Slashdot Mirror
Star Wars Episode II: The Book Review
Hello, Mr. Salvatore! For the folks who want to get the details on the story without downloading the bootleg version, there's always the novelization based on the screen play, adapted by R. A. Salvatore (the same man behind the many D&D books in the fantasy section of the bookstore).
The last time this happened, Terry Brooks was the captain, guiding us through his interpretation of Episode I: The Phantom Menace. It was a good book, filling in the gaps that the movie missed, while telling the story in style. To be honest, I wish we had Mr. Brooks back. It's not that I don't like Mr. Salvatore, but -- well, maybe I don't after reading this book.
It's clear that Salvatore had access to the screen play for the movie, with every move, look, and nuance that was put inside. He also has access to the choreographed scenes, which becomes clear since he feels the need to tell us every single detail of the fights. Thanks to him, I now know that in a fight scene between Obi-Wan and Jango Fett, Obi-Wan "...ducked the blow and did a tight, stationary somersault right under the swinging arm, double-kicking as he came over...", and every other minor detail, blow, kick and jump. A fight scene that probably takes 2 minutes in the movie now takes up 15 pages of text.
It's overkill, and Salvatore does this over and over again. I would say he's wordy, but the definition is too short by at least 30 characters. In another scene, where Anakin goes all Dark Side on us, Salvatore writes it like this (well, not exactly - but it feels that way):
And as the rage raged through Anakin's rage, he raged through his raging rage to rage the rage rage.
I'm not clear here - is Anakin angry? It's a formula that is used over and over again with as much verbage as Salvatore can invent - how much Shmi Skywalker misses her son, or how Padme has chosen professional life over personal life.
You almost want to scream out "We get the point - move on to the story!"
Jedi and Bounty Hunters and Clones, Oh My!
The story itself is predictable sci-fi fiction. We can spot a plot device half a mile away, and in many ways, it emulates Episode I in its setup.
The story involves the attempted assassination of Padme Amidala, who is no longer Queen of Naboo (seems they can only serve 2 terms), but is now Senator of Naboo, fighting to prevent the creation of an army for the Republic to defend it from the Separatists. So the Jedi Council, at the advice of Emperor^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, enlists the help of Obi-Wan Kenobi and his Padawan Apprentice, Anakin Skywalker, to protect the young Senator.
While Obi-Wan takes off to chase after the assassins, Anakin is holed up with Padme all alone on her home planet on Naboo. Of course, nobody else seems to notice that Anakin has been Jonesing for Padme since he was 10. Even though Obi-Wan seems to think that Anakin might get himself into trouble, but is overruled by the Jedi Council, who don't seem to realize that a barely 20-year-old man with raging hormones around Natalie Portman might feel a little tempted.
This soon leads to romantic moments between the younglings, boiled down to this:
Anakin: Padme, I love you, and I'm not even vaguely trying to uphold my vows as a would-be Jedi to never marry. Kind of like a Catholic Priest, without the altar boy scandal. Padme: Anakin, we can't be together. You're a Jedi, and are forbidden to marry. (Even though I think those brown robes are so hot on you.) Anakin: What was that? Padme: Oh, nothing. Let's to romp in the meadow and hold hands even though I say we're not going to fall in love. Anakin: Sure. Can I look longingly at you at times? Padme: If you must. (While I undress you with my eyes.) Anakin: What? Padme: Nothing!Gaps in the Universe
So while Padme and Anakin are making goo-goo eyes at each other, Obi-Wan is discovering the creation of a clone army, an army based on the genes of Jango Fett, the best bounty hunter of the galaxy, who's cloned son, Boba Fett, is being trained by his "father" to be even better.
But then the questions come up. Who would want the creation of a clone army to fight the Separatists, when the Senate is still arguing about creating an army in the first place? What is Count Dooku, the former Jedi who is labeled as "the best kick ass lightsaber duelist in the history of the galaxy", doing at the head of the Separatists - and what is his plan? And how long until Anakin and Padme finally give in to their lusts and make the beast of two backs?
The story, in and of itself, isn't that interesting. But the story does a good job at tying up the lines between Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope and the prequels. For the first time, we meet Owen and Beru, and understand how they fit into the Skywalker family. We see how the future Emperor manipulates the public to put himself as the head of the Republic. That alone is enjoyable as you go "Ah...now that makes sense."
But for the cost of the $26.00 book, you might as well just wait a week and pay $11.00 at the movie theaters for the same information - in much less time.
You can purchase Attack of the Clones from bn.com. Want to see your own review here? Just read the book review guidelines, then use Slashdot's handy submission form.
Please excuse any errors in the above. I have never actually seen Attack of the Clones or The Phantom Menace, as I am over the age of fifteen.
Use these facts for whatever purpose you see fit, especially if it involves irritating the hell out of some Lucasdroid.
-----
Full synopsis (plagiarized from a fanboy, so please forgive the spelling):
Why take the time to read the book when you can just watch the telesync now :)
Always remember this basic rule of writing:
Conciseness is to be preferred over loquacity and verbosity.
09
It's kind of interesting to think about how deeply star wars has slumped in the minds of geeks.
We were all built up and excited about episode 1.
Then we saw that it sucked.
Then the rumors about Leo DiCrapio playing anakin in 2.
Then we saw that it would suck.
Luckily that didn't happen.
but here's episode 2, and we all hear that it sucks.
What I want to know is whether or not Geroge Lucas really thinks that these are quality movies he's making, or if he realizes that they are in fact made to sell the toys.
Just my opinion.
"You worthless post!"
-Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
What I don't like about Star Wars now is everything seems to be based on the story to make sense of something.
The first 3 SW of the old days we're based on a story but the story wasn't everything, as it is now.
Lucas seems to try to make sense out of all this. We can't simply enjoy the show...we're forced to understand the why's, who's when's, etc.
Still...I waited 24 hours outside to see Fantom but liked it kinda, but I won't wait for this one. If I can see the Premiere, I will but someone will go wait for me to buy the tickets.
