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IBM 1GB Microdrive Review

A reader writes "MP3 Newswire has run a very good review on the 1GB version of IBM's Microdrive. One major improvement the higher-capacity Microdrive has over the older 340MB drive is that it consumes less power (the older drives sucked up the juice). The article covers the normal ins and outs of the product, but also touches on the future. Because flash cards and other competing storage media this small havent reached the 1GB plateau (yet) these drives are good enough to steal a large slice of the MP3 player/PDA/Digital Camera pie by simply slashing prices to allow, say, a tiny 1GB MP3 portable for under $250. "

195 comments

  1. Hrm... by jawad · · Score: 1

    Is it just me, or haven't these 1GB drives been out for a *while* now? It's not like this is a review of something that *just* came out...

    1. Re:Hrm... by joebp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Indeed, here's a IBM press release dated June 20, 2000.

    2. Re:Hrm... by stripes · · Score: 3, Informative
      Indeed, here's a IBM press release [ibm.com] dated June 20, 2000.

      Yeah, on the other hand I remember them being really costly when they came out, like about $1000. Now they are about $300, or free with the right camera. Well the right $2200 camera at least :-)

      Predictable, but still important.

      However I still haven't seen the promised type I 500M clones. Ah well.

    3. Re:Hrm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh boy, a 3 week old review on a product that's been out for a year....keep up the good work /.

    4. Re:Hrm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yup, I've owned one for a good oooh... year!

      It's something that you report a story late, but when you re-report someone else's late story, you really need to start examining the methods you use to conduct news-gathering. And when you report on someone's late review of a piece of hardware... well, that's really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

      Slashdot used to be really good with first stories, now it's all BBC, CNN, New York Times and The Register. Go back to the old model, please! Reading the same news on multiple sites is getting really boring...

      Slashdot, News for Nerds. Stuff that mattered...

    5. Re:Hrm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Official IBM Announce Date: 09/11/2000 (yes press releases existed before)

      Imagine what they are working on now. :)

    6. Re:Hrm... by luxaeterna7 · · Score: 1

      I used to sell them at the camera store I used to work at. They have been out for awhile and they were never more expensive than $450

      --
      "the devil finds work for idle circuits"
    7. Re:Hrm... by 5KVGhost · · Score: 1

      You're right. I've been using a 1GB Microdrive in my digital camera (Canon D30) for more than a year now, and they were out for quite some time before that. This isn't exactly breaking news at this point.

  2. Hmm... by 11thangel · · Score: 2, Redundant

    Now if they only got CHEAPER at the same time...

    ($369 for a 1Gig drive is not exactly what I call a new MP3 jukebox in the making)

    --

    I am !amused.
    1. Re:Hmm... by Oily+Tuna · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When searching through song files we noticed no discernible lag that might be caused by the slower RPMs of the 1GB Microdrive that runs at 3600 RPM, down from the 4500 RPM of the original 340MB drive.

      It looks like they might be trying to optimise these fpecifically for MP3 players.
      A small cache for the directory so browsing is quick but a low transfer rate for data because playing an MP3 doesn't need fast speeds but does need long battery life.

      --
      Mmmmmmm ... sushi.
    2. Re:Hmm... by motherhead · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the HP Journada 568 i just picked specifically mentions that the CF slot was designed with IBM microdrives in mind. My Olympus E-10 camera as well. sooo... ya.

    3. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah, rebuking him for being a total idiot is against the wishes of this site. Encourage idiocy! News for nerds my ass. I bought a gig microdrive over a year ago for my pda. Even then the technology was old.

    4. Re:Hmm... by kilgore_47 · · Score: 1

      This technology is still at the "neat trick" stage, at least from my point of view. Hundreds of dollars for 1gb? Riight. I'll stick with more traditional media for now, and hope that in a couple years from now IBM will be making microdrives that I can actually store a decent number of mp3s on.

      --
      ___
      The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
    5. Re:Hmm... by analyst99 · · Score: 1

      Woks GREAT with my CASIO E-125

      --
      I Came, I Saw, I Networked, I ate KFC :0)
    6. Re:Hmm... by Chundra · · Score: 1

      Yes, and there's a toshiba pc card drive (MK5002MPL) that's 5gb! Check it out here. I'm using it on an ipaq with linux, and it works very nicely. Much better than the IBM microdrive, not only for storage space but it hasn't caused me any troubles like the IBM.

    7. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been using the 340MB udrive in my iPAQ for almost a year. It will eat the batteries when it is spinning.

      What I want now is the ability to plug a laptop drive into my iPAQ. It has been done:

      http://www.handhelds.org:8080/wiki/HardwareProject s

      but I want a PCMCIA USB host card that will work with the iPAQ. All I have found so far are cardbus cards, which won't work with the iPAQ. A CF USB host card would rock! Then I could use USB hardrive enclosures, plus CD/DVD drives with external batteries.

      Cpt_Kirks

    8. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeh, with this you can ram 1 gb of data up your ass and not hurt as much as a scsi barracuda

    9. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and where the hell is this interesting? fucking mod it down you bastards!

    10. Re:Hmm... by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm sure HP had them in mind, and they were thinking "There is no way that's ever going to fit in our PPC"...

      According to the Detailed Specs for the HP 568: "One IrDA infrared port, One USB (Slave)/serial RS232C, AC input jack, Earphone jack, Expansion slot: One CompactFlash Type I extended"

      And for the IBM Microdrive: "Integrates with a variety of handheld devices through use of the industry- standard CF+** Type II format and compatibility with PCMCIA Type II (with an adapter)"

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
  3. Hmm... by The+Great+Wakka · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Do you think that 1GB of storage space in something that small could be applied to PDAs or MP3 players? This has other ramifications too, beyond simply being a superfloppy.

    --
    Everything is mainstream now.
  4. Portable Movie Player potential? by Marx_Mrvelous · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hmmm. With 1GB storage getting so cheap, I wonder if we'll see non DVD portable viseo players coming soon. Why not? VCD movies are supported by DVD players, and it wouldn't be expensive to add a hard drive to store other mpeg/avi movies.

    I'd buy one.

    --

    Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
    1. Re:Portable Movie Player potential? by ActMatrix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Certainly possible, and as I recall Slashdot ran a story on Archos releasing a product much like this...with a smallish LCD screen built into the unit for viewing MPEGs. The big problem is battery life since the displays end up sucking power - also, unlike an MP3 player it would be hard to buffer video files to solid-state memory enough to reduce drive access due to the high bitrates.

    2. Re:Portable Movie Player potential? by wolruf · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is already possible with iPAQ but the battery won't last long I guess...
      In fact, there're already people that put a DVD in the iPAQ RAM with 20MB, see: http://pocketmatrix.com/howto/newdvd/

      --
      wolruf@gmail.com
    3. Re:Portable Movie Player potential? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The display is not the problem. The backlight and the hardrive are the culprits. Without the light, the display is pretty low power.

      Cpt_Kirks

    4. Re:Portable Movie Player potential? by ahoehn · · Score: 1

      This is being done, and promoted with an iPAQ

      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
  5. its still a hard drive by mkmiller · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It doesn't have the advantage of no moving parts. Drop a mp3 player with a hard drive in it and you get a dead hard drive.

    1. Re:its still a hard drive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, the udrives were tested to about 20g. If you excede that, don't worry, you will be dead (and kind of squishy).

    2. Re:its still a hard drive by beh · · Score: 1


      Well - for an MP3 player, that's hardly an issue... My Personal JukeBox (check it out at www.pjbox.com) has a hard disk in it - but it also has enough RAM to buffer something like 10 minutes worth of MP3, which means, that the HD will be up an running for about 20-25 seconds (including spinning up and spinning down) once every 10 minutes..

      I own and during the day almost constantly use the player - and I have more problems with the cabling for the headset, than with the player itself, which worked absolutely fine.

      Personally - if you're looking for an MP3 player, I can only recommend this one - (since I am even listening to music at work with it), I would say, that the player has already seen more than 1000 running hours in the time, and it still works fine... I'll just need a new pouch some time - as the old one is slowly "falling apart"... ;)

    3. Re:its still a hard drive by -brazil- · · Score: 1

      Nope. People can survive up to 45g (for nor more than a tent of a second, of course). And where does that even come into play when discussing the hazards of dropping equipment? Fact is, it's very easy to exceed 20 or even 30 g when dropping stuff on a hard surface. Though I guess that the microdrive's small size would make it more resilent, they can probably withstand far more than 20g (30g is a quite common spec, even for full-size HDs). And the rest of the player would protect the drive by breaking first in most cases...

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

  6. Lots of storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Yea! Eventually we can do longer pr0n shoots with 1GB-capable digital cameras.

    1. Re:Lots of storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My camera, the Canon S20 works fine with my 1gig microdrive. It did a year ago. How can you people be so far behind reality?

      I, in fact, did do some porn shoots with it. You have to invest in a lot of batteries (they last around 40minutes each), but a normal shoot would use about half the drive. The main problem is the lag of saving the image.

    2. Re:Lots of storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they could get the bugs out and get them on the market, that's where the Archos multimedia thingy would rock. A 4x zoom camera with 10gb of hd space. Amateur pr0n for all!

  7. Humm... by The+Great+Wakka · · Score: 1
    These things are probably pretty expensive to be so small...

    Boss: Tech, Where's that report you promised me?
    Tech: It's right here on this microdrive.... What? Where is it? Yaarrghh!

    Small expensive things are always bad. Not only that, but the high capacity of this drive means that you could potentially lose a LOT of data on one of these things. Looks Dangerous.
    --
    Everything is mainstream now.
  8. Protein/3-D Memory Modules by TheToasterBoy · · Score: 1

    I'm still waiting for Bacteriorhodopsin Memory to hit the market... Sci-Am did an article _years_ ago, and apparently there's been some successful 'wet-bench' runs since then...

