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I agree that I rather see ads that appeal to me as oppose to ads that just waste my time. However, the concern here is not that advertisers will be more effective. The concern surrounds basic privacy. The question has to be asked, what else will the cable companies do with the information. Will I begin to receive phone calls from the Sierra Club just because I watched an episode of Nature? Will my name be submitted to a massive database that could be accessible potentially by the public? "Sorry Pete, but you don't get the job. We're not interested in people who watch Cartoons all day." Worse, how about our kids. I don't want some company building up a profile on my kids. Targeting them with luring adds. Do you want your kid to watch a TV commericial that says, "Hey Danny, you should really buy this RasterBlasterX11. Your buddies Tommy and Rodney got one, so you better if you don't want them to think you are a loser." Will it be OK for the school to request your kid's lifelong TV viewing habits on the college admission application? If that information is public, what possible ethical objection could you have? Should your insurance company or bank have access to these records? Who owns the information? You or the cable company? Should you be allowed free access to it? I'd personally prefer anonimity.
Someone you trust is one of us.
"People love to buy things, but they hate to be sold things."
I think that about sums things up. It's always made sense to me.
Incidently, if it matters, I think I heard that from my Dad. He was a salesman, but at least understood the idea that he's there to give information when asked for it.
Jason
I didn't say "my kids", I said "kids" as in, "in general" ... And that was just one example.
Sure, talking to people face-to-face is always the best way to learn about something, but not the only way. My point is that TV, and therefore TV advertising, is ONE of the many important ways we learn about out society and our surroundings.
I'm 22, and I don't have kids to talk to, and I can't really think of a better way to quickly figure out what kind of things little kids are into these days than turning on some Saturday morning cartoons (or Nickelodeon, etc.) and watching the ads.
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
Despite the benefits that targeting advertising brings (more stuff that's more relevant to you), I think we'd be missing out on what has really become an an important aspect of American culture (as lame as that sounds.)
:)
;)
Advertising is the medium through which many of our cultural "themes" get passed. Let's say you're an older guy (50+)...how would you feel, for example, if you never actually saw a Mountain Dew or MTV ad? Wouldn't you want to know what kids these days are up to?
I WANT to know what other people are buying -- I'm curious about "what's out there". When I was a teenager, how else would I have ever discovered what the hell this "douche" thing was if I didn't ask my girl friends what the "that not so fresh feeling" actually meant?
I remember a few months ago I went out to L.A. for the first time (I live in Boston) and I was AMAZED at the sheer number of 'Get Bigger Breasts' or 'Dr. blah-blah's Plastic Surgery Center' etc. ads that were on TV and the radio (and I'm not kidding.) It was a way for me to get a snapshot, as lame as it is, of what's important to some people out there.
That kind of information is important, and I'd feel significantly more out of touch without it.
Of course, there's always AdCritic.
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
Since all sorts of data collection happens anyway (grocery store cards, credit cards, direct and indirect marketing, profiles, etc.) I'd much rather have targeted advertising than not. While we do need to be very careful about what kind of information is shared, I really don't care that my grocery store knows I buy vegetarian foods, and I'd rather see ads for Morningstar Farms or Boca than for Foster Farms or Tyson.
The Good Reverend
I'm different, just like everybody else.
Haven't watched in almost 2 years now...
- passion
Although I have no problem with menstruation, I have to say that that was too much information.
--
Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Maybe I'm all by myself on this one, but I don't mind targeted advertising. I realize that it can have some really bad results when used incorrectly, but so can nuclear power, and I support that too.
The convenience of being presented with ads that interest me outweigh the threat that someone will find out what shows I watch, and what times. I know it's alot more involved than that, but for me personally I think it's not a bad thing. I remember buying Computer Shopper back when it was 1/3 of a tree, and I didn't get it for the articles.
I agree it isn't a good thing for everyone, but from my view, it's not the big-brother-fear-inducing move that it might be viewed as. Save that fear for what deserves it.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
Guy's sitting on his couch, stands up to go get a beer during a commercial break...
TV: Hey bitch! Where do you think YOU'RE going?
Man: Er I was going...
TV: Sit your bitch ass back down! You can go do your thing when the show comes back on!
Yeah... that's the future I want to live in...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I just live without TV.
but that means no simpsons!!! argh!!! if you don't count the simpsons, then i don't watch any tv. =) but the simpsons are on three times a day, so that does add up...
i gotta say that a Tivo or ReplayTV is a GREAT way to watch good tv and not have cable. There are plenty of shows you are interested in being broadcast, they just aren't usally on when you want to watch them. with a PVR, there is always something good on (mine is filled with JUST simpsons, and the occaisional Titus -- but whatever floats your boat). i can watch more good tv, but spend less time doing it (no commercials -- instant 30 second jump button).
I don't want to see adverts for tampons or...
