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Microsoft Promotions Turn Up in USPS Offices
Several readers, like this Anonymous Coward, have written with links to a letter from Cliff Crouch on macintouch.com. "I stumbled across this letter submitted to a web site I frequent. Apparently Microsoft has promotional displays with free WindowsXP promotional software in U.S. Post Offices."
Well, they probably put it in the post office to capture back the customers they lost when their email went down from receiving too many files "to have your advice." They want to get a chance to recapture their customers when they head off to the post office to send their mail that way instead.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
For better or worse, the US government is large. In fact, it is HUGE. It would be impossible for every decision to be internally consistent in any organziation this size. This is why you always see those exposes on ABC and the like saying Branch A of govt does this and that while Branch B seems to be doing someething flying in the face of it. Its not necessarily that the govt. are hypocrites, all it is is a aggregate of people like you and I. So in this case, its not really the worst thing in the world. And what happend to "innocent until proven guilty"?
It's not the fact that they are giving away Demos, it's the place that the demos are being placed. A tie-in with a US Government agency is new.
With my luck with moderators I will prob end up with -500 notfunnygoburninhell for this, but what the hell, I think it is a great mental picture
Seriously, who cares? I bet if RHAT paid USPS enough, they'd put their CDs out too.
sulli
RTFJ.
You're simply naive. Last time I checked advertising was legal, even for Microsoft.
- adam
Perhaps I'm missunderstanding, but M$ is giving Xp away for free?
Or are they giving software that runs on XP away for free?
Which one?
Heh, I wished they'd mail me a new Debian CD... I don't free like burning one... =)
Oh well, I can suffer 10 Minutes of torturous burning for a lifetime of joy. =)
Location: Mt. Xinu
usps.gov has a marketing deal with Microsoft apparently. Their Web-Based Solutions page, accessable from the main usps.gov page, is "Powered by Microsoft bCentral", and promotes subscriptions to Microsoft services.
Maybe we need to add "separation of corporation and state" to our "separation of church and state" in the constitution?
Here in Australia, anyone can stick things in post offices if they pay for it. There are all sorts of brochures and things, plus most of the larger ISPs and phone companies have free samplers and recharge kits there.
I assume Microsoft's deal isn't an exclusive arrangement?
I hate M$ same as everybody else but who cares? They paid some dough and the post office put up a display. Anybody could do it if they had the money.
The Post Office isn't some holy place, it's barely connected with the government, and hasn't received any tax dollars since Nixon. It's basically a private organization.
When you see Windows product placement in, say, a courtroom, that's when I'd start to worry....
...And what's most disturbing is that this is the same government which has an anti-trust suit against Microsoft. So much for the left hand knowing what the right hand is doing.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Well, okay maybe it's not hell yet, but I'll know I'm in hell when the Johova's Witnesses start going door to door and handing out MS CD-ROM's.
Did I read that correctly? Who would actually demo an OS?... they are not exactly the easiest thing to uninstall (maybe that is the rub after the "demo period" ends... for only $99 you can restore your PC to working condition).
It still is a very strange marketing ploy when you consider WHY people upgrade OSes... it is generally not an impulse move. Half the outboard hardware on my DAW is not yet supported by XP.
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
The post office is crawling with viruses these days.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
so why not produce a nice pile of SuSE cd's and have the "dump" say , not a demo the full real operating system... Linux! for FREE!" I'd suggest redhat but that takes 2 cd's now, and slackware is too technical.
that'll take a helluva lot of steam out of microsoft's campain.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Why would the Post Office let a competitor advertise in their building? I'm sure whoever uses XP will use email, which means less snail mail for the Post Office to deliver.
... is the government trying to decrease the public's need for snail mail so they can lay off postal workers, or are they smart enough to know that XP is such a poor, insecure excuse for an OS that they know it'll crash and people will go back to snail mail and increase their business?
So
The CDs are free. Take them all.
Once you have a few hundred of them, you can gather them together with the myriad AOL CDs in your drawer and enjoy a nice day of CD Craft Fun as suggested here, here and here.
Good luck.
-Rothfuss
I really don't care if MS advertises in post offices. What piques my curiosity, though, is what were / are government agencies' policies on advertising?
:)? Could an advertsising policy cause bias in a government agency like campaign contributions cause in politics?
I know that the MA Registry now allows advertising at their sites (somthing for people to look at during the long waits). It wasn't that way too long ago. . .
I have never seen an advertisment in a post office that did not either promote USPS's services or was somthing about taxes.
Was this by design, or was it that no one thought of advertising in a post office before
It's not radical or life-changing, but it does have a large curiosity factor that I could not find much info on. . .
I saw this display, and now after reading this post I must ask, "What does it matter?" It's not as if MS is advertising in your local city hall or courthouse. It's the post office... A branch of the government that isn't responsible for anything remotely important (yes, I realize mail delivery is important, but it's not going to make or break my life/freedom either way).
Not only that, but it's a branch of the government that's entirely self-sufficient. Not one red cent comes from taxpayers. So again I ask, what does it matter?
