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Simply GNUstep Delivers UNIX, Simply
Eugenia writes "A new, Linux-based operating system released recently, called Simply GNUstep and it is based on the GNUstep architecture, originally built by NeXT (OpenSTEP) and is now also used by MacOSX (Cocoa). The alpha version of the x86-based OS is available for download and boots off the 110 MB bootable CD. The cool thing about Simply GNUstep is its partial source compatibility with MacOSX programs (further compatibility is still worked on) and its clean infrastructure, as it only includes GnuSTEP graphical applications like WindowMaker, Mail.app etc. You can read an introduction article of the OS at OSNews."
Then I've found the Linux distro for me.
I've been starting to move my systems to
BSD to avoid the Redhat braindamage that seems
to be spreading to other linuces (xinetd, vi=vim,
and so on), but perhaps this might make me give
second thought... If only someone would mix
all of the BSD userland stuff with the Linux
kernel...
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
I am always interested to try new varients of unix operating systems. I will refrain for making any comments about its use until i have tried it for myself
This is almost what I want.
_ __
I am getting tired of my Gnome and KDE. I am starting to long for the days when I used WindowMaker, Postilion and FSviewer together with a cobbled up list of other xapps to get my job done simply.
The problems are paramount. Fsviewer barely works on my updated SuSE 7.3 Postilion does not like my cutting edge versions of tcl/tk and I am not yet ready to give up the laundry list of apps I need to do business for a barebones environment. Plus, I like unified look and feel that I get with say KDE or Gnome.
If I got a distribution with a laundry list of apps centered around those apps with a Nextish look and feel then I would be a happy man.
The problem with Simply GNUstep is that it is what it says it is. It is Linux with GNUstep already built and configured but it has nothing else.
If it was supplemented with other X apps with a Next feel or gtk apps with a Next theme maybe into a usable package then I think I would be in love.
_______________________________________________
ACK
When you do an install of FreeBSD, you can just choose the 'windowmaker desktop' option.
Why pick yet another Linux Distro (This is this weeks Distro of the week) when you can pick FreeBSD, an OS that has shipped with a NeXTish interface for years.
(Oh, and you get to avoid GNOME or KDE bloat, at least until you install gnumeric.)
That's not meant as a flame. I'm just curious why they chose Linux instead of a BSD. I don't exactly care to follow the licensing terms behind all the different open/free software so I'm unaware if that's an issue, but using a BSD would seem to be a wiser choice being that they're "trying" to get an OS X on x86.
I dunno.
No sig for you!!
GNUStep is arguably more impoartant than KDE or GNOME for the future of linux, and it deserves a larger audience (for testing, etc), and it can be a pain to configure, compile, and install, so a distro is good for those reasons.
However, I'm not sure it's ready yet. redraws are slower than mollasses headed uphill in January, and the sample applications (what little there is) are characterized by a lack of features and a tendency to crash.
When GNUStep is ready for prime time, I'll be happy. Hopefully, this can help that day come sooner
I remember trying to get GnuStep to work a few months back. The code compiled pretty cleanly, and I played around a bit with the development framework for GNUStep (which is rather cool btw, makes writing build files for apps extremely clean, and ObjectiveC is an extremely nice language).
I just wish there was a better way of integrating GNUStep, KDE, and Gnome. I really think a concerted effort by all three teams to support a common base (common component interfaces, clipboard, look&feel configuration files) would be beneficial for all involved.
GNUStep brings with it a good, tried&true development framework.
KDE & Gnome are both more evolved, with more and better applications.
Getting these to work together would be a worthwhile proposition.
-Laxitive
Don't most cards still work with VESA? I used some standard VESA modes in an assembly program I wrote, on my Geforce2... I'm not sure about VESA 2.0 though. (I don't know exactly what it is)
My server
Looks like it is x86 for now. Anyone know if they are aiming for a PPC version as well?
Of course that may be a bit pointless given you can get Mac OS X which is more mature, but it would still be interesting to see it.
What willbe really interesting is if this becomes kine of like a "Mine", allowing PC users to run some select Mac OS X software along with their Linux apps. Think of this as a way for Apple to take a more back door foray into the x86 world, to expand use of Apple's software and show people how cool some of Apple's software on the Mac is by getting iTunes and such to run on this thing. It would certainly give PC users who used this (who I admit would likely not be your run of the mill PC user) a taste of Apple's world without them having to go out and purchase a Mac right away.
Maybe wishful thinking, but any alternative to the current status quo (i.e. Windows) is welcome at this point even if it doesn't do all I hope it eventually can.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Back when Apple bought NeXT, I wrote a letter to Jobs suggesting that he release NeXTstep for every platform, make it open source, and become one of the standard APIs that developers use.
My point was that if he did this, and developers did adopt the platform, he'd end up with lots of apps that would run on the Mac, and would thereby neutralize the Windows API proprietary boondoggle.
He ignored my advice at the time, and this is nice, but too little too late to solve the problem of creating a true platform-independent API that developers would want to write to.
Imagine mixing steak and Jello. Sound good? Not
to me, anyhow. Often the same kind of thing happens
when you try to mix different systems together.