I bet that you will still be a target for tampon advertising (or other feminine products). I read once that sometimes they run ads at times they hope men will see them, in order to market to the men who will buy products for their significant others, but are completely brand-unaware (honey, while you're at the grocery store, can you pick me up some tampons?). It makes sense, even tho the market may be much smaller the advertising will work much better (from their perspective).
-rt-
-rt-
** Evil Canadians are taking over the world. Learn about the conspiracy
This degree of targeting is really no different from targeted internet advertising and the like. The end result is simply that we get advertising we might actually be interested in. Is that really a bad thing?
Got Rhinos?
First it was the Internet. Cable TV comes next. Then public TV. Within a decade, billboards are going to be changing just for you as you drive down the street.
Targeted advertising is not the problem. The problem is having personal information about your work and personal life spread around the world on computers that any script kiddie with a few free minutes could get into. How long do you think it will be before this sort of information becomes seizeable and admissible into court?
Charmin knows you better than you think.
Got Rhinos?
I too like the ends ... however, what kind of man can not sit through a tampax comercial? Is it really that bad? I still have the feeling that I will see a lot of car adds no matter what I do!
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
but the means (ongoing collection of data about each household) certainly don't.
Isn't it ironic that the greater the level of understanding about ourselves and our habits, the more uncomfortable we become?
"Shake yur bon bon"
What adverts? I surf with images turned off so the stupid things don't distract me. This is the way things should work.
Isn't technology supposed to conform to MY wishes? I don't want to see any of those things. I prefer to have my thoughts guided by less interested parties, you know, people who don't want a few dollars from me, friends, family.
If adverts are the only way to fund TV, I don't want TV. Simple, eh? There are other ways to get your entertainment and news. Those who want to make a living by entertaining and informing you will find a way to do so.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Shared experience is a very important component of mass media. People like to talk about movies, TV programs, music, and commercials. In fact, a lot of American culture (for better or worse) is centered around the shared experience aspect of mass entertainment. It often, seems this is all people talk about - the latest movie, that latest Bud commercial, the Superbowl commercials. Witness the amount of posts on /. about the Superbowl commercials. A personally tailored commercial delivery system would lose this important component and might render the commercials less effective. In general, I think mass entertainment is successful because of the sense of community it provides people - a common interest shared by almost everyone.
"Tune in next time to Christdot and hear Rev. Jon explain why it's ok to do the nasty with dirty, cursed, sinful females."
Perhaps if the couch potatoes had to pay for their laziness, they would be motivated to be more productive. :)
Guess that would make "World's Most Shocking Videos Part XVII" a little more entertaining, eh?
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
while this is bad for privacy, it's great for killing ads! just connect your cablebox to the internet and have a program hash each frame. it compares these hashes to other people tuned into that channel and ... knowing that there's a commercial on, it mutes the screen. maybe it also hits the 'last channel' feature for you. maybe you'll set it to jump back to your favorite show once it returns from a commercial break. (maybe this has already been done?)
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
Since the goal of marketing is two fold, inform of the products existance, and sway purchase decisions, this has the potential to actually increase the number of annoying commercials you get to see.
I'll pick a popular theme. Let's say I'm a Unix sysadmin, and I subscribe to the usual trade rags, watch X-files, sci-fi channel, etc... They have a pretty complete profile of me, and based on salary, viewing habits, etc..., throw me in the "professional geek" advertising category. Now I get three times the number Micro$oft ads, IBM ads, etc... They have no way of knowing that I may hate M$, and won't buy their products, but dammit, I'll have to watch the ads. Micro$oft will see to that for sure....
Welcome to your own personalized hell...
Temkin
*cough*
What part of "zentec" isn't anonymous?
Probably the part where he posts his real (spam-protected) email address right after it, which is about as non-anonymous as you get on the Internet without writing out your home address or telephone number.
Probably a doctrinal point, though.
--Fesh
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
How do you explain to your girlfriend the fact that you get a lot of pay-per-view porn ads?
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...and probably your phone number. Yet another source of junk mail and phone solicitations. Not horribly scary, but if their profiling is good enough, they could probably offer better returns for mass mailings/phone campaigns than other sources.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
You'd get more junk mail, because there'd be higher return. If they currently get a response rate of 0.5%, and it costs them $0.10 per item sent, then they have to make a profit of $20 on each sale made through direct mail. Now then, if they boost their response rate to 2%, they only need to make a profit of $5 per sale. Hence, it will become profitable to advertise much cheaper, crappier stuff.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Next thing they'll tell us is that ISP's know what sites people go to...
Why shouldn't tampon ads be aired? Seriously..
Isn't that a little childish? What next, toilet paper? Wart ointment? Foot powder?
Man, you are SICK. I'm serious. There something very wrong with you.
Who taught you this crap?
Question for you.. Why do female dogs menstruate? Did they do the nasty in the garden too? Why did "god" punish the little puppies? Are they supposed to get married first?
Anyone else here glad this mentality is going the way of the dodo?