    Wonder if you have to feed the things or flush out the waste on a regular basis...

    Ken

    --
    An OPEN mind is a beautiful thing...
  9. Of RPMs and Throughput by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is there such an emphasis placed on RPMs? i.e. 7200 versus 5400 versus 3600, etc: RPM is used as the metric regarding the performance of a hard drive. Yet, correct me if I'm wrong (as if I need to even say that :-]), is it not true that one RPM on one drive can represent a vastly different amount of data than one RPM on a different drive?

    1. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by nomadic · · Score: 1

      That's probably why IBM sees no problem in decreasing RPMs on the microdrive. Probably doesn't effect performance much.

    2. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by 11thangel · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      RPMS ARE EVIL, APT GET OWNS J00!!!

      Oh, wait, my bad, this is a REAL discussion, with a POINT to it...

      *walks away in shame*

      --

      I am !amused.
    3. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by drhemi · · Score: 1

      RPM affects the seek times and transfer rates of a hard drive. The faster the disk spins the quicker that the data will get under the head and give lower seek times. Also the faster the data moves under the head, the faster it can be transfered off of the disk

    4. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by srw · · Score: 1

      > Why is there such an emphasis placed on RPMs?

      Because the rotational speed greatly contributes to the latency of the drive. i.e., if the data you need has just passed the head, on a 3600rpm drive you'll have to wait 16ms for it to come around again. On a 7200rpm, it's 8ms, on 10,000rpm it's 6ms. This probably doesn't matter much for listnening to mp3s, but if you're trying to retrieve data from a highly fragmented drive, or seeking different data all over the drive, it can slow things down.

    5. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For seek times I can see that RPMs would matter (though the majority of the time for seeking is physically moving the head radially on the disk), however my point is that sure, changing the RPMs for a given density and head count matters, but that comparing RPMs across different densities is comparing based upon partial info. For the sake of example, imagine that on one drive one revolution contains 100KB of data, whereas on another drive it contains 50KB of data, but drive one runs at a slow 5400 RPM versus the "speedy" 7200 RPM of drive two.

    6. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by 2nesser · · Score: 1

      Rotations Per Minute only affects seek times as far as I know (which isn't much). That's why A: drives suck so much (that and they don't carry a Gig of data).

      I suppose if you had a really defragmented drive it could slow down reading speeds.
      This little buffer of 128K (a little over half is used for microcode) should keep things reading soothly though.

    7. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      That does make sense. I'm always shocked when I actually convert to rotations per second to discover how slow it really is (i.e. 120 rotations per second on a 7200 RPM drive).

      Having said that this has me curious: Are there drives with mutiple heads at different locations on the drive (i.e. One immediate design I could imagine is opposite heads on the same mechanism [assuring accuracy]), basically so with two heads at opposite points the rotational seek time is halved and the throughput could be doubled with some creative buffering and concatenation.

    8. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by satsuke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The difference between 5400 and 7200 is primarily a matter of marketting and market stratification than technical capacities.

      People pay more for a 7200 consumer drive than a 5400 one. For the extra cost they expect it to potentially have a larger cache and faster seek time than a slower one. As an example, maxtor makes a 100 gig 5400 drive with 2 megs of cache and a 100 gig 7200 drive with 8 megs of cache.

      The price to the company isn't that much greater outside of R&D cost. But being able to sell into multiple markets with the like drive mechanizmes makes sense.

      Witness the old MFM / RLL days. When a Seagate ST-225 and ST-238R were the exact same drive . One was a 20 meg and the other was a 32 meg. Just different quality control & marketing.

      Satsuke

    9. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, not funny at all!

    10. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by leeward · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember in the old days, on large (dinner plate sized) drives used on mainframes, that kind of thing was indeed done. But IDE drives for the consumer market are now a commodity, with ruthless pricing. Cutting the cost down to the obsolute minimum is essential, and I doubt any time soon that additional heads (and the accompaning drive mechanism) will be added solely to cut down access time.

    11. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by Big+Jason · · Score: 1

      The Barracuda ST12450W (2HP) was the first Fast/Wide SCSI drive that Seagate produced, built like a tank and had dual parallel heads that allowed simultaneous reads. My drive is going on 6 years old now and it still keeps up with the latest and greatest SCSI drives. They certainly don't build them like they used to.

    12. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by paenguin · · Score: 1
      Why is there such an emphasis placed on RPMs? i.e. 7200 versus 5400 versus 3600, etc: RPM is used as the metric regarding the performance of a hard drive. Yet, correct me if I'm wrong (as if I need to even say that :-]), is it not true that one RPM on one drive can represent a vastly different amount of data than one RPM on a different drive?

      Most IDE drives have the same number and size of sectors per track, ie: the same amount of data on each track, therefore each rotation causes the same amount of data to pass under the head.

      Rotation speed is important as it is generally the limiting factor on how fast data can be read and streamed off of each track. Small chunks of data will only gain an improved latency time, but large chunks of data will read off as fast as the disk can get the data under the head.

      The biggest marketing foofoo in hard drives is currently the interface speed. Once you reach ultra-33, you have surpassed the speed of the data being read, so the bottleneck moves to the next spot, how fast the head is moving past the data. If you can't saturate an ultra-33 data path at 7200 rpm, you also can't saturate a ultra-66 or ultra-100 or ultra-133. Unless the cache is doing a lot for you, these faster interfaces don't do a lot for you overall in getting large chunks of data from disk to memory. This is why they are putting much larger caches in the drives now, so cache hits are increased and the bottleneck is not at the head touching the platter, but how fast the drive's cache can put the data on the bus. Large caches are important to take advantage of ultra-66 and above interfaces.

      --
      We should start referring to processes which run in the background by their correct technical name... paenguins.
    13. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by Howie · · Score: 1

      Quantum used to make a multi-headed drive like that, known as the 'Chinook', after the helicopter with a pair of rotors. It was reputed to be very fast at the time (1990 or so, IIRC).

      [it was Conner, not Quantum - here's a page about it]

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    14. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by be-fan · · Score: 2

      While that's true, its not a bad ballpark figure. I can feel the difference between a 5400RPM drive and a 7200RPM drive just sitting at a computer and using it. In general, drives with faster RPM tend to have higher-bit densities anyway (they're newer), so it gives a rough indicator that's easy to understand.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    15. Re:Of RPMs and Throughput by gorilla · · Score: 2

      Quality control was important. I had drives that would not work reliablty with a RRL controller that would work fine with a MFM controller.

  10. does it support FreeBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does anyone know if this drive works on FreeBSD?

    1. Re:does it support FreeBSD? by mkmiller · · Score: 0

      Its a hard drive that plugs into a CF slot. If CF slots work under BSD, it will work.

    2. Re:does it support FreeBSD? by AlphaCone · · Score: 1

      I don't know, but it's in a CompactFLASH package. If FreeBSD supports a USB CompactFLASH card reader, then, yes, it does.

    3. Re:does it support FreeBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it always worked fine on openbsd when i was pulling the images off of my camera... you use the pcmcia converter thingy for cf...

    4. Re:does it support FreeBSD? by Howie · · Score: 2

      CompactFlash storage has an IDE interface (more or less). There are cheap adapters to use CF as an IDE device on any motherboard - intended for embedded systems. The adapter has no components on it - it's purely a wiring harness for the different sized plugs, and a jumper for master/slave.

      This shows as a small harddisk in your BIOS, and anything that believes the BIOS should work, and boot from it. I just got one, and started playing with it for a couple of applications (silent X Terminal, firewall), and so far I have DOS booting really quickly, and LRP almost working.

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
  11. ipod by PMan88 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    the ipod has a small 5gb drive in it

  12. $250 for 1GB isn't cheap by Dragon218 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Thinkgeek has a nice MP3 player for only $330. That player stores 20 Gigs worth of MP3s. Strange that there would be hype about a $250 1gig drive.

    Maybe they got it wrong and forgot a decimal point. That must be it! These HDs are just like RAM. $2.50 for 1 gig. It's funny, RAM is cheaper than these dirves.

    --

    "It's the little touches that make a future solid enough to be destroyed" --William S. Bourroughs
    1. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by RoyalTS · · Score: 1

      The difference is that the Archos Jukebox that Thinkgeek sells has a normal 2.5 inches laptop hard disk in it. Microdrives are much smaller, as small as any other compact flash card. Fitting a hard drive with 1GB in such as small space just seems absolutely amazing to me.

    2. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but have you see the size and weight of those MP3 players using laptop harddrives? You're almost better off to buy a small form factor Thinkpad with 20GB disk drive and play that way.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    3. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by naasking · · Score: 1

      Thinkgeek has a nice MP3 player for only $330. That player stores 20 Gigs worth of MP3s.

      Ya, a nice 20 GB that needs to be transferred over USB. Microdrives operate on a faster bus... and are much smaller if you hadn't noticed.

    4. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1
      Thinkgeek [thinkgeek.com] has a nice MP3 player for only $330. That player stores 20 Gigs worth of MP3s. Strange that there would be hype about a $250 1gig drive.

      Maybe they got it wrong and forgot a decimal point. That must be it! These HDs are just like RAM. $2.50 for 1 gig. It's funny, RAM is cheaper than these dirves.

      *sigh*. The artical isn't stricly about MP3 players. It's about a Hard Disk Drive that can be used in an MP3 player.

      Can that MP3 player that you linked to fit into the slot of my digital camera or PDA? No.

      Is that MP3 players' HDD smaller than a match box? No.

      Can you store info on RAM, remove it from your computer, and plug it into another device and still access the data on it? NO!

      Please, think before you post. This is NOT a MP3 Player, or an alternative to RAM. It's a small removable HDD. So unless you're going to compare it with other small, high capasity storage mediums, you post is completely redundant.

    5. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by Webmonger · · Score: 2

      Yes, you CAN get RAM that you remove from your computer, plug it into another device and stil access the data; they're called flash ram cards. And they're getting pretty high in capacity, so it's fair to compare them to the microdrive.