Man, the "devious" flag just raised on this one. Maybe I can grab all the CD's, bring them home and burn new ones, chock full'of nice little additions...viruses, bugs, flaws; then put them back, shrinkwrapped and ready to go. "Hello, Microsoft? I just installed this XP promo and every time I boot up it invokes the name of Satan". Or, "sweet jesus, what's with all the penguins on my screen!?". Hey, maybe something as simple as a new office assistant that offers advice every 15 seconds.
And for the smartasses...yes, new bugs over the ones already on there. I guess this would work with those AOL promo's too...but since no one would ever install those (as they already have 500) it wouldn't be as fulfilling.
Advertising with the post office isn't new. Ever change your address? This is hardly noteworthy.
The postal worker in the article says that FedEx and UPS are doing the same thing. Why should the USPS not take a check to provide ad space?
It'll help keep stamps cheap.
sig is
Uhhh, thats the point MS demo's pretty much hook you into it. One day you cant log on to your W2K box, or start getting DB connection errors from SQL, because you installed a demo and forgot, (I did this in a dev enviroment) solution, put the purchased one on, or buy a serial in the case of XP ,or in the case of SQL server roll your clock back, actually early W2K server demo's too. I doubt XP is as stupid
:)
:)
They get it on and you have little choice as I belive you cannot easily unistall XP (may be wrong with all the SxS dll mapping it would be tough I think) Soooooooooo, with the new MS authenitication you cant just pick up a number off a SeRiALZ site, but Mr VISA and 199 will get you the pro version and they'll activate it over the phone
Hell if I was an evil megolitic corporation and a billionaire goober that ran it and had more money than god, I'd do it too , cant blame em for trying
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
The USPS is a business like any other. Sure, they have some governmental influence, both ways, but if someone wants to pay them to put up posters.... why not?
And besides.. asking clerks about it won't get you very far. I'm surprised that your post office wasn't so busy that the clerk actually had enough time to ask you if there was anything else you needed.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
They got those customers back as soon as the people realized getting "files for advice" in the mail is much less worse than getting powder.
The best one was a diskette (in the early days) that was distributed with a magnet order.
- - - - - - - - - - -
I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
Soon to come for US Postal Service:
- Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer special edition collectable stamps. Special $1.50 versions: their eyes follow you around the room.
- Windows 3.1 commemorative phone cards ("Relive the special magic of that release with every call you make!")
- Collector's Edition Outlook Virus Stamps. 24 special full-color postage stamps illustrating your favorite Outlook-spread viruses. Collect 'em all!
- Special "Blue Screen of Death" postcards. Nothing but white hex numbers on a field of blue, and you can't write on them. $5.00 for a set of 20.
I'm looking forward to the "Great Operating Systems of the 20th Century" stamp series sponsored by Microsoft.
There will be stamps celebrating such great operating systems as
Windows 3
Windows 3.1
Windows 3.11
Windows NT 3.5
Windows NT 3.51
Windows NT 4.0
Windows 95
Windows 98
and
Windows 2000
Then of course there will be a variety of service packs for the 1 cent stamps.
-Rothfuss
Just the disks I have on hand... I'll make 10 copies of Red Hat, 10 copies of Mandrake, 10 copies of Suse, trek on down to the post office tomorrow and stuff them in the Microsoft ad. I encourage everyone to do the same :)
Maybe scribble a sign overhead and tape it to the MS ad. "...Or use Linux!"
Granted I have been a redhat critic of late but I do have a serious question. what tools or help does redhat give to linux advocates to "get the word out". can I request 100 bulk CD's to give out? how about tri-fold pamphlets? MS is marketing like mad and the largest Linux purveyor sits quietly and only advertises in technical journals or the linux mag's.
what if my LUG wants to stand on corners and give out linux cd's? I agree that RH7.2 is the easiest that even a non-computer user can install and use it.
so what can I do to get it out there? and if redhat wont help what other distros will help by supplying bulk cd's? anyone?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
PR release:
Microsoft announced today the acquisition of the United Postal Service. "It's a great innovation, that we know our customers will enjoy. Instead of being hassled by paper communication, our MSN and Hotmail service will provide all means of communication for the people of the US in a safe and secure way." said Microsoft's co-founder Bill Gates.
While many questions have risen regarding the ethical and legal considerations, Microsoft was confident of the acceptance of their new program. With a surprise backer in the federal government, Microsofts program received considerable support from a Mr. DCS1000. Security considerations also came into play with the recent anthrax scares.
The program launches tomorrow, with the initial transfer of all US citizens to the new MS PassportPlus for national identification (Win95/NT/98/2000/XP compatible). A new email activation program will also initiate, offering enhanced security against terrorist hackers sendign unauthorized digital signals.
From the Site
United States Postal Service
The Post Office Department was transformed into the United States Postal Service, an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States. The mission of the Postal Service remained the same, as stated in Title 39 of the U.S. Code: "The Postal Service shall have as its basic function the obligation to provide postal services to bind the Nation together through the personal, educational, literary, and business correspondence of the people. It shall provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and shall render postal services to all communities."
Because, sometimes they just have to touch the stove.
-YY1
Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, Wile E. Coyote. They're all there. They've done that for years.
I've seen American Express application forms at the Post Office for as long as I can remember.
I really don't see much wrong with this.