:)
I was wondering, on what are the movies based? Are there any novels on wich the movies are based? Are there novels for the probably never coming Star Wars Episodes 7, 8 and 9?
None of the Star Wars books come within a hundred parsecs of the Timothy Zahn post trilogy.
He manages to pull off what Lucas can't:
Tell a story in the Star Wars universe that keeps the pace of the movies, but at the same time leaves out the "Yippees!" and fart jokes.
Having read the screenplay and book, you can hardly blame Salvatore for the result.
He wasn't give alot of material to work with.
George Lucas only wants this book to be in digital format? ;)
Hacker Media
I heard a soundbite from Lucas on the radio the other day where he was asked why he thought people didn't like Episode 1.
His response was "the starwars hate was all media hype. the actual public loved it".
Wow. Talk about a man in denial. I have yet to meet anyone who could say more than "yeah, it was good... not great, but okay..." - and those are the rarities. 90% of people I know thought it was a terrible movie. Hell, I had a chance to see it a second time in the theater for free. But I stayed home and took a nap instead.
Yeah there's no point watching a movie other than to "talk shop with fanatics".
I don't know why I ever bother.
Disclaimer: This isn't a troll, I'm just a fucking idiot.
Anakin raged in a cage without his mama kin
Raging rage like a tearing page set the stage
Gauge his rage with a wise mage
You'll see how Anakin can rage man can Anakin
For instance, we have a really bad screenplay, that is acted really poorly for a really bad movie (so they say).
Then, we find a really bad writer (Salvatore).
The book will be really _________. (Fill in the blank).
I've always liked fantasy as much as scifi, and when I have nothing else to read, I'll even tolerate the mediocre stuff. The Tracy Hickman, Marg Weiss D&D books, for instance.
So, I've ran out of all those books, and used book are only 50 cents, right? So I pick up a bunch of Salvatore's books. Bad mistake. His books aren't worth the toilet paper that they could have turned that pulp into.
I think, and don't take this as gospel, Salvatore wrote down the synopsis of all his D&D games that he (aged 9 or so) played with his cocker spaniel puppy because no one else would play with him. Then, stretching all those notes into 400 page long manuscripts, he somehow blackmailed a publisher into turning them into real books. I mean, goddamn, I didn't expect it to be the the Dragonbon Chair or anything like that, but this was absolutely unreadable. It was, and still is, the only good excuse for illiteracy. *BARF* Should have let those memories remain repressed.
How, on fucking earth, did they manage to let him novelize this? They had their pick, even some first rate authors might have wanted to do this. If nothing else, Alan Dean Foster always did a tolerable job of novelizations (though the best, probably was Orson Scott Card's "The Abyss"). The only thing I can figure, he (Salvatore) has photographic evidence of Lucas getting blowjobs from 9 yr old Thai children in return for handing over USA Top Secret military documents to a chinese agent (both on the same pic).
Yes, he is that bad.
"But for the cost of the $26.00 book, you might as well just wait a week and pay $11.00 at the movie theaters for the same information - in much less time."
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not Everybody reads an entire novell in a couple of hours.
BTW, have you read any of Salvatore's books? I have. Don't base a book review on a movie even if that book is based on the Movie.
Star Wars has alot to make up for. The last 2 movies were "Muppets in Space" Hopefully Lucas will learn before it is too late that the move is made AT THE SCRIPT! and not with the tech effects.
Awww, man. You guys just posted a spoiler about how Anakin was going to go all dark-side on us without even a warning! :(
Next thing I know, you're going to be telling us that you saw the bootlegged version and that Amidala gets killed, Jar Jar become Lando, the Millenium falcon is built, and the Empire attacks Earth, etc.. I mean, I know that all of those happen in the movie from watching the bootlegged version, but I wish you had put a spoiler warning just in case.
qslack.com
if you wanna spoil the movie, might as well just watch the bootleg version. forget reading. anywho, i give the movie a thumbs up
I'm not sure if Mr. Salvatore was entirely faithful to the movie. At least, none of the previews I've seen show Anakin fighting with two curved lightsabers.
"You're just scared like a little white pussy. I'll fuck you till you love me, you faggot!"
First of all Dooku left the Jedi Order after the Battle of Naboo. He left because he felt the Jedi betrayed themselves by serving the corrupt republic.
Dooku joined the separatists, because, in a nutshell, the Republic is dead. The bureaucrats rule, not the voters. So Dooku wants to secede from the Republic and create the Confederacy of Indepnedent Systems.
Here's where Darth Sidious comes in: He (as Palpatine) creates the clone army to counter the Separatists' droid army (secretly), and later, to eliminate the Jedi. Also, the separatists are kind of a conglomeration of guilds and unions like the Trade Federation, Techno Union, and others.
Finally, Dooku is described as a fencer, and he uses a lightsaber with a curved handle. And he can use Sith lightning. And yes, I bought the book on April 23.
One of the problems I am seeing is that Lucas is attempting to back-reference *everything* in Episodes 4-6 and a few other things that cropped up in the Star Wars Universe.
So C3P0 and R2D2 come about when, in truth, there is no need for them. Fett's story is (re)created and explained (why not just use the story that was originally given and leave it out of the movies?), &c, &c.
He would likely have more luck if he wouldn't attempt to throw in everything for everyone and just try to write a story.
I will reserve judgment on this movie until I see it, however, some of the things that Lucas has been doing with the story in an effort to make it widely appeal are just frustrating.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I haven't been this excited about a novelization since I read the Stargate book for a class. Seriously though in that class, even the jocks were complaining about the literary validity of the book. When will the madness stop?
Just before Mr. Salvatore broke big, he was a guest at a convention I was running (ConFusion in Massachusetts) and he is a nice guy and writes passable enough novels but let's give him a break. Look at the material he has to work with. I'm not surprised it's bad.