You get a mess of different APIs, all with different
ideas about what a string is or what kind of
API discipline is to be used. You also end up with
3 different look'n'feels, and a very complex
development learning curve.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
What's the point having another Next-ish, Linux based OS if you can have OS X on your desktop? I really don't see any sense in developing more Unix dialects. This just adds to the dilution of a stable Microsoft opposition. D
I think all (if not, most) cards on the market today are VESA 2.0 compliant. More probably VESA 3.0 compliant. It's become so basic that it's not mentionned anymore.
based on the GNUstep architecture, originally built by NeXT (OpenSTEP) and is now also used by MacOSX (Cocoa).
The above is wrong. The original NeXT Computer OS was called NeXTSTEP (notice capitalisation--it's important in what follows). When NeXT Computer ditched hardware, it became "NeXT Software", and spun off it's OS (in the 3.x version) into a cross platform OS called OpenStep (4.x).
This OS was to run on Sun, Intel and NeXT boxes. The API was modified, and made public (the API, not implementation).
This API specification was called OPENSTEP (capitalisation differs from the NeXT Software OS name).
GNUStep is therefore based on the OPENSTEP specification. No other permutation of name and inheritance is correct.
This is silly. The real vi sucks - just look at the version Sun ships which can't handle large files or long lines. Go ahead and comple vim yourself, and link vi to it and deal with it. Be happy that you get vim for vi by default instead of elvis, or one of the other horrible clones. File a bug report if RH's version is fucked.
Gnome and KDE are great if user friendly==windows98 look and feel, and if you have a fast machine with a ton of ram. To give a single example of the userfriendliness, your "main menu" in KDE or Gnome require you to move your mouse over the K or the foot, respectively. GNUstep lets you click anywhere on the background image. Additionally, in GNUstep icons are usually spaced out in a line along one screen edge so you can't possible overshoot with your mouse. Seems trivial, but it lets me work faster.
Also, GNUstep will run on some pretty old hardware. I have changed the setup lately, but I used to have KDE2 on my 900mhz duron w/ 512 MB and WindowMaker on my PII 100mhz w/ 32 MB and if you didn't actually know, you'd think the PII was faster just because the environment was so lightweight.
The state is the great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everybody else. ~F. Bastiat
Same goes for SGI.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
I havew a spiffy UI on top of Unix anyway but I amw atching this with interest, for my aging ThinkPad , which chokes on KDE/GNOME.
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
Newbie-ish question here, so please forgive...
Is functionality like copying from one graphical app and pasting to another determined by the graphical environment (GNOME, KDE) or the window manager (Enlightenment, Sawfish)?
Sometimes I can easily copy/paste between apps, while other times it just doesn't happen. Chances are good that I'm being a dolt, but it's one of my biggest complaints about the X-GUI's.
I used WindowMaker a long time ago, and it was fast and slick while GNOME + Enlightenment were functional, but SLOW for a while (>2 years ago when I first tried them). Now GNOME + Enlightenment performs well on my machine so I've been using that, but I wouldn't mind checking out WindowMaker again...
What's so hard to grab some screenshots and put them up there? I've used the NeXT machines before, and have used WindowsMaker, so I know what to expect. But still, I'd like to see screenshots. And if it looks ugly, I won't even bother. And I want to see the boot up screen too.
And you can get more users to try it out too, if they can see something before they download that 110MB of data. Even at that "small size", it's still a lot, for people like me who don't have access to high speed internet.
I went to the site and the ISO they have for download doesnt exist! stage1.iso.zip isnt there!
:(
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
I downloaded the ISO and tried to boot into it. Immediately the kernel fb support gave an "unsupported display mode" error. I checked the available modes and there was nothing but text modes available. I have a Matrox G400, which is very well supported by the kernel framebuffer drivers. In fact I use the fb console at 1024x768 on my real linux installation without problems.
The startup looked interesting, at any rate. It failed to detect my NIC (a pretty standard DEC Tulip card) and gave a few other errors I can't remember. Then it tried to run X, but since it was configured to use the framebuffer driver, which wasn't working, it choked. Needless to say if they had at least allowed the option of using the XFree86 accelerated drivers, it would have been fine, but they don't. So then the system shut itself down. This worked ok, except their kernel is compiled without APM support, so it didn't actually turn itself off.
Oh well. I'll try it again later, seems like a decent idea really.
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
I hope to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming like his passengers.
They could have lessinformation about the software, but that would be hardsince there would only be a blank page.
..........FULL STOP.
What's the point having another Next-ish, Linux based OS if you can have OS X on your desktop?
Price. It's possible to build an x86-based PC for cheaper than $800 (the lowest price of a new Macintosh computer).
Will I retire or break 10K?
I think the really interesting part is the IDE; If you have a fairly simple way to extend your computer experience, you get a little more attached to what you use and enjoy it a lot more.
Don't forget there are a lot of intelligent people who enjoy tinkering with things (computers and OSes included) but can't afford to spend too much time...
If the developers also choose a well rounded set of applications, then we'll have an interesting alternative to packing a zillion apps (almost) noone will use and creating yet another distro that confuses users about the choices, rather than being itself an alternative choice.
By having something simple you can use and extend, you are also a lot more motivated to actually use it and stick with it, rather than observe at amazement and then go back to .
Perhaps, simplicity is itself a choice sorely missed all too often nowadays...