You never saw that Target commercial where they had a room with the walls and ceiling painted red and completely covered with CDs?
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
Can that happen?
I know this sounds a bit naïve, but there are some places were I feel
I shouldn't have to see ads. My taxes (as much of a pittance that they are)
pay for post offices among other things. Why should the post office then need
get funding from elsewhere? I would be willing to pay 35 cents for a stamp if
it meant not having to see ads in the post office, just as I would pay more
taxes to make sure there aren't
any ads in schools
Sleep is for the weak!
Regardless of your opinions of Microsoft, it's advertising. AOL has done the same for years, leaving their CDs or floppy disks everywhere imaginable.
So MS puts posters in CDs into a USPS office? Big deal. It's not like you can argue that the USPS is a government office and the government is promoting it, the USPS is a government-contracted company, just look it up in your history book.
If the USPS agrees to hang the signs, then they're there. Personally, either someone will or won't upgrade, and a nifty poster in a post office won't influence too many people, and certainly not the type who would use Linux.
Call me a troll for not flaming Microsoft, but it's just marketing, not monopolistic business tactics. And hell, maybe the cost of postage will go down with the money that MS gives the USPS for putting the posters.
Gawyn
Freedom of Speech?
"You pay for a stamp to send mail"
And the post office loses money on it.
"You pay for a box to receive mail"
Or receive all your mail at a friends house.
"You subsidize spammy junk mail catalogs because companies get favorable bulk mail rates"
Companies get favorable bulk rates because bulk prebarcoded mail is easier to process. I don't think you "subsidize" it.
"And now you have to veiw adds while you stand in line or check your box"
OK, I hate ads too. But you're already bitching about your stamp costs. How do you want them to make enough money to continue their operations? I barely ever go into a post office--if it bothers you that much, you could probably avoid it too.
Usually when you see posters on post offices, they feature people who steal valuable resources from citizens or cause them irreperable harm. Usually these people are regarded as being extremely dangerous and should be avoided at all costs
I'd say that adequately pegs XP.
Why do you suppose the post office is advertising for Microsoft? Is it a conspiracy designed to kill Linux?
No, the truth is, Microsoft can advertise Windows XP because they have a large advertising budget. Linux doesn't get advertised nearly as much because Red Hat, Debian, Suse, Slackware, etc. are all operating on a very thin profit margin and can't afford the kind of advertising that Microsoft can.
Now, the question as to whether the US Postal System should endorse or provide a venue for the promotion of Windows XP is another issue altogether. But it is important to realize that without Microsoft's advertising budget, this wouldn't ever have happened.
"This trial is brought to you by windows xp(tm)...eXPerience the difference!"
there's more than one way to do me.
These XP demo's will "upgrade" your current 9x/2k install. This works great untill your free demo is up, and then you get the forced online authentication, exactly the same as if you didn't register a purchased version. Of course, since you cannot do anything with your computer aside from get the must register message you are officially SOL. Format and re-install, without any chance to back up your stuff. At least that is the story with my roomates PC.
Yep, now they'll be able to do the "Miracle on 34th Street" defense in court.
(after having hundreds of demo CDs poured onto Judge Kotar-Kelly's desk)
"As you can see, your honor, the US Postal Service, a gen-yoo-wine branch of the US Government, recognizes Microsoft's right to "innovate".
Case dismissed!
You are 100% correct. My local post office has advertisements posted not just on a bulletin board, but in the office itself. And these aren't all small local companies. I've seen displays for John Hancock Insurance, Bank of Boston (when it used to be BOB), and even _gasp_ Sun Microsystems. (That one was a hiring blitz, they have a big facility nearby.) On top of that the Post office in Lowell sells phone cards from Sprint (or maybe they're AT&T), and even stationary, pens, pencils, binders, etc. The USPS doesen't generate revenue from stamps alone.
What annoys me about this story is that someone considers this news... Hey timothy, post something I don't know about. (If this were about any of the companies I just mentioned, do you think it would be considered important?)
I'm done with sigs. Sigs are lame.
Isn't there something in the Constitution about Separation of Church and State?
The post office does not run on tax dollars, it runs on what you pay for postage and services. It also probably makes a profit on Microsoft's advertising.
On the other hand my personal concern is, they're still the local office of the federal governement, technically, so how come they have ads up for a company and product that the federal government just successfully sued for being in violation of federal law?
like a bunch of startled dugongs, or are you going to burn a batch of Linux install CDs and swap them with the XP demo disks? Use one of those "we make it look as much like Windows as possible" distributions, and you might just get away with it, too.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
And yes, I realize I royally messed up the Judge's name.
Well for a second there I thought you wrote
Windows 3.1 commemorative phone cards ("Relieve the special magic with every call you make!")
and realized it would make sense over the stalls in the washrooms..but that I wouldn't want to be around when some other guy was "relieving" his *magic* in a public restroom..
The USPS does not get any money from the taxpayers. They have to earn everything themselves. Since 9/11, the USPS has lost Billions of dollars in lost revenue, anthrax hassles, etc. They have to make up the money somewhere! If Micro$oft came to them and offered them a large amount of money to put up such display cases, I'm all for it!