    6. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by -brazil- · · Score: 1

      And a very simple comparsion it is, too: Flash ram wins the battery lifetime and resilence categories, Microdrive wins the price/capacity and transfer rate category. I'm not sure about latency, but that's probably flash ram.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    7. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      True. But late time I heard. 1gig CF cards where more expensive than a 1gig microdrive. So there goes that argument

    8. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by Webmonger · · Score: 2

      All I said was that there was a basis for comparison. Flash costs more money. Microdrive costs more battery life. Which is worse depends on your situation and opinion.

    9. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      The maybe you should have actualy made that point in you post. Cause from what I read. It seem as if you where trying to point out how expensive microdrives are. Not comparing them to 1gig CF cards or anything.

    10. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by Webmonger · · Score: 2

      I believe the post you're referring to is the top-level post in this thread. That wasn't me, it was Dragon218.

    11. Re:$250 for 1GB isn't cheap by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1
      Ah well, my point still stands. CF drives aren't that expensize for what they are.

      BTW moderators. I don't expect my posts to be moderated up. But why are the rest of the later ones?
      It seems if your just picking a side an modding up, not matter what the person says. Your mod points would be better of spend somewhere else. Not on a nest of people bickering.

      If you took out my side of the argument, they would not be worth modding up.

      *sigh* back to k5.

  13. dumb errors by ArcSecond · · Score: 2, Informative
    Only the Microdrive presently offers 1GB of storage, which is why it stands out from the crowd. That won't last long, though. SanDisk and Toshiba are already promising 1MB and 2MB flash cards by late next summer.

    Why is it so impossible for supposed "technology writers" to get simple things like GB and MB straight? I mean, it's obvious what was meant, but c'mon! How can that slip past both the writer AND the editor? It's almost as bad as Slashdot, for chrissakes...

    --

    I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.

    1. Re:dumb errors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course, one reason for using a microdrive over flash is the cost.. flash is fucking expensive in comparison. i got my gig microdrive a YEAR ago for 500$.

  14. w00t! A Comment high enough for people to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah!!!! Now what was I supposed to write about?....

    Oh yeah,... I work for the college I attend and we were able to get a FujiFilm S1 digital SLR for our office with a 1GB IBM Microdrive... It's really remarkable hardware. I'm a big fan of it and of the CF2 interface standard... It's nice and extensible. I would love to see a CF2 reader for Handspring Visors (right now there's just CF1). That's where we get into cool EFC-style globals. :)

  15. Shock specifications! by srw · · Score: 1

    Did you see that shock spec? This little thing can take 1500G of shock (non-operating). Is that because it has so little mass? Or is this really not as impressive as it sounds? Can someone with a physics background comment on this?

    1. Re:Shock specifications! by ackthpt · · Score: 1
      Can't be 1500G, that'd be like firing it out of a gun at a brick.

      ~15000 m/s^2

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Shock specifications! by rcw-home · · Score: 2
      Can't be 1500G, that'd be like firing it out of a gun at a brick.

      Or dropping it from one meter onto a surface such as concrete that causes it to accelerate to zero m/s in .0001 seconds.

      That's why rubber/plastic is so useful for things like this - it can dramatically lengthen acceleration times, reducing G's to sane levels.

    3. Re:Shock specifications! by darkwiz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Warning, annoying obfuscation of details of my employment due to NDA...

      As someone who may have done shock tests for a "small" company, I can tell you that is a bit misleading.

      The shock rating typically is determined by placing a drive on an apparatus that drops the drive from a height onto a platform with a controlled shock response (how much it gives, the exact spring constant to give you a certain duration of a pulse). This distance IIRC (say for 800G at 2ms pulse width), is approximately 7ft. This pulse is idealized as a sinusoid with a maximum around the target shock (in this example, 800G).

      1500G would be more, but not like firing it out of a gun at a brick. 15000m/s/s is a quick change in velocity. But a little mathematics would show that it isn't inconceivable for a quick stop from a relatively low speed.

      I'm sure someone doing some karma enterprising could find some links to companies that develop industrial packaging testing equipment.

    4. Re:Shock specifications! by screwtheNSA · · Score: 0

      Accelerate: to increase one's speed. Decelerate: to decrease one's speed. "G" ratings: Going from zoom to stop in .X microseconds and survive.

      --
      206.39.38.2, DDN-BLK-36, DOD NET INFO CENTER. 800.365.3642 206.36.0.0-206.39.255.255 NET RANGE.
    5. Re:Shock specifications! by rcw-work · · Score: 1
      Accelerate: to increase one's speed.

      Acceleration is actually any change in velocity.

    6. Re:Shock specifications! by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      I've read before that the Microdrive's 1500G rating is the equivalent of a "drop from a desk onto medium-soft carpet." It's not the impact, it's the deceleration.

      Tim

    7. Re:Shock specifications! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends whether you're using folk language or scientific. Just like the difference between a "calorie" and a "Calorie" (the "calorie" in your food is actually a kilocalorie scientifically). Accelerate means "speed up" to the common man -- and there's nothing wrong with that; not everyone cares about points of reference, etc.

    8. Re:Shock specifications! by darkwiz · · Score: 1

      Err... what is the difference between impact and deceleration? WRT the physics of the shock? Deceleration occurs upon impact.... One is a cause, the other an effect....

      Yes, the surface it is dropped onto is EVERYTHING when it has to do with the ac[de]celeration. A hard surface will tend to give a very sharp, high intensity force curve. A soft surface will give a long duration (relatively), with a lower intensity.

      However, shock ratings can be misleading. The shape of the pulse is also extremely important. Different shapes mean different effective constituent frequencies. 1500G != 1500G in some cases because the impact shape may highlight resonance problems (especially when the head is not parked).

      Think of it like jumping on a trampoline. When you shove as hard as you can, as fast as you can, you aren't in sync with the natural vibration of the trampoline. But if you jump a little slower bringing your stride into sync with it, you can jump higher and higher (to a point).

      Anyway, drop from a desk onto carpet... all the shock tests I did were synthetics (ie: not drops onto carpet). So it is hard for me to talk precisely about this. However, I find it subjectively unlikely that a 3ft drop onto carpet could possibly create a 1500G 2ms force.

  16. They work well but are pretty fragile by Phil+Wherry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've got two of these beasts (as well as one of the older 340M versions) for digital camera use.

    In general, they work pretty well. They're a little bit slower than flash memory, and they use more power--but those are really about the only practical differences under normal circumstances.

    You can hear the disk spinning (and the head actuator operating) if you listen carefully, but it's by no means loud.

    They do demand careful treatment, though. A friend of mine dropped his Microdrive from about waist height onto carpet, and it never worked again.

    1. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by stripes · · Score: 5, Interesting
      They do demand careful treatment, though. A friend of mine dropped his Microdrive from about waist height onto carpet, and it never worked again.

      On the other hand Bill Biggart (the only PJ to be killed wile covering the towers collapse) had one in his digital camera. It survived, he didn't, nor did the film in either of his film cameras (the backs burst open). So while his ~30 rolls of film taken earlier were good his last surviving pictures were on the 1G microdrive.

      There is a picture of the remains of his camera (on a stark white background) on the cover of the current American Photo magazine. It includes some pretty stunning interviews of a half dozen or so pros that were covering the event.

      It is pretty amazing to read how they were "operating on automatic", and "could barely see the viewfinder through the tears", and look at the same time at the amazingly well framed photos (like James Nachtwey's shot for Time with the building coming down in the background framed against the top of a church and it's cross on page 20).

      A geek should own it just for the machine beat to death on the cover.

      A photo geek should own it for the interviews and pictures.

      Everyone who reads news papers should own it to see how the people that get their pictures risk their lives sometimes for them.

      I can't find the Am Photo cover online, but doing a google search for "Bill Biggart American Photo" does turn up a whole bunch of relevant articles (including a surprisingly good MSNBC one).

    2. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by stripes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ah, found it, as an added bonus if you read the rest of the thread you get to see me be beaten up for not knowing the difference between a PCB in the camera and one in the lens.

    3. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by naasking · · Score: 1

      That could be more due to static discharge than rough handling.

    4. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Saeger · · Score: 2, Funny
      Do you photography geeks still insist that traditional film is somehow better than digital?

      (If you need to make your photo "grainy" or otherwise "shitty looking", photoshop can do that. Though there's some other lens artifacts, like bokeh(sp?), that are just best forgotten.)

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    5. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Howie · · Score: 1

      From a recent trawl of photo.net, looking for some sort of SLR-like digital camera(don't bother, they're too expensive :( ), I found that it's more like: It's only art if it involves silver halides. It's OK to use darkroom techniques to 'fiddle' with a print, but unspeakably evil to scan a print and do the same with Photoshop, or god forbid, use CCDs to capture the original image.

      Part of the reasoning is technical (most CCDs don't have the range of tone that film can deal with), but most of it is pure superstition.

      [can anyone recommend a decent sub-$1000 digital camera for playing with manual-SLR-like photography - manual focus, macro, long exposure...?]

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    6. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by stripes · · Score: 2
      Do you photography geeks still insist that traditional film is somehow better than digital?

      The ones that hang out on dpreview sure don't. Nor do most PJs. Other shooters have other opinions.

      I'm pretty happy with the output of $2000 cameras at about 8x10, but I would not want to do a multi foot print with one if it is to be viewed close up (I have one on my wall from my DSLR, and from across the room it looks great, up close it is way soft -- it was also only $20 so it's a great deal compared to medium format processing and enlarging). Of corse for that even normal 35mm film seldom works (you can do it with techpan, but you need a ton of light to get an ISO 12 film to capture anything that is alive, and a tripod for stills), you need medium format for that.