Thank godfor that.
Collect information, but allow me to view and edit that information before it is submited. By doing this, it allows me to correct any errors that may occur in the ai (artificialy incompetent) program. For instance, I enjoyed the movie "The Thomas Crown Affair". It was a great comedy, and made for an enjoyable evening. I do not, however, approve of *explicit* scenes, such as those that occured in the same movie. Giving me the ability to edit information collected prevents the ai from making the assumption that I do approve of those scenes.
Show only advertisements that fit my profile. If you are going to collect information, use it. Don't submit me to ads from a company(who paid more money than I will see in my lifetime) that has no impact on me. Juno had a service(I don't know if they still do) that presented only the ads that fit my profile. I loved it. The only ad they showed was for Welch's Grape Juice!
I'm so glad I live in America and not China.
I never want to worry about big brother.
We love ya Bill!
(When the first XP ad hits my TV screen, I'll be calling the cable company to force them to change my profile!)
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Ok, from what limited knowledge I have, doesn't ads cost more where they are located in the comerical break? Like the first in the break cost the ad company more than the middle one because you've gone to the bathroom durring the middle of the comericals.
What if I my preferences don't rank high enough to warrant an expensive comerical?
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Unfortunately, I already posted to this thread, otherwise I would mod you up. Very insightful post -- you have really hit the nail on the head. Once this data is captured in a database and linked to your identity, you have NO control of how it's going to be used -- it can be subpoenaed, bought, sold, traded, stolen, and misused in more ways you can think of.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
What, me worry?
ThinkGeek get more clickthroughs from
If the TV channels I watch know my demographic, and can get more money for that, that's good for me.
WHY?
-
There are more TV channels coming up every day.
-
There are fixed consumer funds (ie, I've only got so much money to spend)
-
So there more TV channels there are, the less each of them get for advertising. Therefore, the quality of programming goes down.
I'm not giving away privacy; look at it like this: If I say I don't need a loan, I can get rid of all those crazy loan adverts on TV.Of course, I'll get adverts still, but won't have the current situation, whereby every advert seems to be for claiming compensation, or getting a loan (presumably, to pay someone else's compensation!)
Steve
#include <stddiscl.h>
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Well, at least Sci Fi will be in a _great_ bargaining position to sell adspace to girlsgonewild.com.
a) Already own a car and are not planning on purchasing another anytime soon.
b) Are not interested in getting your high school diploma through the mail.
c) Probably won't be purchasing any bras but wouldn't mind seeing more commercials for them.
If the level of advertisement stays the same (or, perhaps, decreases due to successful targeting), this will be great. Less ads for crap I don't want to buy, more ads for crap I do. :)
This sig is xenon coated, and will glow red when in the presence of aliens
You nailed down my exact reasons why marketing is annoying to me. The goal of marketing is to cause me to buy something that I normally wouldn't have by subverting my reasoning process. If the product was the best, and I required that product, then marketing wouldn't be needed because I would have chosen that product.
I used to hate martketing and advertisements for the same reasons, it just seems so manipulative. But looking at it differently, look what marketing has achieved:
Point being, there's a load of content out there that's maintained very cheaply off of subversive marketing. Have I been affected by it, probably (in my case, I can't afford much anyways), but damn I get a lot out of it.
Of course I don't know marketing well, for all I know, there might be a reasonable alternative for similar prices that doesn't include advertisements. But this system seems to work pretty okay.
-j
ugh, I won't let my kids watch the crap that passes for cartoons now, especially on Nick.
Not only is the end nice because, in theory, you'll only have to sit through advertisments that are of interest to you, but the products you buy will likely be cheaper because companies won't have to charge you for distributing adds to people that aren't even interested--I can't wait. Allan
I first realized they (i.e., Comcast Cablevision in MD) could do this when my wife had a phone conversation with one of their service reps that went something like:
[Rep]: Maam, please tune to channel 3
[Wife]: I am on 3
[Rep]: No...you're on 5
I returned the digital cable box the next day. (This was a year or so ago.)
Your monitor is staring at you.
Um, I hate to break this to you, but if you aren't using Junkbuster, chances are you are already being tracked.
Eventually, companies hope to refine the technology to target different viewers in the same family.
Man: "....Ok, honey. Have fun."
(Wife leaves to go shopping.)
(PAUSE)
Cable Box: "PSST. Hey Buddy..."
Man: "???"
Cable Box: "PSST, Over Here.
Man: "Who Said That?!"
Cable Box: "It's me the cable box. Now that the wife is gone, we here at the cable company want to offer you low subscription rates to Playboy Magazine..."
Man: "HUH?!"
-----
-----
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." - Salvador Dali (1904-1989)
My wife and I moved into a new apartment which did not come with cable. I'm a bit too lazy to get on the roof to hook up the antenna, so we just use the TV for the VCR, and get all our news etc. from the Web.