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
With the caveat that I haven't seen EpII yet, I think that it comes down to a simple fact: Lucas is too excited about using digital toys to produce a vision than he is about the actual storyline and character development. You had to admit, Episode I - and let's use this as a reference point - looked impressive, visually. The CGI was rendered in great detail - even Jar Jar Bink's movements seemed both organic and fluid. The problem is that he spent too much time with A) the Anakin subplot - and that's what it should have been - a subplot, B) Jar Jar Binks's antics. Essentially, he confused the comic relief with the main story. Now, say what you want about Lucas, but this is not Lucas. Star Wars (I will never call it Episode 4) had humor in it, but it was mostly from character *interaction* and exploitation of circumstance. You have the rough mercenary Han Solo dealing with the strong and politically motivated Leia... with each one in a contest to become the alpha male. You also have the exchanges between Threepio and Artoo, (and did anyone notice that it's Artoo, the one that communicated in blips and beeps, who plays the straightman in the comic venture?) You also have humor of circumstance - "I think i just blasted it." Even so, "Star Wars" characters can be very serious when the plot calls for it. This is where Lucas should have been focusing humor. Instead, he misapplies it - Jar Jar & Anakin, the pod racer announcer, etc. Instead, what does he do well. Well, from the trailers and the origional, I think he's doing the fight scenes well, and I think he's also showing the setting. Unfortunately, these aren't Lucas's hallmarks - they're the hallmarks of, perhaps Jackie Chan and Speilberg directly. Then again, maybe he *has* to emulate other directors. Remember, these plots weren't just developed to suit the fans - they were written before "Star Wars" was released. Let's face facts, Lucas developed the middle trilogy first because he thought it would be the best of the 3... No matter what, then, we should expect the plot of the prequels to be of an inferior quality. Lucas can only try to make this deficiency up by promising eye candy - perhaps why he is so adamant about having the digital projectors installed. That said, I'm sure that those who go to see Episode II for the lightsaber fights and the stunning CGI planet-scapes will enjoy it. But for those looking for plot, it's time to swallow back that taste of bile in your throat once again. Brian.
For the same plot information even quicker, simply read the Children's Movie Storybook. :)
Thanks Lucas for making spoilers readily available before the film is even released.
-Evan
Cheaper - $6.00 - covered the story without dragging on - in the "annie goes dark side" the schoolastic version just did a cut scene - but you knew what happened. After your reveiw I'm glad I didnt get the hardback.
Also - another poster mentioned zahn - salute! Zahn's triologies were awsome - if anyone has not read them and wants great star wars reading - get them. They had some of the clone war stuff in them - and i expected some of it to be in the book, like using the flying blue thingies as shields against the Jedi force, but that isn't in the book - maybe in the movie? or the next movie for the real clone war?
the beast of two backs
that was my favorite part of othello.
-- john
By reading the book based on the movie you don't have to deal with all the horrible acting of the new movie, and besides with all of the trailers it was easy visualize everything anyway.
Did anyone else notice that not a single good thing comes out of this book? It almost would make an excellent addition to the villains dragonlance series.
I read the Episode 1 book the second it came out, I now regret it. I am absolutely sure that if i hadnt have read the book, i would have liked the on screen movie a lot more.
the problem is, is that there was a lot missing in the movie that was in the book.
-another pod race
-more character developement
-better fight scenes
plus, without the movie, there is no difference between the other books (shadows of the empire for example) and this one.
i noticed that this one came out a week or two later than the other one did, tatical move perhaps?
forget it.
Well, I'm a 20-year-old man with raging hormones and *I* certainly don't feel tempted at all.
OTOH, maybe it's because, unlike Anakin Skywalker, I am German and I definitely don't have the hots for someone born in Jerusalem, Israel.
Forget not that R.A. Salvatore killed Chewbecca in his wonderful novella "Vector Prime".
Any further words from a man who killed such a harmless creature such as Chewie must be regarded as pure folly and discarded thereafter.
I dont like my theater, I want to put it out of business. On the other hand, for every thousand things LucasArts does, one or two of them is really great, so best to have another few bucks in the hands of lucas, rather than in the hands of my crappy movie theater. DIE theater!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Greetings,
A few posters in this thread complained that Lucas may be trying to fill too much backstory in the current Star Wars I-III movies, that the continuity isn't there, or that there is too much detail. To all of you, I would advise you to read the novel "Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker", by George Lucas, written in the 1970's. A new edition was printed in the 1990's, tied with the re-release of the movies.
A lot of the backstory that Lucas refers to today in the movies is explained in a one page prologue "written by Senator Leia Organa" of Alderaan. The Trade Federation, Emperor Palpatine, the Clone Wars, Skywalkers' abilities as pilots running in the family, the relationship between Luke Skywalker and Biggs (who is jarring in the movie because they greet like old friends in Yavin-4 but viewers don't know *why*), etc. are all mentioned in that book.
The Star Wars movie novelizations of the first trilogy were better written, and in the case of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back they add significant backstory that explains why some things happen the way they do in the movie. So far The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones seem to adhere to that chronology.
There are also a few glaring discrepancies that are later kludged to fix (i.e. like Darth Vader being Luke's father), but they are forgivable in the context of the whole saga. One of the most important ones is that in Star Wars, Tatooine is an unimportant planet in the outer rim of the galaxy, yet it's in every movie except for TESB. Lots of things going on in that little, unimportant planet. Finally, there are a few screenplay drafts (for the original Star Wars movie) written by Lucas that you can find on the 'Net, that also provide interesting backstory.
I mention this because a lot of people don't realize that what Mr. Lucas has been saying all along, that he had the underpinnings of the story worked out long ago, is probably true. Read the book, and then make judgement.
My copy of "Star Wars" is in Spanish (the Editorial Argos Vergara Edition, "La Guerra de las Galaxias" of 1977-78) and I left it in my native country, so I'm quoting by memory here. I read it at least 30 times when I was 11 or so, and I remember the prologue quite well because it didn't say the same things as the yellow scroll at the beginning of the movie. I tried Google-ing for a reference to this prologue but couldn't find one. Can someone transcribe it or post a link?