Seems that this is rather easy to fix compared to changing distros, since you compile your own vim anyway. A couple /usr/local directories and a couple alias commands...
You need to try out nvi. Yes, SVR4 vi sucks. nvi doesn't, it's a "bug-for-bug compatible replacement for the original 4BSD vi",
meaning you get the exact behaviour of a traditional BSD vi, but the sources are unencumbered.
I'm not going to comment on vim or the other vi-lookalikes, it'd probably end in a small flame-war.
Erm... not to post the obvious... but have you ever tried Debian? It's harder to install the first time, but you get /soooo/ much control over what gets installed that if you get a bad install, you're really the one to blame ;-)
;-)
Of course, you will probably want to compile your own kernel, since the Debian kernels usually suck. But hey, that's what the LDP's Kernel HOWTO is for, right?
The file is there, at http://simplygnustep.sourceforge.net/downloads/sta ge-1.iso.zip.0 but the permissions are wrong and the link on the page is wrong. Doesn't look like they'll let us grab it yet.
They must have known the slashdot effect was coming.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
The cool thing about Simply GNUstep is its partial source compatibility with MacOSX programs (further compatibility is still worked on)
since office runs on the mac... maybe we'll see office run on Simply GNUstep (soon)?
my blog
Or my Athalon, or any of the Sparcs, or really anything that I have lying around generally
It means I don't have to by a new box to run it.
And I don't use anything to oppose Microsoft, I do use it becuase I prefer it, I can configure it the way I want, and I know that it lets me interface cleanly with the *NIX machines I use, ranging from OpenBSD firewall to UNICOS supercomputers.
Besides, if you'd actually read about it, you'd know that it uses Objective C, and fits in at the level of GNOME and KDE. It's not a kernel.
You have this backwards. I would rather have the Linux userland choices and the highly regarded FreeBSD kernel with top notch VM and TCP/IP stack. Especially after the Linux kernel 2.4.10 VM changes-- what a sorry excuse for a kernel.
I was downloading the install file, then it aborted on me, I went back to the site to begin downloading again and received a file not found! I think the site was either slashdotted or the file was removed for other reasons.
The electric yellow has got me by the brain banana
NeXTstep is state-of-the-art GUI design, circa. 1985-1990. At the time, it was easily 10 years ahead of anything else available.
:-)
:-) years ago.
But here we are 17 years later, and everyone has finally had a chance to catch up. (Except for Apple, who is now a good 5 years ahead of everyone else by basing their system on NeXTstep
The beauty of NeXTstep was the underlying Objective-C APIs and the dev tools. Amazing, simply amazing. The "build a text editor in under 1 minute without even compiling" example was always a winner.
Using GNUstep w/ WindowMaker is pretty close to the look of NeXTstep, but just seems to be lacking in the "feel" department (that from running GNUstep on my PC, right next to NeXTstep on my 68040 NeXTstation.)
Of course, that was over a year ago, so things might have changed a lot with GNUstep/WIndowMaker since then.
If you can get yourself a NeXT machine cheap, go for it. Heck, you might even be able to find an old Intel of HP machine with NeXTstep on it. But don't expect it to be a dailt use machine. I recently picked up a Mac Classic at a garage sale for the same reason: it's fun to remember what computers were like just a few (well, 12-15
"Tomorrow's forecast: a few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" - Stewie Griffin
If this is a Linux based system, will RMS flame us is we don't call it GNU/Linux/GNUStep?
Your password has expired, please login to change it.
This is why I use Slackware. :D
... I think I forgot my original point.
Granted, the distro tree is a lot more desktop-oriented than it deserves to be, seeing as it makes such a decent server distribution. Just pick and choose your packages carefully and you can make it anything you want. (Hey, it's even got a sane "package" implementation.) It takes well to having bits and pieces added onto it (although doing so does tend to break down your ability to manage it as a "distribution" per se).
At any rate, it's a simple, highly-customizable, all-purpose distribution, and it doesn't boot to a GUI after install. I use it for everything from a 486 with 8 megs of RAM to serve a mailing list, to a P3 with 512 megs as a pseudo-desktop network dealie. What more could you ask?
Look over there!
That said, Objective-C also has many fine attributes, and has never gained the popularity it deserves. Objective-C (gcc is Apple's Obj-C compiler also) is fully compiled and has great legacy compatibility with C, both desirable attributes when compared with Java. There are other tradeoffs between the languages, but Objective-C looks like a great Java alternative in certain circumstances. It also looks like a fun 'recreational language' for side projects.
I was considering one of the new iMacs anyhow, it's good to see that much code might port to an open source setting also! :-)
299,792,458 m/s...not just a good idea, its the law!
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
I like the Linux core, I enjoy and am comfortable with Linux as a kernel and the GNU/Linux combo as an OS. I want a better GUI on top of it that pleases my aesthetic sense, makes my life easier when I want it to be easier, doesn't feature at least two separate tracks of font management systems, lots of apps of massively disjoint look-and-feel and more widget toolkits than I care to think about. In other words, Simply GNUStep is a good move, but why don't we consider dropping the X windows? Furthermore, why don't we consider taking this a step further? Hell, OS X took the old NextStep stuff and improved it dramatically. Why don't we do the same, and not be constrained by OS X or attempt to parrot or copy it, and see if we can improve on it?