      There are, of corse, some people who think any camera with batteries is evil, or at least any that needs batteries. They won't ever like digital. Most of them are a bunch of posers. Some of them have a real need for a camera that works well in sub zero tempatures. Other people just object to digital's cost (when a $120 Stylus Epic can produce images better then a $1000 CoolPix 995, and weights almost nothing, they do have a point -- even if it leaves out all the stuff the 995 does better).

      (If you need to make your photo "grainy" or otherwise "shitty looking", photoshop can do that.

      I don't, but I will admit sometimes it makes black and white pictures look better. It really doesn't do anything for me with color.

      Well, there are a few exceptions. The really expensive film recorders use ISO3 film that is pretty much grainless so you can scan in 35mm movie footage, process it, and spit it back out and have the grain match un processed frames. They way you can't tell which sequences have digital effects just by noticing a change int he film grain. That's a pretty good use, but only because the original film had grain.

      Though there's some other lens artifacts, like bokeh(sp?), that are just best forgotten.)

      That shows a pretty serious lack of understanding of the term. Bokeh (no, I'm not sure if it is spelled right) is the quality of the out of focus highlights (bright points). There can be bad bokeh, like Canon's otherwise fine 50mm f/1.8 lens produces, in that case what should be points of light or small circles show up as hexagons (look at the far eye). There is also good bokeh, which I fail to really be able to tell from "Ok bokeh" which is just plain old round out of focus high lights.

      It is a good idea to make sure you don't have bad bokeh, otherwise you have to be extremely careful to avoid highlights when you try to use selective focus. This is a problem for both digital and film cameras (the example I showed was from my digital camera), it comes from the lens, not the imager. It is not much of a problem for all of the current digital point and shoots because their imagers are so physically small that you can't selective focus except when doing macro (extreme close ups) shots. Which is a shame because selective focus is great for isolating the interesting part of your picture and turning a bunch of random bad looking crap int he background into a blue of pleasing color, or at least no longer distracting color, unless it is full of hexagons of light or little donuts of light.

      Other then macro shots the only way to do selective focus like effects is to carefully select the non subject parts of your image and blur them. It is a giant pain because it takes quite some time to select everything (maybe 5 to 10 min with a good tablet, an hour with a mouse/trackpad) and do a half decent blur (and it still looks wrong since the amount of blur doesn't change with distance, unless you spend way way too much time on it -- most people won't notice this though, so it only screws things up if you try to submit the photo to a competition or a stock agent). That is a lot longer then it takes to click the f-stop a little to the right or a little to the left (way way way under a second). On the plus side it lets you fiddle until you have it "just so" even for real-life events which is something you normally only get to do with still life style photography. You can also get away with less light since you can use f/2 or larger openings on things that my require f/5.6 or f/8 in 35mm to get enough depth of field.

    7. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by jridley · · Score: 1

      I was thinking about this the other day after talking to someone who doesn't like digital.

      My analogy:
      Artists aren't still limited to using crushed berries and charcoal on rocks as their medium. A *good* artist uses whatever tools allows him to best express the art.

    8. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Phork · · Score: 1

      film still has more resolution, and more range than digital. I have yet to see a digital camera that comes anywhere near the quality of roleiflex shoot 6cm*6cm frames of kodak tech pan, hell i dont think they come near the quality of a 35 mm camera shooting tech pan.
      The other problem with digital is the cost. to get a digital body that has interchangeable lenses, the minimum you are looking at is $300. im sorry, the magnifying filters they have for some digitial cameras just don't cut it.
      But don't get me wrong, I shoot digital frequently, it is great for quick snapshots. it is nice to not have to scan in prints. its nice to have pictures online in less than 5 minutes. But the main thing I do is art photography.
      Im of the opinion that digital photography and film photography should be considered two different mediums, because they are very different, and have different uses. saying people should stop using film because we have digital now is like saying painters should stop using oil paints because we have acrylic paints now. or like someone 15 years ago saying that photographers should stop using SLRs because we have these nice handy point and shoot cameras now. they have different uses.

      --
      -- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
    9. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Phork · · Score: 1
      if you look around photo.net, at good portion of it is shot on digital these days, and most people dont object. most people on photo.net don't even object to using photoshop to do small things to scanned prints, like cover dust spot, or increase the bringhtness a small amount. what they do object to is large changes to the images. they object to it because it isnt photgraphy, it's digital manipulation. They would object just as much is people were submiting scans of paints they had painted.

      And as for digital SLRs, you wont find one for under $3000usd.

      --
      -- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
    10. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a simple difference. Resolution.
      35mm film is equivalent to 25m pixels.
      You can use a film scanner at 5000 dpi
      to produce a great digital image.
      Cant see it on any screen but
      it produces a great blown up print.
      A single ccd cant be made that big yet
      I think. However, a scanner dosent
      require a single ccd like element
      to beable to scan 25m pixels at once.

    11. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Damn... you outgeeked me.

      So basically, film is still better for highres posters and panaramic shots and such, unless you pay out the ass for a digital equiv. But 99.9% of the time... well... you know.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    12. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by stripes · · Score: 2
      Damn... you outgeeked me.

      Ah, music to my ears :-)

      So basically, film is still better for highres posters and panaramic shots and such, unless you pay out the ass for a digital equiv.

      Pretty much, except I'm not sure you can get digital for moving subjects that beats medimum and large format film. For still shots BetterLight makes a lot of scanning backs (for normal MF film cameras!) that are wonderful, and "only" $70,000 to $120,000 or so. Very affordable :-)

      Also panos can be done pretty well with digitals by stitching together multiple images, but that is more time conuming then buying a panno film camera, and the panno film camera will have less distortion from subject movment.

      But 99.9% of the time... well... you know.

      Yep, 99.9% of the time a $2200 digital SLR can makes results as good as a $200 film SLR (unless you use slide film in the SLR), and 99.9% of the time a $200 to $900 point and shoot digital can beat disposable to $200 point and shoot film cameras on image quality. There are other things the digital wind on 100% of the time. Working with flash (studio strobes, monolights, etc.) is one of them. As is being able to take way more shots without having an expensave and inconvient bulk load back. As is lower per shot cost once you take at least 300 shots a day :-) Oh, and also it does...

      Unfortunitly the $2200 DSLR has pretty bad autofocus (low light it sucks without a focus assist from one of the speedlights), probbably because it took the focus system from a several year old APS film design (because the APS film frame and the D30 imager are almost the same size, so the light path works out...). That's not a "digital problem" though, just a problem for that one camera. the one affordable DSLR...well, the one not made by Fuji at least. The Nikon D1 (D1X, D1H) and the Canon EOS-1D all have wonderful AF systems, the 1D's is the same as the 1V film camera has, which is frequently claimed to be the best in the world (by Canon, Nikon and Contax have other ideas).

    13. Re:They work well but are pretty fragile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you boring fuckers. that was funny.

  17. "plateau" is wrong word to gussy up your prose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    flash cards and other competing storage media this small havent reached the 1GB plateau (yet)

    and I hope they never do: plateau implies that once it's reached, we'll be stuck there for a while.

  18. Uses for microhard drive by AmigaAvenger · · Score: 1
    Yes it will run freebsd... and any other operating system you can put on a 100 mhz computer. (Tiqit) Our local balloon group has flown this thing (the tiqit) on several missions up to 100k+ feet. The best part about the hard drive is the Compact Flash Type II form factor, just toss it into a regular pcmcia adapter and you can use it on a PC.

    One note about this hard drive, or any other hard drive for that matter. They might be tough and made for a laptop, but they will not work about 20,000-30,000 feet, confirmed by IBM engineers. We never got a chance to actually flight test one for fear of distruction, but the consensus was it wouldn't make it back anyway.

  19. busted microdrive by kidtexas · · Score: 1

    I could just see myself buying one of these, and, forgetting that it was in my back pocket, sitting on it and breaking it with my fat ass.

    1. Re:busted microdrive by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Just curious - wouldn't fat asses be less likely to break stuff in back pockets than boney asses?

      --
  20. Casio digicam is shipped with these by RoyalTS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Casio QV4000 4.13 Mega-Pixel Digital Camera is shipped with IBM microdrives for storage.

  21. MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Informative

    good enough to steal a large slice of the MP3 player/PDA/Digital Camera pie by simply slashing prices to allow, say, a tiny 1GB MP3 portable for under $250

    You did see the headline off of ibm's microdrive site, didn't you? The MP3 player they show has 3 versions:
    player + 340 MB Microdrive sells for $299
    player + 512 MB Microdrive sells for $349
    player + 1000 MB Microdrive sells for $399, the same price as the Apple ipod with a 5000 MB drive.
    Still aways away from $250, but getting close.

    The biggest surprise is the formfactor of this player. This thing based on the microdrive is BIGGER than the ipod, which is based on a pcmcia-sized form factor 5GB drive! What's the point of a small drive if you stick it in a big case?

    edigital: 4.3" x 2.5" x 0.87", 4.9 ounces
    ipod: 4.02" x 2.43" x 0.78", 6.5 ounces

    The ipod is about an ounce and a half heavier, but holds 5x the data, and has firewire instead of USB. The edigital features voice recognition, but also wastes space with the traditional screen and buttons. Battery life is comparable - 10 hours for the ipod, 12 for the edigital.

    1. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Well when you consider I use the microdrive with my ipaq it doesn't really matter - the 340 when I bought it stores around 6 cd's (more then enough for the day). Price doesn't matter because I bought the ipaq as a pda, not mainly as an mp3 player. When I got it 2 years ago the ipod didn't exist and it cost me 129$. Sure the whole setup cost me like 729$.

      Ipod is great and all, but what do you do when you don't have a mac?

    2. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 1

      sink into a slough of computing despond usually, what do you do?