BTW: the USPS does a tremendous job for the amount they charge for the postage. Have you looked at first-class postage rates in Europe?
Errr, I think you missed the point. The point was that a convincted monopolist that has been making the government jump through tons of legal hoops for several years is now being advertised by a different branch of that government.
Not really interesting, and it doesn't say very much, but it IS sort of funny.
It's a joke, son. Operating Systems are viewed as religions in OS advocacy flame wars. Get it now?
Visions of an XP urinal puck danced through my head.... shudder...
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Speaking of this, back when AOL gave out their software on 1.44MB floppy disks, they had a form online where you could request a free kit.
I set up a script to request several hundred kits, and they actually sent them to me. A month or two later they put a little notice about "limit 5 kits per month".
It was too bad, I really liked getting free High Density floppies.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
No. This is a common myth held even by fairly well educated people. The "Seperation of Church and State" is simply a oft repeated concept that is currently being followed. A couple of centuries ago, it was "Manifest Destiny", and the US thought they had the moral imperitive to take all land west to the Pacific.
The closest thing that applies is the constitutional prohibition against establishing an official religion at the federal level, something that does not imply any form of seperation. Thus the "In God we Trust" on our bills, and a National Cathedral, chaplains in the US Armed services, etc. Religion is part of many people's lives, and a tolerance for religion is as important as a tolerance for those who do not choose religion.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Does an XP CD glow after being irradiated? Or does it just melt?
I'm melting! Melting!
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Where exactly did the poster you're replying to bitch about stamp costs?
As far as it goes, if I could get reliably delivered mail that wasn't shredded half the time, I'd be glad to pay additional postage. But since the USPS is effectively another government granted monopoly (or is it a goverment agency? Hm, wish they could make up their minds), there's no real competition for letter carrying to force them to be worth a damn.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
What if, during the period that the US and several states were suing the Tobacco companies, the big 5 had setup free giveaway kiosks inviting people to "Visit Flavor Country"?
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Wheter it be political (space exploration, women's causes, etc...), celebrational (Madonna stamps come to mind), or any number of other messages.... Stamps have always been an advertisement medium, whether you recognize it or not. Maybe that's the best part - you don't!
:-)
That's not quite true. Stamps have certainly not been used as a commercial advertisement medium (i.e. to sell a product, a real product). If there have been cases -- of which I've never heard -- then they are few and far between. You confuse commercial advertisement with awareness/recongition (women's causes, Madonna), national/patriotic endeavours (space exploration). The other messages fall in those categories, as well as artistic, historical, geographical, animal and fauna, symbols, and so on - but none of these have anything to do with a commercial product or service.
The Postal Service has never been "just" a business - otherwise it would have sunk long ago - it is a semi-private government service (it's the same here in Canada as in the U.S.). That's quite different, and if you don't understand this then you don't really understand what business is (not to mention the nature of capitalism).
As far the Microsoft ads goes, I don't know how it is in the states, but in Canada we don't have ads from major corporations, except in the rare cases when there are joint projects with the Postal Service. But plain ads, and from as big a company as Microsoft? No. I have to say, ads in a government service for a company (and not just any company, THE company) which the government is suing in Federal court? That does sound quite absurd, even for the U.S., famous for not doing things the same way as anyone else...
Reminder: find a new sig
The post office is the sole official physical presence of the U.S. federal government countrywide.
Where do you go to "register" for the Selective Service (the draft)? The post office.
Where do you go to get federal tax forms? The post office is required to supply them.
Sure, some municipalities may have an FBI or ATF branch office, or even a Secret Service office, but the USPS is the main federal presence in EVERY town. It is the face of the US Government for most.
One simple rule for its versus it's
I go to my bank and their's plenty of free AOL CD's. I don't see anyone complaining about that. At the post office they have a FREE promotional offer for yet another ISP. But hey, now that MS is doing it, it must be wrong, even illegal.
Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer special edition collectable stamps
And if they did issue such a stamp some people would have a problem getting them to stick as they would spit on the wrong side.
[separation of church and state is]
From the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Will I retire or break 10K?
Maybe we need to add "separation of corporation and state" to our "separation of church and state" in the constitution?
That would also prevent governments from breaking up monolopies, wouldn't it?
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
People do not complain about AOL free CD's because AOL not a monopoly.
:)
If I go into (insert any major shop) I can pick up a different free 'get online CD' (In the UK it's normally one of the following three, AOL, Yahoo or BT), then you have all the smaller ISP's, add on to that the commercial ISP's. Choose, you have it with ISP's, can you really say the same about the desktop?
As to 'free for home use', hell it virtual is, I know no one who paid for Windows, it comes preinstall on computers. As with Office, what you are suggesting is free upgrades... God bless capitalism...
mlk
But this really is not news... OMG MS are advertising in post offices!? What next, will they have adverts on TV? How will I escape!
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
I don't consider that post mail, I consider that 'shipping'.
Sounds like government to me, warts and all.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Birds of a feather flock together. Microsoft the Monopolist along with USPS the Monopolist.
Funny thing is, the US DOJ went after Microsoft, trying to break its monopoly grip. So why doesn't the DOJ go after the USPS for its monopoly grip on first class mail service? Because the USPS is a government-sanctioned and -backed and -enforced monopoly, which makes the whole thing against Microsoft fairly ironic.