The only thing I miss is the sports. I've spent too many hours at my in-laws over the last couple of months for the NHL playoffs, but I should be good now until Fall.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
Say I watch a lot of ball games and drink a lot of different types of beer. So they start targeting me with baseball merchandise and the latest kind of beer, rather than ads I could care less about. Why does everyone see this as a bad thing?
Similarly, if my grocery store tracks my purchases with some bonus points card, and from that they learn that guys who buy lots of nachos also tend to buy lots of beer, and they start putting the beer close to the nachos, fine by me.
It's only mindless robots that can't control their impulse buying that should be threatened. And those don't seem to be the ones getting their backs up. I know how to pick what I want, if they target and arrange things more effective for me to buy stuff I want anyway, more power to them!
Sometimes people are just a little to automatically paranoid about data. Kneejerk reaction whenever the topic comes up...
If anybody started linking names and anonymous consumer data, yeah, that's bad. But anybody pulling that gets called on it real quick, and pay a big price in PR damage.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
This seems benign, even benificial, as many posters have said. After all, what's the big deal if I get more ads for computer games and more FF and tomb raider trailers than tampons and cleo the psychic (Is she supposed to be Irish or Jamacian? I can't quite tell)
The real danger is how exactly do you think they are going to get the information to target the ads? The shows you watch? Maybe, at first. But that isn't enough information. They need to look somewhere else.
You KNOW they'll end up in bed with online merchants and credit card companies. They'll find out what you have bought and how much you have bought and tailor your ads based on that. That is an unnacceptable violation of privacy.
I urge eveyone to reject consumer culture. If you see an ad for a product, don't buy it if there is another alternative. A generic version is likely the same damn thing, only cheaper because the company that made it doesn't have to pay for ads.
I am not a fucking consumer! Advertising and sitcoms do not define my culture.
-- When a fool hears of the Tao, he will laugh out loud.
Judging by the number of responses to this story expressing hopes that this will result in a serious drop in the number of tampon ads said "nerd" will have to view, I can only conclude that there is a sizable group on Slashdot who are way too uptight and probably need to turn off the TV altogether and go out in the world and meet a real woman at least once before they die. (apologies fo r the run-on sentence)
I do not have a signature
This means when they start doing this, I'll start turning to the scrambled pr0n channels during commercial breaks.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
And if the liberals in the Supreme Court and government hadn't fought so hard against it, you'd have been taught these facts in school.
Quite simply put, menstruation is God's curse to womenkind because of Eve's actions in the Garden of Eden. If she hadn't have corrupted Adam, then we would still be living in Paradise.
Since that fateful day, women have been cursed to shed their life's blood each month, and no amount of liberal persuasion will be enough to "educate" true belivers otherwise.
When my wife sheds blood, she knows that it is her punishment as a women, and is properly ashamed of the flaws of her kind. Displaying it on TV as if it were something to be proud of is nothing more than a sign of Satan's ever present lies.
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Christ, I can't wait until the day when I get to see adverts that at least apply to me rather than "generic consumer X" who is the compound of a thousand flawed consumer surveys.
I don't want to see adverts for tampons or other such things which a) mean nothing to me, and b) shouldn't be aired publicly anyway.
Adverts are evil, but at least this way they'll be an evil I can perhaps use. Whereas with websites targetted advertising is already realistic (just look at the adverts at the top of this page for instance) currently TV adverts must cater to the lowest common denominator, and this means we all have to sit through endless adverts for pet food, pop crap and "feminine hygene" products rather than adverts for products we might actually want.
I'll gladly accept giving companies some info to avoid this kind of rubbish. And I believe I won't be alone in this view.
Jon Erikson, IT guru
'Nuff said.
. . .
Well, nearly enough. --Check this out:
I don't think it's possible to keep TV out of one's life without great effort.
When I moved in with my current room mates, we all decided that we wanted life without TV. It makes perfect sense. Save money and have more hours to live in. Be like the people with lives that everybody watches on TV. Hooray. We expressed this desire to our landlord who lives in the basement. He said, "Yeah. I made the same decision a year ago, called up the cable company and told them to disconnect me. This was surprisingly difficult; they argued and it actually took arm twisting. But they finally sent a guy who chopped the cable and took me off their billing computer. --Except. . . The cable which got chopped was an old and already disconnected one. So now we still get fifty or so channels and don't pay a cent."
So we don't pay for cable, we don't want cable, but there is just enough TV addiction still in the blood that we don't make that final call to have the free cable disconnected.
My opinion:
The Evil Empire wants people plugged in to the brain-wash box for more reasons than simple profit. The only people who have trouble getting cable are the ones who are already brainwashed, and who will eventually plug back in of their own accord. I'm willing to bet that if you really don't want cable, you'll find weird situations like mine pop up in your own life. It's all about mind-control. I honestly believe this.