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    3. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      but the burning question is... what file format is used on that microdrive/cf card in these mp3 players. If I can pop the drive/card in my card reader/writer and upload mp3's to it and then drop it in the player and go.... I'll buy it right now. Everything else I have tried that uses CF cards REQUIRE their software to encrypt or demolish the music to "assure content protection"

      AS soon as I can find a mp3 player that works with a standard filesystem and regular mp3 files... I'll buy it, and I'll buy it now.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by hrath · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can highly recommend the NEX II from Frontierlabs. It is a tiny compact flash based player that can act also as a USB storage device. Just format the CF as a regular DOS/VFAT filesystem and copy unencrypted MP3 files on it and off you go. Highly recommended, right now CompUSA (bah) is carrying it with a 32 MB CF for $99, I've also seen it quite a few times on Ebay.

      Frontier's website is at http://www.frontierlabs.com

      The one slight gotcha for me is that when I copy files from Linux 2.4.17 via USB onto the CF in the player it hangs at the end. Not a big problem though, as a I have a notebook and can just stick the CF in the PCMCIA slot.

      regards,

      Heiko

    5. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by Howie · · Score: 1

      I bought a DivaPlayerjust before christmas, partly because it was cheap ($70 with 32Mb built-in, and a CF slot), and partly because it was pretty much the only device I could find that took CF - I already have a few 64Mb CF cards for my camera and my PDA.

      It takes a FAT-formatted CF card, and also acts as a USB-connected drive - no special software at all! It also will record voice notes as 8Khz WAVs onto the same media.

      The sound quality is... OK, but a bit noisy. It's probably about the same as a good cassette walkman, but not as good as my MD walkman. I think that's noise in the output stages, because the same files sound MD/CD quality on my PC through the same headphones.

      [the site linked above also has the NEX-II that someone else recommended for OK prices]

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    6. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by Genady · · Score: 1

      Dah... the iPod uses HFS(+?) and is mountable under Linux. You can get at the MP3 files (they're in /Volumes/iPod/iPod Control/Music in OS X)

      All that crap about not being able to copy from one machine to another with an iPod? FUD. It's easy. find . -name '*.mp3' -exec cp {} \Users\Shared\Music.

      --


      What if it is just turtles all the way down?
    7. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by psychosis · · Score: 3, Informative

      The NexII seems to be what you are looking for. http://www.frontierlabs.com. $100 with no storage, and takes any CF or microdrive. super kickass - mine's on order.

    8. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by Cryptnotic · · Score: 2
      Ahh, but the iPod requires the purchase of a Macintosh computer, which costs at least $799. That brings the total cost to $1198, not including tax or shipping.


      Cryptnotic

      --
      My other first post is car post.
    9. Re:MP3 player -- IPOD is smaller!! by adamn · · Score: 1

      Not true. It does require a firewire card (as little as $30 for a PC), but I have my iPod happily working with my non-apple PC thanks to the engineers over at Mediafour. It's by far the best mp3 player available imho.

  22. Millions and billions by Lionel+Hutts · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, this kind of stupidity isn't confined to the tech world. In online news, even from reputable sources, I see financial people writing "million" where they mean "billion" or "trillion" so often, I've realized, that I've started subconsiously figuring out how many dollars they _must_ have meant, and ignoring the start of words ending with "illion." Ugh, ugh, ugh.

    This, _and_ I don't get to watch Maria Bartiromo when I turn off the TV?

    --
    I Can't Believe It's A Law Firm, LLP does not necessarily endorse the contents of this message.
  23. It's a nice little drive. by spectrum · · Score: 1

    One of the best little pieces of technology I own.I bought one almost a year ago for my Canon Powershot G1 camera. Floppies? What are they? I just upload everything i need to take with me onto my camera. :)

    --
    dave.
  24. 1 GB MP3 portable by somekid · · Score: 1

    The Frontier Labs Nex II Mp3/WMA player has been out for more than a year and supports IBM Microdrive and CompactFlash. When you plug it in to your computer, it shows up as an external hard drive and you can copy all filetypes onto it, making it useful as a portable hard drive as well. www.frontierlabs.com
    -max

    --
    --------------------------------------- "No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda ------------------------
  25. What, no 1G Flash? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Because flash cards and other competing storage media this small havent reached the 1GB plateau (yet)

    I beg to differ and again. I've posted these before, and Pendrive even has Linux drivers, just FYI.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:What, no 1G Flash? by anfloga · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hm, it had a nice picture of a 1.0GB compact flash, but on the list of available products, it only listed up to 512MB.

  26. Digital Camera usage by rosewood · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My roomate has one of these for his Canon EOS Digital Camera. Every picture he takes is over 1 meg and yet he still gets a few hundred pictures on it. Its friggen amazing. He did a 2 hour timelaps shot with it and had a 100+ meg picture and it was no big deal. His only current bitch is he hasn't found a firewire adapter for his PC for this because USB is just a bitch for transfering that many files of that size.

    1. Re:Digital Camera usage by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your roommate should get a CF reader for his PC. I gave a link, but I've seen dozens of them on the market.

    2. Re:Digital Camera usage by rosewood · · Score: 1

      Thanks - I passed it along

      (This is my 3rd try to submit this comment - last time I had waited 21 seconds but yet I need to slow down cowboy)

    3. Re:Digital Camera usage by Howie · · Score: 1

      His only current bitch is he hasn't found a firewire adapter for his PC

      Huh? Wave a stick around, and you'll probably hit a few 1394 cards... or does the EOS use some 'special' firewire? Regular firewire cards start at about $30. You can get a Creative Audigy soundcard with one built-in port for about $70. [doing rough conversions from £ to $]

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
  27. 1GB MicroDrive alternative exists by martyb · · Score: 5, Informative

    Because flash cards and other competing storage media this small havent reached the 1GB plateau (yet...)


    I stumbled upon an article yesterday which announced a 1GB Flash Memory CF card, but can't find it now. But, a quick
    search on google offered me SanDisk announce 1 GB CF Type I that was dated November 5, 2001 and predicted retail availability in Q1 2002 at under $800. Granted, that's a higher price than the IBM MicroDrive, but it also has a much lower power consumption, so battery life would be greatly improved. In addition, the SanDisk offering has no moving parts, so it also has greater shock resistance.

  28. my 1GB CF card. by garcia · · Score: 2

    I love my 1GB card. I had a 64mb CF card prior that (and thought it was huge) but now I can store just about anything I want on my PocketPC and not have to worry about running out of room anytime soon.

    Nothing like carrying around SimCity 2k, a bunch of MP3s and all the courses to Ziogolf. And those Palm users think that their 8mb machines are the shit. Ha! :)

    My 64mb card is getting good use in my digital camera. It hold like 100+ pictures but it is nothing like having that HD in there.

    The only thing that I find as a drawback is the fact that there is no "lip" on the card to pull it out of the slot in the back of the PocketPC. Other than that small drawback it is great.

    I suggest that anyone who uses a CF card makes the investment.

    1. Re:my 1GB CF card. by Leven+Valera · · Score: 2
      I love my 1GB card. I had a 64mb CF card prior that (and thought it was huge) but now I can store just about anything I want on my PocketPC and not have to worry about running out of room anytime soon.

      Or, you can rock out with the PCMCIA sleeve and this little 5GB gem from Toshiba, and walk around with all of the above, some MP3's, and a couple of Divx movies.

      Little more weight, five times the storage, and the last time I looked, the price difference was about $40 or so.

      Cheers,
      LV
      --
      Woot w00t w007.
    2. Re:my 1GB CF card. by garcia · · Score: 1, Troll

      all the PCMCIA sleeves I have seen for the Cassiopeia were w/an external powersupply only (I was looking to use my wireless PCMCIA cards w/it)

      External PS's just won't work.

  29. Or I could get... by niftyeric · · Score: 1

    "...simply slashing prices to allow, say, a tiny 1GB MP3 portable for under $250."

    Or spend ~$150 more and get 4 more gigs and sex in a small package. ^_^ But the only downside to that is if you're a Win* user, you'll have to wait for these guys to finish their product, and hopefully they do soon.

    Of course, I'm having trouble myself justifying a $400+ MP3 player when I got my new system (P3/1Ghz, 512mb ram, 40gig hdd, GeForce2, etc) for just $100 more. Hmm..

    --
    proton != antielectron
  30. I've got one.... by tigris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    and it's mighty fine. Pop it into my Casio QV-4000 and get over a 1000 shots {:-D} at 1600x1200 with the "Fine" setting on. Then I can immediately eject the card and pop it into my iPAQ using the packaged PC Card adapter and hand the shots around for other people to enjoy.

    Power consumption doesn't seem so bad - a little more than the normal CF cards.

    Amazingly I dropped my iPAQ with the Microdrive inserted about 4 feet onto a hard floor - the PC card adapter with the drive inside ejected and skidded across the floor. I nearly died but everything is still working fine (knock on wood).

    Prices are pretty good if you use pricegrabber or other similar things - picked mine up for less than US $300 at buy.com (long may it live).

    A definite recommend if you need a lot of capacity in a small package and don't normally travel with a laptop

    Tig

    1. Re:I've got one.... by sporty · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just a bit of logic to add to your ipod story, mind you, it parks the heads when not in use. The iPod has a cache to support 20 minutes of music (at 128kbps I believe).

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

  31. Holding off by shoemakc · · Score: 1

    Who cares about 6GB when 1MB Compact Flash cards are due out soon?

    I mean...aside from the fact you'd need 6000 of em...

    --
    --an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
  32. Other types of memory by RobPiano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    512 meg ddr ram costs 186.99 shipped from crucial..

    This stuff also has REALLY high demand, much higher than microdrives. Moore's Law. "Every 18 months the performance will double and the size will half." A gig of this is already here at $950 from kingston. Its only a brief matter of time before this technology is better and faster than the microdrive.