Question: is it _being_ a monopoly that is bad for consumers? If so, go after the USPS, too.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If they are a private company, why are they subject to so much regulation? Any innovation, change of business practice, rate increase, etc.m c3.pdf
The USPS is a GSE - Government Sponsored Entity - like Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae, etc.
Yet still, legally, they are owned by the members of the USPS Union. (I don't think that just anyone else can buy stock in them...)
As for them being able to do what they like - I truly doubt it. Did you ever notice that it costs exactly the same price to send a letter across the street as it does to send a letter to someone in a remote rural location? If they could 'do what they want', I'm sure they would start charging more for the inconvenient deliveries...
They are not open to free-market competition, either - the have been granted a monopoly on first class mail. That's why FedEx can't suddenly start offering first-class mail - the USPS has been granted a monopoly on that. With that monopoly comes a huge amount of government regulation -
In fact, the National Association of Letter Carriers has regulations that specifically prohibit advertising in Post Office Lobbies - Take a look at section 338.413 of the following: http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/manuals/asm/as
I'm only writing this because there's a lot of confusion on the subject - If your post was a troll, it was pathetic. Put a little more effort into it next time.
Cheers,
Jim in tokyo
-- My Weblog.
Companies get favorable bulk rates because bulk prebarcoded mail is easier to process. I don't think you "subsidize" it.
*nod* Mass mailings actually subsidize residential mail. If it weren't for the 'big bad corporations' that people around here bitch about, postage would be somewhere around a dollar per letter. It's a similar situation to the airlines, where they make most of their profit off of business travelers, and loose money on standard consumers.
Personally I find their lack of design sense more annoying than a few advertisments.
_______
2B1ASK1
Birds of a feather flock together. Microsoft the Monopolist along with USPS the Monopolist.
Funny thing is, the US DOJ went after Microsoft, trying to break its monopoly grip. So why doesn't the DOJ go after the USPS for its monopoly grip on first class mail service? Because the USPS is a government-sanctioned and -backed and -enforced monopoly, which makes the whole thing against Microsoft fairly ironic.
No! The DOJ went after Microsoft for unfair use of its monopoly. It's fine to be a monopoly, but when you are, you must play be much stricter rules. For example, the USPS must deliver to everyone, and therefore can't charge an extra $50 to people living in out of the way areas. They also can't decide to charge more to businesses that also use FedEx at times.
As a government sanctioned monopoly, USPS is restricted more: they can't even raise prices without approval.
If Microsoft had carefully documented APIs, provided all firms with equal access to new product information, and not entered into special pricing deals (Win for $45 if you don't allow dual-OSes,) they probably would never have been attacked by the DOJ.
That's pretty good! I'd take out the 'hard-coded' reference to an arbitrary US Dollar amount, though. $100 million might sound about right for a really punishing fine today, but maybe $100 sounded reasonable for a fine back in the 19th century. These documents have staying power.
..unless, of course, you play games, develop software for windows, do video editing, have a consumer-grade webcam, scanner, etc., or are learning to use a computer and will have to know the OS for work. In which case, carry on..
Btw, nowadays Windows surpasses Linux in the desktop scene for three technical reasons:
1) video drivers with a standardized interface to the kernel. The X/Gtk/KDE thing is outdated; we need a more Windowsish approach where we drop files in, set up a few symlinks and it's using those drivers instead. We should not be forced to recompile our kernel or replace X!
2) a graphics SDK that's modern (OpenGL 2.0 and it's standardized pixel and vertex shader calls won't be out for another two or three quarters at least, according to the last meeting of the ARB, which means that without a doubt, DirectX will be the new standard for game development. This is fact. Live with it.)
3) a monolithic kernel.
Number 3's what's holding us back. I predict that once (if) the GNU hurd catches on, we'll start to see some open source developers moving in this direction. Maybe even the X people'll head that way. But until then.. Linux and BSD may be free, but they ain't the best. Sorry.
-
Success Sells.
So it may get worse; there may be Microsoft ads on USPS trucks next.For over 200 years, the United States Postal Service is the brand that has been built on trust and service.
Now we're selling our unique space. Think of us as your Multi-channel Communications Service. Marketers can get the visibility and reach through the Postal Ad Network.
Place your big message on our trucks, collection boxes and even in our postal facilities. Or small space ads on our stamp packages and banner ads on our website.
There's opposition to the USPS selling out like this.
Free promotions, how strange... and kinda desparate sounding...
.net product release, which I can be privileged to attend at the cost of $149 (plus 12.5% GST).
.NET to start with, this slipped the gear lever into reverse for me.
:)
Down here in NZ I received a postcard 'invitation' to the visual studio
Now I may have a distorted view of the universe, from working on a Microsoft development platform for too long, but shouldn't MS be offering incentives for developers to take up their new dev tools ? Maybe a free copy of VS.NET here & there ? So we can develop applications that require our clients to purchase MS licenses ?