Of course, most people call me crazy. Problem is, the people who say this are miserable, confused and bitter most of the time. --Whereas I am happy, healthy, well adjusted, sure of myself, and I have lots of friends who all wonder how I do it.
It's dead simple; the only drawback is that the status quo accuses you of being crazy.
Hint: That status quo are wrong. They have been imprisoned in a thousand different ways. You can't break free until you see the bars and learn how to laugh at them.
Okay.
Now it's 'nuff said.
But hey. It's your choice to not think, if that's really what you want. I'd try the alternative just for one week before making such a huge decision, though.
It's a shame that most people live and die without ever realizing that there is even a decision to be made.
Cool post.
The computer at the local 7-11 stores your ATM card and discovers your preference for 'Camel' cigarettes. This information is sold, and since your over 18, you suddenly see ads for the rich, smooth taste of Marlboro.
The big company you work for just laid off 4,000 people, you included. To help costs, they sell a list of canned employees to the cable company. The night you come home, pink slip in hand, the regular ads you see for cars and softdrinks are replaced by 'get rich quick' tapes and jingles for DeVry.
Your 29, single, drive a used car, don't own or plan to buy any major electronics, cook your own food, don't go out, don't travel, and aside from your cable subscription, don't spend much money on anything. You let the cable company know this, and despite your generous salery, all the shows you like to watch get cancled.
The Internet is generally stupid
So, while you're away camping for a week, your 16-year old brings his friends over and they watch the playboy channel. When you come back, how do you get rid of all the 'directed' pornography adds on your TV? "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking it."
TiVo is my solution to every TV-related problem...
I just fast-forward through all the ads anyway. It's really only when I nod off while watching the tube that the commercials get played. Or on the odd time that I'm actually watching something live (not that often).
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
I don't subcribe to any magazines because of all the paper junk mail that comes because of it. It takes about 3 years for all the hot prospect chasers to decide to save the postage after letting the subscription lapse. If you don't believe it, subscribe to anything for your cat. Watch the mail come for your cat! I had a wrong initial on my car registration. I didn't fix it after I started getting junk with the same error. It was interesting to find out Uncle Sam can't keep personal information confidential.
The truth shall set you free!
Fortunately, I'm using pine which is not susceptible to trojans. But I'll buy a dozen anyways for my colleagues still using Outlook.
By the way, I have more time to code, to listen to the music, to talk to my friends. In fact, I'm having a date tomorrow - first time since April 2000!
...but I don't think it would help any of these ad campaigns.
"Have you seen the cool Bud frogs advert yet?"
"No?"
"Oh, your ratings must be off. What're your stats?"
"Chat Shows 3, Documentaries 4, Home Shopping 1, News 1, SciFi 5, Soap Operas 2"
"Oh, well that's obviously it, you need to get your Chat Shows up to a 4 and your Documentaries below 2 before you have any chance."
"But there's that cool Evils Of Microsoft documentary on tonight!"
"Too bad, you're watching Springer for double chat show points unless you want to miss the talking frogs."
While you're going through all that, you'll have to read articles on slashdot all day about Taco et al hacking their TiVos to fake their viewing habits just to get the cool commercials that they bought the TiVo units to avoid in the first place.
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Only 60 easy monthly payments of $10.95, price break of 5% in quantities over 1,000. Order now, operators are sitting by.
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
If I move into an apartment, the previous renter having watched an ungodly amount of pr0n, and the cable company forgets to flush their viewing habit records, am I going to get flooded with commercials for aphrodisiacs and french ticklers? Seriously though. I used to work for a cable company not too long ago, and I don't see enough bandwidth available in those cables to send each user their own personalized 3 minute commercial break. Maybe reserve a few channels for demographic 'groups' but not individual users.
I typically spend about 1 hr a week watching tv/movies, and a lot of hours riding my bike. I couldn't agree more with that statement.
Besides, should the /. crowd be programming decent Linux apps rather than watching 'Survivor'?
-WSAn operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Now I have no TV, and the only response I've ever gotten from people I've told is envy.
Wouldn't it be nice to change the settings on your TV so your 4-year-old isn't getting the Victoria's Secret ads?
Uh, we're protecting 4-year-olds from lingerie ads now? They must be pretty damn fragile.
Though I have to wonder, what is the 4-year-old watching that would have those ads in the first place? Teletubbies?
I'm not going to buy the crap they're trying to sell.... But.... I'll take a survey to choose all the funny commercials.. and reduce my cable bill for taking these suryveys!
-Black holes happen when God divides by Zero.
Is this the same Slashdot that rails against any online company trying to collect viewer data? Doubleclick is the great evil. But Cable can't do any wrong? Huh? Could somebody explain to me why online tracking is bad, and TV tracking is good?
Personally, I use rabbit ears (antenna) on my TV, so I really don't care. But it's yet another reason for me NOT to get cable TV.