I agree that source level compatibility with OS X is a nice feature at this point in time since lots of Cocoa apps are being written (primarily because OS X is doing so well), and I like the *Step environments. But I'd like to see some innovation from the Open Source world too.
...to replace my Rhapsody DR1/i386 with :)
You just need to run gnustpe on darwin.
Posted with Mozilla-Mach-O
none Yet.
Think about it, build Gnustep over Darwin x86 and you have... A Frankenstein's monster version of Mac OS X for x86.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
This isn't a new OS, it's a linux distroid designed to focus on and exploit GNUStep.
GNUStep isn't an OS, it's the API from NeXTSTEP.
It's supposedly really really cool to program in because Objective-C is a lot more dynamic in its design than C++. (Much less type checking = less recompilation, more rapid development, it's a lot more like working in Smalltalk or a scripting language like Ruby. So I hear from people who use Objective-C in my company.)
HOWEVER it ain't ready, GNUStep is still laying the foundations. When they're all laid, it should be possible to add a lot of very good apps very fast. (NeXT is most famous for having been something you can develop apps very well and fast in.)
This is an interesting start.
GNUStep apps should be relatively easy to port to Cocoa and vice versa, that's the extent of the connection.
All this yammering about how pretty the window decorations are is silly. It ain't about looking like candy, it's about being pleasant to use and working well.
All this stuff about "being the next BeOS" is silly too. This isn't about users... not yet. It's about developers. It isn't a new OS, it's a new programming environment and a Linux distro optimized for it.
Did it make it into anybody's mirror? Their site off of sourceforge gives a 404 from the download page here.
what the hell is a 'junk character', anyway?
> That is, no user friendly desktop.
That's probably because GNUstep was never
designed or intended to be a desktop
environment.
GNUstep is an object-oriented application
development framework based on the original
OpenStep specification.
Comparing GNUstep with GNOME or KDE is like
comparing apples with tulips.
They are two completely different things.
Get a Mac.
:)
DisplayPDF, Aqua window manager, a Dock, Finder (with three view modes), Mail.app, and all for a low price of $1,799!
You even get a DVD-R and LCD screen out of it
GPL Deconstructed
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Put the taskbar at the *top* of the screen, where God intended it to be (at least that's what he told me over a beer last Wednesday).
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Anyone got a mirror site? It seems they've renamed the file, and they deny permission to download the new filename.
Had em on the Mac ever since the trasition to PowerPC. They can do it if they want to. But Apple wants you to run their apps on /their/ OS on /their/ hardware, not some alternative that brings them no revenue and is a nightmare to troubleshoot.
Lies about crimes
GNUstep is the open source version of the NEXTSTEP operating system... something, that while it may not have taken off and done as well as it should have, did contribute to computing today. Really a revolutionary idea. Back in a time when start buttons werent the fad, and nobody kept an icon of a desktop on their desktop, there were some great ideas, and freedom to express them. Sounds as though these guys want forward progress through unification and a few basic ideas... something that linux is not known for, it tends to make progress ameboidotically (ok, I made that word up, but you get the idea). Unfortunantly GNUstep hasnt recieved all the development backing from the community that kde/gnome have... which isnt such a bad thing... wm has stayed relatively simple and straight to the point (along with blackbox, which isnt based on GNUstep, but has a lot of the NS feel qualities to it)... something that I think is lost in kde and gnome.
...that people embrace this. If not this OS then the GNU Step API's if they ever get done 100%. It really is a great enviroment to program in and should be taught at all schools that are trying to teach OOP. Objective C is a great language and easier to learn then C++. I learned C++ first and then Objective C took about 3 hours.
But, if done right this would be lots of great new programs could easily be made for a Linux platform. GNU Step is the best way!
"Allez Cusine!"
Okay, maybe I'm confused over a few things here but I'm failing to see the point of this project?
WindowMaker has already been around for awhile and comes with it's own GNUstep like interface (or it is it's own GNUstep interface if you want to split hairs). If you don't like WindowMaker, then use AfterStep which again gives you the NeXT type interface (dock, clip, etc.). Either of these can be installed onto any Linux distro. You can install RedHat and get all the cool hardware detection with it and just don't install KDE/Gnome/etc. then grab the latest WindowMaker/AfterStep files and you have the same thing this is offering. So where's the magic?
Some of the features it's touting:
Uses the latest linux kernels and its latest features (ie: pure devfs, framebuffer)
Great, except according to some people here it has a lot of problems just installing. Besides, in a few weeks (or whenever the next update happens) the latest kernels will be out of date. You may as well just ftp your own kernels and compile them for your own system.
Graphical Boot-Up (no confusing Linux kernel messages)
Personally I like seeing the messages boot up so I know what sub-systems and modules are being loaded. If my sound module fails at least I know it.
Kept as simple as possible (no GNOME, no KDE, etc, just GNUstep)
Just install any linux distro without KDE/Gnome and slap on WindowMaker/AfterStep and you get the same thing right? So how is this a selling feature?
So we've already got this if you want it. Just go and grab whatever window manager suits your taste. If this is a move towards Mac OS X compatibility then great, but it seems like a very small step as there is a LOT of work ahead to even get something close to that.