    Rob

    1. Re:Other types of memory by BOFslime · · Score: 0

      how does this comment warrent "insightful"? compareing ram to storege media? nither technology is trying to accomplish anything anywhere near the other. ram is random access temporary storege. The microdrive/flash media are semi perminat storage. Ofcorse its in high demand, people are wanting more ram for there systems! there are alot more servers and workstations out there than pda's looking to expand storage. plus.. ram is really really cheap right now.

      one more thing.. ram IS faster than the microdrive, its solid state!

    2. Re:Other types of memory by RobPiano · · Score: 1

      My appologizes,

      I only mentioned it because at $250 it was similar to the cost of memory now. I believe that the main use of platter style hard drives is that memory has been too expensive. The technology is being increasingly developed and I would not be suprised at all if we saw solid state devices becoming more popular. Yes its more expensive but when it comes to entertainment equiptment, people will spend ridiculous amounts. Platter hard drives offer noise, and audiophiles won't stand for it. At 190 for 512 megs of ram, they won't have to for long.

      Here are some semi relevant links:

      http://www.sparcproductdirectory.com/curtisart.h tm l

      http://www.sharkyextreme.com/forums_spotlight/15 /6 .shtml

      http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,30 93 25,00.html

    3. Re:Other types of memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mram will be what you're looking for ~2004

  33. You sure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmm, you sure it was your friend who broke his microdrive?

    Geek toy-breakage being very painful can easily lead to denial :-)

  34. Impressive, but still primitive... by weave · · Score: 2

    I'm waiting for the day when we look back and marvel at the thought that storage devices actually had moving parts in them at one time. How primitive!

    1. Re:Impressive, but still primitive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm waiting for the day when I get an alert on my WAP device that bin Laden is dead. My guess is that in both cases, we'll be waiting a long time.

  35. Vibration Stability? by de+la+mettrie · · Score: 1
    Unfortunately, this drive (by necessity of design) incorporates moving parts, an inelegancy thought to be overcome with the advent of MP3 players...

    Does anyone have data concerning its vibration resilience? (namely, does it skip while the person holding the player it is integrated in is running?)

  36. IPaq with CFCard Jacket. :) by Ch_Omega · · Score: 1

    Yeh, I think Compaq actually sells the microdrive on their iPAQ webpages. :)

    1. Re:IPaq with CFCard Jacket. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This is ten words, three commas, one letter, and a dot."

      Isn't that eleven words? Last time I checked, "a" was a word as well as a letter...

  37. Small expensive things are always bad (Re:Humm...) by Tsar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Small expensive things are always bad.

    That's exactly how I explained it to my fiancé—she didn't buy it either.

    --
    Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these! You could fit 80GB into the space of a... oh, never mind.

  38. Good Drives for MP3 Players by Chris+Canfield · · Score: 1

    I'm glad to see the improvements that IBM has made to their microdrive. I hope that the advances they make there will trickle down into their much more musically relavant line of laptop hard drives. Archos and Sonic Blue (rio) both use Laptop Hard Drives in their players to very good extent. A laptop drive is already low-powered and slim (though not as slim as the microdrive), but has the added bonuses of being low-cost and sturdy enough for a portable. Laptop hard-drives are more power efficient than the Microdrive, and are about 20 times larger for the same cost (a 20 gig jukebox can be found for roughly the same cost as just the microdrive).

    People have proven their willingness to buy CD-based MP3 portables, showing that size isn't everything. The ones that still buy the flash-memory sized drives do so for athletic reasons where durability is a must. The Microdrive fills neither of these niches.

    I'm sure the microdrive will find a home in the shirt-pockets of photographers everywhere. However, as a storage medium for mass market music goes, it is overpriced and underperforming.

    --
    This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
  39. I've got one... by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2

    I have a 1 gig microdrive, it came with my camera. Let me tell you, the amount of space is fantastic. I haven't had to delete anything in months. It's almost too much for a digicam.

    There is one thing I don't like about it, though; it's much slower than flash memory. I've found it tends to restrain me from shooting quickly. Sometime soon I'll probably get a 256M flash card and move the microdrive into a compatible MP3 player.

    1. Re:I've got one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit? echanical devices are slower than solid state ones? SHit, I am glad you posted this drivel at +2 so you could inform us all! Fucktard.

  40. Alternatives by sarcast · · Score: 3, Informative
    Since most of these drives come with a PCMCIA interface, I decided to check them out a while ago for my new Compaq iPAQ 3835.

    They list several that are compatible with the iPAQ on their website.

    Of course there is the MicroDrive Which comes in the 340MB or 1GB flavors.
    The Kingston DataPak Which holds 260MBor 2GB/5GB storage capacity.
    and the Toshiba MK2001MPL a 2GB PCMCIA HDD or the 5GB version

    Many of these are cheaper per megabyte than the MicroDrive and will give you much more storage for around the same price. They are supposed to work with any desktop Windows OS (98/ME/2K/XP) and Compaq says they will work with the iPAQ as well.

    I bought the Toshiba 5GB and hooked it up to my iPAQ so I could play DivX movies with the Pocket DivX Player from ProjectMayo. I also store a whole bunch of MP3s on it and can transfer the card between my computer and iPAQ for easy file transfers.

    These little hard drives are great for anyone who wants portable storage that is large capacity and is pretty easy to use.

  41. Re:yawn. by ColaMan · · Score: 2


    But in this case, they're getting bigger *and* smaller.

    --

    You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
    There is a lot of hype here.
  42. I dropped mine onto tile a year ago by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    From waist high; saw it hit on a corner and take a terrific bunch of bounces. On *tile*. That was a year ago and it's still working great.

  43. Can you imagine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...a RAID cluster of these?

  44. USB KeyDrives and RealMedia on the Go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What about the (too expensive for now, but perhaps ideal for later) USB Keychain Storage options?

    And can realmedia be taken on the go? I've never seen a player that supports *.ra files, but it would be very nice. Honestly, I believe companies ought to begin to create "PORTABLE DIGITAL AUDIO PLAYERS," instead of MP3 players. I'd also like to see the ogg files begin to be supported.

    And for those of you who are *one file type zealots*, I'd just like to tell you that your personal opinions are not practical for most folk who would like to use portable audio for more than just music. Websites are beginning to host speeches, sermons, short stories, books and news broadcasts all on archivable digital audio and if someone would like to listen to it on the go, they must have a versitile player. Also, it would be nice to see the audible.com standard be more widely used, because (and this is why i am holding off on buying a portable digital audio player) nobody is putting all of the necessary features into one product!

    so if someone's listening out there, i'd like an affordable, small, but large in storage, digital audio player, which will not skip when shook up, will play all of the predominant digital audio file formats (ogg, mp3, ra, wma, audible), (will pref. have modules to expand to other formats) and a easy, thorough interface to the computer which allows good customization of the content, oh yeah and also some sort of rechargable batteries. When that goes on the market, i'll buy two. one for me, and one for my dog.
    cheers!
    -guy

  45. Re:Moores Law by rtaylor · · Score: 2, Informative

    It truely is amazing how many people quote what they think is Moores Law only to be radically off.

    It has to do with TRANSISTERS doubling every 18months. Nothing at all to do with performance, other than as a side effect -- and thats usually a side effect. Sometimes there is no performance boost at all if the transisters are used for compatibility or configurability. Like say Microcode modifications and X86 compatibility layers.


    "The observation made in 1965 by Gordon Moore, co-founder of Intel, that the number of transistors per square inch on integrated circuits had doubled every year since the integrated circuit was invented. Moore predicted that this trend would continue for the foreseeable future. In subsequent years, the pace slowed down a bit, but data density has doubled approximately every 18 months, and this is the current definition of Moore's Law, which Moore himself has blessed. Most experts, including Moore himself, expect Moore's Law to hold for at least another two decades."

    --
    Rod Taylor
  46. Re:Moores Law by rtaylor · · Score: 3, Funny

    s/TRANSISTERS/transistor density/

    Can't believe it. Two mistakes, one word. Talk about dense...

    --
    Rod Taylor
  47. Never worked right by hyrdra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Keeping with IBM's tradition of success with their DeskStar line (my 75 gig just failed the other day), I have had three microdrives before finally returning it and purchasing a 320 MB CompactFlash card for $120.

    The drive never did actually fail, it only refused to do things like spin up, or would lock up when writing to it. It always seemed to not want to work when I needed it most. And this was for use with a digital camera, handheld, and laptop with CF adapter. I can't imagine using the device for lesiure.

    The thing that got me so enraged was the drive would look like it was writing to the disk, then when I would get home from shooting pics or after I copied a huge file there would be only a few random pictures or the filesystem would be corrupt -- not even salvagable.

    I'm sure it wasn't my digital camera or any of my other hardware because I tried it in several friends cameras and sure enough it was finicky beyond use. Who knows? Maybe I just got a bad lot -- but I've heard from many others, especially on the digital photography web site that while they would love to use the drive, how can they get it to be reliable? I've never had flash media complain or give me any kind of trouble.

    I'd also like to comment on battery usage. Without the MD, I would get about 6-8 hours usage from my iPAQ, however using the drive sparinkly and under normal use that figure drops to around 2-3 hours, 4 tops. Using a CF flash card, I can't even notice a difference (although there probably is one). The microdrive is clearly very demanding of power -- it also heats up *quite* nicely till you can barely hold the device (great for this time of year during the cold though).

    Don't even ask about digital cameras. Having to deal with a power-sucking CCD is enough, and when you bring the MD into the picture you have a good *two dozen* shots before the dreaded battery warning. And this is on 1800 mAH NiMH batteries. What's the point in being able to store 700 pictures on one media when you constantly have to switch batteries (assuming you have a few pre-charged sets).

    The MD is a great technical feat -- there's no doubt about that. But I would questions its everyday use outside the tradeshow and webzine review for both professionals and lesiure use. I head some of the Delkin MDs are better, but I'm still sure there are some problems. With a 2GB version on the horizon for IBM's model, the microdrive will probably get better. But that begs to ask the real question as to if CF flash media will become cheaper $/MB as the demand is higher and the market is more competitive.