No, they can give away massive $$$ to promote the OS of the future, but developers should PAY THEM to sit in a big room and hear about new products that we could buy off them. Altho I was not rushing to take up
oh, and my home desktop is KDE, so even a free copy of XP ain't getting near my hardware
LesF
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I agree, the USPS was selling Looney Tunes stamps a couple of years ago, and you can bet that AOL Time-Warner was pulling in some cash from that. There were also tie-ins for The Grinch movie all over our local Post Office, so I don't really see the significance of Microsoft not-so-boldly going where several corporations have gone before...
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein
No, you'd have to have a hole in your head to buy the retail version with Product Activation, when you can use the corporate version that lacks it, just get your employer to buy you a license. :)
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. --Robert A. Heinlein
What part of "United States Post Office" don't you understand? That the civil servants are employed by the Federal Government?
There are many makers of software in this great country and I'm sure none of them apprecite their tax dollars being used to support Microsoft. Don't you remember half of them testifying against M$ over the last few years? Well, gee there it is being promoted in a maner that some people will take as offial US sponsorship. It stinks. Were any of them offered the same oppertunity? Would it even be possible to fit all the material there? 30 Linux distros, 45 BSDs, AOL, Sun, HP, Compaq. There would not be room to stand.
Let's look at another thing "powering" the US post office by way of compairison. Jeeps. You see them all over, as they won bids on an open market. The Post Office Jeeps were stripped of all insignia and were only recognizable by their form. No cardboard cut outs recomending the purchase of Jeeps ever kept the sun from shining through a USPO window. No "test drives" were ever offered. Instead, Jeep was happy to be making the sale and the use was recomendation enough. The USPO had no intentions of recomending one automobile maker over another.
Go to Netcraft, you will see that most US government sites do NOT run M$ trash.
So my wife asks me, "why would they bother to promote M$, a company that needs no promotion." Might the settlement be nationalization? Oh shit.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
FYI: The Post Office is a private company (still somewhat affiliated with the U.S. government as a legal monopoly). They are under a board of governors that approves postal rates and various other things, but just like a corporation, they have to turn a profit.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
Just goes to show what ruthless monopolists they are.
Microsoft isn't so nice, either.
If MS did not want you to take them they would not have put them there.
War is necrophilia.
jazman_777 wrote:
;)
> Question: is it _being_ a monopoly that is bad for consumers?
Of course not. It is possible (at least in an ideal world) to have a company become a monopoly because it has the best quality products for a fair price and it always treats the customers fairly. Once this fictional company got to be a monopoly, they always try extra hard to make sure they are giving everybody a fair shake, constantly innovating, keeping those customers and their employies happy, etc. I don't see our fictional company getting into any antitrust trouble.
Microsoft's deal is that it got its monopoly by being a bully, it is keeping its monopoly by being a meanie, and it is using that monopoly to get itself more monopolies so it can have more people to bully and be mean to. To Microsoft, competition is not a fair game between friendly rivals. It is a brutal conquest, a war whose victims litter the landscape, and in which Microsoft cheats any chance it can get. Microsoft has raised prices, tossed quality, service, and real innovation in the dumpster, and in general, has made a bloody illegal nuisance of itself. It has committed crimes, and it looks like it will never pay for them. Microsoft thinks it is above the law. The problem is not an overbearing government, but one that chickened out at the end.
Microsoft can escape the law, but can it escape justice? Even if the dissenting states loose, there are still civil suits that can be brought based on the guilty verdict. Like say, the one Netscape just filed.
"The path of peace is yours to discover for eternity."
"Mosura", 1961
Dude, $730 billion are spent each year on military stuff around the world. How the hell could they need even more money?
Did you know that it is illegal to attempt to compete against the USPS with mail delivery
I am still waiting to see how that whole Trystero thing pans out...
W.A.S.T.E.
sic transit gloria mundi
1: The USPS isn't exactly the most profitable (simi) part of the government. Its become more and more seperated in the last few decades. By the time your average slashdot reader reaches his 25th birthday, it may not exist anymore, unless its reabsorbed into the government in entirety. Advertising is good thing in this case, i would assume. I don't think it would be long before we start seeing "banner ads" imprinted on envelopes. I'll refrain from commenting on my opinions of the apropriateness of the release of XP for this bit of slashdot satire.
2: I forsee soon a slashdot story..
"Bill Gates trying to kill journalists!"
A noticably weakened Bill Gates today sneezed at a 4 PM press conference announcing his philantrhopic extension to the public library system. Gates later was diagnosted with a potentially fatal and communicable illness "Influenza".
While covering the conference in his boxers, in his living room, Rob Malda noted that a member of the press who, at one time made a snide remark about Windows 3.1 being "Broken", was standing directly in front of and below Gates.
"I can only assume this was a pre-planned attack against the media. Gates will not stand for negative press, and, being the dark god Azmodeus himself, his vengence knows no limit of time".
When asked if this could be attributed to circumstance, or wild speculation on his part, he denied the accusation and began screaming "bitchslap dot pee ell! BITCHSLAP DOT PEE ELL!".
Hemos and Timothy could not be reached for comment.