You are not giving anyone your address by watching a television show. The cable companies ALREADY know your address from your billing info. Your cable company will know who you are whether they do customized ads or not. If they tried to sell your profile combined with your address to tree-spam companies, THAT would be evil.
Exactly. Your cable company (which is probably a huge multi-national corporation, made up of many, many companies) already has all of your personal information, and they know everything that you watch every second that your TV is on. More than likely, that information, which is not only linked back to you, but to the TV that you're using, is shared amongst this huge multi-national corporation. And who's to say that they don't sell stats about you and your TV watching habits? More than likely, they already do and you just don't know it. With cable TV, there is no way, whatsoever, other than pirating it, to block your information from the cable company. If you're worried about it online, just use Safeweb or something similar. Hell, not only is your cable TV company watching everything you do, you're PAYING them for it. Now THAT'S invasive.
At least WGBH doesn't suck ass like most PBS stations. Hell, IIRC, they fund This Old House and a ton of awesome programs.
"Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
I already have this. My DirecTV box has "interactive" features. This is normally used to get more info about the current program, sports scores, etc....but occasionally it pops up during a commercial and offers to send you more info at the press of a button. Around Christmas one of the electronics stores (I think it was BestBuy) had one. I hit the button (cause I have the mentality of a 3 year old, and can't resist playing with any toy placed before me), and it pops up and asks me what denomination of gift card I want to purchase - $50 or $100. I appeared to be 1 button press away from buying a giftcard...needless to say, my 2 year old doesn't get to play with the remote anymore....
Reading this article, I couldn't help but think that although this particular attempt at targeted advertising makes me uncomfortable, an idea that *I* at least like popped into my head.
It has to cost money to gather this information right? Well, what if, rather than spending the money on invading people's privacy, they spent it to create an onscreen ranking system for commercials, where you would give say a thumbs up to products you like, and a thumbs down to ones you don't.. that way, without the companies knowing how many hairs are in your nostrils, they can target their arvertising to the type of products you enjoy, and best of all, if you don't like the system, there would be no requirement to participate, so it cuts down on the righteous anger that's generated..
Anyone think this might work?
How would you feel if after spending a few hours downloading pr0n and mp3's from Usenet, you started getting adds for 'Hot Teen Slut Warehouse' and 'Columbia Record Club'?
Targeted advertising is cool so long as the companies doing so are targeting people they beleive are likely to watch their show, rather than targeting me based directly on what I watch.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Ummmm... No. Wrong. The pain of childbirth was an evil cast on Eve by God for her sins, not menstruation. Also, your need to work for a living was cst on Adam at the same time, so why do you crow about your job title at the end of every post? Surely you should also be ashamed of your need to work? Or are you not a Christian, but something else? Origianl sin caused our problems, but the problems themselves aren't sins. As a quick acid test: What's your opinion on sex?
Beg:
robp
Scenario:
Guy gets new place, wants to show off to buddies. Sees Manly Sports Program coming up on his new digital cable. Invites all the Other Manly Guys over for a night of beer and male bonding... and sees only tampon and bath bead commercials.
Let's just say that this guy has considerably set back his aspirations for being Alpha Male.
I tend to flip channels as soon as commercials come on. The only way they could make me watch commercials is to stream shows to me individually and to force me to watch 2 minutes of commercials for every 12 minutes of shows that I watch no matter what channel I try to change to. This is such a sick idea, I wish I had the money to patent it just so I could keep the dorks from using it on us.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
Here's one slippery slope of targetted advertising. The more varied our interests, the more varied the advertising. As underground or mainstream an audience is, that's the advertising they would recieve. This is until advertising is a mirror reflection of ourselves. Might one consequence be we don't like what we see? The flip side is we don't want others to see it either.
You seem to have a rather insecure attitude towards something that is a natural bodily process. Why are tampon commercials any less acceptable to you than soap or shampoo atheletes foot?
Why?
Well, if my digital cable company is monitoring my viewing habits right now, they're not doing a very good job of targeting ads towards me. "Dear user. As someone who watches a lot of the History and Discovery channels, we think you might like WWF Ultimate Flatulence Rumble XVIII!!! Only $19.95 on PPV!"
Amazon hasn't done much better. "We notice in the past year you've purchased The Seventh Seal, Rashomon and Magnolia. Might we suggest you'd also love American Pie: Unrated Edition!"
And these are the people who are supposed to home in on my every consumer weakness with Machiavellian efficiency? Big Brother, my ass!
Trying to stuff us into demographic groups might work on the masses, but those of us who are a bit "off" don't fit easily into any catagory.
When the hell do I get to click the check boxes on the types of commericals *I* want to see, rather than having mindless megacorps spend billions at trying to guess?!
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
that the LA times site has two adds that pop-up when I clicked the story. And they're complaining about commerical advertisement?
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
They've been able to do this for awhile now -- with the wide adoption of digital cable. Not only can they tell what channel you're on, but each box collects information about your viewing habits (and not just on premium services). The same bandwidth (around 800 MHz) which brings your RR also allows your cable boxes to be addressable on the subscriber level.