Personally it just seems like a waste to bundle it with yet another copy of Linux. Separate it out (unless there's something special you're doing with the kernal) as a download so anyone can grab it in less than 10 minutes and let us decide which kernel to use for the base.
At the very least, toss up a few screenshots, make the download availalbe in a few formats and provide a little more information about what features this has or will have. What's the big picture and where is it leading?
liB
This looks like just another linux distribution. Not much new here. When are we going to have something along the lines of BEos or qnx that has a unix like posix enviornment but is really a diffrent animal.
Maybe I am looking for the leap in evolution rather than the more realistic baby steps that are what really seem to drive linux.
anyone understand what I'm asking?
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
It's not just coincidence that having the menu appear below the pointer is a lot faster, or that buttons along the edge are faster to access because you can't overshoot. This phenomena is an example of Fitts' Law (check out usability guru Bruce Tognazinni's article here ). One of the ways that GNUstep truly thrashes KDE usability-wise is that the GNUstep environment has really large buttons often with text right under the icon. By the nature of their size, these buttons can be accessed with a mouse far faster than the really tiny toolbar buttons you often see in other desktop environments. The labels for the buttons also give a clear indication as to what action the button performs; there is no need for the user to try and decipher what a particular icon stands for.
KDE, on the other hand, blindly copies microsoft's system of extremely tiny, unlabelled toolbar buttons that have extremely slow mouse access times and extremely small and cryptic icons whose true nature can only be discovered by either clicking on the toolbar button and possibly performing a destructive task or painstakingly holding the mouse over the toolbar button for several unbearable seconds to get the tooltip. "But Microsoft spends zillions of dollars on usability research" some say. And they spend tens of zillions on security research with results just as good. Microsoft is by far the most frequent inductee into the user interface hall of shame , and such windows UI shennanigans as multi-level tabs, window in window MDI, and Window XP/2000's dynamic menus have been frequently and harshly criticized in the UI design community. "But Windows users coming to Linux will be familiar with lots of really tiny, confusing, toolbar buttons with slow access times" they say. Windows users are certainly familiar with the Blue Screen of Death--maybe we should put stuff in the linux kernel to make it crash so they'll feel right at home. Yes, I know that there are options in KDE to have icons and text appear together. But this is not done by default. And probably 90% of users end up using the default which is installed with their application/OS. If you don't believe me, just ask Netscape. In the cold, hard reality of end-user desktop UI design, not doing something by default is really the same thing as not doing it.
I challenge the KDE Usability project to, by default, give KDE have large, labelled toolbar buttons that are fast to access and easy to understand. They of course don't have to take this challenge; some people would prefer linux not to get on the desktop.
Heh. Wishful thinking...
You forgot:
GoATSTEPx: a wide-open public-domain environment supporting hot-plugging of peripherals soon to be cleaned up and released by Microsoft. (It's easy to tell where the first patch will be applied!)
graspee
Right now, there doesn't seem to be any way of getting a complete installation of GNUstep through the Debian package system (you get some libraries, but that's all as far as I can tell). I wouldn't mind giving GNUstep a try, but I'm not going to throw out my whole Linux installation. I suspect many others are in the same boat, and a complete set of easy-to-set-up GNUstep packages for Debian would probably reach more people at this point than a separate distribution.
That is an advantage to a commercial unix or a BSD over linux; you get a non-bloated working system, then you add stuff you like. It's just a cleaner way to work.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I've got to run to work (I'm late!), but if one of you could please put a post on the slashdot article explaining the problem I would be very
/., your project has
l
thankful!
It seems I broke a rule at sourceforge which limits file sizes to 100MB
If someone could offer a mirror site I would be very thankful for that as well!
Thanks! Chad
Here's what sourceforge had to say
--------------
Greetings,
My name is ********; I am the Quality of Service Manager for
SourceForge.net. This message is directed to you since you are
designated as a project administrator for the Simply GNUstep project on
SourceForge.net.
First, we would like to take a moment to congratulate you on your recent
press exposure on Slashdot.org -- we love to see Open Source projects
succeed, and press exposure of this nature is always of great benefit.
Since the announcement of your project efforts on
received roughly 2241 downloads of the ISO image provided through your
download page at: http://simplygnustep.sourceforge.net/Download.htm
It has come to our attention that you are making use of SourceForge.net
project web services as a mechanism to release file materials in excess
of 100MB in size. Each project hosted on SourceForge.net is provided
with project web services as to ensure that they may adequately provide
an online description and information regarding their project.
... etc
Sourceforge has a policy of not allowing DLs of files over 100MB, I broke that limit with my 110MB ISO image, so they took read access form the file to everybody but me.
If someone would like to offer a mirror I would appreciate it very much!
Chad Hardin
I wrote to the developer about the lack of downloadability. He asked me to post his reply since he was headed out the door:
/., your project has
l
"I've got to run to work (I'm late!), but if one of you could please put a post on the slashdot article explaining the problem I would be very thankful!
It seems I broke a rule at sourceforge which limits file sizes to 100MB
If someone could offer a mirror site I would be very thankful for that as well!