(Also, there was a Star Wars book that chronicled the first duel between Vader and Skywalker published in 1978 or 1979 titled The Mind's Eye, by Alan Dean Foster. I have a copy back home, but I've never seen it in the US. That story takes place at some point between Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back; it explored some interesting backstory issues but didn't hint of Vader being Skywalker's father.)
As far as novelizations from the movies (or from the screenplays), Star Wars by George Lucas and The Empire Strikes Back (I don't remember the author) were probably the best. The Mind's Eye by A. D. Foster was excellent, and it made me wonder if it had been a screen treatment at some point. The novelization of Return of the Jedi *sucked*, and I never bothered to read more than one the books not based on the movies because they don't capture the essence of the story the way Lucas' stories/movies do.
Cheers!
Ehttp://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
Ho
Mo
Emperor^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
Do we have any real degree of certainty that Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, Emperor Palpatine, and Darth Sidious are the same person . . . ?
Everything that follows is nothing more that a wild ass guess on my part.
My guess is that Sidious cloned himself (with modifications to make the clone a sniveling weakling) and manipulated him into the big chair and is going to disappear him in EP3: The Chickens Come Home to Roost (tCCHtR).
I mean, come on. No matter how "difficult to see, the dark side is" the amount of time he spends around Jedi in EP1 and 2 would have to cause a tremor or two if Sidious and Palpatine were one and the same.
Oh, and there is no immaculate conception . . . Anikin is a clone that was planted (and implanted) by . . . someone. I'll go out on a limb and guess that it was Sidious.
But my SWAGs have been wrong in the past. I was sure that Kitster was going to end up Boba Fett.
Finally, if all you have to say is along the lines "Lucas is a tool, Jar-Jar sucks, Lucas is out of touch with his fans, he just wants to sell lunch boxes and play with digital toys, etc" why don't you check the "Star Wars Prequels" box on your homepage preferences? I'm glad you have an opinion, but you aren't adding anything to the discussion. It is trollish, and amounts to crapfloding at this point.
-Peter
Salvatore wrote the Dark Elf series of books in D&D's Forgotten Realms setting. I believe there are over three trilogies by now. When I was 13 years old, I found them actually quite good... that's probably because it was his target audience.
But then I recently picked up one of the latest Dark Elf books... ech. I couldn't get into it. The writing was just too bad. I guess this is what age does to you. The Star Wars books really aren't targetted at intelligent late-20 or 30-somethings. They're for teens who like D&D and Dragonlance (and adults who never grew out of it).
One thing I will give kudos to Salvatore for: he has a talent for describing fight scenes. I think the reviewer found this annoying, but that aspect of his books has traditionally been their saving grace: if you want to read a book of detailed fight scenes with a bit of plot in-between, pick up a Salvatore book. Remember my "13 year old" audience theory -- flowery writing and complex plots aren't necessarily cool to most. Lots of fights are. Not too many of my friends liked Tolkien in high school, but there sure were a lot of Dragonlance fans.
No doubt for a series like Star Wars, this probably looked like a good choice on paper.
-Stu
One day when browsing the newstand at the grocery story I came across a book called "A Bridge Too Far". But it was not the same book which Cornelius Ryan had written; in fact it was written by a completely different author. There on the cover under the title was a statement saying that this book was based on the movie "A BRIDGE TOO FAR". So there you have it: book -> movie -> book.
Tell me something, if you can get your primitive hind-brain to function on
the level of such coherent thought: why is it Bad and Wrong for the Hitler
Crew to spew their prejudicial invectives against blacks and Jews, but
it's perfectly peachy for you drooling mouthbreathers to spout -your-
prejudicial invectives against gays?
Of course I don't support Hitler Crew's infantile neo-Nazi
nonsense. But I am equally disgusted by the fools who react to racism
with homophobia and somehow think they're morally superior because of it.
Hope this helps!
The book you are referring to by Alan Dean Foster is known as "Splinter of the Mind's Eye", and is readily available in the US.
3 9/ qid=1021225579/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_67_1/102-9418279-38 74538
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/03453202
6.99 from amazon.
Cheap!
But seriously, who the heck would want to read the book before the movie? Especially since the book was based on the movie (rather than the other way around)... its just plain plot spoilage. I guess you could make the argument that the book is faster to download than the movie (assuming pirated copies of both), but thats about it.
The movie looks to be decent. Thus, I will wait until it comes out to see it. I will not read a cheesy version of the script, written so it looks like a novel (but is really just the script. I mean, its kind of obvious when a "book" includes choreography...)
But this seems like a brilliant way to make money for Lucas. All he had to do was give the script for the movie to some schmoe author and say "Remove the stage directions, and make it look like a novel." No work, and I am sure they'll get some decent royalties from people buying the book to get a preview of the movie.
Dooku and Palpatine are in cahoots. They are the two Sith Lords.
Its all a big set-up so that Palpatine(Sidious), whos is now Supreme Chancellor, can declare martial law, wield emergency power over the Republic and hold it for as long as the "imaginary" Republic-Seperatist War lasts.
As far as Salvatores description of the fight scenes, some of us enjoy them. My girlfriend bought me this book for my birhtday, and having been a previous fan of Salvatores work the first thing I thought was 'I cant wait to see how he writes the sabre battles.' He did the same thing throughout the Dark Elf trilogy, and it has certainly sold well.
Whaat? Now hold on here folks. What really did happen with Boba Fett? My readings up to now indicate that he was a deposed journeyman protectorate that got kicked out for he turned in one of his clients due to the bounty that was on his/hers/its head. But nooooo.. Now ole George has him as a clone now.. Hooboy, i'll bet the bookwriters are ripping their hair out trying to get this sorted out on WHY he went off the beaten path that was already laid in front of him on Boba's past... Help me clear some of this air up, hey?