In addition, I was quite upset with my own cable company (Insight Communications in Columbus, OH), because when the guy came to install RoadRunner he configured a proxy which would collect URLs from your browsing habits, and then use targeted advertising on the company's homepage. A further look at the terms of service revealed that these cable companies are only limited by the various Cable acts, which allow them to collect any information they want and not tell anyone as long as they don't share it with other companies. This means they can monitor your web usage, and your TV viewing habits to build a complete profile of who you are.
Obviously there needs to be some other restrictions placed on these companies -- who are shaping up to be the biggest spys in commercial history.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
If something like this could be adopted to the web, banner advertising would be saved. All we need is an official standard, and advertisers could run ads that are relavent and useful to the consumer.
A good example of this is google's adwords. Those ads HAVE influenced many purchasing decisions of mine.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Is a fucking OPT-IN standard so much to ask? "Wouldn't it be nice to change the settings on your TV so your 4-year-old isn't getting the Victoria's Secret ads?" Fuck you Ben Isaacson. I've never wanted so badly to punch someone in the jaw. You greedy whore.
Personally, I don't mind commercials when they are entertaining, and not just blatant shoveling of crap to viewers)
I just did this with my ISP and it felt GREAT! I was having webmail problems and tech support basically said "live with it." So I talked to the account rep for my account and two days later response time mysteriously got better and error rates went down.
For years I've been on the other side of that equation as a systems guy. So it was sweet to make it work FOR me for once.
The former Cablevision of Massachusetts offices can CHANGE the channel rom the office. Although it can only change it to channel 2. But I guess it is their way of making you watch WGBH(local PBS)! :-)
-Henry
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
This is a dumb idea, and not just because of the privacy intrusion. How much can you really tell about a person by the fact that they watch 60 Minutes, Star Trek, and Boston Public every week, and Entertainment Tonight only occasionally? Advertisers and advertising purchasers wish targeted advertising would work, but its efficacy is questionable. Make the wrong assumptions about your audience, and you end up erroneously skipping potential customers. Add to that the enormous variation in individual behavior and preferences. Remember when advertising targeted in this way was supposed to the killer app of Internet marketing? It turned out that advertising based on content (e.g. advertising hosting companies on Slashdot) is still more popular than trying to target individuals based on their surfing habits.
What's next? Targeting news stories, and shows? What kind of a person to I have to be in the eyes of the network to not get Oprah, and Jerry Springer? What if there was no election coverage or CSPAN for certain classes of people? Time to get rid of the Tee Vee methinks.
Mommy. What's a karma whore?
(info collecting guy: dammit i need a girlfriend...)
Ads may not mean to sway your opinion on a buy-by-buy basis. They also want to push their brand name into your psyche. If you have never needed to send flowers online before, you're more likely to skip the comparative shopping and go with 1800FLOWERS.com the day you do, since they've been associating their name with the market for years (while you thought you didn't care).
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No, more importantly, no more Microsoft commericals! Those things really make me ill!
"What are we going to do tonight, Bill?"
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
Isn't advertising basically about trying to influence the leaders who eventually will influence their followers? It is mentioned that most men would never want to see an ad for tampons, or Midol. But would that really happen? Women don't want to see those commercials either. When was the last time you watched one with a woman and she said, "Hey that tampon seems so much better than my current one, I need to go buy it."
So you have to analyze that a lot of what drives commericials is human interaction. Is it more effective to target feminine hygine products to women, or target the commericals to men, so that the next time his significant other has cramps, he recommends that perhaps she use Midol? Think about it. This has the potential to show you more of the commercials you don't like, because you are likely to influence others buying habits.
Sweet! Now I'll get nothing but beer and porn ads while I watch Disney! You gotta admit how awesome that would be... :D
Sometimes commericals/ads are entertaining. Those I like. Those I actually don't mind - for a while.
Every ad has a limit. I can watch them only so many times before they make me mute the Tele or change the channel. If the cable company was paying attention they'd know to never show me that *^!#$% commercial again because if messes up their nice rating systems.
A button to have them never show me a particular ad again would be more than welcome. Annoying/bad ads gone after the first view - others after a few views.
So, to sum up:
Feedback about annoying ads? GOOD!
Having AT&T sell my butt (which they didn't agree to the shrink-wrap license for)? BAD!
Somehow a medium needs to be found....
I don't have an answer yet, but you'll be the first to know when I do.
I've always been pretty "okay" with such activities, but this is getting rediculous.
My solution is TiVo! (Skip the commercials!!)
But seriously, I like watching the TV commercials for breast enhancements and those paid commercials for that stuff that removes hair from your body without shaving (I may try it on my bunghole!) And although I don't drink beer, I still like the Budweiser commercials. If I don't watch sports (which I really dont do often), does that mean I won't be able to share in the same commercials as my drunk friends? Are they going to force me to watch the Yankees game to see these commercials... and to just through in more commercials or advertisements in the middle of the game like "this instant reply is brought to you by...." or "this blade of grass is brought to you by Lawn Doctor..."? This is crap.