Thanks! Chad
Here's what sourceforge had to say
--------------
Greetings,
My name is ********; I am the Quality of Service Manager for
SourceForge.net. This message is directed to you since you are
designated as a project administrator for the Simply GNUstep project on
SourceForge.net.
First, we would like to take a moment to congratulate you on your recent
press exposure on Slashdot.org -- we love to see Open Source projects
succeed, and press exposure of this nature is always of great benefit.
Since the announcement of your project efforts on
received roughly 2241 downloads of the ISO image provided through your
download page at: http://simplygnustep.sourceforge.net/Download.htm
It has come to our attention that you are making use of SourceForge.net
project web services as a mechanism to release file materials in excess
of 100MB in size. Each project hosted on SourceForge.net is provided
with project web services as to ensure that they may adequately provide
an online description and information regarding their project.
... etc"
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If you look at the "-$400 million" quote, it looks like he feels the old Apple sold itself out in the NeXT merger.
Kinda like how McDonnel Douglas was able to get Boeing to pay them billions to take over their company in exchange for keeping their name.
Also similar to what HP seems to want to do with Compaq, luckily for them, HP seems to be wising up to this.
However, in Apple's case I think the reverse swap was worthwhile. OSX is the first Apple technology that I have actively wanted to own. It is just a shame that it didn't come out as Rhapsody's vision, I would have bought it for my PC years ago and Windows would far less of a stranglehold on the market.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
I know it's offtopic....
Why does not having a TV make you a better person?
I don't have a TV either. I don't believe that it makes me a better person. However, when I mention that I don't have a TV, a lot of people immediately get very defensive. Bear in mind that I don't go around advertising this fact. It's more like,
"Did you see Friends last night?"
"No, missed it."
"What, how could you miss Friends?!!"
"I don't own a TV."
For whatever reason, people tend to get really defensive, as if they feel attacked. The reaction is almost exactly like when I've told pot smokers that I don't smoke pot. It's not an uncommon response for them to ask, "What? Do you think that makes you better than me?" even though I made no indication that it was a moral issue. This is the response of someone who feels guilty for their behavior, right or wrong as it may be to feel that way. In the context of such an exchange, I might actually reply, in exasperation, that not owning a TV or not smoking pot or whatever it may be really does make me a better person. I think that's where the sig comes from.
Besides, TV really does suck. Can you make any argument in favor of owning a TV? Well, it looks as though you did.
Still, it does me good to be in on the pop culture of our times. Without a TV I wouldn't be as much a part of US society.
Does this really sound that convincing to you? It's just a pretty way of saying that TV is a cultural normalizer. Have you noticed that in any given time of day, all the major networks have rather similar shows? That's because TV programming is predicated on uniformity of its audience.
If you watch a person's behavior when they shoot up smack, it's the same as when they watch TV. The eyes gloss over, the body slumps, the brain goes into an alpha state, etc. Look at how a person watches TV. What's channel surfing? It's looking for something to lull the viewer into a trance. If people really watched for content they would stick to certain shows, or just rent DVDs. That's far from the norm. The norm is to get off work and look through the channels for something to dullen the senses, just like a closet drunk looking in various hiding places around the house for a bottle stashed away. This may seem like an extreme comparison. Bear in mind that liver damage will cut a person's life by ten years perhaps. How many years do people surrender to TV, thirty minutes at a time?
Do I really think I'm better than you for not owning a TV? No. But I do feel like I'm enjoying a freedom of mind that a lot of people choose to give up in order to pass the time. Perhaps they view the choice of what to do with their free time as a burden. Maybe they are really concerned with what will happen on Survivor. I just happen not to feel that way. But if someone should get defensive with me when I tell them so, I'd probably give it right back to them.
The state is the great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everybody else. ~F. Bastiat
Mmmmmmmm. Steak Jello!
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
" The alpha version of the x86-based OS is available for download and boots off the 110 MB bootable CD."
This is yet another reason why more people should buy and use 8 cm CD-Rs. Sure, currently they're more expensive than the normal sized ones, but think of the money you'd be losing anyway in unused megs.
Well, that, and the way a fast 8 cm CD-RW would nudge Zip drives (and maybe even floppies) out of the market...
# cat > /etc/rc.conf
That way, I know I won't be hosed by any text editor.
-------------------
I've got to run to work (I'm late!), but if one of you could please put a post on the slashdot article explaining the problem I would be very thankful!
It seems I broke a rule at sourceforge which limits file sizes to 100MB
If someone could offer a mirror site I would be very thankful for that as well!
Thanks! Chad
Here's what sourceforge had to say
--------------
Greetings,
My name is ********; I am the Quality of Service Manager for SourceForge.net. This message is directed to you since you are designated as a project administrator for the Simply GNUstep project on SourceForge.net.
First, we would like to take a moment to congratulate you on your recent press exposure on Slashdot.org -- we love to see Open Source projects succeed, and press exposure of this nature is always of great benefit. Since the announcement of your project efforts on /., your project has
received roughly 2241 downloads of the ISO image provided through your
download page at: http://simplygnustep.sourceforge.net/Download.html
It has come to our attention that you are making use of SourceForge.net project web services as a mechanism to release file materials in excess of 100MB in size. Each project hosted on SourceForge.net is provided with project web services as to ensure that they may adequately provide an online description and information regarding their project.