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
As I watched (reviewing ;^) the bootleg version of the movie this morning all I could think of was "How can this movie not get an R rating?"
/.ers out there with kids (or those thinking of taking young children to the movie) beware!
* Beheadings
* Arms cut off sans blood
* Monsters eating 'people'
* A village massacre (implied women/children too)
* Soldiers/Jedi knights killed various ways
* A boy holding his "father's" head!
Personally, this movie was an amalgamation of Braveheart, Gladiator, Jurassic Park, 5th Element, all previous Star Wars movies, and Lord of the Rings. Needless to say I was extremely disappointed and glad I didn't waste my money.
See the movie before taking the kids and you'll see what I mean. Lucas must have tremendous power in Hollywood with his 1 trick pony.
Well the theater we have in town (College Station, Texas) is still $6.50 for a ticket. But I also managed to snag the book for half price at our local Hastings :) I thought it was worth it, and a decent read overall, although the poster is absolutely correct on the overkill and (at times) underkill.
"...sci-fi fiction..."
Is this like the rule where any post correcting anothers grammer or spelling, invariably contains an obvious error in grammer or spelling?
If you are going to critic another persons writing for being full of redundant descriptive passages shouldn't you be extra careful to not make the same mistake?
Yawn ...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I recall reading this fine peice of print (Back to the Future 2) for a book report in grade school. I'm shocked to see that it never made the NY times best seller list.
Hopefully Star Wars Episode 2 will do better. Afterall, we all know books made about movies are typically some of the best reads... And books made about TV shows are usually even better!
I imagine Star Wars Episode 2 (the book) will probably probably inspire a lot of grade school children to put forth that extra effort come book report time. It books like this that really boost comprehension and teach kids the joy of reading.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
the relationship between Luke Skywalker and Biggs (who is jarring in the movie because they greet like old friends in Yavin-4 but viewers don't know *why*)
That was in the movie. It was in the first theater run of Star Wars. But the scene was cut out in additional runs, TV, VHS, DVD and the new digitally destroyed version.
It was the first scene where we saw Luke. He was saying goodbye to Biggs, who was going off to join the rebellion.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
its not history, it's a f*cking STORY - and not a great one either.
This will probably get flagged as offtopic, but here goes anyway:
If you do want some really excellent fight scenes in a novel, (and no, I don't consider "In a blinding flash of steel it was over" to be a good fight), then you should check out Joel Rosenberg's Guardian's of the Flame series.
The series list is as follows:
The Sleeping Dragon
The Sword and the Chain
The Silver Crown
The Heir Apparent
The Warrior Lives
The Road to Ehvenor
The Road Home
Not Exactly the Three Musketeers
I've read through The Road to Ehvenor and felt that some of the strength of the novels had petered out around that point (Ehvenor was still good, just in a different way), but the first five books are phenomenal. The story is slick, the magic is interesting, the world and characters's grow over time and it definitely has a depth of humanity, but with all that, I think it was the fight's that did it for me.
Anyway, if you have the money and the time, give them a chance, it's a wothwhile read.
his Mother. Of course I thought Jedi would have to do with the accidental death of her and he'd get pissed off at them, but this works as well.
I swear, one day my head is going to explode from the cognitive dissonance of it all...
We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
The scene with Biggs and Wormy? "Did a young noise just blast through here?" I don't recall that from the movie, and I saw it pretty much the day it came out. I do recall it from the screenplay and comic book, though, along with the original non-fat Jabba.
Click here or here.
Read this. Poor Lucas 2 stars
b er t10.html
http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-e
Strict continuity?
Vader doesn't recognize R2 and 3PO even though the former is his beloved's favorite droid and he BUILT the latter--even able to recognize him with the shielding in place although it was his mother that put it there!?! Memory loss?
Obviously, these two droids are destined to stay with Amidala and Vader doesn't recognize the significance that they ALSO follow Leia around!?! Memory loss?
Uncle Owen grew up with 3PO and doesn't recognize him after Luke repairs him!?! Memory loss?
3PO doesn't seem to recognize Tattoine or Uncle Owen!?! Memory loss?
Obi-wan doesn't recognize either droids even though he spent a lot of time with them!?! Memory loss?
AOTC is a continuity NIGHTMARE! I could see Lucasfilms having a difficult time resolving conflicts with third-party stories that weren't crafted by Lucas himself but I/II/IV/V/VI are!
Actually, those scenes were filmed, but never, never, were in any theater run. This is a common folk tale.
Also, the prologue to Star Wars, The First Saga of The Journal of The Whills, wasn't written by Leia Organa. She simply has a quote attached at the end.
Another galaxy, another time. The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that... it was the Republic.
Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, then appear those evil ones who have greed to match.
So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside.
Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.
Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.
Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.
But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves opposed to the New Order they began the great battle to restore the Old Republic.
From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples...
From the First Saga Journal of the WhiIls
If you substituted Salvatore with Douglas Niles. The Icewind Dale trilogy was a fun read when I first picked it up (I was ten). Dark Elf trilogy was a fun action packed read, it wasn't Ender's Game or LOTR but I wouldn't say it was toilet paper. To me Salavtore's book are comic books without pictures, meant to be fun with lot's of action. Not Tolkien reincarnate.
Now Douglas Nile's stuff on the otherhand. For those who don't know he was or still is a author who wrote Forgotten Realms novels for TSR back in the day. I started to read the Moonshae Trilogy and I will tell you that I have literaly used the first book as TP. I was camping at the time, but somehow I thought it was appropriate.
>
# Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic.
# Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.
# Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
# Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
# Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)
I don't know why publishers let this man write books, much less books that are as important as this one. The man cannot write a coherent sentece to save his life. And you'd think, given his previous Star Wars track record (the way he killed off Chewbacca was insipid and insulting), Lucasfilm would have released the hounds on him rather than asking him to write the Episode II novelization.