Members of the mainstream media were not at a loss for words with this issue, mentioning:
"The things a mind can come up with, when deprived of intelligent human contact" -- Hugh Downs
"And you *LISTENED* to him?! He doesn't even have a mastery of the english language" -- Wolf Blitzer
"Jesus Christ.." -- Jesus Christ
"Taco is correct.. [What follows was a long-winded, dicursive diatribe blaming Bill Gates for Columbine. Omitted for the sake of brevity.]" -- Jon Katz
"I posted this story three minutes before he did" -- chrisd
Use the discs as runners in a Tesla Turbine.
:-)
They'd make pretty nifty ones for a small fluid pump...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Maybe it's just because I'm drunk, but I think the USPS are a bunch of filthy whores already anway... The damn change-of-address cards come with 25 advertisements, and the first thing they do with your new address is send it out to all the local spammers anyway... The USPS will do anything to keep from laying off excess employees, which is a bit noble if you think of it that way... Now stay away from my wife! No, I'm just kidding, you're my best friend... really, I mean that... just kidding about that... G'night people!
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
After working in the shipping business, I learned quickly how the USPS is the government equivalent of Microsoft. Try sending an overnight letter via UPS or Federal Express to a PO Box. It can't be done. Why? Simple: The USPS forces senders to use their mail services.
When you are a business with no competition, you have no reason to improve. IMO, anybody would be crazy to send something of crucial value or importance via any postal service and expect the same service as a private equivalent (UPS/FedEx/Airbourne).
They are a corporate monopoly with government protection. Not to mention, the only government agency I have seen that runs TV ads ("Fly Like An Eagle" crap).
Just a general rant.
Look at my "submit story" history we see the following:
2001-11-21 06:59:10 Javascript cookie vulerablity in Opera (articles,security) (rejected)
2001-11-25 22:09:39 Human embryo cloned (articles,news) (rejected)
2001-12-05 06:14:01 Earth based telescopes now have potential to match (articles,news) (rejected)
And this, this makes it to the front page of Slashdot? WTF!? No, it needs to be expanded:
What
The
Fuck!?
I mean seriously? This has what to do with what exactly? MS in the post office? God forbid that there should be some commercialism in the US Junkmail distribution system. I mean my god, what's next, the post office advertising on TV? Or maybe they'll raise prices on stamps or something.
I mean really. Slashdot is so inconsistent it, it... Well, I guess we all expect it now, but, god
Ok, now go ahead and mod me down.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'm pretty sure that the "Demo" is this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/ tours/demos/default.asp on a CD, i.e. a bunch of AVI files probably with an auto-execing viewer.
AOL is not a monopoly abusing it's marketshare power to destroy competitors. It's a simple-in-concept online community that got so rich it bought everything it liked. But at least it doesn't dictate terms to Dell about online services included on the desktop.
And, well, we just don't like Microsoft, I guess. They're nasty wankers, mate.
I guess the reason people are generally not outraged by this kind of marketing is that Microsoft Windows is not in a way considered to be a "product" in the traditional sense of the word by general public. If you would ask 100 Joe Random Users to draw a computer, 95 of them would draw a Windows desktop. In peoples minds,MS Windows has become THE operating system instead of A operating system and a integrated essential part of any computer.
"There is a terrorist behind every bush"
Microsoft is a convicted monopolist that has shown no remorse for its actions, and scarcely acknowledges that it has done any wrong. Ideally, the government would not be helping to pormote this malignancy.
It has been repeated many times throughout this discussion, first that the Post Office is part of the US government, only to have that assertion contradicted to the effect that the Postal Service is actually an independant corporation established and run by the government -- posters have also pointed out that the Federal Government is the sole shareholder, appoints the directors, and as needed bails the service out to the tune of a billion dollars.
All this is missing the point: the government shouldn't be helping spread the monopoly even if the post office is technically independent. The service still answers to Congress, and does arguably more so than most other businesses. This sort of issue is well within the domain of public policy -- even if no policies currently exist that are relevant to this situation.
In a broader sense, corporations in general also answer to Congress (even in cases like Enron where they'd rather not!), and by extension we regulate all of them in numerous ways as well. In comparison to wholly indepenent and totally private corporations it should be easy to shape a public policy in regards to a pseudo-governmental organization like the post office -- even if it means appointing a board of directors who agree that convicted monopolists shouldn't have the privilege of advertising in Postal Service buildings.
This is also why this is a relevant Slashdot story. It involves what amounts to a public policy decision (or lack thereof) that affects technology that the Slashdot community cares about: Microsoft, monopolies, the blurred line between the public and private sector, and public policy regarding these topics.
USPS had a great idea. People are always complaing about their services. So now when they enter in on of those postoffices they will have someone else to blame.
.-))
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------
I agree, the USPS was selling Looney Tunes stamps
The post office loves making specialty stamps because it's pure profit every time someone buys them as a collectible and never uses them.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Whether or not it's wise for them to do this with MS is another issue, but it is most certainly within their jurisdiction to do so.
A couple of centuries ago, it was "Manifest Destiny", and the US thought they had the moral imperitive to take all land west to the Pacific.
:)
Then a hundred years later "to the pacific" became "half way across the pacific"
Could that picture be more of a pitch for a cheesy cop show? "U.S. Postal Inspection Service", starring Chuck Studley as Inspector Bulge Gently, with Mary Clogg as Special Inspector Katy Aryan and Jane Smith as tenuously Hispanic Undercover Investigator Jennifer Aquilera. Plus other ethnic minority people! In the background! Doing the filing, or something!