Advertising is there for a reason and honestly it helps everyone everyday find something they like, but now it's getting rediculous.
I think you need to flash your brain's firmware.
I don't have anything to hide, I don't care to let a commercial system know all my habits. I'll care if there's someone spying on my preferences.
The point here is privacy. I don't know about others, but if it's for the best (like personalized ads, or personal security) I don't care to let systems and people know what I like to do.
To keep privacy we need warranties that it won't be used to others things (like spam) or seen by anybody.
To tell the truth, there already exists things like this. Everybody watches local ads in TV, the difference is that they don't track what you watch. (I like local ads)
I really hope that trackers have at least a minimum of ethics, and use this in a way that doesn't harm nobody privacy.
Don't worry. I'm too lonely [to|every]day
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I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
Get this: If you don't watch ads, instead of paying your wonderfully cheap $40/mo for cable, you'd need to pay $400/mo. So watch the goddam ads and shut up. Why are people so stressed out that they go to EXTRORDANARY lengths to avoid watching 6 minutes of commercials every hour? Get up and go to the washroom, fetch a snack, talk to your friend, discuss plot holes, etc. Seriously I have never found commercials to be a problem. The best way to avoid watching them is to AVERT YOUR EYES. And even if you did have to watch them, what is 6 minutes in the grand scheme of things??
The only other point that I want to make is that if they find a way to show me advertisements that are geared specifically towards what I'm interested in, I think that's fantastic! Show me ads on TV on all of the latest computer hardware, gadgets, cool cars, electronics, A/V hardware, etc, etc, and I will actually watch them! Everyone needs to take a country-class valium and calm down.
If God gave us curiosity
...from your mother in-law and you will be stuck with douche and "feminine napkin" adds for months.
Or, more "correctly." Collecting the data isn't the problem. The absence of a way to signal that the data currently being collected (or say, that was collected last week) is abberant to your normal houshold patterns is the problem.
In still other words: If you don't want to have your TV viewing experence skewed to the hip-hopp make sure your house sitter is interested in the same things you are every time you go on vacation.
Essentially, for this "service" to serve anyone what they *really* need is a pair of buttons on the remote:
1) "Don't ever show me that crap again".
2) "Clear History Cache"
You'll never see either since it would be against the preceived interest of the programmers to have the audience "vote away" a well paying ad campeign, and the "fear" of abbuse of the clear button being misused.
You think the wife isn't going to notice that after you have spent all weekend watching bay-watch-brests and network-battle-of the T&A that the comercials arn't a tad late-night-ish? Don't you bet that every guy who does watch broadcast-pr0n is going to press that button before any date he brings into the house?
--
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
No Intel Inside the computer you used to post this, eh? I'll bet you buy plenty of the stuff "they" are trying to sell. Either that or your self-sustaining commune has one hell of a homebrew computer club.
Invisible Agent
Invisible Agent
This post is a mirror; when a monkey stares in, no hacker gazes out.
No kidding, Timothy. I really don't want to drink anything called 'bawls'. Please remove the banner ads so we can all troll in peace.
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With my viewing habits... Lord knows I need to see more of those damn nike Freestyle dribbling commercials
"I must be in their demographic, you know, male, 18-24 and all that..."
Or maybe cable service rep is his night job, Psychic Friends Hotline is his day job.
The people on this forum don't want the world to know that all they watch is the SPICE channel.
I'm not going to buy any of the crap they're trying to sell.
So, as long as they include a way to turn off all ads, I'll be happy.
What are the odds on that?
J5000
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
Why don't the cable companies simply _ask_ the viewer if they want targeted ads or not? You could put a button on the cablebox: if it's pressed, then the cable company collects viewing information and starts showing appropriate ads. If it's not pressed, then they don't.
The people who don't mind targeted ads would get them, the people who don't, wouldn't.
(Of course, this would require the cable companies and advertisers to be honest, but it's still better than them just forcing targeted ads down your throat.)
People expect some sort of anonymity online. If all Doubleclick had tried to do was customize which banners you saw, that wouldn't have been so evil. There was something going on (I don't remember the details) where other companies would look for Doubleclick cookies when you gave personal information to buy something, and if you had a Doubleclick cookie your Doubleclick identity was linked to your real identity. (Again, I don't remember the details, and I don't remember if they're still doing this.) The other evil thing about online data collecting companies is spam.
You are not giving anyone your address by watching a television show. The cable companies ALREADY know your address from your billing info. Your cable company will know who you are whether they do customized ads or not. If they tried to sell your profile combined with your address to tree-spam companies, THAT would be evil.
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Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I...
that I can get my tv to show me only Victoria's Secret commercials!