If you have ever read some of his books, you would know that Salvatore specializes in fight scenes. Since the story has quite a weak plot (and changing the story would be highly frowned upon) I'm unsure how else he could make this story over 60-70 pages.
So what entity is refered to when Lucas talks of the Phantom Menace? The Dark Side? Perhaps there is some yet unrevealed entity influencing the entire Star Wars universe subtly from the shadows. The Jedi and the Sith are merely pawns in a multidimensional struggle between the Yin and Yang of The Force. The Jedi and Sith are nothing more than channelers for the manifestations of these 2 warring continui. (plural of continuum?)
I agree with earlier posters. The magic is gone with the Star Wars series. EP1's visual polish only helped to further distance it from Ep4-6's feel. I like the older, grainier look of the original trilogy. It presented a harsh, gritty reality of dirty spaceports and slimy aliens and people struggling to get overcome ridiculous odds. What's Episode 1? Gloss and polish and render farm fmv. Those guys worked their asses off to make 4-6 using PHYSICAL models of everything! What's Episode 1? An air-conditioned office full of dweebs trying to get Jar-Jar's skin to be sufficiently flappy.
It'll be nice if the new movie recaptures some of the heart of 4-6, but I think the odds are not favorable. End Rant.
This novel was, IIRC, ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster, but published under Lucas' name. While it does provide more back-story than the movies, it also has been contradicted by some of the later additions to the saga.
Slighlty OT: My personal favorite line in the novel is the part where Obi-Wan refers to being "sitting ducks", and Luke asks "What's a duck?". So incongruous with the way the rest of the story was written, but all the more amusing because of that :-)
who cares...really...who cares...
george is going to keep making films...
you are all going to keep complaining...
he is going to make millions...
you are not...
what is your point? all of you...
i like star wars because it's dumb, silly, change-the-rules-as-you-go, FUN. do you know what that means? do any of you? how about, 'so it might suck...i'll go see it'. the thing i love about this site is you slash-dipshits stripping away as much of the joy from something as you possibly can....
analyze it all you want boys and girls...talk about how it has nothing to do with the books all you want. because, LUCASFILM, does not give a rats ass what you think or how they should make their movies. kapeesh?
here's some good logic...
if you think the first one sucked, then i can almost 100% guarantee that you're not going to like the second one. and you'll still complain. then DON'T GO SEE EP II.
if you like star wars because of the characters, ships, droids, and PURE CHILDISH FUN, then go see it and shut up.
geezus heysoos marimba - LOTSA smart people come here...but you seriously LACK imagination.
that is all...
In the beginning (episodes 4-6), Star Wars was just a simple story about a boy, a princess, a privateer, a wookie, a sith lord, etc. Now it has evolved into a complicated mess which everyone is over analyzing to death.
Here are my predictions for episode 2:
disclaimer: I list myself as a moderate fan who has seen episode 4,5,6 a gizzilan times on TV 4,5,6 special edition once, christmas special once, and episode 1 twice.
There will be tons of boring dialog consiting of wooden actors and tons of soul-less computer generated aliens used to replicate the puppet mastery of 70s.
The love between the princess and anakin will be completely fabricated and unrealistic. Probably using the tired forbidden love motif we have all seen before.
Scenes with Jarjar will be minimized (obvious point) given the negative feedback from episode I.
There will be another unbelievable car chase scene to prove that anakin is a greatest starfighter pilot ever. ho-hum.
There will be another intense lightsaber duel with a gimmic like the dual bladed light saber seen in episode one.
We will learn more about yoda demistifing the character making him/her/it less interesting IMHO.
Will do well at the box office. Which is George Lucas' primary goal anyway.
Will leave most hardcore fans secretly disappointed but unphased since they will see episode 3.
Most moderate fans will force themselves to enjoy the film just becasue it is Star Wars.
Playa haters will hate it no matter how good or bad it is just because it is popular.
Clearly it's something that Lucas owes the fan community after that travesty of an episode 1. Which one is portrayed in the book?
And the brethren went away edified.
On the droids, while the driod's names and the fact that the droids don't remember the people is rather implausable, I would guess that they are more ubiquitous than we imagine, more like cars. While you certainly remember all the makes and models of cars you have owned, unless it had a very unique dent pattern or model (if its a ferrari you are much more likely to see only a few in your life), I challenge you to recognise your exact car in 40 years.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Actually this is quite common, and has led to the blockbuster model that is so popular to movies these days. Studio's get a very high percentage of the take in the first week, and it drops down in following weeks. I had heard that first week cuts were in tne 80-90% range, but after the fourth week it is well below 50%. If anyone knows please let me know. Movies like Titanic and LotR are very popular with theatre owners becuase they get a lot more of the take. Movies like Jurassic park are better for the studios.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Gilead,
I politely disagree with this view. The original Star Wars book reads still like a screenplay novelization. I wish A. D. Foster had a hand at it! The writing is much more lyric in The Mind's Eye than anything Lucas wrote. The brittle dialog in the book has Lucas' fingerprints all over it. Can you confirm the Foster rumour? I would be curious to discover Foster's take on the whole thing.
Also: A. D. Foster's adaptation of Alien rocked.
Cheers!
E
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
I've read several of R.A. Salvatore's books and I must say that this review was overly critical of him as an author. If you read any of his books you will know that Salvatore LOVES to write fight scenes, and he does them well. The content of the story wasn't Salvatore's to begin with, it was based off the screenplay (same with episode 1), so to say that Salvatore can't write a book, based on this review is ignorant.
/. this review was horrible.
How about a point and counterpoint next time
... doesn't actually fit into the universe established by the movies. The aliens, the technology, the relationship between Leia and Luke, the presence of Darth Vader WITHOUT billions of stormtroopers... none of it matches. I thought it was rather odd even at the time I read it (1980 or so, before TESB released).
I think that it's unique in this respect; later "Star Wars" novels seem to be carefully tucked into some sort of master plan.