How many companies retain their CEO, President, CTO, have their development teams made primary and and their product become the central one at a company after being bought out? Next bought Apple, for negative $400 million - not a typo.
I think it was a good thing: Copeland was a disaster, Gershwin a pipe dream, Apple was unable to do what needed to be done, unable to reign in their development teams nor drop their committment to 100% backwards compatibilty, and frankly the move seems to have been good for BOTH OS's. But look whose running the show - it's the Next folks.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
With a name like "Simply GNUstep," you would think it has something to do with those Palm ads.
I just have some complaints about Linux and where
it's going. Older versions of Redhat, like 4.x and
5.x were pretty nice. I like slackware, but I need
a solution that works on more hardware than x86.
I generally don't tend to be raving about OS's
anymore. When I was younger, I was an OS/2 user,
and did that then, but now I'm generally happy
with a simple, generic Unix with good hardware
support and little hassle compiling stuff myself.
Opensource is a plus. Linux used to be like that,
but it seems that the distributions I liked in
the past are becoming less to my liking as time
goes on. Will BSD ever go that way? I hope not --
if it does I'll move on if possible. I do, as
noted, like the way the linux kernel is configured. If someone had a crossplatform
Linux distro with a very minimal, nonintrusive
package system, very vanilla but up-to-date
pieces, I'd consider moving to it instead. If
you know of such a distro, tell me...
I'm not, at least in this message, talking about
windows. I just have some severe issues with
redhat's technical decisions and the way other
distributions reproduce said decisions.
Is this really a troll in your eyes?
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
There were valid reasons for Rhapsody getting canned.
First off it offered almost no migration path. Sure the MacOS virtual environment was listed but this was considered a hollow promise unikely to succeed. Furthermore it was off on it's own - no interaction with the rest of the system, an abandoned stepchild.
Second there was no way to port old code to the new platform. Everything would have to be rewritten, from scratch, using the Next frameworks. While Next's stuff was widely admired companies had millions of dollars invested in their existing code bases plus almost no one familier with the Next material.
So, faced with rewriting everything for a new OS on a platform that at the time had been steadily declining (this was pre-iMac) or having their exisiting code relegated to some lame-ass virtulaiziation environment while at the same time WinNT was requiring a ramp up and going great guns... Sorry no way Apple.
Even the promise of cross-platform support couldn't change that. Everyone is and was well familier with the "It ain't done 'till 123 won't run" strategies of MS and suspected that even if a decent Rhapsody layer were shipped for Wintel it wouldn't be long before some Windows revision broke it, leaving Apple & MS in an arms war Apple couldn't win.
Today Apple is suffering with the wins and losses of it's revised strategy with the Carbon campatibility layer. It's enabled lots of products to move over quickly but they're not really native and so aren't able to take full advantage of the new OS nor show it off to it's full potential. I expect next year once Apple's got Carbon tweaked to the point it's widely usable they'll then start pushing devopers to begin making the transition to Cocoa, likely by pushing lots of the services and features Cocoa has and which won't be made accessable to Carbon. Apple has already made more availiable to Carbon then they had planned but I expect we won't see much more - Apple wants that pressure.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Arent all programs 'partialy source compatible' with an OS that has that particular compiller this could be great in terms of colaberation and future development but it also could be nothing mroe than empty hype.
--aiee
I'll tend to agree with you -- while there are so many nice things with bells and whistles included in many Linux distros (bash with fancy prompts, vim or elvis to replace vi, etc.), in some cases it gets in a way -- quite a few times I've stumbled upon a script that starts with #! /bin/sh fail when used with the *real* sh. Same goes with vi -- it's gotta be lean and mean (bet less mean than ed/ex or /bin/cat :)
--AP
The RAR format is regularly used in multimedia newsgroups to archive files into many small pieces that can later be recombined. Using RAR to compress something costs something, but there is a free UNRAR utility (with source code) that can be used to do the decompression that works on any platform. Plus the download would be easier for guys like me with dial-up!
I was replying to an offtopic post which got modded down to -1. The guy asked if anyone knew of recent cards that did VESA 2.0, and I was answering ;)
My server
...and digging into SourceForge this way shows no files either. Anyone have a link that works?
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Close... but not quite.
NeXTSTEP: Not the hardware, but the original OS made by NeXT. Versions 0.3 - 3.3.
The NeXT cube, NeXT Turbo Cube, NeXT Station, NeXT Color Station, NeXT Turbo Station, and NeXT Color Turbo Station are the names of the computers NeXT sold.
OpenStep: The OpenStep API was a bit different than the original NeXTSTEP API. The "open" part of the moniker denotes that it was an open API spec, and OpenStep followed this spec. This allows for other implementations to happen, like GNUstep or OpenStep for Solaris. Versions 4.0 - 4.2.
Yes, I did say OpenStep for Solaris. There was also an OpenStep Enterprise for Windows. OpenStep for Solaris allowed you to run an OpenStep environment and related apps on top of X11, rather like GNUstep does. It ran it's own OpenStep window manager, but still allowed vanilla X apps.
OSE for Win32 was the OpenStep API for Windows, allowing one to develop and run OpenStep apps on Windows. While it didn't change the shell/wm like in OS/Solaris, you could run OpenStep apps remotely, including the Dock and WorkSpace.app- which was pretty cool to see. The widgets were given a bit more of a Windows look.