    --


    "I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
    1. Re:Never worked right by jridley · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you had an incompable camera. Just because the microdrive will physically go in to the camera doesn't mean it'll work right.

      I used a 1GB microdrive in my Pro90 for about 8 or 9 months, shooting thousands of photos, and never a problem or lost picture.

      I'd also wonder what camera you had that could only take a couple dozen photos on a set of 1800 mAH batteries. The Pro90 has a LiIon battery, 1500 mAH at 7.2 volts, and with the microdrive in place, I tested it at 158 shots per charge in NORMAL use (walking around the zoo, taking photos of animals, extensive use of zoom, etc, not sitting in a lab pushing the shutter button time and again).

      Again, I bet your camera wasn't designed for the Microdrive. You have to implement support for the power saving features of the Microdrive in firmware, otherwise it'll just spin constantly and just suck down your batteries.

      Don't blame the Microdrive if you put it in a non-compatible device then had trouble.

      Also, the 512M and 1GB drives draw a lot less power than the 1st generation 340s.

      BTW the Delkin MD is an IBM Microdrive with a sticker slapped on it.

      However, I don't really think the MD is a good option now. I dumped the Microdrive because CF memory prices started dropping like a rock, and I'd rather have CF due the much higher shock resistance. I didn't have any trouble with the Microdrive, but I was always just one slip away from dropping it on the concrete and turning it into nothing but a conversation piece.

  48. Nex II by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's Nex II (http://www.frontierlabs.com/NexII.html) that takes flash cards. Version without any card is $99 -- good if you already have a microdrive.

  49. 5 GB MicroDrive by suwain_2 · · Score: 1
    Toshiba has announced a 5 GB Microdrive, although it's not out yet. You can see the story here.

    (Note that they have a pop-up ad, if you're one of those people *really* bothered by them.)

    --
    ________________________________________________
    suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
    1. Re:5 GB MicroDrive by phillymjs · · Score: 2

      Actually, the 5GB Microdrive is already available for purchase. Apple has been selling them for a while now, with a free carrying case that has a FireWire interface and plays MP3s.

      ~Philly

  50. Using it for a year with an ipaq... by parabyte · · Score: 2, Interesting
    And I love it. I did not have any trouble with it at all; it worked from the first day, and I never experienced any failures, and I did not take special care; it usually resides in the ipaq jacket when I carry it. The only problem is the power consumption; you should use it only with the PCMCIA-Jacket which has an built in additional LI-Ion battery; I would not recommend using it with the slightly smaller CF-Jacket; it drains your batterie in less than one hour playing MP3s, while with the PCMCIA Jacket it lasts about 2-3 hours, which is acceptable in most cases.

    But the best was from the beginning that you simply insert it into your laptop and just drag all your music directly from your terabyte-server onto the disk, or play the stuff on your laptop when the ipaq ran out of power.

    The real write rate I measured is between random 1124 and sequential 1260 kbytes/sec; read was beteen random 960 kbyte and sequential 1260 kybtes/sec, access time about 20 ms; It is much faster than anything I have seen with any USB device; the speed has never felt like a problem.

    Other unexpected uses were out-of-the-box file transfer between an PowerBook and Wintel-Notebooks, and you can also store enough pr0n on such a disk without taking away much music capacity. You can also carry around a huge library of e-books without caring much about space.

    So far I did not regret the investment, and I haven't seen anyone who wasn't impressed when you handed him the smallest one gigabyte harddisk in the world: it feels heavy and expensive in your hand, and my fingers still slightly sweat when they touch it.

    p.

    P.S.: It still always surprises me how small it is, and the PCMCIA-Adapter is very IBMish: it hides the connector when you remove the drive, and locks the cover to prevent unintended exposure of the contacts. It also comes with watertight two watertight small boxes with rubber polstered corners to safely stow away the PCMCIA-Adpater and the drive.

    --
    Without order, nothing can exist. Without chaos, nothing can be created.
  51. Disadvantages compared with flashmedia by sfmarco · · Score: 1

    As noted on Steve's website

    The following should be noted when using a Microdrive:

    • Compared to CompactFlash cards, battery life is reduced due to the electrical needs of the Microdrive.
    • Since the Microdrive has moving parts, the temperature of the card increases with continuous use within the camera.
    • Compared with CompactFlash cards, the time to write is sometimes longer.
    • The data in the Microdrive can be easily damaged by shocks because the Microdrive has a working mechanism inside.
    1. Re:Disadvantages compared with flashmedia by Lord+of+Caustic+Soda · · Score: 1

      Mind you if someone drops a digital camera the lens is probably as likely to be damaged as hard drive...

      --
      Kill'em! Kill'em all!
    2. Re:Disadvantages compared with flashmedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but at least you won't lose the valuable pictures you've already taken.

  52. SanDisk already beat IBM to the chase. by Ilsundal · · Score: 1, Informative

    SanDisk has has 1GB Compact Flash media for some time now.

    --
    "True refinement seeks simplicity."
  53. overpriced compared to faster, thinner flash by mattm76 · · Score: 1
    Flash prices have been falling a lot faster than Microdrives. $235 for generic 512mb CompactFlash (CF type 1!!) from this merchant I found on pricewatch vs. $257 for the cheapest 512mb Microdrive I could find on buy.com

    The thickness of these cards is a major factor since it limits which cameras, pdas, and mp3 players you can buy to use it with. I purchased the 340mb microdrive a year ago and now it's collecting dust since I sold my Canon s20 digital camera in order to get the s110 digital elph wich only supports type 1 cf. Maybe I'll just stick it in a new Cassiopia e200. Man, this stuff just keeps getting more and more expensive!

    The microdrive was invented for impatient people like me who didn't want to wait for flash prices to fall...

  54. rpm... bologna! by moosesocks · · Score: 1

    Quite frankly, measuring the speed of the drive in RPMs is absolutely absurd, especially with a drive of this size. Even though it has less rpms, it doesn't mean a horrible data loss. Let's see...
    The microdrive is really small. A rotation for it is a lot less than a rotation for a 3.5 drive.
    Because the drive is signifigantly bigger (capacitywise and not dimensionwise as in my 3.2gb 5.25in quantum bigfoot hard drive which weighs about 12 pounds), the sectores are packed more tightly together. The head needs to travel say.... 3 microns (just a random number that divides easily) to read 30megs of data on the 320mb drive. the drive takes 1 second (a gross exxagurated) to travel and write 3 microns at the specified rpm. Since the 1gb drive, which is about 3x as big(capacity) and thus 3x as dense, it needs to travel only 1 micron to read 30mb. Say the rpm speed is 1/3 as much as the 340mb drive. It takes 1 second to travel 1 micron. Thus they are the same. Of course, these numbers are all made up, but the theory is still valid.
    There's a lot more to speed then rpm. For all I care, with a lot of time, a screwdriver, some gears, and a large gas-powered engine, you could make the drive go at 600,000 rpms. Granted, it wouldn't work, but it would be still rotating at 600000 rpms. (Note to any crazy overclockers: Don't try this, it won't work and is probably very dangerous)

    The microdrive really has nothing to compare itself to. See the comment above on the size of the drive. Besides, CF, SD or SM doesn't rotate. (unless........ never mind (see comment above regarding gasolene engine)

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  55. No mention of MTBF in that review. by nyet · · Score: 2

    The drives fail after about a year on average. We are not using udrives in our product because of this. Its great as disposable media, and a great display of technology, but they're not quite ready for prime time.

  56. MP3 players. by labratuk · · Score: 1
    I must say that I was quite disappointed when companies started putting MicroDrives into MP3 players, because IMHO it defeated what was about half the point of an MP3 player.

    That point was that an MP3 player had no moving parts which, in turn, meant that:

    -There was very long battery life, because most energy in a (walkman/discman) is wasted by the actual mechanical movement of the media.

    -You could do (within reasonable limits) whatever you wanted to it without worrying about it skipping, jittering or corrupting.

    -The device would be very reliable. (Moving parts are far more likely to break than solid state hardware)


    Now, I appreciate the fact that SSDs are many times more expensive, and therefore on a cheap device you can only practically have about 32 - 96 MB of storage (128M at best), but I still feel that the future of MP3 players and the like rely on the industry to develop cheaper Solid State Devices.

    --
    Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
    1. Re:MP3 players. by Howie · · Score: 1

      SSDs (at least CompactFlash, and I think SmartMedia) wear out eventually though.

      They have a clever internal controller to spread the wear over the gates in the device, but they will eventually fail. The number of write/erases is not that high either: something like 100,000 I think. Depending on your application that is nothing.

      Agreed, that it beats having an actual mechanical whirring thingy in your pocket. Well, actually...

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
  57. Solid state WILL make it by hfastedge · · Score: 1

    i read somewhere, maybe even here. That solid state memory is going to have a slight paradigm shift. The advent of 3-d solid state memory, where the tiniest compoments (cells/registers/nodes/bits??) are now being stacked upwards as well as sideways. This should increase the potential storage/space of solid memory. I am not sure about how retrieval speed is affected. I am curiouos, is solid state retrieval much faster than moving drives? (in general, per cost....)

    --

    -- -- --

    Help my mini cause: My journal

  58. A couple interesting things about Microdrives... by foxtrot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not all digital cameras that claim to take type-II compactflash can handle microdrives. A microdrive generates more heat than does a CF card, and also sucks more power when it spins up. Caveat emptor when doing this-- my Canon G1, for example, handles a microdrive just fine (though Canon says they don't officially support it), but a friend of mine's G1 doesn't; his is a little older than mine.

    If you can do PCMCIA, you can get more space for cheaper than the Compact-flash Microdrive. Toshiba makes 5GB type II PCMCIA hard disks now. So if the idea was to turn your iPaq into an iPod, you'd be better off getting the bigger disk.