Since I personally saw some of the scenes referred to at the opening of Star Wars at the Old Mill Six theatres in Palo Alto, I know that they are not pure folk tale. I don't know what print they had, but in that theater the first scene of the movie started on Tatooine with Luke looking through electronic binoculars at space, and then speeding into Tashi station to tell his friends (who were unenthusiastic).
The NPR playhouse version adds quite a bit more backstory describing why the ships were there in the first place, and adding extra scenes with Biggs and a speeder canyon race.
None of those were present in the version I saw, but I did see them tease Luke about Biggs, and there were several other changes throughout the movie including changes to the holoprojector images, and one scene that was cut from the first fight and added to the millenium falcon fight.
LibBT: BitTorrent for C - small - fast - clean (Now Versio
There will be tons of boring dialog consiting of wooden actors and tons of soul-less computer generated aliens used to replicate the puppet mastery of 70s.
;-)
:-)
The love between the princess and anakin will be completely fabricated and unrealistic. Probably using the tired forbidden love motif we have all seen before.
Scenes with Jarjar will be minimized (obvious point) given the negative feedback from episode I.
There will be another unbelievable car chase scene to prove that anakin is a greatest starfighter pilot ever. ho-hum.
There will be another intense lightsaber duel with a gimmic like the dual bladed light saber seen in episode one.
We will learn more about yoda demistifing the character making him/her/it less interesting IMHO.
Why bother to post this when you've obviously downloaded the movie on VCD already?
Yes, every one of these is absolutely true. Not to mention a lot of inside jokes, namely, at least 3 hands being cut off, and a "i've got a bad feeling about this" which will cause one mighty cheering from the audience.
However, you left out that there's also a goodly chunk of plot to make you go "oohhhh.. now I get it" and a couple of reversals in the plot to leave you wondering how ep3 will tie it together. I've got some ideas on how it'll play out, namely that there's going to have to be one mighty betrayal other than Anakin becoming James Earl Jones, and that all the Jedi are going to get totally blindsided by it to the extent that the vast majority of them get the quick trip to the other side...
All in all, it's worth watching. But yeah, you get complainers no matter what you do. At least JarJar only talks three times and those are mercifully short.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I love the star wars books. Except the books
written around the movies. They suck because
they are only meant to tie together events
rather than be the source of the events in the
first place. Any of the other books would make
an interesting base for movies. Books just
for movies apparently don't work at all. They
are soul-less plot for plot's sake wastes of
time.
Nope, I definitely recall that scene. It's not a folk tale. Or at least, if it's a folk tale, it's one that happens to be true.
I'm not telling you about a friend of a friend whose great aunt says she saw it, I'm telling you first hand.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
continui. (plural of continuum?)
It's my (limited) understanding of Latin that when making a word plural:
Thus:
But:
So, I would expect the plural of "continuum" to be "continua".
*Thank you, Futurama
**Thank you, Isaac Asimov
The title of the Alan Dean Foster book you're refering to was "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" (at least in the states) In retrospect it's a bit disturbing, as it explores potential romance between Luke and Leia (who we didn"t know at the time were brother and sister) I'll allow that Foster (who previously had written excellent novellizations of the Star Trek animated series) was also unaware.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
I remember that scene in the Marvel Comics adaptation, FWIW.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
With all the fluff intended to fill pages, it seems this book must have been meant to be read while waiting in line for the movie. When the reviewer suggests we "wait a week" for the movie, he's not kidding!
There's a paragraph in the book where Obi-Wan says the time Luke will spend alone with Padme is one of his trials, before he graduates to become a Jedi, and he hopes Luke realizes this.
The explosive topic of war crimes perpetrated by people we regard as heroes, and the complexity of our response if we know them well was rather deflty handled in the book.
The book has lots of filler, but that's what one expects from a sci-fi book. It's a quick read though, large type and skimmable. I thought the love-story between Luke and Padme was actually developed rather well in the novel. There's nothing surprising about it, but practically every love-story is hackneyed because the genre is so popular with readers and writers.
I'd read the novelisation of episode I before seeing the movie, since I knew there'd be a large cast of characters and I wanted to have some background. The same argument doesn't hold for episode II as much.
What I would say is that the book, and the plot make clear what we can expect in episode III. The clone army gets hijacked, there's a lot of heartache as the twins are placed on different planets and Luke is kept ignorant of them. It's clear what causes Luke to turn to the dark side as well. His mother's torture, his guilt for abandoning her, the massacre he perpetrates, and possibly his rejection by the jedi order once he marries Padme. This also gives a lot more complexity to the prophecy "the one who will bring balance to the force".
A couple of things that the book made me think about were political:
I think the book gives much more context to these views. I'm sort of interested now in what Lucas' motivation for the moral tales in the series was. What sort of response did he have to Vietnam, LBJ, Kennedy, Korea? Certainly, there are clear parallels between Luke's destruction of the Tusken village and incidents in Vietnam.
I actually think the issue of social responsibility versus individual desires is illuminated by the book. Perhaps it's because I'm visiting Singapore, but the Naboo and the Jedi don't seem all that different. It is a relevant topic, even if we only look at how people in demanding jobs manage work/life conflictss.
But we can't take all of this too seriously. It is a space opera after all, its meant to be melodramatic, have great fight scenes, plot twists, surprises, and all the other good stuff that makes for an engaging tale.
There are some interesting twists that I can see within the first 3 episodes. The Star Wars universe doesn't seem as black and white as it did in 4-6.
I don't think the book is a bad read. I wasn't expecting any surprises in the movie, we know the outline of the plot already. I do think I'll enjoy seeing the movie more than I would have otherwise.
-- Equity lord of the Trill Consortium
The book by Alan Dean Foster is titled "Splinter of
the Mind's Eye." If you can't find it at your local used bookstore, there are currently 18 copies for sale on ebay.