Rhapsody: Wasn't dropped entirely, as you say. The original Rhapsody vision was dropped, but Rhapsody was released as Mac OS X Server 1.x. Mac OS X Server 2.0 is based on Mac OS X 10.0, however.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I'm still somewhat new to using X Windows and had settled with Gnome/sawfish because I thought it was pretty good... until yesterday. I installed Windowmaker and am very impressed.
One thing I'd like though is something similar to the BeOS Deskbar. Under Windowmaker when an app is opened I get an icon in the lower left which is fine except that I cannot choose between the different windows which are part of the app. Any suggestions?
Objective-C++ doesn't allow you to use C++ syntax to program in Obj-C, nor does it allow you to use the Objective-C runtime and syntax to instantiate and send messages to C++ objects, nor does it allow you to use C++ to instantiate and send messages to Objective-C classes and objects.
What it does allow you to do is mix Objective-C and C++ in the same source file, using C++ syntax to deal with C++ classes and objects, and the Obj-C runtime/syntax to deal with Obj-C classes and objects. They're still quite seperated. However, I don't imagine it would be hard to have an automated conversion process going. The only real blocking point on that one is the static and opaque nature of C++, where Objective-C is dynamic and reflective enough to allow such tricks.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
However, a counterpoint to this would be the ease of accessibility of the Window Maker root menu. For example, if one was using a fully maximised Mozilla window, and wanted to access something quickly on the root menu, he/she would have to minimise or move the window (and any additional windows below it) in order to reach the desktop, in order to access the root menu.
Neither solution is inherently better than the other. A solution to both is to have a special key dedicated to accessing the menu (Windows and Window Maker both have one).
So, in other words, I don't see what all of this flaming is about.
-
And the Angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots! The cries of the carrots!"
I mean, you can't just get /.ed and not be available ...
The think about pretty GUIs is they are often obtrusive. If you screw up (Luna) that's REALLY annoying and bad. Also, where you get into trouble is hitting somewhere in the middle, e.g. KDE and GNOME are goin' for the pretty GUI, and fall just short. So when KDE and GNOME get there, then we'll have two nice GUIs! For now, I use a combo of WindowMaker and KDE. It's all good!
There is a keyboard shortcut. F12. It's not that hard.
WindowMaker just makes a Pentium seem like a PII, that's all. Yeah, that's what I meant.
The state is the great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everybody else. ~F. Bastiat
Excellent point! I just stumbled over this today. Writing a #!/bin/sh script today on my RH 7.2 workstation with vim, watching my script in all it's color-coded glory. Ran perfectly on my box. Moved it to the Solaris 2.7 server. Ouch. It bombed big-time. Easy fix, tho... Just ran it with #!/bin/ksh instead :p ... Not exactly what I was expecting, but it worked withour any further mod...
.sig goes here.
Blah, blah, blah... --
Perhaps you should read a little more carefully. And yes, I'm well aware, thank you.
-
And the Angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots! The cries of the carrots!"
I went to the site and they mention the 'Gorm Interface Builder' and the 'Project Center'. Are these two apps the equivelent of 'Project Builder' and 'Interface Builder' on OS X??
What would be really cool is to have the OpenStep API's and the Project Builder for creating apps in ObjC.
>>
I am the director, and this is my movie
cool I think I will enjoy reading this article. Perhaps, though, I will refrain from commenting until I read it.
I like MacOS X, but I figure Apple's going to be out of business within 5 years, and I need an exit strategy.
;-)
Well, that's what I thought about NeXT round about 1997, but then they merged with a company that had a whole lot of cash in the bank and was trading for less than the value of their real estate
Apple's got a pretty impressive track record for surviving after events that were supposed to spell Apple's doom. I remember reading a whole lot of "well, that about wraps it up for Apple" messages when IBM entered the PC business.
I just started a job at Apple on 1/2/2002, and even though many people consider me quite the risk-taker when it comes to which companies I work with, I hardly think I'm sticking my neck out this time w/r/t the company's long-term prospects.
This company's got billions in the bank, it has the most loyal customer base I could possibly imagine, it sets the standard for quality of UI, and just rolled out yet another round of killer products this week at MacWorld.
Mind you, when someone showed me something I liked better than the Mac, I switched. (Mac to NeXT in 1989.) When someone shows me something better than the Mac, I'll switch again, but I sure don't see it on the horizon.
-jcr (Working at Apple now, adjust salt as you see fit.)
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
It seems I broke a rule at sourceforge which limits file sizes to 100MB. Therefore, they stopped access. This is not anything againt sourceforge. If I would have uploaded the cd-rom image correctly (to the right server)y, they would have been able to distribute the load of the thousands of downloads. I never anticipated so many people would try to download it! Sorry about that, check the site again soon, I'll have it set up correctly then. I'd like to emphasize that this is of no fault of sourceforge, it's my fault for uploading the image to the webserver instead of properly uploading it so that it is downloaded by their cluster of download servers. Thanks, Chad
that's because God doesn't get carpal tunnel sydrome from pushing the mouse around. Pulling (down) is easier on the arm, and its easier to aim.