    To the people talking about 20 GB units and such: Take a look some day at the difference in size between the laptop hard disk in a 20GB mp3 player and a Microdrive, or even the iPod's 5GB PCMCIA disk. The size difference is mind boggling.Sure, it's not for all solutions, but it's pretty darned cool for the solutions it is for.

    -JDF

  59. Batteries bigger than the disk drive.... by billstewart · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sigh. It's getting to be like that old joke about the Soviet digital watch (from back when digital watches were still cool) - solid, brightly lit, but carrying around the car battery to keep it running took half the fun out of it.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  60. Sorry, meant to mod myself down by billstewart · · Score: 1

    That's the problem with having too much karma -- You forget to turn off the "give yourself an extra point" on articles that frankly don't deserve it :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  61. RPMs don't matter much for 128kbps MP3 :-) by billstewart · · Score: 1

    It's true, the seek time is better on faster-RPM drives. But fundamentally, for an MP3 player, you don't care, because the throughput of the drive is much much faster than the 128kbps you're playing tunes at - so other than the user interface hit of a less than ten milliseconds the first time you hit the "Play" button and it reads the first track into cache, the drive's got plenty of time to seek before you need to read the next one, and your file system is probably designed to keep most tunes in mostly sequential files anyway.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  62. I'm sorry... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

    I still don't get why anyone wants to spend psycho gobs of money for 1 gig of space when 3 bucks on the high end gives you at least 650 megs of rewritable CD.

    Drive: 1024 / 250 = 4 megs a buck
    CD-RW: 650 / 3 = 216 megs a buck

    Am I the only one who gets this?
    54 times more bang for the buck here!
    I slanted the calcs in the drive's favor!

    --

    Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    1. Re:I'm sorry... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      I mean in the .mp3 player arena BTW. Though with these numbers I'm sure it could bleed into other arenas.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    2. Re:I'm sorry... by Graymalkin · · Score: 2

      Easy, solid state memory is still expensive when it comes to non-volatile memory. If I shell out beaucoup cash for a 5 megapixel camera, I don't want to shell out even more cash for a bunch of solid state memory that I have to swap out every couple shots. The reason I'm going digital is to escape some of the tedium of shooting with film right? For a MP3 player you're right but lots of memory in a compact space is usefor for more than just pira...playing music. It'd also be cool to have a high capacity small footprint drive in something like the Sony Picturebook where space and weight are an absolute premium.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    3. Re:I'm sorry... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      On the other side of the spectrum. I think it would be immensly cool to have a digital camera with a CD burner built in. Considering their already high prices and the mad cost of their media, it'd be near wonderful to be able to just plonk a blank CD in there at about 2 gigabytes per dollar for permanent storage.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
  63. tiny 1GB MP3 portable for under $250? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2

    I don't know what you mean by tiny, but my Archos Jukebox isn't small but fits into any coat pocket, is under $250, and has 6 gigs of space.

    A few peope think its "heavy," but relative to what? If you can't handle something a few ounces heavier than your CD case you should probably realize that you've entered the whining geek demographic.

  64. Re:$370 for 1GB isn't cheap by kesuki · · Score: 1

    Well they iPod does 1394...
    And the 1 GB microdrive is selling for $370.
    I suppose Sony will probablly be the next out with a firewire portable HD Based mp3 player, possibly that is compatable with the PS2.
    I'm also sure that all the major USB HD MP3 players will be announcing USB 2.0 support in the next model year.
    The micro drive is pretty amazing, but I can't see myself buying one.

  65. Re:A couple interesting things about Microdrives.. by JackdawFool · · Score: 2, Informative

    A good warning - the microdrives seem to be a bit flakey.

    I also have a G1. My microdrive (I've had the 320MB one for 14 months or so - and the 1GB version was available then as well! What is with this "news" story showing up now??) has given me lots of problems. It works very well sometimes, but often it just produces tons of CF card errors.

    An important thing to be aware of is that IBM changed the microdrive around November of 2000. They lowered the RPMs but increased the density. Despite lowering the drive's speed, because of the increased density the actual transfer speed was increased slightly, and the drive consumed a bit less power, ran cooler, and seems to have become less prone to errors. My microdrive is the older version and is likely why I've had problems with it.

    When the newer version came out, those lucky enough to receive one (around November 2000, you didn't know which one you would get when you bought it - they carried the same part numbers, same boxes; only the physical appearance and markings on the drive itself differed slightly to the outward eye) reported having no problems. I'd bet your friend has an older microdrive like I do, and you have the newer (still more than a year old) kind.

    -JF

  66. They're killer in DigiCams by JakiChan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've got a pretty good camera (Cannon G1), and since it has a monster battery the power usage of a microdrive isn't a real problem. What I love is how I can squeeze 660+ Full-size max-quality JPEGs (2048 x 1536) on there before I have to do anything about it. I was in London almost 2 weeks, and I thought I took a lot of pictures but I never even came close to filling up the drive. It frees me up from wondering should I keep a shot or not so that I can just shoot everything I see and throw out the crap when I get home. I think it's great.

    --
    "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
  67. Heeelp by Com2Kid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I was stupid enough to buy a Sony made Digicam (damn nice Digicam though). I am stuck with those horribly expensive Sony Digital Memory Sticks!! AARG!!

    Heh.

    No way you'd fit a HD in those things footprint though. Man are they SMALL! After getting used to them I was shocked at how HUGE regular memory card seem to be.

    Still doesn't help much with the fact that the d*mn things are expensive as hell though.

    Then again the CIGARET ADAPTOR for the BATTERY for my digicam costs *$90* (!!!)

    A new battery only costs $60, heh.

  68. Why mess w/1Gig when you can play w/20! :) by Bob+Snuffy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A 20G usb hot-swap/PNP drag-n-drop LINUX compatible MP3 player!?!?
    look here!
    This little puppy has been at http://www.thinkgeek.com for a long time.
    http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/electronics/5784.sh tml

    I do admit that I've never used it, but I'm sure if it didn't work, TG would've trashed it long ago. :)
    ~BS

  69. Works like a charm for me... by osolemirnix · · Score: 1
    I have a Canon Powershot S40 with the 1 GB MD. The camera uses custom LiIon batteries which are expensive, but well worth it.
    I bought one spare and get around 250-300 pictures out of the 2 batteries over a time of 4-6 hours, e.g. at a party with people always wanting to see the last couple of pictures in the display (heavy-duty use).
    Without recharging in the meantime, mind you (just so we don't confuse anthing here).

    I carry the camera dangling around in my backpack on my bike, or people shake it heavily while they hold it and so far the drive hasn't failed me since. It also worked fine after being chilled to at least -10 degrees (Celsius) while skiing.

    Highly recommended, as far as I can say. :-)

    --

    Idempotent operation: Like MS software, wether you run it once or often, that doesn't make it any better.
  70. Re:Small expensive things are always bad (Re:Humm. by TheLink · · Score: 1

    But did you buy it in the end tho? :)

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  71. Photo rolls. by TheLink · · Score: 2

    His film cameras must have been the stupid ones that roll the film out as they take pictures.

    I'd prefer those cameras that roll the film out first, then roll them back in as you take pictures. This means that shots with pictures in them will be safe in the canister.

    Why isn't this more common tho?

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    1. Re:Photo rolls. by stripes · · Score: 2
      I'd prefer those cameras that roll the film out first, then roll them back in as you take pictures. This means that shots with pictures in them will be safe in the canister.

      Lots of entry level cameras (Rebel 2000 for example) are doing that now. No pro cameras do.

      Why isn't this more common tho?

      They make mid-roll change outs take much longer then they should (cost of a part wind plus a full wind vs. just a part wind), that happens a lot when a Pro sees a shot that may show up better on another type of film (normally a different speed, sometimes a switch from slide to print because the lighting is too uneven, sometimes just a change for color effect, but that is rare).

      It also slows down how long it really takes to change a roll of film. Sure you still get one full rewind, or prewind, but it really does take longer. With a "normal" camera you hit the end of the roll, the rewind starts. You grab the next roll out of your belt pocket (if you are a real photo geek), or you shirt/pants pocket, pop open the tube, pull out the film can, make sure it is the right kind of film, and not a roll that you already shot on, as you get done with all that the camera should be about done rewinding you swap the two film cans and are ready to shoot. With a "prewind" camera you hit the end of the roll and the film is ready to come out, you have to get the next roll of film make sure it is the right one and so on, then swap the two cans and wait for the prewind. No overlaping work between you and the camera.

      That's important because the best shots always happen when you are fiddling with the film :-) Even for a pro with two (or more) cameras this is a problem because they tend to keep diffrent lenses on the cameras, and sometimes diffrent film. So if they were taking a few telephotos of football players close to them with a 70-200mm zoom the other camera is likely to have a 300mm+ lens on it for the other end of the field, or a wide angle for crowd shots.

      So the pro cameras are designed to work well for normal use where a Pro won't forget to rewind a roll, or open the back too soon (some open it just as the film leaves the take up spool, many wait until it lands in the can). They are not designed for ones that have a building fall on them at the expense of the ones that "Just shoot Football and concerts".

      Even with my digital camera the best shots are the ones just after I take 300 on my Compact Flash, and I assume once my Microdrive shows up (from the D30 rebate) they will wait for me to take 1000 or so shots...

  72. Nice, but there are other problems by billcopc · · Score: 2, Informative

    Increased capacity is always a good thing in my opinion (160gb on my home box and I still want more). The problem with IBM Microdrives is that they eat batteries faster than your 15-year-old 1st-gen discman. The typical handheld might last a whole day on its charge when using flash memory, but throw in a Microdrive and it will be dead within 2-3 hours.

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    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  73. Altitude by shaka999 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was about to buy one of these beasts until I found they have altitude limitations. Can't remember the exact number but I do recall that many of the hikes I go on here in Colorado were above the limit.

    I believe the issue is that a disk head floats on an air cushion. If the air gets to thin it will touch the platter.

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    One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-