Episode #1: This Time It's Federal...
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Show me. There's a copy here for your reading pleasure.
has been upheld by the US Supreme Court, as well as lower Courts, in numerous cases.
I agree. That's what makes it a current working philosophy.
you won't tell my neighbors what church to attend by wrapping yourself in a flag of official sanction. I'll petition, file suits, but then in extremity, I'll shoot you in the head to stop you.
And if you try to stop one of my Christian, Islamic or Athestic fellow citizens from being *able* to proselytize, I'll shoot back. As I said, there is a prohibition against the state mandating a specific religion at the federal level, but nothing says that citizens cannot discuss their beliefs in public places, be that on a street corner, post office or a bible study group meeting at a school.
Or are you saying that not *all* free speech should be protected, just the kind you like, and not *all* philosophies should be allowed, just the ones you approve of? I was taught religion as a matter of course in both high school and college at three secular schools, and to ignore something that has shaped the history and development of cultures around the world (including ours) is more than asinine, it's willful ignorance.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Would anybody be calling the USPS biased or giving in to corporations if suddenly they started handing out free RedHat cds and avertising their service plan? I don't think so. That would just be considered "advertising" not "creating a dangerous link between corporation and state" as many people have written. *sigh*
As much as your arguments may have sound logical reasoning, it really means nothing to consumers who don't develop. Consumers could care less how much of a pain in the ass it was for developers, they just care what they see. On that front, I think KDE, Gnome, and others offer a lot more power in their interfaces than Windows, and provided a pre-install, would be as easy to use as Windows, except you can't download any old application on the internet and expect it to run. MS seems less concerned about actually improving the product and more about making it different enough for an upgrade, while leveraging their position in the OS market to control other markets (IE, Media-related stuff (WMP, CD burning, simple movie editor)) All this said about developer space issues not making much of a difference, your argument still has a couple of flaws, so I do have some counterpoints:
1) The way drivers work in XFree isn't horrible, it's the amount of work required on behalf of the user that isn't so hot given the current tools. Automated tools to modify the XF86Config and copy files around can make things easier on the end user. But there is good reason why this can't be done as a simple tab on a nice control panel, Windows lets common users wreak all kinds of hell with the system, while Linux distros don't want things to be world writable... The core architecture is fine, it is user-space tools that keep this from working well. Just look at BeOS, loading device drivers was as simple as dragging it to a certain directory. I would argue a User would be more comfortable using a "wizard" interface, even if it doesn't have to do much, over copying a file, it just doesn't have that "customized" feel to it, if you understand me.
I have no idea about 2, probably a valid issue, considering the titles available for Windows vs. Linux, DirectX dominates and will continue to, unless MS loses a lot of market share for some inexplicable reason.
3) Hurd is a piece of crap. That said, Linux has "enough" modularity to provide the benefits that would be seen at the user level. Things like drivers can be loaded as modules with little difficulty. Of course, the problem is that modules are tied to kernel modules, but as nVidia shows, you can make a thin source layer to load a binary-only driver that enables a closed-source driver to run on different kernel revs. Of course , the layer should probably be available in the kernel itself, but kernel developers want open source drivers, something much easier to debug...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Seeing as Microsoft and USPS are two monopolies that excel in crappy service, why would anyone be surprised to see them picking each other's noses?
How much you want to bet that if they don't turn a profit, our taxes will bail them out?
"Piter, too, is dead."
subj says it all.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Apparently Microsoft has promotional displays with free WindowsXP promotional software in U.S. Post Offices.
Wait, don't tell me - these promotional displays for Windows XP are hanging right next those posters the USPS has warning about
[Warning: gratuitous MS bashing ahead. Mature audiences only.]
Given all the latest scares about anthrax spores being distributed via US Mail, I'd say that Windows XP would constitute a similarly receptive medium for distributing viral agents and that such posters are not at all out of place.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
What could be more appropriate than MS's picture next to the others on the Post Office wall. Too bad it doesn't say "Dead or Alive".
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
But this is about taxes. The MS tax.
.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I have no doubts whatsoever on that score. They operate in that wierd area of a legal monopoly (kind of like utility companies before Texas !@#$!@#$ deregulated them). It's one of the few monopolies that I think is a good idea.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
when I need premium service I can pay premium prices. When I just need it to get there sometime this month, FedEx is not practical, and not in any way in competition with so called "first class" mail.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
i am talking about the specific phrase "separation of church and state"
thank you.
About once a month, because the mail delivery person tries to carelessly shove 4 or 5 catalogs (that I haven't even requested) through the mail slot along with a magazine that I'm subscribed to. About half the time the magazine is on the outside of the bundle and is the thing that gets shredded. Complaints get me nowhere.
I didn't say my mail was shredded before delivery, it's shredded DURING delivery.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
No they're not; you on crack, boy? The GLX driver's only available as a binary. Only the NVdriver has the source code available for it, and that's a simple pass-thru driver that hands stuff back and forth to the GLX portion. Look for yourself. Open Source my ass..