:q!
can confirm :
Acting IS wooden
Yoda Kicks Ass
Acting IS wooden
Screw you all! I'm off to the pub
If you think Salvatore's combat descriptions are wordy, I agree with you, but if they chose him for this task it is likely because they *wanted* the descriptions to be indepth and wordy. You couldn't have believed that they would be anything else after reading the work he did on the Dark Elf chronicles and assorted Drizzt Do'Urden stuff.
This sounds good to me because I especially liked the Dark Elf trilogy nearly entirely due to the fact that the fight scenes were so visceral and technically perfect, even though you never get to actually see them, he writes them how they really are.
Then again if you like star wars for.. all the sci fi stuff, rather than the pseudo kendo lightsaber shenanigans I can see how you'd be feeling a bit let down.
To each their own.
I don't think that AOTC is really dealing with the Clone Wars. It deals more with, the VERY beginning of the Clone Wars (which I am assuming is going to be a war between the Republic and the Sepratists)
I REALLY liked the return of the Imperial theme in AOTC, when all the clones are marching around like stormtroppers...sent chills down my spine hearing that music again.
FWIW, "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" is completely non-Canonical. In it, Luke kills Vader. Duh. SotME is what Alan Dean Foster would have written, had Lucas asked him to write a sequel to Star Wars. Which he didn't. But that didn't stop Foster from writing it and getting it published. Mind you, I like Foster--"With Friends Like These" is my favorite short story collection, bar none, and "...Who Needs Enemies?" is also somewhere in the top 10. But Foster should have stayed butted out of someone else's story. The error is greater because of Foster's demonstrated ability to create convincing worlds of his own--he didn't NEED to piggyback.
Having seen both the book and the movie, the book was better. While the book was a bit wordy some of the details that were left out of the movie should not have been left out.
That's exactly why I'm not going to see episode II unless somebody else pays. You know it's going to be crap, I know it's going to be crap, we all know it's going to be crap. I don't pay good money for crap. Not now, not ever.
I'll also allow that Luke and Leia was also unaware of this fact.
Yes, it would be disturbing but readily possible.
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Try getting those for a good read!
I don't have anything concrete but you can point to the fact that Foster has written a lot of science fiction novelizations: Outland, Alien, Aliens, The Last Starfighter, The Black Hole.
/enclyclopedia of Science Fiction author bios I have browsed through. It seems that Foster is also the semi- or uncredited author of the Star Trek: Motion Picture and Close Encounters novelizations as well.
Also, I know that I read about Foster's involvement in the Star Wars novelization being a public secret in at least one or two compendia
The most damning evidence that I have read is from Foster's work itself. In one or two places in the Star Wars novel computers are reffered to by the goofy abbrevition "'puter". I have only seen this shortening in one other place: in one of Foster's Humanx or one of his other original novels. Thin, I know, but the goofiness of it is so jarring that I can't believe it is emulation by another author who thought it "clever". Give me a few hours and I can find the books and page references.
Got a better feel for the story line and characters from their sparse tech-oriented pics for Episode II - not the one that has cutouts of ships and droids, but the one that shows all the characters and their cultural and tech artifacts.
It was only $10.99 at CostCo (caveat - I own stock in that store).
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
you can DL that movie right now on many of the file sharing networks, such as Direct Connect (best shot) gneutella, edonkey2000, even kazaa..... wait a week to see a movie u can see tomorrow :) hey, Im still gonna go see it at the theater and all, even though I already have it. The centropy screener is really good quality too, almost DVD like even :). Only one thing stands in your way.....
got broadband?
James Earl Jone's was only the voice. Some other really tall dude played the body... he wasn't even credited in Ep4.
00101010
"Anyone who reads a novelization of a screenplay deserves professional help, not our pity."
You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
Splinter of the Mind's Eye, actually.
Not bad, takes place before anyone outside of Lucas himself knew that Vader was Luke's father, so Mr. Foster probably wasn't told
Uh, no, Luke does _not_ kill Vader in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye". He _defeats_ Vader in a battle, thanks mainly to a force-channelling crystal he manages to find (the aforementioned "splinter"), but Vader escapes. Read the book again :)
-- "I believe the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully." - George W. Bush, 29 September 2000
There will be tons of boring dialog consiting of wooden actors and tons of soul-less computer generated aliens used to replicate the puppet mastery of 70s.
;)) had a brief exchange which seemed wooden. Past that the movie was so good I didn't notice any more bad dialog.
No. The first bit with the Amidala landing and explosion (which is 10 seconds into the movie; don't worry
The love between the princess and anakin will be completely fabricated and unrealistic. Probably using the tired forbidden love motif we have all seen before.
Not exactly. It's a bit rough at first, but it becomes believable. And it's a subplot, not some sort of stupid thing shoved in your face (Anakin's pod race in #1).
Jar-Jar's role is much less lighthearted here.
There will be another unbelievable car chase scene to prove that anakin is a greatest starfighter pilot ever. ho-hum.
There is a cool-looking scene where there is a car chase. It's a few minutes -- not too long, not too short. And it's not bad.
There will be another intense lightsaber duel with a gimmic like the dual bladed light saber seen in episode one.
Actually, no. While Lucas does do the "this is here in the movie because I can do this" thing like he did in 1 (making a pod race, jar jar, battle scene, and sabre scene being the 4 corner stones of a 1hr plot), it's not too gimmicky. He's learning to not stretch it. It's not perfect, but it's not grating.
We will learn more about yoda demistifing the character making him/her/it less interesting IMHO.
Nope. Yoda's still Yoda. The digital version of him looks fine. Fluid like Jar-Jar. I'm not going to spoil anything about it.
Will leave most hardcore fans secretly disappointed but unphased since they will see episode 3.
If a hardcore fan is disapointed, I'll be surprised. I'm not a Star Wars fan, but I know what I don't hate. And I didn't hate ep 2 -- I enjoyed it.
If you're so set on forming an opinion before it's opened in theatres, go get the VCD. Or come to my house and you can watch it on my setup (I'll even lend you the VCDs if you want).
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Actually I have not watched the movie yet. The reviews spoil everything. ;>